Northern Ireland Assembly, 26 June 2012

357 contributions from 82 members. The official report.

Ministerial Statements

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the publication of the refreshed Protect Life suicide prevention strategy and the importance of cross-departmental involvement and ministerial leadership in its delivery.

On 31 May 2012, the Executive endorsed and approved the publication of the refreshed Protect Life strategy. The original strategy was published in October 2006 and was initially due to run until 2011. At the request of the suicide strategy implementation body, it was subsequently agreed to refresh and extend the strategy to the end of the 2013-14 financial year, the aim being to maintain the momentum in addressing suicide prevention and develop further actions based on our learning from implementing the Protect Life strategy to date. Independent overall evaluation of Protect Life is being taken forward during 2012. The findings from that evaluation will help to inform the development of the next phase of suicide prevention policy from 2014 onwards.

When discussing suicide statistics, we must never forget that every death leaves a heartbroken family and many unanswered questions. Having experienced the sense of devastation felt by families and communities bereaved by suicide, I have made suicide prevention one of my top priorities. It is, therefore, important from the outset that I record my appreciation for the central role that bereaved families and local communities have played in the development and ongoing implementation of Protect Life. Their courage in the face of such personal tragedy is truly inspirational.

A lot has happened since Protect Life was published in October 2006, not least the increase in funding to support the implementation of the strategy, which now stands at almost £7 million per annum. Progress made has included the establishment of the Lifeline crisis response service, local research on suicide, suicide-prevention training and joint departmental working, such as the collaboration between my Department and the Department of Education on the development of a pupils’ emotional health and well-being programme. Despite these programmes and a very high level of commitment across statutory and community sectors, the Northern Ireland suicide rate remains stubbornly high at around 15 to 16 deaths per 100,000 of our population. This has been the case since 2006, following an unprecedented increase in suicide rates over 2005 and 2006 when recorded suicide rates almost doubled those in the earlier part of the decade.

I believe that the introduction of more robust recording processes following the restructuring of the coroner’s office in 2004 partially explains this, and that the current figures are a true reflection of the actual suicide rate in Northern Ireland. In essence, there was probably under-reporting prior to 2005 and although our high rate of suicide is unwelcome, it is better to have an accurate picture of what is happening than to be working with artificially low figures.

The bottom line is that almost 300 people a year are dying by suicide, which is almost six times the number of deaths due to road traffic accidents. Tragically, some families have lost more than one close relation to suicide, and the burden of suicide impacts more on certain areas and among certain groups. The suicide rate is twice as high in deprived areas and males are three times more likely than females to die by suicide. Young males in deprived areas are particularly vulnerable, as are marginalised groups such as those who are unemployed or people with mental illness and addiction problems.

The refresh of Protect Life has drawn on learning from a wide range of sources, including a review of international evidence-based best practice; local research; evaluation of component parts of the strategy; and engagement with community groups. Recurring themes from these sources include the need for training for front line service providers; an enhanced focus on addressing deliberate self-harm; the use of IT communications to reach younger people; a greater focus on males from deprived areas; and proactive outreach in mental health services.

These issues are picked up in the refreshed strategy. For example, while maintaining the original strategy’s long-term goal of reducing suicide rates in Northern Ireland, the refreshed Protect Life strategy sets a new aim of reducing:

“the differential in the suicide rate between deprived and non-deprived areas”.

With a marked differential in suicide rates between deprived and non-deprived areas, particularly for males in the 15 to 45 age group, I believe that reducing this differential has the best potential to save lives.

It is widely accepted that suicide is a societal issue and that no single Department can tackle this issue on its own. Enhanced cross-departmental working is vital. I have met other Ministers regularly over the past year to explore how other Departments can play a greater role in suicide prevention and I have been struck by my colleagues’ willingness to be involved. There is definitely now a greater impetus for a cross-government and cross-agency approach to suicide prevention.

An enhanced cross-departmental approach is reflected in the revised strategy, which contains a number of new actions falling to Departments other than the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. These include involving sporting organisations in delivering positive mental health and well-being messages, identifying specific arts interventions that improve mental health, and providing community-based health checks in rural areas. The ministerial co-ordination group has an important role in ensuring that suicide prevention is a priority for all relevant Departments. I aim to ensure that regular meetings of the ministerial co-ordination group are held to drive forward cross-departmental working on the prevention of suicide and self-harm.

A reduction in suicide will continue to be a major challenge, particularly against a backdrop of increasing economic hardship and high levels of deprivation. The refreshed Protect Life strategy provides the strategic direction for our combined efforts over the next two years.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister’s statement. It would be childish of me not to welcome the fact that we have got to the point of receiving it.

The Minister has highlighted the number of people who die by suicide every year and the impact that that has, not only on families but on communities. That should not be underestimated. I commend the work that takes place daily in our areas. Without it, the reality is that we would be looking at higher figures and statistics. The Minister mentioned the commitment of other ministerial colleagues. I welcome that; I have seen that commitment. Over the past number of weeks, I met a number of Ministers, including the First Minister and deputy First Minister. I met them because, despite all the rhetoric about suicide and self-harm and it being a target and a focus, the ministerial subgroup has not met in 18 months. I do not want to sound too negative; I welcome the statement today and I welcome the commitment of not only the Health Minister but other Ministers. However, the fact that the subgroup has not met in 18 months does not send out the clear message that this is a priority for the Executive.

Although the refreshed strategy is to be welcomed, will you, Minister, give us an idea of what the agenda will be for the ministerial meeting this week? How often will the group meet? Can we have regular updates? The funding for the Protect Life strategy is being extended. Does that mean that new groups that might be formed in the wake of an incident in local areas or new fresh ideas that we gather through research cannot access the current funding?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

There are a number of issues. When I came into office last year, I met quite a number of groups that were involved in suicide. We hosted a conference to bring together all the groups. One of the things that I observed at quite an early point was that an awful lot of people wanted to assist in preventing suicide and self-harm and an awful lot of people had suffered themselves and did not want others to suffer. So many people wanted to help and to get involved, but sometimes it did not have the focus that it should have had, so we brought together all the groups to see whether we could get a better working relationship and a better understanding of what needed to be done.

I have met all the Ministers in bilateral meetings to discuss suicide and what more we can do to meet the issues. As you rightly indicated, the joint ministerial working group will meet this week. At that meeting, we will discuss things such as how we deal with this in the media. Is it something that we wish to highlight through a fairly strong and vociferous advertising campaign? We have been working very closely with the Scottish, who went down that route. Although it could not be described as empirical, the evidence that the Scots have gathered thus far indicates that that has been a positive campaign. We will look at all those things and seek to address them, and we will consider how we, as Departments, can come together and work together. The Department of Agriculture and Rural Development will be involved in the group from here on in, which I welcome.

We identified around £7 million for Protect Life. That is well ahead, in respect of funding per head of population, of any other part of the UK. We remain committed to that. I want to ensure that funding is well spent and that we do not give out funding for the sake of appeasing a group here or there. The Member represents the Colin area. Very good work has gone on in that area. As we all know, that was a cluster of suicide; we heard about it all the time. Thankfully, in the past year, we are aware of only two incidents of suicide. That is two too many, but, thankfully, that is a massive reduction in what went on heretofore. That is a demonstration of where things are working well. We need to look at where people are making the best impacts, learn from that and invest in that.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

I would be interested to hear the Minister’s assessment of the role of the internet in the very worrying trend of suicides and whether he believes that the strategy will deal with that issue.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The internet is a very powerful tool. It can be a really good thing, but sometimes it can be a really bad thing. For example, it is useful for promoting support, awareness-raising and signposting. Groups such as the National Union of Students and the Union of Students in Ireland use it to reach out to students, which is good. Lifeline operates a website, and the Public Health Agency maintains the Minding Your Head website. However, social networking sites have the potential for negative outcomes. Vulnerable people are often bullied on the internet, and some sites promote self-harm and suicide. There is also the potential for those sites to be used for memorials when someone takes their own life. That is a concern, as those often attract inappropriate tributes that diminish the finality of suicide and almost create a temporary cult status around the deceased that may encourage others to engage in copycat behaviour. We all know that the copycat effect of suicide among young people is very significant. The Member represented Ballynahinch for many years when it was part of South Down. Over that period, a number of copycat suicides took place in that small town, which caused huge consternation, shock and devastation in that community.

We need to make best use of the internet and seek to clamp down on those inappropriate uses. The UK Council for Child Internet Safety was established to help to protect children from exposure to potentially harmful content on the internet and in video games, which is useful given that there are those who promote suicide. Much is being done in respect of the internet. We need to ensure that we continue to make best use of it and, where possible, clamp down on episodes of it being used inappropriately.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

Like colleagues, I welcome the statement and the changes to, and refresh of, the strategy. Does the Minister agree with me that it is important that we continue with a robust evaluation of this at all times and that we should never be afraid to change something that is proven to be an ineffective intervention and change direction? This is simply too important to not get it right.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I fully agree with the Member. Evaluation needs to be robust in the first place. On occasions, we need to say to people that, while they are well-meaning, absolutely genuine and have been working very hard, what they have been doing does not actually work and is not a good use of their time or our money. That is what evaluation is about. It is about identifying what is best, what does not work well and investing in what works well in respect of both our staff’s time and our own finances.

The initial findings of the evaluation were that community engagement in the delivery of the strategy has been very strong. It is obvious that there is huge community support for reducing the incidence of suicide. Work under Protect Life has helped to reduce the stigma attached to suicide and raise awareness of suicide. The evaluation found that there is a need for greater clarity of roles and responsibilities. Evidence on the impact of Lifeline is needed. We need more robust evaluation of Lifeline and its work. There is a need to balance innovation and evidence. It was found that there were too many actions, so those need to be reclassified and streamlined somewhat. There remains a perception that suicide is a health issue. Suicide needs to be contained within a wider range of departmental strategies. It is important that other Ministers are able to identify their role in suicide prevention within their strategies.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I am sure that the House will join me in expressing our shock, sorrow and condolences to the family of 37-year-old Christopher Stokes, who was found hanged in Maghaberry prison yesterday and, unfortunately, despite the best efforts of staff, did not survive. What steps are being taken in the prison population to ensure that young men and women who are at risk of suicide are given better support? How will the Protect Life strategy work for that group?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The prison population is a reflection of failures in society, and when young people end up in prison it is because things have failed dramatically for many years. When I chaired the Committee of the Centre way back in 2000, we did work on young people who ended up in prison and young people in general, and we discovered that some 85% to 90% of prisoners’ children ended up in prison and about 90% of them gave birth to children before the age of 20. A cycle of children was born destined to fail.

We need to address those issues at the very earliest point in children’s lives, from pre-natal right through to early years, because there is a wide group of people who do not have parenting skills and are bringing children into the world. It may shock the Assembly, but a child who suffers three or four adverse incidents in the first three years of its life is 10 times more likely to contemplate suicide or self-harm as a young adult. So one can see that many of the problems that have been identified even in the prison population go right back to childhood and are about how a child is raised from the start. Work needs to be done by the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, particularly in conjunction with the education sector, because those children are not school-ready, not nurtured properly and are not given the proper love and care when they are being raised. When they become young adults, they do not know how to form relationships, are ill educated and are far more likely to end up in the justice system.

The South Eastern Trust has now taken over responsibility for the care of prisoners. Unfortunately, massive numbers of prisoners are on prescription drugs, and there is a drug culture in prisons that goes beyond prescription drugs. There are huge problems with a legal and illegal drug culture that we need to tackle and address. It will be difficult to do that because we are dealing with people whose lives are already very fractured and vulnerable and people who have ended up in jail because, very often, they have been raised in the worst possible circumstances. Work needs to be done there.

We have good people working in prisons. Their work may often not be rewarding, but they are doing their solid best to support people in prison and to give them appropriate care. Sadly, incidents such as yesterday’s continue to happen, and we want them to be eliminated.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I welcome, as others have, the statement this morning, which is progressive and, indeed, has the potential to get on top of this very important issue. The Minister mentioned community groups, and I welcome the involvement of other Departments. He commended community groups, as I do, for trying to do what they can to get on top of the problem. He mentioned £7 million per annum, which sounds fine. However, the groups are always, as far as I am aware, complaining about delays in getting funding to carry out their work. Now there is a new organisation — well, it is new to the Ards Peninsula. I attended the opening of FASA. It has been going for quite some time and does tremendous work in prevention. The Minister mentioned prevention. I want to ensure that funding will go to organisations like that, not at the last minute, but so that they can plan their work ahead to prevent these things in the first place.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I tend to agree with the Member. Very often, funding for organisations tends to involve long-drawn-out application processes and all of those things, whatever government Department it happens to be. Co-ordinators and people who carry out good work often spend far too much time chasing funding. That is a waste of that resource and the individual’s time. I indicated that it is very important that funding is very focused and very targeted on where we are actually delivering and can see real benefits from. We can take a little comfort that the suicide rate dropped last year. After having gone up year on year on year to 313, it dropped by 26 persons last year. That is significant, but it still falls well short of where we would like to be. There is a huge amount more work to be done. I am sure that the Member will be glad to know that we fund and support FASA, and the work that it does has credibility to ensure that it is funded.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I think the Minister for his statement. It is timely because in Newry, in my constituency, three young men have, very tragically, taken their own lives in the past two weeks. Minister, in your statement you talked about setting a new aim to reduce the differential in suicide rates between deprived and non-deprived areas, and you talked about interdepartmental co-operation. Is DSD taking a proactive role in the ministerial subcommittee? And will the Minister ensure that resources are put into deprived areas to lessen the impact of benefit cuts, such as those that are coming through welfare reform in the very near future?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

DSD is one of the Departments that we have had bilateral meetings with, and there is a significant degree of willingness on the part of DSD to work with our Department on issues around suicide. One of the contributors to suicide is alcohol abuse, and a high percentage of people who have taken their own lives are found with alcohol in their system. One area that we have been looking at is the minimum pricing of alcohol, which is strongly supported by the psychiatrists who deal with suicide daily. The ‘Belfast Telegraph’ or whoever can come out with a survey that shows one thing, but all of the empirical evidence that is coming to me says the absolute opposite. We have people who are using drink to try to raise their spirits and their morale, and it actually works as a depressant. Far too many young people are getting alone or into very small groups largely based around bottles of cider and cheap alcohol. They become involved in antisocial activity and are not going out and mixing with large groups of young people. They are not having the same engagement and are becoming isolated and depressed. All of these things have very negative impacts. DSD has particular roles to play, and we will be working very closely with DSD on these issues. It will participate in the group.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement, and I commend him on his continued commitment to suicide prevention. I also commend all of the groups that are doing sterling work in this regard, including Foyle Search and Rescue in my constituency. Can the Minister outline what support and services are available to families and communities bereaved by suicide?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We have a number of bereavement organisations in Northern Ireland. Cruse is one of the better known, but there are many organisations that support people through bereavement. As I was coming in this morning, I heard a very interesting discussion on the programme, ‘Mornings with Frank Mitchell’. It was not about suicide; it was about the tragic case of the little boy who was run over by his grandmother in a completely freak accident and the support that counselling had been to that family at that time. It is important that we continue to support counselling services.

In respect of mental health services, we have crisis home team treatments; a psychological therapies implementation plan; and ‘Beating the Blues’, which is a computerised programme. Those things can be helpful to some extent. We also have counselling and bereavement support in local communities, and there is a family voices forum, which we are funding. We provide funding to quite a lot of groups that offer counselling support and counselling services. I have absolutely no doubt that some people will want to do it their own way and will not want to get counselling. However, many others will. Some people may think that they do not need counselling, but, ultimately, they will end up receiving counselling because they cannot do it on their own. Therefore, it is important to have counselling services available to people.

Sadly, we are acutely aware that, very often when one member of a family takes their own life, it can lead to other members of the family taking their own life. In my constituency, I know of two families where three members of each family took their own life. That is shockingly sad for the remaining family members.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement and commend him and his Executive colleagues for the progress that they have made in taking this important issue forward. I want to ask the Minister about the vulnerability of farmers and those in the rural community who are very much at risk of death by suicide, at times even more so than our young people who are the stereotypical people you first think about. What work is his Department doing with the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, the Ulster Farmers’ Union, NIAPA and other such organisations?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Thankfully, it appears that the number of farmers taking their own life is not as high as it was. As I said, suicide is linked to the economy, and when the unemployment rates rises, the suicide rate rises as well. Farming is a little more profitable than it was a number of years ago. I recall so well that, in 1996, many people I knew took their own life after the BSE crisis. All of a sudden, people who had been operating relatively successfully had huge business debts that they could not contend with. Profitability was absolutely out the window.

It can be very easy for farmers to take their own life because, very often, they have accessibility to firearms, the rope in the barn or poisons. All those things are available to farmers. Greater work is going on. The Public Health Agency goes out to sale yards and places where there are large gatherings of farmers and talks to them about health issues across the board. The agency is happy to talk to farmers, whether it is about cholesterol levels or mental health issues, and, if concerns are identified, it will ensure that there is the appropriate follow-up. Farmers can become very isolated. Farming is a much more isolated line of work than would have been the case 20 or 30 years ago. Farmers who are very isolated have that opportunity to tell people that they have concerns and anxieties and, maybe, ideation of self-harm. They can have someone to talk to in the system and someone to help them in that time of need.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. From my previous experience as a social worker and community worker, I have seen the devastation for families when a member of the family takes their own life. Obviously, that has very tragic consequences. What action, particularly cross-departmental measures, will the refreshed strategy be taking to reduce suicide rates in the Traveller community? Suicide rates are six times higher in that community than in the general population, with 11% of Traveller deaths being due to suicide.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

That is actually quite difficult to identify. Work was done on an all-Ireland Traveller health strategy, which found that Traveller males were 6·6 times more likely to take their own life than the general population. That equates to around four persons in Northern Ireland. However, as it is a small community, it is harder to assess whether that is a continuum or a one-off. In 2010, the Public Health Agency established a Traveller health and well-being forum. As a consequence, a number of initiatives have been targeted at the Traveller community. Those include a health improvement programme, emotional health and well-being training, and parent and child support programmes, which goes back to what I said about good parenting. A wider review of service uptake by Travellers is to commence in September this year. Those initiatives are partly funded under the Protect Life strategy, which contains actions to ensure that support services are available for marginalised and disadvantaged groups, such as Travellers.

Michelle Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement and the way in which he has answered the questions put to him. Like the Minister, I heard that very harrowing interview on the radio this morning. What struck me is that we in rural areas do not have the same access to counselling as those in urban areas do. I want to follow on from Phil Flanagan’s question about rural isolation and farmers. Rural Support, an organisation funded by the Agriculture Department, can signpost people in distress to organisations. However, the difficulty is that, unless you are still at school, people in rural areas do not have access to ongoing counselling support. Will the Minister take steps to address that anomaly and ensure that there is equality and equity across our communities, to ensure that everybody has access to counselling support when they are feeling depressed and suicidal?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member will, of course, know a little about this, having been employed previously in the role of Chair of the Health Committee and as Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development. The interests of the rural community are represented on the regional suicide implementation board by the Rural Support network, which also engages HSC structures. Rural-specific initiatives, supported to date by the Rural Support helpline and Rural Connect, include mental health and suicide prevention awareness sessions held in farmers’ markets and the health-promoting farmers’ programme, as I indicated. Community grant programmes have funded rural programmes delivering council services, bereavement support and mentoring projects for people at risk of suicide.

Where do we go from here? Obviously, we have brought the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development in to the ministerial group on suicide. I see that as a positive thing. She can bring to it her take on what is required in rural communities. We are looking at one-stop shops, which have been piloted and which could be rolled out, and we will look at any other potential vehicles that could be used to make a difference in remote geographical areas. So there is a course of things that we can look at and address, but, again, it is about spending the money that we have wisely and making best use of our money. Therefore we need to be very targeted and focused in ensuring that the money is directed where we can see real tangible benefits. I think that that is something that we can achieve.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I welcome the statement and thank the Minister for bringing it forward to the Assembly. The Minister will be aware of the number of people, especially our young people, who engage in self-harm. What consideration has been given to the link between self-harm and suicide?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Self-harm is a high risk factor for completed suicide, particularly when it is repeated. Very often, it is just a cry for help. Two main actions on deliberate self-harm are the DSH registry and the mentoring self-harm interagency network (SHINE) in the north-west. The latter is a tie-in with the Altnagelvin A&E, whereby patients presenting with injuries due to repeated self-harm are offered referral to community-based groups specialising in mentoring and counselling for people who self-harm. It has had a good rate of success. Over 95% of the participants have shown a reduction in their repeat self-harm behaviour. So that is something that we can look on positively and, perhaps, we can look at how it can be replicated elsewhere.

The lifestyle and coping survey of 3,600 16-year-olds in secondary schools in Northern Ireland found a 10% incidence of deliberate self-harm. That is very significant. The main causes were bullying, relationship difficulties, struggles with sexual orientation and, for others, exam pressures. NICE-issued guidance on long-term management of self-harm in 2011 recommended a risk management plan as part of the care plan, with an aim to reduce the psychological, pharmacological, social and relational risk factors, and offering psychological interventions.

Earlier NICE guidance on the shorter-term management — the first 48 hours — covered assessment, discharge and follow-up. That recommends supportive environments, such as quiet rooms, at A&E to minimise stress. However, we will be looking at something different. The Belfast Trust is looking to identify quiet rooms away from A&E, because, potentially, the A&E environment is not a good environment for people who are suffering from fairly significant mental health issues and contemplating suicide. In all of that, and regarding all acts of deliberate self-harm and people over 65, there is evidence of suicidal intent, and we should regard that as being the case until we can prove otherwise.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Is it not the convention that Members who are not present for part or all of a ministerial statement are not called to ask a question?

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Anyone who is not present for the start of the statement or present for only part of it will be called at the end; anyone who comes in close to the end is called at the very end. That is what we did today.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Further to that point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I have just witnessed an individual who came in after the Minister finished his statement be called to ask a question.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We check the timings on a regular basis, but it is about trying to accommodate those who come in at the very end or close to the end and hear part of the statement. We feel that we followed that procedure today, but we will check it.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phriomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, with your permission I wish to make a statement, in compliance with section 52 of the NI Act 1998, regarding a meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council in education sectoral format. The meeting was held at Farmleigh in Dublin on 15 June 2012. I represented the Executive as Minister for Education, along with the Minister for Social Development, Nelson McCausland MLA. The Irish Government were represented by Ruairi Quinn TD, Minister for Education and Skills. This statement has been agreed with Minister McCausland and is made on behalf of us both. I will summarise the main points from the meeting, ranging across all the agreed areas of education co-operation.

With regard to the education survey in border regions, we noted progress made towards the development of a questionnaire and mechanisms for a joint attitudinal survey to inform cross-border pupil movement and school planning. We agreed the planned next steps for the conduct of the survey and agreed that a final report on the results and proposals on the way forward will be available for consideration no later than the first NSMC education meeting of 2013.

In regard to educational underachievement, we noted that the educational underachievement working group (EUWG) met in March 2012 to review and advance its work programme. The working group has reviewed progress on the production of a joint report by the two inspectorates on best practice in literacy and numeracy in post-primary settings and the potential for a similar publication on good practice in supporting those with special educational needs. The Council welcomed the working group’s planned consultation with Children’s Books Ireland on the potential for a proposal encouraging young teenagers’ involvement in reading. The Council noted that both Departments are giving consideration to supporting maths week in 2012, and discussions are taking place between officials on the sharing of best practice on attendance and retention.

In regard to teacher qualifications, we welcomed the ongoing liaison between the two teaching councils on issues relating to professional recognition and registration in both jurisdictions. We noted that a meeting between both councils was held on 14 June 2012. That focused on mobility, accreditation and recognition of qualifications of teachers in a cross-border context. The Council noted that their objective is to facilitate full mobility of teachers across both jurisdictions. While recognising that both teaching councils were working closely to resolve outstanding issues, I expressed my disappointment that progress in that area was taking longer than I had anticipated.

We noted the ongoing consideration being given by Marino College of Further Education in Dublin to the University of Ulster’s proposal to deliver a preparatory course to enable students to undertake assessments administered by Marino College leading to the Scrúdú Cáilíochta sa Ghaeilge, which is the Irish language qualification. We also noted the continuing interest shown by St Mary’s University College, Belfast, in delivering the course.

On Irish-medium education, we noted the ongoing work of a jointly funded collaborative programme for the 2011-12 academic year to support 12 Gaeltacht schools and Irish-medium schools. Their participation in the programme will be evaluated with a view to identifying teaching and learning impacts and best practice examples for wider dissemination. Analysis of feedback from participating schools has taken place, and plans to develop an action plan for 2012-13 have been initiated.

We welcomed the active participation of Irish-medium teachers from both systems in educational conferences. Twelve Irish-medium teachers from the South took part in the Comhairle na Gaelscolaíochta conference in Coláiste Feirste in Belfast in March. Six Irish-medium teachers from the North took part at the Gaelscoileanna conference in Tullamore in November 2011.

The council welcomed ongoing exchanges between the two inspectorates, including their sharing of good practice in school evaluation and their plans for further paired exchanges during the 2012-13 academic year.

In regard to school, youth and teacher exchanges, we welcomed the proposed 10th SCoTENs annual conference in Cavan in October 2012 entitled ‘Creative Teachers for Creative Learners: Implications for Teacher Education’. The Council welcomed the North/South student exchanges that took place in March 2012 and ongoing work to implement the recommendations outlined in the joint inspectorate evaluation report of the dissolving boundaries project. We welcomed the continuing joint support for the Causeway programme and the North/South Education and Training Standards Committee for Youth Work in Ireland.

In regard to special educational needs, we agreed to a limited expansion of services delivered by the Middletown Centre for Autism, with a focus on ensuring a sustainable future for the centre and supported joint efforts to ensure the agreed expansion is delivered as soon as possible. The Council noted the continued progress made by the centre in delivering its training and advisory service and research and information service to children, professionals and parents.

Ministers agreed that the North/South Ministerial Council in education format should meet again on 17 October 2012.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

The Minister will be aware that the Education Committee visited the Middletown centre and was very impressed by the commitment of those involved. However, the original remit of the centre was to help those suffering from severe autism who could not be assisted through special schools. Can the Minister tell the House when he hopes the centre will achieve its full objectives and outline the expanded services to which he referred?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The centre was created over 10 years ago. The delivery of autism services has evolved in both jurisdictions over that time. The North/South Ministerial Council has taken the opportunity to have a full evaluation of where Middletown now sits for both jurisdictions. As the Member rightly states, the Education Committee recently visited the centre, and I believe that its remarks about the ongoing work there were quite positive. At the meeting, we agreed to a limited development of the centre.

What we in the North will be looking for from the centre — Minister Quinn will be looking for something different for his jurisdiction — is an increase in outreach support to children, from the current level of approximately 10 children a year to 40 children in year 1 and to 60 children from year 2 onwards; expansion of the research and information services to enable increased focus on the research being carried out from working with the children who are supported by the centre; and an evaluation of staffing requirements to ensure renewed focus on the delivery of front line services and the achievement of best value for money and outcomes for young people. That is the planned way forward to meet our requirements for the Middletown centre.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. First, I would like to welcome the progress on the education survey in border regions. I think that that is a very important initiative that people in border communities will welcome. The Minister touched on the progress made to date in the recognition of teaching qualifications but mentioned that he is somewhat disappointed that that has taken longer than was anticipated. Can he provide a further update on the progress made to date and say how he expects to see that taken forward?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for the question. Although there has been regular engagement between the teaching councils, I have expressed my disappointment that we have not reached a conclusion following those discussions. I hope that, at the next meeting, the GTC and the TCI reach agreement on recognition in the southern jurisdiction of qualifications of teachers from the northern jurisdiction. Our teacher qualifications are of an internationally recognised standard, and I see no reason why they cannot be recognised in the southern jurisdiction. I hope that the matter will be resolved at the next meeting of the councils. I think that, if it is not resolved, there will be further discussion about it at the next meeting in education sectoral format in October.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I want to touch on the issue of educational underachievement. When the Department came to the Committee, we looked at the number of GCSEs and the increase in the number of grades A* to C. That is the wrong end of the spectrum; literacy and numeracy are at the other end of the spectrum. At these meetings of the NSMC, are we going to look at ideas for getting a better measurement of added value at the other end?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The work of the North/South Ministerial Council is about learning from each other’s experiences and looking at best practice in both jurisdictions. I think that the goal of all students achieving five good GCSEs, including English and maths, is still the right goal. That is a target in our Programme for Government. However, I do not believe that education will be able to achieve that on its own. Many reports point out that we will not improve education if we simply concentrate on the classroom. That is also the case with health. We have to improve people’s lives in totality and ensure that social deprivation is tackled. We also have to ensure that young people and their families have a stake in their community and in life in order to improve those things.

As regards measuring added value, that is something that I wish to return to, although I am not sure about a unitary measure for those things. Clearly, education cannot simply be measured against exam result league tables. Educationalists add value to our young people through encouragement and by giving them a sense of ownership over their lives and the community around them. So, that is much more difficult to measure, but I have no doubt that it is taking place in our education system.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Learning from each other, tackling underachievement and raising standards are great opportunities for us to deliver real, tangible cross-border benefits not only for research into autism but for the level of support for families dealing with autism. How active are the Dublin Government in supporting the Middletown Centre for Autism?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As I said in my report, we have now agreed a way forward for the Middletown centre. There has been some doubt around the future of the centre. We now have an agreed programme of work for that centre. The Dublin Government have been proactive in providing funding; the centre is jointly funded. We have now agreed that there are different needs in each jurisdiction. The Dublin Government’s needs are different to those I have in this jurisdiction. The needs of this jurisdiction will be focused on research and outcomes for children, in the sense of accessing the centre, etc. I am confident that the Dublin Government see the Middletown centre as part of their ongoing work to improve outcomes for families and young people with autism. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

Jonathan Craig (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I noted the Minister’s concerns about the lack of progress towards the full mobility of teachers in the answer he gave earlier. Will the Minister give the House assurances that the issues of requiring teachers to be able to speak Irish and to possess the Catholic certificate will be dealt with in the Republic of Ireland? Both issues are seen as discriminatory by those who are non-Irish speakers and non-Catholics. I suggest that there may also be an issue of adherence to EU rules allowing freedom of opportunity in the workplace.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Both of those matters are matters for the Dublin Government and relate to their legislation and employment requirements. Today, I have set out methodologies for people to obtain the recognised qualification in the Irish language. I am not aware of the detail with regard to the religious certificate for teaching in the Twenty-six Counties. Removal of those requirements are both matters for that jurisdiction.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. Will he tell us how many people are likely to be consulted as part of the cross-border education survey on pupil movement and school planning?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The final details of the numbers involved are not yet available to me, but we are talking about several thousand people being surveyed on each side of the border. Families will be contacted and questioned on their attitudes to cross-border educational delivery. We are talking about several thousands with regard to the survey.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement and answers so far. Let me pick up on the point my colleague made on teacher qualifications. At a time when the teaching profession is at saturation point, will the Minister assure local teachers that facilitating mobility between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland will not lead to further difficulties for newly qualified teachers in getting posts? There is serious concern that this will affect the ability of young teachers, trained in Northern Ireland at the taxpayer’s expense, to secure meaningful employment in Northern Ireland.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I do not believe that teachers qualified here will be placed at a disadvantage. It is worth noting that the Dublin Government are building 20 new schools — not replacement schools, like those that I announced yesterday, but new schools — because of the rise in the population of young people. There is an opportunity for employment in that jurisdiction for young teachers from here. We already recognise teaching qualifications obtained in the Twenty-six Counties, but our teaching qualifications are not given equal recognition in the Twenty-six Counties. I want to reach a point where our teachers have an opportunity of employment in the Twenty-six Counties, in the same way that teachers from the Twenty-six Counties have an opportunity for employment here.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

I also thank the Minister for his statement. I note that he said he was disappointed with the slow progress on teacher qualifications on a cross-border basis. Jonathan Craig, my colleague on the Education Committee, has touched on that. On a related teacher training point, given that the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 makes discrimination on grounds of religious belief and/or political opinion unlawful in employment, does the Minister accept that schools should reflect the diversity of Northern Ireland? Will he work with the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to seek a change in the order to remove the teacher exception?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The Member has made the point at the end of her question. All equality legislation and employment legislation is a matter for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to deal with. That is where the matter rests at this time.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Staying with the issue of teacher qualification, it is clear from the statement that the Minister is much exercised about matters touching on the Irish-medium sector, but, as is evident from his answers this morning, he is much less concerned about a matter already raised; namely, the discrimination practised within Northern Ireland and cross border against Protestants on the issue of the Catholic certificate of education. Surely, that is an issue that the Minister, if he has any interest in opposing discrimination, must have discussed with his Southern counterparts, or is he, like his colleague Conor Murphy, quite happy to peddle discrimination?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

If the Member wishes to broaden the terms of North/South co-operation in educational format, I am happy to do so.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I welcome the opportunity to inform the Assembly of the outcome of the 2012-13 June monitoring round. It is, of course, the first monitoring round of this financial year and, therefore, the first opportunity that the Executive have to reallocate funding amongst the Departments. Normally, I would have an opportunity to brief the Chairman of the Committee before making the statement. Just in case it is misinterpreted, I apologise for the fact that it was not possible; business moved on quicker than we had expected. He and I were due to meet about now but it has not been possible.

The presentation of the June monitoring position is focused on the non-ring-fenced resource and capital investment figures, since that is the funding that the Executive can use to deliver public services. That is consistent with the approach adopted during the 2011-12 monitoring rounds. However, the ring-fenced position, which relates to non-cash costs such as depreciation, is also included as a separate table to the statement. Furthermore, the Executive continue to monitor departmental administrative cost expenditure, and the latest position is also attached.

I will start by setting out the amount of resources that the Executive had available to allocate in this round. The 2011-15 Budget included a £30 million per annum overcommitment for both non-ring-fenced resource and capital expenditure. That set the initial starting position for this June monitoring round. However, a number of issues materially changed that position, and I will highlight those next.

First, we received additional DEL Barnett allocations for the 2012-13 financial year resulting from the 2011 UK Budget, the 2011 autumn statement and the 2012 UK Budget. Those Barnett additions amounted to £33 million of non-ring-fenced resource and £15·1 million capital investment. Secondly, Members will recall that the provisional out-turn outcome, which I announced on 29 May, resulted in planned resources of £46·3 million non-ring-fenced resource and £5·8 million capital investment being carried forward into 2012-13. Although the final amount to be carried forward will not be agreed with Her Majesty’s Treasury until the final out-turn in the autumn, I do not expect those figures to change materially. Therefore, the Executive have included those amounts in their in-year financial planning, and they have been made available in this monitoring round.

Thirdly, the amount of interest to be paid on our reinvestment and reform initiative borrowing this year is now expected to be £3 million lower than planned at the time of the Budget; hence, that released £3 million of resource expenditure at the centre for reallocation.

Finally, the Executive have also made a number of decisions that had an impact on the June monitoring capital investment starting position. These included, among others, the £10 million allocation to DSD for co-ownership agreed as part of the 2011-12 October monitoring round; the financial implications in 2012-13 of the A5-A8 decisions; and the impact of the asset management unit’s capital receipts target being adjusted. These issues resulted in an additional £16·5 million of capital investment resources being available to the Executive in this round.

In total, all of these issues resulted in a starting position of £52·4 million in non-ring-fenced resource and £7·4 million of capital investment, respectively, available to the Executive for allocation. Importantly, that is before the departmental reduced requirements, internal reallocations and reclassifications have been taken into account. I will turn to those issues next.

Departments declared reduced requirements of £12·2 million in non-ring-fenced resource expenditure and £29·1 million of capital investment in this monitoring round. The most significant reduced requirement was the £2·5 million of capital investment surrendered by DCAL in respect of the regional stadium programme. I am disappointed with this slippage in the stadium programme, not only because these are important projects for our major sports, but because it will create a capital pressure in future years.

The public expenditure control framework provides each Department with considerable scope to address emerging pressures in their existing allocations on a unilateral basis. However, any proposals to move resources across spending areas in excess of the de minimis threshold of £1 million are subject to Executive approval. There may also be departmental allocations that are incorrectly classified for technical reasons. Departments may also seek to reclassify part of their budget as part of a proactive management action. All such reclassifications require Executive approval. Details of all the proactive movements and reclassifications agreed by the Executive have been included in the tables accompanying this statement.

The level of resources available to the Executive for allocation in this monitoring round was influenced by all of the issues I have highlighted so far. The net impact, including the June monitoring position, the reduced requirements and the reclassifications, is that the Executive had £76·6 million in non-ring-fenced resource expenditure and £32·2 million of capital investment. Against that significant level of available resources, Departments have bid for additional resources of £108·2 million in non-ring-fenced resource and £88·2 million of capital investment. The individual bids by Departments, again, are detailed in the tables that accompany the statement.

Before I go on to the allocations made by the Executive in this round, there are two issues that I would like to highlight: the Executive’s decision to agree an invest-to-save scheme and the latest development in the green new deal.

I am sure Members will be fully aware that the Budget position will become increasingly difficult over the coming years, and I have highlighted this on a number of occasions in the Assembly. The latest projections from the Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) suggest that this is unlikely to change beyond the 2014-15 financial year. The ongoing uncertainty over the future of the euro zone and the lack of economic recovery in the region, including within the UK, also indicates that the next UK spending review is likely to be difficult. In that context, and given the amount of resources available for allocation during this round, the Executive agreed that it would prudent to prioritise £30 million of funding towards an invest-to-save scheme, the aim of which is to remove ongoing costs that would likely become unaffordable in later years. The Executive agreed that departmental proposals under this scheme would be signed off by the First Minister and deputy First Minister, based on my recommendations, as quickly as possible to ensure delivery within this financial year. I intend to inform the Assembly of the outcome of this exercise when we come to the October monitoring round.

Budget 2011-15 included a provision of £4 million of resource in each of the years 2012-13, 2013-14 and 2014-15 to take forward green new deal proposals. The funding was held at the centre until detailed proposals were developed. I can now inform the House that, after considering a range of options, the cross-departmental group tasked with developing green new deal proposals has recommended that the funding be channelled towards a boiler replacement scheme to be operated by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. The £4 million of funding set aside at the centre will, therefore, be transferred to the Department for Social Development.

As £30 million of funding for the invest-to-save scheme was held at the centre, the amount of non-ring-fenced resources available to meet departmental bids was reduced to £46·6 million.

In total, the Executive agreed allocations of £53·1 million of non-ring-fenced resource and £49·9 million of capital investment. Allocations were made to a number of Departments, and each allocation is detailed in the tables attached to the statement. However, I want to highlight some of the main allocations.

The Executive agreed to allocate £37·5 million to the Department for Regional Development. That allocation will provide a significant funding boost of £27·8 million towards roads maintenance and will speed up the Coleraine to Londonderry track relay project. Those allocations will not only help to maintain our road and rail network but, importantly, will provide a significant boost for the local construction industry. The additional funding will also allow the purchase of new buses to address the ageing bus fleet and help the Department for Regional Development to maintain the concessionary fares scheme. I am sure that that will be of interest to you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, as it will be to a number of other Members. The allocation towards the purchase of new buses also provides the potential opportunity to access a further £5·8 million of EU funding, which would double that investment.

The Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety was allocated £24·2 million. Some £14·2 million of that funding will go towards essential health and safety works and maintenance throughout the health estate, which will be another boost for the construction industry. The remaining £10 million will help the Department to address waiting time backlogs in key elective care areas.

The Department for Employment and Learning was allocated £13·8 million. The allocation will provide significant funding for the Department’s unemployment programmes. It includes the first tranche of £5·8 million of funding towards a new policy, agreed by the Executive, which will assist young unemployed people and those who are not in education, employment or training. The allocation will ensure that DEL is funded to provide the necessary help and support to those who have fallen victim of the economic downturn. It will also allow it to address the specific problem of rising youth unemployment.

The Department of Education was allocated £9 million. That will maintain the integrity of the schools EYF system and provide funding towards the essential maintenance of the education estate.

The Executive also agreed to allocate £8 million to the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure. Most of the funding will go towards preparations for the UK City of Culture events, but £1·5 million was also allocated towards the completion of the 50-metre pool in Bangor. I am sure that that will please my party’s Chief Whip.

The Environment Minister tabled a bid for costs associated with local government reform. The Executive agreed not to meet the bid at this stage but asked the Environment Minister to table a more detailed paper on the issue as part of the October monitoring round. The paper would have to justify why central government should finance reform in the local government sector.

In conclusion, today I have announced allocations of £128 million, including the invest-to-save scheme. The allocations include significant additional capital investment, particularly in our roads and hospitals, which will provide a much-needed boost for our construction sector.

The Executive have also committed additional funding to help the unemployed back into work. The new scheme aimed at young people shows that the Executive understand the importance of ensuring that no young person is left behind in what are very challenging economic times. I believe that this demonstrates that the Executive will not be found wanting where there is a real need for us to intervene. Our young people are the future of this country, and I strongly believe that this latest policy initiative shows our commitment to investing in our future.

The result of these allocations means that the Executive now exit the monitoring round with a comfortable overcommitment of £6·5 million in respect of non-ring-fenced resource expenditure and £12·7 million in capital expenditure. I believe that this is a reasonable position at this stage of the financial year, although the scope to make further allocations later in the year will depend heavily on the amount of reduced requirements that are surrendered during the next monitoring rounds. That said, I firmly believe that it is important to allocate funding early in the financial year, since doing so ensures that money is spent in a more planned and efficient manner. I, therefore, commend the June monitoring outcome to the Assembly.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister for his statement and acknowledge that circumstances meant that we were not able to meet this morning. In possibly my last opportunity as Chair of the Finance Committee, I thank the Minister for his co-operation throughout the year. We have not always agreed on everything; nonetheless, it has always been interesting, and I place on record my appreciation for the work that I have done with him.

There was, obviously, a more significant level of reduced requirements in the monitoring round statement: almost twice as much as last year in resource; and, last year, capital was only £0·3 million, whereas, this year, there is almost £30 million of reduced capital requirements. Does the Minister believe that what he set out today indicates that the Departments have fully declared their reduced requirements at this time, and how confident is he that Departments will not declare significant levels of reduced requirements at the January monitoring round, which would leave much less time to properly reallocate those funds?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Chairman for his comments and wish him all the best as he leaves this place.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I do not know where he is going.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

That is quite true; certainly not to Westminster. He is going to have a life of leisure.

He highlighted the issue of reduced requirements. Of course, we want Departments to identify and declare reduced requirements — although it is not always possible — as soon as possible. That is because, as can be seen from my statement, that means that we can plan ahead; we can look at which schemes are the Assembly’s greatest priority and spend money on the most pressing needs, rather than have, as he highlighted, the unseemly scramble at the end of the year, where money comes in late and we are looking for things to spend it on in the short term so that it does not go back. I suppose that we have at least got the message over to Departments to declare reduced requirements early.

He asked me to look into the crystal ball and say whether or not there are likely to be significant reduced requirements later in the year. I do not know the answer to that. It is up to Departments to keep on monitoring their expenditure. There will be an opportunity in October for them to look at the figures again. However, he identified the important point that Ministers must not hold on to money until the last moment. They must scrutinise their Department’s expenditure regularly and, where there is any doubt, make sure that money is returned. We do not want a situation such as last year’s to arise, where huge amounts of money were returned in the February monitoring round. At that stage, had it not been for the fact that we were able to pump a lot of money into roads maintenance, we would probably have been left in an embarrassing position.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. North Down Borough Council officials and I met him several weeks ago to highlight concerns about the funding to finish the Olympic legacy pool in Bangor. I am sure that people in north Down will join me in welcoming the commitment of £1·5 million to complete the pool. Does the Minister welcome the fact that a high percentage of the work on that project has gone to local firms via procurement, and does he believe that that construction work will help to stimulate the economy?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I acknowledge the Member’s point. The Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure raised that early last year and returned the money. Ministers are sometimes reluctant to return money because they think that they will not get it the next year, so, even though it cannot be carried forward, they tend to hold on to it for as long as possible.

That money was returned, and, although we can never give any cast-iron guarantees that it will be made available next year, the allocation today indicates that we will always seek to be able to make the money available in the next year. That is the case where the money has been returned in good faith because it could not be spent and for situations where there is an ongoing project. I visited the pool in Bangor, and I was very pleased to see that the mapping that had been done meant that over 85% — I think that that was the figure — of the spend on the project went to firms operating within a 60-mile radius of Bangor. That meant that a high percentage of that sum went into the small and medium-sized enterprise sector in Northern Ireland.

Despite what has been said about public procurement and the way in which we are tied by European rules and so on, that project highlights that we try to ensure that, when money is pumped into the economy through such projects, the procurement will try to make sure that as many local firms and people as possible benefit. That is not always possible, but it has a huge multiplier impact on the local economy. Once the pool is finished, the people of Bangor, and, in fact, the people of Northern Ireland, will have a fantastic facility.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I am glad to hear that I will also have a pool on my doorstep. The pool, which will be the first 50-metre pool in Northern Ireland, has been a long time coming. So, it is good news.

I thank the Minister for the report. It mentions the invest to save scheme, which I was intrigued by. I cannot see that £30 million mentioned anywhere in the schedule, so will the Minister tell me whether it is in the centre, that infamous place where money seems to rest? What else is in the centre? How is the invest to save scheme likely to work? Will there be bids, for example? How will it actually be carried out?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The invest to save money is held at the centre. It has not been allocated to any Department yet, because, as the Member said, it is up to Departments to bid for the money. We will look in those bids for, first, the long-term savings that can be made from them; secondly, the money that the Department in question has already, the spending that it has done to try to save the money and the resources that it will bring; and thirdly, the way in which the invest to save proposals fit with the Executive’s priorities. The important point is that the scheme seeks to relieve, in future years, the pressure on budgets that we have identified. We will judge the proposal on the amount of pressure that it relieves. I am particularly interested in schemes that show that there will be an improvement in the way in which services are delivered. If we are going to make improvements, we cannot keep on delivering services in the traditional way. We know what costs are based on that method, but, if there are proposals for new ways to deliver services that require some new investment, we will look at them. Hopefully, the bids will come in sooner rather than later, because the quicker this money can be spent, the quicker we can get down the road of making the savings. That is why we are not waiting until the next monitoring round and why we will allocate the money between now and then and simply inform the Assembly of that.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I listened carefully to the Minister say that he wanted clear indications of invest to save bids. I remind him that, on 13 December, he said that he was open-minded about a £70 million bid to deliver Transforming Your Care, or the Compton review. Yet, despite a significant bid from the Department of Health, there is no allocation for that in this monitoring round. How so?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

If one looks at the statement, one will see that money has been allocated to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety for elective care and for maintenance. The invest-to-save fund has only been set up. That is the first thing to say.

Secondly, bids will have to be received from Departments. The Member nods — yes, the bid has already been received. However, the Executive had to set up the fund. We agreed to its setting up, and it is being presented to the Assembly in this monitoring round. I have absolutely no doubt that DHSSPS will be one of the Departments that will make an application for funding.

I wish to make this point very clear: we will be looking to see how Departments, from within their own resources in the first instance, can contribute to any invest-to-save proposals. I think that it is right that we do that. This should be neither a penalty kick for Departments nor a way of enabling them to avoid scrutinising their own budgets. Departments will therefore have to show what they can do from within their own resources. They will then have to show what savings they believe will be released and how quickly, because, depending on their scheme, some Departments may be able to release savings much more quickly than others. Thirdly, funding will depend on the number of bids received and how they fit into the priorities that we have set. The Health Minister has already looked at a number of proposals for changing the whole care regime, so I would hope that DHSSPS will be in a position to make a bid fairly quickly, as I am sure will other Departments.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Can he explain why administration expenditure in some Departments has fallen substantially, while in others it has increased?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The Member probably refers particularly to the increases in OFMDFM. In some cases, administration costs have gone up because of a transfer of responsibilities into a Department. In other cases, they have risen because of a reclassification, whereby some costs had not been regarded as administration costs before. That is the case with the Office of the Attorney General, which has put up administration costs in OFMDFM. Therefore, there can be a number of reasons for increases and decreases. Some departmental administration costs have been removed as a result of transfers of responsibilities out of Departments. Some costs have increased because of transfers of responsibilities into Departments or because of reclassifications.

That said, I think that some Departments have been much more diligent than others in reducing their administrative costs. As I said yesterday during the debate on the Second Stage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill, I am pleased that, last year, administrative costs went down by 5·3% on average across all Departments in Northern Ireland. However, that should not be the end of the story. We should still be looking for ways in which to reduce those administrative costs so that front line services are not affected where there are pressures on budgets.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. It is a mixed bag, but, all in all, there are some interesting nuggets in it.

Administration costs have just been referred to. The Minister gave me a very detailed answer yesterday, but I see that those costs in the Department of Education went up by £7·8 million, an increase that was accepted, yet a bid for £2·3 million for the reform of public administration and local councils was declined. Would that bid for funding not have been considered an invest-to-save measure that should have been supported? I have to express my disappointment that it was not.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

First, the application for some of the costs towards the reform of public administration and local councils could not, on the basis of an Executive decision, be accepted.

The Executive had made a decision that, since the savings from the RPA would be fully held by local government, the cost of any changes and any work should fall on local government. That was an Executive decision in October last year. Therefore, the bid would have been contrary to the expressed wish of the Executive.

That is why we said to the Minister to return in the next monitoring round and, between now and then, table a paper for the Executive if there is an exception. If he can make an exception, the Executive will consider it, although it is still my preference that, since the RPA is designed to release hundreds of millions of pounds of savings to local councils, they should pay the costs.

The other danger of simply saying that all RPA costs will be met by the Executive is that there will be no incentive for local councils to consider how savings might be made as a result of the RPA by looking at joint services, slimming down their administrative structures, and so on. A balance must be struck. If substantial savings can be achieved, the costs should be looked at.

I appreciate that there may be upfront costs; I am sure that that is the Member’s reference. I will be looking to the Minister of the Environment to indicate the likely upfront costs and suggest how they can be addressed so that they are spread over a longer time. There are probably ways to do that.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement and his answers so far. He will be aware of problems with the PSNI equal pay issue. Will he confirm to the House that the £26 million that has been ring-fenced and is sitting in the Department of Justice will be there in the next financial year if it is not spent by the end of this financial year?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

As the Member is aware, the PSNI equal pay issue goes to court some time in September, possibly 7 September. Therefore, I probably cannot answer anything on the specific claim. However, the £26 million was ring-fenced until the end of the last financial year. The issue had not been settled by that stage, so we intervened with the Treasury, and the ring-fencing was extended for another year. If the case is not settled by the end of this financial year, of course we will go back to the Treasury. I cannot give any guarantee because at this stage we have not discussed the issue with the Treasury. However, given the way in which the Treasury has accepted arguments to date, it can be extrapolated that money can be carried over to next year. However, I do not want this affair to be long, protracted and drawn out. The case should have been in court in May, but, for whatever reason, it has not been listed until September I would prefer to get the issue to court and a decision made as to whether there is a valid pay claim. If there is a valid pay claim, the money should be paid out. That is my desire and the desire of everybody in the Department. However, money cannot be paid out if there is not a valid pay claim, which is why the court adjudication will be important.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister. It is disappointing that the Department of the Environment’s bid for support for RPA transition costs for councils was not met in the monitoring round, but I welcome the fact that the door is not closed. I also take on board what the Minister said about the Executive not being expected to absorb all the costs. However, does he recognise the desirability of giving councils some direct support to assist with this difficult process, which will generate mountains of work, to build confidence and reduce the pressure on business and domestic ratepayers?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

As I said in answer to a previous question, if this is done properly, and given that benefits worth hundreds of millions of pounds will fall to local councils, the expectation has always been that they would find the money from their own resources.

The bid, as I understand it, was for the setting-up of transition committees and for the payment of officials, some of whom I imagine will be seconded from the councils anyway. It is really just a transfer of money there. Some of it will be for the payment of allowances etc to people who have to attend meetings. Again, that is a decision that local councils can make.

If there are inescapable, unavoidable and insurmountable costs to councils that cannot be met immediately, that is the kind of information that I want to receive from the Environment Minister. I would have thought that £2·4 million spread across 26 councils at present would not have broken the bank for the councils and, therefore, could probably have been absorbed by them. There may be costs at a later stage that are up front and would put a considerable strain on council finances in one particular year. That is the kind of issue that I want to hear from the Minister of the Environment about.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

The Minister talked earlier about a penalty kick for Departments. I hope that they do not select Ashley Cole to take them.

In his statement, he referred to the £13·8 million for the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL). Youth unemployment is a major issue in all our constituencies. He specifically mentioned the £5·8 million to fund a new policy, agreed by the Executive, that is targeted at assisting young unemployed people. He said that this was the first tranche of money from the Executive. What future funding will be required for this initiative?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Whilst the Executive take the issue of youth unemployment in Northern Ireland very seriously, a look at our record will show that, as a result of proactive measures, we are already probably better placed than other parts of the United Kingdom. Our youth unemployment is considerably lower than that of the Republic of Ireland, the UK average and about six other regions in the United Kingdom. It has not been rising here as it has been doing in other areas.

A considerable amount of work has been done already, but the Minister for Employment and Learning was encouraged to bring forward a programme especially for those people who were hard to reach — the NEETS (not in education, employment or training). There is no point in these things being one-year, one-off programmes because, very often, the problem lasts much longer than that. Therefore, he has made a three-year spending bid for that programme.

I should know the exact amount off the top of my head, but it is in the region of over £30 million. This is the first tranche; obviously, it will ramp up over the years, and there is a commitment by the Executive to find funding in the third year and the fourth year of the Budget so that his application is fully funded.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. When he read it out, he lost £10 million. When he was reading out the amount of reduced requirements sent back by DCAL, he read out £2·5 million instead of £12·5 million. Anyway, that is not my question.

I am sure that the Minister will agree that the slippage on the stadium spending in the DCAL budget is regrettable. Which stadium will be affected by the slippage, and will it mean that the project is slipping beyond the comprehensive spending review (CSR) period and that some of the funding for that is now at risk?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I congratulate the Member on passing the test. I used to do this in school all the time to see who was listening. [Laughter.] Could they pick up the deliberate mistake? I congratulate the Member on identifying that, because it shows that she was paying rapt attention. I have to say, however, that while I was reading the statement some of my own party colleagues were not paying attention, because they did not pick it up at all.

There have been some planning and technical issues with the stadiums. Someone has been appointed to oversee the delivery of the stadium projects. In response to the Chairman, I made the point that I do not want Departments to hide any underspend that there might be but to bring it forward as quickly as possible. The Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure, to be fair, identified that, after the projects were looked at, there were technical issues and issues that the director believed would affect delivery within the timetable that we had expected, and she declared that at an early stage. We are aware that that money will be available in future years, so we will have to plan accordingly.

The stadium projects are important for the Assembly. We cannot give any guarantees, and the Member would not expect guarantees to be given so far ahead for capital expenditure. Nevertheless, once the projects are started, we would have to see them through anyway. It will be a case of looking at what capital moneys are available. There is always a health warning put on any bid or indication that resources might be required because of slippage in future years. The health warning is always that we can recognise that the project is important, but, until we see what resources are available, we cannot give a guarantee about whether the resources can be allocated. Although it is disappointing that there has been that slippage, it is better to know about it now than be told about it at the last moment and then have to find ways of accommodating the additional money that has been made available.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Would he like to address the issue of flexibility for Invest Northern Ireland? I raise the issue because, last year, Invest Northern Ireland surrendered £37 million and, this year, it is already in a position of surrendering £11·8 million. That is because of very difficult economic circumstances; I am not criticising Invest Northern Ireland. Should it not be allowed greater flexibility to retain those moneys so that it can reinvest them more flexibly in other areas in which they could be usefully used to create jobs and further investment?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I understand why the Member asked the question. At least he has not joined in in the siren calls of condemning Invest Northern Ireland. A lot of it is demand-led; if the demand is not there, the money cannot be spent. In that regard, his response was measured. However, I am a wee bit surprised, because he will know as well as I do — I have explained this time and again in the Assembly — that there is no ability to hold on to money and carry it forward from one year to the next, other than through the Budget exchange system that we have designed with the Treasury, which allows us to carry over a certain percentage of our departmental expenditure limit and capital from one year to the next. If the unspent money were left with Invest Northern Ireland and were outside the amount that we keep under the carry-over provision, it would be lost; it would just go back to the Treasury. There is not a mechanism for simply saying, “Look, you hold on to that money. You are a government body, so hold on to that money and carry it forward to next year.” If it does not fall within the amount that we hold at the centre as a result of unspent moneys each year, it goes back to the Treasury. So, there would not be any benefit in that.

However, given the importance of growing the economy to the Programme for Government, it has happened in the past that Invest NI has come in at the last minute and said, “Look, we have an important project here.” The Bombardier one is a good case in point. That decision came after the Budget was agreed. It was a fair amount of money; I think that it was over £30 million at the time on a year-to-year basis. I have been to see the project, and it is a fantastic opportunity for Northern Ireland to get its foot in a fairly lucrative market. When it came to the need for that money, we went as far as top-slicing Departments’ budgets to make sure that the bid was met. If the Member looks at it in that way, he will see that, given our priority, should there be an upturn and should Invest Northern Ireland say, “We now desperately need the money that we gave back for projects”, we will go to extremes to find the money rather than lose the opportunities.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I notice that the Department of Education will get an extra £9 million of resources through this recycling. Is that Department doing all that it should be doing to recoup the money that it ought to be recouping for the education of children from the Republic of Ireland? It appears that in excess of 400 children who come from the Irish Republic are enjoying education in Northern Ireland, and it appears, from the equivocal answers of the Minister, that not one penny is being recouped but rather that the Northern Ireland taxpayer is subsidising that. Is that correct? How long has that been the situation? What steps will now be taken to recover that money, and how much is involved?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The detail of that question is more the responsibility of the Minister of Education, but the Member is quite right that there is a net inflow of pupils from the Irish Republic into Northern Ireland. I think that over 400 come into Northern Ireland to be educated and about 200 from Northern Ireland go to the Irish Republic to be educated. It is my understanding from the little investigation that I have done on the issue so far that no moneys have been transferred, which means that there will be a net cost of, I think, over £1 million to the education budget in Northern Ireland.

As I have said time and time again, there are occasions when it is a better use of our resources to co-operate and sell services to the Republic and vice versa, but it must be done on the basis that it is not a gift, especially when budgets are under pressure. I hope that the Education Committee and Members will take that issue up with the Department of Education. My investigations to date show that no money has changed hands. If that is wrong — I do not think that it is — a correction will, of course, be given. However, on the basis that there is a net transfer of young people to schools in Northern Ireland and no money is being paid — there is an average cost of £2,000 per pupil — there is, of course, a net cost to a budget that, as the Member pointed out, is hard-pressed at the moment. Any Minister should seek to ensure that all the money that can be earned by his or her Department is earned.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I welcome the monitoring round statement, particularly the investments in youth employment measures and Steps to Work. I want to touch on the invest-to-save fund. Does the Minister recognise that investment in shared facilities and services provides an important opportunity to unlock savings by removing segregation?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I have said to the Member on a number of occasions — certainly to members of her party — that there are a range of ways in which savings to the public purse can be made. If, by having shared services or breaking down the costs of segregation, we can, as she said, make savings to the public purse, of course Departments ought to bring those forward and show how the savings can be made. As I said in earlier answers, they should also show what they are doing with their resources in the first place to try to release those savings. Schemes of that nature will be judged in the same way as any other invest-to-save scheme that is brought forward for the £30 million that the Executive have set aside.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I welcome the additional £24·2 million to help to address pressures in the health system. I noticed that the Transforming Your Care bid of £18 million has been turned down. Can the Minister explain precisely why such a bid was turned down? To enable GPs to treat more patients away from hospitals, for example, involves a degree of investing to save by our primary healthcare system.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

It was turned down for a number of reasons. First, I was not convinced that the money for the Transforming Your Care proposals could not have been found in the health budget. Indeed, all of the studies that have been carried out — including by the Nuffield Foundation, which the Department brought in to look at Transforming Your Care — identified that the programme could be funded from the Department’s resources because it would release savings. I interrogated the Health Minister on whether that is possible and whether he can show what moneys can be made available from his budget for this.

Secondly, with any proposal, the actual savings have to be identified, and, at this stage, it was not clear what the savings were. Thirdly, since we knew that we were setting up the invest-to-save fund, that was probably the more appropriate mechanism through which any bid of this nature could be made. The Health Minister is a proactive Minister, so I expect that he will look at the points that I made to him and investigate how he can satisfy those queries and make a bid. The Transforming Your Care initiative is important in the long run to enabling the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to live within its budget. If additional investment is required to deliver those savings, he will not be turned away. As with any other bid, he will have to give answers to the kinds of questions that have been posed to him and which I have indicated to the Member.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I will raise two issues on the Minister’s statement. I take it that the £6·5 million for the UK City of Culture is additional funding. What is the total budget for that?

Furthermore, the Minister of the Environment submitted a bid for financial assistance to deal with RPA. I am disappointed that there will be no funding for that, and I suspect that the Minister who is charge of that will use it to go at his usual snail’s pace in the delivery of RPA. It is patently obvious that there are issues that need to be addressed. The Minister himself mentioned the lack of joint services, and that is a big missing gap here. Is there anything that he can do to ensure that joint services are looked at to provide RPA by 2014? I think that that is getting very doubtful.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

On DCAL’s bid for the UK City of Culture, a lot of money has been poured in through infrastructure and support for programmes. I cannot give the Member the figure off the top of my head, but DCAL, DSD and the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister have all put money into the City of Culture bid. I know that some people are sceptical of these events and everything else, but I visited Londonderry recently, and there is a great buzz and enthusiasm about the place. Businesses are looking at how they can capitalise on it and ensure that there will be a legacy after it is all over. It is good that the success in being named UK City of Culture has added to the enthusiasm and brought some confidence to the area. Only yesterday, Mr Humphrey mentioned the impact that spending money on events had had on Belfast and that occupancy of hotel bed spaces was up to around 85%. He said that 15,000 people are involved in the hospitality industry. Money spent on this is not wasted if it produces that kind of outcome and, more importantly, leaves a legacy. However, I cannot give the Member the exact figure that has been spent already.

I have explained the RPA issue. The Executive’s decision is that councils should fund that themselves. The Minister has been invited to bring a paper to allow the Executive to decide whether they want to revise that opinion in total or in part and, if they were to revise it, how they would decide how funding might be made available. However, it is still my contention that, given the savings that exist in this, and given the impact that it will have on the job that local councillors do — RPA will present councillors with fantastic opportunities to influence things in their own area — an investment of less than £100,000 for each council, at this stage, is not a huge investment to expect councils to make.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I, too, thank the Minister for his statement. As he knows, I was not here during the previous mandate but, even as a relative outsider, I was aware of the anticipation in many quarters for the arrival of the green new deal. Although I welcome the recent introduction of the boiler replacement scheme, even though some people considered that it was a bit late, does the Minister accept that the original green new deal, even in its later forms when it concentred on retrofitting, was about much more than just replacing inefficient boilers? Will he confirm that its wider aspirations remain on the table, perhaps for future consideration and progress? If that is the case, when might we anticipate such progress?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I am sure that the Member would not expect us to spend money on things where there was not value for money, a good return and a business case that showed that the money was being well spent. The truth of the matter is that when the details of the green new deal were run through a business case, and when we looked at the benefits and the costs involved and whether it presented value for money, it did not stack up. Therefore, we decided that that was not how the money would be spent.

We do believe, however, that the boiler scrappage scheme will deal with a whole range of issues, including fuel poverty and the efficient use of fuel at a time when fuel costs are spiralling. It would also enable many of the households that find themselves under pressure at present to benefit from a more up-to-date heating system. Therefore, it was decided to put the money into something that was tried and tested rather than into a scheme that did not stack up in money terms.

I am sure that there will be a return to this, but if, in the future, some additional measures can be brought forward that make economic sense, of course we will not turn those away. The green new deal was a nice catchphrase, and nobody really looked at the economic details in the way that they should have done. It caught on for a while, but hard economic reality requires us to look at these schemes and ensure that we get value for money.

Executive Committee Business

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I call on the Minister of Finance and Personnel to move the Consideration State of the Budget (No. 2) Bill.

Moved. — [Mr Wilson (The Minister of Finance and Personnel).]

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

No amendments have been tabled to the Bill. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to group the eight clauses of the Bill for the Question on stand part, followed by four schedules and the long title.

Clauses 1 to 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules 1 to 4 agreed to.

Long title agreed to.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That concludes the Consideration Stage of the Budget (No. 2 Bill). The Bill stands referred to the Speaker.

The Business Committee has arranged to meet immediately upon the lunchtime suspension. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. When we return, the first item of business will be Question Time.

The sitting was suspended at 12.30 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair) —

Social Development

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

1. asked the Minister for Social Development to outline his Department’s plans for a new homelessness strategy. (AQO 2254/11-15)

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

My Department introduced the Housing (Amendment) Act (Northern Ireland) 2010, which placed a duty on the Northern Ireland Housing Executive to formulate and publish a homelessness strategy. The strategy was launched on 1 May 2012 at an event at the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action (NICVA), which I attended and spoke at. The strategy covers 2012 to 2017 and has the guiding principle to end rough sleeping in Northern Ireland. It has four key objectives on homelessness prevention and services. Allied to those objectives are 38 recommendations, which will be delivered in the implementation plan that has been developed to accompany the strategy over the next five years. The four strategic objectives of the strategy are to place homelessness prevention at the forefront of service delivery; to reduce the length of time households and individuals experience homelessness by improving access to affordable housing; to remove the need to rough sleep; and to improve services to vulnerable homeless households and individuals. The aim of the homelessness strategy is that long-term homelessness and rough sleeping is eliminated across Northern Ireland by 2020. The strategy aims to ensure that the risk of a person becoming homeless will be minimised through effective preventative measures and enhanced interagency co-operation and services to the most vulnerable homeless households.

The promoting social inclusion homelessness partnership is a cross-departmental and cross-sectoral group, chaired at deputy secretary level in my Department. The group not only helped to shape the final make-up of the strategy but will also play a crucial role in delivering many of the key action points. The Housing Executive and the housing division in the Department for Social Development (DSD) have appeared together before the Committee for Social Development, twice in the past 12 months, to explain the rationale behind the strategy and the means by which it will be delivered. They are keen to continue to keep the Committee fully informed.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer. I welcome the input of the voluntary housing sector. Will the Housing Executive be able to track the thousands of young people who present themselves as homeless and yet seem to be turned away? Will he reiterate the fact that housing allocation is on the basis of objective need?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I will take the second point first. Of course housing allocation will be on the basis of need. There is no doubt about that.

The first question was about tracking and information. The current Housing Executive mechanisms make it difficult to track and follow through to get the hard information that we need to keep us better informed so that the development of strategies and policies are based on evidence. I have been working with the Housing Executive to ensure that we get more robust information in the future.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I remind Members that it is one question per Member.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

What role, if any, does the Minister envisage the community and voluntary sector playing in the strategy?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The community and voluntary sector clearly plays a key role in a number of areas. I visited some organisations, including at least one in the Member’s constituency and some in my own constituency, that provide services to people who are homeless, including rough sleepers. Those organisations do immensely valuable work, which we fully support through the Department. Housing associations fall into that general category, and they are at the forefront of house building. There is certainly a key role for the sector in providing support and services to people who are homeless and in ensuring that we move forward with a good house-building programme.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. I welcome the strategy. Will the Minister explain in more detail how the strategy is to be implemented?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Housing Executive’s homelessness strategy has within it 38 action points that are to be fulfilled by 2017, at the latest. Depending on their relative urgency and complexity, each has been allocated a specific year by which it should be fulfilled, and that progress will be carefully monitored.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

2. asked the Minister for Social Development how the newbuild social housing targets and the affordable housing targets will be met in 2012-13, particularly in the north Down area. (AQO 2255/11-15)

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Programme for Government contained a commitment to deliver 8,000 new social and affordable homes over the four-year period, 2011-12 to 2014-15. Work is well under way to deliver those targets. During that four-year period, over £564 million will be made available, of which £461 million will be for social housing and £103·25 million for affordable housing. That will not only deliver more new homes; it will play an important role in sustaining work in the construction industry.

In North Down, 380 units are programmed to start in the next three years, with 131 due to start in this financial year. In the previous financial year, 50 new homes were started and 25 completed, and a total of 97 new homes were on site at 31 March 2012.

Affordable homes are demand-led and cannot be identified as the Member requests. However, in the past financial year, the Northern Ireland Co-Ownership Housing Association has received £28·25 million of funding from my Department, which, in conjunction with private finance resources, supported the purchase of 643 affordable homes, which is 30% more than in the previous year. Early indications are that demand remains buoyant in this financial year, and I will continue to keep the situation under review to ensure all efforts are made to meet that demand where the budget permits.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Can the Minister enlighten us as to what alternatives he is looking at in relation to providing affordable housing?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The new housing strategy, which I hope to issue shortly, will outline future priorities for investment in housing, including how we may expand the delivery of affordable homes. However, my officials have already commenced work with the housing associations to bring forward new affordable housing opportunities to complement the work of the Co-Ownership Housing Association.

A number of urban and rural project proposals, such as the surplus land projects, are under early consideration. If approved, they will offer a real opportunity to boost the construction industry and make more affordable homes available.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

The Programme for Government proposes that 4,600 new social homes will be constructed between 2012-13 and 2014-15, but the net stock model indicated the need for 1,900 new homes to be built each year, in addition to another 600 to bridge previous years’ shortfalls. Does the Minister now dispute the net stock model?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

That is a point that has been raised on a number of occasions. I think that it is important to stress that housing need will not be met simply through the provision of social housing. We need to look at the private market as well. That is why we need to make sure that the private sector is a much more appealing prospect going forward. It is also why the registration of landlords, and all the things that will flow from that, are particularly important. It should not be seen as a second-best option. We need to look at how we can provide the maximum amount of social housing; how we can ensure that the private sector contributes to the housing demand; and how we can assist more people to get them into the position of being able to purchase an affordable home.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

How many apartments were bought in the last financial year to make up the social housing development programme? Does the Minister agree that the purchase of those units, some of which have lain for years, does nothing for the construction industry, which has shed thousands of jobs over the same period?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I do not have that figure to hand, but I will supply that number to the Member. It is one way in which you can remove property from the empty situation and get it occupied. Such properties, whether they are homes that have been lying empty for a long period over years or whether they are newbuilds but unoccupied, can help to meet housing need. There is no doubt about that, and it is providing people with a home. I am sure the Member will agree that that is a good thing.

As regards the construction industry, if, as a result of this, a developer is in a better financial position, that may enable him to move forward to other developments, as opposed to being stuck, unable to do any development work at all. Therefore, it is not as simple as the Member suggests. We are certainly keen, and that is why we are pushing affordable homes. That is a direct kick-start for the construction sector, and that is necessary at this time.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

3. asked the Minister for Social Development for an update on the audit that he commissioned into the Northern Ireland Housing Executive’s management of maintenance contracts. (AQO 2256/11-15)

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

Last year, I became increasingly concerned that the issues that led to the termination of the Red Sky contract by the Housing Executive in July 2011 may be present in other contracts that had not been the subject of any full investigation. I asked for a forensic investigation to be carried out of a sample of Housing Executive maintenance contracts, including those of the contractors to whom the Red Sky contract was reassigned on its termination on 14 July 2011. That is to provide me with assurances in relation to: ensuring the issues that led to the termination of the Red Sky contract are not present in other response maintenance contracts; the provision of the best possible value-for-money services to Housing Executive tenants; and the appropriate use of public funds.

The investigation has been carried out, and it considered, amongst other things: the quality of the workmanship undertaken; whether the invoices submitted by the contractors and paid by the Housing Executive were appropriate within the context of the work requested and the work actually carried out; whether the inspection regime in place in the Housing Executive operated as expected; whether the key controls in place to manage contracts — to ensure that the quality of works undertaken is monitored and price variations are identified, valued and approved — are adequate and operate effectively; a classification of any financial anomalies identified during round 1, which involved contractors assigned to the Red Sky contract, and round 2 inspections, which involved other contractors; and an extrapolation of any findings from round 1 and round 2 to determine the possible level of any overcharging or errors. That investigation work has now been completed, and I am due to meet the Housing Executive later this afternoon. The final report will be due on 29 June 2012, which is this Friday, and I am sure that it is eagerly awaited.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Given the importance of maintenance contracts to Housing Executive tenants, I am sure that the Minister will agree that their proper management is absolutely critical. He has outlined some improvements that are required, which will require fundamental change in the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. Does the Minister have confidence in the Housing Executive’s ability to develop a culture change in that organisation to make those improvements?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Member raises a fundamental issue. I already have concerns in relation to the effective and timely implementation by the Housing Executive of the recommendations made in the 2010 governance review. My permanent secretary has met the chief executive and the chairman of the Housing Executive to discuss his concerns about contract management and what the Housing Executive is doing to ensure the effective and timely implementation of those recommendations. I intend to raise those issues with the chairman at a forthcoming performance review meeting. Almost 12 months ago, I met the chairman and the acting chief executive of the Housing Executive in the context of Red Sky. I asked for assurances, and I was given assurances about other contractors. The evidence that is now emerging raises very serious questions about the assurances that I was given by the chairman and the acting chief executive. I take that very seriously because they both sat in my office and gave me those assurances personally. The investigation that has been carried out has been thorough.

The Housing Executive will have to be afforded an opportunity to consider the findings in order to formulate a response. Contractors will also have to have an opportunity to consider the findings and comments in due course. The information being uncovered is, I think, quite alarming.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Does the Minister agree that organisations such as Red Sky sometimes seem to be like the tail wagging the dog? They seem to have something over senior members of staff in the Housing Executive. When officers in the Housing Executive were trying to put a halt to some bad practice, they were moved out of their district office. Does he agree that that was wrong and should never happen again?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. It raises a fundamental issue that I touched on: it is becoming increasingly clear — it was actually clear last year to some extent, but the scale is now much clearer — that the issues that arose in regard to Red Sky are present in quite a number of contractors. There are shortcomings not only in the service provided to tenants but in the monitoring, management and inspection of work. In the past, somebody signed off work that did not even happen in a place that did not even exist. I do not know how they ever managed to sign it off.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as na freagraí sin. I thank the Minister for his replies. This question is based on personal experience in my constituency. I listened very carefully as the Minister talked about the quality of the workmanship and the monitoring of improvements to homes inhabited by tenants. What is the role and function of his Department specifically in regard to housing associations and the quality of the work they deliver on the ground for tenants?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

My Department is responsible for overseeing and monitoring housing associations. Of course, the Member will be aware that, in more recent times, there has been a much more hands-on approach to the oversight of housing associations after quite a number of them had their development status removed because of shortcomings in a whole range of areas. Work is now being done with housing associations in a range of ways. We are also talking directly to the Northern Ireland Federation of Housing Associations about ensuring, as far as possible, that there is really good practice in housing associations. So, there is a key issue with housing associations.

The question was actually about the Housing Executive. When you bear in mind that these major contracts are extremely expensive and that large amounts of public money are being spent on them, you can see that we need to be absolutely sure that there is value for money and that charges are not made for work that was never carried out or was carried out improperly, inadequately or whatever. I am determined to ensure that there is a value for money. That is why we will be engaging very thoroughly and fully with the Housing Executive over the next number of weeks and months and why, I think, others share my concerns.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Has the investigation looked into or found out whether there are efficient and effective ways of putting in double glazing so that there is less disturbance to families in future?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I have seen examples of double glazing installed by a number of contractors. In one case, it was so well done that you could put your hand around the frame and see your fingers on the other side of the window — that is how well it was done. In some cases, I have seen windows that were practically butchered during installation. So, there are real questions about the quality of the workmanship. The nature of the installation of windows is a separate piece of work that is being carried forward at the moment. I think that there is a way of doing it that will save us millions of pounds and enable us to do far more maintenance work in areas where there is a great need for it. There is no point in unnecessarily chipping out plaster and replacing it.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

4. asked the Minister for Social Development to outline his Department’s plans to tackle disadvantage in communities. (AQO 2257/11-15)

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The 2012-13 business plan sets out what the Department plans to achieve over the next 12 months. Housing, welfare reform, strengthened communities and vibrant urban areas are the Department’s priorities. The objectives in the plans are, first, to provide access to decent, affordable, sustainable homes and housing support services; secondly, to meet the needs of the most vulnerable by tackling disadvantage through a transformed social welfare system, the provision of focused support to the most disadvantaged areas and encouraging social responsibility; and, thirdly, to bring divided communities together by creating urban centres that are sustainable, welcoming and accessible for living, working and relaxing in peace.

The Department has measures in place that focus on tackling disadvantage in communities. Neighbourhood renewal assists the most disadvantaged communities by seeking to reduce the social and economic inequalities that characterise those areas. Neighbourhood renewal partnerships are fundamental to the delivery of the programme. I will, therefore, launch a code of practice in the coming weeks that seeks to build on best practice and to assist partnerships generally in building their capacity to deliver neighbourhood renewal in their area.

That is based upon extensive contact engagement with neighbourhood renewal partnerships across the Province and some excellent examples of really good practice that we want to learn from; we want to ensure that other areas learn and benefit from them as well.

My Department also provides a wide range of support to individuals, families and households through the provision of decent and affordable housing; action to address fuel poverty; the delivery of child maintenance arrangements; comprehensive social security provisions, including the delivery of a major welfare reform agenda; and supporting the voluntary and community sector.

The Department is taking forward measures aimed at addressing long-standing issues with the existing welfare system, the most significant of which is universal credit. Universal credit is intended to ensure that work always pays, addressing poverty through tackling worklessness and benefit dependency; it will also contribute to wider and longer-term economic and societal benefits.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a chuid freagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for his answers to date. However, with rising unemployment, proposed cuts to housing benefit and thousands losing incapacity benefit, will the Minister assure the House that objective need is to the fore in allocating resources?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I believe entirely that the allocation of resources has to be evidence-based, and based on meeting the needs of the most disadvantaged communities. The Member speaks of a whole range of measures that are coming down the line towards us. The important thing is that we do what we can to make sure that we get the best outcome for the people of Northern Ireland, and that is a challenge that will face us over the autumn and winter period as we move forward with welfare reform.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

On the issue of welfare reform, will the Minister outline the measures taken to ensure that those who are legitimately entitled to benefits get them?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Member makes a valid and valuable point. Improving the uptake of benefits remains a key priority for the Department. Almost £40 million in additional benefits and arrears has been generated for people across Northern Ireland since 2005. This year, another 25,000 customers will be contacted directly with an invitation to receive a full and confidential benefit assessment. A wide-ranging, multi-channel promotional campaign will accompany the direct targeting approach. The Social Security Agency will continue to work with community and other partners to encourage uptake and will focus on customer groups that, current research shows, are most vulnerable and at risk of poverty. A long-term benefit uptake strategy will be launched for consultation later this year.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I am very pleased to hear the Minister praise the work of neighbourhood renewal partnerships. Why is the social investment fund not given to some of those partnerships rather than reinventing the wheel and setting up steering groups to implement the fund?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Member is aware that the social investment fund is an initiative that came through the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM). We are now under way. It is important that, rather than looking back, we look forward and see what we can do to maximise the results and outcomes and also to ensure that there is complementarity between what is undertaken in neighbourhood renewal and what is undertaken in commitments by the social investment fund. Neighbourhood renewal should not simply be related to the social investment fund. Neighbourhood renewal should be related to all Departments, whether Education, Health or whatever, so that we have a holistic, comprehensive approach to addressing disadvantage.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

5. asked the Minister for Social Development what action his Department has taken to promote awareness of the proposed changes to the welfare system for individuals with complex needs and disabilities. (AQO 2258/11-15)

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I previously highlighted the importance that I attach to my Department being seen to communicate proactively with the people of Northern Ireland on the proposed changes to the welfare system and what they mean for individuals. I am also conscious that we have a higher proportion of our population in receipt of disability living allowance and a different profile, particularly in relation to mental health. I am committed to raising awareness and understanding of the proposed reforms with all audience groups.

Across all the different reforms, there are plans to co-ordinate and manage communications and stakeholder engagement as the Welfare Reform Bill makes its journey through the Assembly. Officials continually engage with customer representative groups to explain the changes proposed by the Welfare Reform Bill through a series of conferences, workshops and meetings. I have participated in a number of those and taken the opportunity to engage with individual customers and customer representatives.

The personal independence payment (PIP) project has established a specific forum for disability groups and members of the voluntary and community sector to provide information on that payment. The forum consists of a network of over 60 different organisations, and seven successful meetings have been held to date, which ensures that the particular circumstances of individual groups are represented and factored into the design of the new benefit. The forum recently held a meeting to discuss the proposed forms and letters that will be used in the PIP process. Feedback obtained from that meeting was shared with colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions.

Individual disability organisations have also been offered the opportunity to avail themselves of one-to-one meetings to address a wider cross section of individuals in the organisation concerned. Many organisations have availed themselves of that. There have been staff awareness sessions on the introduction of PIP, the purpose of which is to ensure that front line staff have a full understanding of the issues when dealing with customers with a disability or complex needs.

In April 2012, my Department published on its website a consultation document, ‘DLA Reform and Personal Independence Payment: Completing the Detailed Design’. Individuals and organisations have been asked to consider the proposals and to respond.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Your time is up, Minister.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I welcome the Minister’s lengthy and unfinished response to my question. Does the Minister acknowledge that, across the range of all-party groups on health and disability matters, the main issue is the fear, worry and concern of disabled people and their families about welfare reform? Will he assure the House that there will be intensive consultation with individuals and those representing disabled people with complex needs to make sure that there is a clear understanding of their concerns and worries?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for the question. I assure him that, to date, the organisations that have taken up the opportunity — I ran out of time for this bit — include Mencap; the Northern Ireland Association for Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus; Disability Action; the National Autistic Society; the Northern Ireland ME Association; the Southern Health and Social Care Trust sensory disability team; the East Belfast Independent Advice Centre; and the Multiple Sclerosis Society. So there has been wide consultation, which we need to continue as the process moves ahead.

I will pick up on the Member’s point about fear. There are legitimate and understandable worries, because people, particularly those who have a disability or complex needs, become concerned about change. It does not help the situation at all that people make unfounded or alarmist suggestions that are not based on fact, of which there have been a number of examples in the past. That distorts and diverts the conversation that needs to take place and creates unnecessary fears among people who are already very vulnerable.

Agriculture and Rural Development

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

1. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development for her assessment of the GROW South Antrim programme. (AQO 2269/11-15)

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

13. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development for an update on axis 3 of the rural development programme. (AQO 2281/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 1 and 13 together. Generating Rural Opportunities Within (GROW) South Antrim is one of seven competitively selected local action groups (LAGs) delivering axis 3 of the rural development programme across the rural North, using the LEADER methodology, which empowers local people to address local problems with local solutions.

Presently, axis 3, which has a budget of £100 million, has achieved an investment of £27·7 million. Within that, GROW, with an allocation of £8·9 million, has received 351 applications and has issued 101 letters of offer with a total grant value of £2·8 million. Forty three of those projects have been completed, and a grant totalling £721,000 has been paid. A further 11 applications seeking grant assistance of over £1·1 million have been approved by the JCCs for the issue of letters of offer, and the GROW LAG is processing a further 16 applications seeking grant assistance of almost £1 million.

I will be visiting my colleague Pat Sheehan’s constituency to view for myself some of the successful projects that have been completed and are under way in rural west Belfast. It is important that such areas, which were previously excluded from the rural development programme, use the funds available to improve the quality of life for the rural dwellers who live and work there.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer thus far. Although we welcome the very successful uptake of the village renewal grants, I am concerned that the business creation element has struggled to reach its full potential and has created an underspend. What actions, Minister, have you taken or do you intend to take, considering that most of the problem lies with banks not lending to new businesses in relation to match funding?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member makes a valid point. Some measures are obviously spending out better than others, so, as part of the way forward in ensuring that we maximise spend, the one area we are looking at is around strategic projects. That is just one element of what we are trying to do, but the local groups also have the opportunity to move money to the better spending measures, and they are actively doing that.

We recently agreed the implementation plans for 2012-13, which include some of the measures that you are talking about, particularly around basic services and village renewal, as they are very high spending measures. We want to ensure that we maximise the spend.

I have also met the main banks to talk about issues around match funding, so they are aware of the issue. They have given us contact points so that we are able to talk to them if people encounter particular issues when they are trying to achieve match funding.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

What is the Minister’s assessment of the level of grant funding available for stand-alone renewable energy projects? Is she concerned that, given that such projects cannot be used to reduce farm running costs, some farmers may be discouraged from applying?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I do not have the figures for the stand-alone energy projects with me, but I am happy to provide that information to the Member in writing. We are doing all that we can to promote renewable energy. The Executive have a Programme for Government commitment to increase the use of renewable energy to 20%. Those are very challenging targets, but I think that farmers are a key target group of people who could use renewable energy for beneficial purposes. I am happy to forward the figures on stand-alone energy projects and their uptake to the Member.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

2. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development what lessons have been learnt from the delivery of the 2011 single farm payment scheme to ensure that applications and payments to farmers are processed more quickly this year. (AQO 2270/11-15)

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

3. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development whether remote sensing satellite imagery can be used to fast-track the inspection process for single farm payments. (AQO 2271/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I will answer questions 2 and 3 together.

I am aware that the 2011 inspection cases took longer to complete and finalise for payment than in previous years. Although I am pleased that the Department has met its targets on making single farm payments, I am conscious that later payment can add to difficult financial situations that some people find themselves in. As far as the remaining cases are concerned, I understand that interest has been paid in the past where single farm payments remained unpaid at 1 July. I have asked my officials to arrange to make such interest payments where appropriate.

I have taken forward a number of initiatives to improve the speed at which payments are made in future years. For example, land eligibility inspections relating to the 2012 application year started four weeks earlier this year than they did last year. This significantly earlier start was made possible by the intensive development of IT and business systems as well as increasing the number of inspection staff who were trained and equipped prior to the start of the inspection process. Those inspectors have been deployed at this early stage to take advantage of the generally better weather that we see at this time of the year. Although it is perhaps not that way at the moment, the weather and field conditions are generally better at this time of year. Importantly, it provides a longer window of opportunity for the completion of inspections in order to make payments to more inspected businesses earlier in the payment cycle.

Earlier this month, I announced my intention to introduce the use of satellite imagery for approximately 250 land eligibility inspections in the 2012 campaign. Not only will that be a less disruptive method of inspections but the use of that remote sensing should improve the prospects of early completion of inspections in future years. I am aware that there has been an increased use of remote sensing among other member states over the past number of years. I am also aware of a recent ‘Irish News’ article which expressed concerns about remote satellite imagery being used to spy on farmers. I assure the House that that is not the case. It is an alternative way to carry out inspections, and it is designed to speed up the whole inspection process.

Looking ahead, I plan to issue a new LPIS map to claimants in time for the 2013 claim year. Those maps, which will also be made available online, should be very helpful to farmers and will enable them to submit accurate single farm payment applications. Farmers can also help themselves by using the Department’s single application online service.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Time is up, Minister.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I want to point out that there was an increase in that for next year.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Given the existence of satellite-based aerial imaging, why is it necessary to spend more money on technology-based inspection systems in Northern Ireland?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

One of the reasons for the delay this year was the inspection process and the length of time that it took to gather information. Remote sensing will obviously speed that up and mean that the information is more easily obtained by the inspectors and can be applied. It will also mean fewer on-site visits. Anything that speeds up the process is to be welcomed. If you are a farmer who is sitting waiting on single farm payment because inspection findings are yet to be applied, I think you will welcome the fact that we intend to increase our use of remote sensing.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Mr Chris Hazzard for a supplementary.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Can the Minister outline how remote sensing actually works?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Sorry, I have to call Mrs Brenda Hale first.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Will this inspection process using of satellite imagery, if implemented, rule out infraction fines or make us more open to them?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said, there has been an increased use of satellite imagery across Europe, and it has become a lot more popular. There were some problems at the start, particularly around weather and climates and whether or not, when taking your image, you would be able to identify scrub and other features. A lot of work has been done with the Commission to bring it on board with the imagery that we will use. I think that that is positive, and I would not suggest that we will face infraction because of the use of satellite imagery.

We are going through the whole LPIS remapping process. That is a massive piece of work, remapping 750,000 fields. Remote imaging will add to the value of having up-to date, accurate maps, which is what the Commission had problems with in the past.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I can now call you, Chris.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith míle agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the Minister outline how remote sensing will work?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It is a way of carrying out on-the-spot checks. Basically, a photograph is taken by satellite, and we are able, back in the offfice, to analyse the information on the fields that has been gathered by the satellite.

As I said in a previous answer, the methodology has been developed by the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre, which proves that the Commission is on board with the use of that type of technology. The technology is tried and tested, and I think that it is a very positive development. We hope to use the technology on 250 inspection cases next year, but the long-term aim is to roll it out across the board. That will obviously lead to a speeded-up inspection process.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

4. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development for an update on what her Department is doing to address youth unemployment in rural areas. (AQO 2272/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Through the tackling poverty and social isolation framework, my Department is supporting two rural youth initiatives aimed at increasing employability and promoting entrepreneurship among the young unemployed in rural areas. Through the youth employability programme — marketed as BOOST — unemployed rural young people will have the opportunity to develop skills, to increase their employability and to improve their chances of securing a job. The programme includes face-to- face workshops, an interactive support package, access to a network of employment mentors and the provision of industry-endorsed certification from the Federation of Small Businesses on completion. Boost will target almost 1,500 unemployed young people by working with partner agencies such as the job centre networks, libraries, the Rural Development Council, the rural support networks, local action groups, local councils, the enterprise agencies, rural colleges and sports centres.

I am also supporting the rural youth entrepreneurship (RYE) programme, which aims to develop business potential among vulnerable young people in rural areas. These areas will be identified using multiple deprivation criteria and will recruit 600 vulnerable young people onto the programme by undertaking various outreach events and workshops in the areas identified. The RYE programme will create the foundations for the development of future rural businesses through upskilling, networking, mentoring and the sharing of ideas to stimulate business creation.

I am confident that these innovative initiatives will help to address the problem of youth unemployment in rural areas and, in doing so, also help to reduce rural youth migration and increase the sustainability of rural communities.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer. Such work is important if we are to arrest the problems around emigration that affect many rural communities, particularly those families steeped in the construction sector tradition. What areas will be targeted through these programmes and how will they be targeted?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The Member is absolutely right: a lot of our communities are being emptied out, with young people travelling to different countries just to get work. Barry McElduff would support me in that. We know of many rural communities in Tyrone that would have problems even fielding a GAA club team. Those are the issues that we need to address. The rural youth employability programme, Boost, will target 1,500 unemployed young people in rural areas right across the North. That programme will include a marketing and promotion campaign in rural areas, through which Advantage will engage with more than 350 partner agencies, such as those outlined in my initial answer.

It is important that we work in partnership with all the groups that have an interest in maintaining rural communities. Everybody has a role to play, particularly local councils, enterprise agencies, rural cottage industries, etc. They will also really help us to target young people who are in their agencies and coming to their services. Through those agencies, we have the opportunity to disseminate all the information throughout the rural network and make sure that it is readily available.

The rural youth entrepreneurship programme will target young people living in deprived rural areas across the North. Those areas were identified by the Rural Development Council using the multiple deprivation criteria. The RDC proposed to recruit 600 vulnerable young people to the programme by undertaking various outreach events in workshops in identified areas.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

What is the Minister’s rationale in deciding to support an eating disorders clinic at Tullyallen Road, Dungannon, and to throw the weight of her Department behind this controversial planning application?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I fail to see what the supplementary question has to do with the main question.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

It is to do with the rural economy.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Mrs Jo-Anne Dobson.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

Given the unique difficulties that those living in rural communities already have to overcome, such as reduced public transport connections and the distance to many basic services, will the Minister give her assessment of the importance that adequate primary school provision offers to the sustainability of the local community? Is she concerned about the Education Minister’s feared plan to close many rural schools, regardless of individual circumstances, under the cover of the much-disputed viability audit?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The rural White Paper action plan is a key document in addressing the varied needs of a rural community, moving forward. It is an Executive initiative, led by the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, that looks at all the issues, particularly those of rural transport, rural unemployment, education and all other services. This week, I will officially launch the rural White Paper action plan, which shows key Executive commitments from all the other Ministers, because looking after rural communities is the remit of not just this Department but all Departments.

The Education Minister is committed to making sure that he looks after young people who live in rural communities. He is very committed to making sure that he looks at rural communities’ needs, which is why he argued very strongly that setting the criteria should not be a numbers game and that all the other factors should be taken into account, particularly the links with the local community. That is because, quite often, a school can be the centre of a rural community. So, I am not fearful for the future of rural primary schools, and I think that the criteria are there to make sure that they are looked after.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I remind Members that questions must be relevant and should not be read out. I now call Mr Pat Ramsey, who, no doubt, will speak from the heart.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for her replies so far. Given the high numbers of young people across Northern Ireland who are NEET, is your Department doing anything to target them by increasing the number of on-farm job opportunities for young people who are interested in farming?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We have a particular strategy, and you will be aware that our agriculture and food colleges are oversubscribed by young people who want to work in the industry. So, I think that that is key to the success of the industry. The Agri-food Strategy Board, which has now been established, is looking at the key challenges for the entire industry and each of its sectors. The board will also look at young people’s skills and employment needs. So, although we have a programme of work, I think that there is still lots to be done. We now have an economic strategy, and I will do my bit to tackle rural unemployment, particularly by working with young people. I think that the Executive can collectively make a difference.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

5. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline her Department’s definition of “eligible strategic project”, following her decision that clusters should make open calls for strategic projects to underpin and realise strategic spend. (AQO 2273/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

In December, I announced a refocus for axis 3 that was driven in part by low project spend and high administrative spend. All areas have now examined their progress and have agreed to refocus by reallocating funds both to higher investment measures and larger strategic projects. Indeed, all areas are now open for calls for strategic projects.

Local authorities, NGOs and the community sector, including social economy enterprises, will be eligible to apply for the strategic projects. For a project to be eligible, it must be ready to go; in other words, there must be no impediments to its ability to start before the end of April 2013 and the project must be completed by 2014. There are other elements to the full criteria, which all areas published when they went to the press to open their calls. I am happy to get the Member a copy of those criteria if he so wishes.

The local action groups will make the decisions under the LEADER methodology, and it is up to them, not DARD officials, to determine what fits the strategic criteria.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

Now that the criteria have been set, I hope that they will be kept, because the goalposts for some of these projects have been moved before. How will the Department support clusters that have limited unapproved funding available so that letters of offer for approved strategic projects are issued and viable projects can be moved to implementation quickly?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The principle behind all this is that we do not send money back to Europe, so I am committed to making sure that the money that we have is spent with the best value in support of our rural communities. You talked about a number of initiatives, and I think that strategic projects are very important. Once the criteria are published, the goalposts cannot be changed, so I hope that that reassures you somewhat.

We are doing a number of things. As I said, strategic projects are very important. We have just agreed the implementation plans for clusters for the year ahead, and part of that will look at the measures for which spending is better than for others and at shifting some money around so that it is put into the better-spending measures. I am confident that a lot of hard work is being done. As you know, the JCCs work very hard to get their spend out. There is sometimes a concern that calls are closed and so forth, but that is not the case. If that is ever the case, it is only because there may be a backlog of applications that need to be dealt with. The idea is to get the letters of offer out, get the work started and get the money for the projects spent for the best value for the rural communities. So, we have a lot of work to do over the year ahead, but I think that the JCCs and the Department are up for it. I also think that, collectively, we can make sure that we get all the money spent for the best value for the rural community.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle, agus gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta as ucht a freagra. I thank the Minister for her answer. What examples of eligible projects is her Department considering? By that, I mean projects that might be termed strategic for clusters.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said in my initial answer, when the local areas published their call for strategic projects, they also published criteria, and it up to each local area to set its own criteria.

The most important thing to me is that the strategic projects that come forward be projects that can be delivered within the time frame set. Therefore, a lot of them are probably projects that people had already been thinking about or had started to work up. I suppose that the beauty of the strategic call is that, given the nature of the LEADER approach, the strategic projects for the area will be designed to meet the strategic needs identified for it.

The other beauty of it is that the level of funding has increased. Normally it is £250,000, but that has risen to £1 million. That allows projects to come forward that may not have been able to under the normal funding situation. I think that the closing date for applications for five of the cluster groups is on Friday. Therefore, through working in close conjunction with the JCCs, we will be in a better position next week to know the types of projects that will be coming forward.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Is it true that the Department has stopped clusters from opening new calls?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said earlier, it is not a case of closing people down or stopping any spend. As Minister, I have a role in the managing authority. The Department is the managing authority, but the LEADER approach dictates that the local areas will set their own strategic vision for what they want to achieve, and rightly so. They will set the criteria and assess the applications.

The only reason that I would ever get involved would be to say that it is not a good idea to open more calls because there is a pile so high on a table that needs to be assessed. It is very important to me that we get the letters of offer out to groups as quickly as possible so that they can start work and we can get the money spent in good time. That is the only time that we would get involved with the JCCs. The implementation plans that have now been agreed for 2012-13 clearly show that there is no issue with any cluster not being able to open calls.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

6. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline what her Department is doing to assist the small and medium-sized enterprise sector and the micro-business sector in rural areas. (AQO 2274/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My Department offers a wide range of assistance to small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and microbusiness sectors in rural areas. Under the processing and marketing grant (PMG) scheme, aid is available to SMEs involved in the processing of agrifood products. That financial support goes towards investments in capital infrastructure and the purchase of plant and equipment. The College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE), at its Loughry College campus, provides food technology services, including training programmes, to all food processing companies in the North. Those services include company-specific support, such as new product development; technical problem-solving; quality systems; and factory design. The Food Business Incubation Centre (FBIC) has eight rental units and provides start-up food manufacturing to support new and existing food-processing businesses. All units are currently full.

The supply chain development programme, through the rural development programme, is delivered on the ground by the Countryside Agri-Rural Partnership. The programme supports growers and supply chain partners to work together to improve their supply chains. Rural enterprise advisers facilitate farm families to establish new businesses or to expand existing diversified businesses on their farm. The range of support includes diversification awareness events; recruiting and mentoring for CAFRE diversification challenge programmes; and an invitation to business cluster networking events. Rural enterprise advisers will also support farm families with initial meetings to discuss their diversification ideas and provide assistance in the pursuit of project funding. That can provide the link to axis 3 funding available to farm diversification and microbusiness development projects, whereby applicants can apply for up to £50,000, which they match themselves pound for pound.

Along with the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, I have recently established the Agri-Food Strategy Board. It will be led by the industry, but it is the board’s job to develop a longer-term strategic vision for the sector and to make recommendations on how agrifood businesses can be supported to realise their full potential. Therefore, you can see that my Department offers a great deal of support to those sectors.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The agrifood sector is one of the good news stories of recent times. I was wondering, given the pressures that are on the sector, what measures the Department and the Minister can put in place to make sure that it remains sustainable and continues to grow.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for that question. Agrifood is doing really well, and it is important that we support the industry so that it continues to grow. Over the past number of years, through the economic decline, agrifood has continued to grow and continued to be very successful. The Agri-Food Strategy Board that I talked about is going to be the key strategy developer. That project is being taken forward by myself and the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.

In the Department, CAFRE management are reviewing and prioritising the existing programmes to make sure that they are in line with the industry needs. We are currently recruiting specialist food technologists to meet the increasing demands that we have.

I also remind Members that I have offered the strategic project opportunity in the context of weak economic growth. We talked earlier about the strategic projects that are coming forward, and it is important that we recognise that those projects are another opportunity for the rural communities and for the businesses involved.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

What communication has the Minister had with her counterpart the Minister of the Environment on the very serious issue of planning so that rural businesses are allowed to expand? That is a big issue in the rural communities.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I can confirm to the Member that I have had a meeting with the Environment Minister on that issue. The issue was raised at length in a debate in the Chamber, and other Members have raised it before. I have picked it up as an issue for the Environment Minister to consider and not just for rural businesses. There is range issues, such as signage, that we need to address if we are going to allow our rural communities to flourish and be sustainable in the future.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for her previous answers. In relation to job creation in rural areas, has the Minister conducted any conversations with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment on the development of anaerobic digesters in rural areas, which could create jobs and provide income for farmers in rural areas?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I will correct myself if I am wrong, but through the research challenge fund we have recently funded anaerobic digesters. One is operational, and there are three more to come, which is positive. There are quite a few others in the planning system. I absolutely agree with you about the benefit of them, particularly to the farming community, because it is another avenue of income for farmers to explore.

On job creation, I cannot remember the figure, but NIFDA published a report, and there are plans to create 25,000 jobs in the wider agrifood sector. That is very positive, and the strategy that we are developing is about looking at all of the challenges to the agrifood sector and at how industry and government can work together so that we lead forward in the most strategic fashion and make sure that we maximise the potential benefit.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Ceist uimhir a seacht le do thoil.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

7. asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline what action she is taking to implement the EU floods directive on a North/South basis. (AQO 2275/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My Department is the competent authority for the implementation of the European floods directive, and, through the work of Rivers Agency, the preliminary flood risk assessment was completed in December 2011.

The agency is producing flood risk and flood hazard maps for significant risk areas that are on target for the December 2013 legislative deadline, and it is starting the drafting of flood-risk management plans, which are required to be completed by 2015.

The competent authority for implementation of the floods directive in the South is the Office of Public Works. While carrying out the preliminary flood risk assessment, there was full co-operation and sharing of information between officials across the island. Although it has been identified that there are no significant flood risk areas that cross the border, there are three river basin catchments that need to be managed on an all-island basis: the Shannon, the Foyle/Erne and the Neagh/Bann systems.

Given that the vast majority of the Shannon catchment is in the South, the Office of Public Works is leading on the development of that flood risk management plan. For the other two catchments, co-operation is required to draft the flood risk management plans, and I met with Minister Hayes TD on 15 June to discuss that issue. I am pleased to announce that we have agreed a joined-up approach that will ensure that the flood risk is managed on a whole-catchment basis and demonstrate close working across this island to the European Commission.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I remind the Member that he did not translate his question.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The Minister understood that it was question 7, but for those who did not, it was question 7.

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive reply. Will the Minister confirm to the Assembly that substantive savings will accrue from this joined-up approach? The cost of implementation is an issue that constantly interests the Assembly.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I ask you to be very brief, Minister.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

OK. The approach that Minister Hayes and I have agreed will deliver cost savings to the Executive and right across the island. When it comes to procurement there are more areas that all Departments need to explore, and this is one small example. The actual amount that will be saved either by my Department or by the Office of Public Works will probably be modest, but there is so much more potential there, and we need to explore it.

Committee Business

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to two hours for this debate. The proposer will have 15 minutes to propose the motion and 15 minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who wish to speak will have seven minutes.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I beg to move

That this Assembly takes note of the following Public Accounts Committee Reports: Report on Campsie Office Accommodation and Synergy e-Business Incubator (01/10/11R); The Management of Substitution Cover for Teachers: Follow-up Report (20/10/11R); The Administration and Management of the Disability Living Allowance Reconsideration and Appeals Process (25/10/11R); Report on Arrangements for Ensuring the Quality of Care in Homes for Older People (39/10/11R); Measuring the Performance of NI Water (37/10/11R); Procurement and Governance in NI Water (40/10/11R); Improving Adult Literacy and Numeracy (60/10/11R); Report on Managing Criminal Legal Aid (NIA 20/11-15); Report on Reducing Water Pollution from Agricultural Sources – The Farm Nutrient Management Scheme (NIA 21/11-15); Report on Creating Effective Partnerships between Government and the Voluntary and Community Sector (NIA 24/11-15); Report on the Use of Locum Doctors by Northern Ireland Hospitals (NIA 37/11-15); and the following Department of Finance and Personnel Memoranda of Reply: Report on Campsie Office Accommodation and Synergy e-Business Incubator; The Management of Substitution Cover for Teachers: Follow-up Report; The Administration and Management of the Disability Living Allowance Reconsideration and Appeals Process; Measuring the Performance of NI Water; Procurement and Governance in NI Water; Report on Arrangements for Ensuring the Quality of Care in Homes for Older People; Improving Adult Literacy and Numeracy; Report on Managing Criminal Legal Aid; Report on Reducing Water Pollution from Agricultural Sources – The Farm Nutrient Management Scheme; Report on Creating Effective Partnerships between Government and the Voluntary and Community Sector; Report on the Use of Locum Doctors by Northern Ireland Hospitals.

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. On behalf of the Public Accounts Committee, I thank the Business Committee for allowing this take-note debate.

It is fitting to bring this body of work to the Assembly, as the Committee has been extremely busy since the previous such debate in 2010. I am proud to have held the post of Chairperson for the past four years and I am proud of the Committee’s work during that time, so I am glad of the opportunity to speak for the Committee today for the last time.

I am grateful for the support of the members of the Committee, past and present, who have worked so hard together and made our work meaningful and my job as Chairperson easier. The Committee staff have been second to none and have done a fabulous job, for which I thank them all.

If you will permit me to put a more personal slant on things, a LeasCheann Comhairle, I am proud to say that I was elected by the people of West Belfast. I do not need to stress to the Chamber the high level of socio-economic need in that area and the amount of work that has been done in the community to generate opportunities, jobs and investment, to develop skills and direction in the community, and to address trauma and poverty.

This has given me a particular sense of purpose as Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee. The Minister of Finance and Personnel sometimes says that I preach about our work, but I have been sent here by our people, who have experience of not having a great deal of money or the luxury of deciding how to spend it. That has given me a very human perspective on how taxpayers’ money should be spent responsibly. I have to speak the truth to enable their views to be heard and to deliver for them.

As you can see from the motion, the Committee has completed a wide variety of inquiries and reports in the past two years, ranging from the quality of care in homes for the elderly to the use of capital funds to prevent environmental impacts in agriculture. The members of the Committee and, I hope, other interested MLAs will focus on a selection of those reports.

Of course, we spent a considerable amount of time on performance, procurement and governance in NI Water, which I will come to shortly. In light of my earlier remarks, however, I will start with the inquiry into the effectiveness of partnerships between government and the community and voluntary sectors. In that inquiry, the Committee went out to the premises of NICVA in north Belfast, which is another area of social need and deprivation, to hear how government was using the community and voluntary sectors. I worked for many years in the community sector prior to my life in the Assembly, and I was concerned at what I heard from people in the sector about the impact of cuts on their organisations. It was already difficult to get sustainable core funding for the sector, and now, as I said at the evidence session, there is such uncertainty around funding that the sector is haemorrhaging good staff.

During the inquiry, we heard of instances where organisations have had to put staff on notice simply because public bodies were so slow in processing funding applications and releasing funds. In other cases, some staff worked without pay for a number of months while waiting on letters of offer to be signed and money to be released. It was evident to the Committee that there is an urgent need for a joined-up approach by public bodies and agencies, particularly in relation to funding. That will require new ways of thinking.

The Committee has recommended that all public sector bodies should move towards the adoption of long-term funding arrangements, stipulating that, where funding is dependent on the outcome of an evaluation, this must be planned for, completed and decisions communicated to the organisations three months before existing funding contracts run out. The Committee also commented that payments to sector organisations must be made in a timely manner, whether they are for the provision of contracted services or in respect of grant or grant aid. We understand that prompt payment arrangements are currently different for grant than for commercial goods and services contracts with government, but we have asked for those to be brought, as far as possible, in line with one another.

The Committee welcomes the proposed arrangement to report annually on the working of the concordat, and sees that as an opportunity to drive forward change and improve accountability. It has earmarked the report as high priority for follow-up, and will return to it in a year from the memorandum of reply (MOR) to see how progress is being made on the Committee’s recommendations.

The Committee’s investigation of procurement and governance in NI Water resulted in a landmark report that exposed serious failings in procurement, inappropriate and ineffective governance arrangements, and a failure to observe the high standards that are expected of senior public servants. We found that, at all levels in NI Water, there was a deeply embedded culture of thought that it was acceptable to bypass proper procurement rules. Between 2005 and 2010, procurement failures totalled £46 million. Abuse of single-tender awards was widespread, a large number of contract extensions went unapproved, and official controls were circumvented. The rules are there to ensure that contracts are awarded fairly and that they provide value for money and minimise the potential risk of fraud and corruption. Failure to follow the basic procurement rules is inexcusable.

We also found that the governance arrangements that were established by the Department for Regional Development (DRD) for NI Water represented the worst of all possible worlds. The governance model was devised for a self-financing commercial company; it was inadequate for a body whose income derived mainly from public funds. Departmental oversight of NI Water was also deficient. For example, for a significant period, DRD had no right to access key audit information about NI Water. DRD approved the appointment of the NI Water chair as interim chief executive, in direct contravention of the fundamental principle requiring the separation of roles and responsibilities at the top of any organisation. Proper oversight by the Department is essential for a public body that delivers a service of fundamental importance to the people here.

In January 2010, DRD’s permanent secretary and NI Water’s chief executive commissioned an independent review team to investigate governance arrangements at NI Water in light of procurement problems that were identified in a number of audit reports. Following the review, four of the five NI Water non-executive directors were dismissed. At our evidence session in July 2010, some members raised their concerns about the actions of the permanent secretary and the chief executive and the independence of the review team. The Committee then received correspondence from a member of the review team that criticised what they said was the Committee’s disgraceful line of questioning. It later emerged that the permanent secretary, Paul Priestly, had a role in drafting that letter. The conduct of Mr Priestly, in seeking to undermine the Committee, was utterly disgraceful. Mr Priestly was suspended from his position by the head of the Civil Service, and, following a disciplinary process, he was demoted and is currently on secondment to the private sector.

The actions of a number of senior officials in that case undoubtedly undermined confidence in the integrity of the public sector. In fact, it impacted on the relationship between the Committee and its witnesses; a relationship that I have always sought to develop through constructive engagement when problems arise. It is crucial that the Committee can count on having good faith and completeness from accounting officers, and it was of great concern that that standard had been compromised and breached. The Committee worked with the Finance Committee to ensure that systematic change could result from the case and improve the accountability arrangements between the Senior Civil Service and the Assembly. The Committee was not happy with the secrecy around the arrangements made for the official and sent a strong message that confidentiality agreements should not be made where the use of public money is concerned.

Transparency since the Freedom of Information Act is a reality that renders much of the old way obsolete, and that is good for public administration. I believe that we have brought issues of transparency and accountability into the light of day and made serious points about the expectations that the Committee must be able to rely on. The Committee has discussed with the head of the Civil Service his programme of accountability training for the Civil Service, and that is being rolled out. That is very welcome. I know that a strong public service ethic drives most people in the Civil Service, and I hope that cases that come to PAC are rare failures in a professional service. However, the pressure is on those at the top to lead by example and apply the highest standards in public life, and I hope that these tough conversations will give a solid basis for good work by government together with the PAC in the difficult economic times ahead. I look forward to the rest of the debate.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

You would probably need a lot more than seven minutes to go over the issues that we have had to discuss. Some of the reports that we have received are on sensitive issues, such as the one on locum doctors. How that has been managed and dealt with has created a problem. The appointment of internal locums is one point, but external locums are also brought in by private contract. The report alluded to that and identified that the locum approach did not necessarily give patients the best cover and care. It also identified that the costs associated with doing it far exceeded its benefits.

We felt that the locums who were appointed had no buy-in to keep continuity between the care that the patients were receiving. They could be in one hospital today and in another tomorrow. Therefore, some continuity was lost, and the care that patients received could be compromised because of that. The report also identified that some doctors who were working in a hospital could be brought back to act as a locum during another time when somebody else was off. Therefore, they could be creating a problem for themselves because they worked to what is called a European working time directive, which was to ensure that they did not exceed their hours of work. However, there was no mechanism to measure that, and it was up to the doctors to police it. Some — we are not saying all of them — probably far exceeded their working time directive, and they could have been working in one hospital on a shift and then moving to another hospital to do locum work. We identified a number of problems because of that.

The spend for the four years up to March 2011 was £74 million for the external and £35 million for the internal. It was extremely difficult to get a breakdown of that because trusts did not necessarily have the full information on where those costs came from, and it was not easy to extract some of that information. That was a way forward.

One of the recommendations was the introduction of a regional management and medical locum service. That has been taken on board, although there is a bit of a delay in its delivery. We believe that that should have been working internally, as trusts built up their own pool of locum doctors who could work and be called upon.

Registration was another key issue that caused major concern. We have all heard the horror stories about doctors coming in to work as locums who have been struck off or who have had malpractice cases go against them. That has created problems, not necessarily in Northern Ireland but in other areas. There were risks to patient safety from improper registration and details being held, and that had to be tightened up.

The PAC dealt with so many reports on which we could go into detail. We did a report on the farm nutrient management scheme, which seemed to be a way of driving public money. Under that scheme, someone estimated the value of a piece of land at £200 million and built a business case on why the slurry storage systems could be built to that value to spend that money. It was identified that that valuation was, more or less, done on the back of an envelope.

Comments were made to the Committee that showed that people were playing fast and loose with public money, and it is very dangerous that that happened. A number of reports are still to be totally signed off. The report on creating effective partnerships between government and the voluntary and community sector identified many good areas that are delivering for communities but which do not necessarily link up with the funding. All of the reports were very welcome. Some other reports will probably come forward, and it is necessary to have a further debate on a number of these issues or table a take-note debate. There is the Excess Vote, benefits take-up by pensioners, and one that was really was very interesting on the use of consultants. We did a report on reducing criminal legal aid, and all I will say is that some of the legal aid claims that went in were criminal. It seemed horrendous that you could decide whether a case was big and whether or not it would be a serious case to determine the level of legal aid required.

All in all, the reports that were conducted in the PAC produced a good body of work. I congratulate the staff on their work, and the evidence sessions definitely brought out some very glaring irregularities and areas that need to be closed up. The Committee made recommendations, not all of which were taken on board by the groups and the bodies that we were working with. The majority of the recommendations were accepted and will have some merit in the future.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

The price of a bottle of bleach is, give or take, £1. I will come back to the significance of that statement later. At some stage, everyone in this Chamber will have had some experience of handling other people’s money, whether as the treasurer of a Masonic, Orange or Hibernian lodge, a church group or a community group. You know the situation as you approach the annual general meeting. You have had your accounts audited, and you stand up and present them. You think that you are getting away with it when someone at the back puts their hand up, leading to an interminable discussion, generally around a very small amount of money.

Imagine my surprise, coming from a business background into this new world, where some money is real and other money is not. In a community group or a small organisation, money, generally small amounts, that is owed or unaccounted for properly is pursued to the utmost of the law. At the other end, tens of millions of pounds seems to be spent irregularly and in questionable circumstances.

I learned phrases that I had never heard before. “Flipping” appears to be where you buy something with money that you have not got on behalf of someone else and sell it on on the same day — a wonderful procedure. There was the lawful procurement, if that is the right word, of a system of computers for £971,000, which, subsequently, totalled £10·5 million. Then there is the daddy, forgive me, of them all, which was an evidence session regarding a scheme that has been alluded to. It began, strangely enough, with the description of a clerical error — a clerical error that was subsequently held not to have been committed by a clerk, which was strange; it involved a four, a five and seven zeros and a plus sign instead of a minus and gave rise, I believe, to a variance in the budget of £90 million. The explanation for that did not take that long and, to be honest, I was not very much wiser after I heard it than I was before it started.

If I remember correctly, and I do not want to be unfair to anyone, we then went on to a description of a scheme that solved a problem that nobody was really sure existed, and expended somewhere between £100 million and £200 million of money that was not available before they realised that they had not got it. That gave rise to a necessity to acquire money. As Mr Girvan said, a valuation was acquired on the basis of a telephone call, I understand, from a Department to Land and Property Services asking the value of building land in the centre of Belfast. The answer was £2·5 million with planning approval. Based on that, a valuation was placed on a piece of land of around 86 acres in the amount of £200 million, which was, subsequently and mysteriously, inculcated into the budget and the transaction took place. Shortly afterwards, it was discovered that it was not, unfortunately, £200 million; it was closer to £2 million — a substantial difference.

There is a requirement incumbent on all of us on this Committee, and I pay tribute to the Committee Chair, who has had a lot to put up with, to be quite frank, and has discharged the duties in a fair, just and appropriate way. He has remained attentive and, on occasions, interested and kept us on the straight and narrow.

The issue that I have is that, in certain quarters, there appears to be a reluctance to be straight with us as we attempt to be straight with those who we bring before us. They appear almost to resent the questions that we put to them, and skilfully give us answers that do not answer the questions that we are asking. That tends to lead to a degree of inquisitiveness on behalf of the members, which I fully understand, endorse and support.

The reason why I quoted the price of a bottle of bleach was that I have knowledge of a small community group that, following the flooding some years ago, purchased an amount of bleach. That amount of bleach was more than the community group would normally have been expected to use, and there was an investigation into the amount of bleach.

It strikes me that there are two different types of pound — well, there are three. There is the pound that may be misspent or incorrectly accounted for by a small community group or a private citizen who, perhaps, has an overpayment of housing benefit; there is the pound that exists in this place; and there is the pound that is used here but does not really seem to exist. The importance of each of those is treated differently. The responsibility that we have here, and which we exercise through the Public Accounts Committee, is quite simple: it is to ensure that the public money we handle is properly, lawfully and justly apportioned. It is the public who pay for this by their taxes and contributions, many of them struggling and being told that they must take their share of the pain in solving a problem that they did not create.

Last night, I saw the chief executive of a nationally owned bank explain that there was really nothing to worry about, that his bank had very broad shoulders and could stand any loss. I am not surprised: he just comes to the Government to get money when he needs it.

There are some in the higher echelons of non-elected government who look somewhat fondly at the days of direct rule when they were, to coin a phrase, kings. I think that they are possessed of the notion that, in discharging its duty towards the Assembly, the Public Accounts Committee sticks its nose where it does not belong. However, I have to tell them that direct rule has gone, and those who subscribe to its continuance or linger for its pleasant memories will, like that system of government, be consigned to history. I learned two things in business about the first principles: follow and control the money, and control the stock. Exactly the same thing applies in here. If Departments are guilty of spending money inappropriately, they must be treated in exactly the same way, no matter the vastness of the amount. That is not done in an attempt to harass, annoy or find people out, but quite simply to ensure that we discharge our duty in handling the money that we hold on behalf of the people who send us here. We should not and will not be distracted from that —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Will the Member bring his remarks to a close?

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

— in any way.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

At the outset, I pay tribute to the Committee Chairperson, Mr Paul Priestly, who is leaving us — [Laughter.] Paul Maskey certainly deserves a total and absolute apology for that mistake. Paul, I am so sorry.

Before Paul, we had Mr Billy Bell — I got his name right. Both Chairpersons have been outstanding. [Interruption.] Both have been —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

— very much above party politics. That is the strength of the Public Accounts Committee.

I want to mention two reports briefly. The first is the inquiry into NI Water, which has already been referred to twice. The second is the inquiry into literacy and numeracy. Although the person whom I have just mentioned, Mr Priestly, drafted the letter, it was sent by Mr Peter Dixon, the chairperson of the independent review team and one of the highest-earning people today, who suffered no penalty as a result of that disgraceful act. There can be no doubt that a number of senior officials have undermined the confidence and integrity of the public sector. That said, it is equally important to emphasise that the majority of officials, at all levels in public bodies, are good and honourable people. The Public Accounts Committee, despite criticism, has sought to give credit where credit is due. I hope that that is noted by all.

As a result of the Public Accounts Committee inquiry, we know that the board of NI Water was badly let down by senior executives. Managed information was poor, and the internal audit of procurement was and continues to be deficient. The PAC report clearly laid down the ground rules for ensuring that the mistakes, inefficiencies and downright irresponsibility of the past should never be repeated. The report could not, however, clear up many of the outstanding issues. That is another avenue that I hope is pursued to its very end, because four non-executive directors were shamefully dismissed on the back of a so-called independent review headed up by Mr Dixon.

Several years ago, one of the first investigations with which I was involved while serving on the Public Accounts Committee was into literacy and numeracy. The issue affected 24% of the population. I will put that in human terms: 250,000 adults. It is not fully appreciated that a further 30% — 313,000 people — were considered able to deal only with the most simple material. Between 2001 and 2011, the Department for Employment and Learning spent some £70 million on essential skills qualifications. I am happy to acknowledge that that reduces the overall level of illiteracy and innumeracy. Some 51,000 people gained an essential skills qualification. However, it should be noted that those with particularly poor skills have not yet been engaged. We have not been able to get in touch with them. Clearly, a great deal of work is still to be done if there is to be a material overall improvement in the foreseeable future.

The Committee considers that there is a fundamental need for a major cultural change in Northern Ireland, whereby education becomes much more highly valued throughout the population. The Committee believes that tackling the adult literacy and numeracy problem is not only about improving education but about tackling much wider social issues that impact on our economic, health and justice systems.

I believe that many of the problems that have beset this part of the world over the past 40 years could have been prevented if we had acknowledged that our education system is not the best in the world and that it fails so many young people. Many of them leave school without the ability to read, write or understand the basic instructions that would allow them to be employed. If many of those young people had been caught in the safety net, they would not have ended up in the grip of criminal groups. Such involvement resulted in many of them spending the best part of their life in jail, where the current literacy and numeracy problems affect up to 80% of the prison population. Surely, that is a damning indictment on all of us.

In conclusion, I acknowledge the work of all my colleagues on the Public Accounts Committee and the staff who have, at all times, put their work on the Committee before party political considerations. It is important that the PAC continues to get the full support of the Assembly. Anyone who intentionally or unintentionally undermines it is doing themselves no favours and is certainly not acting in the best interests of the public, who, as a result of the PAC, have more accountability and a better standard of service. Surely, in these times of austerity, there have to be particularly important rules, because we all accept that our public services are under increasing strain and that any waste is not acceptable.

Finally, I pay tribute to the Audit Office, and I want to defend it. Any attacks on the Audit Office are not doing anybody any favours whatsoever. My experience, as I said, as the longest-serving member of the Committee, is that the Audit Office is entirely independent. The Members who have served on the Public Accounts Committee, many of whom I have served with, have always been above party politics. The Audit Office is independent, and I sincerely hope that there is no attempt to take away the independence of that institution, which has done Northern Ireland proud in the worst of times and will, hopefully, in the future, in the best of times.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

The Public Accounts Committee has done a wide and varied range of reports. Two that have stood out for me are the reports on the farm nutrient management scheme and on the safeguarding of Northern Ireland’s listed buildings.

The agriculture industry in Northern Ireland is a significant industry, and it provides many people with employment. It has long been noted that agriculture can have a negative impact on the environment, if not managed properly. In fact, it has been seen that the agriculture industry has been a principal contributor to a number of serious water quality problems. In 1991, the nitrates directive was introduced by the European Commission. In order to comply, DARD implemented the farm nutrient management scheme. The scheme provided grant support for farmers to build additional storage that would be required under the directive, and when, in 2007, the budget was increased to £144 million, it became one of the largest grant schemes run by DARD.

The scheme has had a number of shortfalls, which are highlighted in the report. In my view, the most serious was the gross overvaluation of the Crossnacreevy site. The initial valuation of £200 million was the basis for securing an additional £89 million of capital funding from DFP. In fact, a subsequent survey set the value at between £2·28 million and £5·87 million, with additional costs associated with the sale. The financial benefits of selling the site were nowhere near the original estimate. It seems that the estimate was written on the back of some toilet paper and every time the individual went to the toilet, the costs were flushed down. The handling of the proposed sale was flawed from beginning to end, with little cross-departmental interaction sought from the relevant personnel in DARD.

The second major concern highlighted by the report was that such a large amount of money had been spent — the total given in the report was £121 million — without any evidence of the extent to which it had contributed to improving water quality in Northern Ireland. Worryingly, there is also a high potential that a substantial proportion of farms could be found to be in breach of the nitrates action programme. Obviously, that casts a great deal of doubt over the entire scheme’s effectiveness. In 2010, the breach levels were detected at 21%, which is one in five of the farms that were inspected. Sixty eight of those breaches were discovered on farms that had received grants under the FNMS. That highlights a real need to be more proactive in tackling non-compliance.

The report highlights a catalogue of failings by DARD, not only in the implementation of the scheme, which was funded by the taxpayer, but in the openness and transparency of some officials called to the Committee to give evidence. The reluctance by some has meant that evaluating and assessing the scheme has taken longer than necessary, again costing the taxpayer more money than necessary.

The lack of SMART targets and outcome measures has meant that it has been unable to give an accurate picture of the capacity of slurry storage in Northern Ireland before the scheme, the increase as a result of the scheme and the potential for under-capacity. The report highlights a number of important lessons that should be learned by all involved in the scheme.

On the second report, it is important to ensure that we have the wisdom to acknowledge that the gifts we have from our past can strengthen our future. In ‘Safeguarding Northern Ireland’s Listed Buildings’, it has been acknowledged that, while there was an effort in 2007 to undertake the complex task of completing a survey to identify buildings that would be suitable for listing by the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, and although there were a number of difficulties in identifying the practical aspect of conducting such a survey, there were still a number of failings identified around the methods initially used, which meant that the project was not identified as being one that gives value for money.

One of the main findings, which identified a waste of scarce resources, was that approximately 60% of buildings surveyed in 2010 were identified as being unsuitable for listing. While it was anticipated that a number of buildings would fall into that category for a plethora of reasons, the high rate of buildings being consigned to that category was wasteful to a cost of approximately £1·1 million. It is also a concern that the NIEA did not act quickly enough to address that issue.

Grant schemes should have performance indicators built into them to ensure that they are delivering on their objectives. There was no objective measuring tool included in the development of the historic buildings grant scheme, which makes it difficult to assess how effective the scheme actually was. While the pattern shows that the expenditure over the past five years has been directed to the most important and rare buildings, that has happened more by accident than real design. It had the potential therefore to go the other way, and it does not appear that there was any control in place to prevent that from happening.

A targeting mechanism was drawn up in 2009, but the report identified that that was not used, as applications to the grant scheme were not oversubscribed. Added to that, there is a target for the removal of 200 properties from the built heritage at-risk register by 2016, and there is still not a prioritised list of what the NIEA wants removed, nor is there any mechanism identified to direct grant aid to the most urgent or important cases.

Those are just a small number of the criticisms that were contained in the report, and, as Members can see, there are a lot of areas of concern around ensuring that money is not wasted and that we maintain these historic buildings in a way that future generations can continue to enjoy them.

Some of the main recommendations that were contained in the report include the following: improved arrangements built into the current contract for targeting survey work; a formal weighting and scoring mechanism for assessing grant applications; and that the NIEA undertakes a review to clearly establish the full range of management and costing information. If the NIEA accepts and implements those and the other recommendations contained in the report, we can be sure that many generations in the future will be able to continue to enjoy our valuable heritage. It will also mean that the government bodies will be held accountable for their responsibilities to the buildings that they own and operate from. Through this more collaborative working, we will ensure that our historic buildings will continue to survive into the future.

To conclude, I thank the Public Accounts Committee staff, who have been invaluable in helping us with not just these two reports, but many others. I do not know how they are able to do it all, but they have done a fantastic job. I also praise the Chair.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. It has to be recognised that retrospectively going over spending programmes and poring over Audit Office reports, particularly where they flag up problems, invites a certain dynamic, which can be quite negative and defensive at times. I have to say that that has been very much the exception during my time on the PAC. Very often, even very critical reports were accepted for what they were: a rigorous and forensic examination of the information to try to establish the circumstances in which anomalies or mistakes were made and, in the interests of ensuring full accountability and achieving best value for public money, to make recommendations that would address and resolve the issues. Time after time, we found that Ministers, Departments and accounting officers in fact recognised the positive value of that interaction.

Over the past number of years and, indeed, across the mandates since the re-establishment of the Assembly, the Committee has had to deal with a significant backlog of work. The reports listed in the motion follow on from a similar debate that we had in the previous session, and they show the volume of work across all Departments and spending areas. I think that the reports very often demonstrate the human quality of government in respect of the prevailing mood. At times, the delivery of projects — although they may have had a certain political or economic imperative — resulted in safeguards that were carefully developed over a period being set aside. Although that is inexcusable, I think that it is necessary to recognise that there are different prevailing pressures on officers to deliver, which can result in people taking shortcuts.

We heard other Committee members give examples, some of which had much more serious implications than others. We as a society are in transition, as is the system and the permanent Government. For some, it has been a difficult process. I believe that the direct rule system very often invited bad practice, because we were dealing with Ministers who were here, perhaps, for 48 hours in any given working week, covering two or three portfolios. Quite clearly, there was a huge reliance on the Senior Civil Service cohort and the middle management structure. In some instances, we have found that that has been less than what people might necessarily and ordinarily expect. It is quite remarkable that they survived that experience, and I think that most of them have developed good working relationships during the transition.

We could be excused in some circumstances for being cynical about the type of answers and responses we get. However, I think that the Public Accounts Committee, in its membership and leadership from the Chair — I, too, pay tribute to Paul, who is the second Chair of the Public Accounts Committee whom I have had the privilege of working with — gels on these issues, and party political interests are set aside to come up with the best resolution or response to the circumstances that are very often based on Audit Office reports in which the factual content is not in dispute; it has been accepted. It is then a question of drilling down to find out the how and why, and to come up with responses that will help to avoid mistakes in the future. It is that kind of productive dynamic that I draw on. It is on that basis that I can say that, of all the Committees on which I have sat from 1998, the Public Accounts Committee is the best. The exercise of auditing efficiencies, money and wastage, and of addressing all those issues actually amounts to quite a remarkable contribution to the better management of public money.

The specific report that I would like to address is that on teacher substitution, and I declare an interest in education. The Westminster Public Accounts Committee drew attention this issue some considerable time ago, in 2002. In 2010, there was a follow-up report, based on an Audit Office report that investigated the issues of managing teachers’ sickness leave, the substitute cover in those circumstances and prematurely retiring teachers who were sometimes brought back into service fairly quickly. That did not give the best outcome in value for money, or give newly-trained teachers opportunities for acquiring the necessary experience and expertise on coming out of teacher training. In many circumstances, a revolving door was created, and the system was feeding on itself. The problem had worsened between the publication dates of the two reports. We are obliged to draw attention to that and do something about it. The fact that the report focused on it resulted in a short-term efficiency that reduced the cost of teacher substitution, but the problem is a long way from being solved and we must return to that subject yet again.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

It is some time since we had a debate on a motion such as this. If I am correct, the last such debate was in November 2010, under the previous mandate. I am, therefore, glad that we have an opportunity to consider this wide range of reports on a wide range of subjects, as outlined in the motion, all of which reflect the hard work of the Committee.

All the Assembly Committees have important scrutiny roles, but the Public Accounts Committee has a particularly important one. Its remit is wide and can touch upon almost any area of government and administration. It is our task to do all we can to ensure that limited resources are deployed in the most efficient and cost-effective manner possible. The motion is a reminder that, under devolution, levels of scrutiny are very much higher than those under direct rule, and that can only be good.

I also wish to record my thanks to the Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff, who have an excellent working relationship with the PAC, and thanks to the Committee Clerk and her staff for all their good work. As a member of the PAC, I have taken an interest in all the various reports and discussions involving it. However, I want to focus my remarks on the ‘Report on Managing Criminal Legal Aid’, which was completed on 26 October 2011. I have also been involved in that particular area as a member of the Justice Committee, and it is an issue that I feel strongly about. It is also worth pointing out that it is the first time that the Public Accounts Committee has looked into the justice issue since the devolution of policing and justice powers to the Assembly in April 2010.

At the outset, let me say that legal aid plays a crucial part in making sure that everyone has fair, equal and open access to justice. It is only right and proper that such an arrangement exists, but, for one reason or another, the cost of legal aid in Northern Ireland has been allowed to go through the roof to such an extent that the whole thing has become scandalous. Over the past decade or so, spending on criminal legal aid has been spiralling out of control, costing the taxpayer over £400 million since 2001, with no comparable increase in the number of cases. It is one of the most expensive systems in the world, and that is certainly not a record that we should be proud of. It is important just to remind ourselves that legal aid is public money. Vast sums of taxpayers’ money were thrown at the private sector, to barristers and others in the legal profession who were, to put it mildly, doing very well indeed.

In May last year, it became clear that a group of 200 barristers’ and solicitors’ firms received — I did not say “earned” — almost £70 million in legal aid in the financial year 2010-11. The identity of some of those very rich people was made public a few months ago. In one case that I raised in Committee, a barrister had claimed £832,255, and when that was assessed by the taxing master, it was reduced by over half to £411,250. I accept that that may have been an extreme case, but it illustrates the point. When we probed officials on the matter in some depth, we got some helpful answers, but we did not always get absolute clarity as to precisely why costs had soared in the way that they had.

As the Committee gathered evidence, we were very taken aback by some of what we learned. We were shocked to hear of some of the practices over the last 10 years. For example, almost £23 million had been spent on complex cases, known as very high cost cases, which never actually went to trial or lasted more than 25 days in court. An extra £10·5 million was paid to lawyers who appealed their fees for Crown Court cases. It is significant that defendants in Northern Ireland are represented by two barristers in over half of cases, whereas in England and Wales, it is just 5%. That obviously has financial implications. We recommended that new procedures be introduced and that all cases be subject to much stricter scrutiny than in the past. As a result, I am glad to say that tangible savings have now been achieved.

The Committee also heard that the Northern Ireland Legal Services Commission has overspent its budget every year since it was set up in 2003, requiring almost £150 million in additional funding. Such poor financial management cannot be allowed to continue. The Committee expects the Department to work with the commission to improve forecasting and bring spending within budget. That is a priority. Perhaps most disconcerting was the fact that the commission was unable to prove that legal aid has not been claimed fraudulently, either by applicants or practitioners. As a direct result, its accounts have been qualified every year since its establishment. To make matters worse, it had no cohesive counter-fraud strategy in place. The Committee has told the commission to identify the risks of fraud in legal aid and to establish proactive counter-fraud arrangements to manage them. That work has begun, and the Committee will continue to monitor its progress.

The Committee received an assurance that the criminal legal aid reforms, which were due to be completed by 2007 — five years ago — will now be implemented fully by June next year. Members will certainly agree with me that further delays are simply not acceptable, and I can assure the House that the Committee will be keeping a close eye on that progress.

There are other key areas of concern, and the Committee has reached a number of important conclusions that I will now share with the House. What is clear above all is that no one emerged with any credit from the review. The Department and its direct rule predecessors created an inherently flawed and complex system that was not fit for purpose. The Court Service introduced a series of defective remuneration schemes. The commission did not administer the system successfully, and the legal aid profession exploited loopholes in the system and, by the accounting officer’s admission, and as has been referred to by my colleague, played “fast and loose” with public money.

Overall, our message is simply this: public confidence in the system must be restored. Significant improvements have to be made to the arrangements for delivering criminal legal aid, and spending must be brought under control. Although access to justice is paramount in a fair society, the Committee made it clear that that cannot come at any cost.

Finally, I should mention that the Committee for Justice has also been progressing the issue since we cross-referred our report for further scrutiny. That is to be welcomed, and it is an example of how two Assembly Committees can work in a joined manner for the greater good of the taxpayer.

Ross Hussey (UUP, West Tyrone)

I am also pleased to contribute to the debate on the work of the Public Accounts Committee. I begin by paying tribute to the staff who work with the Committee and to our Chairman, Mr Paul Maskey, who will be leaving the blue Benches of this House, possibly for the green Benches of somewhere else, in the not-too-distant future.

I will focus on an issue that sits closely with my role as a member of an Assembly Committee and as a member of the Policing Board: the criminal legal aid system, to which Mr Anderson referred. Following the publication of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report on 29 June 2011, the Committee, in its first inquiry since the devolution of policing and justice powers, took evidence from officials from the Department of Justice, the Legal Services Commission and the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service.

Criminal legal aid plays a vital role in ensuring that there is fair and equal access to justice. It pays for legal advice and representation for those who could not otherwise afford a solicitor or barrister. However, providing criminal legal aid in Northern Ireland comes at a significant price. Mr Anderson referred to the fact that it cost the taxpayer over £400 million. Unlike most other public services, criminal legal aid is a demand-led service, and the budget is not cash limited. It is delivered exclusively by the private sector, making it all the more important that it is managed and controlled properly. Until recently, expenditure was rising every year, with costs trebling over the past decade, with no comparable increase in the number of cases.

The Northern Ireland Legal Services Commission was set up in 2003 to control expenditure and implement a programme of reform by the autumn of 2007 that would lead to tangible cost savings. However, it has delivered neither of those objectives. The reform programme remains significantly behind schedule and those reforms that relate specifically to criminal legal aid will not be implemented fully until 2013 at the earliest, as Mr Anderson pointed out.

The current system for providing criminal legal aid in Northern Ireland is one of the most expensive in the world. That is something that we should be ashamed rather than proud of. The Department accepts that the current system is complex and not fit for purpose. Although the judiciary decides who receives criminal legal aid and the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service determines policy, the commission has been left to pick up the bill. As a result, no one is wholly accountable for the large sums of public money spent on criminal legal aid. The Department has acknowledged that the current system is fundamentally flawed and not fit for purpose.

The Committee is highly critical of the very high cost case regime that existed between 2005 and April 2011. Fees for these cases were paid at a significantly higher rate than for standard cases, and were decided only when the case was concluded. However, the rate of payment was not the only cause of concern with very high cost cases. In Northern Ireland, the qualifying threshold was a trial that lasted 25 days, but in England and Wales it was 40 days. The Department conceded that 25 days was too low a threshold as it resulted in three times more very high cost cases coming through the system than expected. Also, even if a very high cost case did not eventually go to a trial that lasted for more than 25 days, legal practitioners were still paid at the higher rates.

Another important inquiry that the Committee completed looked at the use of locum doctors in Northern Ireland’s hospitals. Mr Girvan raised this issue, but I feel it must be commented on again. As a Member who represents the people of West Tyrone, this inquiry was particularly relevant since the area is serviced by the Western Health and Social Care Trust, which has a significant reliance on the use of locum doctors.

As well as the potential negative impact on patient care and satisfaction, there is a significant cost to the public purse. The demand for locum doctors has risen in recent years due to workforce issues such as increased difficulty in filling vacancies and the impact of European legislation governing working hours. In the four-year period to March 2011, almost 8% of trusts’ overall medical staffing expenditure related to locums. Payments to external recruitment agencies for locums totalled £74 million, while payments to substantive staff working over and above their contracted hours totalled over £35 million.

The Committee considers that trusts need to get better at managing the potential risks to patient safety of using locum doctors. They need to be more consistent in how they screen and induct locums and in the way that they manage their performance. In the Committee’s view, one failure to rigorously follow procedures is one too many. In particular, the Committee was very concerned that compliance with the controls for sharing information about poorly performing doctors between trusts has not been sufficient to allow a hospital intending to engage a locum to make an informed decision as to whether it is appropriate to employ a doctor. For a planned, flexible workforce strategy to be successful, trusts need to improve their understanding of the use of locum doctors through greater use of data and better demand forecasting.

I look forward to the introduction of the regionally managed medical locum service, which should provide a more co-ordinated and consistent approach to the management of the locum appointment process.

Adrian McQuillan (DUP, East Londonderry)

I am pleased to contribute to this debate on the work of the Public Accounts Committee. I wish to refer to the Committee’s examination of the reconsideration and appeals process for disability living allowance. Many members will be familiar with the difficulties and complexities of that benefit. The application process itself is a challenge, with an application form some 38 pages long, especially for those who are already vulnerable and suffering from disability. These difficulties are exacerbated further by the appeals process that applicants must go through if their claim process has been unsuccessful. That process can be gruelling for anyone, never mind the most vulnerable in our society.

Having heard from DSD and the appeals service, the Committee decided to hold an additional evidence session during that inquiry to take evidence from the president of the appeals tribunal. This seemed crucial and, indeed, essential for the Committee to properly assess the accountability of the process as it also involves a judicial element. The Committee’s examination of the DLA reconsideration and appeals process highlighted that it was taking an excessively long time for appeals to be heard and concluded. No target was set for the end-to-end process so, of course, one of the Committee’s key recommendations was that such targets should be put in place.

We were encouraged to note that, following the Northern Ireland Audit Office report, the average time taken from an appeal being received in the Social Security Agency to the issue of the tribunal’s decision had fallen from 31 weeks to 22 weeks. Although that is a definite improvement, there is still room for further progress with that time frame.

It was clear from our investigation that the Social Security Agency, the appeals service and appeal tribunals needed to co-operate much more effectively, by adopting a more constructive and efficient approach and working more closely in partnership. Co-operation with the customer is a vital and fundamental issue that also needs to be addressed.

Although the Committee agreed that the independence and integrity of the appeal process should be maintained, it also found that improvements in administration and communication between the bodies was required to ensure that the service is as efficient and effective as possible and that appellants are not subjected to any more stress than is necessary. As Members will know, this is a customer-facing service, and yet our experience demonstrates that, quite often, consideration for the customer seemed to be severely lacking in the whole process. Issues such as holding appeals in appropriate places that are not intimidating or daunting to the customer: courthouses have been used as venues for appeal hearings, which, in my opinion, are not suitable venues. Their use only adds undue stress to the customer. They are appealing and should be made to feel comfortable in their surroundings. Indeed, I have had constituents wanting to withdraw their appeals because they felt overwhelmed by the thought of their appeal being heard in a courthouse. This is a service in which the welfare of the customer is paramount, and yet their consideration and needs have not always been at the forefront.

The Committee’s recommendations covered a number of important issues, including improvements to the DLA application process, the timely production of the president of appeal tribunals’ annual report and agreement on the attendance of agency staff at tribunals. The Committee also recommended that the process should be improved by obtaining feedback from appellants on the appeals process, ensuring consistency of decision-making on appeals and reviewing the reasons for the postponement and adjournment of hearings.

The investigation concluded that contentious issues such as the attendance of SSA staff at tribunals, the notification of appeals and the setting of an end-to-end target for the appeals process had to be resolved. For too long, those issues have deflected the bodies concerned from focusing on the needs of appellants and the delivery of an efficient and effective appeal service. Those are important themes that the Committee will continue to pursue in its future work. I will also continue to gather feedback from my constituents in order to monitor the process.

For me as a constituency representative, the inquiry was incredibly significant. I spend much of my time engaged with the service on behalf of my constituents, whether to speak on their behalf, to facilitate their appointments or to help them arrange the supporting evidence and records they need to provide. As a result of the inquiry, I feel that I and the Committee have achieved real improvements that will have a positive bearing on the lives of local people, as well as achieving greater efficiency in the provision of an important public service.

This is, of course, only one aspect of the important work that the Committee has been occupied with over the past year. However, I wanted to focus on the issue today as I frequently deal with it in my constituency, as I am sure many other Members do also.

I want to express my thanks to the Chairman for the way in which he has chaired the meetings. I want to especially thank the Clerk and her staff for their help and support to me, and their dedication to the Committee as a whole over the working year. I also add my thanks to the Northern Ireland Audit Office for its help in the Committee process during the year.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I call Lord Morrow. Sorry, I call Jim Allister.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I do not know whether I can fill those shoes. I doubt it very much, but I will make my contribution nonetheless.

I greatly welcome the debate. My only regret is that, within the short space of the debate, we have to debate so many reports. I say to the Committee that, in the main, these are excellent reports, and it would, to me not as a member of that Committee, have been far more beneficial if each one of them, or two or three of them, were brought to the House for debate so that they could get the examination they deserve, rather than bringing an omnibus collection of them for a debate such as this. Indeed, when I look back over the past year and think of some of the issues that we debated, many of them were a lot less deserving that many of the matters that lie at the heart of the reports. Therefore, in future, it would be much better if we had fewer Committee reports brought for debate more often.

Given the time that I have to speak, I have to choose which report I will speak to. I was probably most intrigued by the report that dealt with the farm nutrient management scheme. That is not least because, as an MEP, I was close to and familiar with the issue. I well remember and was involved in all the arguments about what was causing the eutrophication in Northern Ireland’s waters. It was always clear to me that the issue was not one of nitrates but of phosphates. Yet we went head over heels into extravagant requirements under the nitrates directive, putting huge burdens on the farming community.

I was not all surprised to read in the report — having experienced from many constituents how the farm nutrient scheme was handled — that the Committee reached the view:

“that, in a number of key aspects, the ... Scheme was poorly planned and badly managed.”

It also had a “piecemeal approach”, and:

“The quality of the Department’s Economic Appraisal ... was far below the standard required”.

That certainly equates with any experience that I ever had of the report.

I suppose, though, that the most intriguing part of the report is when it deals with the magical mathematics by which funding for the scheme was obtained, under the guise of the Crossnacreevy lands in Castlereagh. We had this wheeze whereby, to draw down another £85 million, we had on paper a fictional notion that there was a £200 million valuation on the Crossnacreevy lands.

I find many things about that interesting, one of which is that the Minister of Finance at the time, who — with the then Agriculture Minister — took that proposition to the Executive, was not someone ignorant of the value of land in Castlereagh. He was not somebody who represented Strabane or Fermanagh who might not have been tuned into the nuance of value in Castlereagh. He was Mr Castlereagh himself: Mr Peter Robinson, who knew the value, if I may say so, of every blade of grass in Castlereagh; so much so that he knew that a blade of grass at one end of the constituency could be worth £5. Indeed, he purchased land for £5. The fact that that assisted him to sell his back garden for £460,000 is, we are told, neither here nor there.

This Minister knew, with great precision, the value of land in Castlereagh. Yet, remarkably, while land in one part of the constituency was worth a fiver, land in another part was worth £200 million. With a straight face, the Minister carried that proposition to the Executive table — a Minister who knew all about the value of land in Castlereagh; knew that Crossnacreevy was greenbelt land; had followed the debates, interrogations and investigations of the Belfast metropolitan area plan and the efforts to get land at Crossnacreevy into development. He also knew the interest of certain developers in that regard. Yet that Minister allowed this wheeze of land allegedly worth £200 million, which it patently was not, to go to the Executive. It was worth £2 million because, in this context, it was never coming into development and required £6 million to relocate, so the land was of negative not positive value.

Therefore, this is not just a matter of civil servants valuing land inefficiently and inadequately. We heard from the Member for East Belfast how it was done, but this was civil servants picking a figure for the generic value of development land in the development limit and multiplying that by 80 for land that was not in a development limit. That is quite an astonishing way to proceed. However, this was a situation where a Minister who knew so much about the value of land in Castlereagh was in charge yet apparently lent himself to this wheeze. I think that the PAC maybe did not fully explore that, and maybe it is something that the Minister would like —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Would the Member draw his remarks to a close, please?