Northern Ireland Assembly, 28 September 2020

372 contributions from 66 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before I move to the first item on the Order Paper, I want to make the point that Standing Order 18A(2) requires written copies of statements to be made available at least half an hour before the statement is delivered in the Chamber. The Justice statement arrived in at 11.37 am, so, being a little bit late and given the topicality of the issue and the fact that it is the first item on the agenda, I propose to suspend the House for 10 minutes in order to give Members an extra few minutes to read what is, I think, a 10-page statement.

The sitting was suspended at 12.02 pm and resumed at 12.12 pm.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before we proceed with the first item of business on the Order Paper, I just want to —.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to draw your attention to an issue that arose in the Chamber last Tuesday. Mr Allister made assertions about me that were completely unfounded and untrue. When he realised that I had not attended the Thomas Clarkes game, he made further assertions, which were equally unfounded and untrue, that I had attended a public gathering. I ask that those assertions be withdrawn and apologised for unequivocally in the same manner in which they were made, and I would like the Speaker to rule on that issue.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Thank you for that point of order, Mr Gildernew. I will consider that later today and I will come back to you and/or Mr Allister, if needs be.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I understood that I had apologised to Mr Gildernew about the false allegation. I believe that the record will show that I withdrew it and apologised.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have just said that I will consider the matter and return to it later.

The First Minister will take oral questions today on behalf of the Executive Office as the deputy First Minister is unwell and unavailable to attend. I extend our greetings and best wishes to the deputy first Minister.

Ministerial Statements

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have received notice from the Minister of Justice that she wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that in the light of social distancing being observed by parties, the Speaker's ruling that Members must be in the Chamber to hear a statement if they wish to ask a question has been relaxed. Members still have to make sure that their name is on the speaking list if they wish to be called, but they can do that by rising in their place as well as notifying the Business Office or the Speaker's Table directly. In addition, I remind Members to be concise in asking their questions. This is not an opportunity for a full debate and long introductions will not be accepted.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I apologise to you and to Members that the statement was late in being issued to you this morning. There was no discourtesy intended but there was a drafting issue at our end, for which I also apologise.

Members will be aware that, on 22 September, the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) announced that the convictions of 15 individuals for certain sexual offences prosecuted between 2009 and 2017 are to be set aside as a result of a historical legislative error that caused them to be invalid. Before I set out how this occurred, first and foremost, on behalf of my Department and the criminal justice system, I want to express my deep regret that it has happened and to apologise to the victims who are at the heart of it all.

Since taking up my post as Justice Minister, I have endeavoured to improve the experience of victims and witnesses in the criminal justice system. That motivation is at the core of the changes that I am driving in the Department. I am acutely aware that, because of this error, some victims are receiving news that is bringing them to revisit past issues that are painful and personal. That is a matter of profound regret. I know that they are being assisted throughout this difficult time by Victim Support and by Nexus. I am grateful to both those organisations for working closely with the Public Prosecution Service in supporting them.

The individuals whose convictions are being set aside were tried and convicted in the Magistrates' Courts. However, a technical change in the law, made in error and prior to the devolution of justice, meant that a small number of sexual offences could only be prosecuted in the higher Crown Court. The removal of certain sexual offences from a schedule to the Magistrates' Courts (Northern Ireland) Order 1981, by the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008, and earlier legislation in 2003 meant that the Magistrates' Courts lost the legal power to try those cases. Since 2009, 15 prosecutions, resulting in convictions covering affected sex offences committed between 1973 and 2009, were sent to the Magistrates' Courts in error. All were convicted without the necessary authority. As a result, the Public Prosecution Service will shortly be making an application to the courts to have those convictions rescinded. In effect, it will be as though the conviction never happened.

There are 17 victims of those offences: 14 are victims of indecent assault on a female, contrary to section 52 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861; one is a victim of indecent assault on a male, contrary to section 62 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861; and two are victims of the offence of unlawful carnal knowledge, contrary to section 5(1) of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885. Each and every one of those victims had the right to expect better from our criminal justice system. Those convicted received sentences that stretched from fines and community service orders to suspended sentences and probation orders, with one receiving a custodial sentence. I should stress at this point that there is no question of any of the cases resulting in a miscarriage of justice.

Article 45 of the Magistrates' Courts (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 permits the summary trial of a small number of indictable offences, with the consent of the accused. In other words, selected offences can be sent to the lower Magistrates' Courts, which have lesser sentencing powers and do not involve juries. The offences that can be dealt with in that way are listed in schedule 2 to the 1981 Order.

Members will be aware that these issues relate to legislative changes that predate the devolution of justice matters. Consequently, it is not possible to be certain of all the circumstances. As I understand it, in 2007, Northern Ireland Office (NIO) Ministers wished to consolidate sexual offences law into one statute and align offences and penalties with those in England and Wales. That resulted in the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008, which was prepared over a seven-month period between October 2007 and April 2008.

During the preparation of the Order, a number of sexual offences were replaced and, consequently, the pre-existing offence was repealed. One such offence was the section 52 offence of indecent assault on a female. The repealed offences were removed from the list of offences contained in schedule 2 to the Magistrates' Courts (Northern Ireland) Order 1981, as a consequential amendment in the 2008 Order. That meant that offences committed prior to 2 February 2009 could no longer be tried in a Magistrates' Court.

Normally, draft legislation includes supplementary, consequential, transitional and saving provisions. All but a saving provision was included in the 2008 Order. The removal of section 52 from the 1981 Order, without provision for summary prosecution for historical offences, appears to have been an unintended drafting error. There is no recorded discussion or correspondence specifically on the subject of removal of those old or repealed offences from schedule 2 to the Magistrates' Courts Order. There is a very limited record, which indicates that forewarning was given to the police and the PPS of the policy intent to repeal all existing sexual offences, apart from the trafficking offences, which were to remain in the Sexual Offences Act 2003. A record exists of an enquiry made in December 2007, at the request of a legislative draftsperson, specifically asking whether either organisation perceived or identified a reason not to proceed in that way. In the limited records available, nothing was received that indicated or highlighted the need for a saving provision to retain summary prosecution as an option for offending conduct covered by the repealed offences but which occurred before the proposed order came into force.

All new legislation goes through a process whereby Ministers set the policy direction, policy officials draft instructions to counsel, which are then checked by legal advisers, and the legislative counsel then prepares the actual legislation. The legislature that scrutinised the legislation, prior to it becoming law, was the Westminster Parliament. In this case, it is clear that the consequences of the changes made to the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 were not identified by any of these people or organisations. The draft Order was made in Parliament on 9 July 2008 and the relevant parts of the Order were commenced on 2 February 2009. After the legislation was passed, the PPS, relevant judiciary and legal representatives all proceeded in the belief that the Magistrates' Court option was available for suitable cases — normally those of a less serious or grave nature, and where the more limited sentencing powers of the Magistrates' Court were deemed to be appropriate. The issue was raised in 2012, when it was concluded that a saving could be implied. However, that approach was reviewed in 2018 and, following further legal advice, it was determined that that was not the case.

The PPS contacted DOJ officials in early 2019 to say that they had identified that there was a potential problem with the removal of section 52. At this point, it was unclear whether there was a significant problem or not, and the PPS sought the advice of counsel. The focus for the PPS at that time was on whether future proceedings for offences contrary to section 52 could be brought in the Magistrates’ Court. Following receipt of this advice, it was concluded that the Magistrates' Court did not have the legal power to try historic indecent assault offences that were committed prior to 5 February 2009, the date of the commencement of the 2008 Order, and that all future prosecutions for indecent assault could only proceed in the Crown Court. The PPS subsequently sought further advice from counsel on the validity of the convictions obtained in the Magistrates’ Court after section 52 had been removed from schedule 2. Having received and considered that subsequent advice, the PPS concluded that the convictions could not stand and steps had to be taken to set them aside.

The PPS also carried out an exercise to identify all of those cases where it had prosecuted section 52 offences since 2009. An initial search of its database produced a large number of cases that were potentially affected. These had to be reviewed manually to confirm the correct position in respect of each of them. My Department was informed by the PPS at the end of February 2020 that the further work done had clarified that there was a definite problem and identified the cases affected by the removal of section 52. They also noted the need to explore whether any of the other offences removed from the schedule had had prosecutions undertaken since 2009. The PPS also explained that it had instructed staff not to issue any new prosecutions summarily for the affected offence.

Senior management in the Department were alerted to the issue in early March 2020 and engaged with the PPS about the steps that needed to be taken as a result. At that point, the plan was to take all necessary steps by the end of June 2020, but the lockdown for COVID-19 led to some delays. The Department’s legal advisers carefully considered whether any other offences were similarly affected and further offences were, indeed, identified. This, in turn, led to a further scoping exercise by the PPS to establish whether summary prosecutions had occurred, This identified one conviction under section 62 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and two convictions under section 5(1) of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885. The PPS also carried out an initial evidential review of the cases identified as it was recognised that fresh prosecutions could still be brought by the Crown Court. Any fresh prosecution will be made in line with the PPS test for prosecution, which involves an assessment of the prospect of a conviction and the public interest in bringing the offence and offender before a court. An important aspect of that will be the views of the victims themselves on what should happen next.

The initial review was commenced by a senior prosecutor in the PPS and will be competed when all relevant information, including the views of the victims, is available. It would be inappropriate for the PPS to conclude the review of the cases without having taken the views of the victims or before the existing convictions have been set aside.

In advance of contacting the victims, PPS asked for the PSNI’s assistance in establishing the current addresses for victims and defendants, so that the victims could be contacted to confirm their up-to-date details and to take their views as to how they wished to be contacted, including whether by letter, in person or by email. PPS recognised the sensitivities involved in this initial contact, particularly with victims. Clearly, it is critical in a situation like this to have the full picture of all the potential difficulties. Both my Department and PPS were concerned that the removal of repealed offences from schedule 2 of the 1981 Order, without a saving provision, may have occurred for other offences and, consequently, the Department commissioned a legal audit to identify other, similar problems. The audit identified a further 11 offences that had been repealed and removed from the schedule, including a further two offences that were removed as a consequence of repeals in the 2008 Order. Some offences were removed as a consequence of repeals dating back a number of years. Only one other offence was removed from the relevant schedule of the Magistrates’ Court order, without policy intent, and that occurred in 2003. The list of offences identified was forwarded to PPS at the end of April 2020.

In May, a search of the PPS database was conducted for prosecutions under the additional repealed offences. At the end of May, PPS informed the Department that it had completed the analysis of the number of cases that had been inappropriately prosecuted in the Magistrates’ Court and would further review the case files to confirm where action was required. Two additional section 5(1) offences were identified and are included in the total of 15 affected cases.

I was first alerted to the issue on 16 June. I was advised of the current position: PPS had confirmed that there was a problem regarding the prosecution of a number of historical cases and it was reviewing case files and considering options on the best way forward. In August, my officials met with PPS who advised that, while the review of case files was continuing, they were developing plans to inform victims. PPS indicated its intention to engage with Victim Support NI and Nexus NI to gain their advice on how best to engage with victims and to ensure that those affected could be given effective support and counselling throughout the process. Their overriding aim was to minimise any distress or re-traumatisation of victims. PPS also indicated that it would seek the views of victims before undertaking the public interest test. No decisions on re-prosecution of the defendants would therefore be taken until sometime after it had informed victims and given them time to digest what has happened.

Following an update on the meeting, I spoke to the Director of Public Prosecutions on 20 September. Like PPS, my main priority was, and is, to ensure that victims should be protected. I am grateful to Victim Support and Nexus for supporting this work. They have been most helpful in assisting with the communications that issued to victims, and stand ready to support any victims who need advice, support and counselling through these difficult times.

Shortly after my conversation, PPS confirmed that its final review of cases had confirmed that there were 15 cases, involving 17 victims. Once confident that all relevant convictions had been identified, PPS began the process of notifying victims and defendants last week. The senior prosecutor responsible for reviewing the cases personally telephoned the victims to advise them that the convictions of those who had committed the offences against them were no longer valid, and that a letter would be delivered by courier the next day, setting out the circumstances in greater detail. Whilst he was not able to reach all the victims to speak to each one of them, letters were delivered to 15 out of 17 victims the next day. Efforts to contact the remaining two victims are continuing. He advised those victims he spoke to that he was happy to meet them and discuss the situation, and its implications, once they had time to consider the letter in detail. Some of these meetings are already arranged, and it is expected that more will follow. Victims were also advised that Victim Support and Nexus were available to help, and named contacts were provided.

I appreciate what a shock it must have been for the victims of these offences to receive this news and I sincerely regret that they have had to go through this process. I realise that there has been some criticism of the delay in addressing the error once it had been recognised.

Once the error had been identified as a potentially serious problem, there was a series of steps to be taken to assess the situation. I have set those out in the statement. It was critical that, at the point of announcement, the full extent of the problem was established and that the PPS had identified precisely which cases, and which victims, were affected. A premature statement could have created unnecessary concern and distress for a wider group of victims who, ultimately, would not have been affected.

As I said, my first concern is the victims who have been affected by this error. I am assured that mechanisms that the PPS has put in place will support them, and I have asked one of my senior officials to keep a watching brief on developments and to keep me fully informed. The Department has also instructed the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) to prepare a clause in the forthcoming justice (miscellaneous provisions Bill to reinstate the relevant sexual offences to schedule 2 to the 1981 Order where the offending conduct occurred before 2 February 2009.

This error is most unusual. I have therefore asked one of the Department's senior lawyers to prepare an analysis of the factors that might have contributed to it and to develop a quality-assurance check mechanism that can be built into our policy and Bill development processes to cover all future legislation. I will provide that analysis to the Justice Committee when it has been concluded.

I understand that the PPS is also reviewing its practices and procedures in relation to the introduction of the 2008 Order and what followed and that it will bring a briefing on it in due course.

The cases that I have referred to today are, to the very best of our knowledge, and after considerable research, all those affected by the error relating to pre-2009 cases left off schedule 2 without the saving clause.

I started this statement by emphasising that my primary concern was for the well-being and protection of victims affected by this error. I trust that the efforts of the PPS and of my Department to support and assist victims in these difficult circumstances have assured Members that we are taking victims' welfare very seriously. It was right that we worked through this matter carefully to ensure that we established the full facts and that the PPS was able to engage with victims when it could provide them with detailed information and answers to their concerns.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

My concerns are, obviously, first and foremost with the victims, who will, undoubtedly, have been re-traumatised as a result of this failure. I want to put on record my appreciation for the Minister coming to the House today. I also acknowledge her apology. The Minister was not responsible for this error, but she is responsible for how it is addressed.

I am disappointed that it was the Public Prosecution Service, rather than the Minister, that was first out on the issue last week. I believe that, as she is head of the criminal justice system, her Department should have fronted on this, particularly in light of the PPS's statement that indicated a failure on the part of departmental officials.

That said, the statement raises even more questions. The issue was raised first in 2012 and then again in 2018. Although it was confirmed as a definite problem in February 2020, senior management was told about it only in March of this year, and the Minister in June. I am shocked that it was June of this year before the issue was elevated to the Minister's desk. Therefore, the announcement that a departmental lawyer is to carry out an analysis of the factors and to quality assure it does not cut it. At a minimum, we have to have an independent investigation and accountability clearly taking place.

The Criminal Justice Inspection (CJI) should be called in by the Minister to investigate her Department on the issue, because public confidence has been undermined and needs to be restored. Therefore I ask the Minister to reflect on that request.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Mr Speaker, there are a number of issues that we need to unpick. First, as people will be aware, it is not as simple as me taking control of these issues. The Public Prosecution Service is entirely independent of the Department of Justice; we have absolutely no locus or vires to speak on its behalf on any matter. Therefore, it was entirely appropriate that it should have been the organisation to raise the issue, because the error was a prosecutorial one, and whether or not that prosecutorial error could be traced back to an omission in the legislation is a separate, and different, point.

The error was about prosecutorial decisions, and the decisions that will be taken henceforth will also be taken by the PPS and not by my Department. I also gently remind the Member that not only did it not just happen on my watch, but it did not happen during the devolution of policing and justice. It is not as simple as saying that my Department will have lost the confidence of the general public; that is an unfair representation of the facts.

The Northern Ireland Office made these changes to the law. As with any Order in Council, it will have been scrutinised at Westminster and many other parties in the Chamber will have had MPs at that time who will have had an opportunity to take part in that scrutinising process. Indeed, this legislation will have been formulated at the Privy Council, and some parties may well have had members in the Privy Council at that time who failed to pick up on this process. I think it is a bit much to say that confidence will be lost in the Department of Justice.

We take this entirely seriously and appropriately, and we have handled it in the proper way. However, for us to speak before we knew all the facts would have placed more victims in danger of being distressed than was absolutely necessary and that, for me, had to be the primary concern in all of this.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Like the Members before me, I thank the Minister for coming to the House with this ministerial statement. I had tabled a question for urgent oral answer, but I am grateful that a ministerial statement has been made. Obviously, we got the statement a bit late and that makes it difficult for us to ask questions. However, I want to place on record that our deepest thoughts are with the victims. This will have had a devastating impact, not only on the victims but on their families. When something like this happens, it does not just impact on one person: it impacts everyone around them. Our thoughts are with them, and I am glad that they are getting support. I hope that the support will continue and that they will get all and any support that they need during this process.

Can the Minister outline how she will ensure that justice is upheld in those cases where it has been decided not to pursue fresh prosecutions? How can we minimise the impact on the victims of those cases where there are new prosecutions?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

As I made clear in the statement, it is unfortunate that the convictions in question are to be set aside. However, the veracity of those convictions is not in question. Obviously, this creates a significant issue for the victims of those crimes. We are currently trying to support victims with the trauma around this decision. Victims' views will be taken into account by the PPS when it comes to the point of deciding whether the offences should be reprosecuted.

In many of the cases, people will already have served their complete sentence for the offences, and that will also have to be taken into consideration when a decision is made about whether to reprosecute. There are a number of complex decisions that need to be taken, but those decisions will be solely for the Public Prosecution Service. They are not decisions that I can be involved in because that would bring a political element to the prosecution, and that would be entirely unacceptable.

We have discussed with the Public Prosecution Service some of the issues that flow from this about other elements of public protection. We have worked through those other elements to provide reassurance that public protection is not being compromised in these cases. Nevertheless, it is correct to say that, if victims decide that they wish to go forward with a reprosecution, and if that is the final decision of the PPS, they will need Victim Support and the other agencies to support them through that period.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for coming here today and making the statement. I also want to put on record my thanks to Victim Support and Nexus for stepping up.

I note the timeline, and I notice that the change happened in 2009. The issue was first raised in 2012. It is not clear how the issue was raised in 2012 or by whom. Was that at a departmental level? It was further raised in 2018 and, alarmingly, it took until 2020 before it arrived on the Minister's desk. If the Minister does not intend to include CGI in an investigation, what level of investigation does she intend to seek at this time?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

There are a number of issues that we need to address. First and foremost, an error was found in 2018 when a court official undertaking routine work with ICOS, the court record system, came across an anomaly. So that is when it was established in 2018.

A record was labelled as hybrid — that it could be tried either summarily or on indictment — whereas it should have been triable only on indictment according to the ICOS schedule. The Courts and Tribunals Service raised that with the PPS, and the error was then identified, albeit that it was not immediately clear whether it was a significant issue. The honest answer is that I do not know how it was found in 2012, but, at that time, the PPS was advised that it was not a significant issue that would cause any concern, which was why it was then in abeyance until it was rediscovered in 2018.

In terms of the length of time that it took to come to me, I have set out in detail the amount of work that had to be undertaken and also the responsibilities for that work. The issue is that it was not brought to my attention until the views of the Department were integral to being able to move that forward. We then worked quickly to identify whether there were any other potential issues around that particular section or other parts of that Act to ensure that we were not going to go public with something that would have a drip effect, with more cases coming forward over a period of time. I understand that it is very difficult, and I am giving as full and frank an account as I can.

You asked about an inquiry into the issue and how that will be handled. We have conducted a full inquiry. My focus is now on ensuring that we will be able to prevent a recurrence. The problem is, of course, that I am giving as full and frank an account as I can of what happened in 2007, 2008 and 2009. Many of the individuals involved in those original decisions are no longer available. The Northern Ireland Office no longer has responsibility for justice; we now have a new Department. Many of the individuals who would have been there originally doing the scrutiny are no longer in politics. It is quite difficult to establish with any more certainty than we already have. I do not believe that further inquiry into the matter would necessarily yield additional information. We are very clear about what happened, but not why. We are acting to ensure that that cannot happen again and that we minimise the risk of any repetition. Those are the two most important things that we can do at this state of remove from the original events.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for giving us the statement. This is as bad as it gets. Without a doubt, our thoughts have to be with the victims who will have been re-traumatised by the serious error. The statement is littered with mention of victims being first, but the reality is that the PPS knew about it in early 2019, your Department knew about it in February 2020, you were told in June 2020 and yet victims were not told until September, only days before the media were told. They were not even given the opportunity to come to terms with what happened. Those delays are due to a slow, labouring justice system that is not fit for purpose. Is the reality not that the PPS and DOJ ensured that they had minimised reputational damage before releasing it and putting victims first?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I really fail to understand the tone of the question that has just been asked. I have explained in detail why it took so long to reach the public domain. It was clear, once we spoke to some victims, that there would be a risk of it going straight to the press. Therefore, it was important that we spoke to all victims simultaneously so that no victim would find out via the press what they should be told individually and privately, with time to digest it. The reason that it was not spoken of publicly had nothing to do with reputational damage to my Department.

Let us be clear: my Department was not involved in the incident. The suggestion that we would put reputational damage to the Department ahead of victims is a scurrilous thing to say in terms of my approach. It took time because it was a novel error. It was not clear whether that error would affect the vires of the Magistrates' Court in those cases. It had to seek senior Crown counsel in the PPS to ensure that it would. A complex process was then required to identify cases where there may be an unsafe conviction and to make sure that no other similar errors had occurred.

Any suggestion that there was undue delay is genuinely unfair on the PPS and, I have to say, on my officials and my Department.

For any Member of the Assembly to say that the justice system is simply no longer fit for purpose on the basis of 17 convictions, however serious, having to be set aside out of the thousands of convictions is really an unhelpful public message to give. It is a very limited and very clear error that happened. We are accountable and are being held to account for it, and that is right. We are also informing the public of it, which shows that the justice system is fit for purpose, because there can be no better test of the justice system than for it to admit its mistakes when it gets it wrong.

John Blair (Alliance, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for the statement, which deals ably with the seriousness of the problems but addresses the fact that they originated in a time prior to the devolution of justice powers.

I ask the Minister what actions the Department of Justice might be able to take now. What considerations are being given to whether offenders can seek compensation for being convicted in the wrong court? If they can, would that be fair?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

It is my intention that, if any of those who were convicted by the Magistrates' Court — correctly but in the wrong court — were to seek in any way to be compensated for loss, we would resist that compensation claim. We do not believe that these are cases in which the offences were not committed or that there was a miscarriage of justice where people who were found guilty who were not guilty; we believe that people were simply found guilty in the wrong court. We will therefore resist robustly any attempt by those who were involved in the incident to seek compensation in future.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

Our hearts go out today to the victims of these crimes, and they are in our thoughts and prayers. The failures of the NIO, past and present, are of no surprise to any of us in the House. We are here to discuss the here and now, however, Minister, and it is clear from your statement that you were first alerted to the issue on 16 June. Even though departmental officials knew as early as 2019 and even though the PPS contacted DOJ officials again in March 2020, you, as Minister, were informed three months later. Is that because it was convenient for the Justice Minister not to know this? If so, what does that say about the transparency and accountability of this place to Northern Ireland? Then, having been fully informed, the Justice Minister takes a further three months to address the issue in the House. What does her failure to provide the House with the transparency and accountability that is so badly needed and that so badly needs reform say?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

With respect to the second part of the question, I make no apology for not bringing this to the House before today. I respect the House, and I respect its Members, but my first priority was the victims, so, with all due respect to the Member, I believe that they had to right to know before he had the right to know. It was on that basis that I made the statement today.

On how long it took for it to be brought to my attention, I ask Members to remember that, in 2019, it was identified that there may be an issue. If you read the statement carefully, you will see that I was notified when there was an issue and we were clear that there was an issue. The investigatory work was undertaken, but I was notified at the point at which we knew that there was an actual problem. Remember that, previously, the advice that had been given was that it was not a problem. Further senior counsel advice was sought. When I was made aware of the problem, the reason that it took me three months to come here is all set out in the statement. It was important that we knew exactly how many victims were affected; that we knew that we had checked for similar errors; and that we were able to say with confidence that we had been able to contact all the victims affected. That is the correct way for us to handle such issues.

The Assembly has a crucial role with regard to scrutiny and accountability, but the justice system is ultimately accountable to those who pass through the courts. First and foremost, it is accountable to the victims and to the perpetrators and to ensuring that we deliver justice. That had to be the first priority. As soon as those were indicated and dealt with, I was in a position to come to the House to make the statement and to answer questions. To have done so pre-emptively would have meant that victims would potentially have been in anguish, not knowing whether their case was affected, or, alternatively, hearing in the House, through broadcast media, that their case had been affected. I am sure that the Member, on reflection, will agree with me that that would have been an absolute travesty.

Emma Rogan (Sinn Féin, South Down)

When does the Minister intend to have discussions with victims to assess whether they want to go through the stress of fresh prosecution proceedings?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Because of the nature of the offences, I am not aware of the victims' names or details, and it would not be appropriate for me to be. The Public Prosecution Service, along with Nexus and Victim Support, will have discussions with individual victims about their cases. The Public Prosecution Service will weigh the views of victims against all of the other prosecutorial tests that they need to make before they decide whether the prosecutions will be taken forward again. However, it will be with the consent of victims that they will discuss their views and give the appropriate weight to that as they move forward. To be clear, I will not be part of those discussions, nor would it be appropriate for me to be.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

I, too, thank the Minister for coming here to make the statement. Can the Minister give an assurance that proper processes and procedures will be put in place to stop the recurrence of this critical breakdown in the legal system? A proper quality management system would have stopped this failure and reduced the risk of such a major incident.

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I absolutely believe that it is vital that we have a system in place that checks for such things. I do not think that there one person in the House who would demur from the truth of the fact that there is less opportunity for scrutiny and less clause-by-clause consideration of Bills during the periods when we have no devolution. To put it in context, most Orders in Council are dealt with as secondary legislation at Westminster. At most, they will get an hour and a half on the Floor of the Chamber, and it will simply be a yes or no to the Order in Council. It will not go through a Committee Stage or the scrutiny that we would give that Order, but that will become primary legislation in Northern Ireland. There is an issue, and it is one of the reasons why I am so reluctant, even where it may speed things up, to ask Westminster to legislate on our behalf. By bringing the legislation here, to the Assembly and through the Committees we ensure that there is clause-by-clause consideration. That is not to say that it is impossible that such an error could happen again, because, of course, human error can happen. The PPS are doing work to review their procedures and practices, and the Department are doing work with regard to seeing that we have a continuing clause for historic offences where we are rescinding or replacing legislation. All of that work is being undertaken. I am at a loss to recall any similar error getting through the system since the devolution of justice, but I am absolutely determined that lessons will be learned.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I, too, thank the Minister for coming here. Is it true that one convicted sex offender has been removed from the sex offenders register as a result of the error? If so, can she indicate what steps are being taken to mitigate any potential risk to the public?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The risk to the public was clearly the first question that was on my mind when we discussed the number of victims and what would happen, and it is important that we look at that carefully. As you are aware, with regard to the cases in question, there remain two individuals on the sex offenders register. The rest, to the best of my knowledge, have been removed because of their time on that register. I think that there was only other person, and it was to do with their time, but I will confirm that with officials.

There are safeguards, so I want to run through them. These will be removed from the Police National Computer database and therefore would not longer be automatically disclosed on an Access NI check. Two further safeguards are available in those circumstances. First, if the individual had been barred from working with vulnerable groups as a result of that conviction, the bar would stand and would be disclosed by Access NI checks. Secondly, the police intelligence database searched by Access NI would highlight information that was available about those individuals. Access NI would then refer the application to the police, who have the statutory authority to release information for inclusion in the certificate, even where a conviction has been set aside. The chief police officer must reasonably believe that information to be relevant to be included in the certificate. Therefore, checks and balances are in place to ensure that, as a result of this, the public will be protected.

The PPS has also carefully reviewed all of the cases, which are historical and date back to offences between 1973 and 2010. The question of risk is also one of the factors that the PPS will have to consider when making decisions about further prosecutions. Two of the offenders are still on the sex offenders register and will go off it when the prosecutions are rescinded, which will be around a year or so before they otherwise would have done.

Alan Chambers (UUP, North Down)

I concur with the Minister's remarks in her statement about her first concern being for the victims. Have the Minister's departmental officials been able to establish an estimated cost to the public purse of potential compensation claims from the offenders, who will, perhaps, exploit unlawful detention claims, and the cost of a package of retrials? I appreciate that, in answer to Mr Blair, the Minister gave a welcome assurance that the Department would robustly resist any such claims, but the fact is that claims from offenders will probably end up being financed and funded by the public purse, and it appears, on the surface, that they would have a strong case. I hope that they are resisted. Do any of the cases fall outside the statute of limitation for retrial?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I will start with the final question. It is not my understanding that that would be the case, but we can confirm that in writing to the Member, if that would be helpful.

The 17 offences, which, on conviction, resulted in penalties ranging from a £250 fine to one custodial sentence, will be rescinded in due course. As a consequence, any of the offenders could seek the return of fines or any compensation ordered to be paid to victims, and they may use the courts to seek compensation for their conviction. As I said in response to John Blair, my Department will robustly resist any such compensation claims and indemnify victims returning any compensation awarded.

I am conscious that the error that led to the convictions being rescinded was technical and did not affect the conduct of the cases. I understand that more than half of those convicted pleaded guilty. With the cases rescinded, the convictions will be struck down and the offence removed from the offender's criminal record. It is a matter for the PPS to apply the prosecutorial test, as would always be the case, to determine whether there should be further prosecutions. The consideration of cost will not form part of that determination.

Mervyn Storey (DUP, North Antrim)

I thank the Minister for coming to the House, although it is regrettable that there was no indication on Friday that she was coming to the House about the matter. Perhaps it is as a result of questions for urgent answer being submitted that she has come. However, will the Minister confirm if her officials or PPS officials have been in discussion with the PSNI to establish whether there are any risks for offences currently being investigated or being prepared for submission to the PPS?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

My understanding is that there are no such cases, because the issue with these offences was around historical offences that predated this, and I intend to add the historical element back in through the Miscellaneous Provisions Bill. Therefore, were any historical convictions to come forward now, they would know to prosecute them in the Crown Court, so there would not be the same issue.

Philip McGuigan (Sinn Féin, North Antrim)

As others have done, I thank the Minister for coming to the Chamber. I note her determination that lessons will be learned.

I also note from her statement that she has asked a senior lawyer in her Department to prepare, for future legislation, an analysis of the factors that may have contributed to this. Are there any remaining legislative problems as a result of the changes that led to these convictions being rescinded? If there are, how will those problems be resolved?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

As part of the work that it is doing at the moment, the PPS is looking at its policy and practice around the implementation of this piece of legislation, and also other pieces of legislation, to ensure that there are no other errors that have been missed in this way. Because these are prosecutorial decisions, the Department will not have sight of that, though we will be aware where pieces of legislation have been rescinded. That is one of the reasons why I have asked someone in the Department to look at providing a mechanism that will prevent similar changes from being made without the appropriate alerts being sent to those who are actually responsible for the prosecutions.

As of today, we are confident — as much as anyone can be — that we have identified all of the cases affected by this particular issue. Obviously, as I say, there will be a review in the PPS and a review in the Department to ensure that there is no repeat, but also, on the very slim chance that there may be other, similar cases, we will look at that, but it will not be in relation to this particular issue.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Minister, how will the rescinding of these convictions affect the Access NI records relating to the offenders, and will possible future employers be told?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

In respect of Access NI checks, this is obviously going to have an impact in the sense that the convictions will no longer be on record. However, as I explained, there will be the opportunity for the —. They will not be on the police national computer database, so they will not be automatically disclosed. However, if the individual was barred from working with vulnerable groups, that barring will still stand. Secondly, the police intelligence database search will flag it up if there is any information about an individual, in addition to a conviction, that needs to be considered, and that will allow the Chief Constable in question to make that information available to Access NI if someone is applying for a job with those checks.

We believe that there are protections there. Obviously, we would prefer that those convictions did not have to be set aside, but unfortunately in this case we believe that they will have to be set aside, and therefore my concern is that we do not create any risk to public safety as a result of that choice.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

The Justice Department seems to be problematic. It cannot even deliver a written statement here on time, and we are having to disrupt our sitting. I welcome your decision to allow more time for us to read the statement before asking questions.

This debacle has resulted in 17 victims being re-traumatised. Our actions should be focused on the victims, and also on protecting the public. The Minister has indicated that she is bringing forward a new justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill. Will she be bringing it forth so that it can act retrospectively and not only correct this action for future cases, but also apply retrospectively to put this right, to avoid re-traumatising victims, to protect the public and to avoid considerable cost to the public purse in running additional court cases once more?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the Member for his question and can reassure him that the Justice Department does not have particular problems. This problem does not stem from the Department of Justice. I hope that the Member will be reassured by that.

I can confirm that my Department did look into, and seek legal advice on, a retrospective fix to this particular issue. While there is a presumption against retrospective legislation, it can be achieved by deliberate legislative action through primary legislation. However, such a course would have to be assessed for its fairness, and any such legislative change would not be deliverable before 2022. It would have been unconscionable to sit on the issue for a further 18 to 24 months, and the PPS had a responsibility to advise defendants and victims of the situation and move quickly to resolve it. Consequently, a retrospective amendment would not have helped. However, it is our intention to reinstate these matters back into the system, as it was never intended that these offences would not be able to be tried in the Magistrates' Court. In the interim, offences will still be able to be tried in the Crown Court.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her comments so far. I was struck by those that she has just made about Access NI. She said, I think, that she believes that it would provide a degree of protection. However, there are no safeguards or guarantees in that, particularly as it is outwith the normal legislative process. Therefore, will she take full accountability and responsibility in the event that safeguarding is not provided despite what she believes?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

To be clear to the Member: we have checked, and I am stating clearly that there are two safeguards available. First, if the individual was barred from working with vulnerable groups as a result of their previous conviction, that bar would stand and be disclosed by an Access NI check. That is the first safeguard.

Secondly, the police intelligence database search by Access NI would highlight that information was available about those individuals. Access NI would refer the application to the police, who have the statutory authority to release information for inclusion in the certificate even where a conviction has been set aside. The chief officer of police must reasonably believe that the information is relevant and ought to be included in the certificate.

The Member is, therefore, asking me to take responsibility, first of all, for a decision that is made by the Chief Constable, over whom I have no authority on operational matters, and for a decision that is taken by Access NI with regard to the screening process. What I can say is the factual situation with respect to what is in place. What I cannot do is tell the Chief Constable of the day how they should proceed and whether they would judge those issues to be pertinent. I would, however, find it hard to believe — as, I am sure, would the Member — that they would not find those issues pertinent in the context of someone's applying for a job, particularly if that job involved access to vulnerable individuals.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

I thank the Minister for coming to the Chamber. My thoughts are with the victims of those crimes who are affected by the error. I hope that the Minister agrees that it will come as a further blow to trust and confidence in the system by victims and wider society. We must accelerate the Gillen review's recommendations as part of that. Have victims been assured about the safeguards that are in place with regard to those who may have been on a register, as the Minister discussed earlier? What conversations has she had with the Chief Constable on the matter?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

I have had no conversations with the Chief Constable on the matter because it is not a matter for the Chief Constable. I have had conversations with the PPS in order to determine that we give victims all the information that is required. I had a lengthy conversation with the Director of Public Prosecutions about the need to protect victims from additional distress, and also the need where it is necessary, when the prosecutorial test has been undertaken, for those decisions to be reprosecuted where that was in victims' best interests.

It is important that Members recognise the limitations of the Justice Ministry. I cannot direct the Public Prosecution Service. There may be those who wish that I could, but I cannot. Neither can I direct the Chief Constable. Again, there may be those who wish that I could, but I cannot. What I can do is have discussions with them and put victims at the heart of what has to be done. That is what I have sought to do.

I absolutely concur that we need to move forward on Gillen. That is why we have an implementation plan, which is being shared with the Committee. That is why, as part of the miscellaneous provisions Bill that is due to come to the Committee, hopefully, in the new year, we will focus very much on taking forward the Gillen recommendations, because I recognise that, of all offences, sexual offences cases are some of the most sensitive and difficult that we will ever have to deal with in the system. They are also complex and, often, take a long time to resolve. That in itself can be traumatising to victims. When we end up in a situation like this, where people have been through the process and, then, find that those convictions are overturned, it is yet another reason for people to be anxious about bringing forward their case.

I want to reassure victims that, out of all the cases that have been tried, this was a very unique and specific error. I ask Members to caution themselves before they try to make it sound as though the whole justice system is in disarray. You do victims a disservice when you go down that road. This was a very specific and narrow issue, which occurred before the devolution of justice. There is no evidence that a similar issue has occurred since. People need to take some degree of balance and perspective for the sake of victims if for no one else.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Minister, you said that the Department conducted a full inquiry. In your statement, you said that the issue was raised in 2012. However, you told the House that you cannot tell us by whom, or with whom, it was raised in 2012. If you know that it was raised in 2012, surely you must know who raised it, and with whom and with what consequences.

Secondly, is there any DNA which will have to be removed from databases as a result of this?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

With respect to 2012, the issue was first raised within the PPS, not the Department. I do not know who within the PPS raised it or with whom they raised it. I suspect that at this stage that many of those individuals are no longer there. That is my understanding. My Department has undertaken a review of legislation because that is where we can undertake a review. We have the information available to us to be able to feed back into this and to make sure, for example, that when the PPS were notifying victims, that they considered all other potential offences that might have been caught up in this error.

With respect to 2012, I do not have information on who said what to whom at that time. Information before that period is even more scarce. I suspect that it would be held by the NIO, if it is even held at all.

In respect of DNA on the database, that will have to be reviewed. No DNA would be removed before decisions are taken as to whether or not these cases are to be reprosecuted. That is something that will have to be looked at in the round.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for coming to the House. This is a grave error. We pursue criminal justice not least to provide closure for victims of crime. Unfortunately, this has opened up a very sore wound for them. I ask the Minister to consider compensating them for their loss for the pain that they have suffered and that they will also suffer in the conclusion of this process.

Can the Minister clarify the purpose of the clause in the forthcoming justice provisions Bill? Is she concerned that there is a vulnerability within the system and that this is to protect from any future mistakes?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

First of all, if a victim decides that they want to pursue compensation as a result of this they will, of course, be free to do so. The normal processes will apply and they will have the support of Victim Support NI to be able to pursue that option. With respect to why we are adding it back in, the reason that we are doing it is that there are good grounds as to why some offences, which attract lesser sentences, may want to be tried in the Magistrates' Court because it is a quicker route to sentencing. It is not that we believe that we are closing down a potential for further error, it is simply that we believe that that particular route may be a swifter way to access justice for victims. Therefore, it was never intended to be removed from the PPS to enable them to do that. It is better that we put it back in place for a swift administration of justice.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

No other Members are indicating that they would like to ask questions. That concludes questions on the statement. Members, please take your ease for a few moments.

(Mr Deputy Speaker [Mr Beggs] in the Chair)

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I wish to update the House on the latest set of allocations aimed at addressing the evolving COVID-19 situation and the need for economic recovery.

Since my statement to the Assembly on the June monitoring round, further funding of £762·2 million has been made available to the Executive from the Treasury. Funding has also become available as a result of revised assessments of earlier COVID-19 allocations. The Department for Communities has surrendered £4 million of funding in relation to its COVID-19 Supporting People programme response due to the use of existing funding to provide that support and lower-than-anticipated PPE costs. The Executive previously held £2·2 million for their contribution to a ferry operator scheme run by the Department for Transport in England. Latest indications are that the cost will be £0·35 million, thereby releasing £1·85 million for reallocation. In addition, as a result of recent departmental assessments, some £30·9 million of capital DEL has been made available for reallocation.

I want to provide an update to the House on allocations made over the summer period. Due to the evolving situation and the need to provide support as expediently as possible, the Executive allocated £123 million of funding on 13 August. That set of allocations enabled schools and further education facilities to reopen safely, provided apprenticeship places and supported social enterprises. Two limited allocations were made on 11 September, reflecting the urgency of additional higher education places and PPE for the education sector as schools reopened.

Following a meeting of the Executive last Thursday, further allocations totalling £165·2 million have been agreed. Given the concerns around waste management and the need to meet pressures resulting from increased landfill and waste management costs, DAERA has been allocated £11·4 million to support those key services. Local councils have been at the forefront of vital recovery services despite experiencing a reduction in their income. Councils will also play a key role in economic recovery, and in recognition of that, £40 million has been allocated to the Department for Communities to support councils. Given the severe impact of COVID on the arts sector and the need to support the reopening of venues, £29 million has been allocated to the Department for Communities for cultural recovery. That is in addition to £4 million that was previously allocated for the cultural resilience fund and means that the Executive have provided £33 million to support that sector.

The Executive recognise the need for further support for businesses, and, in recognition of the ongoing hardships faced, the Department for the Economy has been funded to support a number of initiatives: £8·5 million for assistance to business, to encourage new businesses, help retain employees, attract FDI and boost the screen industry and games sector; £8·4 million for skills and youth training, to ensure that young people can continue learning and employers have access to people with the skills and qualifications needed to recover and grow their businesses; £9·9 million for tourism, to support tour operators, promote the North as a tourism destination and assist businesses to adapt to changed market conditions; £5·8 million for university R&D, to replace and protect jobs and help universities to focus on the research needed to fight the outbreak and support the economic recovery; £1·9 million for air-route support, to develop air routes that are critical to economic development; and £1·4 million for energy, and that funding will implement a demonstrator project to kick-start the hydrogen economy.

Those allocations should all help to spur economic recovery. The Executive have allocated £8 million to maintain a safe environment for schools through to March 2021, with a further £1 million to help preschools meet the additional costs of reopening.

Young people’s education has been affected by COVID-19, and an allocation of £0·2 million has been made to support children with additional and special educational needs.

An allocation of £1·6 million was made to the Department of Health in relation to the track, trace and protect app. The mobile app was launched on 30 July to support the Public Health Agency (PHA) contact-tracing programme and help to minimise the spread of COVID-19.

Given the winter pressures identified by the Department for Infrastructure and the need to ensure that key transport corridors are accessible during the winter months, the Executive allocated £5 million for the Roads Service to provide vital gritting and gully-cleaning services. The £14·8 million capital allocated to the A6 demonstrates the Executive’s commitment to delivering this vital dual carriageway between Belfast and Derry. That allocation will ensure that delays in construction, caused by the COVID-19 lockdown earlier in the year, will now be made good. Members will be aware of the limitations to development being caused in many areas by historical underinvestment in waste water infrastructure. The £15 million capital allocation to Northern Ireland Water will provide investment to upgrade sewers, waste water treatment works and pumping stations.

Full details of all allocations since August are set out in the tables that accompany this statement.

Following the latest round of allocations, the Executive retain a central fund of £55·2 million to be held for further sectoral support, including airports, travel agents, and a scheme being developed by the Department for Infrastructure targeting the taxi and coach sectors. In addition, £600 million continues to be held centrally pending the Department of Health's assessment of costs for 2020-21. Further decisions on funding will be made following the Department of Health's assessment of need, and proposals from Departments on further sectoral support.

The Executive continue to respond to the changing environment that COVID-19 brings. The allocations that I have set out will contribute to our aims of supporting businesses, protecting the vulnerable and ensuring the continuation of key public services.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and for meeting me earlier. Thank you very much indeed for keeping me informed of the information so far.

The Assembly can welcome the £2·2 billion that we have received from the rest of our nation. It underlines the benefits of being part of our precious Union.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Hear, hear.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I expect a bit more than that.

Some Members

Hear, hear.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Right, thank you very much indeed.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

[Inaudible.]

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

Minister, I am particularly pleased to see the allocations for resources. However, I note in the statement — this is not a criticism of the Finance Department — issues around the excluded, taxi drivers, the haulage industry and details on the Kickstart scheme. Maybe the Minister could say whether he has received bids from the Department for the Economy or the Department for Infrastructure for those things, which have been at least six months in gestation.

I note that we have £55 million in reserve. I also note, as my honourable friend from South Belfast continuously talks about, the issue of £2·2 million in air passenger duty (APD) that we keep giving back to the Treasury despite the fact that some of our airports need resource to keep going, in particular to maintain a 24-hour operation at Belfast International Airport. There is a real need for financial support to do that, especially with the importance of freight.

The Ulster Unionist Party, and me as Chair of the Finance Committee and leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, welcome the additional money for the A6 and Northern Ireland Water. Bearing in mind that that money needs to be spent —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Can the Member come to his question?

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

— by the end of the financial year, can the Finance Minister explain how that money will be spent by the end of the financial year, bearing in mind the difficulties of writing contracts and getting suitable business cases put forward?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Committee Chair for his questions and commentary on the statement and allocations.

It is frustrating that it has taken some time to find a solution between Departments for sectors that were left out. Responsibility for a number of those sectors falls between Departments. It has taken some time, and an intervention by the First Minister and the deputy First Minister. Additional support and power have been given to Departments to make sure that they could deal with that.

The work on coaches and taxis is being done, and I have not yet received a bid. As the Member identified, we have held aside £55 million to allow for that bid, and, perhaps, a number of others for different sectors. There will also be further airport costs. That money is to try to cover those.

That, as with all the COVID money, as the Member correctly identified, has to be spent within the financial year, so we need to make sure that that work is done quickly and the costings brought forward as quickly as they can be so that the Executive, if they support whatever bid is made, can bring forward further allocations.

I get the point — others have raised it — in relation to APD. The Department for the Economy still feels that it is an important tool to support air connectivity. If it changes its view on that, I will happily consider that. In relation to Northern Ireland Water, it has identified somewhere in the region of 11 schemes that it wants to get on with, but it is obviously a matter for the Department for Infrastructure to ensure that the allocation is spent. Departments know when they bid for this money — we have had long conversations with them about it — that it is COVID money. It has to be spent in this financial year, so those who are bidding for capital know the constraints in relation to that. I assume that they have made those bids in the full expectation that they can spend the money in the time available.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

As Members will be aware, some discretion is being shown to Committee Chairs to ask a question

[Laughter]

so I ask all Members to make a brief introduction and then come to their question.

Paul Frew (DUP, North Antrim)

I want to put on record that I welcome the funding towards the hydrogen energy economy project. I believe that that will assist not only in the recovery but in the coming years with regard to the climate emergency and the recovery of industry in my constituency and wider afield in Northern Ireland.

Is it not frustrating when we have a large pot of money — £55 million — sitting at the centre that could be used to help to alleviate the pain and suffering of some of our industries that have carried on throughout this COVID emergency, not least the haulage companies and the taxi and coach sectors, who have been penalised further by the Infrastructure Minister's slowness on MOTs, PSVs and licence requirements for drivers?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I cannot answer for the Infrastructure Minister in relation to those other matters, and I am sure that those are issues that you will raise directly with her. I know that there was an issue between the Department for the Economy and the Department for Infrastructure in relation to supporting those sectors that you have outlined, and it was quite clear that, for the Department for Infrastructure to accept that, it needed to have some additional powers conferred on it. So, it was not just a straightforward, "Who wants to take this case and who is going to run with it?". It took some time to resolve that. That is frustrating, particularly if you are a sector that is waiting on support in very challenging economic times. So, I am glad that that has been resolved, and I look forward to a submission being brought along so that the Executive can consider an allocation to a number of those sectors.

In relation to the hydrogen scheme, there is funding in there to have a test project in relation to that. I am due to have a cross-departmental discussion with a number of other Ministers in the near future to get further information about that, and I know that it is something that people have been advocating very strongly.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Minister, have you received bids from any of the groups — some are from my constituency — that have been excluded from previous schemes —?

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order, order. I urge Members to stand adjacent to a microphone to get appropriate distancing and so that everyone can hear for the record.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I will ask the same question again. Have you received bids from any of the groups — many are from my constituency — that have been excluded from previous schemes? What arrangements are being made to accommodate those people?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am sure that we have all received representation from various sectors that, for one reason or another, have fallen through the gaps in relation to the supports that have been made available to date. We have talked about the coaches and taxis, and I know that travel agents, newspapers, self-employed and newly self-employed people have been making cases. There are difficulties with some of those, particularly in relation to the self-employed. It would involve the assistance, or, certainly, the oversight of HMRC, which may not be available to us.

There have been challenges, and some of those have been because they fall between Departments and getting people to accept responsibility for that. There are also challenges for some of the sectors around giving support and verifying that that support was going to the right people. There are a number of challenges around all that, and I feel very much for those who are continuing to struggle and feel that they have been left out, and I know that the Executive are keen to try and give support as quickly as they can to them. That is why I have kept a pot of money in reserve so that we can do that as quickly as possible.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

I think that it is worth saying up front that I do not think that there is any legal doubt over whether it was the Infrastructure Minister or the Economy Minister's legal vires to support certain sectors; it was the Economy Minister's. On that note, in a previous life, I used to do improvisational comedy when I was much, much younger, and, unfortunately, there seems to be a high degree of improvisation around business support.

We have £40 million allocated to business support, including £8·5 million that is just called "assistance to business". That seems to be very whack-a-mole and improvised. Why has the Economy Minister not worked with the Finance Minister to produce a joined-up economic recovery plan that explains exactly where the money is going and why it is going to particular places? Further to that, just at the bottom of the table —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

— there is —.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Order. I have been flexible with the individual. I allowed him a long introduction. This is an opportunity to ask a question of the Minister.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Everybody will have their version of where the issues lay between Economy and Infrastructure in assisting some sectors. I am just pleased that the matter has been resolved and that Infrastructure has undertaken to do it. I look forward to working with the Infrastructure Minister to identify how we get support to those sectors.

A statement such as this has to be condensed. I could speak for two or three hours, but the Speaker might take issue with that. The £8·5 million is for:

"assistance to business, to encourage new businesses, help retain employees, attract FDI and boost the screen industry and games sector".

I am sure that the Member can get more detail on that from the Department for the Economy, should he choose to engage with it.

The Department for the Economy produced its own economic recovery document. The Executive produced a framework for economic recovery, against which the allocations were set. It took a little time over the summer to get that together, which is why we waited until it was available to us. It was not a question of the Economy Minister and I working together; the Executive made the allocations against their own framework.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Minister for his statement. I am disappointed that those who have been excluded from support and hauliers are not included in the funds. For hauliers, I note that powers have been passed or were meant to be passed to the Infrastructure Minister, but that has not yet occurred. It is concerning that a significant number of Barnett consequentials are coming to Northern Ireland, yet there has not been, for example, a bid for funding and a scheme rolled out for the Kickstart scheme, even though that was announced in Great Britain —

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

Will the Member come to his question?

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

— back in July. What measures is the Minister taking to ensure that the moneys are spent in this financial year and that we will not surrender any moneys at the end of it?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The Member will know that something coming across as a Barnett consequential does not automatically go to the same issue; it is up to the Executive to decide how to use that money. Clearly, the Executive, having ensured that the health system has enough money to cope with the pandemic, wanted to turn their mind to economic recovery. The economy has suffered greatly because of the pandemic and the associated lockdowns and restrictions. We wanted to ensure that we targeted the limited resource — it is a limited resource — to the best effect for economic recovery.

A significant amount of work has been done among officials in all Departments. They are clear that the COVID allocations are for this financial year. Money that is bid for and schemes that are put forward have to be spent in this financial year. We will continue to monitor that. As I said at the start of my statement, a number of surrenders have been added to the pot, where people identified early on that they did not need money that had been previously allocated and it has been returned. We will keep a close eye on Departments to make sure that that happens over the coming weeks and months.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Given the need to change the way in which we operate during a pandemic, particularly in the health service, will any money being held centrally be ring-fenced for the much-needed health service transformation?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

As I said, £600 million is being held centrally. The Minister of Health will bring forward an assessment. COVID money has to be spent this year. It is a substantial amount of money, but the health service can make use of a substantial amount of money. He will bring forward details on that, because we want to be clear that there is enough money to cope with what is coming at us. It is clear that there will be another COVID surge, which will coincide with the winter flu to create significant difficulties for the health service, so we need to make sure that it is properly resourced. In those costs, he is also looking at recovery in the health system. He will bring forward to us an assessment of what he needs and what he can spend in this financial year. As I say, £600 million is a lot of money to cover that. If he does not require it all, that will be put back into the pot and reallocated to other areas, but I know that recovery and assistance for the health service generally is part of his thinking for spending that money.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, will you join me in encouraging Minister Mallon to use some of the £15 million allocated to NI Water for the residents of Galliagh Shore in Enniskillen?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am sure that Members have received correspondence from people involved. It seems to be an appalling situation, and I have strong sympathy for residents there who have found themselves, through no fault of their own, in a situation where the services, in terms of sewage and waste water to their houses, have not been finished and there does not seem to be any route to get that finished. We have, as I said in the statement, allocated £15 million capital to Northern Ireland Water specifically for schemes. We recently provided additional funding to Northern Ireland Water of £27 million of resource as well, so I hope that the Infrastructure Department can, now that it has sufficient resource, engage with the residents in that Galliagh Shore scheme and see if they can find a resolution to those unacceptable problems.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

Minister, how much has been allocated to Translink to date? I note in the statement that the most recent allocation is £20 million, and it has appeared in every statement so far. What is the total that Translink has been in receipt of? Was there a missed opportunity for Translink to avail itself of additional support through the furlough scheme, which would have allowed Executive funding to have gone into other schemes?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I do not have the figures, but, as I have dealt with this a number of times over the last number of months, I think — if I need to correct this, I will come back and correct it — that we gave an additional £20 million to Translink in the Budget in March above and beyond what the Department for Infrastructure received, and I think that a further £70 million has been allocated from the COVID allocations to Translink. My guess is that about £90 million has been given to Translink since March.

The Member asked a question about furlough. I know that the Infrastructure Minister looked at that. I gave advice because, initially, people considered that furlough was only for the private sector and we then became aware that the public sector could avail itself of it in certain circumstances. Translink was, I think, eligible for that — some of the workers there were — and the Department for Infrastructure and Translink looked at that and decided not to take the route. I do not know why; that is a matter for the Minister for Infrastructure and the CEO of Translink to answer. I think that it has received in the region of £90 million in additional funding since the start of the financial year.

Caoimhe Archibald (Sinn Féin, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Minister, £55·2 million has been held centrally and you have outlined that it is for sectoral support, including airports, travel agents, taxis and coaches. Can you give us an update on the planned financial support for airports, please?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. We provided some COVID support to airports that made a case and needed that money. Business has begun to pick up again, which is good news for our three airports. There is consideration of security and safety costs to the airports, and we will attempt to provide further support in relation to that. Obviously, that discussion will have to be had with each of the three airports, and we will see what assistance might be required. We also have to match that against the resource that we have to give them. The Executive have held back a pot of £55 million and agreed that some of that will be allocated to airports. We need to have that discussion with them fairly soon to see what is required.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for his statement, and I welcome the further allocated support, particularly for our arts sector. Will the Minister agree with me that all signs seem to be pointing towards a further lockdown? That being the case, what planning has his Department done to put support in place for when that inevitably happens?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I am not sure that it is inevitable. I suppose that we can all look at how things are developing and make our own guess. We have not received any advice at the Executive that a further lockdown is required. Obviously, there are restrictions in place in the home setting, but a further lockdown would directly impact on businesses. We have not received that advice. As I said, there is a pot set aside for a number of interventions. Should there be money left when those interventions are made, I will go back to the Executive to ask whether they want to reallocate what is left or to keep, in case we get to the type of lockdown scenario that the Member talks about, some money set aside into the new year, bearing it in mind that it has to be spent by the end of the financial year, to see what the pandemic might throw at us in the time ahead. It would be prudent to keep some money in the pot for emergency assistance should that be required.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

I acknowledge that the Minister faces two massive challenges: protecting public services and trying to preserve the fabric of society. On the latter, I very much welcome the money for the arts that is now being released.

My question is about sport. The chief executive of the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) has spoken about an existential threat to the future of professional rugby on the island, including Ulster. The all-party group on sport last week heard a common theme from governing bodies. Gate receipts are drying up, sponsors are either withdrawing or seeking to renegotiate and money is very tight. Can the Minister give clarity to the sports on where they stand in the Executive's priorities, please?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I can speak personally as somebody who continues to be involved in sport. The benefit to society generally is immeasurable. I was fortunate enough to attend a hurling final yesterday in Armagh, and I know about the organisation that goes into that to ensure that people are safe and socially distanced and that the crowds are controlled by people who are volunteers and who put their own health at risk by undertaking to do that to allow people to get the enjoyment and value of attending a live sports event. For me, that is a huge benefit, and it makes a huge contribution to society in engaging with young people and giving them direction, support and positivity in their lives.

By all means, we try to support sport as much as we can. I recognise clearly the limitations that there are with crowds. In this part of the island we are fortunate that we can have some attendance at games, whereas, in the Southern part, you cannot. There is a huge challenge for rugby, Gaelic, soccer and all sports, and we have to keep engaging with them to see how best we can help. I noticed that the Government in Dublin made some intervention with the GAA in carrying out the all-Ireland county championships. I am sure that that is welcome. That will apply in the Six Counties as well. We have to continue that engagement with the sports and see what we can do to support them. As I said, the work that sportspeople do — the vast bulk of it voluntary — for us is immeasurable in its benefit.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Minister, I also welcome the statement, in particular the extra funding for the A6 development and your ongoing commitment to addressing regional inequalities. The allocations were made alongside the announcement of a job support scheme, which is also critical to economic recovery. What is your initial assessment of the new scheme?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There was a clear demand from the employers that we spoke to, and we have been articulating to the Treasury for some months the idea that a cliff edge in October for the furlough scheme, as it is more popularly known, would be disastrous for businesses, employers and employees here and would see large-scale redundancies. I am pleased that some form of scheme has continued, but it is nowhere near as generous and will present significant challenges, particularly to low-paid and part-time employees. The support is much reduced from that of the previous job retention scheme and there is a vast difference between the two, but I have to say that it is better than having no scheme. It will present some significant challenges, and I do no doubt that we will see an increase in redundancies as a consequence.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Thank you very much to the Minister. I am delighted to see that the statement includes a kick-start to the hydrogen economy. We now have the opportunity to resolve Northern Ireland Water's problems if only we were to make it produce hydrogen. Do not get my geek up on that one.

When you get to this stage in questions — the Deputy Speaker has been very kind — it can be that all the questions have been asked. Mine is about joined-up working between the Minister's Department and the Treasury. Is this it? Is this the last of the money that we will see this year? We know, as you mentioned, that councils are vital to delivering on the ground. The Society of Local Authority Chief Executives (SOLACE) told us that local government needed £40 million just to break even. Will there be any more money coming from Treasury, or do we need to send a clear message that that is it from big government and the rest has to be brought in with income?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I have to say that there has been no indication that anything more is coming. As a matter of fact, when we received the significant allocation, particularly for the Department of Health, which we set aside, we were told very clearly that that was the last COVID money from Treasury. Whether that changes will very much be determined not by what goes on here but, more than likely, what goes on in southern England and whether there is a change to that. For instance, when we raised the furlough scheme, which was mentioned in the previous question, we received clear advice that that was it, but they have now come forward with some form of job retention scheme, albeit much reduced.

We do not know whether we will get further allocations. Other pressures might come to bear on the Government in London and force them to change their mind, but we have to operate on the basis of what we know we have. That is why we are saying to people that, apart from the money set aside for Health, which may well all be used by Health, and the £55 million set aside for other sectors, as far as the Executive are concerned, we have no further COVID allocations to make.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement to the House this afternoon. Will you give me a bit more detail about the £80 million in financial transactions capital (FTC) for Ulster University? This comes on top of a switch earlier this year from FTC to cash allowance. Why is this coming from the Executive Office?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Member for her question. She is right: FTC of £80 million has been agreed for the Ulster University's Belfast campus project. It is not an allocation specific to COVID recovery but a planned allocation as part of this project, and it needs to be agreed now to allow the project to access the required funding. Conditional approval has already been given by the Department for the Economy and the Department of Finance for the loan to Ulster University in respect of its Belfast project, and due diligence has been undertaken by Economy on the stability of the project and the capability of the university.

The Executive Office had opted in to playing a role in what is a hugely critical project, not just for Belfast but, by implication, through its knock-on effect, for Magee. It is critical that Ulster University is able to complete these very significant projects. The Executive Office has become involved to ensure that the project, the significance of which goes beyond Belfast or, indeed, the Economy Department, is delivered properly.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. These allocations will, for some, plug a gap, but not for all. So many are still excluded. What is missing — Mr O'Toole touched on it — is funding for a long-term, coherent green plan for economic recovery. What discussions have there been across the Executive, and your Department, on funding this? When will we see such a plan come forward?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

The process that we are dealing with is COVID allocations: money that we received from Treasury this year that was not in the plans last February/March when we were setting the Budget or even when we were discussing the idea of a revamped Programme for Government. This money has come to us and has to be allocated within this year. So, we are not talking about long-term plans being attached to this; we are talking about economic recovery in the here and now, meeting the challenges of the pandemic and trying to assist businesses to get through this crisis. That does not set aside the fact that the Executive will set a Budget coming into the autumn. We will consult on that and agree it in early spring. I hope that it will be a multi-annual Budget, if we can get clarity from Treasury. That Budget, and the Programme for Government that accompanies it, will be where the discussion on long-term, green recovery planning should be had.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

I assume that all the money announced today is not COVID money. The capital money, for example, seems to be a reallocation of money that was surrendered. Can the Minister give us any indication of how far there has been departure under Barnett from the pigeonholes in respect of which the COVID money was allocated to how it is being spent? I would like some picture of the disaggregation.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I can get you that detail. I do not have it to hand. Over the last six months, we have made a number of COVID allocations. Generally, they have come in a fairly broad category. We got a significant amount for Health, which we are sitting on until Health decides what it needs. A significant amount came across for PPE, and we have used some of that to purchase PPE for Health and other Departments. I do not see a huge amount of departure. Broadly speaking, there was the economic recovery money and the resilience money for the Health Department. However, I can certainly get those figures. We will supply those to you.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for his statement. Most of this money will obviously be welcome, but it will not address some of the longer-term issues re the lack of funding for our services. The Minister will be aware that Rishi Sunak has indicated his preference for corporation tax to increase by 5%. Does the Minister have any views on that? Would you like it to increase by 5% or more? If so, how much extra money would that bring in for public services here?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

There has been no discussion on a corporation tax increase or decrease. As a matter of fact, both myself and the Minister for the Economy said that it is not something that we are considering at this time.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Minister. Minister, forgive me but it does not really feel like this statement, aside from its title, is on COVID-related allocations. Indeed, it could be argued that a lot of the allocations that you have made were gaps that existed before the pandemic. Will the Minister's Department audit how it is spent — for example, within councils and universities — so that it goes directly to difficulties related to COVID-19?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Yes. Of course we will continue to engage. Departments put forward bids in detail which is not available in the statement, but you are more than free to put questions to Departments to get information on any of the money that they received. Councils have been at the forefront of assisting and fighting this pandemic, in terms of not just the services that they provide but how they harness the public and voluntary spirit that is out there in the country. They assisted with services like food parcels that I do not think that the Executive would have been able to deliver themselves. Councils also suffered a significant loss of income, as many businesses did. They are a critical part of joined-up government.

The bid for councils was more than we were able to give, but it was important to give support to councils. I have had engagements with NILGA and other council representatives to hear at first hand the problems that they continue to have. It is important to give councils support. As we head towards what looks like another increase and possibly another surge in the virus, the role of councils will be critical.

We do engage. Departments put in detailed bids. Those are interrogated. We asked them to rank the bids in order of importance. They were also set against the framework recovery document to make sure that they will make a contribution to economic recovery.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

Minister, a great deal of responsibility tennis has been played by various Ministers about who is responsible for providing additional support for businesses that, to date, have not been able to avail themselves of support or intervention from the Executive. A motion to that effect was passed unanimously in here two weeks ago. Have you had a bid from the Minister for the Economy yet? In the absence of one, are you, with your Executive colleagues, in a position to create a package of support for those SMEs that have, to date, missed out?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

No, not as yet. We can debate all day whose responsibility these things are, and it has gone back and forward. To be quite honest, I can only make a recommendation for allocations; that is what I do. I bring that to the Executive on the basis of a bid made by a Department; I have been very clear about that. I do not have the authority or responsibility to put together packages of support from the Finance Department. We assess what is brought to us and then make a recommendation to the Executive with the funding that is available to us.

To be quite honest, I am more interested in people getting on together, working on these things and starting to get support out to where it is needed. We have done that very well. I am sure that, like many other Members, you engage with people in business and other areas. They have greatly appreciated the rates reliefs and all the support that has been given to the public to assist in fighting the pandemic. However, there are sectors that are still understandably annoyed at being left out. The sooner that we can put that together and get support to them, the better.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank Members for asking questions. All Members' questions have been taken.

Members, the next item of business on the Order Paper is Question Time at 2.00 pm. I therefore propose, by leave of the Assembly, that we suspend the sitting briefly until then. The sitting is, by leave, suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 1.54 pm.

On resuming (Mr Speaker in the Chair) —

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As I informed Members at the start of the sitting, the First Minister will be responding today.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

1. Ms Bradshaw asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the work of the inter-departmental working group on mother and baby Homes, Magdalene laundries and historical clerical child abuse, particularly the issue of clerical child abuse. (AQO 739/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Department of Health leads the work on the mother and baby Homes and Magdalene laundries, while the Executive Office leads the work on historical clerical child abuse. Ministers are aware of the impact that clerical abuse has had on many individuals' lives and the importance of progressing the work. The working group intends to commission a research project on clerical child abuse later this year. The terms of reference will be formally agreed later, but it is intended that it will cover opportunities to improve existing safeguarding practice as well as how best to engage with victims and survivors.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

I thank the First Minister. I met Executive Office officials probably three years ago, and they were talking about the terms of reference for this research. Is there any way that you could push that forward? Obviously, a lot of the victims are very distressed at the delay.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for her question. Indeed, I know that many of the victims have been lobbying hard on that. I very much would like to see the work being taken forward in a more timely fashion. As the Member will know, the Department of Health appointed Judith Gillespie to take forward some of the work in relation to the mother and baby Homes. As part of that, she has been engaging widely. She succeeded Peter McBride, as the Member probably knows as well. All of that was happening during suspension, and then Ms Gillespie was appointed by the Department of Health recently.

It is important that we take the issues forward. There is a lot to be done on the matter. In some ways, it also goes alongside the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse (COSICA) appointment, which I will address later. It is important that we move all these issues forward so that people can get closure and the restitution and justice that they so rightly deserve.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

Do our joint First Ministers think that the compensation levels that were offered for the data breach by the interim advocate's office were suitable for the level of trauma that some of those people experienced?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Chair, better than most, will realise that this is a legal process, and, therefore, we are dealing with our lawyers. They are dealing with all these matters. It would be wrong of me to intervene on those matters because some of them will end up in court. It is important that we reference and respect that.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Is it intended to have a redress scheme for clerical abuse that is similar in type to that in place for historical institutional abuse (HIA)?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

People who were in institutions such as the mother and baby Homes up to the age of 18 can apply for redress through the scheme that exists. We will have to see, after the piece of work by Judith Gillespie is done and, indeed, given the wider terms of reference for clerical abuse, whether any gaps remain. I should say, very clearly, that those who were in mother and baby Homes up to the age of 18 can seek redress through the historical institutional abuse inquiry.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

How will the Minister's office ensure that the voices of victims, who feel let down and excluded so far, will be heard throughout and at the end of the process?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

We have made good strides in listening to victims' voices. I will answer a question later about the commissioner appointment. It is important that we also reference the fact that Judith Gillespie is proceeding with her piece of work and is working with victims and survivors as well. That is important. The piece of work that she is taking forward is very difficult but important. We wish her well and look forward to what she has to say when she has finished it.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

2. Mr Humphrey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on their response to the COVID-19 pandemic. (AQO 740/17-22)

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

9. Dr Aiken asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline their approach to reinforcing COVID-19 protection messages. (AQO 747/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will answer questions 2 and 9 together. Whilst COVID-19 is primarily a health pandemic, it is also causing significant societal and economic impacts. The Executive's response, therefore, aims to deliver a balanced package of measures that will target support where it is needed most across all the areas. The Executive's approach continues to be flexible in responding to the emerging situation. Most recently, it included the introduction of restrictions in domestic settings, initially on a postcode basis and then extended to all households given the concerning levels of transmission across the community. The focus of those restrictions on household settings is informed by the evidence that we have from the test, trace, protect programme, which tells us that household transmission and informal interactions in the community are playing a role in increased positive case numbers. We continue to keep the situation under very close review, and we are prepared to respond as necessary in order to flatten the rate of infection and, ultimately, save lives.

These have been the most challenging of times for people, and we understand that they are weary of COVID-19. However, it is crucial that everyone continues to follow the consistent public health messaging. The Executive's high-impact, cross-platform public information campaign continually reinforces the message on social distancing, maintaining good hand and respiratory hygiene, wearing face coverings and downloading the StopCOVID NI app. We want to ensure that that information is communicated to as wide an audience as possible, and last week the deputy First Minister and I made a public address to update everyone in the community on the current situation and to reinforce those crucial messages. That was broadcast live on a number of platforms, and the viewing figures for the BBC alone were over 230,000.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the First Minister for her answers so far. Can I take the opportunity on this, 28 September, to wish the First Minister a very happy Ulster Day?

Many Members will have been contacted by constituents who are concerned about cancer care for their loved ones or, indeed, for themselves. Is the First Minister satisfied that progress is being made on access to non-COVID treatments in our health service?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member and wish him a happy Ulster Day as well.

Non-COVID healthcare concerns the Executive greatly. I was pleased that the Health Minister brought forward his new cancer strategy paper to the Executive last week and informed the House in a written statement about all that. It is very important that we look at the short and medium-term plan to rebuild and, indeed, to stabilise our cancer, oncology and haematology services, because that rebuilding plan is critical in trying to deal with all those very difficult diagnoses. We very much want to focus on that as well, of course, as dealing with COVID. We want to make sure that the trusts have their plans in place in order to deal with all the non-COVID healthcare as well.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I call Steve Aiken, whose question 9 was grouped with question 2.

Steve Aiken (UUP, South Antrim)

I am sorry. My apologies. I withdraw the question.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Joint First Minister, has the Department reviewed the communications strategy on the COVID response?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As I indicated in my substantive answer, we made a communication directly to the people of Northern Ireland last Tuesday. One of the issues that we have been concerned about over these past number of days and weeks is the messaging for our young people and the ability to get the message to them. It is important that everyone hears, understands and acts upon key messages. We have now put in place a digital campaign that is targeted specifically at our young people, and we are working in partnership with organisations like Cool FM and are using social media and something called Mobsta. The Member might be able to tell me what that is, because I am not quite sure. I am sure that many of our young people would be able to tell me. Apparently, we are going to use Mobsta to do some digital advertising that will target 16 to 25-year-olds, including students, based on their location data. Obviously, if they are in Queens or in Ulster University or wherever we will be able to get some messages to them.

We are very much proactively looking at our messaging and at making sure that we get messages out as wide as we possibly can.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

Minister, I often travel under those electronic road signs on the motorway that say:

"The speed limit is not a target".

In other words, just because you can, does not mean you should. Therefore, does the First Minister believe that the other Executive party leaders undermined the Executive's healthcare message by travelling to Dublin to do a meeting that could have been done on Zoom?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is a matter that I am sure my colleagues will be able to answer for themselves. It is important that we do give leadership in these issues, and that we set forth what we would expect other people to do as well. I happen to think that the advertisement of the speed limit not being a target is very effective, and I hope that we can use more of those sorts of quirky advertisements to get out our COVID message as well. As I said, it is important that we reach as many people as possible.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

3. Mr G Kelly asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they intend to bring forward legislation that recognises sectarianism as a hate crime. (AQO 741/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will ask junior Minister Kearney to answer this question.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Ministers in the Executive have a shared commitment to ending sectarianism. Positive work is ongoing across the Together: Building a United Community Strategy to tackle sectarianism and other forms of intolerance in our society.

In May, the Department of Justice appointed Judge Desmond Marrinan to carry out an independent review of hate crime legislation here. Judge Marrinan is due to provide his final report to the Minister of Justice for consideration by the end of November. It is necessary to await the outcome of that review before further decisions can be taken on a way forward.

Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for his answer up to now. In terms of the New Deal, New Approach (NDNA) commitment, will the Minister confirm his commitment that the Executive will bring forward concrete proposals to:

"formulate and require all public representatives to commit to an anti-sectarian pledge."?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an chomhalta as ucht an cheist sin a chur. A whole-society approach is required to tackle the scourge of sectarianism in all its manifestations in our society. I am very mindful of and fully supportive of the commitments in New Decade, New Approach to ending sectarianism, which include an enhanced strategic focus in the Programme for Government on ending sectarianism; a re-affirmation of support for the right to freedom from sectarianism, sectarian harassment and intimidation; a wish to see sectarianism given legal expression as hate crime; and a commitment that the Executive should formulate and require all public representatives to commit to anti-sectarian pledge.

There is a particular responsibility on all public representatives to lead by example. I am committed to working with Executive colleagues to bring forward practical proposals on an anti-sectarian pledge for all public representatives, in a matter that delivers and is consistent with our NDNA commitments. I am committed to engaging and working with all Assembly colleagues, who are committed to exploring how we may collectively make a stand against sectarianism as the basis for building an inclusive, shared and better united future for all of us.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you Mr Speaker. You will forgive me for nearly choking on the words "anti-sectarian pledge" from the Member. Does the junior Minister recognise the crass hypocrisy involved in Mr Kelly's question and indeed his response, given that over the course of the weekend Mr Kelly not only glorified in, but gloated at, a terrorist escape at the Maze that resulted in the murder of a prison officer and the injury of another? Does he accept that that stands in stark contrast to building a united community? Those are shameful actions from a member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

As you did not put a question to the junior Minister, we will move on to Justin McNulty.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

Sectarianism is accepted as a form of racial abuse. After over 10 years of a DUP-Sinn Féin duopoly here, will the office of the joint First Ministers tell me at what stage their Department is at with the long-overdue implementation of a racial equality strategy?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The Member, of course, will be aware that we have a five-party power-sharing coalition and that his party is an integral part of that coalition. We have commitments in relation to taking NDNA forward that rest at the very heart of the restoration of power sharing. We have the racial equality strategy 2015-2025, and the work that is involved in addressing racism in our society must be seen as part of the overall package for eradicating intolerance and all forms of bigotry in our society, regardless of the source or against which section of society that is targeted.

The work that we have in hand in the context of that strategy continues apace. It is my firm view that all Ministers and, I hope, all parties that are members of our power-sharing Executive will share the common ambition of taking forward and implementing that strategy successfully, so that we can build a genuine, shared, inclusive and united society.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Does the junior Minister think that it would help towards a shared and inclusive society if his party — not least the questioner, in this case — put an end to tweeting the glorification of terrorism, which, in many cases, was crassly sectarian in itself in the choice of victims by the IRA? Would he like to give a lead by indicating that his party will now eschew such glorification of terrorism, or will we be subject to more of the same?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

I thank the Member for that question. The reality, as the Member well knows, is that we all have narratives around our past and the conflict that we have lived through. For the past 100 years, those narratives have been in conflict with each other. What we need to do, particularly in the context of this mandate of renewed power-sharing, is to come together on the basis of respecting different narratives and to agree to disagree. We will not agree on the past, but we can do our level best, collectively and inclusively, to try to build a united future for everyone in society.

Next year marks the centenary of partition in our island and it can throw up the prospect of a very contested year where we disagree vehemently about what happened in the past. Perhaps, however, one of the things that we should try to do next year — I invite the Member to take this point on board for some further reflection — is rather than descend into the vortex of continually and relentlessly fighting over issues of the past, we should look towards the centenary of partition as an opportunity to develop a new dialogue and discourse in society about how we can build for the future.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

4. Mr McHugh asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the work of the north-west development fund. (AQO 742/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The north-west development fund has approved funding in place until December 2021, which includes an extension of the funding period to take account of COVID pressures on projects. The total committed investment by the Executive is approximately £2·15 million. That commitment is match-funded by the Republic of Ireland's Government as agreed in the Fresh Start Agreement of 2015. The north-west development fund has delivered a number of successful projects across three regional development pillars. Some examples are developing economic growth through trade and investment missions, developing the physical environment by contributing to the INTERREG greenways project and, through north-west sports development, strengthening community cohesion and well-being.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

I thank the First Minister for her answer. Will she give an assurance that she will work with the Dublin Government to deliver the NDNA commitments to provide further financial support to the fund?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. The reference in 'New Decade, New Approach', at page 60, states:

"The Irish Government is committed to exploring opportunities for investment that will further support opportunities to bring greater economic prosperity and social benefits to the wider region ... and is committed in principle to providing further funding to the North West Development Fund in collaboration with the Northern Ireland Executive."

I understand that the north-west regional development group wrote to us recently seeking a continuation of the fund beyond the current arrangements that are in place, as I say, until the end of 2021. We will look at that in the future to see what is possible. We will also look at how broad the fund can be right across the north-west, because it is important that there be equity in how the fund is distributed.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

Does the First Minister accept that there is much more to the north-west than the maiden city? Are Ministers open to the wider hinterland and areas that extend out further than the maiden city also benefiting from the funding?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Yes, I accept that the north-west is greater than the maiden city. It is important that that be recognised and taken into account by Derry City and Strabane District Council and Causeway Coast and Glens Borough Council. The north-west goes across a number of regions, and it is important, going forward, that that be reflected in the work.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

5. Ms Dolan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the work undertaken to amend the Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998. (AQO 743/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Mr Speaker, with your permission, junior Minister Kearney will answer this question.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

There are several potential amendments to the Fair Employment and Treatment (NI) Order 1998 being considered by various business areas in the Executive Office. Those extend to the inclusion of monitoring information as regards nationality and ethnic origin; the repeal or amendment of the teachers' exception in article 71, which was created in 1976 to address the imbalance in employment opportunities for teachers; and an amendment to article 2(4) to reflect the changed circumstances of a post-conflict society, enabling ex-prisoners and their families to transition into making a positive contribution to society.

Jemma Dolan (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for his answer. Can he outline the progress made in implementing the employers' guidance in respect of public-sector recruitment and vetting?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Yes, I can. The employers' guidance was designed to assist employers to follow best practice and is aimed at reducing barriers to employment and enhancing the reintegration of those with conflict-related convictions. This week, junior Minister Lyons and I met members of the review panel for an update on their work. We had a very positive and informative discussion with panel members. We recognise that a lot of good work has been and continues to be taken forward. However, whilst there have been key successes and progress in a number of areas to date, including intervention on individual cases, several issues remain to be addressed. Progressing that work and continuing to engage with the review panel will be a priority in the period ahead.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

Does the Minister agree that the exemption of teachers from the Fair Employment and Treatment Order is archaic? Will the Executive Office bring forward legislation to repeal the exemption of teachers from legal protection in cases of employment discrimination on the grounds of religious belief and political opinion?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

The Member will be aware that article 71 has been enshrined in legislation with a view to effectively providing for lawful discrimination in the employment of teachers in both the controlled and maintained sectors. TEO has responsibility for bringing forward the relevant legislation for amendment, but, clearly, the Department of Education would have significant input and opinion on what those kinds of amendments could or should look like in the future. I can advise the Member that a meeting is scheduled for next week, where officials from TEO will engage with officials from the Department of Education to take forward that discussion.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

6. Mr Gildernew asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the appointment of a Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse. (AQO 744/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The selection process for the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse was launched in June, with interviews taking place in mid-August. Those candidates assessed as appointable by the selection panel gave a presentation to the deputy First Minister and me on 9 September. We are in the final stages of the appointment process and, once the requisite pre-appointment checks are completed, the deputy First Minister and I will make a formal announcement regarding the commissioner's appointment.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Does the Minister agree that the appointment of the new commissioner presents a renewed opportunity to progress all the Hart recommendations, particularly with a focus on the apology?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Member for his supplementary. I remind Members that the Hart report recommended that those who were responsible for each of the institutions investigated by the inquiry, where it found systematic failings, should make a public apology as a wholehearted and unconditional recognition of the failures of the past. That is very much something that the new commissioner will take forward, as well as the memorial that we want to see progressed. Obviously, the commissioner will need to do that in conjunction with the victims and survivors to make sure that it is an appropriate apology and memorial. That is something that the new commissioner should take on very quickly.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

Minister, I have heard you mention several times in the Chamber how you will work once the new commissioner is in place. It is 45 months since the Hart recommendations were made. What is preventing you and the deputy First Minister from making a joint apology in the Chamber?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I think that it is important that all the institutions that have been named in that report should make the appropriate apology. It is one thing for me to stand and make the apology, but the victims and survivors will want to hear it directly from the institutions involved, and that is why we have someone to work with the victims and survivors. I accept that, whilst the interim advocate has been employed in some of that business, there have been some difficulties around that. We wish that it were otherwise but that is where we are at present. However, I am hopeful that we will have the new commissioner in place very shortly. We are in the midst now of pre-security checks and all those sorts of things so that we can take the matter forward, and that they can deal with it very quickly.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I congratulate the Department on coming to the end of the process of appointing somebody. Does the First Minister not think that the House deserved a verbal update today about the appointment of the head of the Civil Service, rather than us having to find out most of the information from the press?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member is aware — at least, I hope that he is aware — a written statement was placed with the Office of the Speaker over the weekend because we knew that this was a matter of some note. Therefore, that written statement is available to all.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

On the payment of compensation to the innocent victims and their families, what progress has been made in recovering some funding from the clerical orders and other institutions that ran these deplorable homes?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The cost estimates for financial redress range from £149 million, at the lower end, to £402 million, as a central estimate, up to £668 million, at the upper end. Contributions from the institutions, which I have already referenced, would help to defray some of those costs. A potential meeting was discussed with the two archbishops — the archbishop from the Church of Ireland and the archbishop from the Roman Catholic Church. We will shortly write to both archbishops and to the institutions about holding a round-table meeting to emphasise the seriousness of these negotiations, the urgency of making progress and to agree on principles that would govern those negotiations.

It is a moral imperative, and it would be warmly welcomed by the victims and survivors if the institutions stepped up in that way.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That ends the period for listed questions. We now move to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

T1. Mr Dunne asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the First Minister can give an assurance that she will follow up with the responsible authorities, including the Justice Minister, the background to the protest that was held at the Maze prison at the weekend, which was, as he understands, facilitated within the grounds of the prison, which is deplorable and unacceptable. (AQT 421/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Justice Minister alerted her Executive colleagues to the fact that the protest was taking place at the weekend. However, I note what the Member has said in relation to where the protest took place, and we will certainly look for an update from the Minister on that.

Gordon Dunne (DUP, North Down)

Will the First Minister give us an assurance that this will not recur? I was in the Justice Committee when the matter was raised by the Chairman with the Chief Constable. He made it clear that such a protest was not welcome in the area and that the Chief Constable should take some action relating to it. We are extremely disappointed at the outcome.

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I am sure that the Policing Board will address the matter in due course. Operational decisions by the Chief Constable should be reported there, as he is accountable to the Policing Board. However, I will take up the matter of where the protest took place with the Justice Minister.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

T2. Mr T Buchanan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they have any plans for discussions with the US envoy, Mick Mulvaney, during his visit to Northern Ireland. (AQT 422/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Mr Mulvaney has been appointed by the Trump Administration as an envoy to Northern Ireland, principally around economic development. We very much look forward to speaking to him about his ideas on economic development. The deputy First Minister and I were due to meet Mr Mulvaney early tomorrow morning, and I think that he is due to speak to the other Ministers at that stage.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

What role does she believe the US can usefully play in helping to build sustainability in Northern Ireland?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

As the Member is probably aware, the US is the biggest international investor in Northern Ireland. Many firms are US-based, and they invest in Northern Ireland because of the strengths of our people and the skills that they have. We want to discuss with Mr Mulvaney where he sees the upcoming opportunities for trade and investment in particular. I understand that he has particular interests in financial technology and cybersecurity. Those are areas in which we are strong. I look forward to having that conversation with him tomorrow, and I hope we can further drive economic investment in Northern Ireland on the basis, as I say, of our people, our skills and our ability to do business.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

T3. Ms Sugden asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how the First Minister, as Chair of the Executive Committee, is influencing the introduction of Charlotte’s law, given that she has publicly voiced her support for such legislation, albeit that it would fall within the remit of the Minister of Justice. (AQT 423/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I understand that the matter is to be debated in the House later. I have met both families who are campaigning for this. It is completely inhumane that persons who commit murder do not tell the family where the body is, to allow closure. That should be reflected in the justice system, and I hope that the House will have its say in that. I hope it backs the campaign of the two families, who, no doubt, will watch closely what we have to say on the matter.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

I thank the First Minister for her comments and share her sentiments entirely. How does the First Minister feel that, with less than two years left of this mandate, it is unlikely that we will get this onto the statute book before the next election, in 2022? Will there be another opportunity, perhaps through a legislative consent motion (LCM) on the legislation that is currently passing through the Commons?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

That is something that we should discuss. If we get the House to back the motion today, we should look at how we progress the issue, whether through this House or through an LCM for the Westminster legislation. Obviously, we would always much prefer to have our own legislation in Northern Ireland. However, if we cannot do that, an LCM for the Westminster legislation should certainly be looked at, as it is about bringing closure to a family that is grieving greatly and trying to find a way of dealing with that grief.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

T4. Mr Buckley asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether the First Minister will join with him in ensuring that the police officers who gave their all are never forgotten but always remembered for their commitment and ultimate sacrifice, especially because yesterday marked National Police Memorial Day, when we as a nation rightly paused to reflect on those gallant police officers who have lost their life while on duty throughout the United Kingdom, a day that is particularly poignant in Northern Ireland where, since 1969, over 300 officers have been killed and many thousands injured. (AQT 424/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Ordinarily, I would have attended National Police Memorial Day. It happens on a UK-wide basis, and the four nations take it in turn to host it. Of course, it was made all the more poignant yesterday by the killing on Friday of Sergeant Matt Ratana in Croydon police station. We send our sincere sympathies to his family and colleagues. Unfortunately, we in Northern Ireland know only too well what it is to have police officers murdered. Therefore, it is important that our public servants are remembered in this way. I was particularly pleased to see the family of David Johnston meet our Chief Constable. Of course, David Johnston, along with his colleague John Graham, was murdered on the streets of Lurgan in 1997, and it is important and right that we remember their sacrifice.

Jonathan Buckley (DUP, Upper Bann)

I know that the Minister knows full well that the threat to those who serve as police officers today is very real. It was brought into sharp focus, as she mentioned, by the tragic murder of Sergeant Matt Ratana of the Metropolitan Police. Would the First Minister agree that, as a matter of urgency, we must legislate for tougher sentencing for those who attack our emergency services and that we should support mandatory life sentences for those who callously murder them?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Sentencing is something that, I think, the House will come back to in the near future, because, as I understand it, the Justice Minister has a consultation in relation to sentencing matters. We in Northern Ireland have the lowest sentences for the murder of police officers. When I look south of the border, I see that the Republic of Ireland has a mandatory 40-year sentence for the capital murder of police officers, with no discretion for judges. In England, it is 30 years; in Scotland, 20. Therefore, there is a need for us to step up and look at sentencing as punishment, of course, but also as a deterrent for those who would seek to murder our public servants.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

T6. Ms Anderson asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the total amount that the Executive Office has invested in the Ebrington site in Derry. (AQT 426/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

To date, the Executive Office has invested £38 million in the regeneration of Ebrington, including £15 million from 2016, when we took over responsibility for the regeneration of the site. We have had significant investment in the site, as the Member will know, and it is important that we continue with that development. We have been able to attract private-sector investment as well, which we very much welcome. Twenty-three of the 24 site buildings have an expression of interest, an agreement of lease or a lease in place. That is good progress on the Ebrington site. We will continue to work with our partners in the north-west on the development of Ebrington.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Thank you for that information; the people of Derry will appreciate hearing it. Minister, there have been lots of engagements between the Executive Office and the council about the transfer of some of the buildings to the council, maybe on a phased basis with a view, ultimately, to it all being held by the council. Can you give us an outline of the nature of the discussions that are taking place between the Executive Office and the council?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The council is a key partner with us in Ebrington. Like us, it wants to see the site developed to its full potential. The transfer of the site is being progressed using a phased approach; that is absolutely correct. The first phase of the transfer process relates to the delivery of the maritime museum at Ebrington. The council is developing a business case for the project and has identified funders. The Executive Office is committed to providing £3·3 million towards what, I think, is an £11·5 million project. The maritime museum is a significant and exciting project for the north-west, and I hope that it will realise its potential. As I say, we are working with the council and will continue to do so.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Liz Kimmins is not in her seat. I will move to Paula Bradshaw.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

T8. Ms Bradshaw asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether consideration has been given to the StopCOVID NI app being made available in Irish, given that, following the relaunch of the NHS app last week in GB, it includes the option for Welsh. (AQT 428/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I do not think that there has consideration of that. It would be a matter for the Department of Health on the basis of need and whether people have been asking for the app in the Irish language. I am not sure if that has been the case, and there has certainly been no discussion about it.

Paula Bradshaw (Alliance, Belfast South)

In the spirit of New Decade, New Approach and the moves to take forward legislation for the Irish and other minority languages, would it not be a good idea?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The primary purpose of the StopCOVID NI app is to protect and save lives, and that has always been the focus. The app is about saving lives and livelihoods, and that has been the collective focus of everyone in the Executive, our five-party coalition. The Executive are not a duopoly, as, I think a Member said earlier. I am always amazed at how it is a duopoly when some people do not like what we do and a five-party coalition when they want to take credit. In any event, it is a five-party coalition, and people should remember that. Therefore, we will work together to save lives and protect livelihoods.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

T9. Mrs Cameron asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the enforcement group that is being headed up the junior Ministers. (AQT 429/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The enforcement group that is being headed up by the junior Ministers has been set up. It was primarily focused on the Holylands and the difficulties there with the restrictions. It is now much wider than that, and we continue to work with our partners — the PSNI, local government and everyone involved in enforcement — so that we make sure that, as well as having the restrictions in place, there is an effective enforcement regime.

Pam Cameron (DUP, South Antrim)

What reports have been received in the past week about activities in the Holylands area?

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The police presence in the Holylands has helped with some of the difficulties. I regret that a number of notices were handed down to students and, indeed, that some students were suspended. However, we must continue to work with our young people to get the message across to them. I note that some students are self-isolating in the halls of residence: we send them our best wishes and hope that it does not become a wider spread. The Executive Office is meeting both universities tomorrow to discuss some of the issues. I know there have been many scare stories about our universities and our young people, but I believe in our young people. I believe that, on the whole, our young people want to do what is right. I appeal to them to abide by the public health guidance and the restrictions.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

T10. Mr Humphrey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what economic support the Executive have been providing, particularly to the aerospace industry here, which is so vital to the city of Belfast, his constituents, people across the city and, in wider terms, Northern Ireland plc. (AQT 430/17-22)

Arlene Foster (DUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

The Executive Office very much recognises the importance of the aerospace sector. We also recognise that it is an issue not just for us in Northern Ireland but for our colleagues in Scotland and Wales. Along with our counterparts in Scotland and Wales, we took the opportunity to write to the Prime Minister in an initiative that came from Unite the Union. We were happy to do that because we believe that there needs to be more recognition of the aerospace sector. It provides us with some very well paid, highly-skilled jobs. We are fearful for the sector, and we want Whitehall and Westminster to take the initiative because it is something that needs to happen on a pan-UK basis. The aerospace sector is a huge issue and involves huge amounts of money.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Unfortunately, Mr Humphrey, time is up. I ask Members to take their ease while we change the personnel at the Table.

Oral Answers to Questions — Communities

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I remind Members that question 7 has been withdrawn. I call Trevor Lunn.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Ceist uimhir a haon. Question 1, Minister.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

1. Mr Lunn asked the Minister for Communities to outline the impact the suspension of personal independence payments (PIP) and attendance allowance face-to-face appeals has had on waiting times for hearings. (AQO 751/17-22)

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Maith thú, a Threabhair. I recognise that there is an impact on waiting times for all appeal types as a result of the pandemic. My Department has worked with the President of Appeal Tribunals to offer appellants a range of hearing type options, including face-to-face oral hearings; oral hearings using teleconference; oral hearings using video-link facilities; and a paper determination based on papers before the tribunal panel. Paper-determination cases commenced only on 6 July 2020. Oral hearings using technology options will commence with effect from today, 28 September 2020. Face-to-face oral hearings are set to recommence from mid-October at the main hearing centre. I have asked that alternative accommodation options be sought to facilitate hearings in local towns and villages.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for her answer. She will be aware that almost 40% of PIP hearings are unsuccessful at the moment. What is being done to improve that situation in terms of support for the advice sector to build skills and expertise to help people with those hearings?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I concur with the Member; the support that the independent advice sector gives people going through that process is very much valued by me and my Department. I am looking at funding for the independent advice sector, including some of the grassroots groups and even through the Appeals Service and others. I am sure that the Member agrees that it is important that we make it as easy as possible for people. When they are applying for that benefit, it is because they really need it. We need to make the process as easy and simple as possible for them.

Fra McCann (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

How does the Minister intend to address the backlog in the Appeals Service?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. There is a big backlog. Appeals Service has commenced listing a number of hearings and will continue to work with the President of Appeal Tribunals and DFC to ensure that more cases are listed for hearing. Appeals Service has obtained a number of licences for technology options so that it can run a number of hearings at the same time. It is also refreshing the hearing-type options with appellants using those technology options, and that will hopefully result in earlier hearing dates.

Pat Catney (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Lagan Valley)

Has the Minister considered making any of the jobs and benefits office services that have been available by phone over the past months permanently accessible by phone? For example, has she considered allowing the claimant commitment to be completed over the phone rather than in person?

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

Pat, I am unaware of what the process is for the long-term stuff, but I am certainly happy to look at it, because, as I said in response to Trevor Lunn, we need to make the process as easy as possible for people to access.