Northern Ireland Assembly, 27 September 2011

304 contributions from 69 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I want to raise a matter that was raised last week in the House by Mr Allister and, subsequently, Mr McCrea. I think Mr McCrea was raising it on behalf of Mr Allister. It is around the whole issue of the speaking order in debates in the Chamber. I know some Members have quoted Standing Order 17(5). First, I refer Members to Standing Order 17(4), which requires the Business Committee to consult the Speaker about general arrangements for debates, including the order of speaking and the number of speakers in any debate in the Assembly, as mentioned in Standing Order 17(5). The arrangements for the order of speaking and for the number of speakers in any debate were agreed by the Business Committee some time ago.

I have to say that, sometimes, I think Members are raising that particular point of order out of ignorance of the business of the House. That disturbs me. Some Members have been here for some time, and I know that there are Members who are newly elected to the House, so, maybe, they still have to learn the procedures of the Assembly. To date, the Business Committee has not consulted with me under Standing Order 17(4) about any proposals to change those arrangements.

Let me say as well that Members who raise issues about the length of debates in the House and, continually, about who should speak in the House, must know that all those arrangements are made through the Business Committee in consultation with the Speaker. Members who are members of the Business Committee need to raise it in the Business Committee. There is no point raising it in points of orders in the House. If those arrangements need to be changed, that should be raised in the Business Committee.

Let me also explain the arrangements for speaking order in the House. In the first round of speakers, parties with two or more Members will be called in order of party strength. [Interruption.] Order. After that, the order of speaking will reflect the proportions of parties’ strength in the Assembly. That has always been the case. Whenever I am in the Chair, I am always very mindful of trying to get the balance of parties in the Chamber to where we need it. Sometimes that it not always possible, but I would like to think that, as far as possible, most, if not all, the parties do quite well when it comes to speaking on any item of business in the House.

Finally, I hope that Members will accept that it has been the practice of all of us who have sat in the Chair in recent years to use our discretion in allowing single-Member parties and independent Members to contribute to debates. Let me say that that will always be the case. Let me also say that I must tell those Members from single-Member parties that it will not always be possible to get them in. We have Members who believe that, every time they put their name down on a speaking list, they should automatically get in. In fact, they go so far as to demand to get in. [Interruption.] Order. We also have Members who abuse Standing Orders by raising this issue continually, and then we have Members who challenge the authority of the Chair. Let me say that, from here on in, any Member who continually abuses Standing Orders will be dealt with, and any Member who continually challenges the authority of the Chair will equally be dealt with. What I mean by “dealt with” is that those Members will not be called to speak for some time in any debate in the Chamber. So, I do not want party leaders or Chief Whips coming to me to make a case for a Member who will not be called in the House for some time.

I hope that I, as the Speaker, have made my position absolutely clear this morning. If there is any issue that any Member is not sure about or does not understand, they should please come and talk to me outside the Chamber. I will not take any points of orders on this issue this morning.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I wonder why.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I warn the Member that he is sailing very close to the wind in challenging the authority of the Chair. If the Member continues, he will not be called to speak in any debate in the Chamber for some time. I warn the Member, so I hope that he understands exactly where I, as Speaker, am coming from.

Ministerial Statements

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The First Minister, the Rt Hon Peter Robinson, intends to make a statement to the House.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Mr Speaker, I am grateful to you for the opportunity to report to the Assembly on the successful visit to the United States that the deputy First Minister and I undertook from Monday 12 September to Friday 16 September. We were accompanied by the Invest NI chief executive, Alastair Hamilton, and, for the Los Angeles leg of the visit, by the NI Screen chief executive, Richard Williams.

The key purpose of our visit was to promote the local economy through a series of high-profile engagements, and we had direct engagement with senior American executives. The visit brought us to Los Angeles, Silicon Valley, Chicago and New York, and our programme concentrated on three sectors of our economy: creative industries; information and communication technology (ICT); and business services. Those sectors have been gaining significant momentum in recent months and have stimulated the interest of potential investors in the United States. The objective was twofold: to promote the tremendous potential that we have in these sectors, and to bring new jobs to Northern Ireland.

Over the past six months, there has been a concerted effort by Invest Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Screen and the Northern Ireland Bureau to highlight the best that we have to offer in the creative industries. While in Los Angeles, we met with senior executives representing industry leaders in film and television, video gaming, and mobile applications companies. We presented the Northern Ireland proposition for television and film to Warner Brothers, Sony, Disney and Fox, while consolidating our existing relationship with HBO. We also broadened our discussions, which, until now, have focused on production work, into the realm of post-production with Technicolor and Deluxe. On the video-gaming front, we established new contacts with household names such as Activision Publishing Incorporated, who are looking for just the type of game developers who are beginning to emerge from our universities.

The culmination of our time in Los Angeles was our delivery of the keynote address at the Irish Technology Leadership Group’s Innovation in Entertainment event at Sony Pictures Entertainment. An audience of nearly 300 executives, ranging from film studio presidents to the leadership of global telecom companies, was exposed to an interactive technology showcase of Northern Ireland products, followed by presentations in which the deputy First Minister and I highlighted the dynamic talent pool that exists here.

On the political front, we were welcomed to city hall by Los Angeles mayor Villaraigosa, who was keen to discuss economic development and green technology and share best practice in dealing with disadvantaged youth. There are already close contacts between the PSNI and the Los Angeles Police Department, and this was an opportunity to explore additional links at political and community level.

It is also worth noting that we had a very productive meeting with Chancellor Gene Block and his senior colleagues from the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). The chancellor has put forward a proposal to establish links between UCLA, Queen’s University and the University of Ulster on conflict resolution. There have been a number of instances of ethnic and religious tensions on campus, and he indicated that there is much to be gained from a relationship with Northern Ireland.

In Silicon Valley we met an existing investor, Hewlett-Packard, and promoted the ICT opportunities that exist in Northern Ireland at an Invest NI-hosted event involving senior business people in the technology sector.

In Chicago, our focus shifted to the development and cultivation of the business/financial services sector, when we met potential and existing investors, such as Allstate. We also met the chief executive officer of United Continental Holdings Incorporated to re-enforce the importance of the Newark-Belfast route to Northern Ireland.

In New York city, we opened First Derivatives plc’s new office in the financial district. First Derivatives plc, which is headquartered in Newry, counts among its customers many of the world’s top investment banks, brokers and hedge funds. The opening of the New York office is a clear demonstration that locally grown companies can compete at the top of the financial services ladder. We concluded our visit by attending a meeting with senior executives from the New York Stock Exchange Euronext, which is an important and high-profile investor.

Throughout our visit, we engaged directly with some of the most senior business executives in those sectors that offer the greatest potential for investment in Northern Ireland. We were also able to emphasise our personal commitment to each company and to assure it that the Executive are united in their objective of supporting inward investment.

We are hopeful that the continuing efforts of Invest NI and the time commitment that we made will be rewarded in the near future with the creation of new, high-quality, sustainable jobs.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the First Minister for that update. Was there any discussion of the promotion of jobs and businesses to Northern Ireland because of the possibility of the lowering of corporation tax, or at least the possibility that Northern Ireland may be able to vary the rate of corporation tax? My question comes on the back of Minister Wilson’s suggestion last week that corporation tax may not be reduced for four years, although at least the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment said later in the week that it may come earlier. I assume, and hope, that the First Minister will confirm that. It will be a huge attraction to the US.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Virtually every company that one speaks to is keen to establish what progress is being made in relation to Northern Ireland having the ability to set its own level of corporation tax and become more competitive. That would be a distinct advantage for us. We have a package that is already competitive in the global market; making a dent in corporation tax would make us unbeatable.

As to when we might be in a position to do so, the Government are considering the consultation responses, which were overwhelmingly in favour of Northern Ireland having the power to lower corporation tax, and they will then announce their next steps.

In relation to the Finance Minister’s statement, I think that the Member needs to look more carefully at what the Finance Minister said. He indicated that there would be a lead-in time, but I suspect that there will be no delay if the Executive have satisfactory opportunity to take over corporation tax powers. However, they might well determine that there will be a delayed or phased start. Therefore, the financial implications for our Budget would not be felt until the tail end of the present comprehensive spending review period.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I thank the First Minister for his statement to the House this morning. Will he recount the feedback that he received directly from senior US executives on their experiences of investing in Northern Ireland? In particular, will he outline any views expressed about Invest Northern Ireland?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I might not always have been able to make this kind of comment, because, for many years, there were a lot of criticisms of Invest Northern Ireland and its predecessors. However, I have to say that every single investor that we meet who has been dealing with Invest Northern Ireland speaks glowingly — and I do not think that I overstate the case — of the interaction that they have had with it. I have watched the team as we have gone around the US and other places, and I think that we have the highest standard of personnel involved, and they serve us well.

I should also add that we have a first-class team at the Northern Ireland Bureau in the United States, and this gives me an opportunity to put on record our appreciation to Norman Houston, who will be leaving that job soon. He is the most diligent worker, apart from the fact that if you visit the United States, he can arrange 4.30 am wake-up calls and keep you until 1.30 am the next morning with dinner engagements. He has been a tremendous asset, and the Department that gets him when he comes back to Northern Ireland will be well rewarded.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement, and I especially welcome his remarks regarding creative industries and disadvantaged youth. Will he assure us that when he is looking at the development of any future investment in creative industries here, people from disadvantaged backgrounds, and disadvantaged youth in particular, will be given equal opportunity of access to, and employment in, those industries?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Creative industries have a wide span, and although some elements might be place-specific, others, quite frankly, can be done anywhere. Sound, special effects and some digital work can literally be undertaken in a back room, provided that you have data access, in this case, to north America. Therefore, there are opportunities for every part of the Province to benefit. We have people coming out of our universities with skills that are in tune with what is being required, particularly in the west coast of the United States.

As regards film and television, companies already in Northern Ireland, such as HBO, are using skilled people at every level, whether it is carpenters, gardeners, or whatever, as part of their production team. Therefore, there are opportunities for every section of our community. Where there are opportunities for people who have been unemployed or for those who earn low wages, I think that we will want to jump all over those opportunities and ensure that people get the chance to really step up.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I acknowledge the First Minister and deputy First Minister’s reaching out to the gaming and creative industries, their reconnection with existing investors, and their celebration of the success of local companies operating in the United States during their trip. However, that will really mean something back home in Northern Ireland only if real jobs are brought over. Can the First Minister tell the House how many jobs were secured for Northern Ireland during the last trip to the United States?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

There is an opportunity for some Members, when asking questions, to show what they know about a subject and for some Members to show just how little they know about a subject. I thought that somebody standing for the leadership of his party would know a bit more about what time lag means for investment. Any opportunities that arise from our visit to the United States —

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

None. Zero.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

— will probably not be seen for many months to come. Any company that is taking an investment decision will look at a variety of issues. It will want to test the market in various parts of the globe. I think that our record is second to none. Indeed, had the Member taken a bit of time to do his research, he would have found that, London excepted, Northern Ireland has attracted more foreign direct investment than anywhere else in the United Kingdom.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Answer the question.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

We have a first-class record in bringing jobs back to Northern Ireland. The presence here of companies from the United States, such as the New York Stock Exchange Euronext, Citi, Terex Corporation and Dow Chemical Company, bears testimony to the good work that has been done. I have very real hopes that new jobs will come to Northern Ireland as a direct result of the visit, and I look forward to announcements about those jobs.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the First Minister for his statement and welcome the positive engagement with investors in the US. He mentioned the video gaming sector and discussed helping disadvantaged youth. He will be aware of alternative education programmes in his constituency that develop the skills of young people from that background. What plans does he have to connect those young people with opportunities in the sector that may emerge as a result of the visit?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

A number of existing companies, not just in East Belfast but in many parts of the Province, will benefit from jobs in the creative industries sector. I recently visited a company in my constituency that provides score and background music for film and television. The real benefit of a number of the digital and sound technology elements is that they can be done at remote locations, which gives us the opportunity to be able to do work in Northern Ireland and to transfer that quickly to where it is required.

Invest Northern Ireland will, of course, look at opportunities, and our task will be to ensure that our universities can take up those opportunities as they come by using the existing pool of skills. The Invest Northern Ireland team is always able to point to the level of skill that is available in Northern Ireland. We have the best-educated young people in the whole of the United Kingdom. Statistically, that is a proven fact. One will find a younger population in Northern Ireland than in almost anywhere else in Europe. Some 60% of our population is under the age of 40. We have two leading universities in the Province, the skills from which are first class. Therefore, the opportunities to plug in are there and will continue to be there. If the Member has any specific issue that he wants to raise on the matter, I hope that he will contact either me or the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, and we will be happy to make connections for him.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the First Minister for today’s statement. The House will know the importance, not only for tourism but for business, of the transatlantic link between New York and Northern Ireland. The First Minister indicated that he met the CEO of United Continental Holdings on the US trip. Will the First Minister update the House on his understanding of the latest position with air passenger duty and tell us whether we will see some progress made on that issue soon?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I think that everybody in the House knows just how important that direct connection is. It has been a selling point for Invest Northern Ireland and Ministers on their visits to the US. It was an important factor in the New York Stock Exchange’s coming here, as it was for other companies, including Bombardier. On my return visit, using that Continental route, I was approached by some Bombardier staff who were coming back to Northern Ireland. It is a regular business route for a number of key investors in Northern Ireland.

As I indicated in my statement, during the visit, we met the CEO of United Continental. We appreciated the fact that, like Northern Ireland people, he is the kind of person who expresses clearly what his views are on issues. I must say that he is exactly the kind of person who I would want as CEO if I were investing in a company. He made it clear that air passenger duty was making that route unprofitable for him. We made immediate contact with the Secretary of State and the Minister of State. The progress that we have made on that issue is an excellent example of the good working relationship between the United Kingdom Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. We had immediate access to the top. We had instant action from the top. Indeed, I believe that a favourable statement from the Chancellor is anticipated later today. All who support the preservation of that route will welcome its continued existence.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Cuirim fáilte roimh ráiteas an Chéad Aire inniu. Given the ongoing concerns of the House over ever-rising energy prices and the recent indication by GlaxoSmithKline that any further expansion by it on this island is as reliant on the availability of affordable energy as on low corporation tax, can the Minister confirm whether the Executive accept that rising energy prices are a potential major obstacle to attracting foreign direct investment and whether they will take immediate action on that issue?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Anything that increases the cost of doing business in Northern Ireland has an impact on the overall attractiveness of the Northern Ireland product. Clearly, therefore, it is having an impact, particularly on those companies that are heavily reliant on energy. As far as the Executive are concerned, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, obviously, has direct responsibility for the issue. Of course, there are difficulties in interfering or involving the Executive in issues that are, effectively, private sector matters. However, on the edges, steps can be taken. Anything that can be done will be done by the Minister and the Executive.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the First Minister for his statement. I, too, support his comments about Norman Houston and the work that he has done consistently for Northern Ireland in the United States. Can the First Minister inform the House about the work that Northern Ireland Screen has done in the United States to benefit Northern Ireland?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Of course, the work of Northern Ireland Screen goes on not only in the United States but in other parts of the globe. Its success and that of the Department more generally can be seen in the success of bringing Universal Studios and HBO to carry out work in Northern Ireland and in the fact that not only was the pilot and the first series of HBO’s ‘Game of Thrones’ filmed here but filming has started on the second series. When we spoke to HBO, it was clear that it sees ‘Game of Thrones’ as one of its great success stories. Obviously, its positioning in Northern Ireland will be advantageous in the long term. The great advantage of that from Northern Ireland Screen’s point of view is that it has a product that it can showcase to other people in television and film. The Executive are very pleased with the progress that has been made and opportunities that have been derived. We wish Northern Ireland Screen well in attracting key producers to Northern Ireland in the future.

With regard to the general role of television and film in Northern Ireland, I might also add that, several years ago, Northern Ireland was probably the last destination that any film or television company would have considered.

We should not underestimate the importance of stable political structures and peace in Northern Ireland in attracting those people in particular. Politicians who think that it is good politics to go out and rubbish Northern Ireland and try to create instability have a direct impact on the jobs that are available to people in Northern Ireland. Those who try to drag us back, as some do, even some in this House, should think twice about the impact of that, even in their own constituencies.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the First Minister for his statement and his good work in promoting Northern Ireland abroad.

Like many others, I am particularly keen to see the creative industries boosted. Looking ahead to the arrival of the MTV Europe music awards next year, has the First Minister had an opportunity to assess the potential damage from the news that the pop icon Rihanna was foiled in her filming ambitions yesterday, which were no more sinister than to appear in a field dressed in red, white and blue?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I am pretty sure that there was no problem with the colours involved. I take it that the Member has a field on his estate, so if she needs an alternative filming location he will be happy to offer her that.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the First Minister for his statement. All of us wish well the progress on investment for all of us in Northern Ireland that could be brought about by such visits. I suspect that, if the First Minister and deputy First Minister had gone to America with a lower rate of corporation tax in their back pockets, or at least the promise of it in the near future, there might have been greater attendance and greater interest. Will the First Minister comment on that? What is his assessment of the potential for Northern Ireland in relation to the creative industries?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The Member is right: if a lower level of corporation tax were part of the Northern Ireland product, it would become much more exciting for many. We have to recognise that there are some business opportunities out there that are not reliant on corporation tax, because they will be back-office and their profits will therefore not be realised in the UK. There are some types of business that will be very tuned in to what is happening with corporation tax, although even our present rate of corporation tax is lower than the rate paid by many in the United States.

As far as the creative industries are concerned, it is evident from the large numbers of people who have come forward to be part of the HBO and Universal experience and who have looked for the 600 or 700 jobs that have been created that there are massive opportunities, which is why we are moving ahead with the building of the second studio at the Titanic Quarter. That is also why we look at the opportunities for satellite locations: HBO uses about four locations in Northern Ireland, which, again, helps the local economy. It is bringing millions of pounds of spend into our local economy.

That is just film and television. The big opportunities lie in digital technology, sound effects, music and all of those areas. One might even include politics in the creative industries bracket. There are massive opportunities for improvement all round. A lot of young people need to start looking at doing STEM subjects in our universities so that we have people coming forward to take the jobs that will be created as a result of those new opportunities.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the First Minister for his statement and his encouraging words this morning about the transportation links to the United States, given the number of users of those links in my constituency, particularly FG Wilson, which has strong trade links with the USA.

First Minister, given the emphasis that you put on the film, TV and video-gaming industries, did you receive any firm commitments or strong indications that the companies that you met intend to invest in Northern Ireland?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I do not want to go into detail about specific companies. There are companies that we had follow-up meetings with that look very hopeful. The opportunities are there, and until the propositions are over the line it is better to say very little about them. There are also opportunities in financial services that are close to the line and we look forward in the next number of months to seeing the fruits of this visit.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I also thank the First Minister for his statement. It is, indeed, very important work. I note the three sectors of the economy that were covered in his statement, but will the First Minister identify whether any Northern Ireland niche industries were of particular interest to our American cousins?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

As I go around the United States, we no longer have to argue about the skill set that is available in Northern Ireland; it is taken almost as read by every investor you meet. The word spreads in the United States. People look at the companies that are here. When Ministers from Northern Ireland go to the United States, everybody would expect them to tell people just how good Northern Ireland is. However, the best selling point that we have is that over 70% of the companies that come to Northern Ireland reinvest in Northern Ireland. That means that they have tested Northern Ireland, found it beneficial and decided to invest again. That simple statistic is the best selling point that you can have when you go to any investor in the United States. The other thing that we always do is try to team them up with companies that have come to Northern Ireland.

As far as niche areas are concerned, for a very long time Invest Northern Ireland has been looking at financial services, business services, ICT, the creative industries and the new green economy. Those are the areas where there is a concentration by Invest Northern Ireland and where the value-added jobs will be found that will increase the GVA of Northern Ireland as a whole.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I commend the First Minister for the work that he is doing to drive forward that particular area of our economy. In his time as Finance Minister, significant funding was allocated to the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure to develop the creative industries. He has shown a clear commitment over the past number of years, and has taken forward that in his role as First Minister. Following his meetings in the United States with HBO and Disney, can the First Minister tell us how much of a deterrent to major US TV productions’ coming to Northern Ireland is the UK Government’s refusal to extend tax credits to TV in addition to film productions?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I am not sure I would use the term “refusal”, because the United Kingdom Government have been ahead of most other countries in the film tax credits that they give. There is an opportunity for the United Kingdom Government to substantially increase the level of television production in the UK, and we in Northern Ireland would probably benefit more than most if they were to do that.

The deputy First Minister and I spoke to the Secretary of State Owen Paterson about that issue just days ago. We hope that the sector itself will be putting a paper to the Chancellor on the issue, and we would very much support that. A distinction can, perhaps, be made between giving tax credits to television per se and giving them to certain types of television work. Perhaps it is best defined by the amount of money that is spent on a series. We are not talking about giving tax credits for ‘EastEnders’ or ‘Coronation Street’; we are talking about doing it for major television series, and we will press that issue with the United Kingdom Government, as I think the sector will. That is an area of opportunity, and it is not so much a refusal by the Government as their not yet having agreed to it.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I thank the First Minister for his statement. I note that, during the visit, Chancellor Block of the University of California outlined proposals to establish links between the University of California, Queen’s University and the University of Ulster. Will the First Minister outline what collaboration exists between the United States and Northern Ireland universities? What potential is there for the future?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Most of the major US companies that are based in Northern Ireland already have contacts with the University of Ulster and with Queen’s in relation to research and development work. Our two universities are probably ahead of the field in having a good working relationship with companies, not just in R&D work but in ensuring that their students come out with the kind of skills that companies are looking for.

UCLA has a particular interest in conflict resolution. We told it of our exciting proposals for the Maze/Long Kesh, which have excited a lot of people who deal with conflict resolution. We want to ensure that the site will attract international as well as local use. UCLA is looking at a particular project, as it has some tensions on campus, perhaps more on an ethnic than religious basis, that it wants to address proactively. It sees the kind of work that has been done in Northern Ireland as fitting comfortably with the kind of work that it needs to do. We are looking at direct contact between the universities, and politicians in Northern Ireland will be asked to play a part in that project.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I was tempted to ask the First Minister whether it was something that he said or did in the United States that caused his partner, the deputy First Minister, to look for alternative employment.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I must say that the Member really does push the barriers. I have said in this House for some time — [Interruption.] I have said in this House for some time that questions sometimes grow legs. Quite obviously, that is what the Member intends this morning. [Interruption.]

Order. I ask the Member to take his seat. I will now move on. [Interruption]. Order. The Member needs to learn the lesson that there are protocols, Standing Orders and conventions of this House that relate to him, as they do to any other Member.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Only to me.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I now say to the Member directly that the Member will not be called in any debate in this House for some time.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

You are doing your master’s bidding.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Your peerage is safe.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Member will not be called to speak in this House for some time.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

This House is a disgrace to democracy.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Take your seat and sit down.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

This House is a disgrace to basic democracy. There is a voice, and it will be heard whether you, Mr Speaker, like it or not.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I know what the Member is trying to do: he is almost trying to be a martyr. I know exactly what the Member is trying to do. The Member should take his seat and be quiet. We will now move on.

Order, Members. That ends questions to the First Minister and deputy First Minister’s statement. We now move on to a statement from the Minister of Health, Social Services —

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like you to look at the remarks made by the Member for North Antrim, who squeaked in on the eighth or ninth count without reaching the quota.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

What about East Belfast? What about Westminster?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

He claimed that you were “doing your master’s bidding” and that “your peerage is safe”. Those contemptuous remarks need a response, and I ask you to look at them.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety wishes to make a statement to the House.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I wish to make a statement to the Assembly on the review of health and social care (HSC) services. In June, I announced a review of health and social care here to examine the future provision of services, including our acute hospital configuration, the development of primary healthcare services and social care, and the interfaces between sectors.

I initiated the review to set a new reform agenda that will give new and much stronger momentum for progress towards my vision and purpose for health and social care in Northern Ireland, which I think is widely shared and supported. Everyone wants the best possible service. There is also very wide recognition of the need to focus on health and well-being through prevention and a strong public health agenda, not just on services. However, those aspirations have not had enough impact on our ways of working and the benefits that can be delivered for the population. Given the current economic context, that is even more important than previously.

I want the review to ensure that health and social care services are focused, shaped and equipped to improve the quality of care and outcomes for the population and to provide value for money in financially challenging times. It is clear that the delivery of the full range of services in Northern Ireland is unsustainable in its current form if we are to deliver the best outcomes for citizens and maintain the highest level of quality and safety of services.

Here, as in all parts of the Western World, we face a combination of demographic change with an ageing population, advances in medicine and technology, and rising public expectations. The effect is to make it necessary to continue the reform journey of the NHS model of universal care.

The three key principles are that health services are generally free at the point of delivery, funded by taxation and promise that the best available cost-effective treatments or services will be provided. I believe that the Assembly is fully committed to those principles, but we have to recognise the fact that the rising level of need for health and social care services, the need to focus on outcomes and the increasingly constrained financial context make it increasingly difficult to hold to those NHS principles. I believe that we can continue to deliver those principles only if we support a radical programme of service change and reconfiguration, and act strongly and corporately in the interests of all the people whom we serve, even when that means making difficult decisions at constituency level.

I want that to be the main backdrop to the planning process that we must undertake and the decisions that will have to be made over the coming years. Fundamentally, the largest element is that there needs to be a shift from the hospital setting as the key focus of health service provision to the community.

I want the review to be led by the vision that I have summarised and by the need to secure the quality and safety of services for all parts of Northern Ireland. I expect and hope that leaders across health and social care services will speak up and contribute to leading the process of change. It is not just about cost cutting, although there is a need to adjust to a very challenging budgetary context. I believe that if we address the key issues, we can and will find a way forward that can meet the needs and aspirations of our community.

We face challenging times, not just in the health and social care sector but with the economy in general. The Executive provided the health and social care sector with some protection through the Budget settlement by increasing spending by 8% from £4·3 billion in 2011-12 to £4·6 billion in 2014. That may sound generous, but given the increasing demands faced by the health and social care sector, it is a very difficult settlement indeed.

England faces the unprecedented challenge of delivering cost improvements of £20 billion, or 4% a year for four years. The position here is similar. If the same level of service provision was delivered in the same pattern as previously, we would face an estimated shortfall against assessed needs of approximately £800 million in 2014-15. It is incumbent on us all to make the best use of every penny of taxpayers’ money that is provided for health and social care services here.

Let me be clear: I fully acknowledge the difficult economic climate in which we operate, and, within that context, my primary focus is on quality, accessibility and safety of patient care. We must, therefore, focus on using resources in the right way and spending our money on the right things. My vision for the future of health and social care services is that we drive up the quality of care for clients and patients, improve outcomes and enhance the patient and client experience. In part, that must involve improving productivity and ensuring that the resources are used wisely. That should not come as a surprise to anyone.

We should always strive to deliver efficient and cost-effective services in every area of public service. We need a greater involvement of front line professionals in decision-making and service development. Local commissioning of services should have an increasingly important role to play in future in driving change, innovation and service improvement. I would also like to see increasing involvement of the charity and voluntary sectors in providing services.

I have stated that I want to see a shift in care from hospitals to the community. We have to be responsive to the world we live in and treat patients at a time and place that is convenient for them. I want to see patients being treated in the right place, at the right time and by the right people; that means limiting and, where possible, eliminating unnecessary hospital admissions. Too much work is being carried out in hospitals that should be carried out at primary care level. It will mean ensuring the provision of good intermediate care, rehabilitation and community support.

We need to promote the use of multidisciplinary community teams for chronic conditions such as heart failure and chest disease. Through managing such long-term conditions in the primary and community sector we will provide the information, support and early interventions that will enable people to manage their conditions better and maintain their independence. We will also reduce the number of avoidable hospital admissions. People who are provided with that type of support are more likely to experience better health and well-being, use their medicines effectively, remain at home and have greater confidence. They will also have a sense of control and better mental health.

The recommendations of the health and social care review will provide a firm basis on which we can proceed in the planning, development and delivery of services. Part of our success will be judged by the extent to which we are able to challenge the status quo, stop doing what does not work and acknowledge that the current design of some of today’s services is no longer fit for purpose. We need to be innovative in our approach, build on what is good and learn from our experiences.

We also have to take account of evidence on how the arrangements for the delivery of services in the Republic of Ireland and in other parts of the United Kingdom have operated, and to identify opportunities for co-operation with service providers there in helping to realise the objectives for health and social care here. Although we have to live within our means, the focus and motivation of the review is not about saving money. It is about improving the quality of services, the outcomes for service users and the overall patient and client experience.

Changing the configuration of how, where and when services are delivered is only one part of the equation. We need to encourage greater personal responsibility among members of the public for their own health and well-being in relation to what they eat, how much alcohol they consume, how much exercise they take and the way in which they look after their own health and well-being. That will require a sustained and growing investment in public health, early diagnosis and early intervention services to support individuals to make healthier choices.

We must also manage demand and expectations by ensuring that usage of the health and social care services is appropriate. Accident and emergency departments in our hospitals, for example, should be dealing with accidents and emergencies. They should not be used as a surrogate for services already provided by GP’s and other primary care providers. The Ambulance Service should be called only when genuinely needed.

In moving forward, I want to promote greater involvement of front line professionals in decision-making. They know better than anyone else what is working particularly well in their ward or clinic, what needs fine-tuned and where broader improvements can be made across the service. Their input is vital to successful delivery of safe and effective services.

I believe that the voluntary and community sector has an important contribution to make in offering services and assisting health and social care to find solutions to complex issues. You would have to travel a long way to find a more dedicated workforce than the nurses and other staff in Northern Ireland’s health and social care services. However, elements of the third sector also have a strong track record in specific areas such as mental health, dementia, brain injury and learning disability. We should embrace that and benefit from it.

I will not shy away from using private providers too, where it makes sense for us to do so. Our small population means that the private sector will only ever play a relatively minor role compared with Great Britain, but it is still a crucial one in relation to nursing home provision, for instance. I will not be setting out to use independent providers for the sake of it, but where there is a clear case that they can deliver a high-quality, safe service for a lower cost to the taxpayer, it would be irresponsible of me not to make use of them.

The review is necessary to ensure the realisation of my vision for health and social care. Difficult choices must be made and priorities set. We must stop doing what does not work, become more assertive in challenging out-of-date practices and acknowledge that some of today’s services and their current design are no longer fit for purpose.

I believe that reconfiguration of service delivery is needed to protect patient safety and enhance effectiveness. I also believe that it is a powerful means of improving access to and equality of services for all our citizens who need and deserve them.

I published the review’s terms of reference on 25 August. I have asked John Compton, chief executive of the Health and Social Care Board and acting in an ex officio capacity, to lead the review, which will draw on external expertise in the form of an expert panel whose membership is drawn from a variety of relevant backgrounds, including health and social care, policy, clinical business and academic work. The panel comprises Professor Chris Ham, chief executive of the King’s Fund; Professor Deirdre Heenan, provost and dean of academic development at the University of Ulster; Dr Ian Rutter, a general practitioner; Paul Simpson, a retired civil servant; and Mark Ennis, the executive chair of SSE Ireland.

I have made it clear that the review must be evidence-based, with robust analyses and conclusions on future service delivery. The expert panel will provide independent assurance on the approach, methodology, analyses and conclusions of the review. I am confident that the review will benefit immensely from the experience and knowledge of the expert panel members. I have set a challenging timescale for the completion of the review, because it is important that clarity is provided urgently on the future direction of health and social care here. I have asked the review team to provide me with a report by 30 November 2011. Health and social care cannot continue to operate as it has done. There are simply not the resources to do so, and action will be required to ensure that we provide safe and effective services to the people here for the future.

I have also made it clear that I want the review to be conducted in an open and transparent manner. To facilitate that, I have asked the review team to ensure that there are appropriate opportunities for public consultation and engagement with key stakeholders. Where appropriate, I will also consult on the implications of the final review report. We face difficult challenges, and we need an evidence-based debate on how we move forward. It is important that there are opportunities for effective consultation with the public, and I want anyone who feels that they have a contribution to make, or who wishes their voice to be heard, to be able to provide comments. Those who have a view on how we can face all those challenges have the opportunity to make their case to the review, and they should do so.

It will not be possible for the review team to hold separate meetings with every interested group, particularly in view of the timescales for the work. The review team has set up a website to receive comments and to disseminate information relating to the review’s progress. The website will signpost interested groups and individuals towards a range of ways that they can express their views. I am confident that the review’s findings and recommendations will enable me to plan and ensure that money is spent on the right things at the right time in the right place, while enhancing overall quality of care and patient experience. A key aspect of that will be the delivery of more services in the community and in people’s homes.

For the medium to long term, decisions on reconfiguring health and social care will be based on the outcome of the review, and my longer-term priorities and objectives for HSC will be informed by it. Members should note that I expect to have to make some necessary and tough decisions. However, I will not make any long-term decisions or set any long-term priorities or objectives for health and social care in Northern Ireland without the full range of information being available to me. There will be consultation with stakeholders and the public on any major reconfiguration of services proposed in the light of the review’s recommendations. Nothing has been agreed or ruled out at this stage, and nor should it be. I can state with certainty that we face unacceptable risks if change does not happen.

I intend to report back to the Assembly and the Health Committee on the progress of the review of the HSC service in due course. I thank Members for their support in taking the review forward. We need to provide strategic leadership in progressing this important work. It is vital, particularly in these challenging times when hard decisions must be taken, that we all pull together for the good and the health of the people of Northern Ireland. I commend the statement to the House.

Michelle Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh míle maith agaibh, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement. Given that his budget is double what it was 10 years ago, there is certainly scope for managing that budget better without impacting on front line services.

I have a couple of points to make. The terms of reference for the review indicated that consultation would not happen. I welcome what seems to be a shift in that position.

I imagine that the Minister will face some resistance from consultants, who have benefited from the prioritisation of hospital work to date. That group has managed to extract £11 million in bonuses every year from the Department. How does the Minister plan to get that group on board, in order to achieve his priorities?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The enhanced bonuses that consultants have received will not happen again this year. Most people enter the medical field because they have, to a greater or lesser extent, a passion to help others. People who become consultants generally leave school with many opportunities to go into a variety of fields, in some of which they could earn considerably more money, such as business or legal areas of responsibility. Many of them choose to become doctors because they care for other people and want to help them. In Northern Ireland, we need the support of everyone in the health and social care sector to make improvements. Many consultants want to move things forward and recognise that we really need to change and challenge things. I have had the opportunity to speak to many of them, and they recognise the importance of changing the service.

I note that the Chairperson of the Committee recognises that there is a strongly held desire to bring more care services to the primary care level and move them away from the acute level, to deliver a better kind of service to the public. Most consultants recognise that also.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

The Minister has clearly outlined perhaps one of the most significant documents to have appeared on the health scene in Northern Ireland for at least a decade; only ‘Developing Better Services’ in 2002 is more significant. He has outlined what will happen between now and 30 November. Will he outline in detail what input the public will have once the document is published? Will the document be the subject of a debate in the Assembly?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

It certainly will. The document will go through a process, and public consultation will take place. There will be opportunities for the public to write in and express their point of view. There will be opportunities for interest groups, including the trade unions and the various representative bodies of professionals, to make their case as to what should and should not happen in future.

How we proceed after the review is concluded will be down to ministerial choices and decisions. We will decide whether we will implement the review and how we will do so. I am minded to implement it. It is my duty as Minister to consult the House, the Health Committee and the public on key decisions that affect them. Once the review is completed, there will be public consultations on those decisions.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I welcome the Minister’s statement and the acceptance that there was an £800 million shortfall, about which there seemed to be some dispute. He put strong emphasis on the need to encourage greater personal responsibility among members of the public and engage with them about their health. I am fully supportive of that. Before the election, his party expressed a commitment to double spending in that area. How does that sit with its recommendation to do away with the Public Health Agency or merge it into the board? If the review wants to keep it, will it or his election manifesto take priority?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The £800 million shortfall exists if you do nothing. There may have been Ministers who thought that sitting for four years doing nothing was a good policy. That may have been the view of previous Ministers, but it is not the view of the current Minister. I will take actions to ensure that we do not have an £800 million shortfall and will change the health service to accommodate public finances.

The public health agenda is critical. As Minister, I will not get any personal benefit from investing in it, but I am wholly committed to it. We need to make a challenge to bring about a generational change. Indeed, this morning, I was in Craigavon with representatives from NIPPA and CAWT launching an initiative called ‘Healthier Families, Healthier Choices’. It is about educating children from the earliest years about lifestyle choices, the diets that they choose, good exercise and obesity. Those are the things that will reduce the burden on the health service in the future, and future generations will get real benefit from the actions that we take now.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am sure that he will concede that, if there were a ward for review fatigue, it would be quite full. This is the second day that the public are to be informed of cuts across the public sector.

The Minister talked about a shift from hospital care to community care. That is a long-standing principle that goes back to the Thatcher years. Will the Minister assure us that the money that is saved from the closure of hospitals will go into resources in the community before the hospitals are closed?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That is an interesting comment, but I am not sure whether the Member is right. She talked about going back to the Thatcher years and about closing hospitals, but no one has mentioned closing hospitals. We are talking about improving services and living within our budget. We need to offer a different kind of service to achieve that. We can make considerable savings by having fully equipped diabetes clinics and chest clinics to ensure that many people do not end up needing hospital care. The shift from acute care to primary care is absolutely necessary, and, in the first instance, we need to establish qualitative primary care, where people do not require to go to hospital. We are not about closing hospitals but about providing the right level of care at the right location and having the need matched with the service. Let us get the proper requirement for the community in the first instance and then take whatever happens thereafter.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his statement. It contained a lot of detail, but there was also a lot of waffle. The Minister said:

“it is not just about cost cutting”

and:

“the review is not about saving money”.

He also said:

“We must stop doing what does not work”.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member to come to a question.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I am coming to it, but this is very important. The Minister will know perfectly well what works, namely minor injuries units and the services provided by chemists and pharmacies up and down the land, which are threatened. Those services keep people away from GPs and out of hospital. Will the Minister give an assurance that the review will consider properly how we can address demand pressures through a full consideration of prevention and early intervention with public health? I draw his attention to his officials —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I could go on.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member’s point on pharmacists is puerile. I made my position on the public health agenda clear to the previous Member who spoke.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I am encouraged that the review is to include consultation with the public and with stakeholders. I agree with the Minister that a big change is required in the delivery of service in Northern Ireland. Should the review find a need for redundancies, will that be done in consultation with the unions?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We have not had any redundancies heretofore. We were told and the public were told earlier this year that there would be 4,000 redundancies this year to enable us to live within our means.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

Who said that, John?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I cannot recall who said it — well, I can. However, I have not had to make any compulsory redundancies. Let us be clear about that: we are not about doing away with people’s jobs or making compulsory redundancies. The review team will consult the unions because they are important stakeholders in the review. They have a significant role in the future planning, commissioning and delivery of health and social care services, and they will have the opportunity to provide their analysis during the review. I do not want to prejudge the outcome of the review; let us see what happens. However, I certainly regard the trade unions as key players in helping us to draw our analysis for the review, to understand the needs of HSC and, indeed, to deliver a quality service to the public thereafter.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Minister, there is a particular focus on moving services from hospitals to a community setting. We need to hear that the budget is shifting along with that. The fear out there is that more services will be delivered privately and the quality of care will slip. How do you intend to address that?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We will see what the review comes up with, but, at this stage, my view is that we need to provide the quality services in the community setting first. You cannot cut hospital services, transfer the money over and expect to get an outcome. You need to provide the alternative service first and act on what is needed thereafter. So, we need a significant investment in community services. I have my ideas on that, and we will see whether the review team’s ideas coincide with mine or whether new things come into play. We have an expert panel of people who have huge expertise on the issues and have worked on them in many other scenarios. I want to hear their views, put them to the House and, hopefully, be in a position to adopt them.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. How will stakeholders, patients, clients and carers benefit from the review?

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Longer waiting times.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Again, the Member tries to make a glib remark from a sedentary position. We are not about looking at longer waiting times; that will not benefit people. Let us see whether we can deal with people in a more appropriate way. I sometimes think that Members just want to blank out reality. There are certain realities. Some people think that we should go down the South American route, where you ignore the fact that you have a budget, keep spending and, at the end of the year, expect the UK Exchequer to come up with more money. That is the most undesirable option for people and staff because it would end up with services not being provided, people not being paid and our system grinding to a halt immediately. Others, including the previous Minister, went for the Castro option, whereby health was such an important issue that we invested in it to the detriment of everything else. My view is that we need an all-encompassing Budget that ensures that all services move forward in Northern Ireland. If you do not take either of those options and have a particular budget to live within, you look at how you can do things better and how you can make better use of your money.

Other Members may not wish to drive out waste. I intend to drive out waste. Other Members may not wish to initiate change because it might cause difficulties in their constituency. I intend to drive through change irrespective of those difficulties. At this point, we need people with a little courage, and, if you cannot stand the heat, Members, get out of the kitchen. If we do not initiate and embrace change in the health service and ensure that we provide a quality of service to the public, we will not deliver. I am not about not delivering. We are a party of delivery, as people well know. The electorate judged us on that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I also thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome the Minister’s shift towards primary care, with large primary care centres to act as a triage for hospital admissions. Will the Minister put in place the necessary training in such centres so that triage work will be effective, and will he explore the deployment of GPs with special interests?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member has got to the nub of what we should be about, and I thank him for his question. We will make better use of primary care centres by more often getting under one roof GPs and allied health professionals working closely together to develop their skills, with specialist GPs within a wider group of GPs, so that a series of specialisms is available to the public. That will deliver a better service, closer to people and more cost-effective. Some people may have difficulties because it is more cost-effective, but I think that it is good to deliver a better and cost-effective service. You call that a win-win. Perhaps that has passed some Members by.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank you for your statement, Minister, in which care in the community was mentioned a lot. Over the years, many documents have been published, such as ‘Putting People First’ and ‘Care in the Community’, that came to nothing. The reality is that some trusts have cut meals on wheels services. In a day, pensioners might have contact only with the person delivering those meals. That service is being cut; people are being asked to pay for it. The Minister also talked about multidisciplinary community teams. Will he ensure that the proper support infrastructure is put in place for those who want to remain in the community but cannot for health reasons? People are living longer, but they are not necessarily living healthier. By 2020, our ageing population will have doubled.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Will the Member come to his question?

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Will the Minister ensure that the proper infrastructure is put in place for the most vulnerable people in our community?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member usefully brings us to the social care aspect, and it should be remembered that this is not just about health; it is about social care. He expressed concern about some problems. There have been reductions in meals on wheels and so forth. We need to look at that because, if this review is to do what I outlined and if we are to encourage people to live in the community, we have to assist them to do that. We cannot take services away on the one hand and, on the other, say that we want more people to be treated in a community setting. That will ultimately lead to such people ending up in an acute setting. So, we have to radically look at and address how things are currently done, because we cannot achieve the outcome of reducing need and stress on the acute care sector by moving people to the community at the same time as we cut the community sector. Therefore, I thank the Member for bringing that issue to the Assembly’s attention.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Mr Speaker, the Minister told the House that it was time for a generational change and time to challenge the status quo, and you will not find me disagreeing with that statement. However, I will ask the Minister specifically about the role that the private sector may play in the future of our health service. He tells us that economies of scale do not exist at a regional level to deliver proper private sector involvement. However, they would exist on an all-island basis. If we are really up for change, I ask the Minister directly: will he start to look at how the private sector across the island of Ireland can contribute positively to the future of our health service?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I understand why the Member likes the idea of generational change, but I do not want to get into his SDLP leadership aspirations. He was talking during the statement. Perhaps, had he listened, he would have noted the comments about the opportunities of working outside the Northern Ireland jurisdiction with both the Republic of Ireland and other parts of the UK.

Northern Ireland does not have the scale of population necessary to provide all services. Therefore, it is incumbent on us to look at how we work with others to ensure that quality services are provided. If, for example, we can provide good quality services in the new hospital in Enniskillen in County Fermanagh and those services can be sustained and supported by the Republic of Ireland buying some of them, I will be very happy to look at that, and, indeed, the review will look at that. As I indicated —

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Hear, hear. He has seen the light.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

If the Member had been listening to my statement, he would have picked that up.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. How can he ensure that this will not simply be another costly exercise with little delivery, such as those we have seen in the past? Will he tell the House how much is being paid to the chairman and other expert members of the review panel?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That is a reasonable question. However, the ranting on the sidelines is unreasonable. Let us be frank: the review will set how we do things for the next 10 years, which will include a spend of around £50 billion. I know that you all think that I am brilliant in the House and that I have so much ability and knowledge myself that I do not need any help or advice. I am sorry to bring you all down a level: I will make mistakes, and I will get it wrong. However, I greatly appreciate the advice and support that I receive in trying to make the right decisions and the right choices. Therefore, asking people who have particular expertise to assist us in doing that is not foolish. There will be some financial cost in having an expert panel of advisers, and we are looking at around £52,000. A £52,000 cost to help us spend £50 billion indicates that there is a reasonable economy of scale if it helps us to make the right choices and right decisions on the way forward.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He referred to the importance of the work being carried out at primary care level and the need to use medicine effectively and help people to remain at home and have greater confidence. Do those statements not directly describe the vital services provided by local pharmacies — for example, personal dispensing trays? Will he give an assurance that pharmacists already in position will be taken into consideration as regards the services he is talking about transferring to third-party suppliers, community services and suchlike? We have a very strong, well-educated, well-trained pharmacy team already in place that can help out in any future development.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I know that the Member is new to the Assembly. Perhaps he was not aware that decisions on pharmacy were made by the previous Minister, a member of his party. That pharmacy decision was challenged by Community Pharmacy NI (CPNI) in April, when it got leave to take a judicial review. When I took up my position, my hands were tied on entering negotiations because there was a judicial review of the decisions made by the previous Minister, who belonged to the Member’s party. There is no point in the Member crying over the spilt milk that his Minister left on the floor. When the judicial review is complete, I will have to pick up the pieces and try to ensure that the damage that has been done does not lead to the consequences that the Member has described.

Pam Lewis (DUP, South Antrim)

I welcome the Minister’s statement and the review of health and social care services. Will additional resources be required to implement the review’s findings?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

With regard to resources and looking at the review findings, it is important that, as we move forward, we identify how we can make things happen with minimal impact on our resources. We will take account of the resources available in the Budget settlement, and there may be capital and other cost implications to enable the services to be significantly reconfigured. That may involve looking to the private sector for assistance, particularly with the capital budget. We do not have enough in our capital budget to carry out the works that are needed in the health service. It is an area that we need to address strongly. I hope that those issues will be identified in the review report so that we are in a position to action some of those works in the very near future.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

In his statement, the Minister mentioned the importance of good intermediate care and rehabilitation and community support. Does he recognise that the close involvement of family and friends plays an important part in people’s recovery and ultimate discharge and that locating rehabilitation units in the community facilitates the involvement of family and friends, thus enabling early discharge? When, therefore, will we have quality health and care centres in Larne and Carrickfergus?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member should note my comments to Ms Lewis. The set budget will not enable us to build such facilities, even though they would form a key part of challenging the current situation, remove the need for such extensive acute care facilities and bring more care to the primary and intermediate sector. That is why I said that we needed to look to the private sector for help in delivering services, such as primary care clinics, thus enabling us to make a real difference to the quality of people’s lives and to the management of conditions that will mean that they avoid having to go into hospital and to ensure that we do things more cost-effectively.

If I may give one example, I had a good conversation with my counterpart in the Republic of Ireland, Dr James Reilly, who indicated that a new diabetes clinic had opened just north of Cork with 1,400 clients. In the past two years, no amputations have taken place. The fact that diabetics are not having amputations is really good news. It means that the condition is being managed better than was the case heretofore. Moreover, that, of course, saves the Government money. Those are the win-wins that we need to see. Nevertheless, we must never lose focus of the fact that, in that equation, quality of care must come first.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I welcome the review. However, given that the panel will report back to him by 30 November, is it not a bit too hasty to close the A&E department in Belfast City Hospital in the same month that the review is ongoing? Should more effort not be made to keep the A&E department going until the review is completed?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Belfast Health and Social Care Trust’s decision to close Belfast City Hospital’s A&E department temporarily was based on safety and quality of care. I cannot interfere in such decisions. When clinicians say that there are safety issues, it is not the role of politicians to interfere. However, if we are to do things right in future, we need to identify and plan the way forward. We need a situation in which we, as public representatives making decisions that affect the people on behalf of the people, give leadership to ensure that conditions are not such that decisions such as the one made at Belfast City Hospital have to be made. It is regrettable that the number of consultants in the Belfast Health and Social Care Trust area is insufficient to man all the trust’s hospitals, thus necessitating the bringing together of two services to ensure the consistent availability of senior staff, so that trauma units are not operated continuously, night after night, by junior doctors. What was happening was not acceptable or satisfactory.

Private Members’ Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has allowed up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer will have 10 minutes in which to propose the motion and 10 minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members wishing to speak will have five minutes.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

I beg to move

That this Assembly recognises the importance of rural businesses to the local economy; and calls on the Executive to increase support for rural businesses and, in particular, to permit them to advertise on public roads and to erect directional signage.

The motion is an issue of major importance to my constituents in East Londonderry, where local businesses in a rural environment are the lifeblood of the economy. Not only do they provide a service, they create jobs. Up to 50% of the population of East Londonderry lives in a wholly rural area or a part-rural, part-urban area. The rural economy is, therefore, central to my constituency.

Although the focus of the motion is on road signage, as is noted in the detail, the issue of supporting rural businesses stretches across a number of Departments. The draft rural White Paper published by the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) identified five key themes as a means of supporting rural communities. The priority of theme 4, “Sustainable Rural Economies”, was:

“To provide rural businesses with appropriate support to ensure the development of dynamic and innovative rural economies”.

Although the majority of that theme focuses on the businesses that are associated with farming and identifies the agrifood sector as a major contributor to the local economy, little or nothing is said about local businesses such as small retail outlets. Those types of businesses employ small numbers but are worth a lot to the local community. Only in small rural towns can we see small locally owned shops remaining intact. That includes bakeries, fruit and vegetable shops and independently owned newsagents. In more urban areas, such shops have been taken over by large corporations.

One little improvement that could be made is road signage, which is important to local rural business owners as it provides directions to customers who might be looking for a specific business or who may be passing by conveniently, resulting in unexpected trade. In my experience, the Planning Service has been and is being far too restrictive in preventing local businesses from erecting signs that simply promote their business in some of the most rural areas of Northern Ireland. As business, especially the retail sector, centres on the capital city of Belfast and major towns, owners of small shops have little or no chance of securing that trade. For them, never mind locals, their business is their lifeblood. Their businesses offer not only a service to the local community but employment, which is important, given the harsh economic conditions that we face.

In Northern Ireland, the agency with prime responsibility for controlling advertisements is the Planning Service. Article 4 of the planning regulations states that no advertisement may be displayed without the consent of the Department of the Environment (DOE). However, consent for signage does not apply to advertisements that have “deemed consent” under planning regulations or to advertisements of particular classes, including those:

“(i) announcing any local event or activity of a religious, educational, cultural, charitable, political, social, or recreational character; or

(ii) relating to any temporary matter in connection with an event of local activity of such character;

not being an event or activity promoted or carried on for commercial purposes.”

Signage for the purpose of providing direction has been described as follows:

“to guide road users to their desired destinations, via the most appropriate route, at the latter stages of their journey, particularly where destinations may be hard to find.”

However, Roads Service deems that road signs for businesses are not to be used as marketing tools. Instead, it insists that directional signs should be used only where they are of benefit to the road user as an aid to navigation or for road safety or traffic management reasons. That presents a major obstacle to local rural businesses. At the moment, the choice between having a road sign and not having a road sign can be a choice between success and failure for many local business owners.

I am in no way suggesting that the regulations be relaxed to such an extent that the countryside becomes littered with signs advertising businesses, but I am suggesting that they be made flexible enough to assist local businesses in the current economic climate. I do not feel that the Planning Service and the Department of the Environment are being helpful in this matter or are taking that economic climate into consideration.

Given that my constituency lies within reach of some of the most picturesque places here in Ulster, tourism is central to its local economy. Therefore, signage is important, as recognised in a document published jointly by Roads Service and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board in April 2004, ‘Tourist Signing in Northern Ireland’, which also contains criteria for signs marking attractions. White-on-brown tourist signs constitute one part of the overall family of directional signs.

The main purpose of tourist signs, as for any directional sign, is to guide visitors to their desired destination. White-on-brown signs are deemed to supplement rather than duplicate information already available. It is recognised that, although there are additional benefits for the beneficiary of the white-on-brown signs, they are there to provide clear benefits to the road user. The benefits of white-on-brown signs are clear, for not only the beneficiary but the tourist.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I agree entirely with the Member. I remember lobbying Roads Service a couple of years ago, through my previous employment, on a brown sign relating to a piece of Ulster-Scots art in the tourist town of Bushmills. We could not get Roads Service to move on that. I think that I wrote to the Member’s constituency colleague Mr Campbell, who was the Minister at the time. We could not get Roads Service to move. It was clearly something that was going to be of benefit to tourists coming to Northern Ireland, particularly tourists from Scotland, Canada and the United States with an Ulster-Scots background, but Roads Service simply refused. I could not understand it.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Member for his intervention. I totally agree with him: it is very hard to get Roads Service to understand the importance of the signs. I trust that the Minister will pass on what is being said today to her Executive colleagues.

I, therefore, ask whether a similar policy can be drafted to benefit local businesses that may not be directly considered to be a tourist attraction but that will provide a service for local tourists visiting the area. Mr Speaker, I will give you an example. The A29 runs from the Minister’s constituency into my constituency and on to the north coast. There is a tea room there called the Duck Pond tea room. I recommend that anybody who is passing go in for a cup of tea and a cupcake. Members know that I would not be interested in a cupcake, but I would have a cup of tea. One day, when the owner had a sign out, Mr Roads Service landed and told the owner that he could not put it out and that he had to bring it in. The consequence of that was that the owner saw his takings reduced to one fifth of what they were on a normal day when he had the sign out. It is important that Roads Service takes action and allows some sort of signage.

I commend the motion to the House and look forward to the debate.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I agree with the Member. For generations, rural businesses have been the backbone of the communities, and they are becoming more and more squeezed out by the global market, and so on. One of the biggest factors in squeezing out rural businesses at the present time is the financial constraints that they face.

The rural development programme was introduced recently. I found that to be a lifeline to small businesses. It allowed existing businesses to expand and new businesses to start up. However, there are two downsides to that. One is the banks. They have still not bought into the whole concept of what is going on — the rejuvenation of the countryside and its communities, which we all see and hear and talk about. The other downside is the Planning Service. I agree with the Member that the Planning Service needs to show a little bit of give and take on signage. That is true. As clearly defined, we have an urban/rural problem here. The problem with signage in urban areas is not as bad as it is in rural areas. Businesses in rural areas are paying the same rates and overheads. Yesterday, we talked here about energy prices. Large amounts of my area have no gas provision. We do not have the choice of gas, regardless of its cost; we have only electricity.

The rural development programme needs to be promoted more. There are two to three years remaining of the programme. The money is there to be put into it, and I do not think that it is being used properly. Part of the Assembly’s brief is to help rural businesses. I ask the Assembly to talk to the banks and allow them to be more flexible. There is a period of six weeks from when an applicant is accepted for the programme until he buys the material, for instance. In that period, the applicant has to arrange a bridging loan and take big money out of the bank. If the banks are not willing to move, we should be looking at other financial institutions that could help those people. The rural development programme assists the farming industry, because it has helped farmers to go into businesses outside farming to supplement their income. However, they also meet planning constraints.

The second element I want to talk about is the Housing Executive. It employs a lot of people, and it has a big say in rural areas. One of its areas of work is its grant schemes; for example, its disability grant scheme. Under that scheme, it can take between one and two years from an application being made to a person being told to start the work, and that is happening year-on-year. If that scheme could be fast-tracked in some way, it would allow more builders in rural areas to get the work and enable them to put more money back into the economy. However, that is not happening at the moment.

The councils, through the economic strategies they roll out in their council areas and their tourism strategies, also have a big role to play. The Tourist Board talks to the councils before tourism strategies come out; they liaise with each other. The councils also have a role to play in regard to signage, which the Member talked about earlier. They can do that, and we should encourage them to do more in that area. The Tourist Board spent almost £750,000 on brown signage along the previous Antrim Coast Road — it is now the Causeway coastal route — which is good for tourism. However, the drivers for tourism are the small businesses such as souvenir shops, cafes, public houses and hotels. We will end up with those businesses being able to operate only during the summer and having to close in the winter, and those communities will die. We are all about rejuvenating communities, but we cannot do that with what we have at the moment.

The catalyst for driving the rural economy is the draft Rural White Paper, which was introduced by the previous Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development, Michelle Gildernew, and which the present Minister, Michelle O’Neill, will hopefully sign off before the end of the year.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member should bring his remarks to a close.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Members, everything that you need is in that document, such as the drivers and the names of the people and organisations. I encourage the Assembly to use the Rural White Paper as the driver for rejuvenating rural areas.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Mr Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to discuss the motion, and, with your permission, I will dwell primarily on its first clause, which is:

“That this Assembly recognises the importance of rural businesses to the local economy;”.

On the issue of signage, I was interested to hear Mr Campbell on ‘Good Morning Ulster’ on BBC Radio Ulster this morning discussing how he felt that signage would be useful to people with maps and satnavs. My satnav directs me to the premises rather than to the sign for the premises, but, given where Mr Campbell is sitting, perhaps he supports inferior brands to me. [Laughter.]

I want to highlight another programme on BBC radio. BBC Radio 4’s ‘The Food Programme’ made, by its own admission, a rare visit to Northern Ireland a few months ago to examine the role of our local food entrepreneurs in boosting the private sector. Indeed, the programme identified Northern Ireland as the leading region of the United Kingdom in that regard. I am happy to say that two of the interviewees were constituents of mine: Martin Hamilton of Mash Direct outside Comber, who is exporting his vegetables to the United States; and Will Taylor of Glastry Farm Ice Cream at Kircubbin, who has exclusive rights to some of London’s top international five-star hotels.

Of course, the rural economy has more to do with the economy than just agriculture, and it is important that, as we try to regrow the private sector, we choose our sectors and do so mindful of the demographics and what they have to offer. Previously in the House, I spoke of the benefit of creating a green economic corridor from Belfast Harbour all the way down the Ards peninsula, based on the fact that Belfast Harbour is investing some £50 million in a new logistics facility for offshore wind. From that, flows the possibility of agglomeration economics with spin-out and spin-off companies being established in rural sites from Belfast Harbour to Portaferry.

In his report to the House earlier on his visit to the United States, the First Minister referred to HBO and its filming of ‘Game of Thrones’ which takes place not only in the Paint Hall Studio in the Titanic Quarter but at four satellite filming venues across Northern Ireland. Clearly, that happens with or without appropriate signage.

I accept that signage is important to the tourism industry. Tourism tends to make its money in the rural economy, with the exceptions of the Titanic Quarter and perhaps the City of Culture, Derry/Londonderry in 2013. I think of the Giant’s Causeway and golf, particularly at Portrush, Newcastle and now Holywood, thanks to Rory McIlroy. There is also St Patrick’s trail and our Ulster-Scots heritage, which need to be well signposted, whether physically or on satnav and associated software programs.

Signage plays a role, but a limited one, in promoting the rural economy. We need to address the generic weaknesses that stem from a lack of critical mass in people and infrastructure. On this morning’s ‘Good Morning Ulster’, we heard a report on the lack of affordable child-minding for people in both urban and rural settings. An enhanced role for the social economy will release the potential of the rural economy to help our economy and people move forward. We often talk of the social economy as the not-for-profit sector. I see it somewhat differently: as something that generates profit, not in pounds and pence, but in individual and community development.

I am very happy to support the motion, although I see the irony of Mr Campbell and Mr McQuillan bringing it forward on a day when one of their colleagues, a Mr Alan Graham, had the most fantastic physical advertisement on his farmland outside Bangor, in the pop icon Rihanna, and yet did not seem to welcome her presence. Perhaps we might rethink and reconsider, moving forward.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Members who tabled the motion. Both represent the same constituency, and we have some understanding of the particular problems that small businesses have there. I am sure that the struggle that small businesses have in East Derry is replicated across the North. I suggest, however, that, although directional signs are useful, the Assembly needs to do a lot more to sustain small businesses, which are frequently described as the lifeblood of the community.

How can we do that? I think we must all have been listening to the radio this morning. I heard the commentary on how schools should change, and particularly on how greater entrepreneurship should be built into the school curriculum. As we go down the path of reforming the education system, that element needs to be addressed. That said, I recognise the work of Young Enterprise and other groups such as The Prince’s Trust, which have been around for a long time. However, those projects are not built into the main curriculum, and they should be.

Mr Speaker, you know that one of the biggest obstacles to setting up your own business is red tape. There is scope for Limavady and Coleraine councils to collaborate to address red tape. I suggest that businesses should be exempt from registration for VAT for their first 12 months. There is much that local councils are doing to support businesses, but it could be done much more strategically and I urge that they take such an approach. In Coleraine and Limavady, small shops are the lifeblood of the local community, and it is ironic that, tomorrow night, there is a public meeting to discuss the problem of rates. Rates bills fall very unfairly on many small businesses that simply cannot afford to meet the demands. In Coleraine, we look forward to the Finance Minister, Mr Sammy Wilson, spelling out how there could be greater help for small businesses that have closed or are at a critical stage where they need help.

Directional signs, yes, but in what direction are we pointing our small businesses? That is key to the future. That is in no way to deride the motion. The motion is very important, and I am grateful that it has been proposed. However, we need to be clear, focused and supportive about where we are going. It is no longer enough simply to be champions who ask for nothing more than a level playing field. Any small business will tell you that everything is stacked in favour of big business. I do not think the future of the small business is a hopeless case, and I hope and pray that we do not get into a situation, as has happened in many towns, villages and rural communities in England, where the small businesses have simply disappeared. Essentially, we are a rural community, and even our larger towns are rural in nature, and we have to put everything we can into those places.

When the debate is carefully analysed by those who have influence, they will take seriously what has been said this morning. I encourage our Ministers to work in partnership a lot more. I remember when the Seagate factory closed in Limavady, our Ministers all arrived independently in their own cars, but that is not how to solve the problem. Our Ministers should sit around the table together in true partnership and encourage special task forces to identify the issues and address them. That should be done in collaboration with the university, the chambers of commerce and our councils, which, I believe, are doing a good job but should be encouraged to do more.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I am afraid that I have been asked to contribute to this debate at very short notice, so forgive me if I ramble a bit.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

As usual.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Yes, as usual.

The motion seems to be aimed at more than one Department. I have listed the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) for tourism, DARD because the Minister is here, the Department for Regional Development (DRD) because of the eternal problem over signs being hung on lamp posts, and DOE because of planning issues. I am not sure which Minister this motion should be aimed at, but we have no problem supporting it. Rural businesses suffer the same problems as non-rural businesses, but more is heaped upon them because of their isolation, their broadband difficulties, which we are going to hear about later, transport costs, which Mr Dallat referred to, rates, lack of support and lack of cohesion.

A particular problem in rural areas is that people cannot even find the business that they are looking for, and that leads to the issue of directional signs. We support the motion as it is phrased, subject to some fairly stiff caveats about the nature, size and type of signage, which leads me to advertising.

We have all seen the proliferation of advertising signs on the wheeled things that people put in fields. Apparently, they are not illegal at the moment, but they are just as unsightly as something that might be placed beside the road. In the past few years, a company in Lisburn — I will not name it but it specialises in wooden floors — has managed to erect signage on just about every conceivable place known to man. Every time you stop your car, you see a sign for the company. The signs are on fences, barriers, roadsides and advertising hoardings. I am sure that some of the signs are illegal and some are not, but that company seems to get away with it. However, my colleague was telling me about a case, presumably in Strangford, of a small fish and chip shop, which decided to advertise when it opened up, and it put up a total of seven signs on lamp posts somewhere in the Strangford constituency —

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

The village of Cloughey.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Kieran.

The DRD demanded that the signs be taken down because they were on lampposts. Also, the Department did not give the shop any warning and fined it £350; £50 for each sign. So, that is a good example of support being given to a small rural business that was trying to establish itself.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Will the Member give way?

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Yes; thankfully.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I am sure that the number of fish and chip shops in a small village such as Cloughey is limited.

There is an example in my constituency where a sign for a guest house in Downpatrick was permitted to be displayed in one direction but not the other. I hope that this is the type of problem that the Members who tabled the motion are trying to deal with; in other words, how we co-ordinate the appropriate use of signage.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an added minute in which to speak.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I note that, in some places around the world, that sort of signage is allowed in a limited way and there are rules that allow two signs within a quarter mile of a business and two more within a mile radius. You hear about that kind of thing happening.

When I go round the country, I see perfectly legitimate signage, mostly for more substantial businesses and churches. I have seen directional road signs, below which there are other signs that read, “Leading to” such and such a premises or church. I have also seen signs that look like low street signs, established for just one business. So, there is scope. However, our concern is that, without any control over the size, colour and position of signs, there will be proliferation of them, which really would not do the image of the countryside any good at all.

The only other thing that I have to say on the matter is that it is ironic that the DRD was so quick to demand that signage advertising a business be taken down — and actually threw in a fine to make its point — when just above the sign there were illegal flags that nobody can take down, evidently, and that nobody will ever be fined over. There is a contrast there.

We are looking for consistency and a set of rules that everyone can understand. We want small rural businesses to have every opportunity to be able to advertise their wares in a legitimate and reasonable way so that people can find their way to the premises. When I have driven along the A5 over the past few years, I have noticed that there are about 200 signs stuck into the grass, some of which advocate a new road and others which advocate against it, and I do not think that they do the area’s image much good. We need consistency and a good set of rules that people can understand.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

Every rural MLA supports the motion. We all understand that rural businesses, like the general economy, are suffering. However, there are things that the Assembly as a whole can do. I think that we are talking about the Executive rather than one particular Minister, because the motion is cross-cutting and takes in, for instance, DARD, the DOE, DETI and, of course, the DRD, and requires a joined-up approach to meet the needs of rural businesses.

One thing that can be done immediately to assist rural businesses is to ensure that every small business in Northern Ireland has an adequate broadband connection. There is no doubt that that is the way forward for many of our businesses. It is amazing how the internet has transformed every aspect of life in Northern Ireland. However, I get constant complaints from small businesses in south Down about the fact that they cannot grow and attract orders. As far as they are concerned, the worldwide web has become the worldwide wait, because they have to sit for ages for orders to come through. So, I think that that is a very practical thing that can be done.

I have also noticed that there is a lack of business park spaces for small businesses in rural areas in my constituency. Companies that wish to establish themselves in large conurbations are very well provided for and get multiple offers to use large warehouses and ready built off-the-peg premises. However, when you go to small villages — we want to encourage people to establish businesses that employ maybe only two or three people — you see that there is a shortage of suitably serviced workspaces for them. That is another very practical thing that could be done.

The issue of signage is difficult. One of Northern Ireland’s greatest assets is, of course, its very attractive countryside. However, if truth be told, we have trashed the countryside in many parts of Northern Ireland. I drove through west Tyrone recently, and I was absolutely appalled.

An area that I knew well 20 or 30 years ago was completely destroyed by inappropriate development and mass proliferation of ugly bungalows and houses on almost every hilltop, which detracts enormously from the quality of that countryside. That is why it is so important to bring in new policies to prevent that from happening. On top of that, there are ghastly signs for rural businesses. The problem is that for 90% of those signs, no form of consent has been given. It is simply the case that businesses feel that it is necessary to put up the largest possible sign. I have seen signs that are probably bigger than the businesses that they advertise.

We understand the problems that local rural businesses have. They want to advertise the availability of their goods and services. We need to consider some form of standardisation of signs in the same way that we tackled the issue for guest houses and bed and breakfast accommodation. There was a demand from those small businesses to advertise their presence for passing trade. However, rather than to allow every business to come up with the most garish and biggest possible sign that it could imagine, we said that that is not the way that we will do it; we will design a standard sign that can be used by all small businesses to advertise their presence. That is what we need to do in order to facilitate the multitude of local small businesses, such as joineries and those that create products using concrete, wood and timber. There needs to be a standard sign that enables those businesses to be found but that does not detract from the countryside.

“Let us kick the planners” seems to be a theme in the Assembly. However, if Planning Service actually got down to it and enforced the removal of every unauthorised sign in Northern Ireland, there would be thousands and thousands of cases. Quite often, I watch the planning schedule going through Down District Council. Once in a blue moon, one sees an application for consent to advertise in a rural area. That is not what happens: businesses simply go ahead and do it. Would it not be better to regulate that and have signs that people can see and appreciate?

To return to those who would kick the planners; most rural businesses in Northern Ireland do not have planning permission. What has happened is that some local entrepreneur has decided that he has a skill in woodturning or with precast concrete, for example, and he has decided to develop that business in a garage or a back shed. The business has grown, and he has been successful. It has continued to expand. Eventually, it is discovered that it has been there for four years and that, therefore, no action can be taken against it. That is not the way to plan rural businesses.

I am glad that the policy that controls businesses in rural communities has been changed recently to be more flexible and permissive. Therefore, there are ways in which people can actually regulate their situation and obtain planning permission. Things are moving forward. The Planning Service is taking strong action on that issue, but, yes, an awful lot still needs to be done. During the current recession, the Assembly must retain support for and nurture small businesses because they are the backbone of the rural community. The Assembly must do all that it can to sustain them.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Member must bring his remarks to a close.

The Business Committee has arranged to meet immediately upon the lunchtime suspension. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm, when the next item of business will be Question Time.

The sitting was suspended at 12.33 pm.

On resuming (Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Molloy] in the Chair) —

Agriculture and Rural Development

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Mr Basil McCrea is not in his place for question 1.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

2. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development whether she will support higher woodland creation targets in the Executive’s Programme for Government. (AQO 398/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I want to see higher targets for woodland creation. Forest Service’s business plan for 2011-12 identifies a target of 200 hectares of new woodland creation, which is realistic and achievable. That reflects the recent uptake of woodland creation grants by landowners and is affordable, given capital budgetary constraints.

If we are to achieve higher targets, we need and I am committed to developing new mechanisms to support woodland creation in recognition that higher levels of planting will be required in future to achieve our long-term aim of increasing woodland cover from 6% to 12% of the entire land area over the next 50 years. This year, I intend to review the operation of the existing scheme and the effectiveness of the strategy and the associated business plan targets.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her answer. It is disappointing. I understand that her officials are proposing lower targets for next year, compared with the targets for the previous three years. Can the Minister confirm that?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I would like to confirm to the Member that I am also disappointed at not being able to reach certain targets. I intend to review the whole process — the grants scheme and everything that is involved — so that we can make sure that we attract as many people as possible into this.

The other key factor that is discouraging some people from getting involved is the whole issue of CAP reform and uncertainty about the type of land that will be eligible under the new system. People are being reserved; they are sitting back and waiting to see the proposals from Europe before they decide to get involved in some of our schemes.

Those are all factors, but, as I said, I want to keep the process under constant review to make sure that the targets that we have are realistic and achievable. We are fully committed to increasing woodland cover from 6% to 12% over that 50-year period. So, it is about making sure that our targets are realistic and achievable.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

Over the past three years, Forest Service has failed to deliver 54% of its target for new woodland creation. Can the Minister detail how she intends to combat that shortfall and improve on our extremely low 6% woodland coverage, which compares poorly with the EU average of 33%?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for her question. I addressed that in my previous answer. I am also disappointed at the targets; we have to keep them under continual review. I have said to Forest Service that, by the end of the year, I want a full review to look at what we have done and where we expect to be so that we can put measures in place.

We have two grants schemes in the Department, and we are looking at a woodland inventory to establish exactly what we have. I do not disagree with you: I am disappointed about the targets, but I will make sure that we move forward in a positive manner and do whatever we can through grant support and grant aid, even for farmers who wish to diversify and plant more trees.

Willie Clarke (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Will the Minister provide details of any plans that she might have to strengthen North/South links in forestry?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am pleased to confirm that Forest Service in the North and Coillte in the South co-operate on many aspects of forestry. In order to formalise and develop those relations still further, a memorandum of understanding between the two organisations was launched on 22 March 2011. That will help to maximise the potential for development of the forestry sector on an all-island basis, including socio-economic benefits, while protecting the environment. Forest Service staff in the North are also in regular contact with their forest service colleagues in the South about forestry plant health matters.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

3. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline the progress made on the decentralisation of her Department’s headquarters. (AQO 399/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I am pleased to confirm that the DARD HQ relocation programme began in earnest in March 2011. A project team established by the DARD permanent secretary as a committee of the departmental board has met on four occasions and agreed a scoping paper which outlines the considerations necessary to progress the programme. That paper covers issues such as policy context, project management, equality screening and human resource issues.

Since taking up post, I have been keen to ensure continued progress in this important programme. I have already agreed a necessary governance structure for the programme, and the formal programme board is now in place to progress and plan the work necessary to ensure that we have successful delivery. The recently appointed programme manager is already working on the development of the strategic outline case, which is a necessary component for a programme of that scale. The programme will be subject to the Executive’s usual requirements in respect of business cases and procurement. In moving forward with the programme, DARD will continue to work closely with all key stakeholders. It is my intention to submit a paper on the DARD HQ relocation programme to Executive colleagues before Christmas.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Will she outline the economic benefits of moving the DARD headquarters out of Belfast?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am delighted to have the opportunity to highlight the economic benefits. The proposed relocation of the headquarters out of the greater Belfast area has its origins, as the Member will know, in the Bain report on the relocation of public sector jobs. As intimated in the Bain report, a move to a rural location will have significant economic and social benefits. Those will be fully articulated in the business case that will be developed and presented to the Executive as part of the relocation project.

It is very clear that the proposed relocation will naturally stimulate the rural economy through increased local spend and the provision of high-quality and well-paid public sector jobs. There are, potentially, also the jobs associated with any construction project that would come about as a result of the relocation. It will also help to share wealth across the economy and contribute to better-balanced economic growth by commencing to address disparities in the distribution of public sector jobs across the North of Ireland. Furthermore, the proposed DARD headquarters relocation represents an important first step to relocate a significant share of public sector jobs and could pave the way for a much larger programme of relocation in the public sector. It would naturally greatly enhance the economic and social development of rural communities and bring a greater realisation of the outcomes envisaged by Bain.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

The Minister will not be surprised when I refer to Loughry in my constituency — indeed, the constituency that we share — which is a good example of an area that would suit and be more than able to facilitate the new headquarters. Will the Minister assure the House and the people of the Cookstown and mid-Ulster area that she will consider that as a potential site?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It would be opportunistic of me to stand up and plump for Mid Ulster, but obviously, as constituency representatives, everybody has an interest. No location has been decided for the DARD HQ. What I will do in line with the Bain report is say that I am clearly committed to making sure the location comes out of the greater Belfast area. The details of the configuration are yet to be determined. Those and many other matters will have to form part of the business case, which I intend to bring to the Executive later this year.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I welcome what the Minister has said so far about office accommodation needs. Will she assure the House that no undue or particular barriers will be put in place by accommodation office officials that might jeopardise provincial towns and office projects beyond the 20-mile radius of Belfast?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am not sure that I understood the question, but I am not interested in disadvantaging anybody. The project is about moving high-quality public sector jobs into a rural community. That is something I am very committed to. The fact that people will be able to access public sector jobs outside the Belfast area can only be an advantage to those who live in rural communities and who, for too long, have had to travel to Belfast to get a job in the first place and even to try to achieve promotion in the Civil Service. We should all welcome this. It will be a positive development, and, hopefully, other Departments will follow suit.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I shall just pursue Mr Boylan’s question, Minister. I am, first of all, very pleased that Strangford and the Ards peninsula are still in the hunt to be the location, should your Department move. However, will you clarify how a move would help you to achieve any PSAs or key targets that you might set yourself under the new Programme for Government?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member is only new to the Assembly, so he may not be aware of the Bain report and other reports that clearly suggest that the Government need to look at the decentralisation of public sector jobs. This very much meets those targets and works towards those aims. [Interruption.]

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Order. The Minister has the Floor.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There is an Executive commitment to decentralise public sector jobs. I hope to take this project forward and to complete it by the end of 2015. We have set aside £13 million in this Budget period, and £13 million will hopefully be achieved in the next Budget period. I will not be deterred from the job at hand. It is a fantastic opportunity to bring public sector jobs into a rural area. There are not too many Members who would not support that measure.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I should have announced that question 6 has been withdrawn and requires a written answer and that question 12 has been transferred to DRD for a written answer. Paul Girvan is not in his place to ask question 4.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

5. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development, in light of the decision to freeze tuition fees, what action can be taken to assist students who want to study veterinary medicine as there are currently no courses available locally. (AQO 401/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. My Department and the agrifood sector have a clear and ongoing need for trained veterinary professionals. Recently, I met representatives of the North of Ireland Veterinary Association and the British Veterinary Association and listened to their concerns about the consequences of high tuition fees for students who wish to study veterinary medicine. It is an issue, of course, that affects more than veterinary students. I have considerable personal sympathy with the challenges that future students will face.

I acknowledge that there are no veterinary medicine courses available locally, but they are available in Dublin and at seven universities in Britain. Institutions in Britain that charge higher fees will offer bursaries to students from low-income backgrounds as part of their access arrangements. Students from the North will also be able to avail themselves of the means-tested support arrangements offered by DEL if they are from lower-income households. I understand that no tuition fees are chargeable to those who wish to study in Dublin, although there is a registration fee, which is reimbursed by DEL.

I have already relayed the concerns expressed to me by the professional veterinary bodies to the Minister for Employment and Learning, and I intend to meet him to seek an assurance that he will keep the issue under review. In the meantime, I have reviewed the supply of veterinary professionals locally and am satisfied that there is no current or emerging risk.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Obviously, this issue is a bit of an anomaly resulting from the very welcome decision that the Executive took on tuition fees. I am pleased to learn that there are courses available on the island and that there is no additional charge for people travelling down to Dublin from the North.

Involvement in the veterinary industry is a matter of supply and demand. Will the Minister give an assessment of the supply of veterinary professionals locally?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. DARD’s primary interest is in the availability of veterinary professionals to meet the requirements of the local agrifood industry and DARD. You will appreciate that there is an important distinction between that requirement and the much wider issue of enabling students from the North to attend veterinary courses or any other courses in Britain.

The availability of veterinary surgeons and other trends in the veterinary profession is regularly surveyed by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, which publishes the reports on its website. The most recent survey does not indicate any impending shortfall in the number of veterinary surgeons, nor has the Department identified any such difficulties in the North. Furthermore, research on forecasting future skills needs in the North that was undertaken by DEL in 2009 shows that the supply of veterinary science graduates is projected to meet the indicative graduate requirement until 2020. Supply will meet the projected demand.

There is no evidence of an immediate or foreseeable risk to the supply of veterinary professionals in the North of Ireland. The royal college’s regular monitoring of the position will provide an early warning if any such risk emerges. There is no departmental requirement for DARD to pursue specific actions at this stage. Indeed, that could be counterproductive. However, I will continue to keep the position under review. I will continue to work closely with the royal college and to ensure that we are fit for purpose and can meet our targets.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Has the Minister looked at her budget in respect of the freeze in tuition fees? Where will the shortfall in her budget be made up from? Will she remind the House exactly how much DARD has lost?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his question. As the scrutiny Committee is involved in scrutinising the DARD budget, I am sure that the Member is aware that it is very difficult for all Departments. We have to meet particular challenges, but we are trying to meet our efficiency savings through back room costs and other things that do not impact our farmers directly. I can provide a more detailed breakdown if the Member needs it.

We in DARD have to look at the issue of tuition fees. Our tuition fees are different because our colleges are different. We were delighted that we did not have to increase charges in this Budget period except by the current inflation rate. That is the position for the 2011-12 period, and, given the budgetary discussions, we will keep that under review over the next year.

Another issue that has been raised is that of students coming from Britain and elsewhere and whether they would displace some of our students. We will have to review that situation because the displacement of any of our local students would not be in anyone’s interest.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the Minister’s engagement with local veterinary associations to discuss this matter. Can she give the House an estimate of the potential learner uptake if veterinary medicine courses were offered locally? Does she have figures detailing the number of people from Northern Ireland who have travelled to other parts of the UK to study veterinary science over, say, the past five years?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I do not have those figures in my briefing today, but I am happy to provide them. The veterinary associations with which I have been speaking have told me that quite a number of students travel every year. We are meeting our supply and demand needs for veterinary surgeons. I am meeting those associations again over the next months and will raise that issue with them. There do not seem to be any problems at this stage, but I am happy to provide the Member with details of the number of students who travel to Britain or elsewhere to achieve their veterinary qualifications.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Question 6 has been withdrawn.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

7. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development whether she will carry out a review of the DARD Direct project before any decisions on new departmental headquarters are taken. (AQO 403/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The relocation of the DARD headquarters is a separate issue and is not dependent on a review of the DARD Direct project. The relocation programme will follow the required approval and appraisal processes, as I outlined in answer to an earlier question, and any potential impact on the DARD Direct project or any DARD Direct office will be considered as part of the overarching business case.

The DARD Direct programme is concerned with delivering our services more efficiently to farm businesses. A business case for this programme was completed in 2008 and was followed by an EQIA public consultation in 2009. To date, DARD Direct has been rolled out to seven locations: Enniskillen, Coleraine, Downpatrick, Dungannon, Magherafelt, Mallusk and Newry. That leaves five locations to be taken forward over the next 18 months. We will complete a post-project evaluation (PPE) once that has been achieved.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am grateful to the Minister for her reply, but would it not have been better to carry out a review of DARD Direct, if that is the model that she would like to pursue, to examine whether the delivery of DARD services through that model could be improved, rather than spending so many millions on relocating?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am sure that the Member is aware that none of the DARD Direct offices would be big enough to house all the departmental staff. For a project of the size of the DARD relocation, we have to follow the Executive’s procedures for business cases, approvals and appraisals, so the decision on what arrangements would best meet the needs of any future DARD headquarters need to be considered in the round.

The DARD Direct offices do a fantastic job in the locations that I mentioned. I have had the opportunity to visit some of those offices. They are a one-stop shop for farmers, who have told me about the advantages, and I do not want to take anything away from that. You mentioned a review of DARD Direct even though it was established only in 2008. I hope to have the list of areas that I have outlined completed in the next 18 months. I am happy to keep everything under review; we can always improve and do things better. You can learn only from experience and time. I hope that answers the Member’s question.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Deputy Speaker, I am glad that you saw me at the third time of asking.

The Minister outlined the issue of five outstanding offices under DARD Direct and said it would be around 18 months before the deal was complete. Does she foresee the fifth of the five offices outstanding not being completed until 18 months hence, or will it be completed before then?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My intention is that the five areas that I have outlined will be completed in the next 18 months. Some of the problems to date have been around getting premises and negotiations with landlords. Officials are working at that constantly, and we are trying to bring those forward as quickly as possible because we can see the benefits that are being afforded to farmers in all the different areas. A number of issues have to be ironed out. If it is done in six months, that will be fantastic, but I am setting a target that they should all be completed within 18 months.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Before I call the next Member to ask a question, I will explain to Mr Campbell that I called two members of his party. It is tradition that we do not call two members of the same party on a particular question, but we did call two members of the same party for that question. No one was ignored.

Michelle Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s answer, but I also observe that the question is like comparing spuds with apples. The DARD Direct project is a great project and has been very successful where we have had it, but it is hugely important that we get moving on the departmental headquarters. Minister, do you know when the move out of Belfast is likely to be?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We have a proposed completion date of 2015-16, so we hope, now that we have the project team established, that everything is moving forward. I have to continuously push that matter forward, because it is my intention to officially open the office somewhere in a rural community by 2015-16.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

8. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline the criteria that the Drainage Council and Rivers Agency use to designate rivers for maintenance. (AQO 404/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Designation is required to enable the Department to undertake maintenance and schemes for drainage and flood defence purposes at public expense. Criteria for the designation of watercourses are used objectively by the Drainage Council to ensure uniform treatment across the North. There are two key overriding conditions: first, that the proposed works offer value for money, with benefits outweighing the costs; and, secondly, that the works have sufficient priority to be included in the Rivers Agency’s programme.

There are five additional criteria beneath the two overriding conditions, with an application for designation needing to satisfy one or more of the following: first, that there is sufficient area of disadvantaged agricultural land that is subject to poor drainage or flooding; secondly, that works to reduce existing or potential flooding are outside the capability of the riparians to organise and carry out at their own expense; thirdly, where works are required but it is not possible to identify the occupier; fourthly, where the watercourse requires works, but it does not perform any function connected with the drainage of riparian land; and, lastly, that works are required to provide an outfall for increased run-off from new housing and commercial development.

In summary, designation will be made only for drainage and flood defence purposes where value for money can be demonstrated and works have sufficient priority to be included in the Rivers Agency programme, given the competing priorities that we have for any available funding.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for her answer. It is useful to get some of that information, especially on the criteria. There is a river in my constituency, and local residents are being subjected to smells, trees are overgrown, and there are vermin coming out of the river. Nobody wants to take ownership of it. Should ownership not be part of the criteria? Is any liaison being undertaken by other Departments and the Rivers Agency so that we can talk to someone without being pushed from pillar to post and from one agency to another?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Thanks for that question. I have every sympathy for the residents, and I have dealt with similar cases in my constituency, where people have experienced problems such as those that you have outlined. It is important to stress that the work of the Rivers Agency and the determinations of the Drainage Council are concerned solely with drainage and flood defence issues. The Rivers Agency has no power over any issues other than flooding or drainage. Where a watercourse is designated and maintenance works are subsequently undertaken at public expense, it will only be because of drainage and flood defence risks.

The work that the Rivers Agency does with other Departments is normally limited to the environmental impact of the potential designation that we are looking at. That is the focus of any cross-departmental work that we do in that field.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I am particularly interested in the liaison between agencies, which was mentioned in the previous supplementary question. However, when it comes to the maintenance of rivers, is the Department taking proper notice of the river rights of fishermen who, in many cases, have spent large sums of money on a river and are not consulted before maintenance? Is the Department taking proper cognisance and talking to those fishermen before undertaking maintenance work?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My Department is responsible for fisheries, and it works closely with DCAL, which has ultimate responsibility for inland fisheries. We are always mindful of the rights of fishermen. If there are particular problems of which you are aware, I will be happy to take those on board and deal with them through my Department or through DCAL.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

Given that we are facing projected 100-year flood level figures, does the Minister feel that the criteria need to be reviewed? When were the criteria last reviewed, and does she feel that there is merit in initiating a review?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his question. As I said, I am always happy to keep everything under review. I do not have the information to hand about the date of the most recent review, but I am happy to provide it to the Member in writing after Question Time.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Does the Minister have any plans to review the legislation governing the Drainage Council and the Rivers Agency?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Drainage Council is always under review, given that it is an unelected body. At the moment, I do not intend to review that legislation, but, if that situation changes, I will be happy to let the Member know.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

9. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline what her Department can do to address rural poverty. (AQO 405/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I am delighted to answer the question, because addressing rural poverty is a key departmental priority. Some £16 million has been allocated to addressing poverty and social exclusion in rural areas in the current Budget period. My officials are developing measures to tackle rural poverty and are engaging with stakeholders and other Departments to bring forward initiatives that will help those suffering rural poverty and social isolation.

Some of those measures will build on the successful rural poverty work undertaken by my predecessor, Michelle Gildernew, on access to benefits and services, rural transport and support services to vulnerable groups in rural communities such as elderly people and isolated young people. Those initiatives are having a positive impact on our rural communities, and I hope to build on that in the new term. Through the maximising access to services and benefits and grants for rural dwellers projects, 4,135 vulnerable rural households were visited, and 10,900 referrals to various Departments and agencies for further support were identified. Those actions will directly help those in poverty to secure a better standard of living.

By collaborating with the Department for Social Development (DSD) and NIE, my Department has been able to target fuel poverty. Around 1,000 homes in rural areas have received home energy efficiency measures such as insulation and new central heating systems. I am also keen to address social isolation, which goes hand in hand with poverty. The assisted rural travel scheme has supported almost 150,000 trips made by elderly or disabled people through the rural community transport partnerships. That has had a real impact on targeting social isolation among the most vulnerable in our society. Without that, some people would never get out of the house unless they have someone to call on them, which, obviously, is not the case for everyone.

Nonetheless, addressing poverty goes beyond that £16 million package. Although my Department cannot single-handedly solve all the challenges facing our rural communities, we must ensure that we target our limited resources to produce the maximum benefit. The EU rural development programme and the annual single farm payments also make a significant contribution to the rural economy and help to address the many challenges facing people in rural communities.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Minister’s time is up.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her detailed answer. [Laughter.] What is the timetable for delivering rural poverty action?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I will be brief this time. We are reviewing all the anti-poverty measures that my predecessor introduced in the previous term. We are having a number of pre-consultation events, because we want to look at and build on our successes and achievements to date and the new initiatives that we can bring forward.

Culture, Arts and Leisure

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

1. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure whether she intends to support the newly established Northern Ireland Confucius Institute in its aim to develop Chinese language, particularly within primary and post-primary schools. (AQO 411/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure’s primary responsibility for languages relates to the North’s indigenous minority languages, which are Irish and Ulster Scots. I recognise the work of the Confucius Institute and its aim to develop the Chinese language, but my Department has no remit in respect of the protection and promotion of that language.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her response. Considering the importance of the Chinese language as an essential global and business skill, will the Minister encourage the teaching of the Chinese language as a priority language in our schools and colleges? Of course, that includes the idea that you cannot understand the language without understanding the culture.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his response. I cannot impose anything on the Department of Education or the Department for Employment and Learning. There is a misconception that the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) is responsible for every language. I recognise the work of the institute in Coleraine. Other Departments have implemented diversity measures, but all that I can do is take on board what the Member has said. I cannot give a commitment to prioritise the Chinese language.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I call Mr Gregory Campbell.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

There he is.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I will come to that afterwards.

I am sure that the Minister is aware of the recent visit to the House by people forwarding the Confucius Institute. They were very well received by a number of us, including the deputy First Minister, junior Ministers and others. Will she co-ordinate with the Department for Employment and Learning to ensure that, when the institute gets up and running properly, particularly at the Coleraine campus, the maximum usage possible from Northern Ireland goes across to China to benefit students here as well as overseas?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am happy to meet Mr Farry to talk about that, but I will not give a guarantee at this stage about co-ordinating that initiative. I am happy to play my part in development, but, other than that, I cannot give any commitments.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I congratulate the University of Ulster on establishing the Confucius Institute, which is really a worldwide network across something like 55 countries. Will the Minister consider using the opportunities from the institute to have artistic and cultural exchanges with China? Teaching Chinese is not the only purpose of the institute.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I appreciate that. That is where DCAL can benefit from the experience of the institute. I received presentations yesterday from NICEM and ArtsEkta, and they spoke about celebrating our diversity and all cultures. This is an opportunity for DCAL to learn lessons from people who have done that so well.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

Minister, given the Executive’s desire to put the economy at the centre of the Programme for Government and the consequent need for cross-cutting measures, will you adopt the Confucius Institute as a departmental flagship and afford it the same support as you are providing to the Líofa project?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

It is actually pronounced “Leefa”, but I cannot — [Interruption.]

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Order.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I genuinely appreciate your attempt. I cannot give the institute priority at this stage, but I understand the Executive’s commitment to supporting and growing the economy. The institute has a valuable role to play in that regard, and, in turn, we have a valuable experience to learn from the institute.

Where we can join up work, we should do so. At this stage, I am not sure and I cannot give a commitment about exactly what role my Depart­ment will have. I will certainly ask about that.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Questions 6 and 9 have been withdrawn and require written answers.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

2. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to outline preparations for the 2013 World Police and Fire Games. (AQO 412/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The World Police and Fire Games will be the biggest sporting event ever hosted in Belfast. It will attract in the region of 10,000 competitors supported by at least 15,000 family members and friends from approximately 60 countries. It is estimated that the economic benefit to the North will be in the region of £15·5 million, but that is a fairly conservative estimate that does not take into account that visitors will return to the North. Additionally, the games will bring the benefit of having a positive impact on sport; create a good and strong image of here internationally; boost tourism; enhance social cohesion, and create a legacy effect. Above all else, the games will promote the reputation of the Police Service, the Prison Service and the Fire and Rescue Service at home and abroad.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. At the games in New York this year, there were more than 90 events, ranging from track and field to beach volleyball.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

Which one are you interested in?

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

They do not do it in fields, apparently.

Minister, bearing in mind that, year on year, each country that has hosted the games has attempted to improve on the facilities of the country that held the games previously, are you confident that Northern Ireland has the appropriate high standard of sporting facilities to deliver more than 90 sports? Given the superb facilities at New York this year, can she guarantee that Northern Ireland will have state-of-the-art facilities for the games?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Hopefully, a final decision on which facilities and venues will be used will be made in the autumn, and we will then look at what we can do and how we can broaden that out. Not every country had a team competing in every discipline. Although I do not think that many beach volleyball teams will be competing — but they may — I am happy to say that our beaches have received better approval in the media than has been the case previously. I am also confident that, although the games are being held in Belfast, the World Police and Fire Games board is using every opportunity to examine facilities across the North. In conjunction with the services, the board will be looking to see where else we can maximise opportunities.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

Is the Minister aware of any concerns among the relevant stakeholders as regards the 2013 World Police and Fire Games delivery body, which was set up by her Department? Given that that body and its chief executive are crucial to the success of the games, does she have confidence in them to deliver the games?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Member is right to say that that is crucial, and I am not aware of any concerns about the World Police and Fire Games board. I am happy to speak to the Member if she wishes to share any concerns with me. Thus far, I have confidence in the chief executive, but I would welcome any Member bringing any concerns regarding that to my attention. If there are issues that need to be resolved, I would like to do so as soon as possible.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will other parts of the North benefit from the World Police and Fire Games, which are to be hosted in Belfast?