Northern Ireland Assembly, 12 September 2011

346 contributions from 61 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask for your guidance and information on some matters relating to the business of the House. It is more than four months since the Executive came to office, yet no indication has been made to me, as a Member, of any prospect of any plan for how they propose to govern through a published Programme for Government. I ask that you, as Speaker of the House —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Before you say any more, I must tell you that that is not a point of order. That is clearly a matter for the Executive, not for the Assembly. The Member may disagree with me on that, but in this House, at this minute, that is not a point of order. I ask the Member not to proceed down that road and to consider where he may end up.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

You did not hear my question. It was whether you, as Speaker, have any information as to when we might expect a Programme for Government.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Let me impress upon the Member as clearly as I can that that is not a point of order. It is not an appropriate point of order for the House. I will now move on.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is on a different matter: the business of the House and the level of deference shown to the House. Yet again, a matter that should have been announced to the House, namely the important statement on tuition fees, was directed publicly to the media several days before any statement to the House. Have you, as Speaker, any view about what that does to the standing of the House?

The third matter that I want to raise is whether you have any information as to when, if at all, the House will receive a statement from the Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP) about the review that was supposedly carried out on special advisers?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I will take your first point of order first. I always encourage Ministers to come to the House before they go to the press. However, on that particular issue, the Executive took their decision and the Minister made a very brief statement to the press.

I received a letter on Thursday at 5.00 pm, which noted the Minister’s clear indication to come to the House with a further statement. Therefore, on this occasion, I believe that the Minister acted appropriately. I agree with the Member that there have been occasions on which Ministers have been inclined to go to the press before coming to the House. However, on this occasion, the Minister acted appropriately in going to the press with a brief statement and then coming to the House with a further and wider statement. I believe that the Minister in question, Dr Farry, acted in an appropriate manner.

Sorry, what was your second point of order Mr Allister?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

It was whether there was any indication of a statement from DFP on the supposed review carried out on special advisers.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

It is a matter for the Executive and for individual Ministers as to when they come to the House with statements. The Member will know that all I can do is to encourage Ministers to come to the House with statements as frequently as possible. However, on all occasions, it is up to Ministers, and the First Minister and the deputy First Minister, to determine when to come to the House with any statement on any matter. That is not really the job of the Speaker. All I can do is to encourage Ministers to come to the House with statements at appropriate times.

Executive Committee Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

We will now move on to the next item of business, and I welcome all Members back after the summer break. I wish to inform Members that two Bills have received Royal Assent. The Budget (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 and the Damages (Asbestos-related Conditions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. Both became law on 25 July 2011.

Ministerial Statements

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment wishes to make a statement to the House.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, regarding the meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) in trade and business development sectoral format. The meeting was held in the offices of the North/South Ministerial Council in Armagh on Monday 25 July 2011. The Executive were represented by me in my capacity as the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, and by John O’Dowd MLA, the Minister of Education. The Irish Government were represented by Richard Bruton TD, Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. This statement has been agreed with the Minister of Education, and I make it on behalf of us both.

The Council received a presentation from the chairperson of InterTradeIreland, David Dobbin, and its CEO, Liam Nellis, about its performance and business activities. Ministers discussed progress on the development of InterTradeIreland’s corporate plan 2011-13 and its business plan 2011.

The main focus of the meeting was a discussion on co-operation on innovation. InterTradeIreland has specifically dedicated resources to increase collaborative participation on the EU research, technological development and innovation framework programme, and it has established a steering group to increase such collaboration. The Council noted the success of the Collaborate to Innovate conference, which was held in Belfast on 30 June and which aimed to increase co-operative participation in current and forthcoming EU framework programmes. Ministers also welcomed the continuing success and development of the US-Ireland research and development partnership, and the initiation of a study to determine the characteristics of an innovation ecosystem across Northern Ireland and Ireland. InterTradeIreland’s draft annual report and accounts for 2010 were also noted.

The Council noted a number of additional matters, including Tourism Ireland’s annual report and accounts 2010 and a determination that was made by the board of Tourism Ireland on the remuneration on its chief executive. The resignation of Mr Hugh Friel from the board of Tourism Ireland Limited was noted, and Ministers thanked him for his contribution as chairperson. They also approved the appointments of Mrs Ann Riordan as chairperson of Tourism Ireland Limited and Mr Jim Flannery as its director.

The Council agreed to meet again in trade and business development sectoral format on a date to be confirmed. I commend the statement to the Assembly.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for her report. I note, in particular, that InterTradeIreland has specifically dedicated resources to increase collaborative participation on the EU research, technological development and innovation framework programme, and that a steering group has been set up. That is a very important development. When does the Minister see the steering group getting down to work and bearing fruit by increasing collaboration, which is essential to accessing EU funding in this area?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Chairperson for his question. I very much hope that the steering group is already down to work. The conference that was held in Belfast in June was really a signpost to action. As you know, we have been working hard on framework programme (FP) 7 to try to get as many small companies, in particular, to work together along with universities to try to access the huge amount of funding that is available to us from Europe. As a result of the conference, we felt that it was necessary to set up the steering group to get more and more out of Europe.

As the Member knows, we have moved on to look at the next framework. If I am correct, it is not being called FP8 but Vision 2020. I was quite comfortable with it being called FP8, because I could remember that. It is vital that we continue not only to draw down money but to obtain more money. Indeed, the economic strategy for Northern Ireland that is being developed very much puts an onus on research and development and innovation, and the commercialisation of that research and development and innovation. At the next sectoral meeting, we will have a report on how the steering group is taking those matters forward.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I agree with the Chair of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment that the formation of the research and technological development innovation framework programme is very important. Does the Minister agree that it is vital that we involve small and medium-sized enterprises in the work that will be done under that programme to increase collaboration and that we ensure that those organisations have much the same opportunities to engage in research and development as larger organisations?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Yes. I thank the Member for his question. Part of the difficulty in the past has been the question of scale and the bureaucracy and amount of form filling that has be done before money is able to be drawn down from Europe. Indeed, when Máire Geoghegan-Quinn visited earlier this year, she heard that point time and time again from me and, indeed, from many business leaders from across Northern Ireland. It is vital that InterTradeIreland continues its work with small businesses. InterTradeIreland is already working very closely with small businesses across Northern Ireland through its Acumen, Innova and Fusion programmes. All those programmes are designed to work with small and medium-sized businesses. It is important for me as Minister that small businesses begin to move on to the next stage of drawing down those European funds.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. I thank the Minister for her statement. I welcome the increased progress on collaboration and co-operation on an all-Ireland basis, particularly with regard to tourism. Following the appointment of the new chairperson and director of Tourism Ireland, what are that new management structure’s main priorities, apart from the drive to increase golf tourism in Ireland over the next year?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

During the meeting, there was only a very brief mention of Tourism Ireland because it was, of course, a trade and sectoral business meeting. However, I am happy to answer the question. The chairperson who has been put in is just an interim chairperson until the new chairperson can be appointed. The new director is also in place. Just last week, I announced a £12 million advertising campaign to draw more people into Northern Ireland. As the Member will know, next year is a huge year for tourism in Northern Ireland. The year 2012 is a signature year across Northern Ireland. Therefore, I am challenging all the tourism industries, whether the Belfast Visitor and Convention Bureau, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board or Tourism Ireland, on how we can give stand out to Northern Ireland across the world and take advantage of 2012.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for bringing the joint statement to the House. Did the presentation by InterTradeIreland include an assessment of whether Her Majesty’s Treasury’s contribution of £7 billion to the bailout of the Irish economy brought any benefit to Northern Ireland’s exporters, or are we suffering as much as everyone else?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member mentioned two different areas, and he may want to direct that question to the Minister of Finance and Personnel when he makes his statement. The Member is aware of our position on exports, and that it will be a major driver for us over the coming years. In the past, many small companies used the Republic of Ireland as a test bed for exporting products before they went into the wider world. There have been problems there, including difficulties arising from the Republic of Ireland’s sovereign debt crisis and the reduction of available money across Northern Ireland and the Republic. Some of our firms have had difficulties in gaining money from some companies in Southern Ireland but we are working very hard at ways to innovate to get exports to the Republic of Ireland.

An example of that can be seen in the way that the Superquinn issue was dealt with. I intervened directly when the Musgrave Group took over Superquinn to ensure that small businesses in Northern Ireland were not disadvantaged by the takeover. That has turned into a good-news story, because the Musgrave Group has said that it will guarantee that suppliers in Northern Ireland that worked with Superquinn will continue to do so. I see this as an opportunity to increase the market share for Northern Irish companies in the Republic of Ireland, and I will support them in that.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Have discussions taken place about how we can learn from the experience of the Republic in how to orientate our research and development offering, particularly in view of the anticipated reduction in corporation tax, which may well stimulate activity in that area?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

If the reduction in corporation tax comes about, there will be more focus on Northern Ireland as a place to do research and development. However, even now, a lot of companies from across the world come initially to do research and development in Northern Ireland and proceed with the commercialisation of what they are able to discover. That is used to bring more investment into Northern Ireland. We have seen that happen with American companies, which first bring about five or 10 people to Northern Ireland and then come up with a 50- or 60-person proposition.

The Member said that we could learn from the Republic of Ireland about research and development. However, there are other countries across Europe that we could also learn from, particularly some of the smaller Eastern European countries, which seem to be able to do this very well. Although we will look at all that happens, we certainly will not just look to the Republic of Ireland for learning on research and development.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement. What measures have been put in place to stop the duplication of work between InterTradeIreland and Invest Northern Ireland?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is the first issue that I took up with the board of InterTradeIreland when I had my first meeting with its board. There is absolutely no point in InterTradeIreland doing the same job for Northern Ireland companies as Invest Northern Ireland. I am glad to say that there has been progress because a lot of the programmes that have been developed by InterTradeIreland are specifically engineered to deal with companies with 10 staff or fewer, so it is adding value to the work that Invest Northern Ireland does here, and that is continuing. Meetings take place between the chief executives of Invest Northern Ireland and InterTradeIreland to ensure that duplication does not happen. We are dealing with public funds, and therefore we need to proceed in the most appropriate way.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I also thank the Minister for her statement. She mentioned the Collaborate to Innovate conference that was held at the end of June, and said that it was very successful. Will she explain how that success is measured and quantified?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

On the day of the conference, there was the fact that there were so many academic institutions from across Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and businesses of all sizes there and that they were able to network. I am happy to share with the Member the list of people who attended the conference.

Obviously, we will know about the output of the conference at a later stage, because it takes a while for networks to develop into propositions and propositions to move into applications to FP7. However, I am satisfied that the conference was successful and that we shall see its outworkings in the future.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I welcome the statement, Minister, and thank you for all of your efforts on the economic front. However, when I talk to some business interests, they tell me that we could do more, and perhaps your reference to Superquinn and Musgrave shows that there are opportunities to do more. Are we pushing InterTradeIreland as much as we can, or are we just in a low gear? What can we do to push forward with North/South developments in trade, business and, basically, in growing jobs here?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. I think if he was to speak to some of the executives in InterTradeIreland they would think that they were getting pushed enough. However, I will continue to push at them, because I think that there are some developments that are coming across to me at present about a level of protectionism that is growing up in the Republic of Ireland. That is something that we need to challenge at all times. In a free market, we need to be able to allow our companies to export into the Republic of Ireland, and it is therefore something on which I will keep a close eye, and I will challenge InterTradeIreland to make sure that it does not happen.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Minister, there have been many of those structured cross-border meetings with the Republic about trade, investment and all things economic. In contrast, can you tell us how many times since coming to office that you have met with UK trade Ministers to help enhance the indigenous, internal trade of the United Kingdom? Would the perceived imbalance not be one of those things that encourages the sort of nonsense that we had to listen to from your colleagues in the Waterfront Hall this weekend about the supposed economic advantages of Irish unity?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I continually say to the whole House that questions need to be on the particular statement, not on a wide issue or other issues that are outside the statement. I want to remind the whole House.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

With respect, Mr Speaker, I said, in light of the imbalance, what impact does it have? On a more specific matter, the Minister approved or noted the salary now paid to the —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I really must insist that the Member should come to his question. We should not have long statements around a question, and I insist that the Member comes to his question.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I would if I could.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Member has already asked a question, and I am going to ask the Member to stay in his seat until the Minister answers the question.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I do not know if the Member was watching RTÉ all weekend — I certainly was not — but I do not think he would have seen any of my party colleagues in the Waterfront Hall. First of all he asks me a question, and then he says, “In light of the imbalance”, so he is actually trying to answer the question before I have answered it. The reality is that the Republic of Ireland is an export market for Northern Ireland, and the rest of the UK is not an export market for Northern Ireland, because it is the same market. He needs to understand that. Of course, I talk to my colleagues in Westminster in relation to the matter, and I am quite happy to give the Member any of the details that he requires, because I am sure he is very well aware that questions can be put to the Minister in writing.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I have been informed by the Minister of Finance and Personnel that he wishes to make a statement to the House.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The North/South Ministerial Council met in special EU programmes sectoral format in Armagh on 18 July 2011.

The Council last met in that format in January 2011. Michael Noonan TD, the Republic of Ireland’s Minister for Finance, chaired the 18 July meeting, accompanied by Brendan Howlin TD, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I represented Northern Ireland, accompanied by junior Minister Martina Anderson.

The Council noted that the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB) will continue with its current complement of 65 staff in 2011 and 2012, falling to a number in the fifties in 2013 and a number in the forties the following year. The Council agreed that a further staffing review would be completed at the end of 2012 to confirm the precise numbers. It also discussed the Special EU Programmes Body’s work in progress to develop its corporate plan for 2011-13 and its business plan and budget for 2011. Those are likely to be presented for Council approval in September 2011. Mr Pat Colgan, the chief executive of SEUPB, updated the Council on how SEUPB’s work had progressed since January 2011.

The Council also noted that the closure of the 2000-06 Peace II and INTERREG IIIa programmes is nearing completion. The Peace II programme was fully committed, with a total expenditure of around £820 million. The total expenditure on INTERREG IIIa was around £162 million. The Council noted progress on implementing the current Peace III and INTERREG IVa programmes. As of 30 April 2011, Peace III had approved 144 projects, worth some £225 million. At the end of May 2011, INTERREG IVa had approved 56 projects, worth approximately £147 million.

The Council noted that Peace III had spent £70 million in total and was therefore close to achieving its 2011 spending target of £74 million. In contrast, INTERREG IVa had spent £43 million, compared with a target of £55 million. INTERREG’s spending performance reflects, in part, somewhat slower progress in committing the programme’s funds. SEUPB assured the Council that there was no risk to achieving this year’s INTERREG spending target of £55 million and that the 2012 target was also likely to be achieved. However, the body reported a significant risk to achieving targets in 2013 and 2014. SEUPB advised that it is managing that risk and that it will work closely with officials from the relevant Departments to ensure that all future targets are achieved. The Council noted that local authority-based groups have had 19 projects approved, worth some £22 million under INTERREG IVa. A further batch of local applications in the policy areas of enterprise and tourism are under assessment, with the first approvals likely in the autumn.

SEUPB informed the Council that the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) had recently completed its first estimate of community uptake under the Peace III programme. Based on the funding allocated to date — approximately half of the Peace III budget — NISRA estimated the Protestant community uptake at 46% and the Catholic community uptake at 54%. SEUPB noted that that was an interim analysis and that a further estimate would be commissioned later in the life of the programme, when more funding had been allocated.

The Council noted that SEUPB continues to facilitate North/South participation in the INTERREG IV transnational and inter-regional programmes. To date, 51 projects with Northern Ireland partners have successfully applied for funding across the four programmes for which Northern Ireland is eligible. The Council noted that SEUPB continues to communicate the positive impacts of the EU programmes through high-profile publicity events, many with ministerial involvement. Recent events have included the launch of the Ilex peace bridge in Londonderry on 25 June 2011. A major seminar on the INTERREG IVa programme is planned for later this year.

The Council noted that, in keeping with its statutory remit, SEUPB will offer advice to assist in the preparation of programmes for the new EU programme period 2014-2020. It was agreed that the Council would meet again in Special EU Programmes sectoral format in October or November this year.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement and for the opportunity to discuss it with him earlier.

I am sure that the Minister will share my concern, which is in the report, about the risks to achieving the spending targets in 2013 and 2014. Can he reassure us that everything possible is being done to work with SEUPB and all other partners to ensure that that risk is reduced as far as possible? That leads to a discussion about future Peace and INTERREG funding in the 2014-2020 period, given that that underspend will have a negative influence on securing additional funding. What is his Department doing to promote the cause for additional Peace funding and enhanced INTERREG funding from 2014 to 2020?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The Chairperson rightly identified that any underspend would weaken the case for applying for funds for the 2014-2020 period, and, given the profile of present INTERREG IVa spending, it is estimated that there could be a substantial underspend. Of course, much of that spending is on construction projects, so, given that we are trying to eke out as much capital spending as we can, it is essential to our economy. So, it is important. We have been through the issues as to why there have been delays. In some cases, it was because projects did not come forward quickly enough. Sometimes, even when money has been allocated, there has been slowness in getting it spent, and, sometimes, there have been delays in getting programmes approved when there has been input from Departments on, for example, business cases. That multiplicity of reasons has to be addressed. SEUPB has assured us that it will address them, and my officials will push it on that.

The future programme, of course, will be taken forward by the UK Government, and we have already had discussions with officials. Indeed, my officials are in regular contact with London officials — almost on a weekly basis. We would like a commitment from the UK Government in the autumn on pushing for spending beyond 2014. The Irish Government have indicated that they are supportive. The Westminster Government have indicated support for this, but I suppose that it is a case of timing as to when they make it known to Europe that they intend to push for further spending after 2014.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I remind the House that, apart from the Chairperson of the Committee, Members should ask one question to the Minister on the statement; they should certainly not make further statements. In addition, the question must relate to the statement. If Members go outside the statement, they will be asked to take their seat, and I will move on to the next Member.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement to the House. I appreciate that he gave figures showing 54% funding to the Roman Catholic community and 46% to the Protestant community. What mechanism is SEUPB putting in place to address the imbalance in funding? I appreciate that money is getting to the ground, but I would like to ensure that a fair process is in place so that the Protestant community capitalises on money coming from Europe.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

In previous statements to the House, I have made it clear that that issue has been raised at all the sectoral meetings. I will give a word of caution about the figures that we presented today. We are about halfway through the programme, and approximately half the money has been allocated. Of the half that is yet to be allocated, about 60% of applications are from what would be called the Protestant community. Therefore, on the basis of the imbalance in the applications still to be dealt with, I expect the percentage to go up.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair)

The figures of 46% and 54% are distorted a little by the fact that one of the big projects on which £8 million was spent, the Ilex bridge in Londonderry, would have been attributed mostly to the Catholic community. Had that been taken out, it would have been about 50:50. Nevertheless, there always was an imbalance in Peace I and Peace II. So far, the situation has improved with Peace III. A lot of outreach work has been done. In my constituency, many organisations such as community groups, the Orange Order etc have acknowledged that the SEUPB is talking to them to try to encourage them to put forward programmes and projects. Hopefully, that will help to remove the past imbalance.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I also thank the Minister. I trust that he is keeping the pressure on Mr Colgan. I am concerned about the end of the current period: we must spend the money, otherwise we will be in a very weak position to negotiate an extension. Will he update us on the Maze project and the £20 million that has been earmarked for that? Is that in the current lot of projects?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I do not have the details of all of the projects that are still to be evaluated. I cannot remember, but I think that about 61 projects are to be evaluated and are being looked at. I do not have the details of all those projects, but I will write to the Member about the one that he mentioned.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. Was there any discussion at the meeting of the use of SEUPB funding by certain victims’ groups? Will the Minister update the House on that issue?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Since the groups to which, I presume, the Member is referring are still under investigation, he knows that it would be totally inappropriate for me to make any comment on that.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for the statement and the update. My question follows on from what was said on the other side of the House. Given that Peace III funding is premised on shared future objectives, does the Minister agree that statistics that focus solely on uptake in a shared-out manner, i.e. Protestant versus Catholic, is unhelpful and that it would be better to assess Peace III on the basis of outcomes that are focused on integration?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

There are not pockets of money in Peace III for one community or the other. Projects are assessed on the basis of their attractiveness, what is being presented and the case that is made for them. However, one has to recognise that, in a society as divided as ours, there always will be some focus on the way in which the funds have been allocated. If there are communities that should benefit from Peace money but do not, we should look at the size of the problem and at what can be done to deal with it.

It is very odd to hear this from the Alliance Party. I have said time and again that I want to see us move away from the focus on how many Catholics are employed and how many Protestants are employed. The party from which the lady comes was the very one that promoted the Fair Employment Commission, the Equality Commission and all the quangos that delve into that all the time. It has permeated our whole society. I find the question a wee bit odd from her, especially since her party seems to be the one that most wants to promote the bodies that delve into that and dabble their fingers in it regularly.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement. How will the SEUPB ensure that all future targets are met in 2013 and 2014?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

This afternoon, I have been open with the Assembly that there are difficulties, especially with the INTERREG IVa money. First, SEUPB is well enough resourced to deal with that. Secondly, it is aware that there is a problem, and, thirdly, it is aware of the issues that may have caused that problem. My officials will work with SEUPB, Departments and the bodies that are funded to ensure that we do not have that shortfall. It may well be that we have to look at some mechanisms for dealing with that, perhaps introducing some bigger projects, which will ensure that the funds are soaked up. The important point is that those projects have to stack up. We will not spend money for the sake of spending it. They will have to be projects that meet the criteria that are laid down and make some contribution.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Mr Basil McCrea.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

On this occasion, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will pass.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome the figures that the Minister has announced today on the improvement in distribution inequity, although he did give a health warning on that. The Minister will be aware that, in the Protestant, unionist and loyalist community, weak applications have come in because of a lack of competence, confidence and capacity. As we, hopefully, move forward to Peace IV, what will the Minister ensure will happen to ensure that that capacity is improved?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I am really glad that I have left the Member for Lagan Valley without a word to say. That is an unusual situation for him, but it is good to see that he is in that position. Hopefully, that will happen more frequently during this session of the Assembly.

The Member for North Belfast asked what can be done to help groups. If we say that we have to build capacity to allow people to make more robust and competent applications, we are probably approaching the issue from the wrong direction. On some occasions, we should ask SEUPB, “What can you do with the system so that people do not have to have all that expertise to make applications? Why do the applications have to be so convoluted? Why does the information have to be addressed in a certain way, and why do you need almost a new language to make some of the applications?”. The Member is quite right: that gives an unfair advantage to people who have become application junkies and who know how to do the job and have done so many times before.

The first thing that I would say to SEUPB is, “Can you make the process a bit easier for people so that they do not require a huge degree of expertise?” It should really be doing that at this stage. Of course, there are ways in which some help can be given, and perhaps some of the organisations themselves should look at that. Last week, I spoke to a group, and it seems that, although there are lots of groups associated with it, they never shared any information on what was done to make a successful application. That expertise remained with the group that had made a successful application rather than being spread around the associated groups.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He said that the body reported a significant risk to the achievement of targets in 2013 and 2014. Is the Minister aware that it has taken considerable time to process applications to decision stage? I have written to him about that. It is having a detrimental impact on the outcome of potential projects that could bring about economic regeneration at a time of economic downturn and when challenges are being faced by local communities.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I am aware of that, and I think that I made that clear in answers to previous questions. Some of that may be due to the complicated procedure in making the applications and the information that groups are required to get. They have to get consultants to do work for them, and there is slowness in SEUPB. Of course, they sometimes argue that, when business cases go to Departments, they can be slowed down there as well. There is a host of reasons for it, and my officials are working with SEUPB to ensure that we do not have the kind of shortfall that I have highlighted to the Assembly this morning.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Given the community imbalance, does he anticipate a further programme and, perhaps, a potential change of direction for Peace funding?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I have given information to the Assembly this morning that there was some distortion because of the £8 million for the Ilex bridge. About half of the programme funding is still to be allocated, and about 60% of the applications will come from what is broadly described as the Protestant community. I hope that the final figure will be much more balanced than the figure that I gave this morning.

I have found no resistance — in fact, I have found great support — from Ministers in the Irish Republic, who have also made it clear at the sectoral meetings that they expect SEUPB to ensure that funding is allocated on a basis that is seen to cover all the community. I want to make this point: I do not wish to see quotas for the money. I have resisted that time and again, and I hate the whole equality industry that has grown up in Northern Ireland. However, in unionist areas, such as the one that I represent, there are groups that could benefit from Peace money and could do a good job with it and make a difference in their area, but they are perhaps not getting it at present. I want to remove the barriers — whether those groups believe that they will not get it so do not bother applying, or whether it is a matter of the difficulties that were referred to by the Member for North Belfast — so that the funding can go to the communities that deserve it and to the communities that should qualify for it anyway.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. Following on from his last comment, my question is about NISRA estimates on Peace III. Does the Council take any view on whether the Peace III criteria favour one community over the other? The Protestant/unionist/loyalist community is seen to be quite badly fractured, and, indeed, there may be so many factions within it that they need to reach out to each other before they can meaningfully engage in cross-community dialogue, which is at the core of Peace III. That issue needs to be addressed urgently.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I am not aware of and no one has drawn to my attention any criteria that impact in the way that the Member has suggested. I can think of some examples where money has been allocated to what are called — here is some more Peace III jargon — single identity groups. It is felt that money needs to be spent to enable them to get on the first step and to do exactly what the Member has suggested. So, I do not know that that is an impediment or, indeed, that the criteria create that impediment.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

How many of the INTERREG IVa projects are linked to job creation? Has there been any appraisal of why there has not been as much spend as people had targeted and whether match funding is a problem for people trying to realise the potential of that fund?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

First, all the spend will, to one extent or another, be job-creating, whether that is in the construction of projects or in the employment of people who run the projects. So, spending money will, by definition, create employment.

As I have said in previous answers, I do not think that any one impediment or barrier has been identified. A range of issues has been identified, right from the beginning of the process, from the quality of the applications to the assessment of the applications and, sometimes, when the money has been allocated, the slowness in starting to spend it. To me, that is an odd situation, especially at a time when you would have thought it would be easy to get firms to tender for work. However, throughout the process, we find examples of delays for all the reasons that I have given.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Did the Minister take the opportunity of the Council reviewing staffing matters in the SEUPB to raise the gross disparity in the community backgrounds of SEUPB staff? If not, why not, given that this has been worsening, to the point at which a recent reply from him confirmed that, of the 49 staff employed in SEUPB offices in Northern Ireland, only 14 — two in seven — come from the Protestant community? That is a wholly unacceptable statistic, and, with the remainder of the staff employed in Monaghan, the overall picture is so much worse. So, did the Minister take the opportunity to raise the persistent failure to address and to better the representation of the Protestant community in the staffing complement of SEUPB? Might there just be a nexus between that and the disparity —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order. Will the Member come to a question?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

First, I am surprised that the Member raised that question, because, in times past, he and I would have taken the same view, the view that I expressed here today: I am sick and tired of all this equality industry, which insists that you select people for employment on the basis of their religious or community background. I want to see the best people for the job doing the job. On occasions past, I remember going with the Member to the Fair Employment Agency, as it then was, and berating the unfortunate Bob Cooper for his obsession with community background, percentages and everything else, so there seems to be a bit of a turnaround.

Secondly, my big concern is to ensure that cross-border bodies of this nature are not bloated and do not grow and that they use the staff they have efficiently. That is why I concentrated on saying, “Do you need that number of staff? Are there efficiencies which can be achieved? And let’s have a programme of reducing the number of staff, so that we have a more lean, more efficient organisation”. That was my chief emphasis.

If the Member has evidence that people applied for and were refused jobs in SEUPB because of their community background, that is a different matter, but, if he thinks that I will go down the route of saying that there must be a certain percentage of Catholics and of Protestants, regardless of their qualifications or their ability to do the job, he has the wrong person.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

You do not care. Two in seven do not matter.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order. That concludes questions on his statement to the Minister of Finance and Personnel.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I am grateful for this opportunity to address the House on the future for higher education in Northern Ireland and tuition fees. As indicated last week, the higher education funding deal agreed by the Executive last Thursday is an extremely good news story for Northern Ireland. Our student representatives and others have already gone on record to commend the decision. It is important that we recognise that this deal is not about students in isolation but about our economic recovery and the future prosperity of Northern Ireland, to which our students and universities are so critical.

Members will recall that we were here just before the summer recess to debate a motion that the Committee for Employment and Learning tabled on higher education funding. During that debate, I was given a very clear message. That message, which was delivered on a cross-party basis, was that tuition fees should not be increased. Furthermore, the strong consensus was that I should go to the Executive to seek the necessary resources to make up the very significant funding shortfall to my Department that would arise from adopting such a position on tuition fees in Northern Ireland.

It may be helpful if I take a few minutes to remind Members of the financial position facing my Department. To address extant pressures, my Department needs to achieve savings of £150 million annually by 2014-15. Some £68 million of those savings have been targeted at the higher education sector, and that sum is proportionate to the level of investment in the HE sector relative to other DEL business areas. The sector is contributing £28 million in cash savings over the next two years by way of a 12% reduction in the teaching and research grant. In addition, it is addressing internal pressures associated with, for example, pay and price inflation, VAT, National Insurance contributions and pensions, and it is absorbing other reductions in income associated with the cessation or reduction of specific funding streams for innovation and research. The balance of that £68 million was expected to be funded by an increase in tuition fees. The decision to hold fees at their current level, with inflationary increases only, therefore means that the balance of the £68 million cash reduction — £40 million — has to be found from other measures. I will come to that shortly.

Funding decisions in England will see English universities charging fees of up to £9,000 from next September. Those fees will help to offset the reduction of around 80% in the core teaching grant that is currently allocated to English universities and will bring increased income into the sector in England, which is estimated at 10% over the comprehensive spending review (CSR) period.

In England and Wales, fees have been used to shift the balance of funding between government and the service user. An increase in fees in Northern Ireland was a viable option that merited consideration by my Department. It would have allowed additional revenue to be brought in outside the context of the block grant and would have avoided the otherwise inevitable decisions to reprioritise resources within the overall Northern Ireland Budget. However, in Northern Ireland, we wanted to take a different approach: one that continues to maintain the current balance between public funding and user contribution. That balance reflects the Executive’s priority of growing the local economy through maximising participation in higher education and recognising the critical role that our local universities play in producing graduates with the necessary skills to meet existing and new economic opportunities, as well as recognising their centrality to research and development in Northern Ireland.

As I indicated, there is no support for significant increases in the fees charged here. Therefore, arising from the local political consensus against above-inflation rises in fees, the clear consequence is that the resultant funding gap has to be addressed. That gap will be £15 million, £30 million and £40 million in each of the three forthcoming financial years, and the final figure will then become a recurring annual pressure. Those are hugely challenging issues, and it has required significant effort to bring us to an acceptable solution. I am grateful to my Executive colleagues for the leadership and foresight that they have shown. By agreeing to take a collective approach to higher education funding, they have recognised the economic importance of investing in higher education and supporting efforts to raise skills here and, in particular, to provide a critical mass of highly skilled graduates.

The decisions reached by the Executive last week mean that I can now confirm that higher education tuition fees for local students in Northern Ireland will be kept at current levels, subject only to inflationary increases, and that a funding package has been put in place to address the resultant budgetary pressures while ensuring the sustainable funding of the higher education sector. My overarching concerns are to ensure that Northern Ireland continues to have a world-class higher education system and that access to university is not determined by the ability to pay.

As we look to grow our economy and to take full advantage of the economic opportunities coming our way in the near future, it is critical that we support and recognise the role that higher education plays in producing skilled graduates and in research and development.

Today’s announcement on tuition fees and funding for higher education demonstrates that we are delivering on those policies and commitments. These decisions are a clear indication that the Executive are working for Northern Ireland — for our future students and graduates, for their families and for the wider economy. Furthermore, that commitment to skills, research and development and a knowledge-based economy is a clear signal to potential investors and others that Northern Ireland is open for business.

Of course, these decisions are not without pain, nor are they without risk. I have agreed that my Department will provide leadership in addressing the funding deficit through shouldering a significant proportion of the burden. In the 2014-15 financial year, my Department and the higher education sector will find £22 million to meet that pressure. That will be done without any further reductions to the critical front line services provided by my Department, including further education, skills in industry, apprenticeships and the employment service, beyond those anticipated in my savings plans. That £22 million includes a further £5 million contribution from the higher education sector, already factored in through discussions with the universities. A considerable element of that will be financed by charging higher fees to students from England, Scotland and Wales. The remaining £17 million pressure will be addressed through my Department’s generating further internal savings in addition to those initially required for Budget 2010, and from money that I had identified for what would have been higher notional loan subsidy costs for students in the event that above-inflation increases in tuition fees had been introduced.

I had initially considered using the savings resulting from the notional loan subsidy to provide for a larger expansion of student places, but the Executive felt that it was financially prudent to assess the actual distortions in student flows, and to consider additional resources in due course. In addition, the £22 million contribution is partially offset by £3 million coming from the Executive to my Department to allow us to begin to address the inescapable pressure on student places locally that will arise from having different fee regimes in different parts of the United Kingdom.

The balance of the overall £40 million pressure and the initial investment in additional student places will be met by other Departments, with the exception of the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, the Department of Education, and the Department of Justice, and from a review of the education maintenance allowance. I fully acknowledge the implications and pain for the other Ministers and Departments as their budgets are adjusted to enable the Executive to contribute collectively to the funding deficit that arises from the decision not to increase fees by more than inflation.

Following agreement by the Executive, my officials and I will work with our counterparts in the Department of Education to develop a consultation document on the education maintenance allowance, for approval by the Executive in the autumn. I wish to stress that, unlike England, we are not looking to abolish the education maintenance allowance (EMA). Rather, the review is targeted at unlocking the inefficiencies within the current system and ensuring that young people who require assistance continue to receive it. The review should also be placed in the context of the overall access agenda for higher education and the overall protection of the education budget in this settlement.

I recognise that the settlement reached with the Executive and the overall funding package create many challenges for all the Departments involved, including my own, and for the higher education sector, which is already facing substantial reductions and other cost pressures. However, I believe that the decision by the Executive can be justified on the basis that we are working collectively to invest in the economy and to address the critical challenge of upskilling the workforce. It is important to recognise that maintaining tuition fees at current levels, subject only to inflationary increases, demonstrates the importance that we place on access to higher education.

Of course, like others, I would have liked to have been able to do even more on access, but there are inevitable trade-offs between available funding and limited resources. It must be remembered that we work within the context of a block grant. That having been said, maintaining the level of tuition fees here and ensuring a sustainable higher education sector will clearly help to ensure that we continue our proud record of having the best higher education participation rates in the United Kingdom for those from socially disadvantaged backgrounds, while ensuring that our universities and colleges can remain internationally competitive.

It is important, too, that I highlight the risks up front. Having different fee and support arrangements in each jurisdiction of the UK will create an enhanced risk of distortions in student flows. Around 30% of our undergraduates currently study in other parts of the UK, while a smaller percentage study in the Republic of Ireland. It is too early to predict how the tuition fees and student support arrangements of each Administration may impact on or influence behaviour with a resultant increase or decrease in the number of our students going to Great Britain or the Republic of Ireland or in the number of students coming here from Great Britain or the Republic of Ireland.

I know that many of our young people want to study in Great Britain for a variety of reasons. The decision by the Executive means that I can confirm that we will continue to provide tuition fee loans for Northern Ireland-domiciled students who attend university in any part of the United Kingdom. Those loans will be available to cover the cost of a loan up to a maximum fee of £9,000. I am sure that that will allay the concerns of many young people hoping to enter higher education in September 2012. However, that decision does have a significant cost implication for my Department and is an issue that we will need to monitor carefully. If there are increased cost pressures from changes in student flows, the Department may have to review this decision for new students entering higher education in future years.

Some Members have referred in the past to a brain drain, whereby our young people leave to study elsewhere and do not return to Northern Ireland. Although I am pleased to announce that we will provide tuition fee loans for young people who opt to study in Great Britain, I would be even happier if they were also able to return to work here and to apply their skills in the future.

That brings me to the issue of places for students here in Northern Ireland. We anticipate that increased fees in the rest of the United Kingdom will result in greater demand from Northern Ireland students to have the opportunity to study at home. We need to be responsive to that demand. Although the decisions on meeting the overall budget shortfall mean that I have very limited funding available to allow me to increase the number of student places in Northern Ireland, part of the package agreed with the Executive will allow for a modest increase in supply across higher education providers. We will work with higher education providers on this issue. Any additional places we are able to introduce during the CSR period will help to meet the expected increased demand from local students. In recognition of the importance of being responsive to the needs of industry and business in Northern Ireland, those places will be targeted at science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) subjects only.

Anything we are able to do to increase student numbers will contribute towards protecting our participation rates, particularly among those from low-income backgrounds, as the extra competition for places locally may lead to those with lower or marginal grades being squeezed out. Those students are disproportionately from disadvantaged backgrounds.

I turn now to students from Great Britain who wish to study in Northern Ireland. I believe that it is important that we have a diverse student population in Northern Ireland and that our local universities should be open to students from all jurisdictions. However, I want students coming here to do so for the right reasons: because of the quality of our institutions, the quality of the university life and the future opportunities that are open to them. I do not want the determining factor to be cost. For those reasons, I can confirm that my Department will shortly be bringing subordinate legislation to the Committee for Employment and Learning that will allow our universities and colleges to charge higher fees to students from other UK administrations. We want to avoid a parochial situation in which our universities service only a local market. Equally, we should not be seen as a cheap option.

Consequently, tuition fees for students from other parts of the United Kingdom will be higher than those for our own students, but they will be no higher than what our students would have to pay if they were studying in England or Wales.

Turning to support for living costs, the key point is that the options set out in the consultation paper were linked to the level of fees that might be charged. As I am not increasing tuition fees above inflation, I can confirm that our current grant levels will be maintained. That means that they will be £225 higher than the levels recently announced for England. Higher education providers will also continue to be required to provide bursaries to eligible students from low-income backgrounds.

The options set out in the consultation paper for the repayment regime were also linked to the level of fees that might be charged. As fees will not be increased above inflation, the current regime will also remain. That means that repayment will not begin until after borrowers leave higher education and are earning above a specified threshold. The earnings threshold is currently £15,000, but it will be uplifted by inflation each year throughout the comprehensive spending review period.

The quality of Northern Ireland universities is also important. At present, our two universities are increasingly recognised for the quality of their teaching across the UK and further afield and are respected as a source of leading-edge, world-class research. They have trained most of the professionals who work in Northern Ireland in science and engineering, business and legal services, health, education and many other sectors. They attract more than 50,000 students a year. Participation rates, particularly for those from lower socio-economic backgrounds, are the highest in the UK. However, they are not only seats of learning. The higher education sector also makes a significant contribution to the local economy by acting as a hub for research and innovation; actively engaging in knowledge-transfer activities; promoting entrepreneurship; and providing industry, the professions and the public sector with experts and leaders. Clearly, we need to ensure that that excellence and quality can continue. There is no point in holding fee levels down if it means that we are disinvesting from local universities and reducing the quality of their services.

Higher education is an important element of the skills agenda, but it is only one element. My Department’s skills strategy, Transforming Futures, and its associated implementation plan, which I propose to publish shortly, will set out ambitious targets in relation to upskilling our workforce to meet the economic challenges ahead. Equally, I am committed to tackling issues around the levels of basic skills in our society, which will help to address our productivity gap.

The public consultation on tuition fees and higher education funding attracted responses from universities, university colleges, further education colleges, schools, student representative bodies, sector skills councils, trade unions, public sector organisations, individuals, business representative bodies and local development agencies. The range of organisations and individuals who responded to the consultation demonstrates clearly the impact of higher education on the economy, the community and society in Northern Ireland. I am grateful to all who responded, and I am grateful to the Committee for Employment and Learning for its continued interest and constructive feedback.

I have been giving detailed and careful consideration to all the responses received, and much of that is reflected in today’s announcement. A number of other issues raised through the consultation will also be given further consideration in the context of the higher education strategy, which will be published in the autumn.

Details of all today’s announcements will be available on Student Finance NI, NI Direct and the departmental websites. That will include question-and-answer materials to help students, families and others who are interested in arrangements for entry to higher education in 2012. I strongly encourage all to take a look at the sources of information.

In closing, my statement today on future fees and funding is genuinely good news for Northern Ireland. We have agreed a “Made in Northern Ireland” solution, which addresses the concerns of our young people in relation to their higher education prospects, sustains our universities’ standing and reputation in an increasingly competitive global market, and will deliver huge benefits to our economy and to society in general.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Mr Deputy Speaker, I consulted the Speaker earlier this morning and he thought that it would be appropriate for me to say a few words on behalf of the Committee and then to say something on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party.

There are some questions to be asked about the information provided by the Minister, and I am quite sure that the Committee will want to understand more about the risks that the Minister outlined in his statement. He said:

“In the 2014-15 financial year, my Department and the higher education sector will find £22 million to meet that pressure. That will be done without any further reductions to the critical front line services”.

Frankly, I am interested to see how that will be done, because in previous consultations with the Minister and his permanent secretary, I was led to believe that £7 million would be hard to find, let alone £22 million. The Minister also highlighted the fact that there is a risk of differential student flows in different jurisdictions. I do not believe that we have really got to the bottom of that, so we will need to keep an eye on it.

I reinforce the fact that the Committee will no doubt be concerned about the Minister saying:

“that decision does have a significant cost implication for my Department and is an issue that we will need to monitor carefully.”

The Committee will, in the fullness of time, consider those matters and engage with the Minister and his Department.

Speaking on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I would like the Minister to explain why, given the huge contribution by the taxpayers of England and Wales to the people of Northern Ireland, he thinks that it is fair for students from England and Wales to be charged almost three times as much as students from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland or elsewhere in the European Union for exactly the same course.

Will the Minister also explain why he is seeking to increase the number of students at our universities, when 10% of students fail to complete their first year and many of those who do graduate cannot find jobs? Does he concede that encouraging young people into an educational pathway that may not suit them and that does not provide them with the support they need or the skills demanded by industry is a bigger concern than any amount of debt that they may incur?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order, please. A large number of Members have put down questions, and we have just one hour. I think that you have enough questions to occupy you, Minister.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I will take your point of order after we have dealt with the statement.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Committee Chair not just for his questions this afternoon but for the role that he and, indeed, all the Committee members have played in dealing with the issue over the past number of months. It was important that a clear political signal was sent out that there is consensus in Northern Ireland on maintaining the current level of tuition fees and that a collective approach was needed in the Executive to address the shortfall. Indeed, the Committee Chair’s comments have been particularly helpful in that regard.

I do not want to address each and every one of the Chair’s points, but I will address some of them. First, the Chair talked about risks. Let me be clear: there are many risks with the policy announced today. Where there are differential fee levels in different parts of the UK, there will be distortions in student flows, and we will have to manage that. Those risks are an inevitable consequence of the decision to keep fees at their current level. Although we want to keep fees down, we recognise the flip side of the coin. No one is going into this process with their eyes closed to what those risks may be.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear: there is no risk whatsoever with the budgetary figures from my Department and the Executive that have been presented here today. I made it clear all along that it would have been impossible for me to make any announcement about the level of tuition fees in Northern Ireland without, at the same time, securing and having certainty about the budgetary figures. I am sure that the Finance Minister would give exactly the same message that the Executive would not sign off on any revised financial figures relating to the issue unless they were prepared to stand over them. Therefore, the risks that we talk about relate to student loans and not to the numbers in the budget that I have announced today. I have always been clear that I was not prepared to move until there was surety on that issue.

Of course there will be pain for my Department. We have factored in the additional costs as added efficiencies beyond the £145 million that was asked of my Department as part of Budget 2010. Those costs have been factored in and will be internalised in, for example, how we manage the estate and staff issues, such as vacancies, travel and subsistence. I am prepared to make it clear that the arrangement that I have announced today does not come at the expense of further education, the wider skills agenda, apprenticeships or the employment service. For sure, there are pressures right across my budget, and I will continue to highlight them. However, I am not prepared to make a difficult situation worse owing to the higher education settlement. It was always regarded as an issue that had to be addressed discretely.

On the issue of the fairness of charging higher fees to students from the rest of UK, I accept that what we propose to do may seem strange and, to some people, unfair. It is less about raising resources, although that is important in order to make the budget figures work. I stress that, in a situation in which fees are potentially £9,000 in many institutions in England, Scotland and Wales and just over £3,000 in Northern Ireland, we can expect a flood of applications from other parts of the UK. If we are prepared to take measures to protect the market for local students — every one of us has received masses of correspondence from disappointed students and their parents, who are frustrated that they are unable to secure places in local universities — and although I do not like the fact that we must go down that route, when we take a decision on differential fees, that is the inevitable decision that we must take as an Assembly if we are to act responsibly for our citizens.

The issues around the increase in places while people are dropping out are separate. We have to address retention in our universities. However, let us be clear that, equally, there is a requirement to upskill Northern Ireland’s population. As the economy grows in years to come, we are required to produce a higher number of skilled graduates. A large element of Northern Ireland’s productivity gap, not only with the UK but with the rest of Europe, is linked to its skills deficits. My Department will address that across a broad front, but a large element of that has to concern what happens in higher education institutions.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Before I call Mr Alastair Ross, I remind Members of the Speaker’s ruling earlier today that Members should confine themselves to one question.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He is correct to say that prospective students will welcome his decision and that those who aspire to go to university will welcome the fact that they will not have to pay higher fees. However, he referred to the financial burden that that will place on his Department and the significant savings that have to be made. Can he assure the House that that will not be achieved at the detriment of those young people who do not go to university but who still need to be upskilled and get training in order to find a job in the current climate?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Ross for his comments. I am happy to give that assurance. I have a commitment to addressing skills right across Northern Ireland’s population. My Department is the Department for Employment and Learning, not the “Department of Higher Education”. A discrete solution for higher education is needed. I am clear, as I have always been, both internally and in discussions with other Ministers, that we must ensure that other aspects of the Department’s work are protected. Indeed, I will seek to invest further in those areas in the months to come.

Mr McElduff: Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the statement. I ask the Minister to detail his Department’s strategy for widening participation, including perhaps delivering a higher percentage of foundation degree courses through regional colleges. I say that as a member of my party, which states in its manifesto that it absolutely opposes tuition fees per se and, latterly, any increase in tuition fees. I welcome the Minister’s decision. I ask the Minister for further detail on the widening participation agenda to ensure that people from low- and middle-income families and from rural communities can access higher education.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr McElduff for his question. I am always pleased to try to help Sinn Féin to deliver its manifesto.

The important thing to stress about widening participation is that there has been a separate consultation on that as well as a consultation on a higher education strategy. I intend to bring those two consultations together and to make a more detailed announcement on that during the autumn, once this issue has been addressed.

On the particular issue of further education and foundation degrees, it is important to qualify my remarks by saying that we need to ensure that we maintain a distinction between further education and higher education, because they provide distinct roles. However, higher education in further education is something that is of importance to our economy. When you hear me refer to additional places for higher education providers, as opposed to higher education institutions, you may get an indication that I am very open to exploring what we can do through further education.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Like other colleagues, I thank the Minister for coming forward with most welcome news for many families and young people across Northern Ireland. However, it would appear that DEL has taken a big hit and has been short-changed. You can talk about protecting existing services and employment opportunities, but it would appear from your statement that there is an £18 million deficit, which you indicate will be met entirely from the EMA budget. That will cause us major concern, given the not in education, employment or training (NEETs) inquiry that the Committee for Employment and Learning has carried out and the contribution that DEL and other Departments were meant to make.

Given what the Minister is telling the House in respect of additional student numbers across Northern Ireland, where does that leave his commitment to create 1,000 additional student places at the University of Ulster’s Magee campus?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Ramsey for his general support for the policy and his questions.

First, let me stress that this is, overall, a good deal for Northern Ireland. This is a good deal for the Executive: it is a demonstration of the Executive working and delivering for Northern Ireland. This is also a good deal for my Department, and I would not be here and would not have accepted the package in the Executive if I did not feel that this was the best balanced deal for us all.

I recognise that my Department has to provide a leadership role in addressing this issue, which is why we have taken on a disproportionate share of the overall burden. However, that burden has been shared out collectively. An element of the share that my Department has to bear will be addressed through increased efficiencies that will not impact upon front line delivery in the sectors that I mentioned. It also includes an element that will be borne by the higher education institutions.

There is also money that I had originally hoped to be able to use for a more expansive increase in places at this stage. That money, however, has been used to assist with the overall package. The Executive felt that it was more prudent to adopt a wait-and-see approach to see the real evidence on additional student flows before setting aside additional resources, although we can, of course, go back for those resources in due course, and that has been made clear by the Executive. However, we have some money that has been set aside for an immediate increase in places to be discussed and implemented over the current CSR period.

I want to be very clear in case any misunderstandings occur around this. The level of resourcing that we have — about £3 million in the 2014-15 budget — will only allow us to provide several hundred additional places. We cannot be precise until we have proper discussions with all the institutions to work out exactly how those will be implemented. However, based on these figures, it is not realistic to expect an expansion of the Magee campus of the University of Ulster on the scale that Mr Ramsey has set out.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I remind Members that another 14 Members have tabled questions. I ask Members to be brief, and I also ask the Minister to be as concise as he can.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I join the House in welcoming the good news that the Minister brought to the Assembly today. It will ensure that our universities retain their competitiveness and accessibility. My Committee colleagues pointed out that, in its NEETs inquiry, the Committee identified that the education maintenance allowance played an important role in other forms of further education. Will the Minister further clarify the timescale for the review of EMA and how the Committee will play a role in that consultation process?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Lyttle for his support for the statement and, indeed, for his question. I omitted to address the EMA points that the previous questioner made.

Let me be clear: I support the education maintenance allowance in Northern Ireland. I am sure that I speak for the Minister of Education when I say that we both feel that it plays and will play an important role in ensuring that people from disadvantaged backgrounds are encouraged to remain in education. However, within EMA, there is considerable inefficiency. There is money that is not being used effectively, and it is not making a difference in keeping people in education. It is important — indeed, it is the only responsible act for the Executive — to try to release those funds and to put them to more productive uses. Certainly, I believe that maintaining the agenda of having access to higher education is one such use.

At present, EMA in Northern Ireland costs about £28 million. That is split between the two Departments. Indeed, there is some uplift pressure due to increased demand in that regard. We can expect, however, to realise some savings from a review. Certainly, the Committee will be kept fully informed of the consultation once the Executive agree it, and, indeed, it will be an integral part of the decisions that we take on the matter in due course.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He was at pains to try to be as unambiguous as he could, and I welcome that. He talked about a modest increase in supply across higher education providers. For the avoidance of any doubt, will he spell out approximately how many additional places there will be in the CSR period in the University of Ulster at its Belfast, Coleraine and Magee campuses?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Campbell for his question. These are important issues. It was my intention and hope that I would have had more resources for a wider expansion of student places at this stage, but the Executive decided to adopt a more prudent and measured approach. Through to 2014-15, we have £3 million allocated for an expansion of places. At this stage, I cannot be prescriptive about precisely how many that will fund, because we have to have discussions with the higher education providers to work out exactly what sort of courses they want to provide through those additional resources. Obviously, some courses cost more money than others.

We are talking about the overall number of places across Northern Ireland that that level of funding would provide being in the low hundreds. That will be split between the different providers. It is not for me as Minister to micromanage how those places are distributed internally in the universities; it is for Queen’s and the University of Ulster to allocate their shares between their various campuses. I certainly would not direct that at all, although the University of Ulster has made comments about what it views as its priorities. In the light of the more, shall we say, modest scale that we are able to offer at this stage, that is a decision that it may wish to reflect on further.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Ms Michelle Gildernew.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This point of order relates to the order of business, here and now.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Sorry, I have to be consistent. I did not take Mr McCrea’s point of order until after —

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I want to refer you to a ruling that says that those who have not been present in the House throughout the entirety of the statement should not be called until those who have been have been called. I think that you are about to call someone who has not been present throughout the entirety of the statement. I refer you to the ruling of 24 September 2007.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Yes, I give consideration to the ruling. Ms Gildernew was absent for only a very short period of a very long statement, and, on balance, I decided that it was not appropriate.

Michelle Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement and the fact that resources will not be extracted from the Department of Education, which is already under enormous financial pressure. As the Minister said in his statement, given that lower and middle income families are already being squeezed out, it is important that we ensure that those from disadvantaged backgrounds have access to quality primary and post-primary education in preparation for third-level education.

Minister, in your statement, you alluded to the fact that 30% of students leave here to pursue further and higher education elsewhere. How many of those students leave out of choice, and how many leave out of necessity?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for her question. We do not have a precise breakdown of that 30%, but it is a combination of the reasons that the Member set out. At this stage, I am minded that we should continue to fund students who find themselves in that situation. For me to do otherwise would create a two-tier system in which those who can afford to study and pay higher fees elsewhere in the UK are able to leave to Northern Ireland, while those from more disadvantaged backgrounds cannot. It is also worth stressing that some courses, such as veterinary science, are offered only outside of Northern Ireland, and we have a specific obligation in that respect. There is also the issue of those who do not get the necessary grades for the institutions in Northern Ireland, which, as competition for places heats up, may become more acute. It is important that we offer our local residents the option of accessing higher education.

The only plea that I would make, and I am sure that the entire House would concur, is that if students want to go and study elsewhere, do so, but please come back and invest your future in growing the economy of Northern Ireland.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I also welcome the statement. This is a very brave move by the Minister and one that will come as very good news to many of our students. The interest in this subject undoubtedly proves how the work of the Committee for Employment and Learning, and the Department, really matters, despite some of the comments that were made by a certain Member before the summer recess.

However, although we fully welcome the decision, it came on the back of crisis management and the possibility of an entire department having to close in one of our universities as the result of the gap in funding. What provisions are the universities making for the next four years to ensure that in four years’ time we are not back at square one and having to have this conversation all over again?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr McIlveen for his comments. The settlement illustrates how the institutions in Northern Ireland can work. Decisions were taken in time. I will say no more than that, but the various stakeholders involved were extremely keen for us to make clear what was going to happen in the future.

I want to say two things on what Mr McIlveen asked. First, our universities, like all other aspects of the public sector, are addressing cuts that were passed on through my Department. Therefore, the universities will have to undergo pain, and those who are closely associated with both of the institutions will be very much aware of that. Secondly, what is good about the financial package that was agreed by the Executive is that it is hard-wired into my Department’s baselines. It is not a monitoring round solution and it has a degree of permanence. However, it is worth stressing that our understandings cover only the current CSR period to 2015, and there is a potential for the debate to be reopened on both the level of fees and funding. Once the decision has been taken and it beds down, I would like to think that what we are doing today will roll forward into the future, and not least because it has been baselined. However, obviously, we cannot bind future Executives on what budgetary decisions they should take.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, in your statement you said that we have a requirement to upskill our population, but has your Department carried out an analysis of courses that are not available in Northern Ireland? In furtherance to a previous answer, will you detail your Department’s plans to deal with the disproportionate effect of university tuition fees on those would-be undergraduates for whom there is no third-level education provision in Northern Ireland? Included in that are students who wish to study veterinary science, but there are others, and they can expect to be burdened with debts in the region of £80,000 or more on graduation.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

The commitment to upskilling permeates everything that my Department does, from essential skills through to higher education. Indeed, what we do on welfare issues and getting people off the unemployment register is also about skills, including employability skills.

It is worth stressing, as Mrs Overend has done, that there are courses that are not offered in Northern Ireland. We have highlighted veterinary science as the clearest example. For that reason and because we may well have increased competition for places in Northern Ireland, it is important that my Department continues to fund students from Northern Ireland who go to Great Britain. However, I want to make it very clear that we are doing so based on my Department’s current projections. In the event that the cost exceeds what we are currently budgeting for and any additional resources that we can find internally to manage those pressures, we may have to review that policy down the line. As we welcome the decisions that we are taking on fees, it is important to also be aware that, once different parts of the UK have different funding regimes, there will be risks that we will have to manage. If those risks go wrong, we will have to take mitigating measures in Northern Ireland.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Notwithstanding the financial challenges faced by the Executive, and considering the centrality of further and higher education to growing the economy and building the skills base throughout Northern Ireland, will the Minister ensure that all actions are taken to increase the maximum student number (MaSN) cap and thus ensure full access for students, particularly those from low income and working class families throughout Northern Ireland? I think, in particular, of the MaSN cap for STEM subjects for the South Eastern Regional College, which the Minister opened recently.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Ms Ritchie for her comments and echo them. What happens in higher education is central to our economy in two key respects: increasing the number of skilled graduates and the offering of research and development. A disproportionate amount of our research and development in Northern Ireland is focused through our universities compared with other jurisdictions, so we are very dependent on that sector.

In relation to MaSN, I am conscious of the need, and the future need, to increase the number of places offered in Northern Ireland. An inescapable pressure emerging from the decisions that we are taking on fees throughout the UK will have an impact on student flows. The Executive have decided that we will have a modest increase in MaSN at this stage, starting next year through to 2014-15. Once we see the flows in practice next year, we have the potential to go back to seek additional resources based on the actual evidence of the student flows rather than on what is essentially still speculation.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. He is just after saying that what happens in further education is central to our economy, and he referred to risk in his statement. I have raised an issue with the Minister over the last few days regarding the Ballymoney campus of the Northern Regional College. Can he dispel any rumours that there may be an attempt to look at particular campuses for closure over a short period, in some way as a result of the budgetary pressures that his Department will now face after today’s statement?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Storey for his question. There are budgetary issues facing the further education (FE) sector, as there are in any other sector in my Department that was part of Budget 2010. The current level of efficiencies asked of FE is proportionally less than in other sectors in my Department. Therefore, generally speaking, FE has had a good settlement as part of Budget 2010 compared with other areas.

The institutions have to manage their estates, but there are processes in place to do so. On the discrete issue of this settlement, I want to make it clear that not a penny is coming from the FE sector to fund higher education. The FE sector will be judged entirely on its own merits, and I regard its sheer breadth of engagement with the skills agenda to be critical for the future of our economy.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He said that there will be higher fees for students from other parts of the United Kingdom. What level of fees will students coming from the Republic of Ireland have to pay?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

As Mr Elliott probably knows, students from the Republic of Ireland are treated as European Union students and have the same status as those coming from any other part of the European Union. Under EC laws, we cannot do anything but charge the same level of fees as we will for Northern Ireland students.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement and think that it is good news for higher education. However, I am sure that the Minister will have some concerns about the number of young people who are in the NEETS bracket. Young people in my constituency have fallen into that bracket through no fault of their own because there are not sufficient places in either higher or further education. What does the Minister intend to do to help those students?

Will he also clarify a point about the review of the education maintenance allowance? I understand that that is a Department of Education policy and that the £22 million that the Department for Learning and Employment (DEL) has to fund towards the £40 million deficit is not part of that pot. Therefore, in theory, DEL will be putting more than £22 million towards the current shortfall. It will be up to the Education Minister to announce reductions in EMA to a number of students.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question, please.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I have already asked it.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

NEETS is another issue that my Department is working on: we are an extremely busy Department as you can all see. A report was commissioned through the Committee, which I think Mrs Kelly was chairing at that stage. A paper has gone to the Executive for wider consultation. We are working on a NEETS strategy, which we will bring to the Executive and the Committee in the near future and which will, hopefully, address some of those issues.

EMA cuts across the Department of Education and my Department. In crude terms, around 60% of the spend is held in education and around 40% is held in DEL. When we have a review, depending on what decisions we take, there will be a differential impact in how much each Department will be able to contribute to the centre. Those moneys are part of the Executive’s half of the overall equation.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Is it not strange that the Minister has set up this review and consultation, yet he has already factored in the savings that he needs to make? What savings does he need to make from EMA?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

It is not unusual for budget decisions to be taken around anticipated savings from reforms. Bearing in mind the fact that the figures we are announcing today are based on sound budgetary assumptions and very prudent and conservative estimates, it is fair to say that the overall amount that we spend on EMA in Northern Ireland is around £28 million. There is some increased demand on the system given the current economic situation. Equally, there is considerable inefficiency. The current Executive figures are based on realising a sum in the region of £4 million and £5 million by 2014-15. So, even though we may be able to generate greater savings through the reform of EMA, the actual figures that this settlement is based on are a conservative capture of inefficiency in EMA at present.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

In respect of the Minister’s belated statement on tuition fees, I note his determination to assure us all that the huge cuts that his Department now has to bear will not impact on the skill provision and creation of employment opportunities for which his Department has responsibility at present. I am expressing some scepticism about that, given the fact that, for four years, meeting the tuition fee threshold is the Department’s top priority and the fact that there are imponderables such as the possibility — hopefully not — of the mooted challenge in Scotland in respect of the viability of the fees structure kicking in.

Will the Minister really assure us, and does he agree that, if he cannot, it would be a travesty, that young people who do not aspire to go university and who do not have that opportunity should not end up seeing detriment to facilitate those who, thankfully, are going to university? That travesty could emerge unless the most stringent efforts are made. Of course, the Minister could have been helped —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question, please.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— if other Departments had borne their share of the burden, particularly the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) with its many over-funded and underspent programmes.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I do not regard my statement as being belated. I am sure that, if I were here today announcing unilateral fee rises, Mr Allister would be the first person to accuse me of being irresponsible for doing so without budgetary backup. For me, the issues of fees and budgets are clearly inextricably linked. I am here today and am confident of the figures for my Department and for the Executive overall. I am also very clear that there will not be cuts elsewhere in my Department. That was an issue that was going to be addressed for higher education or, alternatively, for the Executive overall, and we have found a combination of the two to address that. So we can be confident of the figures that we have here today.

I assume that Mr Allister shares in the consensus that we do not want to increase fees in Northern Ireland. Once we take that decision, there are implications on budgets in Northern Ireland because we have a fixed block grant, and we have to live with the consequences on our local priorities of the decisions that we take as a devolved Executive and Assembly. That is what devolution is all about.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his announcement today, and I certainly welcome it. If I remember correctly, I think that he told me in hustings on the campaign trail that anyone proposing not to increase fees was being unrealistic, so I am glad that the Minister has joined me in the realm of the unrealistic.

The Minister mentioned the brain drain and the attempts that have been made to keep students in Northern Ireland or to attract them back after their university studies. What is his policy on students coming from other regions of the UK as well as Europe? Do we want an inflow, given the skills that that would bring and the benefits to our economy, or are we trying to discourage that? Indeed, is the future policy to increase the MaSN cap to try to bring as many high-skilled workers as possible into Northern Ireland?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

If people come to Northern Ireland to study, to work or to do both, it is a strong indication of the health of our society and the future prospects of our economy, which is a good thing. In the current profile of our two local universities, there are not many students who come from Great Britain or, indeed, international students who come from further afield. I speak for both institutions in reflecting the fact that they want to increase those numbers to have a diverse student body in Northern Ireland.

The fees that our local institutions will potentially charge for students coming from other parts of the UK will be no higher than the fees that they face elsewhere in the UK. So in some senses there is a level playing field about the choices that they will make. The numbers of students whom we have attracted from elsewhere in the UK and internationally have been artificially depressed because of the Troubles and other divisions in this society.

I will be very keen to see our student body becoming much more diverse in the future. When we talk about student places in the future, international and GB students will be separate from those considerations because, hopefully, those students will be self-financing, and the funds will not have to come out of our block grant.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas an tráthnóna seo. I welcome the Minister’s announcement this afternoon. I want to ask him about the particular point in his statement in which he addressed the issue of an increase in places. He said that he was going to take a wait-and-see approach. When he does that, will he ensure that any increase in places is demand led? The Magee campus of the University of Ulster has made its case, and it has been accepted. When we try to increase places, we should do it on a demand-led basis, and we should look for a maximum outcome. The need for more student places in the Magee campus and the wider social and economic impact that an increase will have are widely accepted by Ilex and in the regeneration plan.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I am very conscious of the interest in the north-west in an expansion in university places. I will be visiting Ilex and the Magee campus on Wednesday. The Member talked about my wait-and-see approach. However, that is an Executive approach, and wait and see is probably not the right way of putting it. We are looking for an evidence-based approach to policymaking, which is not an entirely irresponsible thing to do.

That said, we have secured the resources to allow us to fund a modest increase in student places in Northern Ireland, starting from next year, on a phased basis through to 2014 and 2015. For the sake of clarity and to prevent unrealistic expectations building up, that increase will only provide for several hundred places across all the different providers in Northern Ireland, including the University of Ulster. To be fair, the Magee campus’s plans will not be addressed on the basis of this announcement. However, there is scope to go back to the Executive in due course, over the coming years, based on the evidence of the demand to which Mr McCartney referred, to make a strong case for additional resources. This is not necessarily about resources for the north-west. That will be a bonus if that is the way that it works out; the University of Ulster will have to make those decisions. It will be about the Executive responding in kind to the evidence of increased demand for places from local students.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

That concludes questions to the Minister for Employment and Learning.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was a little disappointed that you were not able to take my point of order during the ministerial statement. I presume that that was because it is not really in order to take a point of order during such proceedings. Perhaps we will get some clarity on that. I would like you to convey to the Speaker my disappointment that I was not able to make my final point in my questions to the Minister. I had taken the precaution of speaking to the Speaker about how to go about it, and I thought that I had carried matters through under his direction.

It seems to me that there is some confusion about the latitude that a Committee Chairperson has in making his initial points to a Minister. Given the interest in this particular issue, we might have had a little more latitude in the matter. That is not an attack on you, Mr Deputy Speaker, but we might, perhaps, have organised things a little bit better. What will happen now is that the debate will take place outside the Chamber rather than within it.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I will respond to the Member by saying that one is, sometimes, not perfect. However, I am sure that Mr McCrea will agree that he had moved on to speak as an Ulster Unionist. Today, the Speaker made it perfectly clear that each Member would ask one question. I hope that the Member also appreciates that there were 20 people down to ask questions, all of whom were accommodated. That was a big achievement for the Minister and for all Members who took the Speaker’s earlier advice and kept their questions concise.

Nevertheless, I understand the Member’s feelings. He had an important point to make, but, in future, perhaps he will make it earlier.

Committee Business

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

As with similar motions, the motion on Committee membership will be treated as a business motion. Therefore, there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mr Paul Maskey replace Ms Caitríona Ruane as a member of the Committee for Finance and Personnel; that Mr Oliver McMullan replace Mr Gerry Kelly as a member of the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure; and that Mr Pat Doherty replace Mr Paul Maskey as a member of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee. — [Ms J McCann.]

Private Members’ Business

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I beg to move

That this Assembly calls on the Executive to make the development of the green economy a priority within the next Programme for Government and to affirm that an overarching strategy for the development of the green economy should be implemented; and further calls on the Executive to bring together existing policies and initiatives, to identify gaps and to address them.

I am delighted that the first motion for debate after the summer recess is on the green economy, which the Alliance Party believes can create new jobs and tackle climate change by developing energy efficiency and renewables. We urge the Executive to prioritise the green economy in the Programme for Government and to agree an overall development strategy.

We need a joined-up approach to address the triple crunch of recession, energy prices and climate change. Businesses are still struggling, and, in February this year, Northern Ireland saw the largest increase in unemployment in the 12 UK regions, with over 59,000 people finding themselves unemployed. Compared with February last year, this year’s figures were up 6·3%, while other UK regions saw a decrease of 9·1%. People who have lost their job or closed down their business ask politicians what they have done to get us out of the economic downturn.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Northern Ireland already has the highest levels of fuel poverty in the UK. Nevertheless, over the past few months, households have been hit further by huge price increases in domestic gas, electricity, coal and home heating oil. This winter, thousands of households in Northern Ireland will struggle to heat their home adequately. Energy costs are also the single biggest competitive disadvantage for local businesses. The Alliance Party sees the potential of new forms of economic growth and employment from the green revolution, and, given our rich natural resources in wind and tides, it believes that Northern Ireland has an opportunity to become a world leader in renewable energy.

The environment sector is one of the fastest growing sectors in the world economy. Other countries are already well aware of that and have embraced green energy. The Danish wind industry employed 28,400 people in 2008 and contributed €5·7 billion to the economy. Germany employed 160,000 people in the renewable energy sector in 2004.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Does she agree that it was rather disappointing that, on a recent trip down Strangford Lough on other business, we saw the SeaGen investment, which was supposed to be a major investment for green energy, sitting doing nothing? We were advised at the time that it would produce good, cheap, clean electricity and bring jobs to the local economy. It is disappointing to see that, for some reason or other, it was sitting doing nothing on the day on which we had our trip.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I agree. I believe that it will be put back together again soon.

In 2004, Germany employed 160,000 people in the industry. That rose to 278,000 following a stimulus plan in 2008 to create a green economy in the country. There is a growing demand for the manufacture of wind turbines, hybrid cars and solar panels, but we are missing out on that potential market. Some of our companies, such as Harland and Wolff, have made small inroads into the sector, but not enough is being done to help to grow the industry overall.

Countries no longer have a choice when it comes to developing renewable energy. European targets for 2020 mean that 15% of the UK’s energy and 16% of the Republic of Ireland’s energy must be renewable energy. Failing to meet those targets will mean huge fines from the EU. If countries are being forced to produce renewable energy, there is the opportunity for us to develop a sector in which we can build wind turbines or tidal technology for the local and overseas markets.

Research has indicated that targeted investment and growth of the renewable sector could create up to 30,000 jobs. Employment opportunities include high-tech manufacturing jobs, maintenance jobs at wind power plants and biomass production jobs in the agriculture sector. Biomass production can often be a very good way for farmers to diversify and gain much-needed grants, particularly from land that does not contribute much to their farms. I am sure that everybody agrees that we have the agricultural expertise to accomplish that, but farmers need help from the Executive to realise that potential. The market can drive a certain degree of innovation and change, but there is a rationale for state intervention, such as providing incentives through the tax and regulatory systems.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Does the Member agree with me and the director of the Renewable Energy Foundation, Mr John Constable, who argues that hopes that the low-carbon economy will deliver thousands of green-collar jobs are “staggeringly far-fetched”?

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I am not sure whether there is evidence to back that up.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

It is from a press statement that was issued by Mr John Constable, who is the director of the Renewable Energy Foundation.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

There are certainly competing bodies of evidence. That is perhaps for another debate on another day. Thank for your intervention, anyway.

Scotland has shown an exemplary way in which to go about creating jobs and investment in renewable energy. The Scottish Parliament passed a law that designated parts of the country and the surrounding waters as a renewable energy enterprise zone. That makes sense because, given Scotland’s location, it has perhaps the largest potential in Europe for renewable energy production. Northern Ireland has perhaps the second best location in Europe, but we are not harnessing the wind and tidal resources that we possess. The Executive must invest more in research and development on renewable energy technology. The cross-departmental group on the green new deal needs to work with all relevant Departments, our two universities, other universities, businesses and NGOs to achieve a strategic and overarching plan to develop the green economy. We have the potential to become world leaders —

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Will the Member give way?

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

Yes, sure. I am getting a lot of interventions.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The home improvement grant used to be available to homeowners, but it has all but dried up. Over the next number of years, thousands of houses will fall into disrepair. Would it not be better to look at how we provide additional grants tied to eco-friendly building, which could put thousands of construction workers back to work?

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I absolutely agree. The retrofit scheme is very important. Insulation is a way to cut energy bills. There is plenty of scope for working with —

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

You had better hurry up.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

Mr Speaker, am I getting an extra minute?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

No.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

Oh dear. There is plenty of scope for working with the South on renewable energy or further development of the single energy network and the North/South interconnectors to create economies of scale. North/South co-operation —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Bring your remarks to a close.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

— can be beneficial to all of us on a green island basis. A green economy will not only create jobs and investment but undoubtedly improve our environment —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Time is up.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

— and help to cut carbon emissions.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I remind Members to watch the clock.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will not give way as many times.

I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. There has never been a better time to consider moving towards a green economy. All too often, we hear of pensioners having to make the choice between heating or eating due to the soaring costs of fuel and food. In the twenty-first century it is simply not acceptable that older people are faced with that unreasonable choice. At the heart of the green economy is resource and energy efficiency, and we must accept that many sources of energy are finite. As they become less available, they become more expensive and, unless we manage them more effectively, they will run out completely. Making homes more energy-efficient tackles poverty, not only for the elderly but for other vulnerable members of society. It is good news that new houses being built for social housing must meet high standards in being low-carbon and energy-efficient. In fact, with strong insulation and ventilation systems, those houses should not require any heating at all. That is good news for tenants in the future.

I welcome the fact that all Departments and agencies are working together to develop the green economy. An interdepartmental working group, chaired by the Department for Social Development, has set up work on the green new deal. DETI, through Invest Northern Ireland, funds the Carbon Trust, which promotes energy efficiency. DEL has issued guidelines to encourage colleges to develop curricula to enable students to develop the skills and knowledge that will contribute to sustainable development. Those are only a couple of examples of how the green economy is already being developed in Northern Ireland.

It is vital that resource efficiency is promoted at all levels of society. In particular, schools should educate young people to promote longer-term, sustainable production and consumption. If we can get the message through now, we will benefit in the future. We must be innovative if we are going to create opportunities for business and employment.

Our workforce must be prepared for the jobs that will be created as a result of the development of the green economy. The areas that will benefit most include the agriculture, building, energy, forestry and transport sectors. Tourism also contributes vast sums to the Northern Ireland economy through the natural heritage as well as built heritage. Yesterday was a European heritage day, and many of our castles, churches and listed buildings were open to the public free of charge. We are sometimes not aware of how much potential is there, and we must find innovative ways to exploit that potential to grow our economy.

For a period, I worked in NIEA, when it was the old Environment and Heritage Service, and I often felt that many of our most treasured tourist attractions, such as Scrabo Tower and the abbey at Greyabbey could do with some investment to encourage tourism, because we now see tour ships and so on coming in. Therefore, as part of the green new deal, we need to look at that whole area and make sure that tourism is encouraged. We have hundreds of sites throughout Northern Ireland, and we need to take a holistic look at how tourism can be developed and at how we can form an overall strategy.

My party broadly supports the development of a green economy. However, in this difficult economic climate, it is important to ensure that public funds be used to provide the best value for money for the taxpayer. That should be our top priority. We on this side of the House support the motion.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Sinn Féin also supports the motion, and I thank the Members who tabled it for bringing it to the House. The green economy is a term used to describe a broad range of economic activities, including improving our environment and quality of air, water and food. I will deal with energy issues in my contribution, because they are most relevant to the motion.

The green economy, in my and Sinn Féin’s opinion, is the future. We have the technology, but we sometimes have to ask ourselves whether we have the political will to bring it about. To support the transition from fossil fuel, we need to make the green economy a priority and invest in it. The green economy can do more than create business opportunities. It can get people back to work, particularly our young people who are leaving our island in their thousands to find work. It will help people who have lost their job in the manufacturing and construction industries, and it provides an opportunity to retrain a workforce for future needs. In my constituency, where there have been heavy losses in the construction sector, there are opportunities for offshore wind farms. I want resources to be dedicated to training a workforce to deliver that. We must take up the opportunity that will exist. We should not allow people from outside the island of Ireland to take those jobs because we do not have the skill base.

Investment in priority areas such as renewable energy, alternative fuel for vehicles, energy efficiency and high-performance buildings are essential to our communities. Energy efficiency projects are of huge benefit to local communities from both an environmental and a jobs perspective. Energy efficiency concepts in buildings, constructions and retrofits —

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree that a green economy cannot be market-led? Green economies require two things: a decrease in the overall quantity of goods being produced and an increase in democratic decisions about the production of goods. Therefore, market economics cannot be applied to a green economy.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an extra minute added to his time.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat. I agree. The most important point to get across is that we need the political will to drive a green economy.

The main aspect of a green economy is that it should take people out of fuel poverty. The Member who spoke previously also talked about that. If we need a wake-up call, we just have to look at prices at the petrol pumps, at the price of fossil fuels and at the huge increases that were announced recently in electricity and gas charges. I think that this is the wake-up call. Fossil fuels will not get cheaper, and they will not be made available to our most vulnerable at a cheaper rate. We have to look at new technologies, and we need to reduce our oil consumption by promoting clean, renewable fuel alternatives.

There needs to a cross-departmental approach to developing effective strategies, which include installing renewable power systems in our public sector buildings, such as the Assembly itself and its estate. We need to ensure that we put renewable power systems into all government buildings, and we need to work towards that in a phased approach. We need to look at district heating schemes and provide planning and resources to deliver them for our communities, particularly where there is a great onus on us to do so. Whenever we build a leisure complex, we should put a district heating scheme with it to provide energy to the houses that are in close proximity.

I will touch on employers who benefit from subsidies to provide renewables, such as offshore wind farms. There has to be an onus on providing a percentage of apprenticeships for local people, and that will, in turn, increase the opportunity to have well-paid jobs in our communities. Last week, I had discussions with a further education college that said that it needed resources to provide training for renewables. I am back to offshore wind energy: if we are to have that qualified workforce, we need to put resources in place. The college told me that a Dutch firm was looking for the college to provide training. When that came to the Department, it said that it would not fund companies from outside the North of Ireland. I find it rather strange that we could be developing offshore wind opportunities and not have a skilled workforce to take up those jobs. I do not think that that is acceptable to the House or to the greater community.

Planning is a big issue, and I think that my colleague will discuss it in greater detail. However, when it comes to anaerobic digestion proposals or to single wind turbines, so is Nimbyism. Those proposals were meant to be fast-tracked, yet they are stalling in the system.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Energy from waste —

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

That is your opinion.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Do you agree with that?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member’s time is up.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Thank you for your leniency, a Cheann Comhairle. I support the motion.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I too am extremely pleased to speak on and support the motion, as I think it is extremely important that we have a seismic shift, if I may use that term, towards a green economy. I am pleased to hear that all the other parties support the motion. I had written in my notes that I would make a little quip about climate change and about whether we believed that it was our fault. It is good to have our colleagues on the Benches to my left support the green economy.

At the beginning of the weekend, we heard President Obama tell us how important jobs are. Over the following two days, we were reminded of 9/11 and terrorism. If we add all that together, it makes the green economy even more important, as we will have greater concerns about whether there is enough money to create the jobs or to keep the economy going so that we have no terrorism at all. We have to get that balance right. We have to get it correct, because we must not forget the green economy. Therefore, I go back to my point: we need a seismic shift towards a green economy so that every decision we make leads in that direction.

I want to take a slightly different route from the other Members who have spoken and concentrate on getting this institution to do — that is, to take the action that creates jobs and to rewire the economy so that it goes green. I read the brief that we had this weekend. It is all very highbrow; it is all motherhood and apple pie. There is very little action in it and very little listing of what should be done and whether we should be buying 200 turbines, planting 10,000 trees or borrowing £200 million. We, in the Chamber, need to get on, produce action lists and start making things happen on the ground.

The documents are full of beautiful prose, but we are not good at producing or having the skill to produce the plans that make it work. We need a timetable, we need to see those plans on the ground, and this institution needs to start specialising in making things happen. When people say, “No”, let us ensure that it becomes, “Yes, let us find a way of doing it”. We need action plans.

We have some targets, but let us have more targets. One target is to have 15% of energy consumed from renewable resources by 2020 or 12% by 2012. However, we need to do that in much more detail. We need to have targets so that we can achieve.

I sat at the alternative energy table at an NIEL conference, where half were for wind farms and half were not. We cannot go on discussing and arguing endlessly. We must produce actions and make decisions based on the information that we have today. We should have targets for hydro, wind, biomass energy, geothermal — I could go on. We need a broad mix. Let us have the decision, and let us have the actions on the ground.

We need to improve our planning system. I have been lobbied hard by alternative energy groups who cannot get their planning through because there are too many little details that need to be resolved. Let us find a way of fast-tracking it and making the rules less cumbersome.

The brief also said that we needed rigorous prioritisation of the activities. Exactly; let us see that happening. Let us see people in all government buildings looking at better ways of using energy. Let us look at all our uses of land to see how we can do things differently. We have the experts on the new wind turbines here in Harland & Wolff. Let us improve our skills and get back to action plans, timetables and a short-, medium- and long-term set of plans. However, we must ensure that we are dynamic and flexible and, most importantly, that we deliver. If we borrow from Obama, we should start working together and start doing. Let us all ensure that no becomes yes. The UUP supports making the green economy a priority.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As we are approaching Question Time, I propose to suspend the debate. The first Member to speak after Question Time will be Alban Maginness.

The debate stood suspended.

Regional Development

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

1. asked the Minister for Regional Development to outline the road infrastructure improvement programmes designed to improve protection of the growing number of cyclists using the roads network. (AQO 249/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his question. The Member and, indeed, the House, will agree that it is always a great tragedy when lives are lost on our roads. I was deeply saddened to learn of the recent deaths of two cyclists in April and August of this year. Of course, we had the more recent tragedies of the motorcyclists Wayne Hamilton and Adrian McFarland who, I understand, is being laid to rest later this afternoon. My thoughts and deepest sympathies go out to the families and friends of all of those people.

I stress that Roads Service is committed to providing safer roads for the growing number of road users, including cyclists and pedestrians, by using a range of measures, such as road safety engineering, traffic calming and enhancement of the pedestrian and cycling network. I recognise very much the benefits to be obtained from infrastructure investment in the short term through construction employment and, in the long term, as a catalyst for wider economic growth combined with the obvious environmental and health benefits of incorporating cycling into an integrated transport system.

The longer term Roads Service target for cycling is laid out in the Belfast metropolitan transport plan and identifies a Northern Ireland-wide target to quadruple the number of trips by cycle by the end of 2015. I am entirely committed to seeking to achieve that target. Cycling has benefited from several years of investment, and the cycling infrastructure laid out in the Belfast metropolitan transport plan is well established. In the 10-year period including this financial year, Roads Service will have invested £8·6 million in the provision of 225 kilometres of cycle lanes.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I should have alerted the House to the fact that questions 5 and 6 have been withdrawn. I remind Ministers of the Standing Order on the two minute limit. I know that I give Ministers some latitude round it, but I am reminding them.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

Minister, I think everybody will be appreciative of your words in relation to those cyclists and motorcyclists who have lost their lives. It is appropriate to make those comments. In order to encourage cycling, one has to make roads safe. I appreciate and welcome the Minister’s commitment to quadrupling the number of cyclists on our roads. How many kilometres of cycling lanes have been built this year in order to achieve that target?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his question. I am also mindful of the advice from the Speaker. After recent events within the Member’s party, I wondered whether he would take the opportunity to indicate his line of thought. Perhaps he could use a cycling analogy to say whether, at this point, he wanted to ride to the rescue of the SDLP or, at least, get his spoke in. [Laughter.] I will ensure that the Member receives the information that he has requested as quickly as possible.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I too sympathise with the families of those who have lost their lives on the roads recently. The Minister recognised the very valuable amount that cycling puts into the local economy. You can see that when you look at well used cycle routes, such as the greenway and the towpath in my constituency. Will the Minister consider a long-term strategy to create more cycle ways and paths to increase the contribution to the local economy?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his contribution. I very much agree. My Department does indeed promote sustainable modes of transport, including cycling, through its Travelwise initiative. Travelwise expenditure during the annual Bike Week campaigns, which relate solely to the promotion of cycling, has seen year-on-year increases over the past four years. My Department is also working on a draft active travel strategy, which is being brought forward under the guidance of the active travel forum. That draft strategy is expected to be issued for consultation later this year.

I can tell the Member that £3·3 million of capital funding has been secured to fund demonstration projects over the next four years, and the provision of cycling infrastructure will be considered as part of those projects.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I understand that investment in cycling was cut in the Budget that was approved earlier this year. Does the Minister recognise that cycling reduces congestion, has environmental benefits, and has health benefits for people such as me who occasionally cycle? Will he be arguing with his colleagues that other Ministers should recognise the cross-departmental benefits that come from cycling?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member, who is indeed no mean cyclist himself. I got on my bike earlier this summer, and enjoyed it, for a limited period, of course.

There are significant challenges with the agreed budget that my Department has to work through and manage. That will reflect on some of the initiatives that we would have preferred to have done and would like to do. I will continue, of course, through monitoring rounds or any other opportunities, to try to improve the overall finance situation, with cycling and other transport issues in mind.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

One of the cyclists that the Minister mentioned recently lost his life tragically on the Ormeau Bridge. The daily flow of cyclists down the Ormeau Road is about 400. The majority of those cyclists go on the footpath, because it is too dangerous for them to go on the road. It is not really about how many miles of cycle lanes we build, it is about where those cycle lanes should be. Will the Minister urgently look at that stretch of road, which is the main arterial route into Belfast?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for her contribution. I am mindful of the sensitivities after that tragedy, and I do not want to specifically refer to that incident. I hear what the Member asks. Obviously, the paramount concern of my Department has to be safety. I will look again at that particular stretch of road, with officials, to see whether any further improvements can be brought forward.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

2. asked the Minister for Regional Development if he intends to respond to the review of the aviation strategy, and if so, if he will ask that consideration be given to the development of an all-Ireland aviation strategy to remove inefficiencies and competitive disadvantage. (AQO 250/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Mr Deputy Speaker — sorry, Mr Speaker. Demoted on your first day back.

Aviation, as the Member will know, is a reserved matter. My Department has been assisting the Department for Transport in London in its work to develop a new UK policy framework for aviation by March 2013. The policy development process is in its early stages, and my Department has been encouraging Northern Ireland’s aviation stakeholders to respond to the Department for Transport’s current consultation on a scoping document designed to shape the main elements of the new strategy. I am monitoring that process to ensure that Northern Ireland’s specific aviation interests are being properly addressed.

As to the suggestion of an all-Ireland aviation strategy, I do not share the Member’s enthusiasm for that and do not intend to progress it.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for his answer, although I am sure that he is as aware as everyone in the House of the real challenges that air passenger duty imposes on our regional airports. Will he reflect on the fact that it would be very much in the interests of our regional airports — not just to their development but to their very survival — if air passenger duty could be included in the context of an updated aviation strategy? Perhaps he will rethink his approach.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I am not sure at which party he sought to love or cherish me, but, nonetheless, he raised the issue of air passenger duty. Of course, there is widespread concern in Northern Ireland’s airports about that issue. It is a revenue and taxation matter, which is being pursued by Executive colleagues in the Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP), Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) and the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM). I am aware of that issue and seek to see it resolved as quickly as possible. As I have indicated, I do not share the Member’s enthusiasm for an all-island approach at this point. We would be sensible to wait for the outcome of the consultation by the Department for Transport in London, seek to influence that and then bring things forward at that point.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his emphatic response in respect of any all-Ireland aviation strategy. In the assistance that he will offer to central government in discussions about an aviation strategy, will he ensure that a much more practical approach will be taken, rather than a political strategy, and that the close proximity that we have in all of Northern Ireland to Ayrshire and the Strathclyde region will be looked at rather than looking at Cork, Limerick and the Republic?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I accept the point that the Member makes. It is a well-made point. We want to concentrate on how that strategy will impact on Northern Ireland airports in particular and on the travelling public of Northern Ireland. That will be the first useful part of the work, and I assure him that we will bring those issues to the fore.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Does the Minister accept that there has been a gross distortion to air passenger traffic through Northern Ireland airports in recent times because of air passenger tax? Given that two Irish aviation companies — Ryanair and Aer Lingus — operate out of Northern Ireland, would it not make sense if some moves were made to try to align what is happening in the North and what is happening in the Republic so that we are not at a continued economic disadvantage?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I understand the point that the Member makes, and I draw his attention again to the fact that air passenger duty is not primarily an issue for my Department. Obviously, I have an interest in it, and we continue to be apprised of progress on the issue, but it is a revenue and taxation matter. I understand its implications, and they are potentially serious, but I am aware that Executive colleagues, including the First Minister and deputy First Minister and other Executive Ministers, are making active representations to find a resolution to it.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

Regardless of whether we have a national aviation strategy, a regional aviation strategy or an all-Ireland aviation strategy, will the Minister ensure that any such strategy protects the needs of residents living close to city airports and/or under the flight paths?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

The Member raises some of the key issues that will impact locally on the eventual outcome of such a strategy, and we are all aware, from a constituency point of view or from a departmental or ministerial point of view, of the concerns of many people, but everything has to be considered in the round, and that is how I intend to approach the issue.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

3. asked the Minister for Regional Development to outline the total spend on minor road maintenance in the Newry and Armagh constituency in the last 12 months. (AQO 251/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful for the Member’s question. Roads Service’s annual accounts for 2010-11 have yet to be laid before the Assembly and, as such, are still subject to audit adjustment. Therefore, I regret that I am not yet in a position to release details of spend in that financial year, but it is anticipated that the annual accounts will be cleared within the next few weeks. However, I will confirm that this year’s maintenance budget for Roads Service’s Newry and Mourne section is £6·4 million, and the Armagh section is £7·1 million.

I appreciate that those sections cover a high proportion of the road network in Northern Ireland as well as areas of the Newry and Armagh constituency, but I assure the Member that funding for those areas is distributed in a fair and equitable way on the basis of need.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he accept that, given the state of many rural roads, it is imperative that the budget be increased to keep those roads up to standard?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

As someone who shares the same constituency as the Member and sees at first hand the impact of the lack of structural maintenance, I have great sympathy for his argument. The budget that I inherited and am now expected to manage has a shortfall of some £210 million for structural maintenance over the next four years, which is obviously a huge sum of money. It will be particularly difficult over the next couple of years. However, I will of course make representations during monitoring rounds and will keep bringing the issue to the attention of Executive colleagues.

The Executive continue to take decisions, and their most recent decision on student fees, aside from its merits, means that my budget has been cut further. That will undoubtedly reflect in some shape or form on roads maintenance. We are all aware of the competing priorities. I am patently aware of the need to maintain a road infrastructure that makes it safe for people to travel on the roads of Northern Ireland.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I was wondering whether the Minister travelled on the Tullyherron Road during his freewheeling this summer. If he did so, he will be aware of how bad the road surface is. I know that representations have been made to him on the issue in the past and, indeed, that he attended a site meeting there. Will the Minister undertake to have that road surveyed with a view to ensuring that its surface is improved?

Mr Kennedy: I compliment the Member on his stalking abilities in respect of my movements throughout the constituency. [Laughter.] I am aware of the Tullyherron Road and will make further enquiries, on a proper ministerial basis, into the present situation there. The Member knows that there is a huge network of roads in the Newry and Armagh constituency and, indeed, in other parts of Northern Ireland. Resources have been significantly trimmed, and we therefore have to make the best use of the money available. I know that the local section engineers Cindy Noble and her counterpart in the Armagh office, John Hall, are doing their level best with their staff to achieve as many structural improvements to those minor roads as possible and will continue to do so.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Has the Minister raised with his ministerial colleagues the wisdom of proceeding to invest so much in one single road project while he struggles to maintain the existing road network?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

The Member is a party colleague and will know that his question is largely led by the future of the A5 project, which I am not in a position to comment on. We are awaiting the outcome of the public inquiry. I understand entirely his point and the logic behind it. However, it would be unwise and improper of me to speculate in advance of the outcome of the inspector’s report on how we will move forward.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

4. asked the Minister for Regional Development to outline the plans and timescale for Belfast’s rapid transit system. (AQO 252/11-15)

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

13. asked the Minister for Regional Development for an update on his Department’s rapid transport proposals for Belfast. (AQO 261/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 4 and 13 together. My Department is currently preparing an outline business case due for completion in 2012 that will indentify the preferred options for a bus-based Belfast rapid transit system for the network routes, a procurement strategy, a commercial business model and a fair system.

As part of that outline business case process, a 12-week public consultation exercise will commence in October 2011. In the initial weeks of the consultation, public exhibitions will be held in east and west Belfast and in the city centre. That will give everyone the opportunity to view proposals, ask questions and make comments, which will assist my Department in planning the system. Following completion of the outline business case, DFP and Executive approval to proceed will be sought. Funding for the planning and commencement of initial implementation measures for Belfast rapid transit is included in the budget for 2011-12 to 2014-15.

Proposals for the Belfast rapid transit system include the provision of park-and-ride sites at key locations in the east and west of the city. One of the proposed locations, in Dundonald, will enable the use of the rapid transit system by those who commute from the Strangford constituency. The target date for the operation of the system is 2017. That is, of course, dependent on the availability of funding in the next budget period. At the appropriate time, my Department will bid for the required resources.

Later in September, I intend to make a study visit, along with members of the Committee for Regional Development, Belfast City Council, Lisburn City Council and Castlereagh Borough Council, to Nantes to see at first hand the operation of an integrated bus-based rapid transit system that is similar to the one proposed for Belfast.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Go raibh maith agaibh, a Cheann Comhairle agus a Aire. I am delighted to hear that progress on the work is still ongoing. I appreciate, as the Minister said, that the consultation will open in October. It is an important project for the city; not only for the west and the east, but for the entire city of Belfast. Obviously, it is hoped that it will create employment opportunities for one of the most deprived areas of Belfast, namely my constituency of West Belfast.

With regard to bids that the Minister will propose for the rapid transit system, will he reiterate when he foresees that the system will be complete in the Belfast area?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I accept the supplementary question that the Member has posed. I understand his interest in the issue. We met recently to look at such matters. However, I am loathe to give specific dates. Promises and indicators of timings that are not, perhaps, being met — and I can think of a significant one at this stage — seem to be a problem for the entire Executive at present. That causes considerable unrest among Members and the wider community. As things stand, 2017 is the target date. However, that is very much an aspiration and is subject to available finance.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I, too, welcome the Minister’s update on the Belfast rapid transit system. Modern, fast and efficient public transport will be much welcomed in Belfast. Given the Minister’s stated aim to enhance Northern Ireland’s existing cycle network, will he assure the House that the excellent Comber greenway dedicated cycle and walkway in east Belfast will not be considered as one of the preferred routes for the system?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I hear what the Member says. I understand why he makes that point. I will consider it in due course.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that the project and plan that he has inherited from his predecessor is not, in fact, for a rapid transit system for Belfast? The system is for west and east Belfast with no inclusion of south and north Belfast? Does the Minister plan to include north Belfast? If not, what assurances can he give the House and the people of north Belfast that in years to come they will have a transport system that will allow them to travel to the city centre and to other parts of the city as easily as those from east and west Belfast?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I hear what the Member says and the passion with which he makes his point. Certainly, the intention is that we will create a rapid transit system for the city of Belfast that makes it easier for all of its citizens and visitors to gain speedy access to their various destinations whether it is for business, retail, tourism or other purposes.

I will be interested in the experience in Nantes. It is helpful that councils such as Belfast City Council, Castlereagh Borough Council and Lisburn City Council, as well as members of the Regional Development Committee, will be able to get an up-to-date sense and proper assessment of a model that we could potentially apply to Belfast and that would help all its citizens.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his indulgence with the questions. I, too, to a degree, echo Mr Lyttle’s sentiment regarding the Comber greenway. I seek the Minister’s assurance that, when arriving at a balance, importance will be attached not only to the money and the interests that will benefit from the decision as and when it is taken, but to the voice of the individual citizens who live on the fringes of these developments and may not always share the corporate vision of the future from their own little place. It is vital that progress is something that is done for us all, rather than being done by some of us to some of us.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for the view that he has expressed. I hope that I am still considered to be reasonably balanced in my judgements, and I seek to continue that consistency in dealing with an issue of this nature.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Question 6 has been withdrawn.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

7. asked the Minister for Regional Development whether he will increase his Department’s budget for the repair of potholes in roads in the Strangford constituency. (AQO 255/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Roads Service has advised that, in distributing the resources available for road maintenance, it makes allocations to the four Roads Service divisions on the basis of need, using a range of indicators. Roads Service divisions use similar indicators when apportioning budgets across council areas, and I am satisfied that allocations are made on the basis of need in a fair and equitable way.

The Member will join me in welcoming the work under way in Kircubbin on the Parsonage Road as well as the work recently completed on the Deer Park Road.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I am delighted to hear the Minister throw up to me about Kircubbin and Deer Park Road in Portaferry. Well done, Minister. It has been a long, long time in coming. Keep up the good work; there is much more to be done.

Does the Minister agree that it would be much better for his Department to fill in potholes and uneven surfaces before people are hurt, cars are damaged and the Department has to pay huge amounts in compensation?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his contribution. Of course, he is a man of many roads, and on an ongoing basis he raises them with me.

I take the point that structural maintenance is important: we had that debate earlier in response to one of the questions. The Member will know that the budget that I have to operate within is being significantly affected as a result of savings to be made. Over the next four years, I am losing £210 million from the maintenance budget, which clearly will mean pressures.

I am very confident, as I mentioned earlier, about the road section engineers in the Newry and Armagh area, and I am equally confident that both Stanley Lamb in Ards and Steven Duffy in the Down office will attempt to manage the situation as best they possibly can for all roads in their network.

Employment and Learning

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Questions 6 and 10 have been withdrawn.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

1. asked the Minister for Employment and Learning for an update on the proposed discontinuance of Stranmillis University College and the suggested merger with Queen’s University, Belfast. (AQO 264/11-15)

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

As the Member will know, a public consultation was carried out on the proposal earlier this year, and the responses received were discussed with the Committee for Employment and Learning.

However, several key stakeholder groups have subsequently requested meetings with me to discuss the proposal, and arrangements are being made to facilitate those. I expect to be able to make a decision shortly.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his response. I know from my contacts with academic staff at Stranmillis that they are strongly opposed to the proposed merger and that morale there is extremely low at present. Will the Minister confirm that there will be legislative guarantees to protect the continued delivery of the religious education curriculum? If the new college operates under the QUB charter of 1908, which is non-denominational, how will that work in practice?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Anderson for his supplementary question. It is important to stress that, while Stranmillis is a non-denominational college, its student population has traditionally come from a Protestant background, and most go on to find employment in the controlled sector. In response to the consultation document, the Transferor Representatives’ Council made significant representations on that. Certainly, the ethos of Stranmillis — we can have a discussion about what exactly that entails and how it is defined — will be carried through and reflected in the merger, if indeed that is what we take forward. Proper consideration will be given, through a stakeholder group, to all the different faith interests.