Northern Ireland Assembly, 13 September 2011

310 contributions from 66 members. The official report.

Ministerial Statements

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your permission and in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement on the twelfth North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meeting in language sectoral format, the eighth since the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly and the first held in 2011. This statement has been agreed with junior Minister Bell, who was the accompanying Minister.

I attended the meeting in Armagh on 7 July 2011 representing the Executive as Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure along with Jonathan Bell MLA, junior Minister in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM). The Irish Government were represented by Jimmy Deenihan TD, Minister of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and Dinny McGinley TD, Minister of State with special responsibility for Gaeltacht affairs. The meeting dealt with issues relating to the language body and its two constituent agencies, Tha Boord o Ulster-Scotch — hopefully, I pronounced that right — and Foras na Gaeilge, the Irish language agency. I will now present a summary of the issues that the Council discussed.

The Council received presentations and progress reports from Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency on the collaborative work and other activities of the two agencies. Those include further joint development of their lecture series ‘Aspects of our Shared Heritage’ and plans to provide evening community education lectures in conjunction with local councils; provision of joint information stands at events such as the national ploughing championships, the Castlewellan agricultural show and the Stormont family fun day; the first accreditation system for Irish language editors, which was held by Foras na Gaeilge on 25 June 2011, and the launch of new supports for the Irish language translation sector; and approval of funding by Foras na Gaeilge for 50 summer camps that provide valuable opportunities for children to use Irish outside the school environment and for 47 festivals to promote the language in the community at large. They also include the approval by the Ulster-Scots Agency of almost 300 grants for grass-roots communities to undertake music and dance tuition and for 32 Ulster-Scots festivals, as well as an extension of the community workers scheme, which continues to impact positively on Ulster-Scots activities by improving capacity in community groups; and delivery by the Ulster-Scots Agency of a range of educational programmes, including eight after-school clubs and 32 community summer school schemes that will engage children and young people in Ulster-Scots language and culture.

The Council discussed progress on the development of the North/South Language Body’s corporate plan for 2011-13 and its business plan and budget for 2011. The Council noted that the language body’s 2007 accounts were laid in the Oireachtas and, indeed, in the Assembly on 10 June 2011 and that audit fieldwork has been completed for the annual reports and accounts for 2008 and 2009. Consolidation will follow as soon as possible. Draft accounts have been filed for 2010. The Council also noted that it is proposed to introduce a new, simplified consolidation process as soon as possible and that a further progress report on that will be given at the next NSMC language body meeting.

The Council noted that all draft schemes that are required to implement the recommendations of the review have now been drawn up. Following consideration of comments that were made during the recent public consultation exercise, the approval of the board and the Finance Ministers will be sought, prior to submitting the schemes to the next meeting of the NSMC for approval.

The Council agreed that, in the context of continuing to achieve satisfactory progress, Foras na Gaeilge may continue to provide interim funding to existing funded organisations until the end of June 2012. A further progress report will be made at the next NSMC meeting in language sectoral format.

The Council noted the recommendations of the review of the Ulster-Scots Agency’s financial assistance scheme. It agreed to hold its next meeting in language sectoral format in October or November 2011.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I note that the Council proposes to introduce a new, simplified, consolidated process for publication of the language body’s annual accounts and report. Can the Minister be much more specific about the timetable for delivery of that process and give assurances that there will be no future delay in the publication of accounts and reports?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. The issue was raised by my predecessor, her party colleague Nelson McCausland. The lengthy and arduous accounting process is due to the fact that there are two jurisdictions, two sets of accounting procedures and two Finance Ministers. The overall audit trail has caused considerable delay. Consolidation is the way to proceed. We anticipate that consolidation will be defined by the next language sectoral meeting. Thereafter, there should be a consolidated process, which will make accounting much quicker and easier. It will certainly benefit both organisations in question.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Are the Ulster-Scots Agency’s staffing arrangements appropriate to its needs?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Sorry. Can the Member repeat the question?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I ask the Member to repeat his question.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Sorry. Are the Ulster-Scots Agency’s staffing arrangements appropriate to its needs?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

In short, the answer is yes. A review of the agency’s staffing structure was carried out in 2009 and, again, in September 2010. The review identified the most appropriate senior structure for the agency, including job descriptions. Indeed, descriptions for senior roles, with the associated level of grading, have been achieved. They will include specifications of the staff knowledge and skill sets that are required for each role.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement. She mentioned the provision of joint information stands at events such as the national ploughing championships and the Stormont family fun day. Can she give details of other events at which those stands might be present and how costs will be borne out and apportioned between the two bodies?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Quite a list of events has taken place as well as those proposed, and I am happy to furnish the Member with the details, including the costs. I do not have details of the costs here. There is a list that is too long to read out, but I am happy to furnish the Member with all the details as requested. The joint approach by both agencies to get information out about their work is to be welcomed, and further activities of that nature can certainly be achieved with more joined-up working.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas atá sí i ndiaidh a dhéanamh. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire ar phléigh sí an tionscnamh “Líofa” ag an chruinniú chomhaireachta agus ar smaoinigh sí ar an tionscnamh a chur ar fáil ar bhonn uile-oileánda faoi Fhoras na Gaeilge, ó is eagraíocht í a bhfuil a Roinn féin ina hurra uirthi.

Did the Minister discuss the Líofa project at the North/South Ministerial Council? Has she considered delivering it on an all-island basis through Foras na Gaeilge, which is an organisation that her Department sponsors?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. As he can see from the statement, Líofa is not mentioned. If Líofa had been discussed at the meeting, it would have been mentioned in the statement. I am happy to discuss Líofa in further detail with the Member at the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure on Thursday. In short, Líofa is just being taken forward by my Department. Foras na Gaeilge is assisting with that. We just need to see what way the programme develops and what the uptake is before deciding on where to go with it and what to do with it in future.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

From a quick count in the statement, there are about 450 separate events, which is terrific and is great activity by both organisations. Does the Minister have any figures for what all this costs? What is the level of funding to each organisation, and are there any plans to make them more self-sustaining?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I will furnish all Members with the list of activities that happened and the associated costs.

Needless to say, both organisations have funded the programmes from their budgets. The sustaining of such activities, particularly when they promote good and better relations throughout the island, is to be welcomed, and others, should they be from the private sector or other agencies, could lend themselves to such work and take some of the cost burden. I do not have all the definitive details at hand, but I am happy to furnish the Member and others with them.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

Will the Minister provide more detail on the recommendations of the review of the Ulster-Scots Agency’s financial assistance scheme?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

To be honest, I do not have all the detail at hand. However, the Member is probably aware that there were three categories that the review concentrated on, namely, agency level, cross-cutting group level and specific group level. Some of the key recommendations relating to those categories are quite extensive, but, to give the Member a flavour of them, they include provision of strategic guidance to the groups through the development of a strategy for the sector and the agency ensuring that each of the groups delivers to an appropriate action plan.

The recommendations are with the Finance Minister for approval, but the agency was consulted throughout the review, so it will not be a case of imposing something on anyone.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas.

How will any recommendations from the review of Foras na Gaeilge impact on core-funded groups in the North?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The review of Foras na Gaeilge and core-funded bodies has generated a lot of interest, and there is a lot of concern. Officials from both sponsoring Departments have worked and will continue to work with Foras na Gaeilge to agree the detail of the review’s proposals and a timescale for their implementation. The well-documented need for continued consultation in that sector was highlighted, and that work is being progressed. In that context and as mentioned in previous answers, the extensive nature of the review is the reason why we have proposed extending funding for Foras na Gaeilge and the language body until June 2012. That will help them to achieve the recommendations of the review and to work with the groups that are directly affected by that review. Go raibh maith agat.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Given the many pressures that are on some of our other services, will the Minister indicate what, if any, good housekeeping measures were discussed at the meeting? Members heard of similar measures being taken in some of the other North/South bodies during yesterday’s statements by other Ministers.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

If the Member is referring to governance and efficiency, my response is that statements have been made by Mr Jimmy Deenihan TD about the pressures on the Irish Government’s Budget. There has been much speculation on the back of those statements, but no decisions have yet been taken. Minister Deenihan and I have planned a series of meetings between sectoral meetings to look at efficiencies, governance, projects and better delivery, and those meetings are particularly important given the financial constraints that we all face. In addition, Minister Deenihan and I have agreed to work together and with both Finance Ministers to help to achieve those efficiencies.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

I will follow on from the previous question. Bearing in mind the financial constraints that the health service, in particular, is facing and the difficulties that it is rapidly getting into, is it not appalling for the language body to have an accounting process in which the accounts for 2007 were laid only in June of this year and for which a consolidation process is now being proposed?

In her statement, the Minister outlined the introduction of:

“a new simplified consolidation process as soon as possible”.

Will she tell me on what date approximately that will be implemented? What does “as soon as possible” mean when trying to get some sort of financial discipline into that reporting?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I think that we could all agree that it is appalling that the Member for South Belfast is still playing politics with health. As to the consolidation of the accounts, the next meeting in language sectoral format is scheduled for 13 October, and I anticipate being able to confirm a specific date soon after that. Consolidation is about making the process easier and ensuring that people across the island can understand the workings of both bodies, how their accounts are compiled and what the money is spent on. Given the Member’s background, I would have thought that he would welcome that, rather than pouring water on the fact that people are trying to be more accountable and transparent. Well done — you are consistent anyway.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Will the Minister provide to Members the results of the equality impact screening exercise on the core-funded Irish language organisations?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am happy to do that. As far as I am aware, the results of that equality impact assessment have been published. However, I will check and make sure that they have.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

They have not been published.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

OK. I will make sure that they are.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Is she able to elaborate on the extension of the community workers scheme, which continues to impact positively on Ulster-Scots activities by improving capacity in community groups?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

There is quite a lot of detail on that in the statement, and quite a lot of work has been done by the Ulster-Scots Agency in that area. I am on record as having said that it is to be welcomed that that body changed the direction of its funding and took money from marketing, for example, and put it into the community. There is plenty of detail about the schemes. There are over 300 such schemes, including after-school programmes. If she wants to know anything specific, I will forward the information to the Member and all Members. However, separate to what I have outlined in the statement, I could be reading this out for the next 10 minutes.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Considering that the Minister did not even know that the core funding review had not been equality impact assessed, which is quite appalling for a Minister, I do not have much confidence in seeking any information from her. However, I will take the focus back to the appalling failure of financial management in relation to the Irish language bodies, which took from 2007 to 2011 to produce accounts. The Minister may not be appalled by that, but I suspect that the taxpayers who fund these quangos will most certainly be appalled. Does she not recognise that that is exactly the sort of issue that drains confidence from any public body and causes one to question why we are pouring money into these useless, non-productive quangos?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I ask the Member to come to his question, please.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I detected a statement rather than a question. If the Member wants to write to me, I am happy to answer his question. He actually writes to me quite a lot every day. Jim and I have become firm friends. If he asks a specific question, I will be happy to answer him.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for a Minister to mislead the House by suggesting that I wrote to her the other day —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— when I write consistently to the permanent secretary?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I ask the Member to take his seat.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Salving your conscience.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Let me say to the Member — [Interruption.] Order. The Member should take his seat.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

You should be the last man to talk about conscience. [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Let me say this to the Member: using that type of language is very unparliamentary. I warn the Member about accusing any Minister of misleading the House. I warn the Member. The Member should remain in his seat. Let us move on to the next item of business.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I am moving on.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I have been informed by the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure that she wishes to make a second statement to the House.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mr Speaker, with your permission, I wish to make a statement in compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 regarding a meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council in inland waterways sectoral format. The meeting was held in Armagh on 7 July 2011.

The Executive were represented by me as Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure and junior Minister Jonathan Bell from the Office of the First and deputy First Minister. The Irish Government were represented by Jimmy Deenihan TD, Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. The statement has been agreed with junior Minister Bell, and I make it on behalf of us both.

The Council received a presentation and progress report from the chief executive of Waterways Ireland on its work, including the following significant achievements: the provision of 484 metres of additional moorings, of which 84 metres have been provided at Castle Hume in County Fermanagh; the sponsorship programme that is under way, with over 70 events being sponsored across all navigations; the provision of new publications to promote and support the use of the waterways; the completion of a number of product development studies involving relevant tourism authorities and local authorities with the aims of defining the future needs and future investment in the waterways from a navigational, recreational and tourism perspective; progress on the EU INTERREG IVc Waterways Forward project with 17 partners from 13 countries, which will include Waterways Ireland hosting a meeting of all parties from 13 to 16 September 2011; and the Lakelands and Inland Waterways initiative and a marketing campaign for the Erne-Shannon system, which continued in this period.

The Council discussed progress on the development of the Waterways Ireland corporate plan 2011-2013 and business plan and budget 2011.

The Council received a progress report on the restoration work for the Clones to Upper Lough Erne section of the Ulster canal. Ministers noted that a preferred route had been identified and a preliminary design is now well developed. It was noted that planning would be applied for in both jurisdictions in summer 2011. Work on the strategic environmental assessment and plan has been completed and published, and work on the environmental impact assessment is ongoing. Waterways Ireland has held meetings with all relevant public authorities to advise them on the project.

The Council noted the Waterways Ireland annual report and draft accounts for 2010. The annual report and accounts will be laid before the Assembly and both Houses of the Oireachtas following the accounts’ certification. The Council consented to a number of property disposals, all in the South of Ireland, and agreed to meet again in inland waterways sectoral format in October/November 2011.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

What assurance can the Minister give following the July NSMC meeting that the full costs of the works from Clones to Upper Lough Erne can be met and are on course for completion, given press speculation that this project may be the casualty of budget cuts by the Irish Republic’s Government?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I mentioned this in my previous statement. The Member is right: there has been quite a lot of speculation in the press about concerns around constraints on the Irish Government’s ability to meet the full costs of the restoration of the Ulster canal, particularly from Minister Jimmy Deenihan TD. As I have said, I intend to meet Minister Deenihan to discuss this matter in full. It is vital. Members and the public across the island, particularly people from around Clones and Fermanagh, have raised concerns with me that this will not be achieved.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Will the Minister explain how the interests of landowners affected by any major construction works will be protected?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

There has been quite a lot of interest from concerned landowners, particularly in the South. However, a huge programme of consultation will be completed before any compulsory purchase order comes through. Work will be done with landowners well before anyone’s property is bought. This process has been ongoing for some time, and speculation in some of the local newspapers has not made things any easier. However, unless anyone tells me differently, I am led to believe that landowners have been consulted on the process and that they are being worked with on a regular basis.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I acknowledge the Minister’s statement. She mentioned property disposals made in the Republic of Ireland. Can she outline whether any property disposals are expected in Northern Ireland?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I have not been informed of any property disposals here, but I am expecting to be updated on that at the end of the week. I am meeting Mr Deenihan on a different issue concerning European funding, but I intend to raise the matter of the Ulster canal. Some of the questions raised today have not been covered by the information that I have received from my officials. Those will be raised and forwarded to Members where appropriate.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Can the Minister explain why the Newry canal is not included in the remit of Waterways Ireland’s corporate plan for 2011-13?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am sorry; I did not catch that.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Can you repeat the question, please?

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Certainly. Can the Minister explain why the Newry canal is not included in the remit of Waterways Ireland’s corporate plan for 2011-13?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The issue of the Newry canal has been raised locally. Work has been done on footbridges and environmental works, but I am not aware that there are any plans for a full restoration to a working canal. No such plans have been earmarked to be brought through in this mandate.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Mrs McKevitt has stolen my thunder, so I will ask about the Lagan navigation. Are there any plans to restore that vital piece of infrastructure?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I visited the towpath recently and saw the Lock Keeper’s Inn, the environmental work and the footpath, and I am aware of the different councils’ involvement in that. Again, it is all down to money. I can appreciate the importance of full restoration, but it is really all down to budgetary constraints. Until there is a change in circumstances, I do not anticipate any further restoration.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

With reference to the product development studies, the Committee was informed in June that studies have taken place on the Shannon/Erne waterway and the Erne, Foyle and Dublin city canals, and that studies in Northern Ireland are planned for 2011-12. Can the Minister confirm whether any of those studies have been completed in Northern Ireland? What assurances can she give that the studies will be implemented jointly with the relevant agencies and will involve the private sector?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I cannot confirm that. I will forward the information to the Member.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Given the folly of the neglect and dereliction that followed partition, particularly in respect of the Ulster canal, will you now give us an estimated cost of the restoration of said canal?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The full restoration cost is €35 million, which was committed by the Irish Government, with £40,000 per annum from us for the upkeep, based on full restoration. That is the full cost.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

Thank you for the statement. There were 13 countries involved in the EU INTERREG IVc project. Can the Minister indicate at this early stage any impact that the current economic situation has had on visitor numbers to the inland waterways and lakelands?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

As I said earlier, we are meeting some of the 17 partners from some of the 13 countries this week in relation to the INTERREG programme. It is estimated that possibly around 70,000 to 80,000 people have attended different events as part of the waterways programme. In relation to the EU-funded programme, this week we hope to consolidate lessons learned, knowledge gained and what we would do differently. It is really good to listen to the experience of other countries — Holland has taken the lead on it — to learn how we can improve our waterways as an attractive option for tourism.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for the statement. We are aware that a large number of people work for Waterways Ireland in Northern Ireland. Does the Minister have any information on any anticipated or possible job losses in Northern Ireland as a result of the financial constraints that all Departments are facing?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I have no information on anticipated job losses, despite the fact that there are financial constraints. Both bodies have already encouraged efficiencies, although there is a myth that they do not. I have no information that there will be any job losses, but I will check with my officials and, if there is any such information, I will let you know.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Will the Minister tell us what Waterways Ireland is doing to raise the profile of inland waterways as a key tourism product?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The marketing and promotion strategy includes not only Waterways Ireland but a market advisory group, which comprises the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, Fáilte Ireland and representatives from local government. Arising from a review in 2004, the marketing strategy was formulated for 2011-16 to take on experience gained since the last review, to talk to partners from other countries who are involved in tourism around waterways and to build on the success that they have achieved.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an Aire as an ráiteas a rinne sí ar Uiscebhealaí Éireann. Tá ceist bheag agam di. Will the Minister undertake to amend the legislation that governs Waterways Ireland to include the Newry canal in its remit?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I cannot give the Member a commitment to do that.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

On a positive note, I congratulate Waterways Ireland on the excellent work that it has done to promote the lower Bann. Given the shortage of cash in the coffers of the two Governments, what discussions have there been about attracting investment from the private sector? Does the Minister agree that the potential for job creation in the lower Bann, for example, is immense if only we had the encouragement of and investment from the private sector to put money into much safer places than it did in the past, when it put money into property development?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am not going to comment on property development, but I see the merit in trying to attract private investment. Private sector development on Lough Erne is already quite healthy, as evidenced by the boats and water tourism there. Securing additional EU money or private money for promoting tourism, particularly for waterways, is something that I aim to make a priority. I see the value of it, particularly for the communities that live and work around the waterways, more often than not in rural areas. It would be a real boost to the rural economy if waterways were further developed.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the Access to Justice review. Members will have heard me speak previously, in this Chamber and elsewhere, of the opportunities that the devolution of justice provided us with, including the opportunity to reshape our justice system to fit the needs of Northern Ireland. Members will also recall that, with that in mind, in September 2010 I commissioned a fundamental review to develop our thinking on how best to ensure access to justice in our society. Today, I am pleased to publish the report of the review and to begin a period of public consultation on its findings and recommendations.

Fair and effective access to justice is an essential element of getting justice right; it is critical to building confidence and is an important part of our vision for a future justice system. Our present system is built on providing financial assistance to those who could not otherwise find the money to pay for legal representation. However, I wanted a review that would examine other approaches and better ways of using the funds available. I thank Jim Daniell and his team for their very detailed work over many months to produce the report. I also thank those who offered comments or who otherwise contributed to it.

The report is a comprehensive analysis, containing 159 conclusions and recommendations. I encourage Members to read it carefully. Since I became Minister of Justice, legal aid has been one of the areas prompting members of the public to write to me. I know that many Members have also received correspondence about situations where the system appears not to work well. In my replies I have said that I expect the report to provide ideas for solving some of those problems, and I believe that it does. Public consultation on the report will last three months. Many people and organisations made representations to the review team as its work progressed, and I thank all those who offered ideas or who shared their experience of the system. It is important that all who wish to comment be given the opportunity to tell us what they think needs to be changed.

Having considered those comments, I will make a formal response in the new year. However, I reassure Members that the period of public consultation will not hold up the delivery of changes that we are already making and which have been endorsed by the report. In the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 the Assembly legislated for new powers that will allow the recovery of legal aid costs from convicted defendants who can pay. That development has been endorsed by the report, and I will shortly be publishing proposals for commencing those powers.

The report suggests that responsibility for financial assessment for such a means test should fall to the Legal Services Commission (LSC). It also proposes that the Legal Services Commission should take on the responsibility for decisions to certify for the use of counsel in Magistrate’s Courts. That responsibility currently rests with the judiciary, and I will want to consider carefully the views of the Lord Chief Justice and the Attorney General about the proposed change.

There are other areas where the findings of the report coincide with work already under way. The report highlights the importance of continuing to scrutinise legal aid expenditure, noting that, over the past financial year, spending on legal aid in Magistrate’s Courts rose by around 38%. That was partly because of an increase in the volume of cases, but higher average costs also appear to have played a large part. A review of legal aid fees paid for cases in the Magistrate’s Courts began last month, and that exercise will consider the issues identified in the report.

Running alongside the review of Magistrate’s Courts fees will be a review of the fees paid for legal advice given to those under arrest and held in police stations. That is particularly important for people being investigated for criminal offences, and it has been endorsed as a requirement by European human rights case law. Good early advice is essential to ensure that a defendant’s rights are protected. The report recommends improvements to current arrangements, particularly the establishment of a more formal duty solicitor scheme across Northern Ireland. There are useful models for that in other jurisdictions, and, picking up on those recommendations, the review that has just begun will look at how our system could be improved.

The report notes the public concern that has been expressed about what appear to be disproportionate costs to the legal aid fund and to the justice system as a whole when defendants elect for trial by jury at the Crown Court in cases of alleged dishonesty involving goods or cash of relatively low value. In the past year, there were a small number of high profile cases. Although the report concludes that the right to elect for trial by jury should remain, it makes helpful proposals on how costs could be contained.

The report considers diversionary measures and alternatives to prosecution for less serious first- and second-time offenders, including fixed penalty notices, prosecutorial fines and conditional cautions. In recent years, some progress has been made in Northern Ireland, especially in the field of restorative justice, but the report suggests that a more ambitious approach could yield positive results. It suggests that Northern Ireland, with a centralised prosecution service and the PSNI covering the whole of the jurisdiction, is particularly well suited to such an approach. The report commends, in particular, the approach taken in Scotland, and we will want to look carefully at that.

The report looks at the possibility of introducing one standard fee to apply whether there is a guilty plea or the case goes to trial — as is the case in Scotland — as a measure to avoid unnecessarily prolonging some cases. It suggests that further research is needed, and I have asked officials to take the matter forward as part of the work already under way through the Speeding up Justice programme.

Members will know that, in recent months, in response to the withdrawal by many solicitors from Crown Court cases, I had to consider the emergency introduction of a public defender service to ensure that unrepresented defendants would have access to the legal advice and assistance to which they are entitled under the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act 1998. I am pleased to confirm that such withdrawal action has now ended and that the contingency plans that were being developed have not been necessary.

The report notes, however, that public defender arrangements are in place in Scotland and in England and Wales. Although the report emphasises the benefits of the independent private sector legal professions, particularly their clear independence from the state, it states that it is right to undertake contingency planning to fill gaps in supply. Emergency measures are not required immediately, but, in response to the report, I would welcome comments on whether such a service should be introduced here.

The report rightly records that the interests of victims and witnesses are central to the justice system, and it notes the work that has been done and continues to be developed by the Department of Justice, the Criminal Justice Board and a range of public and voluntary sector agencies. That work remains a high priority for my Department, and, in the coming months, it is something on which we will work closely with the Justice Committee.

In looking at civil legal aid, the report considers how to give priority to the most vulnerable in society and how to encourage early dispute resolution. It finds that cases concerning family and children account for 70% of the current spend of civil legal aid, which is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed. Unlike the current proposal in England and Wales, which would remove private family law cases from the scope of civil legal aid, the review team recommends that legal aid should continue to be available for those who are financially eligible in such cases, but that the system should discourage the use of the court to prolong or reopen disputes. The report notes that many cases do not necessarily need to be resolved in a court hearing, and it recommends the use of mediation, collaborative interventions or other alternatives to court proceedings. It makes a number of detailed proposals on legal aid costs in family cases. For example, as legal aid for undefended divorce cases that are heard in chambers requires a minimum of legal work, it does not warrant the presence of counsel. The report proposes that legal aid funding in such cases should be limited to an appropriate standard fee.

The report also identifies public law children’s cases as an area in which costs could be reduced without risking harm to the quality of the outcome. The number of parties that receive publicly funded representation, the level of representation, the type of legal representation that is appropriate to the court tier and the use of expert witnesses are identified as other areas in which savings might be made. In that area, the report’s findings go much wider than legal aid, and it recommends that there be a fundamental review of family justice in Northern Ireland. That is a key issue, and I would very much welcome views on the proposal.

I support the finding that many cases do not necessarily need to be resolved in a court hearing and the recommendation for the use of mediation and other alternatives. My views on that underpinned my decision to commission the review. Some of those are already being used in Northern Ireland, but the report recommends that they be developed further. For example, neighbour disputes and antisocial behaviour may be suitable for community-based alternative dispute resolution rather than applications before the court for injunctions or prosecutions.

One significant area that was examined was money damages cases. The report recommends that conditional fee arrangements — that is, no win no fee — should be introduced in Northern Ireland, with safeguards to prevent an escalation in costs with, perhaps, an insurance-based solution that enables plaintiffs to insure against the legal cost of losing.

The cost of civil legal aid, the importance of ensuring that limited resources are properly targeted and the need to ensure value for money are also recurring themes. We have already made significant changes that will reduce the cost of criminal legal aid, and the report recommends significant changes to legal aid fees in civil cases. It proposes the introduction of a standard fee structure and harmonisation of the rules for financial eligibility, and it suggests that consideration be given to increasing the contributions from those who can afford it and the inclusion of housing equity in the calculation of capital limits. On value for money, it recommends the establishment of a statutory registration scheme for providers of legally aided services, together with proportionate and cost-effective systems for monitoring quality.

The report recognises that contracting and best-value tendering could play a part in enabling market pressures to secure efficiencies in service provision. That issue is also addressed in the recent Criminal Justice Inspection report on the use of legal services by the criminal justice system, which was published before the summer. The report also considers the establishment of alternative business models that enable solicitors, barristers and other professionals to work together in one organisation, as already happens in England and Wales. We will want to look carefully at the experience from other jurisdictions in considering that.

Section 8, which is entitled ‘Living within Budget and the Options for Further Savings’, sets out some detailed proposals for savings. I will consider them very carefully. The report has also made proposals for how we manage access to justice, recommending that all legal aid policy, which is currently split between the Courts and Tribunals Service and the Legal Services Commission, should be brought together in the Department of Justice as part of the new access to justice directorate. However, it states — I completely agree with this principle — that individual decisions on the granting of legal aid should be taken independently of government or political influence. It concludes that the body that is charged with such decisions should remain at arm’s length from the Department. Again, I completely agree with that principle. Whatever changes we make to structures will be to improve efficiency, reduce unnecessary costs and allow us to bring forward necessary reforms as quickly as possible.

The report is very comprehensive, and, once again, I thank Jim Daniell and the small review team for the amount of work that they completed in just 12 months. It is impossible to do justice to it in a brief statement today, but it provides a broad and far-reaching agenda of work for us to take forward in the months and years ahead. Given its importance, I encourage Members and the wider public to read it and comment as part of the consultation.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas seo ar maidin. In the absence of the Chairperson, Paul Givan, I speak on behalf of the Committee. Mr Speaker, you have provided with me some latitude to ask my question, so thank you very much. [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Níor chuala mé sin. I thank the Minister for his statement, and, of behalf of the Committee, I welcome the publication of the final report, ‘Access to Justice Review’. The Committee looks forward to discussing the findings and conclusions of what is, as the Minister said, a very detailed report. We look forward to seeing Jim Daniell and his team and, no doubt, the Minister, before the Committee. Given the breadth and scope of the report, does the Minister intend to prioritise the various areas and recommendations that it covers when considering the implementation programme? Will he seek views on what the priority areas should be? What will be the timeline for that consultation? It is important that the Minister say whether there are any recommendations that he feels that the Department can take forward in the absence of the consultation process being completed. That concludes my remarks on behalf of the Committee.

On behalf of my party, I welcome the report. We look forward to the Minister and to Jim Daniell’s review team coming before the Committee. Can the Minister assure the Assembly that the guiding principles will be fair and equitable access to justice?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr McCartney in his role as Deputy Chairperson of the Committee — I think that it is the first time that he has had the opportunity to speak first in that role — and as a member of his party. I welcome the fact that, in both capacities, he has seen virtues in the report. I have no doubt that, in both of those capacities, he will engage thoroughly with Jim Daniell and, no doubt, with my officials and me.

He asked about the prioritisation of recommendations. In my statement I made it clear that some aspects were already covered in the 2011 Act, on which we will be able to carry forward work at an early stage. In other respects, when I say that the report is now out for consultation for 12 weeks, it is because, naively, I put it out for consultation genuinely seeking the views of the public and of the Assembly, particularly the Justice Committee.

Given that there are so many recommendations and that it is such a complex report, there will need to be a significant degree of prioritisation. I will certainly welcome the views that come into that, because I am determined that we should make as much progress as fast as possible on the spirit of partnership that the Department and the Committee have adopted so far. On that basis, we will be taking those forward, and the key principle of fair and equal access to justice for all, which the Member highlighted when speaking for his party, is a key principle for us.

We looked at affordability, and the report has considered that. It has also been doing that in a way that ensures that we get access to justice; however, that may not necessarily be the adversarial court system that we have been used to. Nonetheless, we will seek to ensure access to justice. For example, that is why we specifically recommend that some issues remain in the scope of assistance in Northern Ireland that have been removed from scope in England and Wales.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I, too, thank the Minister for his statement, and I place on record my thanks to Jim Daniell and his team for a detailed and extensive report. The Minister referred to the report’s recommendations on diversionary measures on the community-based alternative dispute resolution. Although I understand the need to avoid expensive court cases where possible, some people might have concerns about softer options. What are the Minister’s views?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Anderson for his welcome of the report. When looking at alternative dispute resolution, particularly around the civil area, we are not necessarily looking at something that might be categorised as either a hard or a soft option. We are looking at something that seeks conciliation and a better result for all parties involved than we frequently see from an adversarial court system. Take the different methods of working adopted by the Youth Justice Agency: I certainly do not accept the premise that some options around youth conferencing are in any way easy compared with some of the more traditional systems. Indeed, the concept of a young person having to take restorative action, perhaps by meeting and apologising to the victim and doing community service, may be significantly harder for them than seeing a parent pay a fine for them.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement and, indeed, commend the authors for the detailed and comprehensive report that is before us. There is much to think about and discuss. Given the complexities of the issues in the report and the necessity to engage not just with the Committee and the Assembly but with members of the public beyond the 12-week consultation process, will the Minister outline to us how he envisages we will deal with this in meaningful, bite-sized pieces?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr McCrea for his positive words. I outlined that to some extent in response to the Committee Deputy Chair. First, there is a consultation process, and that will enable individuals and, in particular, the Committee, of which Mr McCrea is a member, to highlight priorities for action. The Department will, to some extent, have to reflect the importance of addressing particular issues. Some issues will be easier to address, and some will require primary legislation, which will take a bit longer. However, we will ensure that we take the widest possible view. Then, as each individual aspect of the review is implemented, there will be further opportunities for consultation and for public comment.

So, I do not see the 12-week process as the be-all and end-all. It will be the start as we seek to see how we will implement the review, and it will not be done in this Assembly session. It will take a considerable amount of time to carry through all the recommendations, but I believe that we have an extremely valuable opportunity to provide a justice system that works better for all our community. However, I will certainly be keen to hear everyone’s word on the best ways to do that and on which points to implement first.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I declare an interest as a member of the Bar. The report is comprehensive, and it would be wrong to be premature in making any assessment of it. Is the Minister prepared to protect access to justice, make it into a paramount principle and not sacrifice the quality of justice and legal services simply because of cost?

Might I ask one further question, Mr Speaker, about a specific aspect of the report? The report says that the Legal Services Commission should take on responsibility for decisions to certify for the use of counsel in the Magistrate’s Court. That responsibility currently rests with the judiciary. Is there not an implication in that for the independence of the judiciary? If one is to remove that function from the Magistrate’s Court and from district judges, will that not affect the independence of the judiciary?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am grateful to Mr Maginness for his work, and I notice that he at least, unlike some others, admits that he is asking more than one question. The specific point about the LSC certifying for counsel is an issue that will require considerable consultation with, among others, the judiciary. I am not sure that I share his concerns about the independence of the judiciary if that power is transferred from the judiciary to the LSC. However, I suspect that there will be a variety of views on that issue, not least from his professional colleagues.

His other question was about protecting access to justice. I referred to those relatively minor cases where people have elected for trial by jury, and the report recommends that that be preserved despite the public concern that has been expressed. The idea that we seek measures to ensure that there is no abuse to finances while preserving the opportunity for a full trial before a jury is an indication that the report is about preserving access to justice, and I am determined to ensure that we maintain that. We will not go down some of the routes that England and Wales have adopted, which have been thoroughly negative in that respect.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for coming to us this morning, and congratulations to Mr Daniell on the report prepared for us. I also congratulate the Minister on the innovative steps that he has already taken on access to justice, particularly in settling legal aid matters, over the summer. The alternative dispute resolution proposals are highly innovative and welcome, but will the Minister pilot some of those, as appropriate, so that people can see them working and to prove to the sceptics that ADR is a real and viable alternative in the areas that he outlined?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

That is clearly five in a row, but at least we have a welcome for the report, and I should be grateful for that.

The piloting of ADR mechanisms is the sort of issue about which I hope that the Committee will give me its views. There are significant opportunities for piloting alternative methods. For example, the current president of the Law Society sees particular benefits in mediation as part of his field of professional expertise. From my background as a social worker, I see significant need to move away from the direction in which family law cases have gone in recent years, which is to become excessively adversarial rather than have the opportunity to promote mediation. Whether we can run pilots in geographical patches or simply look at discrete areas of work and see how we apply them is the sort of issue that we need to follow through on in the consultation, but it is one on which I will be keen to hear views.

Clearly, there is an issue around family cases and some around minor monetary cases, where these things can perhaps be piloted in one area of work. It would be worth looking at that to see that we get the best possible opportunities for people to resolve such difficulties in a way that is more satisfying to both parties.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I also thank the Minister for his statement. There is a lack of legal advice and legal representation in cases involving children and young people in issues outside family law. Children’s risks go beyond public law and family law justice. Legal representation is absent at education or mental health tribunals that children and young people go to. How will the Minister address that deficit?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for her welcome. I am not an expert on the operation of education tribunals. I understood that legal representation was available in mental health tribunals, but I will check that point and get back to her.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. The review states that the right to elect for trial by jury “should remain as now”. However, it suggests:

“ways of keeping the incidence and costs of these cases within bounds.”

Does the Minister agree that this is a fundamental tenet of democracy and that he should be careful about tampering with it?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I agree with the Member that the concept of trial by jury has been recognised by the report as a fundamental tenet, and if that is a tenet of our justice system, I have no intention of interfering with it. I will be interested to see whether others have comments to make during the next three months.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I, too, welcome the report. Does the Minister agree that the welfare of children is paramount in our society — I am sure that he does — and that the burden of costs should not be prohibitive and a consideration in ensuring that children get access to justice?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I agree entirely that the welfare of children is a very serious issue that at times has to be addressed by the justice system. However, when we look at alternative methods of dealing with family and children’s cases, the issue for me is one not just of cost but of what is the most satisfactory resolution to sometimes extremely difficult family problems.

From my professional background, I see little evidence that an adversarial court system is necessarily the best way in which to promote the long-term interests of a child who, for example, may have to get on with both parents in the future. That is why I believe that there are significant benefits from some of the ADR proposals in the report as an alternative to adversarial court systems. However, there will be occasions when it will clearly be necessary for people to resort to courts. Indeed, I know that, in certain circumstances at the moment, judges require people to seek a degree of mediation about things such as arrangements for children’s welfare in divorce cases. It is a matter of ensuring that we find the best way of meeting the needs of children, rather than seeking any particular legal form of that.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I welcome the commissioning of the report by the Minister and the substantive and comprehensive report that has been brought forward by its authors. Given that the report appears to consider a fixed means test for eligibility for civil legal aid, is there a concern that that might reduce, rather than increase, fair access to justice?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. There is a danger that if we apply a fixed means test that is too low there could be the issue of reducing access. If you look at the work that the Department has done over the past year in dealing with the means test issue for non-molestation orders, you will see that is not the way that we have been seeking to operate. We will seek to ensure that any means test is applied at a suitable level. However, it is also the case that, at times, people who could afford to fund their legal cases benefit from legal aid arrangements. We need to strike the right balance while ensuring that we get access to justice for the most needy in our society.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I also join in the congratulations that have been flowing towards the Minister. I particularly welcome the aspects of the report that deal with family law. As many of us know, it is an area that is sodden with tears and, on occasions, poisoned with venom. Will the Minister, in so far as he can, undertake to establish and identify those cases in which law is used as an impediment to justice and where, in the event of a breakdown, one partner who has access to legal aid vigorously pursues the other partner who does not, almost to the point of bankruptcy? That matter has important relevance to these proceedings.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Member. I think that he is possibly the first one to congratulate the Minister, as opposed to Jim Daniell and the team, so I will take that as a compliment; thank you very much.

However, he raises a serious point and one that I know he and other Members will have heard about, as I have, which is the issue of family disputes where one partner is entitled to legal aid and the other is not — perhaps somebody with fairly modest means, but who falls just outside the scope of legal aid — and the difficulties that arise with multiple court applications. Those issues need to be addressed as an abuse of process, and they do nothing for the welfare of an ex-partner or children. We need to cover those issues to ensure that we get the best possible resolution and that we deal with those multiple applications. There are references to it in the report, and I have no doubt that Mr Copeland and others will comment on it during the consultation period.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

In these times of austerity, it is right and proper that we should discuss how we save money. I am sure that the Minister will agree that the court system still has all the trappings of bygone days when money was plentiful and men wore gowns and wigs. What plans does he have to dispense with those kinds of practices and bring the court system into the real world where the ordinary working-class people, who frequent it largely, can identify with it?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Even by the standards of creativity that apply in the Chamber, that was a fairly good one. To the best of my knowledge, no part of the legal aid budget funds the purchase of gowns or wigs, save in so far as the recipients of fees through the legal aid system may choose to buy their own. Perhaps Mr Maginness, who is chortling to the side, could advise his colleague on his personal practice in such respects.

However, if Mr Dallat is making a valid point about the issue of access to justice and the courts being seen to be accessible and places where normal people do not feel intimidated by an atmosphere of wigs and gowns, then I agree with him. I welcome the fact that there have been moves in that direction in recent years. However, it lies with the judiciary and the professional practices of solicitors and barristers to work through at various levels as to how they choose to present themselves in court, rather than being anything that the Minister should interfere in any more than I have done already.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I declare an interest, of course, as a member of the Northern Ireland Bar. I regret that Mr Dallat would deny the follicularly challenged of us the option of having some head covering, but there it is.

There are so many things in the report, some of which one can empathise and agree with and others about which one would have very severe reservations. The report is entitled ‘Access to Justice Review Northern Ireland’, but my concern is that some proposals within it will, in fact, deliver the very opposite and diminish access to justice. On the specifics of civil legal aid, for example, the proposition that the equity that someone holds in their house should become a capital consideration — [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member to come to his question.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I am sure that you heard the exhortations to that effect. That the capital —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I insist that the Member come to his question. The Member will know that I have given a number of Members quite a bit of latitude this morning. Standing Orders are clear that there should be one question to a ministerial statement. However, because of the nature of this morning’s statement, I have been prepared to give Members some latitude in coming to their question.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Of course, you have allowed one Member two questions, and you have not yet allowed me one, yet it might be thought that I might know something about this subject.

With regard to civil legal aid, an imposition is placed on people who might be asset rich, in the sense that they have a house, but cash poor. How can taking into account the fact of house ownership and the value of that house ever help access to justice? Will that not, as one specific, diminish access to justice? Will going down the road of the American system of no win, no fee not increase damages, as lawyers walk away with 30% and 40% of the damages awarded, rather than save money?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Despite the remarks about those follicularly challenged people entitled to wear wigs in court and the fact that I, as one appearing in the witness box, has never been able to do so, Mr Allister raises a significant point about the no win, no fee proposals, which the report recognises. There are significant issues within which checks and balances would be required, but no doubt he and others will wish to comment on that specific proposal as one way of looking forward. Similarly, specific issues, such as the sorts of amounts of capital that are taken into account and whether they include such things as equity in housing, will require detailed consideration. I do not think that it is something that we will resolve here this morning. It is an issue that needs to be followed through, because Mr Allister makes what some people will see as a valid point and others will see as a plea on behalf of those who have capital.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. The Minister mentioned alternative dispute resolution. In his statement, he referred specifically to community-based alternative dispute resolution and its use in family circumstances. Not all civil disputes outside of family disputes lend themselves to community-based solutions. What action will the Minister take to encourage the development of alternative dispute resolutions in other areas of civil law?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Weir for that point. It is clear that a variety of issues come under the general term of alternative dispute resolution, some of which are community-based, as he highlighted, and others that, I suspect, may well provide openings for those with legal qualifications. Some of those who are involved in arbitration, for example, have specific legal backgrounds that would be of benefit in that regard. We are looking at a range of issues. Family matters are dear to my heart because of my background. I also think that a number of minor business disputes, for example, might fit into some form of slightly more formal but still alternative process. One of the key issues is to ensure that we find alternative methods that do not necessarily shut off the option of going to court, if necessary, as a last resort. They should, however, incentivise the reaching of an agreement, rather than incentivising the maximum level of disagreement, as sometimes happens in an adversarial system.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

Could the Minister survive on £680,000 a year? A barrister who appeared before the Justice Committee complained that he would have to survive on that as a result of the Minister’s savage cuts. My heart bleeds for him. There is a lot of concern about the fact that legal aid expenditure has increased by 38% in a single financial year, as the Daniell report indicates. Surely we need to put a cap on the amount that any individual senior counsel can earn. Let us put it at, say, £300,000 — they could survive on that.

Secondly, is it not time for the Minister to state what each senior counsel is given and how much money they have got from legal aid over the past five years?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am not sure how many questions were in that one, Mr Speaker.

I should make it clear to Mr Wells that the specific reference to a 38% increase in costs was specifically in relation to legal aid in the Magistrate’s Courts in the past financial year. As a member of the Committee, Mr Wells will know that he has played his part in reducing Crown Court costs in the past while.

I am not sure whether there are any means by which the Department of Justice could cap the total amount paid to barristers in any one year, even if it should do so. I suspect that the issue has to be to ensure that there is value for money in the time spent by lawyers who are paid from the public purse for the work that they seek to do.

I shall ignore his first question about what salary I could live on, but I think the Member knows that Ministers are paid somewhat less than the figure he quoted.

There are serious issues here. We need to recognise that for many solicitors and barristers, particularly solicitors, in current circumstances and in areas of work such as conveyancing, there are relatively low earnings compared to a few years ago. Not all barristers and solicitors are earning £600,000 a year, or whatever it is. The only issue that I am concerned about is that those paid from the public purse provide value for money and that we find the best way of getting justice for the citizen rather than the best way of putting money into the pockets of lawyers, expert witnesses or anybody else. The issue has to be access to justice for the citizens of Northern Ireland.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I wish to make a statement on the outcome of my review of my Department’s proposal to introduce on-street parking charges to towns and cities across Northern Ireland.

As Members will be aware, the proposal to roll out on-street charging to approximately 30 towns and cities across Northern Ireland was included in my Department’s budget 2011-15 as part of the revenue-raising proposal by the previous Minister. The issue generated widespread debate in all parties in the lead-up to the Assembly election in May, and my party had a manifesto commitment to review the proposal. On taking up office as Minister for Regional Development, I identified this as a major issue in my Department and immediately instigated an urgent review of the proposal.

As part of my review, I have consulted widely with local public representatives, town centre traders, local chambers of commerce and the Northern Ireland Independent Retail Trade Association (NIIRTA). I want to pay particular tribute to the association and its chief executive, Mr Glyn Roberts, for providing a major contribution to the review.

I visited Comber, Cookstown, Dungannon, Enniskillen, Magherafelt and Portadown, to name but a few, to hear what local people had to say on the matter. I also received representations from traders in Carrickfergus, Kilkeel, Downpatrick, Newtownards, Bangor, Larne and Armagh. The overwhelming view across Northern Ireland was that the proposal would have a detrimental impact on towns and, more importantly, the local economy.

Having listened to viewpoints across Northern Ireland, and after careful consideration, I have decided that I will not introduce new on-street car parking charges in the proposed 30 towns and cities. I have heard a united voice in opposition to the proposals and believe that not introducing the charges is the right decision in the current economic climate.

I recognise that on-street charging can provide vital traffic management improvements in certain circumstances. Indeed, on-street charging has been operating in Belfast since 1987 and in Lisburn and Newry since 2008. I am, of course, familiar with the scheme in Newry, which has brought significant improvement to traffic flows and access to retail and tourist attractions in the city. I am always open to requests to introduce on-street charging from traders and local councils in any town or city where they anticipate traffic management or commercial benefits. A lot of work has taken place in Londonderry, and that might be a location where traders want to discuss further the introduction of on-street charging and the benefits that it can bring to city centre business.

As I highlighted earlier, this proposal is included in my Department’s budget. I therefore have to find approximately £8·8 million from other areas over the Budget period to make up the projected revenue lost from on-street parking. Given the pressures in all areas of my budget, it is a difficult task. However, I am determined to minimise, as far as possible, the impact on front line services in my Department. I therefore propose to offset the £8·8 million shortfall with the following savings: £2 million from greater efficiency in my Department; a £2 million reduction in Roads Service’s operational expenditure; £2·1 million income from off-street parking charges in provincial towns and on-street charges in some cities, which is a change and a correction to the statement that Members have before them, and I apologise for that, but for the sums to add up I needed to make that amendment and I stand humbly before the House; and a £2·7 million reduction in the subsidy paid to Translink, which I do not expect to lead directly to any increase in fares.

Let me explain each of those areas in more detail. It is important when we make changes to give a full explanation; I am not a Minister who makes an announcement and then people cannot understand how it is paid for. My 2011-15 budget also includes proposals to carry out a series of reviews of off-street car park charges and existing on-street parking charges. In the majority of cases, those tariffs have remained unchanged for 12 years and have fallen well behind rates charged in private car parks. Let me reassure Members that there is no profit in car-parking charges. The money received from parking charges and penalty charges on drivers who park illegally goes towards the costs of providing parking services, which include: the cost of traffic attendants; the management and maintenance of all car parks; the collection and banking of cash; the provision of lines and signs; departmental staff costs; and capital depreciation of car parks. In 2010-11, it cost £22 million to run those services, whereas income from parking charges and penalties was in the region of £15 million. That means that it costs my Department approximately £7 million a year to operate parking services. Going forward, I want to work towards my Department’s parking services becoming self-funding.

Some months ago, Translink was notified by my Department of the levels of revenue support that it can expect over the Budget period. As a result, it has been able to bring forward developed financial plans for the next few years which balance the need for it to operate profitably with the need to maintain an overall public transport network. For this year, Translink has, to date, been able to operate without increasing fares, but such an approach requires it to operate as cost-effectively as possible and it is necessary to sometimes review the frequency and use of services in those circumstances. In the present economic climate, avoiding fare increases for as long as possible is important and contrasts with the situation in other parts of the British Isles. Part of the thinking is that an approach that minimises fare increases stands the best chance of growing the numbers of fare-paying passengers who use public transport. Combined with measures to prioritise public transport, such as the Belfast on the Move initiative, I hope that Translink can generate more funding for itself, rather than overly rely on public subsidy or reimbursement.

Currently, Translink receives some £70 million in funding from my Department. That covers direct subsidy to the railways, reimbursement of concessionary fares and fuel duty rebate for bus services. That level of support is expected to be maintained next year before it drops materially in 2013-14 and 2014-15. Nevertheless, I believe that it is necessary to reduce the level of Translink subsidy by a further £1·3 million in 2013-14 and £1·4 million in 2014-15 because I expect that it can grow numbers of fare-paying passengers and resulting income in the interim.

I emphasise that I hope to protect the levels of subsidy being provided to rail users, given the plan to introduce new trains on to the network. I do not intend that that additional saving will impact on fare levels, and I will look closely at that area as I agree Translink’s financial plan. I appreciate that some people may not be happy with a slight decrease in funding for public transport. However, given the tight budget that I inherited and the potential for Translink to generate additional income, I believe that the change can be managed internally without impacting front line services.

Turning now to the efficiencies in the Department, the spending and savings proposals in its 2010 budget set out spending plans on the basis of a flat admin budget across the four years of the Budget period. The Department has initiated plans to live within that allocation by absorbing pay increases and other pressures within its admin budget. That involves using natural wastage efficiencies created by people leaving the organisation due to age retirement and other reasons. It also involves an ongoing programme of organisational reviews that will look at efficiencies in the use of staff and general administrative expenditure.

My revised plan identifies a further £1 million in efficiencies from the Department for Regional Development (DRD) staffing budget in years three and four of the Budget period, which are 2013-14 and 2014-15. Those new pressures will also be addressed through organisational efficiencies and natural wastage opportunities.

My Department will use established procedures for dealing with any staff surpluses that arise, including redeployment to other duties within either DRD or other Departments. I wish to make it clear that there are no plans for staff redundancies. My Department will consult fully with trade unions and staff as appropriate in taking forward proposals for the efficiencies that are required to live within budget.

Finally, Roads Service will make its £2 million reduction in operational expenditure through savings on repairing low-category carriageway defects that have not yet become hazardous and that will now have low impact on the public.

I believe that today’s announcement about not rolling out new on-street parking charges demonstrates how a local Minister listens to the views of local people and delivers outcomes that reflect their needs. I also believe that it will help local businesses in what is a challenging time economically across Northern Ireland, and I am pleased that I have been able to deliver on a commitment that my party gave during the recent election campaign.

I hope that Members and traders across Northern Ireland will welcome the decision that I have taken today. I commend the statement to the House.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement and, indeed, for briefing me and the Deputy Chairperson yesterday. It is disappointing that we will see a 100% increase in off-street car parking fees over the next two or three years. Although there is an argument that Belfast should not be the only place to feel the pain, it is equally true that Belfast enjoys a greater public transport provision, unlike towns in rural areas where the inadequate transport structure necessitates bringing cars into towns. That will therefore adversely impact on rural dwellers. I also note from the Roads Service website that there are approximately 76 DRD car parks throughout Northern Ireland, with about 15,600 spaces, where no tariffs are charged at all. Perhaps spreading the load would have been better.

Will the Minister assure the House that the increased charges, coupled with the reductions in rural bus services, will not be detrimental to our most vulnerable citizens, such as the elderly, those with a disability, young people, rural dwellers and, indeed, the unemployed? Will the Minister also advise whether any thought has been given to the disposal of excess land assets that are currently held by the Northern Ireland Transport Holding Company?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Chair of the Committee for Regional Development for his questions. I am sorry that he did not feel it possible to welcome the announcement that gives huge relief, I believe, to many traders in a great many towns in Northern Ireland. However, I understand his points of concern.

First, let me say that there will be no additional increases to tariffs in Belfast as a result of today’s announcement. Even after tariffs are increased in line with the existing budget proposal, Belfast charges for either on-street or off-street parking will still be much lower than many private sector car parks. On average, all urban and rural areas will increase by a similar percentage. I understand the Member’s points on the impact that any increase will have, particularly on those who are most vulnerable, and I know that Translink also has to bear that consideration in mind. I am in discussion and am reflecting with Translink and the Northern Ireland Transport Holding Company about the assets currently held by the holding company and how we could move forward on an issue such as that.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement. Indeed, a lot of traders in my constituency from Newcastle and Kilkeel would also welcome the statement.

Will the Minister give a commitment to work with local government and chambers of commerce, particularly in the towns that were considered for charging, to develop traffic management plans? I am thinking of Newcastle in particular, where there are seasonal pressures with the high number of tourists visiting the town. Obviously, parking is a problem at certain periods of the year.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member should come to his question.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Will the Minister give that commitment?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I genuinely thank the Member for congratulating me on the announcement, which overturns the earlier decision of his party colleague, the previous Minister. I really am beginning to feel loved and cherished, but with some way to go from other people.

I am happy to give an assurance that my Department and Roads Service will work with chambers of commerce and other local authority people to ensure that traffic management plans are sensible and well designed for towns and, indeed, cities across Northern Ireland.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Yesterday, I heard an Executive Minister announce the need to save £22 million from his departmental budget with no indication of how he intended to do it. Today, I hear another Executive Minister announce the need to find £8·8 million and explain in great detail how he intends to do it. Does the Minister have an opinion on which one is the better form of government?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am very grateful to the Member for his question. I can claim, with some modest success, that I have not only brought forward a change but have explained that change in some detail to the House in an open and transparent way. I much prefer to leave others to judge how that is reflected upon.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Again at the risk of love calling the Minister, I very much welcome the statement. I think that it is a very good statement on the three issues relating to on-street car parking charges. It is a welcome boost, particularly for retailers in provincial towns who were concerned about the damage that on-street car parking charges would cause.

The Minister outlined some efficiencies, which I welcome, to fund the decision not to bring in the charges. Will he give serious consideration to a comprehensive review of how car park attendants operate in Northern Ireland? There is a serious concern that they are damaging business in many provincial towns. Let us review the actual cost of the traffic warden system in Northern Ireland.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for welcoming the proposals and changes that we have made. I know that there is concern in some quarters about the role of the system operators. However, we all have to realise that their job is an enormously difficult, challenging and unpopular one, almost akin to being a Minister or, indeed, a Member of the House. I am prepared to look at ways in which we can move forward. As outlined in my statement, collecting the money and managing the car parks and the attendant staffing issues cost my Department year by year. I hope that, at some stage, we can move to equalise the situation so that it does not cost the taxpayer ongoing sums of money. Traffic wardens and attendants do a difficult job and, largely, they do so professionally. However, I will look at the issue.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I welcome the statement, particularly because it appears to be a U-turn from where the Assembly was previously and because traders from Larne and Carrickfergus, which are in my constituency, were fearful about the effect that the charges would have on their trade during these difficult recessionary times.

I turn directly to the savings that you propose to make, Minister. I seek an absolute assurance that the reduction in Roads Service operational expenditure will not affect road safety in Northern Ireland, which is of vital importance.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for welcoming the announcement. Having had representations from people in many towns and, indeed, from public representatives and chambers of trade and commerce, I know the strength of feeling out there and the pressure that many of our small and indigenous retailers are feeling at this time. It is good that we can lift some of that burden. This is not a panacea for all their ills, and I am not promoting it as such. It is, however, an important acceptance of the problems that small retailers face; in particular, their competition with multinationals that operate in shopping centres with free parking and other facilities. I think that it will help to level the playing field to an extent and hope that it is welcomed.

Safety on the roads and in all of the areas for which I have responsibility remains a key priority. Even in challenging economic times, safety will always be a key priority.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the Minister’s decision. I sat on the former Regional Development Committee, and when the original decision was announced, I opposed it. Therefore, I welcome the Minister’s common sense decision to reverse the proposal to introduce on-street parking charges. In the statement, the Minister refers to a new figure of, I think, £2·1 million of income that he intends to find from off-street parking charges. As the Minister will be aware, in my constituency, there is currently free parking in Cookstown’s town centre. Can he confirm whether that will continue or whether it forms part of his proposal to introduce charging in certain car parks?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for welcoming the broad thrust of the proposals. We will have to reflect on certain changes. Essentially, he is asking about new charges for car parks where it is currently free to park. I can confirm that the current proposal to increase existing tariffs includes the introduction of charging to 28 car parks where parking is free. Those charges will be introduced in the near future. My announcement of new on-street parking charges does not apply to those off-street car parks. The introduction of further charging in off-street car parks that are currently free will be considered routinely in my Department’s annual tariff reviews.

I visited Cookstown to hear representations, not only from elected representatives but from the local business community. I will confirm for the Member as quickly as possible the up-to-date situation for Cookstown.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I note the Minister and his party colleague’s criticism of other Ministers’ financial forecasting while waxing lyrical about the success of their own. However, I also note that the protection of the subsidy for rail users in the next year is one that is based on “hope” and that the reduction to public transport funding for 2013-14 is based on “expectation”. I am not sure where those foundations are set.

The Minister forecasted correctly objection to his cut in public transport funding. I seek his assurance that that reduction will in no way delay the introduction and operation of the recently and expensively purchased modern train fleet?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I pay tribute to the Member for his valiant defence of his party colleague on the Executive. [Laughter.]

The cut will not impede the purchase of new trains at all. The new trains have been a real success — no pun intended. [Laughter.] What has been heartening about the upgrading of rail services throughout Northern Ireland has been the fact that it has led to greater train usage. That is a very good thing indeed. It is part of the argument and debate that we had yesterday on the Londonderry to Coleraine line. We want to bring about a positive outcome to all those issues.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Mr Speaker, it may be a first, but I want to welcome the ministerial statement on the reprieve that has been granted to towns that are faced with the threat of on-street car parking charges, particularly Ballymena and Ballymoney. With regard to pain, the Minister referred to the fact that 28 car parks will now come into the charging regime. Can he, by writing or otherwise, identify any of those car parks that are located in my constituency, North Antrim?

Can he also explain why DRD car parks seem to run at such a loss whereas private car parks, where the charging regime is not that different, are very profitable operations? Does that not suggest inefficiency in the running of departmental car parks?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am flattered in the extreme that the Member has found it in his heart to welcome my ministerial statement. The entire House can share in my unrelenting joy in celebration of the enormity of the statement that the Member has made. [Laughter.]

I will provide the House and the Library with details of the 28 car parks that have been mentioned. The Member refers to the difference between private car parks and those that are operated by my Department. Realistically, anyone who parks in Belfast city centre to facilitate either work or shopping sees a significant difference between some of the private car parks and the DRD ones.

I have already said that this whole operation costs my Department £7 million, and we need to move to a situation where there is no cost to the Department. How do we do that? Is it simply about increasing charges — clearly not — or is it about getting greater efficiency from staff and resources?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. I want to press him further on the issue of the 28 car parks. Despite what his colleague from Strangford said about the detail, it is unfortunate that he had to inform the House that he will place in the Library the information that affects 28 car parks that are currently free. In my constituency, Townhead Street car park in Ballymoney is a vital facility for trade in the town. Will the Minister undertake to provide not only a list of the 28 car parks, but the rationale for choosing them?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am happy to respond to the Member directly on the issue that he has raised.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I join my colleague Jim Allister in welcoming the Minister’s statement — [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I also thank the Minister for the briefing that he gave me and the Chairperson of the Committee yesterday. On the savings that you are going to make, you say that there will be a £2 million reduction in Roads Service’s operational expenditure. You talk about low category carriageway defects. Will you give some explanation about the criteria for determining such defects? Is there not a danger that those repairs will become more costly — I have a pun here — further down the road?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I had not realised that my powers of mediation were so extensive. [Laughter.] I feel that I am drifting into territory currently owned by David Latimer. There may well be views on that.

Going back to the point raised by Mr Dickson about road safety and carriageway safety, there are relatively routine minor carriageway defects that can be improved on a more systematic and ongoing basis instead of sending people out to do a particular patching job when it is not absolutely essential. All of these things are carefully assessed on the basis of safety, and that will continue to be the case.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I too welcome the Minister’s statement and his decision to abandon the proposals of the previous Minister and those that were contained in the budget for on-street car parking charges.

Is the Minister content that the proposals will be supported by NIIRTA? Will he confirm that both the Larne traders and members of Carrickfergus Chamber of Commerce are agreed on the dangers of this form of charging, so that we will not be endangering our town centres, which are obviously in great competition with out-of-town shopping?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his encouraging remarks, which were completely unscripted. I assure him that NIRTA is completely behind and understands the detail of the announcement that I made today. I hope very much that it will be able to welcome the proposals and join the growing band of people who have done so. The towns that he mentioned, Larne and Carrickfergus, through their Chambers of Commerce, their traders and public representatives, have sent the consistent and unanimous message that on-street car parking charges are a burden too much. They are an unfair burden in a highly competitive area and in the current challenging economic circumstances. My announcement today will find a broad welcome throughout towns and cities all over Northern Ireland.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement; however, I recognise that some devil in the detail has yet to be declared about car parks. Minister, will you assure the House that there will be no further diminution of the timetabling and scheduling of Ulsterbus and the other services that are operated by Translink?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her positive comments. In the operational decisions that are taken by Translink, every effort is made to take account of local circumstances and other issues such as value for money, and it will continue to consider those issues. I have an obvious interest in that area and I will also want to be assured that it is doing so.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am more concerned with what the Minister has not said today. What he did say seems all right, and it was well scripted by the civil servants who know how to draft these things. I am also concerned that, in one of his replies, he said that he would place the information that was requested in the Assembly Library. We are all looking forward to seeing that.

How does the Minister draw a comparison between two towns of a similar size such as Dungannon and Cookstown? People must pay for car parking in Dungannon, but if they travel 10 miles down the road they do not have to pay for it. Does he accept that that places the retail trade on an unequal footing and an unlevel playing field? Should there not be a level playing field when it comes to parking, with all towns either charging or not charging?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member. With his characteristic directness, he did not quite rain on the parade, but he certainly brought forward his direct approach. However, it would have been too much to expect Lord Morrow to join in with the celebratory mood.

The point that he raised is actually a fair one. There are anomalies in the systems that have existed over a long period, and it will take considerable work to equalise those. I am happy to look at particular issues in particular areas, and I will readily do so. Although I have been in my post for a relatively short period of time, I accept that I have inherited a system in which anomalies exist around equity.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I also join in with the throng who welcomed the statement. Does the Minister recognise that one of the implications that flowed from this issue was the recent withdrawal of a number of bus services in east Belfast, which were, in effect, subsidised by retail and other business interests? In one particular case, the provision of the bus service was a condition of the planning permission, yet, after the planning permission was granted, the developer in question was declared bankrupt. When approaching these matters in the future, might it be an idea to insist that the developer should pay a bond to provide for the subvention of the bus service for an agreed period? That will mean that such arrangements actually bring forward the benefits in reality that they promise on paper.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member. He raised a couple of issues. The first issue was a general principle about how we approach such things and the second dealt with a more specific case. I am happy to receive further information or correspondence from him, and I will seek to address the points that he raised.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has arranged to meet immediately upon the lunchtime suspension. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The first item of business when we return will be Question Time.

The sitting was suspended at 12.26 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair) —

Enterprise, Trade and Investment

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

1. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline her plans to support microenergy generation. (AQO 279/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Microgenerators of electricity are incentivised under the Northern Ireland renewables obligation (NIRO), which is the main mechanism for supporting renewable electricity generation in Northern Ireland. Approximately 90% of those receiving support are microgenerators. In 2010, I increased the incentive level for new microgenerators using wind, hydro and solar photovoltaic technologies. In addition, in July this year I launched a consultation on a £25 million renewable heat incentive, which recommends support for generators, including microgenerators, to install renewable heat technologies over the next four years.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Why did Northern Ireland not embrace the feed-in tariff and renewable heat incentive when the low-carbon buildings programme ended, as England, Scotland and Wales did?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I have indicated to the House on many occasions that we did not have the authority to embrace the feed-in tariff (FIT) because we did not have the legislative capability. It came about in England and Wales through a change that came at a late stage to the Bill that was going through the House of Lords. It, therefore, did not include Northern Ireland, and we could not bring it in to Northern Ireland at that time. I did, however, ask officials to look at whether the feed-in tariff would be better for Northern Ireland than what we have currently, namely the Northern Ireland renewables obligation.

The cost of the NIRO is spread right across the UK, so the FIT would, more likely than not, apply just to Northern Ireland. In other words, the cost would just be spread across consumers in Northern Ireland. That would mean that it would cost more to implement the FIT for consumers here in Northern Ireland. I did not think that that was a road that we would want to go down, given the context of where we are on energy. However, as the Member will probably know, electricity market reform is very much on the agenda of the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC). Officials are working with DECC to ensure that Northern Ireland gets the proper incentivisation model moving forward. So this is an area of flux, and we very much need to be in the middle of it with DECC to make sure that Northern Ireland’s voice is heard.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I am very interested in the Minister’s answer to Mr McCallister. Is the Minister indicating that her preference for microgeneration would be to have a feed-in tariff sometime in the future? As the Minister probably knows, it has been very successful in other jurisdictions. Given the paper that DECC produced recently, it might be the way forward for Northern Ireland.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Chair of the Committee knows, we looked at the issue in the previous mandate when he and his Committee carried out its work on energy. As I indicated then, we did not have the legislative authority, but we did some work. We very much wanted to look at the FIT as a possibility. We were not going to close our minds to it, because it is happening in the rest of the United Kingdom and, indeed, in the Republic of Ireland. However, I am concerned that the costs associated with introducing and administering a FIT could increase the cost to electricity consumers.

I know that, in all the things that relate to energy, we have to balance competing goals and look at sustainability and competitiveness. We also have to look at the cost to consumers, which is always part of the mix when I look at these matters. However, matters have moved on since the debate that we had last year about having a FIT just for Northern Ireland. Electricity market reform indicates the end of the renewables obligation in the United Kingdom in 2017, and, therefore, we will probably have to look at a new mechanism. We are discussing what that new mechanism will be, and I am sure that the Committee will be very much involved in that.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

Is the Minister aware of difficulties around connecting to the NIE grid system? What pressure can the Minister put on NIE and the Utility Regulator to make such connections more streamlined and cost-effective?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. This issue comes up from time to time among people who are trying to manage wind generation and find they are having difficulties not just with that wind generation but with the new anaerobic digestion. People can have difficulties getting a price indication from NIE, and there can be a delay with the grid connection.

As the Member probably knows, NIE operates under a regulatory framework determined by the Utility Regulator as detailed in its licence from him. It is required under that licence to provide a connection offer to all generation connecting into the distribution system in line with its connection charging statement. I think part of the difficulty is that the price indication is given at the end of the planning process, so it does not happen concurrently but consecutively. That causes some delay. However, I understand that NIE has recognised that it needs to have adequate resources in place to meet the increasing number of connection requests.

To me, an increasing number of connection requests indicates that more and more people are availing themselves of a mix of renewable energies. I understand that NIE is recruiting staff to deal with connections as well as recruiting managerial and administrative staff. I hope that we will see a more streamlined version of what is happening and has been happening over the past number of years. If we are to have the amount of renewables that we have targeted for ourselves, we need to get those renewables connected to the grid.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. In light of Community Energy Scotland’s experience, what plans does the Minister have to help communities install microgeneration technologies to help achieve the renewable energy target for 2020?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am not aware of the detail of the Member’s question about Scotland, but I am happy to take some information from him. I had an interesting exchange recently with some members of the Fermanagh Trust about community benefits from wind farms. I have asked officials to look at that issue because we know that, in some cases, companies bring a great deal of community benefit to areas where wind farms are hosted. I hope that other companies do the same. Huge investment has been made in wind farms, and communities should benefit from that. I am aware, given that conversation, that some areas of the United Kingdom seem to benefit a great deal more than some of the host communities here in Northern Ireland, and I have asked officials to look at that.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

2. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what actions her Department has taken, and intends to take, to promote Northern Ireland as a venue for international golf tournaments. (AQO 280/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The recent successes of Graeme — I had better get his name right — McDo’ell or McDow-ell — I always get it wrong; I think I will call him G-Mac — Rory McIlroy and Darren Clarke offer us an unprecedented opportunity to promote Northern Ireland as the home of golf. I have, therefore, asked the Northern Ireland Tourist Board to work with key stakeholders to explore the possibility of holding a major golf event in Northern Ireland. We have been investigating the feasibility of securing the Irish Open in the next few years and aspire to holding the Open Championship sometime thereafter.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer so far. Can she give us some assurance that the tourism marketing strategies will include golf and, in particular, the resource available on the north-east coastline?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

All politics is local, but golf is the world’s largest sports-related travel market, and therefore it is incumbent on all tourism partners to put golf right at the top of their agenda. I take this opportunity to congratulate our Walker Cup golfers Paul Cutler and Alan Dunbar. Yet again, two Northern Ireland golfers have represented GB and Northern Ireland and have done us proud. That is another indication of the importance of golf here.

We are rolling out a golf tourism campaign of £1·8 million to invite potential holidaymakers to come and visit the home of the champions. That campaign builds on an already busy schedule of year-round golf promotions. The Northern Ireland Tourist Board, as I have said, has big plans for the future, but it has already supported golf events in the past, including the Senior British Open and the Ladies Irish Open, and, as some of you may know, we are working with the Galgorm Castle Golf Club. I was hosted there for the second successive year in July. That is a hugely successful event, which gains coverage on the Sky television network. It portrays Northern Ireland right across the world, and golf remains very much at the heart of what I do in tourism.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I do not know whether the Minister will be delighted that I am not resorting to a parochial issue today. Given the huge number of people who have travelled to New Zealand for the rugby World Cup, has the Minister had or does she plan to have any discussions with ministerial colleagues, either in the Executive or the Dublin Government, about the possibility of the rugby World Cup coming to this island at some stage?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As an Ulster rugby fan, I would be more than delighted to see the rugby World Cup come to the British Isles, which would probably be a more realistic thing to hope for. I will give all my support to that. We have a huge number of events coming up in 2012 and 2013, one of which is, of course, the World Police and Fire Games. That gives us a really good opportunity to promote Northern Ireland and all that we have to offer in sporting tourism. It certainly forms part of the package that I want to promote.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Mr Mike Nesbitt, who might return to golf perhaps.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

You are very wise, Mr Deputy Speaker. Does the Minister agree that the potential for achieving the Tourist Board’s goals for more tourists spending more per day and staying for longer lies not so much in the glamour of a four-day golf event but in the more mundane, day-to-day attraction of golfers who are here to play, rather than to watch?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I think it is both, actually. The Member is right to say that we want to attract more golf tourists to Northern Ireland, but the publicity that we will generate by holding major tournaments here will help us to do that. One of the reasons for the Home of Champions campaign that we have been running is to attract golf tourists to Northern Ireland to play the courses where our brilliant champions come from. That is proving very successful. The Member is right about our tourism spend figures. We all know that golf tourists spend considerably more than ordinary leisure tourists, and, therefore, if we are to ensure that we reach those targets in the emerging tourism strategy, we need more golf tourists and more spending of their money in our villages and towns right across Northern Ireland.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

3. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what discussions she had with Power NI prior to the recent rise in electricity prices; and what consideration has been given to reviewing energy management structures. (AQO 281/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I have not met Power NI, but there have been a number of meetings over the summer between my officials, Power NI, the Utility Regulator and the Consumer Council as part of the annual electricity tariff review process. The Power NI price increase of 18∙6% is, of course, disappointing and is challenging for both businesses and domestic consumers, especially in the current difficult economic climate. However, the price increase is largely due to rises in the wholesale cost of generation fuels, resulting in increased power generation costs, which lead to higher electricity charges. The increase in electricity tariffs has been scrutinised and approved by the Utility Regulator, who has the responsibility for regulating Power NI tariffs.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an fhreagra sin, agus tá ceist agam di ar an ábhar chéanna.

Has the Minister’s Department assessed the effect of greater competition, and is that providing any benefit to the consumer?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Of course, we want to see more competition in the Northern Ireland electricity market. As the Member will know, Airtricity came into the market in June 2010 and provided a 14% reduction on NIE’s — now Power NI’s — prices. We are trying to encourage other companies to come in. The Member may have heard the Electricity Supply Board's (ESB) recent announcements about its intention to come into the Northern Ireland market. Other companies want to come in, and the more that do, the more competitive prices will become. We have already seen that with just two players in the market. It is part of the wider European strategy to have an integrated market, not just between us and the Republic of Ireland but across the British Isles and in France. If we have a much broader regulated market, we will see more competition, and we will see the benefit of that in prices as well.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Further to the issue of competitiveness, will the Minister join me in expressing surprise that, setting aside the names and backgrounds of the companies involved, although there is a cheaper product available, more people have not taken advantage of the competitiveness of the market? That is a good thing, and because there is no yellow pack electricity, the product is identical and people can get it more cheaply than they could otherwise at a time of rising prices. We should encourage people to shop around and get a cheaper product.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is surprising, but part of the difficulty has to do with the privatisation of NIE, which took place in 1992. A lot of people are still used to that brand, and, in many ways, the fact that NIE has now rebranded to Power NI may signal to people that there has been a change. Hopefully, people will start to look around for different price levels. It is about looking not just at electricity companies but at alternatives, such as gas. I know that the Member will join me in hoping that we are able to develop gas provision in the west, so that we give everyone in Northern Ireland the chance to have a choice of power supply and are not solely reliant on electricity.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. In previous answers, the Minister mentioned the hardship that some families and businesses, particularly small businesses, face because of rising energy prices. Has she had any meetings with the Utility Regulator or, indeed, some of the energy companies? There is a view that NIE’s pension fund deficit is responsible for the rise in costs and that those are not just the result of the wholesale cost of energy.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I raised the issue of the NIE pension deficit with the Utility Regulator, as the Member would expect me to do. That deficit relates to the NIE transmission and distribution business — the part that has gone to ESB. Power NI is a separate entity, which is subject to its own price review process. The current price increase is not being implemented as a result of the reported NIE pension deficit. The Utility Regulator expects NIE to manage its pension costs within the allowance provided in the current price control, which is in effect from April 2007 until March 2012. Within that price control, NIE receives an allowance for pension contributions. The pension deficit figure is on the distribution side, not on Power NI’s side.

The Member may not accept that wholesale costs have caused the increase in power prices, but there has been a huge change across the world over the past year that has had a big impact on the cost of fuel across the world. The Japanese tsunami, the developments in the Middle East and many other events have had an impact on the price of electricity. Although we will continue to work with the energy companies, the Utility Regulator and the Consumer Council, which, the Member will accept, provides a useful source of impartial advice for energy consumers, the Executive are looking at what more we can do to mitigate what will be a very difficult winter. We wholly accept that a lot of people are already in fuel poverty. Indeed, from my perspective, many small businesses also have difficulty with costs. Energy prices are becoming a huge issue for a lot of small business, so we need to address it.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

The Minister touched on the difficulty of controlling prices. What other steps is she looking at to help the large number of people who are now moving into fuel poverty?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member knows, the Minister for Social Development leads on fuel poverty. Nevertheless, I met him before the summer, which was before we knew of the scale of the price rises coming our way. We are formulating a strategy, and the First Minister and the deputy First Minister have been exercised as to how we might mitigate energy prices over the winter. We will say more about that in coming weeks, and, towards the end of the month, I will say more about how we can help to mitigate energy price rises.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

4. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what discussions her Department has had with Ofcom, the mobile phone industry and the European Commission to secure a further reduction in roaming charges. (AQO 282/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is not a devolved matter. However, I am in discussion with Ofcom regarding mobile phone coverage in Northern Ireland. Improving access to 3G services is one of the key themes in my Department’s 2011-15 telecommunications action plan and, indeed, in our bid for funding under the broadband delivery UK initiative.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Given that excessive roaming charges are a serious barrier to growing the all-Ireland economy, what steps is she taking towards the introduction of an all-Ireland mobile phone tariff?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member knows, the matter was regulated by the European Union, which introduced a regulation in 2007 — amended in 2009 — on the maximum that could be charged for roaming charges, commonly known as the Eurotariff. The European Commission set a target for the difference between national and roaming charges to approach zero by 2015. Therefore, the issue continues to exercise the European Commission.

I have made my view clear to Ofcom, the regulator on the matter, that roaming is an issue in Northern Ireland because we do not have sufficient 3G coverage and are, therefore, often sent to roaming. The fact that we do not have the 3G coverage that we should causes problems, and that comes from the fact that the United Kingdom target of 90% 3G coverage is based on population rather than geography. Therefore, if big cities are covered, population coverage targets are hit. We have been suggesting and lobbying hard for geographical targets, so that Northern Ireland has its own mobile phone coverage target. The 4G spectrum will be on the market very soon, and we hope that we can have a regional target for mobile phone coverage, which would help not only with coverage but with roaming charges.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

In looking at mobile phone coverage issues, will the Minister take into particular consideration areas in Northern Ireland that have absolutely no coverage and have become black spots? I am thinking in particular of one area in my constituency, Dervock, where, when you enter the village, your mobile phone reception disappears. I welcome what the Minister did on the superfast broadband for rural communities, but will she now give an assurance that she will go back to the providers and continue to put pressure on them to deliver a service for the benefit of our constituents?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. It relates to those targets again because, unfortunately, providers will not deliver unless they are pushed to do so. I understand that the target for 4G across the UK is 95%, but that will not help people in Dervock because that target can be reached just by looking at higher-density population areas. In the telecoms action plan for the coming years, we need to push Ofcom and get that issue resolved and then see where infill solutions are needed, in the way that we have done with broadband. There is a need to do that for mobile, particularly with 4G, which will allow fast data to be processed in a way that it is not at present.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I follow on from Pat Doherty’s question about roaming charges, which have a significant impact, particularly in cross-border regions. People living in Derry do not even have to be in Donegal to find themselves on O2 Ireland. It happens frequently to hundreds of people, who incur additional costs. Given the lack of co-operation from phone companies, particularly here, is it not time that the Minister supported a call for Ofcom to implement regulations that will, as Pat Doherty suggested, decrease roaming charges?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

If the Member had listened to my response to the first question, he would have heard that that will come as part of a European solution in any event. I recognise what he said about phone coverage. I will let him and the rest of the House into a secret: when I am in Brookeborough, I am on something that I should not be on — and that is the phone. [Laughter.] Moving swiftly on, what I am saying is that I am on a Republic of Ireland tariff. There is a great need to have that matter sorted out and for the European Commission to deal with the issue. It is a cross-border issue, and the Commission really needs to get to grips with it. It tried to set a maximum tariff, but I fully accept the Member’s point. It should be a zero tariff; there should not be any additional cost. However, that is an issue across Europe. It is not just on this island; it is a matter for the whole of Europe.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

5. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment whether her Department plans to produce an energy strategy to help improve energy security and energy independence. (AQO 283/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

A new strategic energy framework (SEF) was approved by the Executive, and I published it in September 2010. It sets out clear priorities for Northern Ireland’s energy future over the next 10 years and identifies the key energy goals of building competitive markets, ensuring security of supply, enhancing sustainability and developing our energy infrastructure. The framework also confirmed new renewable energy targets of 40% renewable electricity and 10% renewable heat by 2020.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

What is the Minister’s assessment of the strategy to date? What areas, if any, has she already identified for improvement?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Following the publication of the strategic energy framework, work was taken forward on the development of a framework implementation plan. That is being used to track the progress against the various SEF targets and will also be used to update the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment regularly. The framework was launched in September 2010, so it is too early for a yearly adjustment or monitor, but I am sure that we will have that before the end of the year, after which we will see what progress we are making on those issues.

Since the introduction of the Northern Ireland renewables obligation (NIRO) for renewable electricity, we have moved from 3% to 10%. Things are moving ahead. I accept that it is a difficult context to keep pushing in that regard, particularly at a time of rising costs. As I have said previously, however, there is more than one goal in our energy policy. Sometimes, those are competing goals, and it is a matter of balancing all of them.

Environment

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question 14 has been withdrawn and requires a written answer.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

1. asked the Minister of the Environment to detail the total amount of illegal waste dumped in Northern Ireland from the Republic of Ireland in the last two years; and the fines and prosecutions that his Department has imposed as a result. (AQO 294/11-15)

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I welcome all Members back to the House after the summer recess, and I thank the Member for his question, the answer to which will surprise him as much as it surprised me. During the past two years, only one incident of waste from the Republic of Ireland has come to the attention of the Department. I say that that might be surprising because your intuition would tell you that it might be more than that, given the history of illegal waste disposal in the North. As of now, there has been only one report. I have asked that we check with the PSNI to determine whether it is aware of any other reports, but, ultimately, it is for the community to report to the Department or the police if they are concerned about potential illegal waste being dumped in the North of Ireland. As one of my officials said to me yesterday, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Yes, I am surprised, given the extensive amount of media coverage on the issue of illegal dumping. My perception was that there is a strong cross-border racket in that area. Is the Minister convinced that he is getting as much support as he requires from the statutory authorities on the other side of the border to help establish whether it is a minimal problem, as he has identified it, or whether there is a need for greater coverage?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I cannot go into some detail because, although matters are brought to my attention as Minister, the Northern authorities, through the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA), and the Southern authorities work on enforcement, especially on criminal activity. They work together and with the Garda Síochána and the PSNI in tracking and taking action against those who may be involved in cross-border illegal waste activities. However, I am certain that the co-operation is working effectively. That is why, of the 17 sites where illegal dumping has been identified in the North, two, in Trillick and Slattinagh, have been cleared. A site in Ballymartin in County Down is currently being cleared. Those may have been the critical sites, and, over the next five years, the other sites will be cleared at a disposal cost of 100% to the Republic of Ireland authorities. Eighty per cent of the cost of removing the offending items from the North to the Republic of Ireland will be met by the Republic of Ireland authorities and 20% will be met from our own coffers. That demonstrates that the Republic of Ireland authorities are fully engaged and fully committed to the issue and are very nearly fully funding it.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Given that an element of dumping is still taking place, does the Minister intend to reimburse the local authorities, which sometimes have to fork out for the bill? It is still an issue.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. The question framed by Mr Newton was about dumping from the Republic of Ireland. If Mr Boylan has information that that practice is continuing in a major or minor way, I ask him to bring it to the attention of my Department, the NIEA, the PSNI and, indeed, the authorities in the South. As I indicated, if we, as MLAs, members of the community and citizens, have evidence, that evidence needs to be acted on. I encourage the Member to fulfil that. I do not intend to establish a precedent that, where there is illegal dumping of municipal or domestic waste that is then cleared by councils, the responsibility to reimburse councils should fall to central government. That would create a principle that is not sustainable. However, if there are issues around cross-border dumping of waste, that is a responsibility that falls to the respective Governments, North and South.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Has the Minister formed a view on whether the existence of three waste bodies is the best way forward?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

That issue occupies my mind disproportionately at the current time, not least because the process of procurement is advancing, and we may be entering a critical phase in moving to some further developments with the three procurement groups. It preoccupies my mind disproportionately because we are talking about expenditure measured in hundreds of millions of pounds and contracts that extend over 25 years, and the responsibility for paying for those contracts falls to the ratepayers of our local councils. Clearly, given the scale of the issue and costs, any Minister should be preoccupied with that issue. However, a decision has been taken, and the outworking of that decision continues. I have to be mindful of the contractual and legal situation that arises, but I acknowledge that, as we proceed with the procurements — if that is what emerges in terms of the affordability and deliverability of those three procurement groups — we must not lose sight of the fact that, in the waste hierarchy, recycling and reusing waste are the primary tools for dealing with municipal and domestic rubbish.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

2. asked the Minister of the Environment what discussions he has had with the Minister of Finance and Personnel in relation to the reduction of carbon emissions generated by the public sector estate. (AQO 295/11-15)

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Before the Minister answers, I announce that question 3 has been withdrawn.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I am grateful for the question, and I am grateful that Mr McNarry will not be in the Chamber to ask his question. I should point out to the members of the Ulster Unionist Party that I mean that with all due respect.

I should confirm that the issue of the government estate does not fall to me but to the Department of Finance and Personnel. However, it is important that we fulfil our obligations and stretch ourselves when it comes to carbon reduction and emissions. That is why one of my interventions as Minister — I view myself as an interventionist Minister — was to create a cross-departmental working group to ensure that our obligations on carbon reduction and carbon capture across Departments are pushed and pursued over the coming period. That and the other interventions from my Department should allow the North of Ireland to fulfil its obligations to Europe on the reduction of carbon emissions. Indeed, as I intend to announce in the near future, I believe that the North of Ireland is well placed to push itself further to achieve higher levels of reduction in emissions than those that we are internationally obliged to reach.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his response. There are vast swathes of surplus land in public ownership. Will the Minister comment on whether Northern Ireland Water land in particular could be better utilised for energy creation?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I want to be careful not to step on the toes of Mr Kennedy and his responsibilities for regional development and NI Water. That issue has not come on to my radar. Equally, however, I have created an interdepartmental working group to interrogate the issue of emissions reduction in government and its functions. Although NI Water clearly has a separate legal status from government, I would like to think and I anticipate that, during conversations at that interdepartmental working group, the Department for Regional Development (DRD) might come to me and express a view on behalf of NI Water on the very point that Mr Gardiner raises.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I think that we would all join in welcoming the progress here on the reduction of carbon emissions in recent years. However, has the Minister given any consideration to the reintroduction of a carbon reduction scheme, which would have played a major role in that progress and reduction?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

As the Member will be aware, our obligations and a lot of the policy direction and strategy on carbon emissions emanate from the London Government. In that regard, the Member might make a good point.

I concur with him, though, that good progress has been made in recent years: compared with 1990 levels, carbon emissions have been reduced by 20%. Given that our target is to reduce 1990-level emissions by 25% by 2025, it is clear that we are on the right course to achieve those outcomes. That is why I intend, if the Executive endorse my bringing forward a climate and environment Bill, to include much more challenging emission targets in that Bill than the 25% by 2025 that we are currently obliged to fulfil.

We have to be careful because figures can disguise the full facts. However, if we compare our targets with, say, Scotland’s, on the face of it we are substantially behind its potential achievement. Scotland aims for a 42% reduction on 1990-level emissions by 2025. Given the scale of the issue and the size of the North, it seems to me that we should stretch ourselves, and do so in a climate and environmental Bill, to do what Scotland has done in setting challenging emission targets.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Does he agree that, in the absence of a climate Act, our 2025 target of 25% should be seen as a minimum target? If he will indulge me, does he also agree that we need to be careful that current reductions are not due just to recessionary factors?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his questions. It is the function of all Ministers to indulge Members, so I will certainly indulge him further. Yes, that is my view: I would not declare in the Chamber that I intend to include a more challenging target in a climate Bill than that to which we are already committed unless I believed that 25% by 2025 is the least that we can achieve. The economic situation is not the least among many variables that would influence that target. However, in my view, the direction of travel confirms that 25% will be achieved. Consequently, achieving 35% and 40% is within our grasp.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as na freagraí a thug sé go dtí seo. Ba mhaith liom an méid seo a fhiafraí den Aire.

Bearing in mind the outlandish views held by some previous Ministers of the Environment, will the Minister indicate his own views on global warming and climate change?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. Go raibh míle maith agat. Let me make my view clear: I do not believe that the world is flat; I do not believe that babies arrive in the mouths of storks — I checked that out with my wife [Laughter.] and she tends to agree with me. I also have an open mind when it comes to the age of the Giant’s Causeway. However, I do not have an open mind when it comes to the weight of science in relation to climate change and global warming. People should have their views, but it is the role of Ministers to take into account best evidence and the overwhelming view of science. In my view, Ministers who disregard best evidence and the overwhelming view of science do not fulfil their ministerial responsibilities as fully as they should.