Northern Ireland Assembly, 2 December 2013

449 contributions from 72 members. The official report.

Matter of the Day

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Mr Gregory Campbell has been given leave to make a statement, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24, on the Glasgow helicopter disaster. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise continually in their place. All Members who are called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. Members will know that there will be no points of order and that no other issue will be discussed as we deal with this item of business.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

A human tragedy unfolded in Glasgow at the weekend. I know, from speaking to one or two people from Northern Ireland who were in the area at the time, that it was a tragedy of immense proportions. All of us have watched, listened to and read about the suffering that resulted from the helicopter accident, with nine people dying and scores more being injured, several of whom are intensive care as we speak. Scotland was preparing to celebrate its national day, St Andrew's Day. It now appears that, for some years to come, the day will be a day of mourning rather than a day of celebration. As far as we are aware, the helicopter has an excellent safety record, and, of course, we now await the outcome of the investigation.

The intent today is to stand in solidarity with the people of Glasgow; to offer our condolences to the family and friends of those who have died; to offer good wishes to those who are injured and who will hopefully improve under hospital care; and to indicate to the entire people of the nation that all of us, in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, stand with a people who are mourning today as a result of a very tragic human accident.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Is tragóid uafásach ar fad í seo. Táimid ag smaoineamh ar na daoine agus ar na clanna go léir.

This is a terrible tragedy. We are thinking about the families of the people who have suffered and who continue to suffer. We have seen tremendous local examples of heroism, and I put on record my party's support for the innovation and leadership shown by those people. We heard some of them on the radio this morning. They did things such as forming a human chain. Fortunately, one woman had a flashlight, which, in the darkness when the dust came down, helped to save lives.

Our thoughts are also with one father who has still has not found his son; certainly, he had not done so in the last report that I heard. Our thoughts are with those people.

This reminds me of two different occasions when I was working in Latin America, in Mexico and El Salvador. I was there just after the earthquakes. Buildings had fallen in, and it was awful to see families wait for three days and nights. I remember that one little baby was brought out of the rubble. He had been breastfeeding from his mother, and that is how he survived. I will never forget the euphoria when that happened.

The people of Ireland are thinking about our comrades in Scotland. We know that this is a really difficult time for them, and our thoughts are with them at this terrible time.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

On behalf of the SDLP, I show solidarity, express my deep sadness and offer my condolences to all those adversely affected by the helicopter crash in Glasgow, which has claimed the lives of nine people. At any rate, nine people are currently recorded as having died. They include the pilot, David Traill and the second, civilian pilot, Tony Collins, two police officers and at least five civilians. Also, numerous people have been seriously injured.

This is a terrible tragedy for Glasgow, and our thoughts and prayers must be with the families and friends of those who have lost their lives. For me, it is unimaginable what their loved ones must be going through right now. My thoughts and full sympathy are with each of them.

Having watched the harrowing scenes on television, I praise the unbelievable work of the emergency services that are involved in what must have been a complex rescue and recovery operation. Those heroic workers may very well say that they were just doing their job, but their work in helping people in those circumstances and in saving further lives was truly remarkable.

There has always been a close bond between the people of Ireland and Scotland, and, indeed, between the people of Belfast and Glasgow. There has always been emigration to Scotland and Glasgow from many parts of Northern Ireland. Indeed, one of my colleagues Colum Eastwood was in Glasgow on Friday night and spoke of the great sadness and shock that existed on what has been called "a dark day for Glasgow".

My commiserations are with all those who have suffered deep loss, their families and friends and, indeed, the wider community in Glasgow. The united and dignified way in which the people of the city pulled together in the face of such a massive tragedy is a reflection of the strong spirit of the Scottish people. We in the SDLP will send a letter of condolence to the Scottish First Minister, Alex Salmond, offering our condolences, and we wish all those involved a speedy recovery.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I express our thoughts and sympathy to the family and friends of the nine individuals, crew and family, who lost their lives over the weekend. An incident such as this at a time such as this reminds us all of the fragility of life, how quickly it can be taken away and how loved ones can be removed from a caring family circle, especially just in the mouth of Christmas, when families will feel that loss immensely.

Like other Members, I pay tribute to the emergency services and to the general public, who did a sterling job in bringing those people from the rubble and wreckage. There is talk of a human chain and the use of torches. Specialist equipment was also brought in, including fibre-optic cameras, specialist sound equipment and carbon dioxide detectors. Those were all on hand and were made full use of.

Although we remember and congratulate the specialists and the emergency services in the work that they did in rescuing people, our thoughts also turn to the emergency services in hospitals that dealt with those who were seriously injured at that time. I believe that a number of people are still in intensive care, mostly with head and upper body injuries. Therefore, we commend those people to our thoughts and prayers.

All parties in Scotland joined in thinking of the loved ones and families at this time, and I am glad that all parties in this place have joined their colleagues in the Scottish Parliament. Thank you.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

There is no doubt that Glasgow is still a city in shock, and rescue operations are under way at the site. As we pass on our sympathy and condolences to the bereaved and those who were injured, we should also remember those who are still engaged in very difficult and dangerous work on the ground.

This morning, I spoke to Kenny MacAskill, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice in Edinburgh. He assured me that, as we expect public services across the UK to do, Police Scotland is doing an excellent job alongside its colleagues from the Fire and Rescue Service and the Ambulance Service. If additional resources are required, I know that they will be made available by the PSNI or by forces in England and Wales. There are clearly issues around backup for air support.

I also spoke to Alistair Carmichael, the Secretary of State for Scotland, who, just before we spoke, had been in the control room. He spoke of the work being done by the emergency services and the city council and of the trauma being suffered by those who do that work. For those who lost colleagues in the helicopter, it is not just an anonymous incident. They are dealing with people with whom they worked daily, and they recognise the aftermath. As we add our sympathy to the bereaved and the injured, we should also remember the long-term effects on those who are engaged in that traumatic work.

There was heroism on the street from the rescue services and passers-by. There is also long-term work being done by those who are in the control room and those who continue to work in the hospitals. We should keep them all in our thoughts and prayers.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am grateful to Mr Campbell for tabling the matter of the day. Whether it was through Twitter or the mainstream news, like all colleagues, it was with shock and horror that I learned about these events. The very horror that something like that could happen in one of the largest cities in the country is appalling. The devastation that it leads to and the split second in which lives are changed forever gives us all a real wake-up call as to how quickly lives can be changed in such dramatic circumstances.

On behalf of NI21, I offer my sympathies to all the families of the bereaved and to those who are still battling in intensive care and hospitals. I want to commend the police and the emergency services — the Fire and Rescue Service and the Ambulance Service — for the work that they have done. I also commend the wider public, who literally did whatever they could to assist in any way. It was a huge undertaking for people, and it was very challenging. As Mr Ford rightly reminded us, the horrors will live on with people for many years to come, as will the difficulties for all those who were involved, whether they are in the emergency services or members of the general public who were helping. The sheer horror of the scene of that crash will stay with them for many years.

We need to keep all the families of all the people involved and all the people of Scotland very much in our thoughts and prayers today, tomorrow, next week, next month and for many months to come. They will need our support as they come to terms with their loss and the grief and change in circumstances that was visited on them, literally in the blink of an eye. We will keep thinking about the families.

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

I am grateful to Mr Campbell for the opportunity to unite the House on such a harrowing subject after such a harrowing event. UKIP adds its support to the words that have been expressed by everyone today. It is appropriate for the Assembly to show our sorrow in solidarity with the Scottish people, the people of Glasgow and, in particular, the bereaved.

It is important that those who are waiting for news of their loved ones know that we are thinking of them in this part of the United Kingdom — Northern Ireland. It is right also to acknowledge the efforts of the public and the police, fire and ambulance services in responding to this tragedy in the manner in which they did. Obviously, our thoughts and prayers are with them all today and for a lasting period.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I add my condolences to those people who have lost loved ones and send a message of support to the people of Scotland, especially those who are still waiting on news of their loved ones.

I was in Glasgow on Friday night. I was with a doctor who got a phone call, and that is how we found out. He and many other doctors, nurses and other hospital staff rushed to their posts, as did the emergency services, and they need to be commended.

There is a real sense of shock and sadness in Glasgow, but there is also a sense of resilience, which is a sense that people in this part of the world know very well. There was also a panic that set in, and I think people have to understand this, as well: a panic right across Glasgow, with people worrying about where their loved ones were. It was a very busy Friday night, and many people were out enjoying themselves in the city centre. There was also a sense of panic in places in Northern Ireland, because many loved ones from here are in Glasgow. In fact, I know somebody who regularly plays music in that very pub.

I echo the words of support for the people of Glasgow. They will get through this very difficult time, and they will get through it together.

Committee Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

As with similar motions, this will be treated as a business motion. Therefore, there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Ms Megan Fearon replace Ms Maeve McLaughlin as a member of the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment; that Ms Michaela Boyle replace Ms Megan Fearon as a member of the Committee for Finance and Personnel; and that Ms Maeve McLaughlin replace Ms Michaela Boyle as a member of the Committee for Education. — [Ms Ruane.]

Ministerial Statements

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I will make a statement to update Members on the work that my Department is taking forward to carry out a strategic assessment of rate collection and recovery.

You will all be aware that one of my key priorities is to encourage reform of the public sector. I want our public services to be more innovative and more productive, and to give consistently good outcomes. Those ambitions in themselves are important, but I also want reformed public services that are better able to stimulate and maintain economic growth.

One of the key ways that businesses maintain a competitive advantage is by being innovative in the development of products and services. I am firmly of the belief that such innovation should not be constrained to the private sector.

The public rightly expects its Government to deliver high-quality services. It expects us to make the most of every pound of taxpayers' money we spend. In an era of increasing demand on public services and a constrained financial outlook, it will simply not be possible for the public sector to continue in the manner that it currently does. We have to be smarter in the delivery of our services, and we have to find new and innovative ways to serve the people of Northern Ireland. We also have to meet the needs of an increasingly demanding population.

I am keen that the Department of Finance and Personnel, as part of the strategic centre of the Stormont Administration, should seek to play the fullest of roles as an enabler and a catalyst for reform and innovation across the entirety of the public sector. But I have also made it clear that I cannot preach public sector reform for everyone else without practicing it in my own Department.

The way we collect and recover rates is an area where we are looking to be innovative to improve how we engage with the public and how we deliver our services. Rates are an extremely important source of revenue for the Northern Ireland Executive. Land and Property Services (LPS) was responsible for collecting over £1·1 billion in revenue last year. This revenue helps fund vital public services such as health, education, housing, roads and emergency services. It also provides a significant stream of income to all district councils in Northern Ireland.

As Members will be well aware, the last few years have been an extremely challenging period for individuals and businesses alike. We became well used to bad news about shop closures and the impact that the economic downturn had, and is continuing to have, on local traders in our towns and cities. I see it in my constituency, and I see it in other constituencies that I have visited in my capacity as Finance Minister.

It is not simply the economic downturn that is causing such difficulties. The retail industry is undergoing a fundamental shift in the way that people shop for goods and services. Online stores and big retail outlets are taking an increasing share of consumer spending. While there are many encouraging signs that the economy is entering recovery, with falling unemployment, rising employment, increasing business activity and an improving housing market, times remain tough for many individuals. Only recently, the Northern Ireland Court Service released figures on the startling increase in possession orders. They reported a 20% increase in orders granted in the July to September quarter this year compared with the same quarter last year. Debt advice organisations are reporting increased numbers of applications for advice. There is no doubt that many ratepayers are finding it increasingly difficult to meet their financial obligations.

Such an economic backdrop makes the job of collecting rates an increasingly challenging one. More ratepayers struggling to pay increases the administrative burden of collecting rates. LPS has seen increasing numbers of bankruptcy and liquidations, which leads to debt being written off. More people seeking arrangements to pay, or seeking to pay by instalment, increases the collection timeline. Within that context, LPS has pursued a number of actions to reduce rate arrears. Those include offering payment arrangements, where appropriate; offering, where conditions are met, benefits, reliefs and allowances; pursuing court processes, obtaining court decrees, referral of debt to the Enforcement of Judgments Office and initiation of bankruptcy proceedings, where appropriate; using Land Registry information and data-sharing agreements with other public bodies; and utilising tracing services to locate debtors.

Despite this difficult economic environment, LPS has stabilised the amount of rating debt and has increased the cash collected by over £125 million since 2008-09. The Public Accounts Committee hearing of October 2012 acknowledged the improvement journey that LPS rate collection has been on but recognised the need for further and continuous improvement. The Committee also recommended the need for a review of rate collection processes to ensure that they remain effective.

I am conscious of the volume of change that LPS has dealt with since its formation in 2007. In that time, LPS has implemented 42 rating reforms, when counterparts in Great Britain have had a stable council tax system for over 20 years, with relatively little change. LPS has learned many lessons from this period of change, and heading into the 2015-16 period, where more significant change lies ahead, I am keen for them to prepare for that challenge. I am also keen to make clear that when I talk about public sector reform, I am not just talking about reform in other Departments. I am prepared — indeed, I am enthusiastic — to ensure that my Department leads by example.

Today, I would like to announce that, as part of my reform agenda, my Department is carrying out a strategic assessment of rate collection and recovery, with the assistance of external advice and expertise from Ernst and Young, who have experience in engaging with leading collection agencies in the public and private sectors. It will be a short, focused review, which will be completed by the end of this year. The main objective of the review is to establish the effectiveness of current rate collection and recovery processes by delivering a set of prioritised opportunities for improvement. It is particularly important that Land and Property Services prepares for the challenges that we know lie ahead.

From 2015 onwards, LPS will see a number of strategic projects impact on the rate collection and recovery process. The implementation of new council structures will require reorganisation of LPS data and systems to accommodate the new 11-council model. Councils will require additional support from LPS in penny product calculation for their new council areas. That will need to be managed without impacting on the effectiveness of rate collection.

A non-domestic revaluation will also be implemented in 2015-16. That will redistribute the rate burden based on more up-to-date valuation assessments. This is a major project that requires significant preparation from LPS and will generate increased volumes of follow-up work, as ratepayers will naturally seek to query and contest their valuations. That, too, will impact on the billing and collection process.

We are also preparing in earnest for the rate rebate replacement scheme, which will see significant change in the administration of rate rebates in Northern Ireland. LPS will be taking on a much greater workload in administering the new scheme. The transition to a rate replacement scheme must be managed effectively to avoid a negative impact on existing collection and recovery processes.

To ensure that LPS is fully prepared for the challenges ahead, the strategic assessment of rate collection will focus on the following key objectives: an appraisal of LPS rating performance over the past few years, highlighting significant milestones, successes and obstacles and how those might inform future performance; an assessment of the effectiveness of current processes, with clear recommendations identifying opportunities for improvement; and an appraisal of how recommendations will impact on LPS strategy and readiness for the programme of change ahead.

I hope that Members will appreciate the efforts we are taking to prepare LPS for the changes ahead through this work. With your support, I believe that LPS has the potential to be a leading collection agency. I want to benchmark what LPS does against the best in Britain, because I want LPS to become the best. A reformed public sector that provides people with first-rate public services needs a cutting-edge rate collection agency. This review and its outcomes can assist us in achieving the aim of having an innovative and reform-orientated public sector, as well as underpinning our efforts to deliver world-class public services to the people of Northern Ireland. I commend the statement to the House.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister's statement. I also welcome the fact that the assessment will be short and sharp, and that it will be concluded by the end of the year because, given the amount of work that is in the pipeline for LPS, it is important that such an assessment does not hang over the organisation. Obviously, the Committee has concerns about debt write-off and the level of rating debt. Some £47 million was written off between 2009 and 2012. That has increased year on year, so it is a problem that, unfortunately, is not going away, and I hope that the Minister is successful in his efforts.

Can the Minister give an assurance to LPS workers that this is not a major reform, but simply a change to ensure that we get the right strategy and focus in place? Does the Minister believe that, given the performance over the past three to four years, the targets that LPS is setting are challenging enough for the organisation?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Chair for his question. Yes, I can confirm that it is a short, sharp review of LPS. It has commenced and will be completed by 20 December, which is the end date for this six-week review. I can assure him, the House and, most importantly, the staff of LPS that this is not a fundamental review of LPS as an entity, or its structures. I hope that the review will, ultimately, manifest itself through changes to processes, because I think that the fair criticism of LPS has been more about processes not necessarily working best for the customer than about the way in which it is constructed being wrong and inappropriate for the job that it has to do.

In fact, I think the way that LPS has been constructed, particularly with the merger of four different departments, makes its structure absolutely fit for purpose. However, that does not mean that there are not changes that could be brought forward that would make it even better. The objective of this review is to take a system, which I think compares favourably with other collection agencies, be they local authorities in England, Wales and Scotland or utility companies or entities like HMRC, and ensure that it continues to compare favourably. I think that it will compare favourably, but that does not mean that there is not scope for improvement. That is the focus of this review.

Debt write-off concerns us all, although it is a manifestation of the economic problems that we have, which we could rehearse ad infinitum. It is also worth noting that the amount of rate debt that we wrote off in Northern Ireland historically was much lower than in authorities across England and Wales. The fact that we have increased that write-off to get a better and more accurate picture of the debt reflects some changes that have taken place over the past number of years to put us more in line with standard practice.

The Chair will know that a lot of that debt that has been written-off is the result of bankruptcies and insolvencies, and LPS simply cannot recover it. Last year, it was 50% of the total debt write-off; this year, to date, that figure has increased to close to 60%. So, it sort of shows us something of the problems that we are facing. I think it is right that, where we cannot recover the debt, we write it off, but it is a worrying reflection of where we are economically.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. What specific plans are in place to deal with the issue of rates convergence that will arise from the review of public administration (RPA)?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. The impact of the review of public administration is one of the three challenges that LPS faces in 2015-16, and I was careful about the need to do this review now. If we were to leave this review, which would have been necessary at any stage, until later, we would have been getting into the very heavy lifting around RPA, revaluation and rates rebate replacement. So, we needed to do it now.

We are making good progress on coming up with a transitional relief scheme to deal with the issue of rates convergence that is arising from the review of public administration. The Member and the House will know that there a few council areas that will merge with little or no impact for the ratepayer, but there are quite a few where there will be a significant difference in the current rates levels between one council area and another.

The Executive agreed earlier this year to provide funding of up to £30 million for a scheme. Officials from my Department continue to work through the DOE-led finance working group and its rates convergence subgroup. They both report to the regional transition operational board for RPA to try to come up with a scheme that ensures that, where a council that has fairly low rates is being merged with one that has much higher rates, people do not see the impact on their rates bill in the first few years of RPA becoming a reality.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis. I thank the Minister for his statement. The current level of debt, at £153·5 million, is a huge loss of resource to public services. Not to dwell too much on the negative, I notice that there has been an increase in cash collection by over £125 million since 2008-09. How is that made up? Is it from new customers or as a result of better debt retrieval? Are there any lessons that can be learned from the methodologies involved in increasing that figure?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. There is a lot of focus and attention, understandably and naturally, on the debt figure for rates. At £160 million, which has risen in the past number of years, it is an incredibly worrying position. The Member mentioned £153 million, but it is £160 million when you include the rating of empty homes debt, which has been realised over the past couple of years. The level of debt is very high. Again, it is affected by some of the issues in the economy over those years, and any rate collection agency or council tax agency — indeed, any collection agency of any kind — has experienced similar problems over the past number of years.

If so many people are having difficulties, going bust and becoming insolvent, you would expect that figure to rise. It has risen to a very worrying level, but the Member is right to highlight the fact that, since 2008-09, we have increased the rates that we have collected by £125 million. That has been done through a variety of measures, including, at times, taking a much more sympathetic approach towards those who have fallen into difficulties but are still in a position to pay some of their rates back. So, a significant number of payment arrangements have been put in place over the past number of years. At some stage in this year to date alone, 63,500 people have had a payment arrangement. At the minute, there are about 23,500 active ones, and those payment arrangements have brought in over £45 million this year alone. That shows that, where you show a little latitude and work with people who want to pay their rates and are in a position to do so, you can get more in. Therefore, by showing some sympathy and a willingness to work with people and also by aggressively pursuing those who do not want to pay, have tried not to pay, or have, perhaps, understandably, fallen into difficulties and have tried not to pay their rates debt, we have been able to increase the amount of money that we have brought in.

There is a lot of focus on the £160 million of debt. It is right to focus on that. However, in reality, it sometimes masks some of the very positive efforts that have been taken to recoup that money for all of us to spend on improving the services that we are meant to deliver to the people who elect us to Stormont.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I, too, thank the Minister for his statement. He referred to the review of councils and the importance of the penny product rate. Recently, one of the difficulties has been getting new properties and developments onto the valuation list. Will the Minister's review take care of that problem?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. The review will not look specifically at valuation issues. However, that is something that we may come to through a similar piece of work in the future. I am happy to provide the Member with more detailed figures. Again, in its work in reviewing that, the Public Accounts Committee accepted that LPS was making significant progress in a range of areas. However, that was one area that was highlighted as a particular problem.

We have continued to focus particularly on getting newbuilds onto the valuation list. The number of days and weeks that it takes to get them on the list has started to drop, as has the backlog of requests for valuations. Although it is still at a very high level, that number is falling. I do not have instant recall of the figures, but it is an improving position. I am happy to share the precise figures with the Member, so that he can be better informed on that. It is an area that has received a lot of attention and focus. It is showing positive results. If I am not satisfied that it is moving quickly enough in the right direction, I will be happy to undertake a similar piece of work for valuations as well.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for his statement, in which he referred to some of the options for pursuing arrears. I have examples of businesses in my constituency that have arrears purely due to errors that were made by LPS for previous years. Those businesses have asked to settle that liability separately from the current financial year and deal with it through a different payment plan. Unfortunately, the computer says no. Will the Minister look at that issue to try to assist those small businesses? Does he have any plans to deal differently with arrears that are purely down to LPS errors?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I, like my predecessor, am very willing to hear from all Members. In fact, my Department gets a considerable volume of correspondence from Members of the House and elsewhere about particular issues that arise in constituency work. I am always very happy and keen to work through those issues with the Member and, above all else, most importantly, the customer. It is an area that concerns me. Again, as I said in my response to Mr Cree, LPS has improved over the past number of years; it has been mindful of the criticism that it has faced in respect of its customer service, and its customer service has improved. However, there is always scope for improvement.

On the particular issue that the Member raises, which is, if I have picked her up correctly, the issue of taking previous years' debt into the existing year's bill and the difficulty that that poses for some people. They want to clear this year's debt and, then, deal separately and differently with previous years' debt. One of the reasons why previous years' debt is tackled first is that, if we do not secure that debt and get it within six years, it falls off the edge and cannot be collected. We do not want people to gain through the system either. However, I am mindful of and understand the very point that the Member makes. In fact, the review will look carefully at whether we can, through the systems that we have, through better use of the computer and getting it to say yes, actually separate those out and allow people to deal with it. At the end of the day, as far as I am concerned — whether it is this year's debt or historical debt — I want it to be paid because it is legitimate debt.

If errors are being made, I ask the Member and, indeed, all Members to come forward as quickly as possible to me or directly to LPS. We will endeavour to make our best efforts to ensure that those errors are corrected and that people get accurate rates bills.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I want to go back to the point that Mr Bradley and Mrs Cochrane made. If debt is accrued because a bill is not sent out on time, businesses can find it difficult to pay two years' rates inside one year. The Department seems to be reluctant to allow businesses to carry the debt forward and to pay the current year's debt along with a small amount of the previous year's arrears over a longer period. What action is LPS taking to recover that and other debts?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Member for his question. There should not be any lack of willingness on the Department's part to enter into payment arrangements. In fact, the numbers reflect that we are prepared to do so. At the moment, some 23,500 payment arrangements are going on. So, particularly where we understand that companies, businesses and individuals are having difficulty in the current economic climate, we are prepared to enter into reasonable payment arrangements. We cannot allow those debts to be paid off at some unspecified stage in the future; the arrangement has to very clear and defined, and its terms have to be met.

It is important that, when LPS takes the time to engage and agree a payment arrangement, those with whom it enters into the agreement stick to its terms. I have seen a number of cases where people have perhaps entered into an agreement in good faith but have not stuck to it. I am also aware of cases where I am not sure that they have entered into payment arrangements in good faith. We cannot expect LPS to sit back and to habitually allow the terms of payment arrangements to be breached without taking some other form of action. That is when, sometimes, we move from payment arrangements to pursuing the debt through a legal process.

We have, unfortunately, seen an increase in the number of legal processes that have gone through. Last year, there were about 46,000, and this year there had been close to 30,000 by the end of October, which represents a year-on-year increase of 10%. It is not something that we like to do or want to do, but it is something that, unfortunately, we sometimes have to do. So, it is about a combination of trying to work with people through payment arrangements while always having the option of going through a legal process to secure the debt via the court. LPS will always hold that option to itself, because, at the end of the day, it is legitimate debt that is pursued to get money into Executive accounts so that it can be invested for the betterment of health, education, housing and other public services.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement. My question is probably influenced by the coming of Christmas and goodwill and peace to everyone. The Minister recognises that the Public Accounts Committee has acknowledged a significant improvement in how rates are collected. Does that mean that the tetchy relationship that we had with his predecessor is now at an end and that he will work in partnership with the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) from now on for the greater good of the people whom we serve?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I think that my predecessor would consider "tetchy" to be an insult. [Interruption.] I think that he would consider himself to have been far worse than tetchy from time to time.

I know that the Member and, indeed, the Chairperson of the PAC hope to meet me if not before Christmas, very early in the new year. I hope to have a very productive discussion with them about the very good work that the PAC can do and has done, and about where I see it helping to ensure that not only do we get best value for money, which is critical, but how we can use the skills, ability, focus and attention that the PAC's experience brings to get better outcomes.

I appreciate the work that the PAC did on rate collection. Many of the recommendations that came forward in that report have informed both this announcement and the work that is going on at the moment. As an example of where we can work together and do things positively, if I think that things are not being done positively, I will speak up about it. That is something that I learned from my predecessor. I hope that we can have a productive and fruitful relationship, working together to ensure that those important principles of value for money and better outcomes for our people are always achieved.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

The Minister's statement was on the strategic assessment of rate collection. Turning the use of rates another way, I ask the Minister to give an assessment of how Land and Property Services rates are collected, and how that compares?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Like issues around debt and the percentage of rates that we collect, it is one of the areas in which I want to see us working very closely as part of the review. What percentage of rates are we collecting? The latest figure is around 96·5%. That has improved significantly over the past number of years, from 94% in 2008-09. For every 1% increase that we make, that is roughly an extra £10 million that we get in to spend on public services, so you can see that it is important that we get the percentage as close to 100% as we possibly can.

It is difficult to take a direct read-across from what a local authority in England, Wales or Scotland is doing and compare it with here, because we have very different systems, but there are benchmarks against which you can grade LPS, and I want to see those form part of the report.

The data that we have on the cost of collection, which is not current but not that old — it comes from 2009-2010 and 2010-11 — shows that we compare reasonably favourably with Great Britain. In 2009-2010, the cost of collecting for LPS was £27·74 million. In the next year, it was £28·2 million. The GB benchmark was £29·56 million for 2009-2010, with £27·46 million for the following year. Those are only two years of figures, so it is hard to extrapolate from those a trend, but they do show our costs slightly rising and GB's slightly falling. If that continues, it is something that will worry me, although, to go back to the points that I made in the statement, the 42 rating reforms that we have put through and the three major ones that we are facing in 2015 all put a burden on the administrative cost of collecting rates as well. However, it is an area in which we have to continue to bear down on the costs, because if the trend of increasing cost continues, it will cause a problem that we will need to take action against.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his response. Given his previous role as a councillor — a role that I shared — he will recognise the benefits of councils being helpful. I know that Lisburn council carried out an exercise to identify vacant properties, not least through refuge collectors. When they were collecting bins, they checked their database and found out that property owners had not been paying rates. Sometimes it was not their own fault — they had requested to pay them — but on other occasions there was an avoidance of paying rates. In taking forward the review, can we ensure that there is joined-up working with local authorities, which often can provide useful information?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Absolutely. I want to see that continue, not just in that area of work but in others, because LPS, on behalf of central government, and individual councils have mutual interests. At the end of the day, the more money that we collect, the more money that we have to spend on serving our people.

The Member is right about empty domestic properties. A lot of work was undertaken a number of years ago in advance of the rating of empty homes coming in to ensure that we had as accurate a valuation list as possible. Another area in which work is ongoing is in LPS working with councils to ensure that business properties that are supposedly vacant are in fact vacant. It is a similar type of work but in a slightly different sector. I am open to all types of work with local government, whether on an individual, council-by-council basis or with the totality of local government, to ensure that we can work towards having as accurate a valuation list as possible, because, at the end of the day, that serves all of our interests.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister mentioned the £160 million of rating debt. Can he tell the House how much rating debt is being written off annually? In consequence of writing it off, who makes up the shortfall? Is it the paying ratepayer, or is there an assumption about bad debt built into the rating system? Can he assure us that the revaluation will be ready and implemented in just 16 months' time?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Typically of the Member, there are quite a few questions there. I will endeavour to answer all of them, or certainly as many as I can. The issue of £160 million of debt comes up once again. It is absolutely right that there is a lot of focus and attention on what is an incredibly high figure, one that has risen over the past number of years. I can stand here and Members can say, "Well, look, we are in difficult economic circumstances. We know that many businesses have gone to the wall and many continue to struggle. We know that it is difficult and that cost-of-living increases put pressure on individuals", as if that somehow excuses the fact that debt has risen to £160 million.

Whilst I understand those reasons, it is not acceptable just to pass over £160 million of debt because of that. However, a significant portion of that debt figure, probably over half, is not recoverable debt in the traditional sense. It is taken up by payment arrangements, as I mentioned previously. Some is tied up in ongoing insolvencies and bankruptcies, so the accurate figure of what is recoverable debt within that £160 million needs to be hollowed out. It is something that I am keen to see presented much more accurately than is done currently.

Debt write-off has grown from £10·2 million in 2009-2010 to £29·1 million in 2012-13. That is a significant increase and reflects the times that we are in. In terms of who pays for that, it does not affect local government until it is written off, and then it is adjusted in penny product.

I appreciate the Member asking about rate revaluation, because it is another opportunity to mention it and emphasise that I think there is a belief writ large that revaluation will be the panacea that will sort out everybody's rates bill, and everybody's rates bill will go down. The Member will appreciate that it is a fairer redistribution of rates burdens across non-domestic ratepayers. So, some people will see their bills go up, others will see their bills go down and the vast majority will see their bills remain more or less the same.

He asked whether it will be ready. I accept that we face an incredibly challenging timeframe. Given the circumstances of the economy, and the fact that there has been less movement than you would like ordinarily in terms of property letting and rents to get a more accurate picture of what a property is renting at, that presents huge challenges for LPS. However, every effort and resource is being put in to ensure that we get as accurate a picture and as fair a distribution of the rates burden as we possibly can — and, of course, that it is done on time. That is of critical importance.

Undoubtedly, it is a challenge. England and Wales have delayed theirs by a further two years. Given that it is a decade since we did a non-domestic revaluation, I do not think that I could have got away with delaying it any further.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. With your permission, I wish to make a statement in compliance with section 52 of the 1998 Act regarding the twenty-third meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) in aquaculture and marine sectoral format. The meeting was held in Derry on Wednesday 23 October 2013.

The Executive were represented by me and junior Minister Jonathan Bell. The Dublin Government were represented by Pat Rabbitte TD, Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and Fergus O’Dowd TD, Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. I chaired the meeting. This statement has been agreed with junior Minister Bell, and I am making it on behalf of us both.

Ministers received a detailed progress report on the activities of the Loughs Agency. We welcomed the agency's participation in the City of Culture, and in particular its proactive role in partnering with Tate Britain to supply local oysters at Turner Prize events in the city.

Ministers congratulated the Loughs Agency on receiving a tourism award at the chamber of commerce business awards; its role in the flavours of the Foyle seafood festival, which attracted 18,000 visitors; its role in the Carlingford oyster festival, which attracted 10,000 visitors; and its successful role in hosting the sea angling competition in the World Police and Fire Games.

Ministers welcomed progress on a range of EU-funded marine tourism initiatives that the agency brought forward. Those include securing £208,400 in INTERREG funding to develop the area around Malin Head, the most northerly point in Ireland, to facilitate visitors to that iconic site; and, in partnership with Limavady Borough Council, securing £486,500 in INTERREG funding to develop the visitor experience at Benone.

The Council discussed the key issue of conservation. It was advised that the rivers Faughan and Roe were maintaining relatively stable populations of Atlantic salmon and meeting their management targets and conservation limits. In addition, the agency reported that there had been an incremental improvement in the populations in the Rivers Finn and Mourne since 2010-11.

Ministers received a detailed and highly informative presentation on the monitoring of oyster stocks in Lough Foyle and noted the practical use of that information and how it is applied in management decisions made by the Loughs Agency in the Foyle catchment.

We approved the Loughs Agency business plan 2013 and recommended a budget provision for 2013 of £4·25 million. Key priorities include the conservation and protection of fisheries in the Foyle and Carlingford areas; licensing and development of aquaculture; and the development of marine tourism and angling.

We also received an update on the Loughs Agency annual report and draft financial statement 2012, which, following certification, will be laid before the Assembly and the Oireachtas.

The Council acknowledged the progress on the development of the Loughs Agency corporate plan 2014-16 and the business plan 2014-16. It was agreed that the Loughs Agency will apply further efficiency savings to the 2014-16 budget.

The Council also agreed the key priorities for the corporate planning period. Those included carrying out a strategic review and economic appraisal of agency premises and accommodation needs and a strategic review of the Loughs Agency's enforcement and development roles. The corporate and business plans will be brought to a future Council meeting for approval.

The meeting concluded with Ministers noting the date of the next aquaculture and marine sectoral meeting in February 2014.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon. Will she expand on the Loughs Agency's involvement in City of Culture events and, indeed, any other major tourism events over the past while?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Absolutely. The agency has been very successful over the past wee while. As I outlined in my statement, it has also been a tremendous year for Derry as the City of Culture. The Loughs Agency played a very significant role in that, working in partnership with other agencies to provide, among many other things, quite a lot of tourism events. A lot of people think that the Loughs Agency is purely a policing and enforcement body, but the events that it has showcased throughout this year proves that that is certainly not the case; it is much more than that.

The Turner Prize is being held in Derry, and this is the first time that the award ceremony has ever been held outside England. The Loughs Agency was able to partner with Tate Britain to supply local oysters, and I was delighted to be at a reception on board an Irish naval vessel, LE Aisling, on Lough Foyle where we got to sample the oysters. That was a fantastic event, and it was great to see the Loughs Agency partnering up with Tate Britain to be able to do that.

The Foyle pontoon project received an award for the best tourism initiative at the city's chamber of commerce business awards. We also had the Clipper Round the World Yacht Race, which is hoping to come back again in 2014 and 2016; the World Police and Fire Games; and the twelfth World Youth Fly Fishing Championship, which helped to showcase the brilliant angling amenities that exist right across the island of Ireland. So there has been a fantastic array of events, and it is great to see the Loughs Agency partnering up with other organisations. The agency's policing and enforcement role is obviously a key element of what it does, but it is able to deliver on a whole lot more.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister. Minister, you referred to salmon conservation. Were there any further discussions about the complete removal of nets, or the provision of any compensation for the removal of nets, to increase salmon numbers?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Salmon conservation is a key area for the NSMC and the Loughs Agency. Salmon conservation was discussed but not the issue of compensation or anything like that. At the meeting, the Loughs Agency set out the work done on the ground by its dedicated protection and conservation staff. They are out there enforcing and ensuring compliance with the suite of regulations on the protection of salmon and sea trout.

We are also gathering a lot of scientific evidence. As I said in the statement, we got some feedback on the different rivers that are relevant to the Loughs Agency. The discussion was really about conservation and all the things that we need to do. There was no discussion about nets, because that cannot happen in any of the Loughs Agency's rivers at this time.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her statement and, in particular, the announcement of funding for Malin Head and Benone. She will, of course, be aware that the critical element in developing cross-border tourism there is missing, and that is the Foyle ferry service. I acknowledge that the Minister does not have direct responsibility for that, but will she ensure that the issue does not move off the agenda and that both Governments recognise that they have a responsibility to ensure that Greencastle and Magilligan have a ferry service, like the one in Strangford, in order to get maximum benefit from that funding?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Absolutely. I totally agree with the Member. The two projects that I outlined are major investments to help us to unlock the tourism potential of that whole area. Anything that helps to enhance that potential, including the ferry, is welcome. As you recognised, that is not within the remit of the Loughs Agency, but I fully support the service being available. It will help us to unlock that massive tourism potential. I am happy to raise that issue with the relevant people.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The Minister made reference to sampling oysters on board a ship on Lough Foyle. No doubt that is one of the perks of the job. Will she elaborate on the development of oyster stocks in the Foyle?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Absolutely. As I said, it was a great opportunity to be on board the LÉ Aisling with the Irish Navy. The fact that the Loughs Agency was able to partner with it really added to the whole atmosphere around the Turner Prize. We are doing a lot of research into oyster stocks. An initial finding is that 29 tons of oysters were recorded in the landings data received in October by the agency for the first two weeks of the oyster season, which runs from 19 September to 31 March. At this stage, it is not possible to accurately gauge the end result, but 29 tons were recorded up to October. The development of the oyster stock in Lough Foyle is a vital priority for the Loughs Agency. The agency reported an increase in the population from the data gathered in the 2012 stock assessment. That is positive. The agency assisted in the improvement of landings of the oyster fishery, and it reports a reduction in disease-related mortality in Lough Foyle. That is also positive.

At the meeting, we had a presentation from the agency on the monitoring of oyster stocks in Lough Foyle. That highlighted some of those recent improvements and trends in the population dynamics in Lough Foyle for 2013. A lot of excellent work is going on in the Loughs Agency to protect the oyster stock and make sure that it is sustainable in future for the industry. A lot of the work that the agency has been doing on Marine Stewardship Council certification for the Lough Foyle native oyster fishery has been taken forward in 2013. A lot of positive work is going on.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister previously told the House about the alarming level of poaching and, indeed, assaults on agency staff, particularly at the Foyle basin. Can she update the House on the present level of illegal activity in connection with fishing in that part of the country?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am happy to update the House. On previous occasions when I have spoken to the House in this regard, it was because of the number of attacks on Loughs Agency staff. I am pleased to report that, in 2013, there have been no major attacks on Loughs Agency staff. We all very much welcome that. I appreciate that Loughs Agency staff are often involved in potentially dangerous areas of work, given that they are enforcing regulations. They are, obviously, putting themselves at risk, but I am delighted to say that, this year, we have not recorded any major incidents. I put on record my thanks to Loughs Agency staff for their efforts in what I recognise are very difficult situations.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I apologise to the Minister for missing the start of her statement. I assure her that I have read it. The Committee is aware that one of the major issues for the Loughs Agency in carrying out its business is the lack of a management agreement for seabed leasing. Will the Minister elaborate on how far advanced the negotiations on that management agreement are? She also mentioned further efficiency savings. Will she elaborate on that?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I assure you that I have given the Loughs Agency my full support in its attempts to finalise the management agreement. I have written to Simon Coveney TD, Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and I have discussed the issue with him in person. At a previous NSMC meeting, we had a discussion about moving that forward. I was advised by Minister Pat Rabbitte that officials in his Department would liaise with Simon Coveney's Department. We hope to see some movement towards the end of the year to get that resolved. Obviously, we do not want it to slip any further.

The Loughs Agency, like any other agency, is trying to find efficiency savings in the best way possible. It has been able to do that in a very practical manner. The reports are now a matter of public record, but I am very happy to send details to the Chair of the Committee of how it has gone about finding those 3% efficiency savings.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I apologise for missing the start of the statement; I have read it as well. I thank the Minister for the statement. What steps are being taken to ensure that the issues that we had in Carlingford lough and in Foyle last year with our oyster stock are being dealt with effectively to ensure that our oyster fishermen can rebuild and develop their industry?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member will probably be aware that, in November, I met a number of oyster growers who had suffered loss as a result of the herpes virus outbreak in Carlingford over the summer. It was a very useful and very positive engagement with them. We totally share the same principle of wanting to help that aquaculture sector to grow, and I was delighted to hear from them that they are very optimistic about their future. The conversation centred around what we can do together, how I can support them through the Department and what we need to be doing. A lot of the areas that are lacking are around research, so we need to look at other countries, particularly France, for example, which has been able to deal with this issue. I think that Hull in England also experienced this disease. We need to look at best practice and good examples to see how we can learn from that.

We agreed to take forward a number of issues with the oyster growers, particularly around a research session. We will have researchers come in and let the oyster growers tell them what they require as opposed to the other way around. The oyster fishermen were very pleased about that. We are also looking towards grant aid under the European Fisheries Fund, and we will work together in the time ahead.

One of the issues that I raised at the NSMC was the need to transfer the science that we have gathered, particularly around Lough Foyle, to Carlingford also. We had a discussion around how we might best do that. So, there is plenty going on there, and I think that there are a number of issues that we need to take forward. There are a number of simpler things to iron out that the oyster fishermen raised, and I am content to take those forward.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her statement and her responses thus far. Her statement is lacking on the practical efficiency savings that the agency is undertaking. That is mentioned in point 13. Can she provide more detail on that? How successful have these been in recent years, and what are her views on the measures that the agency should apply when looking to future budgets?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said, we recently agreed the efficiencies. The corporate plan sets them out very clearly, and it is now on public record. You can have a look at a detailed breakdown of the 3% efficiency savings. The agency, like any other body, has to find those savings. It has done so quite successfully each year over the past number of years. It is on public record. I do not have the details, but I said to the Chair of the Committee that I will forward that to the Committee. I am sure that the Member can pick that up through the Committee.

Executive Committee Business

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

I call the Minister for Regional Development, Mr Kennedy, to move the Consideration Stage of the Road Races (Amendment) Bill.

Moved. — [Mr Kennedy (The Minister for Regional Development).]

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Members will have a copy of the Marshalled List of amendments detailing the order for consideration. The amendments have been grouped for debate on the provisional grouping of amendments selected list. There is one group of amendments. The debate will be on amendment Nos 1 to 4, which propose certain requirements where a contingency day falls on a Sunday. Once the debate of the group is completed, any further amendments in the group will be moved formally, and the Question on each will be put without further debate. The Question on clause stand part will be taken at the appropriate time. If that is clear, we shall proceed.

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

We now come to the group of amendments for debate. With amendment No 1, it will be convenient to debate amendment Nos 2, 3 and 4. These amendments relate to the requirements where a contingency day is a Sunday.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I beg to move amendment No 1:In page 1, line 7, at beginning insert "Subject to paragraph (1BA),".

The following amendments stood on the Marshalled List:

No 2: In page 1, line 11, at end insert

"(1BA) A contingency day may not be—

(a) the whole of a Sunday; or

(b) any part of a Sunday beginning before 1.30pm or ending after 6pm.".— [Mr Allister.]

No 3: In page 1, line 11, at end insert

"(1BB) An order may not specify the whole or part of a Sunday as a contingency day unless the Department is satisfied that the terms of the order are such as to minimise as far as reasonably practicable any disruption to the activities of the local community on that day.".— [Mr Spratt.]

No 4: In page 1, line 20, at end insert

"(1CA) Where a contingency day is a Sunday, a direction under paragraph (1C) requires the approval of the First Minister and deputy First Minister acting jointly.".— [Mr Spratt.]

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Amendment No 1 is, quite clearly, a paving amendment in respect of amendment No 2, to which I will also speak. I will perhaps make some comments on the other amendments, which stand in the names of other Members.

The purpose of amendment Nos 1 and 2 is to address, in as rational and reasonable way as possible, the tension that will exist in respect of any prospect of racing on Sunday as a contingency day. The tension that will exist will be between the ambition and enthusiasm of the road racers and their supporters to maximise the hours that they might race to make up for what they have lost in respect of the Saturday, in the event of Sunday being a contingency day, local residents, whoever they may be, who have other things that they wish to do and, in particular, those who are churchgoers living on any of these circuits.

The main focus of the debate last week, and I suspect today likewise, was on the North West 200 circuit, which is a highly populated circuit. It is populated not just by many residents but by churches on the actual route. This legislation applies across the board and to any circuit, be it on a heavily populated residential route, church route, or not. Therefore, it is right that, since there will be that same tension, to varying degrees because there will be churchgoers on all the routes — the issue is not whether there are churches on all the routes, it is whether there are churchgoers on all the routes, and of course there are — it is matter of resolving the tension between the extension of racing into Sunday and meeting the fundamental rights of the churchgoing community.

At this stage, I will pause to remind the House, because I think the Bill, in its processes to date, has not adequately addressed the human rights issues lying at the heart of this, that I wrote to the Minister raising issues under articles 9 and 11, and I cannot say that I thought the answer really addressed the issues. No doubt, if the Bill proceeds in its present fashion, the Attorney General, at the end of the process, will have to take a view on its compatibility with human rights legislation. I remind the House of article 9 of the convention, which says:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion".

It goes on to say that this includes the right to:

"manifest one's religion or beliefs, in worship, teaching, practice and observance."

It is very clear that the right to go to church is a human right.

Article 9 then goes on to underscore the circumstances where that right can be trumped, so to speak. It says:

"Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

Those are the only qualifying conditions that can be placed on the fundamental human right to exercise religion. With respect, I suggest that the right to supplant freedom to worship with the leisure activity of closing public roads so that people can enjoy road racing is not something that meets any of the categories set out in article 9. Likewise, in article 11 we have similar matters at stake when it comes to freedom of expression, which ties into article 9.

I think there is a fundamental human rights issue for the resident who lives on any of these routes and who wishes to exercise their human right to manifest their religion by going to their place of worship. That is the tension that the Bill has failed to address thus far.

That tension arises elsewhere in the world. There is nowhere more noted for its road racing than the Isle of Man. The starting point on the Isle of Man is that you do not have Sunday racing, but you can have it in a contingency situation where the weather has been such that the races must be run. However, the law on the Isle of Man is exactly what I am proposing: a contingency day cannot be before 1.30 pm on a Sunday or after 6.00 pm. The proposition in amendment No 2 is an exact reflection of what has been tried and tested for many years in the Isle of Man, which we could say is the capital of road racing. If it is good enough for the Isle of Man, I would have thought that it would be good enough for Northern Ireland. That contingency is in place to deal in a rational and reasonable way with the tension that exists so that you can accommodate the respective rights of the churchgoer with those of someone who wants to use the public roads for road racing, which prevents the churchgoer from going to church.

I made this comment last week, and I will repeat it. There is all the difference in the world between organising a racing event on private property or on property that is not a public road where people have the choice of whether to go and on what day, and organising it on a public road, where you immediately get to the point of saying, "In fact, the public roads will not be available to the public today; they will be available exclusively for road racing". That is when you trump and supplant the rights of the person who uses those roads to exercise their freedom of worship and for churchgoing. That is a legitimate and protected right, which is why I am concerned that the Bill does not adequately address that tension in a way that provides a satisfactory resolution. I want to create certainty for the local residents, for the road race organisers and participants and for those who attend. The way to create that certainty is as it has been done on the Isle of Man by saying that, if the racing is compelled to be on a Sunday, a portion of Sunday will be exempted from racing taking place to protect the interests of others on public roads. That is the essence of the amendments that I am proposing: to protect the local residents and, equally, to protect the organisers.

This Bill will have a further stage. If the amendments find favour with the House, someone who wants to fine-tune them can do so at Further Consideration Stage. If someone feels that it is overkill for a particular circuit, there will be an opportunity to address that issue. What I am putting to the House is fundamentally the principle that we need to do something to address the tension between the competing uses of the roads on a Sunday.

I also think that this proposal is a protection for the race organisers. We heard in the House — I have no reason to doubt it — that, in the case of the North West 200, people such as Mervyn Whyte, who fronts Coleraine and District Motor Club, have no inclination or desire to promote Sunday racing and will take alternatives if they can. I accept that, but they are not the only players. Huge, unspoken of players in that operation are the sponsors. Huge, unspoken of players in it are the large road-racing teams, who may not have the same respect for the sensitivities of local residents and whose prime motivation is to get the racing done, and done as soon as possible.

Indeed, given the juxtaposition of the North West week and the beginning of the Isle of Man Manx fortnight of racing, many of the large teams exit immediately the racing is over at the North West to head for the ferry to the Isle of Man. I have seen it myself. As soon as the roads open, some of the large teams head down the road, with their huge vehicles and with great fervour, to get to the Isle of Man. If racing is delayed to a Sunday, the compulsion and desire of those participants will be to get the racing over as early on a Sunday as they can so that they can still get to the Isle of Man for the start of practice on the Monday.

Whereas Coleraine and District Motor Club and others might be more than willing to accommodate people by ensuring that the racing takes place only in the afternoon, there will be pressures from sponsors and the large road-racing teams to get it started sooner, never mind the interests of the residents. That is why I suggest that the amendments are a protection for the organisers. They will be able to say, "The law is very clear. It is like the Isle of Man. No matter how much we might want to, we cannot start before 1.30 pm". It takes the pressure off the organisers, and, in that, it is a good thing.

It also gives much-needed certainty to local residents. Most residents in the vicinity whom I know are very appreciative of the North West and what it brings to the area for that week: the huge numbers, the help to the economy and all of that. It is still an inconvenience for many, but they put up with that because they recognise the greater good. Those people could be told, "In that week, you might be planning on going to church on Sunday morning, or you might be planning to do something quite the reverse of going to church on Sunday morning. However, we cannot give you any certainty that you will be able to, because there could well be racing on Sunday morning". We are talking about hundreds and hundreds of houses on this circuit. Think of the sad situation of a bereavement. The natural order may suggest that the funeral take place on a Saturday, but it cannot because the racing is on. The family accepts that and adjust their plans to Sunday only to discover that the roads are also closed on Sunday.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

In a moment.

Giving that family the certainty that the roads will not be closed, at least before 1.30 pm, indicates to them that they can organise a funeral, for example, for 12.00 noon. It will not be supplanted or overwhelmed by a sudden decision to close the roads. It is practical, humane issues like that that cause me to say that, not only in the interest of churchgoers but in the general interest of residents, we need to bring certainty to those arrangements, and the way to bring certainty to those arrangements is to have a cut-off and a finish time, as they do elsewhere.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I have listened intently to the argument that the Member has made around the whole issue of certainty. Does he not accept that, if we are looking for certainty, we would not have this Bill at all because the very essence of it is that, to a degree, it removes certainty, insofar as, if there is bad weather, there is the option of moving from a race day to a non-race day to carry out the races. So the argument the Member has made for a Sunday is the same for a Saturday, Friday or Thursday or whatever, depending on the contingency.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Of course. Flexibility is introduced. At present, we have Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday affected. The flexibility of all this could range from Monday to Sunday, with racing and practising at different times. Yes, of course there is a lack of certainty. However, the point I am making is that people who live on these circuits — and we are dealing specifically with the north-west — are familiar with the fact that there will be a practice night early in the week, a practice day later in the week and a race day at the weekend. They build their lives around that and cope in a very accommodating way. However, there is a particular issue when the contingency day is a Sunday, because it cuts across a fundamental human right that they have to exercise freedom of worship. If, for example, they are adherents of one of the four churches inside the circuit, and there is Sunday morning racing, none of those churches will be able to open. They simply will not be there. If they are adherents of a church outside the circuit — and many are — but to get to their place of worship they have to travel along the roads of the circuit, they are equally affected. So it is not just about the adherents of the four churches. It is about any churchgoer, anywhere on the route, and his rights.

The fundamental question for this House is: are we happy to trump the rights of churchgoers by the rights of racegoers or are we prepared to find a medium that can accommodate the fundamental rights of the churchgoer and the resident with the desire to have road racing?

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

The Member, as usual, makes a very compelling argument and case to the House. Is there something in his argument that he might want to address in, shall we say, the credibility of the spirit of the implementation of the legislation? That has been a very compelling argument put to the Committee in the presentations that we have heard. It seems to me that although there is an onus of responsibility that rests with the race organisers, there also seems to be a genuine spirit in addressing the very reasonable requests that the Member represents on behalf of residents.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I accept, and I think I have accepted, that organisers that I know are not straining at the leash to organise Sunday racing on the north coast. Whether they do elsewhere, I cannot say. I go back to the point that, unless the legislation brings certainty, there will be pressure to meet compulsion from the sponsor and from the large racing team that says "If we do not get racing this weekend, we will not be here next year."

That is the pressure that manifests itself on the organisers; that is the pressure that chips away at the flexibility, the compassion and the interest in meeting the needs of the local residents; that is the pressure that comes up with the proposition that we must have racing started by 11.00 am, 10.00 am or 12 noon or whatever; and that is the pressure that eats away at the rights of those who are, in consequence, affected.

I say to the House that it is better by far to bring certainty for everyone's protection, so that everyone knows where they stand. In a week when there might be a need for contingency and flexibility, they will know that there is a window that starts at 1.30 pm and finishes at 6.00 pm and, because there are other rights to be accommodated, racing cannot start at 11.00 am or whatever. That removes the pressure from those sources to start it earlier and gives an adequacy. One would hope that there would be some racing on the Saturday, as well as the opportunity, if required, to complete it. However, if all of Sunday is an open day, the pressure and the temptation will be to keep quite a lot of the racing back as the next day might just be a better day. Whereas, if you confine it to the period that respects the rights of others, in my respectful submission, you will induce a far better rapport with and outcome for residents and everyone else.

Basil McCrea (NI21, Lagan Valley)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

The racing on a Saturday has to finish by 6.00 pm. That is the law in respect of Saturday. I would have thought that, if that is the law for Saturday, it could equally be the law for Sunday. On those summer evenings, in particular, the north coast is a very busy place. Many people will want to move about and do what they do and not be hemmed in until 8.00 pm, 9.00 pm or 10.00 pm. I would have thought that, just as they are not hemmed in on a Saturday to 8.00 pm, 9.00 pm or 10.00 pm, they should not be hemmed in on a Sunday. I think that 6.00 pm is a reasonable cut-off time. If the amendment finds favour with the House but there are those who wish to refine it at the next stage, it is a matter for them to take that up and persuade the House in that regard.

Fundamentally, I think that we need to have some certainty for all these routes. I suppose that that is my biggest problem with amendment No 3. In other circumstances, and maybe the Speaker will tell us in due course, it is not incompatible with amendment No 2 and maybe both could be made. I am not sure about that; we will hear in due course.

My biggest problem with amendment No 3 is that it is so woolly. It states that:

"An order may not specify the whole or part of a Sunday as a contingency day unless the Department is satisfied that the terms of the order are such as to minimise as far as reasonably practicable any disruption to the activities of the local community on that day."

What does that mean? Why are its proponents being so mealy-mouthed about what it means? Is it meant to mean all things to all men and end up meaning nothing? Is it meant to be out of deference to churchgoers? Is it meant to be out of deference to someone else? What exactly does it mean to talk about minimising as far as reasonably practicable any disruption to the activities of the local community on that day?

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Wording such as "reasonable" is not unusual in legislation as a test. I will use some examples that the Member has used during his speech. Someone may object to a road race occurring on a Sunday not because the church is on the course, which would clearly be reasonable disruption, but because the route to their church crosses the course at some point. In a situation like that, the decision-maker would have to ask, "Is it reasonable for someone to say that the race cannot go on because they have to cross part of that road to get to church? Could they leave earlier? Could they take another route? Could they stay at someone's house or stay after church if it is on their way home?" Those are the kinds of issues that a consideration of reasonable disruption can be allowed to look at. That is much better than some kind of blanket decision that means that, if there is any objection at all, you do not facilitate racing. Those are the kinds of issues that can be looked at.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I hear what the Member says, but I still struggle to understand how the Minister, put in that position, would be expected to understand and know what would be reasonably practicable in relation to any disruption. Is the onus on the objector to acquaint the Minister, in the few hours that he has at a weekend, with what the objections are, or is the Minister entitled to say, "No one has contacted me to object. Therefore, I presume that there is no disruption to be protected against."? It seems to me to be a charter to do whatever you want, whereas what you really need to resolve the tension that will exist over Sunday racing is to apply the certainty that amendment No 2 would bring and, within that, to work propositions such as we have heard.

Basil McCrea (NI21, Lagan Valley)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

Basil McCrea (NI21, Lagan Valley)

I am interested in the point that the Member made about the term "reasonably practicable". If a decision were made, is it possible that there could be a call for a judicial review? If so, on what basis would that review take place? Who makes the decision on "as far as reasonably practicable"? I am also interested in the Member's insight into the use of the words "any disruption". That seems extremely wide in its locus. It seems that this entire piece of legislation is subject to interpretation and would probably be challenged at some stage in the courts.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister's decision would be judicially reviewable. The problem is that, if the Minister does not make a decision until a Saturday about racing on a Sunday, the opportunity is pretty sparse. The reality is that, even if you got an emergency application, it is unlikely to be heard before Monday and, therefore, the racing would be over. The court would be deciding retrospectively whether the Minister acted lawfully or unlawfully. With regard to the practicalities of affording a remedy, it is more theoretical than actual. It seems to me that that wording is so obtuse that it brings no certainty to anything and puts the Minister in an invidious position where he has all sorts of judgement calls to make, depending upon what he is hearing.

Of course, to date, the ear of the Minister and of officials has been very expertly bent by the vested interests of the road racing fraternity. Even for these amendments, a commentary has been circulated by one of the vested interests, yet the churches involved have not yet been able to meet the race organisers and met the Minister only after he had persuaded the Committee about accelerated passage. So, it seems to me that the poor relations in all this are the residents, particularly those with a churchgoing interest who might be exercised by the matter. It seems to me that their voice is going to be very hard to hear within the terms of this amendment and, in consequence, their interests and the wider interests are far better served by introducing certainty, just as they do in the Isle of Man. It seems to work very well there.

What scares us about introducing a similar element of certainty to the matter? To do so would mean that everyone would know where they stand, and the decision would not be dependent on the whim of whoever the Minister is or anything of that nature. It would be there in statute, in black and white, and everyone would know the rules.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Member for giving way. His amendment raises an issue regarding putting a time on it. This is where the flexibility comes into the whole thing. He acknowledged, rightfully, that it is not just about the North West 200, which most of the debate is around. I acknowledge that as well with regard to the churches. In terms of race organisers, my understanding from a discussion on Friday with the churches is that, for the Ulster Grand Prix, for instance, more flexibility and time is needed because all the road signage needs to be removed as soon as the course is closed and replaced before the roads are reopened. A very short time is left to carry that out. Flexibility in respect of the Department and of amendment No 3 comes in there to allow things that are practicable, regarding the legislation, to be done by the Department, organisers and everybody else.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I understand what the Member is saying, and I am aware that there are special scheduled provisions relating to the Dundrod circuit in the Road Races (Northern Ireland) Order 1986, for example, so it is not impossible that, in accepting amendment No 2 and in refining it at Further Consideration Stage, there could be some reflection of those particular needs, if those are particular needs.

I suppose I am saying that, at Consideration Stage, we have to decide whether we are going to afford to those most likely to be most affected by this some degree of comfort and certainty. If we are, I suggest that amendment No 2 is the way to go. If the Minister and others wish to refine that in the incoming week, that is the opportunity that they would have, but that would be the benchmark whereby we would start to say, "We need to bring certainty. Here is the window, and here is the window within which everyone knows they have to operate". Quite frankly, under amendment No 3, I do not think anyone would be any the wiser about what is likely to happen or how they are meant to be fixed.

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

Will the Member give way?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Yes.

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

It is good to talk this through in the manner in which we are doing. As a member of the Committee, I am pretty clear in my own mind that those who came before the Committee to give evidence or to make their positions clear did so in a manner that was open to them and to everyone. I think that that is how the Committee system works. However, doubts are being raised now, and Committees sometimes do not have the opportunities to deal with doubts, unless such doubts are presented to them.

I want to ask the Member about the doubts. It seems to me that, if the House passes legislation, it is a question of how that legislation would stand up should someone raise a challenge. The House needs to know as much about the competence of any legislation as it does about the competence of amendments. So, does the Member have information that has not been relayed to the Committee, at any stage so far, that would suggest that, without a shadow of doubt, there will be challenges to this legislation based on the case he is putting forward? That seems to me to be very important.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I do not know the answer to that, nor do I know who the Committee heard from. I have no idea who the Committee heard from. From what the Member said, it sounds as though it might have heard from the racing interests, but I am unaware of it ever having heard from the church interests. I am unaware of there having been a general invitation to those particular interests to come and make their case to the Committee. The Committee seemed very swiftly to nod to accelerated passage and move on to the matter. These are, perhaps, the sorts of issues that, in a normal Committee Stage, would have been fully explored but cannot now be explored because of accelerated passage.

Will there be challenges? I have no idea, but I would not be surprised. With many hundreds, if not thousands, of people living on that route, should they feel that their fundamental rights have been infringed in some way, someone somewhere may make a challenge. It is not for me to second-guess or gainsay that, but the challenge to the House is to pass good legislation that affords the certainty and comfort that people are looking for.

David McNarry (UKIP, Strangford)

Thank you for giving way again; it is just on the point of the challenge. If the legislation is passed and is challenged, is the challenge to the Minister on the presumption of a decision that he may or may not take or have the power to take?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I suppose that it could be all of those. Who knows? If the Bill passes as is, the Attorney General would first have to express a view on its competence, having regard to article 9, and I am sure that he will address that matter independently. Whether someone else may seek the legal route of challenge, and whether they wait until their rights are infringed in some way or they perceive them to have been infringed, who knows? I am saying to the House that, given that you have this difficulty — this tension on these issues — it is better by far to address it in a proven way by which it has been addressed elsewhere and to introduce the certainty that would militate against challenge because everyone knows where they stand.

That is why I think that amendments Nos 1 and 2 are the right way go. Amendment No 3 is very woolly, to put it at its mildest. As for amendment No 4; well, it will be no surprise if I tell the House that, if you looking for expedition, the last place you should repose any authority or power is in OFMDFM. I think that it would be tough enough for one Minister to get a decision, never mind three. So, amendment No 4 bemuses me in that regard.

That is the essence of what I want to say. I am putting to the House what I think is a rational and reasonable proposal. I trust that the House can receive it in that frame of mind and can weigh it, balance it and decide whether there might be merit in applying some certainty for the protection of everyone in that situation so that all know where they stand. They certainly will under amendment No 2, but they will have less clarity under amendment No 3.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

1. asked the Minister of Education what plans his Department has to introduce baseline assessment for all pupils. (AQO 5130/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The current arrangements allow teachers to use a range of assessment techniques that suit the nature of the work being assessed and the purpose of the assessment, including assessment for baseline purposes. While not a statutory requirement, it is good practice for transition information to be passed to parents from their preschool settings. CCEA introduced a transition form to assist that, although many settings have developed their own. Many preschool and year 1 teachers also meet in August/September to discuss children’s progress.

Teachers are required to assess and report to parents on the cross-curricular skills in the first years of every pupil’s primary education. While that does not have to be done with reference to the levels of progression until year 3, year 1 teachers may use CCEA's non-statutory development stages in learning as a baseline tool in conjunction with the information gained from the preschool and parents. The development stages also show the progression into level 1 of the levels of progression. That is intended to provide the first element of a coherent framework within which the progress of an individual pupil and/or a cohort can be monitored.

Teachers are also required to assess and report to parents on pupils' progress in areas of learning and other skills such as thinking skills, personal capabilities etc. That assessment should be carried out in accordance with the school’s own assessment policy, giving it the flexibility to suit the needs, interests and abilities of its pupils.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his response. Does the Minister not believe that baseline assessment is essential when a child enters primary 1 to identify what additional support is needed, if any, and to ensure that the child is taught at the most appropriate level?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as a cheist. I thank the Member for his question. Best practice is that baseline assessment information should be shared either between the nursery school and the primary school or, at a later stage of the child's life, between the primary school and the post-primary school. I have no plans to legislate to make it essential, but best practice dictates that it should be the case, and many of our schools carry out that work. As I said in my answer to your original question, CCEA provides forms for it to be transferred, and many settings use their own forms to do so. So I think best practice is used in the vast majority of our schools. For those schools that do not use it, I think it would be in their interest as well as that of the pupils to use it.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer, but I am not sure whether it was a yes or a no. Given what the Minister has said about the importance of teachers and given the vital role that teachers play in the assessment process currently in our schools, will the Minister listen to what teachers say, rather than what happened in the past in relation to computer-based assessments (CBA), when the Minister and the Department failed to listen and we had the disastrous situation with CBA? Will he give an assurance that context will also be taken into consideration with regard to the baseline process?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Computer-based assessment has clearly had its problems with delivery on the ground, but the principle of computer-based assessment has been broadly welcomed by teachers. Of course the Department will continue to listen to teachers, their experiences in the classroom and their professional opinion on moving these matters forward. I believe that the technical problems that existed in computer-based assessment can be resolved. We also have to look at the procurement issues around computer-based assessment and ensure that any system is allowed to bed in and teachers have the opportunity to use it for a significant number of years, to the benefit of the children and the teachers. All those lessons will continue to be learned, and I can assure the Member that I listen to teachers as I progress through policy development.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I was also listening to the Minister to hear whether it was a yes or no, and I am still not quite sure either. Minister, can you at least give us an indication of a timescale or a likely introduction date for baseline assessment for all pupils?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is interesting that Members want a yes-or-no answer in relation to assessment between nursery and primary school. The Member's party in particular has often said to me in the House, "Leave it up to the professional judgement of teachers". If it has to be statutory, I have to bring legislation before the House. We will have to set out in legislation how that assessment takes place. Is the Member then saying that I should not leave it to the professionalism of teachers? We have to make up our minds on these matters; you cannot have it both ways. Hence, I believe that the current system is capable of delivering the requirements to the benefit of the child. I do not believe that we need legislation at this time. The matter will be kept under review, but I think that, without doubt, the vast majority of our settings have a process that benefits young people and there is no requirement for legislation at this time.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

2. asked the Minister of Education for an update on his Department's management of school attendance policies. (AQO 5131/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Regular school attendance is crucial in raising standards in education and ensuring that every child has full access to the curriculum and, most importantly, reaches their full potential. The day-to-day management of pupil attendance is, of course, a matter for schools. Every school should have a clear strategy for managing and promoting pupil attendance. They must include a summary and evaluation of this in their school development plan. The Education and Training Inspectorate monitors this as part of the school inspection process.

My Department has provided guidance to schools in circular 2013/13, entitled “Attendance guidance and absence recording by schools”. It came into effect at the beginning of the 2013-14 school year and provides schools with good practice guidance and strategies to manage pupil attendance and includes an attendance policy template.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. The Minister will be aware that it has been highlighted that school attendance is a particular challenge at the moment among Protestant males. What resources is his Department putting specifically into dealing with that issue?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The issue of educational attainment among working-class Protestant males was highlighted particularly through the Purvis report and other evidence. My Department has in place policies that support all sections of our community in relation to educational underattainment, although there is also a responsibility on community leaders, political representatives and those with influence in communities to emphasise the importance and benefits of education. Of course, the Member will be aware that, if you tell a child at the age of 11 that they have failed, the child will automatically think that it is not the education system's fault but their own fault and, therefore, will disengage from education. I suggest that the Member reviews his party's policies on education if he truly wishes to raise educational attainment among Protestant working-class males.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the Minister expand in outlining to the House on what role families and communities, alongside a school, can play in improving school attendance?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Clearly, a significant responsibility rests with parents, the family and the community circle. For all children, there are simple things, such as regular bedtimes, regular times for getting up in the morning and ensuring that children have adequate time to prepare themselves for school in the morning and nutritional food is available for the child in the morning to assist the child in getting out to school. There is also encouraging the child in the importance and benefits of education and assisting the child to enjoy the educational experience.

I accept that, in a number of cases, parents themselves may well have had a poor educational experience through their fault or the fault of others in the system. However, there is a duty on all parents and guardians to ensure that their children attend school. Any issues that the child faces can be discussed with the school principal, the board of governors and, indeed, education welfare officers, who are there to assist parents and families when a child's attendance drops below a certain level. A number of mechanisms are in place, but family support, as in many other aspects of life, is crucial.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Given that attendance is not compulsory in preschool settings, what efforts are being made to develop positive attitudes among parents with regard to the attendance of their children?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Preschool education is not a statutory element of our education system. It has grown since it was introduced in 1997. Given the one-time concern about the number of preschool places available and the competition among some parents to obtain preschool places, it is only right and proper that, if you obtain a preschool place, your child attends. Considering that that stage of our education system is not a statutory requirement, there would be no point in bringing forward statutory provision on attendance. However, I think that it is a most valuable part of a child's education because it helps them to develop social and communication skills and assists in their preparation for primary school. Therefore, when parents achieve a preschool place, it is vital that their child attends regularly.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

Has the Minister had conversations with any of his ministerial colleagues either across the water or throughout the EU about how they tackle poor school attendance?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I have not had specific conversations about that with any of those Ministers. However, I have regular conversations about the education system in general, in particular with my Welsh counterpart and, indeed, my counterpart in Dublin, Ruairí Quinn. All aspects of education are covered. We are trying to achieve an education system that is attractive to our young people and delivers results both for the individual and our economy.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

3. asked the Minister of Education what role he believes integrated education can play in addressing the number of surplus places in the school system. (AQO 5132/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

All sectors have a role to play in providing a network of viable and sustainable schools to meet the preferences of parents. Given demographics over the past number of years and the projections going forward, managing the removal of surplus places is a natural consequence of ensuring that we have a system that is capable of effectively meeting the needs of our society in going forward. As there is a finite number of pupils for whom education provision is required, any growth in one sector will inevitably impact on the others. Surplus or unfilled places are defined as the difference between the approved enrolment and the actual enrolment of a school. The overall level of unfilled places will reduce only through an increase in the pupil population, a reduction in a school's approved enrolment number or a reduction in the number of schools.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his response. Given the potential for integrated schools to provide for much more sustainable education in the future, was the Minister disappointed that there was so little consideration of integrated schools in the plans produced by the education and library boards?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

All the post-primary area plans are being sifted by a steering group that includes the integrated sector. I am on record as saying that, where shared education or integrated education opportunities arise, they should be followed by the relevant authorities. I appreciate the Member's support for integrated education — I am not questioning that — but I do not believe that integrated education is the sole answer to surplus places. When you open an integrated school, an Irish-medium school, a maintained school or a controlled school, you take pupils away from one or other of the sectors or a mixture of the other sectors, perhaps the integrated sector, and you are still left with surplus places. Integrated education stands in its own right and should be promoted and facilitated in its own right, not simply as a way to reduce surplus school places.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the Minister give us his assessment of surplus places in our system and tell us what plans, if any, he has to remedy the situation?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

One of the driving forces behind area planning is the fact that we have significant surplus places in our schools estate. If we are to create a sustainable schools estate into the future, we have to deal with that in a planned way. Over a number of years, we have seen schools closing and being allowed to die on the vine, as it were, because of demographic changes or because confidence in the school, wherever it may be, has changed and the managing authorities have not been responsive to that. I believe that, through area planning, we can take a responsive role much earlier in the process either to secure the sustainability of a school into the future or to take action to close the school if necessary, while protecting the educational outcomes of the young people attending that school. I believe that we can reduce surplus places through area planning and by looking at how we budget and finance schools and how we encourage sharing in the schools estate.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

In the absence of the Education and Skills Authority (ESA), will the Minister state who should take the lead at a local level in trying to promote a shared educational pathway as a possible solution to addressing the threat to some local primary schools?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Ideally, the lead should come from parents, pupils, teachers and boards of governors of schools. That should be responded to by the managing authority, whether that be the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) or one of the boards. They should respond positively where there is a demand for a shared education programme.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

How is the demand for integrated schools ascertained in areas where integrated schools are not available?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The demand for integrated schools, as with any other school, is measured by parental preferences in responses to school places etc. It is also measured through community projects or programmes of work. In a rural area, an integrated school can be established for 12 pupils and, in an urban area, one can be established for 15 pupils if no other schools are available in the vicinity. So, the process is there and it has been simplified over the years to assist parents in promoting and bringing forward plans for integrated education.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

4. asked the Minister of Education for an update on the investigation into alternatives to, or criteria supplementary to, free school meals as an indicator of social deprivation. (AQO 5133/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

My Department is not involved in an investigation into alternatives to free school meals as an indicator of social deprivation. My Department takes the view that entitlement to free school meals is an effective indicator of social disadvantage. Free school meals entitlement has a number of characteristics that make it the most reliable indicator for identifying social deprivation. It relates to the individual pupil, so it is more robust than a spatial measure that assumes that everyone in an area is alike. It is updated yearly, so is current. It is clearly gathered at school level and is available to us as part of the census return. It is highly correlated with multiple deprivation measures and the income deprivation affecting children index.

Where appropriate, the Department utilises spatial methods of deprivation. For example, the multiple deprivation measure and information on those resident in neighbourhood renewal areas are used in a number of its programmes, such as extended schools and Sure Start. The view of the independent panel that conducted the review of the common funding scheme was that free school meals entitlement provides an indication of the relative concentration of potentially disadvantaged pupils in a given school in a way that no other indicator currently does.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for that response. Will he comment on the response from the Children's Law Centre to his proposals to reform the common funding formula? It states that the use of free school meals as a primary indicator to allocate funding fails to capture the needs of all vulnerable children; nor will it address low educational outcomes for some groups of children, particularly children with special educational needs.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I totally reject its finding. When anyone looks at my record on special educational needs, no one from a fair basis can suggest that I have discriminated against children with special educational needs in any way. No one can bring forward a sound argument that the changes to the common funding formula that I suggested, which make no changes whatsoever to funding for special educational needs, will disadvantage children with special educational needs. I reject its commentary.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat. Why is poverty and social disadvantage still a determining factor in our school and education system?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is still a factor because we have not taken any actions to robustly correct it. Those who criticise free school meals entitlement and directing more finance towards large groups of children on free school meals and who are socially disadvantaged have ignored that fact for decades. I am amazed when I hear all those people talking about the rights of children, socially disadvantaged children and special educational needs children, because they have ignored that fact for years. It is reported in the all-party Public Accounts Committee report, the independent Sir Bob Salisbury's report and other statistical information that we have that a child on free school meals is half as likely to do well in education as any other child.

I am not ignoring it, and I do not believe that, as a society, we can continue to ignore it. We have to tackle it. The consultation responses on this are currently being analysed. It is worth noting that the majority support the principle of tackling educational underattainment using identification measures. There are certainly differences of opinion about we how should do that. However, if, as a result of the consultation process, we can come together with a formula that tackles all of those issues, I am prepared to accept that formula. However, those who have ignored this for years cannot now come forward and lecture me on ignoring or infringing on the rights of any child.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer, although I do not think that the consultation included a question that specifically asked you to come up with your own ideas. Has the Minister investigated the policy of using data from super output areas, rather than individual households, as criteria for assessing eligibility to free school meals? If so, what was the result of that investigation?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

One of the principles of a consultation is, surely, having an alternative. Surely, that is the central principle of a consultation. If you ask in a consultation, "Do you agree with me or not?", that is a ballot, not a consultation. They are different, and there is certainly a duty on all of the political parties and those who strongly condemn me for using free school meals entitlement and tackling this issue to come up with an alternative. As I stated in the House before, I spent the weekend reading the political parties' consultation responses, and no alternative was provided by any of them.

On super output areas, as I said in my original response to Mr Anderson, there is a direct correlation between high concentrations of free school meals entitlement and areas of deprivation. You will not find an area of relative wealth or middle income where you have a high concentration of free school meals entitlement. You will not find an area of social deprivation where you will not find a high level of free school meals. Both of them correlate with each other, because the children, particularly those going to primary schools, travel relatively short distances to school.

We will examine all elements as to how we fund these issues. Members keep avoiding the very important fact that a child in receipt of free school meals has 50% less chance of achieving in education than a child who is not in receipt of free school meals. Someone needs to answer that question for me when they are criticising free school meals entitlement as an indicator of social deprivation. If it is not an indicator of social deprivation, it is an indicator of something. It is an indicator that that child is not succeeding in education, and we need to do something about it.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

International research, Minister, shows that there is a strong link between educational achievement and the occupation, education and economic status of the children's parents. Do you have any thoughts on including those factors in future measures of education disadvantage?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I would argue that that is exactly what I am doing. The financial position of the parents states whether a child will receive free school meals. That will mean that the parent is either unemployed or is in a low-income bracket, which probably will mean in a low-skills post. That will also indicate the educational background of the parent. I suggest that using free schools meals entitlement is doing exactly what the international research suggests I should do. It is also carrying out exactly what the Public Accounts Committee, in June of this year, and to which all of the parties in the Chamber signed up, suggested that I should do. Again, Sir Bob Salisbury's report said that I should do that. I did not wake up one morning and decide that it was a good idea to use free school meals entitlement as an indicator of social deprivation. I did not simply think, "I wonder whether there is any correlation between that and the outcome of a child's education". It is based on sound international and local research.

No one else has come forward with an alternative indicator that measures in the way that free school meals entitlement does. The fact is that some parties in this House do not want to give, and are stridently opposed to giving, more funding to schools with a higher concentration of social deprivation, regardless of how it is measured. That is the simple fact of the matter. As I have stated previously, in 2006, when the direct rule Minister forwarded a very small amount of money towards social deprivation, the DUP objected to it. This is not about what we call the indicator; it is about actually giving more money to schools in areas where there are higher concentrations of social deprivation. That is what the debate is about.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

5. asked the Minister of Education how his Department has responded to the recent Public Accounts Committee report on Improving Literacy and Numeracy Achievement in Schools. (AQO 5134/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

My Department’s response to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) report on improving literacy and numeracy achievement in schools is in the memorandum that the Minister of Finance and Personnel presented to the Assembly on 23 August 2013.

I have accepted all of the 16 recommendations that were outlined in the report, and I have provided a detailed response to each of them in the memorandum.

In particular, the PAC report also stated that the large gap in attainment between pupils who receive free school meals and those who do not cannot continue. As a result, it strongly recommended that DE undertakes a full review of the current common funding scheme to target funding to where it is most needed. That is what I have done.

Since coming to office, I have continued to implement policies to raise standards and to tackle educational underachievement in schools, and to address the gap between pupils who are entitled to free schools meals and those who are not.

Those policies include the school improvement policy, Every School a Good School; the literacy and numeracy strategy, Count, Read: Succeed; the Learning to Learn framework; and the special educational needs (SEN) and inclusion review, to name but a few.

I have also provided funding for a range of additional interventions with a focus on improving standards in literacy and numeracy across all sectors.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. Does the Minister agree with the PAC that more must be done to mitigate the effects of poverty?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I do agree, and when we are aware of the fact that 80% of a child's learning and learning experiences take place outside the classroom, we cannot ignore the family background at home and the social circumstances in which the child might find itself. We have to take that on board.

It is a challenge for some schools, for our education system and for me as Minister. The first paragraph in the Programme for Government clearly states that it will:

"grow the economy and tackle disadvantage."

I intend to do that, and I believe that this policy carries out that function.

How many reports does the Assembly have to receive on this matter time and time again? Even its own report from the Public Accounts Committee, which is one of the most highly respected Committees in the Building, first, tells you that you should review the common funding formula with a view to directing more funds towards social deprivation and free school meals, and, secondly, indicates that children on free school meals have less of a chance in mainstream education. Do I just ignore that because it is an uncomfortable conversation and may cause ripples and consternation, given that it is controversial? I heard an expert say recently that these proposals should be dismissed because they are controversial. We are politicians; we are political leaders. If we were to avoid everything that is controversial, we would achieve nothing in this society. None of the arguments presented thus far has deflected me from the point of view that we have to tackle this issue. How we tackle it is open for discussion, but I am not avoiding tackling the issue.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I listened to the Minister very carefully, and I am sure that he will agree that literacy and numeracy are the most emotive issues that we can discuss. Can he tell us, after 15 years of the Assembly and several Public Accounts Committee reports all making the same recommendations, why we still have several thousand children leaving school each year not able to read or write?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I am glad that the Member has suggested that it is over a 15-year period. I am aware of only one specific PAC report that refers to tackling the issue, which I am doing. However, if you are telling me that the PAC has been recommending this for 15 years, I will tell you why nothing significant has changed. Levels of literacy and numeracy are continuing to rise but not fast enough for my satisfaction, and the gap remains. I will tell you one of the reasons why: we have not been determined enough to do anything about it. We have avoided funding it. We cannot expect schools that are dealing with high levels of social deprivation to carry out that task on the same basis as those that are not dealing with high levels of social deprivation. We do not ask any of our other public services to do it, and it is beyond me why we are asking our school system to do it.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

That is the end of our listed questions. We will now move to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

1. asked the Minister of Education whether there has been any progress on the complete payment of incremental pay to education and library board staff. (AQT 441/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As you are aware, a two-year pay freeze for public sector workers was agreed in the 2010-11 financial year, except for those earning less than £21,000 a year, who would receive an increase of at least £250 in the two years. All the Department's arm's-length bodies (ALBs) paid eligible staff the £250 payment for 2010-11 and 2011-12. I decided that there would be a further £5 million to cover the costs of the £250 payment to all eligible education staff in the voluntary school sector and the grant-maintained integrated school sector in both the 2010-11 and 2011-12 financial years. Non-teaching staff in those sectors have not yet received the payment for either year. All the necessary approvals as required under the Executive's pay policy are now in place. Schools have been asked to supply details of all eligible staff, and over 90% of schools have responded.

The agreement for other incremental payments, which usually comes through in April, did not come through until July. I have given all approvals in my Department, but this is a public sector pay issue that has to go through the approvals of the Executive as well. We have taken measures to ensure that, in future years, this will be dealt with much more quickly, but I accept and understand the frustration of those staff who have yet to receive their payments. However, I assure the House and those staff that my Department is doing everything in its power to ensure that that money is paid out as soon as possible.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I accept the Minister's assurance, but can he assure us that no such delays will happen next year?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

We have taken a number of measures around annual pay increases and increments and split them. We have had agreement from DFP to move that forward in the manner in which we are now doing. I believe that that will decrease delays in future years, ensure that we do not run into this problem again and ensure that workers receive in proper time the payments that they are due.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

2. asked the Minister of Education for an update on his recent trip to Ontario, Canada. (AQT 442/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I travelled to Canada and America at the start of October. I particularly wanted to visit Ontario, as it has been through a programme of radical change over the past 10 years for tackling educational underachievement across the board, particularly for those from socially deprived backgrounds. The debate and discussions that I had with the Minister, senior officials, trade unionists, teachers and parents on the ground was very enlightening.

The debate that Ontario had 10 years ago is the debate that we are now having about whether to direct more funds towards social deprivation. It directed more funds, and its education gap is closing much more rapidly than ours. Ontario is seeing the education outcomes for all young people in its society, and it proudly boasts that it has one of the leading education systems in the world. It was a very useful and informative visit, and it shows that insular thinking, which we are sometimes guilty of in this part of the world, hinders us making progress on many issues.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. I am fully aware that not all lessons are transferable to this part of the world, but I wonder whether he can outline some of the pertinent examples and lessons that he brought home that we might apply to our own system.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The most obvious lesson to be learned is that, if you wish to tackle educational underachievement among those from socially deprived backgrounds, you have to fund it. You cannot wish it away, nor can you hope that the same funding system will work for those from more affluent communities and those from less affluent communities. You have to take dedicated action to resolve the issue, and Canada has achieved that.

Canada also gathers mammoth amounts of information about individual pupils. Its school censuses are very detailed about the background of a child, the background of the parents and the ethnicity of a child. It can follow children through their school career by having very detailed data and can put in place targeted systems to assist the child on its journey. I do not think that our society is ready for that just yet, but I believe that the major lesson to be learned is that, if you have the evidence to resolve an issue, you should use that evidence to resolve the issue.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

3. asked the Minister of Education whether he is satisfied that his input to and, arguably, ownership of the Employment and Learning Minister’s stage 2 review of teacher training is being fully acknowledged and is comprehensive, given his responsibility for the nature and content of teacher training, including the number trained. (AQT 443/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I have no doubt that the Member is only too acutely aware that I have no ownership of the review and that the Minister for Employment and Learning has responsibility for the review that he is carrying out. I can assure the Member that I will make input into that review in the areas where I have responsibility. I have taken part, in terms of trying to give surety to our further education colleges. I have set numbers for the next two years for teacher numbers and teacher training, which was not the practice previously. However, this is solely a matter for the Employment and Learning Minister.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for his answer. The Employment and Learning Minister said during oral answers to questions in the Chamber on 8 October that, when it comes to teacher training:

"The current situation is not sustainable."

He added that, whether you are talking about the system generally or about St Mary's:

"it is not financially sustainable today". — [Official Report, Vol 88, No 4, p22, col 2].

Are you concerned that the Employment and Learning Minister is rushing his fences and getting ahead of himself when it comes to this review, given your clear responsibilities in respect of teacher training?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

As I rise to my feet, I can read the Member's press release to the "Andytown news" and other west Belfast newspapers. I am not responsible in any way for the Minister for Employment and Learning's review or how the Minister for Employment and Learning answers questions in the Assembly. I suggest that the Member puts his name into the lottery for the next session of topical questions with the Employment and Learning Minister and asks him those questions then.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

4. asked the Minister of Education for an update on area planning in Ballymena. (AQT 444/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I can give you an update on Ballee. Consultation on the development proposal for that school ended today. My officials will receive the information from the board and collate all the information that we have gathered in relation to Ballee. At a future stage, I will make a decision on the future of that school. I do not have the information on the other school in front of me, but I am happy to share that with the Member in written form.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I think that he knew where I was going to go in the supplementary. I declare an interest as a governor of two schools in the town of Ballymena. The proposed closure of Ballee is ongoing. Does he not think that it pre-empts area planning if the school is closed before a full area planning scheme can be put in place? Would he also like to comment on the Better Way proposal that was put forward by the governors of Ballee Community High School when we met him twice?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The Member will appreciate that the consultation is now closed. It would be unfair of me — indeed, I would be in breach of my statutory duties — to give any views on whether or not the development proposal was timely. That will form part of my deliberations before I make any decision on that matter.

I have to say that I was impressed with the views expressed and the plans brought forward by the board of governors. I have had two meetings with representatives of the board of governors. As in many other circumstances that I deal with, I have to make a decision on whether those interventions have taken place in time and whether they will be able to ensure that current and future pupils will be able to achieve excellent education in that facility. Those are the deliberations that I will have to think about in the weeks ahead.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

5. asked the Minister of Education why the review of transport that he announced this morning is necessary. (AQT 445/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is a considerable number of years since we had a review of transport. The last one dates back to 1996. In the early part of the current mandate, the Assembly voted that I conduct a review of home-to-school transport in all of its elements. Today, I have set forth a review to be undertaken by Sian Thornthwaite, Margaret Martin and Tony McGonagle, who are all highly experienced in the field of education and transport issues. They will report back to me by August 2014.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he outline to the House the terms of reference for the review?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The terms of reference are quite significant in length, and I do not have them all in front of me. However, the review will look at all aspects of home-to-school transport and the financial viability of our current practice in that. Other areas that have been raised with me recently include transport provision for post-16 pupils, and it is said that choices are maybe limited by that provision. I also want to look at how we support some of the most vulnerable young people in our society in their special educational needs and at cross-border transport provision. No doubt, the terms of reference will be shared with the Education Committee. If they have not been, they will be. I am also happy to share them with other Members of the Assembly.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

6. asked the Minister of Education for an update on the proposals for a newbuild at Holy Trinity College, Cookstown. (AQT 446/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Holy Trinity was one of the newbuilds that I announced in January 2013. To bring that build to fruition, we require confirmation from CCMS in relation to area planning in that area. We need to know how it proposes to build up enrolment of that school to 1,300 pupils. I believe that CCMS has been engaging with my Department and has provided figures as to how it proposes to make that a reality. That will allow us to make progress. We will then move on to detailed design, procurement etc, which will take a number of years to complete.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Mo bhuíochas leat agus leis an Aire. Just following on from what the Minister said, has his Department not agreed pupil capacity with CCMS for the newbuild?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta. It is not a case of me having to agree. I have agreed in principle that I want to see a 1,300-pupil school at Holy Trinity College. CCMS says that it agrees and wants to see a 1,300-pupil school in that area. I believe that — I stand to be corrected; you will appreciate that I do not have all the details in front of me — CCMS is preparing plans as to how that will be achieved in the period ahead. I am not concerned in relation to the matter. Holy Trinity College has the green light; I know that because I gave it to it. That build will take place in the next number of years. It is a core, central school in that constituency and will continue to be so only in a new building.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

7. asked the Minister of Education for an assurance that CCMS is free to approach either the Donegal vocational education committee or local schools to explore a cross-border learning community for that area, given that, last week, along with MLAs from other political parties, he met the chief executive and deputy chief executive of CCMS to discuss the future of Brollagh and was informed that they have procedural difficulties in approaching schools or managing authorities in the South to explore possible partnerships. (AQT 447/11-15)

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I am not aware of any power that I have to stop them carrying out such exploratory work and engaging with schools across the border. If they require my permission to do so, I assure you that I will give it. I am not aware of a power to stop them. If it is a case of me having to go through protocols and inform Minister Quinn or, indeed, the Department of Education and Science in Dublin, I am more than happy to do so. My main interest in this is to ensure that we have a viable, sustainable educational facility or facilities in that area.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Work that has been done in the local area demonstrates that more than the required number of 24 subjects can be delivered at GCSE level if there is a partnership with schools in Ballyshannon and Bundoran. However, given the reluctance of CCMS to bring forward or look at this matter, is the Minister inclined to discuss this at some future stage with the Minister of Education in the South, Ruairi Quinn?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I am happy to raise the matter with Minister Quinn, either at one of our formal meetings or in an informal discussion. I have a meeting with the area planning steering group this week and that might present an opportunity for me to raise the matter, or CCMS may well raise the matter with me at that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

1. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline the rationale for the review of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. (AQO 5145/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Arm's-length bodies are reviewed periodically. The review of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board and wider tourism structures follows my recent review of the Consumer Council and the independent review of economic policy report in 2009, which reviewed the functions of Invest Northern Ireland. With the success of ni2012 and, indeed, continued success in 2013, now is an opportune time to undertake the review to ensure that we have the optimum structures in place to deliver the tourism targets that are set out in the Programme for Government and the economic strategy.

John Hunter, a retired civil servant, has agreed to undertake the review. The review will also look at the opportunity presented by RPA to maximise the impact of local tourism structures.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her response. I am glad that the Minister agrees with the Ulster Unionist Party that Northern Ireland is a unique tourist destination. Will the Minister tell us how she plans to address the 9% drop in the number of visitors coming to Northern Ireland for the first time?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That may be an Ulster Unionist policy, but it is very clear that that party may be agreeing with me on the fact that Northern Ireland has a unique proposition.

I have looked at the figures for tourists coming to Northern Ireland that came out recently. I was very pleased to see another increase in the number of tourists coming to Northern Ireland, particularly those from GB, which is our biggest market. It is very good to see that the numbers are up for those visitors by 18%. I recognise that there has been a drop in the number of visitors from the Republic of Ireland of some 14%. However, overall, the figures are up by 6% for visitors from outside Northern Ireland. The number of visitor nights spent in Northern Ireland increased by 5% in the first six months of 2013.

Statistics are there, and people can take different stories out of those. However, I am very encouraged by the headline statistic that the figures are, yet again, going in the right direction.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for her answers so far. Does the Minister agree with me that the recent C S Lewis Festival in east Belfast was hugely successful? That was supported by the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. That is the sort of event that we should encourage the Northern Ireland Tourist Board to be involved with in future.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Absolutely. I commend the Member for the work that he put into the C S Lewis Festival. I was privileged to attend one of the events. I would have liked to have attended more but, unfortunately, I was outside the jurisdiction for most of the festival on a trade mission to Dubai. I was delighted to see the first C S Lewis Festival get off the ground.

Obviously, C S Lewis was one of our literary stars. In the past, he has not received the attention that he deserves. At the event that I was able to attend, I think that I said that I really believe that, like the Beckett Festival in Enniskillen, we can make those literary festivals annual events on the calendar for people to come to areas of Northern Ireland and really get to know about the individuals involved. In parentheses, I was really pleased that, at last, C S Lewis has been honoured with a memorial stone in Westminster Abbey. That was a very fitting thing to happen.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister for her responses. Will the Minister provide us with some detail on what discussions she has had with Executive colleagues about the future of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I have not had any discussions with Executive colleagues because the review has just begun. As I indicated, John Hunter is undertaking that review, and he will speak to whoever he needs to and come back with his views on the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. Where there is a need for change, he will point that out. Where there is no need for change, I am sure that he will point that out as well. Tourism sits within my portfolio. Therefore, I have taken the decision that there needs to be a review.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answers. In her substantive answer, she mentioned the drop in visitors from the South. Would the Minister like to take this opportunity to call on those who are out on the streets engaging in parades and protests to come off the streets? That is having a negative impact on visitor numbers from the rest of Ireland.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member would do well to read an article by Ivan Little in today's 'Belfast Telegraph', which states that Saturday was a triumph for hope over hype. I think that there was a lot of hype in the lead up to last Saturday. Undoubtedly, there will be some people, even in this Chamber, who may be disappointed that the event passed over peacefully. I have to say that it is disappointing that there are those who try to make political points while the rest of us are interviewed. If the Member wants, I will give way.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

2. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to outline her strategy to tackle the current high levels of emigration. (AQO 5146/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Northern Ireland economic strategy sets out the Executive’s collective approach to growing the local economy and creating prosperity and employment. By growing the economy and creating skilled, high-paying employment opportunities, we will encourage our talented people to remain in Northern Ireland and, hopefully, attract back those who may have emigrated in recent years.

Latest available data shows that the number of employee jobs increased by more than 5,000 in the year to June 2013, with over 3,000 of that increase coming in the last quarter. By the end of September, Invest NI had promoted over 17,200 jobs in the Programme for Government period. That is significantly ahead of schedule with respect to the delivery of our Programme for Government jobs target. Indeed, of the 6,600 jobs promoted through the jobs fund, 3,525 new jobs have already been created.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, arís, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Given that thousands of our best educated young people are in the likes of Australia out of economic necessity not choice, and given that many are saying that there are no job opportunities to entice them home, is there any determination on the part of the Minister and her Department to direct graduate job schemes and potential inward investment to those areas of highest emigration and unemployment, including West Tyrone?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

First, the Member makes a statement that there is nothing to come home to, when he knows that, particularly in his constituency, we have made a number of significant job announcements in the past short time. Terex, Telestack and Frylite have all come forward with jobs, and he should be welcoming those job opportunities and saying that there are job opportunities in his constituency for people to come back to. It is not just about the perception of those young people who leave for whatever reason. Sometimes, they leave for economic reasons, and, other times, they leave to gain experience in different countries, and I think that is a good thing for Northern Ireland, as long as we have the jobs available for them to come back to. We have those jobs available in West Tyrone, and he should be going forward and making sure that those young people know about those job opportunities.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

Can the Minister provide a breakdown of the number of people who are leaving Northern Ireland and those who are coming in? Can she give an assessment of the figure that people give off about when they say that nobody is doing anything?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Over the past 15 years, the trend has been for net immigration to Northern Ireland, with, on average, around 22,000 people each year coming to settle here. In 2011-12, immigration to Northern Ireland was 23,000, so that is people coming to live in Northern Ireland. Last year, 25,000 people emigrated from Northern Ireland. So, there was a 2,000 net plus for us last year, whereas, over the past 15 years, it has tended to be in and around the fact that there are more people coming into Northern Ireland than leaving Northern Ireland. As you can see, there are quite a lot of people going out of Northern Ireland, but there are also quite a lot of people coming into Northern Ireland. So, ordinarily, it levels itself out throughout the year.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Are there any specific initiatives to target those people who have left, tell them about all the opportunities that you mentioned and attract them back?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

One of the ways that we do that now is through the Northern Irish Connections piece. When we go out to the different regions, we always make sure that we touch base with those people who have an interest in Northern Ireland, are from Northern Ireland or generally want to help Northern Ireland to grow. I have been very pleased to make a number of contacts through that Northern Irish Connections piece. A lot of times, it has been with some young people in the different regions, such as South Africa, America or, indeed, Dubai just very recently. We want those people to talk positively about Northern Ireland and the job opportunities that there are here at home, and we want to try to get those people to come home after they have gained experience in a different market, because the experience that they gain can be a real game-changer for us in Northern Ireland when they bring it back to us.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

3. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment how many sole traders and limited companies have entered bankruptcy or liquidation in the Down District/Newry and Mourne Council areas, in the past five years. (AQO 5147/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Department does not keep statistics of insolvencies broken down by council areas. The total number of sole traders and limited companies in the South Down constituency that have entered bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation in the past five years is 296. That figure does not include companies that have entered into a creditors' voluntary liquidation or an administration.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her answer thus far. What steps has the Minister taken to improve access to credit, particularly for small and medium-sized businesses?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

There is a range of access-to-credit programmes available, from the very small business loans from £1,000 up to £50,000 to the growth loan fund, which has been very successful. It has been rolled out by WhiteRock Capital Partners on our behalf. They have made just under 60 loans across Northern Ireland. I think that Invest Northern Ireland has created six access-to-finance programmes. That is a recognition that the banks have not been working with small and medium-sized businesses in the way in which we would have liked them to. The way in which we have intervened most recently is through the agrifood loan scheme, through which we hope to help those people who want to play an integrated part in our agrifood sector. We can help them to make the initial investment, first, in the poultry sector, to allow them to get the house up so that they can develop for the poultry sector and help to grow the industry. So, we have taken a lot of interventions in relation to access to finance.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

4. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what potential job creation opportunities have been identified for South Antrim in the past 18 months. (AQO 5148/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

In the past 18 months, my Department and Invest Northern Ireland have been working with the full range of businesses across the South Antrim constituency to encourage business growth and to increase employment opportunities. In total, Invest Northern Ireland made 447 offers to locally and foreign-owned companies in the constituency between April 2012 and September of this year. Invest NI has provided £9·7 million of assistance, which will contribute to £34·5 million of investment and promote almost 336 new jobs in South Antrim. In addition, over 30 offers of support, worth a total of £4 million, will see £11 million invested in research and development by companies in South Antrim. There have been 119 new business starts in the constituency over the same period, which have created over 100 new jobs, and there are 47 jobs fund projects at various stages of development, with the potential to create over 200 new jobs in total.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for that response and, in doing so, welcome those jobs that have been promoted and those that have been created. Invest NI has a very large land bank in South Antrim, consisting primarily of the Global Point site. What is the intention in respect of that land bank?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member is right. We hold a lot of land in the South Antrim constituency. In seven locations, we have 394 acres, of which 106 acres remain available to support economic development projects brought forward by qualifying business. He mentions the Global Point business park. Of course, while full planning approval for the business park was achieved in 2008, a number of the planning conditions have resulted in protracted engagement with stakeholders by Invest NI to ensure a satisfactory resolution. I certainly would like to see a resolution in relation to Global Point as soon as possible.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer and congratulate her on the jobs and the work that has gone on. Is there a friendly way of working with Invest NI to make sure that, where it feels it cannot help somebody, people are looking at how else they can be helped to help the businesses that are there, because one or two fall by the way and find that they get a very firm no rather than a yes, maybe.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am disappointed to hear that. I would hope that, if Invest NI was not able to help a business, particularly a small business, it would signpost it to other areas of help, such as the local Enterprise NI, which has been very helpful to small businesses in my constituency. I am sure that the Member recognises the work that Enterprise NI does right across Northern Ireland. In fact, it runs the regional Start programme for Invest Northern Ireland. However, if the Member has any specific issue, I am quite happy to look at it for him.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I remind Members that that was a particular constituency question.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her answers up to now, and I thank the Chair for warning me of where not to go. However, I want to expand this a little by asking the Minister how she will ensure that people across the North will get fair and equitable employment.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I think that the question was very particular on this occasion, so we will move on.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

5. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment what support her Department can provide for a new hotel in Downpatrick. (AQO 5149/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

New hotel developments may benefit from capital support from Invest Northern Ireland if the promoter can demonstrate that the project is market driven and capable of attracting visitors from outside Northern Ireland and that it will not displace business from similar projects. New hotel projects offering at least 30 rooms may be considered for support.

Jim Wells (DUP, South Down)

As the Minister may be aware, the former Abbey Lodge Hotel in Downpatrick was demolished six years ago. As a councillor and an MLA, I strongly welcomed the approval of a planning application for a new hotel. Since then, nothing has happened. Will the Minister continue to keep this matter under review to see what can be done? I think that it is a dreadful situation that a town the size of Downpatrick does not have a modern hotel of any description.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Member is right, and, indeed, there were some discussions in 2009 and 2010 between the Invest NI tourism team and those who were seeking to develop a new hotel on the former Abbey Lodge Hotel site. However that did not reach a positive conclusion, and there has been no further contact since December 2010. Of course, if there are new plans, or if they have been revisited, we stand ready to look at those and will, of course, be as helpful as we can in all the circumstances.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her response. I am sure that she knows how important the tourism sector is to the good people of south Down, particularly as we see it as a good economic recovery opportunity. I welcome the efforts locally for a new hotel in Downpatrick. What has the Minister done to improve the competitiveness of hotels, given that, in the Republic, the VAT rate is only 9%?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Yes, indeed they do, and that is one of the big issues for the Northern Ireland Hotels Federation. It is one of its five Ts that the federation talks about now. Of course, VAT is a Westminster issue. I have said to them that I will assist them in any way that I can, because it is very difficult for hotels and accommodation providers and, indeed, for those who provide food and drink. When they are along the border, they are competing with those just across the border who have a very different and attractive VAT rate.

So, we will work with the representative bodies in the tourism sector, along with the Tourist Board and Tourism Ireland, to try to make companies as competitive as we possibly can. That may well be through training to make sure that we have all the appropriate skills so that we can get an edge in that piece of work. However, it is also through the jobs fund, which we have used. The tourism development scheme and the money that is available from Invest Northern Ireland for hotels is capital money, but we have also used the jobs fund to help hotels across Northern Ireland to take on new staff and to grow. So, the jobs fund is available to the hotel sector as well.

Maeve McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I listened to the Minister's comments about the jobs fund. Does the Minister have specific proposals on how she will activate the opportunity to increase the return to the local economy from the local hotel industry?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As I indicated, the jobs fund has been very useful for that. In her own city, £70,000 was offered to City of Derry Hotel Ltd for a very well-thought-out £500,000 expansion.

I have had the pleasure of visiting the expansion that took place there. It is about trying to make us more competitive and using our finances in a way that does not fall foul of European state aid rules. That is always a challenge for us when we look at new ways to help an industry. We will continue to work with the Hotels Federation and, indeed, all the other representative bodies in all the campaigns that they run.

Bronwyn McGahan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

6. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of figures showing that over 23,000 businesses have ceased trading between 2007 and 2011. (AQO 5150/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Looking at business closures in isolation does not give the full picture. Although over 23,000 businesses ceased trading, almost 24,000 began trading during the same period. When Northern Ireland is compared with the rest of the UK, it has the lowest business death rate of all 12 regions. However, it is an inevitable part of being an outward-looking economy that less competitive businesses will close down. That is why Invest NI focuses its support on local firms that are highly competitive and export-focused.

Bronwyn McGahan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for her response. Given the extent of business closures and the current economic challenges, does she agree that the capacity for economic recovery would be enhanced if we had the necessary tools to grow the economy?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is why we keep pushing for corporation tax powers to come to Northern Ireland. We look forward to a decision by our Prime Minister after the Scottish referendum takes place next year. If we are able to secure corporation tax powers, that will certainly give us a competitive edge, particularly against the Republic of Ireland, which has a low level of corporation tax. If we have that tool in our box, it will make a real difference.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

The Minister will be aware that a recent report has shown that, apart from difficult trading conditions, many businesses have been caused to cease trading because of the activities of banks, particularly RBS. Will she indicate to the House what steps she intends to take to ensure that any actions of Ulster Bank in putting people into liquidation so that it can seize their assets will be looked at either by the Treasury or the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills in their investigations of the scandalous activities of RBS?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Clearly, the findings of the independent lending review report on RBS and, indeed, the Tomlinson report on banks' treatment of businesses are very distressing to those concerned. The key finding from Tomlinson's report — that there are circumstances in which banks unnecessarily engineer a default to move businesses out of local management and into their turnaround divisions, thereby generating revenues through fees, increased margins and devalued assets — is a very serious matter for us here. As I understand it — I stand to be corrected — the Tomlinson report only covered RBS globally, and I would be very interested to see what the situation is with Ulster Bank. I welcome the fact that the bank has appointed a leading firm to look into these matters. The Member can rest assured that the Finance Minister and I will raise the issue with the bank in the very near future. We will also take the matter to the next joint ministerial task force on banking and access to finance, because it is a hugely serious issue. I know that the Member has met — as, indeed, have I — individuals and companies that have made allegations such as those in the Tomlinson report. We need to bottom out those issues and try to deal with what we have been left with. If it is the case that the practice went on in Northern Ireland, it is, as I said on the radio last week, an absolute scandal.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

7. asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment for her assessment of her Department meeting the target for new investment over the next two years. (AQO 5151/11-15)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

One of the Programme for Government's key commitments is to achieve £1 billion of investment in the economy by March 2015. I am very pleased to say that, despite the uncertain economic conditions, we have achieved over £900 million of investment so far. I expect to exceed the original target substantially by the end of the current Programme for Government period.

Maurice (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her very encouraging answer. On reflection, does she feel that she underestimated in this instance?