Northern Ireland Assembly, 30 September 2013

265 contributions from 60 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Before we begin today's business, I wish to inform the House that the Speaker has received the resignation of Mr Kieran McCarthy as Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges. The nominating officer of the Alliance Party, Mr David Ford, has nominated Ms Anna Lo to fill the vacancy with effect from 30 September 2013. Ms Lo has accepted the nomination. The Speaker is satisfied that the requirements of Standing Orders have been met, and I confirm that Ms Lo has taken up office as Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges today.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

As with similar motions, this will be treated as a business motion. Therefore, there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mrs Dolores Kelly replace Mr Mark H Durkan as a member of the Committee for Social Development; and that Mr Fearghal McKinney be appointed as a member of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety. — [Mr P Ramsey.]

Ministerial Statement

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom ráiteas a dhéanamh faoin toradh ar an athbhreithniú ar cháilíochtaí GCSE agus A leibhéal. I want to make a statement regarding the outcome of the review of GCSE and A-level qualifications. I commissioned the review from the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) on 1 October last year, and it has now reported.

The review was commissioned following a series of policy announcements in England. Those announcements sparked considerable debate about high-stakes qualifications across these islands. The Secretary of State for Education in England is at liberty to determine what he feels is right for England, but, when the brand is equally shared on a tripartite basis with the North of Ireland and Wales, he and his officials need to give due regard to the implications for those jurisdictions.

As I outlined last year, I do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the GCSEs and A levels that we have, and CCEA’s report confirms that. The report contains 49 recommendations and helpfully condenses into one vehicle a range of short-term, medium-term and long-term actions that will provide a way forward for our next generation of learners.

The report draws on evidence provided by a wide range of stakeholders and was overseen by an expert group. The group consisted of employers, teachers, the FE and HE sectors and education specialists from the South of Ireland and Scotland. I would personally like to thank that expert group for its contribution to this significant work. This is only the start of the process. I am sure that we will continue to call on the members of that group for their views on the detailed work to be taken forward.

The report helpfully builds on the direction of travel that I have set in place here over the past two years, one that is based on engagement with as wide a range of stakeholders as possible, including the teaching profession. That involves listening to their views, challenging and testing those views and using their expertise and experience to determine the most appropriate way forward for our learners and our economy.

Among the recommendations is that GCSEs and A levels be retained in the short to medium term, with revisions to reflect the needs of our education policy and the economy. This would allow the qualifications to be developed to support our curriculum and reflect the needs of employers and higher education. There is also a need for flexibility in the design of GCSE and A-level qualifications to meet individual subject requirements. The qualification system should meet the needs of as wide a range of learners as possible. It is important that study from the age of 14 to 18 enables all our young people to develop wider skills that are of particular importance in further study and employment.

I recognise that the teaching profession is wary of the implications of significant change, particularly in high-stakes qualifications. However, faced with the choice of defining our own policy or following the Secretary of State for Education’s proposed reforms in England, there was unanimous support for the former. We will lead our own path and determine our own future.

This review makes recommendations on how GCSEs and A levels might be taken forward and how the focus on improvements in literacy, numeracy and ICT skills could be supported by the qualifications system. It is important that a qualifications system provides opportunities for every young person to achieve his or her potential.

Recommendations have been made to develop, support and value alternative qualification routes to the traditional GCSE and A-level pathway. I welcome that, as it supports the aims of the entitlement framework to provide all our young people with a rich and varied curriculum. The entitlement framework is now statutory in our schools, and the full requirements will be in place by September 2015. It is about providing courses that are relevant to young people, engage and motivate them and provide clear, relevant progression pathways for them to continue in education or move into training or employment. The economy demands that education help young people to prepare for a world of work that is fast changing and very different from when you or I were at school. In 2011-12, some 94·2% of school leavers remained in education, employment or training. We must continue to work to make sure that labour market information informs careers provision, informs choices and informs young people and their parents at the right time.

Young people who see their time in education as relevant are more likely to stay motivated and engaged with their learning. The currency of qualifications taken by learners in the North of Ireland must be ensured. Work must continue to provide young people here with qualifications that will take them wherever they wish to go. In the longer term, the sustainability of the qualifications strategy will have to be considered, taking account of changes being made to the qualifications in England and Wales and discussions on the use of qualification brand names.

The review draws together lessons from international best practice, and I would like to see that work built on in the longer term to promote continuous improvement in our qualifications. We need to start developing the vision now for the qualifications system that we want in 10 to 15 years' time.

I am satisfied that the report reflects opinions on the need for short-term changes, as well as an imperative to take a longer-term view of the qualifications system here. If necessary, that may include the consideration of a system that is independent from but demonstrably comparable with neighbouring jurisdictions. Given its magnitude and potential impact, I intend to consult on the recommendations in this final report, following which I will announce my decisions on the way forward.

Ba mhaith liom cloisteáil ó CTRí, ó ghairm na múinteoireachta, ó bhoird gobharnóirí, ó fhostóirí, ó thuismitheoirí, agus ó dhaltaí. Cuirim fáilte roimh gach tuairim. I want to hear views from MLAs, the teaching profession, boards of governors, employers, parents and pupils alike. All comments are welcome.

This is an extremely important and thought-provoking piece of work. It confirms where we are now and what we should strive for if we are to compete internationally with the best education provision in the world. I want to assure the Assembly that I will continue to take decisions that are in the best interests of all our young people, decisions that will safeguard their future, build on the positive aspects of our current education system and reach forward to the next quarter of the century to provide an international educational passport to success. I commend the review to the Assembly and encourage everyone to contribute to the consultation that will follow.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement and for facilitating a briefing for me and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Education before he came to the House. I encourage him to make the CCEA report, with its 49 recommendations, available to the Committee and to Members of the House as soon as possible.

I note that the Minister referred to concerns about the way forward. I welcome his recognition of the need to maintain the currency. I have been on public record as saying that we need to ensure that the transportability of our qualifications is not reduced to the proverbial Ulster Bank £5 note when it comes to acceptance in other parts of the United Kingdom. I encourage the Minister to do all in his power to ensure that the issue of transportability is maintained.

This was a very short statement on a very big issue. Perhaps, Mr Deputy Speaker, you will indulge me by allowing me to ask the Minister to tell us a little more about what he plans. I welcome the fact, however, that it seems that he is defending a traditional route this afternoon; maybe that might be transportable to other areas in the public domain at the moment.

The Minister has given us some information, but I would appreciate it if he could expand on that. Has he given up on the three-country model of accreditation, and will he consult further with his counterparts in Westminster on the way forward for GCSEs and A levels? Will he outline to the House the alternative qualification routes and progression pathways that he is consulting on? What elements of international best practice will he draw on in his longer-term plans for qualification systems? Finally, will he now begin, as a matter of urgency, the work of producing a 14-to-19 policy to provide an appropriate format for that important issue? Thank you for your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Chairperson of the Committee for Education for his questions.

I have not given up on the three-jurisdictions qualifications, but I suspect that others have. They are perfectly entitled to do so, but they have set a pathway that, they believe, suits their requirements and education system and their vision for education. I will continue to engage with my English and Welsh counterparts on the way forward. We will share our report and its recommendations with them, and I will be happy to take views from them on the way forward around that. Of course, the report will be made immediately available to the Education Committee and will be available online to all Members and the public as soon as this debate is over.

The Member asked about the international best practice that I referred to. If there are to be radical changes to our education system, the next steps, as proposed in the report, are that we should take up to three years carrying out research and consultation before we reach that stage. That is only right and proper. If we are talking about a fundamental change to our examination systems, I do not believe that that is achievable or desirable in the short term. Let us do it in a planned, mapped-out way that is based on best practice and research, and we will take evidence from international best practice from wherever it may come. That is the way forward.

My officials and officials from DEL continue to engage on the 14- to 19-year-old strategy. I accept that we have not reached a conclusion on it, although one of the recommendations in the report is that we have to move forward with a 14-to-19 strategy. I will take that into account when deciding the way forward.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Like the Committee Chair, I welcome the statement. Given the confusion among parents, families and teaching staff about some of the proposed changes in England, it is important to put on record that our Minister has acted to protect the exams that we have and to quell any confusion in this part of Ireland over Michael Gove's changes. That is to be welcomed. Will the Minister outline how he will ensure that our local exams remain robust and that qualifications remain portable throughout these islands?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I thank the Member for his question. Portability and the currency of exams has been foremost in my mind, and the expert review group touched on the issue several times in the report. I want to continue to see a situation in which students and potential employees can travel across these groups of islands with their examination results. In my statement, I referred to qualifications as a passport, and that is vital for our young people and our economy. It was commented on the radio this morning that it is surely not beyond our wit to achieve that, and I do not believe that it is. For example, the Scots run a completely different examinations system from England, Wales, us or the South of Ireland, and students are able to transfer back and forth quite easily. The Dublin Government run a different exams system again, and many students travel back and forth. Many international students also travel to our universities here and across the water.

The issue of comparability can and will be resolved. The report refers to the need for the regulatory bodies to engage constantly with one another, and I support that. I believe that discussion and interrogation of one another's exams systems is perfectly possible and that we will be able to move forward with a system in which our young people are able to travel wherever they wish, confident that their exams will be recognised.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis agus as ucht a chuid freagraí go dtí seo. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire an aontaíonn sé liom gur chóir líon na n-ábhar feidhmeach a mhéadú ag an dá leibhéal, GCSE agus ard leibhéal, sa dóigh is gur féidir cúrsaí oideachais agus cúrsaí fostaíochta a cheangal níos dlúithe le chéile?

I thank the Minister for his statement and his answers. Does he agree that it would be useful to increase the number of applied subjects at GCSE and A level? That would help to ensure that education and employment were more closely aligned.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as a cheist. I thank the Member for his question.

The report examined that issue in some detail. We have to place equal value on academic studies and what are commonly known as vocational studies. The report looked at alternative examinations for students who do not wish to go on to study A levels and may wish to go down other pathways. We have to examine that further as part of our work on the future of our examinations systems. The report recommends that that should happen over the next 10 to 15 years, although there will be shorter-term measures.

There are many pathways for our young people, and we have to be conscious that not all young people may want or be able to follow an academic route. It may not suit their needs or, I have to say, those of the economy. As a society, as parents, as careers advisers and as employers, we have to place equal value on academic and vocational qualifications. The report concentrates on that and makes recommendations on the need to bring forward a new set of qualifications that are valued equally beside all other qualifications.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement and very much welcome its broad direction.

From the meetings of the Westminster Education Committee, we note that the differences that have arisen over GCSEs are deeply regrettable. What action has the Minister taken to try to stop these divisions occurring? Will he elaborate on what he said about what he is putting in place to make sure that we know exactly what the Welsh and English will be doing? As an aside, did he or the Department respond to Ofqual's consultation on GCSEs?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I am not in a position to comment on what the Westminster Committee said about qualifications there. As I have said, the Secretary of State for Education in England is perfectly entitled to make whatever decisions he feels fit about his education system. However, I would offer some caution: where it affects the three jurisdictions, better communication and consultation should be in place before those decisions are made. I intend to share this report with my English and Welsh counterparts and, indeed, with my Scottish and Dublin counterparts for qualifications moving forward. I want to ensure that there are discussions and communications between the three.

I am not sure whether the Department responded to the Ofqual report that you refer to. I suspect that it was largely about changes that were taking place in England. We have had discussions. I have met Michael Gove, and my officials have had discussions with his officials on the way forward on GCSEs. Others are making decisions that they feel are right for their jurisdiction, and we have had to react to that. I think that the pathway mapped out in this report allows us to react to it in a measured, thought-out way without making any knee-jerk reactions and, at the same time, ensures that our qualifications are mutually respected across these islands, that they are portable and that the currency of the qualifications can and will be respected.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am beginning to feel my age a little bit, because I can remember when the O levels were changed over to GCSEs. I was not in the first year of that but a couple of years after.

Others have mentioned portability. Does the Minister envisage that, to best prepare our young people, there may be a need for flexibility to teach some subjects slightly differently? For example, the modular system could be continued for some so that certain topics can be explored further over a longer period, whereas others may be better tested under formal exam conditions at the end of year 12.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

When Mr Gove previously made changes to the modular and linear system in England, we carried out a consultation with the sectors, and it came back that our education system valued modular education in the appropriate subjects. I decided at that time to keep modular in the appropriate subjects, and I intend to do that. The report published today also suggests that we should move forward with modular and linear. There is no research that would direct us to either being the superior model, although many of our local educationalists tell me that modular learning suits our young people. It allows them to progress at their pace, although it continues to test them and to ensure that young people's abilities are brought out. So, I intend to continue with modular and linear.

I met with a number of the English and Welsh exam bodies last week. They are going to change their system to provide only linear. They wanted to know whether I was going to allow them to continue to operate here. I said that I would allow them to continue to operate here as long as their exams did not corrupt our curriculum and we were not making changes to our curriculum to meet the needs of exam bodies rather than the other way round. I have asked my officials to continue those engagements. I found the engagement with the bodies very useful, and I have asked my officials to continue to engage with them on the way forward as we work our way through this report and as they, as exam bodies, work their way through the changes that are being implemented in England.

Jonathan Craig (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Minister, your statement says that the report was provided by a:

"range of stakeholders and was overseen by an expert group."

That group consisted of employers, teachers, FE and HE sectors and education specialists from, as I noted with interest, the South of Ireland and Scotland. I ask the obvious question: why were there not experts there from England and Wales as well? Probably the key thing that we want to maintain in these islands is equivalence of exam qualifications. As you state, this is also only the start of the process. Can we have a guarantee from the Minister that that expertise will be there in future?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I assure the Member that my officials and I continue to engage with the Department for Education in England. My officials and I have a very good working relationship with the Department for Education and Skills in Wales. There is a constant flow of information and, for want of a better term, pre-warning of any proposals that are coming from Wales in this direction.

The Department for Education in England has its way of working, and that is how it works. I cannot direct it to work in a different way. It has made its decisions on how it operates and works. At times, those do not offer the most helpful way forward, but we keep lines of communication open and will continue to do so.

The expert group was brought together from the different jurisdictions because Scotland is not going through a change programme. Scotland has its examinations in place, and they are completely different from what we have. The South has a different exam system again. It went through some changes to the junior certificate, but it brought a different perspective to the GCSE debate. That is why I thought that it was of value to the expert group. The list of members on the expert group is in the report, and it brings together a mixed range of backgrounds and career pathways, which added only value to our report. The group was useful, and I thank it for its work.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. In the best interests of all our young people and their academic abilities, what long-term opportunities may be created with the changes announced today?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I do not wish to pre-empt the long-term changes to our qualification system. Although I am on record as saying that I would not have commenced down this pathway at this stage, the decisions that were made in England allowed us to start a journey, which we have yet to map out the final pathway to. It has allowed us to start a debate about our qualifications, what they should be and what they should test and bring out in our young people.

In the long term, I want to see a qualification system that allows all our young people to cherish their education and allows us to test the abilities of all our young people. I want a system that our universities, employers, parents and young people understand and in which we value all qualifications. As I said to a previous contributor, we should place equal value on academic and vocational qualifications because the changing nature of our economy means that our young people have to be flexible in their skills and in their ability to deliver those skills in the workplace.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his statement, which mentioned the focus on improvements in literacy, numeracy and ICT skills. Given that we heard again on the radio this morning about ICT skills shortages, will the Minister give assurances that he will consult those sectors to endeavour to have relevant, up-to-date IT and ICT GCSEs that fit the market?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I can assure the Member of that. Over the past number of weeks, I have engaged with employers from a wide range of backgrounds, including those who require IT skills in their companies. Those discussions were enlightening about the skills base that exists and the absence of skills. One of our major employers had to go to India to recruit because the appropriately qualified people are not here. That sets alarm bells off in my head right away. I will take a particular interest in the report and its recommendations, particularly around IT, ICT skills and computer science.

I am not convinced that we have got it right just yet or that we start at an early enough age. The report looks at our qualifications, and I also want to see what more we can do in our primary schools with computer science to turn our young people on to that skills base.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis ar maidin.

It has been mentioned a number of times this morning that it is important to have equivalent qualifications across these islands. I do not disagree with that. However, it is not more important that whatever qualification system we come up with is based on international best practice? If we use that criterion, then it does not matter where young people go because their qualifications will always be welcomed.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as a cheist. The simple answer to that is yes, because young people here now compete in an international market. We want to be able to ensure that young people here leave school highly qualified, highly motivated and highly skilled and that we invest in our local economy.

Some young people will choose to travel. We want to attract international investors by ensuring that they can be confident that young people here are highly qualified. That is the way forward. Although it may be very comforting and reassuring at times to look around this group of islands and judge ourselves against the exam systems in England, Scotland, Wales or down South, we have to judge ourselves against the international best. That is where we want to be. I want to see our exam system being examined by others and held up as the way forward. That is where we need to get to in the next number of years.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I particularly welcome the evolutionary nature of the whole process. Is it anticipated that there will be increased demand for our qualifications both from students here who do English board exams at present and students from England and Wales who are attracted to the continuation of a modular approach?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As I have said previously, I certainly want our exam system to be held up as an international example of the way forward. As I also said to a previous contributor, I am allowing an open market to remain with the English and Welsh boards delivering exams here as long as that does not corrupt our curriculum. If it starts to corrupt our curriculum, I will have to look at that again. Throughout the report, the consultation which led to its development, previous changes that I made to the examination system and the consultation contained in that, modular exams were highly regarded in the education system. I intend to keep them. I would like others to look at our examples and say that they want them in their schools also. However, as far as I am aware, changes being made in England have completely ruled out modular exams in their system. Again, that is a matter for them.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for his statement and his interesting responses so far. Can he detail what Department, public organisation or industry body will, ultimately, be responsible for informing business and employers about the practical differences between the new qualifications? I believe that there will be concern about the restriction on students' ability to partake of only one resit, particularly in English and maths, as many employers to whom I talk emphasise the need for those subjects. Can the Minister can indicate his assessment of the English suggestion that students can resit ad infinitum?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I have to say that I am not comfortable talking about another jurisdiction's decisions. It is for others to do that. We have to ensure that young people who travel through the education system for 12 or 13 years are, at the end of that, capable of passing exams in English and maths which meet the needs of the young person and the economy. That is where we want to be. During a previous consultation, concerns were expressed about the number of resits available and whether that devalued the exam when it was achieved. I accepted those concerns. I believe that the resits that have been offered are appropriate and ensure that young people are tested on ability and that that ability can be expressed in the workplace. I am sorry: I have forgotten the first part of the Member's question. I will take guidance from the Chair on whether there is an opportunity to restate it.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

Can the Minister detail what Department or organisation will inform employers of the difference in qualifications?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As part of the review, I insisted that a wide range of employers were involved in discussions. As we move the report forward and as the consultation is brought to an end, whatever recommendations come out of that, I want to ensure that employers are on board and are part of moving that forward, including the development of new exams, because my discussions over the last period have been very useful.

We all meet and engage regularly with business leaders and employers. There is a separation between education and employers, and we need to close that gap. We need to ensure that our schools understand what employment is going on and what employment opportunities are out there, and vice versa. I do not have the answers to that yet. Hence, we are going out to consultation. Whatever comes out of this, employers and education have to be one and the same.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his statement and, indeed, his answers so far. Minister, my concerns are very much the same as those of Mrs Overend. I assume that, for pupils who do GCSEs and A levels in Northern Ireland and decide to go to university, there will be a benchmark against which they can sell their qualifications when looking for employment opportunities. From listening to your answers to Mrs Overend, I am not quite clear whether there is a route for employers, employer organisations or other outside bodies to benchmark the Northern Ireland qualifications against those that will come into being in England. That is particularly important where a young person does not go to university but seeks employment based on his GCSEs and A levels.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The benchmarking of qualifications here against those in England, Wales, Scotland and down South will be carried out by the regulator. There is a system in place to carry out that work. We have to ensure that the regulators engage with each other, which they are, and that the outcomes of that — knowledge, skills etc — are transferred back to employers, parents, schools etc so that when career pathways are being decided in schools, everyone knows what qualifications are required, whether you are staying here or are moving to university elsewhere.

I am not here to say that I have all the answers at this stage. The report poses 49 recommendations. It poses questions to me, as Minister, and to our society about the way forward for qualifications. I am sending that out to consultation. There is no point in me standing here and saying, "These are 49 great recommendations. I have all the answers", because, currently, I do not have all the answers. However, I am confident that, given the research work carried out to date and the recommendations in the report, we will be able to map a steady course through an evolving education system and qualification system into the future. I am confident of that because, when I look around these islands, I see that the Welsh are currently mapping their way through that and the Scottish have done so previously. Their exam systems are highly regarded, the qualifications are transferable and their currency is respected.

Part of the report concentrates on the views of employers. I encourage all Members to read the report and particularly that paragraph. It is quite enlightening to hear the views of the employers who came back to the expert group. I think that that is an important element of the report. As I said to Mrs Overend, moving forward, the views of employers will not be ignored.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Minister told us a few times this morning that he does not have all the answers. Is that not why pupils very often fail their exams?

The Minister is, I believe, trying to make school more relevant to the workplace, and we all welcome that. What plans does he have to afford teachers the opportunity to spend time in the workplace? Likewise, what incentives are there for people in the workplace to join the teaching profession?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Perhaps the wrong answer is as bad as no answer. I think that if I were to stand up at this stage — at the start of a consultation process — and say, "Behold, I have all the answers", I would be accused of ignoring the consultation. So let the consultation continue. The report that we are publishing today is very well informed, and I think that Members and educators will find it useful. Let us respond by having a debate about where we want to see our qualification system going in the future.

The question of providing opportunities for teachers to spend time in employment other than education needs to be thrashed out.

Are we prepared to finance periods of leave for our teachers to work in industry? I think that we should.

Recently, I have been having conversations with employers about why we are not using more modern technology to bring the classroom into the workplace and vice versa. Many of our leading businesspeople are very busy, but they want to contribute society, and we should use more modern technology to allow those people to come into the classroom via the internet, or whatever way it may be, and let them speak directly to teachers and vice versa.

We are looking at teacher training. We recruit many of our teachers straight out of post-primary school at 18, 19 and 20 years of age. They are highly qualified and motivated, and they are great young people. Perhaps we should recruit them at 25 or 30 years of age to go into training colleges, to allow them the experience of the workplace or different environments before they go into the classroom. However, that question will be posed as part of a review of teacher education.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

My concern about where this may be going is its impact on the buying power of our local qualifications. If Secretary of State Gove is making GCSEs and A levels more rigorous in the greater part of the United Kingdom, namely England, and we cling to the easier processes of modules and assessment, will the losers not be our own students, who emerge with qualifications that will be deemed lesser when compared with those in the majority of the United Kingdom? It is the question of portability. The Minister said that he is interested in that, but he is not interested enough to have had on his expert panel someone from the greater part of the United Kingdom — England — where those changes are being made to understand the whys, wherefores and outworkings. I repeat Mr Craig's question: why was that, and will the Minister seriously address the portability question?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

You should not have an inferiority complex about our continuing ability to deliver rigorous exams. What educational research evidence do you use to state that the changes being made in England will make its examination system more rigorous? I challenge you to produce it. I assure you that the research panel, my Department and I, and others have studied this subject intensely, and no one can produce for me the educational research to suggest that the changes being made in England make its examination system more rigorous. There is certainly no research to suggest anything about the changes that we have introduced here or that will maybe flow from our recommendations. However, we will take three years, as proposed in the report, to establish a new examination system. As part of that, we will study what is happening in England and across the world and will end up with a rigorous examination system. It is a severe case of an inferiority complex, which the Member is not usually renowned for, if he believes that, because we do not follow England, our exam system will be easier. There is no research to support your thinking on that, and given your reputation as a man who interrogates subjects, I suggest that you interrogate that one a bit further.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

In the Minister's earlier replies, he spoke about not wanting the process to be insular. How can he guarantee that, when seemingly all we have heard so far is that it will be very much a Northern Ireland model? If he goes down that road, and it becomes insular, how will he benchmark success, and how will we know what success looks like? Indeed, as Mr Allister said, how do you guarantee that standard? How does he stop what is effectively a two-tiered system developing between our secondary schools and grammar schools if they opt for different systems?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

All our schools, regardless of the title on the gate, teach the same curriculum, and the entitlement framework will be across all our schools by 2015. Indeed, it is being rolled out. So all our schools have to be entitlement-framework compliant, which means that they have to teach a wide range of subjects across academia, vocational skills etc. They have to offer those to their pupils. Schools will require an examination system that offers exams for all those young people. So I am not overly concerned that, in some way, two different systems will develop from this.

Throughout the changes announced in England, and their impacts here, we as a Department have been very careful to engage with our local educationalists and learn from best practice across this group of islands and, indeed, elsewhere before making any decisions. The report that I publish today recommends that we take three years to research and evaluate the best way forward to match our exam system with the best in the world.

How will we benchmark it? How do the Scottish benchmark their exam system? It can be done, as Scotland has proved. How does the South of Ireland benchmark its exam system? It can and will be done. The Welsh are moving in a different direction from Mr Gove. Indeed, Mr Gove will have to benchmark his system as well. We should not be thinking that, if there is a break in the GCSE and A-level link, we will be at sea on our own, and it will be impossible for us to compare our exam systems against the best in the world. It is done currently, it will be done in the future, and I have every confidence that, after the work carried out in producing this report, we will have an exam system that we can continue to be proud of.

As I said in my statement, I do not believe that GCSEs and A levels were so fundamentally flawed that they required overhauling at his stage. Others made decisions that gave us the opportunity to do something similar or different, but let us ensure that whatever we do is based not on press releases or statements made elsewhere but on research.

Executive Committee Business

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I beg to move

That the draft Lands Tribunal (Salaries) Order (Northern Ireland) 2013 be approved.

The Lands Tribunal is a court of record established under the Lands Tribunal and Compensation Act (Northern Ireland) 1964 and deals with a variety of civil disputes. My Department is responsible for the administration of the tribunal and for determining the remuneration of its judiciary. The tribunal’s judiciary currently consists of a president, one valuer member and a temporary member, all of whom were appointed by the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Commission.

The draft order before the House provides for an increase in the remuneration of the tribunal’s judiciary, effective from 1 April this year. It is made under powers contained in the 1964 Act, which provides that the draft of the order must be approved by the Assembly. The draft order provides for an increase in the office holders’ salaries of 1%. This follows the announcement by the Prime Minister on 14 March that the Government had decided to increase judicial salaries by 1%, based on the recommendation of the Review Body on Senior Salaries.

Judicial salaries were last increased in April 2009. This announcement, therefore, follows the end of a three-year pay freeze. The Department of Finance and Personnel has approved the increase, and I would like to thank the Committee for Justice for its consideration of the draft order and its support for the proposal. I commend the order to the House.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am pleased to speak as Chairman of the Committee. As the Minister outlined, the rule provides for increases in the annual salary of the president and other members of the Lands Tribunal for Northern Ireland. It is in line with the 2013 report of the Review Body on Senior Salaries and the subsequent announcement by the Prime Minister in a written statement in March that the Government had decided that judicial salaries should increase by 1%. On that basis, the Committee agreed that it was content with the statutory rule, and, therefore, supports the motion today.

Speaking in a personal capacity, I think that there is, perhaps, something for the Department to look at. It seems a little odd that we have to deal with an affirmative resolution procedure for a pay increase in the region of £1,300 to £1,400, and it has to come to the Assembly. Indeed, I think that one individual will not even benefit from this.

Yet we deal with the likes of legal aid, which handles millions of pounds and impacts on the whole legal profession, by way of negative resolution. It seems strange that the 1964 Act requires this detail of debate — if that exciting debate follows — and yet the vast majority of other issues for the Committee are dealt with by way of negative resolution. I am of the view that that should be regularised in order that it be treated in the same fashion as negative resolution. I do not envisage a problem in taking that course of action on this issue. Nevertheless, the 1964 Act requires the Assembly to debate this, and the Committee has indicated its support for the order to go through.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Chair for expressing the Committee's opinion so lucidly, and I agree with Paul Givan in the sentiments that he personally expressed. The fact that the 1964 Act requires this to go through by way of affirmative resolution is no doubt something that, as we tidy up what has not been done right in the period before devolution, we will have to add to, although on this occasion we are blaming the previous Stormont Parliament rather than blaming Westminster, which makes a slight change. He also correctly identified that one of the individual members, because he is the Lord Justice of Appeal, will not be affected by the order. Having noted those interesting historical quirks, I commend the order to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That the draft Lands Tribunal (Salaries) Order (Northern Ireland) 2013 be approved.

Committee Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

We may have a difficulty continuing in that we do not have a quorum. [Interruption.] I call Mr Daithí McKay.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasChann Comhairle. I beg to move

That, in accordance with Standing Order 33(4), the period referred to in Standing Order 33(2) be extended to 13 December 2013, in relation to the Committee Stage of the Financial Provisions Bill (NIA Bill 22/11-15).

The Financial Provisions Bill was introduced to the Assembly on 17 June 2013 and received its second reading on 1 July 2013. The Bill consists of six substantive clauses and one schedule.

The main purpose of the Bill is to adjust statutory limits and to address other routine financial matters for various Departments. The Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP) is the lead department, and, therefore, the Finance and Personnel Committee is coordinating the scrutiny of the Bill. However, the Bill includes a range of provisions relating to the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, the Department of Justice, the Department for Social Development and the Audit Office. The Committee for Finance and Personnel sought early comment from the relevant Assembly Committees and raised issues of relevance in advance of Second Stage. Further written responses have also been invited from interested stakeholders during the Committee Stage.

In respect of the Department of Finance and Personnel, the Committee was recently briefed by departmental officials on two proposed amendments to the Bill that will make provision for rating. On 11 September, officials informed the Committee that the Minister will bring forward these amendments at Consideration Stage. The first amendment concerns the early payment discount and will seek to extend the current discount that is allowed for the early repayment of rates on occupied dwellings to include unoccupied dwellings or empty homes.

The second proposed amendment is technical in nature and will seek to clarify the need for ratepayers to provide an effective date of occupation to Land and Property Services (LPS). Departmental officials advised that this will allow LPS to get much more accurate information for the purposes of rates billing and, in particular, the backdating of rates. The Committee is due to receive further briefing when the wording of the amendments becomes available.

The Examiner of Statutory Rules has also considered the delegated powers memorandum submitted by DFP, and raised issues in relation to powers of the Department of Justice to make subordinate legislation. We anticipate that that may also result in further amendments tabled for Consideration Stage.

Given the evidence that remains to be collected on the Bill and the content of amendments to be examined, the Committee is seeking an extension to ensure that it can conduct the appropriate level of scrutiny required. The extension is also being sought in the context of a Committee work programme that is fully committed until Halloween recess, with the Committee Stage of the Public Service Pensions Bill taking priority. The proposed date of extension, which has been agreed with the Department, will allow for existing work pressures to be met, as well as any unforeseen business. I therefore seek an extension to the deadline for the Committee Stage until 13 December 2013 to allow the Committee sufficient time to reach a considered position and report on the Bill to the Assembly.

I ask Members to give their support to the motion.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved:

That, in accordance with Standing Order 33(4), the period referred to in Standing Order 33(2) be extended to 13 December 2013, in relation to the Committee Stage of the Financial Provisions Bill (NIA Bill 22/11-15).

Private Members' Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. One amendment has been selected and published on the Marshalled List. The proposer will have 10 minutes in which to propose the amendment and five minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat. I beg to move

That this Assembly notes with concern the recent revelations regarding the abuse and exploitation of children and young people; calls on the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to liaise with the Minister of Justice to initiate an inquiry to ascertain the prevalence of abuse and exploitation of children both in care and elsewhere; and further calls on all relevant Departments to outline the strategies that will be put in place to safeguard and protect all children and young people.

I start by reinforcing the last line of the motion, which is that all that we do is about strategies that will protect children and young people. Everything that we do in the House and beyond to highlight and eradicate that abuse needs to be child-centred and about safeguarding and protecting our children and young people, especially those who are most vulnerable.

No one can ignore the public exposure of the issues over the past few weeks. However, we should not be shocked, as the issue was highlighted in a Barnardo's report that was published in 2011. Its research dates back to 2009. In effect, the work is four years old. In fact, I can confirm to the House that a Social Services Inspectorate report titled 'Our Children and Young People — Our Shared Responsibility' was commissioned in 2006. Although the vulnerable nature of young people involved in sexual exploitation is shocking, particularly when we learn that some of them do not even realise that they are being abused, it is just as shocking that reports date back to 2006 in which organisations and agencies were recommended and mandated to respond to the abuse of children. That, in anybody's terms, is wrong and has failed children.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair)

Although I appreciate that a huge amount of work goes on in social services to protect children, the fact remains that 18 children left care facilities over 400 times in an 18-month period. That is nothing short of failure. Although I am not advocating that those children be locked up, we need to ensure that the law is robust so that it enshrines the protection of children as paramount and that that is the judgement taken in all those situations.

'Minimum Standards for Children's Homes' states:

"The home considers with the placing authority what action should be taken to prevent the child or young person going missing in future."

It refers to the statutory implementation of the North of Ireland guidance on missing children in homes policy. If a child's whereabouts is known to the PSNI, assistance must be sought. Regional guidance for police involved in residential units was published by the Health and Social Care Board and the PSNI in May 2012. Although it is apparent that child sexual exploitation is not an offence under the Sexual Offences Order 2008, there is enough to act if harbourers are used. Article 21 concerns the arranging or facilitating commission of a sex offence against a child.

So, if options exist within the law, if safeguarding boards are in place and if joint protocols exist, why have we failed these children? Although I very much welcome the Health Minister's change of heart, going from considering appointing an independent expert to reviewing practices and then, finally, to establishing an independent expert-led inquiry, a number of questions still need to be answered. Following his statement, during public interviews the Minister referred to an "investigation". That is not what is required. An inquiry with proper independence, powers to investigate and accountability mechanisms is required. We should not be afraid to learn the lessons, and, if Departments have failed after they have been mandated to act, they will need to be accountable.

The Barnardo’s report had six recommendations. Five were in the remit of the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, and the sixth was the responsibility of the Department of Justice. Recommendation 3 requested that the Health and Social Care Board develop a:

"targeted and fully resourced action plan ... that includes consideration of ... data collection and monitoring; professional competency and capacity; best practice models ... including ... a co-located inter-agency model of response; regional implementation of the sexual exploitation risk assessment tool; resourcing of a regional specialist support service."

It was recommended that the Public Health Agency develop a public campaign to:

"raise awareness of the sexual exploitation of children and young people."

However, at the joint Health and Justice Committee meeting of the past few weeks, we were told that this is only the beginning of some of these processes. I remind Members that all six of those recommendations were commissioned by the Department of Health and were launched publicly in 2011.

I also remind the House that the children order was established in 1995, which is some 18 years ago. That order requires an examination that ensures that the protection of children and young people is paramount. Although the focus in this current investigation has been on children in care, child sexual exploitation will be happening to children in the community who are not known to social services. It is vital, therefore, that we get messages to parents who may be concerned about their children. NSPCC has initiated a public helpline, and its number is 0800 389 1701. Since 16 September, there have been 13 enquiries, resulting in 10 referrals to PSNI and social services. That is 10 referrals in 14 days.

On Wednesday 25 September, the Minister of Health announced in a written statement to the Assembly that he and the Minister of Justice will set up an independent expert-led inquiry. No further detail has been provided on that. There is no further detail on the nature of the inquiry, the powers that it will have or whether it will be a public inquiry that experts will lead or whether it will take evidence and hear witnesses. It is our view and the view of the Children's Law Centre and other groups supporting children and young people that this inquiry must be robust, fully independent and equipped with all the necessary resources and powers to address the abuse that has taken place. The inquiry must acknowledge the experiences of the children and young people who have been abused. Critically, it must look at the failures that have allowed child sexual exploitation to continue.

I note that the Health and Social Care Board produced a strategic action plan in August 2010 entitled 'Children Missing from Home or Care'. That was never consulted on, disseminated or acted on. It is now fundamental to the credibility of any inquiry established to address child sexual exploitation that it is wholly independent. Independence must be real and viewed as such by the children involved, the agencies of government and the public.

Although the Safeguarding Board plays an important role in safeguarding children, given the jurisdictional nature of the issue and the fact that the Safeguarding Board is constituted of people representing bodies that have a current statutory duty to protect children, it may be perceived — probably wrongly — that the Safeguarding Board may not be independent enough to examine those cases. Transparency is critical. Although the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority (RQIA) and the Criminal Justice Inspection do an excellent job, they will not be perceived as sufficiently independent to carry out the inquiry. In that context, it is vital that the inquiry examines why, when it was known that child sexual exploitation was happening from at least 2006, the Departments failed to protect those children.

Any proposed inquiry must also be set within the framework of international human rights standards. What does not appear to have been included in the proposed remit at present is an examination of whether any failings have occurred regarding the Health Department's obligations to children and young people. There does not appear to be any accountability mechanism for those failings within the proposed remit. This is an opportunity to address an awful blight in our communities and societies. We all need to remain focused.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Will the Member bring her remarks to a close?

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Nothing short of a full, independent, robust inquiry can provide us with those answers.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I beg to move the following amendment:

Leave out all after "protect" and insert

"all children and young people."

It is important that we put in place safeguarding and protection strategies that will cover all our young children; it is not just about the children in care. Yes, we need to have a particular focus on them, but we have to ensure that all vulnerable children, particularly those living in our communities, are also adequately protected.

I picked up on some comments at the end of last week from a child carer who had been talking to a group of young people. The comment that was reported in the media was, "Why are the officials arguing when we are still being raped?" Let us make sure that we move forward constructively, take the lessons and solve the difficulties that are there. After all that is done, let us spend as much time as it takes to investigate the past, but let us try to prevent the abuse that is happening now today. It is important that we move forward.

Why did I feel that it was necessary to table an amendment to the original motion? In the evidence to the joint Health and Justice Committee, Seán Holland, chief social services officer, said:

"Children in care are particularly vulnerable to sexual exploitation for a number of reasons, particularly the experiences that probably led them to being in care in the first place. However, the academic evidence is that they represent only about 20% of children likely to experience childhood sexual exploitation. So it is a much bigger issue than just children who are in care."

For that primary reason, I felt that it was important for us to look at the safeguarding and protection of all children.

The statistic recently highlighted was that 22 young people have been sexually exploited while in care. There is a lot of information stating that that is just the tip of the iceberg. There may well be other children in care also suffering, but even just look at those 22. If those statistics, which have been established from desktop research, are accurate, we can expect there to be 80 more young children in Northern Ireland being sexually exploited in the community where they are living. So, it is important that, while focusing on the children in care, who are particularly vulnerable, we must also ensure that we look at other young children in our community who are equally vulnerable.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Member for giving way. He has outlined that 20% of children are in care, in addition to the greater number of children who are not. Therefore, does he agree that it is essential that the wider community gets the unanimous message from the Assembly that it is the care of and compassion for all children that must be the defining factor of the outcome of today's deliberations?

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I accept that absolutely. Given the fact that sexual exploitation is occurring in the community, it is important that we do not overlook that fact, and that we do not stigmatise the children who are in care. The life that they have experienced so far is not their fault. However, it is important that we recognise the scale of the problem that exists beyond our care homes. It is important that the community — neighbours, friends, and children and young people in schools — watch out for warning signs and feed their concerns into the system so that they can be addressed at the earliest possible opportunity, and so that fewer children reach our care homes and experience such difficulties in their life.

I notice from the recent child protection referral statistics that, at 30 June 2013, 1,790 children and young people are on the child protection register. There are 436 in the Northern Trust; 378 in the Belfast Trust; 359 in the South Eastern Trust; 316 in the Southern Trust, and 301 in the Western Trust. Those young people are deemed to be vulnerable. However, it is widely known that that vulnerability can often expose them to additional risks. I have no doubt that there are predators in the community who would spot a vulnerability — a lack of parenting assistance perhaps — and try to take advantage of that. So, it is important that, as a community, we look together to try to combat that and protect some of the weakest members in our community, those vulnerable children. We must look after all children in our community. It is not just about the children in care.

The third reason for the amendment is that, if we are actually going to empower our children and young people against grooming and predators who try to ingratiate themselves and ultimately abuse and misuse them, it is important that we work at the earliest possible stage. There is no point simply working with children once they reach care and have a very thorough protection and safeguarding system at that stage. We must work at the earliest stage, right from primary-school age children. Take, for example, stranger danger; we must start warning all our children and young people, with age-appropriate messages, of the dangers that exist.

There has been a lot of concern recently around how inappropriate relationships are built over the internet, through Facebook etc. It is important that children and young people are educated in that with, I say once again, age-appropriate information. Ultimately, where children are vulnerable, they have to be told about the dangers of grooming. Where there is a clear risk for older children, that must be talked about. It goes much wider than our care homes. We have to start in the community, in schools and in youth clubs. Perhaps some vulnerable children are not at school regularly.

So, we must work out how we are going to get the message to such vulnerable children, how we are going to look after them and how we are going to support families with difficulties. In my own constituency, I am aware of some very successful programmes with families where relationships had become estranged. By early intervention — perhaps for children deemed to be at risk of offending — and by working with the family, the parent and the child, great improvements can be made at that early stage so that family breakdown does not happen, so that children become less vulnerable, so that normal parenting support is there and so that we are not reliant on our care homes, with the difficult relationships that exist there.

We must be cognisant of our social workers who work in care homes. It is a very difficult job. They are working with young people who have been frequently damaged by their life experience, and there are regulations and restrictions in respect of what you can and cannot do. Do we want children in our care homes all placed under lock and key? That would be a fire hazard to start with. What are we going to do in terms of restraining? When is it appropriate? If you are going to rely on that as a last resort, I say that that is much too late. We must put greater emphasis at the earlier stage, have earlier intervention, work through the community and give better education and support so that fewer of our vulnerable children reach that stage.

Equally, we must continue to fund Safe Choices, which is the very successful programme that Barnardo's has been running. It tries to befriend and to help to make many young people aware that they are in abusive relationships, as they might not recognise that they are in such relationships, because abusive adults have befriended them and, ultimately, have betrayed those friendships and are abusing them. So, I think that it is important to widen it to all our children at that earlier stage.

Turning briefly to some of the wider issues, I agree that it is important that we have an independent inquiry, which the Minister has set up. It is equally important that we have a speedy inquiry and that we concentrate on learning lessons and not looking back into the past for the sake of it but making sure that we have the best possible procedures in place today so that we can safeguard and protect the children of today. There is great concern and danger that, if we look back at what happened in the past, the cooperation that has been happening could fall apart and the protection may not be as good as it should be.

I have spoken to some social workers, and they have told me that they have been aware that this has been going on for 30 years. This is nothing new. There have been abusive adults in our society.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member must draw his remarks to a close.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

We must get wiser and better protect our children in need.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

There is no doubt that this is one of the most serious issues that the Assembly will debate in this mandate. We have to accept that the basic building blocks of our society that protect our children are rapidly breaking down. We have a huge increase in the number of relationship failures. We have social media, the internet and the shocking statistic that 90% of boys under 16 years of age in the United Kingdom have been exposed to hard-core pornography. These are all issues that many of us in this Chamber did not face as children. Many of us were fortunate to be brought up in very stable, loving homes, where many of the things that our young people today are being exposed to were unimaginable. Yet, now, unfortunately, our children are being exposed to things that no 16-year-old should ever experience.

We also have to accept that, unfortunately, while we are dealing today with abuse in institutions controlled by the trusts, the vast majority of abuse that goes on in Northern Ireland is going on in the home or is being committed by persons known to the victim. Therefore, while this is a very worrying situation, and there is a special need to care for those in homes who are most vulnerable, we seem to be facing an epidemic of abuse of our most vulnerable well away from the eyes of the state and the trusts. Therefore, I agree entirely with Mr Beggs when he states that we need to look much more widely at what is happening to our children.

Sadly, a large number of those who are abused do not realise that they are being abused at all. The majority are young girls who have had a desperately poor hand dealt to them in life. They have perhaps come from broken homes and been passed from pillar to post and from one family to the other, and when they are shown some form of affection by an older man — and these men do not tend to be in their 50s or 60s; they tend to be only a few years older than the girls — they latch on to it. Even though that affection can often have a terrible price in terms of abuse, and, often, the young girl is passed around for sexual services among other men, they still latch on to the fact that someone cares for them, someone is paying them attention and someone is buying them alcohol, drugs or presents for what they are doing. Therefore, you are dealing with a situation where it is very difficult to control young people leaving institutions and getting involved in things that are highly undesirable.

Now that we realise that it is happening, the Minister has been absolutely right in taking the action that he has taken. It was the Rochdale and Oxford cases that alerted the police to a succession of random events that were building up and indicating a pattern of almost systematic sexual abuse. As soon as the Minister became aware of that, action was taken.

The Safeguarding Board was established. The Committee, when I was its Chair, spent a huge amount of time ensuring that that body was strengthened in its powers and effectiveness. The Bill that set up the Safeguarding Board was improved as a result of the scrutiny of all members of the Committee. The board is up and running, and it has produced an action plan.

The Minister has announced that there will be an inquiry, which is also the right action. The honourable Member for Foyle mentioned that she felt that there was a lack of detail about that. I have no doubt that the Minister, during his summation, will provide more detail. If he does not, it is up to the Member to table any questions that she feels need to be answered so that we have more information. Given past records, I am absolutely certain that this inquiry will be open, exhaustive and extensive. We have learned our lessons from other inquiries in Northern Ireland. We now know that we need to try to make them quick and to the point, and they should report quickly. With the pseudomonas inquiry, for example, rather than going for a full-blown judicial inquiry that could last a decade — as one has — we have gone for something that gets to the point of concern more quickly. I am absolutely certain that this inquiry will be very much like that.

We need to know the facts and the truth, but we have a much more fundamental issue to address. If our society continues to break down the way that it is, we will have more and more examples of vulnerable people being abused. We need to address the core issues as to why that is happening and take action immediately.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Cuirimse fáilte roimh an rún agus roimh an leasú chomh maith. I welcome the motion and the amendment. The recent revelations have caused widespread concern among the public about how we care for some of the most vulnerable in our society. From the media reports, it appears to many that children in care have been abandoned to deal by themselves with the abusers and sexual predators. It is essential that we restore faith in the social care system that is responsible for looking after children and young people at risk. Likewise, it is crucial that we recognise and put on the record that many people in that social care system do valuable and good work.

It is vital that the justice system is seen to be able to deal with those responsible for abusing children and young people. I welcome the decision to direct the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland to undertake a thematic review of the cases that triggered the police investigation in order to learn lessons from the management of those cases and improve future practice.

The setting up of an independent, expert-led inquiry into child exploitation here, supported by the Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority and the Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland, is also a welcome step. The Health Minister has said of the inquiry:

"The remit is wide-ranging and not confined to children in the care system ... the recommendations will be wider reaching than justice and health and social care."

Let us hope so, because it is clear that there has been a massive failure in some areas of social care and policing. There are any number of unanswered questions to be addressed by the review and inquiry. Why did the police decide to review those cases in the first place? Having done so, what mistakes were found to have been made in the initial investigations? What interventions did social services attempt in those cases? Who was responsible for the decisions being taken? We have all seen reports, and the problems have been highlighted previously. Why was prompt and properly coordinated action not taken to address those problems?

Of particular concern is the suggestion that the recommendations of a 2010 Health and Social Care Board report on children missing from care have not been fully implemented. It has been reported that there are:

"concerns about how much information was shared between the police and social services about young people at risk of abuse."

If that is the case, that issue also needs to be investigated fully.

We must also be mindful of the warnings from the NSPCC and the children's charity Barnardo's. The cases currently identified, involving 22 young people aged between 13 and 18, may be only the tip of the iceberg.

We have a responsibility to investigate what went wrong and do everything we can to prevent that situation recurring. However, there is also a need to ensure that attention and resources are not diverted from the crucial task of protecting children and young people at risk of sexual exploitation, and keeping them safe, here and now.

I support the motion and the amendment.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I support the motion. I have to concur with the comments of the Deputy Chair, Jim Wells, who said that this was perhaps one of the most important and distressing debates that we have had in the Assembly during this mandate.

What we have heard recently is totally and absolutely obnoxious, shocking and horrendous and a real let-down and failure of our young people. Though the words of the motion may have been somewhat overtaken by events, the debate remains highly relevant, and I am grateful to Maeve McLaughlin, the Chair of the Committee, and her colleagues for bringing it to the Floor.

Everyone must join in expressing alarm at the sexual exploitation of children and young people and how it has been allowed to continue for so long. It is particularly sad when the young people are vulnerable or have suffered abuse.

Although the focus has primarily and originally fallen on young people who live in care homes or in other care settings, others have stressed that young people are at risk in a wide range of settings. Coercion can be obvious, but it can often be very subtle, so exploitation can come in many forms and may not be readily apparent to the victim, either at the time or even with the benefit of hindsight. Also, the nature of coercion or enticement can quickly change, and it is in this regard that we should be mindful of the particular dangers that can come from the internet and via social media.

The current efforts of the Office of First Minister and deputy First Minister to coordinate the policy and actions of various Departments on the dangers of the internet and the protection of young people take on particular importance. No doubt, there have been systemic failings, but, in acknowledging that, we should also acknowledge the very committed and professional role played by many care staff, including social workers, in our social services and care system.

I welcome the statement by the Minister of Health and Social Services on setting up an independent inquiry in conjunction with others, including the Minister of Justice. This is a multifaceted problem, and addressing it will involve a range of inputs and responses from a number of Departments and agencies. However, it is right and appropriate that the Department of Health and Social Services takes the lead. A number of key questions must be asked and fully explored. It is not immediately clear whether all those issues are explicitly covered in the terms of reference of the inquiry announced by the Minister last week, but I presume that they will be addressed.

We need to understand how we ended up in this situation. My understanding is that relatively recent police investigations lifted the lid on a situation that is, potentially, much more widespread. Why did systems not flag up problems much earlier? Were previous attempts to highlight problems spurned or downplayed? What evidence is there of learning from the risks becoming apparent in other jurisdictions? Those are questions that should be answered. What lessons have already been learned and applied from the Barnardo's report and other similar initiatives?

I hope, Mr Deputy Speaker, that this can be a speedy and efficient inquiry, given the urgency of getting it right. The key first step is to properly understand the nature and scale of the problem. Once the recommendations have been made, it will be incumbent upon government to work proactively and collectively to ensure that they are properly implemented without delay. I know that my colleague the Justice Minister and the agencies of the criminal justice system will be very committed to playing their part in supporting the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and others in that regard. Such is the urgency of the matter, I urge any of the relevant agencies to introduce new policies and procedures —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member will bring his remarks to a close.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

— on an interim or provisional basis, as soon as possible. The Alliance Party gives its support to the motion and the amendment.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

This is a very important issue. That is why I called a special meeting of the Justice and Health Committees when the news broke. Within 48 hours, we had the two Ministers sitting in front of the Committee and were holding them to account and asking questions about how this could have happened. I put on record my appreciation for them enabling us to do that.

What has disappointed me so far in this debate is that, to date, not one Member who has spoken has mentioned where the blame for this rests, which is on the perpetrators who carried out this most horrendous crime against the vulnerable individuals who are now the victims. I welcome the debate in the Assembly, but the proposer of the motion spent 10 minutes talking and did not mention the perpetrators. She spent 10 minutes saying that the focus needs to be on holding people to account and on an investigation of what went wrong in the past. I agree with that; it is right that we do those things. However, like the proposer of the amendment, I think that it is important that we focus on what we are doing today and now to protect people, children who are vulnerable in care and those across society. I say that because I am listening to the charities and those organisations that have said that the blame game is counterproductive. I could easily call for the resignation of the Justice Minister or the Chief Constable. If I so wanted to grab a cheap headline, I could do that. I do not believe that that would be beneficial, because we need the organisations to work collectively. The charities rightly say that engaging in the blame game could lead to people retrenching into the silos, which is where the system failed in the past, and they say that they are now working more closely together. If we go back to trying to pin this on some individual, we are in danger of losing the practice that exists, which is better than what it was. Did it fail in the past? Yes, it did.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Thank you for taking an intervention. Does the Member agree with organisations such as the Children's Law Centre and other children's groups, which, in effect, say that we need a fully accountable, robust, transparent and independent inquiry in order to deal with what went on previously and to put in place safeguards for children today and from here on in?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The Minister has been doing that. What disappoints me is the one-upmanship that Sinn Féin seems to be engaging in on this issue. From the start, when the Minister said that we needed to have a review, Sinn Féin sought to up it and said that we needed to have an inquiry; when the Minister said that we were going to have an expert-led, independent inquiry, Sinn Féin said, "How can we try to get another one over on the Minister?" From day one, the Minister has been to the fore in saying that we need to learn the lessons of what went wrong, that we need to ensure that what is happening now is best practice and that, where there have been failings, we need to be sure to redress them.

Since this Minister took up office, it has been a very proactive Minister who has been in charge. The Member who proposed the motion rightly highlighted the 2006 child protection inspection report, because it does go beyond Barnardo's. It was the DUP's Michelle McIlveen who picked that up and asked the questions to the then Health Minister, Michael McGimpsey, and who then brought forward a private Member's Bill. When Miss McIlveen was being put under pressure, the Minister, in response, told her that the approach being put forward by the consultation ran a very real risk of stigmatising children in care, particularly those who lived in residential children's homes. The Department briefed against Michelle McIlveen at that time, when she was the one, out of everybody in the Chamber, who was leading in trying to address the problem.

If, at that time, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety had been listening rather than trying to brief against people, vulnerable young people that otherwise were let down might have been protected. There are lessons that we need to learn from the mistakes that were clearly made.

The police have accepted that they failed to join all the dots. I cannot understand how we could have had that systemic failure in the police and that they looked at individual cases on their own without taking a more global approach. Should they be held to account for that? Yes, they should. I trust that the Policing Board will do that, because the Committee for Justice has already had the Chief Constable in front of it to answer questions.

However, we then asked about the resources that are going into the police now to deal with the investigation to protect children. Requests have been made for more detectives, and I trust that the Chief Constable will answer in the affirmative and provide those to the police, because they have requested them.

Roy Beggs rightly moved an amendment that all children need to be protected, and I agree with that. Early intervention is the key. Mr Beggs mentioned education, and I trust that the education authorities will step up. So far, the Department of Education has failed miserably when it comes to trying to protect vulnerable children. The Member for South Down shakes her head, yet —

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Will the Member take an intervention?

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

No, I will not.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

The Member is afraid to hear the truth here. He is protecting his Minister, and he is afraid to hear the truth.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order. The Member will resume her seat. It is clear that the Member is not taking an intervention. All other Members should remain quiet.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I trust that I will get an extra 20 seconds because the clock did not stop.

The Member for South Down shakes her head, yet it was on her watch that the I CAN centre in Ballynahinch for children with the most severe speech problems was closed down. She closed it down, and she should be ashamed for those vulnerable children. When the Shankill Road and Falls Road initiative to deal with vulnerable children who are truant from school was brought to the attention of the Department of Education, it walked away, and it was the Health Minister, Edwin Poots, who had to step in to try to protect those children on the Falls Road.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is up.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Let us get all the Departments that are engaged in this around the table, making sure that we are acting collectively to protect the most vulnerable in our society.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is up.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I support the motion and the amendment, and I will try to stick to the subject. In response to the previous contributor, this is not about one-upmanship but about the protection of children. We should all be very clear on that. This is not about scoring points but about dealing with an extremely serious and emotional subject.

There is an old cliché that is true, which is that the measure of any civilised society is how well it looks after its young people and its older people. Unfortunately, we appear not to be doing too well with either group, taking into account the issues around residential care and now this terrible business of child sexual exploitation involving children in care.

The Barnardo's report, 'Not a world away', was published in 2011. It contains some horrifying examples of what can happen to young people who are used for the purposes of child sexual exploitation. Many young people will not see themselves as victims and will therefore not want to be rescued from their abuser. There is an onus on professionals to consider the young people's views in the light of the wider context of personal and structural vulnerability.

It is accepted that many young people who have been sexually exploited can, as a result of their chaotic background and experiences of abuse, be difficult to work with and resistant to social work support. They can be abusive to workers and refuse to engage. It is therefore important that such behaviours are not misinterpreted as a young person not being in need or deserving of support.

Young people in care are not the only ones affected by the issue. It also applies to many other young people who are not in the care population. Some of those young people potentially have less support than children who are in care because of their family background, and so on. As my colleague Maeve McLaughlin stated, this issue came to light now because the PSNI initiated an internal review of missing persons, which led to the discovery of those cases.

The Minister announced separately that he had directed the Safeguarding Board:

"to undertake a thematic review of the cases that triggered the investigation in order to identify the learning from the management of those cases to inform and improve future practice."

The statement that was released by the Safeguarding Board, however, states that the direction from the Minister is:

"to conduct a thematic review into the recent cases".

There is some uncertainty as to what exactly the Safeguarding Board has been directed to do by the Minister. I am sure that he will clarify that particular issue.

As has been stated, the inquiry that is to be set up must be fully independent and equipped with all the necessary resources and powers. It must certainly look at the systems failures that have allowed the sexual exploitation to continue.

The Safeguarding Board also has an important part to play in this. However, where the inquiry is concerned, it may not be perceived to be wholly independent.

This whole issue of child sexual exploitation is a blight on our society. It must be dealt with in such a way that means that it ceases to continue. It is incumbent on the Minister to ensure that that happens.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

As a member of the Health Committee, I also welcome the opportunity to speak on this very important and timely matter. The protection of our children and young people must always be to the fore, and we must ensure that the exploitation of young people is brought to an end.

The recent findings are shocking. They create fear in us all, and we must take all appropriate action to prevent any further exploitation of our children and young people, whether they are in care homes or living at home in our communities.

I welcome the recent measures that the Health Minister, Edwin Poots, undertook. I commend him for taking swift action in announcing an independent expert-led inquiry into child sexual exploitation in Northern Ireland. That is an important measure that is correctly involving the Minister of Justice. It is right and proper that any review of policy addresses the current issues and the concerns about the protection of our children in care.

The Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland is an important body, and it certainly has played a useful role in safeguarding children and young people. The board quite rightly works to protect the most vulnerable by working in partnership with a wide range of agencies and organisations that work with young people. The only way to really combat this problem is to work in partnership. That should be the theme right from the top of the Executive, involving all Departments, right down to a grass-roots community level.

The PSNI also has a vital role to play in helping to bring those responsible to justice. It is essential that the perpetrators of any crime, not least sexual exploitation, are prosecuted to the full rigours of the law. I welcome the PSNI's investigations into this matter, and I trust that those investigations will help the victims and reduce the risk of further attacks or exploitation.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Given that there is no specific offence of child exploitation, if, when this piece of work is completed, it is suggested that new legislation is required to empower workers in residential homes and to prosecute those who carry out this offence, does the Member agree with me that the Justice Minister should bring it forward?

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

Yes. I commend the Member for his point. It is well made, and no doubt the Assembly would consider it and be supportive of it.

Any inquiry must be wide reaching and look right across society. The missing persons register, which the PSNI manages, requires improvements. Agencies tend to report missing persons to the PSNI and, therefore, feel that the responsibility for many of those young people is then transferred to the PSNI. However, we keep being told that the PSNI does not have the resources or the expertise to manage the risks of those involved.

Social media has become another factor and another way for young people to be more open to potential exploitation by evil sexual predators. I feel that more could be done to warn children and young people in care, in their homes and in our communities about the very real dangers of social media. Unfortunately, it is far too easy for false accounts to be set up that could lure vulnerable young people and children into a false sense of security that means that they could end up meeting with a total stranger whom they have never met and know nothing about. I believe that the relatively new risks of social media have created real dangers and the potential for the exploitation of our young people at all levels of society.

This is a very important issue, and we must do all that we can to tackle the problem and put the welfare of our children and young people to the forefront. I support the motion and commend the Minister for his actions to date. I trust that work will continue to resolve this terrible problem.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I welcome the debate on the motion. I will be supporting the motion and the amendment.

It would be valuable if colleagues were not to exploit the debate in partisan political terms, as doing so would be unhelpful. It would be useful to quote the Commissioner for Children and Young People, Patricia Lewsley-Mooney, who said last week:

"The immediate priority must be the children and young people who have been affected or are at risk of exploitation. They must be given the protection and support that they deserve so they are safe. While important, any reviews and lessons are a second priority. Any organisation releasing information or reporting on this must do it sensitively. The welfare of these young people must be at the forefront of their minds so as not to cause any further risk or distress. The victim must not be further victimised."

That is a salutary statement from the commissioner, and we should bear that in mind. We are trying to protect children; we are not engaged in a witch-hunt. We certainly want to find out the truth of what happened, and that is very important. Neither should there be adverse comments about the professionalism of those who work in very difficult circumstances and carry out a very important role in our society. We should support them as well.

It is disturbing that 22 children have been targeted in this way. It is disturbing that there are at least 50 suspects in this sexual exploitation of children, and there could well be more. This could be the tip of the iceberg, although I hope not. I hope that the investigations that will be carried out will be done so exhaustively, so that we have an accurate and truthful picture of what happened. That is absolutely essential.

During the joint Justice and Health Committee meeting, I was a little bit disturbed by some of the evidence, which related to children who were missing from care homes at least 137 times over about 18 months. It seemed to me that although procedures were in place for the monitoring and safeguarding of those children, if those children had been in an ordinary home — as we all have — they would probably not have gone missing. Parental authority would have been there to guide and protect the children and to keep them from leaving home. The Minister and the police emphasised the fact that care homes are not prisons, and that children should not be locked up. However, some balance has to be struck to safeguard the child so that there is not complete freedom to do whatever they want and, therefore, expose that vulnerable child to even more vulnerability. When the experts look at this situation, we will have to revisit the procedures in relation to children leaving the safety of a care home and going elsewhere. That is important.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I ask the Member to draw his remarks to a close.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I welcome the Minister's announcement of an inquiry along with the Department of Justice. That is a valuable step.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

There are few issues that stir the emotions as when we talk about children and young people, in this case vulnerable children and young people, and the exploitation that has been happening. We sometimes like to think of ourselves as a family orientated and family friendly society. That this happened and continues to happen in our society is a cause of huge concern.

I agree with colleagues who spoke of the need to do more. Most contributions, including that of Mr Maginness, were very much about where we go from here to ensure that this does not happen again, and how we can do our utmost to protect people, making sure that we are not doing so in a witch hunt. However, if there is evidence and people are brought before the courts, we will want to see prosecutions and people held accountable before the law. It is important that we do that in the context of how we prevent this in future. What roles do we need to undertake? What changes do we need to make? What choices do the Assembly and Ministers need to make?

I served on the Health Committee for nearly six years. One piece of legislation, before I left the Committee, related to setting up the Safeguarding Board. This is now a challenge to the board to make its mark on how it lifts the protections for our children and young people to a new level. There is no question of anything but unanimous support for the motion and amendment on such an important issue.

I have a couple of concerns, which I mention only as concerns on this occasion. The Assembly talked about resources being put into this. We are spending huge amounts of police time, money and resources to police a society that is divided by protests and parades, and counter-parades and protests. Whatever side of the argument you are on, whatever protest, society cannot continue to fund that sort of activity and still expect the Police Service to meet all the other needs, whether it is in child abuse, rural crime or community policing. Resources are limited. You have only to listen to Deputy Chief Constable Judith Gillespie, who said that we cannot continue to use resources on those areas and expect the police to be able to carry out their other functions.

I agree with Alban Maginness about the need to have children in proper family homes. That is why I still have a huge concern about why we have sat for four years and not progressed an adoption Bill. With one single issue, and I do not need to highlight what that issue is, we have, effectively, held up that adoption Bill and the change that it could make to children's and young people's lives.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for giving way. With regard to the issue that he has raised, there is an analogy by way of children at school. If a child is at school and he or she leaves school and plays truant, the school has a responsibility and does everything it can to get the child back. I think that it is necessary for us to focus on that type of analogy in order to improve procedures with regard to children in care homes.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I agree with Alban Maginness' point: we do need to do that. I will happily commend the efforts that Michelle McIlveen has made with regard to children going missing from the care system. However, at present, we do not seem to have the procedures that the Member, quite rightly, highlights. We need to get to that point. When someone is in the care system, that person is already in a vulnerable, difficult place in his or her life, never mind when he or she falls out of the system. No one seems to be following that up. It is an important point.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member must bring his remarks to a close.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am content to support the motion and the amendment.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Mitchel McLaughlin] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

1. asked the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the crisis within OFMDFM, which the deputy First Minister's party has spoken of in the media. (AQT 121/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I have been interviewed several times since coming back from the United States, and I have outlined my view that there are quite severe difficulties in relation to the events of recent times, not least the events over the past year, which has seen violence on the streets perpetrated, in the main, by elements within loyalism. I am on the public record as saying that it is my view that the activities of elements of the Orange Order, the PUP and the UVF in north Belfast are indistinguishable. I certainly think that that represents a real challenge to these institutions.

It is not the first time that these institutions have been challenged. There have been the killings of two soldiers in Antrim, Constables Stephen Carroll and Ronan Kerr, and prison officer David Black. I made some of the most forthright statements ever made by any republican leader in condemnation of those activities, effectively standing up against those who would try to plunge us back to the past.

So, I do think that serious questions have to be asked about the response of unionist leaders to the activities on the streets, particularly the incident in which 56 police officers were injured in a full-scale riot in Belfast city centre. I find that very, very disturbing. I find it particularly disturbing in the context of what appears to be a common view of many within unionism that members of the UVF, particularly in east Belfast, are up to their necks in criminality and violence.

I am particularly disturbed by the shooting of 24-year-old Jemma McGrath just a few days ago. I think that all of you know what I am talking about and that all of you know the allegations that are flying around the place — right, left and centre. I ask the question: if republicans were involved in that sort of activity, would we have the same silence that we have had from some Benches in the Assembly?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I remind the Minister of the two-minute rule.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The other aspect is the decision to pull the plug on the peace-building and conflict resolution centre, which I think is directly related to some of the activities that are happening on the street, and that deeply saddens me.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the deputy First Minister for his answer. He seems to cast all the blame on one side, but many would see this as simply competitive posturing between Sinn Féin and the DUP, which really does no favours whatsoever for Northern Ireland or the Assembly.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am not one who is inclined to posture. In fact, I think that I have made my particular contribution towards the stability of these institutions through some of the most testing and difficult times that they have seen. In reality, for me, it is about the commitment of all of us to stand by the agreements that we have made and to face down violent extremists, whether they be so-called dissident republicans or extreme loyalists. That is the test for the Assembly and the Executive. I think that, thus far, serious questions have to be asked about the commitment to stand by the PSNI, particularly in the context of the PSNI Chief Constable's comments today about his dismay at the failure of politics to support the police.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

2. asked the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to give an update on the developments at the Maze/Long Kesh site, given the recent withdrawal of support for the peace-building and reconciliation centre by the DUP. (AQT 122/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As everybody knows, the peace-building and conflict resolution centre is a Programme for Government commitment, and we have received a letter of offer of £18 million from the European Union to complete the project. The withdrawal of support by our partners in government is deeply disappointing. The combined efforts of the Ulster Unionist Party, supported by extreme loyalists, in mounting a campaign against the peace-building and conflict resolution centre were deplorable.

The inability to honour a Programme for Government commitment has created very significant difficulties for me as deputy First Minister. I always wanted the peace-building and conflict resolution centre to be a shrine to peace and a symbol of a new future that opened up space for dialogue and true reconciliation between our people. It was the jewel in the crown of the Maze/Long Kesh (MLK) site and would, undoubtedly, be a tourist Mecca. The EU had earmarked the site as its centre of excellence for conflict resolution and peace-building activities, and it saddens me that agreements have not been honoured and that extremes of unionism have shifted the direction of the DUP. In that context, it is essential that we find remedies to the problem that we face. We have to find a way to honour the agreements made, and I am also conscious that the peace-building and conflict resolution centre is part of a wider agreement.

The Royal Ulster Agricultural Society (RUAS) moved on to that site last year and had a very successful show, and I intend to honour its courageous lead in recognising the incredible potential of the site. In September last year, we set up the MLK development corporation to oversee investment on the site. So the decision to withdraw support for constructing the peace-building and conflict resolution centre as agreed has jeopardised the future of the site as a whole. I am very content that the RUAS continues next year on the same basis as this year. However, the anticipated development of the site can proceed only on the basis of the honouring of the commitments made. The role of the development corporation and the board —

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Minister, you have to adhere to the two-minute rule.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

— has been undermined and called into question, and no further —

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I call Alex Maskey for a supplementary question.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

No further development will take place until this is satisfactorily resolved.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

If we obey Standing Orders and the Business Committee's guidance, we will give as many people as possible an opportunity to contribute. Ministers have two minutes to respond, and supplementaries have to be questions — the previous one was not.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the deputy First Minister for his very frank response. Will he clarify what he means by the issue being "satisfactorily resolved"?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said in my initial answer, there is a very clear commitment in the Programme for Government to build the peace-building and conflict resolution centre. Daniel Libeskind, a world-renowned architect, has been over here on countless occasions working with the people who had the responsibility to put the design in place. Daniel Libeskind has experience of difficulties with some of his buildings, particularly the construction of the new Jewish memorial museum in Berlin. From my perspective, and recognising the importance of the site strategically for employment prospects and the fact that it represents probably the prime area of potential real estate in the whole of western Europe, there is a huge responsibility on all of us to ensure that the initial commitments are honoured and that the peace-building and conflict resolution centre is built on that site for the benefit of all our people.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

3. asked the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister what representations the deputy First Minister has made to senior American figures on behalf of the undocumented, given that in answer to my question last week, the First Minister said that it was really up to the Irish Government to look after Irish passport holders, even though, as we all know, many people in the North exercise dual citizenship and the undocumented are from both communities. (AQT 123/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

This is an issue that has exercised SDLP and Sinn Féin Members in particular, given that many of them are being lobbied consistently by families who, on occasions, have very difficult circumstances as a result of the inability of undocumented people to travel back home for things such as funerals, weddings, baptisms and so forth; even for all-Ireland hurling and Gaelic football finals, which are close to the heart of many in Irish America.

Every time that I go to the United States, I contribute to that debate. I speak to people on Capitol Hill, and I am encouraged by the recent decision by the Senate to effectively propel the debate forward to the House of Representatives. I hope that the outcome of that will be to deal satisfactorily with the plight of many of the undocumented. Quite clearly, they come from right across the community, and we have a duty and responsibility to try to alleviate hardship, wherever it exists, particularly in the context of how it affects our own people.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Thank you, Minister. I also welcome the bipartisan approach of the Republicans and Democrats in America. Can the Minister assure me that he will make representations at the highest level in the House of Representatives to ensure that this is brought to a vote as soon as possible?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It has been raised consistently and will continue to be raised. All of us are conscious that, when we talk about the undocumented Irish, the resolution of that issue is not just about how you resolve the difficulties relating to the island of Ireland, North or South. This is about many millions more people from different ethnic groups, particularly from Central America and South America. So, it is a huge issue, and I certainly hope that the deliberations taking place at the minute on Capitol Hill can lead to a resolution of the difficulties presented for people.

On my last visit to the United States, I ran, accidentally, into a man who had been undocumented for the past 12 years. He employs 100 people in the United States of America. That is the scale of what we are dealing with. These people are contributing to society and to providing employment for many others in society. There is a desperate need to resolve their plight as quickly as possible.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

4. asked the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, following the deputy First Minister's recent visit to Warrington, whether, apart from pious platitudes, the deputy First Minister has, at any time, from his inside knowledge gained through his position of leadership in the republican movement, done anything to help the police to catch the child killers of Warrington, the Birmingham bombers or, indeed, the perpetrators of any other crime such as that. (AQT 124/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I was pleased and delighted to go to Warrington, at the invitation of Colin and Wendy Parry — two people who I have known for the past 10 or 11 years; people who have made an enormous contribution to the peace process. I think that they have been asked questions similar to those posed to me today. They have answered them in their own way, particularly stressing, on every occasion, that all they want to do is to contribute to the ongoing success of the peace process.

I do not have any personal knowledge whatsoever about the individuals who were involved in either the events in Warrington or Birmingham. That obviously brings us into a big debate about how we deal with the past. Of course, that responsibility has been given now to Richard Haass, who will deliberate on these matters in conjunction with the panel of parties over the course of the next couple of months, and I hope that there will be a resolution to that.

It is quite a regular occurrence for the Member to portray himself as a paragon of virtue and say that he is anti-conflict and anti-violence, so it was interesting to see him standing with leading members of the UVF at a recent demonstration in north Belfast. He was not in the least shamefaced about it.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

That ends topical questions. We now move on to OFMDFM questions for oral answer.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

1. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the projects being taken forward as part of the signature programmes under Delivering Social Change. (AQO 4645/11-15)

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

8. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the signature programmes under Delivering Social Change. (AQO 4652/11-15)

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

12. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the six signature programmes under Delivering Social Change, announced in October 2012. (AQO 4656/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I ask junior Minister McCann to answer the question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 1, 8 and 12 together.

Work on the implementation of the six Delivering Social Change signature programmes that were announced by the First Minister and the deputy First Minister on 10 October 2012 is progressing well. The Department of Education is leading on the signature programme to improve literacy and numeracy levels in both primary and post-primary schools. It expects to have concluded the recruitment of all teachers by the end of October. They will deliver tuition to children in 267 primary and post-primary schools to assist them in achieving higher grades.

The family support hubs programme will see 16 existing family support hubs receive continued support and 10 new family support hubs established. It is anticipated that all 10 new hubs will be online by April 2014; indeed, three are already operating in the Northern Trust area.

On the support for parents signature programme, a suite of programmes has been developed, and, through those programmes, guidance, training and information will be provided for up to 1,200 families. By way of the social enterprise hub programme, 11 hubs will be established in what are currently vacant commercial premises and will offer a range of business advice and practical support to social enterprise entrepreneurs.

Good progress has been made, and all hubs are due to be established by January 2014. In line with the objectives of the nurture units signature programme, 20 teachers and 20 classroom assistants have been recruited. The nurture units are now in place for the 2013-14 academic year. It is anticipated that 480 children and their families will benefit from the units.

The sixth and final signature programme will see the scaling up and rolling out of a pilot intervention to support young people not in education, employment or training (NEET) and their families. From October, the pilot intervention that targeted 44 families in urban and rural areas is being replicated to reach up to 720 disadvantaged families. Further details on specific aspects of each of the signature programmes should be sought directly from the lead Departments.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I call Mr William Irwin. Sorry, I call Mr Beggs. I beg your pardon.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the junior Minister for her response, but the family support hubs were announced over a year ago. Why has it taken so long to bring that additional support to families and why will it take a further year to have them all on the ground?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As the Member said, the hubs were announced last year, but work has been ongoing. First, we had to work together to find out where the families that needed to utilise the hubs were, and then we had to see where the hubs would be put. Some are virtual and some are hubs in themselves, so work had to be done on that. We wanted to ensure that the families who needed the support and the services were the ones receiving them, so we had to be careful in how the programme was rolled out.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I understand that the leases for the majority of hubs will be signed in October. Can the junior Minister confirm that?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I can, and I said that in my answer. There are already three hubs up and running at the moment, while 10 new hubs will be online by April 2014. The three that are already running are in the Northern Trust area, and a suite of programmes has been developed whereby the parenting programmes will happen in those hubs as well.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I call Mr Sean Rogers.

Moving on, I call John Dallat.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Given the delay in getting that all off the ground, is it premature of me to ask whether the Department has developed any further programmes and initiatives as highlighted in the children and young persons' early action paper?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The early actions paper that you mention identifies the needs of children and families specifically. There is a Programme for Government commitment to deliver a range of measures to tackle poverty and social exclusion. Delivering Social Change is the framework that we hope to do that in. There is also the 10-year strategy. Obviously, Delivering Social Change is about trying to unify all that. Although it is a framework, we are trying to put a focus on specific departmental spending. We have identified some of the other future programmes from the early actions paper. In due course, I will let the Member know where that is going as well.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the junior Minister for her answers. Will she tell us how much of the £26 million that was allocated for that purpose has been spent to date on the projects that she mentioned?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I cannot give you the exact spending, but a number of projects were to be rolled out under that £26 million. One was tuition with the Education Department and another was the hubs that I just mentioned with the health and parenting programmes. Another was the social economy hubs, and the last was pathways to employment. Some money has been spent on scoping out where those particular services will be put. I do not have the exact figure, but I will get it for the Member. The work has progressed, particularly on the education side of it, in that the teachers will be in place in this academic year for those young children who need that help and tuition for better educational attainment.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

2. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for their assessment of the need for robust accountability mechanisms in order to address the past. (AQO 4646/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We all recognise the need for a robust mechanism for addressing the past. A panel of parties, chaired by Dr Richard Haass, has now begun its work to consider parades and protests, flags and emblems, and the past. The panel is expected to conclude its work by December. I think that we are all agreed that, although these are all difficult issues, dealing with the past will present the greatest challenges. There is also work going on in the victims' forum, whereby a working group is looking at that very issue. Those are victims from a diverse range of backgrounds who are examining their shared experience of dealing with and acknowledging the past. The group will advise the Victims' Commissioner, who will then present us, as Ministers, with her findings. I look forward to receiving that advice, which we will consider in advancing our work in that area.

The work of the Historical Enquiries Team (HET), while falling under the remit of the Minister of Justice, is also an issue of interest and importance to us all. We have a role to play in ensuring that any concerns about its operation and remit are resolved. In that respect, it is important that any organisation dealing with the issue, including the HET, is credible and effective. It must also be viewed as impartial, and it must have the public's full confidence.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

When, in topical questions, the deputy First Minister referred to a commitment of all of us to what had been agreed, I think that many of us were thinking of the family of Columba McVeigh, which today said that people still have information on his whereabouts but are not forthcoming. Does the deputy First Minister agree that the essential architecture of the Eames/Bradley group offers a comprehensive way forward to address the past? Does he believe that, as part of that, those who were in command and control of and directed state organisations and terror groups and who are responsible for the horror of the past 40 years should be held personally to account?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I, too, have tremendous sympathy for the McVeigh family in their efforts to recover Columba's body. I have met the McVeighs on a number of occasions over recent years. Every Member will know that Gerry Adams in particular has been very proactive, resulting in the recovery of a number of bodies through information provided. That work has to continue, and I appeal to everybody who has any scrap of information about any of the remaining cases that need to be resolved to bring that forward.

No doubt, there were many laudable suggestions from what Bishop Eames and Denis Bradley proffered for all of us. Of course, we know that there was significant opposition among some political parties to Eames/Bradley. All of this will be considered very seriously in the context of the Haass talks and, no doubt, all the parties in this House will have their opportunity to contribute to that. Recovering the truth about the past is very important, not only from those who were involved in military organisations but from those who were in positions of political leadership who gave wholehearted support to military organisations. Indeed, some of those people were in government.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

What about those in the army council? What about them?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Order, order.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat. Does the deputy First Minister agree with the views of people who say that dealing with the past is too difficult and that the Haass talks will not find a solution?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We all know that dealing with the past is an incredibly difficult issue, and I do not accept that the Haass talks cannot find a solution. However, if we are to find a solution, there has to be a generosity of spirit. Our past is contested because of different experiences, and, when I hear phrases such as, "We will not allow a rewriting of history", it immediately makes me think that someone has decided that they own the past and that they are seeking to enforce their view of it on the rest of us. That approach will not work. Of course, recently, at the annual peace lecture in Warrington, I made it clear that the past cannot be undone and that we all have to recognise our role in the conflict.

The challenge for all of us is to ensure that there can never be a repeat of what went before. Despite all our difficulties, dialogue and not coercion are at the centre of our relationships on these islands. I approach the Haass talks as I approach everything else in my political life, and that is with the belief that resolutions of these difficult issues are doable and that it is workable. I absolutely do believe that, if there is a goodwill from all the participants, a solution can be found.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Most people view the Haass team's examination of the past as its most difficult assignment, but will the deputy First Minister take this opportunity to expand further than he did when he was on the stand at the Saville inquiry, when he pleaded the fifth amendment regarding declaring and opening up about his grim and grisly past?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That is not the first time that I have heard that question posed. I remind the Member and everybody else in this House that I sat in the witness box for two days at the Saville tribunal in Derry's Guildhall and allowed myself to be questioned. I answered honestly all the questions that I was asked. What is most significant about the outcome of the Saville tribunal is that Saville accepted every single thing that I said as the truth in finding against the Parachute Regiment and the British Army. Saville accepted not only every single thing that I said but that which other young men like me who were involved in the IRA in the city at that time said. That totally undermines what you just said.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

During the deputy First Minister's evidence to Saville, there were questions that he told Lord Saville that he would not answer "under any circumstances". Is that still the case? How does he expect us to get to the truth when there are people who hold the truth but will not reveal it under any circumstances?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I remind the Member again that the Saville tribunal was a very lengthy and hugely significant tribunal. It was probably the longest in legal history. The outcome of the tribunal, as identified by Lord Saville and his colleagues in their judgement, found totally and absolutely against the Parachute Regiment — [Interruption.]

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Order.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

And, in the course of outlining his judgement, he totally and absolutely exonerated the IRA in Derry from any involvement whatsoever in the events of Bloody Sunday. [Interruption.] I know that you and others find that hard to accept.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

3. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what additional measures they intend to bring forward to fight child poverty. (AQO 4647/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, junior Minister McCann will answer this question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The work taken forward under the Delivering Social Change framework, as I mentioned earlier, focuses on the needs of children and families. The Member will know that child poverty cannot be seen in isolation as just affecting the child; the family has to be taken into consideration as well. To ensure that the most urgent and significant problems in our society are addressed, including deprivation, social exclusion and disadvantage, the six signature programmes that I mentioned earlier will contribute to the delivery of the child poverty strategy. We are keen that further programmes are identified as part of a rolling programme of initiatives.

We are currently considering a range of possible future signature programmes for a second phase of the work to be taken forward. That may include the development of further interventions to specifically tackle child poverty. Our Department has also commissioned work by the National Children's Bureau to develop a child poverty outcomes model to help better understand the role of each Department in addressing child poverty. The National Children's Bureau is assisting Departments to establish a cross-governmental approach in which every Department would understand its role in reducing child poverty and make an effective contribution to improving outcomes.

The model, based on the key principles of outcomes-based accountability, is designed to allow assessment of which interventions are likely to produce the best outcomes over the long term and assess the impact of mainstream programmes already in place. The model, which has a track record of delivering improvements in outcomes, will be published shortly. The work on the outcomes model will also help to address and inform the third annual report on the delivery of the child poverty strategy, which is scheduled to be laid before the Assembly on March 2014.

The Child Poverty Act 2010 required the Executive to publish a child poverty strategy and measure how departmental actions impact on the numbers of children living in poverty. The Act details four statutory measures against which progress has to be measured and reported on annually. The overall target is the eradication of child poverty by 2020. We are pleased with the progress made and look forward to further progress in line with our commitments in the Programme for Government.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the junior Minister for her response. Does she not agree that what is most worrying in recent reports is the persistent level of poverty among families and children, as she pointed out? What specific, direct measures is the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister going to take to make a difference in those areas where there is the long-term poverty that we all know exists in all of our communities?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member makes a valid point. Research has shown that there is persistent poverty in particular families. The 'Children and Young Persons Early Action Document' identified where we need to focus on tackling that "generational poverty", which is another term for it. Some of the added measures we are taking — for instance, the child poverty outcomes model that I mentioned — will look at the outcomes instead of just measuring against outputs, which is what normally would have happened. I think that we can see, tangibly, the difference we are making as we go along.

Last week, junior Minister Bell and I launched the Bright Start, part of the framework of the childcare strategy. Within that there are a number of measures looking particularly at rural childcare, childcare for children with disabilities and creating new childcare places in areas of disadvantage and need. That all adds to new measures that were taken to try to actually deal with child poverty.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I welcome the publication of the Executive framework for childcare. How concerned is the junior Minister that an early years organisation in Northern Ireland has assessed that childcare provision is as much as 10 years behind European standards?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

We had a long consultation process when we first went out with the framework document. The gaps that we identified were for school-age children between the ages of four and 14, children with disabilities and rural childcare. So, we did have quite a lengthy consultation around that. There are 15 key actions in the childcare strategy that we are looking to put in place. Over the next 12 months, we hope to review the performance on those 15 actions, because, while you say that we may be behind in our delivery on childcare, we are very keen to get it right this time. We are trying to create new childcare places where they are needed, and, as we go on, we will try to measure and evaluate, as I said earlier, the outcomes of that as opposed to the outputs.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

I thank the junior Minister for her answers so far on this important subject. Will she detail what investigations have been carried out by the deputy First Minister's Department to assess the impact on child poverty potentially arising from the Minister for Social Development's proposals to reform the welfare system?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will be aware that there is deep concern that child poverty is on the rise and that the proposed welfare reforms — I know that you are a member of that Committee — will make child poverty and family poverty even worse. We have been looking at that. I have met a number of organisations, including the Child Poverty Alliance and others that represent families. We are looking particularly at issues around universal benefits; for instance, that the person getting paid those benefits would be the prime carer of the child in the household, that payments of benefits are more frequent, and the bedroom tax. Those are all going to have a knock-on effect on child poverty and family poverty in general. At the moment, those are the types of issues that we are looking at.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

I concur with the previous questioner on the concerns about the impact of welfare reform. Does the junior Minister agree that in-work poverty is a significant element of child poverty? Will her office, in that regard, support a living wage in public procurement contracts at the Executive?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The short answer is yes. Public procurement is something that we have discussed in the Assembly on a number of occasions, and I know that different Members have strong views about the way that we deliver good services. In the public procurement framework, we are looking to tackle disadvantage and best serve the needs of our communities. For instance, we need to ensure that the childcare strategy, which we launched part of last week, looks at building childcare delivery mechanisms in and around the social economy sector. That means that it will employ local people and regenerate local communities, because those childcare services are very much based in the community. Certainly, procurement is one issue that we will be looking at.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

4. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the benefits that their recent visit to the United States will bring to the local economy. (AQO 4648/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The First Minister and I travelled to New York city on Monday 9 September to undertake a number of engagements to promote the local business message in advance of the economic conference that will take place here on 10 and 11 October. Therefore, one of the main benefits of our visit will be increased US participation in the conference. We also had the opportunity to consolidate relationships with existing investors, who are our greatest advocates in encouraging others to follow in their footsteps.

We began our mission by meeting senior executives at Citigroup. It came here in 2004 with an original plan to create 375 jobs by 2009. The company now employs in excess of 1,200, and the Belfast facility is one of only four centres of excellence in the world. We also met Duncan Niederauer, who is CEO of the New York Stock Exchange. Like Citigroup, the New York Stock Exchange is an internationally recognised blue chip company. Both companies confirmed that they would act as advocates on our behalf at the October conference. We also met Mayor Bloomberg at City Hall, where we discussed the conference. We spent Wednesday morning travelling outside the city to meet a potential investor. On Thursday, we were guests at the World Trade Center memorial, where we met Marcus Robinson, who is a Belfast-based award-winning documentary film-maker. We also met Larry Silverstein, who is the New York real estate developer who has transformed the World Trade Center site into what it is today. We visited Brooklyn Navy Yard to meet executives at Steiner Studios to look at opportunities to promote film production here, and we attended the Wall Street 50 event on Thursday evening, where we addressed an audience of 250 financial services executives.

In summary, the visit allowed us to extend the invitation to attend the economic conference to a wide range of business executives. Furthermore, it provided an opportunity to strengthen relationships with existing investors and to begin relationships with potential new ones. All in all, it was an extremely successful visit.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I thank the deputy First Minister for his response. Will he advise what steps are being taken to ensure that these benefits will be realised throughout all parts of Northern Ireland and that places such as my constituency of West Tyrone, which is a rural area, will be a beneficiary of this trip?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There is a huge responsibility on Invest NI, working with potential investors, to ensure that there is, as far as is practicable, foreign direct investment. However, people have to bear it in mind that large companies make their own decisions about what they think is best for them. Invest is conscious of the point that the Member has made not just in relation to his constituency, as similar appeals have come from MLAs in other constituencies. Invest NI is conscious of the arguments and is doing everything in its power to ensure as equal a distribution of jobs as possible.

This was an extremely important and successful visit, and we look forward to addressing the House in the coming months with news of new inward investments that were supported by our intervention. The duty then falls on Invest, and I am sure that it will take on board the comments that the Member for West Tyrone and other Members have made consistently over recent times.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat. Gabhaim buíochas leis an LeasChéad-Aire as ucht an fhreagra sin. Will the deputy First Minister elaborate on his view of the importance of American investment at this time, especially in the current economic situation?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It is hugely important. The First Minister and I travel regularly to the United States, and I can say without fear of contradiction that our travels there over the past couple of years, particularly at a time of world economic recession, have produced remarkable results for inward investment for our people and for jobs. We are all conscious that America remains our largest source of investment, and we have a long history of US investment. There are something like 165 US-owned companies here, and they employ in the region of 19,000 people. I am absolutely convinced that there will be more very positive announcements in the next short while. Naturally, I hope that the economic investment conference will be the success that we expect it to be.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

We will start with topical questions. The first Member on the list, Mrs Dolores Kelly, has withdrawn her name, so I call Mr Michael McGimpsey.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

2. asked the Minister for Regional Development, given the long-running saga of the provision of residents’ parking schemes in inner south Belfast, specifically at Stranmillis, the Markets, Sandy Row and Donegall Pass, what progress has been made to allow us to give an undertaking to those residents and communities about such a provision. (AQT 132/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his question and pay tribute to him for his ongoing interest in the matter. He has taken the opportunity to meet me along with interested groups from areas around his constituency. Unfortunately, it has not yet been possible to implement a scheme in any of those areas, but I hope that we will continue to work to resolve outstanding issues and ensure that a scheme can be introduced. The schemes, once established in one area, have the potential to be enacted in other areas. I am aware of interest in other places where people want to see progress. I am keen that there is progress, and I know that the Member is, too.

Michael McGimpsey (UUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his answer. There seems to be some optimism there. Bear in mind that we began this about 10 years ago when John Spellar was a direct rule Minister. Roads Service appears to have fought a very valiant fight for the provision of these schemes. Conditions have deteriorated since the advent of Belfast on the Move, and parking in these areas is absolutely dire. This is critical for these communities. Given that the last consultation finished a few weeks ago, can the Minister give an assurance that we are on the cusp of getting this provision?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member and accept his frustration — it is equally frustrating for me. As he rightly says, this has been going on for years, way before my tenure as Minister. Nonetheless, I, as Minister, am keen for the schemes to advance. I will reflect again on the situation in the areas that he has referred to and see whether progress can be made at the earliest stage.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

Can the Minister tell the House the cost to date of the vesting of land for the A5?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his question. The Member raised the issue of the A5 in topical questions last time, so it clearly remains topical for him. The answer is largely the same: approximately £60 million has been expended on the A5 project to date. As the Member well knows, the project is delayed for very well rehearsed reasons that he, the House and the Executive have heard before. However, it is delayed but not abandoned, and he will know that it is an Executive priority.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I have spoken to farmers who have lost the use of land and buildings for over a year now. Not only have they not received any compensation but no one has come near them to assess the losses incurred. Is that acceptable? When can those farmers expect payment?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member. I need to challenge some of his assertions. There has been ongoing contact with landowners. Decisions have been made and agreed on whether landowners will carry out existing accommodation works in the situation in which we find ourselves. I am certainly aware that a number of landowners who had applied for up to 90% of compensation for loss of land in the A5 scheme have received their compensation. It remains a very fluid situation and, in many ways, a challenging one, given the legal and financial difficulties. We are working our way through it, but I do not accept that Roads Service or my Department have in any way been unhelpful to resolving issues by mutual agreement with landowners in the current situation.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

4. asked the Minister for Regional Development, following a previous question of mine in relation to street lighting in residential areas to the rear of properties whether he can tell the House exactly when that policy was changed. (AQT 134/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

My understanding is that that policy was changed a number of years ago. Certainly, the change predated my time, and it may even have predated devolution in this place. I understand the Member's point, but the policy is in place, and, currently, I have no plans to have it reviewed. A number of Members have written to me particularly on the issues of new lighting schemes and where old lights are being made redundant. I have sympathy for the position that many people find themselves in, but the policy is such that I am not able to show the flexibility that perhaps the Member would like me to and which I may like to show too.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

Given that you are Minister and, I am sure, have the power to review any policy, are you suggesting that it is acceptable that, where street lighting is being upgraded, people are now left in fear, particularly at this time of year with winter and the dark nights drawing in? These people have, in the past, enjoyed street lighting. The Minister should consult his Department because a departmental official told me that the policy had changed only within the last number of months, and hence those street lights have been removed. Maybe it would be a better use of money than the £60 million that has been squandered on the A5 road scheme.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. As a Minister, you are not allowed simply to conjure up changes in policy without proper consultation and adherence to all the section 75 and other equality issues. I understand the Member's point. He seemed to make a reference, at the end, to the A5 project: I remind the Member that his party is fully supportive, at Executive level, of the A5 scheme.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

5. asked the Minister for Regional Development whether, given the difficult economic environment in which our businesses are operating, he agrees that his Department has a role to play in supporting initiatives run by local traders’ associations that promote shopping locally. (AQT 135/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for her question. Indeed, as a member of the Executive and someone in charge of a Department, I believe that every effort should be made to continue to support the local economy and traders. We all know how difficult trading has been in town and city centres. Last week, I was in the Ballyhackamore area in the Member's constituency, and I took the opportunity to speak with traders and to learn at first hand some of the problems that they are experiencing. Most of their concerns related to the high cost of rates, which is a matter for the Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP). Nevertheless, I take on board their concerns, and the Member knows that what I have tried to do as Minister in respect of parking was not to implement on-street car parking charges. Indeed, I have successfully argued at Executive level for a moratorium on increases in car parking charges until at least 2015.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his answer and his support for small businesses. Can the Minister explain the rationale that his Department used, which seemingly, targeted the honest, hard-working business owners of the Ballyhackamore traders' association, when it requested that the association remove its "Eat, Shop, Live" banners from street furniture, while allowing tattered flags, which surely distract from business opportunities, to remain on the same lamp posts?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for her supplementary question, but I am not sure that the Alliance Party is in a particularly strong position to criticise anybody, given the flags protest, which came about as a result of its decision at Belfast City Hall, and the problems that emerged from that. Therefore, I am afraid that I am not going to take lectures on flags from the Alliance Party.

Street furniture is an issue. There are issues of public safety that have to be adhered to, and the Member should recognise that. Some discretion and flexibility can be arrived at, and we are happy to facilitate that. I felt that I had a very productive meeting with the traders of Ballyhackamore last week. The Member was not present at that meeting, and I do not know the readout that she has got from that meeting. Nevertheless, I heard at first hand the issues that were raised, and I was encouraged. I was also encouraged to see the economic activity in Ballyhackamore.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

6. asked the Minister for Regional Development for an update on the possibility of bringing forward the construction of road improvements at the A7 at Doran’s Rock just outside Saintfield. (AQT 136/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for her question. How topical it is I am not entirely sure, but it is clearly topical in Doran's Rock.

I think that I have discussed with Members, certainly in response to questions, the possibility of bringing forward a clutch of road improvement schemes that would make a significant contribution to and give a lot of relief to the travelling public in key areas. The scheme that she mentioned could fall into that.

I had discussions with the Finance Minister recently. I want to pursue those and encourage him that a line in a budget can be created whereby we can bring forward those schemes, because sometimes the big, grandiose schemes, while important, can encounter difficulties, be they legal or financial. On the ground, people would be much more impressed by the work of the Assembly and the Executive if we were able to create road improvements that people could see were improving their area.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

Obviously, the inclusion of the A7 in the October monitoring round would be very helpful. Without providing the specifics of the scheme, can he give me any information on the A24 Ballynahinch bypass?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member. We have moved rather deftly from Doran's Rock to the Ballynahinch bypass. I have no difficulty in saying that the Ballynahinch bypass is a scheme worthy of support. In fact, my party leader, Mike Nesbitt, who is also a Member for Strangford, has been keen to promote that scheme. As the Member will know, I have met traders and local representatives in Ballynahinch. We understand the issues that are prevalent there. There are still a number of stages to be gone through on the technical side of things, leading ultimately to procurement, so it is likely that the earliest time for the scheme would be in the new budgetary period.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

7. asked the Minister for Regional Development why his Department has allowed documentation from the commissioner, which could help to decide compensation levels for the A2 and the A8, to be destroyed. (AQT 137/11-15)

I welcome the progress on the two road schemes in east Antrim, the A2 and the A8, but there are many people who still are unhappy with the way in which the Department deals with some of the compensation issues.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his question and, obviously, for his support for the A2 and A8 schemes. They will substantially improve travelling times and the connectivity that is so necessary. The Member has raised a particular issue, and, if he wishes to write to me directly with the detail, I will be happy to give him a full and detailed explanation.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I am afraid that the time for topical questions is up. We will move to the questions for oral answer that have been listed for the Minister. Question 6 has been withdrawn.

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

1. asked the Minister for Regional Development if his Department has recently inspected the roads, footways and street lighting at Blackrock Square and Blackrock Park Avenue, Newtownabbey. (AQO 4660/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

My officials carried out an inspection on all the development in that area on 18 September 2013. Since being served with an article 11 enforcement notice, the developer has made significant progress. First, a closed-circuit television (CCTV) survey of the sewers has been completed within phases 1 to 3, and the results are expected to be with NI Water representatives shortly, confirming that repairs have been made. In addition, the Department has approved in principle the street lighting design, and officials await further technical documentation from the developer in the next few weeks to allow adoption of the street lighting to proceed. When all underground services are adopted, a final surface course will be placed, allowing the Blackrock development to be adopted.

Officials in my Department work continually with developers so that developments are brought up to the required standard for adoption. I advise the Member that, in the greater Belfast area, which comprises the Belfast, Carrickfergus, Castlereagh, Lisburn, Newtownabbey and North Down council areas, my Department has adopted 33 sites in the period 1 April to 20 September 2013. Four of those involved article 11 enforcement works by my Department.

Pam Brown (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I raised the issue with him back in May, and I appreciate the work that his Department has done on this case. A date in early July was estimated for completion of the streets, yet they remain unfinished. Will he provide assurances to the residents of Blackrock that he will continue to pressure the developer on this matter?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for her supplementary question. Of course, Roads Service officials have worked hard to progress this, and I am confident that that will continue to be the case.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I assure the House that I have not moved my abode to Newtownabbey. My question is about the effectiveness of inspections in reducing the millions of pounds in compensation claims that, prior to Mr Kennedy's appointment, the Department paid out.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I am afraid to say that I am not going to take responsibility for events that predate me, and the Member will know that. However, if there are any current issues that he wishes to raise with me, I am happy to hear from him.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

2. asked the Minister for Regional Development what action he is taking to allay the concerns of residents and business owners following the revelation that Johnston's Bridge, Enniskillen, has failed a European strength test. (AQO 4661/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am aware of the recent media attention suggesting that the Johnston Bridges over the east channel of the Erne river, which runs through Enniskillen, had failed a recent European strength test. I confirm that there is no such thing as a European strength test, nor is my Department aware of the source of such a claim.

The Johnston Bridges, like all bridges in Northern Ireland, are subject to a regular programme of inspections every two years. A more detailed inspection is carried out every six years in which structural engineers closely inspect all parts of the structure. The most recent inspection, undertaken in July 2012, did not highlight any evidence that would cause concern about the load-bearing capacity of the bridge or the continued use of the bridges by vehicular traffic. The bridges, which were opened in 1954, will, however, require some minor repair works to ensure that their condition is preserved. Officials will continue to monitor all bridges, including the Johnston's Bridges, and will work to progress the bridge-strengthening programme.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for that clarity and for the history lesson, which, I am sure, we all really enjoyed.

I hope that the Minister is not splitting hairs by taking umbrage at my use of the phrase "European strength test". Is he in a position to clarify that Johnston's Bridge has not failed any kind of a test in the past few months?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member. I had hoped that I had outlined to him that Johnston's Bridge is not regarded as being under serious threat nor an unsafe structure. That is very good news, and it is important that we convey that message, particularly to people in Enniskillen and County Fermanagh. Of course, they will remain on our rolling list for repairs, but I am assured there is nothing of an unsafe nature about the Johnston Bridges that warrants immediate remedial work.

The Member should bear it in mind that my Department has to look after 5,800 bridges. I am pleased to say that we do that on an ongoing basis and work hard to ensure that they are looked after. Safety has to be the paramount concern.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I want to ask the Minister about a bridge in Newtownstewart that certainly has failed the test. We are waiting for it to be upgraded and refurbished. I also welcome the work that has been carried out by Roads Service on bridges in Beragh, Victoria Bridge and, more recently, a stone bridge at Mountjoy.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his detailed knowledge of and guide to bridges in west Tyrone and other areas. I am pleased that work to secure and maintain bridges has been happening. Of course, if the Member has further concerns about any of the bridges he mentioned or any others, he should communicate those to the Department as quickly as possible.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I will bring it back to Johnston's Bridge in Enniskillen. The Minister mentioned that it is part of a rolling programme of bridge upgrades and maintenance. Will he give us an indication of the timescale for the work on Johnston's Bridge?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. We certainly expect that work to commence within a couple of years. My sense is that the road surface and the deck waterproofing is likely to need replaced at some point. Of course, the bridge plays an important role in the life of Enniskillen, and it will be important to carefully manage the programming of that work so as to minimise any disruption to traffic flows. My information is that the earliest that that work is scheduled to be carried out is 2014-15. However, it is more likely that it will be the year after.

By way of record, in January 1999, 955 bridges required strengthening, but, because of the ongoing programme of work — the rolling programme that I referred to — that figure has now been reduced significantly to something like 283. We have spent £85 million to achieve that, and that indicates that we continue to take these things seriously.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Mr Mervyn Storey is not in his place.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

4. asked the Minister for Regional Development for an update on the Kinnegar Lagoons sewage works improvement scheme. (AQO 4663/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I have been advised by Northern Ireland Water that the first phase of the £3·5 million project to resolve the sewerage pollution at Kinnegar Lagoons is progressing well. The project is at tender stage, and work is expected to commence in spring 2014 with a construction period of approximately 12 months. That phase of the project will prevent further pollution to the lagoons. A second phase will involve a scientific investigation that will determine the best remediation options for the lagoons and, particularly, for the odours that emanate from the mud at low tide. Remedial work will be undertaken on the basis of the scientific recommendations. The investigation is under way, and it is estimated that the emerging findings will be available in spring 2014.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does the Minister recognise that the ongoing stink and environmental pollution, which have been experienced by Holywood residents and commuters on the A2 Bangor dual carriageway in particular for over 20 years, are totally unacceptable? Will the measures that are now proposed give us assurance that they will address the matter once and for all?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question. I can well imagine the frustration and anger felt by a great many householders and business owners who live close by. The Member knows that this has been a historical problem over many years. I am pleased that the scheme that is planned and is at an advanced stage will be the first part in seeking to resolve the issues. It is important that, as we carry out the works for the waste water treatment plant, we await and assess the scientific report, which will be crucial in dealing with the legacy issues of the lagoon.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his response so far. As has been said, the problem has existed for at least 20 years. I notice that, in 2010, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency issued a warning letter to the DRD. Will the Minister explain how the project will resolve the issue of odours and prevent pollution of these important lagoons?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question and his welcome for the work that is about to commence. Phase 1 of the project will divert the combined sewer overflow discharges to the Kinnegar works and away from the lagoons, and it will comprise the construction of a new interceptor sewer and pumping station. It is hoped that phase 2 will address the odours from the lagoons and undertake remedial work. It is envisaged that, once both phases are complete, the frequency and severity of the odours in the area will be greatly reduced, if not eliminated. It is right that we are cautious enough to say that the scientific investigations will be key to making progress on phase 2 of the project.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

As a member for East Belfast, which is in close proximity to the area in question, I am aware of the seriousness of the issue. Is the Minister willing to meet the Mayor of North Down, Alliance councillor Andrew Muir, who has campaigned on the issue for a number of years, and a cross-party delegation of councillors on this important matter for residents and commuters in the area?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am grateful to the Member for his supplementary question and for promoting his party colleague, with whom I have had meetings on other issues. I am generally receptive to elected representatives, and I like to be known as a listening Minister. When requests come in, I do my level best to accede to them, if appropriate. That might encourage you to speak to your friend.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

5. asked the Minister for Regional Development whether his Department's plans to provide fenced areas for immigration control in Strangford village have been abandoned and will not be resurrected. (AQO 4664/11-15)

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I am conscious of the importance of Strangford as a tourism area. The Member knows that we are under pressure to make security arrangements, for want of a better title, for the cruise ships that berth in that area. Hence, at one stage, a planning application had been submitted. I have taken action to have that application withdrawn. I intend to make a special case about arrangements for the area with the Department for Transport in London, and I have asked to meet the relevant Minister to put forward the unique circumstances that we have here.

Not many cruise ships berth there on a yearly basis. However, that can continue to be developed, and I do not want people to be put off for any reason. Nonetheless, there are requirements that we have to meet, and we will see where those discussions take us.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

I hoped that the Minister would say that the project was shelved. I accept that there have to be special arrangements for cruise liners, but could passengers not be shepherded into a nearby building rather than building a cage-like structure, which is totally inappropriate not only for the village of Strangford but the village of Portaferry, just across the narrows, which was equally going to have one inflicted on it? It is simply just the wrong facility in the wrong place.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I assure the Member that I am on the same side as him. In fact, I have been proactive in ensuring that the current planning application was withdrawn by my Department. We can resolve this through use of the temporary structures or some appropriate structure. I will approach the discussions with colleagues in London with that in mind in order to resolve this issue to the satisfaction of, hopefully, everyone.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. I welcome his withdrawal of what was an ill-advised planning application at new quay, Strangford, this month, which would have deprived local people of ongoing access to the lough. Will the Minister now bring forward proposals to develop Newry quay, in Strangford village, which is owned by DRD, as a vehicle to service local tourism and, perhaps, to service sea-based tidal and wind farms that are being built off the coast in that area?

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

The Member has wandered slightly off the subject, I suppose to his own advantage. We will make ourselves available to meet with and discuss further initiatives with relevant and interested agencies such as the local council and, perhaps, the Northern Ireland Tourist Board or whichever government agency or Department wishes to engage with us. There is much work to do to resolve the current situation, but simply withdrawing the planning application is a significant signal of my thinking on this issue.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Question 6 has been withdrawn

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

7. asked the Minister for Regional Development for an update on car-park charges in Magherafelt. (AQO 4666/11-15)