Northern Ireland Assembly, 6 March 2012

316 contributions from 66 members. The official report.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I wish to make a statement on the thirteenth North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meeting in the health and food safety sectoral format, which took place in the NSMC joint secretariat offices in Armagh on Thursday 2 February 2012. Minister Michelle O’Neill MLA and I represented the Northern Ireland Executive. The Irish Government were represented by Dr James Reilly TD, Minister for Health, and Frances Fitzgerald TD, Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. I chaired the meeting on this occasion. This statement has been agreed with Minister O’Neill, and I make the statement on behalf of both of us.

Minister Reilly and I welcomed the signing of a memorandum of understanding between Ireland, Northern Ireland and the US National Cancer Institute in December 2011. The memorandum of understanding will enable the continuation for the next five years of joint programmes in cancer education, training, research and prevention. We also welcomed the launch by the Northern Ireland Cancer Registry and the National Cancer Registry of the ‘All Ireland Cancer Atlas: 1995-2007’ and the launch of the new All-Ireland Institute for Hospice and Palliative Care. The institute will deliver education, research and care services for people who are nearing the end of life with illnesses that include cancer. We noted the continuation of the US/Ireland R&D partnership and welcomed the participation of a high-level member of the US State Department as co-chair of its steering group.

Ministers welcomed the progress to date on arrangements for the radiotherapy unit at Altnagelvin and noted that construction is planned to commence in 2013, with an operational date of 2016.

Ministers also noted the success of the North/South conference on alcohol misuse, which was held in Armagh on 26 January 2012. Over 130 delegates from many sectors attended the conference, which included informative presentations from local and international speakers. It was agreed that the two Health Departments would develop proposals on how joint work in that area could be taken forward in a more structured way, and consideration is being given to that. The Council also noted the development of strategies in both jurisdictions on alcohol and drug misuse and the continuing commitment of the Departments to share information and best practice to address those issues. We also noted the forthcoming publication of a 10-year tobacco control strategy for Northern Ireland and noted that regulations to introduce text and photo warnings on tobacco products were introduced in Ireland in December 2011.

Joint progress on suicide prevention was also noted, including the National Office for Suicide Prevention and the Public Health Agency part funding an all-island project targeting the issue of suicide and young men.

Minister Fitzgerald and I jointly launched the interjurisdictional protocol for the transfer of child care cases between Northern Ireland and Ireland. The protocol will allow for the sharing of information between the statutory authorities in relation to children who are in care or are on the child protection register or those for whom there is a level of concern and who move between jurisdictions. The protocol will be made available to appropriate health and social care and health service executive staff and will be included on both departmental websites. The Council acknowledged the work undertaken by the five existing child protection subgroups, noted that the work of those subgroups was largely completed and that the cross-border steering group on child protection will bring forward a new work programme to the next NSMC health and food safety meeting.

Turning to the food safety sector, Ministers welcomed the recently appointed chairperson of Safefood, Ms Lynn Ní Bhaoighealláin, to her first NSMC meeting. Ministers received a progress report on the activities of Safefood, including scientific and promotional activities and the results of the market research on the initial phase of the Stop the Spread obesity and excess weight campaign. The progress report also provided an update on a research report on food poverty funded by Safefood. The Council discussed the main priorities for Safefood in 2012 and reviewed progress in finalising its business plan and budget. Although Dr Reilly and I indicated the necessity of constraint on the budget for Safefood, we assured the meeting of our ongoing support for the statutory role of the body now and for the foreseeable future. Ministers welcomed a presentation by Dr Gary Kearney from Safefood on the work of knowledge networks. The networks will help facilitate greater knowledge sharing by those involved in all parts of the food chain to support and enhance food safety with an overall aim of ensuring that consumers can continue to have confidence in the food that they eat.

The Council noted recommendations from the St Andrews Agreement review concerning the Food Safety Promotion Board (FSPB) referred by the November 2011 NSMC plenary meeting. The two Health Departments will now consult with the FSPB and bring forward proposals for consideration at the next NSMC health and food safety meeting. In addition, Minister Reilly and I agreed to publish on each Department’s website the North/South feasibility study, which was made available for viewing from 2 December 2011. It is important to recognise that the study was commissioned in a different economic landscape, and my Department and the health service now face serious budget pressures. However, I shall continue to support North/South projects where such developments deliver better outcomes for people and are cost-effective.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement and thank him for the briefing on it that he gave me and the Deputy Chairperson yesterday.

Last Thursday, the Health Committee held its first formal joint meeting with the health committee in Dublin, and a number of areas of co-operation came up, many of which have been covered in the statement. It is important to have that co-operation because, as you can see from the statement, there is progress on the whole issue of health, especially around border areas.

The issue of the radiotherapy unit at Altnagelvin Hospital was raised. During the meeting, confirmation was given that the Irish Government are committed to the money that they set aside for the capital costs. However, there was nothing on the running costs. Therefore, it is important for you to give us an idea of where we are with the issue of running costs.

The issue of suicide also came up. It is important that the joint work in progress on suicide prevention is mentioned. However, you said that the progress was noted, including a number of issues on an all-island project targeting the issue of suicide and young men. Minister, I would appreciate it if you could give us more detail on that issue, if you have it available today. If not, I ask you to send it to me, as the matter came up during the meeting and is of interest to everyone who was at the meeting.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The issue of capital costs at Altnagelvin is dealt with. Discussions are ongoing on the costs associated with its running and the contribution that should be made for people receiving care who are from the Republic of Ireland. I hope to bring that to a conclusion in a reasonable and sensible way. It is not a matter of cross-subsidisation; it is a matter of people paying their way. That is important in this instance and in other instances where people from the Republic of Ireland make use of our healthcare facilities. We are happy to give people care, but we do not want to subsidise that to the detriment of the people who elect us to this House.

In dealing with suicide, we obviously have the Protect Life strategy, which is being examined and updated. The latest figures for 2011 have not yet been updated, but the current rate of suicide is 15·4 deaths per 100,000 of the population. The target that we were looking at was 10·7 deaths per 100,000. Any death is unacceptable, but realistically, that target is not an unreasonable one to aim for. The rate of suicide has been rising over the past number of years. We need to arrest that rise, turn it around and challenge it. We need to get the right messages out to people and properly use resources, and those are all courses of work that we will do. Where there is common ground between what we do and what happens in the Republic of Ireland, we need to see how best other people do things and evaluate that so that we can have the best possible response to the awful blight on our society that is suicide.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement today. What work is going on to address alcohol abuse through the North/South Ministerial Council?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We had a very useful conversation on alcohol abuse. At the North/South conference in Armagh on 26 January 2012 Minister Shortall was very much of the view that she wants to press this forward in the Republic of Ireland. She recognises the problems of having cheap alcohol available and the abuse that takes place in homes and among families — young people abusing themselves — and the implications that it has for the health service, justice and society as a whole. That is now recognised by Ministers on both sides of the border.

Leadership is being given on the issue, and we are commissioning work that will help us establish all the facts that will allow us to move forward to legislate on the issue. We are keeping a close eye on what is happening in Scotland and are being regularly updated on that. Our officials work closely with our Scottish counterparts in the work that they are doing. I was glad to see that David Cameron has come on board over the past week. It would be good if the British Isles as a whole had a minimum price for alcohol and alcohol was not abused as it is currently, with the consequences that it has for society.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. I would like to have heard more cast-iron guarantees from the Minister in answer to the Chair’s question about the revenue costs associated with the centre at Altnagelvin. My party has always supported cross-border co-operation where it makes sense and there are obvious benefits for the populations in both jurisdictions. Will the Minister update us on any discussions he had with his opposite number about Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That was not part in the meeting. However, conversations continue at senior level in the Civil Service about what services are available at Daisy Hill Hospital, what is used by people from the Republic of Ireland and what potential there is for more people from the Republic of Ireland to use such services and for us to get the appropriate money for providing those services.

I have some concern, which is being raised with counterparts in the Republic of Ireland, that, for example, people are coming across and using the A&E facility. Of course, in the Republic of Ireland, you have to pay for a lot of this. You have to pay for your GPs and prescriptions. People who live on the border are taking advantage of the benefits that exist in the system that we have here. It is important that we are fully reimbursed for that. I feel that, at this moment, we are not getting full reimbursement. We get substantial reimbursement but not full reimbursement. It is not the role of this Executive to subsidise healthcare in the Republic of Ireland, and we need to ensure that that is not the case.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I welcome the Minister’s statement and his continued recognition of the importance of North/South collaboration and his work in that regard. I was also at the meeting in Leinster House last week and was struck by how much progress can be made through intensified collaboration. A problem shared is a problem halved, and we have quite a few problems on this island.

I welcome the confirmation regarding the capital commitment to the radiotherapy unit. I actually flagged it up —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member to come to his question.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

— at the meeting on running costs. It is important that this tangible symbol of cross-border collaboration does not become a white elephant. Is the Minister confident that the unit will be able to attract necessarily qualified staff to maintain its running?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am very confident. Unfortunately, there is an oversupply of radiographers in Northern Ireland, many of whom are very keen to get work. We need to make better use of allied health professionals in general. They can create significant savings in the health service in providing early interventions and preventions.

We will proceed with establishing training for radiographers at an early point so that, come 2016, people will be ready to fulfil those roles and meet the requirement to have a first-class facility in the north-west.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

Like others, I welcome the statement. The Ministers received a progress report on the activities of Safefood and an update on the research report on food poverty. Will the Minister elaborate on the contents of that, given that we have recently been told about the enormous food wastage right across the country? What level of food poverty are we talking about?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

As regards Safefood, one of the concerns that we have about food and poverty is that many people who do not have a lot of income spend it on the wrong types of food. They very often go to supermarkets or pound shops and buy the wrong sort of food, which contributes to obesity and ill health. We need to encourage people to get back to basics. An awful lot of skills have been lost in the last two or three generations. As a consequence, people do not seem to know how to go to the local greengrocer and buy quality vegetables or how to buy some of the cheaper cuts of meat and prepare a nutritious dinner for their family. There needs to be work on training and educating our young people about how to provide quality food in the home. Unless we get that through to young people, we will be defeated. Such skills are not being passed on in the home any more, and therein lies the challenge.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I also thank the Minister for today’s statement, which is welcome. Like Mr McCarthy, I want to bring up the issue of Safefood in respect of obesity. As the Minister knows, over 20 Members took part in the Stop the Spread campaign. Some did better than others, and I will not say how I did. What plans does the Minister have to address the issue of obesity?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The work of the obesity forum was externally evaluated. The evaluators found that all aspects of the forum were well managed over the past three years and that it provided updates, information and resources on obesity. The three components of the forum — closed meetings, workshops and the e-bulletin — all played a valid and complementary part in helping to address the objectives. It has, therefore, been agreed that the forum will continue for a further three years.

The forum assists with identifying common areas for action in the obesity reduction policies of the two jurisdictions. It also facilitates the exchange of best practice, with most networking through half-yearly workshops on a range of topics that typically attract more than 100 participants. Workshop topics to date have included men’s health, communication, physical activity and partnerships for tackling obesity in young people. A comprehensive e-bulletin, providing updates and links to relevant topics, is distributed to a wide range of professionals.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. I understand that the two Ministers are reviewing the work undertaken by Safefood and that there needs to be consensus on what its priorities should be. We are now in the third month of 2012, and yet you seem to be saying that Safefood’s business plan and budget for 2012 have not yet been finalised. This is a matter of urgency for the organisation. It needs to be able to plan its work programme for the year. Can you give us some idea of when that business plan will be signed off?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Minister Reilly and I certainly have some concerns about the fact that Safefood’s work replicates that of other bodies. In constrained financial times, we cannot justify two organisations carrying out the same work. For example, Safefood was doing work on obesity even though the Public Health Agency was already doing work on that. Safefood is also straying into work that the FSA is carrying out. Given our really difficult financial circumstances, there is little value in paying twice to get the same job done. So, Minister Reilly and I agree that we need to review Safefood’s work and identify whether there is a way forward that will allow it to continue to do good and effective work without duplication. It is logical that we do that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I also thank the Minister for his statement. Will he detail how many staff are employed by the Food Safety Promotion Board in total and how many are on each side of the border?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I do not have those figures to hand, but I will make them available to the Member in writing.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Are there one or two dedicated officials in the Department who focus on liaising and dealing with Safefood? If that were the case, it would help to clarify the interests of the northern part of the Food Safety Promotion Board. I served on the board in the past, and I feel that it does worthwhile work. However, it needs to make sure that it is focused on what it has to do north and south.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

There are people in the Department who are in regular contact with representatives from Safefood. They identify what the Department’s priorities are, and we give encouragement to Safefood in respect of its work. The bottom line is that ministerial agreement on such issues is required. At present, Minister Reilly and I seek a way forward that will ensure that any work done benefits both jurisdictions and will not mean that we pay more money for the same service.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I wish to revert to the issue raised by Mr Gardiner. In 2011, the Minister’s response to my question was that Safefood employed 31 people, none of them in Northern Ireland. He also told me that the employees’ community background was not monitored. In June 2011, the Minister said that he would ask for the community background of Safefood staff to be monitored. Did that happen? What was the outcome?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

My understanding is that there is a record of the monitoring that has taken place. We will seek to make it available if Members so wish.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I welcome the statement. The Minister referred to the radiotherapy unit, on which construction will commence in 2013. Is he in a position to outline roughly when in 2013 that construction will commence? Will he outline the benefits that would accrue to sufferers not only in Northern Ireland but in the Republic of Ireland if we, hopefully, were able to receive full payment for treatment offered to people in the Republic?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The first element of the outline business case, OBC 1, is complete, allowing us to move ahead with commissioning enabling works and project support, which includes absolutely necessary consultancy work. We will move on to OBC 2, which is nearing completion, and we trust that it will be ready to come to the Department in the next few weeks.

The real benefit is that radiotherapy is a relatively short treatment. Often, someone who travels from Strabane or Londonderry, for example, has to travel for one and a half or two hours to get to Belfast for maybe 10 or 15 minutes of treatment. They then have to travel for one and a half or two hours to get back home. The unit will make this type of treatment very accessible to over 90% of the population in Northern Ireland. Therefore, it is a significant step forward. It will upgrade the standard of care for cancer sufferers. For all of us, moving forward on that project is a win-win situation.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. He acknowledged the work undertaken by the five child protection subgroups and said that the cross-border steering group will bring forward a new work programme. Will he give the House any further detail on what will be included in that forward work programme?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The interjurisdictional protocol for the transfer of childcare cases is designed to promote and ensure best practice when children known to statutory social services move from one jurisdiction to the other. The protocol offers guidance to practitioners and managers working in statutory sector children’s services in both jurisdictions on how cases should transfer from the responsibility of services in one jurisdiction to the other. The protocol builds on existing best practice and ensures a consistent approach to the transfer of all children who are in the care of a statutory authority in either jurisdiction and are considered to be in need or subject to procedures to safeguard and protect children. The protocol and its operation will be reviewed as part of our commitment to work on a cross-border basis to ensure that the most effective safeguarding of children and child protection arrangements are in place between the two jurisdictions. If, subsequently, any additions or amendments need to be made to the protocol to improve practice and outcomes for children, they can be made with the agreement of both Administrations.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I am grateful for the opportunity to make a statement on the skills strategy for Northern Ireland and the launch of the associated employer engagement plan.

The draft economic strategy identifies skills as a crucial ingredient in rebalancing and rebuilding our economy.

Skills help economies to make the most of new opportunities in high-value-added activities; encourage greater investment and innovation; help businesses to compete in export markets; and, ultimately, support economic growth and enhance productivity. Skills are also critical for improving social inclusion.

My Department is working hand in hand with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) and Invest Northern Ireland to make sure that we have the necessary skills to support our economic vision. Last year, I launched the skills strategy for Northern Ireland ‘Success through Skills – Transforming Futures’, and I was pleased that members of the Committee attended the launch. In December, it was a real honour to present an international example of best practice on skills at a major skills conference in Washington that was sponsored by the Atlantic Council and PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC). I am also delighted at the growing interest in our strategy in the European Union.

Our strategy considers the current skills base, examines the skills that we are likely to need in future to grow the Northern Ireland economy and highlights areas for action. Through the strategy, my Department plays, and will continue to play, a key role in raising the skills of the workforce to ensure that businesses have the people they need now and in future.

Skills are widely accepted as the key raw material in the modern, knowledge-based economy and are one of the main drivers in achieving our economic goals. Yet it is clear that our skill levels are generally too low. A large element of the current productivity gap between this region and other regions can be traced to skills deficits, and if Northern Ireland is to compete in a global economic arena, there must be a concerted effort, on all fronts, to drive up skills.

I am committed to the upskilling of our workforce and to addressing skills shortages and skills mismatches. We must ensure that our economy is working as efficiently as possible. Given, current levels of unemployment, skill shortages are particularly frustrating. It is of the utmost importance that we increase the number of people with higher-level skills, with management and leadership skills and with skills in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) subjects. Those are all important issues for my Department that I am addressing. For example, the Made Not Born campaign continues to engage with businesses to highlight the importance of management and leadership skills and to raise awareness of the training programmes that we offer, such as management analysis and planning and the suite of provision under the management and leadership development programme.

Furthermore, the Success through STEM strategy has made much progress in the past year and will be showcased in the One Year On event that will be held in W5 on the 29 March. The way in which the business sector has worked with government to take forward that work has been crucial. Moreover, following consultation, the higher education strategy will be published in the coming months. That will set out the higher education sector’s contribution to the objectives set out in ‘Success through Skills – Transforming Futures’. Engagement with the business sector is critical in ensuring that the curriculum is up to date and relevant to the needs of industry. That follows on from similar work in the further education sector.

We cannot rely on the flow of young people into our workforce to change our skills profile: they simply cannot make up for the shortfall within the required timescales. About 80% of those who will make up the 2020 workforce are in the workplace having completed their mandatory education. We must do more to work with employers and encourage them to see how investing in the skills of their workforce can have a real impact on their businesses and the performance of our economy. In turn, we need to ensure that employers are aware of, and can easily access, the relevant departmental programmes and services. With that in mind, I have today launched an employer engagement plan, and I have made a copy of it available on my Department’s website. That plan is key to achieving the ambitious goals set out in the skills strategy, and it focuses particularly on how my Department will engage with businesses over the coming years. It highlights a number of initiatives that will be of particular interest to employers and a selection of related projects.

The employer engagement plan sets out how I will make it easier for local businesses to articulate their skills needs to government and training providers; upskill their workforces; have the excellent training that they offer in-house accredited; have the existing skills of staff recognised; and better utilise those skills in their workforces. In doing so, the strategy will help to rebalance and rebuild the economy. It will also aspire to increase levels of productivity and social inclusion.

Overall, the employer engagement plan includes 20 projects and initiatives that will be delivered predominantly over the next 18 months. I will take the opportunity to outline several key examples of the projects and initiatives covered in the plan. The development of a skills delivery model for emerging sectors is a key project. A demand-led skills system is at the heart of the skills strategy and relies on timely and accurate information from employers and their representatives. To build on that supply of information, the Department will work with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment (DETI) to establish a foresight unit that will help to identify emerging sectors and their specific skill needs. The Careers Service will build on the existing industry fact sheets by examining ways in which that high-quality labour market information can be presented in a clear, accessible and useful way to all its users.

I often hear that employers are confused about how they can access training provision. I readily accept that that is an important issue, and it is one that I have been proactively addressing since becoming Minister. Building on its pilot phase, the Skills Solutions Service will help employers to understand and access training provision, which is available and is crucial to growing the skills that modern business needs. Well-trained and knowledgeable skills solutions advisers are now available to meet any employer on a one-to-one basis anywhere in Northern Ireland, and they can dispel the complexity.

Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to encourage employers to contact my Department and make use of that free service to find out what support, financial and non-financial, is available to help them to develop the skills of their workforce. To help to raise the skills levels of people in the workplace and establish clear progression routes, the Department will work with a number of leading companies, training organisations and sector skills councils to develop and pilot a higher level apprenticeship in ICT and engineering. I am also committed to increasing the number of learners studying full-time or part-time for foundation degrees.

As part of the employer engagement plan, my Department will design and pilot two management and leadership development invention models for microbusiness across a range of sectors with a view to offering that provision to all microbusinesses. We are also working closely with Invest NI to ensure that an integrated framework for management and leadership is in place. Those two developments will build on the Department’s significant provision in that area and help to improve the advice, support and provision offered to a wider range of companies. My Department will also work with employers, particularly those in STEM areas, to encourage more of them to offer placements and scholarships to people studying relevant subjects at college and university. That is an important way in which employers can demonstrate the exciting opportunities that exist in Northern Ireland.

In response to the immediate imperative to rebuild the economy, I want to highlight a number of specific projects. A dynamic new approach in the employment service involves the creation of a new employer engagement team. Such a fresh and innovative approach will provide the advice and guidance that companies need during the current economic downturn. The preselection of suitable clients and pre-employment training to meet their recruitment needs will be key to the service. On-site redundancy services, with partner organisations, will also be on offer to those employers in a redundancy situation.

I am also aware of the concerns raised by employers about the employability skills of young people entering the workforce. Although a lot of excellent work has already taken place in our colleges and universities, I will examine whether more needs to be done to ensure that our young people develop key skills such as teamworking and problem-solving, as well as the work-based skills needed to gain employment in a highly competitive labour market.

I am also committed to ensuring that, in Northern Ireland, we stay ahead of the game. I have, therefore, introduced a skills-benchmarking project, which will seek to examine and benchmark our performance against other regions as well as assess the Department’s performance and its associated impact on productivity and employment against other small, open and developed economies. By undertaking that analysis, we can judge our performance against previous years’ efforts and also ensure that we remain competitive internationally.

I make it clear that the launch of the employer engagement plan is not the extent of my ambitions. Since taking office, I have been committed to addressing skills shortages and mismatches. I have recently announced further funding of over £6 million for colleges, through the continuation of the employer support programme for the next 4 years, commencing in this financial year, 2011-12. That programme enables colleges to develop a range of innovative projects to support local employers.

Yesterday, I attended the Software Testers Academy graduation, where 19 academy graduates received their software-testing certificates. Following the identification of a specific deficit of software testers, a pilot 14-week intensive training and placement programme was put in place, specifically targeted at non-information-technology graduates. The academy programme was developed jointly by the Department for Learning and Employment (DEL) and Invest NI, working alongside local industry and the South Eastern Regional College. Virtually all of the 19 trainees who completed the course have secured ongoing employment with their placement company.

I have also identified a number of sectors as priorities for my Department, and I shall outline some of the work that is being taken forward in those areas. The ICT industry continues to be an important driver in the economy, yet specific skills shortages and skills mismatches in software development, infrastructure management and applications management threaten to hamper potential growth in the sector. Building on previous work in that area, I have recently formed a new ICT working group, which brings together representatives from Invest Northern Ireland, DETI, the Department of Education, universities and further education colleges, the chair of the e-skills employer board, and the relevant business organisations. The purpose of that group is to agree a co-ordinated approach to assessing the ICT sector’s current skills needs, to understand issues relating to the relevance of education and training provision, and to take forward an agreed action plan.

Alongside that work, my officials, together with those from Invest NI and the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, have been working with representatives from the food and drink manufacturing sector to address their specific skill needs. Work is under way to finalise a short-term action plan to increase management and leadership skills and to attract more talent into the industry. That will be finalised in the coming months. With the industry’s vision driving this process, positive change will soon be realised.

Over the next two years, Northern Ireland will host an impressive series of events and celebrations and the launch of many exciting new visitor attractions. Those events offer us an opportunity to showcase what our region has to offer. I recognise the opportunities for the tourism and hospitality industry over this period, and I am determined to make the most of them to provide employment for the local labour market and to boost the local economy. Obviously, the skills of staff in the hospitality sector are fundamental to that success, and I have decided that support for skills development in the sector should be a priority. My Department’s skills solutions team has been working with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and People 1st, the sector skills council for hospitality. It has developed and put in place a customised training programme for customer service known as WorldHost.

Other sectors of importance include retail, financial services, advanced manufacturing, advanced engineering and emerging sectors such as health and life sciences. My Department is currently reviewing the future provision and funding arrangements for adult training in the workplace, including apprenticeships, to ensure that resources are targeted more effectively on the priority skill needs of the economy and meet the needs of adult learners. A steering group has been established to take the views of the key stakeholders on the findings of the research and to help formulate the new policy and funding arrangements.

As well as that sectoral approach, my Department continues to work closely with Invest Northern Ireland to maximise our offering to potential inward investors. Under the assured skills programme, my officials work to draw together the talent and expertise contained in our further and higher education sectors, as well as our own experience of assisting companies to find and train new staff.

We are able to put together a custom-built training package that, as well as growing indigenous businesses, assures newcomers to Northern Ireland that the skills that they need to make their investment a success can be found here. That relatively new programme is already playing a strong role in growing our economy and providing employment opportunities for our workers, and I plan to build on that successful work.

The Department cannot achieve the results that we aspire to on its own. It is clear to me that, if we are to make meaningful inroads into improving the skills of our workforce, we need more of our employers to buy into the skills agenda. Northern Ireland needs companies that are serious about training and upskilling their workforce and committed to improving skills for the benefit of their businesses and for Northern Ireland plc. I believe that the projects detailed in the employer engagement plan will help to make real progress towards ensuring that we have the skilled people that we need to avail ourselves of the current and future opportunities and to support the economic vision set out in the economic strategy and the Programme for Government.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I welcome the Minister’s statement, which sets out in some detail the work that the Department is doing on the issue of skills development and skills shortage in Northern Ireland. Can the Minister give the House some indication of what level of engagement there has been with businesses and employers prior to the establishing of the employer engagement plan, which sets out the 20 projects and initiatives? Can he further elaborate on the role and function of the foresight unit that is being established between DEL and DETI?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Deputy Chair of the Committee for his comments and his recognition of the work that the Department is doing, particularly on the skills agenda, for the future development of the economy in Northern Ireland.

He stressed, quite rightly, the importance of developing this with business. Doing it in a vacuum is completely pointless, so ongoing development of our policies and strategies with the business community is absolutely critical. That has been very clear at all levels, whether we are talking about the skills strategy, the employer engagement plan or some of the specific projects that flow from that plan. We have set up a specific steering group to advise us on the review of adult training, and that draws on representatives from the business community to ensure that what we are doing meets the needs of business.

We have to make sure that what we do in Northern Ireland is incredibly efficient and makes the best use of our scarce resources. Unless we are directly responsive to the needs and views of business, we will not be discharging our duty to spend public money efficiently. So, hopefully, I can give the Member and, indeed, the entire House the reassurance that we are working very closely with business.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Comments were made in last Wednesday’s ‘The Irish News’ by the founder of Powerscreen in County Tyrone, Mr O’Neill, who identified the approach taken by many grammar schools as being too academic in the sense that it results in a situation where there is a shortage of skilled workers becoming available for the local engineering industry. Do the Minister and his Department agree with concerns that, for example, grammar schools do not engage adequately with further education colleges? Has there been, or will there be, extensive engagement with the local engineering sector?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for his question; he raises some very important issues.

Let me first address the general point that he makes. We have to make sure that what happens with education is highly relevant to the future needs of the economy, and that involves what happens in the school system, in the further education system and in universities. I am very pleased that the Department of Education has come on board the ICT working group, and, to take one example, we are looking at the need to develop more bespoke courses on software programming and software development as opposed to what is currently the case in ICT, which is more about the use of applications. Employers often do not need that as much as they need the actual software skills.

He mentions issues with engineering. I am very aware of the comments that have been made, and I have heard others expressing them. I recently held discussions on those matters with the CBI, and my officials have followed those up. We are doing a scoping exercise with business to put together a report on what is happening in the engineering sector and whether there are particular skills shortages and mismatches. On the back of that assessment, I am prepared to consider the establishment of a further engineering skills working group to try to bring the education providers and business around a table to thrash out the issues and, potentially, draw together an action plan for that sector. I am very alert to the issues that Mr McElduff has raised, and we will see whether we need to intervene in the manner that I have suggested in a few weeks.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

This is a good announcement by the Minister about the employer engagement plan. Although we can be critical of the Department on many occasions, this is certainly good news. The Minister is clearly aware of the Committee’s focus, certainly over the past year or more, on young people not in education or training. Can the Minister assure the House that young people who are not in education, employment or training (NEET) will not be further marginalised or excluded from upskilling?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Ramsey for his question. Let me reassure the Member in a couple of respects. First, in response to Mr Buchanan, I stressed the importance of ensuring that we use the resources within our economy very efficiently. It is my philosophy that every person in this society has the potential to make a contribution to our economy. If we do not invest the resources to allow every person to develop to their full potential, that individual will suffer and our economy will also suffer because we have an untapped resource. We cannot afford resources to be used inefficiently.

To specifically address the comment made by the Member, I am certainly committed to driving up skills across a very broad front. We cannot afford any particular sector to be neglected. The Member will be aware that my Department leads on behalf of the Executive in relation to NEETs and that we are currently finalising an interdepartmental strategy called Pathways to Success, which I intend to bring to the Executive in April. I will make a full statement to the House thereafter. It goes hand in hand with everything we do.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I add my congratulations to the Minister on his statement. Minister, what investment do you consider needs to be made in skills if the Executive were to secure changes to corporation tax in Northern Ireland?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for his question. He raises a critical issue. It is important that we recognise that the skills needs of our economy may shift, maybe in some dramatic ways, maybe in some small, subtle ways, in the context of securing a lower level of corporation tax. At present, a lot of the support that we give to the demand side to help business is around the notion of subsidising costs, so we end up attracting investments with the non-profit centres of businesses coming into Northern Ireland. In the event that we had a lower level of corporation tax, we would have a shift in our focus towards incentivising profit making. The particular nature of the business that may grow in Northern Ireland or investment that would come in from overseas may change on the back of that.

It is very important that we are prepared well in advance of that so that we can meet the potential shifts in skills demand that would flow from a lower level of corporation tax. For that reason, I have commissioned a major piece of research to assess those particular points. I am pleased that Oxford Economics is undertaking that, and that report is due to be presented to me before the end of this month. I will be happy to make that research more widely available both to the Committee and wider society.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I just want to touch on an issue that is relevant in my constituency, where local engineering firms are finding it very difficult to get the appropriate staff with the appropriate skills.

I welcome your engagement plan, but I want assurances that you will spread that out across Northern Ireland and make sure that people can stay in their home town if they wish.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mrs Overend for her question. There were probably two elements to it. As for the latter point that she made, it is very much an employer engagement plan for Northern Ireland. I stressed that the skills solution service is available for employers anywhere. It is not a Belfast-based service, where the employer has to be sucked into that Belfast mindset to take it forward. It is available anywhere in Northern Ireland for businesses to access and to have a bespoke response to the particular needs that they develop.

I am also very interested in the comments that the Member made about engineering. They reflected the comments that were made by Mr McElduff a few moments ago. It is perhaps further confirmation of what I am hearing; that there is potentially an issue in the engineering sector of which we need to be mindful. I give the Member the same assurance that I gave to Mr McElduff. We are currently investigating that in a systematic way. If there seems to be a strong case for an intervention to be made to try to bring together education providers and businesses to address some of the issues, I am certainly very committed to moving ahead in a very short timescale to do that.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

The Minister, quite rightly, talked about the importance of the tourism and hospitality sector, particularly in this year, which is our year of opportunity, with the Titanic signature building opening later this month, the hosting of the Irish Open and the new visitors’ centre at the Giant’s Causeway being among a range of things that we have. Does the Minister, therefore, agree that it is important that the impression with which visitors leave Northern Ireland is vital to our future tourism product? To that end, will he give us some detail of the type of work that is being done with taxi drivers, bus drivers, tour guides and those who work in hotels to ensure that the service that they offer visitors is up to scratch and that the impression that visitors leave Northern Ireland with is very positive and makes them want to come back?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Member for his question. He identified a critical issue. It highlights the importance of Ministers and Departments working in partnership around these things. I recognise the work that has been taken forward by the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Executive to promote tourism and attract major events to Northern Ireland. My particular responsibility, as Minister for Employment and Learning, lies in investment in the skills of our workforce, which is why I have prioritised tourism and hospitality as a priority skills sector in response to the needs of the sector and the huge opportunities that exist for Northern Ireland.

The Member was also quite right to identify the importance of people’s experience of hospitality and whether they would return to Northern Ireland and recommend to other family members or friends that they should visit Northern Ireland. The evidence from other situations overseas strongly indicates that the level of the hospitality and experience is critical to return visitors, which is why it is so important that we invest. We have put together a bespoke programme called WorldHost, which was developed with the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and People 1st, which is the sector skills council. Some very early courses that are based around catering activities have been established through the Northern Regional College, and we are very mindful of moving ahead quickly, given that the Irish Open will be on the north coast this summer.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. On the back of what has been said, Vancouver in Canada and parts of Australia specialise in hospitality and the tourist industry, and they make people feel special when they arrive. My question is about the consequences of the economic downturn. Thousands of people have lost their jobs in such sectors as the construction industry. Will the Minister explain what is being done to adapt victims of unemployment to new and meaningful opportunities?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr McCann for his question. He was very apt in drawing attention to Vancouver as the example. The person who organised the Olympic Games in Vancouver for the British Columbia tourist board was the key presenter at the launch of the WorldHost initiative in Northern Ireland. I wondered whether Mr McCann had been there and picked it up.

So, yes, we are learning from best international practice.

It is important that we recognise that there is a retraining challenge in the construction sector. In some respects, the Executive will do what they can to increase the demand for construction skills, whether through moving ahead with important capital projects or with the green new deal, which is dear to my heart. It is equally important that we recognise that a number of people in construction will need to be retrained for other activities. Demand in the future may not be at the level of four or five years ago. All that we do is geared towards offering people who have been through formal education the opportunities to retrain. That is why I stress that 80% of the 2020 workforce are already in work or have left school. The plan is being launched today to focus on their needs, as opposed to the needs of those in the formal education system.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his statement announcing the strategy and plan. I was at Harland and Wolff shipyard recently with my colleague Peter Robinson. During our meetings, senior management said that they had a number of skills shortages. They stressed that flexibility from DEL officials was required with older workers who are very skilled but have maybe 80% of the skills needed to be a piping engineer or an electrician. They supported the work done to date but they encouraged us to ensure that the plan will have a flexibility of working —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member just to —

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

Sorry, I will ask my question. In working with Harland and Wolff and the training providers, will there be that flexibility?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Douglas for his question. I understand the thrust of what he said. It is important to recognise that, on the one hand, we have the formal qualification system that we all know and recognise, and, on the other hand, people doing the job in the workplace may not have those qualifications but, over time, have built up experience and knowledge. That is why one of the key strands in the employer plan is the recognition of, and trying to find a means of accreditation for, that in-house knowledge and in-company training. That is a particular way in which we can address the needs of the type of worker whom Mr Douglas described and of whom there are many others.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat. Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an Aire as a ráiteas agus as a chuid freagraí. I thank the Minister for his statement. He outlined an ambitious strategy. What processes and procedures does he have in place to track and monitor progress?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr McCartney for his question. As I stated, we have 20 different projects. We also have a wonderful flow chart, which will be part of the publication on the website showing the timescales for each of the programmes. That will be made public and be transparent so that I, my officials, MLAs, the public and businesses will be clear about what will be done, when it will be done and by whom it will be done. They will be able to monitor progress.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I also welcome the Minister’s comprehensive statement, which reflects the general anxiety in industry. Will the Department give due consideration to having more employer-based, quality training schemes, such as those in Bombardier Shorts, which has an excellent school of training for modern apprenticeships and higher technician training? I think that that is crucial, particularly for the engineering industry in Tyrone and mid-Ulster, which was referred to last week by Mr Pat O’Neill.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member to finish.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I am trying to be relevant, Mr Speaker.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Byrne for his question, which reflects some of the issues that Mr Douglas raised about the importance of recognising in-company training and its efficiency.

Often, in the education system, we are essentially making a best guess as to what employers need. That is done with the best of intentions but sometimes with imperfect knowledge. Work training is done within companies and is very directly associated with the particular needs of a particular business.

One of the more exciting aspects of the employer engagement plan lies in the potential to move towards a level 4 apprenticeship, which we hope to commence piloting later in 2012. Members will be aware that, at present, apprenticeships apply only to levels 2 and 3. Level 4 apprentice­ship exists elsewhere in the world, and it is important that we make clear that apprenticeships are a very viable and fruitful way of accessing employment, even employment at high levels. We are starting in the ICT and engineering sectors. I hope that that sends out an important signal that there is a range of choices available for young people with regard to their future.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. The Minister will be aware that 41·6% of the working-age population have no qualifications whatsoever. What flexibility and innovation will his Department bring to encourage the upskilling of this workforce? If I were an employer and I had a large, low-skilled workforce, I would not want my employees going, during my time, to take those extra qualifications and courses. I suggest that there should be work at weekends and in evening classes that will fit in with the schedules of that workforce, which vitally needs to upskill.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr McIlveen for his question, which stretches beyond the immediate scope of the employer engagement plan but highlights the need for an integrated approach to skills. Shortly, I will release a more overarching plan that tries to knit together what we are doing — in higher education, the employment service, further education and this plan to deal with business — to show how it is all integrated.

On the specific points that he raises, we cannot afford for people to be underskilled. We need to invest across a broader front. We have a legacy issue in Northern Ireland, with too many people with low or no qualifications. As to the remedy for that, we offer a whole package of different skills, including essential skills, literacy, numeracy and basic ICT skills. On that point, I say to employers that they should engage with the Skills Solution Service that my Department offers, and the advice on courses. There is flexibility as to when and how such courses are undertaken.

I say to employers that it is of fundamental importance that they invest in the skills of their staff, not out of altruism for Northern Ireland but for the sake of the bottom line of their business. Investing in your staff is a good thing for your business, and the evidence shows that businesses that invest in staff are often better geared to survive through difficult times and will grow more rapidly when there is a recovery in the Northern Ireland economy.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I wish this initiative well. However, I am sure that the Minister agrees that, ultimately, it will be judged not by its promise but its delivery. In that regard, I press the Minister further on the issue of tracking and monitoring its success or otherwise. It surely requires more than the publication of flow charts to drill in and see whether the project is working. Therefore, will there be hands-on monitoring directing this programme and delivering results to make sure that it is achieving?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I encourage the Member to finish.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

More than once, the Employment and Learning Committee has been surprised by the lack of tracking —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I must insist that the Member comes to his question.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Will there be monitoring and hands-on tracking of this programme?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank Mr Allister for his question. The comment that he made at the start of it is absolutely true; this will be judged on results and how we improve the skills of people in the workplace. It is also, in a more general sense, about how we match demand and supply in Northern Ireland.

We need the two to be tracked together as efficiently as possible. That is why it is important that I, as Minister, and my Department try to address skills shortages and mismatches where they occur. Those can change and flip over time, and a skills shortage can become a skills glut very quickly, which is why we need constant monitoring and to challenge ourselves in that respect.

I can also give the Member an assurance that the plan will be more than simply a glossy document as far as monitoring is concerned. It is core to my Department and will be deeply embedded in its internal business plans. Indeed, whether it involves the skills directorate, senior management or the permanent secretary, there will be close tracking of our performance and delivery on all the projects set out in the plan today.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I apologise for my delay in getting to the Chamber. There was something of a roadblock on the way down. Nevertheless, here I am.

Minister, I listened intently as you outlined your plan for employer engagement. Can you tell me what role Bill McGinnis, the Department’s skills adviser, has had in the development of the strategy and why you think it is necessary to do something different, given that the Department has a skills council advising it?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Chair for his question and his ongoing interest in these activities. Bill McGinnis is the skills adviser, and I was pleased to reappoint him this year. He was central to the identification of priority skills sectors, and we continue to build on those. He has an ongoing role in liaising with employers and is very forthcoming in providing feedback. Ultimately, however, Bill McGinnis is not a delivery arm; he is an adviser and he will feed the business community’s views into the Department’s work.

Today, we are setting out the action plan and how we will build on what we are hearing from business on the particular needs of employers. We are setting out the projects that will be taken forward over the next 18 months to address the particular concerns raised and to ensure that we in Northern Ireland seize the opportunities to grow our economy over the months and years to come.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I beg to move

That the draft Labour Relations Agency Code of Practice on Time Off for Trade Union Duties and Activities be approved.

This draft code of practice is subject to approval by resolution of the Assembly as laid down in the governing primary legislation, the Industrial Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1992.

It may be helpful if I outline for Members the background to this draft code. The Labour Relations Agency (LRA) has a legal duty to provide practical guidance that clarifies when an employer should facilitate trade union representatives and members in taking time off. LRA fulfils this obligation through the publication, ‘Code of Practice: Time Off for Trade Union Duties and Activities’.

There is a substantial body of legislation that provides the right to time off for trade union duties and activities in specified circumstances. Such rights also stipulate whether there is a right to pay while conducting such duties and activities. The revised code will assist employers and trade union representatives to better understand the legislation and will help them to deal with the day-to-day issues that can arise when requests for time off are made. It also provides good practice guidance on maintaining positive relationships more generally; for example, through the development of formal agreements and the provision of facilities.

The code, in common with its predecessor, does not confer any new rights. Rather, it offers greater clarity on existing rights and promotes good practice that will help employers and trade unions more effectively to discharge their respective responsibilities. Failure to observe the code will not itself render a party liable to tribunal proceedings. However, the provisions of the code can be admissible in evidence and taken into account by an industrial tribunal during any relevant proceedings.

In these difficult times, it is also important to highlight that the new code does not incur any additional costs for employers. There are costs associated with the existing statutory framework, which already provides for time off for trade union duties and activities. The draft code imposes no new requirements that would serve to increase that financial burden.

To their credit, many employers often go beyond what the legislation requires in facilitating good industrial relations. However, the code takes a pragmatic approach in making it clear that any potential additional facilities need to be reasonable and proportionate to the particular workplace.

The current code of practice has been in place since 2004 and does not adequately reflect the significant changes that have occurred in the modern workplace. Nor does that code take account of amendments to the governing legislation that were made over the past eight years.

The Labour Relations Agency conducted a 12-week public consultation on the draft code of practice. The consultation sought views on the provision of cover and adjustment of workloads for representatives; advice for line managers of workplace representatives; advice on training and e-learning for workplace representatives; facilitating representatives who have atypical work patterns or who support employees with atypical work patterns; access to ICT equipment and the internet by representatives; the confidentiality of communications involving representatives while ensuring necessary workplace security; and the growth in non-union representation. The responses from key stakeholders demonstrated that the proposed revisions were broadly welcomed.

The draft code provides clear definitions of the various types of trade union representative and interpretation of the extent of rights afforded to them by legislation; more clarity on the calculation of pay for time off for trade union duties, particularly where various shift bonus and performance-related payments apply; guidance on the provision of cover and the adjustment of workloads for representatives; guidance relating to the impact on the modern workplace — for example, the use of ICT equipment, access to e-learning materials and arrangements involving employees and representatives on atypical work patterns; expanded guidance to parties on their mutual obligations, particularly with regard to requesting and facilitating time off while minimising the impact on business operations; advice on the confidentiality of communications between an employer and representatives and between representatives and the membership of the union; and more detailed advice on the benefits and scope of formal agreements on time off for trade union duties and activities.

LRA has also updated references in the code to take account of changes to the statutory provisions governing time off for trade union duties and activities. I am grateful to LRA for its work in revising the code and consider that it will make a significant contribution to the development of better working relationships between management and trade unions. We are in challenging times, and it is vital that we retain a focus on supporting productive workplaces through the creation of a positive employment relations culture.

I am also grateful to the Committee for Employment and Learning for its scrutiny of the draft code. I hope that I have provided the House with sufficient explanation of the purpose of the revised code of practice. I will, of course, respond in my closing remarks to any points made by Members.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

We agreed at the Committee that I would not speak on behalf of the Committee but as an individual. Nevertheless, I do not think there is anything of contention in the points that the Minister put forward. I agree with him that, in these trying times, it is appropriate that we have the best possible labour relations, and we ought to take every step to support that.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I am happy to support the proposals that are being put forward.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I am very grateful to all those Members who contributed to the debate — that is what it says in my notes anyway. In all sincerity, however, this is largely a technical matter. I appreciate the comments from Basil McCrea, in a personal capacity, I suppose, rather than as Chair of the Committee. However, what he said reflects that we need a common-sense approach to this issue, and it is in everyone’s interests that we promote a harmonious workplace, whether we are talking about businesses themselves and their performance or individual employees and their welfare. I hope that the guidance will enable us to move forward on that basis and provide everyone involved with greater clarity on the current situation in Northern Ireland.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the draft Labour Relations Agency Code of Practice on Time Off for Trade Union Duties and Activities be approved.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer will have 10 minutes in which to propose the motion and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. One amendment has been selected and published on the Marshalled List. The proposer will have 10 minutes in which to propose the amendment and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who wish to speak will have five minutes.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

I beg to move

That this Assembly notes the good work being done by further education colleges, as well as by schools; and calls on the Minister for Employment and Learning to establish a working group, comprising officials from the Department for Social Development, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, the South Eastern Regional College and the PSNI to identify ways of improving access to further education for young people experiencing health, social and housing problems by addressing any barriers that exist in these areas.

At the outset, I wish to say that we accept the Alliance Party amendment. It has been the policy of successive governments to increase the number of young people with access to training and education post-16 years of age. It is recognised that not only does the young person benefit from undertaking such training but communities benefit from an enhanced skills base that can aid economic recovery and growth.

It is my contention that although much work has been done by various agencies and educational institutions, the time has now come for a more joined-up approach to tackling the barriers that still exist to our young people achieving their full potential and contributing effectively to the economy. Many reports cite statistic after statistic on the nature of the barriers that young people face when attempting to fulfil their academic and vocational potential.

The reasons for disengagement and low achievement are varied. They range from poverty and deprivation, to being in our care system, to getting involved in crime. Therefore, it is important that all agencies that have an interest in addressing those issues, or a statutory duty to help to reduce them, are involved in creating any possible solutions.

It is important to remember that in the vast majority of cases, young people do not face one barrier in isolation. Very often, a number of barriers are present. It is also the case that, at times, one barrier can lead to another. Often, young people who are not in education, employment or training (NEET) after compulsory education has ended will not be the first in their family to have disengaged. Often, the legacy of failure to fulfil potential is not down to lack of ambition but to numerous factors, which then become a self-fulfilling prophecy for a young person.

It is often said that the early years are the most important in an individual’s life. Often, lessons and beliefs gained in those formative years remain with us throughout life, and, for some, factors can impact on our health and other outcomes. Poverty in those early years can have a dramatic impact on a person’s educational outcome post-16.

In the first years of primary school, the basic rules of literacy and numeracy are taught. If children fall behind at that level and the issue is not addressed, there is a good chance that they will never catch up, and that can have an impact on their educational outcome.

The 2006 ‘Effective Pre-school Provision in Northern Ireland’ report found that in the first four years of primary school, children living in deprived areas attained lower scores in numeracy and literacy and made less progress than those from more affluent areas. Although attempts are made to address that barrier through reading recovery and maths recovery programmes, limited funding means that schools have to assess who is most in need, and some children may miss out.

The home learning environment was also highlighted in the report. The partnership between the school and children’s parents/guardians is vital. How children are brought up to regard education and training will help to develop their goals and ambitions. Parents who have negative experiences of learning or are stressed about poverty and unemployment may be less likely to engage with their child or the school.

It has been found that many children raised in households in which there are long periods of unemployment internalise that environment and are more likely than children of working households to end up on benefits.

The Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust also discovered the link between children living in poverty and low academic achievement. In the current economic situation, in which more people have to live on reduced incomes, the issue needs to be addressed in a positive way. If we can engage positively with our young people, we may be able to break the cycle.

Young people with mental health issues are also a vulnerable group who are at risk of underachieving. Barnardo’s recently conducted a study that found that of a group of young people who are currently or who have recently been identified as NEET, nearly one quarter indicated that their special educational needs, learning difficulties or disabilities had prevented them from achieving at school. The two most common conditions were dyslexia and attention deficit disorder. From speaking to constituents in my area, I am aware that many fear that proposed changes to the way in which statements of special educational needs will be developed will mean that children in the future will not be able to achieve their full potential. Learning difficulties mean that an individual can be at risk from exclusion, underachievement and poor outcomes, including offending. The barrier that learning difficulties and disabilities proves to be to an individual throughout their learning lifetime has long been known, and it is important that, as elected representatives, we develop, in accordance with all stakeholders in the area, a strategy that can help individuals to become the best that they can be.

It is important that the Assembly, with all statutory and voluntary and community sector agencies, helps to mitigate the impact of adverse home life situations. An unsustainable home life can affect the resilience and emotional health of young people, which has an impact on their educational outcomes.

Research shows that a child’s emotional health at the age of 10 is a key factor in determining mental health at the age of 16 and life chances at the age of 20. Action for Children’s research shows a distinct lack of activity for children between the ages of six and 13 to develop good emotional health. Having poor emotional health, which often manifests itself through low self-esteem, makes the years between the ages of six and 13 the most important element. That is the age range when bullying and peer pressure come into play, and children can also have their first exposure to substances that are open to abuse. Combining those issues with family factors, poverty and deprivation may mean that children from such backgrounds who are already marginalised may experience a greater barrier to those positive educational and training outcomes. Research shows that some children regress in academic standards during the first two years of secondary school, with a well-documented dip in attainment, and emotional well-being scores also significantly dipping. We must all work together to help to promote good emotional health and to teach our young people that emotional health is as important as physical health.

Those are just some of the barriers to further education that young people in Northern Ireland society face in continuing their education. Some Departments have put in place a number of schemes to address those barriers. The essential skills provision and the subsequent media campaign aim to raise levels of numeracy, ICT and literacy, not only for young people who have disengaged from the learning environment but for adults. That is important. If we can encourage parents to return to get essential skills, that sends a positive message to their children and to young people that training and education have a value for them.

The South Eastern Regional College has developed a programme designed specifically to encourage disengaged adults and young people back to a learning and training environment. Adults entering those courses can help to break the cycle of poor achievement and the failure, for some people in this economy, to maximise their potential.

It is imperative that all agencies that have an interest in increasing achievement work together to develop co-ordinated programmes that will help to address the issues and barriers to achievement that many people in Northern Ireland live with. The programmes, coupled with financial packages such as the education maintenance allowance (EMA), mean that those from the most economically disadvantaged backgrounds may be encouraged to remain in education or training. However, for a large number of people who are in receipt of certain benefits or who live in hostels with inflexible hours, no amount of attractive educational programmes, training packages or small EMAs will be able to entice them into education and training. For that group of young people and adults, it is important to find a solution that will remove those barriers and give them the financial ability to live and study or ensure that they are not in danger of being on the streets should they try to increase their knowledge or skills. Lessons learned from people who survive on benefits show a reluctance to enter into short-term schemes with no discernible outcomes.

For example, programmes that place people in employment for short periods of time for a slight increase in their benefits, but with no prospects of a proper job at the end, serve only to alienate those already disengaged by seemingly reinforcing the belief that it does not matter what training or job expertise a person has, there are no full-time jobs.

The financial cost of any working group and the cost of any programmes identified will be offset by the saving and income that will come from Northern Ireland raising the level of skills on offer to potential investors. We cannot stand idly by and watch the gap between those with positive educational outcomes and those who disengage continue to grow. Action is needed to ensure that every young person in Northern Ireland has the ability and opportunity to become the best that they can.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I beg to move the following amendment. Leave out all after “working group,” and insert

“as part of a wider delivery mechanism to support the forthcoming Executive strategy for young people not in employment, education or training, comprising officials from the Department for Social Development, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, all further education colleges and the PSNI, to identify ways of improving access to further education for young people experiencing a range of personal and social barriers.”

I welcome the support for the amendment. The need for the Assembly to respond to the issue in a co-ordinated and effective way cannot be overstated. The most recent Labour Force Survey showed that 48,000 of our young people could be classified as being not in education, employment or training. That figure is one that we have heard in the House before and one that, I am sure, everyone would agree is deeply worrying, considering the ongoing economic forecasts.

As the Employment and Learning Committee inquiry into NEETs recommended in 2010, any strategy for Northern Ireland should be based on structures that cement partnership, co-operation and co-ordination between all Executive Departments, other agencies and bodies and stakeholder groups, including the business community, schools, universities and colleges. The report made it clear that a multiagency and cross-departmental approach has to become the accepted way to work if we are to tackle this issue but also that individual bodies should provide oversight of the development and implementation of the strategy. The Committee report suggested that OFMDFM would be the Department best placed to perform that role. To that end, the Employment and Learning Committee inquiry advocated that the core of any NEETs strategy must involve Executive Departments looking beyond their own remit towards greater collaboration, along with community and voluntary groups, which can also be guilty, at times, of focusing on their own important challenges and not regarding themselves as part of a wider framework in which they engage and share work with others. A joined-up approach is, therefore, essential in this area.

I believe that the Alliance Party’s amendment to the motion is to be supported. It makes it clear that the establishment of any working group containing all the stakeholders mentioned should look to improve access to further education for young people with social barriers but that must be integrated into a wider delivery mechanism, supporting a full Executive approach to the delivery of the NEETs strategy.

The work that colleges do in this regard should be recognised. Schemes such as Training for Success, Essential Skills and Skills for Work have helped give young people the skills needed to break into the workplace. In addition, we should recognise the advice and encouragement colleges provide in recruiting young people to their institutions and the hard-working staff in those organisations.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

We have sat down as a party and discussed the amendment, but it is difficult to support it. Everything that it says is right, with the exception that you are asking us to support an amendment before people have had sight of the Executive strategy for young people —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Can the Member turn to the mic so that the whole House can hear?

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Sorry. I am just raising the point that it is difficult to support the amendment when people have not had sight of the Executive strategy for young people, which is the total emphasis of the amendment.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for that intervention. The strategy referred to is the NEETs strategy, on which consultative work has been completed.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

It does not say that.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Well, that is the strategy being referred to.

We should recognise the good work being done in colleges. Recently, I attended the South Eastern Regional College and saw first-hand on that visit the exceptional work being done in this area. The NRC and the BMC have been awarded the Frank Buttle Trust charter mark for innovative, proactive work in helping young people from a care background gain access to further and higher education. The colleges’ good work is to be recognised, and it was highlighted in a recent evidence session to the Committee, which confirmed that our colleges deliver education and training to one in three of all 16- to 17-year-old school leavers involved in partnerships at local learning community level.

Colleges have a very important part to play. I agree with the call in the motion to improve access to further education for young people facing multiple barriers, and I encourage the House to support the motion, as amended, and, indeed, the positive collaboration that is needed to improve education, training and employment outcomes for young people in Northern Ireland.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

With the Speaker’s permission, I will speak for a few minutes as Chair, and then I will offer some points on an individual basis.

First, the Committee is greatly exercised by the plight of people who are NEET. In fact, the amendment and the motion mention that there has been a report. We have looked to see what we can do. Sadly, we do not seem to have been able to make much of an impression on that. The Committee brought a motion to the Assembly to urge people to make sure that this is not missed off the agenda. No doubt the Minister will take an opportunity to reflect on that.

Secondly, there is the overall issue of the skills agenda. We need to make sure that, whatever structures come out in the future, we have some interaction on how we develop a skills agenda that people will buy into. The most compelling problem, I think, is that the people whom we are most keen to get hold of are those who are least interested in schooling or in getting skills, potentially because of challenges in the parental home or some other societal issues. That is why it is interesting from a Committee point of view that we look at having a joined-up approach on the matter. The Committee welcomes the House’s debate on this important issue, but we are not sure what the future structures will be to take it forward.

I will make a few observations now as an MLA and a member of the Committee nevertheless. It is interesting that the motion highlights the South Eastern Regional College. I am not sure why one college in particular is identified, although, of course, it has a significant campus in Lisburn. All the colleges that I am aware of do really good work in this area. It seems to me that the motion has, perhaps, drifted a wee bit from its original intention. The colleges are particularly adept at looking after students who are in their care. They bring forward pastoral care. The real challenge here is to make sure that people who go to college do not drop out. There are multiple challenges for young people; everything from teenage pregnancies to trouble at home to somebody melting their head. There are real issues.

I had occasion to go to the Southern Regional College to have explained to me the system that it has. I have to tell you, Mr Speaker, that I was completely surprised and in awe of the amount of work that the dedicated staff do. They check attendances and make sure that people turn up. If they do not turn up, they want to know why. I think some of them might even go beyond their remit a wee bit and phone people at home and ask them why they are not going to be in college. That attitude makes the difference for all the colleges, and it should be built on. However, there is an issue before that, and I think the Member who moved the motion mentioned it. When you look at NEETs, you can see that the key issue is that the most fundamental stage for disengagement is when the young person is aged between 14 and 16. You can see that the majority of people stop going to school at that stage. In fact, my colleague Mr Roy Beggs identified that there are about four or five wards in Northern Ireland with absence rates in excess of 40%. The simple fact is this: if you do not go to school, there is nothing the school can do about it. We need to find ways of identifying those people and how we might engage with them.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Does the Member agree that a lot more needs to be done in the early years with regard to prevention so that the colleges are not spending their money and resources on providing basic literacy and numeracy skills to our young people? Does he agree that the education system fails far too many of our children?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an extra minute.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I know that, when Mrs Kelly was Chair of the Committee, she would have looked at this, and I have no doubt that she will make a contribution to the debate. We do not have time to cover the whole issue in five minutes. However, I can roll it back to say that we need to get engagement at as early an age as possible. Teachers at nursery schools can identify children — even those at the age of four — who are likely to struggle throughout the rest of their life. The key point that we should look at is that there are very many areas where young people touch our organisations, be they the PSNI, nurseries, schools or some other organisation, and yet we do not seem to pick them up in some form of safety net. That is the key issue that we want to address.

I will not detain the House because I know that other Members want to speak. However, there is a key issue: if we are going to remove DEL, that does not remove the need to concentrate on the issues that the Department is focusing on, particularly skills, our young people and those who are not in education, employment or training. Those areas need some type of formal assessment and some way of bringing things together. I am not sure what that structure should be, but I am absolutely clear that we need some sort of structure or those people will be consigned to the waste bin.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The motion says most of the right words about how we improve access to further education for young people who, because of social factors, find barriers in their way. Although I have no problem with the formation of a working group to deal with the issue, I have a problem with the restrictive nature of the motion. For one, it excludes the Department of Education. Most of what has been said in the debate has referred to the underachievement of young people, the educational attainment of 14- to 16-year-olds, and people opting out of education. That all has to do with the Department of Education, and the motion does not state what role it should play.

If the proposer of the motion had explained the logic behind it, I might have understood the rationale behind why the south-eastern region was the only area mentioned in it. I say that not because I believe that that area does not need attention focused on it but because I represent an area that has a serious housing shortage, major health problems and crime statistics that are mind-blowing. It also has serious problems with young people of 11 years and over who have opted out of the system, which, I may add, has let them down.

I recently presented certificates to young people in their mid-teens who had tapped into a vibrant community network in the area. Those young people had been let down by the system, but the local community education project saw the potential in those young people and helped them through courses. At the end of those courses, they received the equivalent of GCSEs.

I also attended meetings with DSD and DEL. We came together to discuss their proposals to cut grants to a local group that has provided training for hundreds of people, young and old, over several years. The reason given to the group was not that it provided poor training — in fact, the opposite was the case — but that the Departments believed the training could be provided by one of the formal training agencies. In an attempt to deny the local community training organisation that minor funding, they denied people who had dropped out of the system the opportunity to get the training they required to at least put them on a level playing field when searching for work. I explained to DSD and DEL that most of the people who attended the course ranged from their late teens to their 40s. The difficulties being placed in the way by Departments are fairly typical. They are inflexible and adopt a teacher/pupil approach to the delivery of resources and services. The people who attended those courses will probably just drop off the chart. Who will be the losers? I have to say that it will be all of us.

As a new member of the Employment and Learning Committee, I have listened to officials speak about those not in education, employment or training. The very groups that I have mentioned were set up to help those NEETs. The area where that took place is one of the most socially deprived in the North, and it comes top in almost all the barometers of poverty and social deprivation. I would have no difficulty supporting the formation of a working group if it were widened to take in other areas of the North and not selectively zero in on one area. I agree that education is the key for young people, but training also has a major part to play in preparing people for employment.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I will be happy to cover the points in my own comments later on, but it may be helpful at this stage to stress that the Department of Education is central to the development of any strategy around NEETs. My Department may well lead on that, but we do so on behalf of a number of Departments, and the Department of Education is central. Placing the framework of the motion within the context of what the Executive will do about NEETs and wider activities around children and young people will hopefully address the concerns that the Member has and ensure that it is an inclusive process and all the right people are at the table.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member will have an extra minute added to his time.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I appreciate what the Member has said, but the fact is that the Department of Education has been left out of the amendment. Nobody has stood up and said why. Most of the debate this morning has taken place around young people between the ages of 14 and 16, who fit in to the brief of the Department of Education.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I appreciate the request for clarification. The amendment aims to ensure that every relevant Department and the full remit of colleges are included. The amendment states:

“as part of a wider delivery mechanism to support the forthcoming Executive strategy for young people not in employment, education or training”.

That wider delivery mechanism, of course, includes the Department of Education as a key delivery partner — [Interruption]. Well, there are other Departments that are not listed.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Let us not have a debate across the Chamber. Allow the Member to continue.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I hope that that clarifies the issue: the wider delivery mechanism includes the Education Department.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

It quite clearly does not include the Department of Education, and I am asking why. What I have got up to now is excuses.

If we are serious about bringing down the barriers that stop people accessing further education, we also need to look at how policies are delivered from within Departments. It is not good enough to say that there are health, social and housing reasons that prohibit young people from taking up education or training. Did we ever think that the people who deliver the policies may also have got it wrong? Any working group needs to have a holistic approach that covers external and internal procedures, with recommendations to put it right. This is in no way a criticism of further education colleges. I know many young people who have attained the skills and education to move on to employment.

We cannot look at these issues without mentioning the impact that welfare reform legislation will have.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member’s time is almost up.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Housing Rights Service has predicted a huge rise in repossessions, and many other young people will be affected by the introduction of the shared room allowance.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member’s time is up.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I should have had an extra two minutes there.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

The SDLP welcomes the motion and the amendment. The early part of the motion refers to further education colleges, and I think the contribution that the colleges in Northern Ireland make in the development of young people across all sectors is clear.

For the record, I understand Members raising the issue of young people not in education, employment or training. It has exercised the minds of members of the Employment and Learning Committee for a considerable time now, as the Chair said. We get frustrated and angry with departmental officials because of the slowness of the process for bringing forward the strategic objectives and plan that the Minister referred to. I am aware that he intends to brief the Committee over the next two weeks.

I think it is reasonable, on the point made by Fra McCann, not to name the Department of Education. The Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister is not named either. It has a clear role around children and young people. The spirit of the motion is that there is a need. We had robust exchanges last week with departmental officials about the dozens of cross-departmental collaborative groups that are in motion, but it has taken a long time for this Department to formalise an Executive approach in dealing with young people not in education, employment or training.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Does the Member agree that it is important that the views expressed by the Committee are taken on board by the Executive and the Minister, about both NEETs and the development of a skills strategy?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has an added minute.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I agree totally with the Member; his initial comments were right. The NEETs issue has exercised every member of the Employment and Learning Committee for the past two years, under the stewardship of the current Chairman and under my colleague Dolores Kelly before that. The Committee carried out an exhaustive inquiry into NEETs. We went on study visits to look at models of best practice, not just in Northern Ireland but in Wales and Scotland.

I get angry maybe not so much with the Minister but with the Department for not coming forward or being seen to come forward with a mechanism enabling young people to have a greater role in society. I just do not see it, Minister, I really do not. We had a debate on the subject here two or three weeks ago in which Members from every party participated. However, the Minister made no reference to any of the contributions made by Members. He came in with a prepared script. We still await the Minister’s strategy, although I understand that we will get it.

I feel that, at times, we collectively — I say this as a criticism of ourselves — let young people down, both as a group and individually. We saw the NEETs scoping study. There is a common factor running through that and many variables in every case. Other Members referred to that, and I can understand Fra getting uptight.

The proposer of the motion spoke well about primary school and post-primary school. Although it is necessary for the Minister for Employment and Learning to lead on the matter — he must take a much stronger lead than at present — other Departments such as DE, DHSSPS, DSD and OFMDFM need to come forward. The Committee heard from Include Youth and other groups about how marginalised young people are when they come out of care or prison. It is necessary, therefore, to involve other statutory agencies, which is why the PSNI was also referenced.

The issues have to be dealt with through a clearly defined, objective cross-departmental approach, but that has not happened. Why has it not happened, Minister? The Department has stated its intention to set it up, but when will it be set up? The Department has the lead on it. We get so frustrated. The Committee spent time exhaustively putting together an inquiry. This is the third time within a short period that NEETs has been discussed in the Chamber, but we do not see any action plan coming out the other end. The Minister may say later that he needs to discuss that with the Executive first, but he must come to the House and explain his intention to all of us.

Over 40,000 young people across Northern Ireland are not in education, employment or training. With welfare reform coming in, a further tsunami of young people who may be caught in a benefits culture will be forced to seek employment, education or training. What is being done? Tens of thousands of people are migrating from social security to employment and learning programmes. It is important that the Minister shares with us his intentions and says how he will facilitate young people and help them to become more active in a training or work environment.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I support the motion and the amendment. As our motion states, the issue also concerns the work of further education colleges. It is important to mention the excellent work of colleges such as Belfast Metropolitan College, which our Committee visited. I was a wee bit surprised that those colleges were not mentioned.

The motion also mentions ways of:

“improving access to further education for young people”.

One of the Assembly’s most encouraging initiatives and debates was on fuel poverty. We brought together the Chairs of all Committees and a range of people to look at fuel poverty cross-departmentally. The consensus was that that was a good example of people coming together and doing something about fuel poverty. Hopefully, that will continue. Our Chair, Basil McCrea, mentioned the plight —

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Will the Member give way?

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

Certainly.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Given the example of the fuel poverty initiative bringing all the Departments together, does the Member accept that the motion and the amendment are lacking, in that they do not mention the Department of Education?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Member has a minute added to his time.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

That is an important issue and is certainly something that we need to look at. The fuel poverty initiative brought the key people together. I think that that is what you are saying: key people are missing from this. Maybe we should look at that.

The Chair, Basil McCrea, talked about the plight of the most disadvantaged and most vulnerable young people in our community. If this debate is about anything, it is about recognising young people, particularly the most vulnerable in our community. Let me just quote a young person who took part in an Include Youth initiative. I feel that this really sums up today’s debate. Kelly, aged 20, said:

“When I was 12, I went into foster care, 14 when I went into a children’s home, 17 when my father died and 19 when my mum died. In 2010, I got involved with the Give and Take scheme” —

we do not support that scheme, which is another issue that I will come to —

“and it was the best thing I have ever done, because, for me, I learned a lot about the type of person I want to be and the type of person I am capable of being.”

What a statement. If we are about anything, it is about bringing that out in young people. She went on to say:

“The incentive of EMA would have been ideal for me as it would have driven me more. Why is it because I am in care I was dubbed ‘not worthy’?” —

that is a terrible indictment of us: a young person dubbed “not worthy” and made to feel such —

“That is why I started the Give and Take scheme to prove that just because you are in care doesn’t mean you are not as important as everyone else.”

Prevocational schemes, such as Give and Take, are not eligible for weekly non-means-tested education maintenance allowance. I know that we have raised the issue with the Minister and in Committee. Of course there are financial constraints. However, I would say that the most vulnerable in our community are the first people we should look at when talking about those types of scheme. It is not just about widespread schemes and education. For me, it is very much about coming together and taking a co-ordinated approach.

There are discussions at NICVA today about the welfare reform programme that is being handed down by the Westminster Government. We all know that that is coming down the track and that it will have a major negative impact on many of the most vulnerable communities. The frustrating thing is that we can do very little about most of it, although we may be able to change and adapt some of it. We have an opportunity today, because we have it in our power to do something for our young people, particularly the most vulnerable. For me, this is about getting some sort of consensus on working together with the Minister. I certainly agree with Basil McCrea on this: with the dissolution of DEL, we should make sure that this is part of the legacy for any future Department. How we treat the most vulnerable in our community is how we will be judged by society now and when it comes to election time.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Business Committee has arranged to meet immediately upon the lunchtime suspension. I therefore propose, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The first item of business when we return will be Question Time. We will then return to the debate, when the next Member to speak will be Barry McElduff.

The debate stood suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 12.29 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair) —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Questions 7, 8 and 10 have been withdrawn. Written answers are required.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

1. asked the Minister of Justice for an update on the terms and conditions of enhanced severance for prison officers. (AQO 1476/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

The Civil Service compensation scheme is the statutory scheme that sets out the terms and conditions for benefits that are payable to civil servants who leave on grounds of redundancy or severance. The scheme’s provisions include the immediate payment of pension; the immediate payment of the lump sum; and the immediate payment of lump sum compensation. Both the pension and the lump sum may be enhanced if the member leaves before their retirement age under the principal civil service pension scheme. In addition, the Prison Service agreed to pay compensation in lieu of notice up to a maximum of six months and an additional payment of nine months’ basic salary.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he confirm that it is lawful, ethical and desirable that his Department inserts as a condition of severance that those prison officers who will be awarded very generous golden handshakes under the scheme will not be eligible to reapply for jobs in the Prison Service? Will he bring forward regulations to prevent that from happening?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I note Mr McMullan’s concern and, indeed, that of other Members. I can simply advise him that the legal advice that I have received is that it would be discriminatory to prevent any of those who leave from applying for the new jobs that were advertised and for which the closing date was last week. I can, however, confirm that in the face of very significant potential recruitment, not one of the 151 officers who will leave service on 31 March 2012 was among around 5,000 applicants for the new posts.

Basil McCrea (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Minister, following the departure of Colin McConnell from his position of director general, can you outline how that will affect the staff exit scheme? Will you take the opportunity to explain how you intend to mitigate the loss of the person who was setting up the entire reform of the Prison Service?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

The answer to the question of how Colin McConnell’s move to Edinburgh will affect the scheme is that it will not affect it in any way at all. Colin McConnell played a vital part in setting the foundations for the reform programme, which, as the House will know, follows through on the strategic efficiency and effectiveness (SEE) programme and builds on the recommendations of the Owers team report. I want simply to pay tribute to the work that Colin McConnell did to establish that. The fact that he served so well that he was selected for, effectively, the second most senior post in prisons in the United Kingdom to return to the Scottish Prison Service — a service that is three times bigger than ours and is based in his native Edinburgh — should come as no surprise to those who have seen the good work that Colin has done. However, another team is available of people who are also doing work. Reform was not being driven entirely by Colin McConnell. I have no doubt that when I discuss the arrangements for the appointment of a new director general with the permanent secretary, we will ensure that that post is filled as soon as possible in a way that will enable the current team to continue its work.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I am not so certain that the departure of Mr McConnell, who is a very good man, is not anything other than a blow to reform. Given that the exit scheme is oversubscribed substantially, with over 500 applicants, how will the Minister manage the scheme over the next year or two?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

As I said earlier, 151 of the 544 applicants will be able to leave the service at the end of the month. Other moves will have to be managed in accordance with service’s operational needs as replacement staff in the new grades come into post. It will be an issue for the Prison Service to manage suitable numbers of staff leaving as suitable numbers are brought into post. I cannot give the operational details of that at this stage. However, I assure the House that it will be managed in a way that will provide adequate staffing to ensure that the three prisons operate properly.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

All prison officers were told that they would be allowed to leave the service with respect and dignity, yet over 300 officers have been told that their leaving date is still under consideration. I know that the Minister has touched on it, but when will he be able to provide some certainty for those officers and give them a leaving date? Many have been left devastated —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question, please.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

When will the Minister be able to give those officers a leaving date? They have been left devastated by the mismanagement of that scheme from the very beginning.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

It is easy to talk about the mismanage­ment of the scheme from the beginning. I believe that officers were told that they would be able to leave with dignity, and they are able to leave with dignity. Anyone who suggested that we could allow 544 prison officers to walk out of the gate on the same date, on 31 March, really did not grasp the reality of the situation. A total of 151 officers will leave in March. The others will be told what their leaving date is as soon as they can be told so as to maintain the operational necessities of the service.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

2. asked the Minister of Justice to outline the recent research carried out into full-body searching. (AQO 1477/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

The review of full-body imaging examined a number of areas, including the range of equipment and systems available; the manufacturers’ performance claims; the threat profile that systems are designed to address; the application of systems in a prison environment; independent operational assessments of performance and safety; maintenance and training costs; and options for the use of technology to augment or replace full-body searching in some circumstances or entirely.

Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that confidence can be placed in technology for airport security in places like Chicago, will the Minister explain why he has not yet moved to introduce similar technology for prison security in order to make full-body searches obsolete?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Doherty for his supplementary question. The answer is that we continue to work on the issue as we can. There is a difference between people travelling through airports once and those who are in prison for a significant period and who would have the opportunity, if the operation were not conducted successfully, to smuggle small quantities of inappropriate substances and build something up. I am not sure whether the kinds of machines being used in Chicago airport or in other areas of the United States would be licensed for use, in any circumstances, in the European Union or the UK.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Given that the campaign for the use of full-body imaging in prisons appears to be gaining some traction, will the Justice Minister spell out the dangers that that full-body imaging is attempting to thwart? Will he also spell out the problems that are being faced in prisons across the UK, and particularly here, given the threat that is posed by some of those in the jails?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Campbell for his question. I think that we are all aware of the threats that are posed. There is no doubt that attempts are made to smuggle in a variety of contraband materials in prisons in every part of the UK. Drugs, explosives, imitation firearms and the opportunity to build up replicas have all featured in prisons across the UK in recent years. The reality is that unless we have a system that guarantees that the technology can detect all the varieties of threats, we will not be able to ensure safety and security in the prisons by moving away from full-body searching. Moving away from full-body searching was a recommendation of the Owers report, and I am committed to implementing it. However, that must be done on the basis of maintaining the safety and security of prisoners and prison staff.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Will the Minister outline whether similar schemes have been carried out in any prisons throughout the world? If so, how successful have they been?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am grateful to Mr McCallister for his question, although in asking me to examine the situation across the world, I think that he has given me slightly more responsibility than the House has. I am not aware of any use of technology that has averted the need for full-body searching anywhere in the United Kingdom. As I informed the House previously, work is ongoing in a prison in Yorkshire on the opportunity to develop a technological solution. The Prison Service is keeping in touch with that work, and we are committed to seeing whether we can build on and use the lessons established by that research.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his replies so far. Will he acknowledge that the number one priority must be to continue to reduce the tension that exists, particularly in Roe House in Maghaberry prison? Will he report to the House on his most recent visit to Portlaoise prison and on the searching arrangements in that prison?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I appreciate that Mr Ramsey has been looking at the options over the past months. I visited Portlaoise prison a few weeks ago, as I did Birmingham a few weeks before that, to see the way in which searches are carried out. There are differences between the Portlaoise system and the system that the Northern Ireland Prison Service has, not least the presence of a company-strength detachment of the Irish defence forces in Portlaoise prison. That is not something that would be acceptable in Northern Ireland. I will discuss the details of that review, alongside the technology review, when I meet senior Prison Service officials in the coming weeks.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Before I call the next Member, I reluctantly remind Members to be brief and to focus on one question to the Minister.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

3. asked the Minister of Justice to outline the discussions between his Department and the PSNI on the arrangements for financing and retendering the managed services contract for the PSNI. (AQO 1478/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

The PSNI submitted a business case for the supply of support services to my Department for approval in December 2011, as Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP) approval is not required. The business case examines how the future delivery of the supply of support services to the PSNI will satisfy its existing and future operational needs. Existing support services provided through outsourcing include security guarding, CCTV monitoring, custody detention officers, driving services and call handling, among others. The preferred option is to contract for further support functions in addition to those, including safety camera administration, fixed penalty processing, property management, courier services, and dispatch and controller services.

The value of the contract over the initial three years is £69·3 million, with, potentially, two further contract extensions of two years each. That is an increase above the current contract, which is valued at £42·3 million over the three-year term. My officials reviewed the business case and granted initial approval for the PSNI to advertise in the Official Journal on 2 February, while finalising conditions of approval. Business case approval was granted on 24 February, subject to certain conditions linking the project to the PSNI’s efficiency savings programme.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. Will the Minister confirm that under the Police Act 1998, he has the authority to regulate such contracts? Given the huge public outcry over the rehiring of retired police officers, will he tell us what proportion of the £180 million that has been set aside will not go into that old boys’ network?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Ó hOisín for his question. However, the role of the Department is to approve the business case on the grounds of value for money and affordability; it is not involved in policy. It is for the police to determine the policy. The Policing Board’s resources and improvement committee receives regular updates on that business case. My Department does not interfere in the issue of how it is administered. That is a matter that lies solely within the responsibilities of the Police Service and the Chief Constable.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Will the Minister congratulate what has been termed as the old boys’ network for the work that it does to combat, specifically, dissident republicans and the terrorist campaign that they wish to wage? Will he comment on discussions that his Department has had with the police about strategic reserves and the need for the Police Service to have greater flexibility in how it manages its budget?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Givan for his question, but, as ever, I think that he is trying to encourage me to stray a little bit into the operational responsibilities of the police. My job is to support the resourcing of the police, not to run the Police Service. It is certainly not to interfere with the operational responsibilities of either the Chief Constable or the Policing Board. However, it is absolutely clear that the Police Service has a very difficult task to do at present in building proper neighbourhood community policing, alongside the threat that it faces. We should support the PSNI as it carries out that work.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Members should not encourage the Minister to stray from the question.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I very much encourage the Minister to give me a direct answer to the question. He said that DFP approval was not required for the business case. What is his comment on that, and does that suggest that DFP approval is an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I really think that Mr Nesbitt should ask the Minister of Finance and Personnel that question. There are certain areas in which DFP approval is required for business cases, and there are certain other areas in which it is not required. It is not required in this case.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

4. asked the Minister of Justice to outline the original scope and extent of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005. (AQO 1479/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

In 2004, the Government published a White Paper, ‘One Step Ahead: A 21st Century Strategy to Defeat Organised Crime’. The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 implemented the legislative proposals of the White Paper and established the Serious and Organised Crime Agency (SOCA). The powers contained in the legislation were for use across all law enforcement agencies: the police, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, SOCA and the UK Border Agency.

The powers contained in the 2005 Act provide law enforcement with enhanced powers of confiscation in respect of the proceeds of crime investigations. They also provide for the use of financial reporting orders, which allow the courts to impose obligations on people convicted of specified offences to report the particulars of their financial affairs. The legislation also introduced a statutory framework for the use of assisting offenders.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Thank you, Minister, for that response. Obviously, the prosecution of serious crime is a complex operation, so does the Minister believe that the legislation in place is sufficient to deal with it? If not, what does he propose to do about it?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Elliott for his supplementary question. It has not been suggested to me by any of the relevant agencies or the judiciary that there is any need to change the legislation, but, as ever, I remain open to suggestions from any quarter.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. The Minister said that none of the agencies has asked him to review the legislation. In light of the recent court case, about which, as the Minister knows, there is a lot of public concern, perhaps the time is now appropriate —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question, please.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Sorry. Is the time now appropriate to review the legislation, given the concern of the McIlwaine family about the case that the Minister cited as a paragon of virtue?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr McCartney for his question. For the benefit of the House, that issue dominated a certain amount of my discussion with the Justice Committee last week. I accept that there are Members who are unhappy with anything that they regard as supergrass legislation. I believe that what we have under the 2005 Act is very different from what happened 30 years ago. There is a clear process whereby assisting offenders are identified, prosecuted and receive an appropriately reduced sentence before proceedings are taken against others. There is also the opportunity for cases to be referred back to the courts if it is felt that assisting offenders have failed to live up to their obligations under their signed contract. It was made absolutely clear by the Director of Public Prosecutions that he has asked a senior lawyer to examine the most recent trial to determine whether the Stewart brothers complied with their obligation to give honest evidence in that case. He has made it clear that he will follow up on that, as is his responsibility.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

May I press you a bit further, Minister, given the recent controversy that Members have spoken about before? Will you detail your conversations or meetings with any of the other agencies to look at potential reform?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Since the court judgement to which Mr Eastwood refers, I have had a telephone conversation with the director. I have not discussed the issue with other agencies, but I have made it clear publicly that I am open to representation from any of them. Indeed, I have made it clear publicly that had there been anything in the judgement of the court that day, I would have been open to considering the legislation. Similarly, if the Justice Committee or any other body in this House were to put forward proposals, I would examine them seriously.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

5. asked the Minister of Justice for an update on the work of the multiagency risk assessment conference (MARAC) operational group since its inaugural meeting in September 2011. (AQO 1480/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

MARACs have been in place now for just over two years, and I believe that they have achieved a considerable amount. From their inception until the end of January this year, the 14 MARACs across Northern Ireland discussed 2,990 high-risk cases, and safety plans were put in place to protect the victims, which also involved 4,187 children.

The MARAC operational group was established on 26 September last year to ensure that a high standard of practice and a consistent approach were adopted in MARACs across Northern Ireland and to address practical delivery issues. It has met on three occasions since inception, and future meetings will be held at least quarterly.

Membership covers all key organisations involved in the strategic and operational side of MARAC. A wide range of issues have been discussed to date at the MARAC operational group meetings, which are chaired by the local domestic violence partnerships. However, I am conscious that some work remains to be implemented, and the representation at the operational group by policy officials maintains the link between the operational group and the strategic groups that have overall oversight of the MARAC initiative.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his reply. I also thank him for his help with the issues that I have brought to him on a regular basis, particularly this one. One of my concerns that he is well aware of is that even though we have had the establishment of the MARACs, the information-sharing protocol has still not been put in place. Does the Minister not feel that having that operational protocol in place is key to the delivery of this set of circumstances so that it can be of help and assistance to MARACs in that much-needed process for victims?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

It is nice to have the opportunity to thank a Member for his question and, indeed, his comments of support for the work of the Department. I will make the most of it; it does not happen often at Question Time.

Mr Storey asked specifically about the information-sharing agreement. That issue has been complex and has taken some detail to follow through. The Police Service has been taking the lead on that, and it is my understanding that the finalisation of that document is now with the MARAC operational group, so I hope that we will be able to give him a very definite answer in the near future.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

If possible, can the Minister please give me an update on his assessment of the work of the independent domestic violence advisers (IDVAs) in Northern Ireland?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Copeland for his question. Unfortunately, he has managed to put his finger on an area where progress has not been as rapid as we had hoped. The development of the business case for IDVAs has been more problematic than was at first anticipated by the funders, and there has been an examination of the existing policies across the UK to see how to make the best use of them in Northern Ireland. We are now at the stage where a procurement exercise is being taken forward together by the funding agencies, which are my Department, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and the Police Service.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I join Mr Storey in acknowledging the great opportunity that MARACs present for tackling issues and putting in place support for vulnerable children. However, will the Minister acknowledge that progress is not as speedy as it should be on the full implementation of MARACs and that it is not just the information protocols or the specific officers who Mr Copeland referred to that are still outstanding? Can the Minister assure the House that he will take a personal interest at Executive level in trying to unblock some of the unnecessary bureaucratic blockages —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

One question please.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— that have emerged?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Minister has been asked two questions; he can choose which one he answers.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

In fairness, Mr McDevitt makes a serious point, and I endeavoured in my initial response to Mr Storey to make it clear that although I believe that MARACs have been a positive story, they have not been perhaps as speedy as we would have hoped and there have been operational difficulties in bringing together the different agencies. I can, however, give him a commitment that the issue of ensuring that MARACs work well is a priority for my Department and for me, and I will ensure that we manage the system as well as we can in the future. Given the difficult issues that MARACs have to deal with and given the complexity of the arrangements between different agencies, we are committed in the Department of Justice to ensuring that they work as well as they possibly can.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

6. asked the Minister of Justice what action he is taking to tackle the problem of rural crime. (AQO 1481/11-15)

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

The forthcoming community safety strategy will support efforts to make rural communities safer through preventing and reducing rural crime. At a local level, community safety partnerships deliver initiatives in rural areas across Northern Ireland that contribute to the reduction of crime, fear of crime and antisocial behaviour. Examples of initiatives to prevent and reduce rural crime include neighbourhood watch and rural watch schemes, trailer-marking schemes, data tagging for trailer quad marking, farmer text message schemes and crime prevention advice to rural groups.

A number of events and initiatives have been held in the Member’s constituency of North Antrim, including, for example, a number of trailer-marking sessions, including in Ballymoney, Moyle and Ballymena, with another scheduled for Ballymoney later this month; a number of Construction and Agricultural Equipment Security and Registration (CESAR) tractor security-marking events across the entire North Antrim area, and another one is scheduled for Ballymoney in early April; farmer text-message schemes across the Moyle district; and a rural crime seminar held recently by police in H district in Garvagh to discuss rural crime and rural networks.

Just last week, I met the sector inspector in Ballymoney, and I heard at first hand about some of the rural crime initiatives being taken there, including an initiative called Farm Gate, which involves neighbourhood policing teams calling with farmers to glean useful information about involvement in rural crime and to provide crime prevention advice and reassurance to the farming community.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. He obviously did his homework before coming. In relation to Farm Gate, which involves police officers taking anecdotal evidence from individual farmers, what judicial use will that be, should they come up with useful information?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Swann raises a perfectly reasonable question. I am glad that he acknowledges that I did my homework, although I do it for other people as well. The reality is that the police have to act on a variety of information, some of which is intelligence of a quality suitable for criminal prosecution and some of which may simply help to build an information case that can be followed through. That is an operational decision for the police. The key issue in this case is active work by the local neighbourhood teams, engaging with farmers and addressing some of the concerns that have been current in recent weeks.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Does the Minister agree that the possible closure of some rural police stations, namely, in Dungiven and Garvagh in my constituency, could impact on possible fear of crime?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Robinson addresses the fact that there may be an issue of fear of crime. What Members need to do is address the reality of rural crime. Rural crime is not dealt with by having police officers sitting behind desks. Rural crime is addressed by the work that the Chief Constable has done in the past year or so, putting 600 officers out on the streets in response teams and neighbourhood teams. That is the best way of achieving it. Of course, the decision as to which stations are required for operational reasons is for the Chief Constable, and the decision on disposal of unused stations is one for the Policing Board.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Does the Minister not recognise that the present proposal for the wholesale closure of rural police stations is sending out the wrong message — a message of encouragement to the perpetrators of rural crime and a message of discouragement to their victims? Having officers stationed behind a desk 20 or 30 miles away is little comfort to those who are the subject of the present outbreak.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Could we have the question, please?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Does he not agree that having officers stationed 20 or 30 miles away behind a desk is a source of great annoyance and discomfort to the victims of those crimes?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I think the greatest comfort we can have for our people is that which I highlighted earlier — the Chief Constable putting 600 officers out on the streets.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Does he recognise that rural crime is largely concentrated on the theft of tractors, diggers and farm machinery in general? Given that that is a major problem in parts of County Derry and County Tyrone, is any consideration being given to an expansion of the rural neighbourhood scheme?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Byrne for what is an entirely reasonable question, but it is not an issue for me as Minister, although I understand that the issue is being followed up actively by the police in a number of districts. That is why I highlighted, for example, the text messaging service that feeds into a neighbourhood watch scheme that is being administered in Moyle district. Where incidents arise or there are suspicions, the police have the capacity to inform a large number of rural dwellers by a simple text message to look out for issues of particular concern. That kind of thing shows good work and a different way of doing it in rural areas to what would have been a traditional neighbourhood watch in an urban or suburban area.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Questions 1 and 3 have been withdrawn and require a written answer.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

2. asked the Minister for Regional Development to outline the traffic restrictions that could be put in place under the Road Traffic Regulation (NI) Order 1997 to ensure that the existing character of a road and adjacent historical properties is protected from heavy vehicular traffic. (AQO 1492/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

My Department’s Roads Service has advised that, under article 4 of the Road Traffic Regulation (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, the Department may make an order that prevents the use of the public road by vehicular traffic of a kind or in a manner that is unsuitable having regard to the existing character of the road or adjoining property. However, my officials further advise that, when considering the introduction of a prohibition in respect of heavy vehicles, they must have due regard to the availability of a suitable alternative route and the potential impact on local businesses.

In practice, it has been found that, in many cases, no alternative route is deemed suitable for larger vehicles, for example, on narrow rural roads or residential streets. It has also been found that, on occasions, businesses that are located along the road may be wholly dependent on larger vehicles being able to access their premises directly for delivery or distribution purposes. Prohibiting such vehicles could prevent those businesses from operating. In addition, heavy traffic may already be using the most appropriate route, and, if diverted, issues associated with that traffic could transfer from one road to another. As a consequence, Roads Service generally explores other options that could lead to voluntary control, including the improvement of existing directional signage and the erection of additional advisory signage to guide large and heavy commercial vehicles away from the area; the establishment of a preferred route network for large heavy commercial vehicles; and seeking the co-operation of lorry operators and/or transport agencies with a view to reaching agreement on possible routes and times of operation.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he assure the House that, where roads and adjoining historical and listed buildings come under threat from heavy vehicular traffic of a certain kind, he will do all in his power to ensure that the appropriate means are put in place to preserve and protect those buildings from damage?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the honourable lady for her question. She has been in regular correspondence and meetings with me on the issue, particularly in and around Hillsborough. I assure you that Roads Service will give every consideration to ameliorating and dealing with heavy vehicular traffic. She and other elected representatives for that area are aware of the particular and peculiar issues in respect of Hillsborough village. We continue to look at those issues to see what measures we can bring forward.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Does the Minister have any plans to review criteria for all traffic-calming measures in built-up areas? I think specifically of small villages such as Kilskeery in County Tyrone.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Kilskeery in County Tyrone has severe problems — [Laughter.] It has the honour of being represented by Mr McElduff, which is a disadvantage from the start. I need to be careful because there are cost implications of introducing such changes. There is a well-designated system by which traffic-calming measures are assessed. If the Member wishes to correspond with me directly to try to address the issues surrounding Kilskeery, I am happy to look at anything that we can do to improve the situation.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Is the Minister or the Department considering bringing in new speed restrictions, particularly in major towns that may have more pedestrians and cyclists than in the past?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Traffic-calming cases are done on an individual area, town or village basis. My officials will actively look at whether improvements are necessary and at what stage we can bring them forward. I assure the Member that we are encouraging other modes of transport, including cycling and perhaps walking, to encourage people to lead a healthier lifestyle and to be less reliant on cars and vehicles.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

4. asked the Minister for Regional Development what action his Department is taking to prevent the theft of street lighting cables, particularly in rural areas. (AQO 1494/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his question. The theft of street lighting cables is an abhorrent and dangerous activity that must be condemned by all right-thinking people. Contrary to the opinion of some, it is not a victimless crime, and it shows a flagrant disregard for elderly and other vulnerable individuals who are likely to be inconvenienced when street lighting is not functioning. My Department’s Roads Service is liaising closely with the PSNI to assist in the investigation of street lighting cable thefts, and I urge all members of the public with any information on such activities to bring it to the attention of the PSNI.

Roads Service has introduced measures aimed at combating this crime. Among the steps taken to date, it has changed the way new street lighting cables are laid to make them more difficult to steal. In addition, cables at certain locations have been marked with special smart DNA grease that allows stolen cables to be identified. Roads Service has also investigated the possible use of CCTV monitoring and remote alarm systems to protect cable installations. However, those options have proved to be prohibitively expensive for widespread use. My officials will continue to engage with the PSNI and take appropriate measures to prevent further cable thefts.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that it is a case of the sooner that legislation is brought forward to regulate scrap metal dealers and make it easier for the police to trace who is committing this heinous crime the better?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

That is a helpful suggestion that I am happy to take on board and on which, perhaps, I will consult Executive colleagues on how best to progress. It is unacceptable that so many such incidents — 76 separate incidents in total — have resulted in street lighting cable thefts. It is not a victimless crime, and anyone with any information should inform the PSNI. Roads Service officials will continue to work with the PSNI. The Member’s suggestion is helpful, and I will explore methods of achieving it.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

The Minister will be aware that not only cabling, but grills, manhole covers and anything that can be broken up, cut down or stolen is being removed. Does he agree that the wider issue of metal theft is a cross-cutting issue in the Executive? In light of that, will he — to echo what my colleague has just said — encourage the Environment Minister and the Justice Minister to consider legislating to make it easier to trace those involved in the business of stolen scrap metal —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I am sure that the Minister has got the gist of your question.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

— and to reduce the potential for profit from dealing in stolen metal?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

The point has been amplified by the Member’s comments, and I will seek to co-operate and liaise with Executive colleagues, initially though discussions. I can tell the House that the cost of replacing the stolen cables and repairing the associated damage is estimated to be in the region of £330,000, so it is a serious issue. The scrap value of the stolen cables is substantially less than the replacement costs. It represents a challenge, and I and my officials — I hope in conjunction with other Departments, Ministers and their officials — can look at measures to address all issues of theft. It is public property that is being stolen, and the taxpayer is expected to underwrite those costs.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Can the Minister give us a geographical breakdown of the locations of the thefts? He mentioned a figure of 76: I could probably take him to 76 lamp posts in Derry that have been attacked. A geographical breakdown would be great.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

We will not ask for a DNA readout from the Member. That was a joke, by the way, just in case the Justice Minister is in any way interested.

There have been 76 cases, as I said, mostly in the northern and western divisions. There have been around 61 cases in the northern division of Roads Service and 15 in the western division. Clearly, it represents a serious challenge. I am happy to say that neither the eastern nor southern divisions have been affected to date. I am always cautious about giving out such information because it is not only law-abiding people who watch ‘Stormont Live’ or see these debates. It is an issue that we will concentrate on in the areas most affected at this point. Any assistance that the Member and his colleagues can give will be greatly appreciated.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

5. asked the Minister for Regional Development whether he can give an assurance that an upgrade of the A26 and a decoupled Dungiven bypass will be included in his Department’s business case for the development of roads. (AQO 1495/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I can advise the Member that the business case for a major roads project is provided on an individual basis and evolves as a scheme is developed. The final business case is normally compiled when a scheme has been defined, following the public inquiry process, and is submitted to the Department of Finance and Personnel for approval, prior to moving to the construction stage. That is in accordance with the process agreed with DFP.

As the Member is aware, I have reviewed spending priorities across my Department, and I am pleased that sufficient funding has been allocated to allow me to bring forward a balanced programme of improvements to our strategic road network that will make a significant difference to the people of Northern Ireland. I can assure the House that development work will continue on the A26 Glarryford to A44 Drones Road dualling, the A6 Randalstown to Castledawson scheme and the A6 Londonderry to Dungiven scheme. However, delivery of those projects will be determined by the investment strategy for Northern Ireland 2011-2021, on which consultation recently concluded.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister. As both projects will greatly enhance access to the north-west and north coast of Northern Ireland, does the Minister agree that both schemes will benefit our tourist industry and infrastructure and will encourage more inward investment in both areas?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question, and I acknowledge the benefits that both the A6 and a scheme such as the A26 would bring in economic terms for the movement of goods and services and for tourism, especially with so many events taking place later this year and next in the north-west. However, I must remind the Member that all those things are subject to available finance. As roads Minister, I want to promote the opportunities that we have to assist the construction industry, and the recent announcement of the expenditure of half a billion pounds on a balanced programme of road schemes across Northern Ireland has helped to do that. However, I also look to the investment strategy for future opportunities to bring forward projects such as those the Member raised.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the Minister confirm that development work will be in place for the provision of a park-and-ride scheme in Dungiven before any announcement of the A6 Dungiven bypass?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I know that he has consistently lobbied for the Dungiven bypass in particular. I very much hope that, as part of any strategic improvement, issues such as park-and-ride facilities will be factored into the equation. We will continue to progress all the schemes along with the draft statutory orders being published and last December’s environmental statement for the Londonderry to Dungiven section of road. We will move those on as far as we can. Again, however, available finance will be a key issue, and I cannot ignore that reality. I very much hope that all sections of the House, every party and all Members will bear that in mind as we move forward to consider the ISNI document and proposals.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Will the Minister update the House on the progress of the public inquiry into the proposed A55 Knock Road upgrade?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his interest in that ongoing matter. Again, finance will be a big factor in the eventual outcome. Nevertheless, we are seeking to move forward all the statutory processes to be in a position to have that, along with other schemes, ready on the grid for progress.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

6. asked the Minister for Regional Development what training traffic wardens receive in relation to implementing the legislation they are enforcing. (AQO 1496/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Traffic attendants are employed by NSL Services Group, the private company currently contracted by Roads Service to provide parking enforcement and car park management services. Roads Service has advised that all traffic attendants undergo induction training that covers all aspects of their role and includes instruction on the legislation under which they operate. Initial training is followed up by on-site training with an experienced traffic attendant and a three-month probation period.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his reply. May I urge him to ask NSL to be sensitive and use discretion where necessary in its training of traffic wardens? At times, the law is strictly enforced but without any discretion to, for example, the elderly and those who may be disabled. I emphasise that to you. There is the egregious example of a Blood Transfusion Service van that was parked outside —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Is there a question, please?