Northern Ireland Assembly, 11 December 2012

267 contributions from 70 members. The official report.

Matter of the Day

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Mr David Ford has been given leave to make a statement on the attempted murder of a police officer in east Belfast, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise in their place and continue to do so. All Members called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject.

We are no longer talking about how many days the Union flag is flown on Belfast City Hall. We are now talking about the contest between democracy and the rule of law on the one hand and terrorism and fascism on the other hand. There can be no ifs, no buts and no qualifications in that debate. There must be an utterly united voice against that. I say to certain Members that if they condemn violence, they must say that they condemn violence without the "but such and such" statements. There can be no debate about the issue at all.

I am proud to be Minister of Justice in this place. I am proud of my party colleagues. I am proud of the women and men of the Police Service of Northern Ireland. I am proud of the courage, resilience and strength that both groups have shown in recent days. But it not just a matter for me as Minister of Justice, it is a matter for each of us in this House — for all Ministers and Members — to show absolute and unequivocal support for the rule of law and for democratic means only.

Last week, and indeed as it has for a period of weeks I believe, unionism metaphorically marched many of its supporters up the hill. There is a suggestion that, today, some of them will be physically marched up the hill.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is meant to be a debate about an attack on a police officer, not a party political statement.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. We are in a very volatile situation outside.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I ask all Members to be careful of the language that they use in this House so that they do not further fuel a very serious situation out there. I will allow the Member to finish. [Interruption.] Order.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. If Members have difficulty in accepting the context in which this violence occurred, we have real problems in this Building.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

You walked out of CSI.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Once again, I remind Members of their language in this House.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

On Radio Ulster this morning, the Chief Constable said that this was a time for measured reflection. That means that it is a time for each of us to accept the responsibilities that we bear in this place.

I wish to conclude by saying to you, Mr Speaker, with due respect to you and your office, that the question as to whether the Assembly Commission should sit in the charged atmosphere of today is one that is very serious.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I make this statement on behalf of the Democratic Unionist Party. From the outset, I make it clear that nobody should use an attack on a police officer to score political points, and I will not do that.

I want to make it clear that the attempted murder of the police officer yesterday evening was a despicable attack on the rule of law. It is something that the whole House should rightly unite on and condemn utterly. Yesterday, this party condemned — without reservation, without qualification, without vagueness — any violence associated with the decision of Belfast City Council. It is wrong and should stop.

Let me make it clear that those who carried out this attack are not loyalists. They are criminals and they should be treated as such. We will support the police in applying the full force of the law to bring those individuals to justice.

It is vital that those who continue to have protests do not go out on to the streets if they cannot guarantee that there will be no violence, no blocking of roads or disruption to people's lives. If that is the case, they should desist from that activity. Therefore, we support the Police Service and the rule of law, and we condemn utterly the despicable attack that took place yesterday.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. It is a day on which we need to at least try to speak with one voice. On behalf of Sinn Féin, I condemn the attempted murder of the policewoman along with the other attacks on a number of councillors and MLAs. Indeed, on the same night there was an attack on Cathy Rafferty, a Sinn Féin councillor, in her place of business in Armagh. I condemn all the attacks that have taken place throughout the week.

I welcome this morning's statement by the leader of the UUP, in which he pointed out that since it seems that these protests cannot happen in a peaceful way it was time to bring them to a conclusion. I hope that I have not misquoted him in that.

I have just listened to Paul Givan, who, I think, was saying the same thing about the protests. I agree with the First Minister that there has to be a right to peaceful protest, but we have gone beyond that this week.

I would argue for calm over Christmas and for people to pull back and allow for conversations, not just about flags but about the whole issue of equality and a shared future.

Ross Hussey (UUP, West Tyrone)

I will begin by declaring an interest as a member of the Policing Board and as a former part-time officer in both the PSNI and the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

My opening remarks will relate specifically to the attempted murder of a police officer. Nobody in this House can accept this in any way, shape or form. Who would bring a petrol bomb to a peaceful protest? I have spoken many times about the use of petrol bombs. They are not something that you just pick up on a side street. The people who did this went with murderous intent. They are not loyalists, because, to be a loyalist, you are loyal to the Crown. These people are not loyal to the Crown. They are not loyal to the flag. They are not loyal to the Union flag. They are nothing other than terrorists. That is what they are, and I condemn them for that. I condemn them unreservedly for that.

In the past few days, we have had threats against Members of this House, councillors and Members of Parliament. That is wrong. It is terrorism, and I condemn terrorism unreservedly. The Police Service of Northern Ireland is doing a wonderful job in the circumstances that it has to face. We are approaching Christmas, and we are supposed to be a Christian country. I ask anyone who is involving themselves in these acts of violence to look to their own hearts and to stop them immediately.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I rise on behalf of the SDLP and also as a member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.

Between 5.00 pm and 7.00 pm last night, there were 43 separate illegal roadblocks across our city. Four of those involved violence: violence against innocent motorists and working people trying to get home, to collect their children and to feed their families. They also involved violence against the police. Shortly before 8.00 pm last night, the back window of an unmarked police car was broken and a petrol bomb thrown through it while a serving female officer was in the vehicle. It was an act of murderous intent.

That act, like the roadblocks and like the violence, is the consequence of a failure of the politics of this House — a failure of the politics of this House and of this city. It is about time that people faced up to their failures. If they do not, and if they fail to step back from the brink that they are talking themselves onto, they will be coming here to condemn other terrible acts. This must be brought to an end. It is not enough to come in here in the morning and condemn and then go on the airwaves and continue to profile and single out colleagues and fellow elected representatives as the problem when, in fact, they are not. They are the architects of the new Northern Ireland. They are the people who go to work to serve all of us.

I keep saying that this House has a wonderful opportunity to build a new Northern Ireland and a shared society. Today, we are reminded how shared our society is. The census results tell us that this place belongs to nobody but its people, that its people are diverse, and that the PSNI is now representative of all of those people in a way that it never was. It serves them all. This has to end. It is time for political unionism to join the rest of us in demanding that we move beyond the politics of flags and the zero-sum equation of identity —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. As all sides of the House know, I allow some latitude in and around these issues. However, I really have to say this to Members: be careful of the language that is used in the House this morning.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I appreciate your guidance, Mr Speaker. I will conclude on this point. There is an attempt to bring the issue of flags to the House on this day. I ask you, sir, as our Speaker, and all of us, as representatives of this House, this simple question: is this the time to bring that matter to this House? Is that the message that you want to send out from this place?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Mr Allister — [Interruption.]

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

William Moffett voted for it.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Raymond McCreesh.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

Danny Kennedy did.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I will take points of order after we have dealt with this particular issue.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Last night's attack on the police vehicle was a wicked act of terrorism. There is no other way in which it can or should be described, nor are there any circumstances in which it can be excused or justified. I make that comment, in common with most people in this House, as someone who has never been a practitioner or a supporter of terrorism. Therefore, those of us in that category can make this condemnation with integrity and sincerity.

I regret that, this morning, the Alliance Party has sought to attack unionism and to politick over the Assembly Commission business. Nor do I feel inclined to take any lectures from those who lend their votes to glorify terrorism by naming parks after dead terrorists.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

The Green Party condemns outright the attack on the PSNI officer yesterday evening on the Upper Newtownards Road. I put on record the Green Party's thanks to the PSNI for the work that it is doing to protect democratically elected representatives and our communities in the midst of continuing violence.

I appeal to those who have protested to date, peacefully or otherwise. Your point has been made. For better or worse, we are discussing flags in this Chamber. There is nothing to be gained from further protests. I said yesterday that I had attended many protests, particularly as a supporter of trade unions, but — I apologise for having to say this to those peaceful protestors who feel that they still have a point to make — it is clear that these protests cannot continue peacefully. For that reason, they should not continue at all.

I further appeal to Members, particularly Government Ministers and party leaders, to be careful about their language, particularly on radio shows. That particularly applies to Ministers, who, ultimately, represent all the people of Northern Ireland. We should all be condemning this. Those are the only words that are needed. Sometimes, there is wisdom in saying less and doing more behind the scenes quietly to resolve these issues. There is a lot I could say about things that are said and done in this Chamber, but today is not the day for that. Today is the day to condemn the violence, to offer our support to the PSNI and to work quietly behind the scenes to bring the violence to an end.

David McClarty (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me the opportunity to add my voice of condemnation. As you have pointed out, Mr Speaker, what happens and what is said in this House may cause a reaction on the street. Like you, I ask for temperate language at all times in the House.

Like all right-thinking people, I am absolutely disgusted by the violence that has ensued. Last night's attempted murder of a female police officer who was merely carrying out her duty is to be condemned without reservation by all right-thinking people. The media refers to the individuals responsible as "loyalists". Like Mr Hussey, I have to ask this: loyal to what? Loyal to the Crown? Those people tried to murder a member of Her Majesty's police service, and they call themselves "loyalists"? I think we are going to have to change the definition of the word "loyalist".

I appeal to everybody to stop this vicious cycle of violence right away to allow those who are trying to resolve the issue by dialogue the time and space to do so. I appeal to those who are presently carrying out the violence to desist immediately, because their actions merely sully the flag that they claim to defend.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order, Members. That concludes this piece of business.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

On a point of order —

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

First of all, I will take the point of order from Mr Kennedy.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Could I ask you to review the coverage of the debate, particularly the exchange after the contribution from the Member for South Belfast Mr McDevitt? There was an exchange, from a largely sedentary position, between junior Minister Bell and members of the SDLP on the issue of the naming of McCreesh park by Newry and Mourne District Council, and, from a sedentary position, Mr Alban Maginness from the SDLP attempted to name me as having been in support of that decision. Clearly, the SDLP is now belatedly attempting to distance itself from that disgraceful and dreadful decision. That, of course, is a matter to be welcomed, but it is not right and it is not fair, and I ask you to investigate comments or suggestions that Mr Maginness has made involving me in the flawed decision of Newry and Mourne District Council.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I ask the Member to take his seat. It is a fairly lengthy point of order. Let me say this to the whole House: matters of the day should not be used to score points against other political parties, and, unfortunately, this morning, some Members have attempted to do that. [Interruption.] Order. I say to the Member: I will review Hansard and come back to the Member directly.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Mr Speaker, I ask you to review the decision not to permit me, as a Member of this House whose constituency office is in such close proximity to the attempted murder that happened last night, the opportunity to speak this morning and, perhaps, grant me that opportunity now.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Member will know that that is at the Chair's discretion and that I have widened out matters of the day. Under the old system for matters of the day, not everybody who has spoken this morning would have got in at all. Not all parties would have got in. However, when I was asked by political parties in this House to look at matters of the day, I did that, and I think that all parties will agree that, in matters of the day, all parties now at least have an opportunity to speak and make a contribution.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker, can you confirm that any individual Member is free to apply for a matter of the day?

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Yes. Matters of the day is very important, but it should not be abused by Members of this House. It certainly should not be used as another attack on another political party in the House.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker, I accept your ruling to my colleague Mr Lyttle. I do not want to make any other point other than simply to report the fact to the Assembly that there was another attack — a petrol bomb attack — on my constituency office in Bangor last night. Again, I am extremely grateful to the Police Service of Northern Ireland for intervening and stopping the attack from getting any worse. Given that that was an office of the Northern Ireland Assembly, it is important that I put that on record.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I remind Mr Lyttle and other Members that other Members of political parties wanted in this morning on the matter of the day. It was not only Mr Lyttle.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

[Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. The Member is coming very close to challenging the authority of the Chair.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

On a point of order, is it not the case that, when we have a matter of the day, each party that knows that it will speak will choose the most relevant people to speak? That is why we asked the Chairman of the Justice Committee to speak. Equally, the Alliance Party could have had the Member whose office is close by speak.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Would it be of assistance to the House if I or some other Member from the SDLP were to lodge a minute of Newry and Mourne District Council in relation to the matter that Mr Kennedy raised so that the House can judge for itself who partook in that decision? [Interruption.]

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

Let your leader condemn it.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. [Interruption.] Order.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

Let your leader condemn it.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

Covered yourselves in glory. Absolutely ridiculous.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. [Interruption.] Order. Let us move on.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

Disgraceful.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Mr Maginness has raised a point of order. Whatever issues the Member wants to put into the Library of this House, he can do so. That is not an issue. We are coming to the point where these are not points of order. Members are getting up using the disguise of points of order and are trying to make political statements. Let us move on.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

A gross embarrassment.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Let us move on.

Ministerial Statements

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

The Minister of Justice wishes to make a statement to the House.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. I ask Members to leave the Chamber in an orderly fashion.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

With permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement regarding a meeting under the auspices of the intergovernmental agreement (IGA) on co-operation on criminal justice matters held in Dublin on Friday 23 November.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

You are flogging very dead horses.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

You are flogging dead horses.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Order.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order. Order. This House is in session. The Minister of Justice is making a statement. [Interruption.] Order. Order.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

With permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement regarding a meeting under the auspices of the intergovernmental agreement on co-operation on criminal justice matters held in Dublin on Friday 23 November. The meeting was hosted by Alan Shatter TD, Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence, and I represented the Executive.

This was the sixth formal ministerial meeting under the IGA since the devolution of justice two and a half years ago. As I said in previous statements to the House, I am committed to keeping the Assembly informed of meetings held under the auspices of the agreement on the same basis as North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meetings.

The meeting on 23 November, among other things, provided us both with an opportunity to review progress against the 2012-13 joint work programme that we agreed at our meeting in May. It was pleasing to note the positive progress that has been made and the objectives that have either been met or are on target to be met. I previously shared a copy of the 2012-13 work programme with Members as part of the oral statement in June. One of the actions within the work programme is the organisation of a third annual joint public protection seminar. That seminar was held in Dublin on the same day as our meeting.

The theme of the seminar was “Partnership Working for Public Protection”, and it provided an opportunity for representatives of both probation services, alongside other agencies, to discuss a number of key public protection issues. These included a co-ordinated strategic response to dealing with crime; communication and joint working; and reducing offending in partnership. The seminar also saw the launch of volume 9 of the 'Irish Probation Journal', an extremely professional joint publication from the Probation Board for Northern Ireland (PBNI) and the Irish Probation Service.

Having addressed the previous two annual seminars, I was particularly pleased to join Alan Shatter in opening the third annual seminar. We have reached the midpoint of the timeline for the work programme, which is due to be completed by next summer. I intend to give a more detailed report on progress made against the actions in the work programme following the next intergovernmental agreement meeting. In the interim, progress against the remaining actions will continue to be monitored by the working group of officials.

Six project advisory groups provide the mechanism by which work is taken forward. They focus on public protection, registered offenders, youth justice, forensic science, support for victims of crime, and social diversity. Each of the project advisory groups has continued to promote and support co-operation across the broad spectrum of criminal justice agencies on both sides of the border. The public protection group, for example, has been involved in joint training and the implementation and delivery on the RESOLVE anger management programme.

Work is ongoing on evaluation research on the stable and acute 2007 tool, which is used for assessing the risk posed by certain offenders in both jurisdictions. The registered offenders group has progressed work in relation to information sharing pertaining to children at risk and domestic violence, while personnel exchanges between the PSNI and an Garda Síochána continue.

The victims group will focus on the victims EU directive at its next meeting in the new year.

The Irish forensic science service is assisting Forensic Science Northern Ireland with drugs analysis in a number of cases, partly to test mechanisms for the transfer of samples. The criminal justice and social diversity group proposes to hold a joint hate crime conference in 2013. The youth justice group is considering protocols between youth facilities and on cross-border supervision of young people. There is excellent ongoing co-operation on the management of sex offenders between the PSNI and an Garda Síochána at an operational level.

I am pleased to report that there continues to be good progress in supporting and promoting North/South co-operation to make Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland a safer place. The meeting was a good opportunity to be updated on the proposal to establish an ad hoc crime strategy group that would report to the working group of officials. Plans have been advanced to establish the group early in 2013.

The intergovernmental agreement provides a helpful framework for supporting North/South co-operation on criminal justice matters. They include the work being done in the areas of tackling organised crime and human trafficking. We are seeing the real benefits of co-operation as individuals in the criminal justice agencies have developed good working relationships with their respective counterparts. It is that type of practical co-operation that Alan Shatter and I are committed to promoting and supporting.

Finally, as I have said, the agreement is not intended to provide for discussion of cross-border security issues. However, I have cause to discuss such matters regularly with Mr Shatter, and I used the opportunity of our being together to briefly discuss some general wider cross-border security-related issues.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I note that the next meeting of the victims group will focus on the victims EU directive. Will the Minister provide more details of the specific issues that that group will discuss? If there are proposals for improvements, will they be included in the victims strategy that the Department is consulting on? As to the ongoing investigation into the murder of Prison Officer David Black, will the Minister advise the House whether there was any discussion about how the Garda Síochána is assisting the PSNI in trying to bring those who carried out that murder to justice?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Chair for his comments. I will deal with his second point first. On more than one occasion, I was assured by the Chief Constable that there was full co-operation from the Garda Síochána in all the assistance that was required in the investigation of the murder of David Black. It was not an issue that was discussed at ministerial level, but I have the assurance of the Chief Constable that there is co-operation at practical and operational levels.

The Chair rightly highlights the issue of the EU directive on the minimum standards of the rights, support and protection of victims. That will be the principal topic of the next meeting of the victims group. We have taken to the meeting the work that is being done on the implementation of the code of practice for victims of crime in Northern Ireland, and officials from DJE have brought their work on the Republic's charter for victims. It is a matter of seeing where work is being done in one jurisdiction that can assist officials in the other. That joining-up is beneficial to people on both sides of the border.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas sin. I thank the Minister for his statement. In relation to the management of sex offenders, he said that there was excellent ongoing co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda Síochána. Will he give more detail of what that entails?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr Lynch for that point. It is clearly the case that, with the management of sex offenders moving between one jurisdiction and another, there is a particular issue for this region compared with other parts of the United Kingdom. We are looking at how the requirement for sex offenders to notify their details to the police operates, at movement across the border and at the requirements in which notification is given to the other jurisdiction. Work has been led by the PSNI and the Garda Síochána to see that that information sharing is carried through successfully in a way that ensures the protection of people in both jurisdictions.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. My question follows on from the previous question about sex offenders and co-operation between the PSNI and the gardaí. At what level does that co-operation take place and how up to date is information sharing between the police and the gardaí?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

There appears to be a slight hint in what Mr Elliott said. I have no reason to believe that the information sharing and how the two police services manage it are not up to date. We are looking at the exact timescales for when notifications should occur. We have to acknowledge that there are those who cross the border daily, and, therefore, this is somewhat different from what would happen elsewhere. If Mr Elliott is hinting at a particular issue that is causing him concern, I will happily take it up.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I commend the progress made on cross-border co-operation on policing and justice matters. Given the rather limited aims currently, will the Minister consider, with his Southern counterpart, expanding the agenda on justice matters so that we can make incremental progress on these matters?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I appreciate Mr Maginness's point about the need to ensure that we get the maximum possible co-operation. I am not sure that my officials, who do a fair bit of work, would necessarily agree that the current work is limited. All six project advisory groups are working quite hard to ensure that we learn lessons from each other. However, I am certainly happy to look at any issues that any Member of the House — Mr Maginness or others — wishes to suggest should come within the remit of the IGA. We have to be careful that we do not step into the area of operational issues, whether for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Garda Síochána or the two probation services. However, if Members believe that there would be benefit in taking forward specific policy issues to better protect the people of Ireland, North and South, I am certainly happy to look at them, although my officials may not be quite so enthusiastic about the work.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. You told us about good co-operation on victims' issues. You will be aware that the Justice Committee did excellent work with regard to victims and witnesses of crime. Will you assure us that you will share that work with your Southern counterparts so that best practice on both sides of the border can become the norm for victims and witnesses?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I fear, Mr Speaker, that my colleague may have caught me out ever so slightly. I am not specifically sure whether the Justice Committee's report has been shared on a North/South basis, but I assure the House — the Chairman is grinning at me — that, if that is not already the case, it will be shared very rapidly.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome progress on cross-border policing and justice. Sadly, that was not always the case. The Minister mentioned the victims' group. Will he confirm to the House when the victims' strategy that he is working on will be finalised?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am afraid that I cannot give Mr Humphrey the timing at this stage. However, I can assure him that a lot of detailed work is being done in the Department. That follows on from the very good work done by the Committee, which itself built on work previously done in the Department. The strategy will be finished as quickly as possible to ensure that it is robust and meets the needs of victims and witnesses throughout Northern Ireland at the different levels at which the justice system engages with victims.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

As the Minister is aware, Lord Morrow — quite rightly, in my opinion — is bringing forward a private Member's Bill on human trafficking. As you know, he is proposing weaker legislation through a Bill. During his discussions with his Irish counterpart, was there any discussion of human trafficking? If, as we hope, we, quite rightly, strengthen the legislation on human trafficking and make Northern Ireland one of the most difficult places in Europe to carry out that vile trade, that may be negated somewhat if the Irish Republic has a more laissez-faire approach. What are the authorities in the Republic doing to deal with this horrible, nasty activity?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I have to disagree slightly with Mr Wells. I do not accept that what is being proposed by the Department of Justice is necessarily weaker than what is proposed in Lord Morrow's draft Bill. It is certainly different. I have had discussions with Lord Morrow, and we have exchanged letters on the precise detailed contents of the Bill and on whether some of what Lord Morrow suggests is actually required or is particularly beneficial. I am determined to see that we have the strongest possible legislation, and I entirely take Mr Wells's point that we need to ensure that legislation is robust in Northern Ireland and in the Republic, given the opportunities for people to cross the border. We all know that Northern Ireland is, sadly, a destination for the victims of trafficking, as well as a transit point in both directions. The continuing discussions that I have with Alan Shatter — human trafficking features at, I think, every IGA meeting and at meetings between our officials — will ensure that we get the best possible joined-up system. The two of us have also discussed trafficking across the North Channel with Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Cabinet Secretary for Justice.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire chomh maith as na freagraí. Thanks very much to the Minister, too. Can the Minister give us some indication of the extent of the work on information sharing and the like that has been progressed on the registered offenders' group?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I am happy to give Mr McGlone a limited progress report in the sense that the information-sharing agreement dealing with children at risk and domestic violence victims has been drafted and is being considered by legal advisers in both jurisdictions. It is a fair priority for the group, which is chaired by the PSNI and the Garda Síochána, and is being looked at quite seriously by them. I cannot give him a precise timing for when we expect that to come back from the legal advisers.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

My question is also about human trafficking and is not dissimilar to that from my colleague Jim Wells. Bearing in mind that the House has already passed unanimously the findings of the Group of Experts on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings (GRETA) report into human trafficking, can the Minister tell us today to what extent, if any, the GRETA report has featured in discussions that he has had with his Southern counterparts?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I think that the answer to that is that the specific issues of the GRETA report, which was a report on the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, and not a report on cross-border arrangements, have not featured in the discussions that I have had with Alan Shatter. I am not sure whether the GRETA report has featured in officials' discussions, but the important issue is that we get the best possible arrangements, North and South, and that we join up North and South and with England, Wales and Scotland.

Conall McDevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

The proposal to establish a National Crime Agency by the Westminster Government will undoubtedly have an impact on certain aspects of all-island policing. Has that matter been discussed with the Southern Minister? If so, are there specific issues of which he believes the House will need to be made aware?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank Mr McDevitt for that question. He will be aware that issues around the National Crime Agency have featured significantly in discussions and correspondence that I have had with the Home Secretary in recent times and that those issues will potentially be before the House in the near future. The potential implications of the National Crime Agency are as yet unclear, because it is unclear what the Home Office proposals will be for Northern Ireland. The issue has certainly been flagged in my discussions with Alan Shatter, and it may be that it will require more detailed consideration when we see the Home Office's final proposals.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Order, Members. That concludes questions on the statement.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Sorry. I apologise to the Member.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister tells us that the victims' group is next going to focus on the EU victims directive. Given that the prevailing definition of "victim" in the Northern Ireland legislation is incompatible with the definition in the EU directive, will the Minister be supportive of measures to bring our definition into line with that in the EU directive?

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

Mr Allister makes a certain assumption. I am not in a position to confirm whether that is the case, but I am determined to ensure that the EU directive is brought into force in this jurisdiction within the appropriate timescale.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I apologise again to the House for not being able to deliver the statement yesterday, and I appreciate the work of the Business Committee and Members in allowing me to make the statement today.

I make this statement to the Assembly today to advise Members on a range of salmon conservation measures that I am introducing to protect wild salmon in my Department’s jurisdiction.

Salmon conservation is a subject that has generated a great deal of attention and debate. I value the interest and contribution made by Members, the Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee and a wide range of stakeholders, including the Salmon and Inland Fisheries Forum, on the best approach to address the challenges in protecting wild salmon stocks.

My statement to the Assembly on 12 March this year set out the grounds for concern: international scientists have confirmed that wild Atlantic salmon are dying at sea in significant numbers; southern stocks, including some in North America and Europe, are threatened with extinction; my Department’s Bushmills salmon station shows a decline in salmon returning to the River Bush from around 30% prior to 1997 to less than 5% today; there is scientific evidence that salmon fishing off the north coast is bringing in fish from areas protected under the EC habitats directive; and other monitored rivers across the North have failed to achieve their conservation limits in most years since 2002. Continuing to authorise such exploitation is unsustainable and would be inconsistent with the Department’s obligations under the EC habitats directive and our commitments to the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organisation. That could lead to infraction fines being imposed by the EC.

Members will recall that, earlier this year, I called on all key stakeholders to commit to a range of voluntary measures to minimise the killing of salmon and to allow the Department to consult on measures to ensure the long-term sustainability of wild salmon stocks. I am pleased to report to the Assembly that there was a positive response by coastal netsmen, and they did not fish for salmon during the 2012 season. I am also pleased to report that most recreational anglers acted responsibly in adopting the voluntary catch-and-release policy during the 2012 season. Those measures have undoubtedly resulted in a significant reduction in the number of salmon being killed.

The Department’s public consultation on longer-term measures has now been completed. Over 370 responses were received. The views of individuals accounted for 90% of responses, while 10% were from organisations purporting to represent the views of some 17,000 individuals. The key message that emerged was that 83% of respondents supported a total cessation of commercial salmon fishing and a total of 74% supported the introduction of mandatory catch and release for recreational angling.

Since then, my officials have consulted on the outcome of the consultation, including with the CAL Committee, the Department’s advisory stakeholder group and the Salmon and Inland Fisheries Forum. Forum members, for the most part, supported a total cessation of commercial netting and the introduction of mandatory catch and release for rod-caught salmon. The forum also advised that it would welcome a review mechanism that would consider the possibility of allowing the taking of fish should stocks recover to an abundant level at some stage in the future.

I have given a great deal of thought to the views expressed by the various stakeholder interests. I have reflected on the international and local scientific advice and the position adopted by Inland Fisheries Ireland and the Loughs Agency in deciding on a way forward. I believe that the suite of new conservation measures that I am announcing today are appropriate, equitable, enforceable and essential to conserving and protecting wild salmon stocks in the future.

First, I will consider the commercial fishing of wild salmon. In doing so, I recognise that the continuation of commercial fishing for salmon is a complex and contentious issue. Fishermen have harvested salmon for hundreds of years off the north Antrim and County Down coasts. These traditional fisheries have made an important contribution to supporting livelihoods and the economy and are an integral part of the culture and heritage of our coastal communities and a way of life. It is important to acknowledge and preserve that heritage. Netsmen themselves recognise fully that steps must be taken to conserve stocks to ensure the long-term survival of the species. They have shown that commitment by not fishing in 2012. There is a need to achieve a balance between conservation and fishing that may allow for the sustainable harvesting of salmon in the future, should stock levels permit it. Therefore, I will introduce legislation to impose a mandatory cessation of all commercial wild salmon fisheries to take effect from the 2014 season. That will remain in place until such times as scientific evidence confirms that there is a sustainable surplus of fish over conservation limits over a number of years.

Secondly, I now wish to consider recreational fishing for wild salmon. In doing so, I recognise that recreational angling provides important economic and social benefits. However, it is important that our fisheries are managed in a sustainable way in order that we may continue to benefit for many years to come. The unrestricted exploitation of our fish is against the public interest. I am pleased to say that many recreational anglers understand that and have, in general, supported my call for voluntary catch and release during the 2012 season. I am also aware that a number of private fishery owners have introduced mandatory catch and release on key rivers in the North. I welcome their leadership and acknowledge that, for some, that has had an impact on their businesses, with fewer anglers opting to fish.

In considering the way forward for recreational fishing for wild salmon, we currently have scientific data available for six index rivers in the DCAL jurisdiction indicating that they are not meeting their conservation limits. It is essential that catch and release for rod-caught salmon continues. I believe that catch and release represents a win-win solution, maintaining social and economic benefits while ensuring the continuation of salmon, short of a full cessation of fishing. Therefore, I will introduce legislation to impose mandatory catch and release throughout the DCAL jurisdiction with effect from the 2014 season. Those measures will also remain in place until such times as scientific evidence confirms that there is a sustainable surplus of fish over conservation limits. I have also decided to limit the availability of salmon carcass tags to one per angler in the 2013 season, but I appeal to anglers to waive their rights to a tag in applying for their licence.

I will continue to impose catch and release in all DCAL public angling estate waters, and all salmon caught in those fisheries must be returned to the water unharmed. With the introduction of mandatory catch and release from the 2014 season, no carcass tags will be issued to anglers. In addition, I will introduce legislation to ban the sale of rod-caught salmon in the DCAL jurisdiction from 2013. Catch and release techniques do not, however, guarantee the survival of rod-caught salmon. Therefore, I will introduce legislation to improve survival rates for those salmon through the use of appropriate angling methods, equipment and techniques in accordance with internationally agreed best practice.

The consultation process also considered a range of temporal control measures — for example, a shorter season — to reduce exploitation. Scientific advice from the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) is that that would produce a differential impact across the DCAL area, impacting on some rivers and regions more heavily than others. Given that, I am therefore not proposing to adopt a single, DCAL-wide temporal control measure at this stage.

Such measures are in addition to our ongoing work to ensure the sustainability of our fish stocks. The conservation and protection of salmon stocks and their habitats are central to DCAL's work. The protection of wild fisheries remains a priority for my Department. We are currently engaged in a range of programmes to protect and conserve wild fisheries and their habitats and to fulfil our obligations under European Union directives and international commitments. My officials are also working with angling clubs on a number of projects to improve salmon habitats in selected rivers. We will continue that work. Furthermore, we have a robust enforcement strategy in place to protect fish stocks and prevent illegal fishing. We will further that work in tandem with new conservation policies. I will continue to commit departmental resources to fisheries with a focus on conservation, protection and enforcement in future.

The measures that I have outlined today will be implemented in a proactive and timely manner. My officials are drafting new subordinate regulations, in conjunction with the Departmental Solicitor's Office, that will involve amending or recasting at least four sets of existing regulations and introducing a further three. That is, by necessity, a complex and lengthy process, and it will include consulting the CAL Committee, commercial fishing and recreational angling interests and other stakeholders. Taking into account the necessary time frame to allow for that engagement, it is proposed that the new legislation should be in place in time for the 2014 season. In the interim, the voluntary conservation measures that applied in 2012 and proved effective will continue to be enhanced.

In summary, I propose a continuation and enhancement of the current conservation measures to protect wild salmon, including voluntary catch and release and no commercial netting in the 2013 season; the introduction of legislation for the cessation of commercial netting for wild salmon to take effect from 2014; the introduction of a ban on the sale of rod-caught salmon from 2013; and the introduction of legislation for the mandatory catch and release of wild salmon for recreational angling to take effect from 2014.

There is a groundswell of opinion among all stakeholders that measures need to be taken to support wild salmon stocks. The changes announced today positively respond to the challenges facing the future of salmon stocks. The approach aims to preserve fish stocks in a responsible, sustainable and equitable manner. That reflects my strong commitment to championing the issue. I am determined to continue to regulate fisheries and to conserve and enhance fish habitats to ensure that commercial and recreational fisheries are sustainable and deliver benefits to all.

I believe that the measures are fair, balanced, enforceable and essential in conserving and protecting wild salmon now and for future generations. This approach will position the North at the forefront of salmon conservation policy. To succeed, we will need the continued support of commercial netsmen and anglers working together to ensure that we achieve our shared objective.

I thank the Assembly for the opportunity to update Members on these important measures and will keep Members and the CAL Committee informed of progress.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I welcome the statement and thank your office, Mr Speaker, for allowing it to be heard today.

On Thursday, the Committee received a briefing on the proposals from the Minister's officials. Although the Committee was broadly supportive of the proposals to legislate on the issue, members expressed concerns about some aspects of the proposals. Those concerns included the timetable for implementing legislation, the enforcement of the proposals and, in particular, the voluntary buy-in from fishermen for next year. Will the Minister confirm whether she considers the timescale for implementing the legislation to be achievable? Will she clarify what measures her Department will take to engage with key stakeholders to ensure that there is better implementation of the proposals?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. Again, it is proposed that the legislation will be in place for autumn 2013, in time for the start of the 2014 season. It is essential that we, in fact, acknowledge and pay tribute to anglers, in particular, for their ongoing practice. Anglers were effectively practising catch and release for salmon well before we introduced the measure in the House in March this year. I acknowledge their contribution to salmon stocks and their ongoing support for the measure. It is crucial that we have the legislation in place for 2014. At this stage, I have no reason to believe that that will not be achieved — in fact, quite the opposite.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for a comprehensive report. Will she tell the House why the Department has decided to restrict anglers to one salmon carcass tag while giving them the option to waive their right to take a tag? Go raibh maith agat.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I suspect that that will be raised time and time again. As an angler, the Member will be aware that it is an offence to be in possession of a salmon carcass without the appropriate tag.

In previous years, anglers purchasing any game fishing licence were issued with up to 10 carcass tags at a time. It has been decided to restrict anglers to one carcass tag at a time for the 2013 season to support those voluntary conservation measures. Anglers will be issued with other carcass tags on request and on production of a completed log book indicating details of their catch.

I know, and I am sure that the Member knows, that many game anglers do not want to fish for salmon. They have stated that they do not wish to take tags because of that. However, the Department received legal advice that tags must be issued to prevent anglers from being prosecuted for the killing of a fish. The Department is giving anglers the option to waive their rights to salmon carcass tags, and the licence that will be issued for 2013 has been amended to allow that. Anglers will be aware of that when they apply for their 2013 licence.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

We welcome the Minister's statement and the general thrust on the way forward for the next two years and look forward to the legislation being in place. Will she assure the House that, as a small Department, she has the resource of a Bill team to draft the legislation and bring it forward? How will her legislation affect the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, which we operate under?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I also agree that it is a good news story. I thank Members for their patience for the statement being made today.

I will take the Member's last point first. The new bill will look at the Fisheries Act 1966 and possibly the 1972 European legislation. In answer to the Member's first question: I do have confidence. He is more than aware that the Department is small, but a Bill team will be put in place, and additional staff if required, because the legislation is a priority for the Department and for me.

I am confident that my current resources are appropriate to deliver the legislation for 2014. However, if additional staff are needed at any stage of the legislation being brought forward, I am committed to ensuring that those staff are provided.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis. Tá géarghá leis na miosúir chaomhnaithe a luaigh sí ar maidin.

I agree with the Minister that there is a need for the measures that she outlined. Since the origin of the problem is further out to sea, what is she doing with other north Atlantic nations to ensure that the problem is tackled not only at home but on an international basis?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I assure him that DCAL's commitments — indeed, obligations — to conserve salmon are shared with international best practice. DCAL's salmon management strategy is aligned and in keeping with the agreement that we reached with NASCO. The thrust and the core function is the conservation, management and exploitation of our fisheries and resources. As part of the management strategy, DCAL provides data from AFBI to comply with our commitments and obligations.

National and international conservation and best practice are crucial to ensuring that we as legislators and governments do everything that we can to protect wild species such as salmon.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I very much welcome the Minister's statement and the measures that she proposes. I congratulate her on taking on the role as a champion for the conservation of wild salmon. I hope that we have learned from the threat in Strangford lough when, because the modiolus was so damaged, it was almost too late.

Has the Minister had any discussion about, or made plans for, commercial fishermen? Will they be compensated? What measures will there be to help them and ease the problem of the ban?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The sequencing was that I would make the announcement today in the House following a discussion with the CAL Committee last week. Discussions with commercial netsmen are ongoing and will continue, particularly after today.

I repeat what I said in my statement: I am acutely aware of the heritage and value that netsmen and commercial fishermen and fisheries have passed down from one generation to another. I will do everything that I can to try to assist the process so that everyone is happy, but my obligation is to conserve wild Atlantic salmon. I have scientific evidence that proves that most salmon are taken from the sea, not just in our jurisdiction but in others where salmon are protected under the EU habitats directive. My officials and I already have in place arrangements to talk to salmon netsmen and commercial netsmen.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Under catch and release, up to 50% of salmon returned to the water do not survive. The Minister said in her statement that she would introduce legislation to improve the survival rates of those salmon. Does the Minister agree that every effort must be made to reduce the number of salmon that do not survive?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I agree with the Member, and it is not just about catch and release. It is equally important to look at fishing methods and the habitats of fish that survive. We are looking at options, particularly with anglers, and at the environments in which fishing takes place, to try to improve them. We are even looking at the methods of fishing to ensure that we do not put dead fish back into the water and, in fact, that we do not catch fish at all.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas sin. I thank the Minister for her statement. As a lifelong angler, I can say that the introduction of legislation for the conservation of wild Atlantic salmon is broadly welcomed in angling circles. For too many years, we have witnessed its decline. I would like the Minister to tease out further the methods that will be used to optimise the survival rates of salmon when they are caught and released back into rivers.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question, which follows on from the previous one. Fishing methods are really, really important. It is all very well me asking people to continue with a voluntary catch-and-release scheme, but I am, in addition, asking anglers to use only single, barbless hooks. I am reliably informed that barbed hooks can easily be converted to barbless — I really should not know this stuff, but I do — by pinching the barb with pliers. Treble hooks should not be used and can be removed from spinners and other lures and replaced with single, barbless hooks. Equally, it is important to recognise that, of all methods, fly fishing has caused the least harm to fish in the past. If a fish is caught by hook, it is easier to return it unharmed to the water if you use a single, barbless hook.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I want to develop Mr Bradley's question. A lot of resource has gone into work and research programmes in countries such as Scotland and Norway. Will the Minister and the Department take the opportunity to look at long-term measures in those other jurisdictions?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

In short, we absolutely will. Other jurisdictions have a very good conservation record, which it certainly would be foolish to ignore. We are working with other countries on the conservation of wild Atlantic salmon. Not only will we continue that work, but we would greatly welcome any information or advice that they can share with us in preparation for the legislation.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement and congratulate her on the distance that we have come in a year. I pay tribute to the organisations that have lobbied and done a lot of work towards what we have achieved so far. However, I am a little bit concerned. The Minister is refusing to look at introducing a temporal restriction across all the DCAL waters. Will she consider looking into local temporal restrictions, if necessary?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

To be totally honest, the answer is that I do not know. I congratulate the Member, who is a committed angler, on the work that he did with angling clubs to ensure that the consultation period was used to best effect. Introducing limits at this stage would place some anglers at a disadvantage to others. This is about trying to bring everybody along at the same time, not giving more people a leg up and holding other people back. I will ask my officials to investigate what the Member asked. At this stage, however, I am not sure.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

Like others, I very much welcome the Minister's statement. I recognise the good work that has happened over the past year or year and a half. Are the six index rivers six different river systems or are they individual rivers? I live on the Foyle system, and we have about four or five individual rivers. I am concerned that all of them could be affected.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. Unfortunately, the Foyle is in the jurisdiction of the Loughs Agency and Inland Fisheries Ireland. The rivers that we are responsible for are, among others, the Bush, Glendun, Shimna, Maine, Blackwater and Garvary. I share the Member's concern. This has been raised before, but when we talk about tourism, particularly around angling, there may be a perception that some are given more of an advantage than others, but I have the duty and obligation to look after only the rivers in the public angling estate.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for her statement. How does her Department propose to police and enforce the proposals that she has detailed today? What assessment has the Department made of the potential cost to the tourism industry in Northern Ireland as a result of the proposals?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

My Department's record on enforcement has been quite good. Indeed, it has been acknowledged in the House that fisheries and protection officers have unfortunately borne the brunt of physical and verbal abuse for using their enforcement powers.

I am not really too sure about the tourism issue. Protection, enforcement and tourism have always been done in partnership. It has to be acknowledged that anglers have been, and will continue to be, the guardians of the river. I am not taking that commitment for granted. All the potential for tourism and further opportunities to fish need to be explored, but we need to take these measures. Anglers, above all else, have been the most responsible and best protectors of our rivers. That needs to be acknowledged. My Department will not be found wanting in reaching its commitments and fulfilling its obligations.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Does the Minister want to ban angling altogether? She talked in her statement about "temporary" and a "period of time", but she does not state how long that period is to be. I acknowledge that enforcement around this is a very dangerous practice. I pay tribute to those who have been doing it, but enforcement is the issue. The Minister's Department needs to be up for it to ensure that those who have fished legally are not penalised and that those who are doing it illegally are brought to task.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am not for banning angling. This is about the conservation of wild Atlantic salmon. The Member, as a keen angler, will know that the stocks are depleted. The species is in danger of becoming extinct. It is not consistent to promote voluntary catch and release with a view to bringing in mandatory catch and release for the 2014 season without taking that into consideration. It is about the long-term sustainability and viability of the stocks, not about penalising anglers.

I acknowledge the last point that the Member made. The anglers who have fished legally have borne the brunt for people who have fished illegally. They are the people who feed information to and work with our Department and other agencies to ensure that illegal fishing on our rivers and shores stops. They have supported our enforcement officers, where possible, around safety issues and in areas where there has been an upsurge in or particular problem of illegal fishing.

Above all, I do not want to bring measures forward that look at conservation and ignore the fact that there is illegal fishing on our rivers. I am not doing that. Where appropriate, if additional enforcement resources are needed — they have not been required thus far — I will make sure that they are provided as well. That is because we must look at the overall conservation on the river and not just at one aspect while ignoring others; we have to look at the entire package. At this stage, we cannot ignore the scientific evidence in front of us, which concludes that the stocks are so endangered that we have to do something.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I, too, thank the Minister for her statement and welcome the restrictions, which will improve the hope for conservation of fishing for the future. She has banned commercial net fishing off the coast at north Antrim and County Down. What discussions has she had with others, and can she ensure us that others will be stopping net fishing on other parts? Her policy would seem strange if net fishing were to continue in other water systems.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. However, this has been raised before, and I have only the ability, obligation and indeed duty to place restrictions in areas for which I and my department are responsible. We will be meeting stakeholder groups to look at the issue that the Member raised. The evidence that I have is consistent with all the agencies and stakeholders being in favour of preserving wild Atlantic salmon. They are very committed to doing that and want to do everything in partnership with the Department and other bodies and agencies to ensure that that happens. As part of that, we will have ongoing discussions. Nevertheless, I hear what the Member says, and our Department can take action to fulfil my obligations in areas under my jurisdiction.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I certainly endorse the banning of commercial fishing of salmon off our coast because that is a win-win for salmon stocks. However, in circumstances where there is a high mortality rate with catch and release — perhaps the Minister can tell us her advice on the height of that mortality rate — is that the way to go? If we go down the road of mandatory catch and release, what will the impact be on our tourist industry? She said in answer to someone else that she was not really sure. Surely, before she comes to the House with a policy such as this, she needs to be sure whether there will be an impact on our tourist industry.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I do not know if the Member was in the House when I answered questions from William Irwin and Cathal Ó hOisín about the methods that anglers are using to ensure better mortality rates for wild Atlantic salmon. We looked at methods such as the use of hooks in the returning of fish, which will actually improve the survival of salmon.

I am not responsible for tourism per se. I am responsible for my part of the overall tourist product. The anglers and other stakeholders are also very keen to ensure that every step is taken to promote the use of rivers for angling as part of the overall tourist product. At the end of the day, however, we and I have an obligation and a duty to ensure the preservation of wild Atlantic salmon. I believe that these are positive measures and that, more than anyone, fishermen and anglers do their best to ensure the survival of wild Atlantic salmon through the present voluntary catch-and-release policy and will have no difficulty with its mandatory use. That was one of the things that consistently came up during the consultation this year.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

May I thank you personally, Mr Speaker, for your assistance and advice in respect of how to take this matter forward, and I thank those in the Assembly who have provided me with the time to make the statement this morning.

In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make this statement on the approved planning application for the Narrow Water bridge project. I am taking the somewhat exceptional step of coming to the House to explain, and to take questions about, a single planning application. I am doing so because the integrity of the planning process for the Narrow Water bridge, which has been called into question, is, in my very strong view, unassailable. I am also doing so because it has been reported in the media, particularly in the BBC, that there was "a political smell" around the planning application. As far as I am aware, no one has taken the opportunity to correct that. To use the words that a Minister of this Chamber used a couple of weeks ago, the application requires a "thorough" investigation.

Given that, the importance of the bridge proposal, and that the project is, as I speak, under very active consideration, I am making this statement to confirm the facts, to rebut that which is wrong and to ensure that a right planning decision will result in the right outcome for the people of Down and Louth.

So, let me address the facts. Louth County Council submitted a full application for a new single-carriageway, cable-stayed opening bridge across the Newry river at Narrow Water, Warrenpoint on 9 February 2012. That application was transboundary, and a separate application had been submitted to, and was subsequently approved in, the Republic of Ireland.

The proposal involves a new single-carriageway, cable-stayed opening bridge across the Newry river that will tie in to the existing A2 roundabout at Narrow Water, Warrenpoint. It will be an opening bridge that will allow tall ships, leisure craft and other marine vessels access to the Victoria Lock and the Albert Basin in Newry. The bridge will be a link between the Cooley peninsula area in County Louth and the Warrenpoint and Mourne area in County Down, with its main objective being to promote the socio-economic development of the area through improved community interaction and enhanced tourist amenity.

The application was accompanied by an environmental statement and was made the subject of article 31 procedure. All appropriate procedures were carried out. Most Members will know that article 31 cases are major planning applications that fall to be decided by the planning Minister personally. Having assessed the application and all the environmental information, having visited the site, familiar though I was with it, and having assessed comments from consultees, the council and the public, I was content that planning permission should be granted, subject to appropriate planning conditions. I am also satisfied that the application was processed in the correct manner and in line with departmental procedures.

One of the reasons why I am satisfied that the application was processed in the correct manner is because a Minister of this Executive raised with me a number of questions about the planning process in this case. My understanding of the planning file meant that I was able to address those questions definitively when that Minister raised them with me. I answered those questions on Friday 30 November, and I did so to ensure that there was no delay in the Department of Finance and Personnel's (DFP) consideration of the project. In doing so, however, I made it clear that I advised the relevant Minister that, in my judgement, his questions were outwith DFP's authority. Nonetheless, to move the project to a satisfactory conclusion, I answered those questions comprehensively.

The answers that I provided addressed questions on the timing of the application, consultees' advice and other issues. I have with me the note that I provided to the Minister concerned. I have to say that, having provided that information on Friday 30 November, it is unsatisfactory that another Minister failed to refer to those answers in a subsequent Assembly debate only four days later. What is the point of one Minister providing good advice to another only for it to be disregarded and not referred to in a subsequent debate that touched on the very issues on which questions had originally been asked? Indeed, in that Tuesday's Assembly debate, there was a complaint that:

"we have never had an article 31 planning application, with all the sensitivities that are involved in this one, dealt with so quickly." — [Official Report, Vol 80, No 2, p53, col 2].

That refers to the Narrow Water bridge application. I do not know precisely what sensitivities are referred to in that quotation, but I must presume that it refers to the matters raised with me by that Minister. If so, as I have outlined, I answered the questions. I did so on a Friday, yet, as I said, four days later, on the Tuesday, they were not referred to in a Ministerial reply to an Assembly motion.

Furthermore, in a contribution to that Tuesday Assembly debate on Narrow Water, the replying Minister stated:

"This was an article 31 planning application, so it was decided and signed off by the planning Minister. He may want to correct me on this, but we have never had an article 31 planning application, with all the sensitivities that are involved in this one, dealt with so quickly." — [Official Report, Vol 80, No 2, p53, col 2].

Let me repeat:

"we have never had an article 31 planning application, with all the sensitivities that are involved in this one, dealt with so quickly." — [Official Report, Vol 80, No 2, p53, col 2].

So what did I do? I requested a review of planning files to identify article 31 applications signed off by the planning Minister and dealt with quickly. The list is extensive: IKEA at Holywood Exchange; an industrial development at Carnbane in Newry; a shopping development in Northcott in Glengormley; a high school in County Down — that decision was taken in five months — and an INI business park in Strabane. So the evidence, contrary to the assertions made on the Floor of the Chamber, is that article 31 applications have been approved in six months or less and other non-article 31 applications, such as that for the Peace Bridge in Derry, have been also. I will save people's blushes by not identifying the Minister or Ministers who approved the aforementioned article 31 applications in six months or less.

As you are aware, the Executive made a commitment in the Programme for Government that, by 2015, 90% of large-scale investment decisions would be made within six months and applications with job creation potential would be given extra weight. The particular target for this year in respect of those large-scale investment decisions is 60%. I have made it clear to my planning officials that I expect that commitment to be achieved — indeed, I expect it to be surpassed.

I support the Executive's commitment in that regard. It will come as no surprise to hear that other Ministers, whom I will not name, do so also, so it is surprising that a commitment entered into and delivered on in one planning application — namely, Narrow Water — is then portrayed as being, “dealt with so quickly”. Rather than disparage and question the process and decision, it should be held up as an example of good practice, good performance and good planning. I hope that the House will agree.

It has further been contended that the Narrow Water application was dealt with by me as Minister and:

"was dealt with very shortly — and, indeed, it was signed off on the day that the Committee",

That is the SEUPB committee,

"met, which was 24 October 2012." — [Official Report, Vol 80, No 2, p54, col 2].

Again, that contention is incorrect. I made my intention to approve the application as an article 31 application on 12 October this year, and the notice to that effect was issued on 24 October. The comments made in the House by a Minister in response to the Narrow Water debate do not acknowledge that the decision was made in advance of 24 October, was announced in advance of 24 October and was publicly confirmed on 12 October. I believe in telling the full story, and conveying the full picture and the full details. Others should do likewise.

In any case, the date of submission of the Narrow Water Application — February 2012 — and the date of my decision do not tell the full story. As part of a healthy planning process, in significant applications, and particularly in the future as part of the planning Bill that I urgently wish to bring before the Assembly, pre-application discussions (PADs) will be embedded in the planning process. That PAD approach was part of the history of the application. By discussing the proposal in advance, the formal application process can be facilitated to a quicker conclusion. The PAD in this case began in June 2008, and there are records of meetings and PAD discussions held in the subsequent period in order to anticipate any planning issues that might arise once that planning application was submitted.

The Narrow Water project did not emerge like a bolt from the blue in February 2012. It has been nurtured over decades, discussed over years and decided over months. This is the full story of Narrow Water.

This was a good planning decision, made in good time and on good grounds. Every month, I sit down with my senior planners to interrogate all article 31 applications. For one or other particular applications, that happens weekly. It is worth commenting that the representations that were made on the article 31 application for Narrow Water were not of a scale compared with any article 31 retail application in any part of Northern Ireland, for those relating to Rose Energy or other applications.

In my judgement, the reason is self-evident. This proposal attracts cross-community and cross-border support. This planning application builds trade, tourism and relationships. Europe and Dublin want to support the application, and Belfast should support it.

It is hard to fathom why a few people want to impede its progress. Certainly, let us interrogate the evidence, if that is done on proper grounds. However, in doing so, we should not claim anything other than that the planning decision was robust, thorough, evidence-based and consistent with law, policy and good practice.

There is no smell around this process and decision. There are only the standards of good planning, good practice and good government.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I listened intently to what the Minister had to say. The more he speaks, the more he digs himself into a hole. Will he bring the same swiftness to all article 31 applications, some of which have been lying in his Department for 10 years? I know that he has not been there for 10 years, but he now has an opportunity to show how swift he is on all these applications.

There is a smell around this one. He may try to deny that, but it seems very strange that the application was lodged on 9 February, and the Minister has it all done and dusted within a couple of months. Is he now telling us today that, from this day forth, all article 31 applications will be dealt with as swiftly as he has dealt with this application? If he does that, he will go some distance towards allaying Members' concerns.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

It is a matter of regret that irregular and false words, in my view, have been used, and I want to tread cautiously here, Mr Speaker, so correct me if you think that I am going too far, because sometimes I can go too far. It is inappropriate to repeat an assertion that has been comprehensively, robustly and firmly rebutted in my statement and which does not reflect the content of that statement on this planning application.

Let me repeat: there is no political smell. This process was absolutely proper. The PAD was absolutely proper, as was the process from February until the decision later in the autumn. Any contention otherwise is unhelpful and inaccurate. I suggest that those who continue to use the language of there being a smell are digging a series of holes, looking for the deepest one and jumping into it.

I am under a Programme for Government commitment that, this year, 60% of new article 31 applications will be handled within six months and that, by 2015, 90% will be handled within six months. Those are challenging but realistic targets.

What will be the story of article 31 applications this year, Lord Morrow? Another two article 31 applications have been submitted since this one in February 2012. I did not get this decision over the line in six months; it took seven months. There were two subsequent article 31 applications in June 2012 for which I will try to live up to the six-month rule. I will achieve that before Christmas on one application and may do so on both. If that goes some way towards reassuring those who continue to harbour doubts, I am pleased to give that reassurance.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Cuirim fáilte roimh an ráiteas seo ón Aire. I welcome the Minister's statement, which very clearly outlines the timeline and the process. I was at the An Bord Pleanála hearing and can assure the House that it was very rigorous. From the Minister's statement, it is obvious that he, too, has carried out a rigorous process. Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to Warrenpoint, Burren and Rostrevor Chamber of Commerce, which has done so much?

I will put on record that I was on the programme that the Minister mentioned and did challenge the comments about a "political smell". Those were very unfortunate comments, and I accused the Minister in question — I will not name him either — of scaremongering.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat. The Member captures both the rigour of the process in the North and the rigour of the process in the South. If a Member asserts that there is a political smell about the planning application in the North, it follows, does it not, that they are making the same assertion about the planning application in the South? That is despite the fact that the applications were lodged on the same day by Louth County Council, as it is a transboundary matter. As the Member said, that would be a very unfortunate and, potentially, scaremongering assertion. In all other regards, I endorse the Member's comments.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

It is quite interesting that we meagre MLAs are being given a taste of Executive business on the Floor of the House. It is an interesting debate between Ministers.

The Minister made a point about the Executive commitment in the Programme for Government that 90% of large-scale decisions would be made within six months. Is the Minister aware of any allegations or suggestions, within the Department or outside, that planning officials put applicants under pressure to withdraw applications at some stages so that the Department's figures remained appropriate?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. This is not a matter of getting a taste of Executive business. It is a matter of a process that was true and robust being portrayed as something other than true and robust. This is not a spat between Executive Ministers. It is fundamentally about accountability, oversight and good process. This decision will fall fully on the right side of that argument, and I will try to ensure that other decisions of the planning system do so, too. Anybody who asserts otherwise is straying into narrow politics, when this should be about big ambitions and the hopes of the people of this island for trade, tourism and better relationships, which, in my view, are what Narrow Water symbolises.

I note what the Member said. There are reasons why an applicant may want to withdraw a planning application. It may be because, if they do not withdraw it, it will be refused. It may be because, if they withdraw it, they will be able to reapply without incurring the costs of a full application. So there are good reasons, which serve the interest of agents and applicants, why they may be advised that the wiser counsel is to withdraw.

If there is any assertion or evidence — I would welcome hearing evidence as opposed to assertions — that people's arms are being twisted, I would like to hear it. That would not be good practice, and I would not tolerate it. However, I think that it is right and proper for the planning system to give advice to agents, applicants and developers that the wiser counsel is to withdraw in advance of the resubmission of a different application.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I welcome the Minister's statement. The people of south Down and Louth believe that the decision was right. They believe that, as the Minister said, it is an example of good practice and good planning.

I welcome the pre-application discussions that took place between June 2008 and February 2012 and before the full application. I also welcome the fact that you state that you wish those pre-application discussions to be part of the planning Bill that you wish to bring before the Assembly. Given that, in my opinion and that of the people of south Down, the Narrow Water bridge project application is a fine example of how to come to a decision through the PAD process, how can anyone claim that the process was anything other than correct?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I welcome the Member's comments about the pre-application discussion. That should be the required practice for significant applications and for applications that may be of less significance. The more that you embed in the planning process the conversation between an applicant or developer and the local community that will be affected, adversely or otherwise, by a planning application, the better that the planning process will be and the more likely that it will be that an agreed outcome is reached. I want to see that in place as a matter of practice. However, if the Executive sign off on the planning Bill this Thursday, it will come to the Chamber in January. If passed into law, it will mean that, when it comes to significant planning applications, community consultation or the PAD process is a requirement. That will be a statutory requirement, not an add-on or an option, and that will only improve understanding of the planning process and achieve a better outcome.

The project will see the first cross-border bridge since partition built and provide opportunities for trade and tourism. It can deepen relations between Louth and Down, generally in the border area and on the island. Do we not need to deepen relationships and demonstrate that we can do so, given the turbulence of the past days? I am hoping that wiser counsel will prevail and that the authority of both the planning process and the SEUPB process will be recognised. If the bridge is realised and built by the end of 2015, it will show good authority to the Governments, North and South.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I would hate to see this project become a political football, with parties point-scoring over it. Given the events of last week, the public are looking to us to show leadership, promote community relations and promote our economy in order to create jobs. The project is a good one.

What steps is the Minister going to take to talk to the Minister of Finance and Personnel to try to address the issues and concerns that he expressed last week about the timing of the project and whether we can complete it in time so that we are not liable for its full cost? Those are the Minister of Finance and Personnel's real concerns. I would like to see the two Ministers working together and providing leadership for all of us rather than fighting over the project.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

First, I thank the Member for taking up the theme of my previous answer. When it comes to trade and jobs, tourism and jobs and relationship-building between Louth and Down, in the wider border area and on this island, the project covers all the bases. That is why, given that it has that scale and potential, I would like to think that all of us will get to the point of endorsing it.

There was no issue raised about the project until very late on. As far as I am aware, no issue was raised about the planning process or the SEUPB process until recently. It was a settled matter. Yes, the two Governments, North and South, on the far side of the SEUPB decision had to make their own judgements about whether they could contribute the relatively small sums of money needed to make the project happen, because liability for 25% of the funding for the project falls to the Dublin and Belfast Governments. Until very late on, there was no issue raised in the planning system or over the outcome of the SEUPB process.

It is for others to say why the matter has now attracted such attention and controversy. I have tried to provide good answers to questions raised by others to further settle the matter, to ease their concerns and to ensure that the project moves forward positively. Even though, in my view, questions that were asked were outwith the authority of another Minister, I, nonetheless, provided that information to communicate with that Minister and to see the project move forward. That is a sign of good faith and good intentions, and I would like others to show the same.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I congratulate the Minister on the businesslike way in which he has dealt with this application and other article 31 applications and thank him for fumigating some of the words that were spoken about the issue during the Assembly debate. I welcome, of course, the support of the Irish Government and the SEUPB for the project. Will the Minister join with me in urging our Executive to take this opportunity to bring the project forward without any delay so that we can realise the full benefits of it for the tourism industry, for trade and commerce and for the people of south Down and County Louth?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I agree with the sentiment of Mr Bradley's comments. The Executive, as with the Cabinet in Dublin, should get behind the project. It is my understanding — this may refer back to the question asked by Ms Lo — that it is not a requirement that all the moneys for the project that are drawn down from Europe have to be spent by April 2015. It is my understanding that moneys can be spent up to December 2015. We need to confirm that. Furthermore, it is my understanding that, at the end of December 2015, if, for example, 80% of the moneys had been drawn down and spent on the Narrow Water bridge but the bridge was not finished, Europe will not seek to reclaim the moneys. An impression may have been created that we were subject to some critical time frames in terms of April 2015 and the potential of the budget for that bridge falling to the two Governments North and South. It is my understanding that that may not be the case. I would welcome being corrected on that, but I assure Members that I checked and double-checked it in two places of authority in Europe.

I understand that, technically and in construction terms, the bridge can be built, and given the somewhat moderate contribution that has to come from the North, given that we still have three years to get the bridge completed and constructed and given the goodwill that is all around us in Europe and from European funding sources, I want to, as Mr Bradley indicated, see the matter satisfactorily concluded and want the Executive to endorse the proposal.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Maybe I should offer my services as an honest broker between the warring Environment Minister and the Finance Minister. Maybe not.

In the Minister's expeditious consideration of the matter, what consideration did he give to the impact on local fishermen? Although my constituency is far removed from the location, I ask that question by virtue of the fact that I have, nonetheless, received representations from fishermen, who are also politically probably outside my constituency, raising concerns about the impact on the mussel beds in the location, concerns about the fact that there are statutory rights pertaining to Carlingford lough being a tidal waterway and concerns that no one has given any thought to the impact on their practice and performance as fishermen in the area. Can he tell us anything about his consideration of that?

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member. The benefit of having a pre-application discussion is that you can scope out and identify any and all issues that might impact if planning approval is granted.

Therefore, I refer the Member in the first instance to the open file that exists on this matter, which scopes out all of the issues that are identified through the PAD discussions on the proposal. Because it is an open file, I refer the Member to all of the written responses from all of the in-house and external consultees, outlining all of the concerns and issues that might arise. Then, I refer the Member to the decision on the article 31 application, which outlines — save the Runkerry decision that was taken earlier this year — the range, extent and rigour of planning conditions that are required as a consequence of this approval going forward and in advance of the bridge being built or as a consequence of the bridge being built.

Be it the PAD, be it the consultation responses or be it the negative conditions and other conditions that are laid down in the approval itself, it is as extensive as I have come across among the article 31 applications that have been approved during my tenure in this office, save the Runkerry decision. The Runkerry decision and this one are very similar in that the environmental interest is asserted whatever its character. Consequently, this process and decision is exhaustive and covers the issues of water management, of when you can and cannot build, of navigation, of access to further into the Newry canal and of protecting all of the natural assets of that area, including the fishing interests and all of the concerns and bases that the Member raised.

Executive Committee Business

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

I beg to move

That the Inquiry into Historical Institutional Abuse Bill [NIA 7/11-15] do now pass.

When I addressed the House on 25 June at the beginning of the Second Stage of this Bill, I said that the story of the victims of institutional abuse had affected not only everyone in this Chamber but that it had gravely troubled the hearts of the people of this Province. We have heard many personal accounts of unspeakable torment. Children in institutions were in a particularly vulnerable position. They often had no one to turn to. They could not turn to anyone, and they had no one to trust but those who were entrusted for their care.

This is the bleak context that the inquiry into historical institutional abuse has been designed to both investigate and to address. We want to know fully what happened and what could have been done or should have been done to prevent it.

Importantly, it will conduct its work with an eye on the need to guard against future abuse, and it will make findings and recommendations about four specific matters.

First, on where institutions or the state failed in their duties towards children in care and whether these failings were systemic. Secondly, in respect of an apology. By that, I mean the nature of such an apology and by whom it should be made. Thirdly, in respect of whether there is a need for a memorial or a tribute to those who suffered, Lastly, in regard to any requirement or desirability for redress that might be provided by institutions or the Executive to meet the particular needs of victims.

The nature or level of any potential redress, whether it is financial or in the provision of services, is a matter that the Executive will discuss and agree once the inquiry has delivered its report and its findings.

The benefit of this legislation is that it puts the process of investigation and inquiry onto a firm statutory footing. The Bill enables and requires the chairperson to direct the inquiry's procedures and conduct in a fair and just manner, having regard also to the need to avoid any unnecessary cost to the public, witnesses or others. The inquiry also provides for an acknowledgement forum at which victims and survivors can speak in confidence about what happened to them. That is safeguarded by the provision of additional protection to the privacy of the forum's proceedings and the evidence that is disclosed to it.

As expected, the inquiry also includes an inquisitorial element in which the chairperson and his panel can examine evidence and question witnesses under oath. The Bill recognises that the public will have a legitimate interest in those proceedings and in the evidence examined. It requires the chairperson to take reasonable steps to ensure public access to this element of the inquiry. However, he may also issue orders to restrict access to its proceedings and evidence and to protect witnesses' identities.

We anticipate that most witnesses who are called to give evidence will do so willingly, but, where that is not the case, the Bill bestows on the chairperson powers to compel witnesses to appear before the inquiry and to compel evidence to be produced to it. It will be an offence to contravene a restriction order. It will also be an offence to deliberately alter or conceal evidence requested by the inquiry or which is likely to be of interest to it. The penalty will be a level-3 fine, £1,000, or six months' imprisonment or both.

The Executive, through the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM), will meet the inquiry's costs. With the Department's approval, the chairperson may make financial awards in respect of the legal or other expenses of particular witnesses. The Department will consult on rules setting out the conditions under which awards may be made.

When junior Minister Anderson and I came into office, the First and deputy First Minister asked us to make the historical institutional abuse inquiry one of our top priorities. I am pleased to say that progress has been rapid. The inquiry's terms of reference were announced on 31 May; on 12 June we introduced this Bill; and today, only five months later, it has reached its Final Stage.

While developing the inquiry, I had the privilege — and I mean the privilege — of working with victims and survivors. It was they who exposed the abuse and demanded an inquiry. Individual victims and survivors have also provided us with research information. They are using their own resources and networks to publicise the inquiry, and they are supporting others in registering with it. I take the opportunity to thank each and every one of them for their contribution and for the difference that they have been making to the task in which we have been engaged.

My profound thanks also go to Sir Anthony Hart. After a distinguished judicial career, Sir Anthony accepted the challenge of chairing and directing this inquiry. His wise and very practical advice has been of major help in strengthening the various facets of this Bill.

The political institutions in Northern Ireland have, sometimes, come under attack for an alleged slowness to enact legislation.

Lest anyone be in any doubt, I remind the House that the Bill has been drafted, agreed, introduced, scrutinised, amended and passed in just nine months. Work that began last Easter has concluded successfully as we approach Christmas. The speed of the process was due in no small part to the excellent co-operation that we received from a range of interested bodies. In particular, I thank the OFMDFM Committee for its diligent and insightful scrutiny. It consulted victims and survivors, expert organisations and the inquiry chairperson. It worked most productively and constructively with the Department, and the First Minister and deputy First Minister were pleased to accept all the Committee's proposals as amendments.

I am also grateful to Committee members for their significant contributions to Assembly debates. The Office of the Legislative Counsel, the Departmental Solicitor's Office and OFMDFM officials have done an outstanding job. I am grateful to them and to the Assembly staff who supported the Bill through the process. Crucially, the chairperson has a clear vision for the conduct of the inquiry, together with a well-structured plan. The acknowledgement forum is already up and running and began interviewing victims and survivors on 22 October. Enactment of the legislation today will give the chairperson the full range of powers that he needs to fulfil the terms of reference.

On behalf of the First Minister, the deputy First Minister and junior Minister McCann, I wish Sir Anthony and his team every success. Much of what came to light during the inquiry could be intensely distressing to those who hear of it or read it. However, it is the prayer of the Administration that the plight of the victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse will be addressed and that appropriate measures will be taken to ensure the guaranteed future safety of our children. As a society, we will learn from this. I hope that the inquiry will, in the fullness of time, achieve some sense of lasting closure for those who walk through its doors in the weeks and months ahead. I commend the Inquiry into Historical Institutional Abuse Bill to the House.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his words. The Committee is more than happy to see the Bill reach the Floor for the final time. I thank Committee members. We often hear in the House and elsewhere in Northern Ireland the fine phrase of a process being "victim centred". From my experience, we gave meaning to that phrase in Committee deliberations over the past weeks and months. I thank, in particular, the victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse who came forward. As a former victims' commissioner of the Troubles, I have some experience of how difficult it can be for victims to come into the public domain, tell their stories and make their calls and recommendations. On behalf of the Committee, I pay tribute to all those who came forward. On behalf of the Committee, I also thank the junior Ministers, the Department and Committee staff for their role in bringing this forward.

The Committee's input to the Bill ultimately came down to a question of trust. We could have slowed down the process and pushed and pushed again for assurances on the exact meaning of words and paragraphs in the Bill, but we wanted to make sure that our deliberations did not slow down the Bill to the point at which it went into the next calendar year. It was our determination that we would play our part in enabling the Bill to come before the House before Christmas recess, and we have achieved that, because here we are on this day.

Rather than push and push and push, we pushed and pushed and then decided to trust, because who on earth would want a process that abused the already abused? We achieved some major amendments, which the Minister referred to, but, before I mention those, on behalf of the Committee I thank Sir Anthony Hart and his inquiry team. Without breaking the confidence of papers that are to come before the Committee tomorrow, I can say that, last week, the Committee discussed a relatively small matter. When we made an enquiry, not only did we get an answer within the week but we got a fulsome report on that enquiry. The speed and detail of the attention that the inquiry team paid has been exemplary, and it should give us all hope and confidence that it is a sign of things to come for the victims and survivors who will engage with Sir Anthony and his team.

I do not propose to revisit the Bill's provisions in full detail. The Committee's position and thinking are set out in its report and were rehearsed at Consideration Stage. However, I will briefly note some of the key changes in the Bill, which the Committee welcomes and supports. The Bill and terms of reference for the inquiry have been amended so that the inquiry can investigate abuse that occurred as far back as 1922. It will not now exclude a number of the older victims, a significant and welcome improvement. I thank the Department for agreeing to that amendment. The Bill now provides for changes to the terms of reference to be made by way of an order subject to draft affirmative resolution of the Assembly. This provides an appropriate level of scrutiny by the Assembly and valuable reassurance to victims and their representatives. The change was welcomed by the Committee and by the Human Rights Commission.

The amended terms of reference for the inquiry are a key issue. Although the inquiry is into historical institutional abuse, there may still be lessons to be learned. One point on which the Department did not agree an amendment requested by the Committee was the inclusion in the terms of reference of a specific duty to make recommendations on changes to law, practice and procedure to prevent further abuse. However, most members were satisfied with the Minister's amendment to the terms of reference so that the inquiry, in making its findings and recommendations, will do so:

"Bearing in mind the need to guard against future abuse,"

The Committee sought and welcomed the clarity on the arrangements for publication, which have been inserted at clauses 11, 12 and 13. The Committee also welcomed the Department's reassurance that the inquiry's report would be published once it had been concluded and that Ministers had no intention of delaying publication or withholding parts.

The Department and the inquiry chairperson provided valuable reassurance on how the Bill would operate in a number of situations, one of which was that victims would be consulted about any proposed changes to the terms of reference under the normal principles governing consultation.

The Committee was also reassured to hear that the inquiry chair is agreeing a protocol on how the inquiry will work with the Police Service, where abuse coming to light could give rise to criminal liability or is the subject of police investigation.

Clause 12 provides for the payment of inquiry expenses by OFMDFM. The Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and Amnesty International raised concerns about the impact of that power on the independence of the inquiry. Specifically, Ministers can give notice to the inquiry chair if they believe that the inquiry is acting outside its terms of reference, in which case OFMDFM will not meet the costs of such activity. The Committee welcomed the Department's assurance that the withdrawal of funds would happen only in the highly unlikely event that the inquiry persisted in activities that were outwith the terms of reference. That reassurance was also welcomed by the Human Rights Commission.

As Chairperson of the Committee, I, once again, thank the victims and survivors and their representatives and all those who made submissions or gave evidence to the Committee during its scrutiny of the Bill. Throughout the process, it became increasingly clear that we had to recognise that it was incomplete, dealing as it does only with victims of institutional abuse. It does not deal with clerical or non-clerical abuse. I am increasingly nervous about using the example of Father Brendan Smyth, because I do not want anybody to think that abuse was perpetrated by only one person. However, the example serves well to say that victim A may have been abused by Brendan Smyth in an institution at twelve o'clock, and victim B may have been abused in his own house at two o'clock, but only victim A has recourse to Sir Anthony Hart and his inquiry. We are all aware of that, and the Committee has yet to form a view on the way forward on those not yet included, but we are committed to discussing this important issue with the Department going forward. We hope to do so in a timely manner and one that is appropriate to the needs of the victims who still seek a forum and a mechanism for redress.

On behalf of the Committee, I finish by wishing Sir Anthony Hart and his team Godspeed for victims and survivors.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I am very glad to say that we have arrived at this legislative stage. I take this opportunity to thank the Ministers and officials for co-operating very well with the Committee and with all the difficult questions and awkwardness that we sometimes presented them with. A number of people have done a lot of work to make sure that the legislation has got to this stage so quickly, and they all need to be thanked. However, I also want to make the point that this day would never have come about if it had not been for the victims and survivors of abuse in this country. Some of them are with us today, and all of us who have listened to them over the months and years know the hurt that they have gone through and the long, hard road that they have had to suffer. They have had to fight to get to this day. Today, they need to be proud of the work that they have done. We only facilitated that very hard work, and I think that they can be proud of what they have achieved.

We have all had discussions and debates at Committee Stage, and we are all happy with what we have arrived at. I had a number of amendments, some of which were accepted and some of which were not, but we have a Bill that is fit for purpose and of which we can be proud. We will have an inquiry that will be able to get to the truth. Hopefully it will be able to provide the answers and eventually the redress that the victims require.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair)

We have to say — this has already been alluded to — that a lot of people will not be served by the inquiry. It was right that we did it this way. This was the only way in which we could do it. We had to set up a specific inquiry for institutional abuse, but, in doing that, we need to be mindful of the fact that there are many people who will not be covered by the inquiry. The Chairman used a very obvious and good example of people who will not be served by it. We as a Committee, along with Members and Ministers, agree that we need to move urgently to begin to tackle the issue of clerical abuse. It is Ireland's greatest shame. It was a terrible horror that was inflicted on very many young people and children right across this island, and we need to do everything in our power to ensure that, on this side of the border, we address that very serious and shameful issue in our past. I hope that we can move as an Assembly to begin to deal with that process. It will not be an easy process; it will be a difficult one. However, with the focus now on the issue, we need to take the opportunity to move the agenda and begin the process of addressing clerical abuse.

We wish Sir Anthony Hart and the members of the inquiry all the very best, and we hope that they can arrive at a situation in which the vast majority of people can be happy with the outcome. We need to do everything in our power to ensure that all victims are aware that it is happening. I know that, sometimes, in our Stormont bubble, we think that everybody understands what goes on up here all of the time. We need to make sure that every victim understands that the inquiry is happening and the acknowledgement forum has begun and that they are offered the opportunity to be involved. Many people in many parts of the world have suffered as a result of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland. I hope that everything will be done to ensure that those people are offered an opportunity to come forward.

In conclusion, I thank the Ministers, the Department, everybody involved with the Committee, the people who came to give evidence and, especially, of course, the victims for getting us this far. I wish the inquiry all the very best, and I hope that the victims and survivors can finally get some sort of peace after many years of very difficult suffering. I hope that that will happen sooner, rather than later.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Obviously, I, too, rise to support the Bill. At its Final Stage, I want to take the opportunity to recognise the hard work of so many people that has gone into assisting us to reach this stage. In particular, the departmental officials and Committee Clerks were exemplary in the manner and timeliness with which they assisted the smooth and prompt passage of Committee Stage. I also pay tribute to the organisations that were involved, in particular the victims and survivors, from whom all of us learned a great deal when hearing their testimonies on this extremely difficult and challenging issue.

The Alliance Party has supported the Bill from the outset of the process. I am pleased that we have such a united voice in the Chamber today in support of the Bill. I repeat the comments that I made at Second Stage, when I put on record the Alliance Party's hope that the Bill would provide an opportunity for the voice of victims and survivors to be heard and that their need would be met after so many years of such unimaginable suffering. I am pleased that, further to the Committee Stage, the time frame of the inquiry was, indeed, widened to allow more victims to have their voice heard and the possibility of closure and redress. I hope that the inquiry's findings or recommendations will be considered in a timely manner and in a way that gives the opportunity for closure or redress to as many victims and survivors as possible.

I am also mindful of the concerns about the victims of clerical abuse. The Alliance Party is eager to see that measures are put in place to meet the needs of those victims. I hope that, now, the Bill can deliver a process and action for the victims and survivors of historical institutional child abuse, which are long overdue, and will provide proper mechanisms to avoid any future occurrence of such abuse. My party and I support the Bill.

Jonathan Bell (DUP, Strangford)

Can I, again, say a word of thanks to the victims and survivors? It is they who have experienced a level of horror that many of us can only think about, and we try to empathise with them. They came to us. It is their courage, tenacity and campaigning that has brought us to the stage where we have a Bill that will, within minutes, become law. We heard your accounts. We heard accounts of what can only be described as unspeakable torment. We know that, as children, you were placed in a very vulnerable position. We know that you had no one to turn to. We know that the people who should have been there, to whom you should have been able to commit your trust and who were entrusted with your care, we believe, failed you. But can I say this? You came to us and asked us for an inquiry, and we said that we would do our best. The First Minister and deputy First Minister gave an instruction to junior Minister McCann, junior Minister Anderson and me to prioritise this and get the Bill through.

We did that because we, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister understand the violence, brutality and humiliation that were meted out to children in institutions here. Those are the shocking realities that the inquiry is designed to address in order to guard against future abuse. Junior Minister McCann and I understand that victims were robbed of their dignity, self-respect and childhood.

I know that many victims and survivors were keen to see this come to a swift conclusion and an inquiry set up and started. I pay tribute to SAVIA and the many other groups of and individual victims and survivors who have brought us to this stage. I hope that you can look to the fact that, on 31 May, we announced the inquiry's terms of reference in the House; on 12 June, we introduced the Bill; and today, only five months later, the Bill has reached its Final Stage.

As I say, junior Minister McCann, junior Minister Anderson and I had the privilege of working with victims and survivors. It was you who exposed the abuse and demanded an inquiry. So, on behalf of junior Minister McCann, First Minister Peter Robinson and deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, I take the opportunity today to thank each and every one of those victims and survivors for their contribution, for the difference they have made and for their help in the success of this task in which we have been engaged. Thank you.

The Bill has been drafted, agreed, introduced, scrutinised and amended in just nine months. The work that began last Easter is, I am pleased to say, to become law imminently, before Christmas.

Mr Lyttle, Mr Eastwood and the Committee Chair raised important issues. I want to say that child abuse is child abuse is child abuse, no matter where it was committed. The reason we are looking at residential abuse is that those children had nowhere else to go and no other caregiver. That is why those specific parameters were set down. However, let me say that the issue of clerical abuse is no less important or emotive than institutional abuse. We are minded of the equally destructive impact that child abuse, clerical abuse or any other form of abuse from any other profession has on individuals. The Executive will have to give careful consideration to how that should be dealt with following the inquiry into historical institutional abuse.

The categories covered by the inquiry were selected because of the particularly vulnerable nature of those in residential care. Setting the parameters in that way does not in any way undermine the trauma that has been inflicted on many other individuals as a result of abuse in domestic and other settings. Anybody has the right to report any form of child abuse that they have suffered in the recent or distant past to the police and social services and to have a full investigation, and I encourage them to do that.

We understand that much will come to light in the inquiry that will be and can be intensely distressing to those who hear about it, read about it and learn of it. It is the Assembly and the Administration's prayer that the needs of victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse will be addressed and that appropriate measures will be taken, as they asked us to do, to ensure the future safety of our children.

I equally pay tribute to the victims and survivors who are not here but suffered. For many reasons they are not here. Those who have gone before — as the victims and survivors referred to them in many meetings — are not here to see this day and this Bill go into law. I hope that tribute will be paid to the work they did over many years to bring us to this point in a testimony to those who are not here to see this day, when an inquiry into the nature of historical institutional abuse will imminently go into law.

As a society, we hope to learn from the inquiry. We genuinely hope that the inquiry will, in the fullness of time, achieve some lasting sense of closure for those who will walk through its doors in the weeks and months that lie ahead. I commend the Inquiry into Historical Institutional Abuse Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the Inquiry into Historical Institutional Abuse Bill [NIA 7/11-15] do now pass.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I beg to move

That the Charities Bill [NIA 11/11-15] do now pass.

I again put on record my thanks to the Chair and members of the Social Development Committee for their timely and effective scrutiny of the Bill. It was important to move the matter on quickly, so I appreciate the efforts of the Committee, particularly given its full programme of scrutiny of other important primary legislation. I am pleased that the Bill has received support from Members across all parties and that the work of the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland has been widely and favourably recognised.

The primary purpose of the Bill is to amend the public benefit provision of the Charities Act (Northern Ireland) 2008. This is significant legislation that will enable the commission to consult on its draft public benefit guidance, to publish that guidance and begin the process of registering charities in Northern Ireland. Registration is a core and necessary part of the commission's work. Details of the charity register and the accounting and reporting information that will follow will be important public information. That will give the public and donors confidence in the work that charities do and provide assurance that charities are fit for purpose.

Local charities and their representative bodies have broadly welcomed the Bill and the prospect of regulation. Charities wish to see their valuable work acknowledged and to receive assurance that they are meeting their charitable purpose and providing public benefit. We have around 6,500 charities on what is called the "deemed list", charities that are registered with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs for tax purposes. The Charity Commission has estimated, however, that there may be up to 10,000 groups undertaking charitable activity in Northern Ireland. They will all be required to come forward for registration. It will be a phased process, starting in the autumn of 2013. The commission will work closely with the charitable sector to ensure that organisations have as much support as possible in complying with the legislative requirements.

Today is, undoubtedly, an important step forward in meeting the objective of having a well-regulated and vibrant charities sector in Northern Ireland. As we approach the Christmas period, we are all aware of the pressures faced by local charities in helping those most in need in our local communities. This legislation is about recognising that work and its intrinsic value to making this a better place to live. I commend the Charities Bill to the House.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for moving the Final Stage of the Charities Bill.

In accordance with Standing Order 33(1), the Bill was referred to the Committee for Social Development on completion of its Second Stage on 11 September 2012. The Committee received nine written submissions and took oral evidence from NICVA and the Charity Commission. The Committee heard from the Department on the provisions of and rationale for the Bill. At Consideration Stage, amendments were proposed, principally a new clause 3 relating to insolvency law. We were content to agree the new clause at that stage.

I will not rehearse what has been said at previous stages, but it is necessary to focus on the key aspect of the Bill and what it will mean for charities here. In short, the Bill corrects a deficiency in the Charities Act 2008, providing clarity on whether an institution is or is not a charity within the meaning of the Act. The legal uncertainty in the Act has meant that the Charity Commission has been unable to fulfil its obligation under the legislation because the public benefit requirement under the 2008 Act was not workable in practice. Therefore, the registration of charities here has been delayed. However, I have previously acknowledged that the Charity Commission has already established a deemed list of some 6,700 charities, on which it has been working closely with HMRC. The commission deserves credit for that.

The Bill clears up the legal uncertainty, which Members and stakeholders will welcome, thus providing the legislative framework so that all charities in the North will be required to prove that they meet one or more of the charitable purposes, are purely charitable and operate for the public benefit. The clarity provided by the amendment to section 3 of the Charities Act (NI) 2008 means that the Charity Commission for the North will be able to begin the process of registering charities here. As we look ahead, it is essential that the Charity Commission begins the work of consulting stakeholders on the public benefit requirement and brings its proposals forward as quickly as possible. However, the Committee recognises that that will not happen overnight. The Committee will work with the Charity Commission, the community and voluntary sector and the Department to offer advice and direction as best it can.

In closing, I thank the departmental officials, who have always been ready to assist the Committee in its deliberations, and the Committee staff. I thank colleagues on the Committee for their dedication in scrutinising the Bill, one of three that the Committee has been considering since October. The Committee has always sought to scrutinise legislation and policy in a constructive way, even though, on occasion, it may be contentious. It is fair to say that all Committee members have stakeholders and the wider community at heart when carrying out their scrutiny role. Hopefully, that is reflected not only during the process of scrutiny but in the final outcome. I commend the Bill to the House.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

It is with great pleasure and great surprise that I welcome the Final Stage of the Charities Bill. For the reasons outlined by the Minister and the Deputy Chair, I support the passage of the Bill.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I also concur with the remarks of the Minister, the Deputy Chair and fellow members of the Committee who are present. Having spoken in favour of the Bill at various stages, I will not repeat my comments. I support the passage of the Bill.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank Members for their contributions to the debate. I am grateful for the constructive input of Members in the progress of the Bill at all its stages and, moreover, for the high level of consensus that it has enjoyed.

I am committed to working with the Charity Commission to continue with the full implementation of the Charities Act (Northern Ireland) 2008. That will require further subordinate legislation as we move forward with accounting and reporting requirements. I encourage local charities to become fully engaged with the commission's consultation on its draft public benefit guidance. This is an opportunity to ensure that we have detailed guidance that fully reflects the nature of the charitable sector in Northern Ireland. I ask the Assembly to pass the Charities Bill and allow it to move forward to Royal Assent.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Members, I do not see a quorum.

Notice taken that 10 Members were not present.

House counted, and there being fewer than 10 Members present, the Deputy Speaker ordered the Division Bells to be rung.

Upon 10 Members being present —

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the Charities Bill [NIA 11/11-15] do now pass.

The sitting was suspended at 1.05 pm.

On resuming (Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Molloy] in the Chair) —

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Before we move to Question Time, I wish to inform the House that the Air Passenger Duty (Setting of Rate) Act (Northern Ireland) 2012 received Royal Assent today.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

1. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline how her Department is working with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation in the Irish Republic to address factors contributing to low economic growth. (AQO 3077/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Well done to the Member for getting into his place just in time.

My Department works with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation primarily in relation to the North/South body InterTradeIreland, which both Departments fund jointly. InterTradeIreland is responsible for developing North/South economic co-operation to the mutual benefit of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Biannual meetings on trade and business development take place through the North/South Ministerial Council. My officials from Invest Northern Ireland and the Department meet the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, and Enterprise Ireland, to develop a common understanding of the challenges facing businesses in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and to identify best practice and to discuss areas of mutual co-operation.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for that answer, in which she came directly to the point. Have any discussions, specifically on the challenges facing the economy in both parts of this island, offered up or compelled closer co-operation between her Department and its counterpart?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

We have very good relations with Minister Bruton. Indeed, we had a good conversation at the most recent North/South Ministerial Council meeting two weeks ago.

In relation to the challenges in front of us, he kindly offered, in relation to the Irish presidency of the EU, to invite us to issues that arose in which he was involved. We look forward to that engagement. In particular, InterTradeIreland has been able to work well in the whole area of government procurement across the border. Indeed, it has worked with a number of firms in Northern Ireland to try to assist them to gain work in the Republic of Ireland, and I have been pleased with the progress that has been made. We look forward to more progress in that area.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

Will the Minister detail why we continue to look to an economy that is going down the tubes rather than trying to do the good work that she is doing in respect of the economy here in Northern Ireland?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I understand the Member's question, but the Republic of Ireland is our nearest neighbour and, therefore, we should look at opportunities in that market, which is what we have been doing through the work at InterTrade. I noticed that some people were looking at the jobs created by InterTradeIreland. Of course, InterTradeIreland is not a jobs creation body; it is a trade body that does exactly what it says on the tin. If jobs are created, that is very good and we welcome that. In fact, we only recently asked InterTrade to monitor the number of jobs that result from some of the programmes that it carried through. We must make sure that there is no duplication, and Invest Northern Ireland will always be the primary jobs creation body in Northern Ireland.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

In her discussions with her Irish counterpart, did the Minister pick up on any other factors or actions that we should take on board and put to the Prime Minister to help us with corporation tax?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

No, because we know of the experience of a lower rate of corporation tax in the Republic of Ireland. It is one of the ways in which it has been able to attract high-profit firms, and that is one of the reasons why we believe that we need to have that competitive disadvantage dealt with through having the right to set the rate here in Northern Ireland. I very much welcome the fact that Her Majesty's Government have decided to lower again the national rate of corporation tax to 21% by 2015. However, we really need to look at the competitive disadvantage that we sit at with the Republic of Ireland in not only attracting inward investment but dealing with our indigenous companies. That is why we firmly believe that we need to set our own rate of corporation tax.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her answers to the question so far. Would it be possible to get an estimate of the potential opportunities for cross-border co-operation with the Republic of Ireland so that chances to grow our private sector can be created? Indeed, can I go further and ask whether anyone has made any estimation either of the possible upside to that or of what its full potential might be?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is the stock-in-trade of InterTradeIreland, and that is what it does day and daily. It has been looking at opportunities for Northern Ireland firms in the Republic of Ireland and, vice versa, at those for Republic of Ireland firms in Northern Ireland. It has held a number of seminars across the whole island, including some in Northern Ireland. We want to see it being more proactive on the ground, particularly where small and medium-sized companies are concerned. For many of those small and medium-sized companies, their first market is their closest, and we very much want to see InterTradeIreland working with them.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Question 9 has been withdrawn and requires a written answer. Raymond McCartney is not in his place for question 2; and Sue Ramsey is not in her place for question 3.

Corporation Tax: Joint Ministerial Working Group

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

4. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of the outcome of the joint ministerial working group on 18 October 2012 with regard to the decision on devolution of corporation tax. (AQO 3080/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The UK Government have a clear ambition to create a competitive corporate tax regime, and, since taking up office, they have reduced the headline rate from 28%. We, too, have prioritised a competitive business environment, and through the joint ministerial working group we have consistently pressed for the devolution of corporation tax powers.

That group's work has now concluded, and good progress has been made on many issues associated with devolving corporation tax. For example, we now know what a devolved corporate tax regime would look like, even though many were initially sceptical that such a system could be developed at all. The report is now with the Prime Minister, and we are seeking a meeting and a further opportunity to press our case. We will again emphasise the need for early decisions so that we can provide clarity and certainty to local businesses and inward investors.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Can the Minister tell us what type of response, either formal or informal, she got from conversations with the Prime Minister when he was last here?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As I indicated, I think that his attitude to corporate tax was put forward again in the autumn statement. He believes that a lower rate of corporation tax right across the UK would benefit the UK economy. So, if you asked me what I believe his feeling on a lower rate of corporation tax in Northern Ireland is, I would say that he is probably quite sympathetic to it. However, he will have to take in other considerations, and we all know what those are. I think that we need to press him again and say to him why we believe we need this in our toolbox. I have spoken to the business community recently to tell it that it also needs to press that home to him. We will certainly continue to do that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Given the uncertainty in the business community, can the Minister give an indication of when a decision on the issue may be forthcoming from the Prime Minister? Is there any action to be taken in the interim period?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. If it were up to me, the decision would be made immediately, but it will, of course, be a matter for the Prime Minister. The joint ministerial working group has completed its work, and the paper was passed to the Prime Minister's office on 16 November, so it is with him now. As I said, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister have sought a meeting with the Prime Minister to push home again the importance of this issue for the Northern Ireland economy. I have said to the business community that I very much hope that it will come in on the back of that, as, indeed, I am sure that it will. As you rightly said, we need to bring clarity and certainty to the issue, and we need to deal with it once and for all, because the continuing uncertainty is very unhelpful.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Is the Minister concerned that the forthcoming Scottish referendum is causing a delay in the decision?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member quite rightly pointed to the elephant in the room in this whole issue, which is Scottish independence. We have been very clear that we believe that that should not be a factor in devolving corporation tax. That is because we are saying that, as a devolved region, we want to contribute to the Westminster coffers instead of always looking for a subvention from them. Therefore, in actual fact, this is devolution working for the United Kingdom, whereas the Scottish Government of the Scottish National Party want to break away from Westminster. What we want to do is be an integral part of the United Kingdom and make sure that we pay our way, and the way to do that is through the use of corporation tax.

Jonathan Craig (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Will the Minister outline what the possible benefits to Northern Ireland would be of the announced reduction in the corporation tax rate in the autumn statement?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The coalition Government, and the Conservative Party in particular, want to have a lower tax regime. They have recognised the use of a lower rate of corporation tax to try to stimulate the economy. As I said, they are going to reduce the rate to 21%, it having been as high as 28% in 2010. I think that the Government are inherently sympathetic to our argument about using a lower rate of corporation tax to try to stimulate the Northern Ireland economy. We now just need to push that case even more with the Prime Minister.

Tourism: GB Visitors

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

5. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of the number of visitors from Great Britain in 2012. (AQO 3081/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Latest estimates indicate that we have welcomed over 650,000 visitors from Great Britain in the first nine months of 2012. The estimates are provisional and will be revised when full end-year figures are available. The GB market is our largest tourist market, and we know that, given the very challenging economic conditions, many GB residents are opting to stay at home. Over the past five years, the overall outbound market from GB has declined by 18·3%. In addition, the UK experienced its second-wettest summer on record since 1912, which encouraged those who are travelling to seek out sunnier climates.

However, I am pleased that the industry sentiment is extremely positive, and it is encouraging to see an increase in occupancy rates across accommodation providers, with room occupancy in hotels increasing by 11% this year to date. By the end of the 2012 cruise season, Belfast will have welcomed 45 cruise ships, bringing over 80,000 passengers and crew, with a further eight ships visiting Londonderry. Titanic Belfast smashed its visitor targets so far this year, with 621,000 people passing through its doors. The new Giant’s Causeway visitor centre has already welcomed over 300,000 visitors. The Irish Open was a phenomenal success and the first European Tour event to sell out. Therefore, there is much to celebrate, although we recognise the challenges ahead.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for her answer. She will be aware that the number of visitors from GB was down 15%, according to the most recent statistics. It has been most disappointing that we were not able to capitalise more on the Olympics. What does the Minister put that particular issue down to?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

First, as the Member should know, because she put out a statement at the time, those are provisional estimates, and we do not have the figures for domestic tourism or, indeed, for the tourists that come up from the Republic of Ireland. I am very happy to take the Member's question when I have full tourism statistics.

Work is under way with NISRA and the Central Statistics Office in Dublin to improve our surveys and ensure that we have a robust system in place to measure visitor numbers to Northern Ireland. I am now asking my officials to review tourism statistics and how they are communicated so that, when they are communicated, they are not provisional figures but full statistics that we can all talk about with some confidence and some knowledge.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answers. She will share everyone's disappointment that the figures are down. Although the Minister may try to blame Tourism Ireland, and Tourism Ireland may try to blame the weather, there are a number of factors involved.

Will the Minister agree with me about promoting the island of Ireland as a single tourist destination, where visitors can go to the Ring of Kerry, the Giant's Causeway, the Fermanagh lakelands and the cliffs of Moher in one single trip, instead of trying to promote different markets on one island?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member needs to look at the markets. We had a piece of work carried out, not just by the Northern Ireland Tourist Board or Tourism Ireland but by Fáilte Ireland and a number of industry providers called the Tourism Recovery Task Force. They did a piece of work specifically on the Great Britain market, and what they are essentially saying is that what we have been doing to date is not producing the results that we need to produce. There needs to be a Northern Ireland-specific campaign in Great Britain. That work is not for me but for the tourism recovery task force.

If the Member wants to look at objective statistics and reports, that is the objective report that he should look at. I am very pleased that the tourism recovery task force has plotted a way forward, which is being taken forward by Tourism Ireland and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. We look forward to monitoring how that campaign works over the coming years.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her answers so far. I do not disagree with anything that she says. However, given that Ireland and Britain healed the wounds of the past in a very public way last year, does she not agree that we should maximise every opportunity, including "The Gathering", which is forthcoming, to ensure that visitors coming from Britain visit Northern Ireland as well?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is precisely what we will be doing with our campaign for the UK City of Culture. It is a UK City of Culture, so we are inviting the rest of the UK to come to Northern Ireland to celebrate the very first UK City of Culture. We are having the World Police and Fire Games here for the very first time, and that will be a tremendous celebration.

Members should also remember that the G8 summit is coming to County Fermanagh because we are part of the United Kingdom. It is because we are a part of the United Kingdom that we are able to host the G8 summit.

Business: South Antrim

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

6. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment how many businesses in the South Antrim constituency have received financial support in 2012. (AQO 3082/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Between 1 January and 31 October 2012, Invest Northern Ireland approved 227 offers of support to 120 different businesses located in the South Antrim parliamentary constituency area.

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. I know that she appreciates just how difficult it is for businesses in the current economic climate. Will she outline what Invest NI's activity levels are like in South Antrim at present?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Assistance worth £4·33 million has been offered to 227 projects undertaken by 120 businesses. Those projects plan to invest £15·77 million in the local economy. I am pleased to tell the Member that, in South Antrim, there are currently 24 jobs fund business investment projects at various stages of development, which should lead to the creation of 130 new jobs, 38 of which have already been created.

The jobs fund work continues, sometimes very quietly in the background, across Northern Ireland. I do not have the figures for each constituency with me, but if Members wish to see those figures I will be happy to give them out. The jobs fund does its work, sometimes with very small companies or with small numbers, but, as I have said on many occasions, if each small company was able to take one or two extra people on, we would be able to deal with the issues that are in front of us today.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I remind Members that supplementary questions should be specifically about South Antrim.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I appreciate that the Minister's response deals with South Antrim. However, in the wider picture, we could all argue the same sort of thing.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Supplementary questions should be specific to South Antrim.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

Does the Minister have a strategic plan that will encompass South Antrim and the other constituencies to try to identify those most in need? [Laughter.]

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Yes. The Member is well aware of that plan. It is called the economic strategy.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her answers up to now. Will she outline proposals for the next round of European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) moneys and how those will assist small businesses in the North?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Small businesses remain very much our focus when we look at European funding. I have been particularly pleased with the way in which councils have used ERDF moneys for their local economic development. Indeed, in the East Antrim area, for example, six councils have come together to provide a suite of support which has been achieved through the use of ERDF moneys.

Obviously, we will look at the new programmes once they are available to see where the priorities lie and where we can fit into them. In particular, we want to use the Horizon 2020 research and development fund, and we want more small and medium-sized enterprises to use those funds going forward. We will concentrate very heavily on that.

Telecommunications: Dervock

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

7. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what steps are being taken to improve the telecoms infrastructure in rural areas such as Dervock in the North Antrim constituency. (AQO 3083/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Building on previous investments of around £45 million over the past four years, which have sought to improve broadband services across Northern Ireland and which included North Antrim, my Department is scoping two projects aimed at further enhancing the region's telecommunications capabilities.

The first of those is aimed at ensuring access to broadband services of at least 2 megabits per second to all premises and superfast broadband services of 24 megabits per second to 90% of premises by 2015. Postcode areas across North Antrim, including Dervock, have been identified as forming part of the intervention area for the project. The second project is aimed at improving access to 3G mobile services across Northern Ireland while preparing a platform for the delivery of 4G mobile services.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. I also thank her for her continued interest in this area of work. I welcome, in particular, the inclusion of Ballintoy in her Department's broadband content initiative, which I trust will yield some valuable outcomes. I also welcome the fact that the exchange in Dervock has now been enabled with the systems that have been introduced.

Will the Minister assure the House that she will continue to emphasise to mobile operators the importance of their ensuring that there is delivery of service? We still have a problem in the village, particularly with mobile access. The service is still not of a standard that is in any way acceptable.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. I have had the opportunity to raise the general issue of mobile coverage with mobile operators. I met them recently to talk about their respective investment plans. On 26 November, I met Vodafone representatives, who wanted to discuss with me their planned upgrades for 2G and 3G networks in a collaborative initiative with O2. Just last week, on 5 December, I met representatives from Everything Everywhere — EE, as it now prefers to be called — to discuss the introduction of 4G networks and future investment plans for Northern Ireland.

We will keep speaking to mobile operators. For us to understand what we can do by way of intervention, we need to know the areas that they will not be able to accommodate. I told both those operators that I really need to know about their investment plans. That may be difficult for them given that they are commercial companies. However, if we are to step in and help where there are gaps, we need to know where they intend to make investments over the next while. I was encouraged by the meetings with the mobile operators. We will keep speaking to them about what they can deliver across Northern Ireland; that is the key point.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I will also express the frustration of constituents, particularly in the Dervock and Benvarden areas, where there is woeful mobile coverage. The Minister said that she met the mobile providers. Has she got any comfort from them? I must say that, having written to them all as a public representative, the sort of correspondence that one gets back is quite dismissive of the problem. Has the Minister, with her status, been able to extract anything more comforting and any real promise of progress for people in that area?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The mobile operators have been able to share with me maps of their coverage after they had put additional investment in place. They hope to have that investment in place by the start of the first quarter of next year, so it will be in and around April or May. Those maps certainly look very impressive. The Member will probably agree with me when I say that it is unfortunate that we do not have a regional target for Northern Ireland for 2G and 3G. That has always been the difficulty for us. However, I am pleased that we have a regional target set for 4G. That will drive the mobile operators to do more for that service.

I made the point to them that I hope that, if they are upgrading 2G and 3G, they look to their commitments for 4G and put in a proper infrastructure to be able to deliver that as well, because it is coming down the road. As you probably heard on the radio this morning, the spectrum auction for 4G starts today. I very much look forward to the day when we have 4G across Northern Ireland.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. The Minister has stated on a number of occasions in the Chamber that every household and business can access broadband through satellite. Given that that is very expensive in many cases, what efforts is the Minister making to ensure that these alternative technologies are more affordable, particularly for rural people?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Again, that is a difficult area, because these are commercial companies, and we intervene and give them a subvention to try to get them to deliver to more rural areas. I am quite happy to meet the Member, listen to his specific concerns about the cost of access and raise them with the companies directly. We fund these companies to deliver satellite services where we cannot provide a fixed fibre service. If they are pricing themselves out of the market, we should have a conversation about that.

Construction: Redundancies

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

8. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, given the recent redundancies in the construction sector, what discussions she has had with affected contractors. (AQO 3084/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

While I was on a trade mission to China, my officials met a number of Patton Group subcontractors at Stormont on Monday 12 November 2012. Today, along with Mr McKay, I also had the opportunity to meet a number of the subcontractors affected by the Patton Group going into administration. It is not possible to provide grant assistance to these contractors, but, at short notice, Invest NI organised advisory clinics on 15, 16, 21 and 22 November 2012 and offered more detailed follow-up consultations. Advice and guidance are also available from Invest NI through the business support team and at www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Minister, when will your departmental officials take serious account of the cascade effect from primary redundancies and business closures? It seems very unfair that you cannot deal with subcontractors affected in that way.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

This very morning, I had a discussion about that with Mr McKay and the representatives of the three subcontractors whom he brought to see me. There is also an onus on the industry, and there was a good discussion today about the fact that subcontractors' interests are not represented by any particular group or body. When times are good, they have a very flexible arrangement with the main contractors. However, when times are bad, there is no protection for them. Is there a gap that the Assembly or an all-party working group on construction needs to look at? I am sure that the matter will be taken up.

I do not accept the Member's comment about not doing anything. We have gone out to individual companies to try to assess their specific difficulties. If there is a good pipeline of work and they are just dealing with cash-flow difficulties, we can intervene with a buying time loan. That is not a grant; it is a loan that we can put in place.

I am also encouraged by the fact that, last week, representatives of a company called Copious Resources came to see me. The company is based in Glengormley and recruits staff for the offshore energy industry. They told me that construction skills are transferable to the oil, gas and renewables sectors. I await a proposal from the company, and I very much welcome the fact that it came forward.

So there is a lot going on. Sometimes, work goes on in the background, and I welcome the opportunity to clarify that to the House.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I do not anticipate the Minister having a ready answer to this question because it is quite complex. It concerns a subcontractor or supplier being involved with a main contractor who is in financial difficulties, as is the case with the Patton Group. If the main contractor was involved in a major, or maybe not so major, public work scheme and made a commitment to the subcontractor, will the Minister ensure that payment to the subcontractor is fulfilled by another Department? Basically, I am asking the Minister to discuss the issue with other Departments to make sure that, when a main contractor gives a commitment to a subcontractor, who complies and orders materials, payment for those materials is fulfilled.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am sorry if I am wrong, but I understood that the Finance Minister had brought forward legislation to deal with the very issue of payment to subcontractors. However, if I am wrong about that, I will clarify that. I am certainly happy to talk to the Finance Minister about those issues because I listened to the subcontractors say today that they do not have any protection, and that is maybe an issue for the all-party working group. I am happy to come along and have that discussion because, when times are good, it is fine and flexible and people can move about and all the rest of it, but, when times are tough, those people do not have any protection under the law. That has been pointed out on many occasions.

Francie Molloy (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Questions 5 and 10 have been withdrawn and require written answers.

Planning: Rural Homes

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

1. asked the Minister of the Environment whether he has any plans to make it easier for non-farming rural dwellers to secure planning permission to build homes in the countryside. (AQO 3092/11-15)

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his question. With planning policy 21 (PPS 21) and other rural interventions, we have been trying to make it easier for farming rural dwellers and non-farming rural dwellers to secure planning permission to build homes in the countryside. I will give you one fact and figure to confirm that: compared with the similar quarter last year, approvals for new single dwellings in the countryside are now up from 83·9% to 88·5%, and for replacement dwellings, from April to June, compared with the same period a year ago, are up from 90·8% to 92%. Those figures confirm that, as PPS 21 beds in, as the operational review is ongoing and as better consistency, better practice and better interpretation of the policy is deployed, there are more and more better results across the Planning Service. That confirms opportunities for farming and non-farming rural dwellers.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Can the Minister confirm whether those figures are indeed talking about those on farming criteria? Does he have any idea when he will bring forward the outcomes of the review of PPS 21? Will there be guidelines with such a review?