Northern Ireland Assembly, 6 February 2012

356 contributions from 70 members. The official report.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Rt Hon Peter Robinson has sought leave to make a statement on the sixtieth anniversary of the accession of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to the throne, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. I will call Mr Robinson to speak for up to three minutes on the matter. I will then call other Members, as agreed with the party Whips. Those Members will also have up to three minutes in which to speak. As Members know, there will be no opportunity for interventions, questions or a vote on the matter. I certainly will not take points of order until the matter is dealt with. If that is clear, let us proceed.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

You will know, Mr Speaker, that so often the matter of the day deals with the latest bad news or some crisis. I am delighted, therefore, that, today, it celebrates accession day. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II succeeded to the throne on 6 February 1952, and today marks a significant anniversary: the diamond jubilee of her accession to the throne. The sixtieth anniversary celebrates yet another remarkable milestone in her reign.

The Queen’s public life has spanned the careers of 12 Prime Ministers in the United Kingdom, 140 Prime Ministers in the Commonwealth realms, of which she is head of state and — bringing it more to home — six Prime Ministers, three First Ministers, three deputy First Ministers and 17 Secretaries of State in Northern Ireland.

I know that, in Northern Ireland, there are different traditions, outlooks and, indeed, different perspectives on royalty. However, I am convinced that everyone in Northern Ireland will respect the significant role played by Her Majesty The Queen over such a long period of time and recognise her many achievements, and, I am sure, for people in this House, not least her recent visit to the Republic of Ireland and the sealing of better relationships between our two countries.

Her Majesty is head of the Commonwealth of Nations, which comprises 54 states. That accounts for 2·1 billion people, which is about one third of the world’s population. She has brought a wise head to difficult situations. Her experience gained during such a long tenure allows her to give sound counsel to those who have audiences with her.

A massive contribution has been made to society by Her Majesty, with countless visits around the kingdom as well as foreign travel. She has a tiring and unrelenting schedule. Then, there are the innumerable official duties of receiving delegations, attending meetings of the Privy Council and other bodies as well as attending to the business of the 600 organisations of which she is patron. Only the limitation of time causes me to abridge the service performed by Her Majesty to her people.

As important of course is the love, respect and devotion her subjects have for their monarch. Just look at the faces of the thousands who line the streets and fill the town centres wherever she goes. It would be remiss to not also mention the signal service performed by the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip, who has been at her side all these years.

Of course, for us in Northern Ireland, Her Majesty performs the important task of giving Royal Assent to all the legislation that we pass. We very much welcome her visits here. We look forward to her visiting Northern Ireland as part of her programme this year.

On behalf of the people of Northern Ireland, we send our warmest greetings to Her Majesty. We salute her for the duties that she has performed on behalf of the realm and again say, on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland: long may she reign over us.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I welcome the opportunity to congratulate the Queen on reaching 60 years as Queen of the United Kingdom and the Common­wealth. I welcome the anniversary wholeheartedly because, as the First Minister indicated, the Queen has been a subject of a United Kingdom and Commonwealth that we all should be proud of and be proud to look up to and respect.

The Queen’s visit to the Republic of Ireland last year signified throughout the world new relationships between two nations that are so close geographically but maybe so far apart in other ways. I welcome that visit, which may encourage the Republic of Ireland to look at the possibility of rejoining the Commonwealth. It would be helpful if that happened. I also look forward to the Queen visiting Northern Ireland — this part of the United Kingdom — sometime later this year. She will be made most welcome by the citizens of Northern Ireland.

On 6 February, my family always had a double celebration, because my mother and father got married on that date in 1952 — the day of accession. Quite clearly, it was a date that always held precious memories for our family, and we always had a debate as to which event on that date was the most important.

Obviously, I wish the Queen and her family well for the future. I hope she has many more years to live and enjoy the respect for her in this community.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I am glad to rise on behalf of myself and the SDLP on this day, the sixtieth anniversary, the diamond jubilee, of the Queen’s accession to the throne. Who else in public life has enjoyed as much longevity as she has? On my own behalf, and on behalf of my party and the non-violent republican tradition I represent, I acknowledge and respect the achievement of Queen Elizabeth II and acknowledge and respect all those in this House and across the country who value her monarchy.

As the House knows, my political tradition aspires to and works for a slightly different constitutional relationship, different from the union with Britain. However, my non-violent republican tradition also aspires to and works for a republican model of Government. My political tradition acknowledges and understands that a large number of people in Northern Ireland value the link with Britain, value the monarchy and value the contribution of Queen Elizabeth II. We not only acknowledge that but fully respect it.

I hold to my aspirations and tradition, but we all must recognise that our view of ourselves and others and of our future changes with time, and I hope and believe that that is for the better. For me, the visit of Queen Elizabeth II to Dublin last year and her work and that of President McAleese was another important step forward in the process of reconciliation and a process of a better and deeper understanding going forward between all the peoples of these islands.

I congratulate Her Majesty, and I wish her well on her diamond jubilee.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

On behalf of my colleagues here and in the wider party, I am very happy to also join in offering congratulations to Her Majesty on this diamond jubilee. There was talk in this place, not so long ago, about somebody else who did 60 years in a particular job and who served in this House. However, the example that the Queen has set, the way in which she has led the country and the Commonwealth for 60 years, is a remarkable example of public service and one that is widely respected.

We have seen huge change and turmoil in politics in every aspect of public life over those 60 years. Yet for most people in the United Kingdom she has been regarded as the key symbol of the unity of the country and a focus for that positive, warm feeling. Despite what politicians may do, she has remained a rock of stability in that respect.

She has also been that sort of figure of unity on a significantly wider stage than just within the United Kingdom. Others talked of her role within the Commonwealth. There is no doubt that a free association of countries, recognising her role as having changed away from the concept of empire to one in which she is seen as a force for leadership in a way that spans so many differences, will resonate with us. As others mentioned, that was shown for us here most strongly on her visit to Ireland last year. The symbolism of the wreath-laying in the Garden of Remembrance and at Islandbridge, the speech that she made in Dublin Castle and then her personal engagement with the people of Cork all showed a very different relationship between the people of the United Kingdom and the people of Ireland, between the people of this island, North and South.

The Queen has demonstrated a very strong commitment to building that reconciliation and for assisting us in this place on that journey that we are engaged on. Indeed, I believe she has given us a very strong lead. So, although I certainly wish to pay tribute to the two former Irish Presidents, Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese, in that part, today in particular we should recognise the contribution that the Queen has made to that reconciliation, and we should commit ourselves to following the lead that she has set.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Across the Commonwealth today this is a momentous occasion when we celebrate the accession of Her Majesty to the throne. On behalf of my constituents, I am delighted to join in that celebration and in the passing of good wishes to her.

The 6 February 1952 undoubtedly had its dark side in that it marked the passing of King George VI. In his daughter, however, there blossomed a monarch who throughout times of great change — in the past 60 years we have seen immense change in the Commonwealth and across the world — has demonstrated a steady touch and steady hand, through which many and all of us have benefited.

So it is right and proper that the Assembly should pause to mark that momentous occasion. The question now is: does it end here? What part do the devolved Assembly and the devolved institutions in the United Kingdom now play in the upcoming months of celebration of the diamond jubilee? Will it be a fulsome, magnanimous part or will its part be spoiled by churlish, vindictive republican veto? Perhaps, the stony and churlish silence from the Sinn Féin Benches this morning indicates what is to come.

It is, however, a challenge to the Executive, on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland, to play a fulsome part and to ensure that, unlike in respect of the royal wedding last year, there will be a gift on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland to mark the occasion and that there will be funding for communities to celebrate the diamond jubilee. I have in my hand a reply from the Culture Minister, who says that she plans to make no extra funding available to communities. Will we see the children of our Province afforded the tradition of a memento to mark that special occasion? I trust that we will. Will we see in the Assembly the return of royal symbols that have been removed —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Once again, the Member is stepping outside what the matter of the day is all about. I will move on.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me the opportunity to add my voice to the congratulations to Her Majesty on this momentous occasion. In 2002, it was my great honour and privilege to be delegated by the Assembly to attend Her Majesty’s golden jubilee celebrations in London as a delegate of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. It was a truly momentous occasion, which was attended by delegates from the vast majority of Commonwealth countries. I daresay that the sixtieth anniversary will be even more momentous.

It is deeply regrettable that not everyone could join in the congratulations. However, those who did not got it wrong when Her Majesty visited the Republic of Ireland. Today, they got it wrong again.

Her Majesty continues to epitomise dedication, commitment, integrity and respect, as she has always done. She has reigned throughout all our lives. May she be long spared to continue to reign.

David McNarry (Independent, Strangford)

On a day like today, one is reminded of the words, “God save our gracious Queen”. Basically, that is what the nation says today: God save our gracious Queen. There is little that I can add to the kind words that have been said about a quite remarkable lady. She is a mother and a grandmother, who has known her own difficulties in her own family life and come through them. When the nation needed it, and should it ever need it in the future, she has shown that she is its Queen; she represents all of us, lives with all the things that we live with, and understands.

As has been said, it is regrettable that the House cannot share in the proposal that has been put so ably by the First Minister. Are we moving on? Perhaps, when the opportunity arrives for Her gracious Majesty to visit Northern Ireland, which is part of her kingdom, we will have seen changes from what we have seen today.

We can only welcome today as a nation. I feel extremely proud that no one can take the nation away from my beliefs, which I know are the beliefs of most people. Therefore, I am extremely glad to be associated with the debate. Thank you very much for calling me, Mr Speaker.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I beg to move

That Standing Orders 10(2) to 10(4) be suspended for 6 February 2012.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Before I put the Question, I remind Members that this motion requires cross-community support.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved (with cross-community support):

That Standing Orders 10(2) to 10(4) be suspended for 6 February 2012.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As the motion has been agreed, today’s sitting may go beyond 7.00 pm, if required.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As with similar motions, the motion on Committee membership will be treated as a business motion. Therefore, there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mrs Sandra Overend replace Mr Mike Nesbitt as a member of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment; that Mr Fra McCann replace Mrs Sandra Overend as a member of the Committee for Employment and Learning; and that Mr David McNarry replace Mr Michael Copeland as a member of the Committee for Regional Development. — [Mr McCallister.]

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement on speeding up justice. Since taking up the post of Justice Minister some 22 months ago, I have repeatedly stressed that one of my priorities is tackling delay in our criminal justice system. I committed to driving forward a programme of work, through the Criminal Justice Board, to speed up justice. The delivery of a faster justice system is a core part of my vision for building a fairer, more just and safer community.

As Members will know, delay has a very harmful impact on the cause of justice. Perhaps worst of all, it prolongs the sometimes traumatic ordeal of a criminal trial for victims. It also wastes the system’s resources and reduces the confidence of the community in the criminal justice system. That is why I remain determined to streamline our justice processes and to strip out wasteful and unnecessary delay. This is a complex and difficult issue, representing a challenge of considerable scale. It requires bold thinking, ambitious reforms and, crucially, a long-term commitment to seeing them through.

Since my election, I have been working with senior leaders across the justice system to improve performance. I have been impressed by the hard work of the justice agencies to deliver this improvement, and I want to pay tribute to the strenuous efforts that they have made. Indeed, in what has been the first phase of our shared endeavours, important advances have been made, including the introduction of a streamlined file for low-level criminal cases; new guidance on building prosecution files; and central teams to provide pre-charge advice. We now have an out-of-hours phone line providing prosecutorial advice to the police; a gatekeeper service to scrutinise all files prior to submission to the prosecution service; and the development of four multiagency regional performance improvement partnerships.

While some improvement in performance has been made, and I am confident that the second phase of our work, now underway, will bring further improvements, I am disappointed that we are not yet achieving the step change that is necessary to deliver the kind of justice system that the people of Northern Ireland deserve. The plain fact is that we need to do more and go further if we want to tackle delay.

Last month, Dr Michael Maguire, the Chief Inspector of Criminal Justice, published his follow-up review of delay in our system. His assessment was that justice agencies had made great efforts but had not achieved the necessary improvements in performance. Worryingly, in some areas, performance had deteriorated. Dr Maguire concluded that more radical reform is required and that I should introduce statutory time limits. I have considered that recommendation very carefully. I did so in the context of the independent reviews of youth justice and the prison service, which reached similar conclusions about the need for statutory time limits.

The wide-ranging agenda of reform that I am pursuing across the justice system requires a willingness to take new approaches. In relation to speeding up the justice system, I have made clear that I am committed to considering other options if current measures do not achieve the step change required.

Having examined the issues closely and taken advice from a number of quarters, I have concluded that the time is now right for the introduction of statutory time limits. Therefore, today, I announce to the House my intention to introduce statutory time limits within the lifetime of this Assembly. In line with the recommendations that were made by the youth justice review, Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI) and others, it is my intention that the new time limits will, in the first instance, be applied to the youth court.

As a first step, I have asked the Criminal Justice Board to consider in detail how such time limits could work in Northern Ireland. I will make a further announcement about the results of that work in due course. Although the details remain to be agreed, in essence, the time limits would give the justice system a fixed amount of time to progress a criminal case and would specify penalties for failing to meet them.

I am clear that a crucial part of the Criminal Justice Board’s considerations must be how we safeguard the interests of victims in any framework of time limits. I state categorically that statutory time limits are to be a measure that makes victims’ experiences and perceptions of the justice system better, not worse. I will not introduce a system without proper safeguards to ensure that outcome. I am also mindful of concerns that time limits should not be applied in respect of the most serious charges. I have asked the Criminal Justice Board to pay particular attention to those concerns.

Members can be assured that any proposals that I bring forward will be the subject of widespread consultation, including with the wider public and the Assembly. In particular, I will continue to work with the Justice Committee, which has shown considerable interest in the issue of delay. I am very grateful to Committee members for those efforts, which have included scrutinising the Department’s progress reports every six months. I will ensure that the Committee is given sufficient opportunity to examine any proposals that we bring forward. I will consider the application of time limits to adults at a future date, but I think that it is right that we initially focus on young people. Delays in such cases are particularly troubling and can be highly damaging to a young person’s chances of rehabilitation. Indeed, there is consensus across all of the reports that I have received on this matter that the priority should be youth cases.

The introduction of time limits is a significant departure for Northern Ireland, and I am well aware of the huge impact that the change will have. Put simply, however, big problems require big solutions. I am now convinced that time limits are the best way to ensure a strong focus right across the justice agencies on the timely delivery of justice.

Statutory time limits alone will not solve the problem of delay. Time limits will be a catalyst for change, but we still need to bring forward a bold programme of reform to meet the challenge that time limits will set. That is what I committed to at the outset of my time as Justice Minister, and I reaffirm that commitment to the House today.

I referred earlier in the statement to the second phase of our programme to speed up justice, which will help to prepare the system for the time limits that will be set in due course. That phase focuses on the underlying causes of delay through more fundamental and systemic reforms. Last month, I launched consultations on measures to encourage earlier guilty pleas and to reform committal. Earlier guilty pleas have the potential to speed up processing times, to spare victims the ordeal of preparing for a trial and facing the defendant in court, and to reduce the burden on scarce justice resources. I also propose to remove the right to call and cross-examine witnesses during committal. That can result in a terrible experience for victims; it is right that we are bringing forward proposals to remove it. I also seek views on other ways in which we might reform committal, such as the direct transfer of indictable cases to Crown Court.

Looking ahead, I am reviewing how criminal cases are initiated, with a particular focus on improving performance in summons cases. The Department is also looking at how we can make greater use of video link technology. Although I will examine any proposals for speeding up justice, there is no quick fix. The solution to the problem of delay is a long-term commitment to reshaping our justice system through bold and innovative reform. Statutory time limits have a role to play in achieving that by setting a robust framework for change and ensuring that the whole system is focused on speedier justice. The scale of the task is clear, and it will be challenging to deliver. However, it is a challenge that we must be willing to meet if we are to deliver a fairer, faster justice system.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement.

In one sense, I am disappointed that this state­ment has had to be made, because I think it is an indictment of the justice agencies that the introduction of statutory time limits is necessary. One would have thought that they would, at all times, seek to exercise their functions effectively and speedily. The fact that statutory time limits are necessary to do that is something in which I am disappointed, but I share the Minister’s frustration that they are necessary.

Will the Minister outline the proposed timescale for the statutory time limits? Will 120 days be the statutory time limit to deal with cases coming through the youth courts?

The statement also touched on the issue of early guilty pleas, and I welcome the consultation that is taking place on that. Has the Minister looked at the Scottish proposals for reform of the legal aid system, which resulted in a dramatically larger number of early guilty pleas being brought forward? Is he considering a review of sentencing to take into account when a guilty plea is entered in the various stages of proceedings through the courts?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I certainly share the Committee Chair’s disappointment at the need for this measure, but what is absolutely clear is that the efforts that have been made over the last couple of years have not fully addressed the problem in the way that we had hoped they would. I can assure the Committee Chair, however, that we will discuss in great detail with the Committee the precise time limits that might be put in place. However, at this stage, I have asked the Criminal Justice Board to do the preparatory work on which we will engage with the Committee to ensure that we get the best possible take and the best possible arrangements for Northern Ireland.

The Member also highlighted the issue of early guilty pleas. I assure him that some of the changes that are already in place regarding legal aid in Northern Ireland already assist in discouraging multiple adjournments. I welcome the fact that I was recently told by some lay magistrates of a district judge in the youth court who, when asked by a solicitor for an adjournment, instead of saying what might customarily have been, “You can have four weeks”, looked at his watch and gave the solicitor a time that afternoon. So a lot of work has been going on around that issue. Statutory time limits are designed to underpin that. There is no doubt that, as we look at sentencing review, the issue of exactly what remission of sentence may be granted for an early guilty plea is one that is being engaged with solidly.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas ar maidin. I thank the Minister for his statement. He referred to Dr Michael Maguire’s report, and we see the need for the type of initiative which the Minister has taken. Indeed, it is worrying that, in spite of the efforts of the justice agencies, Dr Maguire is still critical of aspects of the speed of justice. With that in mind, will the Minister give us a timeline for when the Criminal Justice Board will conclude its initial findings and bring them before the Committee so that we do not have undue delay in its work?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I also thank the Deputy Committee Chair for that welcome. There will be a lot of engagement in the Committee, and having two people on my side to start with is always useful. It is not possible to say at this stage when the board will be in a position to report to me so that I can engage with the Committee. We hope that it will be in the middle part of this year, and we seek to go into public consultation later this year. A number of technical issues must be worked through in some detail, and I would welcome the assistance of the Committee as we go through that work.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Minister, last time you spoke to the Assembly on this matter, you indicated that you were not convinced that statutory time limits (STLs) were a good idea. I think that that was because you thought that the system was not fit for purpose. Will you tell us what you think has changed since then and why you now recommend statutory time limits?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

There is always one who breaks with unanimity, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The simple position is that, at an early stage, as we were seeing work done by the Criminal Justice Board and the different agencies, it was not clear to me that statutory time limits were appropriate and relevant. It is now clear, on the basis of a number of reports that have been received — most notably the CJINI report of last month and reports on prisons and youth justice and others — that there is a general perception that the good work that has been done is not yet enough.

I acknowledge that I did not accept the arguments previously, but I now accept that there is a strong case for statutory time limits. We have also had the opportunity to look at experiences in other jurisdictions. The assistant chief constable for crime operations recently returned to the PSNI after a few years in Scotland, where he had the experience of implementing time limits. His experience enabled us to look at some of the practicalities of how they worked elsewhere. That underpins the general belief across the criminal justice agencies that the time is now right to look towards the introduction of statutory time limits, at least in youth courts, within the current mandate.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. The SDLP welcomes the Minister’s conclusion that there should be time limits and believes that their introduction will add a business and administrative discipline to the criminal justice system and to criminal proceedings at large.

The Minister said that, in keeping with the findings of the report on the youth justice system, he will introduce time limits there first. Will the Minister outline when that might start and when he might begin to introduce time limits into the higher levels of the justice system?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Maginness for two points that go to the heart of the issue. I said that I hope that statutory time limits will be in operation in the youth court within the lifetime of this Assembly. The reality is that the agencies need at least a couple of years to prepare for their introduction. However, on the basis of discussions that have taken place in the Criminal Justice Board, that work is under way.

We need to examine whether the legislative provisions in the 2003 Order are adequate for our needs in this case, or whether we will need to introduce further legislation. That is where the timescale becomes a little difficult. I certainly think that there is a case for saying that STLs will be introduced in the youth court before they are applied in the adult courts. If there is legislation to be made, we will ensure that it covers both courts in a way that could be commenced at different dates. I suspect that it will be an issue for the Minister of Justice in the next mandate to look at the experience of how time limits have been applied in the youth court to determine how they might be applied in adult courts.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Minister, I also welcome your announce­ment today. Wisely, the time limits have been announced to give the various organisations in the justice system sufficient time to make the necessary preparations. I am particularly pleased that you said that, in the first instance, time limits will be applied, where appropriate, in the youth justice system and youth courts.

Minister, will you explain to the House what will happen next? Who will have responsibility for taking this forward? What do you perceive to be the necessary preparations?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank my colleague for that positive endorsement. The specific issue of — [Interruption.] His endorsement makes it merely a four-party agreement so far.

Given the Member’s background in youth work, I know that he will appreciate what I appreciate from my background in social work, which is that we need to ensure that we deal with young people who are on the edge of getting into trouble in a way that deters them from doing so and does not leave them in limbo, waiting for the court system to move slowly before things can happen. That also needs to be done in a way that ensures that the victims of the kind of crime that young people are involved in see an early clear up of their case.

The Member specifically asked what will happen next. The Criminal Justice Board is chaired by the Department and brings together all the relevant agencies, most notably the Police Service, the Public Prosecution Service, the Youth Justice Agency and the Probation Board. It will engage in a programme of work to identify the issues that need to be resolved in individual agencies and on a cross-agency basis. Indeed, it has already started that work. The board will work with my staff to determine whether new regulations or primary legislation are needed. On the basis of that work, I will engage with the Committee for Justice, and, if necessary, I will report to the Assembly at the earliest possible time. I hope that that will be in the middle part of this calendar year.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am sure that everyone agrees that we need more timely justice. However, I ask the Minister to deal with the central concern about statutory time limits — what happens when cases reach their statutory time limits? What assurances can the Minister give to the House and to the wider public that no criminals will walk free as a result of a statutory time limit being reached, resulting in their being let off on a technicality?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Weir raises a perfectly reasonable matter of concern, which is the “what if?” question. All I can say is that, from the information that came back to us from the assistant chief constable (ACC), from the Scottish experience, it is clear that although, in some cases, people who have committed relatively trivial offences walk free because the system does not work in time, the key issue around statutory time limits is that they are an incentive to ensure that Departments and different agencies do their work within an appropriate time. The Scottish experience is that people do not walk free. That is why, unfortunately, it is taking time to get the measure introduced. We need to take time, rather than try something hasty that may, perhaps, create a set of circumstances that would give rise to the concerns being expressed not just by Peter Weir but by virtually everyone in the House.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. Can the Minister assure the House that, in the process of speeding up justice and the incentive to early guilty pleas, the proposed measure will not disadvantage the most vulnerable?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I see no reason why it would disadvantage the most vulnerable. Those who are, in many senses, most vulnerable are the victims, rather than the perpetrators, of crime. I am determined that statutory time limits will allow victims to see cases being dealt with in a speedy and efficient way. The initiatives that we are proposing around early guilty pleas will enable people to gain some credit for making a plea of guilt at an early stage and, in many cases, spare witnesses and victims the trauma of having to appear in court, or even the trauma of having to think that they might have to appear in court. In that regard, both measures would assist the most vulnerable.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

The Minister will hardly be surprised to know that some of us are quite uneasy about this proposal and that we envisage clever barristers and solicitors manipulating the system to make certain that their clients’ cases exceed the time limit so that they get off scot-free. He did not give the honourable Member for North Down the assurance that no one would get off as a result of this change. Has he considered some form of financial penalty for those who have been involved in such cases, so that if they do not get a case to court in time, they will lose a significant portion of their fee? That might concentrate a few minds and stop such incidents happening. There are those in the House who remain extremely uneasy about the Minister’s proposal.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I did say in the statement, and I will repeat the assurance to Mr Wells, that we will need to take considerable care over the issue of more serious crimes. There is no proposal, at this stage, to move to statutory time limits at the most serious end of the spectrum. I am slightly disappointed by the Member’s position on the issue of penalties and of clever solicitors and barristers. I seem to remember, if nothing else, that, on one occasion when I was with the Justice Committee last year, he highlighted the good work that was being done by the Department of Justice in ensuring that clever solicitors and barristers did not twist the system to get away with excessive amounts of legal aid payments. Indeed, he was very supportive of that work being done by the Department, and I look forward to his support as we ensure that similar good work is done on this proposal.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

As my colleague said earlier, there seems to have been a dramatic change of mind about the statutory time limits. Will the Minister detail how that change of mind came about?

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

He is on the road to Damascus.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

It is a Damascus-road conversion.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am not sure that it was the Damascus road, as the hecklers from both sides of the Chamber are saying. It was a simple issue of considering the fact that the system had not improved over the nearly two years that I have been in post and considering the evidence concerning the way in which statutory time limits work in other jurisdictions. I am not sure that expressing a degree of scepticism about something in the absence of evidence and then getting the evidence and accepting the proposal amounts to a Damascus road conversion. It seems to me to be sound evidence-based policymaking by Departments of the kind that I would expect the Assembly to support.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I, too, welcome the Minister’s statement, because we need to tackle delays in the justice system.

It is of paramount importance to protect the victims, but, given that the measure will be used for young people who find themselves in front of the courts for low-level crime and minor offences, can the Minister tell us how he will ensure that their rights are protected? Somebody might be brought through the courts on a first offence, and you really do not want that to impact on the rest of their life.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I agree with the point that Ms McCann is making. Ensuring that young people are in court at the earliest possible point consistent with a fair trial protects their interests and stops them from spiralling into further trouble before the offence is dealt with. There are real dangers that, if there are delays in the youth court, some young people will embark on a pattern of crime because the initial offences have not been properly addressed. That is one way in which we will help to keep young people out of crime by addressing their early offending properly. It is an issue where we will need to look at how exactly that works in respect of which crimes are taken into account, but, fundamentally, the point that is being made is central to the Department’s thinking.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I declare an interest as a member of the Policing Board and, indeed, as a member of the selection panel that appointed ACC George Hamilton, who seems to be personally responsible for the change of policy in Northern Ireland. How can the Minister justify coming to the House only a matter of months ago and saying that this seemed to him to be a very dangerous proposal to put forward at that stage and, with full credit to ACC Hamilton, be able to come to the House today celebrating the unanimity in which, it seems, he was the discordant chord in the first place?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am sure that Mr Maginness will manage to educate Mr McDevitt on that particular point later. I thought that I had made it quite clear that the simple point is that, when you consider the evidence, you make policy in line with the evidence. That was not the situation some months ago; it is now the situation in which I find myself, and I have no problem whatsoever with the concept of the Department of Justice and its Minister making policy on the basis of sound evidence.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I also thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, the statement refers to Dr Maguire’s latest progress report, and, apart from what you are proposing in your statement, do you intend to take any further action to tackle what Dr Maguire identifies as a deterioration in performance?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I appreciate the point that Mr Anderson is making. We are looking at improving performance in a significant number of areas, and the point of statutory time limits is to underpin that. It is too long to read out, but I can give the Committee a list of a number of issues that are under way, including around case preparation, general governance, case management when issues get into the system and the reform of committals that I talked about. A number of different issues are running together. The policy on statutory time limits is not the solution; it is underpinning the work that is being done in many other areas.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I welcome the fact that, at long last, the Minister acknowledges that big problems exist in the system. He also acknowledges that performance has deteriorated, and, to say the least, it is quite an achievement to get this Minister to that stage. Whether that was via a U-turn or some other sort of a turn is not that important at the moment. When the Minister speaks about speedier justice, I trust that he is talking about speedier justice for victims.

Furthermore, the upsurge in terrorist attacks and activity, which take precedence with Forensic Science Northern Ireland (FSNI), has relegated other crimes, such as burglary, further down the list. Thousands of cases are waiting to be processed, which brings the court system nearly to breaking point. Bearing that in mind, does the Minister intend to provide any further resources for FSNI to ease the backlog and speed up non-terrorist cases to allow victims speedier access to justice without, of course, hampering investigations into terrorist attacks?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I really am ever so slightly baffled by the suggestion that “at long last” I have acknowledged the problem. I cannot remember the number of times that I have spoken in the House or to the Committee about the problem that we have with the speed of justice. How we address that was an issue to be tested by specific evidence, but to suggest that I did not acknowledge that there was a need for reform, when I have been talking about reform and speeding up the justice system almost since the day that I took office, is utter rubbish.

Lord Morrow spoke about speedier justice for victims. I am not sure whether he was in the Chamber while I made my statement, because I referred several times to ensuring that the justice system works in the interests of victims. He talked about hundreds of cases held up by the forensic science lab —

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thousands, I said.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Sorry, I stand corrected: he talked about “thousands” of cases. The last count that I got was that there were four cases in which there was an issue involving the Public Prosecution Service and the speed of cases being processed through the lab. So, a few facts would help.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for coming to the House to make the statement. To follow on from the previous question, I welcome the Minister’s reassurances regarding victims, and God knows that we have had enough victims in Northern Ireland over the years. The Minister made it clear that victims’ interests will be paramount as statutory time limits are introduced. He also referred to his plan to remove the right to call and cross-examine witnesses during committal proceedings. Where does that proposal sit, as of today?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I confirm that the reforming of the committal processes is currently out for consultation; sorry, put more accurately, it is being prepared for consultation. There are serious issues as to how we ensure that victims are not put through the peril of having to twice go to court — for committal proceedings and to give evidence in the substantive trial. There are real issues as to whether we should be looking further into removing the normal committal process altogether, as is the case in other jurisdictions. We need to ensure that those on trial receive a fair trial and that victims are not put through the perils of what almost amounts to double jeopardy for them, if not for those on trial.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

So far as it is necessary to do so, I declare that I am a member of the Northern Ireland Bar.

I suggest to the Minister that his announcements today are wholly ill-advised because statutory time limits will inevitably result in people who should face trial — however small the number of cases may be debatable — not facing trial due to the expiry of the time limit. It will be an incentive to feet-drag. He can take it from me that it is not beyond the ingenuity of the defence to participate in feet-dragging. That incentive will exist, and the outcome will be that some people who should face justice will not face justice. When the Minister has to face the wrath of the House for some significant case that falls by the wayside—

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Will the Member come to his question, please?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

— perhaps some of those who cheered him on today will also reflect on the folly of that.

I also suggest that it is utter folly —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Sorry, I must ask the Member to come to his question.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I also suggest to him that it is ill-advised to abolish preliminary investigations, which act as a filter in respect of weak cases, because to do so will result in cases continuing to trial and inevitable acquittal rather than saving money and time by having such cases filtered out at preliminary investigation stage.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I ask the Minister to respond.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. On preliminary investigations, Mr Allister, like everybody else, will have his opportunity to comment in the consultation. I thought that I had made it quite clear that we were being careful as to what level of offences would be covered, so the suggestion of “significant cases” falling “by the wayside” is ill-founded. I suspect that in the face of the advice that I have received and the experience noted in other jurisdictions, to suggest that this proposal is “wholly ill-advised” is contrary to the facts.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

That concludes questions to the Minister of Justice on his statement.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I call the Minister of Finance and Personnel, Mr Sammy Wilson, to move the Further Consideration Stage of the Rates (Amendment) Bill.

Moved. — [Mr Wilson (The Minister of Finance and Personnel).]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Members will have a copy of the Marshalled List of amendments detailing the order for consideration. The amendments have been grouped for debate in the provisional grouping of amendments selected list. There will be one debate on the single group of two amendments, which amend the definition of retail purposes. Once the debate is completed, the second amendment in the group will be moved formally and the Question will be put without further debate. If that is clear, we shall proceed.

We have now come to the single group of amendments for debate. With amendment No 1, it will be convenient to debate amendment No 2. The amendments impact on the definition of retail purposes.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I beg to move amendment No 1: In page 3, line 42, leave out “on or from the hereditament” and insert:

“to members of the public who visit the hereditament”.

The following amendment stood on the Marshalled List:

No 2: In clause 3, page 5, line 37, leave out “on or from the hereditament” and insert:

“to members of the public who visit the hereditament”. — [Mr Wilson (The Minister of Finance and Personnel).]

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Amendment No 1 makes a minor technical amendment to the provision dealing with the one-year concession that will provide a 50% rebate to the first occupiers of long-term empty properties in 2012-13. I will also speak to amendment No 2, which makes a similar consequential amendment to clause 3 for consistency purposes.

Before looking at the detail of the amendments, I wish to briefly touch on some of the issues that were raised during the last debate that are related to the amendments. As Members will recall, the main provision in clause 2 is intended to encourage business ratepayers to occupy empty premises, creating new jobs and investment opportunities in local communities. It will also make our core retail areas more vibrant where those may have become run down as a result of high levels of vacancies. As Members are aware, the purpose is simply to encourage those properties to be occupied and get them back into use. That will apply where the property was previously used for the retail sale of goods and the retail provision of services.

During last week’s debate, I gave examples of the types of empty property that that would typically apply to, and which we can find on our high streets. That includes long-term empty clothes shops, food stores, newsagents, corner shops, hairdressers, beauty salons and opticians, among others. A number of those have a mix of the sale of goods and the provision of services.

Members will wish to note that the Departmental Solicitor’s Office has confirmed what I told the Assembly last week: eligible properties could also include those providing professional services, such as solicitors, accountants and estate agents — all businesses that typically operate out of shop-type premises or premises above shops. Although those may not be what Members would typically consider to be retail services, it is important to remember that those types of retail services are commonly provided in the main streets of our towns across Northern Ireland.

The changes were broadly supported across the Chamber, particularly where they would serve to breathe life back into our core shopping areas, whether in or out of town. On that point, the Member for North Antrim correctly pointed out that the measure would not simply apply to our high streets and town centres, which I readily accepted. However, I believe that those are the areas that will benefit most from the changes provided for in clause 2.

As I flagged up during our earlier debate, I believe that the Executive and Assembly are being forward-thinking in relation to the measure. The measures in the Bill are a serious attempt by the Executive and the Assembly to actively try to breathe life into our core shopping areas. Nowhere else in the United Kingdom has introduced a scheme like that. I think that it is something to be proud of, as we take action to bring long-term empty retail properties back into use.

During the debate last week, I listened carefully to what Members had to say, not only to those comments in support of the change but to concerns that were raised. I was particularly interested in the comments made by the Member for North Antrim Mr Allister. During Consideration Stage, I made it clear that I do not judge amendments to legislation or proposals that are made on where they come from or who makes them. Both my Department and I listened carefully to the issues raised during Consideration Stage. As I set out in the last debate, there is the issue of general office accommodation where there are no transactions or interface with the public.

The amendments clarify the definition in the Bill of retail, trade and services, and establish beyond reasonable doubt that there must be a public-facing front to the sale of goods or provision of services from those premises. That does not change the scope of the measure and is entirely consistent with what I told the Assembly last week during Consideration Stage; it purely clarifies the kinds of premises that will be covered. It is, however, a reaction to a useful debate that took place on this particular measure.

The intention is that the measure will apply only to properties providing retail services to members of the public. The amendment will make it clear that there has to be an interface with the public. I do not want to create a situation where suites of offices in office blocks move about to get a 50% rebate on their rates. That is only one example.

The provision will apply to properties that offer retail provision of goods or services to members of the public who visit that property. Members must appreciate that we are trying to draw a reasonable balance between encouraging the occupation of empty commercial premises and ensuring that we do not create a dodgers’ charter by making the scope of the concessions so wide as to encourage businesses to move about. The revised amendment is crafted to make it clear that the public needs to visit the premises. The policy was always intended for that type of premises.

The amendment will also prevent relief being awarded to those properties that are simply used for e-commerce distribution. Those sorts of properties are of a different character to the empty retail premises that we are trying to get back into business. Members will note that the amendment to clause 3 is simply intended to provide consistency between it and clause 2, as they deal with similar areas.

Finally, as I have made clear in all the debates, this is a new policy. It is untried in the rest of the UK. In light of that, and in order to ensure that the measure does not result in either abuse or unintended displacement of business activity, it is being applied for only one year. I want to see how the measure works and ensure that there are no unintended loopholes that people will use to take advantage of the rating system in ways that we had not anticipated. Should widespread abuse occur, and unscrupulous people start to play the system, I will not be slow in coming back to the House during the year to deal with that by making regulations to close any loopholes.

I thank Members from all sides of the House for the contributions that were made during the debate last week. I hope that the amendments that I have tabled today deal with some of the issues that were raised, and I, therefore, ask for Members’ support.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

I support the two amendments tabled by the Minister. I appreciate that issues caused concern in the debate last week, and I hope that what is presented today will go some way towards ensuring that those comments were taken on board. I feel that it does. I appreciate this opportunity to deal with businesses that are interfacing with the public, which is one of the points that were raised. Offices can and do exist that never have a member of the public darken their door and that do not sell services, so that issue has been dealt with through the added wording in clauses 2 and 3:

“members of the public who visit”.

I support the Minister’s amendments. I feel that this initiative will go a long way towards giving some confidence back to the community that the Committee and the Assembly are acting on the concerns that have been brought to us.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I am pleased to support the Further Consideration Stage of the Bill, proceeding, as it is, by way of accelerated passage. Of course, the difficulty with accelerated passage is that everything is done in a hurry. I regret that the House did not support the amendments tabled last week by the Member for North Antrim, because I thought that they had merit. I hope that that does not come back to bite us. The Minister assured us today that he will not hesitate to come back to the House if there are any unintended outcomes, and I am pleased to hear him say that.

The two amendments provide clarification, which is to be welcomed, and improve the Bill accordingly. Therefore, I am happy to support the Bill as amended.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I support the amendments and welcome the clarity that they bring to the Bill about there needing to be an interface with the public for the benefits of the measure to be gained. I also welcome the Minister’s pledge to monitor the operation of the measure and his willingness to deal with any issues that may arise from the operation of the measure in a speedy and effective manner. Therefore, without further ado, I support the amendments.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I will follow on from what other Members said in supporting the amendments, given that they are mainly technical in nature. I also welcome the Minister’s commitment that he will keep the matter under close review so that there are no unintended outcomes.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I will pick up on a point of Mr Cree’s about the speedy nature of the accelerated process, which I spoke about previously in the House. One might expect that you would need to go down that route when events overtake you, but I have discovered to my surprise that as long ago as 1 June 2011, the Minister wrote to the Committee for Finance and Personnel to say that he would be going for the accelerated process for the legislation that was to be with the Assembly by last autumn. Of course, we know that it did not come last autumn. It did not come until this year, and then we had the accelerated process. Maybe if we had not had the accelerated process, we would have had a better opportunity —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order, please. I ask the Member to address the amendments. I have allowed him to make his point, but he should now focus on what we are discussing, which are the amendments.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

In relation to the amendments, I have to confess that I remain very sceptical that retail services, as defined, will ultimately be held to include facilities such as solicitors’ offices, which the Minister asserts that it will. Maybe it will never be tested, but, in the end, we will see whether my scepticism has any basis in fact or whether the Minister’s confidence is totally justified.

I would like the Minister to elucidate for us whether he is now saying that the use to which premises are put during the rebate period must meet his new definition of retail services. If so, on what basis is he saying that, given the construction of the Bill? During the period for which a rebate is being given, does there have to be an interface with the public in respect of that use? Or is it the case that the interface had to exist historically in the use of the building, and historically it had to be used for retail goods or services as now defined but that the current qualifying use of the building can be anything at all, subject only to the restraints, retrospective or otherwise, of planning laws?

If it is the latter, what does the amendment achieve in delivering what is said to be the ambition of the Bill, namely, re-energising our town centres with vibrant new businesses? Is it the situation that you can, in effect, put into what historically was a vibrant business one that does not interface with the public? If it is, how far do the clause and the amendment advance us? Would it not have been better to amend the Bill so that the concurrent use, not the historic use, was the one that was subject to the new identification of retail services? Perhaps the Minister could clarify where we stand on that because that seems to me to be the touchstone for attaining the goal of the Bill through clauses 2 and 3.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Members who have taken part in this short debate on the Further Consideration Stage of the Rates (Amendment) Bill. I thank those who have given support to the Bill and to the technical amendments.

At least a couple of Members wandered off the main subject, which was the amendments. I trust, Mr Deputy Speaker, that, since they got to make their point, you will indulge me by allowing me to at least respond to them.

Mr Cree talked about the Bill’s being rushed, and he said that he was sorry that, as a result, we did not have enough time to discuss some of the amendments. Indeed, he expressed sorrow that the amendments that the Member for North Antrim tabled last week were not accepted. However, he and his party colleagues may, of course, have had some part in that, because, as far as I can remember, they did not vote for the amendments. So, it is one thing to say that he is disappointed that I did not accept the amendments; it is another thing that he did not accept them himself.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

Will the Minister give way?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I will give way in a minute or two. I am glad that he was so convinced by my arguments that, despite his sorrow that the amendments were not accepted, he voted with me.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister on one of his usual tirades, but he obviously does not listen to me. I did voice my protest and supported the amendments that the Member for North Antrim proposed last week.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Believe you me, this is not a tirade —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. It certainly will not be a tirade; it is now ended.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I could show him a tirade, Mr Deputy Speaker, if he wanted one. I was simply making the point that he had the opportunity to vote in favour of Mr Allister’s amendments last week. He chose not to, and I take it that that was because the arguments that I put forward were superior and that he, therefore, felt that he could safely support me.

Mr Allister talked about the accelerated passage process and said that we did not have the opportunity to debate the issues as fully as we should have. As far as I can remember, there was no time limit last week when we were discussing the amendments, and there was no limit on how long individual Members could speak for or on the number of Members who could speak. The debate could have gone on all day if we had wanted it to. That did not happen, and given that we did not require an elongated debate, I think that that was supportive of my view that there was plenty of time and opportunity to discuss the issues that had to be discussed.

The Member is right. There was a timetable for the consultation, the responses to the consultation, the work that the Committee indicated that it wanted to do and getting the legislation drafted. I think that I expressed to the Committee at an early stage that I was going to request that the Bill proceed by accelerated passage.

As the Committee was given early notice, it was able to carry out its own quite extensive investigation and produce a report. Many of the recommendations contained in that report were accepted before the Bill was finally crafted.

The Member spoke about the amendment that I moved today and questioned whether it will fulfil its intended purpose. During the debate last week, he asked me to go back to the Departmental Solicitor’s Office to find out whether the definition that I had given and the businesses that we covered in the legislation were going to be covered. The information from the Departmental Solicitor’s Office was that the description and the explanation that I gave in the House last week were correct. If one looks at the description, which is very clear now, the businesses that would not be covered by the legislation — I will come to his second point in a minute — are those where people are required to present themselves to the business. That was not originally in the definition. We have included it now so that we are absolutely specific about it. I thank him for the fact that, in the exchanges that we had last week, he helped me on that. He also helped the House to understand that there may well be a gap. Therefore, let us ensure that it is honed. I hope that helping to craft legislation from the hated DUP/Sinn Féin regime here at Stormont does not get him in trouble with his supporters, but I am glad to see that he is playing a constructive role. I appreciate the fact that he has done that.

He also asked whether the definition applies only to the previous use of businesses, not the future use of businesses. In the debate last week, I made it clear that that was the case. I accepted that in some way that may appear to be an anomaly, but I also explained the reason for it. We did not want the definition to include premises that are currently used, for example, as call centres, corporate lawyers’ officers and that kind of thing, where the public are not coming to; premises possibly in the same block, owned by the same landlord with the floor above empty, and where the landlord encourages the firm to move upstairs so that it can get a 50% rebate and he can get a 50% rebate because the premises that were previously occupied are now unoccupied. Since there was quite a lot of money involved here — up to £160,000, and there are probably a number of office blocks across Northern Ireland that would fall into that category — we wanted to avoid such situations. I have no doubt that people will look for gaps to see how they can avoid paying taxes, and that was the reason for it.

I accept that we will not control future use, and it will not be limited. The reasons that I gave him were that this was a one-year measure and that the process of checking up where people would contest whether they did or did not fall inside the definition would be a lengthy and expensive process. For that reason, we decided not to look at what use the premises might be put to. I have not hidden that from the House. However, I have assured the House today that where abuses are identified over the year, we will quickly come back with regulations. This is not to be a dodgers’ charter; this is to be a piece of legislation that seeks to inject some life back into high streets and town centres across Northern Ireland.

Mr Deputy Speaker, I trust that that deals with some of the points that Members have raised. I recommend the amendments to the House, and trust that Members will give them their support and have no regrets for giving support to them after they have done so.

Amendment No 1 agreed to.

Clause 3 (Window displays not to constitute occupation in certain cases)

Amendment No 2 made: In page 5, line 37, leave out “on or from the hereditament” and insert “to members of the public who visit the hereditament”. — [Mr Wilson (The Minister of Finance and Personnel).]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

That concludes the Further Consideration Stage of the Rates (Amendment) Bill. The Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose the motion and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members wishing to speak will have five minutes.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I beg to move

That this Assembly calls on the Minister for Employment and Learning, in conjunction with his Executive colleagues, to expedite the finalisation and implementation of an effective and cross-departmental strategy for young people not in education, employment, or training (NEETs) and the ongoing review of education maintenance allowance (EMA), in order to address the issues of record levels of youth unemployment and increasing disengagement with mainstream education; and to make the necessary improvements to ensure that EMA is targeted at those in greatest need.

The future of the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) and its Committee is, of course, subject to consultation. However, regardless of what particular format or arrangements are arrived at, and regardless of where the people on my Committee may go, the issues that we are dealing with will remain, and this House will have to deal with them. The Committee felt that it was timely, in the period that we have left to us, to bring those matters to the House so that they can be debated properly and fully.

I wish to talk, in particular, about the issue of NEETs, and the result of what was a very comprehensive study by the previous Committee. I have to say that NEETs is not the most attractive of words, but that appears to be what we have settled on. It is probably better than the alternative, which is, I understand, zeros. This is an issue that we really have to deal with in the Assembly.

These important issues affect young people in every Member’s constituency in increasing numbers as the level of youth unemployment reaches record levels. One in five of our young people is unemployed, and it is getting worse. The economic cost of youth unemployment in Northern Ireland alone is somewhere in the region of £250 million. Some of our young people have seen emigration as their only option, while others have further disengaged not only from education or training but from society as a whole. Employment without skills or training is not an option for them. This and other factors prompted the previous Committee to undertake an inquiry into the NEETs issue, the purpose of which was the development of a strategy for those young people. It focused on who they were, the reasons why they were in that category, and how best they could be helped and supported. Members of that Committee were regularly presented with evidence that the NEET group was continuing to grow — a situation that continues to this day, given the ongoing economic downturn. Even when the economy begins to recover, the situation is unlikely to improve in the short to medium term.

In its NEETs inquiry report, the previous Committee considered the benefits of the education maintenance allowance (EMA) incentive for young people to remain in full-time education. The Committee recommended:

“the criteria for receiving EMA should to be focused more on those to whom it provides a particularly significant incentive to re-engage”.

It is worth saying that the EMA scheme was introduced jointly by DEL and the Department of Education (DE) in September 2004, its main purpose being to enable young people from lower-income backgrounds to remain in post-compulsory education at school or college. Its key objectives are to raise participation, retention and achievement rates in the eligible groups.

In 2004-05, the participation level in post-16 education was 78% in Northern Ireland compared with a level of just 67% in England. Northern Ireland’s participation level later rose by nine percentage points to 87%, while England’s rose by 15 percentage points to 82%. Although many Members will know the details of EMA and that it is being considered for review, the costs may not be so well recognised. EMA costs approximately £26 million a year, with 60% of recipients in the schools sector, administered by the Department of Education, and 40% in further education colleges, allocated by DEL. Amid increasing concerns about the efficacy of the allowance, a decision was taken by the two Departments in 2010 to have a formal review of the scheme. To date, and I am speaking in February 2012, that review has produced no conclusions. That is the point of the debate, and I am grateful that the Minister is here for it. We have talked long and hard, but we have delivered next to nothing. We cannot countenance that.

There is a further type of non-means-tested education maintenance allowance available to young people, and it is paid at the rate of £40 a week to those who are engaged in recognised training activities. This is the only scheme of its kind in the United Kingdom, and it allows young people on it to access both EMA and social security benefits while training for future employment. Under the legislation, which dates from 1950, the payment is limited to participants in the Department’s Training for Success programme. It cannot be paid to young people engaged in pre-vocational training in schemes such as Give and Take, which is organised by Include Youth. I have to say to the Minister that members of Include Youth will be watching intently to see how the Assembly deals with the issue. It seems to me to be a complete travesty that those young people cannot get the support that they so badly need. The whole idea of EMA is to encourage and support those from the most vulnerable and disadvantaged parts of our society. Given that we cannot do that, the Minister ought to do his best to deal with the issue while he is still in post.

The Committee believes that the Department must seek to target means-tested and non-means-tested education maintenance allowance at the areas in which it will be most effective. That must surely mean young people not in education, employment or training. The Committee heard how the Scottish Government have already carried out a complete reform of their EMA scheme. Although the allowances continue to be means-tested, the scheme now includes additional flexibility in the entitlement for vulnerable students, including those who are homeless or in care. The Scottish model focuses on non-formal learning as the most appropriate method for vulnerable young people to continue to develop their skills and to progress towards formal learning and qualifications.

With the support of the Executive, DEL officials have had a dialogue with a number of other relevant Departments in order to start work on a NEETs strategy. A stakeholder forum was also established and feeds into the strategy being developed by Departments. However, during a recent briefing session by the Department, my Committee was disappointed to learn that not only has the strategy not been finalised but the relevant research has not been completed. Minister, that is too little, too late; it is taking too long, and we risk appearing to be too lackadaisical. We have to deal with this issue. At this time, it is vital that the House gives time and space to understanding why the issue of NEETs and EMA must be addressed as an urgent priority.

I commend the motion to the House and seek Members’ support in calling on the Minister to join in ensuring that his Executive colleagues support the finalisation and implementation of an effective and cross-departmental strategy for young people not in education, employment or training and that the ongoing review of education maintenance allowance is expedited as soon as possible.

In the couple of minutes remaining to me, I wish to speak just as a Member of the House. When I engage with young people, through VOYPIC, Include Youth or any of the other opportunities that I have had — discos, get-togethers and all sorts of things — what strikes me most is that they are not merely statistics. When you look at statistics, you come up with all sorts of plans, but the young people are dehumanised. When you talk to young people, you cannot help but be impressed. When you hear of some of the issues that they have had to overcome and the challenges in their lives, you just wonder how they make it at all. They are great young people, and they deserve our support.

Minister, my colleague Sandra Overend, who will no doubt deal with the matter in her speech, mentioned that money was coming as part of the Barnett consequentials from the Youth Contract highlighted in the United Kingdom. Your bid should be for all of that money, not just some of it.

There is no greater challenge for the Assembly than to prepare our young people for their future life. We must not be complacent. The issues that we are dealing with are life-changing; on many occasions, they are, in fact, life-threatening. I say to all Members that young people are society’s most vulnerable, and they are people whom we can help. This is a good thing to do, and I urge the entire House to support the motion.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I also welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue. As the Chairman of the Committee said, we could probably bandy statistics around the Chamber all day, and, truthfully, it would not achieve very much unless we try to grasp the human cost of the issue.

If you bear with me, I will read a letter that I received from a constituent a couple of weeks ago. I will not name the young man, but he is involved in Include Youth’s Give and Take programme. He feels highly discriminated against as a result of the way that the EMA payments have been divided. So I will read, from the top, exactly what he wrote:

“I started on the Give and Take programme as I couldn’t continue with school. I was under paramilitary threat and had to move to a B&B. I am really struggling for money and I miss my family. I go to Give and Take in Ballymena to get an education in a way that works for me. I wanted to get my Maths and English qualifications and some work experience to help me get a job. So far, I have received my numeracy entry level 2 in just over a month. I have no financial incentive or support to participate in this scheme, yet if I was in school, tech or mainstream education I would. I feel that this is extremely unfair and I don’t feel as valued as those who do get EMA. It would help me with lunches and transport as I make the effort to improve myself. I hope that the Minister for Employment and Learning and the Minister for Education will seriously look into this issue to help young people like me.”

I am happy to pass the original letter on to the Minister if he wishes to see it. That letter shows just how heartfelt the plea is from those young people. We need to sit up and listen to young people who are trying their best to improve their life. Schemes such as Give and Take are vital and have fantastic success rates. After about one year on the scheme, around 60% of young people involved will progress to formal education, training or employment.

Just last Friday, I had the opportunity to visit the last ever — subject to future funding — Gerry Rogan Initiative Trust residential event in Ballintoy. It was in my constituency, and I was invited to take a look. It was eye-opening to see how a group of young men who have many challenges, disadvantages and barriers that most people in the Assembly probably know absolutely nothing about — certainly, not from hands-on experience — have been taken onto the scheme and to see the dedication that teams have shown to bringing those young men together and helping them to deal with the challenges that they face. That is a vital service.

The one thing that was raised time and time again by the young people I spoke to was exactly the same thing as was raised in that letter. It really is the crux of the matter. Record levels of youth unemployment and increasing disengagement with mainstream education are a serious problem in this country. I completely support the call to finalise and implement the strategy to address the problem of young people who are not in education, employment or training.

With specific regard to EMA, the scheme’s key objectives, according to the 2010 DEL review, are to enable young people from a low-income background to remain in post-compulsory education at school or college; encourage young people to fulfil their educational potential; and ensure that those who are most disadvantaged receive additional help and encouragement to receive funds. Surely the Minister can see that those objectives are most likely to apply to young people in the NEET demographic.

We have to remember that about £26 million is pumped into the EMA scheme each year. All that we ask is that those funds are channelled to those who need them most. That is the issue. We are not here to ask for more money, although it would be nice. We just ask that the money that your Department has is channelled to where it is needed most. I am not convinced that, so far, that has been the case. Certainly, the loud and clear message from people whom I have visited in various parts of the sector is that those who are most disadvantaged and have the biggest challenges are the ones who, quite often, are left at the bottom of the pile.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Bring your remarks to a close, please.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I encourage the Minister to take my comments on board. I look forward to his response.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom mo thacaíocht a chur in iúl don rún fosta. I express my support for the motion and call on Minister Farry to retain EMA in the first instance. That will be my emphasis. I would like to hear a commitment from him on the way forward on EMA. It needs to be protected. As other Members said, it is an invaluable lifeline for many young people who want to stay in full-time education.

In the current economic climate, in which there are so few jobs for young school leavers, we must help and encourage students to stay on and get the best education available to them. Statistics show that 87% of young people in full-time education are in receipt of EMA — a statistic that, in itself, certainly proves the need for the allowance. Our party has always argued that access to education is a right, not a privilege. It should be based on the ability to learn and develop, not the ability to pay.

Various Members outlined the background to the EMA scheme. In 2004, it was introduced by the Department of Education and DEL jointly with a remit to incentivise young people from low-income families who otherwise may have left full-time education because of the financial implications for their family. DEL has lead responsibility for the scheme. That Department commissioned a PricewaterhouseCoopers report in March 2010, effectively conducting a review of the scheme. Generally, it found that, although EMA delivers on those principles and makes a difference to students from low-income families, it could be improved for maximum effect. It could be directed even more towards those who are in greatest need. Objective need is obviously the key criterion for Sinn Féin in the debate.

The overall budget, as David McIlveen just said, should and, indeed, must be maintained and distributed where it will have most impact on those who have greatest disadvantage. I welcome the emphasis that the Committee Chair, Basil McCrea, placed in the debate when he described the exclusion of some groups from EMA entitlement as a travesty.

I asked the Minister for Employment and Learning a question for written answer on why young people taking part in the Give and Take scheme specifically are not entitled to education maintenance allowance. I also asked about the financial help that they are entitled to. My understanding of the issue was greatly enhanced by a presentation by Include Youth to the Employment and Learning Committee on Wednesday 25 January. Include Youth gave our Committee compelling evidence for why people on the Give and Take scheme should be entitled to the EMA.

The Minister gave me a fairly lengthy reply. If, as he stated, there are either legislative or policy provisions that prevent him from extending the EMA to those vulnerable young people, those provisions must be urgently reviewed and amended with a view to ensuring that those young people are given parity of treatment with their peers.

The Minister referred to the difficult budgetary position facing the Department. He has great sympathy from all sections of the House on that. However, Include Youth would reiterate that, in such circumstances, the young people who are most vulnerable and need most support from DEL should be the first to receive it rather than being the very ones denied it. Human rights and equality principles require nothing less. That is also critical to the creation of a fully inclusive society that balances increasing economic productivity with enhancing social inclusion. The Committee Chair gave the example of Scotland, where there is greater support for vulnerable young people in education and training. I ask the Minister to show in his response considerable political will towards bringing people in from the cold and making sure that they are adequately supported to remain in education and training.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

The debate is both timely and hugely important. Although today’s Committee motion is specifically focused on NEET young people, it is set in the wider context of the tsunami of youth unemployment that we are experiencing. I will give some figures to support that. Between November 2007 and November 2011, there was a 155% increase in the number of young people under 25 out of work. That was the highest increase of any of the jurisdictions, and it was 43% higher than the figure in Scotland, which recorded the second biggest increase. Youth unemployment is in a serious crisis. There is no doubt that the welfare reform legislation that is coming through will mean that a lot more vulnerable young people will become part of that tsunami.

I welcome the Minister to the debate, and I sincerely hope that he gives a full commitment and guarantee. We want to ensure that all the good work that the Employment and Learning Committee has done over a number of years is set in stone, and we want those commitments.

The draft Pathways to Success strategy was put to the Executive in March 2011 and went out for consultation on 24 March 2011. The previous mandate’s Committee for Employment and Learning put enormous effort into producing two huge volumes of a report on young people not in employment, education or training. That report provided the basis for research and recommendations that are complementary to the departmental scoping study. The Department is examining the potential now for a tracking system, and, as it was put to the Committee, it is:

“tendering for research projects into the views of parents and young people.”

It does not seem to compute with the Department that that process started in 2010.

We were informed that 66% of young people fell into the category of having no identifiable barrier. We do not know why they are NEET, yet we have no figures, because the labour force survey’s data are indicative. That is a major indictment of the process in the Department for Employment and Learning. It was put to the officials at the Committee on 14 December that perhaps the reason our young people are in that category is that we do not have the data. I totally agree with that point.

I commented at that stage — I stand by it — that a dedicated team is needed to bring forward concrete solutions to the issues and that we are merely paying lip-service to the young people who are falling into the NEET category if we do not have that dedicated unit. There are no targets or set goals for reducing the number of young people who are NEET. That is what we are supposed to be doing, but, from what we are told in Committee, we are some distance from that point, despite what the Programme for Government may touch on. The number of young people falling into the NEET category is rising. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Economic difficulties serve only to increase that number, but I see no clear, definitive road map from the Department to address the issue.

The review of EMA and the number of young people not engaged in the formal education system are issues that must be brought before the House as a matter of urgency. We have a system that is, by and large, not targeted well enough. If it is not carefully tweaked, it will put barriers in front of many people who seek to continue their education. There are two key issues: we need to ensure that as many young people as possible stay on at school post 16 so that they can gain qualifications to ensure that they play a full part in the future labour market; and we need to be careful about the sensitive issues that mean that young people who are not engaged in the formal education system are catered for financially.

We need not go too much into the argument of targeting EMA at those who need it. I have no doubt that the Minister is aware of the need to ensure that EMA meets the goals outlined previously. A number of Members raised that. There is also the public finance context of DEL working alongside other relevant Departments; there is a need for a much more collaborative approach. The Committee’s engagements as part of the inquiry uncovered that, and we saw models of best practice in the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.

I do not want to touch on the point of engaging young people who cannot avail themselves of EMA due to their participation in pre-vocational schemes. Barry McElduff and other Members made the point about the Give and Take scheme run by Include Youth. Those young people are not entitled to the means-tested EMA received by their counterparts in mainstream education.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member’s time is up.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I urge the Minister to listen to the debate and to come forward with an action plan to resolve the issue.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I support the motion. It gives the Assembly a timely opportunity to consider the Executive’s approach to providing our young people with meaningful education, training and employment. As Members said, we know, as a result of the Northern Ireland labour force survey, that almost 48,000 young people aged between 16 and 24 are not in education, training or employment. That is a staggering figure, but it is not an issue for DEL alone to be concerned with. The Programme for Government must be used as an opportunity by the Executive to set out the action that they will take to deliver improved outcomes for our young people in early years, primary education, skills delivery, work experience and job creation.

The Alliance Party firmly believes that it must be unacceptable to the Assembly that any young person would not have the opportunity to reach their full potential. The human consequences for our young people of not engaging with education, training or employment have been well set out today. I thank my colleagues for that. They include increased economic inactivity, but, most important, they have serious impacts on individuals’ health and well-being and can lead to an increased risk of depression and criminal activity.

Elected representatives need to provide leadership on the issue. I welcome the fact that the Minister for Employment and Learning is committed to progressing a positive skills and employability agenda for young people. My colleagues on the Committee for Employment and Learning have also shown leadership for young people by conducting a full inquiry into how we might improve interventions to help young people who have disengaged. The inquiry found that many community and voluntary sector organisations conduct exceptional work on behalf of our young people. Some of them have been mentioned already: Barnardo’s, the Prince’s Trust, Include Youth, GEMS NI and the Gerry Rogan Initiative Trust. In my constituency, some innovative work has attempted to connect young people with the creative industries, such as gaming and programming, as ways of linking skills acquisition with interesting and rewarding employment opportunities for our young people.

It is also clear from the inquiry that improved early intervention in primary education is essential in identifying and addressing the reasons why a pupil becomes disengaged at an early stage. Another key finding is the need for improved careers guidance. The Department for Employment and Learning assures us that it has a robust menu of options for careers guidance available to teachers and professionals. However, I remain concerned about the quality and relevance of the careers guidance that we give to our young people in schools, and I am particularly concerned at the lack of monitoring and tracking of the educational, training and employment outcomes.

Establishing a steering panel comprised of Executive Ministers and community and voluntary sector representatives is a further recommendation of the Employment and Learning Committee’s report. I would be grateful for an update from the Minister on that.

As mentioned, of particular concern to the community and voluntary sector organisations, which deliver excellent work with our most vulnerable young people, is the need for a more flexible use of education maintenance allowance to include prevocational interventions. I hope that the Executive and the Minister for Employment and Learning will look to the Scottish Government for examples of how that might be achieved in the EMA review.

The key feedback from our Committee’s inquiry, however, is that, despite all that great work, if we are to give our young people the hope and opportunity that they deserve, we need a united Executive approach that sets clear aims and objectives as well as timescales in which we can achieve those. The requirement for effective collaboration could become even more acute if and when the Department for Employment and Learning, which is currently the lead Department on this important strategy, is abolished. I therefore hope that the First Minister and deputy First Minister have given careful consideration to how the youth education and employment strategy will be implemented in the absence of a Department for Employment and Learning. Indeed, the recommendation of the Committee’s inquiry is that, from January 2011, OFMDFM should be the lead Department on the issue.

Much reference has been made of late to a “lost generation”. I am reliably informed that that phrase appears at the front of Ernest Hemingway’s novel ‘The Sun Also Rises’.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Will the Member please bring his remarks to a close?

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is high time that the Executive got serious about ensuring that the sun rises on all our young people and that we give them all the hope and direction they need to achieve their full potential.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

Let me first of all say that the heading for the motion on the Order Paper is slightly misleading. It might lead the Minister for Employment and Learning, the future Minister of the Department that has those functions and, indeed, the Finance Minister to believe that we are concerned to get more young people receiving EMA. I do not think that that is what the motion means, and it is certainly not my belief.

The issue of young people who are not in employment, education or learning or training is one that, over the past number of years, has received high levels of media intention and, indeed, attention in the House. As Members said, the previous Employment and Learning Committee engaged in quite a bit of work on the matter.

Of course, we need to have a strategy that ensures that young people value education, want to engage in education or training and avail themselves of opportunities. However, the way to achieve that is much wider than the role that DEL or the Executive can play. Indeed, it is much wider than the role that government can play. Efforts are made in other areas to get greater investment into Northern Ireland and to have greater career and job opportunities for people. Indeed, as the Member who spoke previously said, efforts are also made in early years education. That is very important, given that that is the first formal interactive education that young people have and that their experience of it will stay with them throughout the rest of their educational career. However, there is also a role for the voluntary sector, local communities, businesses and parents, all of whom have a responsibility to help to raise young people’s achievements and aspirations.

The issue of poor results and underachievement, particularly in Protestant working-class areas, is one of which we now are well aware. A level of disengagement and a negative attitude towards formal education does not surprise us any more, even though it is not something that we are encouraged by. We need to widen access to education, and the University of Ulster is involved in the Step Up programme, which has been useful in doing that. Other Members spoke — this proves that our Committee listens — about Include Youth, which runs the Give and Take scheme. That scheme focuses on young people who are all considered to be in the NEET category. Most of those young people come from a care background, have difficulties with essential skills, come from deprived areas or did not complete their mainstream education. The Committee was told at subsequent briefings that those individuals are not entitled to receive EMA, although their peers in further education colleges or schools are. They are also not able to claim the non-means-tested EMA that those involved in Training for Success can. If EMA is to be successful, it must help those most in need. Young people on the Give and Take scheme pass that criteria and should qualify, but, of course, they do not. The question for the House is what to do about that. Do we simply want to expand EMA — I do not think that we do — or do we make sure that it is targeted better and includes those who undertake pre-vocational courses?

I do not think that government should necessarily simply give young people cheques to get involved in education or training just for the sake of it. Doing that will almost create a culture that means that, as long as people turn up and clock in, they will receive their payment, irrespective of whether they go to learn. We need to be cognisant of that.

I listened to other Members say that we cannot treat people as statistics or argue over statistics. Although, on the face of it, I agree with that, we must ensure that the decisions that we take on spending taxpayers’ money on schemes such as EMA are based on fact and outcomes. Although we do not have all the answers to the questions that the Committee asked, we do have some. For example, in the debate on EMA at Westminster, the UK Government claimed that 90% of those who received it would have stayed in school or education anyway, and the research that the Committee was given by PwC suggested that between 64% and 70% of young people who received it would have stayed in education anyway. The Committee was also told that some 55% of young people saved the money; 52% spent the money on leisure and going out; and 45% spent the money on clothing. That proves that much of the money provided through the current EMA scheme is not used for its primary purpose. Therefore, it is not a good use of public money. As we heard from Include Youth, we need to ensure that the money that is spent by government is targeted at those who need the money to get to school and to buy books or lunches and to ensure that they have no additional barriers to education.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Your time is up.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I finish by saying that I support the motion. It is important that we do not extend EMA. We must reduce its cost and make sure that it is targeted at those who need it most.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle, Gidh nach bhfuil mé i mo bhall den Choiste Fostaíochta agus Foghlama, ba mhaith liom mo thacaíocht a thabhairt don rún tábhachtach tráthúil seo.

Although I am not a member of the Assembly’s Statutory Committee for Employment and Learning, I take great interest in its work. I support this important and timely motion. My party colleague from West Tyrone, Barry McElduff, has spoken on the benefits of EMA and has eloquently outlined Sinn Féin’s well-stated position on the matter.

I want to use the few minutes that I have to focus on the part of the motion that deals with the strategy for helping those who are currently not in education, employment or training and who, as the Chair of the Committee outlined, are unhelpfully given a none-too-pleasant sounding acronym. However, I constantly throw the word “fracking” about the House, so I am hardly one to pontificate about the use of none-too-pleasant sounding words.

We face a crisis. However, we are not alone in doing so, and the challenge is faced by Governments across the developed world. Finding employment for our young people is proving to be a massive problem, let alone finding employment that is meaningful and sustainable and will provide a useful outcome to individuals and society as a whole. As the motion suggests, this is not an issue that should be looked at in isolation. All Departments, together with the community and voluntary sector and the private sector, need to work together and come together to draw up a strategy to deal with the issue.

No longer can we stand here talking about youth unemployment, EMA and those who are not in education, employment or training. We need to stop complaining about how bad the problem is, because, as we do so, 500 people leave these Six Counties every week and are joined by at least another 1,000 people who leave the other part of this island. We face a situation in which many of our best and brightest young people have given up. They have given up on waiting any longer. They have given up any hope, and they have given up on finding some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. Emigration has returned to our shores once again. We need not only to tackle the heart of the problem, which is creating adequate training and employment for those currently outside the system, but to inject some serious hope into our society.

We need a multi-departmental approach; many Departments face such problems and difficulties. One of the saddest facts is that many of the people who are not in education, employment or training come from families that previously found themselves in the same situation. The problem has become generational through no fault of the individuals concerned, many of whom have been let down by the system.

In my area, transport, travel and a lack of access to broadband present a serious problem for most young people. That all leads to a vicious cycle, yet we hear it being reported over and over again. How do we deal with that? Amazingly, it is quite simple. We see the same thing happening time and time again, and we need to remove those barriers. The Minister for Employment and Learning needs to take more of a lead. I acknowledge his work so far, and I look forward to his response to this proactive motion. I want him to engage with other Ministers on the three issues that I raised, which will involve engagement with the Minister for Regional Development and the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment. I also encourage him to engage with the community and voluntary sector and the private sector to see what gaps exist in the provision of services in deprived and rural areas.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I support the motion and thank the Chairperson of the Committee for Employment and Learning for bringing it to the House. It is a vital part of the debate on how we move forward. As some Members said, we are talking about a situation in which one in every five young people is unemployed today. Last June, I spoke in the Chamber about having witnessed some of the worst rioting and violence that I had seen for many years. I am certainly not saying that all the young people who were there were unemployed. When I say “young people”, I am talking about young men and women, young girls and boys, many of them with hoods on. However, many of those young people were not in education, employment or training. All I would say is that that situation could be replicated across Northern Ireland in disadvantaged communities.

As the Chairperson of the Committee said, it is not about talking up the problem but doing something about it. As my uncle Sammy used to say, we can talk about it, we can have statistics about it, and we can read about it, but at the end of the day, doing it is doing it. We need to leave the Chamber saying that we are going to do something about this situation. It is not so much about rhetoric but about doing something about the problem.

My colleague Alastair Ross highlighted the main issue, which is that EMA is not targeting resources at the most vulnerable people in our community. A number of Members have mentioned the young people who are currently on pre-vocational schemes such as Include Youth’s Give and Take programme. That is an absolutely fabulous scheme, but those young people feel, in some sense, let down by us in that they are unable to access the support that encourages participation and achievement in the schemes that we are highlighting today. They are not entitled to the means-tested education maintenance allowance received by their peers in schools, in further education colleges, on Training for Success programmes and in other situations.

For me, that is not only deeply inequitable but deeply unfair. From the heart of what we are doing as an Assembly, as an elected body, it is deeply unfair. The principle should be that those young people who are most in need of financial support to participate and to achieve in education and training should be the first to receive it, rather than the very ones being denied it. Some of the most vulnerable young people in our society are being denied access to opportunities to which other members of the community and many other young people have access.

Unlike many of their peers, those young people struggle with high levels of poverty, living completely independent lives and training to gain qualifications while managing food, rent, utility and laundry bills, often with little or no support.

To my knowledge, the Department’s formal response is that it is not possible to pay a non-means-tested allowance to students on programmes such as Give and Take or to students undertaking other pre-vocational training programmes because of — this is the key bit — benefits legislation. If there is a problem, let us get it sorted. As our Chairman said, let us get it sorted with a sense of urgency.

I have a few other things to say, but I will finish with this. I say to the Minister —

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Will the Member give way?

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

Yes, go ahead.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I would just like to hear what the Member has to say.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

As a very famous singer once said, “Thank you very much.” These are indeed either legislative or policy provisions, or they could be budgetary constraints. The Minister refers to budgetary constraints, but we should be targeting the finance to increasing the accessibility of the most vulnerable young people, rather than denying them that. As part of the Minister’s swansong, he has a great chance to do something about that. Indeed, I concur with my colleague that he could bid for the entire £25 million from the Barnett formula.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in a debate on what I consider to be a hugely important issue. It is one that can lead to poor physical and mental health, a greater risk of offending, suicide and of those affected and their children becoming trapped in intergenerational poverty. There is not only an economic imperative to address the issue but a moral one. Young people in care, those whose parents are unemployed and those with disabilities are all recognised as being those who are furthest from work, and they require considerable support to enable them to become even work ready. The unidentifiable 55% not included in those categories must also be helped.

As Members have said, the previous Committee for Employment and Learning undertook an excellent inquiry into the issue and identified, fairly comprehensively, the way forward. However, that report was over a year ago, and now is the time to have some action on the issue. There is a need for re-engagement for the young people who are currently NEET and prevention for the young people under 16 who are at risk of becoming NEET. As the previous Employment and Learning Minister recognised, whatever their background, aspirations or aptitudes, every young person should be given an opportunity to progress through adolescence, fully equipped to play an active in role in society and to gain the skills that they need to enter the labour market.

Recently, I attended an event in the Long Gallery that was hosted by the Chair of the Committee, Basil McCrea, where we met representatives of Voice of Young People in Care. It was touching to hear the comments from a lot of those young people whose circumstances are purely a result of decisions that their parents made. They find it especially difficult to improve their employability and prospects for a brighter future because they cannot afford to think about their education while simply trying to afford to live without worry. It is important that EMA is targeted to those in need, including those who are unable to access mainstream education and training and are on pre-vocational schemes. Every other Member who spoke in the debate mentioned Include Youth’s Give and Take scheme.

Many of those not in education, employment or training are identifiable, as they come through the education system. So I sincerely hope that the Minister has discussed with the Department of Education those currently at risk of becoming NEET.

Will the Minister tell us what progress has been made on developing a tracking system for those young people coming to school leaving age who we already know to be at significant risk of becoming NEET? I would also like to hear about the strategies for reaching the other 55% who are unknown.

I would like to hear whether the Minister has had any discussion with the Minister of Education on establishing a task force on NEET prevention, with a specific focus on identifying geographical areas and schools in which young people most at risk of becoming NEET are located. Is a programme being prepared to reduce the flow of such young people becoming NEET? Will the Minister detail his plans to specifically address young people who are not in education, employment or training?

In answer to a question for written answer, the Minister identified the £26·5 million Barnett consequential for Northern Ireland as a result of the youth contract that the Westminster Government —

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. While she is asking the Minister to provide a list of information, and given that one of the key objectives of EMA is to raise participation and achievement rates, does she agree that it is also important that the Minister comes back to the House with solid evidence of achievement rates of those in receipt of EMA? At the moment, that information does not seem clear. Does she agree that it is important that we get that information as well?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an added minute.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

Yes, I appreciate where the Member is coming from on that. We have statistics on various issues and we need real results on those matters, so thanks for your intervention.

I will pursue the Minister to bid for all of that £26·5 million.

In conclusion, this is a hugely important issue and one that the Committee for Employment and Learning has emphasised. It heard from numerous organisations and people who talked about the issue, and we recognise that it is important. I appreciate the Minister being here. I hope that his Executive colleagues, although not in the Chamber, will listen and heed the feelings of Members. I understand that the Minister has some sort of plan in place. I am keen to hear how all his Executive colleagues will address this issue in future. The Assembly needs to take this issue seriously, and I hope that the Minister and Executive will prove that they do.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

The term “lost generation” has become one heard often these days. Few families are not dealing with the prospect or reality of youth unemployment — a generation of our young people with extremely limited horizons for future employment. If action is not taken, the danger is that their demographic will face the prospect of being interned in a cycle of long-term joblessness, suffering the demoralisation of dependence on benefits. That young generation, who should be most energised at the start of their working lives, has suffered in the past years the brutal effects of this recession. That depressing narrative should force public representatives to act. The best social programme that any Government can provide is a job. Stormont needs to cultivate an environment in which employment is incentivised in every sector of our economy. If those in the NEET category are neglected, the North will face consequences in the long and short term.

It is fair to say that the Executive have been slow to react thus far. Across the border, successive Governments have instigated a raft of apprenticeship programmes, which have facilitated graduates and non-graduates. Every Department in the Dublin Government has been instructed to commission a programme that brings young people into the Civil Service while retaining their social welfare payment. Where is the equivalent programme in the North?

It is vital that EMA payments are retained. If the draft Programme for Government’s commitment to garner a smart economy is to come to fruition, it is essential that our young people are encouraged to prioritise education. For many of our young people, EMA offers an extra incentive and security to further their education, thus benefiting our economy and society in the long term.

I welcome the Minister’s recent answers in the House, and particularly his identification of the £26·5 million Barnett consequential in the youth contract. I urge the Minister to bid for that full amount to begin to address this issue. I ask the Finance Minister to support a co-ordinated effort to tackle youth unemployment.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree with me that, in relation to the Barnett formula, this is out of a £1 billion initiative by government to tackle youth unemploy­ment and, therefore, it is not a matter of other Departments saying let us give a couple of bits and pieces to this? I think that we, as members of that Committee, are on the moral high ground to be fighting for that.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an added minute.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I do not think that I will need it, but thank you. The Member makes a relevant point. In the House, we often talk of every Department being a Department of the economy. I think that every Department has to be a Department for tackling poverty as well. That goes right across everything we do.

According to the ‘Belfast Telegraph’, 48,000 young people have no education, no job and no hope. That is an increase of 20% over the past five years. It is clear that now is the time to act. I support the motion.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The scourge of high youth unemploy­ment is one of the issues that should concern us all, because it is a tragedy not just for this generation but for the next, in that, in terms of inculcating the work ethic and getting into a pattern of useful contribution to society, it is something that will have long-term implications.

When you look at the EMA, it seems, on the face of it, like a magnificent idea. It is to encourage and to retain in education those who are dropping out and those who are not attaining. Few would question the theory and the logic of a project like the EMA. However, you cannot simply afford to say that it sounds like a good project, therefore it must be. You have to critically analyse it to see whether it is, in fact, delivering.

One of the things that amazed me was that, when the Committee was examining the subject with the departmental officials back in September, and we began to probe how we would evaluate the effectiveness of the EMA, we were told about the PwC investigation into it that took place, but we were then — as I said, amazingly — told that PwC was not able to tell us how many of the young people who benefitted from the EMA ever attained qualifications. Qualifications are not everything, but they are an essential building block, on most occasions, to getting into and sustaining employment. We are paying out money on a weekly basis but do not know whether or not it is manifesting itself in a situation in which those in receipt of it are improving themselves, attaining qualifications and bettering their opportunities to get into work. We were told by the officials that that could not be done — I do not know how much money we spent on the PwC report, but I am sure that it was not insignificant — because there was no mechanism for tracking the young people in the programme. That seems to me to be the most elementary flaw in such a process. You devote resources to young people to stop them dropping out and to get them back into education, but you do not put in place a tracking mechanism to see whether it is actually working. It is only when you know that that you can see how it needs to be fine-tuned, where it needs to be refocused and how you need to adjust it. It seems to me that an elementary mistake has been made in that regard.

It comes in the context of an approach to all of that that, sadly, has been rather laid back. It is well over a year since the last Committee for Employment and Learning produced a report. It has largely been gathering dust. In September, we were told that a consultation process would be under way and that the Executive would be making decisions in the spring of 2012, with a view to making real changes two academic years hence. It will be interesting to hear from the Minister, but I suspect that, since September, there has already been significant slippage.

Are we serious about this issue? On the information we have gathered to date, in the absence of any tracking facility, and in the urgency that seems to have attended any investigation of how the programme could be improved, we seem to be demonstrating an almost horizontal attitude rather than a proactive attitude to this matter. That is a tragedy for the young people in this country, many of whom are struggling with a morale issue about how they are ever going to make it in society.

Society owes to do what it can. It cannot spoon feed everyone, but it owes to do whatever it can to help young people into employment. EMA may be working, but the truth is that we do not adequately know because we do not properly track its implementation.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As Question Time commences at 2.30 pm, I suggest that the House take its ease until that time. The debate will continue after Question Time, when the Minister for Employment and Learning will be called to respond.

The debate stood suspended.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Before I move to Question Time, I want to make an announcement. I wish to inform Members that I have been notified by Michelle Gildernew that she will be indisposed for a number of weeks, following an accident. She has resigned as Chairperson of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety. The nominating officer from Sinn Féin, Mr Pat Doherty, has nominated Ms Sue Ramsey to fill the vacancy, and she has accepted the appointment. As a Member may not be the Chairperson of a Statutory Committee and a Standing Committee at the same time, Ms Ramsey has been replaced as the Chairperson of the Committee on Procedures by Mr Gerry Kelly, who has also accepted the appointment.

I am satisfied that the correspondence meets with the requirement of Standing Orders, and I, therefore, confirm that Ms Sue Ramsey is Chairperson of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety, and Mr Gerry Kelly is Chairperson of the Committee on Procedures, with effect from today.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

1. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister when they will bring forward a revised sexual orientation strategy. (AQO 1210/11-15)

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will ask junior Minister Jonathan Bell to answer that question.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

As I have said in previous answers, it is our intention to publish a sexual orientation strategy during 2012. Stakeholders and organisations from the sector will be fully encouraged to participate in and contribute to the associated public consultation process.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the junior Minister for his answer. It is important that we are aware that it will be published in this coming year. Will the junior Minister assure us that the strategy will be released in conjunction with the revised cohesion, sharing and integration (CSI) programme, which is currently being drafted by five parties? It was intended that the CSI programme be released in conjunction with the sexual orientation strategy.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The CSI is, obviously, being developed by five parties, and we await responses from some of them. Everybody will have an opportunity to input into the process.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Will the junior Minister clarify the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister’s (OFMDFM) position on civil partnerships and adoption by gay couples?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Civil partnerships are the responsibility of the Department of Finance and Personnel. It is my understanding that a judicial review of the existing adoption legislation is ongoing. It is a matter primarily for my colleague the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

How will the strategy fit with the range of other OFMDFM strategies that will be brought forward shortly, including the CSI strategy?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

It is a question of complementarity. We want the policies to respect and complement all of the section 75 groups.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

Will there be any mention of gay marriage in the sexual orientation strategy? Has any progress been made on providing full equal rights to gay couples?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Questions on those matters are the subject of much discussion and have been the subject of much discussion in the media over recent weeks. The issue is not under active consideration.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

2. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on how they plan to recognise the 2012 European year for active ageing and intergenerational solidarity. (AQO 1211/11-15)

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I am pacing myself, Mr Speaker, so I will ask junior Minister Jonathan Bell to answer that question.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister is committed to the principle of equality of opportunity for all the people here in Northern Ireland. The European Union has designated 2012 as the European year (EY) for active ageing and solidarity between generations, and it aims to promote conditions for a better future for our young and older citizens. Junior Minister Anderson and I have already met representatives from the European Commission and various stakeholder organisations to discuss proposals for marking EY 2012 in Northern Ireland.

On 25 January, we attended an event in Parliament Buildings to promote the work of Linking Generations Northern Ireland, which is designed to promote and support the development of intergenerational practice across the region by providing real opportunities for older and younger people to meet and learn from each other. We also intend to discuss the issue with the new Commissioner for Older People and the Commissioner for Children and Young People and take their views on how best to mark this year. When it is finalised, it is anticipated that some of the programmes will include events promoting the benefits of active ageing, the launch by OFMDFM of the ageing strategy consultation and the development of proposals to extend age discrimination legislation to the provision of goods, facilities and services.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin.

I thank the junior Minister for his answer. There have been many examples of best practice intergenerational work in our communities over the years, and I pay tribute to the members of the Bovalley Community Association, an intergenerational group, who are in the Assembly today and whom I met earlier. Will the Minister confirm that any events planned by his Department to mark this year of active ageing and intergenerational solidarity will have as broad a reach as possible, and will he ensure that all communities are allowed to be at the fore of such initiatives?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

That is important. I welcome the fact that my colleague George Robinson MLA invited the group here today, and we welcome their participation and those of all community groups. As far as possible, we will take part and try to involve them in the strategy and the work that we are doing.

Our officials are drafting the framework with input from both the Older People’s Advocate and the Older People’s Advisory Panel. That will form the framework for a new strategy that will be based on the United Nations principles for older persons. Just so that Members can have a heads up, the United Nations principles for older persons have been prepared with a global perspective. However, the proposed strategic objectives included in the framework document have been drafted to reflect society here while retaining the ethos and spirit of the UN principles. The community groups, organisations and people undertaking the work will help us to accurately reflect society here, and I congratulate them on the work that has been undertaken.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I was delighted today to see a commitment in the Programme for Government to extend the age discrimination legislation to include the provision of goods, facilities and services. Will the junior Minister give an update on that commitment?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

That commitment is in the draft Programme for Government, and I thank the honourable Member for North Down for raising the issue to extend the age discrimination legislation to the areas that he identified. It is being taken forward in Great Britain, and officials here are considering the legislative implications for Northern Ireland. Although we recognise the value in eliminating discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities and services in relation to age, we also need to carefully consider the impacts that such legislation may have. I will give you an example: at the moment, being allowed to discriminate on age allows us to provide services to older persons free of charge. Therefore, we want to be careful as we work through the legislation. However, OFMDFM’s intention to extend the age discrimination legislation to goods, facilities and services is a significant undertaking. It will involve the development of primary legislation, which will take around three years to complete.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I thank the junior Minister for his answers given on behalf of the First Minister. I confess that the closer I get to 65, the younger it seems. What assistance has been provided by OFMDFM thus far to assist with the work of the Pensioners Parliament?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Martina Anderson and I attended events organised by the Pensioners Parliament. Most recently, I attended an event in November, and spoke on behalf of the Department. We submitted ourselves to questions taken directly from the Floor of the Senate Chamber. The work and commitment of the Pensioners Parliament is to be commended. Martina Anderson and I noted that, at a conference in Belfast due to start at 9.00 am, pensioners were queuing to get in from 8.30 am. That indicates the celebration we should have that people are living longer. We should welcome the commitment that they can bring forward. The Pensioners Parliament is one means by which older people can hold government to account. It is a procedure that we very much welcome.

Margaret Ritchie (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Bearing in mind the need to protect older and younger people and the fact that you have addressed, along with junior Minister Anderson, the Pensioners Parliament, can you confirm what discussions have taken place at joint consultative committee level regarding the need to address the serious concerns presented by the welfare reform proposals, which will have a detrimental impact on the elderly and, in particular, pensioners?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The honourable Member raises some particularly valid concerns in relation to welfare reform and the concerns that that presents. Importantly, people will have seen what the Northern Ireland Executive did over the Christmas period to attack fuel poverty and its impact, which was one of the key areas for elderly people. You saw the provision of finances that were given there, and also for many older people living with cancer.

In the work that is being jointly undertaken with the new Commissioner for Older People, and in our work with Patricia Lewsley-Mooney, we are looking to see what events we can take forward, not only on the issue of welfare but to see how we can improve relations and understanding across our society.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

3. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the revised code of practice for ministerial public appointments. (AQO 1212/11-15)

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

On 16 January this year, the Commissioner for Public Appointments, John Keanie, sent an updated code of practice for ministerial appointments to all Ministers in the Executive. The deputy First Minister and I strongly support the work of the commissioner, and are asking all our colleagues to implement the updated code within their Departments with immediate effect. The main changes in the updated code provide clarification on the recording of ministerial appointment decisions and introduce a facility for Ministers to create, if they wish, a reserve list of substitute candidates for appointments should an unexpected vacancy arise within one year. Those are sensible and practical suggestions, for which I am grateful to Mr Keanie. Given the restrictions on government spending, I welcome the additional flexibility that reserve lists bring to the appointment process.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the First Minister for his response.

It is accepted that anyone appointed to serve on a public body must have the requisite skills. However, does the First Minister accept that, unless we remove some public appointments from the remit of the code, we might never effectively start addressing the under-representation of women and people from ethnic minority backgrounds across the public service?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The legal requirement, and, in my view, the proper requirement, is that appointments should be made on the basis of merit. However, we do need to recognise that there are many occasions when it is, for instance, necessary to appoint boards that have a balance of skills and knowledge. That does require us to look at a range of issues and, where possible, should be on the basis of the balance within the community.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

Will the First Minister list the public bodies that his Department is responsible for, and perhaps provide an update on the appointment of a new Police Ombudsman?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The key bodies for which OFMDFM has responsibility that fall within Mr Keanie’s remit are the Commission for Victims and Survivors, Ilex, the new Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation that is being set up, the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Commission, and the Commissioner for Children and Young People. Of course, we also have a role in the appointment of the Police Ombudsman, although responsibility for day-to-day pay and rations lies with the Department of Justice.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The First Minister mentioned the Maze/Long Kesh Development Corporation. I am interested to know whether there has been any recent progress on the appointment of the corporation.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

An advert seeking a chairperson for the corporation will appear fairly shortly. The recommendation of the panel that carried out the initial interviews was that we should advertise again to ensure that we get somebody with the requisite skills. We will also look for additional members that we can put in a pool of candidates for membership, and we have started work on that. It is hoped that the advertising will happen this week — if not this week, then next week — so that that can be done as quickly as possible.

This is an extremely important development. It is close to the city of Belfast but within the city of Lisburn. It has massive potential to bring jobs to the region on a long-term basis, and it has the size and status to be a regional centre, so it is important to the whole of the Province.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

4. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline their plans for the social protection fund for the remainder of the current budget period. (AQO 1213/11-15)

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The Executive established a social protection fund (SPF) to assist those most in need in the wider community. This year we agreed to prioritise fuel poverty through the fund, and we committed the full £20 million budget to a winter fuel poverty payment scheme. That is being progressed by the Department for Social Development and the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety (DHSSPS) under the Financial Assistance Act (Northern Ireland) 2009. Through the scheme, a one-off payment of £75 will be made to persons in receipt of income-based means-tested benefits, including income support, income-related employment and support allowance and income-based jobseeker’s allowance. Pension credit recipients and people in receipt of cancer treatment in line with criteria determined by DHSSPS are receiving one-off payments of £100. Those entitled should begin to receive payments in the coming weeks, with the majority of payments being made by the end of this month.

Although funding for the programme was secured for only this financial year, we are committed as an Executive to securing moneys for future SPF programmes during the remainder of the current Budget period. We will seek to identify revenue streams during budgetary exercises. With that in mind, our officials will continue their discussions with departmental colleagues to develop proposals that will form the basis of the future social protection fund spend programme.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the First Minister for his answer. Does he accept that there was a serious deficiency in the first round of the social protection fund, given that families with disabled children were not included?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

It might be worth pointing out that, when we look at criteria, they have to be criteria that fall within the overall funding available. Even with the criteria that we have set on this occasion, when we have had a longer period to prepare, we have exceeded the £20 million. Indeed, we were successful during the January monitoring round in getting sufficient funding, and I think that we have spent about £22·5 million on the SPF this year.

There are many areas of society that would undoubtedly benefit from further funding being made available to them. However, as we look to the fund in the long term, we will, I think, see that that there is perhaps a view that simply doling out money is not the best way, and certainly not the only way, of assisting those who are most vulnerable and in the greatest need. We will perhaps look at more holistic ways of giving assistance to the section of the community that needs it most.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Given that the social protection fund was designed to help to protect vulnerable individuals from the worst aspects of financial cuts, have Ministers given any consideration to using the funding in future years to help to fund an anti-poverty strategy?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

Maybe that flows from the comments that I made to the Member. Rather than simply looking at it on the basis of handing out sums of money to individuals, we need to see whether we could develop the programme more strategically to be of greater assistance to sectors. In doing that, we will consult fully, and I hope that the Committee will help us with that.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

Will the First Minister give precise details of when payments will start and whether all vulnerable groups will be paid quickly?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

As I understand it, the Department for Social Development will deal with about 250,000 payments. It has the data available, and I understand that the money will be paid during this month. However, we added to our criteria for patients suffering from cancer, and DHSSPS set down criteria for that. We believe that about 6,000 people are entitled to receive payment under that scheme. However, it can be done only if they agree to it. Not everyone who has cancer will have told friends and relatives about it, so it is a sensitive issue. The application process closes, I think, on 15 February. Of the 6,000 entitled, the last figure that I heard was that 3,000 had already put in applications, and I urge any others who wish to seek that assistance to do so before 15 February.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I wish to follow on from earlier questions: will the Minister outline details of any further funds, or initiatives, which seem to be the way he would rather go, to help to cushion the blow of welfare reform on many vulnerable and disadvantaged people here?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I am being particularly careful not to be prescriptive, because welfare reform will clearly have an impact. We fool ourselves if we do not recognise that it could be a significant factor for many families in Northern Ireland. Over the next number of months, we probably need to assess the impact that it will have; what strategies we can put in place to give assistance; and how best we can use that fund.

At the same time, it was only in the Budget that we were able to identify the £20 million for this financial year. We have an agreement in principle that we will attempt to get a similar size of fund for future years, but that work is ongoing. The Budget review group has discussed and will continue to discuss the issue, but we need to identify a source of funding for the remaining three years.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

5. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the devolution of corporation tax powers. (AQO 1214/11-15)

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The Government’s response to the consultation on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy was published on 20 December 2011. There was considerable support for lowering the corporation tax rate, particularly from the business community. Three quarters of respondents were in favour. However, there remains work to do, and we are determined to continue to make progress on that important issue.

The ministerial working group met on 15 December 2011 and agreed that, between now and the summer, it will seek to establish with clarity the costs and benefits, administrative changes and potential legislative vehicle for transferring corporation tax powers to Northern Ireland. On 10 January and 24 January, officials met HM Treasury and HM Revenue and Customs to begin the detailed work needed to determine how the devolution of corporation tax would work in practice. Initial discussions covered costings, the design of the administration system, how the block grant adjustment might work and the economic impact. Further meetings of officials are being scheduled.

We now have a draft Programme for Government commitment to press for the devolution of corporation tax powers and to reduce its level. Our draft economic strategy demonstrates how we will ensure that benefits are maximised. Although we want those powers, we must ensure that the costs do not outweigh the benefits. We will not pay over the odds. The date for the next ministerial working group meeting has been set for 7 March, when we will assess progress to date. The group is expected to submit a report to the Government in the summer. Following that, a decision will be taken.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the First Minister for his answer. What implications, if any, does the current debate on Scottish independence have for the prospect of corporation tax powers being devolved to Northern Ireland?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

As far as Her Majesty’s Government are concerned, there will be sensitivity around those issues, perhaps not so much on the debate on independence, but on the “devo max” debate, because, unquestionably, the maximum form of devolution is probably more popular among the Scottish population.

Northern Ireland is a unique case. We share a land border with a country that has a significantly more attractive level of corporation tax. We are coming out of a very long period of conflict and division. Our economy has been set back over a sustained period. Therefore, it needs a considerable lift. The rebalancing of our economy is needed much more than in Scotland. It also needs to be pointed out that, because devolution of corporation tax powers is not a free ticket, there is a downside to the block grant. The reduction to the block grant in Scotland would be significantly greater — perhaps around £2 billion — were its Government to reduce the level to that of the Republic of Ireland. All those matters will be taken into account. Northern Ireland has a special and unique case and a very sound argument.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Can the Minister outline measures that are being examined to mitigate the cost to the block grant of reducing corporation tax?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

The Finance Minister has, obviously, set out a series of measures on the basis of current circumstances. A reduction in the block grant to allow for corporation tax to be lowered would, probably, not affect anything other than the final year of the comprehensive spending review period. It is likely that the Executive would look at it on the basis that we would announce a future date for the commencement of a reduction in corporation tax, were we to get the power to do so. We would still enjoy the ability to sell locations in Northern Ireland to foreign direct investors on the basis of what would come down the line and be in place by the time those companies arrive and become profitable.

Of course, on top of that, the Budget review group looks constantly at where savings can be made. There is no doubt, however, that the ability to lower the level of corporation tax would significantly help with investment opportunities. When the deputy First Minister and I were in the United States and, indeed, in other parts of the world, it was the one trendy factor that chief executives and leading officials from various companies would look at in order to encourage people to site foreign direct investment. Therefore, there would be a return with regard to jobs as well as the obvious advantages that would come from the additional tax take that would develop.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

My colleague asked a similar question to mine. Is there clarity as yet on the financial reduction from the Northern Ireland block grant? Can the Minister explain to the House how that will be measured and provide some detail?

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I wish that I was the one who measures it. I could set it at an appropriate level. The Chancellor has indicated that the reduction will not be negotiated; it will be done by a set formula. It should be done on the basis of reduction of the corporation tax level that is received at present.

If that is what happens, that is not unhelpful to Northern Ireland because going through a period of conflict has obviously had an impact on private sector development in Northern Ireland.

Given the period of recession that we are coming through, the figures for our present corporation tax levels are probably as low as they are likely to be. However, there are other factors that can be taken into account and that, in my view, are negotiable, namely whether they take into account the benefits that the Treasury would have as a result of us lowering the level of corporation tax. Reducing the number of people who are dependent on benefits and increasing the tax take in Northern Ireland, in respect of both VAT and other peripheral taxes, would clearly make a difference to the Treasury. National insurance also makes a difference to the Treasury. Nobody knows the figure as yet, and those are the issues that officials and, eventually, Ministers will have to decide on.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Question 15 has been withdrawn.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

1. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline the financial and non-financial assistance provided by Invest NI to start-up and existing businesses in East Londonderry in the last four years, and for her assessment of the success of these businesses as a result of this assistance. (AQO 1225/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

In the last four years, Invest Northern Ireland has made over 500 offers of support to businesses, bringing total investment in the East Londonderry constituency to £48 million. In addition, 800 new business starts were created in the constituency in the same period. Of course, the last four years has also seen the onset of the economic downturn. A number of measures have been implemented to help our businesses deal with its impact. Most recently, in November 2011, I launched the Boosting Business campaign, which provides a range of support, both financial and advisory, to help businesses cope with the impact of the downturn. A key element of the campaign is the jobs fund, which aims to help boost employment creation in the shorter term. Under the jobs fund, a number of new and existing businesses in East Londonderry have already been supported. You can be assured that Invest Northern Ireland is working hard to identify new projects that will lead to further job creation in the constituency.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her very full and detailed response. Does the Minister have a percentage for the number of companies that are located in the East Londonderry constituency and assisted by Invest Northern Ireland but are from outside Northern Ireland?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

If the Member means foreign-owned firms in East Londonderry, I will try to get that information for him. I know that we have been working mostly with indigenous firms in the East Londonderry area. However, I will endeavour to get him the percentage figure that he is looking for. I will write to him and place the information in the Library for other Members to see.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Does the Minister agree that there is real scope for firms to carry out research and development programmes due to the two excellent universities in Northern Ireland and their top quality graduates?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I absolutely agree. Indeed, just last week, we launched the Northern Ireland Advanced Composites and Engineering Centre at the Science Park. That work has been ongoing with Bombardier and other major firms. It was supported by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and we were delighted that the Business Secretary, Vince Cable, was able to come along and jointly open the centre with me last week.

We have seen an increase in business spend on research and development. That is encouraging, but I accept that that is from quite a low base. We want to encourage more firms to become innovative and to spend more of their bottom line on research and development because firms that have engaged in research and development alongside the universities have really benefited from it.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The Minister will be aware of a recent event in my constituency that brought together community reps, businesspeople and elected reps. One of the major issues raised at that event was finance for microenterprises. What has been done in that regard?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member knows, we have launched the SME growth loan fund from Invest Northern Ireland. We hope that that fund will be able to help firms, however small, that are struggling to gain access to finance in the most traditional way, from the banking sector. We hope that the procurement process for the fund manager will be finished very soon, and we will then be able to go live with that.

I entirely accept the point that small and medium-sized businesses are being continually pressed in relation to access to finance and banks. That is the case even for firms that have a banking relationship. I use the term “relationship” very loosely because some of the banks are bearing down very heavily on some of our companies. It is a matter that everybody in the House should be very concerned about. If banks put businesses that are trying to get through difficult times out of business, they will not gain the finance from those businesses in the future. Job losses will occur as a consequence, and our economy will not be able to sustain that. The banks have to step up to the mark and work with the rest of us to take our economy through very difficult times. Short-term measures may work in the short term, but they will not help us in the medium to longer term.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her continuing interest in east Derry. She will be aware that, recently, the Assembly acquired the former army barracks at Shackleton, Ballykelly. Will she seriously consider the setting-up of a special task force so that the opportunities that that presents can be maximised?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I know that the Member takes a special interest in the former barracks at Ballykelly. He has raised the issue on many occasions with the First Minister and deputy First Minister. As he will know, we are seeking specialist advice on the options for the site. That is being prepared by the Executive’s asset management unit. The site has almost 300 acres, with almost 1 million square feet of buildings. Therefore, of course it has massive potential for the area. At Executive level, I will watch with great interest to see what comes out of OFMDFM, and I will obviously be very interested in what is to be developed.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

2. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of the Irish Times and InterTradeIreland innovation awards. (AQO 1226/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

InterTradeIreland (ITI) has been involved in the Irish Times InterTradeIreland all-island innovation awards for the past three years. During that time, ITI has promoted and encouraged companies in both jurisdictions to engage in and involve themselves in innovation. I understand that 18 companies have been shortlisted across six categories: organisational system process innovation; product innovation; service innovation; application of R&D; green-tech innovation; and public service innovation. However, I am disappointed that only one Northern Ireland company has been shortlisted.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for her response. I am sure that she agrees that the Irish Republic does not have a monopoly on innovation. Therefore, the statistics that she has highlighted are deeply disturbing. Will she also comment on the nomination of Bord Bia, which local food producers tell me operates an increasingly protectionist stance?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I hear what the Member said about the latter point. I am hugely disappointed about the fact that only one of the 18 companies that have been shortlisted is a Northern Ireland company. I understand that that is not a new phenomenon. I looked into the matter: only two were shortlisted last year, and only one was shortlisted in 2010. There is a pattern, and I have to ask why that is the case. When I asked who was judging the awards, I learned that, apart from InterTradeIreland staff, all the judges are from the Republic of Ireland. That causes me grave concern, and I am writing about it to InterTradeIreland’s new chairman.

I was astonished by Bord Bia’s nomination and shortlisting given what I have said about the protectionist practices of Bord Bia in relation to Northern Ireland food. However, I am taking the matter up with the new chair of InterTradeIreland and its chief executive.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I share the Minister’s disappointment that more Northern Ireland firms have not been nominated to the shortlist. However, I hope that the Minister is not, in any way, undermining the value of having such competitions and awards, particularly for innovation, which provides an excellent basis for the development of industry, North and South. Does the Minister agree?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Certainly, I welcome any competition that encourages innovation, but surely the Chair of the ETI Committee must be concerned that only one of our companies has been shortlisted for that award. I have to ask why that is the case. Is it the judging panel? Is it the media partner, which is ‘The Irish Times’? What is the problem in getting more companies from Northern Ireland shortlisted? In the previous question, the Member asked me about the importance of research, development and innovation. It is hugely important for our economic development that we continue to encourage companies. How are they encouraged? They are encouraged by being on shortlists for awards and all those things.

As the Chair knows, the implementation of an innovation awards scheme on a North/South basis is part of the Belfast Agreement and is listed in the British-Irish Agreement Act 1999. However, all it says is that we are to implement:

“an innovation award scheme on a North/South basis, with support from the private sector”.

Perhaps there is something that we need to look at in relation to the awards scheme to see if it could be better managed and to ensure that there is equity and fairness as regards Northern Ireland companies.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

The Minister has given clarity and context to her views on the nomination process. Given that, of the 18 nominated organisations, seven are from Dublin and none is from Belfast and she does not think that that is an accurate reflection of the mix, what would be an accurate reflection?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

When you see that, out of 155 applications, only 24 were from Northern Ireland companies, it tells us that there is a problem, not just in Belfast but across Northern Ireland. The issue for me — I hope that the ETI Committee will follow it up as well in respect of InterTradeIreland — is how we can make the scheme more attractive for firms to become involved, so that our small companies, as well as those of the Republic of Ireland, get the benefit of the InterTradeIreland innovation awards.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. As we grapple with the worst recession that we have faced in a generation, with soaring unemployment and emigration, the fact that this awards ceremony proves to be a priority for the DUP and its Ministers is very concerning to me. Would the Minister not be better providing support and assistance to local firms, so that they can compete across the world with innovation, instead of targeting cheap attacks on a good all-Ireland body?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member’s question and the tone in which it is asked show where the Member is coming from. He is saying, “Do not ever attack InterTradeIreland”, even when there is plainly something at fault in relation to that award ceremony. If the Member thinks that I will shy away from such issues, he has obviously not been around for very long.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

3. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment how many additional companies have been supported as a result of the Boosting Business campaign. (AQO 1227/11-15)

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

12. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for an update on Boosting Business, which was launched by Invest NI in 2011. (AQO 1236/11-15)

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

To lower the tone of debate, I will ask question 3. [Laughter.]

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 3 and 12 together.

As of 30 January 2012, Invest NI, through its newly established enquiry handling team, has received a total of 3,214 new enquiries, via the 0800 number, online and text response, since the launch of the Boosting Business campaign on 14 November 2011. That is against an overall campaign target of 2,500 enquiries.

A large number of those businesses and individuals have been supported with a range of advice, guidance or Invest NI programme support, while others have been referred to Departments and agencies — for example, DEL, DARD, HMRC, and local councils — or to business information websites such as the Northern Ireland business information website, nibusinessinfo.co.uk, as appropriate.

An example of the positive impact of the Boosting Business campaign includes the Focus on Finance events organised at various locations across Northern Ireland. Demand for the six initial events was such that three additional events were run in January — two in Belfast and one in Newry. In total, 527 delegates across the wider business base attended those events, with 276 businesses subsequently signing up for up to five days’ free consultancy to address specific financial issues.

Invest Northern Ireland has also organised three ABC of Selling seminars, aimed at helping delegates improve their selling skills and getting practical tips on how to increase sales, close a deal, manage a sales force and develop an effective sales strategy.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answer. The figures that she cited are impressive, but, at the end of the day, we want to see the creation of jobs. Can the Minister give any indication of how many jobs have been created as a result of all the figures on enquiries etc that she has given? We want to see jobs on the ground. Thank you.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member will know that jobs is just one part of the Boosting Business initiative. There are five parts to Boosting Business: jobs; exports; research and development; new technologies; and skills. To date, across the various job fund measures, a total of 1,796 jobs have been promoted, of which, before the question is asked, 378 have been created.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

Is there any advice or strategies in place to help businesses to increase their exports?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Exporting is one of the five themes of the Boosting Business initiative. We have been quite successful in that area, but, as we are coming from quite a low base, there is much more to do. Last week, figures were released by the Department that showed a 9·5% increase in exports, which was very pleasing. I have also been trying to encourage firms to export to the BRIC countries, and exports to those countries were up by 29·7%. I think that that is telling and demonstrates that firms are looking to export to different places. They have discovered that the world is a small place and that there are many opportunities in Brazil, Russia, India and China that people need to look at and take up. We want to do more with those companies to encourage them. In particular, we want to strengthen their supply bases in Northern Ireland, so that the companies and their supply chains are able to make gains.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The Minister referred to the importance of research and development. How is the Boosting Business campaign helping to deliver a much needed increase in research and development amongst our local businesses? Has the Department seen an increase in the number of partnerships being forged between businesses and our colleges and universities?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

We hope that the new Northern Ireland Advanced Composites and Engineering Centre will help with the research and development that is being taken up by small companies. That centre is available to big companies and to many smaller companies that do not have access to the sort of expertise and materials that are in that centre. We hope that companies that make up the supply chains of Bombardier, FG Wilson, Wrightbus and all the other big firms will take advantage of the facilities there.

We have also found that the innovation voucher scheme, through which small companies can buy in innovation expertise from the universities, has been hugely successful. That has worked well with both universities, the further education colleges and the agricolleges. There is a lot going on, but there is always more to do. We need to continue with research and development and innovation and trying to be innovative ourselves.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Does the Minister accept that, for many small businesses that are starting off, some sort of start-up help is important? What consideration has she or her Department given to returning to some sort of start-up grant? How much is being invested in the Boosting Business campaign?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I know that the Member is probably looking back to the days when companies that completed the Go For It programme were given a grant of £400. We currently give assistance in the region of £1,500 to those who are not in education, employment or training and decide to set up a new business. We also assist those who want to set up a business in a neighbourhood renewal area with slightly less than that — I think it is £1,000. Money is available in those two areas. When an evaluation was done on the £400 that was given to Go For It programme applicants, it was found that it did not make the difference that was needed for some. However, I accept that we are now in different economic times, and that it may need to be looked at again. I will do that.

I do not have the entirety of the figures on how much we are spending on Boosting Business. However, I am happy to write to the Member with those figures.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

When the Programme for Government was put forward, there was talk of 25,000 jobs being created. I asked the Minister whether she would use think tanks or other ways of discussion with business that would lead to the creation of jobs, and she recommended the Boosting Business campaign. However, when I looked at it, I must admit that I could not see how it would do that. Today, we heard —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Do I detect a question?

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

The question is this: what other mechanisms is she looking to put in place to ensure that we listen to businesses to determine what they need in order to create jobs?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member will know that I meet various business forums almost every week, and I work with them. My most recent encounter with the business community was a discussion about whether it felt that the economic strategy was going in the right direction and what other things needed to be included in it. As the Member knows, the strategy is out for consultation at the moment. If there are issues that the business community wants to raise with me, I will, of course, listen to it. I have done so and will do so in the future.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

4. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline any plans her Department has to improve telecommunications further for businesses in South Belfast. (AQO 1228/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

In September 2011, my Department published the telecommunications action plan 2011-15, under which it has set out its priorities for further developing Northern Ireland’s already world-class telecommunications infrastructure over the next four years. That includes the implementation of a project to deliver broadband services of at least two megabits per second to all premises across Northern Ireland and an initiative aimed at improving access to mobile voice and data services across the region. Those multi-million-pound initiatives, which will be delivered on a Northern Ireland-wide, technology-neutral basis, are currently being scoped with a view to full procurement commencing in the summer of 2012.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Will she update the House on the broadband fund?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

We have already secured £4·4 million from the broadband fund, and, combined with the £5·5 million allocated in the 2011-15 Budget and matching EU funding, we are going to be able to deliver that minimum two megabits per second broadband service. That is good news. We would like to have had more money from the central pot, but we are having ongoing discussions with Broadband Delivery UK (BDUK) to try to source additional funding of up to £6 million to deliver an innovative project aimed at improving mobile broadband coverage. As Members will know, I have often said in the House that we need to look at mobile signals more and more because people are moving away from static computers to handheld devices. That is the direction of travel of our telecommunications strategy, and we will concentrate on that.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

What is the Minister’s assessment of the potential for job creation as a result of the improvements in South Belfast? How will that impact on the developments at Queen’s University? Is there some synergy there?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

There are always synergies between the academic institutions and new technology. It is my hope that we will remain at the forefront of telecommunications in the UK, in conjunction with our universities, working closer together. The Member has always been very supportive of the work that was carried out by MATRIX, the industry-led science panel. Telecommunications was one of the areas identified by that panel of academics, working with industry and facilitated by government to deliver what is new and upcoming for the economy in Northern Ireland. Telecommunications remains at the forefront of innovation for this economy.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

What measures is the Department taking to ensure that access to Project Kelvin and the Hibernia Atlantic line will be available for small and medium-sized enterprises?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Project Kelvin, as the Member knows, is one of our flagship projects in Northern Ireland. It gives us a really competitive advantage over the entirety of these islands because we have a direct link to the United States. It is an open access project, and, therefore, it can be used by any company. There are points of presence throughout Northern Ireland. Certainly, if the Member has a particular company in mind that she wants to encourage to use Kelvin for competitive reasons, I urge her to speak to Invest Northern Ireland so that we can take advantage of what is an absolutely marvellous piece of equipment.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

5. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment whether her Department has considered the introduction of means-tested social tariffs for electricity. (AQO 1229/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am already on record as stating that any move to introduce social or affordability tariffs in the energy sector would be extremely complex and unlikely to solve the hardships caused by fuel poverty, not least because such tariffs have to be paid for by other customers. There is an immediate potential impact on wider economic competitiveness and employment, potential impacts on competition in the energy market and additional burdens on households, some of which could be pushed into fuel poverty themselves as a result of having to subsidise others.

In 2010, the regulator’s office carried out a consultation, ‘Assisting with Affordability Concerns for Vulnerable Energy Consumers’. Feedback indicated that, although there was broad agreement that affordability assistance should address affordable warmth and not just help with electricity bills, there was no consensus on who should receive assistance, what mechanism could be used to identify and assist them and how much any assistance should amount to. That in itself sends us a message.