Northern Ireland Assembly, 9 June 2014

260 contributions from 56 members. The official report.

Matter of the Day

William Hay (Speaker, Foyle)

Mr Jim Allister has been given leave to make a statement on the farming tragedy in Dunloy, which fulfils the criteria set out in Standing Order 24. Other Members will know that, if they want to be called, they should rise in their place and continue to do so. All Members will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that I will not take any points of order or discuss any other matter until this item of business has been dealt with by the House.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I am sure that we all recall the great cloud of despair and sorrow that descended on the Province in the autumn of 2012, when three members of the Spence family tragically lost their life. Sadly, on Saturday afternoon, we had a revisiting of such horrendous circumstances, this time in the constituency of North Antrim and made all the more poignant by the fact that the primary victim of the tragedy was but an eight-year-old boy who lost his life. His father is fighting for his life after they were overcome by the unseen killer of noxious gases from a slurry tank. I am sure that the hearts of us all go out to that family: to the devastated mother, Simone, and the boy's two elder sisters, Isobel and Alice, and, of course, our thoughts are very much with the father, Bertie, as he struggles to overcome what has beset him.

I am sure that it is the prayer of us all that he will recover because that family will need the strength and support of a father in the coming weeks and months.

Our thoughts today are also with the community in the Knockahollett area and the Ballyweaney Church community, the Presbyterian church to which the Christie family were attached. Tomorrow it will host a very sad event.

Our thoughts are also today with Knockahollet Primary School, which faces the first of many sad days. Yesterday, when I spoke to the principal and he talked about young Robert, it was clear that he was exactly the sort of young boy that any one of us would be privileged to have as a son or grandson. A great void will be felt in the family, first and foremost, and in the wider community and in the school community, where they will also have to cope with the fact that the two elder girls are pupils. When they return to school, they, too, will need all the pastoral care and love that a country primary school excels at. I have every confidence that that will be provided to them.

I am glad to have the opportunity to raise this issue. It is also important to reflect on the scale of losses on our farms. Many take farming for granted but it is a dangerous occupation: 40 people have lost their life in six years. That is a sobering statistic, and I think that we all would exhort that the maximum care and attention be given to all things in the agricultural field.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

It is with a great sense of sadness and loss that we stand in the House today to recall the tragic events that unfolded on Saturday morning on a farm on the Ballynaloob Road in the constituency of North Antrim.

How true are the words of scripture:

"Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow."

As a community in Ballymoney, we were being thankful and appreciative of our farming community at the annual agricultural show. It was only as the news began to pass through the show that the sheer horror of all that was taking place began to descend upon us. Little did we think what was going to be the story that would unfold.

At the outset, I extend my sincere sympathy and that of my colleagues to Bertie and Simone on the death of their much-loved and cherished son, Robert Thomas Stephen Christie, and to his sisters, Isobel and Alice, and the wider Christie family circle, we offer our sincere sympathy and our continued prayers.

I worked with Robert's mother, Simone, prior to coming to this House, in what was then the Lovell and Christmas bacon company. Many happy days were spent there. I know that, today, as a mother, her heart is breaking. We continue to pray for Bertie's life to be preserved as he makes, we trust, a recovery. As a parent and a grandparent, I cannot begin — nor can anyone in this Chamber today — to imagine the sorrow and the heartbreak that have descended on the Christie home.

I had the opportunity yesterday afternoon to spend some time with the principal of Knockahollet Primary School, Mr Gerry Black. I pay tribute to the North Eastern Education and Library Board, in the person of Mr Ray Gilbert, for all the help that he gave yesterday afternoon in ensuring that the staff of the school, in the best way possible, could prepare for what they had to deal with this morning as they visited the classroom in the absence of Robert. I pay tribute to and remember in our thoughts the minister and congregation of Ballyweaney Presbyterian Church as they prepare for the funeral service tomorrow, and those members of Ballinaloob Gospel Hall whose afternoon Sunday school Robert attended.

Let us not be unmindful of the huge work and dedication that was shown by our emergency services: the Coastguard, Fire Service, Ambulance Service, Police Service, Post Office service staff, and the Causeway and Royal Victoria hospitals. We are very quick, sometimes, to be critical; it does us all well to be thankful for what they have done.

I want to leave the House with words that we would all do well to contemplate, even as we consider the funeral tomorrow and the days that lie ahead. Human comfort is so many times limited, but when we turn to the word of God, it tells us in the Book of Deuteronomy, chapter 33:

"The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms".

It is our prayer that the Christie family may know those everlasting arms today and in the days, weeks and months that lie ahead.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I rise to add to the messages of condolences for the Christie family. The events of the weekend sent shock waves throughout the north Antrim area, the local community in Knockahollett and Dunloy, and the farming community across the North. The tragedy echoes the accident a number of years ago involving the Spence family and highlights, as the proposer of the debate said, how dangerous farms can be.

Many people do not realise how dangerous slurry tanks are. I spoke recently to a constituent whose father was overwhelmed when dealing with slurry and has been shaken and nervous about carrying out that farm duty ever since. Nobody should underestimate how dangerous the farm place is.

Like other Members, I commend the emergency services for their swift actions and efforts on Saturday, and for their ongoing efforts to save the life of Bertie in hospital. The small community in Knockahollett is tightly knit. I travel through it frequently. The Ballynaloob Road is a short road from Dunloy and The Drones to Ballycastle that I frequently use. It will forever be etched in my memory for, unfortunately, the events of the weekend.

They will be in all our thoughts and prayers as the school and Church community there struggle to deal with what is an unimaginable loss for many of us, particularly those of us with young families. It must be an unbearable loss for any family to suffer. Our thoughts and prayers are certainly with the family and community in Knockahollett in the time ahead.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

As agriculture spokesperson for my party, I very much sympathise with the Christie family on the tragic loss of young Robert and hope that his father will recover. I commend Mr Allister for bringing this notice to the Chamber.

Obviously, farming is a dangerous business. One of the sad things is that young boys love to be around the whole farming enterprise, and that is what is so heart-rending for those in the farming community. All I can say is that our prayers and sympathy are with the family and community in the Dunloy area. Going forward, I hope that these farm accidents will lessen. The Farm Safety Partnership offers some hope for the future, but that is for another day. We totally support the expressions of sympathy and condolences to the family.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank Jim for bringing the matter to the House to allow us all to express our sympathy and support for the Christie family.

No family should ever have to go through the pain of the loss of a child in any circumstance, and especially not in circumstances like this. Our thoughts and prayers will be with the Christie family in the difficult days that lie ahead, and tomorrow, at the funeral of young Robert in Ballyweaney Presbyterian Church, where the family will get a chance to say a final farewell to their son.

However, we have to bear in our thoughts that, at that time, Simone, Isobel and Alice will be going through a very difficult day without the presence and guiding hand of husband and father, Bertie, as he recovers. Everyone in the House hopes that Bertie recovers to full strength and can come back to his family. We all must realise just how fragile the thread of life is when we are talking about somebody as precious, bubbly and vivacious as young Robert was, as has been described by his headmaster and the pastor who looked after his Sunday school. As we all recognise, farms are a dangerous place, but, as we all know in Northern Ireland, they are also a family place. We remember and think of the Christie family at this time.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

On behalf of the Alliance Party, I echo the comments that have already been made and extend our sympathy to the whole Christie family following the terrible circumstances at the weekend. We hope that Bertie can make a full recovery. Yet again, we are focused on a farm tragedy, made all the worse because a young child was involved. We have had similar tragedies in recent times, and many ask how these accidents are still able to happen. Unfortunately, the situation is that there is no such thing as a safe slurry tank, and we all need to recognise the dangers that our farmers put themselves in on a day-to-day basis. Our thoughts and prayers will remain with the Christie family and the wider community in the days, weeks and months ahead.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I want to associate myself with the very many comments and expressions of sympathy that have been made in the Chamber, from all sides. Mr Allister, quite rightly, in bringing forward the matter, highlighted several things, including the support that the family will need, tomorrow at the funeral and in the days, weeks, months and years that lie ahead. We hope and pray that the husband and father makes a full recovery.

The statistic that Mr Allister quoted to highlight the dangers of farming was that 40 lives have been lost in six years. That is a startling statistic, and I say that as someone from a farming background who was in full-time farming for a number of years before coming to the House, and I say it as a father.

The pain and sense of loss that the family must feel today is something that no one should have to face. There is a break in the natural cycle of things when burying a child, particularly a child of such a tender age. It must be devastating for any family and community to face up to. As colleagues have said, it is vital that the schools, the Church and all the surrounding community stand with the family and support them in the time ahead. I am sure that the family is very much in the thoughts and prayers of the entire House. On my part, I will keep them in my thoughts and prayers in the months and years ahead.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I commend the Member for bringing this forward as a Matter of the Day. My heart, my thoughts and my prayers are with the Christie family today. They are a very well-known and respected family in the area and in the wider north Antrim area. My thoughts and prayers go to Bertie as, hopefully, he will recover, along with his wife Simone and daughters Isobel and Alice. I pray, Lord, that they get through this not only in the next few hours and days that follow, with the help and support of the community and everyone joining with them, but in the lonely times when, hopefully, Bertie will recover and everyone is away from the house and they are left with their own thoughts. They still have to work the farm, and our thoughts and prayers will be with them always. Their wider family circle reaches far, even to my home village of Broughshane, where they have extended family who have also experienced tragedies of the same ilk. Our thoughts and prayers go out to them also at this very sad time.

Our thoughts and prayers should be with the emergency services who were able to react but, sadly, were not able to save eight-year-old Robert's young life. We should commend their work and their professionalism. Our thoughts and prayers should also go to the professionals and the workers of the Health and Safety Executive because they will have to investigate this incident. We should also acknowledge the work that the Ulster Farmers' Union has done lately with the farm safety partnership in trying to raise awareness of the dangers of the farm. This is one of the most difficult and most lethal health and safety issues on-farm. This is a killer that sneaks up and which you cannot see, smell or hear.

Although questions will be raised, we should reflect on the loss and pain that the family must bear now. Our thoughts and prayers will be with them forever.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

Today is a day of tragedy. As my party's agriculture spokesperson, I want to convey our deepest sympathies and condolences to the Christie family, who have lost an eight-year-old child only on the threshold of life. That child had everything to live for, and now we have lost him. It is every parent's worst nightmare to have to bury your own child. I had the experience of that with my sister.

We know the dangers of working on a farm. It is one of the most dangerous places that anybody could work and here we have another example of that. We pray that Bertie Christie makes a full recovery and returns to the family, because they will need the head of the house there for guidance in the days, weeks and years ahead. My party's deepest sympathies and condolences go out to the family today.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I, too, rise to extend my deepest sympathies to the Christie family at this time, when I do not think that any of us can fully see the depths that this family has now been plunged into. For all of us who live in a rural constituency and who represent a rural constituency, whenever we hear of an incident on a farm such as this, our hearts always sink when we think of the impact that it has on a farming community, which is more than a community; the relationship that farmers have with one another is more like a family, particularly in an area such as this. To hear that it was affecting the North Antrim constituency made it all the more poignant for those of us who have the privilege of representing that area.

We wish Robert senior a speedy recovery. We hope that he will return to full health and strength as quickly as possible.

We extend our deepest and sincerest sympathies to Simone, Isobel and Alice as they try to get on with life in the aftermath of this terrible and immeasurable tragedy.

My colleague Mr Storey quoted scripture as a form of comfort. I do not believe that, in my three years here, that is something that I have ever done. However, when I thought about the family and the depths to which they had been plunged, one verse came to mind. It is Psalms chapter 116, verse 15, in which David says:

"Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints."

I believe that little Robert, although his life on this earth was cut far too short, is now with his God in heaven and has an eternity to enjoy in a much better place than here. Although the Christie family's lives on this earth will never be the same in the aftermath of this terrible tragedy, I hope that they can take credit and comfort from the fact that their little boy is in a much better place.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

My sympathy goes out to the Christie family on the tragic death of their son, Robert. I, probably more than most in the House, know the awful pain that comes from losing a child, having lost a young son myself just over 17 years ago. My thoughts and prayers are with the family in the days ahead. They will be very difficult for the family. We hope and pray that the Lord will be with them and be their guide through those difficult days.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I just want to add my voice of condolence and sympathy to the Christie family. I did not know little Robert Christie, but when I looked at the photographs of him, I felt as if I did, because I, too, have a young boy who is mad about farming and who would spend all his days on the farm if he could. When I looked at the little photograph of him sitting on a tractor, my heart just broke as I thought of the pain that the family is going through now. He is the youngest child and the only son. There will be very many difficult days ahead. I hope that the Christie family find great comfort from their faith. I hope that they find great comfort from the fact that the community will rally around them. I pay tribute to the school, the board and the emergency services.

As Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, I also want to pay tribute to those from the Health and Safety Executive who will investigate the matter. I never like to get a phone call from the chief executive of the Health and Safety Executive at the weekend. Unfortunately, that is what I got on Saturday afternoon. When I saw his number, I knew that there had been a tragedy somewhere in Northern Ireland. When it involves a child, it is always much more difficult to take in and deal with.

Children on farms can be particularly vulnerable. We will continue to work with local schools and the Farm Safety Partnership. This is not a day for looking at what needs to be done about farm safety. However, I will say this: there is a lot of information and advice out there on safe farming. I ask that people stop for a moment and think safe, because the consequences are too painful to think about, as indeed the Christie family have to deal with now and for the rest of their lives.

Ministerial Statement

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will inform Members of the outcome of the public consultation on future consumer representation arrangements in Northern Ireland.

In October 2012, DETI commissioned an independent review of the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland to ensure that the council's consumer advocacy role in Northern Ireland is delivered by the most appropriate body or bodies; is structured and positioned correctly in government or otherwise; is operating efficiently and effectively; and is fit for purpose in moving forward with the Executive's consumer and wider economic aims.

During the review, a number of stakeholders were consulted on their views of the council and areas for potential improvement. The review concluded that the Consumer Council has been responsive to consumers and effective as an organisation. However, it also concluded that the political and consumer landscape has changed significantly since the council was formed in 1985 and that the continued existence of the Consumer Council may no longer be essential to consumers, nor may it be the most cost-effective mechanism for consumer representation in Northern Ireland.

The review recommended the abolition of the Consumer Council and the transfer of its functions, apart from the regulated industries function, to Citizens Advice NI. That recommendation is reflective of the recent changes that have been made to the consumer landscape in Great Britain, where Citizens Advice has assumed responsibility for consumer representation.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Following consideration of the review report and its recommendations, I decided that there should be a public consultation on the future arrangements for consumer representation in Northern Ireland. I launched the consultation with a statement to the Assembly on 14 October.

Three main options for the future delivery of consumer representation in Northern Ireland were presented for comment. Those were: the continuation of the current Consumer Council model of an arm’s-length body of the Executive to represent the consumer; the establishment of an independent consumer representative body outside government; and the abolition of the council and the transfer of the consumer representation role, including the regulated industries role, to an existing non-government advice body or bodies.

In addition to seeking written responses, six public meetings were arranged at venues across Northern Ireland. The consultation closed on 17 January 2014, and I can now advise the Assembly of its conclusions. A total of 286 written responses were received during the consultation. I thank those who took the opportunity to provide their views either in writing or at the public meetings. I have now had the opportunity to consider carefully the issues that were raised. The consultation responses, records of the meetings and a report providing an analysis of the issues that were raised are being made available on the departmental website.

Overall, the consultation demonstrated strong support for the retention of the current non-departmental public body (NDPB) model for the delivery of consumer representation in Northern Ireland. There was minimal support for the transfer of the consumer representation function to Citizens Advice, as recommended in the independent review of the Consumer Council.

Concern was expressed that the changes that have been made to the consumer landscape in Great Britain, with the transfer of the consumer representation role to Citizens Advice, have not had the opportunity to bed down yet and that an assessment of their impact and effectiveness would be required before Northern Ireland should consider adopting a similar approach. However, while there was support for the retention of the NDPB, there was also a view that there was scope to improve the current representation model, and respondents highlighted the need to reform and streamline its role and approach.

Some concerns were raised about the Consumer Council's visibility and accessibility, particularly outside greater Belfast, and about the level of awareness on the part of the consumer regarding the current consumer representation roles and structures in Northern Ireland. The need for greater collaboration and partnership among advice and consumer representation bodies in Northern Ireland was also raised.

Strengthening the consumer representation body's independence was a recurring theme in the consultation, with some respondents asking that Northern Ireland's consumer representation body be given the same powers of access to information as those enjoyed by Consumer Focus in Great Britain, though without being specific about what advantages such changes could bring. Suggestions were also made regarding the departmental sponsorship of the body and the status of the body as a possible non-ministerial Department.

Taking into account the responses that were received to the public consultation and the issues that stakeholders raised during the review of the Consumer Council, I have decided that Northern Ireland's consumer representation role should continue to be delivered by a non-departmental public body and that the Consumer Council should continue to operate as that NDPB. However, that does not mean that there is no room for improvement. On the contrary; the review report and the subsequent consultation exercise identified areas for improvement where changes could be made to ensure that the consumer is better served when it comes to representation and advice. Therefore, in retaining the Consumer Council as Northern Ireland’s regional consumer representation body, my Department will take forward a number of improvement actions, which I will now outline.

The council's key priorities and objectives, structures and funding for 2014-15 and subsequent financial years must be focused on issues that are of regional significance to the Northern Ireland consumer, with a clearer focus on the outputs that are to be delivered.

Detailed annual work plans will be agreed with the council to support the funding provided by DETI and DRD. The size of the Consumer Council board will also be reduced to levels consistent with the size of the boards of many other NDPBs. A communication strategy for consumers will be developed to explain and raise awareness of existing consumer representation bodies in Northern Ireland and to provide clarity on their respective roles and responsibilities.

My Department will work with the Department for Social Development to ensure greater collaboration between the consumer and advice sectors, with the aim of improving effectiveness of representation and value for money. An operating protocol will be agreed with the council in consultation with DRD and DSD to reflect and underpin the new operating arrangements.

In conjunction with my Executive colleagues, I will give further consideration to the sponsorship arrangements of the council. However, I am not aware of any situation in which the council's representational role has been compromised as a consequence of the current DETI sponsorship role.

I have noted the desire expressed for the council to be given similar statutory powers for access to information as enjoyed by Consumer Focus in Great Britain. The council currently has such powers for energy, water, sewerage, postal and transport services. During the consultation, no specific evidence was presented to indicate that the council has been impeded in its role through inability to access information or by a lack of cooperation by organisations that it has investigated. In the absence of such evidence, there is currently no basis for pursuing the legislative powers being sought. Furthermore, the introduction of such a statutory power could be viewed as counter to the general approach to deregulation and the easing of red tape burden.

All arm's-length bodies are subject to periodic review to ensure that ministerial priorities and statutory commitments continue to be delivered in the most cost-effective manner. The review of the Consumer Council and the outcome of the consultation on the future delivery of consumer representation has been a continuation of that process of ensuring value for money in the use of public funds. The council will continue to be subject to periodic review over time, and we will continue to learn from the experiences and evaluation of the reformed consumer landscape in Great Britain and from developments elsewhere.

I recognise that the review and consultation has created uncertainty for the staff of the Consumer Council and for its board, and I commend their commitment in continuing to serve the needs of Northern Ireland consumers during this time. I commend the statement to the Assembly.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. I thank the Minister for her statement. In her concluding remarks, she referred to the uncertainty that the review has created among staff. We in the House should take this opportunity to place on record our compliments to those staff for their work.

That leads me on to my next point: resources. As we know, in times of recession and difficulties, issues such as poverty, fuel poverty and general consumer issues become much more of a priority and a focus for many families. Indeed, people are getting it very tight at the moment. Therefore, what guarantee will the Minister give about financial resources for the Consumer Council to carry out that work?

The statement refers to statutory powers and that there was:

"desire expressed for the council to be given similar statutory powers for access to information as enjoyed by Consumer Focus in Great Britain."

The Minister referred to the absence of such evidence. Could she please clarify what attempts were made by her Department or those acting on behalf of her Department, including Mr Simpson, who conducted the review, to look at the role of Consumer Focus and its responsibilities and duties and how those could be read across to the Consumer Council in the North?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Chair for his questions and comments. We say to the staff and the board of the Consumer Council that we very much appreciate that this has been an uncertain period for them.

We look forward to moving ahead with the appointment of a substantive chief executive. The post has been vacant since last August. Aodhan O'Donnell has been acting up and doing a very good job, but I am sure that we will now want to move to the point at which we have a substantive chief executive in place.

Resources for the Consumer Council rely on two parts of its functions. First, for its statutory functions, it has to have enough resources to comply with the needs there. As I stated, those are energy, water, sewerage, postal and transport services. So that will come as a matter of course. We will look at how best to get value for money in terms of the consumer advocacy role. In the past, we also funded other bodies to provide advice and assistance, and we will look at which is the best-placed body to deal with those issues moving forward.

I said that no evidence was put forward for more statutory powers. The reason is that it was one of those issues about which people said that we should have the same statutory powers as Great Britain but left it at that and did not look at what they actually wanted. That is why I do not believe that there is any evidence for widening the scope of statutory powers. Indeed, I argue that the Consumer Council really needs to focus now on the powers that it has.

One of the criticisms levelled when the review was taking place was that the Consumer Council tried to do too much instead of focusing on the issues that it really needed to be engaged in. I have already discussed that with the chair and deputy chair of the Consumer Council, and I am sure that we can work together to provide a very clear work plan so that consumers, who are the most important part of this story, know exactly whom to go to and where to go when they need advice and assistance. So, instead of widening the powers, I think that the Consumer Council needs to focus on the powers that it has at present and how it can best deal with those.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I am sure that Members will appreciate that Committee Chairs are given some latitude. There is now an opportunity for Members to ask the Minister a question on her statement.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I, too, thank the Minister for her statement. I trust that it will go some way to ending the uncertainty over the future of the Consumer Council. Does the Minister recognise the need for improvement in how the Consumer Council interfaces and communicates with other bodies, such as Citizens Advice and other financial/debt advice groups?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his question. That was one of the key elements of Mr Simpson's review. He found that the whole landscape had changed since the Consumer Council was set up in 1985 in that a number of bodies now undertake an advice and consumer representation role, be that Advice NI, the citizens advice bureaux, the Trading Standards Service or many other organisations.

DSD recently set up the Northern Ireland Advice Services Consortium, principally to ensure that there is engagement right across the field with the Department. I believe that the Consumer Council should be part of the consortium so that we get a holistic view of what is happening in this whole area. I hope that there will be more partnership working. I understand that, in some cases, bodies compete against each other for funding applications and what have you, but it is important that we have a very clear focus on what is to be delivered for the consumer. I hope that there is more partnership working in the future through the Northern Ireland Advice Services Consortium.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis agus as an deis a thug sí dom agus do chathaoirleach an choiste chun an ráiteas seo aici a phlé. The Minister states that the key priorities and objectives are to be agreed with DETI and reflect regional consumer issues. However, a priority for DETI might not be a priority for consumers, which will be determined in the forward work programme and will have been publicly consulted on. How will the Minister's Department address the tension between the two and respect the independence of the Consumer Council and its role to tackle consumer issues?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Consumer Council has, of course, operational independence and that is something that will continue into the future. As I said, a number of options were put before me in relation to consumer representation. I believe that NDPB status is the best way forward because NDPBs retain their operational independence, but, at the same time, are accountable to Ministers for what they do. I think that that is important, because, at the end of the day, the Consumer Council is funded through public funds, and, if there is no ministerial accountability, where is the accountability for the use of public funds? Of course, the Consumer Council will want to bring forward its work programme. It will discuss what it wants to do in future with DETI and DRD, and that will be agreed. That is a good, collaborative way of moving forward. If issues arise during the year that need attention, the Consumer Council will address them, as it has, quite effectively, in the past. So, I do not think that there is any tension between its operational independence and the fact that it is accountable to DETI and to me as Minister.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for her statement and welcome the continuation of the General Consumer Council as a non-departmental public body with a somewhat reduced size but with improvements to ensure that consumers are better represented and better served. The issue relating to the perceived independence of the Consumer Council will continue, especially considering the scrutiny that the body carries out on energy affairs, which are under the responsibility of the sponsoring Department. In her statement, the Minister refers to giving further consideration to the sponsorship arrangements for the council. What will the nature of those further considerations be?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for her question. The only reduction in respect of the Consumer Council will be in the size of the board. At present, it can have a board of up to 16. That is not where it sits at the moment; I think that it sits with 10, with the chair and the deputy chair. I do not believe that a board of 16 is required, especially when you look at other NDPBs, particularly those in my Department. The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has a chair, a deputy chair and eight members, and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board (NITB) has a chair and six members, but, in July, that will rise to eight members. We are talking about a reduction to around that size.

Some consultation responses indicated that, perhaps, another Department would be better placed to be the sponsor Department. We shall certainly be looking at those alternatives — the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, for example, or the Department of Finance and Personnel. Those are things that we will consider.

One of the reasons why we decided to keep the NDPB and not move to an abolition was that so many changes have occurred in Great Britain recently, and we want to see how they bed in. We particularly want to see how the consumer representation role moves ahead with the work of the citizens advice bureaux in Great Britain. Of course, any NDPB is subject to review, and the Consumer Council will be subject to review again in future.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I welcome the statement and the confirmation of the continuation of the Consumer Council, even in its slimmed-down role. The statement indicates, and the Minister has already indicated, that, frankly, we have more than enough advice services in Northern Ireland. Are we moving towards a situation in which the Consumer Council will maintain its role under its statutory responsibilities, but, perhaps, have it extended at some stage, and where Citizens Advice will do the casework?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Those were some of the issues that we had to grapple with during the consultation. For my part, I hope that the Consumer Council can complement the work that is carried out in other bodies like the citizens advice bureaux, Advice NI and Trading Standards. That is why I am keen for them to work in partnership with those bodies so that they are not doing the same things, because that would not be a good use of public money. I think that the Member will accept that.

There is not a slimmed-down role here; there is a more focused role. There is no reduction in staff numbers. The only reduction that I think should be made is in the number of board members. I think that most people will welcome the fact that we need to be more focused and, indeed, that we need to communicate better with those all-important consumers on where they access the appropriate level of consumer representation.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement today on this important issue. Of course, all arm's-length bodies are subject to periodic review. Does she have anything in mind regarding the periods between reviews? How will she monitor the performance of the Consumer Council in between times?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

He is right to say that all NDPBs, at least those under my Ministry, have to be reviewed. We had the review of Invest Northern Ireland. We are currently finishing off the review of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. The Health and Safety Executive chief executive has asked me when he is going to be reviewed. It is important, when we are dealing with public funds, that we carry out these reviews periodically.

The last time the Consumer Council was reviewed was 1999. We have been a little tardy in looking at the Consumer Council. I think that fifteen years is too long a period of time; perhaps every five to seven years would be a good time, and then it would not be such a big deal. I recall that some in the House indicated that I had a predetermined view about what was going to happen to the Consumer Council. The conspiracy theorists were having a great time with what was going to happen, so much so that one of our papers had a campaign to save the Consumer Council. In fact, what we were doing was to make sure that the correct use of public money was taking place. That is what we endeavour to do. If we move forward in a focused way, we will ensure that that is the case.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for the statement today. Quite clearly, there is a discrete regional socio-economic profile, and the Minister reflected that in her response. The issue for any body that enjoys funding from the public purse is accountability and efficiency. The normal value-for-money requirement is well stated.

I note the Minister's comment about red tape. In considering the matter of more Departments becoming involved in sponsorship, there is the possibility that that will not contribute to efficient line management. In fact, it could be quite the opposite. I hope that the Minister will give careful consideration to that. The —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Can we have a question, please?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Yes. Thank you. The key question for me is: if we have the situation of ongoing review, is it possible that the Assembly could be advised of the different remits of the Consumer Council as is and Consumer Focus in Britain, to see what the issues that the Minister was not able to respond to on this occasion might be? If that information is not available, I am quite content for the Minister to reply in writing.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his questions. I do not envisage there being two sponsor Departments. I envisage, perhaps after discussion — I am not suggesting that this is the case, and I am certainly not predetermining the discussion. Is DETI the right sponsor Department? Should we move it to DFP or OFMDFM? I am not suggesting more than one sponsor Department, because that I do not think that that would work. It would add more bureaucracy. I am more than happy to be the sponsor Department and to move forward on that basis.

The roles of Consumer Focus have been transferred to the National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux in Great Britain. That was taken into account by Paul Simpson in his work. It probably largely influenced the review work that he carried out. We want to wait to see how that beds in in Great Britain to see whether there are any advantages in that mechanism. I certainly believe that, here in Northern Ireland, we should move ahead with a partnership approach to make sure that the consumer has the correct level of representation. Some good work has been carried out by the Consumer Council in the past. We want to build on that good work and have more of a focus on outcomes in the future. That is where I hope we will be.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her statement, which expresses concerns about the visibility and accountability of the Consumer Council outside the greater Belfast area. Minister, how do you intend to address that issue in order to ensure that there is equality across the Province and that every citizen has an opportunity to make use of the Consumer Council?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That point was raised during the consultation and, as a rural MLA, I take it very seriously. I think it is a perception more than a reality. As someone who uses the Consumer Council on a constituency basis, I know that it travels west when asked to do so. However, it raises a very interesting point about perceptions and communication, which I hope the board and the Consumer Council team will tackle. It is not a Belfast organisation, it is an organisation for the whole of Northern Ireland, and, if there are difficulties and problems that need to be attended to across Northern Ireland, then it should be available in those areas just as it is here in Belfast.

Fearghal McKinney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for her statement. There is a theme emerging around the issue of review. While the Minister acknowledged that the report into the Consumer Council has, in itself, injected a considerable degree of uncertainty around its future, can she assure the House that the review process that has been talked about does not provoke some uncertainty given the scope within which she has already reflected, and that there is a need for a very strong and robust Consumer Council, not for its own sake but for that of the consumer?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am happy to agree with the Member's last point. The Consumer Council is there for a reason; the consumer. Therefore, that should be where the focus is and not on institutional bodies. That was always at the front of my mind when we were looking at this review and is why I came up with the determination that I have.

Going forward, I want to bring stability and certainty to the staff and board of the Consumer Council, which is why I am making this statement today. Its existence will continue, but now we need to move forward and work together to be more focused and work with the other institutions that I mentioned so that we can have a more joined-up and complementary approach to providing advice and assistance to the consumer.

Sammy Douglas (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for her statement, which I welcome. The report says that the review showed that the Consumer Council was responsive to consumers and was certainly effective as an organisation. I concur with that. The Minister mentioned the chief executive officer vacancy, and I know that the chair and vice-chair positions are coming up later in the year. What are her views on that?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I hope to move, along with colleagues on the board and particularly the chief executive, Rick Hill, to start the process to appoint the new chief executive as quickly as possible. I bear in mind that Rick's term comes to an end in December and I have spoken to him about that issue. He has helpfully said that he will help with the transition, so, if there are difficulties, he will remain in post until the new chair is appointed.

I want to have the substantive chief executive appointed as quickly as possible so that we can then move to deal with the other issues around the board.

Executive Committee Business

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I beg to move

That the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order (Northern Ireland) 2014 be approved.

The uprating order is an annual order which sets out the rates of contributory and non-contributory benefits together with the various allowances and premiums that make up the income-related benefits.

Generally, the new amounts from April each year are based on the increase in the general level of prices over the 12 months ending the previous September measured using the consumer prices index (CPI), which is the measure of price inflation considered most appropriate for the purpose by the UK Government at Westminster.

I am aware that there has been some debate in the past about whether CPI or the retail prices index (RPI) should be used as the measure, and some people argue that using CPI will cost less. Clearly, there is no perfect measure of inflation, but uprating by CPI ensures that, at the very least, benefit levels maintain their value against inflation. In addition, some commentators consider that it better reflects the inflation experience of pensioners and benefit recipients.

This year, however, because of the national economic situation, the Westminster Government decided to limit the uprating of certain working-age benefits to 1%. The Welfare Benefits Up-rating Act 2013 provides for an increase of 1% in the majority of working-age benefits and statutory payments in Great Britain for the 2014-15 and 2015-16 years. I stress that my Department has no power to increase benefits by a different or greater percentage to that provided for in orders made by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

Basic state pension is increased by 2·7% to £113·10, which is an increase of £2·95 a week, and the minimum guarantee in state pension credit by the same amount, taking a single person's weekly income to £148·35, and for couples the increase will be £4·45, taking their new total to £226·50 a week.

Those facing additional costs because of their disability and who have less opportunity to increase their income through paid employment have seen their benefits rise by the increase in CPI. Therefore, disability living allowance, attendance allowance, carer's allowance and the main rate of incapacity benefit have all risen by 2·7%, as did the employment and support allowance support group component and those disability-related premiums that are paid with pension credit and working-age benefits. Other benefits have been increased by 1%.

As a result of the uprating order, we will be spending an additional £108 million on social security in 2013-14, and that is money that will go into the local economy.

I fully appreciate that many of us wish that we could do more, but, as I have already stated, my Department is only empowered to set the same rates of benefits as those payable in Great Britain.

I am sure that all Members will wish to ensure that people in Northern Ireland, including some of the most vulnerable in our society, can continue to receive these new increased rates of benefit and will, therefore, join me in supporting the order.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for tabling the motion.

The Committee for Social Development first considered the Department's proposal to make this annual uprating order at its meeting on 13 February 2014. When this was originally proposed, the Committee agreed that it was content for the Department to make the regulations, but with the very clear caveat that it had a number of concerns, particularly about the scale or level of the increase.

Those concerns related to the fact, which the Minister has addressed, that uprating the benefits either in line with CPI or at the 1% rate effectively represented a real-terms cut. As many Members will be aware, when NICVA carried out its report on welfare reform and the costs associated with it, it factored in the 1% increase over a number of years, which brought another figure, an additional £300 million, out of the local economy. Members made that clear at the Committee meeting.

When the statutory rule was subsequently brought before the Committee on 20 March, the Committee was content to recommend that it be confirmed by the Assembly, although the same views were expressed that the uprating, as it was called, would in fact represent a real-terms cut in benefits.

The implementation of the uprating proposals is expected to increase the Department’s annually managed expenditure by approximately £108 million. The uprating order also includes provision to increase the weekly rate of ordinary and additional statutory paternity pay and statutory adoption pay, and those are responsibilities that lie with the Department for Employment and Learning. DSD has informed the Committee that it has consulted the Department for Employment and Learning and that DEL is content with these proposals.

I place on the record the concerns expressed by the majority, if not all, of the Committee members when the matters were discussed in Committee. With those concerns noted, the Committee recommends that the rule be confirmed by the Assembly. It is also important to point out that, if the regulations are not agreed to and the motion is not passed, the Department will have no legal authority to make the increase, even though it is by a small amount.

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I will make a few brief comments on the uprating order. It is an annual exercise, with little changing from year to year, so, to a degree, the issues that faced us last year still apply.

We appreciate that it is the Welfare Benefits Up-rating Act 2013 that provides for the 1% increase in the majority of working-age benefits and that that is still to apply for another two years. However, as I have said in the past, the Minister will no doubt be aware that the majority of children living in poverty in Northern Ireland now live in low-paid working households. The order will not support them. In our view, it will do the opposite. I hope that the Minister is keeping a watching brief on the impacts of the cap. I wonder whether he can inform us of what discussions he has held with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) on its intentions post-2015-16.

On some of the other benefits affected, I welcome the 2·7% increase in the basic state pension, disability living allowance, attendance allowance and the main rate of incapacity benefit. However, I stress that we must ensure that an inequality does not begin to build between those people in receipt of differing means of support. I am fully supportive of the pension, for example, being increased in line with the rate of CPI —

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member give way on that point?

Michael Copeland (UUP, Belfast East)

— but we need to remember that tax credits, maternity allowance and maternity pay are still very important benefits to the people who are in receipt of them. Therefore, the sooner that they can revert, the better for us.

On a slightly separate note, I wish to make a comment on the timing of the order. It is my understanding that the Minister sought Executive approval for his paper in February, and, as we have heard, the increase came into operation in April. However, it is only now being brought to the Assembly for approval. I realise that the order is subject to the confirmatory procedure, which means that it is first made and then must only come to the Assembly within six months. That makes me wonder what the point of today's debate really is and whether we are merely ticking boxes.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. The Chair has summed up the Committee's views on the legislation. I agree with Mr Copeland that the uprating happens in April every year, yet it is a number of months after that the Minister is bringing it to the Assembly. The Committee certainly had reservations about the 1% freeze in benefits for the next three years, which, again, is part of the Tory policy of cutting benefits. As the Chair said, it has been recorded that Committee members had a lot of reservations about the legislation, but the difficulty is that, if it does not get through, benefits may well be affected.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I call Fra McCann.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

It has already been said. I have nothing further to add.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I support the order that the Minister is bringing in. On some of the points that have been made, yes, the Committee did look at the issue. We all understand that the degree of increase is set centrally by government. We all understand the difficulties that many people on low incomes and benefits are having to face, but there are two considerations that we have to make.

The first, which has been reiterated by all the Sinn Féin Members who have spoken, is that this comes from Westminster, and, if we do not implement it, there will be consequences. The odd thing is that, although it is taken on this issue, that stance has not been taken on other issues of welfare reform that will have consequences for the public purse. I am sure that the Finance Minister will raise that later on.

The second issue, which I just want to mention, because he would not take the intervention, is one that Mr Copeland raised. We accept the point that he made about the difficulties with small increases, especially as the cost of living has increased by more than the uprate in benefits, and we recognise the difficulty that that causes for people on benefits. Nevertheless, the same problem is being faced by people in employment, including those who are in low-paid employment. I doubt very much whether there is anyone in the Assembly who would make the argument that we should increase benefits at a greater rate than wages are increasing, making it even less attractive for people to go into work. We are not talking about the wages of people who are very well paid; we are also talking about wages of people who are on low pay.

There are two reasons to support it, which I and other Members outlined. First of all, it is something that comes from Westminster that, if we ignore, will create greater difficulties for people. That is an important lesson, if only Sinn Féin applied it right across the spectrum of the debate on welfare and welfare reform. The point that I think is important for all of us is that we make sure that any actions that are taken in this Assembly do not make work less attractive for people who are in employment and who may face a situation where they are caught in a trap if benefits outstrip the increase in wages. For those two reasons, I support the order.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

I am glad that there is a consensus of support across the Assembly for the uprating order, while acknowledging that various Members raised concerns and talked about a desire to be able do more. However, as I said in my introductory remarks, the fact of the matter is that legislation does not enable my Department to diverge from Great Britain at all on the matter.

I thank the Chairman and his colleagues on the Social Development Committee for the way in which they have dealt with the matter. The fact of the matter is that all that I can do is commend the order to the Assembly. I am certain that Members will at least welcome the increase in the rates of benefits provided for by the uprating order. I should also say in the light of the earlier discussion that I think that Members should reflect on some of the important points that Mr Wilson made about the background to the order. I am certain that we will all welcome the proposed increase, and I commend the motion to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved (with cross-community support):

That the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order (Northern Ireland) 2014 be approved.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to four hours for the debate. The Minister will have up to 60 minutes to allocate, as he wishes, between proposing and making a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have 10 minutes. I remind Members that the vote on this motion requires cross-community support.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I beg to move

That this Assembly approves that a sum, not exceeding £8,411,921,000, be granted out of the Consolidated Fund, for or towards defraying the charges for Northern Ireland Departments, the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission, the Assembly Ombudsman for Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Complaints, the Food Standards Agency, the Northern Ireland Audit Office, the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation and the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland for the year ending 31 March 2015 and that resources, not exceeding £9,168,609,000, be authorised for use by Northern Ireland Departments, the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission, the Assembly Ombudsman for Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Complaints, the Food Standards Agency, the Northern Ireland Audit Office, the Northern Ireland Authority for Utility Regulation and the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland for the year ending 31 March 2015 as summarised for each Department or other public body in columns 3(b) and 3(a) of table 1·3 in the volume of the Northern Ireland Estimates 2014-15 that was laid before the Assembly on 28 May 2014.

As has been set out, this debate covers the Supply resolution. The resolution seeks the Assembly's approval of the 2014-15 spending plans of Departments and other public bodies as set out in the Main Estimates.

The Main Estimates were laid in the Assembly on Wednesday 28 May 2014.

The resolution relates to the supply of cash and resources for the remainder of 2014-15, as set out in the Main Estimates. A Vote on Account was passed by the Assembly in March, which provided initial allocations for 2014-15 to ensure the continuation of services until the Main Estimates could be presented to the Assembly for approval. The resolution and the Budget Bill that I will introduce later today request the balance to complete the total 2014-15 cash and resource requirements for Departments and other public bodies. The balance amounts to over £8·4 billion of cash and over £9·1 billion of resources.

The requirements have their origins in the final year of the Executive’s 2011-15 Budget, which was approved by the previous Assembly on 9 March 2011. It also reflects the demand-led annually managed expenditure (AME). On behalf of the Executive, I request and recommend the levels of Supply that are set out in the resolution under section 63 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.

As is the norm, accelerated passage is required for the legislation, and, indeed, there is a provision for its use in this specific instance in the Assembly’s Standing Orders. I understand that the Committee for Finance and Personnel has agreed to grant accelerated passage. I place on record my appreciation of the Committee’s vital role in agreeing that important step in the financial process.

I am sure that Members are aware that the debate on the resolution is time-limited. I encourage Members to use their limited time to focus on the issues that specifically relate to the 2014-15 Supply resolution.

Like previous years, the 2014-15 financial year will present significant challenges for the Assembly in the provision of public services. When the 2010 UK spending review outcome for 2014-15 was set, it provided real terms resource departmental expenditure limit (DEL) and capital DEL respectively that were 8% and 40% lower than the 2010-11 baseline.

Since the 2011-15 Budget was agreed in March 2011, a number of issues have changed the 2014-15 financial landscape. Probably the most important in determining the scale of the Northern Ireland block has been the allocations as a result of subsequent UK autumn statements and Budgets. Those additional allocations also reflected a change in emphasis from resource to capital spending by the UK Government. That means that we are now better off by some £185 million of resource and £247 million of capital compared with the original 2011-15 Budget position.

The increase in resource DEL mainly reflects the reclassification of some elements of our Budget and does not represent any significant increase in spending power. However, the majority of the extra capital represents additional spending power, although some £63 million is in the form of financial transactions capital, which must be used as a loan or equity share to the private sector.

Since 2011, a number of financial exercises have taken place that also impacted on the position. They include a re-profiling of our capital budget, adjustments that resulted from the delay in the A5 road scheme and the Executive’s economy and jobs initiative. The outcome of those exercises is reflected in the Estimates and ensure that the necessary resources are in place as early as possible to allow good planning and delivery of essential public services.

The Estimates are seen by many as complex and difficult to understand, and I agree with that assessment. However, it is imperative that we as an Assembly recognise that the Budget Bill underpinned by the Estimates is the key legislation for delivering funding to vital public services such as schools and hospitals. The public services underpinned by the legislation in turn support the wider Northern Ireland economy, and it is vital that we debate the legislation and pass it expeditiously.

We as an Assembly have an obligation to support our economy and encourage growth in our private sector. We must utilise the resources in the Bill in the most effective way possible to ensure that we can provide a sound footing for our businesses, our society and our people.

There are signs that the hard work of the Executive is beginning to take effect. Over the last few years, we have seen stabilisation and, more recently, the beginnings of growth across the economy. According to the May economic update that was published by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, the Northern Ireland labour market continues to improve. The number of people claiming benefits has also fallen for the fifteenth month in a row by 8,800 over the period.

The speed of improvement, however, has been slow compared with the UK average. The number of claimants in Northern Ireland fell 16% over the past 15 months compared with a UK average fall of 38%. The unemployment rate between January and March 2014 was 7·2%. That is down 0·9 percentage points over the year and is above the UK rate of 6·8% but well below the European Union average of 10·6% and the Republic of Ireland's rate of 11·9% in February. The local economic inactivity rate is now 26·8%, which is a fall of 0·6% over the past year, but this remains significantly above the UK rate of 21·9%.

Results from the latest Ulster Bank Purchasing Managers’ Index survey suggest that local private sector business activity expanded for an eleventh consecutive month in May. April's figure was the sharpest monthly pace of expansion since the survey started in August 2002. The pace recorded was higher than the UK average and behind only London of the 12 UK regions. The local construction industry is also beginning to show signs of improvement, with a rise in workloads reported. There is clearly good progress being made, but there is much still to do.

Over the coming months, there will be a number of critical public expenditure issues to be dealt with, locally and with Her Majesty's Treasury, that will ultimately affect the public purse and the amount of funding that we can utilise in our public services. As we know, the public expenditure environment will continue to be constrained, and we will no doubt make decisions this year that will affect budgets going forward. That is why it is imperative that we work to get budgets right during 2014-15, which would allow us to make the key decisions that are necessary to keep our public finances on a sound footing. I believe that the Estimates before us today are the start of that process.

I look forward to the debate and to debating the expenditure plans contained in the Budget Bill and the Main Estimates. I request the support of Members for the resolution to approve further supply for the 2014-15 financial year to enable vital public services to continue beyond the current provision in the Vote on Account.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. On 28 May, DFP officials briefed the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the Main Estimates and the associated Budget (No. 2) Bill, which gives legislative approval to the Estimates and is to be introduced in the Assembly following this debate. DFP officials also provided a paper to the Committee that, amongst other things, reconciled the figures in the Main Estimates for 2014-15, with the original allocations for 2014-15 in the four-year Budget 2011-15.

The Committee’s scrutiny of the Main Estimates focused on establishing the background to and reasons for the changes in the allocations for each Department. The amounts involved were significant, including a total of £157·2 million in resource allocations and almost £237·9 million in capital allocations; and a total of £48·8 million in resource reductions and £267·6 million in capital reductions. There was a total of £30·3 million in resource transfers and £45·6 million in capital transfers with Whitehall Departments plus a range of resource and capital technical adjustments.

In addition to explaining the make-up of these changes during oral evidence, DFP officials provided the summary figures for each Department in writing to the Committee in advance. The largest of the resource allocations applied to the Department for Employment and Learning and the Department of Education. The former received £55·8 million, which includes £21 million for the top-up of student fees and £20 million for NEETs and youth unemployment allocation. For DE, there was an increase in its budget of £75 million, which was agreed by the Executive in 2011.

In considering DFP’s position, the Committee noted a capital reduction of £10·1 million and questioned officials on the background to this. In responding, the departmental officials advised that the capital budget for the four-year period was originally quite heavily end-loaded with projects in the 2014-15 year. With additional capital funding available in 2013-14, the Department was asked to identify whether it could bring forward the planned projects for completion, which it was able to do, thereby resulting in the reallocation to the preceding financial year.

Given that there does not appear to be any provision in the DFP Estimate for equal pay, the Committee also queried how any settlement of the PSNI/NIO and Civil Service retiree issues would be funded in 2014-15, if agreed. In responding, officials advised:

"The PSNI/NIO element will be a matter for the Department of Justice."

They said that, in terms of the latter, because of the way that the accounting in the Estimates works, provision was made in the 2013-14 financial year.

Reference was also made to provision not appearing in the Estimates because Assembly permission to spend it was sought when it was in AME. As that explanation seems quite technical in budgetary terms, perhaps, when concluding today’s debate, the Minister can provide us with further clarification on how any settlement of both the PSNI/NIO and Civil Service retiree grievances will be accounted for, including any practical impact on the Executive’s DEL resources.

As for the other Departments, the most notable of the amounts in capital allocations was the £92·2 million for DRD, which included £30 million for the A8 Belfast to Larne project. The Department of Health received a significant number of allocations, which totalled £32·9 million, including £15·5 million for the children’s hospital, £5 million for the addressing serious risks programme, and £3·5 million for the endoscopy decontamination unit at Belfast City Hospital.

DFP officials also explained the significant reductions, reclassifications and transfers across Departments’ budgets for the year. On the latter, for example, they explained that the £129·5 million transfer for DSD relates to movement of housing benefit and social fund from the annually managed expenditure to DEL budgets, which does not represent additional amounts.

On behalf of the Committee, I wish to thank DFP officials for taking members through the reconciliation of the Main Estimates with the original Budget for 2014-15. The Department previously recognised the benefit of having the complete prior-year out-turn information available in advance of the Assembly considering the Supply resolution. In terms of further improvement to the process, if each Department were in a position to brief its Committee early on prior-year outturn, it would enable scrutiny of the incoming budget to be informed by consideration of the prior-year financial performance of each Department.

Following the DFP briefing on 28 May, the Committee agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 42(2), to grant accelerated passage to the Budget (No. 2) Bill 2014, on the basis that it was satisfied that there has been appropriate consultation with it on the expenditure proposals in the Bill, and I have advised the Speaker accordingly.

Speaking from a personal and party point of view, for us in Sinn Féin, the Budget was framed to focus on delivering economic growth and, especially in my constituency, increasing tourist numbers, and also improving our international reputation. Unfortunately, the party opposite has undermined a lot of the good work done since devolution to position the North as a place to do business. We do not want to be portrayed, as we have been in recent weeks, as some sort of backwater economically and otherwise.

Of course, the First Minister's comments about ethnic minorities have an economic impact. They have had an international impact, they have been broadcast all across the world, and you would need to be very naive to think that that would not have an impact on investment. Coupled with that are the comments that we are, unfortunately, used to hearing now with regard to the lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered (LGBT) community, and we also find out now from a survey carried out amongst the Democratic Unionist Party that the majority of its members would oppose relatives marrying a Catholic.

All those things coupled together do not paint a good picture of this place and do not paint a good picture of the North; it is making investors think twice about coming to Belfast, coming to Derry and about coming up the road from Dublin. I remember listening to one radio interview in recent weeks and hearing that a potential investor who was coming from Dublin to the North told the person who was bringing him up the road to stop the car once he heard some of the comments that were being made about the Muslim community.

We need to learn from all of that, because, time and time again, some of the ignorant politics that are out there and which we hear within these four falls and outwith in the community are impacting not only on our community in the North but impacting on our economic potential and our potential for economic growth and investment.

The main aims of the Programme for Government were to grow the economy and tackle disadvantage. Many members of the party opposite see themselves as Tories; about 50% of them, according to their own internal surveys. Many of the party's MPs like to share tea and crumpets with the British Prime Minister.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

You are jealous. Sure you are trying to get an invitation.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I will take an intervention, if you want.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Of course, I am sure that Mr Cameron had some interesting things to say about the welfare cuts agenda that his Government want to implement. I am sure that Mr Cameron was telling the DUP MPs, "Keep doing what you are doing, because this is what we want to see: our ideological agenda pushed in London and in Belfast". It is clear that the DUP is wedded to that agenda.

In the British Government's pushing of the welfare cuts agenda, I am interested to hear how the Department of Finance has assessed the costs, and not only in some of the scare-mongering it has been doing in recent weeks. We know that, once this agenda is implemented, a lot of people will be pushed below the poverty line and the breadline. That has other impacts as well, including on health. What impacts will this have in increasing pressure on our health service? How are we going to meet that cost? In terms of employment, with less money circulating in the economy —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member bring his remarks to a close?

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

That is going to have an impact on costs to business, in particular small and medium-sized enterprises. These are questions that have been left unanswered, and the Minister needs to discuss them today.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I do not know what planet the previous Member to speak was on. However, when you consider that Sinn Féin Members are talking about the Budget, they maybe know more about aerospace, anyway, than about the Budget or the economy.

I am speaking as Chairperson of the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development. I will cover today the work the Committee has done on scrutiny of the DARD budget for 2014-15, capital and resource. I will mention some of the budgetary and financial issues and constraints that have been debated in the Committee.

The Agriculture Committee takes briefings on budgetary and financial matters on a regular basis as part of its ongoing remit to scrutinise the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development. We had our last formal briefing on the Main Estimates, the June monitoring round, 2013-14 out-turn and the savings delivery plans on Tuesday 3 June. That was in preparation for this debate and others that will come to the Assembly over the next few weeks.

During the briefing on the Estimates, the Committee paid particular attention to an amendment or late addition to the budget for £100,000 to allow for initial financial assistance in connection with the Reservoirs Bill. A further £100,000 will be required the following year. This is to enable reservoir managers to meet their initial obligations under the Bill. It is expected that reservoir managers will use this assistance to commission an inspection of their reservoir, if they have not already done so. This will allow DARD to identify those reservoirs that are in need of work, to establish the associated costs of those works and to determine the need and type of a future grant scheme.

Whilst, in the larger scheme of things, this may be small change, it is a major issue for the Committee, in that it addresses some of the key concerns that we have with the Reservoirs Bill at present and the heavy-handed approach in the Bill, which is not, in the Committee's opinion, based on firm evidence.

The Committee is aware that the Department is not normally one of the big spenders when it comes to capital projects. Nevertheless, it is aware that, this year, there are some major capital projects, namely the headquarters relocation, the Going for Growth strategy, flood alleviation measures and modernisation of the specialist estate. When we scrutinised the business plan for 2014-15, we noted that the capital resource was estimated at around £52 million. The capital projects that I have just mentioned are major issues for the Committee from a policy and an expenditure viewpoint, and, as a Committee, we will be following both aspects with great care and attention over the following year.

Another major issue for the Committee that is expected to be resource-heavy in the coming and following years is a new IT system called the Northern Ireland food animal information system (NIFAIS). This is to replace the current animal and public health information system (APHIS). The Committee has been concerned about this because APHIS and its replacement are essential to the agrifood industry, enabling traceability, and thus trade, within Northern Ireland and internationally. The agrifood industry is vital to the economy of Northern Ireland, so we will be scrutinising this issue with great care and attention from a policy and an expenditure viewpoint. As there are issues of commercial sensitivity around this project, the Committee has arranged a closed session oral briefing on it for late June.

Another major concern of the Committee is CAP and the pillar1 and pillar 2 aspects. Getting the CAP budget sorted and finalising how it will be spent is probably the most important issue for the Committee at the minute.

I will turn to the budget for pillar 2, or the new rural development programme (RDP) 2014–2020, first. I went back to see what I said about the programme when we debated the Vote on Account in February. Unfortunately, nothing has changed. I could repeat what I said about the Committee's concerns about the budget uncertainty for the RDP and CAP overall and it would still be valid nearly four months later. That is a major issue for the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to address and she must bring her proposals to the Executive as soon as possible.

There is a major budget issue that needs to be resolved. The importance of our rural development programme for the rural and farming industries cannot be underestimated. It enables valuable and essential projects, ranging from agrienvironment schemes and farm modernisation to tackling rural isolation and social and economic poverty. The lack of certainty is unsettling but the Committee is to be updated on the rural development programme at its last meeting before summer recess. Let us all hope that we get some details on the programme and the budget at that meeting.

Probably more important is pillar 1 of CAP or the new basic payment scheme to replace the single farm payment. Worth over €300 million a year to Northern Ireland, this EU grant is undergoing changes in the way it is being paid and distributed. I am sure that most Members are aware of the complexities and decision-making difficulties around this issue. Many decisions have been made and have been met with general approval by the industry, but there are two big outstanding issues: the single region versus a two-subregional model for Northern Ireland and the speed of moving to a flat-rate payment system. Both are controversial and both have their supporters and those who oppose them. At this stage, most, but not all, parties have indicated which side of the fence they are on.

The most important thing the industry needs is clarity and a decision to enable farmers to plan and make key business decisions on how to manage and develop their businesses. It is imperative that the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development brings her proposals to the Executive as soon as possible. In fact, it is probably too late for those farmers who need to plan ahead. I do not and cannot understand the delay. This could have been sorted out months ago, and she has been dragging her feet.

Linked but not dependent on CAP funding is the Agri-Food Strategy Board document 'Going for Growth'. This was published in May 2013, with a stated request for £400 million from central government. As the Chamber will be aware, agrifood and this strategy are a key target in the Programme for Government, falling jointly to DARD and DETI.

The agrifood industry is important to Northern Ireland. It has substantial potential to create jobs and wealth that can be spread across Northern Ireland and, with the right financial incentives, that growth could happen soon. The industry tells us that the opportunities are ready to be acted on. Many of the proposals in 'Going for Growth' sit well with the proposals of the rural development programme. There is near-perfect alignment regarding the farm business investment scheme, which is estimated to be worth £250 million.

At our recent briefing on June monitoring, we heard that DARD has made a bid for £1·4 million for a pilot scheme for a farm business improvement scheme. The pilot scheme is to ensure that the £250 million capital investment will do what it is meant to do and that farmers have the tools and know-how to make best use of it. We await the outcomes of that pilot scheme and the worth of it. We also heard that the Department is giving serious consideration to how the farm improvement scheme is to be delivered, whether by using in-house resources or outsourcing, and how the funding will be found.

Another major financial issue concerning the Committee is the budget for the test and vaccinate or remove (TVR) exercise to combat bovine TB. DARD has been preparing, for some time, to undertake pilots on the TVR scheme for badgers. In fact, there was considerable media coverage of the long-awaited launch of the TVR exercise last week. We are aware that the scheme could be costly and have been asking, for some time, for indicative costs and timetables. We now know that it will cost approximately £7·5 million over the next five years, at roughly £1 million to £1·5 million a year. The cost for that is to be met out of the existing budget dedicated to animal health, which in turn is part of the Veterinary Service budget. So there is no new money here. As a Committee, we have asked for further information on that. If it is just reusing existing moneys, what are the consequences? There are projects that are not going to be funded. Have staff been relocated to do it and, if so, from what?

The Committee was previously briefed on the capital funding that DARD will need to deliver flood alleviation measures over the next four financial years, to 2017-18. We heard recently that, in 2014-15, that will require £2·8 million approximately. This is timely, in that we had considerable media coverage last week of the launch by DARD and the Rivers Agency of flood maps. Those maps will inform the work of producing flood-risk management plans for areas of significant risk.

I will just mention, Mr Deputy Speaker, that, last night, I was out until 11.00 pm and did not sleep until 3.00 am because I was assisting families and households that were flooded in my constituency of North Antrim, in particular in Ballymena south. Families were on tenterhooks as flood waters entered their homes. It is an absolute disgrace that, after the massive flood in 2008, there is still the same issue with the drainage scheme.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member bring his remarks to a close?

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

So the work being done on flood levels and planning for that is very, very important.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle, as an deis cainte ar an rún tábhachtach seo atá faoi bhráid an Tionóil inniu. Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to participate in the debate today. It feels like only yesterday that I last spoke in the Assembly on a Budget Bill debate, but it was, of course, four months ago. Since February, we have, I suppose, rehearsed many of the arguments. You might say that nothing has changed or you might say that everything has changed.

Last Wednesday, we heard in the Queen's speech about a whole raft of legislation proposed by the coalition Government for the year ahead; I think that there were 11 pieces, in all. Of those, a number will, I am sure, have direct relevance to the people of Northern Ireland. Indeed, it will be interesting to hear from the Minister how he assesses the effects that some of that legislation may have. For example, what is his assessment of the coalition's plans to allow workers to contribute to Dutch-style collective pensions? How will the proposed Pensions Tax Bill and National Insurance Contributions Bill impact upon the economic spending power of the Northern Ireland public? How will the planned Childcare Payments Bill impact on Bright Start? The suggestion of a childcare subsidy worth up to £2,000 a year sounds promising, but I wonder whether we will, in fact, see the benefit here through the receipt of the appropriate Barnett consequentials. The coalition Government have realised that capital investment will underpin economic growth. They have proposed an Infrastructure Bill. Does the Minister think that we have prioritised capital infrastructure development here to a sufficient extent to underpin our economic growth?

I should note, however, that, in that raft of legislation, the SDLP fundamentally disagrees with the coalition Government's plan to give energy companies the right to run shale gas pipelines under private land. We will oppose that legislation in Westminster. I hope that the Minister and his party see sense and change their mind on progressing fracking plans for Northern Ireland.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. Maybe he will explain why the SDLP is opposed to exploiting a natural resource that we know is available in Northern Ireland and that could create thousands of new jobs, give us a secure source of energy in our own country and potentially bring down the cost of energy to householders.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I ask Members to come back to the debate.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for his intervention, but he is well aware of the potential dangers of fracking. In that context, we have to consider not only the price but the cost. The cost may well vastly outweigh any profits that we may gain in the short term.

I was saying that the SDLP has been highlighting the need to address the issue of employers exploiting zero-hour contracts and the importance of developing a living-wage society. A little progress has been made on that by the SDLP on Belfast City Council, but even the Tories have chosen to propose a Bill with tougher penalties for firms that flout minimum-wage rules and abuse zero-hour contracts. That is something that we might consider here as well.

I have said in the past that we should review the four-year budgetary period. A yearly Budget might add more interest to the budgetary process here, and that would enable us to respond in a more flexible way to the difficulties that we face, especially during these particularly harsh economic times. In conjunction with an annual Budget, we must emulate the Scottish Government, who highlighted the additional set of levers that they could obtain to provide more control and help shape a bespoke economic future, by establishing a Calman-type commission, such as that which was established in Scotland. Such devolved powers would enable us to move from merely tinkering around the edges of the Budget to shaping a Budget that suits the needs of our people.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

It is now four years since I spoke of the need to replace the cumbersome, convoluted ritual that we call the Budget process. It lacks clarity and transparency and does not allow for direct read-across and accountability. The then Minister — I am glad to see that he is here alive and well again today — agreed and was keen to improve the system. The Committee for Finance and Personnel did much work on it, we debated the issue in the House, and there was agreement on the way forward.

The matter was referred to the Executive, and there it has remained because the Minister of Education did not agree. He did not want the degree of accountability in his Department that would arise. I wonder why. Surely this ridiculous situation must come to an end. It is right and proper that all taxpayers' money should be clearly shown at all stages of the budgetary process. When will we have an improved financial process that is fit for purpose?

This is the final year of the Budget that was designed to cover the period from 2011 to 2015. There have been some interesting changes in that time, and, even working back, it is almost impossible to reconcile the figures at every stage. Of course, we are now faced with a new set of figures that, strangely enough, are similar to the 2011-15 resource and capital numbers. We know that many work areas and projects were not carried out. Indeed, some budget areas have disappeared altogether.

What have we to consider for the final year?

The sum to be applied out of the Consolidated Fund for the year ending 31 March 2015 is £8,411,921,000. That is certainly a significant sum of money. I would like clarity from the Minister of several areas in the Estimates in due course. To start with, a sum of £6·8 million in the OFMDFM Estimates for equal pay has been removed in the current Estimates. The Minister has been considering some sort of package for staff who had not been granted that award. I would be grateful if he would advise me of the current situation.

I also notice that several resource bids were anticipated to be made in the June monitoring round. They were classified as inescapable or high-priority. Why were they not included in the Department's Estimates as a matter of certainty? One bid referred to the Hillsborough sites, which are at a cost of some £1·3 million. I understand that it is necessary for maintenance and site security. How was that covered in the past? How does that significant cost relate to the capital value of the gifted sites?

The scale of the financial pressures in the Health Department appears to be severe. The respective Minister's estimate is that £305 million — 6% of the Department's total budget — is under stress. Is that another instance when in-year monitoring will be expected to take up the slack?

The Minister will not be surprised at my raising the issue of money being held in the centre. It would appear that there was over £800 million there last week. Will the Minister advise on the various sums at the centre and how and when disbursements will actually take place?

Finally, when the capital budget was set for 2011-15, it anticipated much more being spent in the 2014-15 year. A reprofiling exercise was conducted recently; indeed, the Minister referred to it. Capital appears to have been moved into the 2013-14 year. Therefore, I ask the Minister this question again: what other capital moves are planned or are likely in the current year?

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I welcome the opportunity to outline the Environment Committee's views on the Supply resolution for the Main Estimates 2014-15.

In a recent briefing to the Committee, departmental officials outlined the main aspects of the Budget position for 2014-15. They also referred to the additional amount of £12·75 million that has been ring-fenced by the Executive to enable the Department to meet the costs of local government reform. The Committee believes that it is essential that such a major change in the way in which this country is governed should be fully and properly resourced so that not only are the staff who join the administration of the new super-councils provided with appropriate training but there is a high level of capacity building to enable the new councils to fulfil their duties to the highest standards. The Committee has been supportive of the Department's plans to put such support in place. Adequate funding is an essential element in the delivery of the plans. The Committee welcomes that ring-fenced funding.

Officials also advised the Committee that further additional funding would be sought for the coastal communities fund. Members welcome any measures that aim to support the economic development of coastal communities by promoting sustainable economic growth and jobs so that people are better able to respond to the changing economic needs and opportunities of their area.

The main area of concern for the Committee in considering departmental resources is the adequate funding of environmental protection and enforcement measures. Within the past year, we have seen the impact of illegal waste dumping at Mobuoy, where the cost of reinstating the surrounding landscape is still being assessed. Although we welcome the Department’s review of its structures and procedures to ensure that such an incident never occurs again, the lack of resources available for environmental crime enforcement was a factor in allowing that situation to continue for such a protracted period.

Indeed, when we consider the extremely high cost of attempting to rectify incidents of pollution of all kinds, from the illegal dumping of tyres to the contamination of our rivers and waterways, we see that money spent on the prevention and detection of environmental crime is money well spent. For that reason, the Committee also supports the Department’s June monitoring bid for increased funding to retain the 10 temporary investigators working with the NIEA to respond to organised environmental crime. In addition, the bid will address protection measures for the River Faughan and the disposal of hazardous waste that has been tipped on public land, both of which are issues on which the Committee has previously expressed its concerns.

I will move on to the Committee's consideration of the Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill. We are glad that the Estimates include increased funding for road safety services for 2014-15. The measures introduced by the Bill will require an intensive and widespread public education campaign, possibly during this Budget period, and the Department will need to devote adequate and appropriate funding to ensure its success.

The Committee supports the Department's bid for additional funding under the June monitoring round and welcomes the resources delivered by the Main Estimates for 2014-15.

I now wish to say a few words on behalf of the Alliance Party. I want to mention briefly the racial equality strategy, which is now named 'A Sense of Belonging'. Given the recent increase in racism and the recent outcry, I think that we all need to redouble our efforts to get that long-awaited strategy produced. There is also a big need for the strategy to be resourced. A seven-year wait for the revised document is obviously unacceptable, and it indicates that the racial equality strategy has not been a high priority for OFMDFM. I also have to mention the lack of resourcing for the racial equality unit in OFMDFM. I understand that, at one stage, there was only one member of staff in the unit, although it now has five.

On the implementation of the strategy, I believe that all Departments will be asked to produce two to three meaningful actions to make a difference on the ground. How does the Minister intend to resource the strategy? Will funding be mainstreamed, or will it be sought through bids in the monitoring rounds? There is a big need for the strategy to be adequately resourced so that we can see proper actions and outcomes on the ground.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Mitchel McLaughlin] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Before we begin, I inform Members that questions 6 and 15 have been withdrawn.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

1. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the Delivering Social Change signature projects. (AQO 6272/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, with your permission, I will ask junior Minister McCann to answer this question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As Members will be aware, the Executive set up the Delivering Social Change framework to tackle poverty and social exclusion. It represents a new level of joined-up working across government to drive through initiatives that can achieve real and long-lasting social benefits for those who need them most. The benefits of this approach are illustrated by the multi-departmental, multi-agency and multi-sectoral implementation of six key cross-cutting signature programmes announced in October 2012 under a £26 million funding package. In addition, a further £1·6 million investment was announced in October 2013 to develop a future play and leisure signature programme. These programmes focus on early interventions and tackle the very root of issues before they have time to develop into problems.

We are already starting to see positive outcomes through the practical delivery. Over 900 family members have already received support through an intervention to support young people not in education, employment or training. Twenty new nurture units are in place and are playing a key role in improving the lives and educational attainment of our most vulnerable children. Over 225 teachers have been recruited to help children who are struggling with their English and maths, and a suite of parenting support programmes have been developed and are providing additional high-quality parenting support. In addition, the family support hubs and the social enterprise hubs are due to be fully operational by the summer. We look forward to seeing further positive outcomes as the programmes continue to progress, and, through the implementation of the Delivering Social Change framework, we remain committed to tackling the integrated, complex and sometimes spiralling issues that can lead to social deprivation.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the junior Minister for her response. Can she outline the number of families who have benefited to date from the nurture unit in Upper Bann?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I do not have the exact numbers for the Upper Bann constituency for the Member, but I can say that over 140 young people have already been assisted by the nurture groups. Junior Minister Bell and I visited some of the schools operating the nurture groups, and those facilities and services help not only the children but their wider families. They also help the teachers, and I think that they have been very productive. I will certainly get the constituency numbers that you asked for.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the junior Minister for her answers so far. First, on the spread of Delivering Social Change projects, are there any funding gaps in relation to one or more of the proposals? Secondly, can you explain why the June monitoring report was submitted to the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister two hours before it met last Wednesday, making it necessary for the Chair and the Deputy Chair to discharge themselves from their responsibilities and for the meeting to be chaired by another member of the Committee? Why were we given a paper of such import two hours before a Committee meeting began?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I will answer the Member's second question first. I know that there has been an ongoing problem with a number of Committees through the years, even when I sat on Committees, in getting that information. I will certainly look into it for the OFMDFM Committee.

To date, I have had no indication of any real problems in drawing down funding. The funding comes from a central Delivering Social Change fund and operates through the Bright Start childcare strategy. There is also the social investment fund and the central fund. To date, I have had no indication of any problems.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

2. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how they are tackling prejudice and prejudicial views towards the Muslim community. (AQO 6273/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister is committed to racial, ethnic and religious equality. We support the good relations work of the Belfast Islamic Centre through our minority ethnic development fund, and we will soon launch a revised racial equality strategy entitled, 'A Sense of Belonging'. As part of the consultation process, we will run public events to allow all people to contribute to the document. I encourage everyone to get involved in the process. The strategy must be fresh, informed and focused on the needs of the individuals and families that it represents. We can do that only if there is full participation not just from the minority ethnic sector but from everyone who wants to see all forms of prejudice and religious intolerance challenged and defeated.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. There is no doubt that recent comments about the Muslim community have been hurtful primarily to many in our community; however, they also undermine your work in trying to attract foreign direct investment to our shores. When will the racial equality strategy be published? It will be vital in helping to ensure that such episodes become a thing of our past.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Obviously, I agree with the Member that the events of the last couple of weeks have been shameful, and the comments of Pastor McConnell were very unfortunate. He has apologised for those comments, but their dramatic effect on the Muslim community in Belfast was evidenced by the conversations that we have had with the Muslim community at the Islamic Centre in south Belfast. Clearly, people were placed in an atmosphere of fear to such a point where one young woman who is a teacher in some of the schools said that she was afraid to go to her work. That is absolutely unacceptable. The steps that have been taken in the last short while to correct the situation were much needed. This will impact, if not handled correctly by us, on our prospects of attracting foreign direct investment. The story travelled all round the world, and I think that it was very damaging.

The racial equality strategy should be published and put out for consultation. I have cleared the draft, and I am optimistic that it will be signed off in a few days. A racial equality strategy will set the framework for tackling racial inequalities and promoting good race relations. Officials have been working with minority ethnic representatives through the racial equality panel to draft a strategy that will meet the needs and aspirations of minority ethnic people and wider society. We want to make sure that the document is fit for purpose, and we will continue to work in partnership with representatives of minority ethnic people with the consultation and the finalisation of the strategy to ensure that we achieve that aim.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I am sure that the deputy First Minister will agree that, whilst we should stand against racism in all its forms, in taking such a stand, it is equally important not to demonise or stereotype an entire community.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I absolutely agree that all of us in positions of political leadership have a duty and a responsibility to stand four-square beside one another but against racism and sectarianism in our society. I think that the big difficulty about the last short while is that it gives a distorted picture of the overwhelming majority of our people from every section of the community who want no hand, act or part in racism or sectarianism.

That represents a real challenge for all of us, and I think that it is a challenge that we have to rise to. I want to pay tribute to all those people who, over the last couple of weeks, have come on to the streets to protest against the comments that were made. In doing so, they send a clear message here on the island of Ireland, in Belfast and to the wider international community that we are a society moving forward and that we are not prepared to capitulate to those in our society who wish to portray us as being in any way sectarian, racist or, indeed, bigoted.

Fearghal McKinney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the deputy First Minister. I concur with him about the shameful nature of the remarks, and I acknowledge the fact that some words of apology were used more recently. Can he acknowledge just how deep the damage has been and, therefore, how comprehensive the remedy must be, up to and including an apology to not just the Muslim community but the rest of society here?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I certainly hope that all sorts of lessons will have been learnt from the events of the last couple of weeks. I know that this is not just about people in the Muslim community being offended. We have met these people on a number of occasions over recent years. These are very civilised, very cordial, very intelligent, highly educated people who make a massive contribution to our society. These are professional people, many of whom have the lives of our people in their hands on a daily basis, and they are people in whom I have absolute faith and trust. So I think that it was not just the Muslim community that was offended by this; I think that wider society as a whole was offended by this situation.

The focus now has to be on how we move forward and how we learn the lessons from the last couple of weeks. Remember that all of this is happening against the backdrop of what is clearly being reported by the PSNI as an increased number of attacks on ethnic minorities, particularly in the Belfast area, much of which has been instigated by elements within the UVF. That has been very, very clear for some considerable time, and I have been on the public record in the House stating that. That places a huge onus on all of us to stand together against the attacks, but to be very focused on what we need to do in the future. I think that the publication of the racial equality strategy, which is long overdue, needs to urgently address the issues that lie at the heart of this matter.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

There is a later question on the anti-racism strategy.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

Taking the deputy First Minister's comments into consideration, what financial or material support will his Department offer to the Muslim community to ensure that it has a cultural centre that meets its needs?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That is an issue that came very much to the fore during the course of the First Minister's visit and my visit to the Islamic centre. We have absolutely accepted that the Muslim community is entitled to a mosque, if a proper site can be found which is suitable for them. The First Minister is on the public record as saying that he believes that it would be appropriate, and I agree with him that, if necessary, public funds could be used to provide assistance with regard to the construction of a mosque in Belfast.

So, yes, I think that there is a huge responsibility on all of us to ensure that we deal with the needs and concerns of the Muslim community. Hopefully, the racial equality strategy will be contributed to in a very meaningful way when it goes out for consultation. Once that is put into effect, it, coupled with very strenuous efforts to provide a mosque, should send a powerful message to our people and to the international community that we are a very tolerant society that recognises that diversity enriches our society.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

What specific provisions relating to Islamophobia are going to be included in the new strategy?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Hopefully, within the next number of days, the Member will see the detail of what is being put out for consultation. Obviously, because of the events of the last couple of weeks, we are focused on the needs of the Muslim community and those people at the Islamic centre in south Belfast, but it is a wider issue. It is about our general attitude to people who come from far-distant shores to live among us. I am one of those people who absolutely believes that diversity is a good thing and a strength, and that our society is enriched by the presence of people from different cultures. We live in a world that is increasingly cosmopolitan, and there is a huge responsibility on all of us to ensure that the rights of people, and the associated equality, are implemented in a way that ensures that every section of our society, including the Muslim community, feel part of our society and wanted.

The experiences of people from this island over many centuries, when they went off to far-flung regions of the world, whether it be North America, Australia or wherever, were that they were badly received at a time of great ignorance. The fact is that that is now happening in our day, and there is still a very tiny minority of people in our society who have racist or sectarian attitudes. They need to get the very clear message that there is no place in our society for any of that sort of activity. The Member has been the subject of criticisms and attacks. I absolutely deplore her treatment and the treatment of all those who have come to live among us and make a massive contribution to our society.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

3. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what impact the disability strategy will have on the post-19-years-old special educational needs sector. (AQO 6274/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will ask junior Minister McCann to answer this question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Executive's disability strategy aims to set out a high-level policy framework to give coherence and guidance to Departments' activities across general and disability-specific areas of policy. It provides a framework for the implementation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities. The strategy emphasises the fact that young people with disabilities should be supported in addressing transition needs so that they have the same opportunities for growth and fulfilment as non-disabled young people. The strategy refers to article 24 of the United Nations convention relating to education, which includes access to an inclusive education system at all levels and lifelong learning.

Employment and employability are issues that require Departments to work together to support people with disabilities. The Executive's disability strategy aims to set out actions to promote education, vocational training and employment opportunities, as well as safeguarding the employment opportunities of those already in work. It aims to increase the opportunities for people with disabilities to attain skills and qualifications through access to appropriate training and lifelong learning opportunities.

In taking forward the delivery of the strategy, all Departments have committed to considering what needs to be done and how they will measure progress. One key aspect of the Department for Employment and Learning's contribution to the disability strategy will be to chair a cross-departmental focus group on transitions for young people with severe learning difficulties and disabilities.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for her answer. Does she believe that enough is being done at community level to help people with disabilities?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I think that the Member and others will agree that we have heard concerns of people with disabilities and their families about this issue. A transitions paper has been brought forward to that ministerial group. We will look at that very issue.

When young people leave school, or whatever they are at, aged 19 they can sometimes be very vulnerable without the support they enjoyed in the school setting. A team works with the parents and the young person to find work placements. It does not have to be just work placements; it can be volunteering, mentoring or whatever. There is a need to ensure that when we have that transition for the young person at 19 we have those community-based projects. There are some with very complex needs, and they might need to have a day care setting as well. It is very important that they are there.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As you know, the disability strategy has been out for consultation since last year. I cannot remember the month, but it was 2013. Theme 7, for instance, deals with the transition from childhood to adulthood, and theme 10 covers employment and employability. There are a number of themes that are directly connected with the transitional period, but there are also themes that look at, for instance, disability awareness and advocacy for people with disabilities in organisations. Monitoring and reporting are part of the strategy, as are employment and standard of living; tackling crime against people with disabilities; and access. That access is not just about access to transport or buildings, it is also about access to sports and leisure. There are clear themes that entail a cross-departmental approach and Departments working together to ensure that they are delivered in that way.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Does the Minister agree with me, a former teacher, that the provision for those children when they reach the age of 19 is appalling by any standard and does not register the type of equality that was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement? Does she further agree that it is time for this Assembly to stop sitting on its hands and to do something?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I said earlier that I, as a representative, have had constituents coming to my office to raise the issue of the lack of support and community-based activity facing people when they reach the age of 19. The ministerial group is now in place and that paper is coming before it. It will not solve everything, but the issue is being examined. It is a big issue, and it has been raised at that level.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

4. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for his assessment of the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action commentary on economic data published in March in relation to measuring the impact of the economic pact. (AQO 6275/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The economic pact contains measures that will promote and accelerate economic growth as we build a shared and prosperous future. We are making good progress with the package in areas such as job promotion; assisted area status; identifying further shared future projects; progressing our red tape review; promoting research and development; and broadband. There is further developmental work on corporation tax, the consideration of further fiscal devolution and the setting up of a joint ministerial task force that will address banking. Measuring how well we are doing with economic pact actions is straightforward, and we are due to meet the British Prime Minister later this month to discuss that.

The Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action (NICVA) commentary on economic data makes no reference to any difficulties concerning the measurement of the impact of the economic pact. The NICVA report puts forward some recommendations giving its views on ways to improve how we measure our total output, investment in exports, public expenditure and regional data. The recommendations that are of most relevance to the economic pact are those that relate to enhancing the accuracy of public expenditure data and strengthening measures of economic growth.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an fhreagra sin. Does the Minister believe that there is potential for improvement in local economic data?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There are some challenges associated with securing the level of information to facilitate a deeper understanding of all the dynamics of the local economy. We would benefit from the publication of input/output tables, which are currently in development. There are significant gaps in local public finance data, which exist because the Treasury in London does not publish disaggregated receipts. The accuracy of the estimates of locally generated revenue could be improved. Ultimately, it would be in our best interests to have a full set of accurate public sector accounts, and the British Government should support us in achieving this. Addressing the gaps would enhance local economic strategies as we would have greater information on local economic performance.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

As we are now approaching the anniversary of the economic pact, could the deputy First Minister indicate what progress has been made on it in the last year and whether any formal announcement is likely?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I think that considerable progress has been made on the commitments in the economic pact. Progress made against the actions is establishing the foundations for future economic growth, and, while we welcome that progress, it is important that we continue to work with the Government to ensure that all commitments are delivered in a timely manner.

Securing powers to lower corporation tax remains a key priority for the Executive to promote the growth of the private sector. We will continue to advance the case for the devolution of corporation tax within the time frame set out in the pact. Considerable progress has also been made against the key pact commitments on the review of business red tape. Considerable progress has been made on all four work strands of the review. I am encouraged by the positive engagement with business representative bodies, regulators and Departments. It is essential that businesses provide evidence to support emerging recommendations.

The pilot enterprise zone in Coleraine, announced in the Budget statement of 19 March, will offer enhanced capital allowances only as an incentive, potential to promote economic development and further investment in the area. Access to Finance welcomed the extension of start-up loan schemes here. Some 99 loans have been drawn down to date, with a total value of £459,000. I welcome confirmation that we will continue to benefit from 100% assisted area status, at least in the medium term.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

5. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the development of a racial equality strategy. (AQO 6276/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, with your permission, I will ask junior Minister McCann to answer the question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The deputy First Minister has already outlined in an earlier answer that we hope that it will be in only a matter of days. A number of events will be held in areas where there is a high proportion of minority ethnic people, and events will be facilitated in different languages, where relevant. We hope that that will be very soon.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

Given the hugely detrimental publicity around the world for Northern Ireland as a result of the disgraceful diatribe and venom coming from a Belfast pulpit recently, the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister must be hugely embarrassed and, indeed, ashamed that, in seven years, a strategy to tackle racial inequality has not been produced. Will the junior Minister tell the Assembly what specific issues have held up the strategy for seven years, and, if and when the strategy comes, will there be sufficient resources available to see it implemented without further delay?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Yes, I agree with the Member that it is unacceptable that it has taken so long. There have been issues on which we have needed political agreement, but those have hopefully been resolved, and we want to see the strategy published as soon as possible.

We believe that the strategy will be adequately resourced, and we will also set out in the strategy a number of points that we are specifically looking at to take it forward. The points include the elimination of racial inequality; combating racism and hate crime; the equality of service provision; participation; social cohesion; and capacity building for groups. Alongside the strategy, there will be a separate fund of £1·1 million from the minority ethnic development fund, which will also go some way.

However, I totally agree with you. The length of time that this has taken is totally unacceptable.

Bronwyn McGahan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. Minister, we understand the importance of the publication of the racial equality strategy, but what is OFMDFM doing to address the increase in racial attacks?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As I said last week when I spoke in the Assembly's debate on racist attacks, the strategy will in some part help, but much more needs to be done. One of the best things that we can do, as the deputy First Minister outlined in answer to a previous question, is stand together and show our support for those people who feel vulnerable and under threat. That goes right across society, for political, Church and community leaders.

We are also going to be taking a number of initiatives in the short term. For instance, we will look at having a leaflet campaign to try to send a visual message to our ethnic minority people. We will look to try to develop a multi-agency approach like there is, for instance, in south Belfast through the Round Table. We are going to try to put that in place in east, north and west Belfast and we are going to take the Unite Against Hate initiative forward again. So, there are a number of proposals and interventions that we are making, as well as putting out the strategy. Some are short term and immediate, some are medium term, and others will be more long term. However, I think that, at the minute, the important thing is to show support and solidarity to people out there.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

That ends the period for questions for oral answer. We now move on to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

1. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to assure the House that they will support the abolition of the discriminatory practice of the restriction on non-Catholic teachers being able to teach in maintained schools without a Catholic certificate in religious studies and take steps in OFMDFM to have the restriction removed. (AQT 1221/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

This matter lies within the remit of both the Department of Education and the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. It has been the subject of considerable debate over many years. I think that there is a huge responsibility on all the stakeholders to see whether a satisfactory outcome that all sides can live with can be achieved. I certainly encourage everybody to be involved in a very constructive debate on how to resolve the matter.

Brenda Hale (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the deputy First Minister for his answer. In his drive to deliver equality, and given his public statements both outside and inside this House regarding respect for other communities, will he outline how a non-Catholic accesses a certificate of religious education?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That is the challenge. What we are dealing with is the historical nature of education in the North of Ireland going back many decades since the partition of Ireland in the early 1920s. The Catholic education sector took up the mantle for the education of Catholic children, and as a result, practices were put in place that now, in the context of a society moving forward and evolving, necessitate everybody approaching the issue in a way that does not allow anybody to be open to the accusation of discrimination of any kind.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Mr Alastair Ross is not in his place, so we will move on. I call Mrs Sandra Overend.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

3. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to provide an update on the cross-departmental Internet safety strategy, for which they are responsible, especially as we come to the close of another school year, when our children, depending on the weather, might spend a higher than average amount of time on the Internet. (AQT 1223/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, junior Minister McCann will take this question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will be aware that we have had a number of meetings on this matter, and it is being taken forward. We have met the Safeguarding Board and the National Children's Bureau in recent weeks on the progress that has been made on taking the strategy forward. The forum that was being set up has already met.

When junior Minister Bell and I were in Brussels last week, we joined the Confederation of Family Organisations in the European Union (COFACE), which is an international organisation over there, for a conference that was video streamed to a number of countries. We have made some progress on connecting internationally on the whole area of the Internet and the digital safety of our children and young people. I certainly look forward to meeting the Member again to update her on the work that has been taken forward on that.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for that information. She mentioned that the e-safety forum has had its first meeting. Could the Minister nail down a time frame for the completion of the work of that e-safety forum and for such a strategy to be brought to the Assembly? Could she tell us what resources will be provided to it?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Again, I can only say that I take a keen interest in driving this forward because I have three teenagers. As a parent, I know that parents are looking to see what they can do and how they can help. We are trying to push the issue forward as quickly as possible. Work has been carried out, and we made connections when we were in Brussels, so we hope that the e-safety forum is now in a position to drive the strategy. The Member will know that the main responsibility is with the Department of Health, but, as junior Ministers, we are certainly keen to ensure that it is brought forward as quickly as possible.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

4. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, given that they will know that the Victims’ Commissioner has said that revelations about secret deals are eroding the trust and confidence of people who were bereaved and injured during the Troubles, whether the deputy First Minister, in considering that comment and in his role as the deputy First Minister, with the Victims’ Commission under his remit, will ensure that he and his colleagues take part in the inquiry by the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee and give evidence in a public, open and transparent fashion, rather than continuing to go on-the-run on the issue. (AQT 1224/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member needs to be conscious that, when I stand here as deputy First Minister, I represent a joint Department. I do not stand here as someone who has a duty and responsibility to speak for Sinn Féin. I speak for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. However, the question is valid in so far as it deserves an answer from my perspective. I make the point that I am not speaking on behalf of the First Minister on this issue.

Gerry Adams, Gerry Kelly and I met Lady Justice Hallett a few days ago. She has been given the responsibility to take forward an inquiry into the matter. The first thing to be said — I know that there is a dispute between us on the matter — is that it is absolutely nothing to with a secret agreement. All that was in the public domain, going as far back as Weston Park, and every single Member knows that. The Committee then took the decision to establish its own investigation, and I will flag up the difficulties that that presents. In the recent past, some unionist politicians have said to me that that body will probably not report until early in the new year, and it has been flagged up that the Ulster Unionist Party in particular is not prepared to engage in a way forward on dealing with the past until such times as that Committee comes in with its report. So it is not satisfied with any outcome from Lady Justice Hallett. That has huge implications for whether we as a body will deal with —

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I remind the Minister of the two-minute rule.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

— how we learn from the past and how we deal with other issues associated with it.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Given the role that the deputy First Minister has over the Victims' Commission, and given that victims are looking to that office for truth, honesty and, at times, justice, does the deputy First Minister want to apologise for his crass comment of, "How sorry do you want me to be?" for the specific acts that his Provisional IRA was involved in when he was a commander of the IRA? Will he apologise for that comment and step up and tell the truth about what he and his hate-filled Provisional IRA were involved in during the 30 years of conflict?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member needs to be conscious that, in the course of a conflict that lasted for a quarter of a century, many people were involved in violence, including many people supported by the Member and by all the unionist parties in the Assembly. I would like to think that the work that I have been involved in over the last 20 years, which I do not think even compares with the contribution that the Member and, indeed, many Members on the opposite Benches have made towards peace — [Interruption.] That work — [Interruption.] As the old Native American chief said, fine words, as some people expect here, mean little unless they amount to something. I think that the work that I have been involved in over 20 years has amounted to something. I have done that in the face of much opposition, including from some Members from the opposite Benches.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

5. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what they can do to ensure that their office aids and abets a coordinated approach to save householders in his constituency of North Antrim, particularly in Ballymena last night, where many families and households were subjected to flash flooding, with some flooded five times in the last six years. (AQT 1225/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am in total sympathy with those affected by the issue that the Member raises. There is a huge responsibility on us all to seek remedies to these situations in a very coordinated way. If you look at the events of the last couple of years, you see that it is quite obvious that all the Departments are working in a very coordinated way. Obviously, the Department in the lead on this situation is the Department for Regional Development, but we all have a responsibility to work together to ensure that the terrible circumstances that people faced in the Ballymena area are addressed as quickly as possible.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Although we commend people on the ground for their efforts, it took Roads Service an hour and a half to bring sandbags and the Fire Service two hours to bring an appliance to pump water. What more can the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister do to make sure that any coordinated approach is hastily put in place so that the damage done is not as bad and that houses are saved before they are flooded?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member can be reassured that we in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister take these situations very seriously indeed. They cause terrible trauma to those who have their household, in particular, and their business flooded. The way that we have established working processes in a very coordinated way among Departments has put us in a position of being able to deal effectively with quite a number of the unexpected situations that occur.

Over the last couple of days, the weather went from bright sunshine one minute to incredible deluges the next. I suppose that it is very difficult for the infrastructure to deal with that sort of situation. Also, in reality, no two situations are the same, so lessons are being learned all the time. It is incumbent on the Department for Regional Development and the Department of the Environment, supported by OFMDFM and other Departments, including the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, to ensure that we are well prepared to deal with fairly extraordinary weather outbreaks such as those we have seen in recent times.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

6. asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, in turning to a question that the deputy First Minister does not want to answer, given that, although, last week, he was very keen that his partner, the First Minister, should do a lot of apologising, he, as a victim-maker, went out of his way to insult and demean the innocent victims of the IRA by arrogantly asking “how sorry do you want me to be?”, would he today like to take a second opportunity to apologise for his condescending outburst. (AQT 1226/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It is obvious that the Member has selectively extracted one aspect of an interview that I gave to Stephen Nolan. He would be much better representing the totality of what I said on that matter. In my remarks, I clearly outlined my view that an awful lot of people, including republicans, had a lot to be sorry for in the events of the last 25 years. I include the people whom he supported in the state forces, who were up to their neck in violence for much of a quarter of a century.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Order. Time is up.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Questions 4 and 11 have been withdrawn.

Ross Hussey (UUP, West Tyrone)

1. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel for an update on the equal pay claim from Northern Ireland Office and PSNI administrative staff. (AQO 6287/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

It was clearly established in court that the equal pay settlement applied only to periods of service in the Northern Ireland Civil Service and did not apply to bodies such as the NIO and PSNI. So there is no valid equal pay claim. However, I am aware how strongly affected staff feel about this issue, and I have worked to find a way in which the moral argument that has been raised could be recognised in some way. As a consequence of that work, I recently circulated a paper to my Executive colleagues outlining a recommendation that will result, I hope, in a satisfactory resolution of the issue for this group of staff. The recommendation and any expenditure will require the agreement of the Executive.

Ross Hussey (UUP, West Tyrone)

Unfortunately, I did not quite hear the full response from the Minister. Is he aware that the rumour is that the proposal from the Minister has been put forward to the Executive and that he has said that it will take weeks to get through the Executive? Do we have a rough indication of when he expects this matter to be resolved?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Member, I am sure, would not expect me to operate on the basis of rumours. All I can say to the Member, the House and, more importantly, to those affected members of staff is that I have done the work that I need to do on putting forward a suggested solution, as it is at this stage, to Executive colleagues. The paper has been with the Executive for a number of weeks now. I understand the frustrations that some members of staff will be experiencing because of what they perceive as yet further delay in resolving this issue. I have done my bit. As I said, I have drafted a solution, and it has circulated around Executive colleagues. I await the agreement of Executive colleagues for that to come forward for debate and discussion at the Executive, and, hopefully, agreement to the solution that I have put forward.

On estimating how long that will take, I hope that it will be resolved and, indeed, it should be resolved as a matter of urgency, given the widespread support that there supposedly has been for a resolution over the last number of months. Because of that, I expect that it should be dealt with fairly quickly, but, as the Member will appreciate, not everything moves through the Executive as quickly as we would like. In that respect, even if I wanted to or were able to, I cannot put a clear guess or a clear estimate on when it might come forward for agreement, although I hope that it does so very soon.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Can the Minister clarify to the House that all groups, including home civil servants at AA and AO grade, have been consulted and have agreed to any proposed settlement?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I am not going to get into the detail of what is being put forward in the paper. What is in the paper and the detail that is included is still a matter of confidence between Executive colleagues and me. There has been no consultation, to use his word, about the specific paper that has gone forward other than, I have to say, I have listened very carefully to representations by, for example, Members of this House on behalf of affected staff. I have received much correspondence from affected staff since taking up post in late July of last year. So, in that sense, I have been listening constantly to representations about the need to deal with this issue conclusively. Although there may not be, as I mentioned previously in the House, a legal argument for dealing with this, there is a need to recognise the very strong moral argument that has been put forward. I hope that what is there in respect of a suggested solution not only meets with Executive colleagues' favour but will be welcomed by those staff affected and will draw a line under this issue.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Minister, you have indicated that you have submitted a paper for the consideration of your Executive colleagues. Can you indicate to the House the extent of the support that there has been, or has not been, from your Executive colleagues thus far?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I have received responses to my paper from roughly half of the Executive. I have received responses from Ministers representing our own party, the Alliance Party, the Ulster Unionist Party and the SDLP. Many of the responses have highlighted issues around the detail of the paper, which I welcome, because it is important that Executive colleagues feed back any concerns that perhaps have been represented to them by affected staff and seek clarification of how any scheme might work. That is to be welcomed and is a positive response. The responses have ranged from enquiries of that nature up to outright enthusiasm for the suggested solution that I have put forward.

To date, I have received no responses from Ministers representing Departments where Sinn Féin Ministers are in charge, so I am unsure of their position. However, I seek some solace from the fact that members of that party — particularly those on the Finance and Personnel Committee, where the issue has been voiced most strongly over the last year, 18 months and beyond — have been supportive of a solution. I hope that their support rubs off on their ministerial colleagues, and that they come forward with support for the solution that I have put to the Executive.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle, and, as a member of the Finance and Personnel Committee, I certainly will not speak on your behalf. I am sure that the Minister is aware that a large number of retired civil servants are very disgruntled that the settlement is a belated response for people who were discriminated against throughout their careers and who are still waiting for justice. Will the Minister clarify whether the paper that he has submitted deals solely with those in the PSNI and the NIO or whether it includes the small number of workers in NI Water who are in a very similar situation?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The paper that is before the Executive deals exclusively with PSNI and former NIO staff. It does not deal with the NI Water situation, as that is a matter for the Minister for Regional Development. I am very keen to see this resolved as quickly as possible. Early on in my tenure in office, I made the commitment to affected staff that I would reopen the issue and take a look at it again. I think I owe them that at the very least. I have been able to find a way to resolve the issue satisfactorily, and I hope that the Member, having been brave enough to rise and ask the question, can now impress upon his party colleagues in the Executive the importance of recognising the very points that the Member has made in respect of the moral argument that something has to be done for the staff who have been affected, and that they, too, can come forward with their support and that that support is not only forthcoming but forthcoming in a rapid fashion so that the issue can be dealt with conclusively.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister knows how perplexing this matter, and the inordinate delay, has been for the affected staff. Do I discern from what the Minister said that, whereas he has proffered a paper to the Executive, it has so far been blocked from being tabled for discussion by Sinn Féin, the party that likes to talk the most about equality in the House — and this is an equality issue? Is the Minister gently saying to us that expectations, for example, that this might have been dealt with in the June monitoring round are now to be dashed because of that obstruction?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Member is always less gentle than I would be in the use of terminology, which is something that I pride myself on.

It is not right to conclude that this could not be dealt with in the June monitoring round; it could still be dealt with. Submissions of bids by Departments for inclusion in the June monitoring round only concluded at the tail end of last week, and they have yet to be deliberated on by the Executive. I hope to do that at our next meeting, which is in about 10 days' time. I suppose that there is the possibility — I will put it no more strongly than that — that this could be dealt with at that point. Of course, as the Member has rightly identified and as he will understand and appreciate, because there is an expenditure element, the proposal that I have put forward would require a considerable amount of expenditure, which would have to happen within a tight monetary and budgetary context as well. It will require the agreement of all sides and all parts of the Executive to do that. The fact that every party in the House has come forward with support for a resolution to the problem bodes well for agreement at Executive level now that a viable solution has been put before them. So I remain optimistic that this can be agreed, and I share the hope of the Member and, I am sure, the rest of the House that this could be resolved in the short timetable that the Member has spoken about.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

2. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel for his assessment of whether the public sector reform agenda could be stimulated through invest-to-save measures. (AQO 6288/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Whilst public services must operate as efficiently as possible, public sector reform is not all about cost containment. Up-front investment may be necessary to stimulate innovation in service delivery, improve outcomes for citizens and generate savings. The public sector reform division in my Department is exploring potential financial incentives that may be useful in progressing reform initiatives, and those could indeed include invest-to-save measures. For example, I believe that a greater focus on preventative spending is key to encouraging innovation in our public services. Invest-to-save measures could provide the financial stimulus required to encourage preventative spending.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Further to that, which invest-to-save measures are being considered?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The public sector reform division in the Department is exploring possible sources of funding to support a range of reform initiatives, including the potential to establish a specific change fund. It is envisaged that a change fund would be based on invest-to-save principles that have been well established in Northern Ireland over the last number of years. The fund would be available to finance up-front investment in cross-cutting initiatives that are expected to generate savings in the longer term.

It is also envisaged that a change fund would be available to finance some of the innovative methodology, such as the innovation laboratories that we have commenced, to develop solutions to complex policy issues. I anticipate that the fund will be in place for 2015-16; the next financial year. However, given that discussions are at a very early stage in respect of next year's Budget, it is not yet clear what quantum of expenditure would be required.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that nowhere in Northern Ireland are public sector workers more demoralised at this point than in Coleraine? Can the Minister assure us that this is not just another device, homespun, to rob areas of Northern Ireland of public service jobs when the private sector is nowhere ready to absorb them?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I presume that, in framing that question, the Member is not suggesting that reform of the public sector is some of code for reductions in headcount. I hope that I have picked him up correctly in that respect. He is wrong if he is suggesting that that is the underlying ethos behind reform of the public sector. I have been pushing this issue, really since the start of my term in office, recognising, as I do, the need.

This will become crystal clear and more than apparent to Members of the House — if it is not already apparent — over the next weeks and months, as we start to conclude not only the Budget for 2014-15, as we are taking through the Budget (No. 2) Bill today and tomorrow, but as we start to develop the Budget for 2015-16. It will become crystal clear to Members and people outside the House that the money that we have to spend on public services is decreasing, in real terms, as we move forward. That will put severe pressure on the services that the people of Northern Ireland rely on.

From the outset, I never suggested that reforming the public sector is code for reducing the headcount; that is not something that I see as part of the agenda. Instead, it is about getting better outcomes with the resources we have or less. So, it is about improving how we do business, changing how we do business and learning from others' innovative methodologies and how they deliver public services. It is about not being afraid to say that we in Northern Ireland are not perfect at everything and acknowledging that there are others who do things perfectly well if not better, and learning from them and applying those methods to Northern Ireland.

This is about using the staff that we have in the public service in Northern Ireland. There are some very gifted, talented and able staff located across Northern Ireland. As a matter of urgency, because of the underlying problems in public spending moving forward, I want to see us get better outcomes from them for their work.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

3. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel how he plans to reduce the time taken to develop infrastructure projects. (AQO 6289/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Public infrastructure projects are critical in helping to underpin the economic growth of Northern Ireland. It is important that they are delivered expeditiously. The potential for improvement in the commissioning and delivery of public infrastructure projects was recently examined by a number of reports, including one from the Confederation of British Industry (CBI).

As chair of the procurement board, I established a subgroup to bring forward recommendations to improve government's performance and to draw up an action plan for implementation. That work is now complete and will be considered by the procurement board this week.

Having considered feedback from the subgroup, I intend to endorse the following key recommendations, among others. The first is that a centralised construction procurement and delivery service is established in the Central Procurement Directorate in my Department to be responsible for the provision of technical advice, procurement, project management and contract management relating to all government building projects. The second is that the Executive agree to a portfolio of strategically significant projects based on recommendations from my Department and the Strategic Investment Board. This will follow a zero-based review of the priorities for infrastructure investments. The third is that projects are reviewed quarterly to enable Ministers to report on the progress of those that are of strategic importance. Other recommendations are that Departments fully populate the ISNI delivery tracking system to enable the information it contains to form a regional infrastructure plan, improving the visibility of forthcoming projects to the local construction industry; and that the head of the Civil Service and permanent secretaries implement a change programme to support a delivery-focused culture in government.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

The Minister mentioned his hope for a more centralised procurement and delivery service in CPD. Has he been able to make any progress on that?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I have. For example, the Health Minister and I recently agreed that the functions of the Health Estates investment group would be transferred from the Department of Health to the Central Procurement Directorate in the Department of Finance and Personnel. A material result of that is that around 50 staff will transfer to CPD in October 2014. As for how having a more centralised approach to procurement and delivery will work in practice, the benefits of having centralisation and the shared experience that will come from CPD joining Health Estates will quickly become apparent. Those individuals will be responsible for specific technical advice, the actual procurement, and project and contract management. Responsibility for the prioritisation and ordering of health infrastructure projects will remain with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. It will also be responsible for the financing of those projects.

As far as I am concerned, the approach that the Health Minister and I have agreed to in respect of Health Estates is the way ahead in meeting the objective of having a more centralised procurement and delivery service in CPD, where the parent Department still decides the priorities for infrastructure. In Health's case, it decides where a hospital service or primary care centre will be provided. It is then the responsibility of CPD in my Department to ensure that that is delivered on time, to specification and within budget. That responsibility is taken from the Health Department, and it does what it does best, which is to deliver the service that flows from that. It is my Department's responsibility to make sure that the infrastructure is put in place in a timely manner. That is the way ahead. I hope that it is a template that other Ministers will follow and that they, too, will see the benefits of that approach.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra cuimsitheach chomh maith. I thank the Minister for his wide-ranging, comprehensive reply there, particularly on procurement issues. How many major capital schemes or further investment infrastructure schemes currently rest at his Department for sign-off?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I do not have the precise number of projects that are sitting before my Department awaiting sign-off. The Member is talking about business cases that other Departments have put forward to DFP for sign-off. We will certainly do our best to provide that information to the Member as quickly as possible.

With the issue of business cases, I am mindful of the criticism of the Department of Finance and Personnel, criticism that I do not always think is warranted. It is sometimes convenient to criticise DFP for slowing down projects because it is sitting on business cases. I have found through experience that the business cases had often not even arrived with DFP, yet we were already being blamed for slowing them up. I do not mind being blamed if we have slowed a case up, but, if we have not even got the paper, it is hard for us to slow it up.

We did analysis in the Department and found that we were turning business cases around in short order. I cannot remember the precise number of days, but it is not weeks and weeks and weeks, as some might think it is. As part of the work of the procurement subgroup, we have also looked at raising the delegated levels so that Departments will have to take some responsibility themselves. One of the other things that happen from time to time is that Departments pass on business cases to DFP, almost expecting us to mark their homework for them. They need to take on some of the responsibility themselves. They look to us to sit in judgement on the merits of a project or scheme, but it is important that Departments start to do that more themselves. Therefore, one thing that we will look at is whether we can increase the current delegated limit, which is, I think, £1 million, to perhaps £2 million for all business cases.

I am mindful of the criticism that is there. We have not turned a blind eye to it and instead have sought to address it. I do not think that all the blame is ours; in fact, I do not think that even the majority of the blame is ours. Hopefully, the work of the procurement subgroup and the recommendations that come forward will get endorsement from the whole procurement board and will be taken forward so that we see an even swifter turnaround of business cases, whether for infrastructure projects or not.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I remind the Minister of the two-minute rule.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

It is certainly good news that the Minister brings today. Minister, what progress has been made on fast-tracking other projects that could be substituted at short notice should a particular project not go ahead?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

That is incredibly important. You can put the procurement delivery vehicles in place as best you can — the merger of the Health Estates into CPD is a major step forward in doing that — but the Member is right: you need a pipeline, to use the vernacular of the construction industry, of projects that are ready to go in the best of times and the worst of times. In the worst of times, when we identify major projects that do not go ahead — the A5, for example — there is an urgency for the Executive to find projects. We will have something akin to that situation, I imagine, in June monitoring, as, early on in the financial year, as is always the case, Departments will identify capital projects that cannot go forward. They relinquish that cash pretty early, and it is then up to the Executive to find other projects that are worthwhile spending that money on. As the Member will appreciate and the House will understand, it is not always easy to bring forward major projects. You simply do not have the time to do that. One of the key recommendations that I am endorsing is that the Executive as a whole agree a portfolio of strategically significant infrastructure projects for Northern Ireland so that, when we get to Budgets and in-year monitoring and when situations such as the A5 arise — unfortunately, such situations arise from time to time, as that is just the reality of the type of projects that they are — we can pluck strategically important projects off the list and move them forward much more quickly than previously would have been the case.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

5. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel how allocations redistributed through monitoring rounds are assessed. (AQO 6291/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Executive's decisions on allocations during the monitoring rounds are based on a number of factors, not least the amount of resources available. When Departments submit monitoring bids, they provide a range of information, including how the proposal will impact on departmental objectives and the Programme for Government. Departments are also asked to rank their individual bids. All those factors are taken into account in the Executive's monitoring round decision-making.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for his answer. What protections are in place to ensure that allocations are made on the basis of evidence-based need?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Considerable work goes into analysing exactly the need of each bid that comes forward from Departments. In response to an earlier question, I said that Departments were given a period in which to come forward with their own priorities. They are, in some respects, responsible for ranking those priorities themselves against the actual need for the project. However, as the Member will appreciate, there is always more bid for than there are available resources. Therefore, other factors have to come into play sometimes, depending on the quantum of resources available to meet a bid, even a bid for which there may be pretty acute need. I imagine that June monitoring will be no different, although I do not anticipate there being much cash available. You will see bids partially but not completely met, because the Executive will want to try to meet something of quite a few things rather than all of one bid. Of course, there is an important factor, too, in each Department's ability to deliver on what it is requesting in-year. There may well be a need, but the quantum of resources that they are looking for may not be able to be spent within the year. Usually, that is not a problem in June, but it becomes increasingly a problem in October and certainly in January, as the financial year runs down and the ability to spend large amounts of money diminishes.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for that response. Will he outline what pressures the Budget faces in the current June monitoring round?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

As I said in response to Mr Brady and previous questioners, the Budget, as the Member will appreciate, is under increasing pressure. The June monitoring round process, whereby Departments make bids to the Department of Finance and Personnel and list and rank their bids, has just concluded. That is being analysed, and we hope to be in a position to agree it or certainly to put something to the Executive by their next meeting in a week or so. I cannot give specifics on the bids, much as the Member and the House might like me to. As I said, the process has just concluded, and we are looking at those bids. We will come forward to the Executive with our recommendations on how those bids can or cannot be met.

The one thing that I can say without getting into the specifics is that I know that June monitoring, as is the case, indeed, with the whole Budget moving forward, will be immensely challenging. It is not helped by the fact that there is still no agreement to proceed with welfare reform. This year alone, in June, we will have to deal with the £13 million that has already been lost through penalties for non-compliance last year, and we will have to deal with the £87 million penalty for non-movement on welfare reform this year. Already, before we go in and try to meet bids — I know that many are urgent and that Departments are in great need of that cash — we are in a situation where around £100 million is being taken from our Budget because of non-compliance with welfare reform. I think that many Departments will be disappointed in the June monitoring round, but many of those will be Departments that are headed up by a Minister from a party that is ensuring that there is no progress on welfare reform. Therefore, any failure to meet the bids from those Departments will, in effect, be self-inflicted wounds.

Fearghal McKinney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Could I just to drill down into the process a little bit more to see what has primacy in the distribution in the June monitoring round or any other monitoring round? Is it a government target, or is it the Department's? Given the process that he just outlined, is he not in danger of spreading the butter so thinly that it satisfies neither the Department's ambition nor the Executive's target?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Unfortunately, that is the reality; that is what government is all about. It is about making choices. We are being forced to make choices in increasingly difficult fiscal circumstances that are not helped by the fact that, as I mentioned in response to Mr Anderson, we are shooting ourselves in the foot, so to speak, by not proceeding with welfare reform. We are being forced to pay penalties that we should not be paying. What is being spread will have to be spread even thinner as we move forward, and we already face the reductions coming through from Tory cuts from Westminster as well.

When it comes to which priorities are met, there is a range of issues that we will have to look at, not least the overall picture of what resources are available. You could have, as we have had in the past, tens of millions of pounds' worth of bids but considerably less than that with which to meet them. So, we are having to look at things such as Programme for Government targets and priorities and things that are inescapable legal requirements. There are frequently bids — the Member will see this in the June monitoring round paper as well — that have been committed to in the past or where we legally have to comply with certain things and they have to be met over and above something that is, perhaps, even a Programme for Government target. That is just the nature of the beast, and we have less money than we need to pay for everything that we want to pay for, so choices have to be made. That is what governing is all about.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

The Minister has already outlined that bids are often for more than the supply of money that is available. What steps does he take to ensure that, where any bids have been previously supplied, the moneys are spent?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

That is monitored on an ongoing basis throughout the financial year and is ultimately dealt with in the provisional out-turn, which I will come forward with for the last financial year in late June or early July of this year. There is ongoing discussion and correspondence backwards and forwards between my Department and others to ensure that money is being spent and that pressures that have arisen within the year are being addressed through the allocations that have been made to them.

Departments do not always spend exactly what they anticipated they would spend. That is why, at the end of the year, there will sometimes be underspends in Departments. Thankfully, we have the Budget exchange scheme in place, which allows us to roll forward expenditure into the subsequent year, but I do not want Departments to get into that habit and think that they can just not spend the money on what they were given it to spend on. To be fair, I do not think that most Departments make erroneous bids. They will make bids for genuine pressures, when there is genuine need, and will spend the money accordingly.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

That brings us to the end of the period for oral questions. We now move on to topical questions.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

1. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel when he expects the Budget for 2015-16 to be prepared. (AQT 1231/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

When the 2015-16 national expenditure situation was clear, I wrote to Executive colleagues outlining the process as we move forward. During November and December 2013, my officials also undertook a pre-consultation exercise with a range of key external stakeholders. That included major business organisations, trade unions and voluntary and community sector representatives as well as the Committee for Finance and Personnel, of which Mr Cree is a member. I aim to have a final Budget in place by Christmas 2014. That would necessitate a draft Budget being agreed by the Executive for consultation early in the autumn.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for that response. Does he anticipate any changes to the Programme for Government as a result of that Budget exercise?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Changes to the Programme for Government that flow from the Budget are ostensibly the responsibility primarily of the First Minister and deputy First Minister as they are the owners of the Programme for Government. They will have to come forward with their recommendations about what we do with it.

We are in the situation of having agreed a Programme for Government and, indeed, a Budget, thinking that they would take us up to the end of this Assembly's mandate, which has been extended by a year. That poses a range of questions for the Executive as a whole on the Budget and whether we need to do radical surgery on it. Many Executive colleagues might think that that is a good idea, given the pressures that their Departments are under. Others might think that an extension of spending patterns from the previous year might be the most sensible thing. That and whatever spending review flows after it might be the easiest thing to agree given that it is only a year until the next Assembly elections.

Similarly with the Programme for Government, many targets would probably follow through and be extended into another year, whereas others, given emerging needs, demands and issues, would have to be added into that alongside the updating of other targets.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

2. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel whether he expects a bid from the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety in the June monitoring round. (AQT 1232/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I always expect bids from the Health Minister coming up to monitoring rounds. I am aware — the Member is maybe better aware and better placed than I am on this — of media coverage on the pressures that the Health Minister believes his budget to be under. I absolutely expect that, as in previous monitoring rounds, he will come forward with a range of bids to deal with those very real pressures that he faces.

Alex Easton (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he expect to be able to meet the bids that are submitted by the Health Department?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I would like to be able to meet the bids that the Health Minister is coming forward with. I know that his Department is almost insatiable in its demand for resources. It is under constant pressure. The fact that the Minister has endeavoured to drive out waste from his budget and has done so to the tune of several hundred millions of pounds over the last number of years shows that he is trying to do the right thing to reduce costs in his Department. Nevertheless, the pressure in that Department is constant and continual.

I think that my ability as Finance Minister to recommend to the Executive that all or even a substantial chunk of the bids that are coming forward be met in June monitoring is hampered by the fact that other Departments are coming forward with pressures.

The envelope of available finances is less than we would like. As I mentioned, we are, of course, facing the reality of penalties for welfare reform. I think that it is a shame and, indeed, a disgrace that, in a scenario in which Health, Justice, Education and other Departments, which deliver front line services that vulnerable people in Northern Ireland badly need, are facing such pressure that we cannot address, even in part, some of those pressures because we are having to squander money by sending it back to Westminster because we cannot move forward with welfare reform.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

3. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to update the Assembly on the bill of reductions process and addendum to the business case for the Community Safety College at Desertcreat. (AQT 1233/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I do not have the full detail of the reduction in costs. It is not primarily a responsibility for my Department. The Department of Justice heads up the procurement and is taking it forward. My Department is involved in many respects, not least the financing and the continuing flexibility that we have received from Westminster to finance this with some end-year flexibility. However, the procurement, the cost and reducing that cost to try to ensure that the project remains a reality are not, first and foremost, the responsibility of my Department.

Barry McElduff (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. The project offers major, significant opportunities for employment, not least for the construction sector. Is the Minister concerned that it is taking too long to be finalised?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

As I say, I am not responsible for it, nor will I stand in judgement or be critical of other Ministers or Departments because projects have not moved forward. The Member will be well aware — Mr Cree raised this issue with me in respect of the likes of the A5 — that big capital projects, particularly those of the quantum of Desertcreat and the A5, will habitually, unfortunately, meet problems with delivery because of their nature and complexity. I regret that that happens. It happened in those two cases at times very close together and, therefore, created the impression that it happens all too frequently.

I think that it is worth pointing out that, annually, we spend well over £1 billion on infrastructure, and most of that goes ahead without any headache or problem whatsoever. In recognising the very real economic benefits that the college brings forward, never mind the community safety benefits, it is important that any outstanding issues are resolved very quickly so that we can proceed with the project or, as Mr Cree said, if there is an issue with funding or an issue that means that the scheme cannot move forward in the timescale first envisaged and is delayed, we can have other equally valuable projects that we can spend the money on as quickly as possible.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

4. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel whether he agrees that the payroll problems experienced in the health service raise serious questions that should be addressed by the Executive, as such IT and technical problems could affect any upgrading programme in any Department. (AQT 1234/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Once again, it seems to be the day for me to be asked about everybody else's responsibility but not my own. I am happy to come here any time to answer questions about my responsibility.

That is not to denigrate the very real payroll issues affecting staff in the health service. I understand that there are issues with HMRC, the emergency tax code that people were put on and the inaccuracies contained in that. I understand that there are also issues with the timeliness of the submission by staff of information on, for example, overtime.

My Department is not responsible for payroll services in the Department of Health. We are, however, responsible, through HR Connect, for payroll services for the Civil Service and a few other agencies. My Department is responsible for just shy of 30,000 members of our public service. At present, the monthly payroll accuracy in HR Connect is 99·9%. So, it is almost as good as it can get in ensuring payroll accuracy for the some 30,000 public servants whose pay is my responsibility.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer, even though the issue goes, as he said, beyond his remit. Are all Departments deploying the same software?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

No, they are not, and this is a very good example of where it is not the case and where the Department of Health is using a different system for its 70,000 to 80,000 employees. Given that it is successful, paying at 99·9% accuracy rate and that there is, I understand, spare capacity in the system or could at least be built on to the existing system, I encourage all Departments whose bodies, agencies or arm's-length bodies are not using HR Connect to look very seriously at it as a shared services option to roll their payroll into. Given current performance, that would not only ensure accuracy in the delivery of pay to individual members of staff but will help to reduce costs, because the more individuals who are getting paid using HR Connect, the bigger the reduction will be in the unit cost for each person.

I have tried to encourage all Departments to look at that, and I have been in discussion with the Minister of the Environment about the possibility of using it in time for our new councils, as they look to realise savings as a result of RPA. So there is huge scope for HR Connect to be expanded as, indeed, there is for quite a few of our shared services that are quite successful in Stormont.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

5. asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel whether he is prepared to follow the example of his ministerial colleague the Minister of the Environment and relocate jobs to Coleraine to mitigate the impact of the disastrous Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) decision, given that, last week, his ministerial colleague the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment gave a very disappointing response to the same question, saying that she would look at that in the context of local government reorganisation, which would be far too late for the DVA workers. (AQT 1235/11-15)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Member will be well aware that the Minister of the Environment and I have been working very closely on that issue. He and I took on responsibility to bring a paper to the Executive, and, indeed, we brought it to the Executive in the last number of weeks. I welcome what the Member's party colleague and my Executive colleague Mr Durkan has done in relocating jobs from DOE to Coleraine. As the Minister primarily responsible for those staff, it is, first and foremost, his responsibility to do that.

I know that other Departments have been actively looking at opportunities that may exist in their Department to redeploy staff to Coleraine and to the other affected areas in Northern Ireland. That was the whole emphasis of the paper that was circulated around Executive colleagues. The Member will appreciate from his time in government that it is not always easy to do that in the sort of time that we have for that issue, because time is marching on with the end of the existing work coming up in the summer. I have confidence and faith that Executive colleagues are doing their best in looking at relocating his staff, but it is not always as easy as the Member might wish it was, and he will know from his time in government, having not moved a substantial amount of jobs out of Belfast to anywhere else, that it is not that simple and straightforward.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I think that the record shows that, when I was Minister, I did relocate jobs out of Belfast in moving jobs to Derry for social security purposes, for the carrier bag levy and for other reasons. The issue is that, last week, your ministerial colleague the Enterprise Minister chided other Ministers who are responsible for large volumes of staff in their Departments. Your Department has over 3,000 staff. Given the paper that you have been working on with Mr Durkan, why are you not able to say today that you will relocate 50, 100 or 150 of the 3,000 jobs that fall under your responsibility?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Very simply, a substantial number of the staff under my responsibility in the Department of Finance and Personnel are not at the grades that are affected in Coleraine. The Member will know full well that the majority of the grades affected are at AA and AO level. A substantial number — in fact, the larger percentage — of my staff are not at that grade. You cannot move someone in a job at a different grade to Coleraine to take up the slack if there are AAs and AOs there. So it is not as simple and as straightforward as the Member thinks it is.

I commend the Minister of the Environment for what he has done to date. As I said, it is primarily his responsibility, as the Minister responsible, to address it first and foremost. I will continue to encourage other Ministers who have larger complements of staff to similarly do so, but we all have to appreciate and understand that it is not an easy matter to do in the short timescale that is available to us in respect of the DVA jobs in Coleraine.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

That concludes Question Time. The House will take its ease while we change the top Table.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair)

Executive Committee Business

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to today's debate on the Main Estimates. In the context of continued economic instability and the requirement on the Assembly to address local needs and prioritise, this is a critical debate. It covers our final spending plan for 2014-15. I thank departmental officials for briefing the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the Main Estimates. The officials took the Committee through the changes that occurred during each of the monitoring rounds. I want to focus on a couple of the issues.

First, as the party spokesperson on disability, I see a necessity for budgeting to change to ensure that those with a disability are prioritised within local spend. The welfare cuts agenda will hit sickness and disability claimants the hardest. Indeed, the 66,000 individuals adversely affected by the incapacity benefit reforms can expect to lose an average of almost £3,500 a year. The 67,000 people losing out as a result of the changeover from disability living allowance to personal independence payments by an average of more than £2,100 will have a devastating impact on the most vulnerable in our society.

I believe that we need an independent assessment of the impact of the proposed cuts to welfare reform on sick and disabled people and their carers and families, drawing on the expertise of the Work and Pensions Select Committee in Westminster. We also need to ensure that the proposed budget reductions being brought forward by the British Government do not negatively impact on services to disabled children. It is important that children with disabilities are given the best opportunity to reach their full potential and are fully integrated into society. There must be no barriers to participation for disabled children.

As poverty is one of the key indicators in preventing children with disabilities from leading an improved lifestyle, some of the proposed cuts in budgets will only add to the number of children who fall under the child poverty level. Health and Education combined need to ring-fence and prioritise funding in that area.

We also have a higher percentage of households with children than those who live in Britain. As well as having more families, we have a higher proportion of larger families with four or more children.

Our rates of persistent child poverty are more than twice those in Scotland, England and Wales. The income of families with children has already been badly affected by the welfare reforms introduced since 2010, with a consequent lowering of living standards for those in the bottom half of society. Those families face a further drop in living standards over the coming three years, and we need to protect families in any way we can.

I also welcome the Health Minister's recent announcement of a new pioneering device to help those with diabetes. Although it is being piloted in the South Eastern Trust, I urge the Health Minister and, indeed, the Minister of Finance and Personnel to prioritise it to allow the 80,000 people here who suffer from diabetes to benefit from it and to ensure that, once it is piloted, it is not a case of a postcode lottery as to who can avail themselves of it. Everyone entitled should receive it. I hope that the Minister is prioritising and is able to ring-fence much-needed funds for it, as diabetes is the fastest-growing health threat here today. Statistics for the Strabane and Omagh districts in my constituency show that the number of people with type 2 diabetes has increased by 1,000 over the past five years.

Again, I want to major on the A5 and the £108 million that was handed back and reallocated to capital projects in DHSSPS and DRD. The A5 is vital for the economic infrastructure west of the Bann, as recent economic investment, inward and indigenous, has been lost in favour of other areas because of our road infrastructure or, indeed, lack of it. The A5 is a strategic must for the region and a massive influencer on the decision of an investor to our region west of the Bann, but I am reassured that the A5 remains an Executive priority. Hopefully, the money coming forward will be reallocated to it.

We also need to deal with the challenge of youth unemployment. There needs to be a robust partnership between government and employers. Some 22% of young people aged 18 to 24 are unemployed, and 30% of the total unemployed are aged 18 to 24. Twenty-five thousand people exit the North every year. That represents a huge pool of talent and youthful ambition that is being lost to our economy. Forced emigration and unemployment has been a scourge on our society for generations. Emigration has been utilised as a political safety valve since the economic crash. We still raise too many of our children for export. It is one of the great failures of our society, and there is a massive human cost to it. The curse of emigration is causing untold misery to families the length and breadth of this state. I have met many parents who have been in tears as they recounted the fact that the children they have reared and educated have been forced to leave for Canada, Australia and elsewhere. Increasing numbers of families are fragmented, with their children scattered around the world, and, as a consequence, we have a Skype generation. We must offer our young people a real choice — not just the dole or the plane out. We must offer our young people a credible youth guarantee scheme, and we need a cross-departmental working group to address emigration.

The number one priority of the Executive — rebalancing the economy — has yet to be fully achieved and is a work in progress. There has been considerable improvement, but, despite all the efforts made and good work done, challenges continue.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Tá mé thar a bheith buíoch díot as seans a thabhairt dom labhairt ar chúrsaí airgeadais anseo inniu. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on the Main Estimates. Initially, I will speak as Chair of the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee on DETI's capital allocations, which are £3·4 million in relation to tourism development and £10 million in relation to Invest NI's agrifood loan scheme.

At last week's meeting on the June monitoring round, DETI reported that the £3·4 million for tourism development resulted from a bid from the Northern Ireland Tourist Board against the events fund. Of that, £2·3 million is for contractual commitments, where letters of offer have issued to event organisers. Those cover international events, the sponsorship of national events and pre-commitments for the Tall Ships 2015. Given that such events are usually planned and organised well in advance, it is entirely unclear — to me, certainly — why those requirements were not identified during the original Budget process.

In evidence to the Committee for Finance and Personnel, it was further stated that there was a Budget realignment of £12·2 million, where the Executive took money from DETI in acknowledgement that there was not as much economic stimulus at that point, and a further £7 million on the capital side for the same reason.

This year's monitoring round identified that Invest NI is now seeking the reinstatement of £7·7 million to its resource budget, along with a further £2·8 million resource allocation. DETI is also making a bid for £6·6 million for its capital budget through internal reallocations.

In summary, the DETI/Invest NI resource budget was reduced by £12·2 million due to the economic downturn. Invest NI is now seeking to have £7·7 million from its allocation reinstated, along with a further £2·8 million, making a total resource bid of £10·5 million due to the economic recovery. The DETI/Invest NI capital budget was reduced by £7 million due to the economic downturn, and Invest NI is now making a bid for £6·6 million for its capital budget due to the economic recovery. Given the short period between the original budget Estimates and the current Estimates, the figures support the view that there is considerable uncertainty around budgetary requirements for Invest NI in what remains a volatile economic climate.

I stood here roughly a year ago to inform the Assembly that, in June monitoring 2013, Invest NI had made a bid for £9 million due to increased economic activity. That further supports previous calls for end-year flexibility in Invest NI's budget. I brought that to the attention of the Assembly last year, and I reiterate it today. As the economy is the Executive's number one priority, we must recognise the importance of Invest NI to the development of the economy. We should provide it with the flexibility it needs to conduct its affairs in a confident and professional manner with a prudent level of financial flexibility, rather than having it continually coming back to the Executive with its begging bowl every time a substantial investor makes a commitment.

I will now speak with my party hat on. We have heard references to uncertainty, tourism and tourism development. It is appropriate that a number of domestic local factors over which we have some control are inherently part of the problem of the fluidity between semi-certainty and uncertainty. For example, issues such as flag protests are certainly not going to attract tourists to the North by any means, manner or fashion. Those things add uncertainty to the image we give abroad. I have done some research into this. The image sent abroad in recent weeks from the most senior member of the Executive, Peter Robinson, as he endorsed extremist comments from Pastor McConnell, made this place sound very unwelcoming and not tourist-friendly. That is the absolute opposite of what we know the rest of our neighbours and friends to be: a welcoming, good, charitable and hospitable people. That was a very wrong message to send across the world.

Just so that people are not in any doubt about what that may cost us economically, I will put something on record. We send a message to people across the world, whose only difference from us is that they are of a different religious persuasion. We are supposed to cherish, respect and nurture that difference. That should be the message coming from the Assembly. I hope that that message goes firmly on record as the true voice of the people of the North.

For the record, the total number of Muslims in Asia in 2010 was around 1·1 billion, which was 25% of the population. Asia is home to the world's largest Muslim population. Sixty-two per cent of the world's Muslims live there, with Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh having the four largest Muslim populations.

Islam is the largest religion in Africa. I will come to my point here. Members may not want to listen to the facts or realities of this, but, in Asia in 2012-13, the export market was worth £386·2 million, which was worth 14·7% of rest-of-the-world sales. The total for the Middle East was £221·3 million, which represented 8·4%. The total in Africa was £169·8 million, which was 6·4%, while, in Turkey, the total was £24·1 million, or 0·9%. Those figures relate to and impact directly on the businesses offering a future to our young people and stability for our local community. The clear message from here should be that we are welcoming to difference, that we accommodate difference, that we respect difference and that we want to do business with people from differing backgrounds rather than insult their culture and where they come from.

In future, when people are doing business across the world, they should be very careful about what they say when they want to attract economic activity, when they want to have investment in our country and when they want exports from the North to be readily accepted by people of differing backgrounds. They should be respectful.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Yes, I will give way.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member talks of respect in this new era that we are living in, in which everybody has to be respectful of everybody else. Does that include the Black brethren in Dunloy at the weekend who were allowed to walk only about 20 yds outside their own Orange hall because of intransigence and the inability of republicans and nationalists in that village to show tolerance and respect for diversity and those who have a different culture?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order. Before the Member responds, I am sure that the vast majority of Members in the Chamber will agree that we have now gone well off the Supply motion. If I had not been here a minute ago, I would not have a clue what we are debating.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

I think the Member, in his unique way, probably makes the point. Respect is given when respect is cherished, and when those whose activities, be they verbal or physical, show respect for people and respect difference, they will get that back.

You are quite right, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am not quite sure how a band parade in Dunloy contributes to the economic activity of an area, other than maybe to slow the place down for a day so that people cannot get in to do their shopping, but — [Interruption.]

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Now you see the problem that I have: several Members are shouting from a sedentary position. That is not the conduct of an Assembly that is worried about the economy and hoping to do business.