Northern Ireland Assembly, 1 March 2011

485 contributions from 59 members. The official report.

Ministerial Statement

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I have received notice from the Minister for Social Development that he wishes to make a statement to the House.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

In compliance with the requirements of section 52C of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and of Standing Order 18, I wish to report on the second meeting of the British-Irish Council (BIC) housing work stream, which was held in St Mary’s University College on the Falls Road in Belfast on 16 February. The report has been agreed by, and is being made on behalf of, junior Minister Robin Newton MLA, who accompanied me at the meeting.

Before I get into the body of the report, I want to make some overarching comments. As Members know, sometimes in politics it is difficult to see the wood for the trees when trying to identify the big strategic issues beyond the details and vagaries of political life. What I found useful about the British-Irish Council meeting in housing sectoral format was that, when politicians at a ministerial or equivalent level were brought into the room to interrogate and bear down on the particular issue of housing, the fog began to clear.

I found that, in conversation at a political level, when the democratic interest is properly asserted, one can bear down and get conclusions that are very useful in terms of shared practice and common interest going forward. That was very clear in the meeting. Although we came from a diversity of jurisdictions, the common interest in housing — housing finance, housing models and housing need — was crystal clear.

That is a further reason I felt the meeting to be very important. It all arises from the initiative of Margaret Ritchie, as it was she who identified the gap in the institutional structures that suggested to her that the British-Irish Council could usefully bear down on housing issues. The report from Robin Newton and me indicates, and the work of the sector confirms, that her judgement was timely and appropriate in beginning to scope how we move forward on the issues. I am the sweeper in the Department, taking forward the legacy of Margaret Ritchie, and that was true of the BIC housing sectoral meeting last month.

At its summit in Cardiff in February 2009, the British-Irish Council identified housing as a new work stream. The fact that Margaret Ritchie was asked to lead that work was indicative not just of her personal commitment to the issue but of the fact that the Northern Ireland housing sector and the Department were ahead of the game in best practice in housing developments in the jurisdiction of the BIC. For those reasons, Margaret Ritchie was asked to take the matter forward.

The first ministerial work stream was held in the Slieve Donard Hotel in Newcastle in December 2009, and I hosted the second ministerial meeting, at which all eight jurisdictions were represented. The British Government were represented by Neil McDonald, who is the director of housing standards, homelessness and support at the Department for Communities and Local Government. The relevant Minister was unable to attend as there was a three-line whip in Westminster — in the Commons and the Lords — on legislation that was proceeding at the time.

The Irish Government were represented by Michael Finneran TD, the then Minister of State with responsibility for housing and local services. Given the various demands on Ministers in the South, including electoral demands, it was important that the Minister from the South was there. He made a substantial contribution to the meeting. I congratulate all the parties that performed successfully in the recent election in the South and commiserate with many good TDs who no longer represent their constituency in the Dáil. Many good men and women are no longer fulfilling that role.

The Scottish Government were represented by Alex Neil MSP, the Minister for Housing and Communities. As we will hear, his contribution was particularly timely. I had a long meeting with him in January when we scoped how we might proceed over the next five, 10 or 15 years, including considering housing models and housing financial options. Alex Neil spoke to those issues usefully and in some detail at the meeting.

The Welsh Assembly Government were represented by Judith Askew, a senior housing official, and the Jersey Government by Carl Mavity, also a senior housing official. His Housing Minister could not attend because he had been elected Housing Minister only the day before. The Guernsey Government were represented Graham Guille, the Deputy Minister for Housing, and the Isle of Man Government were represented by the Hon Martyn Quayle MHK, Minister of Social Care. Junior Minister Robin Newton and I co-chaired the meeting; together we represented the Northern Ireland Executive.

During the day, we considered papers on three areas of work and received two short presentations from the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. The first paper sought to identify new forms of investment for affordable housing. Ministers agreed that, given the very challenging budgetary position that each of us faces, it was important to find new ways of financing our work. The paper that Alex Neil presented on behalf of the Scottish Government identified alternative financial opportunities that we will explore further. I am sure that I will be asked questions about those opportunities.

The second paper, which was presented on behalf of the British Government, looked at the issue of mobility in social housing. Evidence suggests that finding suitable social housing can be a problem where tenants move from one area to another. Details of the proposed house swap scheme were shared, and Ministers agreed in principle that that is an area that each Administration should explore further. However, we noted that there were regulatory and legislative issues associated with such transfer of tenancy. Indeed, some Administrations attach specific residency conditions to social housing provision in their jurisdiction.

Notwithstanding those issues, Ministers were supportive of any plans that could increase the social mobility of those in public housing, and work will begin to scope out areas in which that could be done on a voluntary basis.

The third paper looked at the possibility of including social clauses in government contracts. I introduced that paper, as I insisted that spending in my own Department must include conditions to provide work placements and, ultimately, apprenticeships for the long-term unemployed. I confirmed to ministerial colleagues that the initiative under way in my Department was brought forward unilaterally by me on 1 January 2011. In 2009-2010, government spending here among Departments, agencies, and non departmental public bodies accounted for more than £2·3 billion. I firmly believe that such spend can be used more constructively to provide real opportunities for those who are out of work. Details of that unemployed clause were discussed, and Ministers agreed that the introduction of such a clause would assist in providing the long-term unemployed with much needed skills that will help them to find suitable employment in the future.

Plans are also in place to introduce additional clauses on a phased basis for apprenticeships and student placements, and I updated Ministers on that. I also instructed officials to scope out how the social clause provisions could apply to supplies and services. At all times, the threshold at which a social clause will kick-in in the Department for Social Development (DSD) is much lower than the threshold in other Departments. That is done in an effort to ensure that the maximum number of people get work opportunities through DSD’s spending on newbuilds and regeneration. No doubt, I will be asked about that subsequently, and I will be pleased to give Members much more detail.

Two presentations were made by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. The first was entitled ‘Housing: A West Belfast Context’, and the second was on retro-fitting. The first presentation gave a context to our meeting by showcasing how good housing can be a catalyst for regenerating communities and providing the building blocks to lift them out of poverty and deprivation. As we had many visitors and the meeting was in the heart of the West Belfast constituency on the Falls Road, I thought that it was appropriate to give an overview at the start of the meeting of where housing had travelled over the past 40 years in the entire constituency, from the Shankill to Twinbrook.

The second presentation on retro-fitting and energy efficiency looked at the challenges of adapting existing homes to make them more energy efficient. A passive house project from Newry was showcased in the presentation, and it provided Ministers with an opportunity to see how older housing can be repaired, improved and retained to modern standards of thermal comfort and sustainability. Housing stock and energy efficiency and how they relate to fuel poverty in Northern Ireland and across Britain occupied a great deal of the attention of those who were present.

Ministers agreed that the issue presented challenges and opportunities for their respective jurisdictions, particularly in the current economic climate. Officials will continue to share good practice as we take forward the actions that were agreed at our meeting last week. I have made the minutes from our first meeting in December 2009, together with a communiqué from our meeting last week, available to Members to see the range of issues that are being taken forward on their behalf.

We considered the meeting to be particularly useful. The exchange on housing need, models and funding is work that can be usefully developed in the future, and officials have been asked to gather and share information, including best or innovative practice, to inform how each jurisdiction plans for the future. It is anticipated that the sector will return quickly to the issue.

Before concluding, I want to acknowledge the president of St Mary’s University College on the Falls Road, Professor Peter Finn, and his staff, including the harpist and those who prepared the Irish stew and wheaten bread. They were very good hosts. Given that the meeting dealt with housing, I deliberately took it away from a hotel into a community with historic and current housing needs. I congratulate all those in St Mary’s and my own officials, who worked hard to put together a very productive day.

New ways of doing housing that at all times firmly embed the principle of community benefit are essential. Perhaps somewhat to my surprise, the BIC housing sector can be important in achieving that objective.

We concluded that the good models and good practice that were discussed during the meeting should be collated by officials and shared among officials and Ministers in the next two or three months. The issue of housing sector reform, housing financial models, housing generally and housing need in particular will preoccupy the Assembly in the next mandate. It will preoccupy all the jurisdictions in all their mandates, and the BIC will be critical in all that work.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his statement and for the additional information that he provided to the House. I wholly support the comments that he made at the outset. I think that we all agree that the sharing of ideas across various jurisdictions in the British Isles on the complex issue of housing can only be to our mutual benefit.

The first paper presented at the meeting was on new forms of investment for affordable housing. The Minister will know that I have a very close interest in that issue. Will he give more detail on the types of models that were discussed? In these very difficult economic times enforced on us by Tory cuts, is there scope not just for us — in his belief — in Northern Ireland to seek out new ways of funding housing development, but also working on a collaborative basis with our partners in the British Isles to do something more?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his contribution. He touches on a vital point. The issue of housing need and housing finance is going to preoccupy and challenge us politically and operationally. Because of the setting up of the BIC housing sector, the leadership of Margaret Ritchie and the work of all the other Ministers responsible for housing, housing associations have been able to access additional sources of funding from the Housing Finance Corporation, the bond market and the European Investment Bank (EIB). The European Investment Bank has made £345 million available to housing associations, and the bond market has made available over £70 million. Of that, £30 million of the EIB money and £21 million of the bond money has come to Northern Ireland housing associations.

Already the BIC housing sector, and Margaret Ritchie’s input in particular, has demonstrated that one can draw down other sources of funding at lower interest rates in an effort to subsidise the public and affordable housing sector and maximise newbuild. That model — the bond market and the EIB — clearly needs to move forward. However, as the Member said, we need to stretch ourselves in scoping out other potential opportunities.

Beyond EIB and the bond market, the matter of what might be available in terms of pension funds making money available to the housing sector is going forward. The Scottish Government is scoping out a large number of pilot schemes to identify alternative funding opportunities and different tenure approaches modelled to suit local market conditions in the Scottish jurisdiction. We will interrogate those models, as will all the jurisdictions, to see whether anything appropriate comes across.

My view is that we do not exclude any possibilities and that we exhaust all possibilities, but we caution ourselves. My sense is that there are some predatory instincts that think that there is easy money to be made off housing stock in the short term, and I caution against that. Yes, we must exhaustively look at all funding options. However, we must not be casual, opportunistic or short-sighted in looking at those options and thinking that, just because the Housing Executive has 90,000 units, there is easy and quick money to be had to fund newbuild.

Subject to that caveat, and to the principle that it falls to government to be responsible for the provision of public and social housing, we need to get to the bottom of the models developed over the past couple of years and other alternative finance models, and where there are reasonable opportunities, exploit them.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.

I also welcome the Minister’s statement and that he took the event from a hotel in a leafy suburb into a working class community. Those are all good signals to send to the people living in the area. The areas surrounding that location have some of the worst social deprivation but also contain some of the better social housing that has been built —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Do I detect a question somewhere?

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I am sorry; I lost the run of myself.

The Minister mentioned social clauses. I remember a debate a number of months ago in which someone from the Welsh Assembly said that the Welsh Assembly Government had successfully used social clauses in social housing. Has the Minister set any time limits for when the objective of obtaining jobs and apprentice­ships through social clauses can be met?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

It was not the case that I removed the meeting from a hotel in a leafy suburb. The proposed location was a hotel in the heart of east Belfast, rather than in a leafy suburb. Nonetheless I thought that a non-hotel venue, and one in west Belfast, was appropriate.

The issue of social clauses is not speculation; it is already in place. From 1 January, housing associations must have the new social clause in place for newbuilds. In addition, regeneration contracts, through the urban side of DSD, must also have it in place. The consequence is that for every £500,000 spent on labour, a contractor is obliged to employ a long-term unemployed person for 26 weeks, or two long-term unemployed people for 13 weeks. So, this is not a matter of speculation; it is something that I instructed the Department to put in place late last year and it became live on 1 January.

The Member might be interested to know that, if he were to visit the newbuild by Clanmil Housing on the Bass (Ireland) site on the Glen Road, he would see that the new social clause is in place there. Clanmil Housing is applying it on a voluntary basis, because contracts were signed before 1 January. However, I hope that all other organisations will follow the lead given by Clanmil Housing and adopt a social clause voluntarily in contracts that are already live.

The social clause went live on 1 January 2011 on the newbuild and regeneration sides and is a requirement in contracts since then. However, it is only a requirement in contracts at that threshold under the DSD. I want to acknowledge the assistance of the Construction Employers Federation, and that of Ministers Empey and Kennedy, in making those schemes available. People are coming from the register and are being employed under various Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) schemes.

Across the rest of government, and under every other Department, the old thresholds are still in place; namely that the main contractor has to employ one long-term unemployed person for each £5 million of project value, and one apprentice for each £2 million of project value. My view is that those thresholds are far too high. So, last autumn I brought in officials and began to interrogate them, if that is not too immoderate a word, on how we could lower the thresholds.

I was told that we could not get it down lower, until, one day, my deputy secretary said to me that he thought we had found the nugget. When you interrogate officials about what has been the prevailing rule and say that you want a different rule, consistent with evidence and good process, you can get things over the line. That is why today I am writing to all my ministerial colleagues, saying that, in my view, the social clauses provision, which is different in DSD from that in any other Department, should be deployed in every other Department.

For every £500,000 of labour spend, we are obliged to employ somebody who is long-term unemployed. I think that we should go further. I instructed officials to tell the Housing Executive that, as with the new maintenance contracts, which will be awarded, as Members know, in late autumn, given that I suspended the process a number of weeks ago, future Egan contracts must contain similar social clauses. The Housing Executive has agreed to that. I also instructed officials to identify how we will deploy social clauses for supplies and services in the Department. That is a bit difficult, because a lot of supplies and services are provided under government frameworks and are not going to fall to DSD. Nonetheless, I asked my officials to identify how we can do that.

The bottom line is that, if the social clause provision in DSD were to be deployed across government, upwards of 1,850 people over four years would have the opportunity for work. That is not many, compared with the scale of our unemployment figures, but, having upwards of 2,000 people in work during the lifetime of the next Assembly as a result of government spend seems to me self-evidently the way to go. I hope that other Ministers will go there with me.

Mary Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I congratulate the Minister on his leadership of the British-Irish Council, and, indeed, that of his predecessor, and for introducing social clauses into public procurement. What does he think is the full potential for social clauses, if introduced by all Departments? Has he had any discussions with the Finance Minister or any other Minister?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

My permanent secretary raised —

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I am sure you were surprised at that question.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I was shocked, not just surprised. I was overwhelmed and impressed. I did not write it myself. That last bit is true.

I instructed my permanent secretary to raise the model that we have now adopted with the Central Procurement Directorate. I have some serious issues with government procurement in general, which I raised at Executive level. I asked that we have a review of procurement going forward, because there are issues around, not just social clauses, but procurement generally and, in particular, about how procurement can be legitimately modelled to favour small indigenous and small to medium-sized indigenous employers and organisations. We can, quite legitimately, consistent with European procurement rules, remodel procurement in Northern Ireland in order to advantage, quite properly, the small and medium-sized enterprises (SME) sector.

My permanent secretary raised the issue with the Central Procurement Directorate, from which some of the more radical advice was forthcoming. However, when I was initially told that we could not go in that direction, one or two officials on the procurement side, somewhat to my surprise, said that I could go further. The social clauses initiative came out of that process. As I said earlier, I will be writing to all my ministerial colleagues today, telling them that the model is a live one, it is a start, not an end, and that everybody should follow in that direction.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I welcome the Minister’s comprehensive statement and report of the British-Irish Council meeting. It seems that there is a lot of interest in social clauses in government contracts. Have any of the other jurisdictions represented at the meeting introduced similar social clause initiatives?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

It is fair to say that the model that DSD now has is a more advanced one, in respect of not just our own Government but other Governments. Yes, social clauses are part of the picture as regards contractual requirements in other jurisdictions. However, my sense from other Ministers is that Northern Ireland — or, least, DSD in Northern Ireland — is ahead of the game. They all agreed that the principle of embedding social clauses in procurement and scoping social clauses as far and as wide as possible is the way to go in respect of not just newbuild projects and regeneration but consultancy.

There is no reason why we cannot work up a model that escalates what DSD has done and extends it beyond those who are long-term unemployed to include graduates who are out of work and apprentices who are not able to fulfil their apprenticeship. Whether it is newbuild, services, supplies, consultancy, human resources or finance, social clauses — in respect of the unemployed and/or apprentices and/or graduates — should be part of this Government’s narrative going forward. We in DSD have taken some useful steps, but we have not finished our journey. I hope that everyone will go down that path.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement. There is great value in representatives from across the UK and the Irish Republic meeting in this way. I am interested in a number of issues that were dealt with at the meeting. One issue that was raised is mobility in social housing, which can be a problem. Can the Minister provide any more detail on how he intends to further explore the home swap scheme in Northern Ireland?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for that question. As I said, there was useful discussion on social mobility.

As the Member is probably aware, the London Government have various views on social mobility, some of which I do not necessarily agree with. An example of social mobility that I would not advocate anywhere in these islands is the notion of managing and capping housing benefit, which, in London, for instance, forces people to live beyond greater London. Due to the pressures that are put on people in respect of their housing budget, they are obliged to move out of some­where where they may have lived for generations or for a long period and go outside greater London to find affordable housing. We need to be careful about social mobility.

Secondly, we must acknowledge that it is a voluntary thing. To be fair, the representative of the London Government — the director of housing standards, Mr McDonald — said that it was a voluntary approach. People should not be required, through financial pressures or any other mechanism, to move from one part of the country to another part. It has to be voluntary.

Thirdly, we have to acknowledge that Northern Ireland might be a little different. Given the history of this part of the world and the fact that people in Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland have tended to live in single identity areas, through no fault of their own but as a consequence of conflict, social upheaval and all the other factors with which we are all too familiar. We have to be mindful that social mobility models, which we should exploit and explore, need to be fit for purpose when it comes to one or other jurisdiction. That is certainly the case in respect of Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland.

Fourthly, officials are gathering information on social mobility models. There are house swap schemes, but they seem to be somewhat fragmented. They seem to be web-based, fragmented and not co-ordinated. If there are opportunities for people to move from one part of the city to a different part of the city or from one part of the country to a different part of the country, those opportunities do not seem to have been developed in a very cohesive way. As I recall — I am subject to correction — officials are collating all the house swap models and opportunities, in order to identify whether that approach can be explored and developed further. There is no doubt that that model would have some role to play if it could create better housing opportunities either through people downsizing to free up a larger property or moving from one part of the country to another for reasons of personal choice, employment or other good grounds. We shall certainly explore and exploit that. However, we are mindful that local jurisdictions would have to model that to suit their circumstances.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. I understand that social clauses were successfully introduced in Wales. The Minister mentioned that a Passive House project in Newry was showcased, and that is a welcome and innovative project. An energy efficiency audit was also done in the same area. Based on the projected success of the Passive House project, is there an intention to extend that even further?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. I confirm that a retrofitting scheme involving a block of five houses in Newry will take place. One of the properties will be a Passive House development, and the other four will be upgraded to various energy efficiency standards. Arising from that exercise will be a robust analysis of the energy efficiency advantage and the cost consequences. It is only when we have a sufficient evidence base on the value of energy efficiency interventions and on the cost comparisons with other energy interventions that we will be able to draw a conclusion about whether that model can be rolled out. This is the first time that that will be done in Northern Ireland. Clearly, it would be easier to do it with newbuilds than existing stock; however, using existing stock will enable us to gain some useful learning that will determine whether we should take the model further.

The principle behind this is that we should bear down on the three causes of fuel poverty in Northern Ireland: low income; high energy costs; and poor energy efficiency. It has previously been the case that government tended to concentrate on the latter, and we should continue to concentrate on that. However, following representations from various Members, I confirm that the budget for the warm homes scheme will be increased over each of the next four years in recognition of the fact that the problems of energy efficiency and fuel poverty are acute and growing. If there is some learning to be gained from that model, I have no doubt that the future Minister for Social Development will try to apply that positively.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am interested in the work being carried out by the Scottish Government on alternative financing opportunities for housing. Does the Minister wish to outline or expand on some of those ideas? That matter is of great interest to the House.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for that. The Scottish Government have made some useful interventions and innovations. However, the Northern Ireland Government still have work to do on financing options that we need to get over the line. Since July 2010, I have been trying to get a consultation on developer contributions out the door. Without prejudice to what model might be used and when that might be deployed, given the economic circumstances of Northern Ireland, the issue of developer contributions needs to be addressed now. Similarly, I am awaiting a PWC report on a leasing model. That model will provide an opportunity to explore alternative financial models that are very consistent with what the Scottish Government are doing.

In summary, the Scottish Government are throwing the net very wide, just as we did during the years of Margaret Ritchie’s leadership of the Department, and trying to turn over as many stones as possible to see whether any models of tenure or funding are appropriate. The scale of what they are suggesting is that they have 22 pilot schemes, 11 of which are already live and 11 of which they intend to roll out. Working with local councils, housing associations and the private sector, they scope out ways of financing housing with various tenures with government, state and non-state assistance. Interestingly, they are trying to identify what models work best, whether particular innovative models will work in an urban or rural location and new ways to work with the private sector in bringing forward funding. We will see where all that goes. However, it is my sense that Alex Neil is one of the more innovative and thoughtful Ministers I have come across, and the Scottish Government are engaged in a very interesting project.

A lot of that work is paralleled by the work of DSD. We now have three procurement groups for housing associations, which, through all their activities, are meant to procure collectively. That is work in progress that will drive down costs and make housing associations much more efficient in their internal costs and building costs. The fact that we are now building a third of our properties on government land drives down cost. The fact that Margaret Ritchie launched an initiative to draw down money from the bond market and the European Investment Bank is also an example of that. Margaret Ritchie reduced the level of housing association grant going to housing associations, and we will push that further over the next short while. When it comes to innovation in the housing sector, all that work demonstrates that DSD is the co-leader with Scotland, if not ahead of it, in that business.

Pól Callaghan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle Conallach. I thank the Minister for his statement. He mentioned details of the proposed home swap scheme. He and other Members will be aware that much of the movement in social housing at the minute is not necessarily a matter of choice but is driven by economic factors, such as joblessness, family and other factors. Will the Minister expand on what cross-jurisdictional dimensions there may be to any proposals that are afloat at the minute around the home swap scheme, such as people having to move from the North to other parts of the island, to the neighbouring island or back home again? Furthermore, given the devastation of the capital housing budget, will the Minister tell us what efforts are being made to expand on the high performance of himself and his predecessor in developing the number of newbuilds that are available for anyone who wants to come back here?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I ask the Member to finish his question.

Pól Callaghan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I had nearly finished, Mr Speaker. That was the end of my question.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for that question. That was not in the script. I genuinely mean that. Therefore, I may struggle to answer the first part of it. However, I certainly agree with the second part of the question.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Can you remember it?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

Yes.

On a daily basis, it preoccupies me that under the draft Budget, whatever way it is cut or shaped, DSD, in going forward, will be fortunate to build 1,200 or 1,300 houses a year. The Housing Executive, on good authority, confirms that there is a need for 2,500 houses a year, in the context that Margaret Ritchie was able to get more than 1,800 newbuild starts over the line last year, a figure that may well be exceeded this year. That is all happening in an environment in which we are going to have increasing housing stress and need going forward. That does not work. It is inconceivable that we should build 1,300 houses when the demand is 2,500 and will increase as people lose their home, which is what is happening.

People in Ardoyne have, over the past number of days and at the weekend, received letters from their bank saying that orders for possession were now going to be enforced through the Enforcement of Judgments Office. I know that because people from Ardoyne talked to me yesterday and, in passing, mentioned that a significant number of families received those letters over the weekend, including the sister of one of the people who was in to see me. As I understand it, the banks have been sitting on orders for repossession granted by the High Court and not moving to enforce them because of the economic circumstances. However, the high street lenders and sub-prime lenders have now decided to enforce those judgements because they need to get the capital. Even though house prices continue to decline in Northern Ireland, unlike in other parts of these islands, high street lenders and sub-prime lenders have decided to go in that direction. The consequence is that mortgage stress, mortgage debt and the loss of homes will increase.

In that context — never mind all the other factors that I have outlined — how can we reduce newbuild by at least one third compared with recent years when we need to build more than in recent years? It does not add up. It will be measured in family stress and human misery. That matter needs to be corrected in the draft Budget, and mechanisms need to be put in place to correct it over the next four years. I continue to discuss that matter with the Minister of Finance and Personnel; I did so yesterday afternoon. I hope that, some way or other and without prejudice to the view that I may take on the draft Budget, those matters can become more fully acknowledged and recognised in the Budget.

The Member asked about interjurisdictional opportunities in the house swap scheme. That is a very interesting point that we did not touch on at the BIC. House swap schemes clearly work that way in Britain, but I am not aware of how the schemes work between the jurisdictions in Britain and Northern Ireland or, even more particularly, how they work on this island. The Dublin Government have a model house swap. I think that Minister Finneran referred to that at the meeting, although I stand to be corrected. How it might work on the island of Ireland never mind between the islands is something that we did not touch on in any great detail. Given mobility on this island and given family and other ties in these islands, it could govern how house swap schemes might work in future. I will ask officials to raise that with officials from the other jurisdictions and identify whether there is something further that we can work up.

Executive Committee Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I call on the Minister for Social Development to move the Further Consideration Stage of the Housing (Amendment) Bill.

Moved. — [The Minister for Social Development (Mr Attwood).]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As no amendments have been tabled, there is no opportunity to discuss the Housing (Amendment) Bill today. Members will be able to have a full debate at Final Stage. Further Consideration Stage is, therefore, concluded. The Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I call on the Minister of the Environment to move the Further Consideration Stage of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill.

Moved. — [The Minister of the Environment (Mr Poots).]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As no amendments have been tabled, there is no opportunity to discuss the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill today. Members will be able to have a full debate at Final Stage. Further Consideration Stage is, therefore, concluded. The Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I beg to move

That the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill [NIA 5/09] do now pass.

I do not intend to outline in detail the clauses of the Bill. Instead, I simply remind Members that its purpose is to ensure better conservation and protection of Northern Ireland’s valuable wildlife and habitats, which will ensure that they remain diverse, healthy and resilient so that we and future generations can derive important benefits from them. As well as benefiting Northern Ireland’s environment, those are important steps towards ensuring that we meet our national and international obligations.

The Bill also changes some existing legislation. Changes to the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985 will give it greater scope to meet current and future challenges and will provide added protection to a wider range of birds, plants and animals. The Bill includes important provisions aimed at deterring wildlife crime, including providing greater evidence-gathering powers for police and, for the first time, the powers for courts to impose custodial sentences for severe and persistent wildlife crime. The Bill also makes important changes to the Environment (Northern Ireland) Order 2002 to enhance protection for our areas of special scientific interest, many of which contain our highest value habitats, species and other special features.

Although hare coursing was not part of the original proposals, as a result of the Assembly process, the Bill will ban hare coursing. The Bill also makes important changes to our game laws. For example, we will abolish antiquated systems for licensing the hunting of game that date back to the nineteenth century. I firmly believe that the Bill achieves a balanced approach from the viewpoints of conservation and country sports.

The Bill was introduced on 30 November 2009 and completed its comprehensive scrutiny in Committee on 15 April 2010. I thank the Committee for its detailed scrutiny of the Bill. The recommendations in the Committee’s report led to positive amendments at Consideration Stage. I also thank Members for their helpful contributions in debates on the Bill throughout its passage. The Bill is testament to the positive Assembly process and to the importance that we in Northern Ireland place on ensuring the welfare of our environment. The conviction with which Members spoke on both sides of the issues reflects their continuing dedication to making that happen. I appreciate that not everyone achieved everything that they sought from the Bill. However, I believe that, overall, it provides a sound, balanced and practical approach for the future.

In summary, the Bill will have a positive and practical impact on the conservation and protection of our wildlife and natural habitats, which are vital to our well-being. It provides the authorities with the responsibility for and suitable powers to enforce the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985. The Bill also provides an appropriate level of deterrent to those involved in wildlife crime. I commend the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill to the House.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Final Stage of the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill — at last. It is evident from the Committee’s consideration of the legislation that there are not many issues on which opinions are more tightly held than those related to the management of wildlife and the natural environment. Therefore, it was extremely important that the Committee closely scrutinised this legislation and dealt in facts to underpin its objective consideration and that prejudice and bias were not introduced to our discussions. I believe that the Committee achieved the right balance in its approach.

The key issues ranged from those related to animal, bird and plant species, through the definition of terms to the discharge of firearms — a wide range of issues indeed. It was necessary to consider all those issues in the round to produce coherent, up-to-date and workable legislation. The Committee, in collaboration with the Department and taking into account the views of stakeholders, did just that.

The Committee published its report on the Bill almost a year ago. Anyone who has read that report will have seen that the Committee made a number of recommendations to the Department. To its credit, the Department reacted positively to the majority of those recommendations. In respect of others, it provided clarification that the Committee considered and ultimately accepted.

A range of organisations responded to the Committee’s call for evidence. Through their written and oral submissions, the Committee was informed on key issues, which helped develop the Committee’s thinking on the detail of this legislation. I put on record the Committee’s appreciation of the time and effort taken by those individuals and organisations to contribute to the process. Inevitably, some groups will feel that the legislation does not go far enough, while others may feel that it goes too far. However, many of the issues covered by the Bill are the subject of views that people hold passionately. We were never going to please everyone. In such instances, not pleasing everybody usually signals that we have got the balance about right.

In developing legislation, rather than achieving what we may perceive to be the perfect outcome, compromises often have to be made to achieve something better. I do not think that any legislation passed in the House has been without its critics, and this Bill is no different. Nevertheless, the Bill provides a sound footing for greater emphasis on the maintenance and protection of wildlife and the natural environment. The Bill simply provides a sound footing and an enhanced framework for the duty to maintain and protect wildlife and the natural environment. The real challenge will come with its implementation, enforcement and monitoring. What advances will the Bill bring to wildlife when in operation? What benefits will it bring to our natural environment? That remains to be seen.

It should be said that, with the anticipated budget cuts for the Department of the Environ­ment and, in particular, the Environment Agency, there are concerns that the legislation could turn out to be a paper exercise. The Committee, those who took part in the consultation and I trust that the Minister will endeavour properly to resource the areas of the Department charged with the implementation of the Bill to see that it is properly enforced.

I finish by thanking my colleagues on the Committee for their commitment to their scrutiny role. Occasionally, members do not see eye to eye, but we maintain a dignified and professional approach to our duties and adhere to established procedures to ensure a balanced outcome, hopefully for the good of those who put us here in the first place. Here in the North, many organisations and individuals care deeply about wildlife and the natural environment. The Committee is grateful, therefore, for the insight and opinions given by those who responded to our consultation. I hope that they feel that the legislation does them justice. On behalf of the Committee, I thank departmental officials, the Minister and, in particular, Committee staff for their support throughout the process.

Brian Wilson (Green, North Down)

I welcome the Bill, which is long overdue. It is time that we had an update to the protection of wildlife. As the Chairperson said, perhaps it does not go far enough. Neverthe­less, there is much in the legislation to welcome.

It is important that the Bill will introduce a statutory duty on government and public bodies to take action to conserve biodiversity. In particular, I am pleased with clause 2, which will place a duty on the Department of the Environment to designate and publish a biodiversity strategy, and I welcome the fact that the clause has been strengthened to require the production of a progress report every five years, although we suggested that that should happen every three years.

I welcome the strengthening of controls on the use of snares, particularly the outright ban on the use of self-locking snares to prevent unnecessary suffering. However, in that regard, the Bill does not go far enough. If the Department is serious about preventing unnecessary suffering, the only option is a complete ban on the use of snares. I am more disappointed that the Bill will not give full protection to the Irish hare; nevertheless, clause 38, which will ban hare coursing, is extremely welcome. I have campaigned for that for 40 years, so I am delighted to see that it is finally in legislation.

I also welcome the two new offences that will be created as part of measures to protect areas of special scientific interest, which are an important part of our environmental heritage. Reckless and unnecessary damage to those sites damages the whole community, so it is important that that will now be recognised in legislation. The Bill will increase the powers available to the Department’s wildlife inspectors, and enforcement was one of the main considerations in developing the legislation. However, I am concerned that, if cuts have to be made, the Department may think that it is easier to cut enforcement rather than its general day-to-day business. Therefore, although the legislation will give the Department additional powers, I am concerned about whether, in the longer term, they will be enforced properly.

Nevertheless, with those reservations, I support the Bill, as it will protect —

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

Will the Member give way?

Brian Wilson (Green, North Down)

Yes, sure.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Member for giving way. He highlighted various aspects of the Bill. I may have missed a reference to it, but I am sure that he will join me in welcoming the fact that, when the Bill becomes law, it will also mean that the practice of hare coursing will be made illegal. Everyone in the Chamber should embrace that.

Brian Wilson (Green, North Down)

Very much so. Thank you for the intervention. The Bill will protect biodiversity, enhance conservation and prevent unnecessary suffering of animals. So, I welcome the Bill.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I begin by thanking the officers of the Environment Committee for the enormous amount of work that they put into the Bill. The Bill certainly required in-depth scrutiny, and we got a lot of co-operation from the Department. I am sure the Minister will be pleased that I am praising his Department; I am absolutely genuine about doing so. The report is well worth while and is firm evidence that our local Assembly works.

The environment is, of course, a partnership between different people. We were successful in acknowledging that, while people are very emotive about particular aspects of the environment, there are others, particularly in the rural community, who believe that their way of life has to be protected as well. So, we have achieved a balance. However, much more importantly, we now have in legislation rules and regulations that bind the Department and the public.

I will give an illustration of how diverse the study was. We considered the protection of basking sharks. In recent times, apart from in Australia, there are not too many of them about. However, they do exist and have to be protected. Snakes and the protection of nests also got a mention, as did snares, which, of course, is a very emotive issue. The protection of the Irish hare was given prominence. Not only do we have a report that is good for today, we have one that will be good for a long time to come. It is a worthwhile piece of work that has been carried out by the Environment Committee and taken seriously by all sides. In a sense, it is a genuine partnership of all sides.

All the people who gave evidence were given a fair hearing, and, by and large, they have accepted the need for compromise on many of the issues that all of us hold dear and have views on. Out of that, there is a better understanding of the need for education, which, of course, begins in the home and is carried successfully through our schools and into adult life. Whoever is in the Assembly in the future will inherit legislation that will do the Assembly proud for many years to come.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I welcome the participation of the Members who spoke in the debate today. I note that some people — I am not sure whether they think they are in government or in opposition — did not see fit to turn up today for the debate. Perhaps they can answer for themselves as to why that was the case.

The Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill was long overdue. That is one of the reasons why DOE has driven it forward. My predecessors identified it as an important Bill. The Department of the Environment has put forward one third of all Bills in this Assembly session. We have been vigorous in dealing with issues related to the environment and have been working very hard. I pay tribute to my officials, who have worked on a series of Bills and have been under quite a lot of pressure as a result. However, the Assembly is about delivering for people, and we needed to make important and necessary changes in that area.

The Bill will enhance and help to protect wildlife and habitats. That is absolutely critical. Some people may think that the environment is not very important, but it is very, very important. If we do not have a good environment, it will have major health implications and result in a huge additional cost for Northern Ireland.

Not meeting the obligations set by the European Union will cost the Government in Northern Ireland tens of millions of pounds annually, which will be wasted and paid in fines. I want a system to be set up whereby we can have proper regulation in place to meet the requirements of European Union directives, while not overburdening people with regulation

The Bill has been widely welcomed not only by groups from the environmental side but by groups that engage in country sports. Many people who take part in country sports have an awful lot in common with environmentalists. Those two groups are not diametrically opposed, and, when people get their teeth into the issues, they have lots in common.

As you well know, Mr Speaker, I am a country boy and am proud of the fact that I was raised in the country. I do not care very much where I am, I am proud of my country roots. I can be taken out of the country, but the country will never be taken out of me. As I was taking my breakfast this morning, several hundred starlings landed in my garden. It was a fabulous sight as they took off into the trees and came down again. A couple of days ago, a beautiful cock pheasant arrived in our garden to look for wheat. We have those pheasants because people from neighbouring properties engage in country sports. Pheasants that avoided being shot made their own life, and, as a result of people breeding them, we have the privilege of enjoying those animals.

There is a tremendous opportunity for us in Northern Ireland to look after our environment in a better and more structured manner and in a way that all of us can enjoy from different perspectives. The Bill will make a considerable contribution to that.

I will comment briefly on the enhanced police powers. People who engage in wildlife crime often engage in other types of crime. The gougers with their spades and lurchers who are out badger-baiting are often engaged in other nefarious activities. The police would do well to identify people who engage in wildlife crime and go after them. I suspect that, if they can put them behind bars for those activities, they may find that there is a downturn in other types of crime in the area in which those people live. I have no time for people who engage in badger-baiting, dog fighting or cock fighting, and I am absolutely disgusted and repelled by all of those. I welcome the fact that we have introduced a ban on hare coursing, which Mr Weir mentioned. We should move on from that, and I am glad that Northern Ireland is doing so.

All in all, this is a good news day for Northern Ireland: we have a Bill that can properly manage our wildlife and natural environment. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill [NIA 5/09] do now pass.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

I beg to move

That the Sunbeds Bill [NIA 18/09] do now pass.

I am pleased that this important Bill has reached Final Stage. I introduced it to the Assembly on 11 May 2010, and the subsequent process of discussion and debate has been extremely productive. I thank the Health Committee and other Members for their careful and detailed scrutiny of the Bill, which resulted in various amendments to strengthen its provisions.

I will remind Members of the main purpose and aims of the Bill. Its key aim is to regulate the sunbed industry to reduce the number of cases of skin cancer and deaths from skin cancer caused by sunbed use. The Bill will eliminate, as far as possible, the use of sunbeds by children and young people under 18 years of age. It will also ensure that adults who intend to use sunbeds are more aware of the risks. The measures in the Bill go further than the legislation for Scotland, Wales and England. I have also included provisions on compulsory training, technical standards for sunbeds and the introduction of a licensing or registration scheme.

In Northern Ireland, skin cancer is a serious health issue. It is now the most common form of cancer, accounting for 28% of all individuals diagnosed. Skin cancer cases have increased, and that is linked to greater exposure of the skin to ultraviolet radiation (UVR) through natural sunlight but also through a substantial increase in the use of sunbeds in recent years.

Many UK, European and global public health organisations have expressed concern about the increase in the use of sunbeds, particularly among young people, because of the associated increased risk of skin cancer and other health problems. The other health effects of UVR damage include sunburn, premature ageing, immunosuppression and eye damage. The International Agency for Research on Cancer has designated sunbeds as a category 1 carcinogen. That puts sunbeds in the same category as tobacco. Approximately 400 outlets in Northern Ireland offer sunbed sessions and, in addition, many people rent or buy sunbeds to use in their own home.

A survey of sunbed premises across Northern Ireland revealed a wide variation in operating practices and poor standards among some providers. The survey also showed that only 16% of sunbed operators in Northern Ireland were members of the Sunbed Association. That fact undermined the option of using any form of voluntary self-regulation as a means of protecting public health.

I am encouraged by the consensus that the Bill has enjoyed in the Health Committee and in the House. In addition to the widespread acceptance of the principles of the Bill, there has been detailed and rigorous scrutiny of its clauses. I thank the Chairperson and members of the Health Committee for their extensive and considered evidence-taking, and I thank those who provided written and oral evidence to the Committee. That evidence resulted in helpful suggestions for amendments and a comprehensive report, which was published by the Committee in October 2010. I also thank Members for their valuable input and comments during the Bill’s Assembly stages.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

We seldom pass legislation in this Chamber that we can say with confidence will have saved people’s lives in 10 years’ time. As a result of the legislation that will be passed by this House, I am certain that young people in particular will no longer be exposed to the unlicensed, uncontrolled use of sunbeds. That has to be a good thing.

The whole procedure has been a pleasant experience for the Committee, in the sense that its members, the Minister and the officials worked closely together to produce what, in my opinion, will be some of the strongest legislation controlling sunbeds in western Europe. That has to be a good thing. I also think that it is a good indication of what the Assembly can achieve. There are people out there who are quick to criticise us as simply a talking shop and, sometimes, for wasting time, but I have found this a very interesting procedure and one that has borne fruit.

I welcome the Final Stage of the Bill. It is timely and welcome. Having looked closely at what the Bill has to offer, I am confident that it will take us a significant step forward in protecting our young people against the dangers of sunbeds and providing robust legislation to regulate the use of sunbeds by people over 18 who choose to use them. The Bill will ensure that we have a clear legislative framework within which all sunbed premises will be required to work. Young people in particular are at risk from sunbed sessions. Not only has there been a sharp increase in usage by younger people and older folk, but there is a link between the prevalence of commercial sunbed outlets and deprivation. Indeed, as the Bill has been making its way through the House, I have become much more conscious of the prevalence of sunbed establishments in Northern Ireland. Invariably, one sees them in run-down inner city areas or in parts of our towns beside video stores, hot food takeaways etc, which are clearly linked to areas of deprivation. That is a concern. Here in Northern Ireland, there are too many health issues linked to deprivation, and the Committee is fully supportive of anything that tackles health inequalities.

Young people who use sunbeds endanger their life. Skin cancer is a terrible disease from which to die. Anyone in the Chamber who has had a friend or relative who has died from skin cancer will know exactly what I am talking about. It is dreadful. In Northern Ireland, it is estimated that two or three young people die each year from melanomas directly related to sunbed usage. That is how serious the issue is.

The Bill has been significantly improved and strengthened because of the amendments that the Health Committee persuaded the Department to accept. However, I have to say that the Department did not require too much persuasion; we were pushing at an open door. It was clear that the Department was committed to protecting young people’s health through the legislation. The Committee’s detailed scrutiny led to it recommending to the Department the amendment of 12 of the 20 clauses. Again, I thank the Minister for his co-operation in that regard and for taking on board the Committee’s recommendations. If I were you, Minister, I would bottle that; it does not often happen.

A number of amendments that have been made deserve particular mention because of the importance of the Bill. There was a key amendment to allow for the introduction of licensing. The possibility of a licensing scheme was a major issue that was discussed in Committee. The Bill, as introduced, did not allow for licensing; it allowed for registration only. Initially, the Department believed that there was not enough time to consult and deliberate on that issue. However, the feeling from members and stakeholders was that, without licensing, the Bill would lack teeth. The Committee, therefore, welcomed the amendment that the Minister has made to the Bill to allow for licensing. The amendment provides for licensing to be introduced by secondary legislation under the affirmative procedure at a later date. That will provide a means by which the Department can properly consult on the details of a licensing scheme with those potentially affected by such a scheme before bringing it to the Committee and, hence, to the Assembly for approval.

An amendment was made to clause 1 to introduce the idea of a restricted zone. Enforcement of the Bill will be carried out by local authorities. The Committee received evidence from Belfast City Council and from the Chief Environmental Health Officers Group on the difficulty associated with enforcing clause 1, as originally drafted. Again, we found that there was a high level of co-operation from the local authorities. Our 26 district councils have to license a huge range of establishments, and they did not see the requirement on them to look after businesses that provide sunbeds as a particularly heavy burden. They suggested the introduction of the concept of a restricted zone in premises where sunbeds are in use. Persons under 18 years of age would be prohibited from entering such a restricted zone. The Committee agreed with that position and welcomed the amendment made to that clause.

Amendments relating to the level of fines and fixed penalties were made. Originally, the Bill allowed up to what is known as a level 4 fine, which carries a maximum fine of £2,500. The Committee felt that that was insufficient to act as a deterrent. Therefore, we were pleased that amendments were made to bring the majority of the fines up to what is known as level 5, where the maximum fine is £5,000.

Other important amendments were made in relation to the information that has to be displayed in sunbed premises. For instance, the information to be given to people hiring sunbeds for home use will state that it is illegal for under-18s to use a sunbed. Every sunbed hired must have a sticker advising people of the health risks and stating that it is illegal for people aged under 18 to use it.

The Committee is delighted to see the Bill coming to its Final Stage. It is a vital issue on the public health agenda. I thank the Assembly; it can congratulate itself on getting the legislation onto the statute book before the end of the current mandate.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Sinn Féin welcomes the Final Stage of the Sunbeds Bill. As I said at previous stages, the Committee and the Department have worked together constructively in ensuring that the final result is a Bill that improves public health by highlighting the dangers of sunbeds and providing a robust legislative framework for the use of sunbeds.

The Bill makes sure that there is no ambiguity about the age at which individuals can use a sunbed, what information can be displayed and who can be in the premises or in the restricted zones, as they are now known. Furthermore, as the Chairperson said, there is no ambiguity around the level of fines that will, hopefully, act as a deterrent to those in breach of the legislation. The Committee felt strongly about the fines, and we welcome the fact that the Department has taken that on board.

I welcome the Final Stage of the Bill. It is very relevant legislation that will save lives.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Like others, I welcome the Final Stage of the Sunbeds Bill. As the Chairperson of the Committee said, it has been a pleasant experience, because it has been an example of fine work between the Committee, the Minister and departmental officials. It will certainly give us some of the most robust legislation, and it sends out an important message about the seriousness of the risks to public health associated with sunbeds.

We have worked hard on the legislation as a Committee, scrutinising it and working with the Department to amend parts that we felt needed to be strengthened. With the Department, we found that we were pushing at an open door. It has been beneficial, and we have some of the most robust legislation to deal with the problem.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

The Member probably has the ear of the Minister on many issues, so I ask him to use his influence to drive forward what I see as the final piece of the jigsaw of cancer prevention, which is the display of tobacco products and vending machines. We have now finished the consultation period on that important subordinate legislation, and, having protected young people from sunbeds, as the Bill will clearly do, we must also now protect them from being exposed to the advertising of tobacco products and from the ready access they gain to tobacco through vending machines.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am grateful to the Chairperson of the Committee for that intervention. I am sure that it will not have been lost on the Minister. I know that there was some dissension in the Chairperson’s party on some of those issues but certainly not from him. I know that his commitment to the public health agenda is as strong as my own and that of my party colleague the Minister. We now have robust legislation on sunbeds, and the Assembly and the Minister can take pride in their role in promoting public health, particularly when it comes to the prevention of cancer.

Kieran Deeny (Independent, West Tyrone)

I rise to welcome the Final Stage of the Sunbeds Bill and to repeat what Members have said. It has been a great example of working with the Department. The Bill is very important, and we have been very pleased about the way it has gone through Committee Stage and is now at Final Stage. It is a good example to the public that things can be done that will actually benefit the people of Northern Ireland. As a health professional, I am delighted that the Bill has gone through, and it will save lives.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

I thank those who have contributed today. The progress of the Bill has been greatly assisted by the informed and constructive input in the House and in Committee. The Bill will stop under-18s using, hiring or buying sunbeds; ban unsupervised sunbed premises; warn sunbed users, hirers and buyers about the health risks through signs and documents; stop spurious claims about health benefits; ensure that protective eyewear is worn; ensure that staff are trained; ensure that sunbeds comply with certain standards; and make provision for a registration and licensing scheme to be introduced. Regulations will cover the detail of the registration and licensing scheme; the health information that must be provided; the details of staff training; and the details of sunbed standards.

Mr Wells raised the issue of legislation on tobacco display and vending machines. Like him, I am anxious to bring that forward. Out of courtesy, I took it to the Executive for clearance before consultation, and it sat in the office of the First Minister for month after month. That is the reason it has been delayed. It is a bit like my adoption Bill, which fell for exactly the same reason. However, I assure the Member that legislation to ban tobacco vending machines and displays is moving forward.

The Bill as it stands to be voted on by the Assembly is a clear example of a Minister and a Committee working together successfully, with a shared aim of improving the health of our population. It is important now to make speedy progress with the subordinate legislation that will bring into effect the key provisions of the Bill.

I thank Members who debated the Bill, whether in Committee or in the House, for their helpful contributions, considered advice and constructive approach to this important legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the Sunbeds Bill [NIA 18/09] do now pass.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I beg to move

That the Budget Bill [NIA 11/10] do now pass.

We have had long-into-the-middle-of-the-night discussions and debates on the Bill, and I hope that the lack of attendance in the House today maybe means that we will not get a repeat of the previous two debates. The Final Stage signals the end not only of this financial year but of the Executive’s first Budget 2008-2011.

I do not want to take up too much of the Assembly’s time. The Supply resolutions debate, especially the 10-hour Budget Bill Second Stage debate two weeks ago, thoroughly explored the issues. That debate focused on the draft Budget for 2011-15 rather than on the principles of this Bill. Let me remind Members that we are approving final departmental spending plans for 2010-11 and providing an advance for the first four months of 2011-12 until the Budget of 2011-15 is debated and approved through the subsequent Budget Bill that will be brought before the Assembly. The 2011-12 Budget has already been well and truly kicked around this Chamber in previous debates that, perhaps, went a little beyond what the Bill was about. The Vote on Account is not based on or connected to the Budget for 2011-12 as detailed in the Budget 2011-15.

I want to spend just a few moments looking back on 2010-11. Very often when we read the press or hear some comments on radio phone-in programmes, we would think that the money spent from the public purse in Northern Ireland has had little or no effect on the lives of people in Northern Ireland over the past year. I take the time, at least once a week, to go out and see the impact of some of the spending that we undertake. I want to highlight some of the achievements of the past year.

The year commenced with the devolution of policing and justice and related budgets to the Assembly. The Bill makes provision for the final 2010-11 expenditure plans for the new Department of Justice and the Public Prosecution Service. We were told that the parties in the Assembly could and would never agree to that, yet completing the devolution process and getting the devolution of policing and justice and subsequent budgets for that is one of the achievements.

I want to recall other achievements financed during 2010-11, if not wholly then at least partly by the Budget Bill. More than £230 million was paid out under the common agricultural policy in single farm payments to farmers in December and January. To reduce the potential of disallowance in future years, the land parcel identification system was funded under the Executive’s invest-to-save programme. Hopefully, that should avoid EU fines in future. In addition, £1 million of DARD funding will match funding from BT. That has been invested to deliver increased access to the next generation of broadband services in rural areas.

That will be extremely important in helping small businesses that operate from rural areas with their communications and business plans.

A new fisheries protection vessel was delivered in December to continue the enforcement of the fisheries regulations in the Irish Sea, and a £2·5 million vessel modernisation and selectivity measure of the European Fisheries Fund has opened for applications from local fishing fleets. That will please Mr McNarry and those in his Strangford constituency as well, of course, as the Member from South Down, whose constituency also has fishing fleets. I will give way should Mr McNarry wish to thank me for the money that is being spent in his constituency, and I hope that I will hear no more nonsense about Strangford getting nothing from the Executive.

The construction of the Titanic signature project building, which is expected to attract up to 400,000 visitors a year, is progressing well. The new Public Record Office building in Titanic Quarter has provided much-needed work for the construction industry and is planned to open shortly. Anyone crossing the bridge over the River Lagan cannot fail to be pleased with the progress of the building and its impact on the landscape. I am sure, Mr Speaker, that on your way in each morning, you see the progress being made on the site.

The development of museums continued with the commencement of a £3 million refurbishment of Cultra Manor at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum. In August, the first sod was cut on the site of Northern Ireland’s first 50-metre pool in Bangor, and work commenced on the visitors’ centre at the Giant’s Causeway in November.

In August, the Education Minister announced, as a result of the allocation from the June monitoring round, the commencement of work on 13 new schools and the acquisition of a site for another. In addition, £10 million was identified for the maintenance backlog. All of that is good news for the construction sector, for schools and for the modernisation of the school estate in Northern Ireland. Indeed, I had the joy of attending the opening of new buildings at Grosvenor Grammar School. I lamented the fact that the mobile classroom in which I taught for many a year had disappeared and was probably matchwood somewhere. However, the new school has opened on that site. The new Abbey Christian Brothers’ Grammar School in Newry and the accommodation for St Dominic’s High School in Belfast have been completed this year. The Bill’s provision for education is mainly for the delivery of superb education and youth services.

In the field of further and higher education, funding of more than £250 million was made available to the two universities to cover teaching, learning and research. About £380 million was provided for further education to enhance skills and aid employment, with a view to bolstering the local economic recovery. On that note, DETI and Invest Northern Ireland continue to work proactively with local companies and entrepreneurs to help to minimise the impact of the economic downturn and to seek new foreign direct investment in Northern Ireland. I welcome the recent announcement that the law firm Allen and Overy is to set up an office in Belfast. The SAP UK and Intel Corporation’s unique joint research initiative reflects their confidence in the IT skills available here and the high value that they place on the opportunity to work closely with our universities.

The party on my right has been critical, in the flimsy document that it produced on the Budget, about the ability to deliver some of the high-skill jobs that were promised. However, the projects that I outlined indicate that the Budget’s promise is being delivered on. Many young people now have the opportunity to go to university here before moving on to highly paid jobs for which the rate of pay is well above the average that would normally be available in Northern Ireland. That is part of the economic strategy contained in the four-year Budget to the end of this year.

On the health front, initiatives such as the rolling programme of unannounced hygiene inspections by the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority has resulted in significant improvements in patient care, where improvements were needed, as well as in the valued daily delivery of health and social care across the country.

In 2011, a number of plans came to fruition. A £53 million critical care building was opened at the Ulster Hospital. Lagan Valley Hospital opened two new gold-standard operating theatres and a midwifery-led unit. A new £15·6 million regional child and adolescent mental health inpatient facility opened at Foster Green, while the Bamford Centre for Mental Health and Wellbeing opened at Magee campus. The latest development at Altnagelvin Area Hospital opened in July and will treat cardiac and stroke patients, while the new Enniskillen acute hospital has continued to progress towards completion in the spring of 2012. Just before Christmas, the first sod was cut at the £4·9 million purpose-built neurology unit at Musgrave Park Hospital.

That is only a short list of some of the things that have been done under the Health Service budget. It puts into perspective some of the comments have been made about the Health Service being starved of funds and not having new facilities, new opportunities and new chances to deliver care to people in Northern Ireland. I could have given a much longer list. It is important to inject that into the debate, especially given the very contentious discussion that there has been on the money that is available for the Health Service over the past year.

Do not forget that the debate over what happens to the Health Service budget next year is not new; we have heard some of the same comments for years. However, I have listed some of the new projects that have been facilitated by the budgetary allocations so far this year.

Turning to roads, no matter where we turn in Northern Ireland, we can witness investment in our roads, not to mention the maintenance and treatment of our roads during the winter.

David McNarry (UUP, Strangford)

[Interruption.]

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I have looked around the roads in Strangford and they are no worse than roads elsewhere. Even at the end of this difficult financial year, when, as a result of the activities of the friends of the party to my right, we had £127 million taken out of our budget in the middle of the year, we still found about £11 million extra for the maintenance of our roads. I am sure that the Member for Strangford Mr McNarry has already made his bid to have some of that money spent by Roads Service on his constituency.

We have had a maintenance budget, and additional money was made available for the treatment of our roads during the winter, particularly during the severe weather around Christmas.

I must mention the completion of the much-needed £146 million Dungannon to Ballygawley dual carriageway in December, which will benefit the local and regional economy through improved journey times in the movement of goods and services across Northern Ireland and enhance safety on the route. Anyone who has used that route, as I have on a number of occasions to go to engagements, will know that the dual carriageway has made a vast improvement to journey times and safety, because drivers do not have to sit behind slow-moving traffic and take chances overtaking at some of the windier parts of the road. We hear critical comments time and again in the Assembly, but that project shows the commitment of the Executive to ensure that all parts of Northern Ireland benefit from the spend and that the west of Northern Ireland is not left out of the infrastructure improvements that we do.

Finally, some 2,000 social homes and over 450 affordable homes will be delivered in 2010-11. That is in addition to schemes to improve four of our towns, namely Lurgan, Portadown, Downpatrick — I am sure that the Member for South Down Ms Ritchie will be pleased to acknowledge that — and Kilkeel. I am unsure whether Kilkeel is also in her constituency. My geography on these matters is not very good, but I am sure that she will tell me that that was all down to her hard work.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I am pleased that the Minister has given way. Does he agree that I initiated some of those projects when I was at the Department for Social Development?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I will not tell the current Minister for Social Development that his party leader tried to steal some of his glory. He claims that those projects are all his successes, and that he had to take over from the honourable lady and pick up the pieces — well, he did not said that, but he might have.

The building of 2,000 social houses through the house-building programme is quite an achievement for the Department for Social Development. It will also help to reduce the waiting lists for housing, which are on the increase.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Will the Minister give way?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The Member for South Down is determined to have her moment of glory. I will not hold her back, and I will give way.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for giving way again. I am sure that the Minister will agree with me that being able to achieve such targets for social house-building this year is due, in no small measure, to the good work of the current Minister for Social Development and the fact that he was able to carry on, use transfer sites and make the best use of the available money.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

It was the result of a collective effort by the Executive, which sought to ensure that the available resources are spent to meet the priorities in Northern Ireland. I am sure that when the honourable lady was the Minister for Social Development, she played an important role, as has her successor. However, that success is due to the work of an Executive in which her party, my party, the party opposite, the party to my right, and the Alliance Party collaborate on a regular basis to ensure that we deliver the programme.

As well as the headline-hitting outcomes of the plans that were laid some years ago, the delivery of public services, which are financed by the Bill that is under consideration today, continues day by day. Those services include health, social services, education, policing and justice, environment, transport, culture, social development and the administration of non-contributory benefits, agriculture, and much more.

The financial year 2010-11 was difficult. However, as I outlined in my speech during the debate at Second Stage, we managed the in-year pressures through the monitoring rounds, and even made some allocations to Departments. Mr McNarry has been critical of the way in which we manage some of the in-year pressures, and there have been discussions about whether we should have contingency funds. However, the pressures that emerged during the year — and a significant pressure came as the result of the £127 million that was suddenly demanded from us in June —

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

By his friends.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Yes; by his friends, as I have been informed from behind. Those and other pressures were met through the monitoring rounds.

We now turn our minds to the end of the financial year. I must stress to Departments and Ministers the importance of achieving maximum spend — this is the balance — and yet not overspending and placing the Northern Ireland Executive at risk of an excess, with the resultant damage to our credibility as an Administration. I appreciate that that is extremely challenging for all Departments, especially in the current constrained fiscal environment, but that balance must be achieved. If we underspend because the end-year flexibility arrangement was taken away from us by the Government, that money will go back to Westminster and will be lost to our Budget, but there will also be penalties if we overspend.

Looking forward, I turn now to the early months of the next financial year and the many challenges that lie ahead for the next Assembly. As Members are well aware, we enter 2011-12 with a very constrained financial position, both in current and capital spend. I remind Members that that is not as a result of mismanagement on our part; it is not as a result of bad decisions on our part; and it is not as a result of things that we neglected to do. It is the result of the fact that 90% of the money that is spent in Northern Ireland comes in the form of a block grant from Westminster, and that block grant has been cut by £4 billion over the next four years. We must administer that cut. I want to emphasise this again, and I know that I will be accused of making a party political point, but the party that complained most about it was the party that campaigned most for the Government that imposed that cut on us. We must live within those financial constraints, and I am sure that we will hear much — [Interruption.]

Maybe Mr McNarry’s memory — [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Minister must be heard.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Maybe Mr McNarry’s memory is very short. However, I remember UCAMP, or UCUNF, or whatever it was called — the Conservative and Ulster Unionist Party alliance. Mr McNarry campaigned on the streets of Northern Ireland for Conservative Party candidates, and he indicated that had he won the seat in Strangford he would have taken the Whip for the Conservative Party and voted for the Budget that we now have to work with. That is the financial constraint that we face.

Furthermore, his party has compounded the situation. After an unsuccessful election campaign with the Conservative Party, his party has now decided that it would like to be the political McDonald’s of Northern Ireland politics. It wants to be the franchise for the Conservative Party, the very party that has brought us those cuts. To a certain extent, I suppose that we could almost call the financial constraints that we are facing next year the Ulster Unionists’ financial constraints.

David McNarry (UUP, Strangford)

Go ahead.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I just have. Those are the constraints that we will face next year.

On the other hand, we also face inflation and contractual pay pressures that will be difficult to manage, while the much-reduced capital budget — a 40% reduction — will impact on the local construction industry and, hence, on the local economy. Given those constraints, there are a number of things that we must do. First, we must address inefficiency, and there is inefficiency in the public sector. Secondly, we must address waste, and there is waste. During the Budget process, many people came forward to identify where that waste might be. Those things must be done before we consider reducing the level of service that is delivered to people in Northern Ireland.

That is why I asked Departments last April to commence work on savings plans in preparation for such a scenario, and I am sure that it will be raised during the debate. I am sure that the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel will raise the issue in his speech. One of the disappointments is that some Departments still appear not to have produced comprehensive saving plans, even though we were well aware a year in advance that some of those things had to be done.

The revised Budget is in its final stages. I call on all Ministers, Departments and parties to put aside past arguments and differences and put their shoulders to the wheel to deliver for the people, businesses and communities as we move into the next Assembly and next Budget period.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his speech. Members will know that the Budget Bill provides the statutory authority for expenditure in 2010-11, as specified in the spring Supplementary Estimates, which take account of what happened during the year’s monitoring rounds. The Bill also includes the Vote on Account, which allows public expenditure to continue in the early part of the next financial year until the Main Estimates for 2011-12 are voted on by the Assembly in early June.

The Committee for Finance and Personnel recommended that the Bill be granted accelerated passage following an evidence session with the Department’s officials on 2 February. That evidence session was the culmination of a process of scrutiny by the Committee of in-year monitoring rounds in 2009-2010, which, in addition to a discussion of the Department’s position, included briefings on the strategic and cross-cutting issues relating to public expenditure following the outcome of each monitoring round.

Given that the Vote on Account dimension of the Bill relates to the first year of the next Budget period, I will take a few moments to refer to the detailed work that the Committee has undertaken over recent months in respect of the Budget for 2011-15. The Committee has heard from a wide range of witnesses, including representatives of the business and voluntary sectors, economists, academics and trade unions on strategic and cross-cutting public finance issues. In addition, submissions were received from each of the applicable Assembly Committees on the spending and savings plans for their respective Departments.

The key issues considered by the Committee included the basis for proposed departmental allocations; the potential for achieving longer-term efficiency savings; possible areas for new or increased revenue generation; and preventative spending. The Committee’s substantive report on the Executive’s draft Budget 2011-15, which it agreed and submitted to DFP on 16 February, includes some 45 key findings and recommendations, in addition to numerous observations and proposals at both strategic and departmental level. The typescript report was laid in the Business Office on 17 February, and printed and online versions will, I hope, be available to all Members from tomorrow.

The Committee expects that the Executive will take on board the report’s recommendations in developing the final Budget 2011-15 proposals, and it also expects that the Finance Minister will outline the Executive’s response to the report when presenting the final Budget proposals to the Assembly.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Chairperson for giving way. Will he confirm that the Committee’s report will express some serious concerns about very many aspects of the Budget? Will he also confirm that the business community representatives, the construction industry representatives, the trade union representatives, the academic representatives, the community and voluntary organisations’ representatives — all of whom the Committee heard from — expressed grave and serious reservations about the quality of this Budget and its ability to deliver for this region?

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his intervention.

I will now speak in a personal capacity. The work of the Committee on this report was lengthy. The report itself was over 200 pages long. There is a lot of good in it, but there is also a lot of constructive criticism. I have not seen any report from a Committee that has come through this House that has been free of constructive criticism. That is the way the Committee should move forward in carrying out its work.

I am opposed to Committee work that has been agreed by all parties being used for party political purposes. This report was referred to at an earlier stage in the debate, when the report was not even agreed or finalised by the Committee. The Committee’s work should not be abused in that way.

The report makes a number of positive recommendations. The Committee very much welcomed the joint declaration and work carried out by the Executive, the Finance Minister and the First Minister and deputy First Minister, in conjunction with the Scottish and Welsh Governments, which called on the British Government to reverse its decision to write off the accumulated EYF stocks. That was raised with departmental officials and the Minister when he was before the Committee. The Committee is also concerned about the British Government trying to renege on the £4·4 billion in capital funding which remains to be paid, and it encourages the Executive to continue to press for a firmer commitment from the British Government.

The Committee supported the Executive’s proposal to transfer money from current to capital within the Budget period, as that would help to relieve some of the pressure on the construction industry. In a finalised Budget, I would like to see more money going to capital in the education budget, for example, because there are many schools that desperately need new buildings.

The Committee also welcomed the proposals in the draft Budget to identify alternative means of raising additional revenue, such as the plastic bag levy. The Committee encourages the Executive to explore novel approaches to raising new revenue in order to support public service delivery.

Reference was also made to the issue of preventative spending. There was broad agreement in the Committee that that is a very interesting area of work that needs more research and should be embraced by the Executive and the Minister of Finance and Personnel. Preventative spending has many positive social benefits as well as providing cost savings in the longer term, particularly in areas such as justice.

The Committee recognises the fact that the devolution of corporation tax will itself act as an incentive for potential foreign direct investment companies. When it is deployed, it should be done in conjunction with other DFP strategies. The Committee also welcomed the Executive’s engagement in the green new deal initiative, which will have benefits for householders, people on the poverty line and, of course, the construction sector.

The Budget review group has done a lot of work in recent months. All the parties at the Executive table should have been bringing proposals to the review group from day one. It was interesting that the Minister of Finance and Personnel referred to the Ulster Unionist Party’s support for the Conservatives in the most recent Westminster election campaign. During the debate at a previous stage of the Bill, I recall that, when Basil McCrea was challenged about whether he would have voted to implement the cuts, he could not answer the question. The Ulster Unionist Party must clarify whether it would have voted for the cuts if it had had representation at Westminster. I am willing to give way to an intervention on that issue.

Pól Callaghan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is the Member speaking as the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel or as an individual Member?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has already clarified his position. I often say to Members who are Chairpersons of Committees that it is important to clarify whether they are speaking as a Chairperson or as a Member of this House.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I am willing to take an intervention from the Ulster Unionist Party’s MLAs if they want to clarify whether they would have voted for the cuts. To date, they have failed to answer that question when it has been put to them. The £4 billion in Budget cuts will have a serious effect on all members of our community, as the Minister has already pointed out, and the massive cut in the capital budget will hit the construction sector hard. There is a duty on the Ulster Unionist Party to clarify that for members of the community.

The plastic bag levy is an environmental initiative that will raise funds. Of course, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist Party have already stated that they are opposed to that positive environmental initiative, probably because it is in the draft Budget.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for a Member, whether he or she is speaking as a Chairperson of a Committee or as an individual MLA, to knowingly misrepresent the policy position of another party in this House? The SDLP is not opposed to a plastic bag levy; the SDLP happens to have issues with the accelerated passage of the Single Use Plastic Bags Bill, which is an entirely different thing.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I thank the Member for his point of order. He has now put it on the record.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. It is just a case of the SDLP saying white when we say black, which is a totally disingenuous approach to some of the initiatives that we bring to the House. If the SDLP had brought a similar Bill to the Assembly, we would have had no problem supporting it. The fact of the matter was that, until now, the SDLP supported a plastic bag levy, but now it does not.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is a matter of record in the House. I do not know whether it is appropriate, or in order, for a Member to continually and knowingly misrepresent the position of another party.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I have to say to the Chairperson of the Committee once again that he has expressed his party view. It is on the record once again.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I remind the Member that I am speaking in a personal capacity as a member of Sinn Féin. I am sure that the Member has a variety of views that I disagree with, but he is free to express those in the House. I will not try to stymie him or gag him in any way. Every Member should be afforded that courtesy. It is not only about the draft Budget: there is an election around the corner. The SDLP and the Ulster Unionist Party oppose the draft Budget. They are coming out with all this opposition and their alternative proposals, which seem to be neither costed nor thought out, because there is an election in less than 10 weeks’ time.

Declan O'Loan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)

I am surprised at the Member’s remark that our proposals are not costed. May I make a remark about the style of the speech that the Member is giving? When a Member is elected as a Chairperson of a Committee, that is a significant duty for any Member. When a Member makes a speech as Chairperson, there is an expectation that that Member will carry the dignity of the position of Chairperson with him through the rest of the speech. To misrepresent repeatedly the position of this party damages the quality of debate in the Chamber.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I remind Members that the Final Stage of any Bill is about its contents, not about what Members hope or think could or should be in the Bill. The Final Stage is about what is in the Bill now, and that is what we should be discussing.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. What I find disgraceful and disingenuous is a party, a Member or whoever taking a draft report from the Committee for Finance and Personnel — a report that has not been finalised or agreed in Committee — and a Member then speaking to it in the House as if it has been finalised. That undermines the Committee’s work. Those sorts of actions need to be brought to an end, because that was simply disgraceful.

Declan O'Loan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)

Since his previous remarks were directed at the SDLP and he then moved on to that point, it is likely that his imputation is intended for, and directed at, me. I, therefore, want to put it on the record that I deny utterly that I disclosed any matter that had not been agreed by the Committee and was still in draft.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage Members to get back to the Final Stage. That is important.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I have clearly touched a nerve with some Members today.

In conclusion, the draft Budget for the four years ahead is very important, and we need to approach it in a constructive way. The Budget review group is looking at a number of proposals to generate revenue to offset the revenue shortfall that has resulted from the Tory cuts. That important work must continue. In their papers and economic documents, Members and parties should come forward with proposals on how we can mitigate the impact that the Westminster Budget and the comprehensive spending review will have on our society and community. They have a responsibility not only to publish those documents but to cost their ideas and proposals, bring them to the Budget review group and let us see whether we can implement them and try to mitigate the impact that the Tory cuts will have.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has arranged to meet immediately upon the lunchtime suspension. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The first item of business after lunch will be Question Time.

The debate stood suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 12.34 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr McClarty] in the Chair) —

Enterprise, Trade and Investment

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

1. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment whether she intends to facilitate a cross-departmental plan to maximise the tourism potential of the north-west region, arising from the status of the Derry-Londonderry City of Culture 2013. (AQO 1135/11)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Northern Ireland Tourist Board has been working with the Department for Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL), Derry City Council, Ilex, Tourism Ireland and VisitBritain to develop a marketing and events programme for the UK City of Culture 2013, to promote the cultural experience on offer in the city and to maximise the tourism opportunity presented by the award. In addition, a Northern Ireland 2012-13 steering group chaired by my Department has been set up to look at the tourism potential of 2012 and the UK City of Culture in 2013. The 2013 award, in particular, offers a major opportunity to change perceptions of Northern Ireland. My officials, along with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board (NITB) and key partners in central and local government, are working on a number of high-profile events to maximise the tourism potential.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for her response and acknowledge her contribution over recent years in profiling and developing the Walled City projects. It is important that we maximise the potential of what will be the most important event in Northern Ireland in 2013, and I welcome the important cross-departmental approach that has been taken. However, will the Minister tell the House whether any programme money has been set aside to develop the potential of that event for everyone in Northern Ireland?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his comments. As I indicated, the Department chairs a cross-departmental group on 2012-13. He is right that 2013 will be a key year for the north-west. However, he will acknowledge that the Clipper race that is coming in 2012 will also be hugely important to the city and to the wider north-west. I am getting increasingly excited about what could happen in the city in 2012, given that there is a very firm proposition to bring the opening of the Cultural Olympiad, which is a huge event, to the north-west. There is also potential for the BBC Sports Personality of the Year award to go to the city on the back of its UK City of Culture status. As I said yesterday, the fact that the Turner Prize is coming to the city in 2013 is an absolutely huge achievement, especially given that it has been based in the Tate since 1984 and has never left Great Britain, and we should all be proud of that. So, there will be a huge amount of activity in the north-west.

During 2012, there will also be a lot of activity around the Titanic story and the visitors’ centre at the Giant’s Causeway, which are big events that we call tier 1 events. There will, of course, also be tier 2 and tier 3 events. So, a huge amount is going on. As I told the House yesterday, the next Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment will have a very exciting time in 2012-13, and I wish whoever it is well.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her comments about ensuring that projects such as the Giant’s Causeway visitors’ centre benefit from the UK City of Culture 2013 award. Will the Minister update us on the Apprentice Boys memorial hall project? If the UK City of Culture is to progress, it is vital that it does so on an inclusive basis so that no community in the city of Londonderry feels excluded or isolated.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question and comments. Events right across Northern Ireland should, indeed, be as inclusive as possible. The Tourist Board has now received the first draft of the BDO business plan, which highlights the Apprentice Boys of Derry memorial hall as a key project under what is called the western perspective initiative. The Tourist Board met the CPD and the Apprentice Boys on the 11 February to discuss the next steps and how to drive forward the project.

It is expected that the project will be complete by 2013 and therefore form part of the UK City of Culture celebrations. I am keen that everyone in the city sees the benefit of that designation. I have no doubt that we will work towards that in conjunction with the partners whom I mentioned in the substantive answer.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

The Minister knows the importance of increasing revenue from visitors. Will she tell us what plans are in place to achieve more revenue from visitors attracted by Londonderry’s winning the UK City of Culture challenge?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I absolutely recognise the need to increase tourism spending in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, we are bottom of the regions in that league table for the UK and Ireland. To increase tourism spending, we first need to bring tourists to Northern Ireland. Our biggest market is Great Britain, and, as the Member knows from comments that I made yesterday, I intend to increase our marketing in Great Britain so that we can get the most potential out of those tourists. Secondly, when those visitors come to Northern Ireland, they have to have opportunities to spend their money. Therefore, we need to be able to give them product and goods to purchase when they are here. As a Government, we have spent a lot of money in capital expenditure over the past three years, and we now need to see the return from that capital expenditure. We will do that through marketing plans, principally in Great Britain, but also in Germany, which is now a key market for us.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

2. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment how much funding her Department has allocated to each of the Belfast constituencies in the last five years. (AQO 1136/11)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I recently answered Assembly questions detailing the assistance offered to business and tourism projects for each of the four Belfast parliamentary constituencies. I refer the Member to AQW 3938/11 and AQW 4093/11. In addition, over the past five years, under EU structural fund programmes, my Department has funded local economic development projects in the Belfast City Council area. It has also funded telecoms and energy investment projects across Belfast. However, it is not feasible to provide a breakdown of the associated expenditure by parliamentary constituency without undertaking significant work.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her reply. I appreciate that information has been provided in the past on this question. However, given the historical imbalances, will the Minister give an assessment of the benefit of that expenditure? In other words, have the outcomes improved and is there an equitable performance in the various constituencies?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Members are often misled when they look at spending in the constituency of South Belfast, for example, because they automatically think that it can be compared to other Belfast constituencies, such as West Belfast or North Belfast. However, South Belfast covers the city centre in which people from across Northern Ireland work. I think that only two wards in Northern Ireland do not have people working in South Belfast. People travel from across Northern Ireland to work in that constituency. Therefore, it is unfair to say that, because, based on the strict figures, West Belfast does not have the same amount of spend as some of the other constituencies it is therefore disadvantaged.

People travel to work, and it is a very short distance from West Belfast to South Belfast — in other words, to the city centre. I urge Members from constituencies in which it may, on the face of it, look as though there is a spending imbalance to think about the fact that it is a very short distance to work in other areas. I live in the constituency of Fermanagh and South Tyrone, yet I work every day in East Belfast. Quite a number of people who live in that constituency come into the city of Belfast for work.

My job is to bring more investment into Northern Ireland so that we can all benefit from it. Today, I announced another 130 jobs at Schrader Electronics in Antrim. Those high-tech jobs will be welcomed across Northern Ireland, because they are another acknowledgement of the skills that we have in Northern Ireland. I hope that Members will recognise that although we are a small region, we punch above our weight.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I have listened very carefully to what the Minister has said. I understand that Belfast is different in some respects from other parts of Northern Ireland in so far as jobs are more accessible in parts of the city. However, for the past number of months, there has been a significant increase in unemployment in my constituency of North Belfast, and that is compounded by historical unemployment and a low level of economic activity. I ask the Minister to reassure the people of North Belfast that she will look at such areas to see what more she can do to alleviate the situation.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. He is the Chairperson of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment, so he will know that we set aside £18·8 million in the draft Budget precisely to deal with some of the issues that he raised. I am fully aware of the fact that we are now at 8% unemployment. It is not something about which I rejoice. It is precisely to deal with that level of unemployment, which is principally from the construction sector, that we need to look at retraining, at very localised job schemes — perhaps through the social economy — at whether we can do more in the agrifood sector and at whether we can do more with jobs that perhaps would not traditionally be supported by Invest Northern Ireland. That is what the £18·8 million is there to do. I look forward to working with the Member and others in trying to find ways in which we can use that £18·8 million, because I do not want to be handing back any of it. I want it all used.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I very much agree with the Minister: it is not about sharing investment funding among all the constituencies in Belfast but about having a skilled workforce and making it mobile. What measures has the Minister taken to improve our labour mobility in Belfast?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member will know, South Belfast has gained a lot of employment over the past number of years as a result of Queen’s University’s very strong links. We have been able to bring some global names, such as NYSE, into the city centre. That then feeds into other financial services and businesses so that they can come to Belfast and wider Northern Ireland.

The Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) ran a campaign some time ago called ‘C’Mon Over’ to try to encourage people who had left here for whatever reason over the past 30 years to come back and look at Northern Ireland as a place in which to work and live. I very much hope that people will do that in a very meaningful way, because there are job opportunities, particularly in the financial services, the technology sector and the life sciences sector. If we manage to bring some of those people to Northern Ireland, some of whom left in the past for pretty obvious reasons, they will have those opportunities. I rejoice when we bring in global companies, because it sends out a very strong, positive and confident message about the Northern Ireland workforce.

Ken Robinson (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her reply, particularly her mention of the new jobs in south-east Antrim at Schrader, which is a very good company. I am delighted that it is still expanding. I will not detain the Minister by extolling the benefits and delights of Newtownabbey, which is a growing area on the fringes of Belfast. Or is it the other way around? Are there any plans to extend the convention and exhibition facilities in Belfast to exploit further the potential of business tourism?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. I was very pleased to be with Schrader this morning to announce those jobs for Antrim and for Carrickfergus, which is in the Member’s constituency. We have been trying to attract people from the business tourism sector for some time, but our facilities probably need to undergo a step change if we are to attract the sort of business tourism to which the Member referred. We need to take a serious look at whether we need a convention centre — clearly not the size of the one in Dublin but something that will attract conferences into Belfast and the rest of Northern Ireland so that the tourism spend can rise. After all, it is business tourists who spend the most money when they come to visit us here in Northern Ireland. We would love to see more business tourists coming into Northern Ireland.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

3. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of recommendation 8 in the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee’s ‘Report on the Committee’s Inquiry into Barriers to the Development of Renewable Energy Production and its Associated Contribution to the Northern Ireland Economy’, which suggests the creation of a single organisation to deal with energy issues. (AQO 1137/11)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I welcome the Committee’s report and commend its members for all the effort that has gone into its production. However, I received the document only recently, and detailed consideration is required to do it justice. Therefore, I have not yet reached a final view on any of the recommendations. Recommendation 8 relates to the structures and mechanisms around the provision of advice and support on energy, which will require consideration by a number of Departments currently involved in energy matters and, possibly, by the Executive. From preliminary considerations, it appears that much of the recommendation is ultra vires for DETI, as the Department does not have any authority over a number of the external delivery agencies cited in the report.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her response. What assistance is available for community partnerships and organisations to bring forward renewable energy projects, such as biomass district heating schemes?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

In relation to the biomass schemes and the anaerobic digesters, we have increased the renewables obligation certificate (ROC) incentives available to anaerobic digesters. A large number of farmers and co-operatives are now looking at whether they can avail themselves of anaerobic digesters to help solve their waste problem and to create renewable energy in areas around Northern Ireland.

On the other matter that he mentioned, it is important and absolutely right that we continue to reach out to communities which want to do something about renewable energy, and my officials always stand ready to help in any way that they can. However, one of the most fundamental issues surrounding community infrastructure is the grid. We need to strengthen the grid. The Committee looked at the need for infrastructure investment. I hope that, right across the House, the need for such infrastructure investment is recognised and we realise that we need to invest in it for the future. For competiveness, sustainability and all of the environmental reasons, that is the right thing to do, and I hope to get support from across the House when we come to look at strengthening the grid.

Jonathan Craig (DUP, Lagan Valley)

How does the lignite moratorium affect recent planning applications for the extraction of lignite near Crumlin?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

There has been some press speculation about that matter. The Member knows that I intend to extend the moratorium on prospecting for a further three years. Although nothing has yet been received in my Department, I note that reports of the application describe it as a mining application. It would be difficult to grant a mining licence without any prospecting having been carried out. Mining follows prospecting, so it is difficult to see circumstances in which a licence would be granted for mining in a lignite area if prospecting had not been previously carried out. I know that there are a lot of concerns in and around the area about this matter. I am happy for my officials to meet Members who have specific concerns about those issues, but the matter may have been blown out of proportion a little. I do not think that a licence for mining can be granted unless some prospecting has been done to prove that there is something to mine.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Does the Minister agree that, in keeping with the principles and practice of partnership government, no matter who is in the next Assembly, it will be critical to ensure that Departments collaborate closely to overcome barriers to creating jobs?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is absolutely right. Indeed, the Member may recall that the independent review of economic policy stated clearly that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Department for Employment and Learning should come together to try to overcome such barriers. It will come as no surprise to the Member that I support a reduction in the number of Departments. I think that that would make for better government. It was heartening to see independent economic advice support that as the right thing to do. However, that will be a matter for the new Executive and Assembly. I hope that we move in that direction because, and I think that this is the kernel of the Member’s question, it would lead to better government and, therefore, help all our people.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Does the Minister agree that it is inefficient for at least six Departments to be involved in energy savings?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Again, there is a need to streamline Departments, and my party and I are very much up for that in the next Assembly. We want a reduction in the number of Departments. The Member said that six Departments are involved in energy, which is absolutely right. We have tried to overcome that difficulty with the cross-sectoral advisory group, which is chaired by my Department. However, it would be much more beneficial and a better way to proceed if one Department dealt with all energy issues.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

4. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of the potential of companies to exploit EU framework 7 funding. (AQO 1138/11)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The EU seventh framework programme (FP7) is the world’s largest research funding programme. To date, Northern Ireland companies and universities have drawn down almost €25 million, and, as funding ramps up towards the end of the programme, we are on target to reach and potentially exceed our €50 million target. Investment in research and development is central to growing the economy, and, therefore, more companies need to be encouraged to invest in R&D. The framework programme provides an excellent opportunity for companies in that regard, which is why Invest Northern Ireland is working hard to encourage companies to apply for framework funding.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Will the Minister consider creating and allocating adequate resources to a special task force — perhaps there already is one in Invest Northern Ireland, in which case it needs to be much more robust — to ensure that we have the capacity to increase local uptake of the seventh framework programme R&D funding, particularly for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs)?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am aware that the Member has carried out significant work in that area, for which I commend him. Recently, he met Invest NI and other organisations to discuss how we can make the most of the framework programme. He will know that, late last year, we had a successful visit from Commissioner Máire Geoghegan-Quinn. Our meeting was very positive, and we were able to build on relationships with her staff. Rather than setting up a structure, we need to build on that relationship. Nevertheless, I take the Member’s point that we need to forge ahead with drawing down money from the European Union. As national budgets get tighter, we need to look at drawing down more funding from Europe.

As part of our strategy to increase awareness of the importance of the framework programme, we will be organising a conference with the European Commission in Belfast in June, and I hope that that will be an important step in involving some of our SMEs in the FP7 process. I know that the process is daunting and that bureaucracy sometimes puts people off from applying, but I hope to tackle some of those issues during the conference.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

Will the Minister give us some examples of seventh framework programme successes to date?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am pleased to say that an increasing number of Northern Ireland companies have been able to secure funding from the framework programme. One of those companies, Cherry Pipes Ltd, is from Dungannon, and the Member to my left will be very pleased about that. That project, involving several European partners, aims to improve processes for recycling plastic waste, allowing the production of higher-grade recycled materials, so it ticks the boxes on environmental issues and on research and development. Hamilton Erskine Ltd, from Newtownards, is involved with a number of European partners in a collaborative project in the construction sector, a sector that we want to help in any way possible, so it is good and positive that an organisation from that sector is drawing down FP7 moneys, because that is the way to go.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer on framework 7. What work is under way through the Northern Ireland European office to influence and ensure that we are part of the development of framework 8 before it is published?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member may not be aware, but it is one of my hobby horses to make sure that we structure FP8 to suit the Northern Ireland SME community and the economy. We are working very closely with colleagues across government to ensure that our businesses and, importantly, our universities are best placed to take advantage of the opportunities that become available under FP8 when it commences in 2014. I am particularly anxious to see increased collaboration between universities and local SMEs. We have seen some very good examples of universities working with some of our larger companies such as Wrightbus and Bombardier. So, I very much want local small and medium-sized enterprises to work with the universities, and I am working very closely with the Department for Employment and Learning to ensure that we put support mechanisms in place to make that happen. FP7 is very important, and FP8 will be very important as well. We need to be in right from the beginning.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

5. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for an update on future plans for regional tourism partnerships. (AQO 1139/11)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The draft tourism strategy for Northern Ireland to 2020 advocates tourism delivery to be focused at two levels, national and local, with NITB taking the lead at a national level and the local authorities at a local level. In addition, it proposes examples of key tourism areas or destinations. It is recommended that tourism area plans are developed for each key tourism area. It is for the local authorities to lead in the development of those plans and to define the most suitable mechanism or structure to deliver and to engage with the private sector. Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) and NITB officials have begun a series of meetings with each key tourism area to discuss their plans and how each area can link into the arrangements for delivery of the tourism strategy.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for the answer. I declare an interest as a member of Carrickfergus Borough Council and as a retiring director of Causeway Coast and Glens Tourism. Given the potential for larger local government clusters to emerge through the ongoing work of the review of public administration (RPA), does the Minister consider that delivery may become unwieldy or may even be duplicated?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Duplication is the one thing that I do not want to happen, because that would be a waste of government funds. Frankly, I wanted the tourism strategy to address duplication and the fact that so many people at different levels are trying to deliver a tourism product. So, through RPA, there is an opportunity in the future to try to get different clusters together to deliver in their particular areas. However, I do not want to be prescriptive and say that what works in the Causeway Coast and glens area will work in the Fermanagh lakelands area. So, there needs to be a coming together and a discussion about how best to deliver for the local areas.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Given my concern and that of others, which I am sure that the Minister will share, about the potential impact of an increase in air passenger duty on our tourism sector at a regional level, I want to ask the Minister specifically about the proposal to re-cluster tourism partnerships. Will she be open-minded about seeing the opportunity to do that on a cross-border basis where it is common sense to do so?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am sorry that the Member did not hear what I said originally, which was that the Northern Ireland Tourist Board will look after the national level, which is Northern Ireland, and other areas will look forward at a local area. If those local areas feel that they need to have relationships with bodies across the border, it is quite open to them to do so. However, I do not think that we should create more bodies for the sake of it. We should have a good tourism strategy and deliver it well at a local level. If there is a need for cross-border workings, that should happen, but not with an overarching “ugly scaffolding”, to use a term that the Member’s former party leader used at one time. We need to see delivery for tourism.

Environment

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Questions 5, 9 and 11 have been withdrawn and require written answers.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

1. asked the Minister of the Environment to outline any discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues about protecting retailing and town centres by introducing a rates deferment scheme for businesses affected by the economic downturn. (AQO 1150/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Although rates deferment is a matter for the Finance Minister, I understand that the Executive have no plans to introduce such a measure. In addition, new primary legislation would be required to give effect to such a policy.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for that brief answer. As he will know, such a scheme is in place for pensioners so a precedent exists. Will he agree that, particularly given the economic downturn, it does not make sense to force businesses to go under by forcing them to pay a rates bill when that could be deferred until they have recovered?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

When Nigel Dodds was Finance Minister, he introduced a small business rates relief scheme, so there is an existing model for us to work from. Some businesses are calling for the scheme to be broadened and expanded, and the Executive could look at that in the Budget. One potential mechanism for funding such a scheme would be the introduction of a differential rate for out-of-town shopping centres so that such centres, which have free parking and so on, would pay higher rates. That money could be used for the benefit of city centre and town centre traders, who are suffering as a result of the economic downturn and the movement of shoppers to out-of-town shopping centres.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Minister has hit the nail on the head. Out-of-town shopping centres have an inbuilt advantage, beginning with the planning fees and, of course, the rates that they pay. Will the Minister accept that, not only in Northern Ireland but in different parts of the world, there are real problems for small businesses in town centres? We need to look radically at how we can renew and keep alive those businesses, particularly in the times of economic depression that we are experiencing now.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We are changing the planning fees. People who wish to develop large shopping centres will pay considerably more and will not be subsidised from the public purse as has been the case heretofore. We can also look at the potential for opening up bids on a statutory basis. Minister Attwood has gone out to consultation on that. I have said that I support the introduction of bids, through which we can provide better town centres and better opportunities in them at a very modest cost to the ratepayers.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

2. asked the Minister of the Environment what consideration he has given to additional revenue-raising options for the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. (AQO 1151/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Northern Ireland Environment Agency currently raises £6·8 million revenue from environmental regulation and licensing regimes and through admissions and retail sales at state-care monuments, café franchises at country parks, grazing rent, site leases and other miscellaneous commercial activities. To examine the potential for further revenue-raising options, the agency has established a commercial opportunities group, which is currently assessing options.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his response. Given the difficult budget situation, does he believe that his Department could be exposed to any EU environmental infraction fines because of the cutbacks?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

There is always that issue and difficulty, so it is imperative that the Department of the Environment’s budget has a decent baseline. Therefore, when other Members and Ministers say that £400 million should be taken away from all other Departments and put into the Department that their party holds, they could put Northern Ireland at risk of losing tens of millions of pounds in EU fines in order to, perhaps, fund the Health Service when they have not taken the difficult decisions that others have had to take.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

The Minister explained that the Environment Agency generates £6·8 million. Will he detail the impact that the Tory/Ulster Unionist Party cuts might have on any future possibility for the Environment Agency?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I see Mr McCarthy waving his Order Paper, but it should not be forgotten that the Alliance/Liberal Democrats are in on the cuts as well. Mr McCarthy should not wave his papers; his party is equally guilty, as it is the sister party of the franchisee.

The reality is that we will lose £4 billion over the next four years. That has left us in a very difficult situation, and every area in Northern Ireland will be impacted on as a result. We must seek to minimise that impact by reducing bureaucracy and costs. This place is a good place to start, by reducing the number of MLAs and the number of Departments. Are other parties prepared to come with us to reduce the costs, to give the lead from this House, to reduce the number of Departments and MLAs and to step up to the mark?

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I hope that the Minister for the Environment will answer my question and not the Minister for Finance in waiting. What conversations has the Minister for the Environment had with the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Investment about the possibility of generating extra revenue for the Environmental Protection Agency through tourism activity?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I must correct Mr McDevitt: I am actually the Minister of the Environment, not Minister for the Environment. We are in discussions with other bodies about opportunities around facilities such as Carrickfergus Castle and Hillsborough Fort to ensure that those facilities are appropriately used and marketed and to see if we can join others and demonstrate real savings and introduce additional income streams. Those are the types of area that we need to look at. That work is ongoing.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

3. asked the Minister of the Environment to outline his Department’s response to the local government modernisation consultation. (AQO 1152/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The closing date for responses to the policy consultation on local government reform that I launched in this House on 30 November 2010 is 11 March 2011. Therefore, it would be presumptuous of me to outline a response before I have considered the views expressed by the consultees.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I remind the Minister that one of the key areas where we could reduce cost is in the delivery of the review of public administration. In the interests of moving things forward, will the Minister accept that, as has been outlined as one of the key aspects of the consultation document, there is a need for a proper compact between the Assembly and local government to ensure that they work in partnership, rather than create needless tensions around funding, for example?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It is critical that we work in partnership with local government. There is complementarity between the work of Belfast City Council’s regeneration office and the work of DSD’s urban regeneration team, but there may be overlap in some of those circumstances, and there may be opportunities for the councils to carry out more of that work. In the work that the rural development teams do in the local action groups through the councils and the work that DARD is doing with its thousands of employees, is there an opportunity to demonstrate efficiencies? While we do what we are doing in local government, given the additional time that we have, should we look again at some departmental responsibilities to see whether councils could deliver some of them more efficiently?

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. On a specific issue to do with a particular local government authority, namely Omagh District Council, will the Minister comment on the fact that the council has decided to lease lands in Carrickmore to Éire Óg hurling and camogie club, which is a local sports club? Will the Minister sign off on that without further delay? For months, his delay has prevented that club from applying for sports grants. That is a local government matter.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Order. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the question at hand.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

It is a local government matter.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra, agus ba mhaith liom an méid seo a leanas a fhiafraí de. Will the Minister ensure that equality safeguard mechanisms are in place in statute before any local government modernisation legislation is brought forward?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That is, of course, what this is about. The consultation is about introducing to councils an ethical standards regime and codes of conduct for councillors. It is about sharing responsibility. The document has looked across a range of issues. I am not sure whether the Member has had an opportunity to read the document, but, when he does, he will, perhaps, fully understand that that is the nature of the document.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

Following in the line of the RPA and the ongoing changes, has the Minister had consultations with other Ministers to get a cumulative picture of all the work that is being passed to councils and the resources that are needed?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I have always maintained that, whatever functions are transferred to councils, finance must follow function. Therefore, the money that Departments spend on a particular function is what should be allocated to local government, and it is for local government to do that job with the funding that is made available to it. It is up to local government whether it wishes to invest more. It is also up to local government whether it can deliver the function more efficiently and achieve savings from it. We need to work from what the government budgets are before we transfer them to councils, and we need to allow councils to carry out their jobs thereafter.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

4. asked the Minister of the Environment for his assessment of whether his capital budget for the next four years will be sufficient to meet the demands placed upon his Department. [R] (AQO 1153/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

My Department has been allocated total capital funding of £23·6 million over the four Budget years. Almost 50% of that funding, £11·6 million, is for the strategic waste infrastructure fund and the Rethink Waste fund. I can confirm that the £2·3 million to be allocated to the strategic waste infrastructure fund will provide a significant proportion of the necessary funds to enable the waste projects to reach financial close. Furthermore, the £9·3 million to be allocated to the Rethink Waste fund will provide funding to councils for initiatives that will help to boost waste recycling and reuse.

Some £4·2 million of the total capital funding proposed for my Department will be used to further develop the Northern Ireland driver licensing scheme to ensure compliance with the new measures to be introduced by the third EU directive on driver licensing by January 2013. My Department has also been provided with £1·5 million from the Executive’s invest-to-save fund for the Roe Valley hydroelectric scheme. The remainder of the proposed capital funding is necessary for a range of internal business-critical capital projects.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his response. Given the great reduction in the capital budget, can the Minister detail how local councils will be affected?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Previously, £200 million was set aside for the capital waste infrastructure fund. We have looked at and addressed the issue and have had discussions with waste management groups, and it was established that it would be better if that funding were made available on a recurrent basis, because most of them are involved in PPPs. The requirement for recurrent funding will not kick in during this financial year, and it will probably not kick in in the next financial year either. In the third financial year of the Budget period and thereafter, we will, potentially, be in a position in which recurrent funding will be required. In that sense, the £200 million was not the right model for delivering the waste infrastructure programme, and we are currently in negotiations with DFP to seek a way forward on recurrent funding.

Pól Callaghan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The Minister will be aware that, in its Budget response, PWC suggested that the Department would no longer be in a position to fund site purchases or to finance projects and that that would create potential cost implications for local government. Further to the answer that the Minister has just given to the House, can he outline any discussions that he has had with local government about ways to mitigate any such potential impacts of the current draft Budget?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We have been engaged with the three waste management groups in particular, because that is what the large capital budget had been set aside for. As I indicated, it was identified that the best way forward was through recurrent funding for the PPPs. There may be a requirement for a small figure, in government terms, of some millions of pounds to acquire a site for one of the waste management projects, but we certainly do not need a £200 million capital budget to deliver the waste infrastructure programme.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Question 5 has been withdrawn.

George Savage (UUP, Upper Bann)

6. asked the Minister of the Environment what contingency measures are in place if the plastic bag levy does not raise the revenue anticipated. (AQO 1155/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

A plastic bag levy can only be implemented once the relevant legislative powers are in place. It will also be necessary to establish a means of collecting the revenue, which will inevitably give rise to implementation and administration costs. The Executive’s draft Budget 2010 allocation for my Department includes a receipt of £4 million, based on the potential income that would arise from the introduction of the plastic bag levy. The Department’s proposed budget has, therefore, been reduced in each of the Budget years by that amount, and that amount has been reallocated to the green new deal.

As the timing quantum of the revenue that may be raised from the plastic bag levy is still uncertain, the range of environmental programmes that have been identified in respect of river restoration, environmental noise, marine resources, mineral mapping, fly-tipping and repatriation of waste may have to be suspended or postponed pending revenue from the plastic bag levy. My officials will continue to explore alternative funding or delivery options for those programmes, but it may be necessary to postpone some of the environmental projects while monitoring the risk of potential EU infraction. Should the risk of infraction increase, my officials will seek to reprioritise work from across the wider Department and ensure that elements of the environmental projects are taken forward, to minimise that risk.

George Savage (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his detailed answer. He will know that my party has severe reservations about the Single Use Plastic Bags Bill as it stands. Given that he has already committed to spending the money that he hopes will be raised, will he detail how he will prioritise the areas for expenditure if the worst case scenario happens and the money that they hope to generate falls short of expectations?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I have no doubt that, if we introduce the plastic bag levy, it will bring forward a fairly significant revenue stream. Currently, 190 million plastic bags are used in Northern Ireland. Even if there were a 75% reduction at 10p a plastic bag, that would still raise just short of £5 million. There is a significant opportunity to raise revenue through that. The green new deal is to the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland. It will benefit people who are living in fuel poverty, and it will benefit our environment by reducing the amount of carbon going into the atmosphere. The aspiration of having an environmental levy that is reinvested into measures that can be of benefit to the environment is a good one.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Has the Minister made any formal bids to the Executive to find the necessary funding to break the funding link between important environmental projects and the plastic bag levy?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I have been in discussions with the Department of Finance in relation to the next financial year, as I do not believe that there will be any revenue raised through a plastic bag levy in 2011-12. I am hopeful that we will get some funding to cover that period.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

7. asked the Minister of the Environment when the river basin management plans will be published. (AQO 1156/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Northern Ireland Executive approved the publication of the river basin management plans for the north-western, Neagh Bann and north-eastern river basin districts at their meeting on 5 November 2009, and those plans were published on 21 November 2009. Publication of the river basin management plans is a requirement of the water framework directive, and all 27 EU states were required to publish similar plans by that date. The river basin management plans were formally launched at a reception in the Belfast Harbour Commissioners’ office, Corporation Square, Belfast, on 21 January 2010.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for that information. Perhaps the Minister will outline the next steps that are required not only to protect habitats but to meet EU directives.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Nine local area management plans are being developed and will be operational in 2010-11. They cover Ballinderry, Burndennet and Foyle, Bush, Lagan, Lough Neagh, Lower Lough Erne, Owenkillew, south Down and Strangford, and Lecale. We are producing a local management area plan for the upper Bann that will be developed and made operational in 2012-13, and it is planned to make it available on the NIEA website in the autumn of 2012.

Ken Robinson (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Minister take on board the fact that river basins are also in urban areas? Many urban streams and rivers are beginning to be regenerated by angling clubs etc and are subject to pressure from extensive housing developments. Will the Minister take that into consideration when dealing with river basins?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Of course; it has been taken into consideration for many years. When a developer comes forward with a proposal and Water Service says that it does not have the sewage capacity to deal with it, the development cannot proceed or the developer has to take alternative steps to deal with that sewage, if he wishes to proceed, to ensure that rivers are maintained in a clean way. I mentioned that the River Lagan was a local management area. Of course, the River Lagan runs through Lisburn on its way to Belfast, which is the largest conurbation in our country.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

8. asked the Minister of the Environment what initiatives his Department will propose to address the concerns of the public in relation to climate change as highlighted in the environmental statistics report. (AQO 1157/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Climate change presents a challenge for Governments and citizens across the world, and the UK is in the lead in facing that challenge. The Climate Change Act 2008 introduced the world’s first long-term binding framework to tackle climate change. My Department and I work closely with the UK Government and with the other devolved Administrations on developing domestic, European and wider international policies and strategies to address the threat posed by climate change.

In Northern Ireland climate change is the responsibility of all Departments. To co-ordinate that effort and to ensure full participation across government, a cross-departmental working group on greenhouse gas emissions was established in 2010 under my chairmanship as Environment Minister. The principal objective of the group was to agree a cross-departmental action plan setting out the strategic approach and actions to be taken to meet the greenhouse gas reduction target in the Programme for Government. The group concluded that the Executive’s Programme for Government target to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 25% below 1990 levels by 2025 will be met and possibly exceeded. Northern Ireland is also preparing for our changing climate through three main work streams: the provision of evidence relating to climate change; raising awareness about climate change while helping others to take action; and ensuring and measuring progress on climate change adaption.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for that response. He spoke about people helping themselves. What resources will be made available to local authorities to enable them to mitigate the impact of climate change?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We are not making resources available to local authorities other than assisting them with expertise and expert advice. Like everyone else, local authorities have a contribution to make to ensuring that we meet the requirements of the Climate Change Act 2008. In their work, whether in transportation or facilities management, local authorities need to reduce the carbon that they produce. It will be the role of local authorities to reduce the carbon that they produce. That is not necessarily punitive. Dungannon and South Tyrone is a fine example of a local authority that has a landfill facility from which it catches methane and uses it to produce electricity. That demonstrates how a local authority can reduce the amount of carbon going into the environment while generating an income for the council. That is a logical way forward.

Declan O'Loan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, North Antrim)

The environmental statistics report also showed growing public concern about the impact of household waste disposal. What further does the Minister feel that he and his Department need to do to allay that growing concern?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Our target is to divert 50% of waste from landfill by 2020. That target will, I believe, be not merely met but exceeded. The current level is about 36·5%, which is significant given that we started some nine years ago at 5%. We are making real progress. A number of councils are leading the way, and I trust that others will follow. I am prepared to look at rewarding councils who do well and punishing those who do less well, so that Northern Ireland is not dragged down by councils who do not step up to the plate. My intention is to revisit the targets. I do not think that the 50% target set by the EU is testing enough for Northern Ireland. We should aim for a higher target of 60% of waste or more going for recycling or composting. That would be financially beneficial.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Question 9 has been withdrawn, Paul Givan is not in his place to ask question 10, and question 11 has been withdrawn.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

12. asked the Minister of the Environment what action his Department has taken to encourage good environmental practice in companies. (AQO 1161/11)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

My Department has carried out various activities aimed at encouraging good environmental practice in companies: sponsorship of WRAP to work with business in various sectors to deliver increases in recycled materials; development of a better regulation programme that has as its key aim helping the Northern Ireland economy through modernising and simplifying the regulation of business through guidance; sponsorship of NetRegs, a trusted free source of guidance on environmental legislation for UK business; supporting the UK-wide voluntary agreement with the major supermarkets to work towards a 50% cut in the number of single-use carrier bags given to customers; the Rethink Waste communications campaign, which aims to raise awareness, encourage best practice and achieve behavioural change, with dedicated sections for households, businesses and the community and education sectors in Northern Ireland, to reduce the amount of waste sent to landfill; the aggregates levy scheme; the EU emissions trading system; the carbon reduction commitment; the energy efficiency scheme; sponsorship of the Northern Ireland environmental benchmarking survey carried out by Business in the Community’s ARENA network; and delivery of a series of seminars to raise awareness in businesses of environmental regulations.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his detailed answer. Will he include in that list Michelin, in my North Antrim constituency, which has been one of the leaders in encouraging good environmental practice? The message that must go out is that, in many respects, following good environmental practice is not an impediment to business but something that should be encouraged. Michelin is a prime example of that.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I could not agree more with the Member. Michelin’s environmental manager is one of our key advisers and sits on the team that looks at these issues. Michelin is a worldwide brand and, as an organisation, now recycles something like 98·5% of its waste. As a consequence, the large bill that it used to have for sending that material to landfill has been replaced by a large cheque that runs into hundreds of thousands of pounds. These things do not have to be a punishment to business. Rather, good business practice arises from good environmental practice, and Michelin leads the way.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

That concludes questions to the Minister of the Environment. We now return to —

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have no desire to question your authority. However, is it in order for me to request that you read Hansard and reflect on the relevance of the question that I asked as a supplementary to question 3?

My question was a natural follow-on from Dr Farry’s substantive question and subsequent supplementary question, and gave a specific example of tensions between local government and the Department. So, although it was described as not being relevant, I ask the Deputy Speaker and the Speaker’s Office to reflect on the relevance of the question, which was about the tension between local government in Omagh, which wants to sign off on a lease to a local hurling club, and the Minister’s refusal to facilitate that, for reasons best known to himself.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the Member for his point of order. I will reflect on it, look at the Hansard report and respond accordingly.

Executive Committee Business

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

We face challenging times and a challenging Budget to go with them in the days ahead. The economic landscape has changed dramatically over the past number of years. Many people in the private sector have found themselves unemployed. The construction sector has suffered greatly, as have the manufacturing, business and finance sectors. Those who are fortunate enough to have a job in the private sector will have faced possible pay cuts of up to 15%. Therefore, it is very important that we, as politicians, get the Budget right.

With the type of government that we have, with five parties involved, it was always going to be difficult to get everything that we wanted in the Budget. There will be bits and pieces in it that we do not like and will be hard to swallow, and there will be risks and dangers ahead. However, the people whom we represent are looking to us to show leadership, to make decisions on their behalf and to push the Budget through after it has been agreed by as many Members and parties as possible.

I have concerns for the construction industry and the manufacturing, business and finance end of things. I am very concerned for the retail sector in our towns and cities over the coming years. As I come from and represent North Antrim, I am particularly concerned about the towns of Ballymena, Ballymoney, Bushmills and Ballycastle, and every village the length and breadth of North Antrim. I know the fears and concerns of the independent retailers in those towns for the year ahead, so it is very important that we try to alleviate those concerns as far as possible.

The level of unemployment in Northern Ireland has more than doubled since 2008, and many in the private sector have lost their jobs. That can clearly be seen in the construction industry, which has lost an incredible amount of manpower. It is clear that our form of government has not helped the Budget process. We need to get to a position as quickly as possible where we have a voluntary coalition in place whereby government would be much more focused in policy, decisions and direction. I would welcome a meaningful debate on that in the new mandate to get to that position as quickly as possible.

We are where we are. It is very important that, while the current structures are in place, we try to work them as positively as possible, because that is what our people expect. Having talked to many people who work in the public sector, they are prepared for this Budget, what it means for them and what it means for society as a whole. People in the public sector recognise the hurt that there has been in the private sector over the past number of years, and they are ready for pay freezes and other such measures.

I welcome the transfer of resources from current to capital expenditure. That will relieve some of the pressure on the construction industry, and the industry will very much welcome that.

I also welcome the proposed social investment fund, which will provide £20 million each year to spend on revitalising our marginalised and most deprived communities, and the proposed social protection fund, which will be funded to the tune of £20 million in the first year and will then rely on additional receipts. Those funds are badly needed to counter the negative effects and outcomes of the welfare reform agenda and to provide assistance and support to those families and communities that will suffer most as a consequence of that agenda.

I have spoken before about how I yearn to see the day when Departments think more about preventative spending. Therefore, I was not filled with confidence when I saw how long it took Departments to develop and publish their savings plans and spending plans. That is a shame, and it has hurt the confidence and credibility of the House and the Executive. It was important that Departments took the consultation period seriously and understood what it meant to the public to be able to respond meaningfully to their plans. From an early stage, the Minister of Finance and Personnel urged Departments to do just that. He stressed how important that was and has been proactive in doing so himself. Departments were asked last May to start work on their savings delivery plans. The Executive met at Greenmount College on 6 July last year, and Departments were asked to plan on the basis of a 5% cut per annum last May. Therefore, it should have been easy for Departments to publish their plans sooner, and again the character, reputation and credibility of the Executive and the Assembly were damaged by their failure to do so.

It seems that we have tried to protect the most vulnerable in our society in the Budget, while trying to enhance the economy. I stressed that I wanted to see that throughout the process, and I feel that we are as close to that as we possibly could be. We try to be as positive as we can, but we know that the Budget will have impacts on our society, our communities and in the home. We cannot be flippant about that at any stage of the process or as we move into the budgetary term.

The Budget gives a degree of protection to the Department for Regional Development’s capital expenditure. That Department has the largest capital budget, at around £500 million, which is 34% of the overall capital spend. However, it is responsible for the transportation networks that are the veins and the arteries of the body that is Northern Ireland and our economy.

We must actively seek and implement efficiencies across the public sector, while rebalancing the local economy and creating the circumstances for private sector growth. This is our opportunity as an Assembly and an Executive to do that. To do that with the form of government that we have, it is vital that there be a joined-up approach and partnership in the House and the Executive, and between the public sector and the private sector, to deliver for our people and for Northern Ireland. We must create a Northern Ireland that is sustainable, successful and socially responsible.

Importantly, the Budget is for a four-year term. The business community, the construction industry and everyone else involved pleaded with the Assembly to publish a four-year Budget, and it gives the local economy and businesses the possibility to forward-plan. Householders up and down our Province know that they are in a bad place, but they are prepared to work at it. They can see the future through the forward planning that is the four-year Budget. We do not need to talk about how bad the situation is, because householders live it day in and day out.

I believe that the Budget will protect the vulnerable in our society and help to grow the economy so that it starts creating wealth again for all our society to enjoy.

It is clear that the Executive have made it a priority to continue to invest in Northern Ireland’s infrastructure and to do as much as possible within the constraints of the Budget and the money that is available as the result of Tory cuts. The contribution that the construction industry makes to the local economy has been well documented and has been proven with many lobbies and debates in the Chamber. Every pound spent in the construction industry realises a wider benefit to the economy of £2·84.

Throughout the Budget process, decisions have been made by individual Ministers and Departments, one of which was to cut £75,000 from Young Farmers’ Clubs. I welcome the fact that the Minister has looked at that matter again and has provided funding for the Young Farmers’ Clubs. There was deep concern in the rural community about the effect that the cut would have in the countryside while not making a dent in the Minister’s budget. It is important that Young Farmers’ Clubs continue to receive that level of funding and, if possible, that it is enhanced when things are brighter.

These are challenging times, and this is a challenging Budget. However, we should not shy away from making hard decisions or, even worse, making no decisions at all. We have been placed in the House to represent our people, to work for them, to stand up for them and to make decisions that affect them and their families on a daily basis.

There should be decisive political leadership to create economic stability to instil confidence and provide hope for the future, despite the backdrop of the recession. We need to reduce barriers to private-sector growth and job creation. I believe that the draft Budget does that in the best way that it can. There are things in the draft Budget that we could be concerned about, and there may be pitfalls and dangers. However, if there is a sense of construction in the Assembly, and if we can go forward in a positive manner, the draft Budget will benefit the people in our country.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Basil.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

It is good to see that I got started with the comments from stage left.

We have talked about this matter for a considerable time, and a number of issues have been raised that are worth teasing out. I am disappointed that, although I have been quite generous in taking interventions in some of the other debates, that has not been reciprocated. When people have made statements, they have not sought to argue the point. I have read the Hansard Report and have found that the Minister of Finance and Personnel did not give way on a number of issues. I was surprised at him, as I know him to be an excellent orator and in full command of the detail. I am sure that, under normal circumstances, he would be happy to engage.

One thing that is particularly disappointing is the challenge that comes from Sinn Féin. I notice that the Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel is not in his place. However, he threw out comments about Tory cuts and that this was a heinous crime visited on us by other folk. He does not seem to realise that, if it were not for our place in the Union, we would not have the money to run Northern Ireland. He does not seem to realise that for every pound that we raise in tax, we spend £2, or that Northern Ireland is part of an economic union that takes its place in the world economy, and that it is constructed in that way. Like many other regions of the United Kingdom — the north-east, Scotland, Wales, the Midlands, and the south-west — we draw money from the Exchequer because that is the benefit of having an economic union. It is pretty rich for a party that refuses to take its seats to castigate the money that comes from the taxpayers of the United Kingdom and allege that we are not able to challenge those things. That party has seats and is in a position to influence those matters, but it does not take those seats.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way, and I agree with his point. I will continue the point: when we accept the fact that we are part of the United Kingdom and that the money allocated to us comes from Westminster, he will then accept the fact that our Budget difficulties are due to the party for which he advocated that people should vote. That is why we face difficulties in our Budget.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

That is a somewhat strange argument. I agree with the sentiment that our money comes from the block grant and with points that were made in the past about the Barnett consequentials. I simply wonder why anyone would have any argument. Members on the Benches to my left have continually chanted about Tory cuts. Is this somehow irresponsible?

I cannot understand how people who have fiscal knowledge and know the challenges that face our economy fail to understand that, at the moment in the United Kingdom, for every £4 that we spend, we borrow £1. That is simply unsustainable and cannot go on. Action must be taken to deal with that.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

Will the Member give way?

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I will in just a minute.

I do not particularly like it, but I realise that tough choices have to be made. Burying our heads in the sand will not get us anywhere. What my party wants is a responsible, inclusive, democratic working out of what is in the best interests of all the people of Northern Ireland. We do that not by throwing brickbats at one another but by having a mature and open debate.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I listened carefully to what he said, and clearly he takes a more pragmatic view on the cuts than some of his party colleagues. Some realism is being introduced from those Benches. Nevertheless, the leader of the Conservative Party, who is now the Prime Minister, in the run-up to the last general election, very clearly indicated —

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Order. The debate is about the Budget Bill and what is in it. It is not about why cuts were made or who is responsible for them. I ask Members to return to the subject matter: the Budget Bill and what is in it.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I am grateful for the Deputy Speaker’s direction on the matter. He will understand that there are certain elements that overrule that, but I understand his point. Will the Deputy Speaker allow me just a little bit of latitude? He may not do that, of course. He is in the Chair, and I respect his position.

We are debating the Budget and how we go forward. There is an issue here about being financially responsible. My party wants to make an argument about why the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety (DHSSPS) is the priority and why it should receive more funding. We want to say to the Assembly and to people at large that that is an issue for all of us. Each and every one of us is affected by health issues. I do not say that we cannot find efficiencies or that we cannot work together to find out those things. The trouble with the Health Department is that it is so all-embracing. I doubt whether there is anyone in the House who has not been affected himself or herself or had parents, children or known others affected by health issues. Many people have visited Members’ constituency offices and spoken about the importance of health issues. Each and every one of those cases is a tragedy.

Within the overall envelope of the funding available to the Assembly, we make the case for why there should be more money for health. People say that there are two options if we are to do that: we either get more money from the block grant, which is why Mr Givan’s comments are relevant, or we take money from one Department and give it to another.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I will offer this comment just to help the Member. He said, accurately enough, that we borrow £1 for every £4 that is spent. However, will he consider that there is an alternative, being explored in the United States and in Germany, which is to stimulate recovery in the economy and broaden the tax take? That would result in a different Barnett consequential in this region. The fact of the matter is that we are left with a £4 billion hole in the economy which was caused by the approach of the Tory-led coalition in Westminster.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I am happy to take the point. People talk about reflating economies, but we must face the fact that the public sector is approximately 70% of Northern Ireland’s economy. We are actually looking for the other 30% to take the strain. A significant amount of that 30% was based in construction, which, as we know, and as Mr Frew pointed out, is one of the hardest-hit sectors. Given the available options, I do not see how we can find additional funds in the short term. We do not have the tools or the infrastructure to do it — nor, potentially, do we have the right to do it, because that probably rests with Westminster.

I am happy to engage on the issue of drilling down and making efficiencies and savings. People talk about working together and removing the silo mentality. However, there is a strange perversity about things like hospitals being closed because we all accept that we have to make savings, but then everybody standing outside with placards that read “Save our hospital”. Somewhere along the line, we will either have to find more money or make savings.

The most distressing issue is the issue of silo mentalities. We are not in a position to work out collectively our Programme for Government, or to a have a real, frank discussion about working together with a bit of mutual respect and understanding. That is the issue that has to come forward.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I appreciate the responsible approach that the Member is taking. He will find a lot of support on these Benches in respect of the wrongness of silo mentalities. What advice would he give to his own Health Minister, who, at an awayday that was set up to consider how we could constructively advance his arguments, arrived late and left early?

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

The Speaker has previously given advice that, even though interventions may drift off the main point of the business, it is not necessary for the person who has the Floor to follow. In this case, I will leave that debate for another day.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Was that not in the Bill?

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I am not sure that that particular point was in the Bill.

There is an issue; Members have talked about having a responsible attitude. Many Members will have looked at the election results across the border. I was struck by the way in which they dealt with Budget challenges that are similar to the ones that we face in the Budget Bill. They promised nothing but austerity and the fact that they were going to have to take tough decisions. They promised nothing but the fact that they were going to have to share their frustrations and concerns with the general population. They put forward a determination that they would try to make things better. We should be doing that in the Assembly.

Part of the problem that we have with the Budget Bill is that it is long on rhetoric but somewhat short on detail. The devil is always in the detail, and we have to look at where we will have to make really hard choices.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not know what the Member is talking about. He says that the Budget Bill is long on rhetoric and short on detail. Has he not read what this debate is about? This debate is about a Bill that authorises the spending of money for the next four months.

It does not contain, it is not designed to contain, it is not meant to contain and it could not contain any spending proposals, because we have not agreed it yet.