Northern Ireland Assembly, 2 February 2015

319 contributions from 64 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Before we proceed with business, I would like to return to comments made by Mr Phil Flanagan during the debate on Union flags on driving licences last Tuesday, 27 January 2015.

I was not present for the debate, but I have since considered the Official Report of Tuesday's plenary session and reviewed the relevant Standing Orders and Speaker's rulings. That has left me in no doubt that Mr Flanagan was challenging the authority of the Chair, which is in breach of Standing Order 1(2).

For the avoidance of doubt for Mr Flanagan and others, let me clarify the position on speaking from a sedentary position. There is nothing in Standing Orders that addresses comments from a sedentary position. What is in Standing Orders is that it is for whoever is in the Chair to manage order in the Chamber. The Deputy Speakers and I do that in the context of the debate. Members have to be heard, but this is a debating Chamber in which there is a level of cut and thrust. No Member can expect to be heard in silence without reaction, particularly if they make provocative comments, as Mr Flanagan did. Standing Orders expressly state that the Speaker's decision on all questions of procedure, including on maintaining order, is final and that the authority applies equally to the Deputy Speakers.

Managing debates from the Chair is not always easy, but regardless of the circumstances of a ruling from the Chair, and whether Members like it or not, Members are obliged to abide by it. I made it very clear last month that I would not allow the procedures of the House to be abused. The authority of the Chair is central to the way in which business is conducted. Therefore, in accordance with Speaker's rulings, I will be restricting Mr Flanagan's speaking opportunities. He will not be called to speak until further notice. Should Mr Flanagan choose to apologise to the House, I will be happy to reflect on the duration of the restriction. Let us move on.

Ministerial Statements

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mr Speaker, with your permission, I wish to make a statement, in compliance with section 52 of the NI Act 1998, regarding the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) inland waterways meeting that was held in Armagh on 27 November 2014.

The Executive were represented by me, as Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure, and by junior Minister Jonathan Bell from the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. The Irish Government were represented by lead Minister Heather Humphreys TD, Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, and Joe McHugh TD, Minister of State with special responsibility for Gaeltacht affairs. The statement has been agreed with junior Minister Bell, and I am making it on behalf of us both.

The meeting dealt with issues relating to Inland Waterways and its constituent agency, Waterways Ireland. Ministers noted the approach being adopted by Waterways Ireland in attempting to maximise the benefit of EU funding opportunities. The Council received a progress report from Dawn Livingstone, chief executive of Waterways Ireland, on the activities of Waterways Ireland, including that the management and maintenance of waterways continued, with over 95% of the navigations open for the period from April to September. Revised draft canal by-laws for the South were prepared following a public consultation process, and consultation on revised Erne by-laws was scheduled for winter 2014. Capital expenditure is focused on major infrastructure repairs, with replacement lock gates at Tarmonbarry on the Shannon. Bridge repairs on the grand canal are ongoing and new floating moorings are installed at Crom on Upper Lough Erne.

The 2014 sponsorship programme continued, with 105 events supported. There was 20·4 kilometres of towpath enhancement on the Royal canal and Grand canal through partnerships with local authorities to fund the developments. There was the development by Waterways Ireland of the Shannon blueway, Ireland's first blueway, which is a multi-activity trail running alongside the water between Drumshanbo and Carrick-on-Shannon in County Leitrim in conjunction with the National Trails Office, Canoeing Ireland, Leitrim County Council and Leitrim Tourism. There was expansion of the schools education programme with the development of a schools walking tour exploring the history of the Grand canal dock. Two new community partnerships to care for the waterways continue to be developed with Mountjoy prison and Dublin Institute of Technology. There has been development of two new businesses along the waterways, with a new cruise hire business on the Shannon-Erne waterway and a new lunchtime food market licensed to use Charlemont Place in Dublin.

Ministers received a presentation on how Waterways Ireland is developing the blueway product and brand development to maximise the use of inland waterway property and infrastructure through the creation of multi-activity trails on and alongside the navigations. That included the potential economic and recreational benefits that long-distance routeways can provide.

Ministers agreed the 2013 indicative budget of €29·47 million, which is £24·17 million, as a baseline for 2014-16 draft budgets. They also noted Waterways Ireland's 2014 draft business plan and budget provision, 2015 draft business plan and budget provision, and the corporate plan for 2014-16. In noting the progress with the business plans, Ministers also approved a number of key priorities for Waterways Ireland for 2015 and noted that the draft business plans and budgets will be brought to a future NSMC meeting for approval.

At a subsequent NSMC language body meeting on 18 December 2014, the Waterways Ireland corporate plan 2014-16, business plan 2014 and business plan 2015 were taken as an additional paper. At that meeting, Ministers also approved the Waterways Ireland 2014 business plan and recommended budget provision of €28·04 million, which is £24·11 million, for 2014; the Waterways Ireland 2015 business plan and recommended budget/grant provision of €27·12 million, which is £21·96 million, for 2015; and the Waterways Ireland corporate plan 2014-16. It also noted the indicative draft budget/grant provision of €25·94 million, which is £22·31 million, for 2016, which will be subject to budgetary considerations in each jurisdiction.

The Council received an update on plans to restore the Upper Lough Erne to Clones section of the Ulster canal. It also consented to a number of property disposals.

Finally, it agreed to meet again in inland waterways sectoral format in spring 2015.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The figures quoted in the statement are £24 million for 2014 and almost £22 million for 2015. Given what is being delivered, is it not the case that Northern Ireland is being short-changed? How much are we putting in, so as we can assess whether we are being short-changed?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Chair of the Committee for his question. I do not believe that we are being short-changed at all, but I am happy to provide him with a breakdown of the figures on spend in the North. I will also provide a breakdown of plans, which should be outlined in future budget bids for spend in the North, so that he can see that there is a start, and possibly a middle and an end, to some of the current spend and proposed future spend.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith again, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas seo ar maidin. I thank the Minister for her statement. She mentioned that Waterways Ireland plans to consult on the navigation by-laws for Lough Erne. Can she give us some indication of the current situation and the impact of any proposed amendments?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The consultation will open on, I think, 9 February and run until April. It concerns the by-laws on the Lough Erne stretch, which cover things such as marinas, parking, washing areas and speed limits, about which Waterways Ireland has received a number of complaints from people who want to use the water. The by-laws will help produce instructions and guidelines for larger boats that are using the Erne system, which is too small for current needs.

This is a welcome development from Waterways Ireland, and the CAL Committee and other Members will be notified when the consultation opens.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

What impact, if any, will the weakness of the euro at the moment have on the work of Waterways Ireland here?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question, which is an important one, given that most of the budget allocations are very prescriptive. The fluctuation in exchange rates will have a bearing, but Waterways Ireland's staff and its governance arrangements are excellent, and I think that it has allowed for that. I will investigate the Member's queries, not only to see whether what I have said is correct but to determine whether there is any other information, which, if there is, I will happily forward to her.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for the update. I notice that there is a gradually reducing budget for Waterways Ireland. Has that been ongoing for a number of years? Can she provide at some stage the Waterways Ireland budget figures for the past 10 years to establish whether its budget has been constantly reducing?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am sure that he appreciates that I do not have those figures here with me, but I am happy to get him the figures for 10 years ago. He can compare them with the latest statement, and I anticipate a raft of questions based on the evidence that I will forward to him.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

The Minister mentioned EU funding opportunities. Will she elaborate further on the possibilities of North/South proposals for funding?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

As the Member is aware, North/South institutions are all-Ireland in nature. If Waterways Ireland sees an opportunity to put in for European funding, as it did for INTERREG IV, it will certainly do so. It is looking at opportunities, particularly to open up blueways, which is the use of waterways along towpaths to create tourist opportunities with local councils. Waterways Ireland is also investigating the possibility of receiving some European funding for the restoration of the Ulster canal.

I know that it is also looking at potential sources of funding that will not only help with the maintenance and upkeep of the waterways but develop other opportunities, particularly with local and county councils, to increase investment in those areas, because, as the Member will know, on a lot of occasions, these areas do not see the investment that they feel that they are entitled to. So, yes, Waterways Ireland is actively engaged in pursuing all opportunities for European funding.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Can the Minister explain why the indicative budget for the 2013 draft business plan was agreed? Does it show the system to be dysfunctional?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I do not quite understand the Member's question. During responses to a statement that I made on a sectoral meeting, he asks why a budget was agreed. The budget was agreed because the right efficiency savings were met. The budget was agreed because, in order to receive the next year's budget, the previous year's budget needs to be agreed.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

It was for 2013.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

For 2013, and 2014 and, hopefully, 2015 will ensue. I am happy that I achieved the level of efficiency savings that was previously agreed.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire, agus cuirim fáilte roimh ráiteas an Aire. I thank and welcome the Minister's statement. An dtig leis an Aire sonraí a thabhairt dúinn faoi na buntáistí a bhaineann leis na hócáidí urraithe seo sa Tuaisceart? Can the Minister give some detail on what benefits the sponsored events will have in the North?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. I am happy to write to her in more detail, but I know that the Waterways Ireland Riverfest, which took place at Christie Park in Coleraine on 9 and 10 of August last year, saw over 100 participants and almost 7,000 visitors. In the past, areas along the waterways, particularly Coleraine, have hosted events with Waterways Ireland. Even areas in the city of Derry, and others along the waterways, in conjunction and in partnership with groups like Fáilte Ireland, Tourism Ireland the Tourist Board, and others, have seen an increase in events. I am happy to try to get a breakdown for the Member and to forward those details.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I welcome the statement this afternoon. I am looking at the blueway product and the development of that. Can the Minister give us any more information on that? Will there be any benefit here in Northern Ireland?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The presentation that we received at the last sectoral meeting in November was very impressive. I know that, in conjunction with some of the local and county councils, they are trying to maximise the tourist potential and are using their local landscape, in this case the local waterways, and looking at events. An example in Dublin is that they are using some of the space to hold a food market. They are getting a licence to do that and to try to encourage more people. I will get the Member a breakdown of all the events that have happened so far. Indeed, I will try to get a breakdown of some of the proposed events for, certainly, this year and, possibly, next year.

Sean Lynch (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas seo ar maidin. The Minister mentioned the Ulster canal in response to an earlier question. Can she outline what progress has been made on the Clones to Upper Lough Erne section of the canal?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. As I said in the statement, it is a standing item on the agenda of the ministerial Council meeting in waterways sectoral format; the Council constantly receives progress reports on the restoration work to the Clones to Upper Lough Erne section of the Ulster canal. At this stage, it is noted that Cavan County Council, Clones Town council and Monaghan County Council have granted planning permission, and approval has been granted by DOE's Planning Service here. I know that the sponsor Departments are reviewing and updating the business case for the restoration of the canal, in light of the change of financial environments, particularly in the South. Waterways Ireland has developed a draft programme of work which takes into account the likes of planning, obviously, environmental impact, land acquisition and the tender and letting of a contract for construction. So, it has been engaged in some preliminary work, despite the fact that we still have not received, and the Irish Government, whose responsibility it is to start the first phase of construction, have not received, the appropriate finance from their government. Certainly, all the work that we need to do in anticipation of that funding being realised, is well under way, and good progress has been made.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh mile maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas fosta leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis inniu. Anuraidh, thug an tAire cuairt ar Iúr Cinn Trá, agus chonaic sí an obair mhaith atá ar siúl ansin ag cumainn éagsúla. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire an dtáinig forbairtí ar bith as sin? The Minister very kindly visited the Newry canal last year and saw the excellent work being carried out there by the Portadown and Newry branch of the Inland Waterways Association of Ireland. She also visited the Albert Basin and saw some of the work of the Newry Maritime Association. Were there any developments from that visit and those meetings?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. As he will appreciate, the Newry canal is not part of the business of the North/South sectoral meeting, although that is probably part of the Member's frustration. I will talk to officials and get an update. Needless to say, I was very impressed with the trust — a group of volunteers — who put an awful lot of work in. I could see the amount of support that they had from across the whole community in getting the Newry canal opened up. I anticipate that officials from DCAL, Waterways Ireland and Newry and Mourne District Council will, at some stage, have a joint meeting to see what, if anything, can be done. I will keep the Member updated.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her report, which was very interesting. She referred to a number of key priorities for 2015 being approved; perhaps she could share some detail of that with us.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Member can see from the statement that, for example, the percentage of the navigation system that is open is increasing year-on-year, which is to be welcomed. The key priority is to settle down and get a better sustainability of budget, if not increase the budget. We also need to look at ways in which we can enhance the tourist product. Waterways Ireland, in conjunction with partners the length and breadth of the island, needs to look at the role we can play because we believe that tourism and the waterways have a good product to offer, particularly to local people and local businesses.

We also want to look at ways in which we can receive and secure additional funding but also target and secure European funding, particularly for the areas that I outlined to Anna Lo such as the restoration of the Ulster canal and the Blueways and the tourist product. Massive work is under way to look at bylaws, and a consultation on the Erne system will happen fairly soon. That will help us to get a better understanding of the guidelines and rules and regulations for our waterways and help people who want to enjoy them. It will also help people who live and work in the area to understand what impact, if any, it will have on their businesses and their community life. A lot of work is under way, and I congratulate Waterways Ireland, not only for meeting the priorities that is has been set but for exceeding them.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I welcome the statement and the progress on the maintenance of the Erne system. I appreciate that tourism is not in her portfolio, but to what extent is there a joined-up approach between councils in Northern Ireland and in the Irish Republic, and between DETI and its equivalent in the Irish Republic, on the promotion of the Erne system as a tourist destination, nationally and internationally?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I will take his last point first; I accompany his colleague Minister Foster to the tourism sectoral meetings and, as he would expect, she is very robust in ensuring that the Erne system is part of an overall tourist product. At those meetings, and certainly at the meetings that I attend as one of the lead Ministers involving Waterways Ireland, there is a constant correlation and partnership between Fáilte Ireland, the Tourist Board and Waterways Ireland. To go back to the Member's first point, I am unsure exactly what the relationship and the connections are between the councils or how often meetings take place between them, but I am happy to find that out.

Needless to say, at all the meetings I attend, as a senior Minister or an accompanying Minister, on the issue of the Erne and the waterways around it — the Ulster canal is an example — all colleagues sing from the one hymn sheet.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Looking through the list of capital projects, I see lock gates on the Shannon, bridge repairs on the Grand canal, enhancements of the Grand canal towpath, the Shannon Blueway and the multi-activity trail at Carrick-on-Shannon. Nearly every one of these projects is in the Irish Republic. Does the Minister see her role as fighting for projects in Northern Ireland or simply sitting there, handing over our money for projects in the Irish Republic?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I would like additional money to be spent in the North. There has been spending on Camagh Bay and Crom in Lough Erne, and the jetties at Knockninny, Gallon and Carrybridge have been upgraded. One of the bigger capital projects will mean spending on the North, namely the restoration of the Ulster canal. I appreciate the Member's frustration that a lot of money is being spent on developing works in the South.

The Member should know that I do not go to meetings just to nod my head. I will make sure that investment in the North is at the level that it should be, if not exceeded. As the Member will also know from his previous walk of life, when it came to making sure that the Irish Budget and the impact of that on the North that was proposed by the Irish Government, I stood my ground to make sure that the North was not affected. It is a pity that some others did not do the same.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mr Speaker, with your permission, in compliance with section 52 of the NI Act 1998, I wish to make a statement regarding the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) language body meetings, which were held in the NSMC headquarters, Armagh on 27 November 2014 and in Stormont Castle, Belfast on 18 December 2014.

At both meetings, the Executive were represented by me, as Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure, and by junior Minister Jonathan Bell from the Office of the First and deputy First Minister, at the Armagh meeting and Minister Simon Hamilton at the Belfast meeting. At the Armagh meeting, the Irish Government were represented by lead Minister McHugh TD, Minister of State with special responsibility for Gaeltacht affairs, and Heather Humphreys TD, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. Minister Sean Sherlock, Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs with special responsibility for North/South cooperation, represented the Irish Government at the Belfast meeting.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Dallat] in the Chair)

This statement has been agreed with junior Minister Bell and Minister Hamilton, and I am making it on their behalf for both meetings. I will report on each meeting separately.

At the meeting held on the 27 November 2014 at the NSMC headquarters in Armagh, Minister McHugh TD chaired the proceedings. Following the usual introductory comments and words of welcome, the meeting dealt with issues relating to the language body and its two constituent agencies.

Ministers noted that the agencies of the language body are actively engaged in the identification of possible opportunities to maximise the benefits of EU funding. Ministers noted progress reports from the chairpersons and chief executive officers of Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency, which included achievements in the period from April to October 2014.

Foras na Gaeilge reported on further progress on the new funding arrangements, including eight meetings of the partnership forum, two meetings of the language development forum and agreement of an overall high-level strategic plan in addition to three-year plans for each of the six strategic areas.

Another achievement was the launch of the new online newspaper, 'Tuairisc', which has a budget of €1·2 million under a four-year contract, and the online lifestyle magazine, 'Nós', which has a budget of €204,600 under a three-year contract.

Targets continue to be met in the new English/Irish dictionary flagship project for the publication of 70% of the final material, including sound files, on the live site before year end and the development of the app specification, which will be available early this year.

A contract has been awarded to carry out analysis of the results of the 2013 major all-island survey on attitudes to the Irish language. This work will contribute significantly in identifying future priorities and policy formulation generally. The consultation exercise on the review of the 2015-17 Irish-language community scheme — scéim phobail Gaeilge — ran from mid-July to 24 November 2014. Foras na Gaeilge is considering the responses received and the timetable for implementation. The process also incorporated consultation on Irish language networks — líonraí Gaeilge.

Development of the new Discover Ulster-Scots Centre at the Ulster-Scots hub in the Corn Exchange building in Victoria Street in the Cathedral Quarter was developed in conjunction with a number of partners. It will maximise the opportunity for collaboration in the Ulster-Scots sector and provide a modern showcase on Ulster-Scots culture for the general public.

Two east-west school twinning projects between primary schools in Ulster and Scotland have commenced: twinning on the theme of shipbuilding heritage between Cregagh Primary School in Belfast and Castlepark Primary School in Irvine; and twinning on the theme of Robert Burns and Ulster-Scots poetry between Glynn Primary School, Larne, and Catrine Primary School, Ayrshire.

Funding and support for 22 summer schools, an increase of seven on 2013, were provided at a range of community venues, with an outreach to over 1,000 young people. Involvement in the area of education has increased to in excess of 100 schools in Ulster this year, including ongoing delivery of 29 after-school clubs and funding for music and dance tuition programmes from September to December 2014 in 49 schools, including five in border counties.

The Ministers also noted progress on collaboration between the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge on projects including the development of a six-week pilot programme, commencing in December 2014, in four integrated post-primary schools, exploring the concept of culture generally and more specifically in regard to different aspects of Irish and Ulster-Scots culture; and ongoing inter-agency cooperation on governance issues and promotion of the work of the language body, including finance matters, commemoration projects such as the James Duffy blue plaque project in Donegal and meetings of the full language body board.

Ministers agreed the 2013 indicative budgets of €16,514,672, that is £13,542,031, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,662,080, that is €3,246,439, for the Ulster-Scots Agency, which are used as the baseline for the 2014-16 budgets. The Council also noted the 2014 draft business plans, with budgets of €15,358,645, that is £13,208,435, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,475,734, that is €2,878,761, for the Ulster-Scots Agency; the 2015 draft business plans, with budgets of €15,193,498, that is £12,306,734, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,449,114, that is €3,023,597, for the Ulster-Scots Agency; the draft corporate plans 2014-16 for Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency, with indicative budgets of €14,532,911, that is £11,771,658, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,342,630, that is €2,892,136, for the Ulster-Scots Agency in 2016, which will be subject to budgetary considerations by the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive; and the positive outcome arising from the use of the 2013 indicative baseline, with the proposed 2015 allocation bringing the budgets for 2014-15 in line with the overall cumulative requirements for efficiency savings agreed by the Finance Departments.

In noting the progress with the business plans, Ministers also approved a number of key priorities for the agencies in 2015 and noted that the draft business and corporate plans and budgets would be brought to a future NSMC meeting for approval.

The Council noted that the 2012 consolidated language body annual report and accounts were laid in the Houses of the Oireachtas and in the Northern Ireland Assembly on 24 October 2014. Ministers also noted that the field audits in regard to the 2013 accounts have been completed, and, following work by the Comptrollers and Auditors General to finalise accounts for each agency, it is envisaged that the 2013 consolidated language body annual report and accounts will be laid by spring 2015. Ministers noted that both agencies are on target to submit their draft 2014 annual report and accounts to the sponsor Departments by 31 March 2015.

Ministers noted that Foras na Gaeilge and Bòrd na Gàidhlig are committed to continuing the delivery of the Colmcille project in support of Gaelic language development initiatives in both jurisdictions and in Scotland. The Council approved new administrative arrangements for Colmcille, comprising the following key elements: Foras na Gaeilge will continue to promote Colmcille in both jurisdictions and Bòrd na Gàidhlig will continue to promote Colmcille in Scotland, without direct budgetary and administrative links; an inter-agency joint working group will be established to focus on strategic projects and to discuss funding priorities and other collaborative initiatives, as well as to share best practice and create sustainable community links; and ring-fenced co-funding for Colmcille will continue to be provided to Foras na Gaeilge annually by the two sponsor Departments.

Ministers received a presentation from the CEO of the Ulster-Scots Agency, outlining the Bruce Heritage Trail project to commemorate the 700th anniversary of Edward the Bruce in Ireland, and acknowledged that this project complements the agency’s ongoing work in the areas of education and cultural tourism.

On 18 December 2014, in Stormont Castle, I chaired a single-item agenda NSMC language body meeting, which was also attended by Minister Simon Hamilton MLA and Minister Sean Sherlock TD. Ministers noted that Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency, as constituent agencies of the language body, have applied the efficiency savings to the corporate plans 2014-16 and to the business plans and budgets for 2014 and 2015, in accordance with the guidance issued by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Finance and Personnel.

Ministers approved the 2014 business plans for Foras na Gaeilge and for the Ulster-Scots Agency and recommended budget provisions for 2014 of €15,358,645, that is £13,208,435, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,475,734, that is €2,878,761, for the Ulster-Scots Agency. They approved the 2015 business plans for Foras na Gaeilge and for the Ulster-Scots Agency and recommended budget/grant provisions of €15,193,498, that is £12,306,734, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,449,114, that is €3,023,597, for the Ulster-Scots Agency. They approved the corporate plans for 2014-16 for Foras na Gaeilge and for the Ulster-Scots Agency and recommended indicative budget/grant provisions of €14,532,911, that is £11,771,658, for Foras na Gaeilge and £2,342,630, that is €2,892,136, for the Ulster-Scots Agency in 2016, which will be subject to budgetary considerations in both jurisdictions.

Ministers also discussed Waterways Ireland's business plans and budgets of 2014 and 2015 and its corporate plan of 2014-16; the Special EU Programmes Body's (SEUPB) business plan and budget 2015; the Food Safety Promotion Board (Safefood) business plan and budget 2015, and the appointment of chair to its advisory board.

The Council agreed that its next meeting in language body format will take place in spring 2015.

Nelson McCausland (DUP, Belfast North)

The Minister referred to the Colmcille project, which dates back quite a number of years to the days of direct rule and the Northern Ireland Office. I understand the arrangements — I think — that are being put in place, but no budget is set side against Colmcille. Does that mean that it is a separate budget or is that money being subsumed into the figures that are quoted here for the North/South body? The problem always was that, on top of what was given to the North/South body and Foras na Gaeilge, there was top-up money for Gaelic culture and language, with no equivalent for the Ulster-Scots and Scots traditions.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

It is subsumed in the budget; that is why I said in the statement that it was ring-fenced in Foras na Gaeilge. On my watch — not on yours or that of any other colleague — I ensured that, when it came to Ulster Scots, there was an east-west dimension. I am sure that your colleague Sammy Wilson can adhere to that. I took the bull by the horns and ensured that there was some aspect of Ulster-Scots culture and heritage, east-west, as well. In answer to your primary question, it is subsumed in the budget.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a dara ráiteas inniu. I thank the Minister for her second statement today. What effect does she think the new councils will have, particularly on the language officers, who are currently funded by Foras na Gaeilge?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am concerned that the Irish language posts funded successfully in partnership with Foras na Gaeilge and the councils will be vulnerable when the new councils fully assume their responsibilities. Foras na Gaeilge shares those concerns, as do many other groups. Foras na Gaeilge has put in place a proactive programme of action, which includes the chief executive and deputy chief executive arranging meetings of all the new council chief executives and their senior officials to raise the issue.

Foras na Gaeilge has, as part of its statutory function for responsibility in the promotion of the Irish language, tasked Conradh na Gaeilge, the lead organisation for the responsibility of awareness, protection and representation, as well as the six core-funded groups, to work with the new councils in drawing up best practice for councils. I certainly endorse that. I am not surprised that the Member asked the question, as there is a fair degree of concern in the community. However, existing and new councils realise that they have statutory obligations and duties, and ensuring a continuity and continuation of their obligations to the Irish language is one of them.

Dominic Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an ráitis seo. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire an féidir léi sinn a thabhairt suas chun dáta maidir le Slí Cholmcille: an tionscnamh a bhfuil sé mar aidhm aige turasóireacht idir Éire agus Alba a chothú agus naisc a chur ar bun idir pobail teangan in Éirinn agus in Albain? Will the Minister update the House on the three-year plan for Slí Cholmcille, the Colmcille trail, which is part of the project to encourage cultural tourism between Ireland and Scotland and to establish links between language communities in three jurisdictions?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am certainly happy to provide him, and indeed other members of the CAL Committee, with an update on Slí Cholmcille. I know already, through my contact with colleagues in the Scottish Government, whom I met as part of the City of Culture, that this project, celebrating the life and times of Colmcille, and indeed other working relationships, have been mentioned as valuable. There is a strong desire for those to continue.

We have a lot to learn from each other as well. The children involved in the Colmcille project that I mentioned have looked at language, culture, heritage and tourism.

I will update the Member. I will get as many as possible of the details that he asked for and send them to him. I will also share them with the CAL Committee.

Leslie Cree (UUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for the statement. Minister, you referred to the 2013 indicative budget and said that that was carried through into the draft business plans for 2014 and 2015. You also referred to key priorities. Will you expand on what, on the face of it, looks like a confusing picture?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am sorry that the Member is confused. I will take his question, have a look at the detail and see whether I can provide further clarity.

Some of the accounts in the business plans are not in sequence because I could not agree to some of the efficiency proceedings. That is why the system almost looks out of sync. However, notwithstanding that, the work proceeded as planned and as outlined in previous business plans, and, indeed, in the overall corporate plans for Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency.

Some of the key priorities outlined in the statement have been very encouraging, particularly the work done between the two agencies and the work that both are doing in post-primary schools on the Irish language and on Ulster-Scots culture and heritage.

However, I hear what the Member says, and I will certainly try to provide more clarity and more detail, which hopefully will help. If it does not, I anticipate the Member asking me a further question or even knocking on the door of the private office.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I am really pleased to hear about the two agencies collaborating to look at different aspects of Irish and Ulster-Scots culture in four integrated schools. That is precisely where that should take place, so that our young people can learn from each other. What is the next step, given that it is just a pilot programme?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. Previous to that project, work carried out by the two agencies was done in primary schools. We have now gone into post-primary schools, and that is very important and encouraging. The feedback from the primary-school children themselves is that they value language, culture and heritage and have a great curiosity. That curiosity needs to be nourished.

In post-primary schools, the programme involves looking in particular at what the Irish language and Ulster-Scots culture and heritage mean to each of the children and their communities, but, again, it also about satisfying their curiosity. The message from both agencies, in all that they represent and bring, is that working together has been very positive. Although it is a pilot programme, I anticipate it being continued, and I believe that it will prove as successful as previous joint work undertaken by the two agencies.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I want to ask about the agreed budget for the Ulster-Scots Agency. I understand that the agency has to pay for the development of educational materials in schools, while your Sinn Féin ministerial colleague is putting large investment into Irish-medium materials in schools.

Will the Minister encourage the Education Minister to fund such educational materials for the Ulster-Scots culture in order to promote cultural and financial equality?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I met the Ulster-Scots Agency to discuss how we can have better working relationships and better outcomes for it across the board. I understand that Minister O'Dowd, the Minister of Education, has met or is in the process of meeting the Ulster-Scots Agency as well.

I have absolutely no doubt that the members of the agency will articulate some of their concerns and some of the areas of work that they wish to see developed in partnership with the Department of Education. What was very clear to me was that the Ulster-Scots Agency, particularly its board and senior staff, did not want any political point-scoring or meddling on the issue. It wants seamless links, it wants support and it wants to get that done in an environment in which people are not involved in one-upmanship. If you are not too sure what that looks like, I suggest that you talk to the Ulster-Scots Agency.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an dara ráiteas aici inniu. An dtig leis an Aire soiléiriú a thabhairt ar an dóigh a ndéanann Gníomhaireacht na hUltaise cinnte nach dtugtar maoiniú do bhuíonta ceoil a ghlacann páirt in iompar frithshóisialta seicteach?

Can the Minister provide clarity on how the Ulster-Scots Agency ensures that funding for bands is not awarded to those who participate in antisocial, sectarian behaviour?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. I know, for example, that my Department and the Ulster-Scots Agency are committed to the promotion of equality of opportunity and good relations. That is not just in relation to the Ulster-Scots Agency, although I recognise the Member's right to ask the question, particularly in relation to the statement. Any organisation receiving funding from my Department and its arm's-length bodies must comply with equality and good relations policies. The Ulster-Scots Agency and the Arts Council have advised that they do not, and will not, fund or support any bands that do not fully comply with those requirements. As part of the application process, the Ulster-Scots Agency also checks individual band websites to ensure that there is no evidence of content that would breach those guidelines. I hope that satisfies the Member. If she wants to write to me to receive further details, I am happy to receive that and to try to furnish her with the information.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I welcome the statement. Foras na Gaeilge appears to be launching two new online publications. The Committee received evidence on difficulties facing the printed newspaper. Has there been any review of the problems and why it did not work? Was it due to figures?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

To be totally honest, I am not really too sure what the update is, but I will certainly get that for the Member. I would also like to find out what the update is. My understanding is that there were issues in the past and that they have been sorted out. However, I want to make sure, and I will let the Member know in writing or I will get in contact to give him the information.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Does the Minister see the reduction in the language body budget, coupled with the weak euro, as having an impact on the delivery of the business plan and programmes?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The Member asked the same question in relation to the waterways, and I gave her an assurance. I have confidence in both organisations — Foras na Gaeilge and the Ulster-Scots Agency — to manage the fluctuations of the euro. With regard to the reduction in the budget, I ensured that the levels were set as agreed in 2011 by both Finance Departments. Had I not done that, both agencies would have seen a decrease in the funding that they were awarded. In relative terms, that would have had a bigger impact on the Ulster-Scots Agency than on any other. I am happy to say that is not the case, but I will be keeping an eye on the rate of the euro to see whether it has any impact on the overall budgets.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for the statement. I note the issue of budgets and the equivalent between the agency and Foras na Gaeilge. Unfortunately, that disparity continues. The Minister will be aware that, last year, I asked for a Líofa equivalent project to be brought forward for the Ulster-Scots Agency because Líofa came forward from the Department to Foras na Gaeilge, which refused to take it forward and declined to do that. That has meant an extra £625,000 for the Líofa project coming straight out of DCAL and two extra staff. Where is the extra resource that will go into Ulster Scots, and why has she asked the ministerial advisory group on the Ulster-Scots Academy (MAGUS) to take that forward and not come forward with suggestions, as she did in terms of the Irish language equivalent?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

First, I am not too sure why the Member has not got his facts right, but I will certainly clarify something for him. First, Foras na Gaeilge did not refuse to take a Líofa project on, and if it is telling you that it did, that is news to me. From September 2011, when I launched Líofa from DCAL, I met the Ulster-Scots Agency on several occasions and asked it for an equivalent. I understand that it is not going to come in the form of a language, but certainly a project in relation to the Ulster-Scots culture and heritage. I asked it for an equivalent, and I told it that I would support it financially. Nothing came.

I fund very generously the ministerial advisory group on Ulster Scots, which I did not ditch coming into the Department; I kept it on and gave it increased funding. I asked it to bring something forward because nothing came from the Ulster-Scots Agency. Short of going into both departments and doing it myself, which I have not got time to do and am not qualified or equipped to do, I want to have it done with due regard and respect, and if the Member has any influence or any ideas to bring forward for both those agencies, independently or together, I am happy to hear them. However, we are now in 2015, and I asked for that from September 2011. The delay is not my fault, and it is not in my Department; it is with the Ulster-Scots community. I remain open to an initiative coming forward. Like the Member, I am very excited to see what that is, if it happens at all. It is certainly not my Department's fault.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I note that, despite the cuts in the budgets for schools, health, education and roads in Northern Ireland, the agreed budgets for 2014 and 2015 do not see one penny reduced from the budget for the language bodies. It is going to be spent on very important things such as lifestyle —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Order, please. This sounds very much like a speech. It is questions to the Minister.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I am coming to the question now.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Good.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

Can the Minister justify not one penny being reduced from the expenditure of Irish language bodies while, at the same time, schools in Northern Ireland are crying out for funding to keep teachers and special needs facilities in place and hospitals are looking for money to deliver operations and accident and emergency services?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I note the Member's concern for budgets. It is very touching; he did not have the same passion and commitment for the Irish language, schools or education previously. The Member raises a very interesting point. He obviously did not listen to an answer I gave to one of the MLAs who asked about the budgets before. Had I agreed to the massive impact of 12% and more of cuts to the language bodies, the Ulster-Scots Agency, in particular, would have seen a huge impact, which would have meant that the work of the Ulster-Scots Agency would become unviable. If the Member feels that I should initiate that level of cut to Ulster Scots, he needs to talk to his colleagues right beside him who are arguing for additional money. Again, it is the betwixt and between nature of the DUP when it comes to language, culture and heritage. Some like it and some do not. Some want funding and some do not. Others do not really know what they are doing, depending on what day they walk in here and what question it is.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The last time the Minister reported on the sectoral meeting of the language body, she did a lot of grandstanding about having refused to approve the business plans because of the level of cuts. Will she bring some clarity? Has she now, in these business plans of 2014 and 2015, approved cuts? Did she roll over, or did someone else roll over? Will she shed some light on that?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

The term "roll over", as far as I am concerned, relates to the Member's narrative around most of the things in here that he is not involved in. I did not grandstand at the last sectoral statement or any statement before. I expressed and renewed my commitment to ensuring that the Ulster-Scots Agency, in particular, was not going to be hit by the worst impact of the Budget suggestions. The 1% that was agreed previously has been maintained. That is a good-news story, but obviously the Member is not happy with that; he would much prefer that we wipe out the agency in order for him to say that we can achieve financial stability for other areas. Once it is the Ulster-Scots Agency, it will be Foras na Gaeilge, and we will then go up his list of things that he thinks are surplus to requirements. I do not. I think the Ulster-Scots Agency and Foras na Gaeilge do excellent work. They are as entitled to a budget as any other function in the Assembly. I am quite pleased that we have kept the level of reductions to the least possible level, and I will continue to do that. It is my role as Minister to ensure that those budgets are kept at the level that was agreed.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In answer to the question that I placed to the Minister, she said that I should get my facts right in relation to the Líofa project. I suggest that she might review the evidence given by the chief executive of Foras na Gaeilge to the Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee only a few weeks ago.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I do not believe that that was a point of order.

Committee Business

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes to propose and 10 minutes to wind up.

One amendment has been selected and is published on the Marshalled List. The proposer will have 10 minutes to propose the amendment and five minutes to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I beg to move

That this Assembly acknowledges the key role our further education and higher education institutions play in growing the local economy and delivering on the Programme for Government's cross-cutting priorities; and calls on the Executive to affirm their commitment to support and invest in the local higher education and further education sectors.

The Committee for Employment and Learning unanimously agreed the wording of the motion to ask the Assembly to reaffirm its commitment to investing in our future by acknowledging that our universities and colleges create a framework for prosperity and contribute significantly to securing growth and providing opportunity to Northern Ireland. In recent months, the Committee for Employment and Learning has received evidence from the higher education and further education sectors, stressing the impact of the proposed cuts to their budgets. No witnesses were more vocal than the students, who articulated their concerns about the threats to numbers and to further student supports.

Given our current financial situation, savings must be found in all areas, and higher and further education can be no exception. However, in doing so, we must ensure, first, that we send a strong message to our universities and colleges that we value their contribution and, secondly, that, in acknowledging their benefit to Northern Ireland, we do what we can to limit the impact of cuts on their work. Every day, our universities and colleges succeed in turning aspiration into reality. They support and bolster Northern Ireland’s ambition and purpose. They provide innovative education that expands the horizons of our young people and equips them to take their place in the wider community. Central to the Programme for Government is the regeneration of the Northern Ireland economy, specifically the creation of a strong, vibrant, knowledge-based economy. Further and higher education are key to this.

In the knowledge economy index, Northern Ireland is the region with the second fastest growing knowledge economy in the UK. The quality of our universities and graduates is Invest NI’s number one selling point in attracting foreign investment and jobs to Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland universities have formed 550 knowledge transfer partnerships with local companies, helping them to generate over £132 million in profit and £73 million of investment in equipment. Nearly 700 jobs for graduates and over 1,000 other jobs have been created, and training has been provided for over 8,200 staff. Higher education has created over 110 spin-out companies, generating several thousand high-value jobs, and Queen’s University and Ulster University are planning to invest £750 million in capital development over the next 10 years, creating 14,000 construction jobs.

Ulster University has a national and international reputation for excellence in higher education and innovation and for its engagement with business and industry. It is currently home to over 26,000 students and over 3,000 staff. Despite the economic challenges of recent years, one of the success stories has been the continued growth of the creative industries in Northern Ireland, and Ulster University provides the vast majority of creative graduates for the visual and applied arts and design professions, which are the backbone of that industry.

The Open University specialises in providing flexible and accessible part-time higher education, with almost 4,000 undergraduate students in Northern Ireland. It offers a route into higher education for anyone with a desire to learn, thus creating a more highly skilled society and workforce, regardless of social background. This part-time study is vital in supporting our economic recovery. The Open University offers opportunities to upskill and reskill the current workforce in Northern Ireland by offering work-based learning programmes in health, management, education, IT, science and other economically relevant subjects. The Open University caters for students whose education needs are not met elsewhere: 15% of Northern Ireland students have a disability; 73% are in employment; and 23% of students live in 25% of the most deprived areas.

Our universities engage in research of global significance, and they are the stimulus for growth for Northern Ireland. Our colleges support our school leavers by providing the skills, drive and enthusiasm needed to engage at the highest levels in the global job market.

Sammy Wilson (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. He made a very compelling case for higher education in Northern Ireland, but does he accept that there is still room for efficiencies in universities and for selling the excellent services that he outlined, especially research opportunities and the income that could be generated from those? Perhaps we should also question whether the university route is suitable for over 50% of the population, when some of the required skills could be delivered by other education institutions.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

To back that up, I will provide further examples of the excellent work that our further education and higher education sectors do in assisting the Assembly to meet its Programme for Government commitments. It is all too easy.

In the most recent research excellence framework for 2014, which assesses the quality and impact of UK higher education institutions' research, Queen’s received the following accolades for the breadth and depth of its research excellence. It was ranked eighth in the UK for research intensity and seventeenth in the UK for research power. In that same research excellence framework for 2014, Stranmillis University College also demonstrated that, with 72% of the college’s research assessed as being internationally recognised to internationally excellent in standard. The proposed loss of the premia for the university colleges plus a funding reduction of some 10·8% in the 2015-16 Budget was discussed in Committee, but no Committee view was agreed.

Teaching the teachers is also a vital aspect for the future economy of Northern Ireland, because, as we all know from our own schooldays or those of our children, a love of learning, enthusiasm and desire springs from the quality of teachers in our schools. In that, Stranmillis and St Mary's University College have proved their excellence. The contribution to the FE sector fulfils the principles of the Programme for Government and all related strategies such as the economic strategy, the innovation strategy, Together: Building a United Community and a shared future.

The further education sector is also a vital cog in the machinery of the local economy, and the six regional FE colleges provide a vital service for vocational and technical training in Northern Ireland. Skills are a crucial element in rebuilding and rebalancing our economy, and the FE sector has been driving that agenda for the last decade, working with many large employers, all of which are supported through various initiatives run by the colleges themselves.

Between them, our six regional further educational colleges offer provision to over 90,000 learners across 142,000 enrolments. From 2008 to 2013-14, there were a total of 45,742 apprentices across Northern Ireland, the majority of whom trained through one of the six regional colleges. That picks up on Mr Wilson's intervention, and there is an alternative route through the colleges. FE colleges are the main providers of vocational and technical education and training in Northern Ireland. The sector plays a central role in raising levels of literacy and numeracy and provides progression routes to higher education, training and employment. Colleges also play an increasingly important role in supporting local business and industry through knowledge-transfer activity and bespoke training. The further education sector and its contribution to economic development and growth through the provision of higher-quality education and training is central to rebuilding and rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy.

In conclusion, without a commitment to support the further and higher education sectors and everything that they stand for, Northern Ireland would be a much poorer place. For those reasons, I ask the Assembly to support the motion and the House to fight for —

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

— and ensure that the impact of the budget cuts to the FE and HE sectors is kept to an absolute minimum.

Jim, I want to make a contribution as party spokesman for the Ulster Unionist Party on the motion and the amendment.

As the Ulster Unionist Party spokesperson, I acknowledge the concerns that have been raised across Northern Ireland about the number of student places that could have been cut in HE and FE: 1,000 university places and 16,000 college places.

The amendment has been tabled by Sinn Féin Committee members, and I ask that Members look at it in the context in which it has been tabled. The topic was debated last week in an Adjournment debate, and there was an opportunity, during last week's Budget debate, to put it in as an amendment. Given that the amendment does not stipulate an amount that Sinn Féin would want to be reallocated to the premia, which Sir Reg Empey assigned to the colleges when he was Minister for Employment and Learning, we are prepared in this case to support the amendment to bring forward support to Stranmillis and St Mary's so that money is put in the budget to give both colleges the time to implement one of the four recommendations of the international panel that the Minister invested in, rather than using the opportunity of the Budget to bring forward his own party's agenda. He knows that I have made that call to him a number of times.

Jim, I will take a quick intervention.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On that point, I am glad to hear the Member reiterate support for the premia. I think that, particularly in regard to Stranmillis, it is crucial to the viability of that very important college, and I trust that the Member and the House will recognise that. I hope that, one day, even the Minister will recognise it.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

Thank you for that intervention. I think that that will be one of the points that will be made clear tomorrow. I thank the Minister for agreeing to come in front of the Committee tomorrow in regards to the budget and, specifically, the budget on that.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is up.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I am sure that members of the Committee, and of this House, will question him on that.

Bronwyn McGahan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. I beg to move the following amendment: At end insert

"; and further calls on the Minister for Employment and Learning to reinstate the premia payments to St Mary’s University College and Stranmillis University College."

These colleges face eventual closure, due to the fact that the Minister intends to withdraw the special premia. I urge the Minister to withdraw this threat and begin discussions with both colleges to secure their future.

As a strong advocate of the merits of lifelong learning, and having myself benefited from our local further and higher education sectors, I always take the opportunity to voice the benefits of such, especially in the development of skills that assist with building greater self-confidence and employability for all those citizens wishing to re-enter the labour force and meet the challenges of working in an economy that is forever changing, given the process of globalisation.

I believe in the power of further and higher education to promote women's independence and help break through the barriers that society often attempts to put in our way. Quality training and education provision help women and marginalised sections of our society to have a chance to play important roles in the labour economy, while often helping to break the cycle of poverty for many families. Given the fixation of David Cameron's cabinet of millionaires to advance the European-wide conservative agenda of austerity, such chances for impoverished women and others are becoming increasingly diminished. We have only to look at the monumental task that we, as legislators, have in front of us to protect front-line services, given the year-on-year cuts to our block grant by Cameron's millionaires. We see the impact of that, for example, on St Mary's and Stranmillis colleges. We are also watching the rise of hard-working families being designated as the working poor, as poverty wages are paid to those working in many service industries. Hence this debate on the important matter of investing in the higher education sector and creating quality employment opportunities with good remuneration.

I visited, for example, South West College, with MEP Martina Anderson, and we were impressed by the great strides that that college is making in enhancing its reputation in our community as a first-class provider of quality training, as well as of further and higher education. In particular, the college's ongoing commitment to the strong, local, specialised engineering sector is immense and to be commended.

We are not without our challenges, but the creation of a vibrant economy is at the heart of the Executive's Programme for Government, with the further and higher education sectors playing a pivotal role in the creation of a sustainable knowledge-based economy. Our education providers play a key role in meeting the skills needs of our local economy by providing a skilled workforce, as well as by making a positive contribution to cultural life here in the North. Those providers include St Mary's University College and Stranmillis, which are facing a disproportionate cut to their funding. The roll-out of the higher education strategy needs to be part of an integrated approach to providing skills, enhancing education outcomes and supporting trainees and students, while making a massive contribution to the creation of jobs. There are challenges ahead of us. We are tasked to lead and grow our economy while at the same time creating positive social change.

Our economy is demanding a higher level of relevant skills, and economic success is increasingly dependent on knowledge transfer and innovation. A recent report by Copius highlighted that there is a huge gap in practical skills and that the current level-2 qualifications in those disciplines being offered in the North's further education colleges are insufficient in having potential workers skilled up to carry out work opportunities that we can grow.

When I last addressed the House on these important matters, nowhere in the North qualified welders for the highest levels needed for specialist engineering work. That has led to companies going outside the North to attract skilled people to carry out the work here. The skills gap is not only in practical skills; it is developing across all areas of employment, from information and communication technology, agriculture, retail, hospitality and construction.

Business and employers' organisations have all pointed to opportunities for the future, given the right investment and the right emphasis on skills. For example, Momentum indicated that it could create 20,000 jobs in the next five years, and CBI research pointed to a range of future opportunities as follows: 10,000 jobs in the ICT sector; 7,500 in the agrifood sector; about 6,000 in health technologies; 1,700 in advance manufacturing; 21,000 in tradeable services; 10,000 in tours; 11,700 in creative industries; 1,600 in green tech; 7,000 in renewables, power and energy; and circa 49,000 induced direct jobs as a result of consumer spend. That is about 125,000 jobs.

The increased demand for STEM qualifications must be met to help to fill the potential of much-needed job creation. I believe that that is an area that would enhance St Mary's and Stranmillis if they were provided with the funding to diversify. We need to develop a programme where further education providers work in harmony with newly emerging industries and prospective investors so that real training needs can be identified.

Finally, lifelong learning should be the cornerstone of our education system. Go raibh maith agat.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

I do not think that anyone will disagree with any of the sentiments contained in the Chairman's motion before the House today, especially given the sterling service that our further and higher education establishments have provided through the years. In my constituency, the Southern Regional College is a treasured local provider across a number of sites. I know that, from my time in Armagh council, we were very aware of the achievements, commitment and determination of the FE sector to continue to grow.

When one considers that three out of every four students who enter the FE sector gain a full qualification, it is clear that the structures and systems in place across our complement of providers are working and ensuring that our students are attaining and advancing. That is very positive for our economic growth.

We have heard many very positive job announcements in recent times, led by our hardworking Enterprise, Trade and Investment Minister. When a company spokesperson is asked, "Why Northern Ireland?", the response has been consistent, "Because our workforce has the skill sets required, the knowledge and the experience." Do not underestimate the power of that message in unlocking yet further opportunities in attracting further inward investment. That being said, there is obviously a great importance attached to maintaining such a solid reputation. Our economic recovery and the need to continue to grow our economy is firmly attached to the performance and resources available to our further and higher education sector, which can underpin our future economic stability.

To further illustrate the contribution of our universities and FE colleges, it is interesting and encouraging to note that the knowledge economy index ranks the region of Northern Ireland with the second highest knowledge growth in the UK. Take the amazing research being undertaken at Queen's, which has been consistently ranked world leading, with 76% of work either three or four star in its value. Those statistics are hard fought and represent a massive commitment by our students and staff, who continually strive to achieve ever higher standards. The key to the success of our further and higher education providers also lies in maintaining the very broad diversity of curriculum that is offered. That enables a wide variety of interests and skills to be developed. Many of our institutions maintain very close links with local businesses and industries, enabling our colleges and universities to better respond in their provision of bespoke training and skills development to match the ever-developing world in which we live.

The current exercise on the reorganisation of Executive Departments will be an important piece of work for ensuring that cross-cutting roles and responsibilities are effectively brought under the jurisdiction and responsibility of one new Department. Having key DETI and DEL functions combined in a new Department will, I feel, assist in focusing attention on issues and areas of greatest need. Whilst there is a lot of work still to do on any such proposal, it should hopefully lead to significant and positive changes. In the meantime, there remains a need to support our further and higher education sector, and, as contributors have already pointed out, the knock-on effects of maintaining a top-level complement of colleges and universities will ensure that we continue to grow our economy and attract quality inward investment. I support the motion.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I support the motion and the amendment. The Chair reflected very well the Committee's position in our discussions since the Budget.

Given their importance to every city and village in Northern Ireland, I welcome the motion's focus on higher and further education, because they are the key to economic regeneration. However, they must complement each another if we are to have a strong pool of diverse and skilled workers, particularly among our young people. Day to day, we hear of many more young people forced to go across the water, while many more are forced to emigrate to either Australia or New Zealand. The Executive need to do more to make Northern Ireland a much more attractive place for them to live, study, work and bring up a family, even without a Programme for Government for 2015-16.

We had a fairly healthy discussion last week when the Confucius Institute came before our Committee. The level of investment that China is making in higher education is making it the predominant force across the world at the present time. It is investing billions of pounds in universities and, more importantly, in research departments. As a result, the Chinese universities are accelerating up the league tables when it comes to students and academia. China is clearly emerging as a leading economy.

Our further education colleges, universities and teacher-training colleges are facing cuts that threaten their existence. The amendment is timely, and I encourage the Minister to have a change of heart on the issue. The removal of the premia payments is hurting a lot of people who work in the college or who are educated at St Mary's or Stranmillis. Genuinely, Minister, there is no appetite, political or otherwise, for your plans to be brought forward. As Jim Allister said, the premia payments are crucial to the viability of both colleges. You have to come to a bit of sense and realise that that is not what the people of Northern Ireland want.

Some 90,000 students are studying an economically relevant further education curriculum via the flexible approach of Colleges Northern Ireland, which states that 70% of those students are entering employment. Therefore, the colleges are serving their purpose of helping to retrain and reskill, and, for many of the young people who possibly have not done so well at post-primary school, the colleges are filling the vacuum. As the Chair said, the colleges work collaboratively with the business community and industry to try to meet their needs.

More than one in five learners is studying entry level 1 on enrolment at an FE college. Those learners have no prior basic qualifications. Are we to remove that provision? There is concern across the colleges, and I am sure that all Members have been spoken to and have heard concern expressed about the detrimental effect that the removal of the premia payments could have, particularly when one of the key areas on which the Employment and Learning Committee focused was young people not in education, employment or training. That will have a detrimental effect on progression, and it ultimately led to the Executive's NEET strategy, which will now fail unless adequate money is given to our colleges. Almost one in two students — 43% across the North, 50% at the North West Regional College, and 54% at the South West College — are in the most deprived areas of Northern Ireland. The college network and the Ulster University respond to the need and the changing needs of industry.

I have a few minutes left. I heard the Minister on Radio Foyle this morning speaking about the Magee campus. It is important that, when economic regeneration occurs in the major cities, such as Belfast in particular, we have regional balance. The biggest project coming out of the One Plan — Minister, you know what it was — was the development of the Magee campus. I think it is important that the north-west — not the constituency — has its turn. It is an important motion and something that has concerned the Committee for some time. We have helped showcase —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is almost up.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

— champion and advocate in events as well as in this House. It is important that the Minister and Executive be mindful of our concerns through this motion.

Anna Lo (Alliance, Belfast South)

I support the motion but oppose the amendment. The Programme for Government's top priority is to expand our economy. Corporation tax varying power is coming down the line in two to three years to attract more foreign investment and boost our local businesses. Invest NI has shown a record level of inward investment over the last two years. Clearly, we are seeing steady growth in our economy.

We realised a long time ago that we can no longer compete with other countries, such as China or India, in manufacturing goods dependent on cheaper labour. We have therefore adapted and moved to a knowledge-based economy: Northern Ireland is the region with the second fastest growing knowledge economy in the UK in recent years, according to the knowledge economy index. A knowledge-based economy needs a highly educated, creative and skilled workforce, capable of reacting to new ideas and challenges in a fast-changing world. Foreign investors are not just attracted by subsidies or low taxation offered by government; they want staff with the right know-how and ambition for success.

Our three universities — Queen's, Ulster University and the Open University — are excellent institutions, providing quality tuition to undergraduates and postgraduates. Their research outcomes are also recognised in the recent Research Excellence Framework 2014. The universities have a proven track record of strong partnerships with local business and industry, enabling them to innovate and improve performance for increased profitability. Research and development in higher education has led to many spin-out companies, generating thousands of high-value jobs.

The six further education colleges offer a wide range of vocational and other courses for our young people to become skilled employees in many different fields. They also have strong links with local firms and are sensitive to gaps and new trends in the job market, as the Environment Committee saw during a visit to the environmental skills centre in the South Eastern Regional College. It is imperative that we provide adequate funding for further and higher education to ensure that our workforce has the knowledge, skills and confidence to meet the demands of a growing economy. Funding cuts to HE and FE are short-sighted and have dire consequences for the vision of a vibrant and progressive economy. Fewer FE and HE places will mean a smaller workforce capable of high-end jobs. Those who cannot get a third-level place will leave our shores, which will only serve to escalate the decades long brain drain of our brightest students, who could have remained here if we had cared to invest in them.

For many, it may mean the end of their hopes and ambitions for third-level education. Investing in higher education and training must be a top priority for the Executive, not just to enhance the economy but to enhance young people's life chances.

The amendment is similar to last week's Adjournment debate. Our current system for teacher training is fragmented and not cost-effective. We are producing too many teachers who will not find teaching posts in Northern Ireland. Therefore we only educate and export them elsewhere. The premia act as a subsidy to the teacher training colleges in recognition of their smaller size. It is hard to justify that at the best of times, but certainly not in times of pressures on budgets, when university and college places are in jeopardy.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

Like others, I support the motion. I will take cognisance of the amendment as the debate progresses. It is a fairly generic motion and wide-ranging through the sector, and it should receive wide support across the Benches. I doubt if there are many Members who would not acknowledge the key role that our further and higher education institutions play in growing the local economy and, more importantly, delivering on the Programme for Government and its cross-cutting priorities.

I declare an interest as part of the management of the Michael Hughes Academy, which, in partnership with the Northern Regional College, delivers a sports/academic initiative with the Newtownabbey campus. Indeed, it is when you sit down locally to discuss the various projects and local initiatives that you are given a flavour of the challenges facing those in the sector who are responsible for the front-line delivery, from staff contractual issues through to overly cumbersome procurement matters.

The motion comes with a backdrop of a substantial budget reduction, although it is a little better than the original 10·8% that was initially expected, thanks to the recent budgetary settlement that was reached after intense negotiations. Nonetheless, I acknowledge the difficulties faced by Minister Farry, the Department and those in the structural pyramid who are responsible for delivery in the further and higher education sector. I further acknowledge steps taken by the Minister which will, hopefully, reduce the impact and, potentially, safeguard the success of further and higher education in Northern Ireland, and I support those establishments as, collectively, we attempt to grow a sustainable economy in line with the cross-cutting priorities contained in the Programme for Government. Therefore it is with a great deal of interest and anticipation that, as the Chair said, we look forward to the attendance of the Minister at tomorrow's meeting of the Employment and Learning Committee to get a better grasp of his overview of the landscape.

As 2014 drew to a close and the extent of the budgetary pressures facing the Department in particular, and the Executive in general, became clearer, a lobby began with the Committee, mainly involving the higher education institutions. Serious conversations took place regarding funding, which, I believe, must be extended to all stakeholders as we look for long-term solutions in an attempt to close the significant funding gap in the sector in Northern Ireland, compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. I feel the institutions have more to bring to the table, other than the bland message we received on one occasion: "Reinstate the funding, or the student fees rocket."

I fully appreciate the role that higher education has played in working with Invest NI in attracting foreign investment and in the successful period of job creation that there has been over the past two years, coupled with the many spin-out companies that have helped support local business and industry. I also appreciate the planned capital developments over the next decade, which will create thousands of construction jobs. Sustainability of the sector lies with all stakeholders.

I welcome the recent response paper from Colleges Northern Ireland, which gives an overview of the further education sector in the Province and the important role that it plays in supporting local business and industry. Further to that, colleges provide crucial support to local schools and communities, helping to tackle social deprivation, the NEET category and the key area of STEM. Some 43% of students are from the most deprived areas, yet high percentages of retention and achievement rates are obtained. For many, further education is a lifeline. It gives them a second chance of achievement, plays a crucial role in their intellectual lives and gives them opportunities to engage socially, economically and culturally.

The development of the soft skills is also important, and the sector can play its part. While the emphasis is on passing exams and graduating, training in the soft skills of the workplace is also necessary. Timekeeping, behaviour, attitude and simply dealing with other people can sometimes be a struggle.I know that the Department is also keen to deal with that.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I thank the Member for giving way. I understand that there has been some consideration by all parties of the premia to St Mary's University College and Stranmillis University College in Sinn Féin's amendment. Will the Member indicate the DUP's intentions when it comes to the amendment in support of the reinstatement of the premia, which would extend to Stranmillis University College?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member has an additional minute.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for his intervention. I think that we will look favourably on that.

It is crucial that the Executive affirm their support for the sectors to place Northern Ireland to the fore and give it a competitive edge. I support the motion and the amendment.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Beidh mise ag tacú leis an rún agus leis an leasú. I support the motion and the amendment. It is very important in the lives of our young people that they have the opportunity to partake of third-level education and improve their life-learning opportunities here in the North. We want to ensure that those establishments remain and that we give them our full support so that young people and mature students have the opportunity to be educated locally and do not have to go away from home or go into low-grade employment without having had the advantage of third-level education.

I also wish to call for the reinstatement of the premia for St Mary's and Stranmillis. That is very important, because these smaller university colleges are unique: they provide very specific education and training opportunities for people here across the North, not just Belfast. It is important for their local economies, which have a wider impact, that they remain as a vibrant part of those communities. It would be the death knell for those communities should the premia be removed and those circumstances bring about the ultimate downfall and closure of the colleges. That is the context in which I place my remarks.

I want to put a wee bit of emphasis on the particular role of St Mary's in the provision of Irish-medium education. It is unique in that regard, and it would not be wrong to say that the Irish-medium sector's strength today is because of the role that St Mary's has played in providing excellent teachers for that sector. St Mary's has provided lots of unique projects over the years to the Irish-medium sector and in pursuit of other educational outcomes that are not limited to the Irish medium. That is very important, and I would like to emphasise that and place great importance on the fact that St Mary's offers unique provision in that regard. It is also located in the Gaeltacht quarter, which is a vibrant part of west Belfast. Also, an tÁisionad, which is an establishment that provides resources and books for the Irish-medium sector and schoolchildren, is located in St Mary's.

I want to emphasise the fact that we have two establishments here: St Mary's in west Belfast provides for that community and is a vibrant part of the linguistic, cultural, social and economic role of that community; and, likewise, Stranmillis plays a vibrant and essential role in the south Belfast community. I call again on the Minister to rethink his decision to withdraw the premia.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for giving way. I have listened intently to her contribution. Does she accept that the teacher training institutions need to provide on a regional basis for everyone in Northern Ireland? Does she also accept that, as the independent report set out, there is a need for reform and that the status quo is not an option? What are Sinn Féin's alternative proposals for reform?

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member has an additional minute.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I accept that our teacher training provision is for everybody across the North: it is not just for one community. The Irish-medium sector, which I have been talking about, provides for Irish-medium education across the North and beyond.

The university colleges are more than just establishments: they are part of the community and provide essential services. They are the heartbeats of their communities, particularly St Mary's, which plays a vital role in the social, economic, linguistic and cultural fabric of the community. Likewise, Stranmillis plays a similar role in the south Belfast community.

It is not just about what those two establishments provide in education. Education is important and is their primary reason for existing, but it is much more than that. It is about being part of, providing for and being central to the community so that young people who attend those establishments benefit not just from the establishments but from the richness and vibrancy of the communities. In turn, those young people give back to those communities, so it is a two-way street and is not just about one aspect. There are many aspects to education and to the provision of third-level education, and I emphasise the role of local communities in third-level education.

Sydney Anderson (DUP, Upper Bann)

As a recently reappointed member of the Committee for Employment and Learning, I support the motion. In 2007, when devolution was established, I was delighted that the economy had been placed at the heart of the Programme for Government. That remains the position in the current 2011-15 Programme for Government.

The economy is the key to progress as we continue to seek to move Northern Ireland forward. In recent years, despite serious world economic downturns that have inevitably affected us all, we have made significant progress in our economic growth. One of the essential ingredients in any plan to deliver sustained and deep economic growth is education, particularly third-level education. We must not underestimate the crucial role of the local further and higher education sector in producing the well-educated and highly skilled workforce that we need.

We are often accused of being stuck in the past, but sometimes it is useful to glance back. During the dark years of the Troubles, when our society suffered so greatly from terrorism, our economic infrastructure was seriously damaged, and we lost many of our brightest and most capable young people. Once they left school, they left Northern Ireland to study in universities and colleges in the rest of the United Kingdom or in the Irish Republic. Many of them got jobs outside Northern Ireland, settled down and never came back. For too long, we endured what became known as the "brain drain". In more recent years, that haemorrhaging has been reduced — perhaps even reversed — but we have to be very careful to ensure that it does not return with a vengeance.

Priority 1 of the Programme for Government addresses economic growth and the need to achieve long-term economic growth by improving competitiveness and building a larger and more export-driven private sector. The Programme for Government states:

"we must rebuild the labour market in the wake of the global economic downturn and rebalance the economy".

If we are to meet that central target and rebalance the economy by reducing the public sector and developing our business base, it is imperative that we have a properly educated and skilled local workforce. Indeed, priority 1 refers specifically to the need for a better, more highly skilled, competent and confident workforce. One of the first questions foreign companies ask when assessing their investment options is: "What sort of existing workforce is there in that location?" or "Is there a pool of skills that we need?"

During the Budget planning and consultation process towards the end of last year, I became very alarmed by some of the dire warnings about cuts in third-level education coming from the Minister for Employment and Learning. I raised it with him during questions for oral answer on 20 November when he said that he, too, was concerned but that it was due to the cuts in his departmental budget. I am glad that my colleague the Finance Minister was able to announce that the Department for Employment and Learning will now receive an extra £33 million to develop the skills that are vital to our workforce.

The winds of change have had a big impact on our further and higher education sector. However, I have been impressed by the way in which the sector has adapted to changing needs and financial pressures. I am in favour of diversity in the curriculum, which will offer a broad range of subjects at undergraduate and postgraduate levels. However, in times of financial pressure and to meet the demands of business, we must focus our efforts on key subjects such as the STEM subjects, law and modern languages.

Having met representatives of the further and higher education sector and considered briefing papers submitted to the Committee, I am impressed with the strategic vision of our colleges and universities. I want to see that develop and grow. I want to see more of our local young people studying in Northern Ireland, getting good secure jobs in Northern Ireland, and staying in Northern Ireland. I urge the Minister to make full use of the extra money now available to him by investing wisely and well in further education and higher education. However, as the motion alludes to, this issue is bigger than the Minister and the Department. The Executive as a whole must rise to the challenge.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

I apologise to the House for not being here for all of the debate. Mr Anderson referred to the past. I and other people were down at the High Court in Belfast where the families of the victims of the Glenanne killings, of which there were over 100, had a hearing in respect of a judicial review. So, I apologise for missing much of the debate.

It is curious that the motion from the Committee refers to:

"the key role our further education and higher education institutions play in growing the local economy and delivering on the Programme for Government's cross-cutting priorities".

Sometimes, debates on higher and further education are somehow reduced to the issue of the skills necessary to grow our economy. That is going to become pretty acute in the event that our Government go over the wall in respect of corporation tax and do not do it on the right terms, of which there is a real risk. More immediately, the cuts that the Tories in our Government have imposed on HE and FE provision and Departments here will have an impact on growing the local economy and cross-cutting priorities. Nowhere is that more true than in an area of disadvantage on the Falls Road, given the potential impact of reductions of the scale that has been proposed by the Minister, part of which is the result of the Tory Budget that the Executive pushed through a couple of weeks ago but most of which is a result of what the Minister has been proposing. The consequence for growing the local economy on the Falls Road, and for that local community in respect of cross-cutting priorities, will be catastrophic.

It has been estimated that, if the Government push on with the proposal to make up to 20,000 people redundant as part of the voluntary exit scheme (VES) that might be a consequence of the Stormont House Agreement, the consequence will be a further loss of 20,000 or 40,000 jobs because of the multiplier effect of the loss of public-sector employment. That is why we need to be very vigilant that, if VES is rolled out, it is rolled out on the right basis and subject to the right principles. However, if the Minister's decision and the DUP and Sinn Féin's decision when it comes to the Budget are rolled out, that will have immense consequences for the local economy in west Belfast and for cross-cutting priorities beyond the consequences for St Mary's college and its staff. The multiplier effect of cutting staff and students in an area of need and disadvantage is going to be immense. Indeed, it will be compounded by the fact that it is an area of disadvantage.

Secondly, whatever the ethos of St Mary's, and I welcome the Minister saying that he wants to protect it, part of that ethos is the fact that St Mary's University College is a centre of excellence for the Irish language and for Irish teaching, as well as being an open and inclusive college for all other traditions and viewpoints in this part of the world. When we are meant to be promoting equality and parity of esteem, the proposed cuts will consequently have a disproportionate impact on the Irish language, culture, teaching and sports at the centre of excellence that is St Mary's College.

I ask the Minister this: when he says that St Mary's should sustain its student numbers through its reserves, is that the principle that he has urged upon other FE and HE institutions in Northern Ireland that are subject to his and DUP/Sinn Féin cuts? Are they also being urged to rely on their reserves? If so, I would like to know how that is working through for the Ulster University, which, I understand — whether rightly or wrongly — has an issue about reserves, given the proposed move to York Street.

I say to the Minister, as I said to him on the last day, the three principles of resolution around the issue of St Mary's are: first, the legal autonomy of the college; secondly, its financial autonomy; and, thirdly —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is almost up.

Alex Attwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast West)

— the protection of all its diverse ethos. That is the way through this, and if the Minister applies his mind to that, we will find a way through.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

My colleague and Chair of the Committee Mr Swann has outlined in some detail the impact and importance of higher and further education to our economy, and let us remind ourselves that this debate is about growing the local economy.

There has been some welcome focus of late on corporation tax. The House needs no further reminder that this was an Ulster Unionist proposal. It was our idea that the Assembly should have the power to set a corporation tax rate for Northern Ireland, as a key policy lever for rebalancing our economy. It was, however, never going to be a silver bullet. Corporation tax rates alone are not the fix that will grow the private sector; rather, a basket of measures is required. Every economist I listen to says that there are two major issues that we need to address: one is the lack of A-grade office accommodation; the other, and bigger, issue is the skills base of our workforce. If we get those right, the economy will prosper. In fact, get those right and we will not even need to match, never mind beat, the Republic's corporation tax rate. With the right skills and other factors that investors seek, we need lower corporation tax only to the point where the differential is no longer an issue to potential investors.

Empowering our young people with the right knowledge and skills is the key. Yet, as many, including Ulster Bank's chief economist, Richard Ramsey, pointed out recently, since 2012, Northern Ireland's youth unemployment rate has consistently been above 20% — more than one in five — and the unemployment rate for the 18-24 cohort is likely to remain close to 20% throughout 2015. That is a failure, a grave and serious failure. It is a failure of our young people and a failure of our commitment to keep the economy front and centre of all that we do. That is why the Ulster Unionist Party was so critical of the draft Budget 2015-16 when it was proposed in December.

In the draft Budget, there was to have been a reduction of 10·8% to the Department for Employment and Learning in the financial year ahead. With around 70% of the Department's budget going to the further and higher education sector, the devastating effect on universities and regional FE colleges was obvious. The much quoted figure was that 1,000 university places were to be lost and that 16,000 FE places were under threat. One thousand five hundred and sixty people responded to the Budget consultation, and concerns were raised about its effects on FE and HE. To some extent, the revised Budget has improved the situation, in that an extra £20 million has been allocated to DEL, in recognition of the importance of our economy having a skilled workforce. However, the Department for Employment and Learning still faces a 6·4% reduction in its non-ring-fenced resource departmental expenditure limit. Perhaps the Minister will update the House on the revised Budget's effect on his ability to fund further and higher education.

In responding to the consultation on the Budget, the Ulster Unionist Party said that, in the context of rebalancing the economy, targeting FDI and growing the private sector while slashing training and skills is counter-intuitive and counterproductive. It creates a fundamental contradiction at the heart of the draft Budget for 2015-16 and should add impetus to the need to create a single, joined-up Department of the economy. It has long been the policy of the Ulster Unionist Party that there should be one, joined-up Department for the economy. Indeed, it was a recommendation some six years ago by the independent review of economic policy, but that recommendation was not acted on. On the bright side, recent announcements on the reconfiguration of Departments following the Stormont House Agreement seem to suggest that it is finally being taken forward.

In conclusion, on the motion, I believe that the Executive must determine whether they still wish to produce the highly skilled workforce that Northern Ireland needs if it is to take advantage of foreign direct investment and the anticipated and much-needed expansion of our private sector.

On the amendment, the Ulster Unionist Party has said that it will not be obstructive to change and the rationalisation of teacher-training provision in Northern Ireland as long as it is done on a fair and equitable basis. Both St Mary's and Stranmillis must be treated fairly and equitably. Therefore, although we are critical of the party that brought forward the amendment, and perhaps even question its motives —

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

The Member's time is almost up.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

— we will not seek to divide the House by rejecting it.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

Question Time begins at 2.00 pm, so I suggest that the House take its ease until then. The debate will continue after Question Time, when the next Member called to speak will be Mr Jim Allister.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

We will start with listed questions.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

1. Mr Elliott asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the process for providing feedback to applicants for the social investment fund. (AQO 7448/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle — Mr Speaker — I will ask junior Minister McCann to answer that question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

In keeping with the community-based ethos of the social investment fund (SIF), zonal steering groups made the final decisions on projects that were selected for their area plans. Individuals or groups who were involved in concepts that did not make it into the area plans were advised at the time by the consultants who were appointed to support the steering groups or by the steering groups themselves.

The area plans were submitted in February 2013. When the zonal allocations were subsequently announced, the steering groups were asked to prioritise their area plan projects within their assigned budgets. That process was completed by November 2013, and it was the responsibility of the steering groups to inform those involved of the decisions. If some individuals or groups have indicated that they have not been informed, they should contact their respective steering group, details of which are available on the OFMDFM website. Details of the chosen projects are also available on the OFMDFM website.

Tom Elliott (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the junior Minister for that. Has the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister no responsibility to inform those behind the early projects that did not progress in the scheme? Was it entirely up to the steering groups or the consultants?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will know that, from its initial stages, the social investment fund was always led by the community and statutory organisations that designed it from the bottom up. There is a SIF board, and it was primarily responsible for informing those community-based projects whether they were successful. So, it was really up to the steering groups to inform them, rather than OFMDFM.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

Is there a timeline for the groups that have been allocated funding to be issued with letters of offer? What is the process for that?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will know that 23 letters of offer were issued last year and that that went up to 24. A further nine projects were approved on, I think, 20 January and letters of offer for four of those projects have gone out. When a project is approved, we try to get the letters of offer out as quickly as possible to progress the whole project in the sense of the money and everything else. So, while there may not be a dedicated timeline as such, we try to do that, but it all has to be part of the process. That is the way the process has to evolve.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Does the Minister accept that the level of information that flowed from the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister made it extremely difficult for the area steering groups to update applicants about the scheme? I declare an interest as a member of an area steering group.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

If there have been difficulties and problems, I give the Member a commitment that I will look into that.

The initial announcement of the approved projects was in February 2014. Once the economic appraisal is completed and the project is approved, we get the letter of offer out as quickly as possible. However, there is a point when it comes to the actual SIF steering group that the Member has said he is a member of — I have some knowledge of the steering group in my area — and the onus is on that group to inform the local projects that are part of the bigger project.

I take on board what you said, and I will certainly look into it. If there have been issues, I will certainly talk to the Member outside Question Time.

Bronwyn McGahan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. What is the Minister's view on the tabling of an amendment to the motion on the Budget last week by the Ulster Unionist Party, which effectively would have seen finance to the social investment fund reduced?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I was somewhat dismayed by the Ulster Unionist amendment to the Budget motion because it effectively sought to take money from the social investment fund — a fund that will ensure, at a very grass-roots community level, a realisation of area plans that local steering groups deemed appropriate and prioritised according to need in their zone. It is the right thing to do — we have talked about it in the Assembly on numerous occasions — to work with communities and in partnership with communities, and in this case the steering groups, to ensure that we get these projects right and maximise the impact that they have. However, the main point is that these projects were designed and chosen from the community up, and it is essential that we listen to what the local community needs. Indeed, it is only the people who live and work in those areas and have a stakeholder sense of those areas who know what they need. In my opinion, we should listen to what the community needs. I was quite dismayed when that amendment came forward.

Colum Eastwood (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. Given the recent proposals on the reduction of Departments and the rejigging of the Executive, are there any plans to move the social investment fund to a Department that many people felt it should have been in before — a Department that has direct responsibility for disadvantage in our communities?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

No, there are no plans in the first instance. However, the social investment fund and the area plans never worked in isolation of other community-based planning that was already there, including neighbourhood renewal. I know that some of the neighbourhood renewal partnerships worked very closely on the steering groups and vice versa, so I think that there was already a joined-up sense of it when the social investment fund was initiated and designed. I think that that continues to be the case. As I said, community planning has to come from the people who live and work in those communities and who have a stake in those communities. It cannot be something that is put down from the top to tell people what they need. People in those communities need to choose and bring forward projects and proposals, and I think that all those other community planning groups and boards are already interlinked.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I inform Members that question 3 has been withdrawn within the appropriate time frame.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

2. Mr Ó Muilleoir asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline their response to the United Nations Refugee Agency's recent appeal for the developed world to take in Syrian refugees. (AQO 7449/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The situation in Syria has become one of the greatest humanitarian challenges of our time. Despite very significant humanitarian contributions from the international community, the pressure of over three million refugees is taking its toll on Syria's neighbours. Those pressures are severely damaging the quality of life for ordinary people. While resettlement could never help as many as aid has, we recognise the need, in common humanity, for us to explore what we can do to make a difference for the most vulnerable. Accordingly, we are engaged in exploratory discussions with the Home Office, other devolved Administrations, other Departments and relevant non-governmental organisations about whether we can play a role. I feel that we should respond positively to the call for help by the United Nations Refugee Agency. Germany has offered 30,000 places, and the Irish Government have committed 300 places. Sadly, the Government in London have not yet committed to taking refugees, but I note that Scotland is appealing to them to allow refugees to come there, and I feel that we should do likewise. In such circumstances, we would, of course, speak to the British Government about funding for such an initiative.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Go raibh agat, a LeasChéad Aire, as an fhreagra sin a thabhairt dúinn. Tá éigeandáil ar leith ag gabháil ar aghaidh sa tSiria, agus is gá freagra a thabhairt uirthi. It is appropriate to say that the racial equality unit in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister has done great work in this regard. It would be great to get a breakthrough. Does the deputy First Minister agree that the benefits to Belfast, certainly to the North, of taking refugees would be considerable and that it would be a blessing to Belfast to be able to take in refugees from Syria? Of course, it would be a lifeline to those in greatest need in the refugee camps.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat. The Member and Reverend Bill Shaw have written to the First Minister and me about the catastrophic situation in Syria and how we here in the North can hold out the hand of support to people who are going through incredible trauma. According to United Nations figures, between 190,000 and maybe even more than 200,000 people have been killed in Syria as a result of the conflict.

I unreservedly condemn the murder of two Japanese citizens by ISIS over recent days and send our sympathy to the Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe. Of course, these situations are highlighted as individual tragedies for families. The effect of all of that is seen all over the world, but when you look at the figure of something like 200,000 Syrians who have lost their lives, it really brings home how terrible the situation is in that country. The fact is that other nations are exploring the possibility of bringing in people who have been affected badly by the ongoing conflict in Syria. It is important that we here in the North, if at all possible, make our own particular contribution. That would send out a very powerful message about where our sympathies lie in how that terrible conflict has affected ordinary people.

Pat Ramsey (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I welcome the question from the Member for South Belfast. Given that the deputy First Minister gave very stark figures in his responses, and given the ever-increasing persecution of Christians especially, has there been any discussion with the London Government or the Dublin Government to ensure that we have the capacity to take that leadership role in encouraging and motivating those refugees to come here?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The discussions thus far have taken place in the context of the original question. Discussions are taking place between our officials, the Government in London and other devolved institutions. It is very important that we do so. It is also very important that we understand that there are almost two conflicts happening in Syria: the internal Syrian conflict, which has taken something like 200,000 lives; and the activities of the barbarous group ISIS, which has been targeting people because they have not signed up to its jihadist extremism. Of course, a lot of Christians and people of other denominations in Syria have lost their lives at the hands of that group.

It is an enormously complicated situation. My view is that a lot of what we are witnessing had its roots in the invasion of Iraq. I think that all who studied the conflict have now come to acknowledge that it is at the core of the traumas that people are suffering, particularly at the hands of ISIS and its activities in Iraq and Syria. Those discussions will continue. We do not have any delusions of grandeur about how we can make an impact. If we can do something, it will be symbolic, but I think that it is important, through a symbolic gesture, to send a message to the rest of the world that the rest of the world also needs to do something.

David McIlveen (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the deputy First Minister for his answers so far. I also welcome his condemnation of the murders of two hostages by ISIS in Syria. Also, at the tail end of last week, two other murders took place in Syria. Two Israeli soldiers were murdered by Hezbollah in the southern part of Syria. Will the deputy First Minister join me in also condemning the murders of those two Israeli soldiers?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Over the last number of years, the First Minister and I have been very focused in our conversations with people from another conflict situation in a different part of that region. We have always been of a view that the conflict there should be brought to an end and that the solutions can be arrived at only through dialogue and negotiation. I absolutely condemn the killing of Palestinians and the killing of Israelis. I think that it is hugely important that all of us, particularly those of us who have been through a successful peace process in bringing an end to conflict on our streets, reach out to people and implore them to recognise that they can either resolve their conflicts now or wait for 10, 15, 20 or 50 years, during which time many hundreds of thousands of people could be killed. We can all engage in the condemnation of all that, but that will not resolve the problems. What will resolve the problems is the willingness of people to come to the negotiating table and the willingness of the big powers to play their part in a constructive way to help to bring these conflicts to an end.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

4. Mr Buchanan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the work to reduce the number of Executive Departments prior to the next Assembly elections in 2016. (AQO 7451/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The reduction in the number of Executive Departments from 12 to nine in time for the 2016 Assembly election is a commitment in the Stormont House Agreement. Subsequently, the Executive agreed to commit to implementing the measures in the Stormont House Agreement at their meeting on 15 January. A proposed nine-Department structure was presented to the Executive on 15 January, and a further discussion was held on 22 January, when the Executive agreed the number of Departments and their functions. The only exception to this were the functions of OFMDFM, which will be the subject of further consideration. Further detailed work on the functions allocated to each Department can be carried out whilst working through the legislative process. The timetable for the implementation of the reduction in Departments is extremely challenging. That is why we have taken key decisions as early as possible to allow as much time as possible for legislation to be progressed and for the proper planning and implementation of this major change programme. We must not underestimate the challenge that is ahead. We are trying to implement significant reform at a time when we are reducing the size of the Civil Service. That said, it also presents us with a huge opportunity to streamline the Civil Service and create better cohesion between and within Departments, resulting in quality key services being provided to citizens.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

With the streamlining of the Civil Service and the reduction in the number of Departments, does the deputy First Minister agree that there is still time between now and the election in 2016 to reduce the number of Assembly Members? Is he willing and does he have the appetite to take this through the Executive?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I think that the Member will be aware that there is a commitment in the Stormont House Agreement for a reduction in the number of Assembly Members for the election in 2021. I think that, during the Stormont House negotiations, some parties wanted that to happen more quickly than others. During negotiations, it was important to try to get as much agreement as possible so that that issue would not become a matter of contention between us.

So, the Stormont House Agreement does refer to the challenge that is before the parties in the House in terms of meeting that commitment. My sense of it is that, given the spirit that has been apparent in the implementation meetings that the First Minister and I have participated in with other party leaders, it is obvious that all of that is eminently achievable.

Ian Milne (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. What steps are being taken to ensure that the concerns of staff are addressed as the process moves on?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That is a very important matter, because the impact on staff has been an integral factor of the work to date. The head of the Civil Service is keeping staff regularly informed and trade unions have also been consulted. That engagement will continue in the time ahead. While we understand that there may be some apprehension, particularly among staff within those Departments that will cease to exist, I would like to reassure them that the very valuable public services and functions that they deliver will continue and that every effort will be made to address any concerns that may emerge as the process continues.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Welcome as any reduction in the number of Departments would be, what about OFMDFM addressing the squander in its own Department on the excessive number of special advisers? The entire Welsh Government have eight special advisers. OFMDFM has eight special advisers, costing us almost £1 million a year. What is the need for that? Will that be addressed by means of reduction?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Obviously, as a result of the decision to reduce the number of Departments from 12 to nine, we are all undergoing a process of change. In the context of resolving the situation within OFMDFM in terms of what functions it retains or lets go of — which will obviously be more complicated — that is something that will obviously be taken into consideration by the First Minister and me.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an LeasChéad Aire as a fhreagraí go dtí seo. Ba mhaith liom ceist a chur: an féidir leis an Aire a chruthú dúinn a bhfuil moltaí dá réir aige i dtaobh comhoibrú Thuaidh/Theas? In regard to the recent Stormont House talks, what further issues or new issues around North/South cooperation does the Minister have in mind for the next agenda of the North/South Ministerial Council?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I think the Member, like all Members, will be aware that the issue of North/South cooperation was a major subject of debate during the Stormont House negotiations. We have set ourselves a work programme, which is about agreeing, for the purposes of the next meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council, how that will be further developed in the time ahead. So, I am confident that, when the North/South Ministerial Council meeting takes place in a few months' time, it will deal with the work programme that will fall at its door as a result of the negotiations that we were involved in prior to Christmas.

The challenges are there for all of us to see. The head of the Civil Service in the South and the head of our Civil Service are very focused and are working together on an ongoing basis to ensure that we continue to develop relationships North and South. One area that there has been a lot of focus on is the north-west gateway and the decision that was made that there will shortly be a meeting of Ministers North and South to consider how to take forward what is a very important project for all of us.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

What discussions has the deputy First Minister had with the First Minister with regard to the future of OFMDFM and, in particular, with its ceasing to be a service delivery Department and becoming one that adopts a more coordinating approach?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The matters that the Member referred to are presently under discussion between us in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. I believe that they will be satisfactorily resolved, and that we will see a very smooth transition through the agreements that we have made in relation to, first and foremost, reduction in the number of Departments and, secondly, their functions.

Obviously, OFMDFM was always going to be a wee bit more complicated than the other Departments, but I do not see anything that will, in any way, prevent us from reaching an agreement as to how we will move forward. Of course, subjects under consideration include: whether functions will be retained; whether some functions will go to other Departments; and what the overall role of the Office of First Minister and deputy First Minister will be in relation to how we take all that forward. That is still a work in progress, and I believe that, as we were successful during the Stormont House negotiations, we will be equally successful in the implementation of all this.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Mr Oliver McMullan is not in his place for question 5, Mr Sammy Wilson for question 6 or Mr Stewart Dickson for question 7.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

8. Mr Nesbitt asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the restructuring of Executive Departments. (AQO 7455/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As I mentioned in answer to question 4, the reduction in the number of Civil Service Departments is a commitment in the Stormont House Agreement, the implementation of which has since been agreed by the Executive. A proposed nine-Department structure was presented to the Executive on 15 January, and on 22 January the Executive agreed the number of Departments and their functions. The only exception to that is the functions of OFMDFM, which will be the subject of further consideration. Further detailed work on the functions allocated to each Department can be carried out whilst working through the legislative process. So we must not underestimate the challenge ahead, including a demanding timetable and the fact that this significant reform comes at a time when we are also reducing the size of the Civil Service. That said, it is also a huge opportunity to streamline and create better cohesion between and within Departments.

I am very conscious that I have just repeated myself.

[Interruption.]

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I missed that last bit.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am very conscious that I have just repeated my answer to the earlier question.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

At the risk of further repetition, I acknowledge the deputy First Minister's comments to date, not least on the future of OFMDFM which, I acknowledge, is under further consideration, apart from the other restructuring. Having worked in the Department since 2007 and having been down at the castle for that time, the Minister must have formed some sort of opinion on the way forward. I wonder whether he would be prepared to share that with the House.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The most appropriate mechanism for taking this forward is to share my views and thoughts with the First Minister and, similarly, he with me. We do that on a regular basis. Obviously, the challenge is for us to agree how this Department will be taken forward. There are big challenges, but I believe that we will arrive at a satisfactory conclusion.

Out of respect for the implementation group — the ministerial subgroup that we established, and which the Member is part of — it is very important that, rather than go public on how we envisage that being taken forward, we do this in concert with our colleagues in the ministerial subgroup, and that includes the Member who has just spoken. So I think that, out of respect for that group, it is important that, when we reach a conclusion, it is apprised of it before the public are.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat. I ask the Minister to provide an update on the deliberations regarding what OFMDFM functions can be dispersed to other Departments.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That sounds like an attempt to complement the earlier question from the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party. Members know that there are sensitive and cross-cutting matters within OFMDFM's area of responsibilities. The answer is that more consideration must be given to the appropriate split of functions to ensure that the optimum service is provided to the public.

As I said, discussions are ongoing, and Ministers have had the opportunity to review and comment on OFMDFM's functions. We intend to bring a paper to the Executive soon, articulating in more detail the proposed future responsibilities of our Department. For the time being, that is as much as we can put into the public domain.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

That ends the period for listed questions. We will now move on to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

T1. Mrs McKevitt asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they agree that the inclusion of the words “culture” and “arts” in the title of an Executive Department signals Northern Ireland as a place where the creative industries are welcome and that the loss of such a title would cause concern in the industry. (AQT 2021/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As the Member knows, we are in the process of agreeing the names of the new Departments, and there will be huge change impacting on a number of Departments. Whatever title we agree on, people who may have concerns about whether "culture", "arts" and, indeed, many other aspects of government will appear in titles, can rest assured that those will be adequately dealt with not just through the title of the Department but the way in which the Department is described by the particular Department that is undertaking new responsibilities.

From our perspective, at this stage, it is fair to say that there are serious discussions taking place. All parties in the House are represented on the Executive's ministerial subgroup, and the titles that we finally agree, in many ways, will deal specifically with the major responsibilities of a Department. Also, in the context of the outworking of those titles, there will be a very clear explanation of where responsibility lies departmentally for aspects of government, such as culture and arts.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

The proposed new Department of social welfare, communities and sports will amalgamate functions of DSD, DCAL and some functions of DEL. Could the move mean that the budget allocated to the arts and the creative sector will be further squeezed when competing for funds, particularly in the Department that will be responsible for housing and benefits?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am obviously not going to go into detail about where areas of responsibility are moving from or to; that will become clear eventually, and the House will be notified. However, I assure the Member that, first and foremost, we take very seriously the huge economic challenges that we face, particularly in the context of how our Budget has been reduced by the coalition Government at Westminster. At the same time, we are determined to ensure that we provide essential front-line services for everybody who makes a contribution to the enrichment and enhancement of our lives, including people who are involved in sport, culture and arts. So, I do not believe that, under any circumstances, changes to the number of Departments will in any way inhibit Ministers' ability to deliver for those very important aspects of our lives.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Question 2 has been withdrawn within the appropriate guidance.

Maurice Devenney (DUP, Foyle)

T3. Mr Devenney asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they have any plans to extend the Delivering Social Change signature project on improving literacy and numeracy, which is due to expire in several months’ time. (AQT 2023/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, junior Minister McCann will take that question.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will be aware that the Delivering Social Change signature projects, including the one on literacy and numeracy, which the Member mentioned, were very successful. We are looking in the budget to continue that project in this and in the next financial year. We have had conversations with the Department of Education and the Minister of Education on that. We are working within the Delivering Social Change framework. We are hopeful that Departments and their Ministers will look at their core budgets and see where those six signature projects, which were a success, fit into them and then take them forward. We are in conversations with the Department of Education and the Minister on that specific topic.

Maurice Devenney (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the junior Minister for her answer. Does she agree that, if we are minded not to extend the literacy and numeracy project, that will have a detrimental effect on our schools?

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I certainly agree that it was a very successful project. I and junior Minister Bell visited several schools. That project and the nurture groups project, which is also one of the signature projects, were in place. Having talked to some of the new teachers that were brought in, as well as to pupils and other teachers, we are confident that, as an Executive, we will be very mindful of the fact that, when we put in place something that works and is beneficial to young children, schools and children's educational needs, we need to make sure that it is continued.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

T4. Mr McKay asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the progress being made on the implementation of the various commitments in the Stormont House Agreement. (AQT 2024/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As Senator George Mitchell famously once said, it is one thing making an agreement but a whole other exercise implementing it. If that was true in the context of the various agreements that we have made in the past, it is also true of the Stormont House Agreement. I am tremendously encouraged by the attitude and spirit of all of those who have a duty and a responsibility to implement the agreement. As I said earlier, it was put to the Executive that all Ministers should endorse the implementation of the agreement, and all Ministers did. Similarly, the First Minister and I have been involved in two meetings of the implementation group, and, just last Friday, we met the British and Irish Governments.

We all recognise the good work that is being done and the huge challenges that implementing the agreement present for all of us. Prior to Christmas, various correspondents were saying that there was not a snowball's chance in hell of us getting an agreement, and yet we have reached a comprehensive agreement. I would have liked it to have been even more comprehensive than it is, but the reality is that we have reached an agreement on the way forward, and people have set about the work involved in a very serious-minded way.

Important decisions are being made. We have spoken about some of them today, such as the reduction in the number of Departments, the commitment to deal with the number of Assembly Members by 2021 and the whole issue of how we protect people on welfare benefits who would face the brunt of the austerity agenda being deployed by London. Excellent work was done on that, and people will see its outworkings in the time ahead. Of course, in the intervening period, we have had people —

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Two minutes is up, Minister.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

— try to scaremonger about the voluntary exit scheme from the Civil Service and public sector. People have been talking about compulsory redundancies, sackings, and so on, none of which bears any resemblance whatsoever to the truth. The process that we are involved in will be totally and absolutely voluntary.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I have been informed that Members at the back of the Chamber are having difficulty hearing. Ministers should make sure that they are speaking into the mics, and perhaps the sound engineers can try to rebalance the system to assist.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Does the deputy First Minister agree that it is important to make progress swiftly on the Stormont House Agreement to help retain the public's confidence in the Assembly and the institutions and to send out a positive message domestically and internationally?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I think that we are all agreed that, unless we keep to the timelines and the commitments made in the agreement, the danger is that forces outside these institutions will try to portray divisions among us.

I have not identified any divisions amongst us thus far, so I am confident that we will manage to keep to the commitments and the timelines that we set ourselves. The test of all that will happen very shortly in this Assembly. The First Minister and I are very focused, as are the leaders of the Ulster Unionist Party, the SDLP and the Alliance Party, on ensuring that we implement this agreement. That is what people want to hear. People are fed up to the back teeth of controversy and accusations that we cannot take decisions; they want to see decisions being taken. We now have an agreement, and I, who represents probably the most optimistic wing of the peace process, am confident that we can get this done.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

T5. Mr Campbell asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how they see the timeline of the Stormont House Agreement unfolding over the next 18 months, given that the deputy First Minister has indicated that he is optimistic and was tremendously encouraged by the agreement. (AQT 2025/11-15)

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There are so many challenges for all of us. The Member mentioned the next 18 months. We have set ourselves a challenge to establish a commission, which will look at the issues of flags, symbols and identity. That has an 18-month timeline for delivery from around June of this year.

There are other challenges in relation to the timeline. I will not go into all of them in detail, but one of the targets we had to deal with was the passing of a Budget in this Assembly. Another is the passing of the approach to welfare, on which all the parties did good work to protect the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society. Of course, we all face the huge challenges of establishing the bodies that will deal with the past and so forth; namely, the historical investigations unit (HIU), the independent commission for information retrieval (ICIR) and the reconciliation and implementation group. Challenges are there, but thus far there is a commitment; it is obvious that there is seriousness, and we are looking to get this done within the time frames that we have set ourselves.

Gregory Campbell (DUP, East Londonderry)

Given, then, that the deputy First Minister is tremendously encouraged and optimistic — he mentioned the HIU — is he now in a somewhat different position from the one he was in a couple of years ago, when he said that he could not outline what he had been engaged in in the past: the murder and the attempted murder of dozens if not scores of innocent civilians and members of the security forces? He said then that to do so would destabilise the institutions. Does he now feel confident enough to do so without threatening stability?

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I should have anticipated, and I did, that a discordant note would be sounded during the debate. I accurately predicted which Member it would come from. During the course of his contribution, he may have attributed remarks to me that I never made. That said, people should be assured that I am committed, as are others, to the implementation of this agreement.

Given the Member's track record of supporting British state forces, it is quite obvious that he has been very supportive of many of the activities of those people, which resulted in many people losing their lives.

[Interruption.]

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Order. If you ask a question, have the courtesy to listen to the answer.

Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Junior Minister McCann will answer this question with your permission.

Jennifer McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The Member will know that there is now a ministerial group looking at tackling domestic and sexual violence and, indeed, there is a strategy. There was a consultation with many of the stakeholder groups. People had some issues with the strategy as first drafted, but they are now well advanced with the incorporation of that strategy. That strategy will be going forward, not as a separate domestic violence strategy but as a domestic violence and sexual violence strategy.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

There is just time for a supplementary. Hopefully, the Minister will be kind enough to give you a written answer.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

We must now move on.

Oral Answers to Questions — Social Development

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Question 4 has been withdrawn.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

1. Mr Kinahan asked the Minister for Social Development to detail how his Department ensures that local residents are sufficiently consulted on the provision of either permanent or temporary accommodation for the Traveller community. (AQO 7463/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

When providing permanent or temporary sites for Irish Travellers, the Housing Executive has legal obligations to take into account the needs of both the Traveller community and secure tenants.

Under article 28A of the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1983, the Housing Executive has obligations to provide such caravan sites as appear to be appropriate for the accommodation of caravans of the Irish Traveller community. Under article 40 of the 1983 Order, the Housing Executive has obligations to consult with secure tenants about changes that affect them. The Member will be aware that an Adjournment debate on temporary housing sites in Antrim has been tabled by Mr Trevor Clarke and scheduled for Tuesday 3 February. That follows on from correspondence I received from Mr Clarke in relation to the issue.

Danny Kinahan (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. When I put this question in, we were not sure when the debate was going to take place, so I know that there will be a little bit of duplication. There are rights and responsibilities on all sides. Have other sites in Antrim actually been considered? Are you or your Department considering other sites for the future, if indeed it is a temporary application?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for the supplementary. Considerable concern has been expressed by the council and elected Members in relation to this situation. This is an operational issue for the Housing Executive. It raises the way in which situations like this occur under emergency regulations and procedures. I have read through some of the comments made and concerns raised, and they certainly give the impression that it would have been a better approach if it had been identified with the community rather than imposed on the community. This is an operational issue for the Housing Executive, and I will check with the Housing Executive, before the debate tomorrow night, what other sites were considered prior to the decision to use the current site in Rathenraw.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, in your response, you talked about the Travellers' rights. However, each and every MLA will be inundated with enquiries about the rights of ordinary individuals who have housing stress and housing need. What is the Housing Executive doing to address their needs? Are we going to see more camps set up to alleviate the pain and suffering of ordinary individuals within our communities who are under housing stress?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question and for the way in which he has raised the issue, following on from concerns that he has raised.

We always need to have a balance in respect of rights. No particular group has an exclusive right in these situations. We need to ensure that the concerns that are raised by local residents in a stable and settled environment are not completely ignored and that those concerns are taken on board. Yes, as I said, there is an obligation on the Housing Executive to operate within current legislation, but that should not in any way undermine or underestimate the right that it has to take into consideration due regard to other people who live in settled accommodation.

John Dallat (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

In the interests of equality and balance and given that there has been a lot of representation on the side of the community, may I be so bold as to ask about the rights of the Travelling community and how their needs are assessed? They have been travelling the roads of Ireland for, perhaps, hundreds of years, a lot longer than some of the people who complain about them.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I assume that there is a question in there somewhere. Let me answer it because there is almost an assumption in what the Member says that the issue is ignored and is somehow being treated in a trivial way. It is not being treated in a trivial way. Maybe we could have an understanding of who it is that determines, for example, the accommodation needs of the Travelling community. The Housing Executive has responsibility for establishing the accommodation needs of the Travelling community through the comprehensive 'Travellers' Accommodation Needs Assessment', which is a fairly wordy description of trying to meet the needs of a particular section of the community. The Housing Executive commissioned comprehensive assessments in 2002 and 2008, and I understand that a third is expected soon, which will give us a view of the current needs of the Travelling community.

Megan Fearon (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Will the Minister distance himself from the highly offensive comments made by his party colleague Mr Trevor Clarke, when he referred to "ordinary" people?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Comments have been made about the Travelling community issue. I prefer to address the core issue, which is how we have come to a situation in which these concerns have been raised. How do we work with the community, including some of your colleagues on Antrim Borough Council, who have expressed concerns about the situation, to find a resolution in a way that addresses the needs of Travellers?

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

2. Mr Hazzard asked the Minister for Social Development for an update on his Department's attempts to recover £800,000 from Trinity Housing in relation to social housing units in Crossgar, County Down. (AQO 7464/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Indeed, this question is quite topical, as Members may be aware that the issue will be the subject of a Public Accounts Committee meeting on 11 February. Trinity Housing Association received an advance land purchase grant totalling £835,215 on 27 February 2008 for the purchase of a site at 19 Downpatrick Road, Crossgar, on the basis of a 12-unit social housing proposal. Due to a prolonged process with Planning Service over site character issues, objections and amenity space, the site has not been developed. OakleeTrinity is drawing up its proposal for refunding the grant, which will be submitted to the Housing Executive this month for its consideration and approval.

Christopher Hazzard (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer and for his work on putting in place plans to recover the funds. Of course, the funds were given to meet the demand for social housing in the south Down area, particularly around Crossgar and Loughinisland. Will he now pledge to use the money, once it is recovered, to ensure that the social housing need in Crossgar and Loughinisland is met?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. Obviously, I am keen to see a resolution of the issue. It is a substantial amount of money. I do not want to pre-empt anything that will happen at the Public Accounts Committee, but some interesting information will be conveyed at that meeting.

As for meeting the needs in the area that the Member referred to, I remain committed to ensuring that, when that need is identified and brought to the attention of my Department, the housing associations, the Housing Executive and, indeed, Co-ownership, which provides another means of ensuring that we deliver good housing to our communities, I will not be found wanting in ensuring that, when possible, that need is addressed.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Surely, Minister, you have had an assurance from the Department of Finance and Personnel that, if this money is recovered, it will be spent on social housing.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

It would be only due diligence on my part to wait until we have a conclusion to the matter. The Housing Executive has been closely monitoring the scheme's progress and has been aware of issues surrounding it, such as planning issues. This has been going on for a considerable time, and the Housing Executive wanted to afford the then Trinity Housing Association every opportunity to achieve a successful planning outcome. However, we find ourselves in the position where the housing association will have to come back and put plans before the Housing Executive on how it will address the issue. When that happens, decisions can be made on what happens in the future.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his answer so far. Since the introduction of advanced land purchase, how many have been unsuccessful and required settlement?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for her question. This is part of a good news story, but it is also one of the challenges of ALPs. There have been only two ALPs to date when a grant has been paid out but schemes have not progressed. One of those was with Trinity for the site referred to earlier at 19 Downpatrick Road, Crossgar. The other ALP was for a Helm site on Great George's Street in Belfast. A settlement plan has been put in place to ensure the full settlement of the grant paid. The figure for that is substantially more than for the site on the Downpatrick Road. The figure for the Great George's Street site will be £8·1 million by the end of 2016-17, which will involve the offsetting of the ALP grant paid against future schemes. To date, £1·54 million has been recovered in that scheme.

The Housing Executive has advised me that it is not aware of any cases other than the ones in Crossgar and Great George's Street in which the ALP scheme was approved and an ALP payment was made and subsequently removed.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

3. Mr Agnew asked the Minister for Social Development whether targets, league tables or incentives are being used in relation to the number of sanctions imposed on benefit claimants in Northern Ireland. (AQO 7465/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

There are no targets, league tables or incentives used in determining whether individual claimants will have their benefits sanctioned. A decision to impose a sanction on a benefit claimant will be made by a decision-maker in the Social Security Agency and will be based on the relevant regulations and individual circumstances of the case.

I refer to the nine previous answers on the matter of sanctions, the latest one being in November 2014, which also state that there are no targets, league tables or incentives used in determining whether individual claimants will have their benefits sanctioned.

Steven Agnew (Green, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his answer. The reason why he has faced persistent questioning on the issue is that similar assurances were given by UK Ministers, but evidence is coming forward that, whilst the policy was not to use incentives, they were being used in practice. Has the Department undertaken any investigations to ensure that the practice of using incentives and league tables is not operating?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. Obviously, we are in a process in which we are constantly viewing the issue in terms of what happens in the rest of the United Kingdom as far as the roll-out of welfare reform is concerned.

It is something that we endeavour to keep ourselves apprised of on a day and daily basis.

It might be useful to outline to the Member what proposals on benefit sanctions will be brought forward under the proposed Welfare Reform Bill. As Members know, the Bill will come back to the House next week. I am sure that you will all appreciate that I am looking forward to that. I want to ensure, as the deputy First Minister said previously, that we make progress on this issue; that is vital.

Under universal credit, for claimants who are subject to all work-related requirements, there will be three levels of sanction: higher, medium and lower. The higher level sanctions will be imposed on claimants who fail to comply with their most important labour market requirements, such as applying for a vacancy or accepting an offer of work. The sanctions will be three months for the first failure, six months for a second failure, and 18 months for a third failure committed within 52 weeks of a previous failure that resulted in a 26-week sanction. Currently, sanctions for these types of failure are generally set on a case-by-case basis and can be between one and 26 weeks. The reform makes the consequences of failure clearer and stronger. I am well aware that I am running close to the end of my time, so I will give the Member the full answer on the higher level, the medium level and the lower level after the debate.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Indeed you were. I call Maurice Devenney.

Maurice Devenney (DUP, Foyle)

How is Atos incentivised to meet its contractual obligations?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Atos provides medical support services under a contract with the Department for Social Development. The contract has a robust performance management regime and includes joint monthly, quarterly and annual performance review meetings. Atos does not make decisions on benefit entitlement. It provides professional medical advice to the Department's decision makers who use this and all the other available evidence to make a decision.

There are a number of contractual service levels, such as length of time to complete an assessment, quality of assessment, and claimant satisfaction. Where performance does not meet the contracted levels, financial penalties are imposed. The level of reported customer satisfaction is consistently above 90%. Each month, an independent market research company randomly selects claimants and seeks written feedback about the Atos assessment. Atos performance is also independently monitored and evaluated by the Social Security Agency health assessment, and Atos is currently providing a high standard of medical quality.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Minister, you attempted to outline some of the flexibilities pertaining to the sanctions. Can you give the House an assurance that we will have our own bespoke model of sanctions and not impose the higher rate of sanctions outlined at Westminster?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

It is vital that, when the Bill comes back to the House next week, Members see that every effort has been made to ensure two things: first, that we have parity with the rest of the United Kingdom in the framework of the legislation; and, secondly, that, following on from the Stormont House Agreement, we have put in place mitigating measures to deal with areas of concern.

Members need to remind themselves that there is a five party leaders' agreement in relation to this issue. A lot of work will have to be done in terms of the regulations. I can assure the Member that there are many hundreds of regulations on how we roll out what is a very complex and challenging process, in both legislation and timetable. I assure the Member that I am doing all I can to ensure that people are informed and that my Department manages this process in a way that focuses on the people of Northern Ireland, to whom it will deliver a service.

Basil McCrea (NI21, Lagan Valley)

The Minister said that he is keeping abreast of things on a day and daily basis in the United Kingdom. Is he aware of evidence to the Work and Pensions Committee that you are much more likely to get sanctioned than to find a job and that, in fact, sanctions are ineffective? Would he care to give his assessment of that evidence?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I referred to this earlier. We have seen a number of ongoing judicial reviews. There seems to be a difference in elements of implementation in parts of the rest of the United Kingdom in how it is being played out. The Commons Select Committee is taking evidence, and there have been comments in recent days about sanctions. We need to keep the focus here on ensuring that our welfare system is constructed in such a way that it is not a barrier to work and society does not become dependent on having access to that welfare system, but it is there as a safety net for those in need. I sit comfortably with that. I also believe that in such a system, where necessary, sanctions are appropriate and should be used.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

5. Mr Ó Muilleoir asked the Minister for Social Development what measures his Department has taken following the Housing Repossessions Taskforce's report into people losing their homes due to mortgage default. (AQO 7467/11-15)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The task force chair is scheduled to brief the Social Development Committee on the task force report on 12 February, and my Department will publish it shortly after that. Given this, it would be inappropriate for me to comment extensively on the task force’s recommendations until then. However, I can say that my Department takes the task force's recommendations very seriously and has begun to take forward some actions on a number of the recommendations. We are working on an action plan to implement, as soon as possible, the remainder that fall within the Department’s responsibilities.

Before Christmas, my Department also responded to a request from the Housing Rights Service, which runs the mortgage debt advice service, for additional funding of £15,000 this year to meet an increase in demand for that advice service.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Thank you, Minister. If I caught you right, you said that you acceded to the request for £15,000, and I welcome that. It is clear from the Minister's answer that our sympathies are with those who find themselves in negative equity or who lose their homes, sometimes through no fault of their own. We are talking about ordinary people, as the Minister understands. The people that we serve are all ordinary; we do not distinguish between Traveller or settled, black or white, or whatever religion people have. Will the Minister continue to push as hard as possible for those who have really lost out in the boom? As the Minister knows, we helped the banks that made the loans. Will he give a continued commitment to make sure that we give as much help as possible to those who lost their homes?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his comments. The task force made 20 recommendations covering a broad range of issues. Many different sectors and organisations — including mortgage lenders, borrowers, the advice sector and government — have a role to play in improving the position for borrowers in mortgage arrears.

The task force work focused on the two core objectives of helping and encouraging people to help themselves and increasing the number of people who seek help early. When the report is published, I think that the Member will see that the focus is on ensuring that we use all possible mechanisms and means to help those in need, and that those who have a responsibility will not be allowed to, in any way, abdicate their responsibility. Collectively, we will try to ensure that we put together a package based on the recommendations that is there to help and not hinder.

George Robinson (DUP, East Londonderry)

Who is to blame for Northern Ireland having the highest level of mortgage arrears in the United Kingdom?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Well, now, there is a question that could take some time to answer. It maybe follows on from the comments made by the Member opposite. It is neither possible nor perhaps appropriate for me to assign blame to a single sector or group of people. We came through a very difficult and challenging time. The housing market bubble from 2004 to 2007 and the subsequent downturn were a result of a number of factors. All those involved — I have made reference to them already, whether it be the mortgage lenders, the regulators, the banks or the borrowers — contributed to the current mortgage debt landscape. It is a challenge for us and something that we should not, in any way, underestimate. That is why we were keen to set up the task force and why the recommendations will be helpful.

There is an onus on all the organisations that I mentioned to learn the lessons of the past and not to replicate them. I do have concerns, particularly when I see the housing market in parts of the rest of the United Kingdom beginning to heat up again. It would not be long until we found ourselves back in a cycle where families were facing challenges. Caution is always a good policy and, on this one, should take us to a place where people recognise their responsibilities and realise that they need to display a responsible attitude so that we do not repeat the problems of the past.