Northern Ireland Assembly, 8 March 2016

306 contributions from 64 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The first item of business is the consideration of business not concluded on Monday 7 March. All business in yesterday's Order Paper was considered, so we will move on.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The motion is from the Assembly Commission. The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer will have 10 minutes in which to propose the motion and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I beg to move

That this Assembly, in accordance with section 3(1) of the Public Services Ombudsman Act (Northern Ireland) 2016, nominates Marie Anderson for appointment as the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman.

The Public Services Ombudsman Act 2016 delegates to the Assembly Commission responsibility for determining the criteria for appointment and making arrangements to identify, by fair and open competition, a person to be nominated by the Assembly for the role of ombudsman.

As Members are aware, the Act establishes and makes provision about the office of the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman. It abolishes the offices of the Northern Ireland Commissioner for Complaints and the Assembly Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. The Act provides that the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman is, by virtue of holding that office, the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Ombudsman and has a remit broadened to cover the Assembly Commission, colleges and universities, and councillors.

The Assembly Commission believes that the Act has strengthened and enhanced the office and that a suitable candidate has been identified. The Assembly Commission ran an open selection process involving me and Ms Ruane on behalf of the Commission and Jim Martin, the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman. I take this opportunity to thank Mr Martin for his time and expertise.

I should also like to take this opportunity to thank, on behalf of the Assembly, Dr Tom Frawley for his distinguished and widely recognised work as the Assembly Ombudsman and Northern Ireland Commissioner for Complaints since September 2000.

Following the recruitment process, Marie Anderson was the successful candidate. Members may be aware that Ms Anderson has been the deputy ombudsman since May 2009 and has developed a strong reputation in that position. She is a qualified solicitor with previous experience as senior legal assistant at the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and is the first Assistant Information Commissioner for Northern Ireland. Today, I seek the Assembly's agreement to the nomination of Marie Anderson as the first Public Services Ombudsman. I am confident that Ms Anderson's skills and experience will allow her to be an excellent ombudsman.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

The Committee welcomes the nomination today by the Assembly Commission of Mrs Marie Anderson for appointment to the new office of Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman, or NIPSO for short. Mrs Anderson is the first ombudsman to be nominated under the legislation brought through the Assembly by the Committee for OFMDFM, which merges and reforms the existing offices of Assembly Ombudsman and Commissioner for Complaints. The NIPSO will also have new powers over, for example, schools, universities and further education colleges, which are included in the ombudsman's remit.

This will be an exciting challenge for Mrs Anderson. On behalf of the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, I wish her well in her new role and look forward to working with her. I echo the sentiments expressed earlier that Mrs Anderson is highly skilled and extremely well suited to carry out this important role.

I would like to take this opportunity to convey the Committee's thanks to the outgoing ombudsman, Dr Tom Frawley, for his work as ombudsman. The Committee is also extremely grateful to Dr Frawley for his significant contribution to the development of the new legislation.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, gabhaim buíochas le Comhaltaí as a n-óráidí. I thank Members for their contributions. Aithním gurbh é Acht an Ombudsman um Sherbhísí Poiblí an chéad reachtaíocht a thug Coiste Reachtúil de chuid an Tionóil tríd an Teach. I recognise that the Public Services Ombudsman Act was the first legislation taken through the House by a Statutory Committee.

Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil arís le Coiste an Chéad Aire agus an LeasChéad Aire agus le gach feidhmneannach de chuid an Tionóil a chuidigh leis an Acht a fhorbairt agus a chur i bhfeidhm. I would like to use this opportunity to thank the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister and all the Assembly officials who contributed to developing and implementing the Act.

As Ms Paula Bradley stated in her opening remarks, the Assembly Commission was determined to recruit a high-quality candidate in keeping with the demands and profile of the ombudsman's office. Táimid cinnte go bhfuil an t-iarrthóir sin againn in Ms Anderson. In nominating Ms Anderson, we are confident that we have succeeded. She has an impressive legal and public service background and a wealth of experience in the ombudsman's sphere. Personally, it is an even greater pleasure to be winding this motion to appoint Ms Anderson on International Women's Day. Is forbairt an-dearfach é a hainmniúchán inniu, agus, faoi réir cheadú an Tionóil, guím gach rath uirthi ina post. Her nomination today is an extremely positive development and, subject to the Assembly's approval, I wish her well in the post.

Tá súil agam go dtacóidh Comhaltaí ar fud an Tí leis an rún. Molaim an rún don Teach. I hope that Members from across the House will support the motion, and I commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That this Assembly, in accordance with section 3(1) of the Public Services Ombudsman Act (Northern Ireland) 2016, nominates Marie Anderson for appointment as the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman.

Private Members' Business

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer will have 10 minutes to propose the motion and 10 minutes to wind. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes. I call Karen McKevitt, the chairperson of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I beg to move

That this Assembly supports the celebration of International Women's Day 2016 and Assembly Women's Week 2016; affirms its commitment to encouraging more women into politics and public life; acknowledges the importance of the work of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly; and advocates the establishment of a women's parliamentary caucus.

It is my privilege to propose the all-party motion before us today — a day known globally as International Women's Day. I take this opportunity to thank the Business Committee for giving time to list the motion and for it to be scheduled earlier than usual.

On 9 March 2015, the Assembly approved the Assembly and Executive Review Committee's report on women in politics and the Northern Ireland Assembly. The Committee concluded that the under-representation of women in politics in Northern Ireland is a serious issue that must be addressed as a matter of urgency. The Committee made recommendations to the Assembly, the Executive and political parties with the aim of addressing that under-representation of women in politics in Northern Ireland as a matter of urgency.

Numerous submissions to the Committee called for the establishment of a women's parliamentary caucus as an example of good practice in supporting existing female politicians and encouraging aspiring female politicians to enter politics. The Committee brought that recommendation forward, and I am pleased to inform you that the Assembly women's caucus will be officially launched today, 8 March 2016 — International Women's Day. The caucus held its first meeting yesterday, 7 March.

The key objectives of the women's caucus include reviewing and influencing policy and legislation from a gender perspective; increasing the representation of women in the leadership of parliamentary Committees; building capacity and empowering women through training women Members on Assembly rules and procedures; training women Members on the procedures for and drafting of private Member's Bills; improving the leadership and parliamentary skills of its members by offering conflict resolution workshops and leadership training programmes to empower women; and building confidence and encouraging them to be heard. The women's caucus will also work towards raising awareness of gender equality issues and gender sensitivity through the media; creating a social space for women and fostering a sense of solidarity; and developing and maintaining strong relationships among women MLAs and relevant bodies and organisations. The caucus will undoubtedly lobby decision makers, internal and external, on gender-related issues, advocate gender equality on a local, national and international level and network with relevant stakeholders and organisations to promote gender sensitivity.

A political career path is deemed as being not family-friendly due to long plenary sittings and the varying demands placed on Members' time. It remains true that women are the main carers in our society, and, as such, we need to explore strategies to improve the work-life balance and consider childcare issues and other caring responsibilities. That will be another key priority for the women's caucus.

One final objective for the caucus will be the development of a strategic plan for dealing with gender-sensitive issues and the promotion of gender mainstreaming within the Northern Ireland Assembly. AERC recommended the establishment of a working group on a gender-sensitive Parliament and that that working group should have equal membership of male and female MLAs. If progress towards a gender-sensitive Assembly is to be achieved, it will continue to be important for the Speaker's reference group to comprise male and female Members, who can act as champions in the short and long-term — that is, the next mandate — and bring a strategic perspective to the work of the group. The women's caucus, however, will be an all-female caucus.

I acknowledge the Assembly Commission's contribution to raising the profile of gender-sensitive issues. I also commend the AERC and the secretariat staff involved in the report on women in politics and the researchers in Research and Information Service (RaISe), who deepened the understanding of the barriers to the representation of women and of gender equality issues.

The Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly was established on 10 February 2016. I would like to thank the Speaker for taking such a proactive role and for establishing the reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly. I would also like to thank my colleagues Sandra Overend, Paula Bradley, Caitríona Ruane, Trevor Lunn and Steven Agnew, who sit on the group with me. All signed today's motion and are dedicated to increasing the number of females across political and public life.

The purpose of the Speaker's reference group is to support and advise on Assembly initiatives; to enhance and support the engagement of women in politics, including the women in politics leadership programme developed by Politics Plus; to provide the Speaker with advice on progress towards a gender-sensitive Parliament; to prepare a three-year gender-sensitive Assembly action plan based on the recommendations from the AERC inquiry and Inter-Parliamentary Union best practice; and to support the establishment of the women's parliamentary caucus, which it has now done.

A lot of work has been undertaken by Politics Plus to address the under-representation of women in political and public life. It has been working to develop strong, sustainable international links; foster relationships between communities and across generations; and enhance the role of women in peace-building and civic society through the successful delivery of the women in politics leadership programme, which includes the women in public life programme, the young female leaders academy, and expert one-on-one training.

While the women's caucus, with the support of Politics Plus and the Speaker's reference group, has much work to do, I should mention some positive equality changes that have occurred in political life: the position of the First Minister for Northern Ireland is now held by Arlene Foster; we have seen the work of Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP and First Minister, in Scotland; and, of course, Hillary Clinton is fighting in the USA to be the Democrat candidate in the presidential race. Now that the decision has been made to appoint Marie Anderson as Public Services Ombudsman, I can add her to that list. We are absolutely delighted that she will take up that post, particularly on an important today like today.

With more women taking up high-profile positions, it is hoped that positive media coverage will help to inspire more women to see politics as a suitable career path, and I highly recommend it to anybody. However, we cannot sit back and wait for societal changes; we must change our society. It is my hope that the women's caucus will drive change so that the male: female ratio in the Assembly will be much closer to 50:50 by 2020.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I am delighted to stand in the Chamber in support of the motion on International Women's Day 2016. First, I would like to say a few words of thanks, and the first person whom I want to thank is you, Mr Speaker. I thank you for your commitment to women in politics and women in public life. A few months ago, Caitríona Ruane and I, having come up with one or two ideas that we thought might be good to look at for International Women's Day, ambushed you in your office. You took those ideas, and not only did you make the Assembly celebrate International Women's Day, you made it into International Women's Week. For that, on behalf, I am sure, of everyone, especially all the women, I say that we are extremely grateful. You and, of course, your staff, have put together a fantastic programme. Thank you for your commitment to bringing about a very special week and a very good week for women in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

I would also like to thank the women's lobby; without it and its support, we would not be in this position today. I do not think that we would have advanced this far — and we have advanced. We need not kick ourselves too much, because we have come a long way since I was first elected in 2011. I thank the women's lobby for its perseverance, for hammering on, for banging that drum, and saying that women deserve more equality.

I also want to thank the AER Committee. Many of you will be aware that Caitríona Ruane and I are the only two females on the Committee. When we brought up the issue of women in the Northern Ireland Assembly, there was no gnashing of teeth, although, at times along the road, some of the men wanted to throw their papers in the air. However, none did, and they supported us 100% in what we wanted to achieve. We may not have achieved all that we wanted, but we came some way.

It is due to the AERC that we are where we are. It is through its recommendations that we have the Speaker's reference group and our caucus. There are exciting times ahead for us all.

I thank Karen McKevitt and Sandra Overend for taking on the roles of chair and vice-chair of the Speaker's reference group and looking at issues around a more gender-sensitive parliament, which is an issue that arose in our AERC report. When we look at creating a gender-sensitive Parliament, we look at many issues, but many of the issues that affect our gender also affect the male gender as well, such as the timings of our sittings, childcare and various other issues. So we are not just here to bang the drum for the wives, mothers and daughters in the Chamber; we are also here to assist in getting equality for fathers, sons and husbands. I thank them for taking on those roles.

I was pleased yesterday, when we had the inaugural meeting of the women's caucus, to put forward the name of Caitríona Ruane for chair. I will be supporting her. We have a very good working relationship. We are a bit of an unlikely pairing at times, and we disagree on lots and lots of things, but there is one thing we do agree on, and that is equality for women and a higher representation of women in the Chamber.

When I came here in 2011, I had already been a councillor and mayor of a borough. I remember delivering my first speech in the Chamber, and it was on domestic violence and violence against women. I was like a rabbit in the headlights. My knees were quaking; I was so nervous and intimidated by the Chamber. It is due to the support that I have had from my party colleagues and other people in the Chamber that I can stand here today and not feel like that rabbit in the headlights.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Will the Member give way?

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

Yes, I will indeed.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Member for her comments and for the tremendous work that she and her team have done in relation to gender equality. Does she agree with me about the importance of having women at every level on all different Committees? That makes a significant difference for women.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Member has an extra minute.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her intervention. I could not agree more: we play a very significant role as legislators, making laws within this Assembly. That cannot be underestimated.

Being a Member of this Assembly has helped me to achieve my goals: it has empowered me and helped me to unlock the potential that I have, and I know there is much more potential ahead. If you had asked me whether that would happen four years ago, I might have given you a very different answer. I am glad to say that I am a Member of this Assembly, and I hope that by being one I have unlocked potential amongst women, whether they are young or old, to empower them to achieve what they want to achieve.

I wish everyone a very happy International Women's Day 2016.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Lá Idirnáisiúnta na mBan sona daoibh uilig. Happy International Women's Day to you all. I join Paula Bradley and Karen McKevitt in congratulating the Speaker on the tremendous International Women's Week programme.

You will be relieved to hear that today, rather than focussing on gender inequality in our society, I am going to celebrate the achievements of women in this Chamber and the major steps that we have taken in a very short period of time.

This is the exact date on which we debated the AERC report last year. I pay tribute to every member of that Committee, and I see that most of them are in the Chamber. That was the starting point of this journey, and it was a very important starting point. We lit the building up in purple for the first time. That was Judith Cochrane's proposal, and we all supported it. The AERC also went to Iceland, where we saw some very tangible things that could be done to bring about real changes. That is something which, I know, the women's caucus and, I am sure, the gender-sensitive Parliament working group will continue to look at.

The highlight of my time here was probably the trip to Sweden, where, for the first time, I got to know a lot of the women from various parties on a personal basis. I learnt a lot there, and I hope that we built real friendships. At least, I feel that I built real friendships, while respecting all our differences.

Since this time last year, we have had the first meeting of the women's caucus — the women's caucus is being launched tonight by Martin McGuinness and junior Minister Pengelly — and we have had about four meetings of the gender-sensitive Parliament. There is a range of events, including a visit from the granddaughter of one of the suffragettes, on Friday, which, I think, Paula is officiating at. That is a fantastic way to end Assembly women's week.

We also have a First Minister who is a woman; we have two junior Ministers; we have a Minister for Agriculture and a Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure; we have an Assembly Commission in which, for the first time, it is three all, which makes it a much nicer place to be; and we have two women Whips. I used to be in the lonely place of being the only woman Whip, but we now have two women Whips. That did not happen by accident. That happened because women were taking power and being supported by men in parties who understood the importance of true equality within each of our parties.

As Paula Bradley said, it does not mean that we all agree with each other. We do not. We disagree on lots of occasions. Yesterday, Paula Bradley and I were on different sides of voting on an amendment, and, straight after that, we supported each other in the women's caucus. The trick is how we manage our differences.

I enjoyed very much working with you all. The fact that there were more women in Committees made them much nicer places to be. I also personally thank my colleague Raymond McCartney. The Whip and group leader in our party do a lot of work together, and I have to say that he has been a joy to work with over the last number of years and a really good group leader.

As we have this debate, I am conscious that we are losing some very good women who are not standing for election. We are losing Judith Cochrane; we are losing Bronwyn McGahan; we have lost Sue Ramsey; we have lost Michelle Gildernew; we are losing Anna Lo. I think that the Chamber and Assembly are going to miss those women. I pay tribute to them and wish them all the best. I have no doubt that we will be seeing you up here again in whatever guise —

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

Will the Member give way?

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I will.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

The Member has mentioned some of our high-profile women. Does she agree that having women here creates great role models for our next generation of female politicians?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Member has an extra minute.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Thank you for your intervention. I absolutely agree with you. That struck me, last night, as we had an amazing event in the Long Gallery with some powerful women participants. There were over 90 women and men there last night. It was a powerful event, and I am looking forward to the events that are coming up.

I end by saying that I lost my mother in December. She was a good, strong woman, who had a great life. She reared seven children; she reared them in different times. Women like my mother, and all our mothers, fought the good fight in their way, in their time. As a mother and mamó — a grandmother — I put on record my thanks to her.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

You caught me on the hop, Mr Speaker. On International Women's Day, I am very pleased to be the first man — perhaps, the only man — to speak in the debate. As a member of your reference group, I am very pleased to do so, and to speak in favour of the motion, of increased female participation in public life, and of the Assembly recognising that we have a problem of unequal representation and that we have an obligation to do something about it.

I commend your initiative, Mr Speaker, in setting up the reference group. I will contribute in any way that I can to the work of that group, as I am sure that Steven Agnew will, although he is not here today.

Judith Cochrane (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for giving way. Can I just put on record my thanks to my colleague Trevor Lunn for all the work he has done in his role on the AERC? Does he agree that men have as important a role as women in continuing to drive the changes through so that we see really able women here and playing a really important role in public life?

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Member has an extra minute.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank my party colleague for that. I will put it bluntly: you will not make the progress that you would like to make in this place without the support of men. That is a given. I hope that a lot of other men who maybe do not need much persuasion will come on board with the initiative as time goes on.

The women's caucus will be established today. Both groups can then drive forward an agenda that, I hope, will place women on a more equal footing in this place. If we set the example, others will follow and the boards of public companies and those receiving support from public funds can be encouraged, persuaded or cajoled to do likewise. The public appointments process should also be made to adopt a more equitable approach to its operation, not just to women, frankly, but to minorities of all kinds, because it is something that is very lacking in its performance to date.

Mr Speaker, your initiative, of course, has its roots in the AERC report on women in politics a year ago, one of the more significant reports that that Committee has brought out. We have produced almost 30 recommendations, two of which you have now acted on. If they were all adopted, they would certainly go a long way towards achieving the results we would all like to see. I will just refer briefly to some of the recommendations. Recommendation 1 states:

"political parties should consider developing targeted membership strategies to encourage more women".

Note the words "should consider". Recommendation 2 states:

"The Committee recognised that high profile female MLAs can act as positive role models and...that political parties should take this into account when making political appointments".

Well, the point has been made: we now have six female Ministers in this place, which is an excellent tribute to the fact that the Assembly is trying to do something. In particular, we have a female First Minister. I welcomed that appointment. It is a major step forward.

Recommendation 7 states:

"political parties may wish to consider the introduction of measures to increase the number of female candidates being put forward for election."

Of course, that is really at the heart of it. Whatever we do or can put in place by consensus across the Chamber, it is still up to political parties to put people forward and to put women forward not just in a tokenistic way but to put them up for winnable seats. That is the difference.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Member for giving way. Like many others in the Chamber, I came through local government first. Does the Member agree that that is where emphasis should also be placed? Getting more female candidates into local government will eventually lead to, hopefully, more candidates here as well.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Yes, that goes without saying. I am talking about local government as well as the Assembly. That is certainly the breeding ground for Assembly candidates of either gender, so I appreciate the point that Mr Lyons makes.

Recommendation 12 states that we:

"should consider adopting measures from...international best practice to create a gender sensitive Northern Ireland".

There is certainly a lot to learn from international best practice in that respect. Ms Ruane mentioned the Icelandic experience, which was memorable — short but very informative. I would say that.

Recommendation 22 is the last that I will refer to:

"the Assembly should ensure, where possible, gender representation be considered when agreeing official delegations from the Assembly."

That would send a good message to whomever we are dealing with that this is an Assembly that values equal representation as far as possible. I am absolutely in favour of that as well.

Of course, with regard to Stormont and local councils, it is absolutely up to parties to put a fair proportion of women up for winnable seats. That is the key to this. Frankly, it is also for women to assert themselves within parties. They appear to me to be perfectly capable of doing that. It goes against the natural way of things in Northern Ireland, but it is changing, and it is time that it changed. The old notion that behind every great man is a woman is so out of date that I should not even be saying it.

I see that my time is up, Mr Speaker. I also celebrate International Women's Day. I wish all our woman well and a good day, and I wish the women's caucus and your group every success into the new mandate.

Emma Little-Pengelly (DUP, Belfast South)

I rise to support the motion and to celebrate women, their lives, hopes, ambitions and achievements on this International Women's Day. I welcome the opportunity to shine a light and celebrate the freedoms, rights and liberties that we enjoy in the Assembly, in Northern Ireland and across the world, while noting that more can be done here and much more must be done internationally.

When I grew up in Northern Ireland in the 1980s and into my teens in the 1990s, I knew that there had been some challenges for women. However, like so many of my generation, I believed that the world was hurtling towards a point of gender equality and protection — I assumed that that would happen —at which we all had the space, regardless of gender, to choose the opportunities and pathways that we wanted.

I remember hearing about the suffragettes, about how women used to have the leave the workplace when they got married, about archaic family law systems where the mother had no rights and about how even a glimpse of an ankle was considered shocking. As a child, those customs, laws and challenges seemed almost unimaginable. We had come so far. Yet, as a woman in my thirties, I look across the world and see what seems to be, at times, a regression in those rights and liberties and in the value of girls and women across the world.

The statistics are stark. Some 27 countries still practise female genital mutilation, impacting on 200 million young girls and women. Globally, one in three women will experience violence at the hands of a male partner. Globally, 30% of violence against women starts during pregnancy. The majority of women killed across the world are murdered by a partner or close family member. Closer to home, the England and Wales crime statistics show that one woman is killed every three days by a partner or former partner. I was shocked when I read that statistic. It is not something that we see on the news every night or every week. Even as a child and as a teenager, I laughed at the idea of how shocking it would be to show an ankle as in the customs of 100 years ago, and I had no idea that, in 2016, women around the world would be publicly flogged and even killed for doing just that.

The global developments have not just threatened peace and world stability but posed a huge threat to the liberties and rights of women. It really struck me from speaking to some of the young women involved in some of the projects around female empowerment that they do not share the expectation that I had in my teenage years in the 1990s and that they see the global threat to female liberty much more starkly now. We must stand united and fight against the rising tide of hate and misogyny internationally and prevent the further crushing of whole generations of women who have so much to give to medicine, art and literature and to the ideas and policies that will shape our world in governments, in offices, in the Civil Service, in businesses and in politics.

Maya Angelou, one of the strongest women of recent times and somebody whom I consider to be a role model, said about strong women:

“You may encounter many defeats, but you must not be defeated. In fact, it may be necessary to encounter the defeats, so you can know who you are, what you can rise from, how you can still come out of it.”

There is indeed much to grieve when we look internationally, but I welcome the steps that the Assembly has taken on female participation and support.

I want us to take from today a revived sense of purpose in securing and enhancing our liberties, participation and roles in life in Northern Ireland, while doing what we can to help and support women here and across the world.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Tá áthas orm deis a bheith agam páirt a ghlacadh sa díospóireacht tábhachtach seo ar maidin agus beidh mé ag tacú leis an rún. I am absolutely delighted that I and the Assembly have the opportunity this morning to mark International Women's Day. A number of events have unfolded this week, particularly here in the Assembly. It is notable that, although there has been a very tight legislative schedule this week, space has been made this morning to ensure that we highlight, acknowledge and validate the significant role that women have played in the promotion of rights and social justice across continents and down through the decades.

This week, there will be a focus on the role of women, particularly in the Assembly. I want to acknowledge, Mr Speaker, the series of events that your office has organised this week in close cooperation with a number of women, and particularly the new focus groups that are being set up. It is important that we continue that work. There will be particular focus on the women MLAs who have been elected since 1998, and, tomorrow, you are hosting a lunch for them, particularly former Members. I want to acknowledge the role of Mary Nelis, who you will know well from the Foyle constituency and with whom Maeve McLaughlin and I have worked closely over many years. Mary Nelis is an excellent example of a strong woman, with a strong personality, and a good public representative. We have seen that on a range of issues before. When the political mainstream made it difficult for people to raise their voice, Mary Nelis certainly raised her voice on the rights of women, vulnerable people, tenants, people in poverty, prisoners and, indeed, anybody else who was struggling to assert his or her rights. Mary Nelis was always there. She is an excellent role model for many people and an excellent representative for women MLAs.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Will the Member give way?

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I will, surely.

Michaela Boyle (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Given that it is International Women's Day, and given that it was recently Mother's Day, will the Member agree with me that we should also remember those women from local government and the Assembly who are now deceased and remember the contribution that they made to local government, the Assembly and other walks of life through democracy? We should also acknowledge and remember them today. Go raibh maith agat.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Absolutely.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Member has an extra minute.

Raymond McCartney (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Thank you very much, a Cheann Comhairle. I have absolutely no doubt that this week and, I am sure, at the gathering tomorrow in particular, people will remember those who have unfortunately passed away, be they public representatives from the Assembly, local government or, indeed, each of our political parties. Those women were very strong and very forceful in ensuring that women's rights were always asserted, be it in a party or right across society.

I want to welcome the initiative of the women's caucus. I am particularly pleased that it was one of the recommendations from the Assembly and Executive Review Committee, of which I am a member. That in itself was an excellent piece of work. It showed good foresight, because, when that Committee was set up, that was not perhaps seen as being one of its tasks. In particular, I thank Paula Bradley and Caitríona Ruane for proposing the initiative. When we examined it, we started to see many of the issues that needed to be addressed, and those continue to be addressed. The people in the caucus are formidable representatives in their own right and when it comes to asserting the rights of women in the Assembly to make this place better on gender issues. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

I will move on to the subject of under-representation of women in sport, which is right across the board. Billie Jean King, who was a formidable tennis player, last night made the point that her generation was the generation that broke through and brought women to the table. She said that the challenge for the next generation of women was to ensure that their voice becomes stronger, their responsibility becomes greater and that delivery becomes something that women can be proud of, so that the next generation of women, when they go forward, will be going into a better space.

The task for not just the caucus but us all is that this caucus will open up and create the responsibility and a better place so that, in five or 10 years, if there is another inquiry by the Assembly and Executive Review Committee, they can look back and say that the origin of that piece of work was good, necessary and required, and, more importantly, that it was delivered.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I am delighted to acknowledge International Women's Day and speak on the motion. When we look over history — the Member opposite talked about the suffragettes — if it were not for people like Emmeline Pankhurst and the movement to give women the vote, how many of us would be here today?

We think of women like Florence Nightingale, the lady with the lamp, the soldiers' friend and so on, and the work that she did. Another nurse was Calamity Jane, who was famous for some of her more adventurous exploits but spent her life attending to smallpox victims in the dark hills of Dakota.

We then think of somebody like Mother Teresa, who was among the poor all the life. She said:

"Not all of us can do great things but we can do small things with great love."

Maybe that is a model for us today.

Reference has been made to the work of the AERC, its various visits and work on women in politics. The key message for me, whether it is the Assembly or local government, is that we need to be a lot more family friendly, not just for the women but for the men as well. Speaking particularly with a rural cap on, and thinking of people like Karen here or our First Minister, Arlene Foster, from County Fermanagh, that issue needs to be taken into consideration.

In this year of commemorations, we have to acknowledge the role that women played. In Ireland, we think of the great work of Mary Robinson and, in particular, of Mary McAleese. Could anyone other than Mary McAleese have done it when Queen Elizabeth came to Ireland? I do not think so. They have made a major contribution to building bridges in this land.

On a day like this — the Member opposite spoke about this as well — we have to think of women who are suffering today. We think of the women in Nigeria who were kidnapped by Boko Haram, or in refugee camps in Syria, Calais or wherever. We think also of the women suffering here, who lost a partner or children in the conflict or other horrific events. I think particularly of a young wife, a constituent of mine, who buried her husband last week as the result of a road traffic accident and who is trying to pick up the pieces of her life with four young children.

Caitríona spoke about her mother. Where would any of us be without our mothers? My mother is long deceased, but she was a great countrywoman. On a lighter note, I have a wife and four daughters, so International Women's Day is nearly every day in our house for my son and me.

I want to acknowledge the great work of women, whether mothers or people who have dedicated themselves to the single life, whether in politics or just across the world. I wish the women's caucus every success because most of these women will come back to this Assembly in the next mandate, and I look forward to helping where I can, as a man, in taking their case further.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Does that mean that you are going to do what you are told?

[Laughter.]

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Happy International Women's Day to everyone, the women and the men, because I do not think anyone would be in the Chamber without a woman, and that is their mother.

Mr Speaker, I join others in thanking you for your commitment in progressing gender equality in the Assembly. I feel that that will be your legacy.

As a Member who will have been here for coming up to two years on the day of the election, I know that your support of me, particularly as an independent female in the Assembly, has been really greatly received. You stood up last year and declared yourself a feminist, and, Mr Speaker, I think you have earned that. I hope that your successor, who maybe will be a female, will continue to build on that wall so that we can keep reaching that glass ceiling that we need to keep breaking time and time again.

I pay tribute to all female MLAs. It was a really wonderful man who got me here, but I think my learning experience in these past two years really was guided by the women in the Chamber. Being an independent in this corner, and a female independent at that, can be quite difficult. However, I have looked to the strength of other women and have seen how they have conducted themselves in the Chamber, from all sides of the House, and I appreciate their guidance. So, I thank you all for being there.

As I said, I will have been an MLA for two years on the day of the election. This year, 2016, has been a great year. I hope it will be a better one, but we will see in May. It saw the first female First Minister in Northern Ireland, and I am kind of glad she is not here because I must admit that Arlene Foster is someone who I have always admired. I would be quite embarrassed saying this if she were in the Chamber. I admire her because she is a really good politician. She is not just a good female politician; genuinely, she is a good politician. I think that is how women need to progress; we should not be set aside and considered to be not good at things because we are women. We are good at things generally. I have never seen myself as any less capable simply for being female. If others do, quite frankly, that is their problem, not mine. I hope that is how other younger women will see the Assembly today and see me. If I can leave the Chamber today and the only message I have given out is that we as women will be good role models for other women coming forward —

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

Will the Member take an intervention?

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Yes. Please; go ahead.

Caitriona Ruane (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I understand the Member has been nominated as woman of the year in her constituency, so I congratulate her. I know you will not be with us tonight for the launch of the women's caucus, so I am taking this opportunity to congratulate you.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Member will have an extra minute.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I also pay tribute to Caitríona Ruane. We had our first meeting of the women's caucus yesterday. I should not really be on it, if I am quite honest, because I am an independent Member. It was designated by d'Hondt, but Caitríona Ruane went out of her way to ensure that I am on it. We had a discussion about what the politics of that was, and I am quite ashamed to say that I put the politics ahead of the generosity she offered me as a woman. I am quite happy now to put on record that Sinn Féin gave up a seat so that I could be on the group because it saw the value of me being on it for my constituency and for other women. I think that is important, and I think that is why women generally have such a good input to politics here. We can set aside our differences and can work together and simply get things done.

Today is International Women’s Day. Mr Speaker, you have made a week of events, and I think it is really a fantastic week of opportunities. I am going to declare 2016 as the year for women, particularly in Northern Ireland, because I think we deserve it and it is a good message that we need to send out to women and men.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

As vice chairperson of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly and as an Ulster Unionist MLA, I very much welcome the opportunity to conclude on this debate, pertinent as it is on International Women’s Day. I will add my voice to all the others wishing everyone in the Chamber and further afield a happy International Women’s Day.

It is clear that women have pushed through the sticky door or the glass ceiling or whatever metaphor you wish to use. They will continue to do so, but, all too often, not enough manage to follow the pioneers through. I have said in previous discussions like this that conditions need to be set up so that women are given the same chance in politics as men, as in the STEM sector, in business, on boards and so on. That assistance is gained through ensuring that women are given the right support to allow them to succeed.

I want to go through some of the issues that all the contributors mentioned this morning. Everyone raised really good points. I congratulate Paula, who said that the Assembly has empowered her. Many of us have done things that we never thought we could do in our term as Assembly Members. I am glad that the Assembly has empowered her and so many women around here. Of course, it has empowered men and women, but we really want to unlock the potential of women. There is a lot to be said about finding the right balance of men and women in the Assembly and in so many places in society.

Caitríona Ruane mentioned that the highlight of her work in this area was the trip to Sweden. It was like going back to university for a lot of us. Boy, times have changed when can use your camera phone to take photographs of the notes in front of you rather than having to scribble everything down. It was a great opportunity, and I agree with her sentiments about it.

Ms Ruane also mentioned that we are supported by men in our parties, and I agree that that is important, too. Indeed, I would not be standing here without the support of all the men in the Ulster Unionist Party who encouraged me to stand in Mid Ulster, and I thank them for that continual encouragement.

Some Members

Hear, hear.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Your Back-Benchers.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

Mr Trevor Lunn said that if we set an example others will follow, and I think that that is a very good point. He also said that we should not use the old saying anymore that behind every man is a good woman, and that is very much the case. At this stage, behind every woman in the Assembly, there is a great team of support, whether it is a husband, a mother or a grandmother. We need that support behind us so that we can spend long hours in this place and dedicate much of our time to this job. I would like to place on record my thanks to my support mechanism at home in Mid Ulster.

Emma Pengelly talked about the global threat to female liberty. Women may be more inclined to think about issues of compassion, but we all — men and women — should consider that. I thank Mrs Pengelly for highlighting the issue and join her in supporting that. Raymond McCartney focused on the events this week. Again, I add my thanks and recognition to women who have served in previous Assembly mandates in this place. I think of our Ulster Unionist Members — I am not sure whether they are attending the get-together tomorrow — Joan Carson and Pauline Armitage. So, I add my thanks to previous female MLAs.

Seán Rogers referred to many female role models from Florence Nightingale to the amazing Calamity Jane. I would also like to recognise — I am sure that many will agree with me — another role model for many of us in Northern Ireland, and that is Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth, who has reigned over the United Kingdom for over 60 years. That is an amazing accomplishment, and I am sure that others will agree with that.

I thank Claire Sugden for her contribution to the debate. She reminded us that, whether we are a man or a woman, we would not be here without a woman, and that is our mother. I congratulate her on her two years as a Member; I certainly feel that she has made a difference in the many things that she has done.

I echo the comments of all other Members who spoke and congratulate the Speaker on taking the initiative in proceeding with all his work in this area.

I acknowledge the work of the Assembly Executive and Review Committee and the secretariat staff who supported the Committee in its inquiry into women in politics and the Northern Ireland Assembly. Many Members this afternoon — Paula Bradley, Caitríona Ruane and Trevor Lunn — highlighted the work of AERC, which has been crucial in examining this issue. Trevor endorsed the recommendations in the report, and I am sure that that can be continued and pursued.

The work of Politics Plus has been excellent and has sought to strengthen the role of women in political and public life through various programmes such as the women in politics programme, the women in public life programme, the experts in residence programme and the young female leaders academy. Politics Plus has also had a crucial role to play in supporting the establishment of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly women's caucus. As vice-chairperson of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly, I want to acknowledge and thank the chairperson, Karen McKevitt, for all her work as chairperson of that group and for proposing the motion. I also want to thank all the members of the group — men and women, importantly — for developing a draft gender-sensitive action plan and for their support for the establishment of the Northern Ireland Assembly women's caucus.

AERC concluded that the under-representation of women in politics in Northern Ireland is a serious issue that must be addressed as a matter of urgency. It recommended that the Assembly should establish a working group on a gender-sensitive Assembly, which should be made up of an equal number of male and female members. That group was established on 10 February, and its membership comprises male and female MLAs.

Numerous submissions to AERC called for the establishment of a women's parliamentary caucus as an example of good practice that would support existing female politicians and encourage aspiring female politicians to enter politics. As a result, the Committee recommended that the Assembly should facilitate the creation of a women's caucus. With the support of Politics Plus, the Speaker's reference group worked to establish the Northern Ireland Assembly women's caucus, which will be officially launched this evening. It had its first meeting yesterday and, as the proposer of the motion said, its vision is to have a united women's Assembly caucus that works together, irrespective of political party affiliation, to ensure equality for all, to provide an opportunity for women to exchange and ensure that there is cross-party collaboration on ideas, to form collective platforms on particular policies and actions, and to support one another on issues and areas of common concern. The chairperson of the group, Mrs McKevitt, in proposing the motion earlier, spoke about the proposed objectives of the caucus.

In her paper entitled 'Women Legislators in Northern Ireland: Gender and Politics in the New Legislative Assembly', Kimberley Cowell-Meyers stated:

"Women legislators may not be able to influence institutional norms, policy priorities or policy outputs in the absence of a critical mass of women (over 30 per cent) ... Yet, even in the absence of a critical mass of women, the efforts of women legislators to have effect as women may be advanced by establishing a women’s legislative caucus".

According to the Inter-Parliamentary Union's 2013 'Guidelines for Women's Caucuses':

"Women’s caucuses ... are mechanisms that have been created within the parliaments of many countries to strengthen cooperation among women engaged in political life. Such caucuses can bring women parliamentarians together across party lines in effective alliances around a common goal ... Women’s caucuses help to build the capacity of women parliamentarians, organizing and providing support and training to make them better members. According to research conducted by the Inter-Parliamentary Union, the main challenge facing newly-elected women find is coming to grips with how male-dominated the system is and figuring out the parliament’s written and unwritten rules and procedures."

Therefore, while the Northern Ireland Assembly has 23 female Members, which equates to 20% of Members overall, I am particularly pleased that we have created a women's caucus. Our numbers in the Assembly may be small, but we are no less a force to be reckoned with. We have achieved much with our numbers and have much to be proud of. It is up to women to put their shoulders to the door and give it a hard shove, but it is up to Assembly Members to hold that door open and encourage many others to come through.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That this Assembly supports the celebration of International Women's Day 2016 and Assembly Women's Week 2016; affirms its commitment to encouraging more women into politics and public life; acknowledges the importance of the work of the Speaker's reference group on a gender-sensitive Assembly; and advocates the establishment of a women's parliamentary caucus.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

It gives me the greatest possible pleasure to say that the Ayes have it. I do not know whether anybody flunked the challenge.

Executive Committee Business

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I beg to move

That the Rural Needs Bill [NIA 67/11-16] do now pass.

I am absolutely delighted that the Bill has reached its Final Stage and am grateful for the support it has received during its Assembly stages. I do not intend to revisit the provisions of this important Bill in any great detail today. The Assembly has already taken considerable care in scrutinising them.

The Bill has benefited from the close examination that it has received. I take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson and members of the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development for their detailed scrutiny and for the recommendations in the Committee's report, which resulted in a number of amendments being tabled at Consideration Stage. I am pleased that I was able to support those amendments, and I believe that the Bill that we have before us today is stronger as a result. I also want to pay particular thanks to the many stakeholders who have contributed to the development of this Bill. Their advice and contributions have been invaluable. Indeed, many of the amendments made to the Bill throughout its passage came from rural stakeholder groups. I also want to thank OFMDFM, the Office of the Attorney General, the Office of the Legislative Counsel, the Departmental Solicitor's Office, and the Bill Office, which have given us all so much support and advice along the way. I also want to thank the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development Clerk and her staff for their diligence and determination to ensure that the Committee Stage was completed by January. Last but not least, I want to thank my departmental officials who have worked very hard on this Bill, particularly given the time constraints involved.

I also thank Members for their amendments and helpful contributions to the debates on the Bill in its passage through the Assembly. The resulting Bill is legislation that can make a real difference to the lives of rural dwellers. However, the process does not stop here: we need to continue to work hard to make sure that the Bill is effective in ensuring the robust application of rural proofing across all sectors of government.

I think that this is an appropriate moment for me to remind the House of the key principles of the Rural Needs Bill. This Bill is the first of its kind in these islands, and I am pleased to say that the North is leading the way. There has been widespread support from stakeholders for this new Bill. This Bill will require that rural needs are appropriately taken into account by public authorities in policymaking and service delivery. The key principles of the Bill mean that rural issues will be embedded, as a matter of course, in the development and delivery of all government strategies and policies; information on rural proofing will be made available in a transparent way; and government will take a joined-up and collaborative approach in taking account of rural needs when designing public services.

I am conscious that our rural communities are facing even greater challenges due to the impact of reduced budgets on the delivery of public services. It is crucial therefore that government continues to focus on the needs of rural dwellers to ensure that they are not unfairly disadvantaged.

I believe that this Bill will promote a fair and inclusive rural society, where rural dwellers enjoy the same quality of life as others in the North. It not only places a statutory duty on public authorities to have due regard to rural needs in policymaking and service delivery but requires them to compile, and make available in an open and transparent manner, information on how they have met that duty.

The Bill provides a statutory basis for DARD to support rural proofing through the provision of information and guidance, and for arrangements to be put in place to enable public authorities to cooperate and share information, which will help to ensure a more consistent and cohesive approach to addressing rural needs.

Once again, I thank Members for the keen interest that they have shown throughout the Bill's passage through the Assembly. I commend the Bill to the House and am delighted that we have got to this stage.

William Irwin (DUP, Newry and Armagh)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is my pleasure to speak today as Chairperson of the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development. This is an important Bill. It will impose a duty on certain public authorities to have due regard to rural needs, thereby ensuring the more effective implementation of rural proofing across central and local government. Indeed, the Bill, as amended at Consideration Stage, will impose that duty of due regard on a range of other public bodies as listed in schedule 1.

I begin by taking the opportunity to thank the Committee members, Committee Clerk and staff for their hard work on the Bill. I would also like to record the Committee's thanks to the stakeholders who took the time to make written submissions or provide oral evidence. Their contributions and suggestions have undoubtedly resulted in a stronger and more robust Bill.

The Committee and Department worked well together on improving this Bill. I am pleased that many of the amendments requested by the Committee have been incorporated in the Bill that we have in front of us at Final Stage. However, this process was not without its challenges. The Minister certainly took into account the views of the Committee and was willing to bring several amendments at our request. However, the Minister was unable to table certain amendments at Consideration Stage. Instead, after some discussion, the Committee took the decision to table those amendments in its name. I am pleased that they were agreed by the Assembly at Consideration Stage and are now part of the Bill.

I believe that the Bill is all the better for the amendments, as they address a fundamental concern raised by almost all the stakeholders we heard from. As we move forward, it will be important to ensure that the public authorities named in the Bill comply with this duty in a consistent and meaningful way.

If the Bill is to have a real impact on the lives of rural dwellers, it cannot be allowed to become a box-ticking exercise. The Committee requested a number of amendments to the reporting and monitoring arrangements that will help to ensure that this will not happen. As a result of those amendments, the Department is required to publish an annual monitoring report and the Minister must also make a statement to the Assembly. The Bill also includes an amendment put forward by Mr Swann and Mrs Dobson and which was accepted by the Assembly. It concerns the information that should be included in the annual report that will be compiled by the Department. The Committee is satisfied that, as a result of these amendments, the monitoring process will now be much more transparent. This will allow the Assembly and Statutory Committees to hold the Minister and Departments to account in how well they have considered and paid heed to the needs of rural populations. On behalf of the Committee, I commend the Bill to the House.

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I commend the fact that the Bill has reached Final Stage today. I am one of the 37% of people — the 670,000 people — in the North of Ireland who live in a rural area. Whilst I love living in a rural area, like many in the House, I know that there are many advantages and disadvantages in doing so. For example, a lot of people in rural areas experience isolation, and infrastructure can be poor. There is lack of communication and access to services. Areas such as mine in the Sperrins, or in Owenkillew, the super output area, have the worst access to services in the whole of the North.

Many of these issues are compounded by the way in which deprivation is measured. I welcome the fact that there is an ongoing review of the deprivation measures, because there is a strong body of thought and evidence gathering that rural areas are not properly reflected by those measures.

Looking back, the Executive gave a commitment in 2002, and again in 2009, to rural proofing to realise their vision of a fair and inclusive society where all services are equally accessible to people who live in rural areas. However, that vision is not a reality for many rural dwellers. In the Committee's evidence gathering and through our engagement with stakeholders, we found that rural proofing was not properly embedded. We heard many times that it was a bolt-on or an add-on, or that it was patchy, but certainly that it was not effective. I welcome the fact that the Minister and the Department have taken the initiative to create statutory protections and embed rural proofing in legislation.

My party does not see this as the end. As the Minister quite rightly said a moment ago, this is not the end. The legislation has to be robustly implemented to ensure that we arrive at a fair and equitable rural society. We are looking at the broader picture. Our colleague Martin Ferris introduced a similar piece of legislation, through a private Member's Bill, in Leinster House, which we have been working on jointly across the island. That Bill has been introduced and he plans to move ahead with it in the new mandate following the election. We are looking at this not just in the context of across the island but in the context of CAP reform. We have seen a lot of changes in the way in which CAP is going to be implemented, with the North being treated as a single region, progressing towards an equal single farm payment rate and a well-funded rural development programme of £623 million, which is to be rolled out over the coming years. Tackling rural poverty and social isolation (TRPSI) and LEADER funding are also very important, and the NISRA review of the deprivation measures, which I referred to earlier, will be very important in achieving fairness and equity in rural areas.

We spent hundreds of hours debating and thrashing out these issues in the Committee. Stella is in the Public Gallery and I want to commend her and her Committee team for their very hard work in moving this on. Astrid, Louise and others made themselves available to the Committee at every opportunity. They fielded questions and provided answers as and when requested.

I made the point at the Bill's previous stage that this is very much a grass-roots Bill. None of the amendments to the Bill came from a political party or from MLAs; they came from the grass-roots stakeholder organisations. We thrashed it through the Committee and the House, and we feel that we have come up with a very good Bill. This part of Ireland is leading the way in Europe as the first region to legally protect rural needs in legislation, and that is something that we are very proud of.

At risk of missing some out, I will mention some of the organisations that came before the Committee: the Rural Support Networks; RCN; RDC; NILGA; SOLACE; UFU; NIAPA; and, indeed, the DARD officials, who are always on hand to provide answers and information as and when required. So this is very much the people's legislation. It came from the grass roots, and that is something that we are very proud of. We see it as a huge step forward in helping to create a fair and equitable rural society. On behalf of my party, I commend the Bill. Like many others who live in rural areas, we eagerly await its implementation.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

Will the Member give way?

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Yes.

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

I have heard the Member refer a number of times to this Bill as 'the people's Bill', not party political and all the rest, and I fully agree with him. Is he surprised when he recalls the petition of concern that was tabled by the DUP as regards this Bill?

Declan McAleer (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

It was the DUP's decision to implement that, but I reiterate to the Member that is a Bill that came from the grass roots, and we feel that we have delivered the best possible Bill at this stage. As the legislation progresses and the other organisations come under its clauses, we feel that it will go deeper and stronger towards creating more fair and equitable rural areas.

I commend the Bill. We see it as a good step forward, and I commend the Minister and her Department for bringing it forward. This is a great day.

Jo-Anne Dobson (UUP, Upper Bann)

I am pleased to speak on the Final Stage of this Bill. As I have repeatedly said throughout its passage, the rural White Paper action plan that preceded it left much to be desired. Whilst I am glad that there will be a statutory duty on public authorities to take rural needs into account when developing and implementing government policies and delivering public services, I am still somewhat disappointed with the limited scope of the Bill. In a way, this Bill represents yet another missed opportunity. We only have to look at other parts of the United Kingdom, where there are significantly more protections in place for rural communities. For instance, I tried to place in the Bill a presumption against rural school closures, as exists in Scotland and England, but, given the limited scope of the Bill, it was not possible. Despite the fact that, bizarrely, the DUP and Sinn Féin worked together to block many of our practical amendments, it is better to have a weak Bill than no Bill at all. I hope that the next Minister will revisit that issue.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Final Stage of the Rural Needs Bill. It came about as a result of the rural White Paper and action plan, with a commitment to strive for a fair and inclusive rural society where all rural dwellers enjoy the same quality of life as people residing in urban settings. The objectives of the Rural Needs Bill are to require the effective implementation of rural proofing across central and local government, and other public authorities as may be specified; to establish the role of the Department in providing guidance and advice on rural proofing; and to require cooperation and sharing of best practice between all public authorities covered by the Rural Needs Bill.

Seán Rogers (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that the success of this Bill is dependent not only on local government but on all Departments robustly applying rural proofing to all aspects of their work?

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

Thanks for the intervention. I absolutely agree, it is imperative that, if the Rural Needs Bill is to mean anything, it has to be seen to be working to the advantage of people in rural areas.

Although rural dwellers, while protecting and enhancing the rural environment, enjoy a good quality of life, with that comes many disadvantages, not least the need for a car or reasonable public transport, which brings with it extra costs and a drain on the family budget, and greater distance from the hub of a village or town.

However, it is my experience that people living in the countryside usually contribute to a local church, parish, club and so on and make their own social activities. In some cases, social isolation can affect people and have many negative effects. It is hoped that the Rural Needs Bill will help and encourage rural dwellers to get involved in all local activities, thereby preventing isolation.

I thank the Committee Chair and all members of the Agriculture Committee and, indeed, the staff who supported us. I pay tribute to all the organisations that do sterling work. I will not mention them by name, as Declan mentioned most of them. I am always afraid to name them in case I leave out some important organisation, but they all do sterling work in visiting isolated rural families and homes and giving them much-needed support. I encourage them to continue their work.

In conclusion, I congratulate the Minister for having brought the Bill to the Assembly. I wish it every success. I hope that all those privileged to live, work and play in the countryside will see the benefits and enjoy a better quality of life as a result of the Bill and, indeed, the work of the Assembly.

Oliver McMullan (Sinn Féin, East Antrim)

I do not intend to speak for long, because most of what I would say has been said already. This is a historic day for the Assembly. We have been looking for the Final Stage of the Rural Needs Bill for quite a number of years. I congratulate and commend the Minister, Michelle O'Neill, for bringing the Bill forward.

Rural dwellers — I am one of them — have for a long time been underestimated in their own communities. I served for nearly 20 years as a councillor for a rural area. Year in, year out, it was a fighting match year at rates meetings to get the right money set aside for facilities in rural areas. Hopefully, the Bill will do away with that, because the onus is now on local authorities to have due regard to the rural dweller when developing their policies, looking at rates and setting money aside to develop sports facilities etc. In that respect, this is a historic day.

It costs more money to live in a rural area than it does to live in an urban one. In some cases, it costs nearly £60 a week more to be a rural dweller. The Bill before us puts us all on an equal footing. This is more about equality than anything else, because now we are on an equal footing with urban dwellers. I want to let everybody know the enormity of what has happened today. We are the first region in Europe to introduce this. Another way of looking at it is that nearly an all-Ireland approach has been taken, because, as well as this Bill, there is a similar Bill in Leinster House. All round, it is a historic day.

I finish by thanking Stella and all her staff — they have been really good — and the Chair of the Committee for the way in which he conducted business. I end by once again commending the Minister for putting the measure through. She said from day one that the rural dweller would be listened to and adhered to. She has done that today with the Rural Needs Bill. Go raibh maith agat.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank all the Members who chose to make positive contributions as we get to the Bill's Final Stage. As Members said, this is a great news story for rural communities. That we have reached this stage is something that I am extremely proud of. As an Assembly, we can be proud that we have left a fantastic legacy from this mandate for rural communities by putting it on a statutory footing that the needs of rural communities will be recognised.

Given the day that is in it — International Women's Day — as a Minister I am proud to say that I have led the way in delivering for rural communities and in making sure that we look to a future in which they do not feel disadvantaged and it is on a statutory footing that their needs will be taken into account. This is a great news day for rural communities, and I am so delighted that we have been able to get the Bill to this stage today, alongside all the other positive work that we have done for rural communities. One thing that stands out — I think that Declan McAleer referred to it — is the fact that we have been able to secure the largest ever rural development programme. That will be the largest ever investment in rural communities. Along with this work and the work that we do to tackle poverty and social isolation, that is really good news for rural communities.

I thank everybody once again for their contributions to the debate. I also thank the officials who have worked really hard. We brought this forward in a tight timescale along with other legislation. Thanks to everybody for getting us to this stage. This can only be a strong legacy from this mandate for rural communities.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the Rural Needs Bill [NIA 67/11-16] do now pass.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I call the Minister of Education to move the Final Stage of the Shared Education Bill and open the debate on the Bill.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Iarraim cead an Bille seo a mholadh anois. I beg to move

That the Shared Education Bill [NIA 66/11-16] do now pass.

The Bill, as it stands, represents the culmination of the Education Committee's scrutiny and Members' contributions. The genesis of the Bill was the work of the ministerial advisory group on shared education and, critically, the innovative work that teachers, youth and early years practitioners pioneered — work that informed the development of the shared education policy and of the Bill itself. The Education Committee's inquiry into shared and integrated education and all those who contributed were invaluable in getting to this stage. I thank Committee members, other MLAs and those who took time to make their views known for their important contribution to the Shared Education Bill and debate.

Shared education provides the opportunity to raise educational standards, for young people to learn about each other from each other and for teachers, youth workers and early years practitioners to learn from each other's practice and to share good practice. We have seen that, when we give teachers and other practitioners the necessary space and resources, they are ready to embrace the opportunities that working collaboratively offers. Shared education facilitates a culture of mutual understanding through ongoing and purposeful engagement in learning between children and young people from different community backgrounds. The statutory curriculum provides a core enabling framework to facilitate and promote shared education.

Our curriculum seeks to develop pupils as individuals, as contributors to society and as contributors to the economy and environment. Those who have pioneered shared education have seen evidence of increased self-confidence, self-awareness and self-reflection amongst participants. High-quality shared education opportunities have resulted in improving skills in problem-solving, decision-making and critical and creative thinking. Equally, the opportunity afforded by shared education to make more effective and efficient use of facilities and resources provides a strong economic argument.

The Bill before us today seeks to further realise those benefits by providing a legislative framework to advance shared education. Importantly, the Bill sends a strong signal to the education sector and the wider community that shared education is an integral feature of our education system going forward. The Bill is underpinned by Sharing Works, my policy for advancing shared education. Sharing Works expands on the legislative definition by providing a practical description of how shared education will work in practice. The policy encourages practitioners to go beyond the core components of religious belief and socio-economic background, as set out in the Bill, to encompass all section 75 groups. The policy commits my Department to a series of actions to encourage, facilitate and promote shared education.

Shared education poses no threat to any school, sector, youth work, early years setting or, indeed, community. It provides an opportunity to contribute positively to raising standards, closing the performance gap, increasing access and equality and developing the education workforce. In conclusion, I thank the Education Committee for its scrutiny and the contribution of Members as my Bill passed through the Assembly. Your contribution, as I have said in progressing through the various stages, has ensured that the Bill was strengthened on each occasion.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

Will the Minister give way?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

If it is normal procedure to do so, yes.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford)

I very much welcome the statement the Minister made this morning. However, does he agree with me that the news coming over the media this morning does not concur with what he just said? It was about a reduction by two hours in school for the special education people. To me, that seems to contradict what you have been saying about shared education.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I will point out that that is not what we are discussing today. You should concentrate on the business before us, please.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

The Member may be aware that the Speaker is considering a question for urgent oral answer. If it is accepted by the Speaker, I am more than happy to respond to it and to set out my position clearly on the announcement that was made this morning, but I take on board the Speaker's ruling.

Molaim an Bille seo don Tionól. I commend this Bill to the Assembly.

Peter Weir (DUP, North Down)

As indicated, there will be an opportunity, potentially today, to discuss that issue, and I certainly know that the Minister is appearing before the Committee to deal with other education issues. Unsurprisingly, I will concentrate on the Final Stage of the Shared Education Bill. I will speak initially as the Chair, and then I will make some remarks in a party capacity.

We are here again at the conclusion of yet another education Bill. As the House is aware, this is the second time an education Bill has successfully gone through Committee Stage and reached Final Stage, and we may reach a third education Bill next week. On behalf of the Committee, I congratulate the Minister, his officials and, indeed, Committee members and Members of the House for achieving this milestone.

This Bill is an important piece of legislation. Primarily, it provides a statutory definition of shared education. During our recent inquiry into shared and integrated education and on a number of occasions during this mandate, stakeholders called for formal legislative duties to be placed on the Department for shared education. The Committee very much supports the principle of greater sharing between schools. However, members did not want to see the application of legislative duties until the Department provided clarity on the meaning of shared education. I am pleased to say that the Bill clearly does that.

I think Members wanted to include in the Bill the definition of shared education that we had determined during our inquiry. The Assembly did not quite do that, and the House did something a little bit more radical, which the Committee had been persuaded to reject. The Bill, consequently, now includes a so-called purposes clause, which neatly summarises all the things that we expect shared education to deliver: educational benefit; respect for identity and diversity; good relations; equality of opportunity; and efficient use of resources. I, therefore, commend the House on its sagacity and ingenuity.

I indicated at earlier stages of the Bill that the Committee's exchanges with the Department and the Minister could be characterised as professional and cooperative, and I am happy to reiterate that today. If it is not too early to talk about the next mandate, I trust that whoever is on the Education Committee and in the Minister's place will continue to make use of the productive relationship that has been established between the Department and the current Education Committee.

On behalf of the Committee, I commend the amended Shared Education Bill to the House and indicate, I think, the assent of the majority of Committee members that the Final Stage do now pass.

I will turn now to speaking as a DUP Member. Again, I welcome the passage of the Bill. In many ways, it provides a statutory definition and clarity. In part, things are already happening, and we are looking to build on those. At times, we are very keen to criticise the system and to see where things are going wrong, but let us acknowledge that, on the ground, within and between a lot of schools, there is a lot of good practice and a considerable amount of sharing. I, as Chair of the Education Committee, and, indeed, others see good practice happening daily. I believe it is important that we have this step change in shared education to give us a definition and to put the duty very much on a statutory footing.

It is, perhaps, unsurprising, that, during the passage of the Bill, some concerns were raised, probably coming from two sources. As the Minister reiterated, when you are dealing with a concept, rather than a new sector, that is then being put into legislation, there is, naturally, going to be a certain level of nervousness. Critics of the Minister, with some level of paranoia, will see anything he does as having some sort of sinister or Machiavellian undertone. Perhaps they are right nine times out of 10, but, on this occasion, that paranoia is ill-founded.

The concern has come from two fronts. First, at Second Stage, concerns were raised by Members who, like me, support grammar schools and academic selection, that this was a Trojan Horse meant to wreck the current system. I am sure that if the Minister could build a Trojan Horse he would be happy to do so, but he would acknowledge that the accusation is completely false in that regard. That is not what the Bill is about.

Similarly and, I think, understandably, particularly as we moved to Consideration Stage and Further Consideration Stage, some had a genuine concern that the Bill might be an attempt to replace integrated education by providing a new sector to undermine it. That is not the concept of the Bill, which is about providing shared education within the broader framework of education. It is not about creating a new sector or further fracturing the education system; it is about trying to build it together.

I believe strongly that the progress that we are making in shared education is good. Quite often, the focus has been on the benefit to society as a whole and to community relations, and rightly so. Creating much more sharing between schools and individual pupils can only be good. We have to recognise, given where Northern Ireland has come from and the layout of schools at present, that we are not starting from a blank page. Consequently, where progress can be made, and it may be in different areas and in different locations, it should be able to happen at different speeds. That is to be embraced.

The focus in shared education is not always on the benefit of providing greater resource efficiency, although the Committee had a strong focus on that. We all know that the cuts from Westminster put pressure on the broader budgets when trying to deliver the best possible education. If shared education is a road to using resources in the most efficient way, it should be welcomed.

Finally on objectives, which are in the clause on purposes, another key driver in shared education will be that improvement in educational attainment is at the heart of it. Part of the definition in the Bill is that sharing should be not only on a societal but on a socio-economic basis. The hope is that cooperation between schools will help to lift standards, which we should aspire to for all children, whatever their background. If that is a positive outcome of shared education, we can also greatly welcome it.

The Bill is a positive step forward. As with all legislation, the key test will come in the next mandate as we move to implementation and how it works on the ground. It is important that the same effort and attention given to the Bill be applied to the delivery of its objectives by the education system. I suspect that the House can unite on that.

I think that we have a good Bill. I welcome the work of the Committee in seeking to strengthen it where possible, and I think that it is a good example of cooperation between the Committee and departmental officials in trying to reach this virtuous outcome. It was a good Bill to start with, but it improved during the process. On behalf of the Committee, and as a DUP MLA, I commend the Bill to the House.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I am pleased to speak for the Ulster Unionist Party at Final Stage. The party has always been positive about shared education since it first became part of educational parlance in the wake of the Bain report, nearly 10 years ago. That does not mean, however, that we are not critical of how the Bill has been presented or how some have interpreted shared education.

Shared education has advanced over recent years without specific legislation: for example, many schools from all sectors have participated in the shared education programme. I recall going on cross-community hikes when I was at high school, in conjunction with the RUC, as it was then.

We had students from the neighbouring Catholic maintained school attending our school to participate in economics A-level classes. That was the extent of sharing way back when I was at school, from my memory at least, but nowadays shared learning partnerships are working very successfully in many areas, including my local area of Magherafelt. We have schools sharing teachers and resources, and now schools are sharing buildings too, so there is great variety in the types of sharing that goes on. That has demonstrated the ability and willingness of our schools, pupils and parents to move to a greater degree of sharing across the traditional religious divide.

Shared education could, and should, be a supportive mechanism for developing other models of long-term sharing, such as jointly managed schools, integrated schools and federations. The Ulster Unionist Party is supportive of innovative solutions for local situations developed by communities for their children. There has been very good research carried out over the years by the Queen's University school of education on shared education, which was built on by the ministerial advisory group report of 2013. Then the Committee conducted an inquiry into shared and integrated education, which provoked some quite heated debate between certain education sectors. In turn, the proposed policy, Sharing Works, built upon the recommendations of the ministerial advisory group. One of the recommendations of that group was for a legislative definition of shared education, which led us to where we are today, namely the Bill's Final Stage. The Shared Education Bill supports the policy with a statutory definition of shared education and provides powers to encourage and facilitate the development of shared education.

At the Bill's Second Stage, we on these Benches made the point that recent debates in the Assembly suggested that there was no consensus on the meaning of shared education or on what the end goal was, if indeed there was one. After the Bill's legislative passage, the question is whether we have made any progress. The answer can probably be found in the debate on amendment Nos 26 and 27 that were tabled to the Employment Bill two weeks ago, rather than the amendments that were made to what was originally a one-page Bill with four clauses. By that I mean, when looking at the future of Northern Ireland, a truly shared education system should mean sharing teaching staff as well as the students attending the schools.

I look at schools across Northern Ireland and see many examples of shared education, with varying degrees of sharing. Some schools are only dipping their toes into the concept of sharing, while others have been successfully sharing resources and ideas and moving between schools for projects for many years. The Bill allows for varied types of sharing to continue, and I trust that the reviewing process will allow for proper analysis of how that sharing increases. The duty upon the Department to encourage, facilitate and promote shared education is crucial to ensuring that sharing increases, not only for improvements in educational achievement but for societal benefits.

As Ulster Unionist education spokesperson, I support the Final Stage of the Shared Education Bill and trust that it will greatly increase the time in which our young people are educated together. I hope that the Education Minister and the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister will consider other ways and means of ensuring that, as well as our young people, our teachers come together to work and to learn.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I also welcome the passage of the Bill. It is a guarded welcome: my level of enthusiasm for it is slightly below what it is when I normally I welcome a Bill's passage. We have been though all that as the Bill has gone through.

Clearly, I am one of the sources that Mr Weir referred to as having some reservations about all of what is going on here. At the end of the day, it is very difficult, and I would not try, to oppose the principle of sharing in education, because it is something that has been going on for years in a less regulated way. Only yesterday, like other members of the Committee, I spent some time with a joint group from the Boys' Model, the Girls' Model and the Mercy College up in north Belfast, who were running a joint politics class, which was excellent. That is actually what my concept of shared education was all along — the delivery of the curriculum and the ability to deliver the full curriculum to all schools, which, individually, might not be able to do so in an efficient way.

As I said, I welcome it. I think Mr Weir mentioned this Trojan Horse nonsense. I do not see any hidden agenda in the Bill. It is a straightforward attempt to bring forward a shared education system. That is to be welcomed, but, as everybody knows by now, I worry about the long-term effect of the extent to which this may deflect the system away from the integrated model and the attempt to bring our schools together in a more formal way than through just a few periods per week, but we will see about that.

I welcome the Minister's strategic review, which has been established. I also put on record, because I did not put it the way I would have liked to the last time we debated this, that the Minister has made considerable efforts to be fair and to promote — although we cannot use the word "promote" in terms of integrated education, only shared. In the last few years, particularly the last couple, he has played his part in giving the integrated sector its place and its fair share of what is to be given out. I am happy to acknowledge that.

We have an ongoing difficulty with the fact that the Shared Education Bill requires the Minister and the Department to facilitate, encourage and promote shared education, whereas the responsibility on the Minister in terms of integrated and, in fact, Irish-medium education, which is obviously close to the Minister's heart, does not include the word "promote". We could argue at length about the strength of the various words, but, if I were to compare "facilitate", "encourage" and "promote", I would be in no doubt as to which had the strongest meaning. It is like "may", "must" and "shall". To me, "promote" means active promotion. I hope that the Minister, whoever it is, because now that he has announced his intention to give up the job, we know that it will not be this Minister — and I wish him well in whatever path he takes — will ensure that there is a level of equality across the sectors.

Another thing, which others have referred to and, I think, on which we are more or less agreed, is that, in a few years' time, it will be possible to assess the success of this project by way of academic achievement, results and outcomes. The other outcome that has been heavily promoted — again, that word — by the authorities is the societal benefits. That is where, perhaps, the jury is out. Frankly, I hope to be proved wrong in this. I hope that, in a few years' time, whoever is here will be able to look at the situation and say, "The shared education agenda was a major step forward in bringing our children together", which is what we are all about; a shared future in a small way.

I also hope that the experience of sharing across sectors and between schools will lead schools, parents and governors to realise that there is no bogeyman here and that their children can be educated together under one roof without having to worry about which sector they come from, where they live or what the type or ethos of the school is, and that they will be able to go to the best school and the nearest school of their choice. That is what I would like to see for all our parents. I will give a guarded welcome to the passage of the Bill.

John McCallister (UUP, South Down)

I am pleased to be asked to contribute at the Final Stage. This is important legislation. The Minister's policy objectives have been important. I think that there has been broad support round the House for that direction of travel, and sharing and building that into our education system is a good thing. It will also help to drive the efficient and effective use of resources. I am pleased that the purpose was put in the Bill at the amending stages.

That is important to recognise.

It has always been important to recognise that the legislation has to be about educational outcomes as much as anything else. It has to be for the long term and be in the DNA of our education system. Shared education cannot be just project-based or for while funding is available. There has to be change across the various sectors in the education system, with the new Education Authority and the Department of Education ensuring that the Bill becomes a meaningful piece of legislation. It must become a vehicle by which to deliver shared education and improved educational outcomes, in conjunction with area-based planning. All those policy initiatives have to come together to ensure that this policy and legislation can be effective, be delivered on — that is important — and add to the societal benefits that we see when we start to share our education system and improve it. Those are key aspects.

I am pleased that a provision was included in the Education Authority legislation and changes included in this Bill. I also commend the Minister for introducing the legislation and for seeking, given that it was late in the mandate, not to use the accelerated passage mechanism but to give the Bill the chance. The work that the Committee carried out for its report was also important in establishing what the legislation would look like. As a result, the Minister has a much-improved Bill. That has been a testament to the work done by the Committee and other Members in debating it.

This is a good day. I know that it is not the largest piece of legislation that has ever passed through the House, but the Bill can and, I hope, will have a significant long-term effect on the way in which our children are educated and the form that that takes, on sharing and on the societal benefits that flow from that. I support the Shared Education Bill passing Final Stage.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil leis na Comhaltaí a chuir le díospóireacht an lae inniu agus leo siúd a chuir spéis sa reachtaíocht seo agus í ar a bealach tríd an Tionól.

I thank the Members who contributed to the debate and those who have taken an interest in the legislation as it passed through the Assembly. I put on record my appreciation to my own departmental officials, who have also been commended by the Chair of the Committee for Education, for their work and commitment that ensured that the Committee was kept fully informed and briefed regarding any concerns that were raised. I also thank them for ensuring that I as Minister was kept fully briefed and up to date with all the progress that was being made throughout.

I am pleased that Members have worked constructively and positively during the Bill's passage. It was a demonstration of how the House can take a shared approach to the benefit of our society. I also concur with the remarks of the Chair that those who are in education positions in the future continue to work in a constructive manner to improve the educational outcomes of all our young people.

The current Programme for Government commits to providing every young person with the opportunity to participate in shared education. Os ár gcomhair inniu tá Bille ar féidir leis sin a fhíorú agus a bhfuil an cumas ann athrú céime a dhéanamh don dóigh ina soláithrítear oideachas anseo. We have before us today a Bill that can make that a reality and that has the potential to bring about a step change in the way in which we deliver education here. It is a Bill that has broad support across the Chamber and in the wider community. It complements other initiatives designed to meet the Executive's commitment to build a strong and shared community.

The opportunity that shared education has afforded us to attract significant European and American philanthropic money shows the international goodwill that there is to support our commitment to build a better and peaceful society. The Bill will provide a lasting legacy of the current Assembly mandate and a firm base from which to advance shared education in the next mandate.

The Bill, underpinned by my Sharing Works policy, is designed to ensure that our young people can learn about each other from each other. It builds on our curriculum and the suite of educational policies that provide a legislative framework for delivery of shared education services. I commend the Bill to the Assembly.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the Shared Education Bill [NIA 66/11-16] do now pass.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I beg to move

That Standing Order 42A(8) be suspended in respect of the Apprenticeships: Information Sharing provisions of the Enterprise Bill.

At the outset, let me say that I very much appreciate the prompt consideration by the Committee for Employment and Learning of my proposal for a legislative consent motion (LCM) in relation to the apprenticeships: information sharing provisions of the Enterprise Bill. I also welcome the Committee's support for the motion, as recorded in its report published last Thursday, 3 March.

Standing Order 42A(8) states that, normally, a legislative consent motion should not be moved until at least five working days after the publication of the relevant Committee report. In normal circumstances, therefore, the debate on the LCM in this case should be held, at the earliest, at one of Assembly plenaries next week.

The reason for moving this today is that the final amending stage for the Bill in the House of Commons is this week and, with it, the risk that the UK Government would feel obliged to remove the extension of the relevant provisions to Northern Ireland in the absence of full Assembly endorsement.

I do not wish to prejudice the outcome of the Assembly's decision on the legislative consent motion. Nevertheless, I feel that it is essential that the Assembly is given the opportunity to make such a decision this week and for that decision to actually mean something as far as the extension of the provisions to Northern Ireland is concerned. Therefore, I would be grateful for the Assembly's agreement to suspend Standing Order 42A(8) to enable me to move the legislative consent motion on apprenticeships: information sharing today. I commend the motion to the House.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I remind Members that the motion requires cross-community support.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved (with cross-community support):

That Standing Order 42A(8) be suspended in respect of the Apprenticeships: Information Sharing provisions of the Enterprise Bill.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I beg to move

That this Assembly endorses the principle of the extension to Northern Ireland of the provisions of the Enterprise Bill dealing with Apprenticeships: Information Sharing as contained in clause 26 of the Bill as amended in Committee Stage in the House of Commons.

I thank the House for its agreement to suspend the Standing Order to allow the debate to proceed on the LCM on apprenticeships: information sharing. I am pleased that I am able to move the legislative consent motion today, given that the need for it was identified only in late January.

The swift progress has been in no small part due to the work of the Employment and Learning Committee in facilitating the briefing by my officials, and reporting on a very demanding schedule. I would also like to express my gratitude to the Committee Chair, as well as the members and staff, for the detailed scrutiny that has been so properly provided in spite of the short time available to them.

The legislative consent motion is required to allow the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to extend provisions in the Enterprise Bill to allow the relevant Northern Ireland authority, namely the new Department for the Economy, to access an information sharing gateway with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to retrieve information relating to the revenue streams relevant to Northern Ireland with respect to the apprenticeship levy.

By way of background, the Westminster Enterprise Bill, sponsored by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, makes provision relating to the promotion of enterprise and economic growth, not all of which will apply to Northern Ireland. However, it is worth noting that a number of provisions in the Enterprise Bill have been the subject of recent debate in this House, specifically in considering provisions in the Bill relating to the extension of powers on the capping of public-sector exit payments and the Small Business Commissioner.

I should say up front that the LCM deals solely with the provision of extending powers for apprenticeships: information sharing and not the apprenticeship levy itself. I would like to stress that the apprenticeship levy is a fiscal measure and is, therefore, a reserved matter, which will be legislated for by the UK Government and will apply across the UK as a whole from April 2017 to the private and public sectors.

The Westminster Bill will put in place a UK-wide information gateway relating to apprenticeships, and, for policy reasons, it is helpful that those provisions extend to Northern Ireland. The information-sharing gateway with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs is a technical issue; nevertheless, it is a practical and important matter in the provision of information that is key to Northern Ireland apprenticeships. It will be essential to avoid an information deficit specific to revenues to and from the apprenticeship levy in Northern Ireland, which would result in a distinct disadvantage for us compared with the rest of the UK. Therefore, it is important to ensure that Northern Ireland can obtain and share information with HMRC.

This function will be vital for transparency on how much Northern Ireland employers are paying into the levy and, importantly, for openness, fairness and equity on exactly how much of the levy is coming back into Northern Ireland. The provisions stipulate that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may disclose information held by it on apprenticeships in Northern Ireland and that the relevant Northern Ireland authority, namely the new Department for the Economy, can request HMRC to disclose information held by it.

In summary, extending the provisions in the Enterprise Bill to Northern Ireland will allow us to access information about levy payments made by employers. That is tax information held by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, and any release of information is permissive. The legislation will enable the Department or other relevant authorities in Northern Ireland to access data on levy payments due from employers in Northern Ireland. It will assist the management of apprenticeship funding in an effective and transparent way. For example, it can help to plan and target funding and to align policies to levy payments made by employers. It can then be used to inform employers of their entitlement to funding. Access to information on levy payments will be simple and efficient and will minimise the administrative burden on businesses, as data will be shared between HMRC and the new Department for the Economy.

Wales and Scotland are bringing forward relevant legislative consent motions within the current mandate to extend powers to enable apprenticeships information sharing with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Therefore, I reiterate that it is important that Northern Ireland is not disadvantaged by a lack of access to information relating to the apprenticeship levy. The ability for Northern Ireland to access and share data with HMRC will ensure greater transparency on the levy revenue streams at a local level. I commend the motion to the House

Robin Swann (UUP, North Antrim)

On behalf of the Committee for Employment and Learning, I will speak to the legislative consent motion concerning the Enterprise Bill, specifically the apprenticeships data-sharing provision. I extend my thanks to the Committee and the staff for facilitating a very tight timeline.

The Enterprise Bill covers a range of business-related policies and was introduced by the UK Government with the aim of supporting the growth of enterprise in the UK. The Bill is going through the House of Commons, and it is anticipated that Royal Assent will be granted at the end of April this year while this place is in purdah. One of the policies that the Enterprise Bill introduces is the apprenticeship levy, which will introduce a tax on all public and private sector businesses in the UK from April 2017 to fund apprenticeships. The levy rate will be 0·5% on all UK employers with a salary bill above £3 million. As taxation is a reserved matter, the Northern Ireland Assembly does not have competence to vote on the issue. The legislative consent motion is required to obtain the Assembly's agreement on the extension of powers to Northern Ireland to open a data-sharing gateway with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs so that relevant data relating to the apprenticeship levy can be obtained and shared between HMRC and the relevant authority in Northern Ireland as provided for in the Westminster Bill.

The Committee was briefed by Department officials on the legislative consent motion on 2 March. The officials explained why the LCM was needed, what it would involve for Northern Ireland and the time pressures involved for the Department. The Committee noted that it is important to avoid an information deficit specific to revenues to and from the apprenticeship levy in Northern Ireland, which would result in a distinct disadvantage for Northern Ireland compared with the rest of the UK. The Department officials confirmed that Scotland and Wales were in a similar position and were moving LCMs through the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. Therefore, the Committee highlighted that Northern Ireland employers needed to be able to obtain and share information with HMRC to ensure that there can be a fair and equitable redistribution of the levies. The data-sharing function provided for by the LCM will be vital for transparency on how much Northern Ireland employers are paying into the levy and how much of the levy is returned to the Northern Ireland Executive.

The Committee raised concerns about the ambiguity regarding how the money would be returned. The Committee was concerned that it had not yet been decided whether that would be done via a Barnett consequential or another method. It was also highlighted that, when the money was returned to the Executive, it would be unhypothecated and so would not be designated to support the DEL apprenticeship strategy nor Generating our Success — the Northern Ireland strategy for youth training. The Committee was of the opinion that any money returned to the Executive should be earmarked to ensure that it is used for training and apprenticeships.

During the briefing, the Committee asked departmental officials to provide an estimate of how much Northern Ireland employers could pay to support the UK Government's commitment to deliver three million apprenticeship starts in England. The officials advised that initial estimates suggested that it could be in the region of £42 million per year.

The Committee raised concerns about the number of Northern Ireland employers liable to pay the apprenticeship levy. The officials advised that current calculations suggested that, if a company paid the median wage, any company with about 125 employees or more would be eligible; if it paid only the minimum wage, any company with roughly 225 employees or more would be eligible. The Committee noted that the levy would be applied on the basis of an employer's annual pay bill, not the number of employees.

The Committee published its report on its consideration of the legislative consent motion concerning the Enterprise Bill's apprenticeships data-sharing provisions on 2 March. On behalf of the Committee, I support the legislative consent motion, which will ensure that DEL has clear information about the amount of money being paid into the apprenticeship levy by Northern Ireland companies. However, the Committee wishes to highlight the fact that the Executive should seek to redirect any returned money to training and apprenticeships.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

I support the legislative consent motion. The background to the Bill was clearly set out by the Minister and the Chair of the Committee. Not being a devolved matter, it is something that we have little control over. However the importance of the legislative consent motion for data sharing, predominantly from HMRC, should not be underestimated, as it allows us to gain data and transparency on what Northern Ireland employers in the public and private sectors have contributed to the levy pot as a whole.

While we examine the rationale behind the 0·5% levy on those with an annual pay bill of over £3 million solely for the purpose of the training of apprentices, the main concern is that the money returned to the Northern Ireland Executive is not ring-fenced for that specific purpose. Therefore, there is concern that it may not be used in its entirety for apprentice training. When we look at the challenges in our constituencies in getting young people in disadvantaged areas or who are economically inactive into apprenticeships and on into employment, it is important — even imperative — that we do all that we can to ensure that the money returned is earmarked solely for apprentice training. That is the only way that we will reap the full benefit and value of the levy that is being taken from our large employers in Northern Ireland.

An estimated return in the region of £42 million, if directed and targeted at the areas where it should go for apprentice training, should make an immense difference in the workplace and to unemployment levels. It is imperative that each of us does what we can to ensure that the money returned is directed at the purposes for which it is intended. If it is directed in that way, we will reap the benefits.

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Chair and the Deputy Chair for their contributions. I anticipate the support of the House for the LCM.

I will respond to the comments collectively. The Chair and the Deputy Chair reflected on the necessity that we have a clear line of sight of the revenue that is generated in Northern Ireland by local companies, how it will feed into our approach of ensuring that we receive the full return of that money so that it can be reinvested in Northern Ireland and associated issues in relation to the flow of resources. Without that, we will be operating potentially blind, and our ability to hold the Westminster Government to account on what is our due will be severely curtailed. I welcome the appreciation of the necessity to have this in place as a lever to ensure that we have transparency in this matter.

The Chair and the Deputy Chair have alluded to the wider policy and financial implications that flow from this, and I think that we are very much at one in this regard. While, today, we have the opportunity to pass what is in essence a technical matter regarding information transparency and information flow, there are some very important issues that we will have to address as an Executive and, indeed, as an Assembly over the coming 12 months until the point when the levy goes live in April 2017. I do have deep concerns about the levy and its implications for Northern Ireland. These concerns are shared by my counterparts in Scotland and Wales. Indeed, we have met and discussed this on a number of occasions and also have met collectively with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, as have my officials and those Departments' respective officials, to express our concerns.

This is essentially a tax on employment, and, on the one hand, at a time when we are on the brink of having a greater degree of incentive through a lower rate of corporation tax, at the same time, that incentive is being blunted by this levy. It also will work as a bit of a blunt instrument for different companies that may be in different places with training. For example, we have had the recent news that Bombardier is not well placed to engage in training, given what is obviously happening with its current situation globally. Elsewhere in the UK there may well be other businesses that are in difficult economic times — for example, the oil and gas sector — and which may not be interested in training at this time and which pay this levy nonetheless. There are major issues at a UK level about the wisdom of this policy, but there is also the potential for this to walk across the devolution settlement with our own discretion on how we set our own skills and training policies locally and the distortion that will flow in that regard.

Phil Flanagan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for giving way, and I have no difficulty in supporting this request for information sharing, but I have two short questions. First, he said that this is a tax on employment. Does he have any sort of a headline figure as to what the scale of the financial implications of this will be for local employers? Secondly, can he give some information on how this information will be used? For example, if this information shows that there is less money coming back here through this levy than is being paid out by employers, what scope will there be for the Department for the Economy or any other statutory authority to challenge that or to seek additional investment?

Stephen Farry (Alliance, North Down)

I welcome the Member's intervention. To answer the second point, there are procedures in place between the UK Government and the three devolved Administrations around addressing issues where there is, shall we say, default on either policy issues or, indeed, financial issues. It is in that respect that it is so important that we have this clear line of sight on the revenue that is being raised in Northern Ireland, to make sure that we can properly police it. It is our hope that the transfer back to Northern Ireland will be through the Barnett formula, and the figures that Members are talking about may well be the ultimate figure. It could potentially be slightly higher. That will come back into the central pot, and, quite rightly, the Chair and Deputy Chair have commented on the importance of this money being redirected back into supporting skills and, specifically, apprenticeships and other forms of training. At the very least, given that local companies will be paying this, I think that there will be an expectation from the business community that it will see that money recycled by the Executive into those types of provisions. Those are all issues that still need to be addressed, of course, by the incoming Executive after the election, but, if there is a strong consensus across the political parties that that is the way to go, I am sure that that will be the course of action that the Executive will take in due course.

In response to the Chair and Deputy Chair, work is ongoing in relation to ensuring that Northern Ireland's interests are taken into account in decisions in this regard. Beyond my own and my officials' engagement with our counterparts in Scotland and Wales and also with BIS, the First Minister and deputy First Minister have written on behalf of the Executive to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to ensure that, in wider discussions at Cabinet level, our particular interests are taken into account and, in particular, that concern and consideration is given to ensuring that the proper resourcing returns to Northern Ireland.

In a similar light, when I speak to the Secretary of State later this afternoon about the matter, I will reinforce the points that have been made and reflect to her the comments made by Members during this debate today. The Department of Finance and Personnel is also making representations to Her Majesty's Treasury — in particular, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Greg Hands — about the issue of transparency and the need to ensure that we get what is due to us through Barnett as part of the apprenticeship levy. Those efforts and discussions are continuing, and we will continue with that right through to the election and beyond.

I reiterate that this is a much wider policy debate today. There is an emerging consensual view in the House about the risks of this approach and the need for mitigating measures. Today, however, we are focusing purely on having a solid foundation for clear transparency around information sharing on what is being generated in relation to the apprenticeship levy. It is very much in our interests as an Administration to ensure that, whatever the future holds, we have a solid foundation based upon the evidence regarding financial matters.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That this Assembly endorses the principle of the extension to Northern Ireland of the provisions of the Enterprise Bill dealing with Apprenticeships: Information Sharing as contained in clause 26 of the Bill as amended in Committee Stage in the House of Commons.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The next item of business is a motion to approve a statutory rule.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I beg to move

That the draft Judicial Pensions (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

Schedule 13 to the Pensions Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 provides for the abolition of contracting out of public service pension schemes by way of an amendment to the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993. The 2015 Act introduces the date of 6 April 2016 for the abolition of contracting out of salary-related schemes. These amendments to primary legislation require a technical change to the Judicial Pensions Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2015 to ensure the continued protection of guaranteed minimum pension benefits for scheme members who were contracted out of the second state earnings related pension scheme between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997. The same technical changes are required in respect of all Northern Ireland public service pension schemes.

The draft regulations before the House have been the subject of a targeted consultation. All members of the Northern Ireland judicial pension scheme, as well as representative judicial bodies and associations, were pre-notified of the consultation, which ran from 6 November to 20 November last year. No specific comments were received. The draft regulations have also been subject to an equality screening exercise, and no equality issues were identified.

On 18 February this year, the Justice Committee agreed that it was content with the draft regulations, and it is with its support that I bring forward and commend these regulations to the House.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I am pleased to speak very briefly on this motion today on behalf of the Committee for Justice. I see from the number of MLAs in the Chamber that this motion has generated quite a bit of excitement amongst our colleagues.

As the Minister outlined, the statutory rule before us today makes a technical amendment to existing rules for judicial pensions contained in the Judicial Pensions Regulations 2015. It will ensure the protection of increases to guaranteed minimum pension after the abolition of contracting out, following the introduction of the Pensions Act (Northern Ireland) 2015.

In December 2015, the Committee noted the detail of the proposed changes, and, more recently at the meeting on 18 February 2016, it considered the statutory rule itself. At that meeting, the Department advised members that two aspects initially proposed in December — the extension of transitional protection portability to eligible fee-paid judicial office holders and the removal of negligence as a basis for forfeiture and set-off of pension — were not being taken forward due to slippage in the Ministry of Justice's timetable in introducing similar legislation. The Committee also noted that the Examiner of Statutory Rules confirmed in his report, issued on 1 February 2016, that he had no issues to raise with regard to the technical aspects of the rule.

At our meeting on 18 February 2016, the Committee agreed to recommend that the statutory rule be affirmed by the Assembly and, therefore, supports the motion today.

Stewart Dickson (Alliance, East Antrim)

I am supportive of the Minister's motion today in respect of judicial pensions. Mr Speaker, for ease of reference, there are two further motions on the agenda that also affect the Department of Justice, and although they are not connected to this one, I will save time by saying now that I will be supporting each of them.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

Thank you very much.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

As usual, I welcome the support from the vast number of Members who spoke and, indeed, from the huge crowds who are here. I suspect that Mark Carruthers and the entire BBC 'Stormont Today' team are hunched over their laptops watching their screens in the basement, desperate to know which of the three issues they will particularly highlight.

Actually, this is a serious issue, and I genuinely thank the Committee again for the work that it puts into scrutinising such legislation. I commend the motion to the House.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

I cannot put the Question, as we are not quorate. I ask the Clerk to ring the Division Bells. That will spoil lunch.

Notice taken that 10 Members were not present. House counted, and, there being fewer than 10 Members present, the Speaker ordered the Division Bells to be rung. Upon 10 Members being present —

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the draft Judicial Pensions (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I beg to move

That the draft Violent Offences Prevention Order (Notification Requirements) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

I will try to keep going for as long as the quorum is here.

The aim of the draft regulations is to increase public protection against the risk of violent reoffending. The Justice Act 2015 contains the primary legislation for the introduction of violent offences prevention orders (VOPOs) and includes a power to make regulations prescribing the information to be notified to the police by an offender made subject to an order. The draft regulations that I propose are being made under that statutory power.

As part of the new provisions, a violent offender made subject to a court order will be required to notify certain personal details to the police in the same manner as is already required for sex offenders. The draft regulations set out in detail the information that will be required in addition to the standard material required by provisions of the Act.

Those made subject to one of the new orders will be required to provide certain basic personal information to police, such as their name, date of birth, National Insurance number and home address. Such information assists in the prevention and investigation of crime and in protecting the public from the risk of further offending. The primary provisions in the Justice Act require that the information provided at initial notification must be updated by the offender periodically — normally annually — or when any changes occur. Failure to comply with the requirements is a criminal offence punishable by a maximum penalty of five years' imprisonment.

The draft regulations will require an offender who has no fixed abode or regular address to notify the police every week so that they can confirm a place where they can be found. That will help the police to monitor individuals better in those circumstances. The regulations will require an offender to notify the police if they have resided or stayed for 12 hours or more at an address where there is a child under the age of 18. That will help ensure that there is a focus on child protection. Offenders will also have to give information to the police about any bank accounts or credit and debit cards held by them alone or with another person for private and business purposes. Passport details and other forms of ID will also be required. Finally, the regulations set out the information to be provided on travel outside the United Kingdom. Offenders must notify all travel outside the United Kingdom, except when they travel to the Republic of Ireland, where they must notify when they intend to travel for a period of three or more days. That less onerous requirement on cross-border travel is a practical necessity for those who routinely cross the border.

The concept of notification is, of course, familiar to many. It has long been the case that sex offenders have had to notify, and the arrangements mirror that regime with one difference. Sex offenders are required to notify as a result of a conviction for a sexual offence, and the length of their notification period is tied to the severity of the sentence. In the case of violent offenders, the notification requirements are attached only to offenders who have been made subject to a violent offences prevention order, and the requirements will last only as long as the order is in place.

That difference illustrates the much wider spectrum of violent offending and the need to concentrate risk management efforts where they are most needed.

The draft regulations are a further step towards the Department's continuing commitment to increase public protection and enhance confidence in the justice system's ability to deliver on that aim. The police and probation service support these notification measures, which they believe will assist them in managing the risk of violent reoffending. I am confident that the regulations that we are debating today will help them in those efforts.

I again thank the members of the Justice Committee for their work in scrutinising the regulations. It is with their support that I bring the regulations before the House and commend them to Members.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

I will endeavour to be brief and will not rehearse the detail of the proposed statutory rule. However, I wish to remind Members of the Committee's consideration of the violent offences prevention orders during the deliberations on the Justice Bill during the last Assembly session. At that point, the Committee agreed that it was content with the policy intent in the Justice Bill to introduce VOPOs as an important tool to assist the criminal justice agencies in the management of risk from violent offending. The Committee acknowledged the benefit of the use of VOPOs as a preventative measure that would benefit both the offender, by helping to prevent the committal of further offences, and those affected by crime, by reducing the risk and the fear of crime.

As part of its consideration of the VOPO provisions, the Committee considered and was content with the information that an offender must provide to police when they first make a notification and the timescale within which they were required to provide that information. The Committee was also content with the delegated powers to allow the Department the flexibility to impose further notification requirements by order on the offender as might be considered appropriate at a future stage. It is those further notification requirements that are being considered by the Assembly today. The Department advised the Committee of its intention to bring forward further notification requirements in June 2015, and, after considering the detail of the additional notification requirements, the Committee agreed that it was content with the proposal at its meeting on 2 July 2015.

The Committee considered the statutory rule, which is required to bring the additional notification requirements into effect, at its meeting on 25 February 2016 and noted that the Examiner of Statutory Rules had confirmed that he had no issues to raise with regard to the technical aspects of the rule. The Committee agreed to recommend to the Assembly that the rule be approved, and, therefore, I support the motion proposed by the Minister today.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

As is customary at this point on secondary legislation, I thank all Members who have contributed and the vast array of Members who have shown their interest by being present in the House. I commend the regulations and ask Members to support the motion.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the draft Violent Offences Prevention Order (Notification Requirements) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I beg to move

That the draft Civil Legal Services (Scope) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

The draft statutory rule is made under article 12(6) of the Access to Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2003. Members will recall that, last year, I brought forward legislative amendments to introduce civil legal services under the 2003 Order. The effect of those changes was to move the legislation governing civil legal aid from statutes dating back to 1981 to a more modern statutory framework. In bringing forward what was a comprehensive suite of legislative changes, a number of technical errors occurred. The draft statutory rule before the House rectifies that oversight.

I will provide clarity for Members. In April 2015, the provisions in articles 10 to 20A of the 2003 Order were commenced, replacing all the legal advice and assistance and civil legal aid legislative provisions from the previous framework provided under Part II of the Legal Aid, Advice and Assistance (Northern Ireland) Order 1981. In drafting the instruments, it became apparent that representation for certain proceedings previously provided for was not provided for in article 12(5) of or schedule 2 to the 2003 Order as a service that may be funded as a civil legal service.

Six classes of proceedings have been identified: proceedings under articles 44 or 45 of the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989; proceedings under paragraphs 29 or 36 of schedule 8 to the Terrorism Act 2000; proceedings under article 31B of the Matrimonial and Family Proceedings (Northern Ireland) Order 1989; proceedings before the Parole Commissioners for Northern Ireland; proceedings before the care tribunal under the Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 or the Education (Prohibition from Teaching or Working with Children) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2007; and proceedings under Part XIIIA of the Prison and Young Offenders Centre Rules (Northern Ireland) 1995.

Legal aid was available for eligible applicants for all these proceedings under the 1981 order, and the draft statutory rule before the House replicates that position. In addition, the draft scope regulations will amend schedule 2 to the 2003 order to preclude the availability of civil legal services to any guardian ad litem for the purposes of any proceedings under the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. Again, that change reflects the previous provision made in article 10(5A)(d) of the 1981 order.

These draft regulations, as Members will appreciate as I read them out, are technical and do not make any changes to the eligibility of those applying for legal aid, nor do they change the remuneration payable to legal representatives. They repair lacunae created by a drafting error. I commend the draft statutory rule to the House.

Alastair Ross (DUP, East Antrim)

This rule mainly contains technical amendments that reinstate certain provisions that were previously provided for prior to the commencement of the Access to Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 in April 2015. The amendments will restore a range of proceedings not covered under the scope of civil legal services and will bring them back into line with prior legislation.

In November 2015, the Committee noted the detail of the proposals and considered the statutory rule itself more recently at its meeting on 25 February. The Committee noted that the policy intention of the rule is to bring within its scope proceedings in a court of summary jurisdiction relating to declarations of parentage, applications for warrants of further detention and extensions of warrants of further detention. The Examiner of Statutory Rules also confirmed that he has no issues to raise on the technical aspects of the rule. At our meeting on 25 February, the Committee agreed to recommend that the statutory rule be affirmed by the Assembly and, therefore, supports the motion today.

David Ford (Alliance, South Antrim)

I do not need to repeat my usual joke. Given that this is probably the last piece of secondary legislation that I will present to the Assembly at any stage, I repeat my genuine thanks to the Committee for the work it does in scrutinising what is a very significant amount of legislation and number of policy proposals that go through the Justice Committee. I am not sure whether those Members who volunteered to be members of the Justice Committee, most notably the Chair and the Deputy Chair, realised quite what they were walking into when they accepted office in it, as it has a significant burden of very serious work to do. It is in that context that very serious attention is given to legislation such as this, and I appreciate very much the work that they have done over a number of pieces of legislation, not just the set of draft regulations that is before us today.

I also note that, given that the Committee Chair has referred on three occasions today, I think, to the work of the Examiner of Statutory Rules, we are coming close to the point when Mr Gordon Nabney will be retiring from that role. We should acknowledge the very significant amount of work he has put in on behalf of DOJ, never mind for the other 11 Departments. I add my thanks to him whilst noting the unanimous support of Members for the proposals that I put forward.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the draft Civil Legal Services (Scope) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2016 be approved.

Mitchel McLaughlin (Speaker, South Antrim)

The Business Committee has arranged to meet around this time. I propose, therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to suspend the sitting until 2.00 pm. The first item of business when we return will be Question Time.

The sitting was suspended at 1.03 pm.

On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair) —

Oral Answers to Questions — Finance and Personnel

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I advise Members that questions 2, 5 and 10 have been withdrawn.

Claire Hanna (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

1. Ms Hanna asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline the reasons for the delay to the reform of libel laws. (AQO 9810/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Unfortunately, the Northern Ireland Law Commission ceased operations in 2015 before it had completed its review of the law of defamation in Northern Ireland. We were able to secure the services of Dr Andrew Scott, who had been undertaking the review on behalf of the commission. However, that break in the handling arrangements has inevitably impacted on the overall timetable, as has the additional work that Dr Scott undertook as a follow-up to the commission's consultation. We are, however, hopeful that Dr Scott's final report will be submitted to the Department by the end of this month.

Claire Hanna (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I appreciate that there were delays with the commission and so on, but reform is clearly in the public interest. Indeed, a survey of people with a specific interest in that field found that they overwhelmingly — plus-90% — thought that the law should have been reformed. Will the Minister outline the reasons why the law was not changed through a legislative consent motion in 2012 when it was changed across the water? Were there any reasons why the then Finance and Personnel Minister —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Member has asked her question.

Claire Hanna (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— appeared to block that?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Obviously, there are differing accounts of how the 2013 Act is handled. I believe that it was appropriately handled by the Department. There is nothing to be gained by going over old ground; the important thing is that Northern Ireland will have had the benefit of a thorough and independent review. My predecessor is looking forward not only to having the report but to seeing how Dr Scott's recommendations can be dealt with in due process.

A number of Members in other ways have asked whether the report will be laid before the Assembly. The laying process was triggered by the Law Commission sending a copy of its report to the Department of Justice. If the commission is no longer in existence, that trigger will, unfortunately, no longer occur.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

3. Mr Givan asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel how councils and the private sector can work in partnership to use financial transactions capital finance for economic development projects outside Belfast. (AQO 9812/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Financial transactions capital (FTC) can be used only for loans to, or equity investment in, a private sector entity. Therefore, it cannot be accessed directly by councils. However, it is possible for councils to work with private sector bodies to utilise FTC. All financial transactions capital allocations require a sponsoring Department. Therefore, any organisation wising to explore the use of FTC should contact the relevant Department. Alternatively, the Strategic Investment Board will be able to assist.

Once the Northern Ireland investment fund is operational, there will be a separate process for engagement on accessing its funding.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Finance Minister for that response. He will be familiar with the Knockmore-Sprucefield link road scheme in my constituency. Is that the type of scheme that the fund could access, with councils and the Department for Regional Development engaging with the private sector to unlock the huge potential that exists in that part of the constituency? How does the investment fund —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Member has asked his question. Minister.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Well, I was about to ask the question.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. I can anticipate what he was going to ask about the investment fund. Let me address the issue about the council and the very particular issue that the Member raises. It is a concern that has been raised across a number of local authorities. There have been a number of engagements with councils on FTC funding, including the possibility of the Arc21 project availing itself of FTC. The project that the Minister — sorry, the Member; maybe that was saying things that are going to happen in the future — refers to is in that category of projects that should be seriously considered. The previous Finance Minister, Simon Hamilton, met SOLACE on that very issue in March last year. In addition, the issue of FTC was raised by council officials in a recent meeting with DFP officials on the investment plan for Europe.

The investment fund will be available for the Executive to deploy available financial transactions capital, and those two elements brought together should give a financial package that gives local authorities some certainty that there will be other streams of finance open to them.

Máirtín Ó Muilleoir (Sinn Féin, Belfast South)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Has the use of FTC that we have seen in universities been a good use of that money? Is that something that we can focus on in the time ahead? I am thinking in particular of Ulster University and Queen's University, with its new law centre and students' centre.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

It is. The Executive have made a commitment to ensuring that we enhance the facilities of our education providers. That relates not only to capital in our schools but in our further and higher education colleges and our universities. Look at the amount of FTC that is available: the Executive will receive £113 million next year, compared with the £129 million that was available in 2015-16. Obviously, the level of financial transactions capital available to the Executive will decline over the spending review period, with some £54 million available in 2021. While there are many demands on the FTC pot, every opportunity should be taken to utilise what is a valuable resource and a valuable financial tool that has been given to us. I look forward, as my predecessor did, to ensuring that we maximise the benefits to Northern Ireland and to the project that the Member referred to.

Fearghal McKinney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

In two reasonably recent presentations to separate Committees, the Enterprise Committee was told that there is reasonable expertise within Invest NI on accessing FTC, while the Health Committee was told that it is notoriously difficult, despite the fact that it has set aside £10 million to spend. How can we achieve best practice among civil servants in accessing such funding?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member raises a valid point about how, across the piece, we need to ensure that the various Departments are working with the same objectives and views. Obviously, FTC is ring-fenced by the Treasury and must be used to provide loan or equity investment to private sector entities. However, as I said in response to the substantive question, if there is a third party that can be utilised, that will open the opportunity to maximise that amount of money.

I am certainly keen to ensure that Departments continue to work together, not only on this issue but across the piece. Whether it is this particular funding or other schemes that we have introduced during this mandate, the bottom line for me, as Finance Minister, is that we utilise and maximise the total amount of money that is available to Northern Ireland plc and that those funds are used to their full potential, whether it is the Department of Health, the Department with responsibility for transport or whatever. None of us wants to be in the position where the money available to us is not spent in the best possible way.

Alastair Patterson (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his responses thus far. The Budget anticipates some £55 million financial transactions capital being available in 2016-17 for the Northern Ireland investment fund. Will that figure be increased by the year-end carry-forward, and is it clear that the fund can be used for economic development projects?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

We want to ensure that we can increase the amount of money that is available. In outlining the overall profile of the amount of money, I said that, this year, we will receive £113 million of FTC, compared with the £129 million that was available in 2015-16.

There will certainly be a particular pressure that is always the case in relation to the financial structures that we have. As to whether the money can be used for the purposes that the Member has indicated, I want to see the money utilised in the best possible way across a wide range of services, so that — as I have said to the Member previously — we maximise and utilise this financial resource to the benefit of Northern Ireland plc.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

4. Mr A Maginness asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what criteria will be used to determine the allocation of money from the Northern Ireland community finance fund to community groups. (AQO 9813/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. As required under the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act 2008, my Department will now direct the Big Lottery Fund to develop a strategic plan for the utilisation of the fund in Northern Ireland. That strategic plan will be laid before the Assembly and will include details of how the fund will operate, including criteria for accessing it.

The community finance fund will provide a unique and innovative funding opportunity for social investment in Northern Ireland. It will help to improve access to finance for a range of organisations across the third sector, such as social enterprises and church and smaller community-based groups. The third sector plays a vital role in Northern Ireland, but its development and growth has been constrained by a lack of affordable finance. The fund will enable such organisations to make further investment in their activities, grow their organisations and become self-sustaining through the availability of finance. Access to that financial support will help to increase their revenue and resources and, I trust, enhance the level of social benefit that they deliver to their communities.

Alban Maginness (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for his detailed reply. It is an exciting opportunity for those in the third sector, particularly social and church groups. On the issue of criteria, will there be an opportunity for assistance to be given to encourage recipients or beneficiaries to establish themselves as mutuals or, indeed, as cooperatives?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. It is an interesting concept. One of the purposes that we want to achieve with the fund — this has caused some discussion — relates to the fact that, in most cases, funds are allocated on the basis of grants. We have tried to say that, as an incentive and as a way of getting the balance right so that we encourage the long-term sustainability of groups, we would have a combination of grants and loans. Where that would take an organisation and how it would develop over time needs to be given thought and consideration. Obviously, we are in the stages of going out to appoint a third party to deliver the fund, and I want to ensure that we have given the maximum opportunity to a wide variety of organisations, some of which feel that the current access to funding streams is too bureaucratic, prohibitive and creates some difficulties for them. The Member raises a valid point, which I will give more consideration to, as we try to progress this.

Members will want to know when the fund will be up and operational. I have already had numerous correspondences, even to my constituency office, in relation to that. I trust that it will be in September/October of this year.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat. The Minister has touched on the fact that there are potential barriers in the process. How does he intend to ensure that small community organisations — the micro-community groups in rural constituencies like ours — will be able to access the funding and that it will not only be the organisations that are good at filling out the application forms for it?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

That all comes down to the way in which we structure and operate the fund. You can make a fund simple and straightforward or bureaucratic and challenging. I want the former, not the latter. As I said in answer to the original question, we have directed the Big Lottery to develop the strategic plan for the utilisation of the fund in Northern Ireland. That strategic plan will be laid before the Assembly. I trust that that will give some assurance, particularly when we see the detail of how the fund will operate, including the criteria for accessing it. I have made it clear that I want the criteria to be simple and to give us what is desired. The community groups and organisations in a rural setting that the Member referred to — it is not just a rural issue but one right across the piece — should have confidence in the process being fit for purpose and streamlined so that they can access the fund to benefit their community.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

The issue of community groups has been well covered. I am sure that the Minister is well aware of the interest that there is in the fund throughout Northern Ireland. Can he identify how ease of access will increase the ability of such groups to get the funding and to do things for which no other funds would be available?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I answered that in my response to the Member who asked the previous question. It will come down to the criteria that we establish and how the third party running the fund focuses on its delivery. It is frustrating for many organisations, and I know well from working with organisations in my constituency how challenging the funding regime can be. Various organisations have been established to assist with accessing funding. I want the community to have confidence in the fund. Let us remember: this is over £7 million. Northern Ireland has become the beneficiary of it as a result of the legislation passed in the House of Commons. I now want to see progress being made and the fund being opened. I want, at all costs, organisations, particularly those that have felt on the margins of some funding regimes, to be at the centre and become beneficiaries.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

The fund could also be beneficial to Church groups that do not avail themselves of lottery funding. Will there be any priority in the criteria for such faith groups?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. I concur with the concern that he raises. We all know from our constituencies that some faith-based organisations have difficulties — rightly so, from their perspective — with accessing and utilising funds emanating from the lottery. However, I have been keen to ensure that, as an element of the process and a core component of the fund, faith-based and Church organisations and smaller community groups will be able to access it more easily and with more confidence that they will benefit. It is difficult to give them absolute priority in the way in which the fund is established; however, in the guidance, as well as in the way in which the fund is established, the third party delivering the funding will be made aware that emphasis and serious thought needs to be given to such groups because of the financial deficits that many of them have, as a result of not having had, from their perspective, the same opportunity to access funding in the past.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

6. Mr Frew asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel for an update on the issue of PSNI equal pay. (AQO 9815/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. This issue cannot be resolved by the Department of Finance and Personnel acting alone and will require Executive consideration. I have circulated a second version of the Executive paper to my colleagues. It is now for the Executive to consider the issue and to work together to find a clearly defined solution and budget for this matter.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Finance Minister for his answer. Why has the issue taken so long to resolve, and is there any legal liability to the affected staff?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The matter has been put before Executive colleagues, and I hope that we can find a way forward together. The issue has required careful thought to provide justification for making a payment to staff when there is no legal requirement to do so. As Finance Minister, I have a clear responsibility to be careful about expenditure, particularly at a time when budgets are challenged across all Departments.

The Member asked whether there is an equal pay legal liability. It has been proven in court that there is no legal liability to these staff. As the Member will be aware, NIPSA took the legal action on behalf of the PSNI and NIO staff who were seeking to have the terms of the equal pay settlement apply to them. The case was lost in court on all points, so there is no legal obligation on the Northern Ireland Civil Service to make payments to these staff. However, my predecessor, Minister Hamilton, put forward an Executive paper on the issue because he wanted to find a way to recognise the feelings of these staff and, if at all possible, to find out whether a resolution was achievable.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister refers to a "second version". I take it that that is a second version of Minister Hamilton's paper, which dates back almost two years to June 2014. Will this paper, unlike its predecessor, ever get to the Executive, has it already been approved for discussion, and does it include a proposal that would recompense these individuals?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

You would not bring a proposal to the Executive that was not going to try to address the issue. It is now a matter of Executive colleagues making a decision on the issue, and it will have to be determined in that way. As I said to my colleague, the matter has been put before the Executive, and I hope that, together, we can find a resolution to this long-standing problem.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

7. Mr Murphy asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline the total value of EU funding secured through the Special EU Programmes Body since 2007. (AQO 9816/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Since 2007, EU funding totalling £676 million has been secured for the 2007-2013 Peace III and INTERREG Va programmes and the 2014-2020 Peace IV and INTERREG Va programmes, for delivery by the Special EU Programmes Body, which is the managing authority for the EU Peace and INTERREG programmes. Funding under these programmes is secured by the Northern Ireland Executive, the Irish Government and, for INTERREG, the Scottish Government.

European funding is allocated in euros, and this answer assumes an exchange rate of 1·31. That is a fluctuating situation, but I trust that that gives the context to answer the Member's question.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his answer. I am sure that he will agree that that almost £700 million is a remarkable amount of money. It has been spent here and in the border counties on this programme alone and does not include other EU funding that is available to the Executive. The Peace funding has clearly been designed to help a society coming out of conflict and to address our infrastructure deficit in the border areas.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member come to his question, please?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Will the Minister offer suggestions as to how such funding would be achieved in the future if his party's wish to leave the European Union comes to pass in June?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Obviously, that would be from the Treasury, given that we are a net beneficiary as part of the United Kingdom. As the Finance Minister in Northern Ireland, I would not have the finances were it not for the way in which, as part of the United Kingdom, we are a region that receives a substantial amount of funding from Her Majesty's Treasury.

However, the Member wants to draw us into the debate on what will happen post the referendum. I have made it very clear that the debate that leads us up to and during the referendum needs to be on the basis of facts. It has to be on the basis of figures. One figure that those parties suggesting that we stay within the European Union have to deal with is the £20 billion that goes every year to its coffers. The European Union is an organisation that has a bloated bureaucracy; an organisation that cannot secure our borders; and an organisation that cannot resist meddling in our courts' decisions. I think that, for those and many other reasons, let alone the financial reasons, a case is being made to ensure that our money is best spent in Northern Ireland for the benefit of our fisheries, for the benefit of our farmers and for the benefit of our communities.

Ian McCrea (DUP, Mid Ulster)

Given that the Secretary of State has said that Northern Ireland farmers would no doubt benefit from being outside the European Union, I am not so sure that it is necessarily a bad thing. The Member who asked the question talked about European funding, so will the Minister give us some detail of the Peace IV programme and the areas it is targeted at?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Obviously, Peace IV is an important element of the existing arrangements that we have. Let us be very clear about this: we will take whatever money we possibly can to maximise it for the benefit of Northern Ireland. Whatever the outcome of the referendum, we will still ensure that we do the best for Northern Ireland. We have only to look at some of the projects that benefited as a result of previous Peace money: the Skainos Centre in east Belfast; the Peace Bridge in Londonderry; and the shared process and community engagement (SPACE) project, including the people's park, in Portadown. We could go down a list of other projects.

The current round of funding for Peace IV has a total value of £206 million and has match funding. So we have a programme with somewhere in the region of £400 million. Now that we have the call open for the new Peace funding — INTERREG Va has been open for almost a year — I want to see organisations right across the piece making applications that can stand scrutiny and pass the test so that we can build upon the good successful projects and, as I said, maximise the money that has come, albeit that we might like to have more money in the future. That is a debate, I believe, for when we know the outcome of the referendum.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister for his answer. I am not sure about his possibly ill-founded faith in the Tories to deliver enhancements to Northern Ireland. The only precedent we have is welfare reform, and that did not work out particularly well. Has his Department carried out any audit of the potential implications of Brexit, negative or otherwise, specifically for Northern Ireland? I think that faith in the Tories to deliver post Brexit to Northern Ireland is pretty much ill-founded, as I said, and grounded in a situation —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Member has asked his question.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

— where the shires would benefit much more than Northern Ireland.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Whatever the debate will be — I have repeated this, and I will say it again — it has to be based on facts and figures.

I hear Members who are always asking for more information, but all of the information necessary to make a judgement is out there, irrespective of the Government of the day, whether it is Conservative, or the Member's colleagues in the Labour Party, which we know spent money so well that it almost bust the Treasury. I think that the Member would do better to have a conversation with his colleagues in the Labour Party, who got us into a financial mess that the Conservative Party had to try and resolve. However, the issue that still needs to be resolved is for the Treasury, because it will have more money; money that will not go to Brussels but will come to Belfast, Ballymoney and other parts of the United Kingdom. Now that I have started that, I will have to go round every Member's constituency to keep them all happy. It is a matter of urgency and importance, and I share the fears and concerns that people have, but we have to ensure that the debate is based on the facts and figures, not fear.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

That is the end of our period for listed Questions. We now move on to Topical Questions. The Members listed for Questions 1 and 2 have withdrawn their names.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

T3. Mr Hilditch asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel how much the average Northern Ireland household pays in taxes and how that compares with other regions of the United Kingdom. (AQT 3623/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. In a sense, it follows on from what the previous Member was trying to ask — are we better off with our own devolved administration? I think the answer to that is yes. In this House, we talk about how we deliver for our constituents, but when you look at the comparators — and this is for real households in Northern Ireland — the average household bill in Scotland is £1,337; it is £1,465 in England; it is £1,550 in Wales; and it is £840 in Northern Ireland. That is because of decisions taken by this Executive; it is because my party is a party of low taxation, and we believe that that reflects the way that we have endeavoured to protect households from a burdensome rate process.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Further to that, will he give a commitment that the DUP has no plans to remove industrial derating?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes, and it is a pleasure for me to have had the opportunity to fulfil the role of Minister of Finance in this mandate. I will repeat this, so that there is no equivocation on it: we have no intention of removing industrial derating. During 2015-16, a total of 4,443 properties benefited from industrial derating and, as of 31 January 2016, a total of £59,803,965 had been allocated for 2015-16. I think that that, along with the small business rate relief, the empty property relief scheme and the extension of the ATM scheme all indicate that we have been business-focused, business-centred and about ensuring that we deliver for our constituents.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

T4. Mr Newton asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel whether he recognises that the Connswater greenway has been a huge success, which reflects the quality of the investment in it, and whether he will consider the Comber greenway as an investment opportunity that will contribute not only to the economy but to the health of the people of Northern Ireland. (AQT 3624/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member. I am almost tempted to ask him whether he is saying that we should all get on our bikes.

The greenways have been developed in ways that are to the credit of all who have been involved. Recently, I had the opportunity to meet Sustrans about some of those issues, because I value the greenways and believe that they have brought not only huge economic benefits but huge health benefits to those who have used them. I believe that their extension and continuation are things that need to be given serious thought. There has been financial assistance for some of them. I think that that needs to be given further thought so that we can extend them in a way that benefits the communities that use them.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

I thank the Minister for those very encouraging words. I know that work has been done by the Minister for Social Development, but, at the end of this mandate, will the Minister encourage this type of work and project to be part of the legacy that will go into the next mandate?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes. When we look across Northern Ireland, we can see many examples of projects that have made an immense contribution to the lives of our citizens. All too often, we focus upon the negatives, but, when you look at the greenways, you see how communities and families have been able to get out and exercise. Those are clear examples of capital projects delivered in conjunction with community organisations and such organisations as Sustrans. I believe that they should play an important role as we develop the Programme for Government and as the new Departments, such as the Department for Communities and the Department for Infrastructure, come into existence alongside my Department, the Department of Finance.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

T5. Mr Ó hOisín asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel whether he will introduce proposals for rate relief for businesses in town centres where significant public works are taking place. (AQT 3625/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Obviously, the Member will know that we have just concluded a review of the rates process. I think that a very good exchange has been held across the piece. I know of public meetings that were held, and I have seen engagements. At the moment, we are working our way through the responses to those. I am conscious of the difficulties that arise, particularly when schemes come into town centres.

In my previous role as Minister for Social Development, I was keenly aware that traders raised concerns about public realm works. All of this has to be given consideration. Currently, there is no compensation process for businesses when there is a process like that in their area. However, every effort is made to ensure that work between the contractor and the local businesses is done in such a way that minimises disruption until we, ultimately, get to the endgame, which is the enhancement of our town and city centres.

Cathal Ó hOisín (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer. The Minister will be aware that when public works continue over a prolonged period in the likes of Limavady, or elsewhere, many businesses feel that it is unfair that they have to pay full rates during that time, when they have no chance to earn enough profit to do so.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

The Member raises a valid point. My challenge in having overall responsibility for rate collection is ensuring that whatever we do is fair and balanced. Pigeon clubs and all sorts of things have been raised during the debates in the Chamber. Everybody wants to have an exemption; depending on the nature of their business, everybody wants to have some relief. I can well understand that. The difficulty and challenge that face us with exemptions is where you then collect the resources from, because we want to be able to improve our public services, and we want to be able to improve the way in which we spend money on our health service and infrastructure.

It is a point well made. The issue will be given consideration now that we have completed the formal consultation process. I trust that in that work of looking at the responses, that issue and many others will be given serious thought and consideration.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

T6. Mr Lunn asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel the question listed at number 12 in questions for oral answer, which concerned the impact of the removal of the rates exemption for charity shops. (AQT 3626/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Member for his question. Obviously, as he is aware and as I have mentioned, the review of the non-domestic rating system is now complete. We are looking at and going through the consultation responses. The treatment of charity shops was an issue that various business organisations, district councils and many others commented on during the rating consultation. In fact, I have had a couple of meetings about it. I am well aware of the sensitivities on the issue. What I have said is that there will be no change to the current situation in this mandate. It will be for a new Executive to determine the outcome of that issue as well as the issue that was raised by the previous Member who spoke, to which I have referred.

I want to emphasise that it is a sensitive issue. I would be unfaithful to some of the comments that were made in the consultation if I did not say that some local businesses — some in my constituency — raised the issue and asked why those organisations, even though they carry out an immense job and do a very good job for their charities, should be exempt when the local businesses have to pay either, in most cases, full rates or rates under some of the rate relief schemes that have been mentioned. It is on the radar. I have already spoken to a number of them on the issue. I had a meeting with NICVA and representatives from the charity organisations just last week. I am well aware of the issue. It will be dealt with with the sensitivity that I believe it deserves.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his very complete answer. Without wishing to pre-empt the outcome of the review, would he agree that, given the present state of city centre retail areas, charity shops perform a very useful service, even perhaps just by being there, and that the outlook and appearance of city centres would be much reduced if they were not there — if they had to close because they were being rated?

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I think that there is no doubt. When I was Minister for Social Development, I, along with the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Minister, met the then Finance Minister, and collectively we had a discussion. I think that those discussions need to continue because we are facing a challenge on the high street. We have seen some good news about what has been happening with occupancy in our capital city. Some of that is a positive sign. However, I am well aware from my constituency of the challenges that a town such as Ballymoney faces when the owner of a family business decides to retire and may, for a variety of reasons, be unable to find someone to take on their business. The closure of any retail property on the high street is to be regretted.

However, I go back to the point that we need to ask whether, for example, the money for the small business rate relief scheme would not be better spent in a different way. We need to find answers to those questions. Over the time that I am here, I am committed to endeavouring to ensure that, whatever the end result, it is fair and in no way hinders progress in town and city centres but adds to it, encourages more investment and brings vibrancy to town and city centres, which I believe we all want to see.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

T7. Mrs McKevitt asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel, after thanking him and telling him that he has done a great job during his short time in office, whether, following recent revelations about NAMA, he will make a recommendation to the incoming Finance Minister in the Irish Government to establish an independent inquiry into the sale of the Northern Ireland portfolio. (AQT 3627/11-16)

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I think my colleague said if only we knew who the next Finance Minister was going to be.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

We need d'Hondt.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

Yes — we would maybe then be in a better position to know who we are going to have those discussions with.

It is a sensitive issue that needs to be dealt with in a proper way. I have ensured that, as far as we are concerned, everything is done in a way that is proper and right. That is my responsibility as Finance Minister, and I am quite happy to ensure that, whether it is me or any other subsequent Finance Minister, we are there for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to manage the finances of Northern Ireland in the best possible way and to ensure that we maximise the best opportunities for Northern Ireland. What others do and have done is for the process and the system and for everybody to find out how that was either not done correctly or not done in a way that gave confidence to the community and the people of Northern Ireland.

Oral Answers to Questions — Health, Social Services and Public Safety

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I advise Members that questions 3, 6 and 9 have been withdrawn.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

1. Mr Kennedy asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety why he is unable to outline the savings made by the temporary contingency measures announced by each health and social care trust in October 2014. (AQO 9824/11-16)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

In response to the significant financial challenges facing my Department in the 2014-15 financial year, the health and social care trusts prepared a range of contingency proposals to help them meet their statutory obligation to deliver financial break-even in that year. The measures proposed by trusts were wide-ranging and reflected the measures that could achieve financial savings in the latter part of 2014-15. My Department monitored the achievement of the overall break-even position rather than tracking the achievement of each individual contingency plan proposal. It is important to emphasise that overall financial break-even was achieved in 2014-15, and the trusts' contingency proposals played a key role in delivering that outcome.

Danny Kennedy (UUP, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for his reply. He has conceded that the motivating factor behind those decisions was to save costs, with, unfortunately, patients and service users being overlooked and ignored. Those decisions were spun as being temporary, but of course many have become permanent. Can the Minister explain how decisions such as the closure of the minor injuries unit in Armagh correspond with and complement departmental policies such as Choose Well and seek to keep people out of emergency departments?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Member made a very good point at the outset, which I will come back to in the broader context of the best way to make savings or efficiencies. The Member was a member of the Executive in 2014-15, and he will recall the acuity of the situation in respect of public finances at that time because of the issues surrounding welfare reform and not progressing that, and the fines that were starting to impact on what was not my Department then but is my Department now, and what was previously his Department.

In respect of decisions, particularly for the Armagh minor injuries unit, the Member will know that it was a temporary closure. A final decision has not been taken to make that permanent. My understanding from the trust — and these are all decisions that are taken by the trusts, not by the Department, in order to live within their budget in the financial year — was based on many pieces of evidence, but not least the fact that the number of people attending that minor injuries unit in Armagh was only four per hour on average. Some of that resource has been moved to Craigavon to assist the situation there with the emergency department.

In respect of the overall position about whether it is the best way to make efficiencies, I am on the record since becoming Minister as saying that, when you have a situation where you are making efficiencies or savings on the basis of budgetary pressures, it will sometimes — even though the decisions are probably in the best interests of the community that we seek to serve — give the impression of not being strategic or long-term. That is why I have tried to change the conversation around trying to take a long-term view about the need to reform our services, taking decisions that are in the best interests of the people and patients that our health and social care system is there to serve and to give a clear understanding to people as to why a particular decision is being taken and why that will produce a better outcome for them, because, at the end of the day, the patient is the most important part of our system.

Gordon Lyons (DUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his answers. Everyone knows how tight the Health Department's budget is and that savings need to be made. That has also included staff pay. Could the Minister outline what he intends to do about the HSC staff pay award for 2016-17? A lot of people are waiting for good news about that.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Hopefully, I will be able to give those who are waiting some good news now. The Assembly will know that I recently announced that I would ask the independent NHS Pay Review Body for a recommendation about a 2016-17 pay award and indicated that I would honour its conclusions. I have now received the Pay Review Body's response. It suggests that certain economic factors particular to Northern Ireland could point towards the option of a nil award and states that it has seen no evidence that large numbers of staff are leaving Northern Ireland because of pay. However, it recommends a 1% increase for all Agenda for Change staff in Northern Ireland in line with the rest of the United Kingdom, and I am happy to confirm that I am accepting its recommendation for a 1% pay award. That will be challenging in tough budgetary times for my Department, but I am clear that it is an appropriate award for our hard-working staff, who, I am sure, will warmly welcome the decision.

Karen McKevitt (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Can the Minister confirm whether there was cross-trust collaboration on the cuts to ensure that cutting a service in one trust did not put pressure on another trust?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Obviously, trusts operate as distinct entities. The Member characterises them as "cuts". Some of the contingency measures that were asked about in Mr Kennedy's question were for the 2014-15 financial year, and the total value of those contingency measures was around £16 million. Not all the measures that were suggested by trusts were accepted by the board, for example. Within that £16 million, yes, a few perhaps made the headlines and are the ones that people have focused and concentrated on, but I am sure that everybody in the House will agree that a lot of the savings in there are good ideas for where we should seek to save money. For example, they are around vacancy controls, reducing overtime, reducing the use of agency staff, administration, corporate management fees, locum rates and stopping clinical excellence awards. A lot of the measures that have not, perhaps, been the focus of public or political attention are very good and are what trusts or any part of the public sector should do ordinarily to reduce costs and overheads at a time when we face significant budget pressures. At that time, we were facing significant budget pressures because of welfare reform fines, and the Executive losing £200 million was really beginning to bite, particularly in my Department. I am sure that some of those savings will be welcomed on all sides. Others that perhaps have a more obvious impact on service delivery are understandably controversial in nature, and I expect all trusts to take those decisions and make those recommendations on the basis of the fullness of evidence that they have before them.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

2. Ms Sugden asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety for an update on the ongoing review of general practice. (AQO 9825/11-16)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

In October last year, I established a working group to review the provision of GP-led care and to make recommendations aimed at ensuring the future sustainability of GP services. That working group has been led by my Department, and its membership includes a patient representative, GP representatives and members of the Health and Social Care Board, health and social care trusts, the Royal College of Nursing and the Allied Health Professions Federation. The group has met regularly since its establishment and has considered a wide range of issues, including the recruitment and retention of GPs and how best to support the existing GP workforce. The group is finalising its report, and I expect to receive a copy in the next few days. I will, of course, give careful consideration to its findings and recommendations.

I expect the working group's recommendations to build on actions that I have already taken to address the challenges that GPs face. I recently announced an investment of £1·2 million each year to commission an additional 20 GP training places, starting in 2016-17. That is the largest investment in GP training for more than 10 years and will increase the number of GP trainees to 85 per year from August 2016. In December, I announced a five-year investment initiative that will put close to 300 pharmacists in GP practices by 2021, easing pressures on GPs and ensuring that patients continue to receive a high-quality service. In addition, as part of an investment package of up to £5·1 million in 2015-16, new schemes have been introduced aimed at encouraging GPs who have left practice in Northern Ireland to return and supporting the existing GP workforce to remain in practice. Those actions are helping to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland continue to have timely access to sustainable, high-quality, GP-led primary care services.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I appreciate the Minister's response. I recently met doctors from general practice who told me that they were at breaking point because they felt that their resources were so tightly squeezed. One of the biggest pressures is GPs taking on responsibilities that have never been theirs, such as interpreting results from consultants or even filling in DLA forms —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I ask the Member to come to her question, please.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

How does the Minister intend to move forward after the report to support GPs so that their workload is not as significant?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

One issue in particular that the Member raised is not something that the Department or the board will ask GPs to do in the system. It is a matter for them to take on board themselves. Sometimes we forget that they are independent contractors, as opposed to people working directly for health trusts, the board or the Department. I accept that it is a profession that is under pressure. You just have to look at the increase in consultations. In 2008-09, there were 10·2 million consultations in Northern Ireland: that rose to 12·7 million in 2013-14, which was an increase of around a quarter. Clearly, that will put pressure on a GP workforce that is exceptionally good but is ageing, and those pressures are not helping to retain people in the system.

I acknowledge the pressures. That is why a package of measures has been put in place to deal with the pressures that GPs face. I, too, have met individual GPs. I have met the Royal College of General Practitioners and the British Medical Association. On top of the funding package of around £10 million that was put in place in April last year for a GP modernisation fund, some investment in skills and some investment in developing GP federations, we have made the biggest investment in 10 years, as I noted, by increasing GP training places to deal with GPs leaving and not being able to retain them. The working group itself is a response to a call from that sector for short-, medium- and long-term recommendations. The GP pharmacist initiative is something that GPs have called for.

Yes, there is a problem. We accept and acknowledge that, but we are not sitting back doing nothing. We are coming forward with a range of measures, many of which owe their origins to the profession suggesting them and the Department positively responding.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

We understand the pressures that GPs are under, and the Minister has mentioned the pharmacists in GP practices initiative. Can he outline some of the benefits of that initiative?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

It is something that I was pleased to announce towards the tail end of last year. As I mentioned in response to Ms Sugden, it was something that we had been working with GPs on. They suggested the idea, we piloted a scheme, and I was able to see a pilot scheme at the Arches practice at the bottom of the Holywood Road in Belfast.

We have been announcing a five-year investment that will start off quite small. There will be £2·6 million in the next financial year, rising to £14 million by 2020-21. Over five years, that will allow us to ramp up the number of pharmacists working alongside GP practices. Some will be full-time and some part-time. Some will be shared between a couple of practices. In more rural areas, it might be one day in practices over a wider area.

There are benefits in two areas. There will be financial savings. We anticipate that, by 2021, our investment will yield savings of around £16 million, so the scheme will pay for itself. There are also non-monetary benefits, including better prescribing. GPs will be able to do regular checks on what people are being prescribed and whether it is working for them. The initiative will reduce prescribing costs and increase capacity in GP surgeries. GPs will be able to use the pharmacists to remove some of the pressure that they face. Hopefully, it will also reduce the number of acute admissions. Therefore, a range of benefits, monetary and non-monetary, will be derived from this innovative initiative, which I was very pleased to announce last year.

Gerard Diver (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his answers to date. Minister, despite listening with interest to the range of measures that you are putting in place to help general practice, in my constituency in the west, we are aware of falling numbers of trainees coming into general practice, and the scheme is undersubscribed year after year. What effect is that having on the strategic goals for GPs in Transforming Your Care, considering that one GP said to me only today that falling numbers make the Transforming Your Care plans impossible?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

As I hope I have indicated in the answers that I have given so far, I accept that there are pressures and I acknowledge that there is an issue with general practice. That is why we have been rolling out all the various initiatives and investments that we have been making. I accept that there are some parts of the Province where the problem is particularly acute compared with others. I am not saying, for example, that there are not issues in the Belfast or greater Belfast area, but there is certainly an acuteness of the problem in the west of the Province.

I recently visited not quite the Member's constituency but Fermanagh, along with the First Minister, to hear directly from GPs in that county about the difficulties that they are facing. I accept and acknowledge the problem that they are facing, because the problems about which I responded to Ms Sugden are a little more pronounced in that part of Northern Ireland. The fact that we have a GP workforce where around a quarter are over 55 seems to be a much more pronounced problem in the west of the Province. Where you have many GP practices in the west of the Province that are single or have just two GPs, that adds to the pressures that people are facing.

One of the impacts of one of the initiatives, the £1·2 million investment in more GP training places, which is the biggest investment of its kind in over a decade, will see 20 more GPs go into training. Four of those GP training places will go into the Western Trust area to help to alleviate some of those problems. Obviously, that will be cumulative over the next number of years as those numbers start to move through the system. There is an issue with retention, which I am keen to address. Without having seen the response of the working group, I will be very surprised if it does not make a recommendation to do something in respect of trying to retain GPs in certain parts of the Province, particularly in the west and the north-west.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

4. Mrs Overend asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety how much his Department and its arm's-length bodies spent on private taxis for patients and staff in 2014-15. (AQO 9827/11-16)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The total amount spent on taxis by my Department and its arm's-length bodies in 2014-15 was £4,878,261. This covers all taxi use, including taxis for patients, social care clients and staff.

Sandra Overend (UUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for that answer. I am disappointed that it has taken this question during questions for oral answer to get the information from the Minister, as he has repeatedly refused to answer questions for written answer. As waiting times remain terrifying, the Minister's only response is piecemeal funding announcements and pre-election stunts. Does the Minister agree with previous comments from other DUP Members that this spending is totally outrageous?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I am not quite sure what the question was. I am not even sure that the Member actually believes what she said in respect of some of the comments that she made. I do not want to pre-empt the question that is next up from Ms McCorley on waiting times, but I think that the Member should reflect on her slightly churlish comments around pre-election stunts and throwing piecemeal funding at waiting lists.

This is a serious issue, and there are too many people waiting for operations, procedures and tests in Northern Ireland. I am sure that, even if the Member cannot welcome the investment of a further £30 million in tackling waiting lists, many of the 150,000 people who will benefit from the £70 million that will be invested this calendar year will welcome the investment that has been made, which will ensure that they get the treatments, procedures and operations that they require.

The issue of taxi funding sometimes comes to the fore and gets a bit of concentration because it seems so very different from what is core business in a Department like mine. It is worth reflecting that the total expenditure of about £4·8 million last year is 0·1% of the total budget.

Using taxis provides a flexible and reliable service for the system, and it supplements our transportation fleet right across the health and social care system. Perhaps the Member would reflect on some of the uses of taxis. I think that sometimes the impression given is of people swanning about all over the country using these taxis, but they are used only in specific circumstances. There are strict guidelines on when they should be used. The sorts of things they are used for include providing safe transportation for children in care, transporting adult mental health outpatients, taking people to and from day centres, taking people to and from renal dialysis and taking social work staff to ensure that they can escort patients when they are going to hospital.

So, yes, it has the appearance of a large figure, but it is not, in the context of the overall budget, and it is being well used.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Minister's two minutes are up.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for his answers so far. Can he give us an indication of how expenditure over this term on the use of taxis compares with the expenditure during the last Assembly term?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I am very happy to provide an update. I was not able to find the time to provide that to Mrs Overend, who was, I think, critical about the level of expenditure on taxis. I cannot remember what she exactly said, but she was certainly critical. The interesting point that the Member will, I am sure, appreciate is that the figures are falling and have been falling in recent years. They have been falling from a high of £5·2 million in 2009-2010. So, the cost was £400,000 higher in 2009-2010 than in the most recent financial year. The Member will remember, even if Mrs Overend has forgotten, who was Minister of Health in 2009-2010. In case anyone needs reminding, it was Michael McGimpsey of the Ulster Unionist Party. Figures rose during his time in office from £4·5 million to that £5·2 million, but they have been falling to a reasonably steady level ever since.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

5. Ms McCorley asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what measures he will put in place to address waiting lists for consultant-led appointments. (AQO 9828/11-16)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

Improving waiting times continues to be one of my key priorities, and the vast majority of additional resources made available by the Executive through November monitoring are going directly towards tackling waiting times. That is expected to benefit around 70,000 patients who would otherwise be waiting for assessments, diagnostics and treatments.

I am pleased to say that delivery of that additional activity is progressing well. Most people will be seen between January and March this year, so the full extent will not become clear until early 2016-17. However, we are now seeing real reductions in the number of people waiting for assessment or treatment. Robust performance management figures are in place. Provisional figures for February this year show that those waiting more than 18 weeks for an outpatient appointment has fallen by 6%, and those waiting longer than 26 weeks for an inpatient day case has fallen by 13%. It is clear that the investments we are directing towards waiting lists are making a difference. Slowly but surely, we are getting to grips with our waiting lists.

On Sunday, I announced the allocation of £30 million of additional funding to continue tackling waiting lists. That additional funding will support up to 25,000 additional assessments and some 12,000 additional treatments across a wide range of specialities, including orthopaedics, gastroenterology, neurology and ENT. Importantly, it will see a £10 million investment in diagnostic services, building capacity to support up to 50,000 additional tests to help meet increasing demands, as well as supporting seven-day services. That further £30 million follows the Executive's earlier allocation of £40 million, and the combined £70 million will ensure in the region of 150,000 extra assessments, tests and procedures. Also, many children awaiting assessments for autism will benefit from the £2 million I recently allocated for that specific area.

It is clear that it will take some time and significant non-recurrent and recurrent investment to bring waiting lists back to acceptable levels while increasing capacity to meet increasing demand. My commitment to an additional £30 million is an important step to ensuring continued progress.

Rosaleen McCorley (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer. It was a very comprehensive answer, and I thank him for that. The statistics are encouraging and show that things are moving in the right direction, but as we know, there is a recurring, growing problem here.

How confident is the Minister that waiting lists will continue to decrease and that we will seriously get to grips with the problem?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

The Member is right that we can invest, and we are investing. We should note and welcome the additional investment that I announced in the last number of days, on top of the £40 million that is going in this year. Sometimes, I think that people think that this is the only money going towards addressing waiting lists. It is on top of what might be described as the ordinary activity by our trusts, which ensures that around 600,000 inpatient day cases go on a year and around 1·5 million outpatient consultant-led appointments take place. This is additional to that.

The Member is right to identify that, when you remove somebody, somebody else comes in at the other end of a waiting list. Sometimes, people move from one waiting list to another — from an outpatient list to an inpatient one or via, say, a diagnostic list. There is a constant churn of people coming out at one end of the list and those going on to the list at the other end. This is reflected in the fact that there has been a 14% increase in the number of referrals. Never mind any issues with finance — and those are pertinent issues — there has been a 14% increase in the number of people referred by their GPs or others to hospital for outpatient and other appointments.

We have to keep our focus on continued investment in getting to grips with the problem. I accept and acknowledge that waiting lists are too long in Northern Ireland, and it is one of my key priorities to address that problem. That is why we have been investing the money that we have — the £40 million plus the additional £30 million that will help 150,000 people across Northern Ireland get the tests, procedures, operations and diagnostics that they require.

We need to continue that investment and that is why I am very pleased that my party leader the First Minister has indicated that one of her priorities for the next Assembly term will be health expenditure. I agree wholeheartedly with her when she says that we need to reform our system. We all know that we need to reform our system, but we also need to spend a minimum of £1 billion extra on health over the next five years to ensure that we can get to grips with waiting lists and reform our system.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Minister's time is up.

Fearghal McKinney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

The Minister is right: the lists are too long. In fact, they are longest they have been in 15 years. While I welcome funding, individuals have been on waiting lists because the Minister cut the elective care fund to prevent an A&E crisis. Rather than cutting and then throwing money at the crisis that that provokes, will the Minister outline his long-term plan to deal with demand?

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I am sure that the Member will reflect on the factual inaccuracy that I cut investment on waiting lists. The reason why contracts with the independent sector and in-house activity had to be turned down in recent years was as a direct consequence of the fact that the Executive lost £200 million as a result of welfare reform penalties. Those were penalties that his party colleague the Member for West Belfast came into the House —

[Interruption.]

Mr Attwood, the Member for West Belfast came into the House during debates on welfare reform and, when it was put to him that all that money would be lost and that, as a consequence, public services, including health —

[Interruption.]

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

— would suffer, Mr Attwood said that it was a price worth paying — a price worth paying. So, more people on waiting lists as a result were, according to the SDLP, a price worth paying for its position on welfare reform.

I accept that waiting lists are too long. That is why we are trying to address them and why we have put an additional £40 million in this year to be topped up by an additional £30 million next year. That will see 150,000 extra people across Northern Ireland getting the treatments, the procedures, the tests and the appointments they have been waiting for. Whilst I hear a lot of criticism from the Member and his party about waiting lists and various other things, they are very silent when it comes to having an alternative plan about how to take the health service forward. We are trying to reform our system, but we are trying to deal with issues on the front line by investing that additional £70 million. I want to see that investment continuing, and I want the momentum that we have started continuing into the next year.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

8. Mr McKay asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to outline his plans to invest in specialist perinatal mental health services. (AQO 9831/11-16)

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

An integrated perinatal mental healthcare pathway was published by the Public Health Agency in 2012 and is being updated at present. It provides regional guidance for all healthcare professions who come into contact with pregnant women to ensure that any mental health problems are identified earlier and that women are directed to the appropriate mental health services. For example, midwives can decide on the appropriate care for women who disclose previous mental health problems.

The Health and Social Care Board has developed outline proposals for the future development of specialist perinatal mental health services in line with NICE guidance CG192, which was endorsed in Northern Ireland in 2015. These proposals include specialist community-based services and a regional mother-and-baby unit. The estimated cost of developing these specialist services is £1·9 million. My Department's detailed financial planning process for 2016-17 is ongoing and will include consideration of a wide range of developments. The funding requirements for the development of specialist perinatal mental health services will be considered alongside a wide range of competing priorities.

RQIA will carry out a review of perinatal mental health services in 2016-17, and the recommendations from that review will inform the future development of this service.

Daithí McKay (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. I am sure he will be well aware of the many horrific stories relating to this area of health where the mother and child have been separated. That is totally unacceptable, and I agree that we need a regional unit sooner rather than later. I ask the Minister whether he agrees that this needs to be an absolute priority for the Department in the new Assembly term.

Simon Hamilton (DUP, Strangford)

I do. This is an area where our understanding of the extent of the issue is not as clear as it might be in lots of other areas. As the Member will know from his brief time on the Committee, this Department touches upon a huge number of areas. Historically, just as it is with the whole issue of mental health, there is not as much understanding as there might have been around, say, our physical health. This is one particular area of perinatal mental health where our understanding is getting better, but I accept that we have fallen behind others. I welcome and appreciate the work done by people like Lindsey Robinson to highlight this issue and the effect it has on real people in Northern Ireland. So it is something that I am focused on, and there is a review, as I indicated, and I think there is a demand for a small specialist unit in Northern Ireland, which will deal with those problems, so that the issues that the Member raises do not happen again. I think the ongoing development of the new regional mother, baby and children's hospital at the Royal Victoria Hospital presents the perfect opportunity to make that a reality.