Northern Ireland Assembly, 15 October 2001
30 contributions from 17 members. The official report.
Assembly Business
Cedric Wilson (NIUP, Strangford)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek clarification that may be helpful to the Assembly. I refer to comments made last week by Dr Paisley:
"We have lodged our letters of resignation, but those resignations should take place immediately and should not be postponed." — [Official Report, Bound Volume 12, p294].
What was the result of the lodging of those resignation letters by Dr Paisley and his party members? Have you acted on his desire that they should take effect immediately?
John (Speaker, Belfast East)
As I understand it, Dr Paisley set out the situation clearly, and the position is as he stated it. There is nothing further that I should add to that.
Cedric Wilson (NIUP, Strangford)
Are we to understand, Mr Speaker, that he was tendering his resignation and those of the relevant Members of his party from the Executive? There has been no public confirmation that that has occurred.
John (Speaker, Belfast East)
The Member is somewhat confused. First, Dr Paisley could hardly have been tendering his resignation from the Executive since, for all his distinction, Dr Paisley is not a member of the Executive. He made it clear that, in the context of resignations by others, the resignation of his party’s Members would take effect.
This is not the first time on which the matter has arisen. Similar letters were previously provided. I take it that Dr Paisley wanted it to be clear beyond peradventure that, should other events take place, we will proceed.
Billy Hutchinson (PUP, Belfast North)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it permissible, under the code of conduct and Standing Order 42(4)(b), regarding the Pledge of Office, for Ministers to write newspaper articles in their capacity as Minister, without making reference to the matters that are supposed to be in their portfolio?
John (Speaker, Belfast East)
I will examine the matter and consider the extent to which it relates to Standing Orders — and, therefore, to what degree it involves me — and the extent to which it refers to the ministerial code, which is an Executive matter. As Members will be aware, the code has never been brought to the Assembly for approval. I will look into the matter that the Member has raised and respond to it.
Assembly: Suspension of Standing Orders
Maurice Morrow (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)
That Standing Order 40(1) be suspended in respect of the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00).
The Social Security Fraud Bill is an integral part of the overall strategy of modernising the social security system to ensure that the right money goes to the right people at the right time. The Bill is designed to improve the way in which fraud is detected and to deter potential fraudsters. Members across the Assembly have endorsed my desire to tackle fraud. The Committee for Social Development passed the Bill unanimously. No amendment has been put forward during the passage of the Bill, because Members are aware that I am required by the Northern Ireland Act 1998 to work with the Secretary of State to secure single systems of social security, child support and pensions for the United Kingdom. The Bill maintains parity with Great Britain on social security matters.
John (Speaker, Belfast East)
I remind Members that the matter is the suspension of Standing Orders so that the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill may be taken today. I shall not accept speeches on the subject of the Bill, only on procedural matters. I have had no requests to speak. If the motion is agreed, we shall proceed immediately to the Final Stage. If the motion falls, the Final Stage of the Bill, which is on the Order Paper, also falls and will be taken at a subsequent time. Suspension of Standing Order 40(1) requires cross-community support. If there are Ayes on all sides of the House and no Noes, I shall consider that to be cross-community support.
Question put and agreed to nemine contradicente.
Resolved (with cross-community support):
That Standing Order 40(1) be suspended in respect of the Final Stage of the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00).
Social Security Fraud Bill: Final Stage
Maurice Morrow (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)
I beg to move
That the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00) do now pass.
This is a short, but important, Bill. Members are concerned about fraud. The estimated £73 million per annum of public money that is lost due to benefit fraud must be reduced. I shall not go over the provisions of the Bill in detail. However, it will help to reduce that loss, first, through prevention and early detection, using new information-gathering powers, and secondly, by deterrence, using the powers to restrict payments to persistent offenders and the swift and effective punishment of collusive employers.
The Bill represents a measured response to the problem of benefit fraud. I do not suggest that it will eliminate all such fraud. However, it is a reasonable response to the problems that we face, and it will close some of the more obvious loopholes that have come to light in recent years.
I thank the Committee for Social Development for its careful scrutiny of the Bill, and also the Members who took part in the debate.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved:
That the Social Security Fraud Bill (NIA 16/00) do now pass.
Education and Training for Industry
Esmond Birnie (UUP, Belfast South)
I beg to move
That this Assembly takes note of the report from the Committee for Employment and Learning ‘Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry’ (1/01R).
On average, each worker in the Northern Ireland economy has a significantly lower output than his or her equivalent in Great Britain, in much of the rest of the European Union, or in the United States. Unless those levels of productivity can be raised, it is doubtful whether we will be able to keep unemployment levels low or generate the resources from which money for necessary social spending, such as on education or health, can be raised.
David Ervine (PUP, Belfast East)
Will the Member consider the fact that bad management is the reason that productivity is low or not as good as in other places?
Esmond Birnie (UUP, Belfast South)
I agree with the Member, and he will see that such issues are addressed in the report. Training, research and development can make a massive contribution to the achievement of higher productivity and, to reflect Mr Ervine’s intervention, that includes management training. Many columnists have argued that the skills of the labour force together with spending on associated research and development are the factors that result in any one region or country having a higher rate of economic growth than another. Education and training can contribute strongly to making unemployment, poverty and social exclusion less likely. There are strong grounds for regarding training for industry and its associated research and development as one of the most important challenges faced by the Assembly and the Executive.
We are not, however, arguing that the only value of education is its contribution to the economy. In early 2000, the Committee decided to initiate an inquiry into the contribution of the education system to industry and the research and development base in the universities. We have now completed that inquiry and are grateful to all who contributed. We had almost 40 oral evidence sessions and received over 100 pieces of written evidence. I thank especially the Clerk, the Committee staff, the three special advisers, our researcher, and all the Committee members for their hard work in bringing this substantial report into being.
(Mr Deputy Speaker [Sir John Gorman] in the Chair)
The level of interest generated by the inquiry was heartening. It indicates the importance of the subject and the widespread willingness to contribute to shaping improvements and policy in these areas and to do so by working with the institutions of devolved Government. The Committee supports the many initiatives in this area that the Minister and his Department have taken since devolution, and our recommendations are designed to enhance the impact of many of them. We do not underestimate the challenge that we face. Since as long ago as the mid-nineteenth century, official reports have argued that British schools are failing to meet the needs of industry. Even at that early stage a contrast was drawn with other countries, notably Germany. We all remember Tony Blair’s famous slogan before the 1997 election when he said that his aim was "Education, education, education."
All around the world, education for industry, technology and the promotion of entrepreneurship has become a holy grail for economic strategy and policy. There are, however, steps that can be taken at the level of our regional Government, and one of those is to make the necessary tough decisions on the allocation of spending between Departments. While almost every area of public spending claims to be underfunded, it is clear from the evidence given to the Committee’s inquiry that higher and further education and aspects of training require additional significant financial resources.
The Department for Employment and Learning has a strong case in a climate of interdepartmental competition for resources, given that many of its spending activities can be seen as investments that will lead to future economic growth and, hence, to the resources to fund future public spending. Where possible and appropriate, industrial and other non-Government sources of funding should be accessed.
Further action is required to correct the low levels of adult literacy and numeracy in Northern Ireland. That has been said frequently in the House. Other Departments have a responsibility to ensure that that serious problem is not perpetuated in future generations.
The Committee is anxious to maintain a geographical spread of further education provision. At the same time, there are grounds for some colleges to specialise in certain activities, and thereby attempt to secure positions as centres of excellence. We should encourage further education colleges to improve the statistical database of students and staff and to make it more consistent. Where possible, information technology modules should be included in further education courses.
With regard to higher education, the Northern Ireland universities have had to cope with a rapid increase in student numbers in the last decade. That increase has far exceeded the growth in public funding of higher education. That is a UK-wide phenomenon, and it has generated considerable strain. The Committee shares the concern of those commentators who note the serious decline in the real level of funding for Northern Ireland university- based research and development in the 1990s, which contrasts with its continued growth in Great Britain and its recent rapid expansion in the Republic of Ireland.
The universities can help themselves through the best possible performance in the research assessment exercise. At the same time, the Committee supports the creation of a separate pot of money, over and above that of the research assessment exercise, which can be devoted to research that reflects strategic or regional needs in Northern Ireland. I declare an interest in that subject, as I am on unpaid leave of absence from one of those universities.
The Committee wants to see business/education links promoted with vigour. It is pleased that the Northern Ireland Business Education Partnership now has a wider remit. However, the number of teacher placements in industry should be increased. In Scotland, one in 14 teachers — roughly 7% — has been placed in industry for at least one week. That compares to approximately 0·2%, or one in 400, of teachers here.
Careers education and guidance is a crucial area, and the staff who work in that field should be given esteem commensurate with the importance of their work. Careers education should be as up-to-date as possible, and therefore should make maximum use of information technology. Guidance provision should always put the interest of the recipient first, rather than any financial interest of a particular teaching institution.
While we await the completion of the Fulton review of the careers service, the Committee recommends that the Department give close attention to the recent development of careers education in places such as Wales. One cross-cutting matter of particular concern is the trend in subjects being studied at A level. Young people are voting with their feet against crucial disciplines, such as certain sciences and mathematics. Everything possible should be done to encourage an increase in the popularity of such subjects.
Even though the Northern Ireland labour market may now, sadly, be moving into a cyclical downturn, we believe that our findings on sectoral skills shortages are likely to be of lasting significance. Although the Committee commends the Department’s attempts to better marry types of labour demand and supply, more could be done to make the variety of agencies involved comprehensible to the private sector. The structure of Northern Ireland’s training organisations and sectoral training councils should be streamlined, given wider UK developments in those areas.
Above all, it should be recognised that skill levels in the Northern Irish workforce, in some respects such as sub-degree, technical and craft skills qualifications, fall short of those in Great Britain and much of the rest of the European Union. In the late nineteenth century, this region was one of the workshops of the world. Significant contributions were made to global science and technology. What was once true can be true again. I support the motion.
Mervyn Carrick (DUP, Upper Bann)
The Chairperson has already set the context for the Committee’s inquiry into education and training for industry. It was clear from the outset that the contribution of education and training to Northern Irish industry was of paramount importance. No one denies that education and training have an intrinsic merit in contributing to social and cultural worth, and do not need to be justified through economic payback alone. Nevertheless, it is vital that both education and training systems be geared to meeting economic needs. That dynamic must always be present to meet the demands of a continually changing labour market. We all have a role to play in ensuring that those demands are met efficiently and effectively. Furthermore, we must strive together to guarantee access for all.
At the first evidence session of the inquiry in June 2000, the economic commentator John Simpson told the Committee that it was to be complimented on the ambitious breadth of the inquiry. The terms of reference were, in retrospect, wide ranging. However, I have been heartened by the number of organisations from all sectors in Northern Ireland that have taken the time to work with the Committee to help to shape future policy.
During the inquiry, several areas emerged as vital to education and training systems, around which the report has been structured. I want to briefly focus on three areas of particular importance. Before I do so, I reiterate the Chairperson’s words of appreciation and gratitude to the Committee Clerk, his predecessor, the support staff, special advisers, and research staff. They were a tremendous encouragement to the Committee; they did an excellent job and deserve the Committee’s appreciation and gratitude.
First, I will speak about skills strategies. I acknowledge the work that the Northern Ireland Skills Taskforce and the Priority Skills Unit have done. A report recently published by the task force aims to raise awareness of skills issues and to encourage the development of positive actions and potential solutions. However, more needs to be done to develop a co-ordinated and flexible skills strategy to enable Northern Ireland’s education and training sectors to respond quickly and appropriately to the changing labour market. Any skills strategy must account for the fact that our economy is predominantly comprised of small and medium-sized enterprises. Their training costs can be particularly burdensome, and they find it more difficult to replace any staff released for training.
Neither can the low levels of adult literacy and numeracy in large sections of the community be ignored. The Department for Employment and Learning is preparing an urgently needed basic skills strategy, and the Committee looks forward eagerly to considering it. I must, however, caution that while strategies are important, immediate action is needed. The Committee took evidence on the work of Moy Park Ltd to address basic skills needs in the Upper Bann constituency. The link that Moy Park established with the East Tyrone College of Further and Higher Education was especially commendable.
The Committee also heard from another progressive firm in the Upper Bann constituency. Galen (Pharmaceuticals) has had difficulties in recruiting appropriate chemistry graduates. The decline in the number of students of scientific subjects and mathematics needs to be given serious consideration in the current review of the curriculum for 16- to 19-year-olds. There is a great need for education providers, Government agencies and the media to work together to increase scientific awareness.
The Department for Employment and Learning has worked hard on the image of the further education sector, but much more needs to be done to ensure parity of esteem for vocational and academic education. Geographical spread is essential to ensure local access to further education and to underpin social inclusion. However, that needs to be balanced with further movement towards specialisation in support of particular sections of the economy and the development of centres of excellence as appropriate.
The Department will soon finalise its further education strategy, which should address those issues. It must guide the allocation of funding for the sector. While I welcome the recent improvements in support for further education students, the overall per capita funding for students in the further education sector needs to be increased if it is to achieve its objective of delivering high-class vocational training on a par with academic qualifications.
Several colleges have developed mutually beneficial relationships with local businesses, and those should provide a template for the whole sector. Further education staff, in particular, need to understand the needs of local industry. The Department’s Lecturers Into Industry initiative has already played a part in that, as have the plans for its further development.
I am aware from the evidence submitted to the Committee that further education colleges are only just beginning to develop effective links with industrial development agencies. I urge action to ensure that the pace is increased with the creation of the Invest Northern Ireland agency.
A major review of careers education and guidance was carried out in 1995, but there has been only limited improvement since then. That area is vital, given increasing student numbers in tertiary education. Career choices are often not made until its completion. A job is no longer for life. Many adults face difficult career choices throughout their working lives and need access to career guidance. I was extremely impressed by the work carried out by the Education and Guidance Service for Adults in that regard.
I urge the Department to complete its response to the Fulton report. We need implementation and action sooner rather than later.
The Committee met the Committee for Education and Lifelong Learning from the National Assembly for Wales to discuss in depth the issue of careers education and guidance. It is clear that we have fallen behind our colleagues in Wales and Scotland, who have already opted for career guidance to be delivered to national standards in order to counteract the fragmented range of services at local level. I hope that we can soon achieve a centrally co-ordinated, independent and high-quality service to reflect the new curriculum and the needs of the economy.
The path from education through training to industry needs greater clarification so that stakeholders can understand it more easily. The Department for Employment and Learning has made a significant contribution towards ensuring that education and training systems respond early and effectively to economic indicators. However, much still needs to be done, and the Committee looks forward to collaborating with the Minister and the Department over the report, which sets out the key areas that the Committee believes must be addressed. I commend the report to the House.
Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)
As a member of the Committee, I endorse the report and congratulate the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson for the way in which they conducted the inquiry.
The inquiry into education and training for industry in Northern Ireland is vital to the training needs of our regional economy in the next 20 years. As a region, Northern Ireland must compete in a global economy through open competition in the EU, and, indeed, in the wider international trading context.
The statistics relating to Northern Ireland’s gross domestic product (GDP) performance remind us that we have a deficit to make up. At present, the average production from workers in Northern Ireland equates to 84% of the UK average. However, when we compare our production performance with the average in either the USA or the EU, we only achieve between 50% and 60%. That is a major concern. Performance is not just the responsibility of workers; management in Northern Ireland is facing a major challenge in trying to improve output.
One of the key issues that the Committee uncovered — and it was made clear through several submissions — was the poor level of literacy and numeracy, particularly in adults. Approximately 250,000 adults lack basic skills in numeracy or literacy. That is a severe handicap to people when they try to find employment, above all, in sustainable jobs. Skills and training pose a major challenge to education and training providers in Northern Ireland, particularly for practical skills training and higher technology skills training for industry.
The Committee received a wide range of submissions from the further education sector, the higher education sector and several community and private training providers. We also received a submission from the Training and Employment Agency. The Committee was particularly impressed by Bombardier Shorts’s submission, which outlined its in-house training facilities. The firm’s basic skills training is very much tailored to the needs of industry, and it impressed on us the need for future skills training to be tailored to those interests.
The Committee was also impressed by the submission from Letterkenny Regional Technical College, which highlighted the importance of further education or regional technical colleges as engines of local economic development.
The Committee made 43 recommendations, but I will not go into detail about those. The Committee found that good statistical information on training output and quality was lacking. The Department needs a statistical information unit to collate, analyse and evaluate skills training. That is much needed and would help in the provision of training tailored to the future needs of our economy.
The Committee had a strong desire to see more resources put into the Careers Advisory Service, particularly in secondary schools and further education colleges. Good careers advice is vital if we are to provide young people with the opportunity to realise their full potential. Young people must understand the different career possibilities that are available through academic, vocational or practical training routes.
We are all aware of the importance of university R&D in enabling manufacturing industry to develop new products — or adapt existing ones — and thus gain a competitive edge. The Committee was concerned at the lack of postgraduate students, who are vital to the development of research and development in our two universities. Postgraduate students will not be interested in R&D unless we also invest in the resources that are afforded to postgraduate students. The most crucial resource in university R&D is the postgraduate student working on a project under supervision.
The Committee is concerned at the lack of co-ordination between the 17 colleges of further education. Training provision for practical skills should be spread throughout Northern Ireland, not just centred in the two main cities or a few other towns. I come from Tyrone, which has a good history of providing workers for the construction industry. It is important to offer skills training in such rural parts of Northern Ireland.
The Committee had a wide-ranging remit. Tackling everything dealt with in the inquiry would be too big a project. However, it is important that it be used as a benchmark for the future provision of skills training in Northern Ireland. I commend the report to the House. I hope that lessons can be learnt, and that education and training providers can boost their contribution, so that young people and adults can avail of good opportunities in future.
Mary Nelis (Sinn Féin, Foyle)
Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the report, and I urge all Members to read it. It is evident from the number of oral and written submissions that the inquiry was long overdue. We should acknowledge the valuable input from education and training institutions, businesses, trade unions, the voluntary and community sectors, student unions, borough councils and churches.
The submissions from such diverse bodies were wide- ranging and informative. If the 43 recommendations are adopted, the concept of the intrinsic value of education and its relevance to job creation and the economy will be embedded in society.
The terms of reference of the inquiry were
"To examine and make recommendations to improve the contribution of further and higher education and training, including university- based Research and Development, to … industry."
That is a challenge for the Committee for Employment and Learning, for the Department and also for joined-up government. Those challenges must be met if we are to collectively pursue a culture of lifelong learning that will create enormous benefits for the individual and for society. We must strengthen, develop and mainstream education, training and industry and North/South co-operation in order to increase and stimulate economic growth. That action must be directed to the provision of real jobs.
The inquiry’s recommendations have assumed critical importance in the light of the current downturn in the global economy. In order to survive, we must implement them. In so doing, we will activate policies central to addressing unemployment, deprivation and social and educational exclusion, which are the lot of many of our young people.
We must make difficult choices if we are to lay to rest the twin evils of joblessness and poverty. We cannot sustain competing economies on this small island. We must set up a further and higher education system throughout Ireland, one which is open, inclusive and delivers high-quality education and training to all. Our overriding need for North/South co-operation in research and development was brought home by many of the witnesses who gave evidence to the Committee.
A major weakness of the report is its failure to identify areas for all-Ireland co-operation that would mutually enhance our prospects of competing in the global market. That is particularly relevant in the field of training provision, and is essential if we are to ensure access to third-level education through adequate student finance. I welcome the U-turn by the Labour Government in that respect.
Current mainstream training is linked to British Government macroeconomic policy. That has had major implications for the North, such as the lack of adequate quality training and job creation. There are regular newspaper headlines on the topic — for example, "EU peace money has trained 22,000 people." However, we rarely hear how that training has produced sustainable, full-time jobs; boosted the economy; upgraded the level of skills; or helped young people to build confidence.
As we have read in many submissions, training is geared to improving employability. However, it is not linked seriously to the provision of real jobs. In the main, the approach to training is top-down. That may, in part, account for the low skills level in the workforce.
Evidence also suggests that, in respect of sub-degrees and craft-trained qualifications, we fall far short of the Republic of Ireland, Great Britain and the rest of Europe. We must not underestimate the extent of the challenge facing us if we are simply to catch up. We recognise the initiatives begun by the Minister and the Department to address those problems, and we trust that the inquiry and its recommendations will speed the process.
There is a strong case in recommendations 9 to 19 for proper acknowledgement of and funding for further education colleges — and especially those in Newry, Armagh, Fermanagh, Omagh and Derry — to enable the development of a strategic, cross-border role for delivering basic skills, vocational education and training equity. This is despite the constraints placed on the allocation of public spending between Departments and the significant additional resources required by the Department for Employment and Learning. It would be an advantage, in the terms of reference and the expansion of the recommendations 31 and 33, if the Executive and the Government of the Twenty-six Counties could explore the possibility of establishing an all-Ireland body to promote and validate vocational qualifications such as NVQs, advanced certificates of vocational education (ACVES), national diplomas and HNDs.
Finally, a LeasCheann Comhairle, I will make a plug for my constituency and the development of Derry. It is the major alternative site for the growth of full-time higher education provision. I ask the Minister to consider establishing a working group to advance recommendations for the development of higher education in the north-west. This should be done in co-operation with the Dublin Government.
I wish to pay tribute to the Committee staff who have done sterling work in the preparation of this report. I urge all Members to give it serious consideration. Go raibh maith agat.
Séan Neeson (Alliance, East Antrim)
I welcome the report, though I was disappointed not to receive a copy until Saturday morning. I am not a member of this Committee, and to do the report full justice more time to study its contents would have been appreciated.
Having said that, it is a good, timely report. I suggest that Members read it in conjunction with the report from the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment on its inquiry into the implementation of ‘Strategy 2010’. During the public sessions of our inquiry, and even in oral submissions, the question of the relationship between training, industry and business came up time and time again. It is important that we take an interdepartmental approach towards the issues at hand; issues that affect not only the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Department for Employment and Learning, but the Department of Education as well. Dealing with enterprise culture starts at an early age.
I again welcome the fact that on numerous occasions Minister Farren and Minister Empey have worked in partnership when dealing with pressing issues. There is a strategic issue here for the Department for Regional Development as well. In ‘Shaping our Future’, reference is made to the provision of educational facilities on a regional basis throughout Northern Ireland, so an interdepartmental approach is required.
It is critical that the institutions provide the skills necessary to meet the needs of the economy. Recommendation 8, which rightly draws attention to the fact that there is a need to provide skills for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), is important. The backbone of industry in Northern Ireland is small businesses, and it is important that that be reflected in new education provision.
By the same token, I acknowledge that when Nortel was expanding — before its sad decline due to global recession — many further education institutes provided and developed the skills necessary for that industry. That was very welcome, and devolution has given opportunities to develop such provision.
I draw Members’ attention to recommendation 22 on the need to further increase the number of university places in Northern Ireland. The Department is working towards that, but far too many young people leave Northern Ireland for other parts of the UK and never return. We have lost many of our more talented people because there were not sufficient university places available in Northern Ireland. I hope that the Minister does not mind me reiterating the view that is shared by the vast majority of Members about student fees. Those fees must be abolished if we are to provide the equality of opportunity that is required.
Recommendation 28 refers to New Deal and to the need to monitor progress. I agree with that, but the Department and the Minister must seriously consider the vacuum that has been left with the demise of the ACE jobs. The impact of that is still being harshly felt in my constituency. I may have been critical of the level of skills development under the old ACE scheme, but at least the scheme contributed to meeting an important community need, particularly for the more vulnerable members of society.
Recommendation 28 also refers to equality of opportunity in training. That is an important issue. When the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment was considering its report, the need to provide equality of opportunity — particularly gender equality — in the workplace became very clear. We made recommendations in relation to those matters.
The report quite rightly highlights the importance of research and development. That is vital, especially given the new circumstances that we face following the events of 11 September. However, I am disappointed at the delay in setting up the science park in Belfast’s Titanic Quarter. I understand that the delay is through no lack of enthusiasm on the part of those charged with the task of establishing the organisation; rather, it is because of planning issues. If we are to have joined-up government and an interdepartmental approach, such issues must be addressed.
The report recognises the importance of information and communication technology. That issue kept cropping up, so I particularly welcome recommendation 19, which states that full-time students in further education should have one component in information and communication technology training. I ask Members to look back at recommendations 27 and 28 of ‘Strategy 2010’, which dealt specifically with further education and training and the commercialisation of new technology, as they deal directly with today’s topic of debate.
As a former teacher, I — and I am sure that this applies to Assembly Member Carson also — recognise the need to provide opportunities for placement in industry for teachers, particularly those involved in careers guidance.
This is a good and welcome report, but it can only be implemented if the resources are made available. I hope that they will be. The development of skills for the twenty-first century is vital to the people and communities of Northern Ireland, and when we provide the necessary facilities, TSN must be taken into consideration. I support the motion.
Monica McWilliams (NIWC, Belfast South)
Some of the background research commissioned for the inquiry pointed to four main problems with education and training for industry. The first was the low percentage of workforce qualification levels in Northern Ireland. The qualification mix is not what Northern Ireland needs, and some qualifications are dated. One of the most important conclusions was that we do not have enough people with intermediate types of skills. Clearly, we must do something about that. The statistics for job-related training are also relatively low. Finally, employers’ commitment to human resource development and investment is also lower than it is elsewhere.
We know what the problems are. The report includes a number of recommendations. I would also advise drafting a vision for the future along the following lines: we must enhance our human capital; we must have better and more flexible training; and education and employment services must be targeted towards identified growth services and sectors. One of the problems is that too much of our training is supply-driven; not enough of it is demand- driven.
Secondly, we need to tap into our local knowledge and expertise. A major recommendation of the report — and this must be part of our vision for the future — is to link higher education, further education and our centres of research excellence to optimise innovation.
Thirdly, the report points to offering more and better pathways to social integration — opening up access to jobs and training for those who were previously excluded.
Fourthly, we must modernise with a broader economic base, so as to shift from the old to create the new. We must create niches of high-value specialisation. I recognise the problem of simultaneously exposing ourselves to the vulnerabilities and volatility of modern global markets by becoming overdependent on any one particular sector. Unfortunately, as we know, Northern Ireland has suffered greatly from such overdependence in the past.
Finally, we must create high-quality working and training environments to induce our talent to stay here and at the same time to attract researchers and investors to come to Northern Ireland. Much of what we heard was about old infrastructure, about buildings that were falling down — unattractive environments for people to be trained in and not the places that adult learners should be returning to. They were put off so much by what they had previously experienced that they never wanted to return.
The key view of many participants who gave evidence was that we needed to build more partnerships.
What struck me very forcibly was the evidence that we took from the providers in the South. FÁS, the Irish training and employment authority, made the point that it had had to go through a period of rapid change. The colleges there had to face up to forming consortia: further education colleges, or technical colleges as they were formerly known, coming together to specialise. However, too many of them were providing too much of the same, rather than anticipating changes in the labour market and the needs of new investors in a flexible and rapid fashion. They have changed enormously, and we could learn a lot from that.
Currently, colleges in Northern Ireland are competing instead of co-operating. Someone needs to take a strong hand on that, and I ask the Minister to put in place a strategy for further education. The demands are not being met in the way that they should. The strategy should be anticipating changes as well as attracting young people into further education colleges and sending them out well trained, whether with modern apprenticeships or the skills that are in demand.
The evidence from the district councils was interesting. Banbridge District Council made a strong case that while district councils, LEDU and local enterprise agencies worked together, further education, higher education and the T&EA were not currently part of this collaborative effort. There needs to be a response to such statements.
There is concern that a unit should be developed. No doubt the Minister will tell us that there are agencies or units within the Departments that have some kind of workforce strategy and are developing ways to respond to future labour market needs. I sit on the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety, and I am concerned that the Health Minister intends to carry out a workforce strategy, as there are enormous shortages. This report relates to industry, but if we are to have an interdepartmental approach, it might be useful to have a look, right across the Departments, at the workforce needs in Northern Ireland, and to have a strategy in place for that.
Another concern highlighted in the report relates to the careers service. Scotland and Wales have tackled this problem, brought together a number of providers in partnership, and examined how business and education can relate to industry. That is not the case in Northern Ireland. A report on that will be published shortly, and I cannot anticipate its recommendations. However, those giving evidence said that the current level of careers advice at secondary school level left a lot to be desired. That was a major concern.
Secondly, they need to develop a mechanism to feed information about the skills shortages into the education system. An engineering firm made the point that it had huge skills shortages, and yet was not aware that teachers and careers advisors were knowledgeable about these skills shortages. We must modernise our careers service as soon as possible.
It would probably be useful to hear about ‘career window’. What happened to ‘career window’? It was to be an Internet service that could provide information. Resources were set aside for that, but it seems to have disappeared. Our researchers found that there was a lower use of Internet services in Northern Ireland. That is a problem for us. The promotion of the Internet among young people is important, but we must remember that the socially excluded do not always have access to such services. If we have gone down the road of introducing ‘career window’, can the Minister say when it is to take effect and what its importance to the careers service will be?
Clearly there are issues surrounding the curriculum — it seems that many of the matters that I am talking about begin with the letter "C" — and it has been one of the major problems in Northern Ireland. While Germany and Sweden have pointed to a mix of academic and vocational qualifications, Northern Ireland has done better in the academic field than in the vocational field. We need to start promoting parity between the two.
As a former academic — I should not say "former", given the current state of the Assembly — I am conscious that this is a very difficult job. There is a problem with the pathway between the vocational and the academic — it should be a lattice rather than a ladder. Currently a great deal of emphasis is put on academic and professional qualifications, particularly by parents. They must be made aware that there are many opportunities. The A-level content of the new curriculum could be changed accordingly. It is interesting to hear that the GNVQ is to be retitled as a "vocational A Level". That may make people look at it differently. Other countries have made a better job of this. We can learn from their experiences, as the report indicates. The Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment said that the number of pupils who currently mix academic and vocational subjects is not known. The database is inadequate in that respect.
We were also very impressed by the promotion of the worlds of employment and education through services such as the Northern Ireland Business Education Partnership (NIBEP). They speak to clusters of businesses. They provide mentors and role models. I was particularly taken by the fact that they are targeting socially deprived communities. It is too often the case that businesses make links only with the grammar school sector. So it was important to hear that work experience, enterprise awareness and commercial understanding are being promoted through teacher placements and school placements. I repeat the statistics mentioned by the Chairperson. Scotland was able to provide 600 teacher placements, whereas we could provide only 45. The statistics speak for themselves. Nevertheless it is good to hear that 1,000 business advisers are now participating in schools in Northern Ireland.
he main theme that comes across is that this is now part of the mainstream. When we reflect on our school days, how many of us in the Assembly can say that we had opportunities to hear from business and industry representatives or to go out on work experience? That has changed. However, much more needs to be done, and we are concerned about the underfunding of organisations such as NIBEP.
We heard about equal opportunities issues and barriers to training. The benefit regulations show the need for interdepartmental partnerships between the Department for Social Development, the Department of Education, the Department for Employment and Learning and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment. A more co-operative approach must be taken by the Departments. There are concerns about the eligibility rules. How meaningful is the training for those on the New Deal programme? I have heard from constituents who felt that the training was demeaning, did not lead to productive employment and was simply a way to continue to manipulate the employment statistics.
The positive action programmes were important for women. The Women’s Training, Enterprise and Childcare organization (Women’s TEC) talked about the importance of giving women confidence in a women-only training environment, especially in areas which are traditionally stereotyped as men’s jobs, such as construction. They were able to encourage women into these jobs and into the area of information and communication technology. They also provide on-site childcare. The Minister has visited projects where he has seen this at first hand, and we encourage him to continue with that.
There were also, as Sean Neeson has pointed out, examples from the community of adult learning and community-based learning that we should be able to tap in to. The Chairperson was able to visit not-for-profit organisations in the United States and saw that there seems to be much greater collaboration between business and enterprise and community leadership. Given the amount of funding that is going into these areas, and particularly into the social economy, that is obviously something that we should be building on.
One of the major points of the report is the need for reorganisation. Representatives from the further education sector complained that there are too many private training providers and that the sector is unable to compete with them. There is a plethora of national training organisations, sectoral training councils, and other providers; that is creating confusion. A much more strategic approach to training is needed. Perhaps there is an urgent need to look at how these bodies are collaborating — or are they competing against each other? The good practice models of the universities in Northern Ireland and the incubator schemes to enable higher education providers to reach out to business and the community should be encouraged.
A major recommendation is that the research assessment exercise is not helpful, given that sufficient credit is rarely given to researchers who apply their work to a Northern Ireland context. I emphasise the Northern Ireland Economic Council’s recommendation that 10% of that research should be given credit where it applies to the Northern Ireland situation. Perhaps that would encourage more academics to produce work that is of relevance and that can be fed back into the economy here rather than to international journals that are not always relevant to Northern Ireland. That would encourage applied research so that researchers would not tend to look at their work solely from the point of view of how it will enhance their careers.
Finally, there is the question of an employer levy. Is the employer levy productive and should we be introducing it? It ring-fences the needs for training. Both France and Australia have this. We took contradictory evidence in Northern Ireland, and it would not be surprising to hear that the trade unions here were in favour of the levy and businesses were not.
It is argued that for such development in any country, materials, manpower, marketing, management and money are needed. The report addresses, in particular, the issues of manpower, skills, education and learning. In the end, the Minister will be asked "Where is the money for it?".
Joan Carson (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)
As a member of the Committee for Employment and Learning, I commend this report to the Assembly. I thank all the Committee staff for their hard work — we could not have battled through all of the submissions and the reports without their being well tabulated for us. I welcome the input into this inquiry from industrialists, employment agencies and education providers. Sitting there each day, and as a former primary school principal, I was extremely worried. We have always had pride in our education system and manufacturing expertise.
For many years Northern Ireland led in industrial development and achieved remarkable export results, et cetera, in spite of ongoing terrorism for 30 years. However, this view of our education system will change for everybody when they read this report and see the evidence from the industrialists. The submissions to the Committee catalogued the failure of the present system to educate our young people properly and prepare them to meet the requirements of industry.
A submission from one firm gave examples of employees who were incapable of doing their job because of a lack of literacy and numeracy skills. That can produce an adverse effect on production and product safety. The firm’s submission stated that some of its employees could not count pieces of a product into a bag, identify the letters of the alphabet, or identify the days of the week. The firm ended its submission with a plea that all students must achieve basic levels of numeracy and literacy before they leave school. It is not the responsibility of industry, secondary level education or higher and further education to tackle literacy and numeracy.
One of the engineering firms stated that careers guidance must be radically overhauled. Another firm stated that it had received a visit from chemistry teachers, and 99% of them had not considered employment in industry.
The evidence from the Education and Training Inspectorate was particularly interesting. The Committee heard that the difficulties with literacy and numeracy were common across 17 colleges. However, one of the witnesses said he was
"always slightly bemused when people talk about employees who cannot add up to nine, and so on. To be honest our evidence is not of a system in further education, or anywhere else, dreadfully failing our young people on this scale. Of course, there are exceptions, and we dare not be complacent".
That was not what the Committee was getting from other submissions.
As a former primary school principal I know that Members cannot afford to be complacent. The crux of the problem highlighted in the report is not about education failing young people at secondary or further education level; it is about education failing young people at primary school level. Screening for problems at primary school level would be a start.
A remedial programme is a necessity for the 16-plus age group, but the root of the problem is in the primary school sector and it should be tackled there. I do not blame the teachers; the problem is with the bureaucratic pressure imposed on them. I ask for action now, not only for funding of the lifelong learning projects and liaisons with industry, but also for progress in the primary school sector to solve the problems of literacy and numeracy. I support the motion.
Annie Courtney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)
I welcome the report. The agreed terms of reference were
"To examine and make recommendations to improve the contribution of further and higher education and training, including university- based Research and Development, to Northern Ireland industry."
Part of the Committee’s rationale was to determine the way forward for Northern Ireland to increase its productivity in the global marketplace. Northern Ireland’s productivity is significantly lower than that of its competitors. As has already been said, productivity is only 84% of that in the UK and just over 50% of that in the USA.
Education and training increase productivity levels, which in turn increase social inclusion. That, on an individual basis, will lead to higher earnings. The Committee gathered information from as wide a range of people and organisations as possible. The Committee for Employment and Learning is supportive of the infrastructure and the initiatives that the Minister and the Department have put in place since devolution.
The report is a timely contribution to an important debate. The economic environment is constantly evolving. The Programme for Government states that the Northern Ireland Executive is committed to developing a knowledge-based economy. The Foyle constituency, which I represent, has seen a significant growth in the IT sector, although there is still a long way to go in the north-west.
The North West Institute of Further and Higher Education in Derry made a significant contribution to the evidence gathering. The director of the institute, Peter Gallagher, and his deputy, Seamus Murphy, gave much oral evidence to the Committee. In addition, Dorothy McElwee and her associates from the North West Institute gave oral evidence on New Deal. Derry City Council supplied further written evidence. The future of our education, skills and development is in lifelong learning.
The downturn in the world economy after the appalling attacks on 11 September will be felt locally. The recent announcement from Bombardier Shorts is evidence of that. That will be the biggest mass redundancy here in recent times, and the knock-on effect has still to be realised. Maydown Precision Engineering Ltd in Derry is still waiting to hear if its production will be affected. In the run-up to Christmas, workers can only hope that the fallout will not affect them too badly, if at all.
This weekend there was the further announcement that Marketing Database Associates Ltd would not be setting up in Derry in the foreseeable future. The Boston- based firm was to have established a major call centre there. The development was announced about six months ago, and the firm took over a former shirt factory and employed 26 people. Not only will those people now lose their jobs, but the expected 150 new jobs will not be realised.
There will be a knock-on effect for local suppliers. People who supply office equipment and personal computers are very much affected. Some of those firms have outstanding accounts, and those may be sufficient to put some of them out of business. I hope that that is a worst-case scenario and that it will not happen. It is therefore more important than ever that we should be able to respond with speed, quality and flexibility to changes in the demands of industry.
The Committee has made 43 recommendations that are all worthy of consideration. I hope that the Minister will refer to some of his priorities. I know that he is committed to developing a culture of lifelong learning, and excellence in learning and training. People are at the heart of economic growth. I stress that we need structures built around people, not the other way round. Foreign investment adds value to the local economy, and we must encourage it. I commend the report, and I support the motion.
Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)
I want to put on record my appreciation of the staff who collated the information during our oral and written evidence taking. It has been worthwhile, and many important issues have emerged. I will try not to go back over the many issues that have already been covered; instead, I will flavour my comments with my own experience and interest. I hope that that will be of some benefit to the discussions.
First, I want to comment on recommendation 1, which highlights the poor levels of basic adult educational skills in Northern Ireland. That is an area that is becoming increasingly important, not only to the people involved — and because of the social exclusion that may result — but to the economy of Northern Ireland. Unemployment levels are much lower than they were in previous decades, and we must try to continue to improve people’s educational attainments so that they, in turn, can take up job opportunities when those exist.
In an answer to a written question, the Minister advised me that 44% of the unemployed have no educational qualifications. We must continue to target that and to improve our education levels. Recommendation 4 is for a review of the curriculum for 16- to 19-year-olds, so that it will become increasingly relevant. In particular, we have highlighted the weaknesses in scientific subjects. I want to draw Members’ attention to some of the information that was highlighted during the evidence sessions. In particular, there may in this detailed report be lessons for members of the Education Committee that may not have been immediately obvious.
At one evidence session, Ms Carol Phillips from Bombardier Shorts advised the Committee that some students were struggling with a course at Belfast Institute of Further and Higher Education (BIFHE). The college expected a high failure rate, but Bombardier expected and wanted people to succeed. Bombardier was willing to do whatever needed to be done to ensure that the students in whom it was investing would succeed. Bombardier and BIFHE formed a partnership to review the students’ curriculum. Time and money was invested in the course and the net result of incorporating new projects into the syllabus was renewed interest from the students because the course was relevant. Following that, students had a 100% pass rate where previously they had been failing. It is not rocket science. It is a matter of making the course relevant, changing the curriculum where necessary and enabling students to retain an interest in the subject. That is a basic concept that should be applied to all areas in which difficulties are being experienced.
Recommendation 10 states that
"Decisions regarding the development of centres of excellence at individual colleges should stem from the overall strategy for the sector."
I support that recommendation, which would develop expertise and enable some people to specialise, as everybody cannot do everything. However, the Committee has added a caveat that
"This should be underpinned by a commitment to innovative schemes, which increases access and supports a geographical spread of provision across Northern Ireland."
We are saying that basic courses for which there is an undoubted demand from all over Northern Ireland must be well spread throughout the Province. However, there will have to be a degree of specialisation if we are to reach levels to enable us to compete with other regions.
I must plug my own constituency, which remains the only one in Northern Ireland to not have a permanent further education campus. The people of Larne and Carrickfergus are badly served by the current further education structure. The lowest wage levels in Northern Ireland are also to be found in those towns. A low level of attainment at NVQ level 4 is to be found in the same areas. Those issues are all related. Neither the informal education structure nor educational bodies such as Proteus (NI) Ltd and the Educational Guidance Service for Adults have been sufficiently provided for. I strongly support a wide geographical spread so that no area is discriminated against and the educational needs of all are addressed.
Some of the historical difficulties with the informal structure may be related to the relatively low levels of community activity in East Antrim. That is another problem that the Departments must address collectively so that people will be able to get on to the educational ladder to improve their own abilities, which will increase their self-worth and the opportunities open to them.
Recommendation 17 refers to the establishment of
"Closer links with local industry, industrial development organisations, including increased staff participation in the Lecturers into Industry initiative".
I have become aware of past failings through my work in the Committee and through my interest in the subject.
I was astounded when an assistant director of a local college told me that until a couple of years ago the IDB had never made contact with a further education college. In the USA and Europe, a key factor in an investment decision is the local education provision and how it will marry with a company’s needs. The IDB has begun to address that issue, and I hope that Invest Northern Ireland will dramatically increase interaction with local colleges. Introductions should be made so that new employers coming into Northern Ireland can feel confident that they will receive support. There are, undoubtedly, good examples of local colleges that have developed courses with local and international companies. That should be standard practice.
Colleges must work towards creating better contact with local employers. The Committee’s recommendation affects institutions other than the Departments. Everyone concerned must try to improve and increase partnerships. Partnership is the key word in any developing region, and groups should work together for the benefit of all.
Recommendation 26 calls for a more comprehensive and streamlined national training organisation and a sectoral training council. The evidence highlighted many employment sectors that are not covered by the current structures. That means that those sectors are not publicising or addressing the issues that concern them. There is also duplication and overlap. Procedures must be restructured and streamlined to bring them into line with the national training organisations. In that way we can easily have an input into changes — for example, changes to NVQs. We can also contribute to the national structure and air the Northern Ireland perspective.
Recommendation 36 states the need for an independent, comprehensive and up-to-date careers education and guidance service. As one of the younger Members of the Assembly, I can recall my own school days. Careers guidance consisted of two limited 15- or 30-minute sessions. The provision of careers guidance rests largely on teachers, who may have a limited perspective on the outside world and the needs of industry or employers.
There is potential for conflict, because it is difficult for a teacher in one school to recommend that a pupil should take up a course in another school. At a time of keen competition for student numbers between schools and colleges, it is convenient to recommend the easy option that pupils should continue their education in the familiar surroundings of their current college or school. The full range of options may not be given an appropriate airing. Careers guidance should be more comprehensive and independent so that students are made aware of every employment opportunity. In that way they can take a more reasoned view on continuing their education or commencing employment.
During the oral sessions, one of Northern Ireland’s leading companies, Galen (Pharmaceuticals), told the Committee of its difficulty in recruiting biochemists and chemists, even though job opportunities were available. Professors at the universities said that places were available on chemistry courses, but that they could not get students to take those places.
When university places and relatively well-paid jobs are available, what is wrong with the current structure? Why are those wonderful opportunities not being better highlighted to schools and further education colleges? Something in the system is surely failing. Unless the educational requirements of industry are met, companies will go elsewhere or, as with Galen, will recruit from Europe and further afield to get the specialisation that they require.
It is important that we build on existing opportunities and that young people be shown those opportunities at an early stage. It is not enough to encourage people to take an O level or an A level in a subject. Clear information should be available early on so that students can assess the current job vacancies in Northern Ireland and how much they could be earning. Students should consider that when choosing their A levels and university courses. Currently that information is not easily available.
There was much merit in the information we received on the careers guidance service in Wales, where an independent service has been developed. I am not saying that it should simply be imported en bloc — there are criticisms of it — but the concept of an independent guidance service, where there is no self- interest and where quality information is given to students irrespective of their school or college, is there. That service is of high quality; it is up-to-date and independent. That is not only desirable but essential if the needs of industry are to be met in the future.
John Gorman (UUP, North Down)
I call the Chairperson of the Education Committee. Please keep your remarks fairly concise.
Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)
Thank you for that useful tip — would that others had heard it earlier.
I welcome the report on education and training for industry. I congratulate the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Members and officials involved. The report covers a wide range of issues and makes important recommendations.
My remarks will be less detailed than I would have liked, but I want to make some initial comments. There is no doubt that education and training lie at the heart of Northern Ireland’s ability to provide a highly competitive, skilled and adaptable workforce, capable of meeting future demands. That is absolutely vital in a strong and vibrant economy. I welcome the Committee’s recommendations to improve links between business and education, and those to ensure parity of esteem for academic and vocational qualifications.
During evidence on the review of post-primary education, the Education Committee was told by a number of organisations, including the Confederation of British Industry and the Institute of Directors, of the shortage of employees with the necessary skills and aptitudes for today’s workplace.
The evidence we received overwhelmingly suggested the need for parity of esteem between academic and vocational qualifications. Our report will be published shortly, and it will highlight those issues. We will also carefully scrutinise Mr Gerry Burns’s recommendations in his report on the review of post-primary education to determine their potential and whether they can be implemented into any new education system.
I must record my dismay at the findings of the Committee for Employment and Learning on the low level of adult literacy and numeracy among large sections of the community. There is undoubtedly a link between poor basic skills, unemployment and exclusion. The current system has failed these people. I hope that initiatives to address their problems can be brought forward speedily, and I will wholeheartedly support them. While it may be true that the main problem lies with people who left school some time ago, there is no room for complacency. We must provide young people with those skills.
The Committee for Education welcomed the new targets for literacy and numeracy included in the new public service agreements, but was slightly disappointed that they were lower than those outlined in the strategy for numeracy and literacy. We pressed the Department of Education on that matter. As a top priority, we will scrutinise and monitor the work of the Department to ensure that appropriate action is being taken to enable those targets to be at least met and, if possible, improved upon, so that young people have the best possible start in life.
We need careers education and guidance to assist young people to make the best choices in their careers. The report highlights concerns about the quality of careers advice and the perception that academic courses are promoted in preference to vocational ones.
I agree with the recommendation by the Committee for Employment and Learning of a system that provides a high-quality service to all its users, reflects the opportunities available in the economy and equally promotes academic and vocational careers. I anticipate appropriate action to achieve that in the near future.
Sean Farren (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)
I thank Dr Birnie and the Committee for their thoughtful consideration of this vital aspect of my Department’s responsibility. Like other Members of the House who are not members of the Committee, I have not had sufficient time to reflect on the report in detail. However, I certainly appreciate and welcome the Committee’s intentions to improve the quality of education and training provision for our young people and to enhance the skills of our workforce and of those not at present in employment. The report is a valuable contribution to an essential debate and a fine example of how our institutions are able to interact with the wider community. Given the large number of organisations and institutions which presented evidence to the Committee, it is also an example of the close engagement, attention and interest on our part in the developments which are taking place in the sectors relevant to the work of my Department.
I trust that we can continue — not just through the Committee for Employment and Learning, but through all of the Statutory Committees — to so engage, and to demonstrate that we can be responsive to the needs of our society.
I fully agree with the Committee’s view on the importance of the subject. The Executive have emphasised the importance of the subject by including education, skills and competitiveness in the Programme for Government. My Department’s aim is to promote a culture of lifelong learning and to equip people for work in a modern economy. Those aims and objectives are reflected in the Programme for Government. They spring from the belief that education and training after compulsory schooling can and do make a powerful contribution to economic position and social inclusion.
Universities and colleges create the vast majority of our higher level and technical skills; universities, as indicated in last year’s report from the Northern Ireland Economic Council, provide a more substantial proportion of our R&D than is the case elsewhere in the UK and Ireland. Colleges and training organisations offer our young people and adults a first and a subsequent opportunity to gain a wide range of vocational, technical or occupational qualifications that allow them to progress to further and higher education or into work. Further education, higher education and vocational training feed directly into the economy and, as they are helping our population to acquire job-related skills, self-confidence and self-esteem, they are also promoting greater social inclusion.
Since I came to office I have endeavoured to promote policies that are in the best interests of those who attend our colleges, training facilities and universities, and the employers and public and social institutions who receive their skills and attributes. I am grateful for the support for these policies contained in the report. I fully accept the spirit of the report as a determined effort to develop and strengthen education and training and to enhance its contribution to the regional economy. It is important to bear in mind the general context in which the submissions were made and in which the report was compiled. It was compiled on evidence that was presented before we had any sense of a recession or a downturn in the global economy. Therefore, over the last year and further back, we were thinking in the context of significant growth continuing over the next few years.
I remind Members that more of our people are employed than ever before, and that our economy has been expanding at a significant rate. Trying to meet the needs that were created by the pressures of the expansion of our economy has not always been easy, particularly when it comes to skills supply. Several Members acknowledged that fact in their remarks.
Some of the developments I have been responsible for include the establishment of a skills task force and the initiation of a series of research projects designed to improve our understanding of the demand side of the labour market. The task force recently published its first comprehensive report, which I commend to Members.
That report covers much of the ground in the Committee’s report, and, set alongside a major monitoring survey of skill needs, it complements and supports many of the Committee’s conclusions.
The support programme for university research is another inititiative. Several Members spoke of the need to invest much more in locally generated research. The support programme will provide over £40 million from a public-private partnership over the next four years to invest in the R&D infrastructure in both of our regional universities.
Last week, I was privileged to launch one of the projects selected as worthy of support by the international panel — the Sonics Arts Centre at Queen’s University. This will bring together the knowledge and scholarship in the creative arts and technology sectors in an intensely creative way. It will also provide opportunities for economic and social activity, as well as for teaching and research. I was pleased to learn that the research that is being undertaken is at the frontier of research in that area. The centre could become a leading research centre in world terms. The Centre for Molecular Biosciences at the University of Ulster will build on the strong research record in this area and provide support for the university’s technology transfer activities. Those are only two of the projects funded through the support programme. Several other projects are in the process of development, some of which will be launched in the near future.
My recent changes to student support, my access measures in futher and higher education, my introduction of individual learning accounts (ILAs) and learndirect and my support for the Northern Ireland credit accumulation and transfer system (NICATS) are illustrative of my determination to embed the principle of lifelong learning in society and open up opportunities for education and training to a much broader cross- section of the community.
As a result of these initiatives, participation in learning has grown considerably, and Members are aware from recent Assembly Questions that we have had an overwhelming response to ILAs in particular. I do not have the most recent figures to hand, but over 50,000 accounts have been opened, although not all are being drawn down at the moment. However, those figures are well ahead of initial projections, and I trust that we will be able to meet the demands for finance so that people can benefit from educational opportunities, particularly in the lifelong learning context that the provision of ILAs opens up. I welcome the Committee’s endorsement of my existing policy direction in these vital areas.
I will move to the essence of the report. At this stage I cannot respond to each of the 43 recommendations. Members will appreciate that there has not been sufficient time to give them the full consideration they deserve. However, I promise to return to those in detail in the near future. I would welcome the opportunity to respond in writing and follow that up in discussion with the Committee. The report is important and deserves no less.
I would like to reflect on some of the main themes suggested by the recommendations and relate my response to the published strategic plan of my Department. I have identified the following five themes: the need for action on poor levels of adult basic skills; a sharper focus, in particular, on information and communication technology skills and on retraining and reskilling the existing workforce or those currently unemployed; the strategic direction of further education and the issues which flow from that; the contribution which the universities can make to the economy and, in particular, to developing the enterprise culture; and the need to develop training provision and related occupational and vocational qualifications.
The issue of basic skills has come before the House on several occasions, not least through Members’ persistent questioning of Ministers. The Committee is aware that basic skills have been identified in its strategic plan as one of the key issues that the Department will face over the coming years. I understand the concerns of the Committee and others about this. It is a significant challenge that must be overcome if the skills levels available in the economy are to be raised and if our population is to aspire to social and personal advancement and esteem.
Officials are working on a comprehensive basic skills strategy for adults, which I hope to bring forward for consultation within the next two months. I recognise the impatience that many people feel about this, and I sympathise with them. However, I ask Members to recognise that it is complex. Existing approaches, while of benefit, have not brought sufficient success. In the 1970s, when I first became involved with higher education, an initiative to address that was launched with a great deal of publicity, and we live with its effects today. We must think carefully about initiatives that we launch now to ensure that they will have the desired effect.
Asking people to come forward and admit that there is a problem is not easy, particularly when it is to do with a basic skills deficit. The image of basic skills work must therefore be transformed, and a wide and comprehensive range of programmes and providers must be involved, including training in the workplace. We have had some experience of that through initiatives that employers have participated in with other education providers, notably further education colleges. Those initiatives have met with reasonable and gratifying success and have encouraged us to build on them. Standards, curricula, assessment arrangements and the professional development of tutors must be worked through. Realistic targets must be identified. In due course, I will welcome the opportunity to share our strategy with the Committee and to seek its support.
I have already mentioned the work of the skills task force, which supports our commitment in the Programme for Government. I fully acknowledge that we must update the relevance and quality of vocational education and training if we are to achieve and sustain our goal of an expanding economy based on knowledge-based industries. All our higher and further education and training providers are aware of this aim and are working towards it. We must also remember that there is, and will continue to be, a significant demand for traditional trades, notably in the construction industry. Evidence suggests an absence of candidates for modern apprenticeships in those areas. In emphasising the skills relevant to the knowledge- based economy, we must not forget that many traditional skills will persist. The demand for those skills will remain considerable, and that demand must be met. We must strike a balance between the two.
The current difficulties in the global economy have had an impact on Northern Ireland. Members have stressed our current situation. In the last year, we have attempted to meet the skills shortage in some of the electronics sectors by providing a training programme tailored to meeting them. We now find that we have difficulty placing trainees who completed that programme, which was set up specially to meet the pressures that existed in those electronic industries.
Let us hope that the difficulties are short-lived. It is to be hoped that we will soon be back into a period of expansion, and will again face the challenge of meeting skills needs.
John Gorman (UUP, North Down)
You are running a little over your time.
Sean Farren (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)
I apologise if I cannot get to all of the Members’ questions or points. I ask you to indulge me with a few more minutes to complete my general overview of the points that were raised. I will reply in writing to Members on points that I do not address which are of particular concern to them.
Careers education has been emphasised by many Members. A review is taking place, and Prof Fulton will report in the near future. A new course at Magee College is being provided to ensure that professional training and development exists locally. Members will see a significant change in career guidance provision. We must remember that independent career guidance is provided through existing jobcentres, so we are not totally reliant on the guidance provided at school level. We need to work on developing and improving that service.
Many Members have referred to the need to strengthen and develop relationships with the business community, particularly through our further education colleges. I certainly endorse that. Members have called for a spread of provision within the further education sector, and for a concentration on specialisation. Members will recall that through funds made available last year, moneys have gone to colleges to encourage them to work together. Several colleges have formed alliances under these auspices, supported by the funds made available. Centres of excellence have been identified in many of our colleges — a point made by several Members. Our further education sector needs to continue providing the broad range of courses that has traditionally been provided.
Frequent reference is made to the institutes of technology in the South. I direct Members’ attention to a strong warning made to the colleges there by an authority, only last week, about the danger of what is described as "upward drift". This, in other words, is moving out of the provision of the broad range of vocational, business and technical courses in order to try to emulate the universities. What we have here is an opportunity to maintain the best of both, and in our strategy we will have that very much in mind.
I take on board points made with respect to the need to keep in touch with developments in how training is organised. I note the suggestion by some Members that there may well be unnecessary overprovision, and competing provision, in some elements of training. It is important to point out that all training providers are subject to supervision, evaluation and assessment by my Department, and the standards are national, not local.
John Gorman (UUP, North Down)
I am sorry, Minister, but you have now used up your time.
Sean Farren (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. Curtailed as I am, I trust that I have attempted to indicate a positive response and a welcome for the report. It is a clear indication of how our Committee system is working well in conjunction with Ministers, enabling us to plan effectively for the future of those areas that we have responsibility for.
Esmond Birnie (UUP, Belfast South)
I thank everyone who spoke, especially the Minister, the Chairperson of the Committee for Education and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment. I quote from George Bernard Shaw:
"He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career."
The linking of skills and jobs is of general interest and not just for us as individual politicians. Certain themes have been raised repeatedly in the last two hours. These include the need for a comprehensible skills strategy in co-operation with the private sector; the urgency of dealing with the appallingly high level of poor basic adult literacy and numeracy; the importance of having comprehensive careers guidance for young people — as well as for those already well established in the labour force — and the need to reverse a historical trend against funding for university-based research and development.
I apologise to Members for the relatively small period between the arrival of this tome in the post and today’s debate. The report has been lodged in the Business Office for some time, and we did attempt to circulate the relevant recommendations to Committees over a week ago.
The report suggests that workers and managers should be able to stand tall as regards qualifications that are recognised and interchangeable with those in Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland and the rest of the world. Our universities should establish research partnerships whenever it is appropriate, and that may be in a North/South direction, with the rest of the UK, or with the world.
I applaud the Minister for his Department’s objective of embedding a culture of lifelong learning. The Committee will await the result of the current needs and effectiveness evaluation to see what extra resources are needed to realise that goal and to measure the productivity, efficiency and effectiveness of the existing resources. The Committee welcomes his commitment to respond quickly to the recommendations. I am aware that, to use a school analogy, I am racing against the lunch-break bell.
It is very appropriate that we have debated the motion today, because it is about the future. We have done so in a harmonious spirit, and I hope that the media will reflect that. Earlier, there was at least one school party in the Gallery. In a sense we are dealing with their future and the future of all the young people of the Province. Few areas are of greater significance to a regional Government, therefore I urge the House to support the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved:
That this Assembly takes note of the report from the Committee for Employment and Learning ‘Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry’.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair)
‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’
John (Speaker, Belfast East)
Order. The next 11 motions relate to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’. They are all on similar subjects, and I propose, therefore, to conduct one debate on all of them. I shall ask the Clerk to read the first motion, and then I will call on the Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, who has a problem with his voice today. I hope that he will be able to manage; perhaps Mr Beggs will give some assistance. The debate that will then take place will be on all 11 motions, and I shall call the Chairperson or Deputy Chairperson to make a winding-up speech, if necessary.
I will put the Question on the first motion. I will then have the Clerk read all the motions that are relevant and ask that those Questions be put en bloc. I see no purpose in going through all of them seriatim, unless a Member objects. If a Member objects, we will take the vote on that particular motion separately.
Motion made:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 3 and insert
"The guide is divided into four sections dealing with (1) Registration of Interests (paragraphs 8 to 37); (2) Declaration of Interests (paragraphs 38 to 53); (3) the Advocacy Rule (paragraphs 54 to 64); and (4) Procedure for Complaints (paragraphs 65 to 74)." — [The Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges.]
Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)
I am pleased to support the motion to amend the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’, which was initially approved by the Assembly on 14 December 1999.
The Standards and Privileges Committee completed an inquiry into the possible appointment of an Assembly commissioner for standards. The Committee report was considered and approved unanimously by the Assembly on 2 April 2001. As a result of recommendations contained in the report, several changes to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ are required. The motions in the Order Paper reflect the necessary amendments. Some additional changes are required because of inaccuracies or omissions in the current guide.
The first motion proposes the deletion of paragraph 3 of the guide and the insertion of the suggested wording. That change will take into account the additional paragraphs 73 and 74 to the guide. The remaining motions propose the deletion of other specified paragraphs of the guide and the insertion of the wording given in the Order Paper. Paragraph 10 will be amended to take account of the provisions of section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, which permits the Secretary of State to
"make provision for the filling of vacancies occuring in the Assembly’s membership".
Paragraph 33 will be amended to include the word "influence", which was omitted from the original guide, thus extending its coverage. Paragraph 67 will be amended to provide clarification of privilege as it relates to complaints against Members.
Paragraph 68 will be amended to provide for all complaints to be referred to the commissioner for standards, in accordance with one of the recommendations in the Committee’s report. The amendments to paragraphs 69 and 70 reflect two of the recommendations in the Committee’s report about reporting arrangements between the commissioner and the Committee.
The amendment to paragraph 71 reflects one of the recommendations in the Committee’s report about the procedures involved in the Committee’s reporting to the Assembly. The amendment to paragraph 72 reflects one of the recommendations of the Committee’s report. Standing Orders empower the Committee on Standards and Privileges to recommend sanctions against Members, but the Assembly will still have the final say.
Finally, paragraphs 73 and 74 have been renumbered. There is no change to their substance.
All these amendments reflect some of the provisions of the Committee’s report on the appointment of an Assembly commissioner for standards, which was endorsed by this House in April this year. I commend the amendments to the House, and I ask Members to support the motion.
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 3 and insert:
"The guide is divided into four sections dealing with (1) Registration of Interests (paragraphs 8 to 37); (2) Declaration of Interests (paragraphs 38 to 53); (3) the Advocacy Rule (paragraphs 54 to 64); and (4) Procedure for Complaints (paragraphs 65 to 74)."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 10 and insert:
"After an election to the Assembly, Members are required to complete a registration form and submit it to the Clerk of Standards within three months of taking their seats in accordance with Standing Orders. For Members returned at a by-election the time limit is also three months from the date on which they take their seats. Members taking their seats in accordance with section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 must also complete a registration form within three months of taking their seats. After the initial publication of the Register, (or, in the case of Members returned at by-elections or in accordance with section 35 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, after their initial registration) it is the responsibility of Members to notify changes in their registrable interests within four weeks of each change occurring."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 33 and insert:
"Members are required to register unremunerated directorships, eg directorships of charitable trusts, professional bodies, learned societies or sporting or artistic organisations, where such a body might directly benefit from public funds or from a decision taken by the Northern Ireland Assembly. Where a Member considers that an unremunerated interest, other than a directorship, which the Member holds might be thought by others to influence his or her actions in a similar manner to a remunerated interest, such an interest should be registered here."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 67 and insert:
"Communications between a Member of the Assembly and the Clerk of Standards and between a member of the public and the Clerk of Standards are not covered by Assembly privilege under section 50 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 nor are they privileged at law. However, should the Commissioner for Standards decide to investigate a complaint, that investigation is privileged. Once the Commissioner reports his findings to the Committee, the proceedings of the Committee in relation to the report are privileged. The privilege attaching to an investigation by the Commissioner and the related proceedings of the Committee do not extend to include allegations made in the original complaint."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 68 and insert:
"All complaints submitted to the Clerk of Standards will be referred by him to the Commissioner for Standards for initial and, if appropriate, detailed investigation. The receipt of a complaint by the Clerk of Standards or the Committee on Standards and Privileges is not to be interpreted as an indication that a prima facie case has been established."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 69 and insert:
"When the Commissioner considers a complaint and concludes that no further investigation is necessary, he will report accordingly to the Committee through the Clerk of Standards."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 70 and insert:
"On completion of a detailed investigation into a complaint against a Member, the Commissioner shall submit a report to the Committee on Standards and Privileges."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 71 and insert:
"If the Committee on Standards and Privileges decides to adopt the findings and conclusions of a detailed report, as mentioned in paragraph 70, that report shall be submitted to the Assembly as part of a report of the Committee on Standards and Privileges."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: delete paragraph 72 and insert:
"Where the report submitted to the Assembly in accordance with paragraph 71 deals with any matter mentioned in paragraphs 8 to 64 of this guide, it may contain a recommendation that the Member be excluded from proceedings of the Assembly for a specified period and have his/her rights and privileges as a Member withdrawn for that period."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: insert new paragraph 73:
"The Committee on Standards and Privileges has power under Standing Orders to send for persons, papers and records, to order the attendance of any Member before it and to require that specific documents in the possession of a Member relating to its inquiries or to the inquiries of the Commissioner for Standards be laid before it."
Resolved:
That the following amendment to the ‘Guide to the Rules Relating to the Conduct of Members’ be made: insert new paragraph 74:
"While it will be usual for the Committee on Standards and Privileges to deliberate in private, the Committee determines for itself whether sessions at which evidence is to be taken shall be held publicly or in private and is empowered to refuse leave for the broadcasting of any public sessions."
The sitting was suspended at 2.18 pm.
On resuming (Mr Speaker in the Chair) —