Northern Ireland Assembly, 3 July 2012

420 contributions from 75 members. The official report.

Committee Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As with similar motions, this will be treated as a business motion. Therefore, there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mr Alex Maskey replace Mr Pat Doherty as a member of the Committee on Standards and Privileges. — [Ms Ruane.]

Ministerial Statements

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

As one of the junior Ministers in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM) responsible to the Executive for the oversight of their business in the Assembly, I advise the Assembly of the legislation that Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive intend to introduce during the 2012-13 session.

Before I present the individual pieces of legislation, it might be useful to say something about the legislative process in general. I propose to do that for two reasons. First, legislation is the key collaborative activity between the Assembly and the Executive. The Executive propose those matters that they consider should be enshrined in legislation. The Assembly scrutinises that legislation, consults on it, proposes amendments where it believes they are necessary and, ultimately, passes legislation that it considers relevant to our society’s needs.

It is important, therefore, that there is a mutual appreciation of the respective roles and the factors and processes that underpin them.

Secondly, the subject of legislation has attracted considerable comment in this, the first full Assembly session of the current mandate, which is now drawing to a close. Some comments have come from Members and some from external commentators. Much of it has focused on the quantum of legislation that the Executive might have been expected to bring forward to the Assembly. The Executive are aware of the criticisms that have been made of their activity in this area, but I deliberately do not use the word performance, as this is not, in the Executive’s view, a performance issue.

In a recent Question Time, a Member suggested:

“that the Assembly’s success is judged in very large part by the quality and quantity of legislation that should pass through it.” — [Official Report, Vol 75, No 4, p222, col 2].

He went on to accuse the Executive of having an “abysmal” record. There is no issue with the first of these assertions: the quality of legislation and of the policies it reflects are essential to good government. Quantity is, however, too crude a measure on which to judge either the success of the Assembly or the Executive. Legislation should be proposed only when there is a need to legislate and only when the necessary preparation has been completed.

Members will know that a Bill is the culmination of a lengthy process of policy development, public consultation and expert technical drafting. In so far as it places duties and obligations on government, specific bodies or private individuals, it must be both necessary and fit for purpose. I confidently speak for the Executive when I say that they do not intend to promote large amounts of hasty and ill-thought-out legislation or to over-regulate society for the sake of generating activity. That, not a failure to meet notional numerical targets, would be abysmal. I also suggest that the by now customary extensions sought by Committees for their scrutiny of Bills indicate that they share the Executive’s view that legislation is too important an issue to rush, other than in compelling circumstances.

None of this is in any way to deny the central role that legislation must play in what is, after all, a legislative Assembly. However, the experiences of the previous mandate and the start of this one make it clear that each mandate is likely to have its own legislative profile. In 2007, the Executive inherited a considerable number of legislative proposals capable of early introduction from the direct rule Administration. The Executive were, therefore, able to introduce 22 Bills up to the end of the first full session. Also, at the end of that mandate, the remarkable collaboration between the Assembly and the Executive in the three months up to the 2011 election— when 20 Bills passed Final Stage — effectively left the incoming Executive with virtually a clean sheet as far as legislative proposals were concerned. Nevertheless, since May 2011, they have introduced 11 Bills, four of which are now law. In the remainder of this statement, I hope to demonstrate clearly the significant range of legislative activity that the Executive intend to initiate in the next session.

My comments are made neither to defend the Executive nor to discount in any way the legitimate interest of the Assembly in the work of the Executive. However, as I said earlier, in the context of the many strands of engagement between the Executive and the Assembly, it is best if work is taken forward in a spirit of co-operation and mutual understanding of the processes and constraints that influence how and when the Executive legislate.

I will now set out the legislative intentions of each Minister in 2012-13. I will also provide a brief description of the purpose of each Bill which, after consultation with the relevant Committees and with the agreement of the Executive and the Speaker, they propose to introduce in the Assembly. Executive Ministers have identified 26 Bills for potential introduction in the 2012-13 Assembly session.

The Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development is considering responses to a consultation on a regulatory framework for the management and inspection of reservoirs, which will require primary legislation. The purpose of a reservoirs Bill will be to minimise the risk of flooding after an uncontrolled release of water as a result of total dam failure, thereby protecting human life, the environment, cultural heritage and economic activity.

The Minister of Education intends to bring forward an education Bill to reform education administrative structures. He also proposes a General Teaching Council Bill to provide for the extension of the council’s existing remit to cover further education lecturers, additional disciplinary functions and the establishment of the council as a body that is wholly independent of government. The Minister is also currently reviewing the special educational needs and inclusion policy and the requirements for primary legislation to implement any changes.

The Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment wishes to introduce two Bills to reform energy distribution and tariffs. A gas (common arrangements) Bill will harmonise arrangements for gas North and South, as set in the context of development of the EU internal market in gas.

There will also be an energy Bill, which will provide for a number of key energy initiatives, including powers for a feed-in tariff, offshore decommissioning of renewable energy installations and gas storage. The Bill will also amend the duties of the Department and regulator to do with sustainability, meter certification and supplier obligation. The Minister also proposes bringing forward an insolvency Bill to enable insolvency practitioners to communicate information about cases by electronic means.

As you are aware, the Programme for Government includes a key commitment to establish an 11-council model for local government by 2015. The Minister of the Environment therefore intends to introduce a local government (reorganisation) Bill, which will provide for new governance arrangements for councils, a new ethical standards regime, the introduction of community planning powers for local government and an updated service-delivery and performance-improvement regime.

Again in line with commitments in the Programme for Government, the Minister of the Environment has announced plans to introduce a levy on single-use carrier bags in April 2013. A carrier bag levy Bill will enable an extension of the levy to certain reusable bags in April 2014. The Minister also intends to introduce a road traffic (amendment) Bill, which will contain a package of measures to tackle drink-driving and reform the learner and restricted driver schemes. The Bill will also introduce graduated driver licensing.

He intends to provide for the identification, designation and management of national parks through the introduction of a national parks Bill. Finally, he proposes to introduce a planning Bill to bring forward a number of the planning reforms contained in the Planning Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 and apply them to the Department of the Environment in advance of the transfer of powers to local councils.

In addition to the normal two Budget Bills that the Minister of Finance and Personnel introduces in each session, he will bring forward a financial provisions Bill to handle other routine financial matters.

Members recently agreed in the House to the devolution of powers to adjust the rate of air passenger duty (APD), which, in turn, will allow for the elimination of APD on direct long-haul flights. That was also a commitment in the Programme for Government.

Through a legal complaints and regulation Bill, the Finance Minister intends to provide powers for a legal services oversight commissioner to create new complaints-handling committees for barristers and solicitors.

In keeping with a key commitment in the Programme for Government to reform and modernise the delivery of health and social care, the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety will bring forward three Bills to reconfigure, reform and modernise health and social services.

A health and personal social services Bill will introduce a more flexible range of sanctions to support the move to a “fitness to practice” model for the management of conduct processes in the Northern Ireland Social Care Council (NISCC). The proposed health and social care (reform) Bill will ensure that the range of services that the Business Services Organisation (BSO) is charged with providing has a proper regulatory base, as well as allowing for some expansion of its client bodies.

The proposed health (miscellaneous provisions) Bill will provide the Department with the necessary powers to create dental, ophthalmic and pharmaceutical performers’ lists.

A tobacco retailer sanctions Bill will strengthen sanctions against retailers who regularly break the law on the underage sale of tobacco products. The Bill will contribute to our commitment to promoting the health and well-being of our young people.

The Programme for Government makes several commitments to making a number of legislative changes to provide a faster, fairer and more efficient justice system. The Minister of Justice intends to introduce a justice Bill that will provide for improved access to justice.

The Minister for Regional Development will implement the Executive’s commitment to households that they will ensure no additional water charges during this Programme for Government period by introducing a water and sewerage services Bill.

The Minister for Social Development will introduce a measure aimed at helping local businesses, benefiting their customers and attracting visitors and tourists. A licensing of pavement cafes Bill will help promote town and city centres by supporting the development of a cafe culture. The Minister will also introduce a welfare reform Bill.

Finally, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister will confirm their legislative intentions on the dissolution of the Department for Employment and Learning. Other requirements for primary legislation may of course arise during the 2012-13 Assembly session, and those will be identified as part of a process of regular review.

The Bills that Ministers have identified to date make up a substantial programme, and it is important to comment on the impact that that may have on the resources that are available for drafting legislation. Although the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) in OFMDFM has been able to meet Departments’ drafting requirements in the past , and we have no reason to think that it will not do so in the future, its resources are not infinite. Should it prove necessary, the Executive may be required to take a view on the relative priority of the proposals, and that may have implications for the timetable for the introduction of individual Bills.

I hope that, at the conclusion of this first full session of the new mandate, my statement has provided the Assembly with a helpful overview of the Executive’s future legislative intentions and that, looking forward, the 2012-13 session can commence in that spirit of co-operation and shared goals between the Executive and the Assembly that has delivered so much of benefit to the community that we collectively serve.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Before I call George Robinson, I remind Members that the nature of the statement may tempt them to go into a long preamble before they come to their question. I assure Members that that will not be allowed this morning. Let us come to the question.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank junior Minister Bell for his statement. Does he agree that good-quality legislation is essential if it is to be of practical use in the Assembly?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I fully agree. Those of us who are in contact with our business communities will know that, if we look at the European models, we see that there is a policy in many areas of one in and one out when it comes to introducing new legislation. We want good legislation that delivers real benefits for our people on the ground; we do not want legislation for legislation’s sake. We certainly do not want legislation that is made in haste and about which people will repent at their leisure.

Megan Fearon (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Minister made reference to the Education Minister bringing forward legislation. I welcome that. Will the junior Minister give a timeline for that?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I welcome the new Member to the House. The Education Minister is finalising the details of a Bill to establish the Education and Skills Authority. Subject to Executive agreement, he hopes to introduce the Bill in the Assembly soon after the beginning of the new session in September.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I welcome the Minister’s assurance that legislation will be introduced only when it has purpose and relevance to the electorate. Given that there was no change in government after the previous election — given that the DUP and Sinn Féin went into the election at the heart of government and came out at the heart of government — and a year has passed with little or no legislation, what does he say to the electorate who are now beginning to think that the DUP’s plan was simply to get power for power’s sake?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I understand the naivety of the Member as a new Member. I also understand that he first sought election as a Conservative member to slash the Northern Ireland Budget, and he bears responsibility for that. To be straight with the Member: the Bills on the Budget, the rates and the pensions have all received Royal Assent. In terms of marine, superannuation, historical institutional abuse, the Budget (No. 2) Bill, business improvement districts, criminal justice and charities, I do not know where the Member has been for the past year.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I welcome the statement, although it appears from the junior Minister’s words that OFMDFM is condemned. The statement referred to OFMDFM bringing forward legislative proposals around the dissolution of DEL. Does that mean that it will persist with the back-of-the-envelope approach to government restructuring for that one Department, or will DEL now be part of the broader discussions on the number of Departments and MLAs, etc? Given that the Minister said that —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I must insist that the Member now finishes.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

It is just really —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Quite a number of Members want to make a contribution this morning.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

It is just really on the basis that a Bill is the culmination of a lengthy process of policy development, public consultation and expert technical drafting.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I think that, somewhere along the line, there was a question about the dissolution of the Department for Employment and Learning. The Executive continue to consider the responses to the consultation that we carried out on the redistribution of the functions of the Department for Employment and Learning. The report of the Committee for Employment and Learning and the subsequent Assembly debate have also proved invaluable in that respect. The Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister will confirm its legislative intention in respect of the dissolution of the Department for Employment and Learning following the summer recess.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome the considerable number of legislative proposals from the Minister of the Environment. Will the junior Minister assure the House that the timetable for the planning Bill will not slip any further, so that it maximises the benefits that will be given to the Department before the transfer of power to local government?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Obviously, this is a collaborative process. There will be no intention on our part, particularly regarding the important Bill that she mentioned, not to ensure that the introduction of the legislation is done speedily and efficiently and so that there is a good response. As I said, a number of Bills were passed during the previous mandate. They were properly scrutinised, but we relied on the Committees, which worked hard and effectively. I remember sitting on Committees that worked extra days.So, subject to the goodwill of the House, we can really deliver. I think that that is what everybody in the Executive and the Assembly wants. We can deliver good results and good legislation for the people whom we serve.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I thank the junior Minister for the statement to the House this morning. I note that the First Minister and deputy First Minister are to confirm their legislative intentions in respect of the dissolution of the Department for Employment and Learning. However, will the junior Minister advise us on whether a programme has been laid down for the dissolution of that Department?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

At this point, we are considering the responses to the consultation that we carried out. We are very clear that, when you issue a paper for consultation and people spend a considerable amount of time and effort responding to it, you must give due diligence to the responses. The report from the Committee for Employment and Learning and the subsequent Assembly debate have also had an input. They have actually been invaluable to our considerations. As you noted, we will confirm our legislative intention in respect of the dissolution of DEL following the summer recess.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an tuairisc seo. I thank the junior Minister for the report. Some people give a narrative that very little legislation is going through the Assembly, but this report nails that. I welcome the substantial body of work and ask those who are critical of it to look at their own record when they were in that position. Will the junior Minister give me an assurance regarding other pieces of legislation that are not included currently but that we may need? In the OFMDFM Committee, we are looking at the lack of race and disability legislation. Will he assure me that there is still space for us to include that?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

We will take a constructive look at that. The matters that Caitríona Ruane refers to are under active consideration. Where it is possible to introduce legislation, we will look to do that. I appreciate the Member’s constructive view. Some Members seem to have missed the fact that the Executive have so far introduced 11 Bills. We, in OFMDFM, are not focusing on artificial targets for the number of Bills that can be introduced. It is about quality not quantity. I say again that we will not introduce legislation for the sake of it. We acknowledge the central role of the House and the Assembly, and what we are looking for is good governance.

I also say again to the whole House that Members who argue for a strong record of legislative achievement for the Assembly should bear in mind that progressing legislation is a shared responsibility between the Executive, the Assembly and its Committees. We hope to introduce legislation and progress it to its Final Stage with all due diligence and urgency. During the last mandate, 65 Executive Bills were introduced. All but one or two of those were passed by the Assembly, which left little or no remaining legislation in a state of preparation and needing quick introduction. To those who argue for quick introduction, I argue that the people of Northern Ireland want to see their legislation got right, not rushed.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I, too, welcome the statement, particularly a sentence that is not in bold or large capital letters but is important.

“Legislation should be proposed only when there is a need to legislate and only when the necessary preparation has been completed.”

Will the junior Minister give an assurance that that will continue to the case and that those who want to create jobs and business in Northern Ireland can do so unencumbered rather than facing more and more unnecessary legislation?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The Member for East Londonderry makes his point very well. Speak to the people on the ground, particularly the business community, and you will find that we need to be very careful that we do not add additional levels of red tape and bureaucracy, even though it might tick some box somewhere to show that we have introduced more Bills. We have already outperformed Scotland and Wales in the legislative process. I am happy to stand over that record.

The criticism of making legislation just for the sake of it or not producing enough legislation is far too narrowly drawn.

Ministers in the Executive continue to have a full and extensive range of engagement with other Ministers, officials, the Assembly and its Committees. As the Member said, policies need to be sound and workable before they are committed to legislation, and that legislation needs to be accurately drafted. The fact that Committees have invariably sought extensions for scrutiny stages seems to amply demonstrate that these are complex issues. Even the Committees acknowledge that and tell us that they cannot be rushed just for the sake of fulfilling a schedule.

For those who criticise for the sake of it, let me point out again that, since this mandate began and up to the close of business yesterday, we have introduced 11 Bills, made 86 oral statements, responded to 17 Statutory Committee motions and over 90 private Member’s motions, and held 34 Adjournment debates. We responded to questions at 154 Question Time sessions to Executive Ministers. We moved 10 legislative consent motions, and we responded to five questions for urgent oral answer. Where have you been?

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I will focus on the word “performance”, which he used. It is not only legislation by which we are judged but whether we have taken any actions. Will the Minister look at legislation that gets this body better at turning strategies into actions? That is what is missing, and, otherwise, we will just have another statement such as this, which shows you to be the waffle king.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Well, let me engage, Mr Speaker, on that one. You will understand that I have been provoked. When we introduce legislation for the likes of small businesses and businesses that are struggling, you have to realise, Mr Kinahan, that those small businesses do not live in rich castles like you do. As I said before, there is a line from an old hymn: “The rich man in his castle,

The poor man at his gate,”

I did not believe that people lived in castles until Mr Kinahan came along with that status. You need to realise that, when we pass Budgets and look at rates and pensions, we are trying to deliver a real and tangible effect for people on the ground. That is what makes a difference, not silly comments made from turrets in ivory towers.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Where are the legislative plans in anticipation of the long-awaited devolved powers for varying corporation tax? Is there no longer an expectation that this concession will be delivered during the lifetime of this Assembly?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The work on corporation tax is, obviously, ongoing. We need to make a decision for all of our people. It involves complex work and negotiations with the Treasury. You know that we adopt the position of supporting the devolution of those powers, but the package has to be right. It has to support the people of Northern Ireland in delivering a better quality of life. Negotiations on that package with the ministerial working group are still ongoing. It is still a live issue, and the focus will be on ensuring that whatever deal can be arrived at will deliver something productive for the community and raise the standard and quality of life for our people. Those negotiations are still ongoing, and it is vastly premature to draw any conclusions on them.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

A key priority for our society must be to improve our education system and to build a shared society. A single education and skills authority would go a long way towards a more integrated approach to the delivery of education and skills, and would deliver significant savings as a result. The original target for an ESA Bill was 2009, and, indeed, on Tuesday 26 June, the Education Minister said that it is the worst-kept secret in politics that the education and skills authority is in trouble. Indeed, he brought an ESA Bill to the Executive on 7 March. He has said that it is up to the Executive make their mind up on ESA, so what is the junior Minister’s mind on ESA?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I cannot speak for the Ministers of individual Departments. We hope that the Minister of Education will introduce it soon after the beginning of the new session in September. As you know, in our Programme for Government, which both Alliance Ministers supported, the commitment was not for 2009; the commitment under our Programme for Government in this mandate was to have it operational by 2013. I understand that the Minister of Education is finalising the details of the Bill to establish the new Education and Skills Authority.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the junior Minister for his very lengthy, informative, detailed and comprehensive speech this morning, in which he outlined, in considerable detail, all the achievements of the Assembly over the past 12 months and further. I know that one or two are sceptical about that, but I am not among them.

With regard to the Tobacco Retailer Sanctions Bill, the Minister said that:

“sanctions against retailers who regularly break the law on the underage sales of tobacco products which will contribute to our commitment to promoting the health and well being of our young people.”

Does he accept that more than retailers break the law on the sale of tobacco? Will the Bill, in conjunction, perhaps, with another Department, tackle the awful problem of the importation of illegal tobacco substances?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The Member raises an important point. I will ask the Minister responsible — Edwin Poots — to liaise with the Minister of Justice. There will also be a role for the Policing Board in all those matters. The aim of the Tobacco Retailer Sanctions Bill is to strengthen the sanctions against retailers who regularly break the law through underage sales of tobacco products. Retailers who wish to sell tobacco products will be required to register with the local district council. Persistent flouting of underage sales legislation will result in the withdrawal of the retailer’s right to sell tobacco for up to one year. It is also proposed to use the Bill to introduce a fixed penalty notice scheme for retailers who are caught selling tobacco to underage children. We want to see the police enforce the legislation rigorously not only with regard to the official retailers, but malign and dangerous influences who sell tobacco or any other substance. It is in all our interests, particularly our young people, to get the best health and life opportunities.

I welcome Lord Morrow’s comments about the legislation in this and the previous mandate. I reiterate to Members that, if we compare the 65 Bills that the Executive introduced in the previous mandate with the 45 Executive Bills introduced to the Scottish Parliament and the 17 Government proposed measures for the National Assembly for Wales, we are significantly ahead in legislation. In the recent announcement of the UK Government’s legislative programme, in addition to the normal financial measures, there are plans to introduce 15 new Bills in the new Westminster session. We already have a track record of being ahead of the game and of producing legislation where necessary. We have outperformed Scotland and Wales in the amount of legislation, and I have given the facts to confirm that. However, legislation should be introduced in the House only if it is proper, accurately drafted and has had the detailed scrutiny to produce the best legislation for the House. We should not introduce legislation that would hinder or hamper economic progress in raising the quality and the standard of the lives of the people we serve.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The junior Minister said that there should be a clear need before introducing legislation and that new legislation should not be rushed. I have a question about missing legislation. Lead, copper and even manhole covers are being stolen from our churches, schools, homes and roadways. The Minister of the Environment has indicated that that is beyond his remit. Why has no legislation been proposed to improve the audit trail for those dealing in stolen metal?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I will happily take those proposals directly to the Minister responsible. Churches that I am associated with have had copper stolen from their roof. My understanding is that theft is dealt with in criminal legislation. We want to see enforcement of the criminal law against those who would steal. You suggested an audit trail. I will bring that to the Minister of Justice for consideration.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Junior Minister for his extensive statement and his responses to questions so far. I see from the statement that the Minister of the Environment intends to bring forward quite a number of pieces of legislation. What is the junior Minister’s assessment of the need for a climate change Bill, which many campaigners across Ireland have been calling for in recent times?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

That is not currently in the legislative programme. To go back to my old Christian background: it is my view that we should be good stewards of the earth. We will take a serious look at any proposed legislation. Our task as junior Ministers is to refer specific items of business to the Minister responsible. We do that across the House, where new information is brought to us. It is interesting legislation, but it is better addressed by the Minister of the Environment, who is responsible. You have raised the potential need for a climate change Bill. I will draw that to Minister Attwood’s attention and ask him to consider replying directly to you on the matter.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the junior Minister for his statement. Why is the entire Assembly term going to be a legislation-free zone for the CAL Minister? Where are the legislative proposals for minority languages?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Again, as your question on minority languages legislation deals with specific legislation that is outside the programme, I will refer it to the Minister for a response.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Fourteen months in office before they produce a tentative legislative programme. I begin to see now why this Executive will need every one of the 161 staff in their press offices to spin this as achievement.

I want to comment on the total absence of any substantive measure to deal with the bloated nature and size of government. Is it the case that even the one step taken, around DEL, has now stalled? Just six weeks ago, in an answer to a question, the Minister’s Department said that legislation would be introduced by July. Now, we do not even have a commitment to legislation; we have some form of words to say that Ministers will confirm their legislative intentions. Is there still an intention to abolish DEL, and, if so, when? Has that intention been to the Executive?

Finally, I reassure the Minister that his Department is in no danger of falling in to rushed legislation. So far, it has been nil on quantity and nil on quality.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I was always taught that a good forensic lawyer examined the detail, of which we had nil in that question. Let us look at the detail. The Member refers to Bills as “nil”. The Budget (No. 2) Bill is not nil. It has received —

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Your Department.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

— Royal Assent.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Your Department.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The Rates (Amendment) Bill was passed and got Royal Assent. That is not nil. There were Bills on pensions; the Budget; marine; superannuation —

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Your Department.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

— historical institutional abuse; business improvement districts; criminal justice; and charities. We also have an Executive that are outperforming Scotland and Wales. Yet the honourable Member for North Antrim says, “nil”.

Did he mishear what we said in response to the consultation we carried out on the redistribution of the functions of the Department for Employment and Learning? We will listen to, review and consider those consultations. The Member may listen to nobody else but himself, but I assure him that the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister will listen to the responses of teachers, lecturers and all the allied professions, because they have professional expertise and something to contribute. Therefore, we will consider the responses, because they have been invaluable to what we are going to do. We have set down the legislative intention for the dissolution of the Department for Employment and Learning following the summer recess. I think that the honourable Member could learn from the fact that the good Lord gave us two ears and only one mouth for a particular reason.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I fully appreciate that it is difficult for the Minister for Social Development, in the light of the four lines referring to him in the statement, to give an accurate reflection of his Department’s proposals, legislative or otherwise. I was slightly scundered — if I can use that word — that there were 42 words on pavement cafes and eight on welfare reform. I understand that welfare reform is something over which we do not have a great deal of control, but, whether we like it or not, it will impact very seriously on people here. Can the junior Minister give us some indication as to whether any communications are taking place, particularly between the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and the Executive, or the Minister for Social Development, regarding progress on the matter? How sure are we that we can reform welfare within a time frame that will avoid infraction or sanction charges, which are apparently somewhere between £30 million and £50 million a year, which is not inconsequential.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The Member raises a very important point on welfare reform. I assure him categorically that it is the subject of complex, ongoing negotiations with DWP and Lord Freud, who has responsibility for the devolved regions. Subject to the goodwill of the House, we are confident that we can meet the commitments, but that is dependent on everybody in the Chamber. As I have said before, the principle of parity is clear. I personally think that it is important that the benefits that we get in Belfast are the same as those that people in Bristol get and that we have integrity in the administration of benefits.

The purpose of the Bill is to simplify the benefits system to improve work incentives and reform the welfare and benefits systems to provide support and incentive for people to move from benefit into work. The Minister, Nelson McCausland, has been working to develop those proposals, while recognising the commitment that I have outlined to have parity with the GB system, taking into account the particular needs that we have in Northern Ireland. Welfare reform is an important issue, and the proposals have been overseen by a dedicated Executive subcommittee. The proposals for the Bill are now under active and detailed consideration.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas ar maidin. I thank the Minister for his statement and for his answers to the questions to date.

I seek clarification on the ESA Bill. Is it not the case that the Minister of Education has signed off on it, and he is now awaiting Executive approval to bring it before the Assembly?

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

The information that I have received from the Minister of Education is that he is finalising the details of the Bill to establish the new Education and Skills Authority, and, subject to the Executive’s agreement, he hopes to be able to introduce the Bill in the Assembly soon after the beginning of the new session in September. That meets our Programme for Government commitment, which we all agreed on, to have the legislation available by 2013.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

That concludes questions to the junior Minister on his statement. I ask the House to take its ease as we move to the next business.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I wish to make a statement to the Assembly on progress on the implementation of ‘Transforming Your Care’ (TYC), the report of the review of health and social care services in Northern Ireland. ‘Transforming Your Care’ was presented to the Assembly on 13 December 2011. It provides a compelling case for major and long overdue reform of our health and social care services to ensure that we have a system that is safe, resilient and sustainable into the future. In January, I initiated a take-note debate on the report in the Assembly. At that time, Members from across the Assembly broadly welcomed the report, and there was recognition of the need to reform our health and social care system.

It is crucial that we take steps now to build a health and social care system that is fit for the future, by improving the quality of care, ensuring better outcomes for patients and clients, and enhancing the experience of health and social care for all our service users. We need to improve services for our population and have an effective system for doing so, and we need to do that in a way that secures improved productivity and value for money. Those factors must drive all of us to create a better, person-centred health and social care system, built around the individual, not the institution.

We know that Northern Ireland has the fastest-growing population in the UK and that it is continuing to grow. The TYC report states that the number of people over 75 is expected to increase by 40% by 2020. The over-85 population is to increase by around 20% by 2014 and by 58% by 2020, compared with the figure for 2009.

The Institute of Public Health in Ireland published the report ‘Making Chronic Conditions Count’, which forecasts the population prevalence of a number of chronic conditions, namely hypertension, coronary heart disease, stroke and diabetes. Between 2007 and 2020, the prevalence of those long-term conditions amongst adults in Northern Ireland is expected to increase by 30%. Those are not new figures, but they are still startling. The increasing numbers of people with those conditions will undoubtedly put pressure on the health and social care system and have implications for the sustainability of services.

We need to recognise fully the demands and pressures that those demographic changes will bring now and into the future. ‘Transforming Your Care’ indicated that demand for services could grow by around 4% a year by 2015, noting that that would mean 23,000 extra hospital admissions; 48,000 extra outpatient appointments; 8,000 extra nursing home weeks; and 40,000 extra 999 ambulance responses. We need to plan strategically to meet patient and client needs in light of such projections.

In recognising those pressures and the need for change, ‘Transforming Your Care’ recommended a new model for the delivery of integrated health and social care services in Northern Ireland, containing 99 proposals covering 10 areas of care. It set out a strategic road map into the future and has the potential to make a huge difference to how we plan and deliver health and social care services in the medium and long term. It will bring care closer to people’s homes, improve patient outcomes, ensure better use of our resources, and ensure that we maximise the use of our skill bases, particularly in prevention and early intervention.

In making this statement today, I want to inform Members of the progress that has been made and outline the next steps. A key early objective in the delivery of the reform was the development of population plans for each of the five local commissioning groups (LCGs) and trust areas by the end of June. The local commissioning groups are committees of the Health and Social Care Board, with statutory responsibilities for the planning and resourcing of health and social care services to meet the needs of their local populations. The population plans are to identify the strategic needs of the local population, based on demographics and population health trends and to identify how those needs should be met in future. They should provide the basis for making the significant changes required in our health and social care system, particularly in respect of shifting services from secondary care into primary and community care, where it is safe and appropriate to do so, and the reconfiguration of acute services.

The population planning process has been the focus of intensive work over the past few months. Local commissioning groups have worked closely with the trusts and other stakeholders to carry out a detailed assessment of the services required to meet the future needs of patients and clients in their respective areas in a safe, resilient and sustainable way over the next three years and beyond. A focus of the population plans has been to identify key initiatives that would support the delivery of Transforming Your Care and the changes required to effect that.

In developing population plans, local commissioning groups and trusts have engaged actively with clinicians and health professionals, community and political representatives. The production deadline for the draft plans was challenging, but we need to ensure that there is a momentum to the work so that people using our health and social care services, as well as those who provide them, can see and feel improvements as quickly as possible. I acknowledge and pay tribute to those involved in the efforts that have been made to produce the plans in this challenging timescale. We need to sustain that momentum. The development of the population plans has been an intensive exercise, but I believe that it is an example of how local commissioning groups and Health and Social Care trusts can work collaboratively in a focused way towards a common goal of improving patient and client care.

The five population plans are complemented by an overarching strategic implementation plan produced by the Health and Social Care Board to draw together the key elements of the population plans including cross-cutting regional aspects. The strategic plan is intended to set out a coherent framework for the delivery, over the next three years, of the major changes that would drive transformation, supported by the details for local areas contained in the population plans.

The population plans include a number of recurring key themes that are drawn together in the overall strategic implementation plan. I want to outline some of them. A fundamental principle in Transforming Your Care is the shift of service provision, moving treatment and care out of the hospital sector and into the community, closer to people’s homes. A key vehicle for facilitating that is the development of integrated care partnerships, which bring together health and social care professionals to work together to deliver better services for local populations and enabling targeted care in the community and, if appropriate, in people’s homes. Integrated care partnerships will focus initially on delivering the transformation of care set out in Transforming Your Care, in particular by supporting older people and people with long-term conditions to maintain their independence in their homes or in assisted housing through a stronger emphasis on primary and secondary disease prevention, reablement and focused programmes of therapeutic care and support interventions. The longer-term model for integrated care partnerships will need to be developed so that they become a core part of our system to deliver quality and sustainable health and social care.

The implementation of Transforming Your Care would support older people and those with long-term conditions to maintain their independence. The strategic implementation plan envisages a range of changes and benefits over the next three years that include the provision of social inclusion programmes for older people; a reduction in hospital admissions resulting from falls; and a reduction in acute hospital bed days and emergency department attendances for older people. There should also be a reduction in unplanned admissions by implementing telehealth solutions and increasing the way in which services can be provided, particularly for people with long-term conditions, as well as the further development of reablement and intermediate care.

I want a reduction in the number of people in institutional care, the development of self-directed support and individual budgets and the supported-living model for learning and physical disability services. There is a need to realign learning disability services to focus more on resettlement, with a commitment to the closure of long-stay institutions.

Transforming Your Care will also mean addressing how services are provided for people with physical disabilities, again with the emphasis on care closer to home. The strategic implementation plan includes, for example, a review of day-care provision and the further development of multiagency and multidisciplinary collaboration to increase choice and service provision.

The implementation of Transforming Your Care will also address the need to bring the care of mental health service users back into the community when that is appropriate and support more people to remain in their homes where possible.

There will be a focus on resettling into the community those living in long-stay hospitals through working closely with the voluntary sector as appropriate. The dementia strategy will be implemented, with integrated care partnerships helping the proactive management of people with dementia in primary and community care settings.

Population health and well-being are crucial elements of Transforming Your Care. The implementation of the A Fitter Future for All framework to address obesity and the tobacco strategy are just two ways in which Transforming Your Care will help people to improve their health and well-being with the support of health and social care.

On maternity and child health, I believe that keeping pregnancy and labour normal to reduce interventions and promote normalisation of birth, while increasing the percentage of women accessing antenatal care in the community, is essential. Transforming Your Care will seek to support healthy pregnancies and promote good parent/child relationships in the crucial early years. It is also important that children be given the best possible start in life. Transforming Your Care will support that through a focus on early intervention and a multi-agency approach to family care and childcare, preventing children from having to be separated from their family and enabling some children to remain safely with their family.

Transforming Your Care also seeks to ensure that people are afforded choice and high-quality care at the end of life, reducing the number of people admitted to hospital inappropriately during their end-of-life phase and ensuring that people are given the choice to die at home. There should be provision for specialist palliative and end-of-life support out of hours, as well as enhanced links between specialist and generalist services, with more staff competent in the core principles of palliative and end-of-life care.

Carers play a critical role in the overall care and well-being of the people whom they care for. I remain committed to improving the quality of life and support for carers. There will be new models of respite and short breaks, focused support for carers through assessment of needs and a range of community-based support, including working closely with voluntary organisations.

I am of course aware of the concerns that many have about the reconfiguration of hospital services. The HSC review team concluded that it is likely to be possible to sustain only five to seven major acute hospital networks. Creating hospital networks and reorganising acute services would mean hospitals not working in isolation but contributing to the provision of services to the population in the area and, where appropriate, in adjacent areas. The strategic implementation plan highlights the need to guarantee the sustainability of our hospitals by ensuring that all acute services adhere to best practice in quality outcomes, infrastructure and staffing. Fragility in hospital services needs to be addressed by ensuring that roles are sufficient to support best outcomes and staffing levels in line with best practice. The role of some hospitals would be expected to change as they became part of a network, working with partners to provide services to their local population.

Many Transforming Your Care recommendations will be progressed through the population plans. Work is also being progressed on other recommendations from Transforming Your Care to ensure a coherent approach to change. For example, Transforming Your Care recommended the introduction of an electronic care record (ECR) in Northern Ireland. In May, I announced the signing of a £9 million contract for an ECR system that will transform how patients’ records are managed throughout the HSC and directly benefit everyone who uses the health service in Northern Ireland, joining up records to give better, safer, faster care. The ECR system will improve the safety and quality of care by ensuring that the right information is available in the right place, thus reducing the need for people to repeat their details needlessly. In February, I announced a Northern Ireland physical and sensory disability strategy and action plan setting out the strategic direction for the further development of services and support for disabled people over the next three years. The action plan contains the key actions and associated timescales for the delivery of those services and support.

To support the reform and modernisation of services for people with long-term conditions, I launched in April my Department’s policy framework document, ‘Living with Long Term Conditions’. It provides a framework within which commissioners and providers can improve services, share and extend good practice, and develop systems and practices that deliver best outcomes for patients, clients and carers.

Yesterday, I launched the new maternity strategy, which will provide a clear pathway for maternity care in Northern Ireland from pre-conceptual care through to postnatal care. What I hope those examples show is that we are taking steps to ensure that the vision of TYC is realised and that people will see a very positive change in how services are designed and delivered — changes that are focused on people.

I want to emphasise how crucial it is that we get the reforms right. I have only just received the draft strategic implementation plan and population plans, and I have not had an opportunity to consider the details. It is important that the documents are given careful consideration. They are important documents, and I wish to study them carefully. I encourage Members to do the same. Not to do so would be failing in our responsibilities. The summer period is not an ideal time for consultation, particularly on issues as important as this. I therefore intend that, before consultation on the plans is formally launched, there should be a period of further quality assurance work on the plans. That would also provide an opportunity for engagement with clinical leaders in advance of formal comprehensive consultation and stakeholder engagement being launched in September, once the draft plans have been agreed by me. In effect, that will mean that the draft plans may continue to be subject to refinement until the quality assurance and engagement processes have been completed. The plans would then be finalised after the autumn consultation exercise, and further public consultation would be undertaken on any significant service changes being proposed in light of conclusions on the implementation plan and population plans.

In the spirit of openness and transparency, I have asked that the draft population plans and the strategic implementation plan are made publicly available today and ahead of the formal consultation in the autumn. The plans will be available from today on my Department’s website at www.dhsspsni.gov.uk. I ask Members, health and social care staff and the public to familiarise themselves with the documents. I stress again, though, that the consultation exercise will not be launched until September.

Since taking up office as Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, my overriding aim has been to ensure that the safety of patients and clients is paramount and that the quality of care provided is improved. That is, I believe, an aim shared by people who deliver services daily throughout our health and social care system. It is vital that we continue to make the decisions and take the actions that are needed to improve our health and social care services. I am pleased that progress is being made across a number of areas of care in line with the timelines envisaged in the ‘Transforming Your Care’ report, and that today I can announce that we have taken another step forward with the production of draft population plans and the strategic implementation plan. We have made a good start. We need to continue to build on that so that the public and the HSC workforce start to see and experience the transformation of services that they deserve. I commend the statement to the House.

Sue Ramsey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the statement and the further update from the Minister on ‘Transforming Your Care’. I also thank the Minister for briefing the Deputy Chair and me earlier on the contents of the statement.

Minister, the view in the community is that, although people hear about ‘Transforming Your Care’ regularly, not many people know the details. It is important that, at every opportunity, we give as much information as possible to the people who are going to be affected by the change in the way health and social care is delivered, including the workforce, which you rightly mentioned.

TYC is about taking people out of the acute sector and into the community. Community pharmacy needs to play an important role in that, and the uncertainty around community pharmacy is not helping. Will the Minister update us on what is happening with community pharmacy? In the June monitoring round, the Minister bid for £18 million to implement TYC, and the bid was not met. Is the lack of funding going to present the Minister with problems in moving forward with the implementation of TYC?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

There were a number of issues raised. First, I think it is absolutely critical that we establish the views of the public on these issues. Often, a report such as this will be produced and will almost pass the public by, but whenever you get to the raw implementation of it, when a residential home is being closed that is in your area or that serves a member of your family, it will stir the public up. Transforming Your Care is about so much more than that. We need to engage with the public in a very meaningful way to ensure that they have a good understanding of where we intend to go and to hear what their views are. Do more people want to receive more care in their own home? I suspect that they do, but I want to know whether that is the case with the public. Do more people want to receive more care in the primary care settings as opposed to in hospitals? I suspect that they do, but we need to establish that. I accept that we need a robust system of engagement during the process of public consultation and that it needs to be meaningful.

I regret that there is uncertainty in pharmacies, but I accept that it exists within that sector. One course of work that is being done is the margin survey. It is absolutely critical that that is completed; that we have a good grip on the profitability of pharmacy; that we look at how we can include pharmacy in the stronger delivery of services to people on the ground in the future; and that we ensure pharmacists receive remuneration for the work that they do.

The final part of the question was on the bid for £18 million that was required to deliver this review. The Department of Finance and Personnel made it clear to us, and we accept, that we first need to identify all the potential savings within the Department that we can put towards this, and that is what we are doing. There is an invest-to-save budget of around £30 million and we are entitled to bid for that where we cannot identify those savings. I hope that we would receive some of that funding, but it is our task and our duty to ensure that, where there are savings to be made within the Department, we continue to carry that out before we bid for further funding.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

The Minister has identified the fact that there has been remarkably little public engagement in this process up to now. I think that debate will only really start when names are attached to the reduction or increase of services. What is his view on the Patient and Client Council’s suggestion that a leaflet be distributed to every household in Northern Ireland to explain why he felt that Transforming Your Care was necessary and why we need to implement the policies that John Compton outlined in his report?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am happy to discuss any proposals around engagement with the public with the Patient and Client Council given its role, the work that it does and the expertise that it has developed. It is important that we seek to ascertain the views of the public for significant change in a very meaningful way, given that we have a budget that represents well over 40% of the public spend here in Northern Ireland, we have 725,000 going through our emergency departments each year and that everybody in Northern Ireland needs this service at some point in their life. I will be very happy to work with others, including the Patient and Client Council, which has a key role to play in this, to ensure that we get meaningful feedback from the public.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I welcome the Minister’s statement. I think that the refusal of the £18 million funding in the June monitoring round is a setback to driving this agenda forward, and I hope that the Minister will make a commitment that, if he does have to make any further cuts to meet that demand, they will not be from front line services or a failure to fill staff vacancies.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Can we have a question, please?

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

The Minister talked at length about looking after people at home, particularly the elderly and people with learning disabilities or dementia. Will he give a commitment that he will also support the carers of those people with adequate respite services?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I very much welcome the fact that a number of bids were met, including £10 million to deal with outstanding surgery and the backlog that has existed for a considerable period. I am delighted that we have made huge progress in the past year in some areas concerning outpatients, such as endoscopies, for example. We have made fantastic progress in reducing the backlogs that existed there, and we want to work very hard on doing likewise in surgery and in ensuring that people receive prompt responses to their care. I am very glad that that has happened.

I think that the Finance Department’s case is reasonable. It has established £30 million funding for an invest-to-save initiative. We, along with other Departments, are entitled to bid for that, but we are entitled to do so only when we have ensured that we have made the savings that need to be made in our Department. That is a course of work that I will continue to engage in. It is not about cutting front line services. In fact, last year, we had more nurses employed than we had in the previous year. So we have not been running about, cutting front line services. Let us dismiss that; let us deal with that myth. We have been working every hard on ensuring that waste that exists within the £4·5 billion budget is reduced, and I think it would be morally wrong for us in the Department of Health to continue to say that we want more money but not deal with the waste where it exists. Anybody who says that waste does not exist within a budget of £4·5 billion is living in a world of delusion. Waste is still taking place in the health service. We have not got to it all, and we need to continue to work on it. I look to Members to assist us in identifying that waste, and I will certainly respond to it where it is identified.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

One of the fears or, perhaps, unintended potential consequences, of the necessary reform of services away from centres and towards the community and the patients could be the accidental privatisation of many community services in the years ahead. In other jurisdictions, they have legislated around their reform programme in order to protect and defend against unintended privatisation. Will the Minister give a commitment that he will legislate here in Northern Ireland to do the same and ensure the NHS remains the people’s property and not some private enterprise’s property?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Absolutely not; that would be providing legislation not to deliver value for money. In my role as Minister, I have a responsibility to deliver value for money. The concept of the NHS is to provide healthcare to all who need it, free at the point of need. That is the important concept of the health service. In respect of domiciliary care and residential care, Mr McDevitt perhaps wants to go back to the days of the long wards in the Royal where people were kept for many years in geriatrics. I much prefer the nursing home model. Although none of us would look forward to entering a nursing home, it is considerably better than the geriatric beds, for example.

Many people with a learning disability have been taken out of such places as Muckamore and Downshire and been rehabilitated in other much better facilities, which are run by the private sector. This nonsense that the private sector is bad and wrong and that those who are involved are only in it for money, and that we should take absolutely nothing to do with it, is exactly that — nonsense. I want to ensure that we provide the best quality of services at the best value for money, and I will ensure that that is the case, no matter who is providing it.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Paragraph 5 acknowledges the increase in senior citizens that there will be in the years ahead. Can the Minister indicate how those population plans will improve the services for those senior citizens and carers and ensure sufficient respite facilities? There has been an increase in such chronic conditions as heart disease, strokes, diabetes, etc, and, already, concern has been expressed at the shortage or cutback in resources to tackle those conditions. Can the Minister assure the House that adequate funding will be provided for those chronic conditions?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Well, in terms of chronic conditions, it is about adequate care as opposed to adequate funding. Of course you need the funding to support the care, but we need to use our funding more wisely. Our budget is set to rise to £4·65 billion by 2015, but were we not to change anything, the actual requirement would be £5·2 billion. So, really, Transforming Your Care is an absolute necessity. Imagine if I was to come to this Assembly and say, “I actually need £5·2 billion just to maintain what we have, given the rising needs, so I want other Departments to surrender £550 million to enable us just to keep the thing going”. Yesterday, DRD was looking for more money for that Department; DEL wants more money to employ to help employ people; and so forth. I suspect that I would have great difficulties achieving £550 million over the next three years, so it is absolutely critical that we do things differently. That is why we have invested money in telemonitoring, for example. People say, “Why are you investing £18 million in something like that?” The difference that it will make is that it will keep people who have COPD, diabetes, asthma or other chronic conditions out of hospital, which will reduce our costs. It will keep people out of your emergency departments, which will reduce our costs, and it will provide a better service and better care for those individuals, because if their condition can be managed and we can respond to them more quickly, before that condition deteriorates to the point where they need hospital care, that is a win-win both for the individual and for us financially.

The Member raised the issue of respite care, and I think someone else raised it. It is a very important issue. Respite care, in my view, is fundamental to how we do things. As individuals, carers do a course of work that we could never hope to pay for and that we could never hope to replicate within the system. So, if we do not support carers, including the provision of respite care so that carers themselves do not fall into ill health, that will be completely negative and completely backward and will have serious implications for the services that Health and Social Care delivers. So, I am absolutely committed to providing respite care for carers and for the people that they care for.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I, too, thank the Minister for his update on Transforming Your Care. Minister, in your statement you said that it was essential that children be given the best start in life. Can you possibly tell us what plans there are to enhance early years provision with a view to improving long-term outcomes?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for the question. In terms of early years, I think that parenting is critical. We in Northern Ireland have a growing problem: a growing problem in our justice system, and a growing problem with young people starting families who are ill-prepared to start families and do not have the support to do it. Therefore, we require more intervention. Now, I come from a background of not believing in state intervention unless it is absolutely necessary. In this instance, it is absolutely necessary. We have too many children who are brought up and not provided with the proper nurturing, the proper educational support, the proper nutrition or the correct boundaries within life. The parents who are bringing those children into the world need help and support, and we will roll out and extend services such as family nurse partnerships to assist, because the investment that is made in those early years will bring significant and tangible benefits in later years.

All the evidence indicates that investing in early years and early intervention will deliver far more. For example, a child who ends up in a care home costs us around £1,500 per week. We can avoid those situations. We can help parents. If we can actually ensure that children get a better start in life, where they do not have those serious adverse incidents happening in their homes, we will avoid suicides and children ending up in the justice system, and we will reduce the vicious circle that is continuing to grow. That is something that we are committed to doing, and we believe that the family nurse partnerships are of significant benefit, and we intend to extend them further.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. How will Transforming Your Care impact on children with palliative care needs? What safeguards will be put in place to ensure that end-of-life decisions are taken in full consultation with families so that everyone understands the procedures?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Palliative care is critical. The role that the families of children with palliative care needs play in decision-making is crucial. There is nothing worse than having a child who has a terminal illness. Therefore, it is wholly appropriate that the parents have every opportunity to understand all the issues, what is available to them, including the clinical procedures and the drugs that might be available, and the potential benefits and negatives. Negatives can often be associated with some of the treatments. Parents and the families of loved ones or, in the case of older people, those people themselves should be allowed to make the choices that are best for them.

It is important that we can offer more palliative care in the home and community setting, away from the hospital. It is important that when people reach the point at which they know that the end of their life is coming quite soon, they can make the appropriate choices and die with a degree of dignity.

I do not see any dignity when a person who is in his or her own home or a nursing home is taken into hospital, goes through the admissions process, goes into a hospital bed and dies within 48 hours. That is not a dignified way to die. There is no dignity in removing people from their own facility, moving them in an ambulance and putting them through all the processes, diagnostics and tests for them to die only a short time later. We have to look at these things again. There is an opportunity to do that, working closely with our GPs and the community to ensure that people have the most dignified death possible.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement and the work on Transforming Your Care to date. Will the Minister advise on any plans to improve access to the most up-to-date treatments for heart attacks?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

We are delivering better results in respect of heart attacks, but we can do better again. The draft strategic implementation plan intended investment to ensure that everyone has 24-hour access to safe, sustainable cardiac catheterisation laboratory services. That includes the introduction of an emergency primary percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI) service, as required by the Programme for Government, with an associated investment of £8 million over the next three years.

With cardiac catheterisation, a very thin plastic catheter is passed into the heart chambers or coronary arteries. A coronary angiography is the most common test using a cardiac catheter. The procedure shows up the structure of the coronary arteries and detects any narrowing. The catheter can also be used to perform operations in the heart, including the insertion of balloons to widen narrowed coronary arteries, which is known as angioplasty. PCI, which is often referred to as primary angioplasty, is a treatment for heart attack patients that unblocks an artery carrying blood to the heart. The real benefits of that, as opposed to just injecting people with thrombolysis drugs, is that it reduces the muscle damage to an individual. The evidence is that if you had to wait for six hours as opposed to having this treatment within the first hour, it would take six years off your life as opposed to one year. So, having 24/7 availability across Northern Ireland for the 1,000 people who require such a service will save lives and also extend considerably the lives of those who recover from a heart attack.

That we intend to make that investment and deliver those services 24/7 is a very positive story coming out of Transforming Your Care today. It is good news for people who suffer a coronary incident.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome it. When does he intend to go public with this so that the public can have a view on his statement and voice their opinion, which he can report back to the Department if necessary?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Obviously, we will not go through the process in July and August, because we would be criticised, and rightly so, for engaging in a consultation process over that period. However, the documents will be made available at that point so that people can have their early considerations heard. We will quality-proof the documents before opening the public consultation in September.

As I indicated, it is critical that the consultation be meaningful and that we hear meaningful responses from the public. It would be unfortunate if we were to get caught up in discussion about this residential home or that one. Those are issues, and we certainly must listen to opinions, but there are far wider issues in the document that we need to listen to the public on, such as the creation of integrated care partnerships; the role of those integrated care partnerships; the role of GPs, in association with allied health professionals, in preventing people from moving into the secondary care sector; and the shift of budget from the hospital sector to the community and primary care sector. Those are all issues on which we need to hear from the public. Therefore, I want the process to be meaningful.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Minister, I join you in commending the staff and commissioners involved in meeting the tight deadlines for the population plans.

You referred to mental health services and population health and well-being, saying that they are crucial elements of Transforming Your Care. In the past two weeks, there have been four deaths through suicide in my constituency. The youngest person to die was 14 years old. Therefore, Minister, will you expand on how suicide will be tackled under Transforming Your Care, recognising that a collaborative approach will be needed to support families bereaved through suicide?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Suicide is one of the more significant causes of death in Northern Ireland. Sadly, almost 300 people took their own life last year. There was a reasonable reduction on the previous year’s number. Nonetheless, far, far too many people are still choosing to take their own life, for whatever reasons. Around 75% of those who commit suicide are men, a lot of whom belong to the younger generations.

I referred earlier to parenting. For example, where youngsters have three or four severe adverse incidents in the first few years of their life, they are 10 times more likely to self-harm or attempt suicide in their teenage years. Those are all things that we need to look at in the long term, but there are measures that we need to take in the short term to highlight the fact to people that there are better options. We are looking at creating places of safety. Those will not be in hospital emergency departments, because we do not think that emergency departments are the most appropriate places to treat people who have mental health issues and suicide ideation. We want to do a series of things. For example, we want to look at how we might use sportspeople to get messages across. Sportspeople are not immune to mental health issues. In fact, we saw that recently with the death of a young football manager in England. We need to use people who have a high profile and who can reach out and speak to young people in particular about other options.

I appreciate the support that I am getting from Ministers in other Departments. We met last week to discuss the issue. I have met all the Ministers on a one-to-one basis about the issue. This is certainly a course that we need to continue on. Minister McCausland, for example, is assisting us with the minimum pricing of alcohol. I heard what the ‘Belfast Telegraph’, for example, said about many people not agreeing with us on a minimum price for alcohol. However, all the evidence from psychiatrists indicates that alcohol makes a major contribution to suicide. So, in our efforts to reduce this awful thing called suicide, which has taken so many of our young people’s lives, we need to listen to all the evidence that is available and to work very closely together.

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I also thank the Minister for his update on Transforming Your Care. Obviously, changes will be required throughout the health service, and I assume that that would include the likes of the Ambulance Service. How are ambulance services anticipated to change in the years ahead?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

In the statement, I identified that there was the potential for 40,000 additional responses to 999 calls. That would put huge pressure on the Ambulance Service, which is delivering better in reaching its eight-minute response time, and so on.

The draft strategic implementation plan outlines proposals for the way in which our Ambulance Service would continue to develop new protocols that support the right care in the right place at the right time and with the right outcome. Our focus will be on ensuring that patients have access to services that meet their emergency and urgent care needs. All parts of our health and social care system, including the Ambulance Service, will have to work together to achieve that goal. Protocols need to be outcome driven, reflect best practice and provide alternatives to hospital attendance that support and enable people to manage their health safely in their home when appropriate. They will also mean that, when necessary, patients can be taken without delay to the most clinically appropriate destination. So, an ambulance will very often drive past one hospital to get to another that is the most appropriate for the delivery of that care. We just talked about PCI. Those interventions will not be available in every hospital, but it is critical that we get people to the right facility so that such a situation can be dealt with and the best outcomes delivered.

We need to work closely with the Ambulance Service on ambulance care and support where matters such as people waiting for handover times, and so on, are concerned. I do not think that it is a good use of the Ambulance Service for ambulances to wait for hours before an emergency department can take a patient off their hands. To ensure that the ambulance care that is provided is the most efficient possible, we can do so much more and we can do so much better.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I welcome the report. In the Minister’s statement, he outlined the 23,000 extra hospital admissions, the 48,000 extra outpatient appointments and the 40,000 extra ambulance responses to 999 calls that there would be over the next two years. Does he accept and understand that his population plans indicate that, on the Causeway Coast, an additional pressure is created by the tens of thousands of visitors over the summer period? Rather than speculation that the service at the Causeway Hospital will be reduced, will he take that into account and ensure that the hospital has an improved service?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

In spite of all the speculation, the report states that there is no intention of closing the facility at the Causeway Hospital. As far as the future configuration of services is concerned, there will be implications for individual hospitals, but our aim is to provide safe, resilient and sustainable services that can focus on an individual rather than on institutions. We have identified the need — the Northern Trust proposes this — for the trust to manage Antrim Area Hospital and the Causeway Hospital as one hospital on two sites, ensuring that there is 24/7 cover and that doctors are always available at both sites. So, given the speculation that arose some time ago, I think that that is positive.

However, I make it very clear that it is critical and essential that the services that are provided at Antrim Area Hospital and the Causeway Hospital are safe, resilient and sustainable. That puts a huge onus on clinicians in those hospitals to ensure that that is always the case. I do not want the royal colleges deciding at some stage that they are not prepared to support that service. Those decisions should remain in the hands of the Northern Ireland public, through the Assembly, the Health Committee and this Minister or whoever holds the office. Therefore, it is incumbent on those who manage the system and the clinicians who provide that service to ensure that the system is always robust. Those who access services in the Northern Trust do not deserve anything less than a robust, safe, sustainable and resilient service. I will seek to ensure that that continues to be the case.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Places like Mourne Stimulus in Kilkeel do fantastic work on a shoestring for people with severe learning disabilities. Will the Minister reassure the House that adequate respite care will be provided locally for those people?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I have had the privilege of visiting Mourne Stimulus. The Member is absolutely right: it provides a fantastic service. Great work is done there by the local community and great fundraising work is also done by the local community to further develop that service. We need to support those people. They raised the issue that many in the south Down area have to travel to Dungannon, for example, for respite care. That is an issue. We recognise the nature of the problem and need to look at how that can be addressed.

Given the location of Mourne Stimulus, the South Eastern Trust and the Southern Trust may need to work together to seek to address that issue. Newcastle falls into the South Eastern Trust area, and it may be appropriate for both trusts to work together to try to deliver a solution for people in the south Down area so that they do not have to travel such long distances for respite care. It is a particular problem if someone goes into respite care and something goes wrong. Someone may have just travelled an hour to Dungannon and an hour back, and a couple of hours later they get a phone call to be told that something has happened and they need to go back and collect their family member. They then have to make that trip again. We recognise that that is a problem and need to continue to try to address it.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I return the Minister to the subject of the Causeway Hospital. He just said that there is no threat to the facility, and I want to tease out what exactly he meant by that. Did he mean that there is no threat at all to the A&E acute facility at the Causeway Hospital, either in the hours that it is open or the range of facilities that it covers? Is that his assurance? Is there no such threat to those services now or in the future?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

In a previous statement I made in response to the Member for doom and gloom, I encouraged the people in the Causeway area to take some hope after Mr Allister had made particular predictions because he has a very strong track record of getting his predictions wrong.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Just answer the question.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Member does not like the answer and it is obvious why.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

You have not answered the question.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order.

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

He has also got this prediction wrong. The Causeway A&E is not closing. I have made that very clear, and it is in the report and the document around the population plans. For the long-term future, the Causeway Hospital and every facility in Northern Ireland have to be safe, sustainable, resilient and robust. It is for the clinicians in those areas to ensure that that is always the case. I can reflect and look back to when services were withdrawn, for example, in Dungannon, and no Minister or public representative had any say in that whatsoever. It is incumbent on clinicians, wherever they are, to ensure that they identify the system that is right for that area and that deals with the issues in that area.

Mr Campbell, rightly, pointed out that there is a huge influx of people into the Causeway area in the summer. On Friday, I travelled back home from the successful golf event in Portrush, and it took 45 minutes of driving at the speed limit — I was not driving, by the way — to get to Antrim Hospital. In the instance of someone who is quite ill and bleeding in an ambulance that is restricted to 55 miles per hour, such a journey can be very significant and last for over an hour. It is always important to get people to the right place, but there is also the issue of supporting quality services in an area where an already large population is enhanced during the summer. It is incumbent on the Northern Trust management, with local clinicians, to ensure that that service is sustained. There is no political will or desire whatsoever to reduce that service; it is in the hands of the local people who manage and run the Causeway Hospital.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the statement, in which you said, Minister, that you: “remain committed to improving the quality of life and support for carers”.

As you know, carers save the health service huge amounts of money every year. Have you had any engagement with fellow Ministers, particularly Minister McCausland, to ensure that carers get access to the available meagre benefits to which they are entitled?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Clearly, benefits are the responsibility of DSD. Various measures are out there to better inform the public of what benefits are available. I tend to agree that you will never be rich on the benefits that are around. Many people who are providing care are doing no more than scraping through, so it is important for DSD in particular to ensure that people have all relevant information. We in the Health Department are happy to distribute such information through GP surgeries and so forth, and to have it readily available for carers, who often have enough stress without worrying about financial stresses at times.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I, too, thank the Minister for his statement. I am sure that he will feel irritated if I momentarily go back to the Causeway Hospital issue. I am sure that the Minister will agree that someone such as him, in perfect health and travelling in a top of the range Superb car, will have no difficulty getting from Coleraine to Antrim. However, for somebody who has just suffered a stroke or heart attack, any degree of consultation will not shorten the long and tortuous journey between the furthest extremes of the Causeway area and Antrim hospital, which I understand to be the preferred choice of the health trust. Will the Minister please put a stop to the speculation about which he complains by telling the people of that area that the 24-hour A&E department in the Causeway Hospital is safe and that we, as politicians, will have the say on behalf of the population of 150,000, rather than the bureaucrats or the clinicians making the decision?

Edwin Poots (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I assure the Member that I am neither grumpy nor irritable today, and I am not going to become so now. I am, in fact, in fine fettle. There is no intention whatsoever of closing the emergency department at the Causeway Hospital. It has also been made clear that every hospital in Northern Ireland has to ensure that the services that they provide are safe, sustainable, resilient and robust. That is something that the royal colleges will expect; they will not put their staff into or allow their members to engage in a service that they do not believe meets those standards. It is incumbent on everyone to ensure that that is the case, but there is no political will to reduce services at the Causeway Hospital.

On his example of a person with a heart attack; they, more than likely, will not go to the Causeway or a whole series of other hospitals in Northern Ireland. That is because the PCCI services to which I referred will not be available in the Causeway Hospital. They will more than likely be travelling to Altnagelvin Hospital. As a consequence, they will have a better chance of having their life saved, and, if they get treatment, they have a better chance of having their life extended because they are getting the appropriate treatment. I have often referred to the individual from Ardglass who was taken past the Downpatrick hospital and treated at the Ulster Hospital for a stroke. That person walked out of the Ulster Hospital a week later, because they got the appropriate treatment in that facility. It was much better for that person to have travelled the extra 40 minutes to receive the appropriate treatment than to have come out of the Downe Hospital three months later having suffered the full impact of a stroke because the thrombolysis was not available. It will be the same with heart attacks. So, it is about having the appropriate services at the appropriate hospitals to meet the needs of the population of 1·8 million in Northern Ireland.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the Northern Ireland Housing Executive’s management of response maintenance contracts. I am aware that the issue has recently attracted significant media attention, and it is right and proper that it is in the Assembly that I make my position on it clear.

There has been a long record of concerns about the Northern Ireland Housing Executive’s contract management regime. Those concerns stretch back to the previous Administration, and, indeed, they culminated in my immediate predecessor, Alex Attwood, commissioning on 7 October 2010 a review of governance in the Housing Executive. That review followed a series of internal and external investigations into the Housing Executive that raised concerns that its governance systems were not sufficiently robust.

On 25 January 2011, he informed the House of the many recommendations that were to be implemented following the governance audit and gateway review. He advised that:

“a new discipline and rigour should be applied to contracts. That is necessary to protect tenants’ needs, the Housing Executive’s authority, the interests of the Department for Social Development (DSD), and government expenditure.”— [Official Report, Bound Volume 60, p187, col 2].

The then Minister also welcomed the endorsement of the reports by the chairperson and acting chief executive of the Housing Executive. He advised that the Housing Executive board:

“must ensure that implementation occurs expeditiously and faithfully.” — [Official Report, Bound Volume 60, p189, col 1].

On taking up post, however, and on foot of a briefing on the governance review findings and implementation, as well as on the issues leading to the termination of the Red Sky contract in July 2011, I expressed my concerns about contract management. I wrote to the chairperson of the Housing Executive board at that time asking for assurance that robust and focused contract monitoring arrangements were in place for all response maintenance contracts. I was assured that the monitoring arrangements for response maintenance contracts were very thorough.

However, in the light of my continuing concern that the issues that led to the termination of the Red Sky contract by the Housing Executive could be present in other contracts that had not been the subject of any full investigation, I asked for a forensic investigation of a sample of Housing Executive maintenance contracts to provide me with assurances about the other contracts, the quality of services to tenants and the proper use of public funds.

That work began in October 2011 and considered: the quality of the workmanship that was undertaken; whether the invoices that were submitted by the contractors and paid by the Housing Executive were appropriate in the context of the work that was requested and that that was actually carried out; whether the inspection regime in the Housing Executive operated as expected; and whether the key controls to manage contracts and ensure that the quality of works undertaken was monitored and that the price variations were identified, valued and approved, were adequate and operated effectively. The work also considered a classification of any financial anomalies that were identified during round one and round two inspections, which related to the contractors that were assigned Red Sky contracts and to other contractors respectively; and an extrapolation of any findings from round one and round two to determine the possible level of any overcharging or errors.

The investigation was to be carried out in two phases, with phase 2 to be taken forward only if the phase 1 findings provided cause for concern. I was advised that that was the case, and phase 2 began on 13 March 2012.

I am also aware that, in the wake of significant concerns having been raised by whistle-blowers, MLAs and the media, the Northern Ireland Audit Office decided to examine the Housing Executive’s management of response maintenance contracts in view of the seriousness of the problems identified in the management of specific contracts and the potential for important lessons to be learned across the public sector.

The Audit Office report, to be published in the autumn, will cover the management of response maintenance contracts and the termination of the Red Sky contracts; the inspection of repairs and maintenance work; the handling of complaints and whistle-blower allegations; and contract management and governance.

I am aware that the Comptroller and Auditor General has also raised concerns relating to the Housing Executive’s management of contracts as part of his audit of the 2011-12 accounts. I understand that those concerns will be included in his report on the accounts when the accounts are laid in the Assembly later this week.

During this period, my permanent secretary, who had chaired the oversight group that was set up to ensure the effective implementation of the recommendations from the governance review, advised me that he had concerns about the effective implementation of the recommendations that were made in the 2010 governance review on the management of maintenance contracts. In particular, he was concerned that the Housing Executive was not making full use of its internal assurance regime to improve contract management.

In view of his concerns, he asked for copies of all outstanding reports from the Housing Executive’s internal assurance team. Those indicated significant issues with contract management and considerable time delays in agreeing the reports with managers, which also meant delays in the timely implementation of the recommendations. For example, of 12 reports by the repairs inspection unit, two were finalised, and of the 10 inspections outstanding, two have been outstanding from November 2011, four from January 2012, and the remaining four were issued on 9 May 2012. In all, 11 of the 12 reports contained a negative rating and highlighted poor workmanship and inaccurate charging.

The permanent secretary then asked the Department’s head of internal audit to undertake an independent review of the Housing Executive’s actions to implement the recommendations in the 2010 governance review that related to the independent inspection of maintenance contracts, and specifically to determine the reasons for the delay in the agreement of reports from the repairs inspection unit.

Taking account of all the factors together, including my initial concerns, the findings from phase 1 of the forensic investigation and the fact that the Audit Office had sufficient concerns to investigate the Housing Executive’s management of response maintenance contracts, that caused me sufficient disquiet that I brought my performance review meeting with the chair of the Housing Executive forward to discuss the issues fully and to gauge the will and determination of the board and the senior management team to effect the change that is required. I asked the board to consider a number of issues that I raised, and I received its response on 29 June 2012.

I wish to consider further the detail of the response. Although it states that significant progress has been achieved, it acknowledges that more needs to be done. On the basis of the evidence that I have received to date, however, I cannot be assured of the board’s conclusion in the letter that there is a clear demonstration of the board’s commitment to addressing the issues raised in an effective and timely manner.

On 29 June 2012, I received the draft report on the forensic investigation that I commissioned. As it was received only in the past few days, my officials and I need time to consider it in detail. Nevertheless, I am very concerned that the findings and evidence clearly demonstrate that there are considerable issues in relation to the Housing Executive’s management of response maintenance contracts. The key findings in the report cover the quality of workmanship; invoices submitted by contractors; completion of work on a timely basis; Northern Ireland Housing Executive inspections; the ability to recover overcharging; and duplicate schedule of rates codes.

What does that mean for tenants in their homes? Many poor workmanship issues were covered. For example, in one change of tenancy, a back door was so badly fitted that it had to be removed, planed and rehung. A new door to a bathroom failed to lock. A handle to a cistern came off. Redecoration was of a very basic standard. Two new doors that were fitted to a newly fitted kitchen were off within nine months of installation. A blocked gully to a rear yard was still partially blocked and backing up, and the gully cover was missing. A socket for a washing machine was faulty. Other examples include more doors being claimed for than existed in a house. A new fan was fitted in a kitchen, but the new fan and a non-existent bathroom fan were serviced. Fire doors were fitted to a kitchen and living room where they were not required. A door was fitted with an excessive gap. Extensive work was done to a front door, but screws were missing from the hinges. Floor tiles were poorly laid, and there were lifting tiles. A gutter and downpipes were provided to the wrong side of a party line and were considered unfit for purpose.

I should point out that the report consists of three large lever arch files. It runs to several thousand pages, and there is page after page of such examples. There are many more examples, but I do not need to go into them. They clearly indicate that tenants are not getting the services that are expected or being paid for by the taxpayer.

The findings in the draft forensic investigation report give me grave cause for concern in relation to the Housing Executive’s management of response maintenance contracts and its ability to respond to the issues, particularly as the Housing Executive disburses and is accountable for huge sums of public money: some £600 million a year, of which over £170 million is spent on maintenance. That reinforces the types of concerns that were noted in the Northern Ireland Audit Office’s work, the Department’s examination, and, most importantly, the findings of the Housing Executive’s internal assurance teams. I will copy this draft report to the Housing Executive for comment, and I will ask it to consider the issues raised and respond to me by mid-August.

I have also received a report from the Department’s head of internal audit, who undertook the independent review of the actions undertaken by the Housing Executive to implement the recommendations of the 2010 governance review relating to the independent inspection of maintenance contracts and specifically to determine reasons for the delay in the agreement of reports from the repairs inspection unit. Once again, although officials will wish to consider the report in detail, its overall conclusion is that senior management in the Northern Ireland Housing Executive have not acted quickly enough to resolve the issue of the agreement of the draft reports from the repairs inspection unit.In expending so much effort in debating the methodology used in producing the reports, the Housing Executive has failed to focus on the reports’ significant findings. Time that could have been better spent addressing the issues identified has instead been lost in protracted internal debate.

Taking all those factors together, I believe that the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, as an organisation, has, to date, failed to demonstrate the required response to known shortfalls in contract management in a manner that either recognises the importance and significance of the issues or demonstrates an unequivocal determination to address the matters with the necessary pace and urgency. I feel that tenants and the taxpayer are not getting the quality of service that they have the right to expect.

Let me also point out that this sequence of events relates only to the management of response maintenance contracts. I therefore have to assume that those types of problems may also be evident in the way in which the Housing Executive manages its contracts, such as planned maintenance contracts on which it spends £92·5 million a year.

The board has taken some actions very recently to start to deal with the issues, but I do not believe that they address the root cause of the matter. I continue to have major concerns about the culture in the organisation and the level of aspiration in the Housing Executive to deliver a quality service to tenants. I also need much more assurance that there is the necessary drive, determination and capability in the Housing Executive to effect the required change.

I must, therefore, take immediate action to ensure that the Housing Executive deals effectively with the issues and that the situation does not continue, particularly following the awarding of new contracts on 1 August 2012. I intend to introduce, with immediate effect, special accountability measures that must bring about improvements efficiently and effectively. The measures will significantly enhance the current oversight arrangements between my Department and the Housing Executive.

I will ask the Housing Executive to put a comprehensive work plan in place immediately. It will focus on the areas that I specify in which action must be taken to ensure the provision of quality services to tenants and the proper use of public funds. That will be informed by the findings from current reports and investigations. The work plan will be subject to my approval, and the Housing Executive will be required to provide me with fortnightly reports on the issues of concern.

In view of the fact that there have been significant delays in the implementation of the recommendations in internal audit and repairs inspection unit reports, particularly when those have been critical, I will also require that my Department has sight of all draft internal audit reports and repairs inspection unit reports as soon as they are produced, along with a timetable to ensure that the reports and recommendations are agreed and implemented immediately. Those reports are an important management tool. If many of the recommendations in the outstanding draft reports had been taken forward and implemented by management in a timely, effective manner, we would not be in the position that we are in today.

There will also be an increase in the number of accountability meetings between my Department and the Housing Executive. They are currently held quarterly but will now be monthly. The meetings will focus on the areas about which I have concerns. I will advise the board of the Housing Executive of the details of my special measures. I intend to keep all this under review over the coming weeks, and if I do not see improvements, I will consider whether any further action is needed.

Among the critical questions that I will be asking is this: how did these failings occur? What was the culture and practice in the Housing Executive that allowed this to happen and, indeed, to continue for so many years? I also undertake to report to the Assembly again in the autumn to provide an update.

I think that it is important that I comment on the resignation of the chairman of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, which was tendered on 29 June. The chairman’s decision to resign at this time was entirely a matter for him. My concerns have always been the management of contracts; ensuring value for money for the public purse; and, most importantly, ensuring quality service for tenants. It is a challenge to the board and the management team to show the required leadership, drive and determination to deal with the issues.

Finally, we need to look to the future. As you know, my predecessor commissioned a fundamental review of the Housing Executive. I have been considering this review and further analysis that I commissioned. I hope to make a statement when the Assembly returns that will set forward my vision for new housing structures in Northern Ireland that will improve delivery and services for tenants and the taxpayer. One thing is clear to me: it is time for change, urgent change.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his comprehensive statement. I, Mickey Brady and the Committee Clerk met the Minister and his officials this morning to go through the report. Departmental officials with give a further briefing to the Committee for Social Development on Thursday morning.

Clearly, the report makes for gloomy reading, and I presume that it will have perhaps quite a negative impact on the overall workforce in the Housing Executive. That needs to be addressed urgently. I appreciate that the Housing Executive will have a number of weeks to respond to the report.

In the Minister’s statement, he raised the question of how these failings occurred. I repeat what I said in our private meeting: we will await the full response from the Housing Executive on this and the further reports into this matter. We are concerned that we are dealing with the quality of workmanship carried out in people’s homes and the expenditure of vast amounts of public money. All of that has to be protected, and the Minister will have our full support in the quest to ensure that that happens. There has been a culture in agencies and, perhaps, some Departments of the responsibility never seeming to lie anywhere. Can the Minister assure the House that, when the reports are being developed and worked through, we will get to the bottom of where the responsibility lies in the agency and, if need be, the Department, in respect of any culpability over not ensuring that public money was spent wisely? If the reports have been commissioned and were sitting on someone’s desk, where were the trigger mechanisms to ensure that those were dealt with as a matter of urgency?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I assure him that, as I said in the statement, we are getting to the point where we can see the overall picture. We need to know how that situation arose and how it prevailed in the Housing Executive over such a number of years. I will want to know how that happened. We need to get to the bottom of it and see where responsibility lies. I will pursue that to the very utmost of my ability.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I remind Members that the Chair of the Committee gets some latitude for his question. Quite a lot of Members have indicated that they wish to ask a question, and I ask them to be concise.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I welcome the fact that accountability measures have been put in place to maximise the provision of quality services. Is he now satisfied that the adjacent contractors who took over the Red Sky contracts did not have the same issues as Red Sky?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question, which is an important one. When I came into the Department, one of the first matters that I had to deal with was the ongoing issue around the Red Sky contracts. At that time, the action of the Housing Executive was to take contracts away from Red Sky, where there clearly were issues and problems, and shift them to other contractors. At the time, I asked the Housing Executive whether it could assure me that we were not taking work away from a company with problems and giving it over to another company with the same problems. The evidence that I now have from the various reports that I have referred to, including the draft report from ASM, indicates that there are significant issues and that those issues have been identified across all the contractors examined and a wide range of Housing Executive offices. These issues relate to payments for substandard work, work not carried out and poor quality of workmanship. However, these are contractual issues and due process must be followed. The Housing Executive has to be allowed the opportunity to respond and, indeed, take any relevant matters up with their contractors through the normal process.

I assure you that I will return to the Assembly when that process has been completed. My focus has been on tackling contract management failings wherever they lie. If you are looking at the broad scheme of things, yes: there were issues in Red Sky. However, there were also issues with the other contractors. If you are looking at the scale of the issues, there is not much difference.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I, too, welcome the statement, which must have been difficult for the Minister to bring to us this morning. Many years ago, I served my time, not in the sense usually associated with this place, but as a maintenance joiner. It is a difficult job to quantify, and it was within my own family. Is the Minister content that the way in which the contracts were written in the first place priced the jobs properly so that they could be done, or was there a suggestion that the companies had priced them so tightly that they basically could not make enough money and they went for the extras? Could I also —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I think that the Member has asked his question.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

— ask whether he has any evidence of fraud on one side or the other?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

With regard to the Member’s first point about contracts, those start on 1 August. Those new contracts are different to the previous contracts. More work has to be done to look at how those previous contracts were originally written, managed and monitored. With regard to the Member’s second point, if somebody claims that they installed 12 doors in a place but installed only eight or, as in an earlier example, paved a garden that did not exist — the Member, I think, is nodding and, in fact, using the word “fraud” himself — something rather strange is going on to say the least.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his statement. It has to be noted that the Northern Ireland Housing Executive has transformed housing here in Northern Ireland for the better over 40 years. However, shoddy workmanship and poor performance is unacceptable to tenants and taxpayers. The examples given in the statement, to use the Minister’s own words, are not much different in nature or scale to the failures of Red Sky. Given that, can the Minister explain why he attempted to derail the termination of Red Sky contracts this time last year?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I think, perhaps, Mr Durkan failed to understand what I said earlier. Would Mr Durkan advocate, or does he think that it is a good idea, to take work away from a contractor who is performing inappropriately and give it to another person who is doing virtually the same thing? That is the question that he needs to answer.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, were you surprised by the resignation of the former chairman of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive on the day that you received the ASM Howath forensic audit report?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The resignation of the chair was entirely a matter for him to decide. However, I was somewhat surprised at the timing, as I met the chair and put forward my concerns to him last Tuesday, many of which he should already have been aware of. The issues that have given me cause for concern have been present in the organisation for quite a number of years. They have been systemic and endemic over the past eight years. Clearly, there are significant questions to be asked around the role of the board and the chair, who has led the board since 2004, in seeking a resolution to those ongoing and prevalent significant issues. In the near future, the further reports that I have referred to will raise even more questions, which must be answered.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. Sometimes, Minister, the perception is that these problems occur in the large urban areas and in the larger Housing Executive offices. Do you consider that these problems are endemic throughout the Housing Executive, particularly in the smaller towns and rural areas that the Housing Executive deals with?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I have not had the opportunity to go through the several thousand pages, because we got the report only the other day. However, the information that I have been given from an initial study of the report is that it occurs across all the areas and all the contractors who were inspected so far.

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Given that you stated that you have been considering the review, and given everything that we have heard today, does that not place even more emphasis on implementing the long-awaited, fundamental review of the Housing Executive?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. The review of the Housing Executive was initiated under my predecessor. The PricewaterhouseCoopers report was brought forward. We have looked at that and done some further work. I hope to bring forward recommendations as soon as possible. However, that does emphasise the importance of moving forward with the review of the Housing Executive.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

The Minister said that he will now be copying the draft report to the Housing Executive for comment and that it will be responding to him by mid-August. When does he anticipate that the full, finalised report will be published? Is he confident that the public will have confidence that there will be value for money in those sorts of contracts in the future?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I have only just received the report in the past few days. It is extremely detailed, and my officials and I will need some time to consider all its implications. There is an issue around aspects of the report that are classified as commercial in confidence. However, I am committed to releasing as much information as possible in due course within those confines. We need to have openness, honesty and transparency about all this. We are dealing with one of the largest public sector bodies in Northern Ireland. We are dealing with hundreds of millions of pounds a year. It is important that the general public and taxpayers — as well as tenants — have confidence that they are all getting value for money.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Towards the end of his statement, the Minister referred to the culture and practice in the Housing Executive that allowed these things to happen. There is an elephant in the room, Mr Deputy Speaker, and somebody needs to identify the elephant. The Minister has just got the document. If he cannot respond to my question today, I will be content if he responds after the summer. What was the distinction between the Housing Executive’s treatment of the Red Sky contract and the other contracts? What was the distinction? What was the underlying emphasis that made that distinction by the Housing Executive possible?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

On the issues involved, there is very little difference between Red Sky and other contractors. The problems were across the board. Different areas, different contractors, but the same issues: overcharging and poor workmanship. At this point, I cannot answer the question as to why one particular contractor was selected for attention at that time and others were ignored, even though it was pretty obvious, from even the most cursory inspection, that this was a wider issue. I cannot answer that question at the moment. In due course, we need to get to the bottom of that sort of issue.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement. In looking at the culture and practice in the Housing Executive, will the Minister, when he has read the document, be able to assure the House that there are no discriminatory practices in the Housing Executive, whose workforce is under-representative of the Protestant community? In my constituency, the Housing Executive built houses in Twinbrook and Poleglass, while the Protestant community was neglected. Minister, when you have had time to read the report in full, we will need an assurance that no discrimination is taking place in the Housing Executive now.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I certainly will want to ensure, as I think we all would, that there are no differences drawn and no discrimination, and that everything is done on a fair, honourable and equitable basis. I welcome the opportunity to put that on record. It is absolutely essential that we move forward in Northern Ireland, not just with this but with every issue, in a way that is fair and equitable. That should be the desire and commitment of everyone, and I am sure that any efforts that are undertaken to ensure that that happens will be welcome.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Like others, I think that there are some shocking elements in it, and, no doubt, there will be more to come. Does the Minister feel that the Housing Executive is capable of managing the culture change in the organisation that he is referring to?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The whole issue of how we move forward is important. I believe that the organisation has failed to respond to known shortfalls in contract management either in a manner that recognises the importance and significance of these issues or in a manner that demonstrates an unequivocal determination to address these matters. The board has taken some actions to deal with the issues, but I do not believe that, to date, those address the root cause of the matter. I still have major concerns about the culture within the organisation and the level of aspiration in the Housing Executive to deliver and to provide me with an assurance that there is the drive, determination and capability within the organisation to effect the change that is required. I need answers to these issues, and that is what I will be focusing on.

As we move forward, that places tremendous responsibility on the board and on the senior management team. I met the former chairman earlier in the week, and I put forward my concerns to him. Many of those concerns should not have been new to him or to the board members because they have been causing me concern for some time. As we move forward, there are significant questions to be asked about the role of the board — including the chair, who was, in fact, in post from 2004 — in seeking a resolution to these significant issues. As we move forward and other reports are produced, those are questions that are going to be asked over the next number of months. I am sure that the questions that I have raised today will be asked again by others, and they are questions that will have to be answered.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I carry no torch for the Housing Executive. I have seen enough shoddy work and had other experiences to cause me to share the anxiety of many. However, I want to ask the Minister about the process that he has followed. He has arrived at the point of a pre-emptive strike, whereby he is introducing a form of direct rule of the Housing Executive by his Department on the basis of a draft report that he has just told us he has not fully read and that the Housing Executive has never seen, if I understand him correctly. Therefore, it has had no opportunity to comment on it or to correct, if that were appropriate. Does he think that that process is sufficiently natural justice compliant to arrive at the point that he has arrived at?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I am absolutely confident that the way in which we have handled the issue has been the right approach. It has been a measured response, and it has been the correct response. The issues that are identified in the ASM report are not new. They are issues that have already been identified in a forthcoming report from the Audit Office and in the Housing Executive’s internal reviews. Its own inspection unit identified those issues, but, as I said earlier, the reports sat on desks, perhaps from November last year, for six or seven months. It is only now that questions are being asked that these things are being extracted. In fact, they were only extracted when one of our departmental officials was put in the Housing Executive to do some work. It was only then that these things emerged. Therefore, there is the evidence of the internal inspection unit in the Housing Executive, and there is also evidence from the work being undertaken by the Audit Office and from this work. There is a pattern here.

It is not a single, pre-emptive issue. A whole series of bodies of evidence have emerged. That is why it was important that I came to the House at the earliest opportunity, given the importance and scale of the issue and that, ultimately and as the Member stated, the Housing Executive is a matter of real concern for every Member. On that basis, it was essential that I came here. I will return to the matter at the earliest opportunity in the autumn. Indeed, as I said, others will also return to it.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is, indeed, of great concern that we are failing to provide some of the most vulnerable people in our society with the fundamental right of good shelter. This is a concerning statement, and it will take the Assembly some time to digest the reports. Will the Minister publish all the reports in conjunction with the statement? Also, why was the work of Red Sky staff not part of the wider review of Housing Executive contracted maintenance work?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

As I said, the report fills three large lever-arch files and has several thousands of pages. Some of the material is in commercial confidence, but something can certainly be made available in due course. I want to be as open and transparent about this as possible. I think that that is crucial. So, we will look at that over the next while to see what can be done.

A year ago, the Housing Executive had a review of Red Sky. We then simply repeated that process with the other contractors. So, when you put all this together, you get the overall picture. I cannot answer your question about why the work did not initially cover the other contractors, in addition to Red Sky, particularly when contracts were taken from Red Sky and given to the others. That question needs to be put to others. When I came into the Department, I was determined to make sure at the earliest opportunity that the same questions were asked so that everybody and every contractor was treated fairly and equitably. I do not discriminate; I want this done fairly.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am a bit concerned that, in the midst of dealing with what is obviously a very important matter, the whole issue has been sectarianised. I was one of the people who complained about Red Sky after I stood in homes that had been badly repaired. Many hundreds of other people in west Belfast did the same. Can the Minister guarantee us that there will be no political or sectarian approach to the outcome of this?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I welcome the opportunity to put this on the record. The same issues that apply in one area apply in another, and the same issues that arose with one contractor, which, in this case, is Red Sky, have arisen with others. That is my point. I am not making any distinctions or qualifications. We are being open and frank about this. It is a widespread problem that impacts on people, whether they live in a unionist or a nationalist area. No matter what their background is, they deserve a good-quality service. The report has uncovered that the quality of workmanship is unsatisfactory in many areas.

It is quite clear from the review that there were anomalies in about half the jobs. The word “anomalies” covers substandard work, overcharging and a range of other things. Many of the jobs were substandard, and that is just not good enough. I am sure that the Member agrees that that is simply unacceptable.

The scale of this issue is very large. The figures for response maintenance, planned maintenance and grounds maintenance are £50 million a year, £90 million a year and £20 million a year respectively, and £170 million is the round figure for the total contracts budget. I touched on the fact that we were looking here at response maintenance. There are now some suggestions of issues with planned maintenance as well, which costs an even larger amount of money. In fact, there is some evidence of that.The Housing Executive has a major role in the management of contracts. It is core to the business and must be done properly.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I also deeply resent the air of sectarianism that was introduced, and Mr Givan has disappeared from the Chamber. Those houses at Twinbrook and Poleglass were built on the basis of need in the face of flagrant discrimination over years; that has to be placed on the record. Wherever houses are needed, be it Twinbrook and Poleglass or north Belfast, that is where they should be built on the basis of need.

I return to the original point teased out by Mr Allister in regard to the report itself. It is established good practice that reports into important matters, such as this important and sensitive issue, are shared, for the purposes of factual accuracy, with those people or bodies into which the reports have been commissioned, especially if the performance of those people or bodies is being called into question. Will the Minister confirm that he shared the ASM Horwath report with the Housing Executive to ensure fair progress and natural justice and to check factual accuracy? If he did not do so, does he consider this to be a fair and proper way to progress?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The report arrived in its final form on my desk in the Department on Friday. The Housing Executive will be given a number of weeks — to mid-August — to respond to it. The contractors will also get an opportunity to raise issues. However, the scale of the anomalies is such that half the jobs were affected. You might be able to explain away one or two anomalies here and one or two there. You will not be able to explain away anomalies in half the jobs. We now have a pattern of internal inspections in the Housing Executive — I brought this to the attention of the House for the first time today — which were carried out by the Housing Executive’s own people and which identified problems. However, those reports simply got buried and bogged down in the bureaucracy of the organisation and sat there. People argued about whether it was 29, 30 or 31 on a particular page, rather than saying, “There is a problem here; let us deal with it.”

The internal reports, which should have been brought to the attention of the board at the earliest opportunity, are part of the emerging body of evidence. So we have the Audit Office report that will emerge in the autumn, we have the Housing Executive accounts that will come from the auditor later this week with comments on those matters, and we have this report. New contracts will be in place on 1 August, so it is important that we get the air cleared and that people are aware of the background to the issue. All this material needs to be out as soon as possible, and I would have been very much criticised by Members of the Assembly had I not brought forward a statement today to get the information out there as soon as possible. It is important that Members are given their proper recognition and place and kept fully informed.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

I thank the Minister for bringing the matter to the House. He mentioned that claims were made for work done that was never carried out. What efforts have been made to identify the total number of such cases? Is there some sense of how much it has cost the public purse? What will be done to recover money from contractors who claimed for work that they did not do? Will compensating the Housing Executive for work not done be a condition for those contractors being able to apply for future work?

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

New contracts have already been awarded that will start at the beginning of August. With regard to overcharging and other anomalies, the ASM Horwath people have gone through sample contracts for each contractor, which can then be scaled up to get a fuller picture. Although they have been working intensively since the later part of last year, they have been unable to go through every single docket of every contractor for every job throughout Northern Ireland over the past eight or nine years. It would not be possible to do that. What they have now is a sense of the scale of it. However, where it has been identified that claims were made that were fraudulent, unfounded, inappropriate and improper, yes: the Housing Executive should be chasing after people. We are talking about public money and people should not be getting away with wrongdoing.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Business Office for making time available for this statement. I am today confirming that I am bringing forward proposals and shall table regulations for a councillor severance scheme in the rundown to local government reorganisation. This statement recognises that the people we serve will, rightly, ask challenging questions about this proposal. However, it also recognises that there are people who served our citizens and communities greatly, who have earned our respect and whom we should support as they leave political life. There are long-established councillors with decades of service and constituency work who represented the essence of good politics of local service for local people on local issues of daily life and human experience. This statement is about them.

We live in a time of stability, devolution and a united stand against terror. Those achievements came at an enormous cost — lost hopes, lost opportunities and, most of all, lost lives. My view is that this new order of things came, first and foremost, from those who held the line against violence from all its sources. Others now tell us that acts of reconciliation were worked at for decades. The first and bravest people of peace were all those, in all walks, at all times who held to the values of democracy. Counted among them were elected representatives, councillors, who spoke up for people and causes, with little financial recognition and significant personal and family costs — people now in their tenth, ninth and eighth terms in councils, stretching back to the 1970s. We are here today because of their resilience then.

In making this statement on councillors’ severance, I have, first, recognised and acted on some practices among elected representatives that cannot be defended and that a well-informed public do not wish to be defended. That is why, first, I proposed to Executive colleagues last November — and fellow Ministers agreed — that with local government re-organisation, there would be a ban on double-jobbing. Councillors will not also be MLAs.

Secondly, in recognition that that ban would need new law before entering into place — I may yet accelerate the commencement of that law with regard to its double-jobbing provisions once the Assembly has passed the legislation over the next year — I then also reduced the allowances paid to councillors who are also MLAs by two thirds as of April this year. As of this month, July 2012, the remaining one third allowance will be further reduced by half as a result of the independent review of MLAs’ salaries.

It is also my view that there are enduring issues around the pay and conditions of public and other officials who are paid fully, substantially or in part through the public purse. As DSD Minister, I pursued the issue of salaries of senior staff in housing associations. The fact that the vice chancellors of Queen’s University and the University of Ulster earn extravagant salaries, with no government oversight, when government makes such a major contribution to university moneys, also needs to be rectified. I will also take forward in the coming months the issue of salary levels at senior levels of merged councils.

That is the broader context in which I am bringing forward a councillor severance scheme. First, addressing double-jobbing, senior salaries and payments to MLAs who remain as councillors. Secondly, recognition of people who served Northern Ireland, Ireland and these islands with conviction in dark and turbulent days.

Since I went to the Environment Committee on 15 December 2011, which was a public session, and on a number of occasions since, I have asserted my view that a proper councillor severance scheme is appropriate. I repeated that view during the recent debate on the Local Government (Boundaries) Order. The Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2010 provides an enabling power for the introduction of severance arrangements for councillors. I now intend to rely on that provision.

When the previous Executive considered the planned reduction in the number of councillors, they agreed to provide severance for outgoing councillors. However, some fundamental things have changed since that time, which affect the nature of any severance scheme. That is reflected in the proposals and principles that I am bringing forward today and over the next short while. First, it was originally envisaged that there would be a dramatic reduction in the number of councillors under the new RPA arrangements, thus justifying in one way a broad severance provision. The Executive have now decided that the reduction in the number of councillors will be much more modest than originally envisaged. I therefore think that a more focused severance scheme is an appropriate response.

Secondly, all of that was prior to the economic downturn and the pressure on the public purse. The changed financial environment; the terrible pressures facing people, workless and working; the prospect of further London baseline budget cuts; and the scale of welfare change and cuts to family incomes have led me to the proper conclusion that a cap is necessary on severance schemes. That is one of a number of principles that will inform my proposals on the severance scheme, a draft of which shall be consulted upon over the summer. A cap means that councillors applying will not receive the severance payment that some might have previously suggested was proper. I believe that that is the right approach. People who served over a long time will receive recognition, but it will be more moderate than has previously been talked about.

There are a series of core principles that will inform the severance regulations. There will be a minimum eligibility period; namely, three terms of council service. It will not be a lesser period, although I am prepared to be convinced that it should be a four-term period — not a four-year term period. [Interruption.] That proves that I write my own statements. That is further recognition that longer terms of service and longer-serving councillors are at the heart of the scheme. In deciding on the three- or four-term rule as a condition of entitlement to the severance, I will do so mindful of the increasing councillor basic allowances payment since April 2001, which was £4000 at that time. Prior to that, from April 1998 it was £2500, and before that it was lower again. There are many councillors in the North who remember the days when it was much lower than even the £2,500 figure that was introduced at that time.

The severance amount payable will therefore not be on the basis of a fixed sum for each year of service. The original proposal was £1,000 a year for each year of service. Rather, the severance amount will be calibrated, with entitlement to lower sums per year for those with lesser years of service and with graduated payments per year for those with longer periods of service who worked for many years without anything like the remuneration available to councillors in more recent times. That calibration is to emphasise the principle that councillors with the longer periods of service are being treated in a fair and proportionate manner. Modelling has been, and is, taking place on how that will work in practice, and will form part of the consultation on the regulations. I am working through what the amount and the multiplier effect will be, but I can say to people that, for those who might be entitled to severance, in the early years of their entitlement, the multiplier per year will be a small amount, graduating to a higher amount for those who have served many long years of service.

As indicated above, there will be a cap on the total severance payment. As noted, modelling on severance options is ongoing. However, the consultation will be on the basis of a cap of no higher than £30,000. I may decide that it should be lower. The figures that were previously talked about were a cap of around £38,000 or £38,500. I do not think that is appropriate, sustainable or right and, consequently, I will consult on a figure of up to, and certainly no higher than, £30,000. As I said, that amount is proposed to assist the longest-serving councillors, some of whom have been serving as long as their council has been in existence, and the payment per year will be calibrated on that basis. I anticipate that it is only councillors whose service stretches back to the 1970s who will receive the higher severance amounts.

Clearly, only councillors in office at the time of the commencement of the scheme will be entitled to benefit under the scheme.

There is an ongoing debate about the funding of RPA. The Executive decided in November 2011 that there would be no central assistance with the up-front costs. In June 2012, a monitoring round bid from my Department to assist with costs was unsuccessful. I shall renew and expand that funding bid, because I believe that central government should contribute a percentage of the costs for a severance scheme.

Councillors who are also MPs, MLAs or MEPs will not be entitled to councillors’ severance. A provision will exist to enable an applicant councillor to nominate a person or persons to receive the award in the event of the applicant councillor’s death prior to the award being made. Councillor applicants who receive a payment will be disqualified from being nominated for a council election or by-election. That is consistent with section 4(1)(e) of the Local Government Act (Northern Ireland) 1972, as amended by the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2010. Any year in which a councillor receives a salary from the public purse for an office as an MP, MLA or Member of the European Parliament would not be a contributing year for the purposes of the severance scheme.

The severance scheme will be available quickly after the regulations are confirmed. It is intended that the scheme will run once and for the cut-off date for applications to be a significant period in advance of shadow council elections in 2014. I hope that it will run in September 2013 at the latest. The intention is that that date will be the maximum feasible one consistent with the timely and proper management of the severance scheme.

Introducing the severance scheme early and not waiting until later in 2015 will allow parties to manage vacancies through co-options and will give the new councillors the opportunity to gain experience of being a councillor before additional powers are transferred to the new councils. It will also ensure that councillors who are likely to be members of the new councils can lead the change and convergence to them. It will mean that any capacity-building for those new powers will be undertaken by the councillors who intend to seek election to the new councils.

Following the reform of local government, councillors will be taking on more work, as they will be serving larger councils and have an increased range of functions. Their remuneration should be reviewed to assess the proper level required and to recommend changes, if any. I believe that elected representatives, whether in councils, in the Assembly or at Westminster, should receive reasonable allowance for performing their duties. I appreciate that councillors perform an important civic role, and it is one that will, through the additional services that councils will be responsible for delivering from 2015, have a greater impact on the day-to-day lives of people.

I therefore intend to set up an independent panel to conduct a review of councillors’ remuneration and to advise me on the system and level of allowances that would be appropriate for the new councils. The Local Government Finance Act 2011 provides an enabling power for the establishment of an independent panel. The regulations needed to allow the panel to be established have already been consulted on, and I propose to have the regulations made by the autumn to allow the panel to be set up as soon as possible. The panel will be appointed using the public appointments procedure. I also propose to seek the advice of the panel on the allowances that should be paid during the shadow period.

As Members know, I have reservations about the 11-council model. I believe that a 15-council model would better reflect local identity, reduce up-front costs and ease the complex management of reorganisation. This afternoon, I will meet Fermanagh business representatives anxious about debt burdens, rate differentials and the consequences of merger. There was a different way to do RPA. It has not prevailed.

Finally, I know there will be some criticism of anything that looks like payments for politicians. I prefer to regard it as I believe many will regard it: as recognition for unsung heroes. It is also an essential part of our reform programme. That having been said, radical reform should prevail on RPA, prisons, housing and across public policy sectors. That radical reform should also be the benchmark for local councils. As we move forward, it is important to respect those who have served for so long in harsh times, under threat and upholding democratic values, while giving body and soul to the introduction of a new order of things: our councillor colleagues.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his statement. He mentioned the minimum eligibility period being three or four terms. When and on what basis will he make a final decision on the number of terms, and will he consult on that?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Chair of the Committee for her question. I spoke to her prior to making the statement in order to indicate to her my thinking. As I said in my opening remarks, today I am outlining a proposal that, in order to qualify for severance, you will have had to serve at least three terms, but I am prepared to be convinced that it should be four terms. I am in that range because, if you examine the pattern of payments to councillors, you will see that, prior to 1998, they were paid less than £2,500 a year. That is what they were paid prior to 1998 for public service and the accompanying scale of responsibilities. From 1998 to, I think, 2003, it increased to £4,000. Since then, it has increased, and increased disproportionately, relative to the increases in the years prior to 2003. My judgement is that, in those periods, after 1998 or 2003, councillors were receiving better recognition for the services for which they were responsible. Therefore, in my view, given that shift in the pattern of allowances being paid, that is the time frame in which a councillor’s severance scheme might kick in.

Yes, we are going to consult on the details of the regulations in order to drill down and find out what is the appropriate time frame in which severance should kick in and whether it should be three or four terms. Even when it kicks in, the payment calibration for those who serve three, four, five or six terms as a councillor will be at a much lower threshold than those who have served seven, eight, nine and 10 terms. There are people across parties who have served 10 terms in council life, going back to 1973. That is a lifetime ago. Many people in the North were not born when those people fulfilled their democratic service to the people of the North. They served in a year that was arguably the single worst year of terror and tragedy in the North of Ireland over the years of conflict, yet they stepped into the breach to uphold democratic values in moments of great turbulence, threat and difficulty. There are Members who know people who were threatened, and there are a few of us who know people who were murdered as a consequence of the conflict. This has been calibrated to, first and foremost, recognise those councillors who served the most over the longest period in the worst moments and to recognise, but recognise more moderately, those who entered political service later during those years, and to not recognise at all those councillors who have enjoyed somewhat better recognition as councillors in more recent times.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for an interesting statement. The second sentence of the statement accepts the prevailing public opinion that payments of any kind to politicians are not a popular thing at this moment in time. I am reminded of the advice of Sir Humphrey to Hacker when he said, “Very courageous, Minister”.

The fifth core principle of the Minister’s statement restates the Executive’s current position that the centre should not be paying for the costs of the RPA. Given, therefore, that locally raised rates will pay for some of this, as the situation stands, what would the Minister say to those who would say that it would be better to spend that money on council services than on a severance scheme?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

When I hear politicians saying that something is interesting, I do not know if that is support or lack of support. Perhaps some of your colleagues would like to indicate later whether that is support. I remind people that it was the view of the Executive and the parties in the Executive previously that, in principle, a severance scheme was something that should be taken forward. Circumstances have changed; I recognise that.

This is a difficult call; there is no doubt about it. However, we are at the point of change in council life in the North of Ireland, and I think that there is an argument to be made and won that people who fulfilled their democratic responsibilities, stretching back to the 1970s and 1980s, need to be recognised when leaving the democratic council stage.



I think that they are in a stand-alone category from many other categories of politicians. I would be dishonest to my own conscience, and I do not think I would be honest as a politician or a Minister if I did not say that I think those people deserved more recognition then, and deserve some recognition now. It may well be that that argument does not prevail in this Chamber in the different circumstances that we have now, but I think that that argument on behalf of those people that I am talking about is one that I have a responsibility to put forward, defend and, hopefully, convince people of. When comment is made on this, be it within or outside the Chamber, we need to put ourselves back in the position of those people in 1973 and subsequent years, and make an assessment about what is the proper and fair thing to do for them.

Yes; there are issues and choices to be made about how this gets funded and what the consequences might be for other services, but I have to say to the Member that the total cost of this scheme would be a fraction of the money that is in the current budget for the social investment fund. That is an £80 million budget line, and this scheme would cost a fraction of that. If the Member is saying to me that we have to make a choice in what we fund — I accept that we have to make a choice between what we fund centrally and what local councils have to fund locally — then that principle should be escalated to assessments of other ongoing funding streams involving much more money within government as we speak: moneys that are not getting spent.

I have to say to the Member that, whilst politicians may not be the most favoured species in many walks of life in the North, there is in local communities some greater appreciation of local councillors and the local service and duty that they have fulfilled over many years.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Seeing as I only got the statement 10 minutes before the Minister came in, I will neither welcome it nor thank him for it. I just want to ask him, in relation to his point about making a new bid for moneys, whether he can indicate what percentage he believes central government should pay for the severance. Failing obtaining any of the money from central government, how does he propose that this scheme will be taken forward?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

You did receive the statement in advance of hearing it. I remember occasions, Mr Boylan, when Ministers not very far from your own party were making statements in the House and there was not even a statement for Members in the House, so maybe you want to reflect on that.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Maybe you will answer the question.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I will certainly answer any and all questions you want to ask me. I regret very much that the Executive did not endorse a June monitoring bid for £2·3 million for two dedicated streams of work around council reorganisation, both to build local resource and change-management capacity, and to build up capacity around community planning. I regret that, but when the Minister of Finance advised the Executive that that was his view, I said that I would very quickly come back to him with a further paper, which will escalate the bid and the approach that I am going to take in terms of funding local government reform, on two levels. First, there is probably a need for more money to go into councils in the short term, and, secondly, we need to guarantee funding over the lifetime of RPA change. I will present that to the Minister of Finance in a letter before the Twelfth holidays. My argument will be that we now need to work out how we are going to provide assistance, not just out of monitoring rounds but on a rolling basis between now and the creation of the new councils in May or June 2015. It will be an argument that will be made in full recognition of the funding situation at Executive level. Two weeks ago, the Cabinet Secretary in London said that there will be cuts for 10 years. That was not him thinking wistfully off the record; he was sent out to send a message to people and to the devolved Administrations that, in his view, 10 years of cuts are coming. He did not get much of a denial from the Chancellor, who, within hours, said that he could talk only about the lifetime of the present Government. So, there is probably bad news to come. That is why, in every conversation that I have had with local councils, and there have been many such conversations over the past four or five months, I have told them that, although I will make an argument for central funding to help with the cost of RPA, the funding for it will have to come from a family of sources. It will come from loans, reserves, the disposal of surplus assets and, possibly, from moneys from a mutual bank. Some chief executives go as far as saying that RPA funding can be a self-financing business case and that it can all be funded by local councils. I do not buy that argument, but a number of chief executives maintain that that is the case.

So, how do we fund RPA in the circumstances that we face and in the more difficult situations that we may be about to face? We negotiate, work it through and exhaust all possibilities. On the far side of that, I think that we will come to a settled place about where the funding will come from. However, whatever its scale, an element of it will have to come from central government.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I declare an interest as a member of North Down Borough Council. However, judging by the Minister’s statement, that is not a financial interest.

I thank the Minister for his statement. He rightly identified that councillors were very lowly paid, particularly in the 1970s and 1980s. On a point of accuracy, I should say that the references to the basic allowance in the late 1990s and early 2000s are slightly misleading, because, during that period, councillors also received an attendance allowance. Indeed, when the switch was made to abolish the attendance allowance, the remuneration for councilors went down.

Will the Minister clarify whether, prior to making the proposals that are in the statement, he consulted with the National Association of Councillors? If not, does he intend to do so before he brings forward more detailed proposals?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I acknowledge and accept the point about the basic allowance. It is a fair point, and I should have covered all sources of income to ordinary councillors. Peter Weir has clearly demonstrated that his motivation for his political responsibilities must not be financial, given that he continues to be a councillor.

I eventually hope to have the Executive’s support to commence the ban on double-jobbing earlier than 2015. If the Assembly passes the Local Government (Reorganisation) Bill during the next year, I would like the Chamber and my Executive colleagues to endorse the commencement of a double-jobbing ban that would be effective for the shadow elections of 2014. I would like it to happen then, rather than a year later, which is when the new councils go live. I hope that people understand that I will seek that early commencement to ensure that, even in the twilight period between the shadow elections and the new councils going live, there will be no double-jobbing.

The Member asked whether I have discussed the statement with NAC and NILGA. It would be more accurate to say that they discussed it with me. Indeed, they have been urging me to move in that direction since last summer. I refused to do that, and they were not at all happy. However, they can speak about that for themselves. If we are to have a proper understanding of why this is a correct intervention at this time, and if we are to reflect the work of those way back in history who served political life in the North, my view was that some issues needed to be addressed so that a proper understanding of the proposal could be created. Those issues were double-jobbing, senior salaries and councillor allowances for those who choose to double-job. Given that two out of those three are being definitively dealt with and, I hope, will become even more definitively addressed over the coming time, I think that that is the right context in which to build understanding and support for this intervention.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Does the Minister have an idea about how many councillors will be affected, and will he expand on the projected costs involved?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. In answer: how long is a piece of string? I do not know how many councillors will apply for severance payments. It is up to them to decide whether to apply. Councillors may decide not to go for severance but stay on until 2015 and then retire; or they will not go for severance and take their chances in the 2014 shadow elections. However, those who do not take up the option of severance when the application period goes live will not have a second opportunity. It is a one-off offer that will be made in advance of the shadow elections. It will not arise after the shadow elections for councillors who have unsuccessfully continued to seek election. I cannot speculate on how many will or will not take up the opportunity. My assessment is that it may not be as many as people think. People will assess whether they would rather stay on and fulfil their democratic mandate until 2015 and receive the allowances over that period. Rather than take severance and go early, their sense of political duty or their own calculations may lead them to that conclusion.

There was talk — I will write to the Committee about this — that the previous £38,500 scheme, with a rate of £1,000 a year, would have cost a projected £4·5 million. I think that those figures are correct. I have a more moderate ambition than that for the scheme. I am reducing the cap, having graduation and far from £1,000 a year will be available to those who apply for severance and have not served for longer terms.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I welcome the statement, and I join in the tributes paid to many councillors who have given several decades of service.

Will the Minister clarify a couple of points? First, it is quite clearly the ambition on double-jobbing that, come 2015, it will not be possible to sit as a councillor and an MLA. That being so, what possible logic or sense could there be in such a double-jobber being able to stand in the 2014 shadow elections? Political expediency is the only answer: to try to get elected so that the electorate is not electing the person who will serve them but someone who will be substituted. Does the Minister agree that that would be wrong? Secondly, when he talked about three or four terms, did he factor in that, on at least one occasion that I can think of, the term was more than four years? Therefore, would he not be better to refer to 12 years or whatever?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

As questions on my statement come to a conclusion, I welcome and share the sentiments of the Member’s opening remarks. Many councillors paid a heavy price. A member of my party who was a Senator in this Building was murdered. Councillors and MPs were murdered, as were members of other political institutions. Last week, I was at Queen’s University to speak to Indian academics about marine management, and I recalled the murder of Edgar Graham, a matter of yards from the administration building there. A close friend of mine who became known as “witness A” in the subsequent inquest witnessed that murder. So this debate arises from the horrible prices that were paid and the pain that was endured by the many families whose members are or were committed to politics and the political process.That is the true backdrop and true motivation behind this statement.

Mr Allister tempts me, and I wonder whether I should take up the temptation. There is something incongruous — let me put it that way — for any party to use the option of secondment into councils in 2015 as a political strategy. For a party to deploy the use of secondments to reshape the life of council groups for its own particular interest would be incongruous. That would be held up to public ridicule, and I hope that that would not arise. However, because of the risk that that situation might arise, because I have been corrected by a leader of a political party about when double-jobbing kicked in, and in order to live up to the spirit of the principle on double-jobbing, on the far side of the reorganisation Bill being presented to the Chamber, we will try to commence the double-jobbing ban requirement in advance of the 2014 shadow elections and the 2015 councils going live. Let us create certainty, and let us not have any political meddling on the principle of double-jobbing to sustain bad practice.

Mr Allister is right that there is an issue with not all council terms being four years. That will be conclusively addressed in the consultation and regulations.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister and welcome his recognition of the unsung heroes and his action on double-jobbing. If you take that matter further forward and look at the dysfunction and lack of joined-up government that we are often criticised for, what is the Minister planning to do to link councils to the Assembly so that there is a formal linkage between the two? Once you remove councillors from doing both jobs, you have taken away one of the formal links in making sure that we have better joined-up government between the Assembly and the councillors.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

That is a very important question, because it conveys that we are going through a process of reform. As I see it, the more radical the reform, the better. On the far side of the reform, if the function of government centrally and locally has not been raised, what is the point of it? We would be letting down the citizens, communities and ratepayers. That is why the question is a very valid one. It probes the complexity of local government reorganisation and asks, “Are we going to get this right or get this wrong?”

Let me give you an example: on the far side of RPA, community planning will be a big function of local councils. As the planning powers get devolved, the concept of community planning will arise as a statutory function of local councils. If, on the far side of RPA, councils have a community planning function and there are no requirements for all the relevant agencies and Departments to sit in the room with local councils as they work through community plans with local communities, the whole thing will fall in on itself. Departments need to be less territorial, less defensive and more forthcoming in how they work together now and how they work together with councils on the far side of planning devolution.

I know that because I convened a meeting on planning issues in north Belfast a number of months ago, which fell in on itself. It fell in on itself because, even though a lot of Ministers were in the room, there was some territoriality going on. That is probably inevitable when it comes to north Belfast land issues. The consequence of that is that we have not got proper planning or joined-up thinking between Government Departments. The University of Ulster is moving to York Street, recognising the Carrick Hill residents, and sees the development of the lands behind the Belfast Telegraph in a proper manner rather than as a commercial grab for student accommodation by some big developers. If all of that is not integrated into the Royal Exchange proposal, on which there will be an announcement in the very near future, the point will be that we have not joined up, things will not be much different to how they were, and we will have missed the opportunity. The point is valid, and it is something that we need to get right over the next two years.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I remind Members that we are trying to finish questions on the statement before Question Time. There are still a couple of questions to go, and I do not want to have to interrupt the Minister of Justice.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I welcome the Minister’s statement and his particular recognition of the bravery of many councillors over many years, when they were targeted by republican and loyalist terrorists. When our party colleagues first stood up for the policing reforms, their meetings were interrupted and disrupted by Sinn Féin and other members of the Provisional republican movement.

Will the window of opportunity for councillors to take up the severance proposal be time-limited, and does the Minister have plans to introduce such a measure?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I concur with Mrs Kelly’s comments. It is not just about the people who served in public life in the 1970s. Even when all parties had signed up to democratic elections, there were councillors who, for the reasons that Mrs Kelly gave, still lived in the shadow of the past.

The severance proposal will be a time-limited, one-off opportunity and will, for the reasons that I have outlined, be quite moderate. It may well be that some councillors in the North will feel that the scale of the proposal is disappointing, but my judgement is that the configuration is right and justified. Councillors will not have for ever and a day to make up their mind about taking up the severance option. They will have to do so in good time and in advance of the shadow elections. There will be no second chance and no severance scheme after the shadow elections.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I want to put on record the Alliance Party’s recognition of the decades of service of some of our councillors in the most difficult of circumstances, including the roll-out of the new policing arrangements. I had the pleasure of working with them on district policing partnerships (DPPs), taking policing arrangements into areas where that had not been possible before and under some extremely intimidating circumstances. It is important that we put that on record.

My party welcomes the Minister’s plans for double-jobbing, because we have taken proactive measures to rule it out. However, is he satisfied that he can justify severance payments on those scales?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I concur with Mr Lyttle’s remarks and wish to broaden his theme. The policing change that was envisaged by Patten did not have anywhere to go until politicians and civilians joined the Policing Board and the DPPs.

In a sense, the politicians knew what they were getting into because they had experienced difficulties in the past, but it was the community representatives who stepped into the breach and who were, in some places, demonised and attacked physically and with bombings during that period. They were not from a political background and did not have a political pedigree, yet they served equally on the Policing Board and on the DPPs with those from a political background. Their role was enormous, and the contribution that they made to serving the policing structures between 2002 and 2007 is something that we have only too quickly forgotten in the context of subsequent developments.

I welcome the Member’s comments about double-jobbing. I will justify the scale of the severance proposal. Indeed, I would not have made the statement unless I thought that I could justify it. The proposal is not on the scale of a scheme that was proposed heretofore; it is more moderate. It is not a one-size-fits-all scheme as was proposed before. It is a model of a scheme that clearly favours those who have served the longest, in the worst times and with the least recognition during those times. Therefore, the ethics and principles around this are the right ones. There may be adverse political or other comment, but I have not been shy since December in saying that this, in all conscience, is the right thing to do in a moderate way to recognise people whose contribution was far from moderate.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As Question Time is due at 2.00 pm, rather than interrupting the Minister of Justice in his opening address on the Second Stage of the Criminal Justice Bill, I propose, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The sitting is, by leave, suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 1.55 pm.

On resuming (Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Molloy] in the Chair) —

Culture, Arts and Leisure

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Questions 2 and 6 have been withdrawn and require written answers.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

1. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to outline how the £12.6 million funding will be utilised for the cultural programme for Derry/Londonderry UK City of Culture 2013. (AQO 2313/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL) has committed £12·6 million to the City of Culture 2013 cultural programme over the next two financial years. That £12·6 million includes £9 million for the cultural programme of events; £1·6 million for marketing; and a £2 million optimism bias to manage unforeseen costs.

DCAL’s contribution will be spread across an agreed list of events and activities in the run-up to and during 2013. It will contribute to events management costs, technical and production costs, artists’ fees and the costs of venue hire. The funding has been allocated to achieve specific and measurable outcomes for the city and, indeed, the wider region in respect of the economy, health, education and social cohesion to provide a lasting legacy for local people.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Will she outline the benefits of the funding for not just Londonderry but the whole of the north-west?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for that question. It is accepted that the region has been underfunded over decades. This will help to generate the local economy, provide employment and develop skills that will hopefully make local people employable well beyond the year of the City of Culture. As well as that, you have hotel beds, restaurants and local companies involved in design and production. You have tourism and local transport. The All-Ireland Fleadh is also coming. It is estimated that well over €30 million has been spent. The GAA will hold its annual convention there as well, and that will bring in a substantial amount of money.

The social legacy is also very important. It will help to build and develop good relations among the people across the city and, indeed, the north-west. It will feed into the border counties and surrounding areas, which can only be good. The Executive’s contribution to this is quite substantial.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I understand that the Culture Company still has to secure £7·75 million for marketing and programming and that it hopes to secure part of that through sponsorship. If that money is not secured, does DCAL plan to make up the shortfall? If so, will the Minister give an assurance that any further funding required will not come as a result of a further pillaging of the Ulster-Scots and museums budgets?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I will take the last point first. Those budgets were not pillaged. When people do not spend their money, it is brought back into a central fund. It is a disgrace that the Ulster-Scots organisations did not spend their money, because the Ulster-Scots community then loses out. I have put that on the record before. If that continues to happen, I will look at the future arrangements. It just cannot continue to happen. Museums got a big uplift in their budget the last time. The money was used to pay for libraries, so it had nothing to do with the City of Culture.

The Culture Company and Derry City Council have told us that they are confident that they can get the remainder of sponsorship. Indeed, there was an event in London organised by Hugo Swire to help to secure additional sponsorship. I am reluctant — I think that the Executive are reluctant — to go above and beyond what we have already paid for. That is only fair. Almost £20 million of exchequer money is going into Derry City of Culture 2013. It is incumbent on Derry City Council and the Culture Company to secure the remainder of the sponsorship.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin agus as an mhéid airgid a gheobhaidh Doire ag an bhomaite. I thank the Minister for her answer. On behalf of the people of Derry, I also thank her for this well-needed boost to City of Culture funding.

Does she agree with me that it will have a great impact on not only the city’s employment and cultural product but have a longer-lasting cultural legacy?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The legacy is one of the important issues for the Executive. In response to the question asked by Danny Kinahan, the economic legacy will bring investment to a part of the North that has been deprived of investment for decades. It will also bring local employment and employability skills. Above and beyond that, it will help to promote a part of the North that has a brilliant cultural hub anyway and leave a richer and greater legacy. The Peace One Day concert was attended by between 8,000 and 10,000 people. All of the people who attended spent money, but not all of them were from the city of Derry. It is important that people from Belfast, people like me, get on the bus to Derry, which leaves Belfast every half an hour. Derry has a lot to offer.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answers, and I thank her even more for her financial commitment to the City of Culture. I look forward to seeing her many times at events in the city over the next couple of years. What proportion, if any, of the £12·6 million will be utilised for the cultural programme, community engagement and cross-community development?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question and his comments. To be honest, if I spend any more time in Derry, I will have to look for lodgings.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

You will get that too.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Yes, and I hear that you do competitive rates, Pat. The programmes and events bidding for the £9 million have to demonstrate not only that there is community engagement around the City of Culture but that it will endure beyond the ending of the 2013 initiative. I do not have a percentage figure, but we are working on the basis that, in the granting of the £9 million, community engagement has to be demonstrated. It also has to be demonstrated that there is a wealth of diverse programmes that reflect the rich cultural nature and heritage of the city and, indeed, the north-west. If percentages are attached to that, I am not aware of them. Our Department is working with the Culture Company to ensure that that happens across our £9 million for the events and initiatives.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Question 2 has been withdrawn.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

3. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to define the control of fishing rights in waters other than those controlled by her Department. (AQO 2315/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The owners of fishing rights may lease these to other parties, such as angling clubs, to manage the operation of the fishery. Constituted angling clubs and other interested bodies that manage fisheries may nominate members to be appointed private water bailiffs by the courts, for example. This empowers them to protect the fishery and ensure that any persons fishing on that water comply with all requirements. Access to private fishing waters is usually granted in the form of a permit or a day ticket upon production of an appropriate licence issued under the Fisheries Act and payment of the determined fee. In many cases, the owners of fishing rights are unknown, and, under the Fisheries Act, the Department has powers to allow persons or organisations as well as the Department to develop such derelict waters for angling. This not does entitle the developer to claim ownership of the fishing rights; rather these are held in trust should the rightful owner be identified and provide evidence of ownership.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answer. What is the procedure that must be followed by an applicant who wants to develop derelict water?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The procedures that need to be followed regarding the development of derelict water are defined under sections 3 and 4 of the Fisheries Act (NI) 1966. One aspect is when a person who is entitled to fishing rights to those waters cannot be found, and the second is whether the Department is satisfied that the water should be developed for angling. The Department will publish a notification at least twice in one or more publications, including local gazettes, with the intention to develop waters under a derelict water application. The Department will also investigate any objections and claims of entitlement received in respect of an application. In all cases, if proof of title is provided, support from the Department regarding a derelict water application will be withdrawn and water will no longer be considered derelict.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagra go dtí seo. Tá ceist bheag agam di: an aontaíonn an tAire liom gur maith an rud é go mbeadh clár lárnach de chearta iascaireachta ann? I thank the Minister for her answer. Does she agree that a central register of fishing rights would be a useful addition?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat. Aontaím leat go hiomlán. I totally agree. A central register would be of benefit, particularly to angling clubs. The Member may be aware that, during the last Question Time or the one before that, I stated my intention, along with my colleagues in the Irish Government, to try to pursue centralisation of fishing and permits because it makes it a lot easier. However, with DCAL in the North, it is much more complicated and complex than it is elsewhere. It is our job, collectively, to make it easier for people who partake in a sport and who become involved in inclusion programmes through angling and fishing clubs, instead of making it more difficult. It seems to be at a stage where it is more complex than straightforward. I want to make it straightforward.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I declare an interest as a member of an angling club. What assistance does the Minister’s Department give to angling clubs that wish to engage bailiffs to police various rivers?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

That is a very good question. Along with members of my Department, I met some angling clubs and some bailiffs recently about how to have a better working relationship and a better partnership. The anglers are almost the natural guardians of the waters and rivers. In the past, I think my Department took them for granted and did not give them the value and the respect that they deserved and did not include them as much as it should have. I assumed that that was due to a lack of understanding around the role that the angling clubs and bailiffs play in securing our waters. There will be a greater relationship where there is the demand for it. I look forward to meeting more angling clubs to talk about how those relationships can be further developed.

If I understand the Member correctly, he is saying that, when the relationship is good, it needs to be recognised, and that when the relationship is poor, there needs to be better communication. Everybody has the safety and sustainability of the rivers and waterways at heart.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Does the Minister agree that those clubs and individuals who hold fishing rights for Northern Ireland waters have made a significant contribution to maintaining the habitants of those waters?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I cannot give a yes or no answer, and I am not dodging it. As I said to Lord Morrow, I have met angling clubs. They fish all over, regardless of who owns the water. The feedback is that it is completely varied. Waters that do not belong to the public angling estate are a burden on the state one way or the other. The people who own waters need to take responsibility for those waters themselves. The Environment Agency and the Rivers Agency have been brought in and, at times, my Department has been brought in to give advice, and that will stand. However, there is a difference between giving advice and maintaining private waters. I am not in favour of maintaining private waters for landlords. I am in favour of maintaining private waters for citizens, who should have the right to fish and the right to enjoy the rivers.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

4. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to outline the policy for the distribution of community festival grants by the Arts Council. (AQO 2316/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

My Department has responsibility for the community festivals fund, which is delivered through district councils. A sum of £450,000 has been allocated each year since 2008-09 to the community festivals fund. Allocations to councils are calculated using population and deprivation measures for each council area. Councils are required to match fund the allocation from the Department. In addition, the Arts Council provides some funding for the arts element of community festivals under a number of its funding programmes, including the annual funding programme, the lottery project funding programme and the small grants programme. Applications to each programme are assessed under the criteria relevant to that particular programme.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for that reply. Is she in a position to elaborate on the criteria that her Department uses for awarding such funds to councils?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The amount that is brought forward is based on population and deprivation measures. The criteria, which have been forwarded to local councils, are fairly clear, in that the funding has to be for community festivals. Therefore, population and deprivation measures are used for each of the areas, and councils are required to match that. It really has to be based on how councils interpret our policy that says that the fund is purely for festivals. Some have said that the council fund be used for commemorations and marking significant events. However, that is specifically from our Department to councils.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Committee is aware that uptake of the community festival fund is better in some areas than in others. Although that may, in part, be due to the match funding that councils require, will the Minister advise what her Department can do to better promote it and to encourage councils to avail themselves of the fund?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am meeting councils’ chief executives to talk about that and other issues. I believe that it is not fair for groups in a local council area to lose out because some councils are reluctant to put up match funding to the Department’s offer. There are many, many activities happening in small towns, villages and big cities that some councils feel that they are not in a position to match fund. I think that those groups are done a disservice. So, I am encouraging better uptake from local government. I hope that we can come back in October or November to report on the monitoring of progress. That will be with a view to trying to get better uptake and to make sure that match funding is awarded, because local people will lose out if that does not happen.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

5. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure what is the annual cost and extent of the annual restocking of departmental waters. (AQO 2317/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Department stocks farmed brown trout and rainbow trout into approximately 30 public angling estate waters throughout the North. Those are produced at the Department’s fish farm located at Movanagher, near Kilrea. The waters are primarily reservoirs and lakes with minimal opportunity for fish to escape, which ensures that the farmed fish are isolated from wild fish stocks in feeder streams and rivers. From January to December 2011, over 91,000 brown trout and over 41,000 rainbow trout were stocked in DCAL waters. The total cost of stocking departmental waters during that period was almost £133,000.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for that update. Will she outline the economic and social benefits of angling to the North?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I suppose that goes back to Dominic Bradley’s question about making sure that the system for angling is much more straightforward and less complex. If that was done, there would be a better uptake than there is from people who are considered angling visitors. In a survey in 2005, it was established that over £3·5 million was put into the local economy from angling alone. The assumption is that the people who are involved will be looking for accommodation, transport and tourism. People are spending money in our towns, villages and shops. We need to go back to the 2005 survey so that we can try to upgrade that. There are certainly economic benefits to making sure that we promote the best possible angling tourism and potential for the North.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Will the Minister detail the level of fishing stock that has been lost in the past three years due to pollution ?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I do not have that information to hand, but I am happy to write to the Member. If there is anything specific that he wants to know, I can see him afterwards to give him that information.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

7. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure what actions she is taking to ensure that small and medium-sized enterprises are involved in the supply of goods and services for the World Police and Fire Games. (AQO 2319/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am keen to ensure that local small and medium enterprises are involved in a supply of goods and services to the 2013 World Police and Fire Games and that the games target and deliver real and tangible benefits to people living in areas of greatest objective need. I have made that clear to the World Police and Fire Games company on several occasions. The company recently distributed an expression of interest across a range of suppliers and service opportunities and engaged directly with almost 90 potential suppliers, who attended a related information session. The company should have a high level procurement plan in place at the end of this month.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

Does the Minister accept that the World Police and Fire Games can play an important role in boosting the economy? Does she agree that there are many small and medium-sized enterprises in Northern Ireland that can contribute to the overall success of the games?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Absolutely. That is why we have encouraged the World Police and Fire Games company, and, in fairness, it agrees with that, so it is not as if we are imposing something on it. The company also sees the potential and the benefits, particularly for small and medium enterprises across the North. To that end, it has been very proactive. As I said, almost 90 potential suppliers have been brought together in an information session to make people aware of potential opportunities that may arise as a result of the games.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for her answers so far. I declare an interest as a member of Belfast City Council. Does the Minister agree that it is important that, when the World Police and Fire Games leave the city of Belfast after the competition is concluded, there must be a dividend? Does she agree that there should be interaction and outreach by the World Police and Fire Games organisation to communities across the city, particularly deprived, hard-pressed, working-class areas? Is she working with Belfast City Council to ensure that that happens?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Belfast City Council won the bid. It is hosting the games and is part of the World Police and Fire Games company. I agree with the Member that it is really important. I have already met some of the services, and they are saying that they are leaving things such as gym equipment to deprived areas. We are also hoping to attract children, young people and others from surrounding areas to become volunteers as part of the games, so that they build up relationships with each other and build up skills, and, hopefully, get those skills and their volunteering accredited so that it helps towards their employability. With an opportunity such as this coming to Belfast, it is really important that the areas we represent are not on the outside looking in because that does nothing but cause resentment. However, I am confident that that will not happen.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Príomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her answers up to now. Will she elaborate on one of the earlier supplementary questions in respect of the economic benefits to the North from the World Police and Fire Games?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I love the way Members say “up to now” as if you are going to disappoint them. It is estimated that the economic benefit to us is around £21·7 million. The first estimation was around £15 million, so it has increased already, and I am hoping that it will increase again. Some 15,000 athletes and 10,000 visitors will come to Belfast next year. That is quite substantial. Almost £1·5 million has already been secured through bookings and accommodation. We are assuming that people will be staying in local hotels, eating out in local restaurants, going to local bars, hiring cars and visiting places not just in Belfast but elsewhere. Therefore, as far as the Executive are concerned, the games have the potential to further demonstrate our capacity for hosting and holding major events, which we hope will increase visitor numbers to our shores in the long term.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

8. asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure for her assessment of the impact that the intercultural arts strategy may have on ethnic minorities. (AQO 2320/11-15)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Arts Council launched its intercultural arts strategy in Parliament Buildings on 13 June. The strategy aims to meet the creative and social needs of ethnic communities through a set of strategic themes and objectives. Those themes include: intercultural engagement; developing the minority ethnic arts infrastructure; using the arts to develop community cohesion; using the arts to increase awareness of diversity; and developing programmes that use the arts to develop good relations and as a vehicle to tackle racism.

The Arts Council plans to invest an initial £300,000 of lottery funding over the next three years to promote cultural diversity, using the arts to help develop good relations, and, importantly, to help tackle racism and deliver a better future for everyone. I am confident that those measures will have a positive impact on the lives of ethnic communities living in the North.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her response. I must say that I was absolutely delighted to see this long overdue strategy materialise, as well as the funding stream to go along with it. I know that the work of local arts organisations in partnership with ethnic minority arts groups is important and valuable, but does the Minister agree that, through the strategy, the focus and the priority needs to be capacity building for ethnic minority groups?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

It is my understanding that this strategy is about just that. As well as supporting local artists, it is about supporting artists from minority ethnic communities, providing more long-term sustainability and creating new artists. That will ensure that there is a longer-lasting legacy for communities. We must make sure that we use the intercultural arts programme to enhance community relations, tackle racism and promote diversity. It is really important that it is used in a way that leaves a long-lasting legacy for communities.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Can she tell us whether the strategy has been shared with the Department of Education’s diversity service? Perhaps she could tell us something about how she intends to monitor and evaluate the delivery and outcomes of the intercultural arts strategy?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I cannot tell you that offhand, but I will get you the information. I know that there is a steering group under OFMDFM, and there is a consultation as well. I assume that the body that the Member referred to is on that steering group but, to be honest, I do not know, so I will get him that information.