Northern Ireland Assembly, 12 January 2015

308 contributions from 69 members. The official report.

Executive Committee Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Before we proceed to today's business, I welcome Members back after the recess.

I inform the House that the Education Bill received Royal Assent on Thursday 11 December 2014. It will be known as the Education Act (Northern Ireland) 2014.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I also inform the House that the Work and Families Bill received Royal Assent on Thursday 8 January 2015. It will be known as the Work and Families (Northern Ireland) Act 2015.

Committee Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I have received the resignation of Mr Alastair Ross as Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges and that of Paul Givan as Chairperson of the Justice Committee. Mr Alastair Ross has been nominated as Chairperson of the Committee for Justice, and Mr Jimmy Spratt has been nominated as Chairperson of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, both with effect from 10 December 2014.

Matter of the Day

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Mr Danny Kinahan has been given leave to make a statement on the terror attacks in Paris. If other Members wish to be called, they should rise in their places and continue to do so. All Members called will have up to three minutes to speak on the subject. I remind Members that I will not take any points of order on this or any other matter until the item of business has been finished.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I welcome this opportunity to speak on this incredibly important matter of the day. We in Northern Ireland are well aware of the brutal realities of terrorism, yet the events in France last week shocked, I am sure, even the most hardened of us. The murderous attacks on the cartoonists and journalists at the Paris offices of the satirical magazine 'Charlie Hebdo' included the murder of two policemen and were followed by the murder of a policewoman and the hostage-taking and murder of four people in a kosher supermarket, also in Paris.

This trail of blood lays bare all the ingredients that make up terrorism in our age: fanaticism, intolerance, sectarianism and, above all, a complete lack of respect for human life.

I am acutely aware that we must not be selective when condemning terrorism. We remember the dreadful attack by the Taliban on the school in Peshawar, which left more than 150 people, many of them children, dead. This weekend in Nigeria, 20 people were killed by Boko Haram female suicide bombers, one of whom was reported to be just 10 years old. This comes after hundreds were reportedly killed by the same militant Islamist group last week.

Whether it is France, Pakistan or Nigeria, terrorism kills innocent people and is a threat to our civilisation.

The Paris attacks were an explicit attack on the freedom of speech, which is the central tenet of liberal democracy. We do not have to search very far for the motivation of the terrorists who struck in Paris; no one should give them any cover by talking of western foreign policy. The terrorists were explicit: they attacked a free press because, in their world view, the cartoonists insulted their religion, and the attack on the Jewish supermarket exposed their sectarian mindset. Anti-Semitism is appalling, as is the spate of attacks on mosques.

Let us, in our condemnation, be very clear: all institutions, including organised religions, should be subject to criticism and satire. 'Charlie Hebdo' ridiculed many institutions and all religions; it is part of the European tradition of satire. There is no absolute right not to be offended; that is something that we in Northern Ireland should always bear in mind. We should also remember the murderous attacks against the 'Belfast Telegraph' by the Provisional IRA, plus the attempted and actual murder of 'Sunday World' journalists by so-called loyalists. Terrorists cannot abide a free press.

A letter writer to 'The Daily Telegraph' said it very well this morning:

"We should show respect for other people, not their beliefs. These should be fully open to criticism, ridicule and opposition."

If we believe in a free society, rather than in a theocracy of any denomination, we must defend the Enlightenment values of free speech, freedom of democracy, liberty, equality and fraternity from all others. If I can apologise for my French, we should all be saying, "Nous sommes Charlie", and I can certainly say, "Je suis Charlie", but also, "Je suis Juif".

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I join with the rest of the Members who will speak on this motion in fundamentally condemning the attacks that took place over a number of days in Paris and outside Paris.

They came after other attacks on mainland Europe, particularly the attack on the Jewish museum in Brussels. The crimes of the victims in France varied from satire, being Jewish or simply being a police officer on duty that day. A real sense of fear, even through our television screens, came across because there was a sense of the unknown pervading the streets of Paris and elsewhere.

Of course, we are very much aware that Islamic extremists were the perpetrators. Just as in Northern Ireland, where the terrorists did not speak for the community during their worst excesses, very much Islamic terrorists do not represent the Muslim world.

As Enterprise Minister, I have had the pleasure and privilege of working with many from the Muslim world over my period in office and, of course, will continue to do so.

The horrific death toll in Paris, and it is horrific, leads me on to other outrages that have occurred. Those outrages may not have occurred in the Western world, and perhaps that is why they have not had as much attention. In particular, we have heard about Pakistan and what is going on Iraq with the sectarian violence and the violence against Christians and the Yazidis. We have also heard about what is happening in Nigeria, where just last week it is believed that a town was razed to the ground and 2,000 people lost their life. That is an absolutely shocking indictment of what is going on in the world today. More than a million people have been displaced in Nigeria, hundreds of thousands have fled to neighbouring countries, and many children have been separated from their parents and simply do not know whether their mothers and fathers are alive or dead.

Back in the United Kingdom, we must be alert and work with the lawful authorities to try to prevent anything similar from happening here. I commend the work of our security services, which are working against those in the shadows and the terrorists. I also appeal to the House to support the work of international agencies to try to deal with horrors in places such as Iraq and Nigeria. A human life is as valuable in Nigeria as it is France and the UK, and I ask the House to reflect that.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Like the rest of the world, we watched with outrage what happened in Paris last week. On behalf of Sinn Féin, I extend my sympathies to all the victims and their families, and we extend our solidarity to the people of France at this very difficult time.

There can be no place for anti-Semitism, Islamophobia or any form of racism in our societies, whether in Africa, Asia, Latin America or here in Ireland. Non au racisme et à la xénophobie. I am saying, "No to racism and xenophobia" in my poor French.

Religion or religious belief is the fig leaf that will be used by some to rationalise the attack on those workers. No grievance or religious slight, no matter how strongly felt, can justify such an attack, and no cause is served by it. Such attacks are also used by some to introduce more oppression and oppressive laws and to attack fundamental freedoms, and that must be resisted.

We are also outraged at what is happening in Nigeria, Iraq, Syria and other parts of the world. Indeed, I visited Gaza not so long ago and saw for myself the pain and suffering of the people there. I do not want anyone in the world to experience such pain and suffering, regardless of where they live and what they believe. My abiding memory of that visit to Gaza is of a meeting with a seven- or eight-year-old girl. We were at her house, which had been destroyed, and her entire family had been wiped out. Like people in France, that little girl also lost her family. I have no doubt that the people of France do not want to see what is happening in Gaza happening anywhere.

French people, through their work with aid agencies, are leading from the front. Médecins Sans Frontières is leading the fight against Ebola, and many French aid agencies are doing very important work throughout the world.

Poverty, inequality and racism, wherever they occur, are unacceptable and have no place in our world. The displays of unity and resolve that we have witnessed since last week's terrible tragedies have been heartening, and, as a lasting tribute to the victims and to all victims of global racism, we must redouble our efforts to resolve conflict. The only way in which to do that is through dialogue.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

On behalf of me and my party, the SDLP, I express solidarity with the victims and survivors of the Paris tragedy.

The tragedy that struck the city of Paris, and France as a whole, last week was absolutely awful and unimaginable. Its impact has been felt across Europe and the wider world, and it is compounded by the fact that it was not an act of God or something that was outside our control. It was man-made, planned and absolutely ruthlessly carried out. Seventeen lives were lost in those brutal attacks: 11 people who worked for 'Charlie Hebdo'; four innocent individuals who were shopping in a kosher supermarket; and two police officers.

People in Northern Ireland can share the pain of the people of Paris and France. The people of Northern Ireland stand in solidarity with, and in support of, the victims of this awful tragedy. We here have known our fair share of suffering and, indeed, in the context of free speech and attacks on journalism. Many of our own journalists were attacked over the years, none more so than Martin O'Hagan who was brutally murdered basically for calling it as he saw it. In the context of empathy with people, we can stand shoulder to shoulder and in total solidarity with those who were killed and injured, as well as their friends and families.

Something caught my eye in the reports on this awful situation. I must pay tribute to a young Muslim man in the kosher supermarket who managed to hide a number of possible hostages or, worse still, probable victims. He managed to hide them in the basement, away from those who would kill or maim them. That, to me, presents a true face of the Muslim community and is more valuable and more significant than those who were doing the attacks in the name of the Muslim community.

We hope that the tragic event that happened last week can unite people in France, people across Europe and, indeed, the people of the world in solidarity against terrorism and violence. There have been estimates that more than 1·5 million people united in Paris over the weekend for the march against hatred and for history. That is positive and very hopeful when we see how they all gathered together with great respect and dignity. Indeed, we had our own small demonstration outside the City Hall at the end of last week. That was useful and positive, and I congratulate all those who took part.

The support that has been shown by world leaders, with 44 of them standing together linking arms, is unprecedented. It goes some way to showing support for the victims of this brutal attack. Terrorism has failed, and it will continue to fail. The people of Paris, France and Europe will stand up against it, and we should stand solidly in solidarity with them.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

The people of Northern Ireland very much stand in solidarity with the people of Paris and France. Northern Ireland itself is, of course, very familiar with terrorism. However, we have to bear in mind that terror can come in many different forms and formats and makes unique contributions to those who are affected by it and the societies in which they live.

Of course, the terror in France is, first and foremost, a situation in which people have lost their lives. Many families will be suffering as a consequence of what has happened. However, it is also an attack on a set of values. Indeed, going back to the French Revolution, France is very clearly a society that has been established around a sense of values and the spirit of liberty, equality and fraternity.

We also have to bear in mind that this is not about a clash of two different, conflicting rights, with the right of freedom of speech or freedom of thought on the one hand versus freedom of religion on the other. Those rights very much go hand in hand. Indeed, they are the two sides of the same coin. If you look back through history, you will see that it was very much freedom of religion that generated the notion of freedom of thought and freedom of speech. It is important that we bear that very much in mind as we look to the future.

We are seeing acts of violence, terror and repression being carried out around the world through what is very much a warped sense of what religion means. This is not just an issue that Islam has to confront. It is one that all the major world religions have to come to terms with. We have seen major acts of violence being motivated by that warped sense of religion, whether we are talking about the recent attacks in Sydney in Australia, what is happening with IS in Iraq and Syria, or what is happening in Afghanistan and Nigeria. Other Members have mentioned all of those.

It is also right that we say that what has happened in France, and the attempted justification that has come from some quarters, in no way, shape or form represents the true face of Islam. Islam is fundamentally about peace in its true sense, just as virtually every other major world religion is also fundamentally about peace. At a time when Islam is being wrongly portrayed as narrow and bigoted, it is worth recalling that when Europe was going through the Dark Ages over 1,000 years ago, it was the Islamic societies around the world that kept alive knowledge and the whole values around learning and the creation of knowledge. As Western societies, we are very much indebted to them for their actions in that regard.

What has happened, not just in France but elsewhere around the world, points to the importance of how we address what is happening in terms of the fragmentation of our societies. There are major forces at work that are trying to tear societies apart, and it is incumbent upon us, whether in Northern Ireland or elsewhere, to see how we can bring people together around a common sense of purpose through which, at the same time, we respect and celebrate diversity.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I join in the absolute condemnation of the horrific events that unfolded. Like, I am sure, most people, I was aghast at the bloodthirsty brutality as it unfolded before our very eyes over the weekend. I welcome the most robust response of the security forces in France, their swift and effective action and the dispatching of those who had perpetrated that horror to meet their maker, not to be rewarded but to be condemned for the most flagrant breach of the laws against murder. Certainly, it is a relief that those individuals who were minded to murder as they did in that fashion will never kill again. It behoves all of society to ensure that those who think like them will not have the opportunity to kill again either.

In welcoming the condemnation, I note that it even includes those who, to this very day in Northern Ireland, continue to justify the terrorism of the IRA. There are no good terrorists, whether they have become Members of this House or not. Terrorism was, is and always will be evil, whether it was the murder of Martin O'Hagan or the litany of butchery by the IRA.

I also express my great regret at the attempt by Dr Raied Al-Wazzan of the Belfast Islamic Centre to justify and support Islamic State. I was quite shocked to hear him on Radio Ulster on Friday do exactly that. That is a man who played the injured party and the sympathy card when Pastor McConnell was being hounded in the media, but it now seems that he stands with Islamic State. Such equivocation and such support — as we saw for years from Sinn Féin on terrorism — is the very thing that underwrites and encourages more terrorism, and it, too, is wrong.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

Je suis Charlie. There is no better place to discuss freedom of expression than in a democratically elected Chamber where Members hold the privilege that protects the highest standards of freedom of speech.

To hold a political viewpoint and to express it is to risk offending someone, but none of us have the right to not be offended. Disagreement is an essential part of any democracy, but, of course, those who use violence to assert their own political or proclaimed religious views do not believe in democracy and, indeed, do not respect democracy. Those who committed those murders believed that they were right and that we should all be forced to agree with them. We should all remember that, no matter how strongly we hold a view, whether it is a political view or religious belief, it is just that; it is our view, and it is a personal view. Whilst we absolutely must respect and uphold freedom of religion, we must also protect freedom from religion.

Those of us who believe in democracy and in freedom of speech must stand together to defend it, peacefully and with dignity in upholding those values that serve us all.

Basil McCrea (NI21, Lagan Valley)

I condemn absolutely the actions that took place in Paris. I offer my sympathy to the victims and their families and my solidarity with the people of France. The actions of the last few days offer a number of really significant challenges to some quite powerful forces in our society.

My colleague Mr Agnew has just used, yet again, the phrase "Je suis Charlie". One of the challenges for us is whether that is enough. I suspect that there are not many in the Chamber who will have been aware of 'Charlie Hebdo' before the tragic events took place. One of the issues for us is whether we should leave it to individuals or small groups of people to stand up for our democracy. One of the big challenges that I have is for the media: for it to impose some form of censorship on itself. The mainstream media does not take on those challenges and, therefore, leaves individuals and small entities to face them alone. I think that that is the real challenge for us: not just to issue some words of French, but to speak out when speaking out is necessary.

That brings me to the next challenge that we face, which was alluded to by Mr Allister. Where are the limits to free speech? Is it absolutely acceptable to say anything, or are there any constraints? If there are constraints, who should put those in place?

One of the other things is that democratic chambers should take on the big debates. We should not duck the issues or hide behind some sense of not wanting to offend anybody. Let us have the proper debates in the proper areas.

The final thing that I would like to say, and that I have noticed, is that far too many people try to use events to advance their own particular agendas. The real lessons from the last few days were of a need for genuine tolerance and how it is good to air things in a proper and respectful manner. It is not about seizing those issues and trying to use them for our own advantage. With that, I think that the western democracies have a lot to do to engage their peoples on the matters that really matter to them.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

The world watched in absolute horror as three days of terror unfolded in Paris. It started with the brutal murder of 11 people working in a satirical magazine, then the murder of a policewoman on the streets of Paris and then four hostages being killed in a supermarket on Friday. Even today, there is fear across Paris, and Jewish schools are under armed guard this morning.

It was, plainly and simply, an attack on freedom by extremists who hate freedom, liberty and democracy. It was an attack on all the things that we should hold dear and cherish, such as freedom of speech, freedom of expression and individual liberty. Just as was the case in Northern Ireland, in Israel, Nigeria, New York or anywhere else in the world, there is no justification for terrorist activity or for those who would support such actions.

The response was clearly seen yesterday as three million people took part in unity marches across the world. The Je suis Charlie signs that were clearly seen across the world on social media and world leaders standing side by side to condemn the activities sends a strong message that people stand with the people of France to defend the French principles of liberty, equality and fraternity.

That is the right response. We must stand up for freedom and freedom of speech, even if at times that freedom of speech offends or proves uncomfortable for us. It is the very basis of a free, democratic society.

The response to terrorists, whether Islamic terrorists or those closer to home, is to keep living our lives and fight for the freedom that we cherish. The response has to be support for the police and for the intelligence services, even if that means that some difficult decisions have to be taken closer to home, and we have to get the National Crime Agency (NCA) operating here in Northern Ireland. We have to support the intelligence services, which will have targeted surveillance against suspected terrorists in order to keep us safe, but we must never forsake our freedom or our liberty, even when under attack.

Assembly Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Before we commence the election of a Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order 4(2), I invite Mr Samuel Gardiner to take the Chair as Acting Speaker and preside over the election.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gardiner) in the Chair.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Before we commence, I remind Members that the election of the Speaker will be conducted using the procedures set out in Standing Order 4. In accordance with Standing Order 4(2), I have taken the Chair as Acting Speaker and will preside over the election.

I will begin by asking for nominations. Any Member may rise to propose that another Member is elected as Speaker. I will then ask for the proposal to be seconded by another Member, as required by Standing Order 14. If that occurs, I will then verify that the Member so nominated is willing to accept the nomination. There will not be an opportunity for speeches at this stage. I will then ask for further proposals and follow the same procedure for each. When it appears that there are no further proposals, I will make it clear that the time for proposals has passed.

If Members indicate that they wish to speak, a debate relevant to the election may then take place in which no Member may speak more than once. At the conclusion of the debate, or the conclusion of the nominations if there are no requests to speak, I will put the Question that the Member first proposed shall be Speaker of the Assembly. The vote can only be carried on a cross-community basis. If the proposal is not carried, I will put the Question in relation to the next nominee and so on until all nominations are exhausted. If that is clear, we will proceed.

Do I have any proposals for the office of Speaker of the Assembly?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat. Acting Speaker, I am honoured to nominate my friend and colleague Mitchel McLaughlin for the position of Speaker.

Mitchel and his wife, Mary-Lou, and I have been friends for 40 years, and I know well that the breadth of his abilities, his dedication —

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Sorry. Could I draw your attention to the fact that it is just a nomination, not a speech at this stage?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am honoured to nominate Mitchel McLaughlin as Speaker.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you very much.

Could I have a seconder?

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Aontaím leis sin. I second that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Are there any other nominations?

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I wish to nominate John Dallat.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Mr John Dallat has been proposed.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I second that.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Are there any other nominations?

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I nominate Roy Beggs.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I second the nomination.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Is Mr Mitchel McLaughlin prepared to serve if elected?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I am.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Is Mr John Dallat prepared to serve if elected?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Of course.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Is Mr Roy Beggs prepared to serve if elected?

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I am.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Are there any other nominations?

The time for proposals has expired.

A number of Members have indicated that they wish to speak. I remind Members that they may speak only once in the debate and that the Business Committee has agreed to allow each Member wishing to speak up to three minutes. I call Mr Martin McGuinness on this occasion.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I was about to say —

[Laughter.]

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

You can on this occasion.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Mitchel and his wife, Mary-Lou, and I have been friends for 40 years. I know well the breadth of Mitchel's abilities, dedication and thoughtfulness of approach to political life. I believe him to be well suited to fulfil the onerous responsibility of being Speaker of this Assembly and what that entails.

As a Derryman taking over from William Hay, a Londonderryman, this represents yet another symbolic, important step towards equality and inclusiveness. I pay tribute to William for the admirable way he represented this House and how fair and impartial his judgements were. I wish William well. I believe that Mitchel McLaughlin will, as William did, win the respect and admiration of the whole House. I have no hesitation whatsoever in nominating him as the new Speaker.

Peter Robinson (DUP, Belfast East)

I want to make clear first of all that there is no legal or constitutional requirement for the Speaker to come from the Foyle constituency, although I am sure that there is a recognition that there must be something special in the air down there to have the proposals coming from that constituency.

I remind the House that, when we previously looked at this issue in September, I pointed out on behalf of my colleagues that an agreement had been entered into. Let us remember, this House will not have a Speaker unless there is an agreement, particularly between the two main parties, and therefore would not operate and function properly without it. We indicated that we would honour the agreement to have a Sinn Féin nominee in that position when Sinn Féin had agreed on the issue of welfare reform. I am pleased to say, and to see, that that has now happened. I therefore intend to honour that agreement and to give support to Mitchel McLaughlin.

I say only one thing to him and to the House. An example has been set by the outgoing Speaker, William Hay, who is soon to become a Lord. I think that everyone recognises that William, in the exercise of his duty, cut his connection from party politics. That is essential, and I make it clear: there should be no party instructions to a Speaker. The Speaker must act independently in that office, and I trust that that will happen.

Alasdair McDonnell (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I too pay tribute to the former Speaker, Willie Hay, for the tremendous job he did. He was fair, impartial, dignified and inclusive. He certainly took the role of Speaker and placed it outside party politics and in an independent space.

On the 13 October last, I was privileged to speak on the nomination of John Dallat as Speaker of the Assembly. It was very clear then — and I am very clear now — that John is an outstanding choice for Speaker. That is why we have put his name forward. As a Deputy Speaker, he has given this Assembly and its Members exemplary service over the past seven years, showing leadership, integrity, impartiality and good judgement at all times.

John has further shown his ability and capacity to take on the role of Speaker as and when required. In October, I pointed out — it is worth repeating now — that John Dallat's long and dedicated service to the Assembly has given him wide and comprehensive experience of all the procedural and corporate functions of that office. At that time, I was disappointed that other parties allowed narrow party political self-interest to stand in the way of John's election. It seems that little has changed. It appears that the DUP and Sinn Féin have re-concocted their secret arrangements. This secret arrangement is designed to exclude the rest of us in the Assembly. In the light of those side deals and secret deals, and at a time when public confidence in the Assembly is at an all-time low, it is even more crucial to have someone of the calibre of John Dallat as Speaker. It is time that we moved to an open and transparent system of government here without back-door or side deals designed to shut out full inclusion and full democracy.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

As we conduct the first bit of business of 2015, I am sure that many Members have aspirations — maybe even resolutions — for the next 12 months. Mine would certainly be that we move towards more normal politics. In fairness, some strides were taken in that regard at the tail end of 2014 during the Stormont House talks, including balancing our Budget and getting that right, opposition, and effective and efficient government being added to the inclusion that was at the heart of the 1998 deal. Surely, however, normal politics in a matter like this would be simply selecting the best man or woman for the job, and yet we see to our left, from the largest single party, not a single candidate considered worthy of consideration by the House.

So, despite the Secretary of State's assurances that there were no side deals at Stormont House, I commend the First Minister for admitting that the DUP's support for Mitchel McLaughlin was a side deal. I am sorry that it does not feel that it has anybody worthy of consideration. The Ulster Unionist Party does: we consider Roy Beggs —

[Interruption.]

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

Order, please.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

— to be a more than capable candidate. He was first elected to this Chamber in 1998, and he has defended his seat at every Assembly election since. So, there is the first quality: loyalty. There is no doubt that the Speaker has to demonstrate a number of values, loyalty being one, as is a good temperament, attention to detail — that is absolutely critical in the role — and a sense of fairness and fair play, all of which Roy Beggs demonstrates abundantly.

Being Speaker, of course, is not just about presiding over the business of the Chamber or ensuring that the business of the Assembly is conducted smoothly; the Speaker is also the principal interface with civic society. Roy Beggs has nothing to prove in that regard. I have no difficulty — indeed, I have great pleasure — in commending and recommending Roy Beggs to the House.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I suspect, Mr Acting Speaker, that, last autumn, you did not imagine that you would have to do the job twice, but I suppose that today is probably a case of better late than never.

I join others in paying tribute to William Hay and the role that he performed as Speaker. He did at least break the apparent constitutional requirement that the Speaker of the House be a member of the Alliance Party, so he must be thanked for that, as well as for his work whilst in the Speaker's Chair. There is also a sad and interesting parallel: when Willie Hay was proposed, he was proposed as Speaker on a cross-community basis. We still have not reached that point today.

When we last debated the issue of the Speaker, I made it very clear that the Alliance Party would support Mitchel McLaughlin on two grounds. First, when agreements are made, they should be honoured. It should not have required the Sinn Féin rollover on welfare reform to get the agreement on who should be Speaker of the House honoured. Secondly, Mitchel McLaughlin, as Principal Deputy Speaker, has acted as impartially as any who have been Deputy Speakers and has shown that he was preparing himself to be an impartial Speaker in the same way as William Hay was and in the same way as John Alderdice and Eileen Bell were in previous Assemblies. On that basis, he should be supported for Speaker today, not out of any disrespect for John Dallat or Roy Beggs — there is no suggestion that they are not fit to do the job — but because an agreement was reached, and he has been acting as Principal Deputy Speaker. That should carry through.

I also believe that, if the House is to elect a Sinn Féin Speaker today, it will make a very significant statement about people who have been at times reticent about fully buying into the institutions of the Assembly. That is a fundamental, significant and important point that should not be lost on the wider community. With that, I have great pleasure in endorsing the Member for South Antrim as Speaker of the House.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I am very pleased to second my party's leader's proposal of Mr John Dallat as Speaker. John Dallat has many years of political experience, and I think that he is the longest serving member of the Speaker's Office. He has shown in the role of Deputy Speaker his impartiality and his ability to act above party politics.

As the First Minister said, we are here today with the proposal for Mitchel McLaughlin as a consequence of an agreement between the two main parties. It would do Members well to remember that the House owes its existence to both the endorsement and the agreement of the people of this island for power-sharing and partnership; not a power carve-up between the two largest parties. We in the SDLP remember well that, just a few months ago, Sinn Féin blocked the first nationalist nomination, of John Dallat, as Speaker. Sinn Féin Members had an opportunity to speak and to vote for a nationalist Speaker, and they voted, ashamedly, against it. Unlike Sinn Féin, we hold high principles and high values, and the SDLP continues to rail against the power carve-up between the two main parties. So, today, we will support Mr Dallat with pride.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

First, the SDLP believes that the three candidates, Mr Beggs, Mr Dallat and Mr McLaughlin, all have the capacity and could all have the confidence of the House when it comes to the role of Speaker. However, I want to repeat two comments that I made about our candidate, Mr Dallat, when this matter came before the House last autumn. The Hansard record confirms that I said:

"The election of the Speaker today can be a watershed moment. We should measure the next 10 minutes against whether or not it is a watershed moment for the Assembly and for politics. A number of candidates have been nominated, all of whom have their particular values and virtues, but, in the view of the SDLP, more than any other candidate, the election of John Dallat as Speaker would represent that watershed moment. The election of John Dallat would be a renewal of integrity and a recognition of a good public servant." — [Official Report, Vol 98, No 3, p13, col 1].

I then added:

For too long, issue after issue in the Assembly and in Northern Ireland has been reduced to narrow deals. It has been about the division of spoils rather than the full public interest. John Dallat as Speaker would represent something and someone different. — [Official Report, Vol 98, No 3, p13, col 2].

In the view of our party, those comments made four months ago are as valid today as they were then. On the latter point, it will be curious to see, over the next number of days, whether politics is again reduced to a division of spoils when it comes to the nomination of a Principal Deputy Speaker. I wait to hear the voices across the Chamber in response to that question.

On the last occasion, the SDLP voted for Mitchel McLaughlin as Speaker, and Hansard records 14 SDLP votes for Mr McLaughlin and 24 votes from Sinn Féin. However, Hansard then records that, under the label "nationalist", 24 people voted against a nationalist Speaker of the House. Mr Boylan voted no. Mr Kelly voted no. Mr McElduff voted no. Ms Ní Chuilín voted no. Mr O'Dowd voted no.

Twenty four nationalists, nationalist by their own declaration in the Members' interests in the House, voted down the first nationalist Speaker of the House. When we come to exercise our vote, we will not follow that narrow, selective, partial, limited and backward example. Whilst we support John Dallat, we will not oppose Mr McLaughlin.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Mr Acting Speaker, what we are seeing today, and what we will see in a few minutes, is the first down payment by the DUP to Sinn Féin arising from the Stormont House Agreement: the delivery of this side deal.

Three months ago, Mitchel McLaughlin was unelectable. As far as I am concerned, he is still unelectable, because he is still the same Mitchel McLaughlin, who, with great notoriety, told the general listening public that that most cruel of crimes, the kidnapping, murder and secret burial of Jean McConville, was not a crime. Yet there are some in the House who think that someone of that mentality should be made Speaker of the House. The shame is, of course, that those unretracted remarks will mark the future Speaker of the House as someone who is prepared to take that stance and who has been put in that position by many of those who say that they would abhor such comments.

Of course, the position he aspires to — the Chair, as it were, that he wants to sit on — was once occupied by Sir Norman Stronge for more than two decades. What happened to Sir Norman Stronge? He was done to death most cruelly — shot and incinerated by an IRA attack on his home. One asks Mr McLaughlin this: was that a crime? It seems that some who are going to vote for him neither know nor care whether he thinks that was a crime. We know what his party president thinks of the murder of a previous Speaker of the House, for he is on record as saying:

"The only complaint I have heard from Nationalists or anti-Unionists is that he was not shot 40 years ago."

Someone of that ilk, who thinks that the murder of Jean McConville was not a crime, now aspires to hold the position of Speaker courtesy of the votes from the DUP Benches. There are some in the DUP who, in the past, have gone for a walk rather than vote for such matters. Today I suspect that they are going to walk through the Lobbies. Well, next time they walk past the memorial to Sir Norman Stronge, may they hang their heads in shame.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

The position of Speaker is a very important one, and I think that some factual accuracy should be put on the record. If every unionist MLA in the Chamber today were to vote for the only unionist candidate in the field, he would still not be elected.

In the past, when Sinn Féin have made wrong decisions and carried out wrong actions as part of the republican movement, we in this party have attacked and condemned them, and rightly so. That was, is and remains our stance. We did it consistently when others walked away, and we will do it today and in the future. When they did the right thing, we acknowledged that they had done the right thing.

For example, in support for the police and the rule of law, we acknowledged that, after many years of denying and usurping that, at long last they had done the right thing. But then, when they reneged on that, with things such as the murder parade in Castlederg, we told them that they were wrong, condemned them and said that there would be repercussions. Again, on welfare reform, when we told them that we had an agreement in private that they would implement welfare reform and they reneged on it, we said that there would be repercussions. Thankfully, they have now moved from that position: from saying that they would not implement welfare reform, they are now implementing it. So, again, we acknowledge when they do the right thing, and we condemn them when they do the wrong thing. Today, we acknowledge in word and in deed when they have done the right thing.

It is important that people be quoted accurately in this Chamber today and in the future. For example, just over a year ago when the Education Minister in this Chamber inaccurately quoted me about implementing power sharing, I accurately rectified the matter, and I am happy to do so again today. When Gerry Adams, on his departure from this Chamber, he, again, inaccurately referred to some comments that I allegedly had made, and I had to rectify the position there again.

This party stands for progress; we stand to try to ensure that we will make progress now and in the future. If Sinn Féin or the incoming Speaker, if he is elected, were to step out of line, we would condemn them. Of course, we now wait to see if all the necessary tests between now and the next Assembly election are passed.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

The role of Speaker of this House and, indeed, in any parliamentary system, is hugely important. I hope that this is the last occasion on which we elect our Speaker in this way. As many in this Chamber will know, I would like to see it change. I would like it to be a gift of this House and this Assembly rather than the result of a deal done nearly eight years ago. I would like to see that separation. I think that the First Minister's point about Speaker Hay leaving his party affiliation is important, and it is important that it happens with whoever is elected Speaker today.

It is also important, and it is how I would like to change it, that they leave their constituency and all the issues that they would have to deal with, as that lifts a Speaker truly out of everyday party and constituency politics, such as writing about planning. That is why changing the way and recognising that separation and the role of the Speaker is hugely important.

The Speaker should be the champion for the Back Benches and for the work that this Assembly does in making sure that Ministers and the Executive branch of Government are held to account. That is why the role is so important, and it is why I hope that this is the last occasion on which we elect a Speaker in such a way. I agree with colleagues who said that they would have no great difficulty in voting for any of the three candidates on offer today, as I voted for them on the last occasion that we did this.

I feel that Mitchel McLaughlin, as Principal Deputy Speaker, has shown many of the characteristics that I want to see in a Speaker, including being impartial in carrying out his duties, and I hope that he will continue to do that if elected today. I just hope that, at the end of today, we end up with a Speaker. It is important that if Mr McLaughlin is elected, it signals the full buy-in of Sinn Féin into this institution and into this Assembly. It is an important point to acknowledge and to hope for. On that note, I support Mitchel McLaughlin's nomination for Speaker.

Question put. The Assembly divided:

Ayes 72; Noes 12

AYES

NATIONALIST:

Mr Boylan, Ms Boyle, Mr Brady, Ms Fearon, Mr Flanagan, Mr Hazzard, Mr G Kelly, Mr Lynch, Mr McAleer, Mr F McCann, Ms J McCann, Mr McCartney, Ms McCorley, Mr McElduff, Ms McGahan, Mr M McGuinness, Mr McKay, Ms Maeve McLaughlin, Mr McMullan, Mr Maskey, Mr Milne, Ms Ní Chuilín, Mr Ó hOisín, Mr Ó Muilleoir, Mr O'Dowd, Mrs O'Neill, Ms Ruane, Mr Sheehan

UNIONIST:

Mr Bell, Ms P Bradley, Mr Buchanan, Mrs Cameron, Mr Campbell, Mr Clarke, Mr Douglas, Mr Dunne, Mr Easton, Mrs Foster, Mr Frew, Mr Girvan, Mr Givan, Mrs Hale, Mr Hamilton, Mr Hilditch, Mr Humphrey, Mr Irwin, Mr McCallister, Mr McCausland, Mr B McCrea, Mr I McCrea, Mr D McIlveen, Miss M McIlveen, Mr McQuillan, Lord Morrow, Mr Newton, Mr G Robinson, Mr P Robinson, Mr Ross, Mr Spratt, Mr Storey, Ms Sugden, Mr Weir, Mr Wells, Mr Wilson

OTHER:

Mrs Cochrane, Mr Dickson, Dr Farry, Mr Ford, Ms Lo, Mr Lunn, Mr Lyttle, Mr McCarthy

Tellers for the Ayes: Mr McCartney, Ms Ruane

NOES

UNIONIST:

Mr Allister, Mr Beggs, Mr Cree, Mrs Dobson, Mr Elliott, Mr Hussey, Mr Kennedy, Mr Kinahan, Mr McGimpsey, Mr Nesbitt, Mrs Overend, Mr Swann

Tellers for the Ayes: Mrs Dobson, Mrs Overend

Total Votes84Total Ayes72[85.7%]Nationalist Votes28Nationalist Ayes28[100.0%]Unionist Votes48Unionist Ayes36[75.0%]Other Votes8Other Ayes8[100.0%]

Question accordingly agreed to. Resolved (with cross-community support):

That Mr Mitchel McLaughlin be Speaker of this Assembly.

Samuel Gardiner (UUP, Upper Bann)

I formally declare that Mr Michael McLaughlin —

[Laughter.]

— Mitchel McLaughlin has been elected as Speaker of the House. You have been very patient; you can come to the top of the House.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Order. Before we move on with the other business, I would like to say few words. First, I thank Mr Sam Gardiner for serving the House by presiding over the election of the Speaker today, as well as at the dress rehearsal in October. I also want to express my sincere appreciation to the two Deputy Speakers, Roy Beggs and John Dallat, for the excellent working relationship that we have had, particularly in recent months. The situation we found ourselves in had the potential to be a very difficult one, but we all approached it from the perspective of seeking agreement in the best interests of the House and its procedures, and I think that that will serve us well in the time ahead.

Since October, we have all gained a better understanding of the issues and the pressures that the Speaker has to manage. That insight has served only to strengthen my admiration for the service that Speaker Hay gave to the Assembly. It was regrettable that Speaker Hay did not have the opportunity to be here in person when he stepped down from the Chair. I know that Members will wish him well now that his health has improved and as he prepares to take his seat in the House of Lords. I hope to have an early opportunity to invite Speaker Hay back to mark his major contribution to the Assembly, and I know that that will be endorsed by the Assembly.

Finally, I want to thank Members for their support today. I say to all Members, those who supported me and those who did not, that I am conscious that I am here to uphold the impartiality and independence of the office and the interests of the House on behalf of all of you. I know that there will be times when I, as Speaker, will have to make judgments that will not please everyone, but I am focused on that and on what I might be able to do to help increase understanding and agreement inside and outside the Chamber. We are, I believe, in a more positive political environment now than we have been for a few years, and we have much work to do. Like any debating chamber, the Assembly symbolises the rights of Members to discuss, to agree or to disagree or to decide to or to decide not to compromise. I look forward to the cooperation of all Members to exercise those rights constructively and to show collectively what this place can achieve on behalf of all our constituents.

The next item of business is a motion —

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I request, Mr Speaker, that you might review the Hansard record, in particular the comments made by Mr Allister in relation to comments made by a third party, not in or a Member of the Chamber, in respect of the attacks in Paris and France over the past number of days. I ask that you review the Hansard report and determine whether those comments were appropriate.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I will review Hansard, and I will seek the advice and counsel that is available to me as Speaker to see whether an issue of such did arise.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Is it further to that point of order or is it a new point of order?

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

It is further to it in one sense, but it —

[Inaudible.]

— a new point of order.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Point of order.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a matter perhaps more relevant, given the moment, would it be in order to ask whether the current Speaker of the House regards the murder of a predecessor as a crime?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

That is not a point of order, but let me take an early opportunity to mark the cards of all Members, including you: do not abuse the procedures or I will respond appropriately.

Committee Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The next item of business is a motion from the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the draft Budget 2015-16. The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to four hours for the debate. The proposer will have 15 minutes to propose the motion and 15 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have seven minutes.

Those who are departing the Chamber should do so quietly.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

I beg to move

That this Assembly takes note of the draft Budget 2015-16 announced on Monday 3 November 2014 by the Minister of Finance and Personnel.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Can I be the first to congratulate you on the appointment that you have received? It is obviously a first for the House. It is the first time that Derry has won something twice in a row. Barry told me to say that, and no one deserves it more, Mr Speaker. I have served with you on the Finance Committee in recent years, and the respect in which you are held by all parties in the House is second to none. I trust that you will do a fantastic job in the time ahead, following in the footsteps of Mr Willie Hay, who I have to say — I speak on behalf of party colleagues as well — always served fairly and justly in any of his dealings with the Assembly.

The Committee tabled this motion to provide the Assembly with the opportunity to debate the Executive's draft Budget 2015-16. The coordinated report on this draft Budget examined issues at a cross-cutting and departmental level and was informed by the responses from each of the applicable Assembly Committees and by written evidence from representatives of the business and voluntary sectors, economists and the trade unions. The intention is that the report and today's contributions will inform the Executive's considerations and help influence the shape of the final Budget outcome.

At the outset, I point out the shortcomings of the Budget process in its truncated nature and the fact that there has been considerably less scope than normal for input by the Assembly and wider public. Committees experienced difficulties with the time available and a lack of information from respective Departments. The coordinated report has highlighted how the current process has fallen short in good practice and again stressed the need to put in place the memorandum of understanding between the Assembly and the Executive to ensure that the shortcomings are addressed and that future Budget processes meet the needs of the legislature and Government.

We must also recognise that, on this occasion, particular difficulties and challenges gave rise to the delays and time pressures. The Committee has been mindful of the extraordinary Budget challenges that the Executive are facing. A Budget was drafted in the context of unprecedented public expenditure reductions. These reductions are, of course, set against the backdrop of a British Government who are absolutely unyielding in their adherence to a strict austerity policy. Added to that, we face additional local difficulties, including increasing pressure on the health budget, a slower rate of economic growth and recovery than other jurisdictions and inherited burdens on public expenditure arising from the legacy of the conflict, which are distinctive and additional to those faced by other regions.

Last year, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) forecast that, overall, resource departmental expenditure limits (DEL) would decrease by a further 13% in real terms by 2018-19. In emphasising the tough choices ahead, the Minister quoted Nelson Mandela, who once stated:

"May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears."

I can think of other words from Madiba that are also fitting in this context, when he reflected:

"after climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb."

Clearly, there are immense budgetary challenges ahead. There will be a responsibility on all of us, across the House, to work constructively and collectively to climb those hills together in the interests of all the people we represent.

In that regard, I welcome the measures contained in the financial package delivered as part of the Stormont House Agreement, providing spending power of almost £2 billion. As well as additional capital borrowing provision, this will include new and additional funding, flexibilities to protect resource spending and measures that could also help to generate substantial year-on-year savings.

It was clear that more information and clarity is required on key issues. Many queries raised by Assembly Committees with their respective Departments remain unanswered. In the budget allocations for different Departments, for example, a number of aspects were not clear, including the basis on which bids were prioritised and the rationale for proposed departmental allocations; the proportion of budget allocations contractually or legally committed; the proportion of allocations available for ministerial prioritisation or discretion; and the criteria to be used to determine which services or programmes will be cut or scaled back. Quite clearly, there are a number of lessons that need to be learned from the process that we have just gone through.

Another key area we looked at is how the Budget will impact on the wider economy. This includes the impact on the public sector and the impact on university and further education and training places. As regards the public-sector workforce restructuring plan, a number of Committees highlighted a lack of detail on the shape, scale, timing or impact of the proposed restructuring. Various Committees and stakeholder groups singled out specifically the area of university and further education places for concern as well. The Committee has made specific recommendations to ensure that the risks in this regard are addressed.

A further key issue on which the Committee sought clarity was in relation to the £133·2 million provision for increased employer contributions in respect of public-sector pension schemes. It was not clear why this huge pressure was not flagged up sooner, nor was there confidence as to the accuracy of estimates used in the calculation. The Committee has called on the Department and the Executive to provide complete information on all options for raising additional revenue through charges and further devolved taxes and duties. This should provide transparency on projected costs, benefits, risks and impacts with a view to facilitating a fully informed and mature public debate on how best to help meet the further budgetary challenges in coming years.

Given the future requirement for further savings and the associated need to focus on priorities, it is vital that Departments apply the lessons from the last two spending review periods as highlighted in the Committee's report. In particular, there is a need to avoid the salami-slicing approach to savings. Moreover, the Committee has identified a fundamental weakness in our system of budgetary control and oversight, with DFP's role having changed following devolution:

"from one of challenge to one of ... co-ordination".

Taking account of the particular governmental structures in the North, there remains a need for a robust external advisory and challenge function to be exercised within and across all Departments in respect of budgetary savings and efficiencies. It is likely that, if this weakness is to be addressed, the Executive will need to make separate arrangements for:

"an external 'panel of experts' or commission".

This would report directly to the Executive, offering an independent critique of planned savings and ongoing implementation. Such an expert panel would require access to all the necessary information and would provide a level of assurance to the Assembly and the wider public that Departments are maximising savings while protecting front-line services.

Other issues on which the Committee has sought assurance include the need for a greater focus on preventative spending; the need to recognise the limitations to the in-year monitoring process in the current context of financial constraint and to establish a formal Budget review mechanism to operate on an annual basis, looking ahead at the subsequent financial year as a complement to multi-year planning; and, finally, the need for an agreed approach to promoting uptake of financial transactions capital in respective Departments.

I will now turn briefly to the Department of Finance and Personnel's individual budget position. Regrettably, the Department failed to lead by example or to set a standard for others to follow in the quality of its consultation paper.

Instead, the Department's paper to the Committee amounted to what can only be described as a holding response with little in the way of specifics or substantive information on savings or revenue proposals. The dearth of information presented a barrier to meaningful consultation and impeded the Committee in exercising its statutory advisory function. The Committee has endeavoured to examine a wide range of issues at a strategic and departmental level. Its recommendations are offered as a constructive contribution to inform the considerations of the Executive in finalising the Budget.

I will make a few brief comments from a party perspective, a Cheann Comhairle. Obviously, this is not a Sinn Féin Budget — if it were, it would be completely different — but at its heart is a Budget that we are forced to live with as a result of our lack of ability to influence our own economic destiny.

Whatever the outcome of the elections in May, Westminster will still impose austerity on us from above, regardless of the amalgamation of parties that comes through over there. The Tories have made it quite clear that they would send us back to the 1930s to introduce another Great Depression on our schools, hospitals and public sector workers.

The parties to my right, I am sure, would say, "Take your tonic. Sure Westminster is good for you". Quite clearly, it is not. The figures for economic growth and job creation show that we are quite clearly lagging behind the rest of this island and Britain, where there are greater levels of growth. That is for many reasons, one of which is partition and another is the reduction in public spending, which is more to do with ideology in Westminster than macroeconomics and building prosperity across society.

Sinn Féin is the party of education. We led the way in securing a £500 million commitment to the schools capital build, when others gave up on securing anything more from the British Government. In this negotiation, we held out. We got commitments that other parties had given up on, and that will stand us in good stead. However, schools here need more. The Department of Education is the most important Department for economic growth, because it represents the future. If we do not invest in our future, how can we be expected to improve on it?

The Committee for Finance and Personnel carried out an inquiry into flexible working. I believe that it has a huge potential to realise savings and to change people's lives. I am thinking about people who commute from Ballycastle, Derry and Enniskillen into Belfast five or six days a week. Departments need to embrace the Committee report, rather than just saying that they will note it and then stick it on a shelf with other reports. If senior civil servants in some Departments embraced the report, it could radically change the way in which people work and would, according to the report recommendations, lead to greater productivity, lower sickness levels and allow for more public finances to go towards front-line services. Given that we are possibly heading into another four years of austerity, we absolutely need to look at each and every opportunity to realise savings and to put money towards front-line services, the Fire Service, the health service and education. There are gaps, and we need to fill them.

More so than ever, other parties need to be open to having the great debate about fiscal powers. At the moment, we have a piecemeal approach. We have looked at corporation tax and air passenger duty (APD). We need to have a debate about fiscal powers in their entirety and how we can change the rates and have those powers transferred. Quite clearly, given the outcome in economic growth and job creation, if it is broke, we need to fix it. As long as the levers of financial power remain with Westminster, things will not change. We need a full debate about the powers that we want to be transferred.

My party's position is that we want all powers to be transferred, but other parties need to be more open and less ideological about that. I give credit where credit is due: some parties have moved more in that direction. However, the urgency is there now. The Tories, if they get in at Westminster, will lambaste us with another four years of austerity and send us back to the 1930s. If that is to be the case, we need to have a serious debate about taking those powers for ourselves and looking at what is happening in Scotland and saying, "Well, you have a choice: you can decide things for yourselves, or you can let the Tories visit upon us rack and ruin in the public service, the health service, in education and so on and so forth."

I welcome the debate and look forward to the contributions from other Members, but we are still in very difficult economic times, and, to find an economic solution to our economic problems, we need to have economic levers.

Paul Girvan (DUP, South Antrim)

From a Committee point of view, there has been a lot of good work undertaken on many aspects associated with the process and the way that we move ahead. Unfortunately, one of the areas that I have major problems with is monitoring rounds. Departments have depended greatly on monitoring rounds to deliver some of their key functions, and I will use the Department for Regional Development as an example. Everyone knows that fixing potholes and street lights are key functions of that Department, but, unfortunately, it decided to use monitoring rounds to fund those key parts of its job. As a consequence, when it has not received adequate money through monitoring rounds, it has decided to arbitrarily cut delivery of priority functions. The issue is how people have identified what are priorities and what are not priorities, and that is another area that has caused concern.

I appreciate that we are going into very tough times. There has been a major cut to our block grant over the last four years, and we are potentially running into another area of cuts. Effectively, we are seeing a reduction in real terms of 1·6% — in the region of £200 million — in our 2015-16 Budget. That does not take into account some of the areas that were dealt with in the Stormont House Agreement and additional funds that will be brought forward.

I appreciate that a draft Budget was put forward. Some of that will change during the next number of weeks as we work our way through things, but it is not easy to say where the problem lies. A lot of people want to say that the problem lies with London. I do not necessarily agree that that is where the total problem lies. We have problems associated with how we break budgets down at a local level, and sometimes harsh decisions have to be made.

I appreciate that there are major pressures on our resource DEL, and, as a consequence, some very hard decisions will have to be made. Unfortunately, sometimes we are not necessarily that good at stepping up to the mark and making those decisions, but we have to demonstrate our ability to do so. That is vital.

The issue is what should be agreed as priorities. Unfortunately, one Minister might have a priority for his Department and not necessarily agree with what the civil servants in that Department see as the priority. As a consequence, everybody has a different opinion.

We have, I believe, demonstrated that the issue is how the customer is affected. At the end of the day, the front-line customers are the ones who will feel the effects on delivery of any cuts that are made. Therefore, if something will affect how the general public feel about a service, we should not be making cuts in areas that will have a great impact.

There are those in the Civil Service who have decided, and maybe Ministers have been allowing this to happen, to make cuts that are seen as painful to put forward a message. That does not necessarily deliver anything good for the Chamber or the public.

I appreciate that there are areas that, we believe, should be ring-fenced and protected. I identified health and education, and I appreciate that job creation and how things go forward in DEL, in conjunction with DETI, are also areas that we should look at to ensure that we grow our economy and keep up.

Some of the areas associated with the financial package that has been produced in the last few days are on savings that can be brought forward and, in fact, on capital borrowings that can be put in place to help to fund a voluntary exit scheme. A voluntary exit scheme of somewhere in the region of, I think, £700 million has been identified as a possibility for that area. On the back of that, there is an opportunity for some of that resource, which would have been used over the next number of years, to work its way back into delivery.

I appreciate that the Civil Service is really for delivering services to the public; it is not an employment agency. The message needs to go out that we need to justify every job in the Civil Service and ensure that there is delivery from those jobs and that we have not created a bureaucratic monster and a somewhat bigger problem. I appreciate that we have a vastly inflated Civil Service in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, our private sector has suffered to a great degree. In moving forward, we should focus on job creation and on some of the tools that we intend to use and the opportunities that are now there for us, primarily with corporation tax and the possibility of having the powers to vary our tax-raising ability in that. That is another tool that could be used to attract inward investment, and it is something that we need to look at.

People have said that they want to do all sorts of wonderful things, but they have never given us any examples of where the money to deliver those wonderful projects will come from. We do not have a bottomless pit. We achieved what I think is a reasonably good financial package in the Stormont House Agreement. Some people say that there is no new money, but there is a significant amount of new money to be brought forward over the next number of years. I appreciate that there is also the opportunity to use some of that money to deliver savings.

I appreciate and support the work that has been done in the Committee.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

First of all, I congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on becoming Speaker of the House.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion, which is long overdue. It asks that the Assembly take note of the draft Budget presented to us last November. It is a draft Budget that, in my opinion, was poorly conceived and fails to protect the interests of the people of Northern Ireland. Its creation was never open or transparent, and its existence serves only the implementation of savage Tory cuts by the haphazard alliance of the DUP and Sinn Féin.

It is not simply the parties outside the Sinn Féin/DUP axis whose criticisms of the Budget have been dismissed. An independent report by PricewaterhouseCoopers derided it as lacking "any worthwhile insight" and accused it of misunderstanding "the complexities of public expenditure". Sinn Féin preaches anti-austerity in the South while endorsing deep cuts in the North. It branded it the best Budget possible before the consultation process had even got under way. It is only fair for me to commend the SDLP's Minister, Mark Durkan, for his outright opposition to the draft Budget. Minister Durkan and the SDLP recognise that the draft Budget is an anti-worker Budget, with the use of pay freezes and redundancies ensuring an adverse effect on jobs. The draft Budget neglects the working poor, the unemployed and young people. It does nothing to bridge the regional divide between east and west, failing to recognise that a thriving and prosperous economy is unsustainable while regional imbalance persists.

Any worthwhile budget prioritises economic development and job creation, but this Budget slashes jobs in the public sector. In fact, the Budget relies heavily on that job reduction, but there is no economic plan to create private-sector jobs. That is an extremely short-term solution that disregards the even greater long-term problems that high unemployment will cause for our economy and society. That is particularly pertinent in the north-west, where a high proportion of people are employed in the public sector.

I recognise that the Budget has not been as savage in my area of responsibility of agriculture as it has been in others, but it has still left the sector wanting. There are several areas in the Department that could make more savings, reduce wastage and perform in a more efficient manner overall. I welcome the proposal to move DARD headquarters out of Belfast but recognise that a cost analysis is crucial. That is still lacking. As it stands, there are only approximate costs for the proposal. The proposal also lacks proper financial and human resource analysis.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I am grateful to the Member for giving way on that important topic. Like me, he is a member of the Agriculture Committee, and we have expressed concerns on a number of occasions about the wisdom of spending so much when money is scarce. Will the Member agree that even the farmers are a bit concerned about what is happening? I am a Member for Strangford, and a lot of my constituents are employed in Dundonald House, and they will certainly not be going to Ballykelly.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The Member will have an extra minute.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Member for that. I believe that the decentralisation of senior civil servant jobs is crucial. It is important in balancing regional development going forward. However, I note what Mr McCarthy said.

The proposal also lacks proper financial and human resource analysis; that is its biggest shortcoming. The SDLP and I require a more detailed costing and business case before any move is finalised and implemented.

The Budget proposes a voluntary exit programme, seeking a reduction of 300 staff in DARD, and aims to save an estimated £5·6 million in the ensuing year if implemented. It is critical that any redundancy scheme be completed on a voluntary basis and that the reduction of jobs be divided up between spending areas across the Department. I also believe that a skills analysis is vital to see exactly how staff reductions would be carried out and how they would impact on the services provided by DARD. The front-line services to the farming community are crucial.

The SDLP has serious concerns about the impact on such services, as that reduction in staff is timetabled to happen in the middle of the budget year. The resulting reduction may cause the loss of valuable and irreplaceable skills. We are concerned that proposed staff reductions may cause the Department to lean and depend on higher-costing consultants, which would ultimately defeat the point of using staff reductions to save money. We accept that administration costs need to be reduced but not at the expense of vital job roles in the Department. The draft Budget needs to present more information on how reductions in staff and the loss of skills and expertise will affect front-line services.

DARD is commissioning a new IT system. However, the history of government commissioning IT systems in Northern Ireland is not good. We believe that the current computer system proposals, which earmark £84 million for the new Northern Ireland food animal information system (NIFAIS) IT system, may be very costly. The result of total capital, which is £25·8 million, and the resource costs of £28·3 million spread over 10 years leads me to question whether the project is particularly necessary in our current economic climate and whether more cost-effective schemes should be looked at. Again, the Committee has been very concerned about the totality of the costs that have been signalled without there having been any detailed analysis of how such a system can be effectively implemented.

The SDLP recognises that a farmer's time is better spent on the farm. To that end, I believe that, if DARD worked together with the DOE and the NIEA, cost savings relating to farm inspections could be made more effectively. That would help with the daily running of farms and ensure that our farmers had more time on the farm without the need to deal with extra bureaucracy.

The bureaucracy of DARD continues to frustrate and challenge our farming community. The SDLP would like to see ongoing internal DARD reform. We believe that the Department should be restructured into more of a farm advisory service rather than a cumbersome bureaucracy for the farming community.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does he not agree that that has already been done and that we are looking at ways of collaborative working and streamlining the Department?

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank Mr McMullan —

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Sorry, but the Member's time is up. It was a very late intervention, but it was your decision to take it. I have to call the next Member to speak, who is Mr Leslie Cree.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and congratulations on your elevation.

This has been a difficult year for the Budget-setting process. Although the Minister brought a Budget to the House on 3 November last, the issue was not settled, and it became part of the talks process in the run-up to Christmas. The absence of detailed information in certain areas and time pressures have meant that Committees have not had adequate scrutiny of their respective budgets. Although acute financial pressures appear to have emerged after the June monitoring round, we now know that the Executive were informed of their allocations for 2015-16 as part of the 2013 spending round in June 2013. An obvious question is this: why were the problems not identified and addressed during the previous 12 months?

One of the main problems with the draft Budget was that Committees were not able to scrutinise departmental bids and proposed allocations, including any supporting evidence, prior to the Executive agreeing it for public consultation. We do not know whether a consistent approach was taken across Departments and whether the funding of particular central strategic pressures justified the resultant reduction in departmental resource budgets. I fully support the Committee's recommendation that the final Budget document should provide further information and clarity in that regard.

At this difficult time, it is disappointing that half of the Departments are recording increases in administration expenditure. That area needs to be carefully monitored and reported on. It is also in stark contrast to the reduction in the public sector pay bill anticipated in the draft Budget. Indeed, the alarming figures for potential redundancies being forecast by some Departments are a major concern. We need to have certainty in that area, and, if they are to materialise, we need to see a credible restructuring plan agreed corporately and published by the Executive as soon as possible. It is wise to assume that future budgets will bring pressure on limited resources. It is vital that front-line services be protected. Therefore, consideration has to be given to ways of raising additional revenues as a matter of urgency — not just talk but an action plan.

The Minister introduced the prospect of a Northern Ireland investment fund that could utilise financial transactions capital. I would be pleased to know the outcome of the feasibility study and whether the Treasury has agreed to the operation of such a fund. I certainly hope so, as the scheme has real merit. We still do not have the involvement of all Departments on financial transactions capital, and an agreed approach to promoting awareness among Departments and in the private sector is urgently needed. FTC now makes up a significant percentage of our capital budget, and we have to increase our uptake of it. I seem to remember saying that before. There is £115·6 million in the Budget, but the projects "require ... refinement". I would be pleased to have confirmation that those projects have now been agreed and will be delivered during the year.

On the issue of repetition, perhaps the Minister can update the House on another interest of mine that would have the capacity to improve the whole Budget process. I refer to the review of the financial process, which was agreed by the Committee and supported by the House but has been lost in the Executive for several years. We need this approach more than ever.

I understand that an agreement has now been reached on welfare reform. Again, we do not have the details, but it would be appreciated if the Minister could share them with the House. Is it likely that we would get some of the penalties refunded in this regard?

When the Assembly debated the Pensions Bill last year — the Chair referred to this — there was no reference to the possibility of increased costs to the public purse. However, £133 million is included in the draft Budget to cover increased employer contributions. Can we be sure that this figure is sufficient? What is the risk of other sudden and significant increases in the future?

Finally, there was £10·7 million resource DEL and £8 million capital DEL held at the centre for allocation as part of the final Budget. It would be good to know how that money will be allocated and how and when Departments can bid for it.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Order. As Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, we have insufficient time to complete the contribution from the next Member to speak. I suggest that the House takes its ease until then. This debate will continue after Question Time, when the next Member to speak will be Ms Anna Lo.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — Social Development

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

1. Mr Hazzard asked the Minister for Social Development for his assessment of the results of the recent Social Security Agency pilot scheme on financial support services for benefit claimants which cost £311,000. (AQO 7275/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The financial support service was part of a wider package of measures designed to support claimants to achieve and maintain financial independence. These measures include the departmental funding of front-line advice services delivered by the advice sector and also the provision of benefit entitlement checks, which are carried out by the Social Security Agency's improving benefit uptake team. These checks help ensure that claimants across Northern Ireland receive all the money they are entitled to, in an effort to tackle poverty and improve the lives of those who are most vulnerable. Where appropriate, claimants were offered access to loans and grants from the social fund discretionary provision, benefit entitlement checks and information about the support and advice services available to them in the independent advice sector. Uptake of the support and advice provided by the independent advice sector was voluntary.

The service was delivered face to face and by telephony. The face-to-face service was piloted from 19 May to 15 August 2014 in the Falls Road, Strabane and Omagh jobs and benefits offices. The telephony service was provided centrally from Omagh jobs and benefits office.

The evaluation of the pilot showed that some elements of the service were more successful than others. Results of referrals to the agency's improving benefit uptake team for benefit entitlement checks were positive, and 142 claimants were identified with a potential entitlement to benefit, while 14 claimants have successfully claimed another benefit. The total of annual benefit and arrears for the nine claims is £48,780·51. Up-to-date details of the actual entitlement cannot be obtained at this time, as claimants need time to claim benefit for the benefits to be assessed. However, indications are that the benefit entitlement for claimants referred from the financial support service will increase as time progresses.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that just more than 2,500 claimants were interviewed, at a cost of more than £100,000 per office involved, can the Minister outline his analysis of where the money could have been better spent in the whole process?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I appreciate the concerns that have been raised in relation to the overall cost of the pilot. I certainly have asked that we take cognisance of the fact that this was a cost.

It is worth having the breakdown of the total spend on the financial support service on the public record. The project team salary costs were somewhere in the region of £221,000. The operational staff salary costs were £47,000. The general administrative expenses were £8,000, and the capital costs — that is, IT development — were something in the region of £35,000. So, when you look at the ballpark figure, it certainly raises the question of whether the money was spent in the best way.

I am reasonably content that we got information from the pilot that can be used when we look at how we roll out the service as part of the wider benefit take-up process. I would not conclude that this is the only show in town or the only way to do this. Lessons have been learned, and we need to ensure that those lessons are implemented as we move forward, particularly with the introduction of universal credit.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

As Members can hear, we are picking up some interference. I ask Members to check their electronic equipment to make sure that it is in an appropriate position and not causing disruption.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Following the Minister's previous answer, can I ask him what successes were achieved by the financial support service pilot?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question. In any pilot, you want to try to establish the successes and the lessons learned that we could continue to implement in some other way. The collaborative process between the advice sector and the Social Security Agency worked well during the pilot and fully demonstrated how the Department, the agency and the advice sector could work together in a joined-up and coherent way that embraces the concept of providing enhanced support for claimants.

One of the key issues for me in terms of how we roll out the services to our constituents is that there is a joined-up-working approach between the Department, the Social Security Agency and the vibrant, strong and independent advice sector that we have in Northern Ireland. That was one of the key elements, because it was involved in drawing up the process and was engaged fully through the pilot. Its advice and help in the process was invaluable.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his answer. Given the fact that major changes are coming in the welfare area — major cuts; some want to call them "reform", I prefer to call them cuts — what has he learned from the pilot scheme that will benefit people on benefits in the new situation?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I am not really sure where the Member has been for the last number of weeks in relation to the line trotted out about benefit cuts. One thing that I have seen over the last number of weeks since coming to the Department is that, if you look at the projection of benefit uptake in Northern Ireland, we will move, between now and 2018, from a welfare bill of somewhere in the region of £4·4 billion to one of somewhere in the region of £6·3 billion. I am somewhat at a loss to know exactly what the Member means in relation to benefit cuts. I assume that he is really making reference to the challenge that we will have in ensuring that the needs of the people who face particular challenges are addressed. That is part of what I believe we have achieved in relation to the Stormont House Agreement.

It is also a duty on my part, and the Department's responsibility through social security to ensure that, as I said in the previous answer, through the independent advice sector and the work that my Department carries out through the Social Security Agency in relation to benefit uptake, whether through the pilot carried out or other schemes we are currently looking at, we do all we possibly can to ensure that all relevant, useful and valuable information is available to claimants so that they make the right decisions in relation to this very particular piece of work, which impinges on many households right across Northern Ireland daily.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I advise Members that questions 2 and 10 have been withdrawn.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

3. Mr Spratt asked the Minister for Social Development to outline the progress made in relation to developing a strategy for Northern Ireland Housing Executive multistorey blocks. (AQO 7277/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member will be aware that my predecessor had raised with the Housing Executive his concerns about the lack of maintenance and investment in relation to the existing social housing stock and, in particular, concerns about delays in maintenance and investment in the Housing Executive's multistorey tower blocks. Having come into the post, I share those concerns.

In relation to the multistorey tower blocks, the Housing Executive was asked in May last year to review and identify the necessary work required and then develop a focused maintenance strategy for the 32 tower blocks sited right across Northern Ireland. To deliver on that, and as part of my Department and the Housing Executive's asset management commission, which is currently being carried out by Savills, technical survey reports for the Housing Executive's multistorey tower blocks are due by March of this year. A draft multistorey asset management strategy is then due in May of this year. These consultancy outputs will then be taken forward by the Housing Executive to develop and progress a strategic solution for multistorey blocks in 2015 and beyond.

However, whilst this work is ongoing and awaited, I tasked the Housing Executive to prepare an interim investment plan based on its current understanding of the stock. The Housing Executive has now submitted to me an interim investment priorities plan, which is built around a number of themes, including bringing forward work to be carried out to the multistorey tower blocks. The purpose of the interim approach is to effectively bridge the gap that exists between now and the development of a comprehensive strategy for maintaining all the Housing Executive's housing assets, leading, in turn, to a clear long-term funding strategy.

Jimmy Spratt (DUP, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he outline what else is being done in the interim to improve the Housing Executive stock? Particularly in relation to multistorey blocks, what progress has been made on the cladding of the outside of those buildings, which has been previously suggested?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

In relation to what is being done in the interim to improve the Housing Executive stock, my officials met Housing Executive officials in October 2014 to discuss the position with the maintenance and investment strategy, particularly the strategy for the multistorey tower blocks. It was agreed at that meeting that an interim investment priority plan would be developed, and the Housing Executive submitted its investment priority plan in November. It was built around the tower blocks, non-traditionals with reference to the non-fines pilot, the stock transfer, thermal efficiency and so on.

In relation to the issue that the Member raises in regard to the cladding, at present there is a scheme on site in the Cuchulainn tower blocks. The Department and the Housing Executive's asset management commission has made preparation for a new tower block strategy. As I said, Savills has inspected the external structure of all the tower blocks and has been asked to provide recommendations on the need, the cost and all the ancillary works. I am waiting to get a report on how that is progressing to see what lessons we can learn in relation to this. Indeed, I am meeting the Housing Executive chief executive next week to continue to discuss this particular matter and to see what progress is being made and how we can develop it further.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his very detailed answers. I think that about 25% of the tower blocks are in north Belfast, so I have a special interest in them. Minister, in relation to the survey that has been carried out by the Housing Executive, will there be a focus on the type of tenancy in relation to the future tenancy in tower blocks? Will there be an additional concentration on energy efficiency in relation to tower blocks?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for yet again reminding me about the needs of north Belfast, which he does regularly. He raises an issue in relation to occupancy, and I think that that should not be anything different from occupancy right across the housing stock. However, given the nature of tower blocks, there are particular issues that need to be looked at, and I think that the Housing Executive does endeavour to give particular consideration to that. However, given that the Member has raised the point, I will undertake to have that as part of the discussion when I meet the Housing Executive next week.

With the work that is ongoing, I have a concern not only about the tower blocks in the Member's constituency but others across Northern Ireland, 32 in total. I have gone to see particular issues with tower blocks in the Member for South Belfast's area and I am concerned that we have allowed that particular element of stock, in some places, to deteriorate in a way in which the conditions in which individuals are living are not acceptable. Given the nature of tower blocks, we have to give particular consideration to whether there are additional measures, given the way in which we are now looking at how heating is delivered in those particular properties. I think that is a particular challenge for the Housing Executive. I give the Member an assurance that I will come back to him with more information in relation to his first point.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answers to date. He has referred to external cladding. Will the Minister inform the House of how many companies in Northern Ireland are capable of that work and what steps he will take to make sure that there is no accusation of impropriety and that, when making a decision to appoint a contractor to do that in those properties, there is no connection with his party or any of its elected representatives?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I have to say, I am disappointed that the Member has to lower his political activity in the House to that level. I will give the Member an answer. I do not have the numbers of the specific organisations that can apply, but I give an assurance to him and to the House that, whatever contracts are carried out under my responsibility, they will be done in a way that is open to public scrutiny and is in accordance with the law, and there will be no grace or favour given to any organisation that has any association with his party or any other party in the House. I do not think the Member would expect anything else from me. I am disappointed that he has levelled that accusation at the very beginning of this sitting of the Assembly.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

4. Mr Lunn asked the Minister for Social Development for his Department’s most recent analysis of the Welfare Reform Bill. (AQO 7278/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

In December 2014, my Department published a series of update reports to show the potential impact of welfare reform on local people. Those information booklets can be found in the statistics and research section of the Department’s website under the heading "Welfare Reform Briefing". Following the political discussions that led to the Stormont House Agreement, I will bring forward a paper to the Executive that puts forward further detail on the agreement and the modalities of implementing the changes. That would then enable the welfare Bill to progress through the Assembly.

Sometimes Ministers come to the House and refer to something that is on their Department's website, and then when Members go to it, they find that it may be less than fit for purpose. I assure the Member that, if he visits the website in relation to the welfare reform briefing, he will have enough material and information to keep him reading for the next number of days. It is detailed, because it is a detailed issue in relation to all of the various component parts of our welfare system. That information was updated and is relevant, and I think that it will be valuable, not only for the Member and other Members but for the general public.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for that very detailed answer. He referred to the Stormont House Agreement. Is there any aspect of that agreement on how to progress welfare reform that could not have been agreed at any stage over the last couple of years?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I think that is maybe not a question for the Minister but for others who were responsible for not allowing us to progress the Welfare Reform Bill. Whatever that may be, and however one will interpret what has happened to date, we are in a better position. Let us remember the scenario that was being painted before Christmas. We were facing the collapse of these institutions and a situation where people did not know if they were going to have the imposition of welfare reform that had no changes to it.

I think that, when people begin to see the detail of what has been agreed, in addition to what was agreed previously — let us remember that what was agreed previously was put out to the public domain by me when I came into office, and it received a fair wind and a fair hearing. I think that we need to build on the achievements of the Stormont House Agreement. There is a huge amount of work. I have given an undertaking to the Assembly in relation to the information that we will bring to the Assembly, in terms of the guidance notes and how the Bill will make its passage through the House. That will be subject to a paper that, I trust, I will be able to bring to the Executive shortly, so that we can progress the issue in a way that is efficient and effective, and so that no one in Northern Ireland is adversely affected as a result of the changes.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

The Minister will be well aware, as are the rest of us, that the Welfare Reform Bill is now proceeding with no additional resources being brought to bear from Westminster, which Sinn Féin said it would never do. However, now that it is being done, will the Minister give us an outline, even in approximate terms, about the cost to his Department and to taxpayers for the non-implementation of welfare reform to date?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

In the past, the Member has had the figures relating to the fines. At the commencement of today's debate on the draft Budget, concerns were expressed, and the party was worried about the amount of money that was being removed from Departments. We want to ensure, to the best of our ability, that we reduce and remove the additional fines that would be incurred as a result of the non-implementation of the Welfare Reform Bill. Unfortunately, money has gone in the first part of the process, and I trust that lessons have been learned by those who imposed delay, because that has undoubtedly cost us money in the Northern Ireland Budget allocation.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Minister, in your initial answer, you referred to the detailed information on the website, which is true, but we need to distil the very complex regulations into key core messages. I have been asked about that on the street. Will you state categorically that there will be no bedroom tax in Northern Ireland? Will you give some further insight as to whether there will be a cap on benefit paid?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question. Those two key issues — the bedroom tax and the cap — were already agreed in the previous package. I trust that we will soon see the detail that will come to the House and will be able — I was going to say, "in a very simple way", but I think that it will always be difficult with a complex process, because there are so many component parts, whether it is the bedroom tax, the cap, PIP or any of the elements that make up the welfare reform package, to be definitive in every situation to the final point. However, I give the Member an assurance that we are endeavouring, through a campaign that we will run, to provide information to the public that will be distilled in a way that will make it easy to understand and easy to grasp the impact on them and their families as we roll the process forward over the next number of weeks and months.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. I will home in on a little bit of detail. Will the Minister provide an update on the suggested supplementary payment fund following the talks and, in particular, what, if any, further work has been done on calculating the level of support that it will be able to offer to people who fall outside the funding under universal credit?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the question, and therein lies one of the issues that we have to face: the detail. We are working on a paper for the Executive so that we will be able to bring that issue and a raft of other issues that are in the package to the House and start the debate in the Assembly. However, I will put the caveat that we do not have a huge amount of time. I want to be able to move as quickly as possible to bring the process to the Assembly so that the issue that the Member and the previous Member referred to is in the public domain. It will be necessary to address some of this in the guidance issued by my Department. What I said during the talks and am happy to say now in this public forum is that we will endeavour to ensure that the guidance and implementation will be done in a way that understands people's needs. If anything has been learned from the way in which universal credit in particular has been rolled out in the rest of the United Kingdom, it is more about its implementation than the overall policy intent. I want to ensure that this is rolled out on a practical day-to-day basis across jobs and benefit offices in such a way that people are not disadvantaged and can genuinely have confidence that, if a problem arises, it will be addressed and dealt with in a fair and effective way.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

5. Mr McAleer asked the Minister for Social Development whether the Social Security Agency consulted with any of the major advice agencies regarding the design of its financial support services pilot scheme. (AQO 7279/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

My Department worked in close partnership with Citizens Advice and Advice NI on the development, implementation and delivery of the financial support service pilot. The key representatives with whom the Department liaised and engaged were Mr Bob Stronge, chief executive, and Kevin Higgins, head of policy, at Advice NI, and Pól Callaghan, head of services at Citizens Advice. They were instrumental in the design of the service, including the training of front-line advisers, and in designing a mechanism for measuring the outcomes for budgeting and debt support. There were a number of very successful engagement events with front-line advisers in the advice sector and the Social Security Agency. All organisations included in the design were also involved in the evaluation of the scheme.

In addition to Citizens Advice NI and Advice NI, there was engagement with other support organisations such as Lifeline, Women's Aid and Mencap to inform them of the scheme and to gain their agreement and cooperation to provide their contact details in a signposting leaflet.

I appreciate greatly the commitment, time and effort afforded by my departmental staff, agency staff and the advice sector in helping to support the financial support service trials to inform an integrated joined-up service that provides a more positive claimant experience and ensures that claimants can easily access the advice that they require.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. Can the Minister confirm whether the agencies to which he refers have carried out successful benefit uptake campaigns?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes, I can. We all need to appreciate that the benefit uptake campaign has been very successful, and those organisations were involved in that. I think that we all have seen how that particular scheme has brought huge benefit to many families who would neither have had access to nor benefited from it had the campaign not been in place. I am keen to ensure that it continues and that we build on the success and learn from the process, which, in this pilot, was not perfect by any means. However, I think that the collaboration, as I said in response to a previous question, has given us an indication of how we need to continue to work to make sure that people have access to appropriate information and, as a result of that information, become the beneficiaries of access to benefits.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

Does the Minister plan to further test the financial support service in other offices?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. On completion of the pilot, the decision was taken not to proceed with a roll-out of a further test of the financial support service. That decision was taken on the basis that the pilot did not demonstrate that a roll-out would be cost-effective at present, given concerns raised at the very beginning of Question Time about its cost. However, the elements of the pilot that were successful — I have tried to give some outline to those previously, such as the benefit entitlement check and the provision of the leaflet detailing the organisations that offer advice and support — will be taken forward and introduced into existing service provision across the network of offices. I think that that is something that we need to continue to work at, particularly in the light of the questions that were asked earlier on the roll-out of welfare reform. If there is going to be considerable change to the system, as undoubtedly we will see over the next weeks and months, it needs to be done in a way that ensures that people have all the relevant advice available to hand. This will play a key part in that.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

That is the end of listed questions. We will now move on to topical questions.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

T1. Miss M McIlveen asked the Minister for Social Development how many people in Northern Ireland have benefited from the boiler replacement scheme. (AQT 1901/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the question. The boiler replacement scheme was launched back in 2012. It provided grant funding of up to £1,000 to households with an income of less than £40,000. There was also grant funding for the replacement of inefficient boilers over 15 years of age. The latest available figures show that, since the launch of the scheme, to date, over 22,000 applications for the grant have been approved and over 17,000 households have had work completed. The replacing of an old, inefficient boiler will, on average, save households something like £400 a year and will improve the thermal comfort of the home. I think that this is obviously a good news story and something that people have benefited from, as they have seen very tangible benefits as a result of the scheme.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for his response. Certainly, constituents in my area have benefited from the scheme, which has made a real difference to their lives. Will the Minister give consideration to extending it beyond March 2015, when the current funding will end?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Obviously, I have had a number of requests to extend the scheme. I am giving consideration to that. One of the other additional benefits of the scheme is that somewhere in the region of 2,000 different installers have carried out work as part of it. That obviously had a particular benefit to the local economy. Just in case some Members of the Ulster Unionist Party are listening, let me say that none of those contractors had anything to do with my party or me as an individual, so I can declare that no pecuniary benefit came to me as a result of that. Extending the scheme is something that we are giving serious consideration to. I had a meeting with Phoenix gas at the end of last week, and it has been very complimentary of the way that the boiler replacement scheme was introduced and implemented. We took on board comments that it made on the scheme in particular. So, it is in the in tray, but I may need to have further conversation with the Finance Minister to make sure that funds are available so that we can progress accordingly.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

T2. Mr Weir asked the Minister for Social Development how successful the landlord registration scheme has been since its introduction last year. (AQT 1902/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the question. Obviously, some landlords have come to me to express concern. There are those who believe that sometimes you can have over-regulation in that particular area. However, the current position is that, to date, over 12,000 landlords have registered and provided details of over 26,000 properties in Northern Ireland. Landlords have until 25 February to register under the scheme.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. In light of the fact that we are about six weeks away from the date by which landlords are required to register — 25 February 2015 — I ask the Minister what is being done to remind landlords of that deadline.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member is right that the scheme's deadline is 25 February. I am sure that the Member has seen that we have begun a television advertising campaign; we also have advertisements on the sides of buses and on streetliners to get the message across. However, I have to say that we are not trying to be in any way draconian in imposing this. I genuinely want to get the message across. There is a benefit here for the landlord and also for the people who live in the properties. Therefore, I trust that it will be our experience that as we get closer to 25 February, it is more likely that the large number of those who still have to register will comply and those registrations will take place. You will probably find that.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Members, we are picking up interference. Again, I ask you to check that electronic equipment is not set in a position that will cause difficulties.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

T3. Mr Wilson asked the Minister for Social Development to outline the reason for the delay in bringing the Regeneration Bill to the Assembly, which has resulted in a delay to the transfer of regeneration powers to the new local councils. (AQT 1903/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

When I took up office, or, rather, when I was informed that I was taking up office, it was clear to me that, on a number of issues, we needed to have a conversation as to why we were still in a state of delay. One of the issues was regeneration. The Bill was then known as the Regeneration and Housing Bill. Members on the opposite side of the House will, I trust, bear testimony that I endeavoured to address the issues seen and raised. Previously, there had been correspondence with my predecessor particularly around concerns that, in the context of the Bill, there were issues with regard to housing. I quickly moved to have those elements taken out so that we could, if possible, ensure a speedy progress for the legislation.

By the time all that had been done, it became apparent that we were not able to get the Bill through the processes of the House and get Royal Assent before the summer of this year. Therefore, agreement on accelerated passage was not possible. That is why, next week, I will introduce the Regeneration Bill, not the Regeneration and Housing Bill. The name of the Bill has now been changed, and I trust that I have addressed the issues and concerns that have been raised with me. I am disappointed in the delay; however, the legislative process of the Bill will commence in the House next week.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Maybe the Minister will spell out whether that delay was caused by Sinn Féin's refusal to allow the Bill passage through the Assembly? If that is the case, given that the budget that will be devolved to local councils will now be much smaller than what it would have been had powers been devolved this year, will he spell out how much Sinn Féin's delay tactics will cost local councils in regeneration expenditure over the next number of years?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member gives an overview of the current position. The budgetary implications will be determined when we conclude the current process with regard to the draft Budget and when I know exactly the financial position of the Department. However, I think that the Member is right and that it will lead to a situation where the amount of money to be transferred along with the powers will be smaller than previously envisaged. Obviously, it is convenient for some Members that that will happen under a particular Department other than their own so that the blame can rest with the current Minister as the person unable to deliver the full package.

However, I remind Members that, as far as I am aware, there was still a five-party mandatory coalition when I came to the House today. The issue is an Executive responsibility.

I will say this, however: I have had discussions. The Minister of the Environment set up a panel to look at transition for a range of issues. I attended its first meeting just before Christmas, at which I gave an undertaking to the councils to go out to them, sit down with the new authorities and, as far as is possible within the power that I have in the Department, work with them to mitigate the elements of the reduction in the budget and ensure that, in the transition, my Department and the councils give priority to the schemes that the councils would like to progress in their area. In fact, the dates for those visits have almost been secured in my diary. Be under no illusion —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Minister's time is up.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

— there is no doubt that it will be challenging —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Minister's time is up.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

— and will have a financial impact on the councils.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

T4. Mrs D Kelly asked the Minister for Social Development for his assessment of his Department’s new affordable warmth scheme, particularly in light of the restructuring of local councils. (AQT 1904/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question, which follows on from her writing to me. I thank her for taking the time to give a very comprehensive assessment of practical issues that she has heard being raised on the ground. I trust that she will receive the response soon, if she has not already done so, as it was signed off on. The Member raised issues around the capacity of councils and said that there is a risk that a targeted approach is not equitable.

I believe that the scheme will be valuable. It will add to the previous scheme. There are undoubtedly challenges around any implementation, but I have endeavoured to make sure that comments made to me in correspondence from the Member are listened to and addressed and that we roll out the scheme in a most efficient and effective way so that people who have been targeted in a particular way, differently from how they were targeted under the previous scheme, will be addressed. I trust that that will give a greater sense of urgency to addressing their needs.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for his comments. Minister, you said "efficient and effective". I welcomed, and our party welcomed, the scheme's extension and the inclusion of a greater number of people able to access help with warming their home, but was the scheme subject to a value-for-money review?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes, and a business case for the new scheme was examined by the Department's economists and submitted for approval from DFP.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

T5. Mr Campbell asked the Minister for Social Development to outline the rationale for the recently announced hotel feasibility study in the Portrush area. (AQT 1905/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the question on Portrush. The Portrush regeneration strategy, which was produced a number of years ago, indicated that the development of a large four-star hotel could have a major regenerational impact on the resort. My Department is responsible for urban regeneration, so we have been working closely with Coleraine Borough Council to bring forward the project identified in the strategy, including the hotel. The scoping study is an important piece of work, because it will, I trust, be used to determine what the next steps should be in the development of a new hotel for Portrush.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his answer and for his interest in the issue. He will be aware, of course, that there is a very real prospect of the Open coming to Portrush as early as 2019. Will he outline what plans his Department has in preparation for what will undoubtedly be a momentous event?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. The Member has raised with me the concerns of some local hoteliers about even the scoping exercise that we are currently carrying out, as has his councillor colleague Mr Trevor Clarke. The Member will know that we have agreed to meet those local hoteliers who have raised some practical issues and we intend to do that pretty soon.

On the issue of the Open, I believe that Portrush needs to continue the progress that has been made. Anyone who has visited Portrush recently will, I think, undoubtedly be impressed by the public realm works that have been carried out, particularly those in front of Barry's and on the east and west strands. Also, anyone who has been in Portrush over the holiday period and in recent days will have seen what I have described as "a restaurant revolution". The number of people who now see Portrush as a night economy location for restaurants is, I think, a credit to those involved.

The Portrush regeneration strategy, Coleraine Borough Council and my Department will carry out further work to ensure that every step possible is taken to have Portrush in its best shape when the Open comes to Northern Ireland. That is something that we all need to work towards. That is why I also plan to bring a paper to the Executive that I trust will be supported by my Executive colleagues on how we can, collectively, continue to enhance Portrush for the local tourist industry and wider tourist improvement, on which I believe it will be well placed to deliver.

Oral Answers to Questions — Agriculture and Rural Development

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Questions 4 and 6 have been withdrawn.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

1. Mrs Overend asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline the total anticipated cost of the implementation of the Northern Ireland food animal information system. (AQO 7290/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The intention to procure an ICT system to replace the animal and public health information system (APHIS) was notified in the Official Journal of the European Union in the first week of July 2014. The value of the contract was given as from £56 million to £65 million, excluding VAT, over an anticipated lifetime of 15 years. That value was based on the projection and estimates employed in the outline business case. It includes the costs of the initial development and testing of the NI food animal information system (NIFAIS), support for the migration of data and transitioning from DARD’s existing systems. The anticipated cost also covers the system’s support and maintenance over its 15-year lifetime and any further development, enhancement or upgrade that may be required within that period.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

Can the Minister give a commitment, as her Department enters a budgetary cycle that she admits is immensely difficult, that she will review her decision to spend so much on the new system and, in particular, revisit it to determine if there are any areas in which cost savings could be made?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I assure the Member that the Department has done its homework on the outline business case and on making sure that we cost the system fully. That has all been done and has been fed into the estimate set out in the journal. You have to remember what this system does: it gives us quality assurance; it allows us to stand above others when going into other export markets and targeting new markets, because we can say that we are fully traceable and have a system that stands over that. That is the value of the system.

On the scale of things, £56 million to £65 million sounds like a considerable amount of funding, but you also have to remember that this is over 15 years, includes ongoing maintenance and will be able to respond to any changing needs that the industry may have. So, I think it will be a worthwhile investment that the industry and we require if are to be successful in achieving the aims set out in Going for Growth around targeting new markets.

Joe Byrne (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her comments on NIFAIS. Can she assure the House that a project team is in place and will bring in a cost-effective system within an agreed timescale that meets the needs of the farming community?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes, I can again assure the Member that we are doing everything we can. This system is so important to the industry; it records all the data, all the information. It is important that we work our way through the process, which has been some time in the making to get us to the stage of going out for tender. It is important that the system is right, appropriate and fits the needs of the industry. That is certainly what the project board is establishing and working up, as we speak.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. Will the Minister elaborate on the necessity for such an ICT traceability system?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes. Again, I have made this point on a number of occasions but it is it is important that we make it: what we are talking about here is somewhere between £3·7 million and £4·5 million per year over 15 years, which gives us full traceability for the industry, allows us to target new markets and to really showcase what we have to offer.

The Member will be acutely aware that our industry was able to stand above others over the recent horsemeat issue because we had a full traceability system. That is the value of this system and why we need to procure it to make sure that we have a new system in place that will help our vet service and traceability within the industry. As I said, it helps the vet service around TB work and everything else that happens. It is a necessity for the Department. The project board is making sure that we have crossed all our t's and dotted all our i's in making sure that we are getting absolute value for money and that the system is able to respond to the needs of the industry. I am confident that that is what we are going to have.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

2. Mr Moutray asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline the efforts being made to attract a food franchise to Tollymore Forest Park café. (AQO 7291/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Forest Service has used funding made available through the Executive’s economy and jobs initiative to make the listed building known as the Tollymore Teahouse compliant with modern requirements for public access and fire safety. That work is complete and the building is at the stage where it can be made available for operation and fitting out by a franchisee or developed for an alternative use.

Forest Service is working in partnership with Down District Council on the council’s plans for the overall development of Tollymore Forest Park and officials attended a presentation of the consultant’s advice to the council shortly before Christmas. Forest Service was informed that the council anticipates a need to provide catering facilities. Details for further involvement by the council or a franchisee have still to be developed.

Efforts to find a franchisee continued for some time after the previous tenant left in 2002, without success. The chief reason is believed to be the high cost of operating the building and the difficulty for someone in making an adequate financial return. Since then, Forest Service has offered a mobile catering franchise to meet summer demand, and tenders for the 2015 season are invited by 23 January.

Stephen Moutray (DUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her response. Tollymore Forest Park is one of the most utilised outdoor forest parks in Northern Ireland. Will the Minister do everything she can to see that there is some food provision for this summer, given the number of local and international tourists who visit?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I agree with you and I agree with the potential for the forest. As I said, officials are continuing to work with the council to make sure that we at least have the current arrangement in place for this summer. Obviously, however, we are more keen that we get a sustainable, longer-term solution and we are actively working with the council to do that.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. Will the Department give an assurance that it will consult and cooperate with councils before making any forestry franchises, particularly because the councils have spent quite a bit of money in putting business cases forward for such facilities?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes, absolutely. The development at the forest has been in conjunction with the council and, as I said, departmental officials attended that meeting just before Christmas with the council officials. We are very keen to make sure that we work with our partners. The key to the Department and Forest Service's social and recreational use of forests is that community partnership and the partnership with councils. For me, that is vital; it is the only way that we can take these projects forward if they are going to be successful.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

3. Mr McCartney asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development for an update on the process to recruit social partners to the new local action groups. (AQO 7292/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am pleased to report that 40 events have now been held across the rural North to encourage rural dwellers to join the new local action groups (LAGs). It is encouraging that over 2,000 people have expressed an interest in being a social partner on the new LAGs and, indeed, have completed a membership form. Six hundred people have indicated further that they would be prepared to be a LAG board member and others have expressed an interest in being involved in the day-to-day work of the LAG, such as sitting on assessment panels.

This is great progress and I believe that these figures show that there is clear evidence of the interest in rural communities for people to have their say in how funding is invested in their rural area. The LAG process will continue, with LAG boards being selected by the end of January. I look forward to awarding the new LAGs their contracts as soon as the operational programme is approved by the European Commission.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for her answer. She said at the end that she was waiting for some sort of clearance from the European process, but has she any indication of when the application bids will open?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes. The operational programme is with the Commission. We had hoped to have some initial conversation with it or confirmation of its views on the programme. That has not happened yet, but we are still aiming to get things sufficiently signed off by June. In the absence of that, however, we are going to develop the local LEADER programmes, which will be delivered by the new local action groups. They can be working on that, and we hope to open for what is called animation — open and ask for expressions of interest for new projects coming forward — towards the end of April and the start of May.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Can she give an update on how LAG staff members will be transferred between the old and new LAGs?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I can give the Member more detail in writing; I do not have that detail here. Suffice to say, we are working with councils because they were the employers. That is a process that is being worked through at this time, but I am happy to provide the Member with more detail in writing.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for her response so far. Could she advise the Assembly on the suitable social partners? Would those include conservation groups, which already do excellent work throughout Northern Ireland?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes, absolutely. We are really keen that we get as many views as possible around the table. That is why we have gone out and run hard to try to reach people who were not necessarily involved with the LAG structure in the past. Given the numbers that have come forward, from a quick look through the list, there is a wide range of people, including conservation groups.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

Is the Minister confident that the time frame of June can be met for the opening of new applications?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes. We are not sitting back and waiting for Europe to confirm the programme. It is with them, and we hope to get approval ASAP, but there is a lot of work we can do. There is the animation work on the ground, asking for applications and getting things started. So, yes, I am pretty confident that, by about May, we should be able to have applications sitting on the desks.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

5. Mrs D Kelly asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development how she plans to sustain beef and sheep farming in the less favoured areas in the future. (AQO 7294/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am committed to supporting beef and sheep farmers in our less-favoured areas (LFAs) and have ensured that there is a range of support measures available to support the sustainability of these farms. In January 2014, I agreed to a further less-favoured area compensatory allowance (LFACA) scheme for 2014-15, providing stability to beef and sheep farmers in those areas during this transition period to the new CAP support framework. I announced this morning that payments rates under the scheme will remain unchanged. I expect payments to issue from early March.

Direct support under pillar 1 of the CAP is vital to our farming industry and currently around £160 million goes to farm businesses located in the LFAs. Implementation of CAP reform this year will bring changes for many farmers but the overall level of direct support going to LFAs, particularly the severely disadvantaged areas, will increase slightly, year on year.

The new rural development programme (RDP) will provide opportunities to join a new agrienvironment scheme, help to facilitate integration and cooperation in supply chains, and provide training, advice and support to help to improve efficiency. The proposed farm business improvement scheme will include a portfolio of measures to support sustainable growth in all farming sectors.

In June 2014, I announced the new areas of natural constraint (ANC) scheme for the first two years of the next RDP period. This will replace the current LFACA scheme. I intend to implement a one-year transitional payment for farmers in the disadvantaged areas, as these areas will no longer be eligible for this support under new EU rules.

I will not change the current LFA boundaries in the short term. The redesignation of these boundaries can be considered in tandem with a review of the ANC scheme, which is planned to commence later this year.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her very detailed answer. Minister, what exactly will be the shape of the advice and guidance given to the farmers?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We are going through a period of change because of CAP reform, and everything is changing for farmers in their support, their single farm payment being split into three payments and all the changes around greening. A considerable body of information is coming towards farmers, so we are out on roadshows to try to give people information in person. There is a question-and-answer section on the DARD website, and we have a DARD helpline. I encourage farmers who are in any doubt about any issue to seek advice and guidance.

Our College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE) advisers assist farmers with their business development and how to take their business forward. So, a lot of advice is available through CAFRE also. Again, I encourage farmers to use those services.

Ian Milne (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagra go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her answer thus far. How can the Minister support low and volatile incomes on LFA beef and sheep farms?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I recognise that LFA beef and sheep farmers operate in what is, by the nature of geography, a challenging economic environment. Farmgate prices are not as high as farmers would like. Input costs have increased in recent years, exchange rates are volatile and the current weakness in the euro all impact on returns from exports and reduce the value of single farm payments.

I have worked hard to ensure a fair deal for LFA farmers under CAP reform, which will come into effect this year. The new RDP also contains much that will benefit LFA farmers. I have also continued the LFACA payment into 2015 and maintained the level of payment per hectare. Overall, my Department is delivering a package of measures that will improve and sustain LFA beef and sheep farmers.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

Will the Minister clarify how many farms that received less favoured area support in 2014-15 will no longer be eligible to receive such support? Will she provide an update on the estimated value of the one-year transitional payment?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There are approximately 17,000 farm businesses in the LFA scheme. In terms of the number that will lose out — remember, they will lose out as a result of an EU change, not a departmental change — Europe has said that, next year, there will no longer be a payment to disadvantaged areas. I do not have the figure to hand, but suffice to say I was very concerned that those people would miss out on a payment, so I secured agreement with the Executive for the transitional payment. It is no bother to send the Member information on the number of farmers who will be impacted upon, and the rate will be struck accordingly at the same time of year as usual.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

7. Mr Kinahan asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline the future availability of agricultural property relief on holdings let in conacre. (AQO 7296/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The position on agricultural property relief was outlined in a letter from the British Treasury to the then Ministers of Agriculture and Rural Development and Finance and Personnel in December 2009. That position remains unchanged and clarifies that land let in conacre will qualify for agricultural property relief, provided that the deceased owned the land throughout the seven years immediately prior to death and that, throughout that period, the land was farmed, either by the deceased or by another person.

Although all taxes are kept under review, I am not aware of any plans to change the rules around agricultural property relief and, in particular, how it relates to conacre. As taxation law is complex and liability depends on individual circumstances, it is important that professional advice is sought for specific cases.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I declare an interest as I let out land on conacre. I am still very concerned that those who have done so may find themselves, because of the change in the definition of an "active farmer", losing out. Is the Minister taking advice from HMRC about the future to ensure that farmers are protected and do not find that their future has changed and that they cannot hand their farms on to the next member of their family?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The assessment by DARD as to whether a business is eligible for a particular scheme under the common agriculture policy is not the determining factor when it comes to taxation liability. I assure the Member that, as we go through all the changes from CAP reform, our Department is working very closely with the DSO to make sure that any legal issues that may arise are fully explored. Those are the types of questions that we are being asked by farmers, so we want to provide as much clarity as possible.

As I said, the British Treasury has not made any changes to the scheme that it has on its books, and it has made it very clear that, under current rules, land let in conacre can qualify for agricultural property relief provided that it has been owned by the deceased and farmed, including by another person, through the seven years immediately prior to death. It is a very specific and detailed area, but I can give an assurance that we are working with the Department's solicitors to make sure that we clarify these issues.

Mickey Brady (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answers so far. She has probably covered some of the answer to this question: what is the importance of being classified as an active farmer?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That is the question that comes up time and time again in relation to this topic and other topics. We have worked very hard on trying to provide that detail for people. Unfortunately, Europe was a bit slow to filter the information, but I encourage any farmer who is in any doubt to contact the DARD Direct offices, contact Orchard House or contact the Department in any way. Use the question-and-answer section on the website, use the intranet and use all the avenues that are there to make sure you clarify that you are, indeed, an active farmer. The purpose of CAP reform is to weed out the inactive farmer and make sure that supports go to those farmers who are farming the land.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

8. Ms Sugden asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development for her assessment of the farm management deposit scheme, suggested by the Ulster Farmers' Union, as a risk management tool against future market volatility. (AQO 7297/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The farm management deposit scheme, which operates in Australia, is one of a number of mechanisms that can assist farmers to deal with fluctuations in their annual farm income. The deposit scheme allows farmers to set aside pre-tax income in years of high income and then to draw on these deposits in years of low income, with tax being paid in the year in which the money is withdrawn. This type of system could be beneficial for farmers. However, taxation policy is not a devolved matter and the introduction of such a scheme here is not within my gift. Our own tax system permits farmers to average profits over a two-year period, which allows farmers to spread their tax burden. I would support extending the number of years over which this averaging can take place, but again this is not a devolved matter.

Fluctuating markets is not a new problem, but it remains a very difficult issue for farmers. For me, it is one of the reasons why direct payments, such as the single farm payment, are so important to the agricultural industry. These funds provide a regular income stream, the value of which is reasonably well known in advance. I fought hard to maintain the system of direct payments in the recent reform of CAP and will continue to do so.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her answer. She spoke briefly earlier about departmental assistance to help farmers with their income. Does the Minister acknowledge the current absence of a specific mechanism designed to mitigate price volatility?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Obviously, pricing is a commercial issue. There is a whole range of things that the Department can do to assist the industry, particularly around knowledge transfer, providing advice, helping people to work up business plans and promoting greater efficiency on farm. In looking at what I and the Department can do, we will concentrate on those areas. The other key area that we have to concentrate on at Executive level, not just my Department but DETI, is new markets. We need to explore new markets for the industry. Again, that will help the price in simple supply and demand. These are the areas that we are focusing on in the Department. Your initial question was around being able to spread the farm deposit scheme across a number of years. I would be very supportive of that, and I have actually written to DEFRA to raise that point.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

As the trend is towards continuing growth and expansion opportunities for our farming communities, does the Minister agree that it is important to assist our farmers through these difficult financial times?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Absolutely. We have seen prices fall in the dairy industry and, at the end of last year, in the beef sector. Thankfully, they have improved, but it is a very challenging situation. As I said in a previous answer, we have had a rise in input costs. The value of the euro and all the challenges that are there seem to be conspiring against the farming industry at this time. It is so important that my Department does all that it can to help people through what are very difficult times. One of the things that I did recently was to have a meeting with all the main banks around their being flexible in dealing with their farming customers, given the pricing situation that we are facing. That was quite a positive engagement. I was accompanied by the UFU, which was quite positive in that we were speaking with one voice in asking the banks for a bit more flexibility for the industry as it goes through what is a very difficult time.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as na freagraí seo. The Minister mentioned the dairy sector in her last answer and knows that it is a difficult time for that sector. What support can DARD provide to the dairy sector at this time?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I said, both I and my Department are fully supportive of the dairy industry. We will continue to do what we can throughout this difficult time. One of the recent issues was the introduction of the Russian ban on dairy imports. The Enterprise Minister and I wrote to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs advising of the concerns that were expressed by the local industry, particularly around the ban. We emphasised the need for support from EU level. That is something that I also raised with Commissioner Ciolo? when I was in Brussels in September. I continue to lobby DEFRA on its approach to Europe. We have very different views about supports for the industry. However, I will always fight the corner for our industry.

As I said earlier, I, alongside the UFU, recently met the banks to discuss cash-flow concerns. That was a very useful conversation. We have asked the banks to be very proactive, sympathetic and flexible and to work with the industry. We are hopeful that that will be the experience of farmers. Given the drop in prices, the Russian ban and all the other challenges that are there for the industry, it is so important that I continue to do whatever I can. Alongside the supports that we provide, particularly around advice, we need to be looking at new markets and at what support we can provide for the industry to get into those new markets. How can we target them? What do we have to offer? What is our unique selling point?

I am keen to work with DETI on those areas to live up to the aspirations of the Going for Growth strategy.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

9. Mr Maskey asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development whether she has any plans to examine the greater use of wind energy on her Department's estate. (AQO 7298/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My Department recognises that the further development of renewable energy is a key commitment in the 2011-15 Programme for Government. In 2010, the Executive approved the strategic energy framework, committing that, by the end of 2020, 40% of electricity would come from renewable sources. My Department — Forest Service in particular — is actively investigating the opportunities to support those commitments and obtain value for money. Work from 2009 onwards confirmed commercial interest in the Forest Service estate. A wind energy development manager seconded from the Strategic Investment Board since the start of 2014 is progressing work on site selection and assessment, commercial analysis, policy development and community participation and benefits. This is a large and complex piece of work that is looking at multiple sites. The business case must be robust and must pass the tests of the approval process. I am pleased to report that a strategic outline case to support the work was approved in November 2014, and the next stages of business case development are ongoing.

The Department's business plan requires Forest Service to publish a procurement strategy for the exploitation of wind farm development opportunities on its estate. In the first half of 2015, we intend to offer selected sites for the market to take forward. Those sites are on forest land adjacent to operational, consented or wind farms under development and offer the best potential to deliver projects in a reasonable timescale. In parallel, we intend to assess further sites on forestry land that offer significant larger-scale wind energy potential. I am committed to ensuring that the work is done in consultation and in collaboration with local communities and representatives and making sure that all stakeholders benefit equitably so that Forest Service projects become an exemplar for schemes that provide community participation and benefits from wind farms.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for that comprehensive reply. Does she have any plans or can she give any consideration to, if you like, community benefits resulting from such developments on the Department's estate?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Yes. In parallel with public acceptance, the theme of community benefits and participation is absolutely central to the process that I am interested in taking forward. It is a specific work stream of the wind development plans that the Forest Service is taking forward to review and report on the community participation and benefits models that exist in Ireland and other relevant jurisdictions; to stress-test those models and their suitability for deployment on publicly owned sites — that is, Forest Service lands; and to present that information to community stakeholders in advance of wind farm plans coming forward. It is key that we have community involvement from the initial stages and that communities are very much part of it. As I said, it is essential to the successful exploitation of opportunities on the Forest Service estate to ensure that all stakeholders benefit equitably. In particular, that means early and appropriate engagement with community stakeholders to ensure that, whatever schemes are proposed, community participation and benefits are understood and considered acceptable. That may require the Forest Service to show leadership in that area, potentially in advance of the work that is being taken forward by DETI, as DETI is also in the process of developing an action plan. My Department works with that, but, in waiting for that to come forward, it is important that community benefits and participation are key to any projects that move forward.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as a freagra cuimsitheach go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answers. In light of the collapse of the wind turbine at Fintona, will she provide us with some detail of what health and safety, construction and location guidelines are used by her Department in the construction of turbines on departmental lands?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I have been watching closely and have talked to some of the residents in that area. I believe that what happened is quite an unusual event, but that is not to say that there should not be a full investigation of the ins and outs of what happened and why it went wrong — there needs to be. I believe that that investigation is under way, and we look forward to the outcome. Health and safety concerns will have to be absolutely central to any project going forward on Forest Service land. That will all be built into the programme and the planning, and I assure the Member that the health and safety asks will be of the highest standard in what we will require for anything that goes onto Forest Service land.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

My question is along the same lines: exactly what consideration will the Minister and her Department give to the safety issues of any new wind farms proposed on land belonging to the Department?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It is the same answer. They will have to be key to any project. They will be inbuilt.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

10. Mr Ramsey asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development to outline how the proposed voluntary exit programme will affect her staffing complement. (AQO 7299/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The draft budget for DARD envisages that we will reduce our staffing by around 300 posts by the end of September 2015. For the second half of 2015-16, that would effect a saving of £5·6 million and an annual saving of around £11·2 million thereafter. We anticipate staff leaving the Department under the voluntary exit scheme from the autumn of 2015.

The 300 posts will be spread widely across the functions of the Department, but it is not yet possible to be precise about which posts or functions will be affected. My priority will be to continue to deliver services to our customers in the most efficient and professional way, but this may mean changes to services and how we deliver them. My officials have commenced a number of reviews of the Department’s structures and operating models to identify where the reductions will come from and how services will need to change.

The Department is committed to a review of advisory services and the development of our customer contact model. We are also exploring the greater use of new technologies and digital services to achieve further savings.

It is not yet possible to estimate the number of DARD staff who may avail themselves of the Civil Service voluntary exit scheme, but we will use other opportunities to achieve staff savings, such as natural turnover through retirements, resignations and other leavers. The Department is also participating in the Civil Service-wide embargo on recruitment and promotion and is reviewing the use of agency and casual contracts.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

That is the end of the period for listed questions. We now turn to topical questions.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

T2. Mr Ó Muilleoir asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development what steps she has taken to minimise the negative impact on farmers of the recent NI Water industrial action. (AQT 1912/11-15)

Ba mhaith liom ceist a chur ar an Aire maidir leis an gníomhaíocht thionsclaíoch ag Uisce Thuaisceart Éireann agus a thionchar ar fheirmeoirí.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The situation is very unfortunate, to say the least. As well as the risk to individuals, homes, water supplies and vulnerable groups, it has the potential to affect farm animals, which rely on fresh drinking water. Farmers also need clean water supplies for dairy hygiene purposes.

My officials are working closely with NI Water to find ways to minimise any disruption. Farmers who are experiencing significant water shortages during the current industrial action should contact NI Water in the first instance. Advice on water requirements and dairy hygiene has been made available on DARD's website, but I encourage farmers who are experiencing any animal welfare problems to contact the DARD helpline on 0300 200 7852.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. The Minister plugged the hotline. Will she tell us how many calls have been made to the emergency hotline in that regard?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I suppose that I should have added that we are working closely with DRD. There is a daily multi-agency teleconference, and the Department is involved in that.

The helpline has received only two calls from farmers in Fermanagh, and the veterinary service will follow those up. Those were more about seeking advice on how long the strike has the potential to last. There are concerns, and, as I said, I encourage farmers to contract that helpline if they need any support.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

T3. Mr Buchanan asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development what her Department is doing to help the Northern Ireland beef sector to access the US market, given that she will be aware that, following a two-year campaign by the Southern Government, Irish beef is back on the US menu after a 16-year ban. (AQT 1913/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Core to the work that we did around Going for Growth and the strategy that has been set out was the need to target new markets. We are also working closely with DETI and Invest on the work that they do around the world on that. I go back to the problems that we talked about earlier, the difficulties that farmers face: unless we find new markets, prices will continue to be low, so it is important that we do.

In recent months, new markets have been opening up, South Africa being one. We hope to get into the American market and will work to make sure that we do that. We are a small island, and what we offer has full traceability. We are working closely with the Department in the Twenty-six Counties to make sure that we have full traceability across the island. When we achieve that, there is no reason why, when export markets open up for the Twenty-six Counties, they will not also open up for us.

So, I am very keen to ensure that we explore all those new markets and to work with DETI to make sure that that is what we do for the industry.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

Minister, you are right to say that new markets are vital for the beef sector here in Northern Ireland. Have we any indication when that sector will be able to enjoy and see the coming to fruition and opening up of those new markets?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

No, we do not have an indication of that at this stage. It is very difficult. You will know that, for some time, we have been chasing the Chinese market in connection with pork exports and we have come so close. We are waiting for another veterinary inspection. We hope to have that very soon and we are pushing very hard for it.

My Department has a role in the export certificates, and we are working very hard to prioritise the markets that the industry is targeting. China is obviously a big market that we are exploring, and I have been there on a number of occasions. I will continue to do that until we break in to that market for pork and obviously all the other products that will come after that.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

T4. Mr Campbell asked the Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development when she expects to be in a position to announce the roll-out of the farm business improvement scheme. (AQT 1914/11-15)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member will be aware that, as part of the draft consultation, I set out that, over the next year, 2015-16, we are going to work very closely with farmers. We have set aside a draft allocation of funding to work with farmers on developing their business cases and getting them ready to be able to bid in. We have also set aside some money for the actual physical delivery of the scheme. At this moment in time, we are talking about somewhere around £3 million. However, that is the draft Budget position, and I hope that we will be able to increase that as part of the consultation that I have been having with DFP and Executive colleagues. It is my intention that that will be rolled out before the end of the year.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Obviously, things are pretty difficult in many sections of the agriculture community. Can she identify which sectors are most likely to be able to benefit from the scheme when it is announced?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The scheme is not prescriptive, in that it is not favouring one sector over the other. Those in the whole industry, whether it is the poultry sector, the dairy sector or the beef sector, or, indeed, horticulture or all the many other sectors, are very keen to be able to develop their business, and although they do not all have business plans, they all have business improvements in mind. So, it is important that the Department does the work with the industry, develops people's business plans and helps them to make informed choices on how they will invest their own money and apply for public funds.