Northern Ireland Assembly, 2 November 2020

431 contributions from 67 members. The official report.

Assembly Business

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Since the Assembly last met, it has emerged that a lead party of government, Sinn Féin, retained COVID business money for more than six months, until it was flushed out by Stephen Nolan. When today, if at all, will the Assembly have an opportunity to ventilate and discuss that issue?

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

There are plenty of opportunities in today's Order Paper for Members to raise whatever questions that they want to raise about that matter.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

The first item of business in the Order Paper is a motion on Committee membership. As with similar motions, it will be treated as a business motion and there will be no debate.

Resolved:

That Mr Jonathan Buckley replace Mr Alex Easton as a member of the Committee for Health; and that Mr Alex Easton replace Mr Jonathan Buckley as a member of the Committee for Communities. — [Mr K Buchanan.]

Ministerial Statement

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I have received notice from the Minister for Infrastructure that she wishes to make a statement. Before I call the Minister, I remind Members that, in the light of social distancing being observed by parties, the Speaker's ruling that Members must be in the Chamber to hear a statement if they wish to ask a question has been relaxed. Members do still have to make sure that their name is on the speaking list if they wish to be called, but they can do so by rising in their place, as well as by notifying the Business Office or Speaker's Table directly. I remind Members to be concise in asking questions. This is not an opportunity for debate per se, and long interventions should not be entered into.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

In compliance with section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, I wish to make the following statement on the meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) in the transport sector, which was held on Wednesday 7 October.

The meeting was conducted via videoconference owing to current COVID restrictions. Eamon Ryan TD, Minister for Transport, Gordon Lyons MLA, as accompanying Minister, and I attended the meeting. It was a very positive meeting, and a lot of progress was made. A number of issues were discussed, including the implications of Brexit, our response to COVID-19, the latest EU funding position, our shared New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) commitments and our future work programme for the transport sector. During the meeting, I also raised the issue of the withdrawal of the Bus Éireann service between Belfast and Dublin and how we need to work together on all-island transport services.

The Council noted the work being carried out to prepare for the end of the transition period and noted the implications, arising from a North/South perspective, of Brexit. Ministers agreed to continue to cooperate on transport issues in the coming months.

We noted the ongoing liaison and communication on transport services, operations and protocols in the responses to date to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. We also agreed that, as Ministers and at official level, we will continue to cooperate and communicate on the impact of the pandemic on transport operations between Northern Ireland and Ireland and also between the island of Ireland and overseas. We also welcomed the continued cooperation between the Department for Infrastructure and the Department of Transport on EU funding-related matters. The Council noted the potential loss of some funding opportunities as a result of Brexit and the implications of that for our shared New Decade, New Approach commitments and for communities here.

The Council also noted the joint position paper and project list prepared by both jurisdictions in the context of the development of the new PEACE PLUS programme 2021-27 and the position of ongoing Connecting Europe Facility (CEF) and INTERREG projects. The Council noted the various commitments outlined in New Decade, New Approach, particularly in the area of infrastructural investment. On the A5 western transport corridor, we noted that both Governments remain committed to the A5 scheme, and, as part of New Decade, New Approach, the Irish Government reaffirmed their £75 million commitment to the project. The Council noted that, following a public inquiry into the scheme in early 2020, the Department for Infrastructure received an interim report from the commissioner on 2 September 2020. My officials are considering the issues raised and recommendations made in the report and are taking legal advice. When I have been apprised of the outcome of the review, I will consider it carefully, taking legal advice into account, before deciding on the next steps for this regionally significant project and the timing of the publication of the report.

On high-speed rail connectivity, Ministers noted that the Department of Transport and the Department for Infrastructure will further develop draft terms of reference for a proposed study of rail speeds. Importantly, we agreed that the high-speed rail feasibility study would be extended to Derry and Limerick. Minister Ryan and I took that decision because we recognise the fact that the north-west has, for too long, suffered from underinvestment, including in rail. We are both committed to addressing regional imbalance across the island by better connecting our communities and enhancing economic growth. That work and the study itself will be overseen by a high-level steering group, comprising representatives from both Departments and transport authorities from both jurisdictions.

The Council noted the commitments in New Decade, New Approach to the Narrow Water bridge and agreed that both Departments will work together to consider the next steps for progressing the scheme.

Ministers noted that the review to explore potential government support for renewed air services between Belfast and Cork and the City of Derry Airport and Dublin will be progressed by the Department of Transport, working with the Department for the Economy and the UK Department for Transport. The Council also noted the ongoing work on cross-border greenways.

Lastly, we noted that the current transport work programme dates back to 1999. We agreed that it would be useful to review it to ensure that it takes account of many developments, global and local, and of work already done and the lessons learned from that work. An updated work programme is to be considered at our next meeting, which is scheduled to take place in early 2021.

In closing, I welcome the re-establishment of our formal NSMC meetings. For too long, those important structures have not been functioning, and it is vital that we work collaboratively in the face of the all-island challenges of COVID-19, Brexit and climate change to find a way together that protects our citizens, enhances our economy, connects our communities and protects our environment. I look forward to working with my counterpart, Minister Ryan, as we continue to engage positively on how we can work collaboratively to deliver for citizens and communities across our island.

Michelle McIlveen (DUP, Strangford)

The Minister has reiterated her commitment to the A5 scheme, and I note that she received the interim report from the public inquiry on 2 September. Will she outline the issues raised and the recommendations made in that report and detail the timescale for the next steps?

Similarly, will she provide a timeline for the development of draft terms of reference for the proposed high-speed rail connectivity study and give a commitment that the decarbonisation of the transport sector will play a major part in any revised work programme?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Chairperson for her question. The A5 report, which has been submitted to my Department, contains a number of issues that my officials are having to review and seek legal advice on. I have asked them to make recommendations in a detailed submission to me. As soon as they do that, I will give very careful consideration to the publication of the report and the next steps.

My officials, along with officials from the Department of Transport, are working to finalise the details of the high-speed rail feasibility study. We expect that it will take 12 months to complete. As I have said many times in, and outside, the House, I am committed to tackling the climate emergency. Transport is the second-highest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions here, so the decarbonisation of public transport has a very important role to play as we work to tackle the climate crisis.

Cathal Boylan (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

Cuirim fáilte roimh ráiteas an Aire. I thank the Minister for her statement, and I welcome it. I would like her to expand a little on the conversations that she had with Minister Ryan on environmental and green issues.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. We spoke about the importance of greenways and the need to work collaboratively on them, and we talked about the need to ensure that we collaborate on the transport network. As I said, I raised the issue of the withdrawal of Bus Éireann services and the importance of ensuring that we have connectivity across our island and a public transport network to reduce people's reliance on cars. We also talked about the importance of collaboration in our response to COVID-19. While it was a transport sectoral meeting, inevitably the issue of the environment and the climate emergency ran through a number of the discussions.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I am sure that COVID-19 also played a part in the discussions. What agreements on collaborative North/South working has she been able to come to with her counterpart in the South to help to protect our communities and to defeat COVID-19?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. The truth is that COVID-19 does not respect boundaries and that we are all at risk of spreading or contracting the virus. We must all do all that we can to get through the pandemic safely. All aspects of our lives and our services have been affected, and transport is no different. Public transport in the North has been severely impacted by the pandemic: patronage is currently at about 46% of 2019 levels. Translink has been implementing a range of public health measures on its vehicles, including enhanced cleaning, limiting rear-facing seats, a no-change policy for cash and a requirement for passengers to wear face coverings. Recent surveys indicate that compliance with the use of face coverings is about 86%.

Minister Ryan and I agreed at the NSMC meeting that it is vital that we keep the lines of communication open as we both deal with the relevant COVID-19 restrictions. Our officials will continue to cooperate and communicate on the impact of the pandemic on transport operations across the island.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, you talked about the Irish Government's reaffirmation of their £75 million commitment to the A5 western transport corridor project: surely, that was meant to be £400 million at one stage.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. The A5 is a commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach', and the Irish Government have reaffirmed their commitment to provide £75 million of funding. I also noted and wholeheartedly welcomed the Taoiseach's announcement that the shared island unit will set up a fund of €500 million to build a shared future and the fact that it has been clearly set out that infrastructure, North and South, will be a key component of that going forward. I am very much committed to working with my ministerial counterpart and with Governments across these islands to ensure that we get the investment that we need in our infrastructure.

Andrew Muir (Alliance, North Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement. The Minister will be aware that the transition period will come to an end very soon. The clock is ticking. During the meeting, what assessment was made of the potential impact on transport North and South of not reaching a deal?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. He has raised a critical issue. The British Government's decision to leave the European Union will have a profound effect on the way we live our lives and go about our business on the island of Ireland. I have serious concerns that movement away from the common standards, practices and regulations that our transport operators have become accustomed to will have a detrimental impact in areas such as international haulage access and cross-border public transport, particularly if Northern Ireland-based operators are in the position of trying to align with two separate sets of standards or regulations in order to conduct cross-border business.

My Department continues to work collaboratively across these islands to make the case to protect our interests, but we absolutely need to see an agreement between the British Government and the European Union on a future relationship that allows us to maintain regulatory alignment and the free flow of people and goods across the island. I and my officials will continue to engage with the transport sector here and to press urgently for the clarity and answers that it needs.

David Hilditch (DUP, East Antrim)

I welcome the statement from the Minister this morning. From the discussions on high-speed rail connectivity, it has been indicated that a high-level steering group will be established, comprised of departmental and maybe transport authority officials. I am concerned by the hames that is being made of a similar scheme across the water. Can the Minister guarantee that the steering group will have a very high level of expertise?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. It is ambitious to seek a spine of connectivity on our island for high-speed rail. It is visionary and ambitious, and it needs to be worked through at a high strategic level to make sure that we see it right through to delivery and operation. I assure the Member that we have the ambition and the vision and that it will be led at a very high strategic level at the feasibility study stage.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, you have already mentioned Brexit-related issues and your commitment to continuing to work with your counterpart in the South on transport issues, and the Member who spoke previously touched on that as well. Can you advise the House whether there has been any indication that drivers from the North will need a green card to travel South?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

The Member has raised an important issue. I believe that there should be no disruption for drivers travelling across the island. We continue to engage with a range of stakeholders to make the case and ensure that we do what we can, given our limited role, to ensure that that disruption does not happen.

Keith Buchanan (DUP, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for her statement. She indicated that the Department would do a feasibility study on the North/South high-speed rail line, and the Narrow Water bridge was mentioned in her statement. Can the Minister give us a high-level budget figure for the rail link? Will she carry out a feasibility study on a bridge to link with our neighbours to the east in Scotland? Will she give that more consideration than she has in the past?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The purpose of the feasibility study will be to identify a range of factors to ensure the delivery of the project, one of which, obviously, is the funding required. I commit to continuing to update the House as that work progresses.

I have always said that I have absolutely no difficulty with connectivity; I see the merit in having connectivity at a physical level and in terms of relationships. I have said on a number of occasions that one of the positive things that I have experienced from the COVID situation is the engagement with my counterparts across these islands and the learning that we have shared. We are committed to continuing that engagement.

I think that the Member refers indirectly to the bridge between Northern Ireland and Scotland. Connectivity across this island is really important. My view is that the £20 billion for one bridge could be better spent on a range of connectivity projects that would deliver much more for our citizens, communities and businesses in Northern Ireland.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, as you will be aware, there was a debate in the Chamber about north-west rail connectivity. You talked in the statement about high-speed rail and the loss of European funding. Do you envisage having further conversations with Minister Ryan about the western arc to ensure that Derry, Letterkenny and Sligo are connected? You could hear from the debate in the Chamber that there was cross-party support for that.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. She will be aware of my commitment to and ambition for rail across our island. She will be aware that I have ring-fenced funding to ensure that we get phase 3 back on track with the feasibility study. I have made it clear that that work needs to be completed at pace. I am also working with Minister Ryan to ensure that Derry and the north-west will be included in the high-speed rail feasibility study. That is a commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach', and it was absolutely right that we extended it. I have welcomed the €500 million fund that has been set up for infrastructure projects, and I am happy to have further engagement with Minister Ryan to see what more we can do to enhance our rail offering across the island.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Thanks to the Minister for the statement. It is worth saying that the meeting and what has come from it represent the biggest shift forward in all-island infrastructure in several decades.

I will ask about Brexit. She has touched on it before, but one of the specific concerns is around the professional qualifications of train drivers, bus drivers and the like in relation to cross-border transport. If no deal looks likely in the weeks to come, will there be a reconvened NSMC or further discussions and engagement with her Southern counterpart to prepare for those unfortunate circumstances?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am sensitive to the fact that discussions between the negotiating teams are ongoing and that the outcome will be determined by the British Government and the European Union. My Department continues to work closely with Department for Transport (DfT) counterparts in London to ensure that Northern Ireland issues regarding cross-border services are kept to the fore during UK-EU withdrawal negotiations. Any outcome that places a limit on the number of hauliers, for example, allowed to travel South to transport and receive goods, such as the need for a European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) permit, will have the potential for serious supply chain disruption and detrimental economic impacts on the North. In addition, should bus operators not be in a position to offer regular or special regular services to the South or to provide cabotage services, that will have a negative impact on consumer choice and free movement between North and South.

With regard to cross-border rail, I am hopeful that the arrangements that have been put in place will mean little or no disruption for passengers and that longer-term solutions to our mutual benefit can be put in place. I agree with the Member: the purposes of the NSMC structures are set out in the Good Friday Agreement, and that would be a useful and beneficial avenue through which to explore some of the issues to ensure that we are absolutely prepared or prepared as best we can be, while being mindful that we are not a member state involved in the negotiations.

John Stewart (UUP, East Antrim)

I thank the Minister for her statement. One of the key transport commitments in 'New Decade, New Approach' was the York Street interchange. There is no doubt that that will have a positive impact on commuters and freight not just in Northern Ireland but cross-border. Was there any discussion around that, such as assistance with that project or an indicative time frame for when we might see that project delivered?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that the York Street interchange is a commitment. I took the decision to have a short, sharp external review to ensure that the project could progress in the right way in terms of being future-proofed. That work is ongoing, and the report is being carried out. I hope to be in receipt of the report on the review by the end of November. I am then keen to do what I can to move the project forward, subject, as always when it comes to infrastructure projects, to the funding being made available.

Tom Buchanan (DUP, West Tyrone)

Minister, I note a number of important projects in your statement but none more so than the A5, which has been rumbling on for more years than I wish to remember. You will know of the importance of the A5 project for commuters in the west. Can you indicate when the project will commence on the ground? Have you any idea of what the cost will now be? Do you know whether the scheme will be delivered as a total project or in phases?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. He is right to highlight the importance of the A5. It is a commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach', and it is a strategic project in tackling regional imbalance and connecting communities in the area that the Member represents. It is also a hugely important project for road safety.

As I said, my officials have been given a copy of the report. They are considering the issues that have been raised, and we are seeking legal advice. As soon as I receive that submission, I will make a decision on the next steps, including the timing of the publication of the report.

I assure the Member that I understand the frustration that the project has been a long time coming. It will be progressed as soon as we can complete all the required statutory processes. Obviously, it will be subject to funding, but I have given a commitment to it. It will be progressed as quickly as we can do it in line with the satisfactory completion of all the statutory processes.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

I note that the Minister's statement refers to the fact that she raised the issue of the withdrawal of the Bus Éireann Dublin to Belfast route: can we expect a statement in the near future saying that that route will be restored? Does the Minister agree that that also puts greater emphasis on the need for the new high-speed link between Belfast and Dublin to be used to boost the economies not only of Belfast and Dublin but of the towns along that route, such as Lurgan, Portadown and Craigavon?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. I am committed to securing island-wide services between Belfast and Dublin and, indeed, across the island. I raised the matter with Minister Ryan at the NSMC transport meeting. My Department will continue to work to provide services for our communities, North and South, and will work with Translink to minimise the disruption to passengers along the route. You will know that the Bus Éireann route is a commercial one, and Bus Éireann took the decision that it did. I am committed to ensuring that we do not reduce our services, so I am examining, subject to funding, what Translink can do there because we currently provide half of the services.

I agree with you: our cities are our economic driver, but we must realise that that should not be at the expense of our towns and cities along the way. I have given a commitment to tackling regional imbalance, and I am keen that we continue to do what we can to ensure that towns and villages across the North can benefit.

Trevor Clarke (DUP, South Antrim)

Minister, in response to my party colleague who asked you about the high-speed railway and the lessons from England, you said that it was at a very high level. Given previous difficulties in your Department, where, on the railway from Coleraine to Londonderry, they could not even get the platform size right, how confident are you that you have the expertise in your Department to move this project forward?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. We are working at cross-departmental level across the island. The engagement will be at a high level, as you would expect for a feasibility study of this nature. I can give you a commitment that I have no intention of presiding over a farce, and I am committed to doing what I can to ensure that we get the right feasibility study and terms of reference and that we can quickly move and progress it to delivery.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her statement. Can she provide us with a more detailed update on her discussions regarding Narrow Water bridge? Will she give us any indication of when we can expect to see construction of that vital project?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. Consideration of options for a bridge at Narrow Water included engagement with key stakeholders. Most recently, in September I met representatives from the Narrow Water Bridge Community Network and local political representatives. Officials from my Department also recently updated an outline economic appraisal of options for the future development of Narrow Water bridge in collaboration with the Department of Transport. I am committed to progressing the project and will work with partners in the local community and across this island to deliver the progress that is now needed on that important transformative all-island project. That includes a meeting that I have scheduled with both local councils so that they are able to feed into the project and have their views taken on board.

I also welcome the shared vision and commitment of An Taoiseach and the Irish Government to build a new shared island that is better connected and served by all-island infrastructure through projects such as the Narrow Water bridge.

Cara Hunter (Social Democratic and Labour Party, East Londonderry)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I welcome the positive progress that was made at the NSMC on transport. It is very much welcome that we can see the continued collaboration between the two Ministers North and South on all-island rail, which is a very important issue for my constituency of East Derry. With the extension of the 'NDNA' commitment to high-speed rail now extending to the north-west, will the Minister advise us on the next steps of this transformative project?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question. As she knows, I was keen to see the extension of our commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach' to include the north-west in the feasibility study for high-speed rail. In order to help to address regional imbalance and to better connect our communities, this is a very important project, particularly for opening up our travel corridor on this island.

I worked closely with Minister Ryan to see the study extended, and our officials are now working to finalise the terms of reference before proceeding to procurement. Minister Ryan and I have a shared desire to enhance rail connectivity across our island, and we recognise the benefits of this cleaner, greener, more sustainable mode of transport and are committed to working together to take this project forward in the shortest possible time frame.

Roy Beggs (UUP, East Antrim)

In her statement, the Minister indicated that there was discussion about the implications for transport North/South and, indeed, east-west. There is considerable concern from hauliers, distributors and the Food and Drink Association in particular about the implications of Brexit and the arrangements in the protocol on the supply of products to our supermarket shelves. My question to the Minister is this: has there been recognition in the Republic of Ireland of the damaging implication that overly bureaucratic procedures will have for supplies to our supermarket shelves? The impact of that may be reciprocated on suppliers in the Republic of Ireland moving goods into GB. Will both parties seek pragmatic solutions that are light-touch and that enable goods to move easily east-west and west-east?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. It is apparent that Brexit and the way that it is being handled are completely damaging. I have been meeting people in the haulage sector to hear their concerns. They are hugely anxious and concerned about the absence of any clarity or detail from the British Government and the European Union on what they need to do to prepare for the end of the transition period. What absolutely needs to happen is full implementation of the protocol.

The Member is right to point out food security. We were very conscious of it, and we remain so in our response to COVID. I assure him that I will continue to work, pragmatically and in solution-finding mode, with anyone and everyone, because I recognise the huge concern and anxiety that is being caused to hauliers, people in retail and, increasingly, to consumers, as it starts to become apparent that the consequences of Brexit will be damaging for all of us.

Justin McNulty (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Newry and Armagh)

The Minister may remember that, in simpler times, on a beautiful summer's evening, we travelled from Newry along the canal, past the Victoria Lock, towards Slieve Foy and Carlingford lough, to meet our partners in Fianna Fáil. Then, Brexit was our only major concern; now, things are different.

I welcome the inclusion of greenways in the Minister's statement. It is clear that the Minister is seeking to deliver a change in direction within her Department and, by extension, in the way we travel and connect across our islands. Can the Minister provide any further information on the work to deliver greenways North and South, specifically in relation to the Albert Basin to Victoria Lock greenway and the Middletown to Smithborough greenway? She has already agreed to connect the end of that greenway to Middletown village.

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The Member is correct: I am trying to work to change the culture within my Department, and within our society, towards refocusing how we travel and connect communities. I want to see real change where we have cleaner and greener spaces and where active travel is an intrinsic part of society. I want to see that across the island of Ireland. That is a passion that Minister Ryan shares.

In September, I announced £2·8 million of funding for six greenway projects across Northern Ireland. I hope to be in a position to provide more support, and I encourage councils to progress the projects to the point where the Department can support their construction. Three cross-border greenway projects — north-west greenways, the Ulster canal greenway and the Carlingford lough greenway — are being funded under the INTERREG programme. I am committed to working closely with my counterparts in the South to make progress on those important projects.

Sinéad Bradley (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her elaboration on the work around the Narrow Water bridge, in particular, and for her renewed and ongoing commitment to that critical project. The Minister constantly references the importance of enhancing our economy. Does she share my view that we need to have projects that are ready to be built and ready to go as quickly as possible, particularly at this time? Does she agree that Narrow Water bridge is a significant project that will bring much-needed employment to the area? Will she commit to speaking to the Minister of Finance and his counterparts across this island to get that project ready for delivery?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for her question and agree that Narrow Water bridge is a transformative project. It will enhance the local economy, be a huge boost to tourism — locally, but also regionally — and bring important environmental benefits. In the face of Brexit, it is particularly poignant in terms of physically connecting communities. It is a project that I believe in, and I want to work hard to try to progress it. I am happy to have conversations with anyone to draw down funding. It is no secret in the House that the Department for Infrastructure often struggles to secure funding, but I am willing to talk to anybody so that we can bring a cocktail of funding to the table to ensure that we see the bridge being built and the multiple benefits that it will bring.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

The Minister is doing much work on North/South infrastructural projects. She has a great enthusiasm for that and has held many ministerial meetings in connection with that. How many times has she met her Scottish counterpart to discuss the much-needed improvements on the A75 and A77, which are such vital links for our economy?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. The focus is on North/South projects and North/South engagement because I am making a statement on the NSMC. I can assure the Member that I have regular engagement with my counterparts across these islands. I have met Robin Walker on a number of occasions, and I have met the Secretary of State. I have also had several engagements with Grant Shapps and, as the Member asked about, I have had several teleconferences with Michael Matheson. The Member is right to point out the A75. It is an important project, and my officials have been engaging on it with their counterparts in Scotland. We understand that that is very much at the centre of Scotland's transport plan. Those conversations are ongoing.

Gerry Carroll (People Before Profit Alliance, Belfast West)

I thank the Minister for her statement. I want to follow on from Mr O'Dowd's point about the suspension of Bus Éireann's Belfast to Dublin service. I am concerned that COVID is being used as an excuse to suspend those services, especially as it is being called "indefinite", no time has been given for when the services will resume and, obviously, previous Southern Governments' concerning propensity for stopping and suspending bus routes is very concerning. I know that she said that she raised the issue in the meeting, but does the Minister have any concern that, for all the Taoiseach's talk of a shared island, shared transport services do not seem to be on the Government's agenda?

Nichola Mallon (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast North)

I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that Bus Éireann is a commercial service, so it was a commercial decision that the company took. With Translink, however, we have a publicly owned public transport network, which is something that we should be very proud of. Although, given the restrictions, we temporarily stalled services at the height of the pandemic, I hope that the Member recognises that we have worked hard to ensure the protection of services on our public transport network. I will continue to work with Minister Ryan, Translink and anyone else to ensure that we continue not just to protect our services, routes and public-sector jobs but to recognise that, when it comes to public transport, ours should be not just a protectionist policy but one of enhancement and improvement, recognising that it is a critical public service that is essential to tackling the climate emergency.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That concludes questions on the statement. I ask Members to take their ease while we reconfigure the Chamber for the next item of business.

(Mr Principal Deputy Speaker [Mr Stalford] in the Chair)

Executive Committee Business

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the Minister of Finance, Mr Conor Murphy, to move the Consideration Stage of the Budget (No. 3) Bill.

Moved. — [Mr Murphy (The Minister of Finance).]

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

No amendments have been tabled to the Bill. I propose therefore, by leave of the Assembly, to group the nine clauses of the Bill for the Question on stand part, followed by the five schedules and the long title. I trust that no Member objects.

Clauses 1 to 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to.

Long title agreed to.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

That concludes the Consideration Stage of the Budget (No. 3) Bill. The Bill stands referred to Mr Speaker.

The next item in the Order Paper is the legislative consent motion for the Pension Schemes Bill. I ask Members to take their ease until the Minister arrives.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

I call the Minister for Communities to move the legislative consent motion for the Pension Schemes Bill.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I beg to move

That this Assembly agrees, in line with section 87 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, the principle of the extension to Northern Ireland of the provisions of the Pension Schemes Bill dealing with collective money purchase benefits, the Pensions Regulator, pensions dashboards and further provision relating to pension schemes as contained in Part 2 and clauses 117, 120 and 129 of, and schedules 4 to 6, 8, 9 and 11 to, the Bill that was introduced in the House of Commons on 16 July 2020.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Clear as mud. The Business Committee has agreed that there should be no time limit on the debate. I ask the Minister to open the debate.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

As Members will recall from the debate on the original legislative consent motion, the Westminster Pension Schemes Bill establishes collective money purchase schemes where contributions are pooled and invested to deliver an aspired benefit level. The Bill strengthens protection for scheme members, enhances the powers of the Pensions Regulator and introduces stronger sanctions for those who wilfully or recklessly harm their pension schemes, including a maximum seven-year prison sentence and a civil penalty of up to £1 million. It increases transparency about individuals' pension savings by introducing pensions dashboards and provisions to tackle pensions scams.

The original legislative consent motion for the Bill, as introduced in the House of Lords, was approved by the Assembly on 1 June 2020. This additional legislative consent motion is required to cover amendments made to the Bill since its introduction. The amendments introduced a new policy regarding climate-related financial disclosures, which is outside the scope of the original motion. The new policy seeks to secure effective governance and disclosure of the climate change risks that schemes face, with the long-term objective of protecting members' benefits against the risk of climate change and the risks and opportunities associated with the transition to a lower-carbon economy.

In practical terms, that will allow the Government to mandate the recommendations of the international task force on climate-related financial disclosures, the most widely used framework against which institutional investors report and assess exposure to the financial risk of climate change.

The climate-related financial disclosures amendments cover three areas: governance requirements, publication requirements, and the powers of the Pensions Regulator in the case of non-compliance. The amendments also require schemes to have regard to the official guidance on complying with effective governance and publication requirements. The amendments build on regulations that are already in place and which require occupational pension schemes to take account of climate change in their investment practices. Occupational pension schemes with 100 or more members are already required to explain how they take account of climate change in their investment strategies. Under the regulations from last month, all schemes are required to report publicly how they do so, as transparency is key to informed decisions and informed change.

The Pensions Climate Risk Industry Group, which was convened to provide guidance for trustees of pension schemes on integrated climate-related risk assessment and management into decision-making and reporting, has highlighted that all pension schemes face climate-related risks, irrespective of the way they invest or the estimated duration of liabilities. Many schemes are also supported by employers or sponsors whose financial positions and prospects are dependent on current and future developments in relation to climate change.

The effect of these amendments on private pensions policy is to strengthen the requirements placed on trustees and managers of occupational pension schemes to include proper climate risk management in their governance processes and publish that information so that it is available to all. This builds on the expectation that occupational pension schemes and other large asset owners disclose in line with the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosure recommendations, as set out in the 2019 green finance strategy.

Climate change is expected to have significant impact on pension schemes assets and returns for savers, both through the risks of a warmer planet and the transition to a lower-carbon economy. Therefore, it is only right that long-term investors such as trustees are informed and empowered to take action to address those risks and protect the retirement savings of scheme members. These measures aim to ensure that pensions and schemes are in a good position to play a role in the change to a sustainable low-carbon economy.

On 2 October, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) outlined a time frame to align its climate risk reporting requirements with those flowing from the Pension Schemes Bill. This move will ensure that asset managers and FCA-regulated pension schemes are required to report their assets' climate risks in line with recommendations from the Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosure.

These provisions are largely beneficial for scheme members. The new policy seeks to strengthen the requirements placed on trustees and managers of occupational pension schemes to include proper climate risk management in their governance processes and publish that information so that it is available to all.

Since the Bill was introduced, other amendments have been made to add further detail to the policies that are already in the Bill. In summary, the amendments are as follows. The first is a charge cap for collective defined contribution schemes, which are commonly called CDC schemes. This amendment ensures that the regulation-making powers in the Pensions Act (NI) 2015 regarding charge caps apply to CDC schemes so that a similar charge cap can be implemented in CDC schemes. The existing charge cap, set in the regulations at 0·75%, provides an important protection for members in the default arrangements of money purchase schemes used for automatic enrolment.

There are transfer rights amendments that are designed to protect scheme members from targeting by criminals and fraudsters. For example, they will clarify, in prescribed circumstances, that the trustees or managers of a scheme are not required to carry out a person's request to transfer pension benefits to a different scheme unless they are satisfied that the person concerned has obtained prescribed guidance or information on pension transfers. This is with a view to limiting pension scams.

There is a pensions dashboard amendment that will make it clear that there will be a public service pensions dashboard as well as a commercial dashboard. The intention has always been to provide a public service pensions dashboard through the Money and Pensions Service. The amendment now makes that explicit in the Bill.

Amendments have also been made regarding the use of delegated powers in relation to collective money purchase benefits. The delegated powers for the authorisation criteria and subordinate legislation will now be confirmatory. The delegated power for the transfer rights will also be subject to the confirmatory procedure. This is in line with the corresponding powers relating to British legislation, which will be subject to the affirmative procedure.

An amendment has also been made to clarify an existing power allowing for the modification of statutory provisions to make it clear which provisions may be amended and for which purposes.

Overall, the Bill aims to help people plan for the future and to protect people's pensions by giving the Pensions Regulator greater powers to tackle irresponsible management of pension schemes, including actions taken by employers that could compromise the viability of the pension scheme. I very much support the principle that members' interests should be at the core of everything that we do.

The Assembly has already agreed the principle that the Bill should contain provision for here. In view of that, it is sensible that the amendment should also apply here, as many schemes operating here are based in Britain, and it is desirable that the same regulatory framework is in place here to facilitate compliance, planning and enforcement.

Importantly, under the Bill, the power to make subordinate legislation and to commence provisions relating to devolved matters will vest in the Department for Communities. Likewise, the powers of control and subordinate legislation will rest with us here.

The Bill ensures that the pension system is fit for purpose for the future by strengthening the systems and introducing important safeguards and deterrents against those who might seek to avoid their responsibilities.

The use of the legislative consent motion procedure in this case should not be seen as a precedent or an indication of how I intend to proceed in the future in this area. I am very much aware of the importance of the Assembly's role when considering legislation and, in particular, the value of the Committee's scrutiny role.

It is very important that the provisions in the Bill are enacted in Britain and here at the same time because it provides us with legal certainty for schemes and employers to allow preparatory work, for example, for the introduction of climate-related financial disclosures to proceed.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Thank you, Minister. Before I call the first Member to speak, I advise Members that I have quite a short list here, but there are quite a lot of Members in the Chamber, so if anyone wishes to speak in the debate, please rise in your place to let me know.

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

The Committee thanks the Minister for bringing this second legislative consent motion on the Westminster Pension Schemes Bill. The Westminster Pension Schemes Bill started in the House of Lords on 7 January 2020. It is now at Committee Stage in the House of Commons, and the Bill Committee is expected to report on 5 November.

As a short aside, I will take this opportunity to remind the House that the Committee for Communities is currently considering the Pension Schemes Bill for Northern Ireland and will start its formal clause-by-clause scrutiny this very week. That Bill is to mirror the provisions of a different Westminster Bill — the Pension Schemes Act 2017 — which introduced, amongst other things, a new regulatory framework for master trusts workplace pension schemes that can be used by multiple unrelated employers.

Planning and preparation for retirement is very important for all of us and spent pension schemes are often not given the attention that they deserve by many of us. As I reminded the House on 1 June, when we debated the first LCM related to the Westminster Bill, although pensions are a devolved matter, to all intents and purposes, in the UK, there is essentially one system of pensions that includes numerous pension schemes in Northern Ireland. Furthermore, the Pensions Regulator, the Pensions Ombudsman and the Pension Protection Fund all operate UK-wide.

The Westminster Bill establishes collective money purchase schemes. In such a scheme, both the employer and employee contribute to a collective fund from which the employee draws an income at retirement. The Bill also strengthens protections for scheme members by enhancing the powers of the Pensions Regulator and introducing stronger civil and criminal sanctions. It also increases transparency about pensions savings by introducing digital interfaces for individuals called pensions dashboards and introduces provisions to help to tackle pension scams.

The Committee is pleased to see that, central to the Bill, is the principle of consumer protection and enabling people to plan better for their pensions and that the Bill has been broadly welcomed by unions, the pensions industry and political parties.

This further LCM relating to the Westminster Pension Schemes Bill is now needed to ensure that Northern Ireland provisions remain in the Westminster Bill following amendments to it. Members will have read the Committee's report published on 22 October 2020 on the second legislative consent memorandum, but, just in case they have not, I will provide some background and update Members.

The Committee published a report on the first legislative consent memorandum on 29 April 2020. At that time, members were reassured that the Department would brief the Committee on any significant policy changes to the Bill as a result of amendments at Westminster. Such amendments occurred, and the Committee was then briefed by departmental officials at its meeting on 15 October 2020 on such a policy change, other amendments and on the need for the further LCM. The Committee welcomed the main amendments, which are to do with climate-related financial disclosures, with the aim being to secure effective governance and disclosure of the risks facing pension schemes and of the risks and opportunities associated with the transition to a lower-carbon economy.

The Committee also welcomed the other amendments and was content that they added further detail on policies already in the Bill, including, as the Minister stated, setting a charge cap for collective defined contribution schemes, which is an important protection for members of such schemes. On transfer rights amendments, one aims to safeguard members of unfunded public-sector schemes from being targeted by criminals and fraudsters, and another aims to limit pension scams. There is an enhancement to the pensions dashboard that ensures that there will be public service pension dashboards as well as commercial dashboards

I remind the House that the Committee has previously noted its general uneasiness with the use of LCMs in principle rather than bespoke Assembly legislation. It is not the way that we would prefer to deal with legislation, but we recognise that it is necessary in this instance. We welcome the inquiry by the Committee on Procedures on the use of LCMs, and the Committee for Communities has already issued a response.

That said, the Committee recognises that the amendments are generally seen as a positive measure to help people to plan for the future and to protect people's pensions. The Committee welcomes the fact that further details on the provisions will be set out in subordinate legislation by the Department for Communities and made subject to Assembly control. The Committee accepts that it is advantageous that any changes to the regulation of pensions are made across all jurisdictions at the same time to ensure compliance and enforcement. We acknowledge that the Bill will strengthen the pension system by introducing certain safeguards and enhanced sanctions. For those reasons, the Committee is supportive of the second legislative consent motion related to the Westminster Pension Schemes Bill. Therefore, on behalf of the Committee, I support the motion.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

The Committee has been scrutinising the Pension Schemes Bill for a number of months, and I thank the research team and all those who provided briefings to the Committee. I am broadly content that the amendments fit within the aims of the original Bill, which is to provide additional protections, safeguards and options for members of the schemes. The amendments, for the most part, provide further detail and clarity on what is already included. The climate change financial disclosures element is the new policy inclusion, and it is the element that has necessitated the additional LCM. The Minister and the Committee Chair have given a clear summary of what that will mean in practical terms. Therefore, it makes sense, given the necessary focus on climate change on the impact that it is likely to have on many aspects of our lives, that any climate-related risks are properly assessed and disclosed in order to minimise the risk to people's pensions. I support the LCM and look forward to discussing the remaining aspects of the Pension Schemes Bill in Committee.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

As I said in June, when we passed the first legislative consent motion related to the Pension Schemes Bill — I know that the Minister will concur — LCMs should be a last resort, particularly when we are dealing with the current Westminster Government. No matter how laudable the aims of a Bill, the Assembly should not surrender its powers or reduce scrutiny lightly. LCMs and accelerated passage are suboptimal routes for us to take. I take this opportunity, as I take every opportunity, to reiterate to the Minister that we have the time to ensure that we do not have to cut corners when it comes to scrutinising the upcoming welfare mitigation legislation.

We recognise the time pressures that there are with the Bill as a result of the three-year absence, and that puts pension scheme members here at a disadvantage to those in Britain. We supported the LCM in June on the basis of the Communities Minister's assurance that any changes to the Bill as it made its passage through the House of Lords to the Commons would be brought here for scrutiny and approval; hence the motion that is before us. That assurance was sought because of the Committee's nervousness about potential changes to the Bill that we would not wish to support.

The UK Government have already indicated their intention to secure support to remove the Lords amendment on delaying the introduction of commercial pension dashboards. In the light of the potential changes to the Bill in the Commons Committee tomorrow and on Thursday and when it returns to the Floor of the Commons, can the Minister reiterate that no changes will be extended to Northern Ireland without the Assembly's approval?

We support the changes that have been made thus far, which are before us. The Minister and the Committee Chair have already detailed them, but I highlight in particular those that relate to climate change, which help to ensure that pension schemes can adapt to a low- and — this will, hopefully, be in the not-too-distant future — net zero-carbon economy. The new provisions aimed at strengthening protection against pension fraud and scams are similarly welcome.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

I thank the Minister for Communities for tabling the LCM. The Pension Schemes Bill extends to Northern Ireland the provisions of the GB Pension Schemes Act 2017. The extension could not proceed as intended in 2017 as this place was suspended. It is time that we ensured that people who have workplace pensions here are covered by the same protections as people elsewhere in the UK. Therefore, on behalf of the Alliance Party, I support the LCM.

Following the Pensions (No. 2) Act (Northern Ireland) 2008, it was compulsory for employers to automatically enrol eligible workers into a qualifying workplace pension. The pensions market responded, and master trusts developed. Master trusts are multi-employer pension schemes that employers pick for their staff rather than having to set up their own scheme. The reason why my party supports the LCM is that part 1 of the Bill provides authorisation for master trusts to be introduced along with the criteria that they have to meet. That means that all master trusts will have to demonstrate to the Pensions Regulator that they can meet criteria and that their trustees are fit and proper persons who can meet the criteria and act within required parameters in the event of wind-up or closure of a trust. The Pensions Regulator will have greater powers to take action where key criteria are not met. It also means that master trusts operating outside the UK will be open to employers here as long as the master trust registers in the UK and complies with that criterion and the Pensions Regulator.

Part 2 of the Bill supports a cap on early exit charges. The power to override contract terms allows the Department to make regulations that restrict charges or impose requirements on certain pension schemes. For example, if a contract between those persons currently provides for a type or level of charge, such as member-borne commission or an exit charge, that is prohibited under regulations made under paragraph 1 of schedule 18. It allows regulations to provide that the provision of a scheme will be overridden in the event of any conflict in the legislation. The Bill caps early exit charges. It does not set out what those levels will be, but it is vital for customers to know that they will be able to access pension freedoms without overly expensive barriers.

As the Minister said, the Bill requires master trusts to provide information on how money is being invested by reporting climate-related sustainable investments. That will help us as a society, as we move towards a lower-carbon economy with the ultimate goal of zero emissions.

I welcome the pensions dashboards for both the public and private sectors. After all, they are our pensions. It is not fair to ask a normal person on the street to try to find out exactly what is happening with their pension, so the dashboard is welcome.

The LCM provides openness and transparency for customers. The dashboards, as I said, will be one way to do that. It protects people's pensions by giving the Pensions Regulator more powers. It works towards a low-carbon economy. The reports that will be brought forward from each pension scheme or master trust will be welcome. As the Chair said on behalf of the Committee, while the Committee welcomes it, we would have preferred that it were not an LCM, but we are where we are. I must ask the Minister to confirm that any future amendments will be brought back to the House so that nothing slips through that would be bad for customers or exclude us from opportunities for master trusts.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

No other Member has indicated that they wish to speak in this debate, so I call the Minister to make a winding-up speech.

Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin, Belfast North)

I am really shocked at that, actually

[Laughter.]

I thank all the Members who spoke. Like everyone, I am deeply uncomfortable at having to use the LCM route. I am not taking the scrutiny of the Committee lightly. That is its role and its job, and I want to ensure that that process is not thwarted. However, I think that there is an acceptance that, if the amendments were not discussed and voted through, we would put pension holders here at a disadvantage, which we did not want. Just to be clear, if there are further amendments, they will be brought to the Committee and the Assembly. It is now abundantly clear that everyone has accepted that safeguards are provided for in the Bill, which was mentioned by those who spoke, and that people have access to what they are entitled to through dashboards in public, private and commercial pensions.

If I have missed any issue, I will write to the Committee; indeed, if the Committee wants further information, it can write to me. Without further ado, I commend the motion to the Assembly.

Question accordingly agreed to. Resolved:

That this Assembly agrees, in line with section 87 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, the principle of the extension to Northern Ireland of the provisions of the Pension Schemes Bill dealing with collective money purchase benefits, the Pensions Regulator, pensions dashboards and further provision relating to pension schemes as contained in Part 2 and clauses 117, 120 and 129 of, and schedules 4 to 6, 8, 9 and 11 to, the Bill that was introduced in the House of Commons on 16 July 2020.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The next item of business relates to the Department of Justice. We are running ahead of ourselves in terms of time, so we can take our ease for a few moments just to allow the Minister to arrive in the Chamber. Thank you.

Members, I do not know how this has happened, but the Minister for Justice is unable to be in her place. I have sought clarity and established that I have the discretion to allow us to move on and return to the item of business at a later point.

Committee Business

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I beg to move

That this Assembly takes note of the feedback to the Committee for Education's online survey into post-primary transfer testing and calls on the Minister of Education to outline contingency plans for post-primary arrangements.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

You certainly did move in order to get to your place on time.

The Business Committee has allowed two hours for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and a further 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I begin in my capacity as Chairperson of the Education Committee, in which I moved the motion on behalf of the Education Committee. The motion calls on the Assembly to take note of the findings of the Education Committee's online survey into post-primary transfer testing and on the Education Minister to outline contingency plans for post-primary transfer tests this year.

The motivation for the Education Committee survey, which was agreed by all main parties and is the focus of today's motion, is the safety, well-being and opportunity for equal education of children in Northern Ireland during a public health pandemic: a pandemic that has taken life and livelihood across Northern Ireland and caused the Northern Ireland Executive to take extraordinary approaches to almost every aspect of society. The closure of schools and significant disruption to education across Northern Ireland from March to June 2020 led to the replacement of GCSE, AS and A-level examinations with centre-assessed grading and, crucially, prevented school-based preparation for post-primary transfer testing.

At that time, the post-primary transfer tests in question were scheduled to take place about now. The first Association for Quality Education (AQE) common entrance exam should have been taking place this Saturday, in the middle of a four-week COVID-19 circuit breaker. In these extraordinary circumstances, the Education Committee engaged with the AQE and the Post Primary Transfer Consortium (PPTC) — the providers of the private tests — wrote to every selective school in Northern Ireland and consistently questioned the Education Minister on what contingency plans were being put in place for post-primary transfer this year.

The response, or lack thereof, that the Education Committee received was concerning. We therefore sought to engage more widely with parents, guardians, teachers, children and young people via the online post-primary transfer survey. The survey was unanimously agreed by DUP, Sinn Féin, SDLP, UUP and Alliance Party members of the Education Committee, with the assistance of the Assembly Engagement team. The survey was completed by over 8,500 people. Approximately 6,500 respondents were parents and guardians, about half of whom are responsible for children in P6 or P7. Around 1,800 respondents were teachers, with about half teaching P6 or P7 pupils. Disappointingly, the Education Minister refused the Committee's request for the survey to be sent to all teachers in Northern Ireland via the C2k network. About 750 respondents were children or young people, of whom three quarters indicated that they were entering P7.

I will say more about the findings of the survey when I speak in my capacity as an MLA. Some of its key feedback, however, was that a majority of the parents and teachers surveyed were very or extremely concerned about children sitting transfer tests further to a period of significant disruption.

Despite the efforts of the Education Minister to facilitate private transfer testing of P7 children this year, including drafting a ministerial direction to the Education Authority (EA) and fast-tracking enhanced application and appeals processes, the Education Committee remains concerned at the lack of any concerted scoping of alternative arrangements for the post-primary transfer of children during a pandemic that is causing significant disruption to their education and to preparation for those examinations. The Committee therefore unanimously calls on the Education Minister to outline substantive contingency plans for this academic year.

I would like to add a few comments in my capacity as an Alliance MLA. As I have already stated, the motivation for the survey, and the focus of the Assembly and the Minister of Education, must be the safety, well-being and equal educational opportunity of children. I ask the Education Minister to stop misrepresenting my integrity and advocacy on the matter as being an anti-grammar school campaign; it is not. It is unedifying and is not a serious response to a very serious matter.

There are non-selective grammar schools in Northern Ireland. My understanding is that a grammar education is an approach to education, not a system of admissions for education. It is possible to hold the opinion that academic selection is unfair and unnecessary as a system of post-primary admission and not be against academic or grammar approaches to education. Teachers can differentiate their teaching approach to different aptitudes in a school without an archaic admissions system to differentiate pupils by school. That, however, is a wider debate about academic selection that the Assembly needs to have in an open and inclusive manner. It is my profound regret that the collapse of the Executive in 2017 stopped an inquiry into post-primary transfer that was initiated by the previous Education Committee.

The motion is about how we transfer thousands of 11-year-old children this year in the midst of a global public health pandemic that has claimed tens of thousands of lives on these islands and which has disrupted almost every aspect of our way of life. We have closed schools for months and cancelled some of the most important exams possible. Yet, in that context, the Minister of Education remains adamant that it is safe, fair and appropriate for 10- and 11-year-old children to sit up to five examinations in January and February 2021. How, in that context, can it be safe or fair for the Education Minister to allow private transfer test providers to require 10- and 11-year-old children to sit up to five examinations in January and February for admission to a post-primary school during a public health pandemic when he can legislate otherwise and when 8,500 responses to an Education Committee survey include over 60% of parents, guardians and teachers saying that they are very or extremely concerned about children taking tests this year? Of the parents, guardians and teachers surveyed, the highest-scoring preferred approach for post-primary transfer this year is not to sit the tests and to use non-academic admissions criteria instead. Furthermore, 43% of parents, guardians and teachers are of the opinion that post-primary transfer tests should be abolished. Given that tens of thousands of pupils have been in self-isolation since August, it is time for the Education Minister to provide full, open and transparent information on the extent of self-isolation rather than obfuscating behind codes and percentage figures.

The Education Minister says that there are no alternative admissions criteria. Yet, his Department recommends alternative admissions criteria. DE circular 2016/15 advises all grant-aided schools on post-primary admissions and recommends categories such as free school meals, named primary schools, named areas, nearest suitable school and sibling at school as appropriate criteria. What has the Education Minister done to scope alternatives and with whom has he engaged on the matter?

Children deserve better and more from the Education Minister. The motion calls on the Minister of Education to outline an alternative contingency plan for post-primary transfer this year. I hope that he has one. I commend the motion to the House.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

As I said, every Member who is called will have five minutes to speak. The next Member on the list is Robin Newton.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. First, I thank Louise Close and her colleagues in the Assembly Engagement team for what was a very useful exercise. At this stage, I want to pay tribute to principals, boards of governors, teaching staff and all support staff for the way in which they have reacted during the pandemic. We owe them all a debt of gratitude.

Despite the Chair's remarks, which, if I am honest, I find nearly insulting, it was right to carry out the survey. It was right to carry out a survey in the middle of a pandemic. Given the circumstances in which we all found ourselves — unknown circumstances and a place where we had never been before — it was right to do that. I welcome that, today, all our schools are open, the teaching staff are there and the children are being educated. The fact that that is happening stands in stark contrast to the very negative approach of the Chair of the Committee.

I want to refer to the survey. Before I do, the Chair made some remarks about children, school principals and teaching staff always being safe. Nobody would dispute that in any way. It goes without saying that we want the very best protection for the teaching staff and pupils in every school, from the moment that they go in through the front gates of the school until they come back out again, in whatever circumstances the children find themselves.

I want to refer to some of the findings of the post-primary transfer survey, and I note that the Chair will refer to those when he speaks as an MLA. Before we had the COVID-19 crisis, 91% of respondents planned to sit the transfer test. When the COVID-19 situation occurred, responding on how they felt about children taking the post-primary test during the lockdown period, 61% of parents or guardians, 64% of teachers and 67% of others stated that they were concerned or extremely concerned. It would have been strange if they were not concerned in those circumstances, which were impacting on every sector of industry.

When asked the question about whether the test should be run as planned in the autumn, 45% of young people wanted the test to be run as planned rather than changing the date of the term; 25% felt that schools should use a different way of assessing academic ability, based on scores in primary schools; 14% felt that the tests should be delayed until January 2021; and 12% felt that the tests should not be run.

When young people were asked about whether the tests should be abolished, 35% felt that they should be retained, 14% felt that they should be changed and 13% were unsure. While 38% wanted the tests to be abolished, up to 62%, therefore, wanted the tests to be retained or changed or were unsure.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Member for giving way. I noted that he mentioned young people. We are talking about children and a pandemic. Does the Member believe that it is fair on those children to be put into that situation, given all the great challenges that our society and young people have faced this year?

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an additional minute.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

It is fair to ask whether children should have been put into the situation, but the children were included in the survey. That is a fact.

If we look at the results on post-primary transfer, we see that, before the COVID-19 crisis, 74·5% of parents and guardians were planning for their child to take the transfer test, 21% were not and 4·5% specified "Other". It is right that the survey was done, but, underneath it all, there is a current running against selection and the grammar schools as we know them.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Sinn Féin supports the motion tabled by the Education Committee, and, as the Deputy Chair of the Committee, I am impressed by the number of people who took part in the survey. Like the Member opposite, I thank Louise and the Assembly team for their work.

With over 8,500 respondents, the survey shows the intense level of interest in post-primary transfer and, in particular, the worries over this year. Parents, children and teachers responded to the survey, and that is why the work was so valuable. It reflects the reality on the ground of what transfer is like here.

Sinn Féin's position on the unregulated tests used by some schools and carried out by private companies is clear: they should be abolished. However, for today's debate, I will mainly focus on this year's situation, brought in by COVID. The use of this system discriminates against children from socially deprived backgrounds, those with a special educational need and those with social and emotional needs. Over the past week, I have been contacted by many parents, teachers and concerned groups. Unfortunately, I do not have time to read out them all, but I thank them for getting in touch.

I will read out a piece that was sent to me by a primary 7 teacher. She said:

"The stress at present for children, parents and teachers alike is unimaginable. I teach in a socially and economically deprived area and only one pupil in my class is being tutored. I overheard a girl in my class ask a boy why he was not doing the transfer test, and he said, 'Sure, you can only do the transfer test if you are loaded'. That tells a very heartbreaking story that a child, at 10 years old, is so aware and relates a test to money. This is not academic selection; it is social selection."

She goes on to say:

"Children missed out on months of education. I have some children who are taking the test who did not log in or engage with me during the entire lockdown period. In terms of teaching and learning, I am trying to deal with the day-to-day issues in relation to COVID whilst trying to cover a vast amount of work that was missed."

There is now a culture of private tutoring for many children. I ask the Minister to agree for the funding given by the Executive for the Engage programme to be used by primary-school pupils to purchase an online tutoring app. What is his Department doing to ensure that the Engage funding is used to support all children who have fallen behind because of the disruption in their education?

As outlined by the Chair, when teachers were asked for their preferred method of transfer, the most popular position was not to run the test this year and for schools to use non-academic admissions criteria. Teachers were also asked how they felt about children taking the transfer test following COVID, and 92% were concerned in some way. What is striking and deeply unsettling about the survey is some of the common words arising from feedback from young children about the transfer test: "worried", "nervous", "scary", "unfair", "stress", "concerned" and "sad". These are 10-year-old children in the midst of a global pandemic: where is the compassion for them?

Many teaching unions have shown leadership on the issue and have called for an end to academic selection: I commend that leadership. I also commend the leadership of the schools that, so far, have decided not to use the transfer test this year, in particular St Columb's College and Thornhill College in Derry.

Finally, as is the case in the House, the survey does not find consensus on post-primary transfer, but it is clear that new arrangements must be considered if we are serious about putting children first in our education system.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

As SDLP education spokesperson, I welcome the opportunity to participate in this important debate. At the outset, I know and acknowledge that this is and has been for some time a controversial and divisive subject of debate. However, it is imperative that pupils, parents and schools have clarity for the future, especially given the impact that the current pandemic is having on education as a whole.

I put on record my appreciation for the many teachers and school staff who have gone back into classrooms in schools across Northern Ireland today. They are working in intolerable conditions and are in uncharted waters. In that regard, I wish all our staff and pupils a safe return to our schools. I hope that the Minister will do everything in his power to provide the necessary support to our teachers in the school environment, who have found the opening of schools after the first wave to be a very stressful situation. I am sure that that has been notified to him.

The SDLP believes at its core that academic selection is grossly unfair and in major need of an overhaul. Given the inaction or unwillingness of the House to tackle the issue, we are left with unregulated transfer tests that are not in the best interests of all our children across Northern Ireland. The way in which the situation is being dealt with is almost a hokey-cokey approach. In addition to those issues, we believe that the concerns of parents and teachers about the current use of transfer tests needs to be addressed, especially in the context of the pandemic. In that regard, I welcome the survey conducted by the Education Committee, and I thank the Committee and Assembly staff who were involved. The Education Committee set out to gauge the opinions of parents, teachers and other stakeholders in an online survey that ran between 7 July and 7 September. As was mentioned by my Committee colleagues, 8,528 responses were received. That work was bolstered by a young persons' survey, which resulted in 754 completed surveys. The findings of the survey highlight the fact that there is significant concern among teachers and parents about transfer tests proceeding in January 2021. I wish to cover a number of those items in my contribution.

The biggest concern surrounds the interruption to education in primary 7 and children in primary 6 having their education significantly disrupted by the restrictions that were brought in to tackle the COVID-19 pandemic — for example, those children could not have properly completed the whole curriculum in English and maths during that period. What is more is that the blended learning that children were encouraged to engage in during lockdown has been recognised to be a much less effective way of learning when compared with face-to-face teaching — obviously. Postponing transfer results until January is a small consolation to many of those pupils and does not afford them enough time to deal with the huge deficit in learning opportunities that were lost during the pandemic.

To compound that, since schools reopened for the current academic year, there has been massive disruption to the current primary 7 cohort, with over half of our schools being affected by over 2,000 COVID-19 cases. That has had a significant impact on pupils' personal health or that of their families and on their mental health in having to deal with family illness or even death in some circumstances. Expecting pupils who have had to suffer in such ways to sit through a test that will, in most aspects, determine their very own futures is absolutely reprehensible.

It is the SDLP's view, now that schools have returned after the half-term break, that the disruption to education that the virus has posed will only worsen, given the onset of the winter weather conditions that are conducive to its spread. Things may get worse over the Christmas period, which could result in disruption to schools in January.

The lockdown has had the same impact across the student population. Reports show us, for example, that those from a disadvantaged background, as outlined by Ms Mullan, will be disproportionately impacted as a result of the pandemic. It has also affected what is expected from them as children and young people.

We mentioned young people. We are talking about children, and we should remember their age. They have gone through a very difficult period this year with their learning, and we need to support them. If consideration is given to removing the test this year, Minister, please ensure that a fair process is put in place so that children from disadvantaged backgrounds have the same access to opportunities as those from more affluent areas, which is clearly the issue.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for being here to hear this really important debate. I thank the Chair and members of the Education Committee for inputting to the consultation. The Committee spent some time agreeing the questions that went into the consultation. I put on record my thanks to the people who put the consultation together, particularly Louise. I thank the teachers, pupils and parents who contributed to the consultation returns. If there is one thing that it has shown us, it is that the public, teachers and pupils are as divided on academic selection as we are. I am glad that we have not hankered too much in the debate to talk about the percentages and the returns, because that does not provide the answer. Today is not the day to address transfer testing holistically; debates on the transformation of education will be the grown-up time to discuss it.

From the very outset of his mandate, the Minister outlined that he will hold fast to —.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

Will the Member give way

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

Yes, of course.

Robin Newton (DUP, Belfast East)

The Member referred to the selection test. Does the Member agree that it was irresponsible to do away with the 11-plus before an adequate discussion and negotiation took place to identify another system that could be put in place?

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an additional minute.

Robbie Butler (UUP, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Member for his intervention. That was before my time. However, from my background in the Fire and Rescue Service, I know that when you are in the midst of a crisis, you do not take draconian actions; you take measured steps as part of a thoughtful process. We need to do that in education. If we want to get rid of academic selection, we need tried-and-tested alternative arrangements, which I do not believe are there, and that will be borne out by what I am going to share from the results of the consultation.

I agree with the sentiment of the motion. I support the motion. The Minister needs to do something to provide contingency plans in the event that the test goes ahead: we need to know that our children are safe. Daniel McCrossan picked up on that point: our children need to be absolutely safe. There have been 8,700 responses to the consultation; there have also been 7,000 responses to the 'bring it back to primary' petition. There are measures that we can take, such as reducing the number of tests that pupils sit this year. There are things that we can do.

If COVID takes us to a place where the test is not taken, we need to ensure that the alternative arrangements are fair. As the consultation shows, people do not agree that the arrangements are fairer than the transfer test. Whether the test goes ahead was split across parents, teachers and pupils. I, like many of you guys, have had multiple emails from teachers and others with vested interests about what we should do. I hope that the Minister outlines at the end of the debate some of the contingencies that he is considering.

I will pick out one or two issues; I will not labour too heavily on the statistics. The Chair pointed out that there is a strong voice asking for the abolition of the test, but, similarly, 48% to 50% either want to keep it or to reform it. It is in a balanced place, guys; it is not as straightforward as just abolishing the test. Going back to Mr Newton's point, if we are going to get rid of the test, we need to ensure that whatever replaces it is better and fairer. It must not be just a change for change's sake.

I am sorry to do this, guys, but for the right reasons, the Deputy Chair and Daniel McCrossan both picked up on socially disadvantaged people. I was deeply saddened to see in the consultation socially disadvantaged people, such as children who are on free school meals and SEN pupils. The disappointing thing is that when respondents were asked what alternative arrangements they would like to see, do you know what finished bottom of the pile? Those on free school meals and those with special educational needs. It was not politicians who came back with those answers. For me, it was the most disappointing thing in the survey. If we are trying to tackle educational underachievement and trying to pull people up and not push anybody down, how can we do that when we know that those who academically suffer the most are those in socially disadvantaged areas who may be on free school meals or have special educational needs? The consultation told us that those were the two areas of least importance for alternative arrangements, and that really surprised me.

One of the good points of the consultation — I know that Daniel will probably bounce in on this one — was the responses of our children. Mental health is my soapbox; it is the thing that I want to drive and talk about, and I will talk to anybody about it. At times, we underplay the resilience of our children and young people. This year's P7 cohort said in quite strong numbers, "Do you know something? I think we need to do the test this year". An interesting part of the consultation picked out the children in those schools that have decided not to do the test; 82 of those children responded to the consultation and said that they feel that they have now been disadvantaged because they are not getting an opportunity to do the test. That is out of the mouths of the babes. We have to listen to our young people and take on board their wishes. They have been preparing for this, and not just for the past two or three months. It is a system that they have known and been aware of since they were in P1. It may not be the best, but we can improve it and do a whole lot better.

At its end, the survey asked the young people for three words. The Deputy Chair picked out a couple, and I will give a couple. Whether they do the test or not, I say this to each and every one of them: you are enough.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

As other Members have done, I thank Louise and the Assembly team for the hard work that they undertook to bring the survey to the Education Committee. The survey is a good yardstick for debate. As has already been said, it provides food for thought. Although I have no objection to the motion, I agree that serious thought needs to be given to transfer tests this year. I support the transfer test, but I also support good, serious reform, not a knee-jerk reaction such as what happened with the 11-plus.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for taking an intervention. We talk about reform of the transfer test; what about reform of the education system so that children do not think that they are being disadvantaged if they cannot go to their nearest school?

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member has an additional minute.

Maurice Bradley (DUP, East Londonderry)

Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Member for her intervention. Of course, she is right. It is incumbent on the House to have a proper debate around the reform of education. I agree with her in that regard. I support some sort of transfer test, but it has to be reformed in a great way. I make the point that it is parents, not the Education Minister, who put their children forward for the transfer test. In that light, it is unfair to criticise the Minister in that regard.

I have a question about the survey itself, because I do not know the answer: how many respondents could use the same email or IP address from the same household? Was it open to all in each household, or was it a single response per IP address or email address? That is something that I do not know.

On safety, I would like to see a greater roll-out of IT equipment and the lack of broadband availability being properly addressed. I know that the Minister will already be making plans for a fair and equal transfer test.

In closing, I am confident that the Minister will have a plan B to cover further disruption to the school year owing to COVID-19, should that be necessary.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

This has been an interesting debate thus far. Fair play to the Education Committee for commissioning the survey and the work that it has been involved in around the transfer test, particularly this year's transfer test and the difficulties that that has brought.

COVID-19 has had a dramatic impact on education, as it has on all aspects of our lives. I welcome the fact that, today, our children and young people are back in their schools. It is important that the Executive do everything in their power to ensure that our schools remain open. There is a responsibility on parents and others in society to make sure that that happens; we have to mind our actions and be socially responsible, whether around the school gates or in any other aspect of our lives. When I hear the figures on the COVID infections in schools, the first question that I ask myself is whether the infection was caught in school or as the result of activities outside the school.

That is an important factor to consider. The safety of our pupils and our staff is vital, and we all have a part to play.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that the expectation that principals and school leaders should carry out track and trace in schools is unfair and adds to what is already a very difficult situation for them?

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

It is grossly unfair and has placed huge pressure on our schools, our principals and our teachers. Without them, in many cases, track and trace would not exist, because they are the ones who are doing it. That is something that the Executive will have to look at as we move towards having a proper tracking, tracing and supporting element.

As I said, I am an avid opponent of academic selection. It is not that I am opposed to grammar schools or to A, B and C. I am opposed to academic selection, because there is no evidence to support the claim that academic selection gives added value to the education system. There is, however, a weight of evidence to show that it damages the education system and that it damages young people. I can think of no other area of public policy that has so much evidence weighted against it. In any other circumstances, our media would lambast us daily for continuing to use academic selection. Apart from a few examples, for whatever reason — I know what I think are the reasons why they do it — our media supports academic selection on the basis that it has parental support. Smoking in bars used to have support. Driving without a seat belt used to have very popular support. There are people out there who will tell you that COVID-19 does not exist. In fact, I was stopped recently while on a walk by a guy who tried to shake my hand. He took offence because I would not shake his hand and then tried to tell me that there is no such thing as COVID-19. There are opinions about everything, but then there is evidence. The evidence tells us that academic selection is bad for our education system. Our responsibility as legislators is to ensure that something that is bad policy is removed.

Particularly this year, why are we having this debate? We are having it because two private companies are supplying our schools — our publicly funded schools — with tests. I do not know to which Committee of this House those two private companies are accountable. In fairness, they are not accountable to the Minister, because academic selection is outside his remit. They are not accountable to the Education Committee, because they are two private companies. The question then is this: why are two private companies interfering in our education system in the first place?

On the timing of the tests etc, schools also have a huge responsibility. There are schools that have led by example by stepping forward and saying that they will not be carrying out academic selection this year. I hope that that continues, but there is no reason that all schools should not step forward and say that they will not be carrying out academic selection this year. They do not have to wait on an instruction from the Minister. I would love to stand here and lambast the Minister, trust me. It would be an easy speech. He has certain responsibilities for all these things, but we have devolved significant powers to our post-primary sector. Whether it is a grammar school or not, our schools have significant powers. Boards of governors carry significant powers in their hands, so they have a responsibility to step forward and say that there will be no academic selection this year. That in itself would take huge pressure off our children and young people.

I object to the suggestion that the test should be returned to the primary schools, and I do so on this basis: what about the children who are not sitting the test? My colleague Karen gave the very good example of P7 teachers. Why should the education of those children be disrupted and abused because some either want to or are being told that they have to sit an test? It is totally unfair and wrong. In fact, the entire debate — not today's debate in the Chamber, but the debate about the test — has been about a section of our education system and a section of our pupils. That is what is wrong with academic selection. The focus of the whole machine is on those who are doing the test, and that leaves people behind. If you want evidence of what is wrong with academic selection, listen to the debate over this last few weeks and months. It is about the few, not the many.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

The Member's time is up.

John O'Dowd (Sinn Féin, Upper Bann)

Our education system has to be about all our children.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

It is just past five to two, and Question Time commences at 2.00 pm. The next Member to speak is Mr McNulty, but I do not think that it would be fair to curtail his speech in that way.

Some Members

Go ahead. Go for it, Chris.

[Laughter.]

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Or maybe it would be; I do not know. I ask Members to take their ease while Ministers come into the Chamber for Question Time.

The debate stood suspended.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair)

Oral Answers to Questions — The Executive Office

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

1. Mr Harvey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how many people have downloaded the StopCOVID NI contact tracing app since it launched. (AQO 964/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Department of Health has advised us that, as of this morning, the StopCOVID app has been downloaded 495,745 times.

Harry Harvey (DUP, Strangford)

Thank you, deputy First Minister. How can we increase the number of those downloading and engaging with the app?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It would be helpful if all of us were to use our good offices at every opportunity to promote the use of the app. It is testimony to the public's desire to do their part that so many people have downloaded the app. I also welcome the fact that an app has now been designed specifically — if I can say that word — for younger people. That will, I think, see an increase in the number of people who use the app. The version that has been developed for 11- to 17-year-olds will help reach more people, and we are asking our schools, FE colleges and others to promote it. Our repeating the message to download the app is one of the key ways in which we will increase the number of people using it.

Pat Sheehan (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. What supports have been provided for those who are required to self-isolate?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Self-isolation is a crucial part of the strategy to stop the transmission of COVID in our community, so it is important that people are financially supported to self-isolate when required. In March, the Communities Minister, Deirdre Hargey, introduced enhancements to the discretionary support scheme to further support people affected by the pandemic. That includes a non-repayable COVID-19 living expenses grant to assist with the short-term living expenses where a person or any member of their immediate family is diagnosed with COVID-19 or is advised to self-isolate.

Regardless of circumstances, a discretionary support COVID-19 living expenses grant award will include a specific amount for any children in the household and can be made for periods of more than 14 days. That means that it is possible for individual awards to exceed £500, which makes it a more supportive intervention than there is anywhere else. It will also support the lowest-paid workers. I remain committed to working with all Ministers to support those required to self-isolate and the individuals and families who need support during these most challenging of times.

Colin McGrath (Social Democratic and Labour Party, South Down)

The deputy First Minister may be aware that the Health Committee was told recently that an update was due to the app that might reduce the time that people have to self-isolate. The app works back 14 days, so there is an opportunity to reduce the window in which a person might have to self-isolate. Does the deputy First Minister know when that update might be made available?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I was not aware of that conversation at the Health Committee, but I can ask the Department of Health for that information. We are told that advances are being made all the time with regard to the app, and I know that there is work ongoing on the period of self-isolation. We have yet to see the evidence on that, but, no doubt, we will get that over time. I will pass on the comments to the Department of Health.

Jim Allister (Traditional Unionist Voice, North Antrim)

Some might think that there is a need now for a track-and-trace system for COVID small business grants following the scandalous retention of such vital money by the deputy First Minister's party until they were flushed out by Stephen Nolan. Why should the public not conclude that, if Stephen Nolan had not caught Sinn Féin out, there would never have been an intention to pay back the money?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I do not think, a Cheann Comhairle, that that question is relevant to the original question. However, I am very happy to say again in the House today what I said publicly last week: what happened was wrong and totally unacceptable. As soon as the party leadership became aware of what had happened, we moved swiftly to deal with the issue.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

2. Mr Lunn asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on progress towards an apology and an appropriate memorial for victims of historical institutional abuse. (AQO 965/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Victims and survivors of historical institutional abuse (HIA) have endured unimaginable pain and suffering at the hands of those who should have protected them. We are absolutely committed to making sure that they get the acknowledgement and redress that they deserve to help them to move forward and to rebuild their lives.

The interim advocate has been working with victims and survivors groups to advise on an official apology. He has also looked at the experiences of other jurisdictions to help to inform that advice. We received his report on 16 October and took the opportunity to discuss it with him on 20 October. He has highlighted the importance of a wholehearted apology that deals with acknowledgement, responsibility, recognition and repair. The Executive Office has engaged separately with Survivors and Victims of Institutional Abuse (SAVIA) on the apology, and we will receive a full report of its views.

It is really important that we get this right, as victims and survivors have waited nearly four years since the Hart report was published. We will come forward to victims and survivors groups with plans for the apology as soon as possible. On 6 October, we announced the appointment of Fiona Ryan as the Commissioner for Survivors of Institutional Childhood Abuse. Fiona will take up position from 14 December. As well as her critical interest in an apology, she will certainly take up the issue of a memorial.

Trevor Lunn (Alliance, Lagan Valley)

I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answer. She mentioned the interim advocate's activities. He has announced that the advice services will be in place from the start of December. Can the Minister advise us on the extent to which those services will be available? Will they be limited services or full services?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

As you know, the Hart report recommended that specialist support services should be available to victims and survivors, offering counselling and practical help tailored to their needs. I am pleased to say that the Executive Office is taking steps to establish a wide range of additional services for HIA survivors. The Victims and Survivors Service (VSS) will deliver dedicated health and well-being social support and related services to victims and survivors of HIA. From today, Monday 2 November, support is available directly to meet pressing and immediate needs including persistent pain, disability aids and psychological support.

We intend that the HIA support service will be officially launched from 1 December. That will include dedicated health and well-being caseworkers, outreach, drop-in and social support that is local and easily accessible. Representatives of the victims and survivors groups have helped to develop the case for the support service and assisted VSS, TEO and the interim advocate's office in designing the arrangements. The service will build on what is already available for HIA victims and survivors and on the interim service for counselling and emotional support that was established in early summer. It is another important milestone in the fuller implementation of the Hart report.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I ask Members to desist from using their mobile phones in the Chamber, please. We are getting a lot of interference in the system.

Christopher Stalford (DUP, Belfast South)

Will the deputy First Minster assure the House that co-design of every stage of delivery will be at the heart of this restorative scheme? It is so important that we carry people with us. Secondly, can she give the House an update on where we are with the financial scheme in respect of compensation, specifically the contributions required from institutions?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

On your first point, co-design and co-production are essential. If we are to get this right and have the confidence of the victims and survivors, they have to be at the heart of designing things. I am happy to make that commitment in the House today.

The Member will be aware — I think that we have talked about it at different Question Times — that we are seeking meetings with a number of the relevant bodies. Everybody has to play their part.

There is a huge lift and a huge responsibility in getting financial redress payments to those who need them. We are working our way through that and hope to have meetings with the relevant institutions in the coming weeks.

Kellie Armstrong (Alliance, Strangford)

Will the deputy First Minister ensure that applicants to the redress board are made aware of what information is being sought about applicants, particularly if the board is seeking their criminal records, as this is very distressing for victims?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I am very happy to take that on board and will speak to the relevant officials.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I am disturbed by the interference on the equipment here.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Minister for her answers, particularly in relation to the support services that have been put in place for victims. It is extremely important that they get the support that they need, particularly at this time when they have to go through the application process. Will the Minister update us on the work of the HIA redress board on administering the redress payments and whether any issues have arisen during that process?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for her question. As we all know, historical institutional abuse should never have happened. It was so wrong, on so many levels, that trust was breached and children were violated. They were all failed by a system that should have protected them but that turned a blind eye and covered up systemic abuse. We owe it to them to make sure that we get this right and that they get the redress that they deserve. I know that redress has been a long time coming. As a matter of fact, it has been far too long in coming. However, we have started to make some progress in supporting victims and survivors. The redress board opened for applications on 31 March, and, within seven weeks, the first compensation payments were made. That was all within the timescales that were set out by the president of the board. That was a significant milestone for the victims and survivors, who are now starting to receive their long overdue compensation. As of 28 October, 647 applications have been received, of which 171 were from people who participated in the Hart inquiry. Panels have made determinations totalling £5·1 million and paid out a total of £3·7 million.

Dolores Kelly (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Upper Bann)

Will the deputy First Minister update us on the recruitment of the Victims' Commissioner, given that we are concerned about how many people in society are hurting both from institutional abuse and from the conflict?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I was happy to make a statement to that effect to the House only a short number of weeks ago. We are delighted that Fiona Ryan is coming on board. That will be a new beginning for the work with victims and survivors and will build on all the recommendations of the Hart report, such as the apology, the memorial and all that we have committed to. She is due to take up her post on 13 December, and we look forward to that.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Before I call the next Member, I advise that oral questions 4 and 12 and topical questions 2 and 6 have been withdrawn.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

3. Mr Beattie asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister when they will bring the new ministerial code before the Assembly. (AQO 966/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We are considering draft amendments to the ministerial code to reflect the changes in the law introduced by the Executive Committee (Functions) Act 2020. Following Executive agreement, we will table a motion for their approval by the Assembly at the earliest opportunity.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

Thank you, Minister. Given that the Executive Committee (Functions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2020 is now law, does that mean that decisions are being made by Ministers that are now outside the scope of the present ministerial code?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

No, that is not the case. We are aware that the Minister sought legal advice and is perfectly content that she has taken decisions in line with the code as it currently sits.

Matthew O'Toole (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Belfast South)

Deputy First Minister, one of the reasons that this place was in abeyance for three years was lack of public confidence in financial transparency and in holding Ministers to account. Will she confirm that, when a new ministerial code is brought forward, it will be enforced by the standards commissioner, who will have the powers and the logistical firepower to hold Ministers to account properly?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I can confirm that that is the case. When the ministerial code is in place and is confirmed by the Assembly, the commissioner will work on that basis.

Rachel Woods (Green, North Down)

When will a new panel for ministerial standards be appointed?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I do not have that information with me, but I am very happy to provide it to the Member in writing.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I call Claire Sugden.

Claire Sugden (Independent, East Londonderry)

My supplementary question has been asked. Thank you.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

5. Ms Anderson asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to set out the time frame for enabling works on the Ebrington clock tower. (AQO 968/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We are making good progress in regenerating the north-west and bringing about prosperity for the people of that area through recent and continued investment. The £200 million that was made available through the region's city deal will help us to stimulate growth and attract jobs. We are committed to the development of the graduate-entry medical school at the University of Ulster's Magee campus, and, through our Urban Villages programme, we are progressing the redevelopment of Meenan Square. We are also committed to the continued implementation of the Communities in Transition project, which seeks to support and empower those who live and work in the Brandywell and Creggan areas of the city. Those critical and very significant investments will complement the great progress that we have already seen in the redevelopment of the Ebrington site.

We are pleased to report that the procurement process to appoint a works contractor to complete enabling works on the clock tower building is now under way. An appointment is expected by 30 November. The works programme is expected to run for approximately 12 weeks from December 2020, and that is, obviously, dependent on the weather. We will continue to advance all remaining development works on-site and look forward to seeing those being completed for the benefit of all in the wider area.

Martina Anderson (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Go raibh maith agat, Minister, and thank you for that full and complete answer. Passers-by in Derry will have seen the new construction of grade-A office accommodation taking place in Ebrington. Will the Minister provide an update on the second building that is proposed for grade-A office accommodation in Ebrington, please?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Thanks to the Member for her question. The developer of that grade-A accommodation, Heron Property Limited, received planning approval in September 2019, and works to construct the building commenced in December 2019. Whilst they were temporarily delayed due to the lockdown, works recommenced in July 2020. Construction works are expected to be complete by March 2022, and, when complete, we anticipate that the project will bring significant benefits to the city and the region and will be a key catalyst for the site.

Gary Middleton (DUP, Foyle)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answers so far. On the grade-A office accommodation at Ebrington, does the Minister have any information on whether investors are still keen to put jobs on the site, given the current COVID environment?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

We have no information to the contrary, so we will continue to work with them to make sure that this is progressed. The construction of the grade-A office accommodation that has commenced will provide 50,000 square feet of office accommodation. That is huge, and it can accommodate between 400 and 450 people. We will continue to work with the contractors to make sure that the work continues, is delivered and brings the benefits that we know that it will bring.

Mark Durkan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

It is great to see advancement on Ebrington. It has been long overdue. Has the Executive Office heard any concerns from the business community in Derry that, while it is great that there will be business and office accommodation at Ebrington, it will not create new jobs per se and it runs a risk of displacing jobs in the city and across the district?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

No, we have not heard any concerns about that, but, obviously, the current COVID restrictions make it difficult for Ministers to get out and about and engage with people. I have certainly spoken to numerous business people in the city and have committed to making a visit at some stage in the near future so that we can talk out all those issues.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I remind Members to desist from using their mobile phones. There is a lot of disturbance on the computer system here. I appeal to Members to do that.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

6. Mr Humphrey asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister how the work of the high streets task force can encourage shoppers to visit the key shopping areas of our towns and cities during the Christmas shopping period in what has been a difficult year for retailers. (AQO 969/17-22)

Paula Bradley (DUP, Belfast North)

14. Ms P Bradley asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the high streets task force that was announced on the 6 August 2020. (AQO 977/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 6 and 14 together.

I share Mr Humphrey's desire for a Christmas period that will bring relief to the retail sector whilst remaining safe for shoppers and those who work in the sector. We can all play a part in encouraging that in the coming weeks.

The high street task force will look beyond that immediate challenge. It is clear that our town and city centres face a range of economic and social challenges. Whilst the COVID-19 pandemic has, undoubtedly, exacerbated the situation, many of the challenges are long-standing, stemming from the financial crisis of 2009, prolonged underinvestment in infrastructure and changing patterns of consumer behaviour. This calls for a strategic, sustained response, with Departments and local government working in partnership to deliver a vision for sustainable town and city centres as thriving hubs for the retail, services, hospitality and residential sectors.

I recognise that stakeholders are frustrated that the task force is not in place already, and I share that frustration. However, the challenges call for a sustained transformation, not a quick fix, and that needs thorough preparation and planning. We have asked for that work to be accelerated, with detailed proposals to be brought to the Executive later this month and the task force established shortly afterwards.

William Humphrey (DUP, Belfast North)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Recently, I met the Lord Mayor, the chief executive of Belfast City Council and Michael Stewart, the president of Belfast Chamber of Commerce. Over the last two to three years, Belfast retail has had a dreadful time in the marketplace, given the Bank Buildings fire and, of course, this year, COVID. City retailers are struggling. They need help and support. The joined-upness that the Minister referred to in her answer is absolutely urgent. Will the Minister ensure that that joined-upness will be put in place as soon as possible? Can consideration be given to supporting high street traders, particularly in the city that I represent in this place, in the run-up to Christmas, which is so vital to our city centre economy? I was in the city centre on Saturday morning, and, quite honestly, the footfall was very poor. Traders are very concerned: I met them and heard that from them at first hand.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

What will be key to the work will be the joined-up nature of it. None of us can afford to work in silos. We need to work with the industry and local government to bring together all the stakeholders and then bring forward a plan. There should be short-term, medium-term and longer-term goals for us to reach to support the sector. We have said that there is no quick fix here. We believe that this is a complex picture. We are trying to fix something that has been a long time developing, so we are absolutely wedded to a joined-up approach. As I said, proposals will come forward to the Executive before the end of the month.

Karen Mullan (Sinn Féin, Foyle)

Does the Minister believe that the high street task force has a role in COVID-19 management and recovery?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

That builds on the previous question. The challenges that our towns and cities face are not amenable to a quick fix. The decline of the high street is not new. It began long before COVID-19. We now need to see action and delivery to stem the decline, make things more sustainable and plan for recovery. We need to protect our high street, our small retailers and family-owned businesses, who are all at the heart of our communities. These are the most challenging of times for everybody. We need to be innovative and look at how we can bring life back into our towns and cities and how they can be a space in which to live, work and enjoy our leisure time. As I said, we need to work collaboratively with all sectors. Our officials are currently engaged with all the stakeholders in putting together preparations for the high street task force and bringing that forward to the Executive very soon.

Mike Nesbitt (UUP, Strangford)

If the deputy First Minister agrees with the Chief Medical Officer that the R number cannot be controlled with schools and hospitality open at the same time, what more does she think her colleagues in Finance and the Economy can do to help the 65,000 people who work in the hospitality sector?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

There is no doubt that these are the most challenging of times for everybody, not least for the sectors that have been really badly hit. We are now just over two weeks into a four-week period of intervention. Our objective throughout this period is to get the R rate down. The work that we are doing now as an Executive collectively — all Ministers have a role to play in this — is "What does the exit strategy look like?" and "How can we move forward? How can we keep the virus down to a level that allows us to move around a bit more freely?". We intend to publish work around an exit strategy over the coming days, and we will communicate that to the public.

These are really trying times. That is why, when we moved to intervene and bring forward these measures, we knew that we could not do it without financial support. We knew that we could not do it without shoring up the businesses that have been impacted. That will always be our barometer. No matter what we have to do, we need to be able to support the people who are struggling. That will be at the heart of our decision-making.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Steve Aiken is not in his seat to ask question 7, so we will move on to the next question.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

8. Mr Lyttle asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister what communications strategy has been put in place to encourage and ensure compliance with the guidelines and behavioural change necessary to reduce COVID-19 transmission. (AQO 971/17-22)

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

10. Mr Gildernew asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the Executive’s communication strategy, which is critical in achieving buy-in for and compliance with recent Executive decisions aimed at reducing COVID-19 virus transmission rates. (AQO 973/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will ask junior Minister Kearney to answer questions 8 and 10 together.

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

Our ability to reduce the levels of COVID-19 in our community is absolutely dependent on the public getting behind the effort to protect people and to save lives. Our communications strategy focuses on the steps that we should all be taking to stop COVID-19 from spreading and on the very serious consequences of non-compliance. That is a message that can be conveyed no more effectively than by the families who have felt the devastating effects of the virus: those who have lost a loved one to COVID-19. The Executive's public information campaign is being updated for the winter months and includes a testimonial from a bereaved family member that will be broadcast from this Friday, 6 November. That personal testimony will be very impactful in communicating the very real human cost of COVID-19 and the importance of everyone doing their bit by following the restrictions; limiting your contact with others; maintaining social distancing; washing your hands well and often; wearing a face covering; maintaining good respiratory hygiene; downloading the StopCOVID NI app; and isolating and immediately booking a test if you display the symptoms. The compliance communications group, which includes representation from Departments, local government and the PSNI, is working together to ensure that a joined-up approach is taken that will maximise the effectiveness of that messaging through all channels.

Chris Lyttle (Alliance, Belfast East)

I thank the junior Minister for his response. Clear and imaginative communications are vital to encourage behavioural change and to protect life and livelihood from COVID-19. Have the Northern Ireland Executive employed behavioural change experts and/or considered employing local artists and high-profile people in Northern Ireland to help us with that important messaging?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

An integral part of the work that is being carried out in the Department of Health and by the Chief Scientific Adviser and his staff is on taking account of behavioural attitudes and behavioural change in order to assess the effect of the restrictions that we have introduced and how they can obtain greater buy-in from the public, as well as what may be off-putting or neuralgic and not impact positively on human behaviour. We should work on the basis that that informs our approach and our analysis.

The need for more innovative and animated ways of communicating, particularly with our young people, has been a recurring theme of discussion on the Executive. The point is well made, particularly when we look at how the demographics have changed, with the increasing chains of transmission in the younger demographic. It is important that our messaging be targeted and impactful. The need to be more innovative is a point that has been taken on board and that has been emphasised to the Executive's information service in the work that it is taking forward.

On your last point, yes, when we speak to our younger people, it is critical that we engage those from the younger demographic, particularly sports stars from all our codes, to assist us in articulating the important message of the measures that need to be taken by young people in particular in what is a challenging period to ensure that we save lives and that they stay safe.

Colm Gildernew (Sinn Féin, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

Can the Minister update us on the work that is being undertaken by the Executive to strengthen the messaging on enforcement and compliance in order to combat COVID-19?

Declan Kearney (Sinn Féin, South Antrim)

As the Member will know, the Executive have introduced emergency measures to halt the alarming levels of COVID-19 in our communities. We are in the midst of the current intervention. It is severe and restrictive, but, nevertheless, it is designed to try to have the desired effect. None of the decisions that were taken was easy, but our focus is on emphasising the need to protect people and save lives. Key to that, as the Member will know, is breaking person-to-person contact: in other words, breaking the chains of transmission. We are trying to get a balance between introducing restrictions when they are needed to flatten the curve of the infection, mitigating those as much as we can and, as has been discussed during Question Time, protecting our businesses.

The steps that we have taken are informed by the most up-to-date analysis and advice that we had received. Our preference is to work with every member of the community so that we protect ourselves and one another. However, where compliance falls short of what is required, those regulations will, of course, need to be enforced. The strategic compliance group, which is chaired by the other junior Minister and me, works closely with all our partners on a range of compliance, enforcement and communication issues. I want to thank specifically our colleagues in local government and the PSNI for the central role that they have played, along with the Executive Office, over recent weeks. It is a very solid foundation for how we move beyond this period and into the recovery period.

I also want to highlight the important work that has been carried out in my own constituency, particularly by Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council, which has led the way in setting a template for how other local government organisations can follow suit in their work in the community. We are also working to ensure that public messages on the issue are heard and understood. To that end, we have engaged with a wide range of other sectoral interests, including faith groups. Our most important partner in all that is the community. We must understand that the human cost of not adhering to the public health restrictions is severe. We all need to be responsible and take responsibility for our actions and behaviour.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

That ends the period for listed questions. We now move on to 15 minutes of topical questions.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

T1. Mrs Barton asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to outline the reasons behind the failure to appoint a new head of the Civil Service (HOCS). (AQT 581/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for her question. We had a competition. We were not successful in appointing someone. However, as we outlined in our statement to the House on 26 September, we are working to put in place arrangements to fill the HOCS position on an interim basis, and we hope to be able to say something positive about that in the next number of days. However, until that is finalised, we will say no more other than that we will come back to the House to give Members that information first.

Rosemary Barton (UUP, Fermanagh and South Tyrone)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Has anybody declined an approach to be temporary head of the Civil Service?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I will not get into HR issues. We worked through our HR department. Everything was done according to the rules and regulations as they are laid out. We are very glad to have had the work of a number of senior civil servants to help us through this period. For example, Derek Baker has stepped up to assist us in the Executive. On the key issues of the day, whether it is COVID-19 in the Health Department or Brexit, senior civil servants have helped us out, and we are grateful for that work. We hope to make a positive announcement about an interim head of the Civil Service in the days ahead.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

T3. Mr McHugh asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister whether they agree that the COVID recovery plan should promote equality, fairness and inclusion. (AQT 583/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his question. As joint head of Government, I can certainly say that I am committed to leading a power-sharing Government who are defined by equality, fairness and inclusion. Therefore, in planning for recovery and going forward, we want to ensure that this is a good place to live for each and every person who calls it home. We want to work with all groups to deliver a society with social justice, workers' rights and equality at its core.

I am also aware, however, of the disproportionate impact of the virus on black and minority ethnic communities and women; the impact on children and young people's education; the mental health impact of the restrictions that we have had to put in place; and the impact of the loss of employment, particularly on those who are already experiencing poverty. The recovery must provide for those in greatest need and those who have suffered the greatest impact.

Maolíosa McHugh (Sinn Féin, West Tyrone)

Does the deputy First Minister agree that addressing holiday hunger must be at the core of any future COVID recovery plan?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Without a doubt, it is a stressful and difficult time for many people across the community, especially where they have found themselves in a sudden change of circumstances, whether that has been through losing their job or a reduction in income because their hours have been reduced. COVID-19 has exacerbated that issue for many people and families without access to financial resources, so support for those families is vital. We need to be able to support all who are struggling. Holiday hunger is an issue that I and the whole Executive take seriously, and we are determined that the Executive will work to address that while ensuring that children are afforded the best possible opportunities to succeed.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

T4. Ms Ennis asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister, in the light of the fact that Ministers are committed to delivering a victims’ pension scheme, to confirm that the Executive Office will bid for financial resources for the scheme as part of the Budget 2021-24 information-gathering exercise. (AQT 584/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for her question. I can confirm that we are determined to deliver a victims' payment scheme based on need. As part of the Budget 2021-24 information-gathering exercise, the Executive Office has made a bid for finances in the 2021-22 year for £28·72 million; in the 2022-23 year for £64·29 million; and in the 2023-24 year for £72·8 million. The provision of those finances and financial certainty for the scheme are now key to progress.

Sinéad Ennis (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Can she provide an update on the status and timeline of Executive discussions with the British Government in respect of providing adequate resources for the scheme, given that it is British Government legislation?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The First Minister, the Finance Minister, the Justice Minister and I met on 22 September in relation to funding for the scheme, and we agreed to make an urgent request for a meeting with the British Secretary of State, Brandon Lewis, to discuss the issue.

In a letter to the First Minister and myself, dated 26 October, Brandon Lewis set out the British Government's position that the cost of the scheme should be met from within the block grant. To date, he has not scheduled a meeting. That is not a tenable or sustainable position. We will continue to raise the issues of finances and financial certainty, as I did with the British Prime Minister, until this matter is satisfactorily addressed.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

T5. Ms Dillon asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on discussions with the Irish Government about the NDNA commitment. (AQT 585/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I welcomed warmly the Irish Government's announcement of the creation of a €500 million fund for the advancement of North/South projects as part of its Budget exercise on 13 October. While still at a very early stage of development, it is anticipated that the fund will support the delivery of key cross-border infrastructure projects; investment in new all-island initiatives in areas such as research, health, education and the environment; address the challenges of the north-west and border communities; achieve greater connectivity on the island; and enhance the all-island economy and all aspects of North/South cooperation. The fund is a much-needed and welcome investment that will, hopefully, deliver practical benefits for all our people, providing the basis for all-island cooperation.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I call Linda Dillon to ask a supplementary question.

Linda Dillon (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

My supplementary has been answered in the fulsome answer that the Minister gave, thank you.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Emma Rogan is not in her seat.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

T8. Mr McCrossan asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister to provide clarity on the Executive’s approach to the restrictions in the light of the Chief Medical Officer’s (CMO) claims that it will not be possible to keep the R number below one if schools and the hospitality sector are open. (AQT 588/17-22)

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

You are correct, that is the Chief Medical Officer's view, and he has relayed that to the Executive in all our conversations.

We have to be guided by the public health advice. We have to take balanced and reasonable approaches. That is far from easy, and very difficult decisions have to be made. As I said in answer to an earlier question, the Executive are working their way through the exit strategy and what that looks like. We need to be able to communicate that well in advance of 13 November because we need people to have the information so that they can plan. The Executive's work continues on that basis.

Daniel McCrossan (Social Democratic and Labour Party, West Tyrone)

I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. Can she clarify whether she agrees with the position of the First Minister that businesses should reopen, if safe to do so, in two weeks' time, after the restrictions lift?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

Obviously, the ideal is that we allow the maximum number of businesses to be open and the maximum amount of freedom to individuals, but we are in a challenging situation. We brought forward the four-week intervention because we had to. We had no option other than to do something to try to arrest the situation.

Our determination is to make this work, but we are consistent across the board in saying that we want to find a way to move away from continual lockdown. The Executive policy cannot be to have a lockdown strategy. However, I have also been honest enough to say that we have to keep all options on the table. When it comes to what comes next, we need to minimise the disruption to people's lives as much as we can. We need to be guided by the public health advice. We need to invest in the test, trace and find strategy. We need to see more advances in the testing regime. We need better communication with the public, and I welcome the work that is being done on that. We have another few weeks left of the interventions, and, if we all stick at it, we can make a real difference and get the virus down to a level that will allow us to lift some of the restrictions. All the while, we have to be guided by the public health advice.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

T9. Mr McGlone asked the First Minister and deputy First Minister for an update on the legislation relating to languages and culture. (AQT 589/17-22)

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle agus gabhaim buíochas leis an LeasChéad-Aire. Tá mé ag iarraidh a fháil amach an féidir leis an LeasChéad-Aire an dul chun cinn atá déanta maidir leis an reachtaíocht i dtaobh cultúir agus teangacha a chur in iúl dúinn?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

I thank the Member for his question. We are committed to the development and the implementation of the rights, language and identity proposals that are included in New Decade, New Approach. The delivery of those priorities will be important in building our shared future, based on mutual respect and parity of esteem. Whilst the COVID-19 pandemic has undoubtedly delayed

[Interruption.]

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Order, Members.

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

It is very difficult to hear, a Cheann Comhairle, when people are speaking.

Whilst the COVID-19 pandemic has undoubtedly delayed the speed at which we would have liked to see these issues progress, I can assure you that it has not deterred us from delivering them as quickly as possible. Officials are undertaking the necessary preparatory work to legislate for the core elements of the Bill, and we intend to progress the legislation during the 2020-21 year to create the relevant bodies as quickly as possible.

Patsy McGlone (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Mid Ulster)

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasChéad-Aire. Thank you very much indeed, deputy First Minister. You mentioned that there is a time frame for it. Can you tell me what that time frame is and what articles and elements of the Bill have already been prepared?

Michelle O'Neill (Sinn Féin, Mid Ulster)

The Member is aware that there were three separate pieces of legislation to come forward. The drafting of the Bills was done in advance of NDNA. COVID has been the biggest interruption in bringing this forward, but I can assure you that there will not be a moment wasted. As soon as we receive the advice from officials, I hope to be able to come back to the Chamber to talk about its progression.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

Pam Cameron is not in her place, so that brings topical questions to a conclusion. I ask Members to take their ease for a moment or two, please.

Oral Answers to Questions — Justice

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

1. Ms McLaughlin asked the Minister of Justice for an update on her Department's preparations for the UK leaving the EU. (AQO 978/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Work has been progressing across the Department of Justice and the wider justice system to prepare, as far as possible, for the end of the transition period. The key risks of EU exit for my Department are the loss of EU tools that facilitate cooperation among law enforcement partners and the impact that it will have on crime, organised crime and public disorder. Plans to mitigate those risks continue to be impacted by uncertainty about the shape of any future security partnership and the nature of the wider relationship between the UK and the EU at the end of the transition period.

Sinéad McLaughlin (Social Democratic and Labour Party, Foyle)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Does she agree that the removal of access to the European arrest warrant would be a backward step for policing and justice in Northern Ireland?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

We have a number of tools in the European suite of law enforcement tools for sharing and cooperation, among which the European arrest warrant is key. There are other fail-safe mechanisms in place at this point when it comes to issues such as extradition, but none of them is as effective or as efficient in its operation as the European arrest warrant has proven to be.

Emma Rogan (Sinn Féin, South Down)

I apologise for not being in my place earlier during the previous Question Time.

Does the Minister agree that a no-deal Brexit will leave our criminal justice agencies at a disadvantage in tackling crime, particularly along the border corridor?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

We are working very hard to ensure that we are able to maintain safety, security and good order in the justice system. However, there will, of course, be issues with some of the protocols that we have been able to rely on to date. There is, for example, a particular issue with the data adequacy agreement that ensures that we can, in live time, share information across borders. That data adequacy agreement is not yet in place, and it is a key issue for justice. Should we exit the transition period without that agreement being in place, it would have a day-to-day impact on the ability of operational partners to share personal data for the detection and prosecution of pan-EU crime and particularly cross-border crime. There is clearly a challenge that has to be addressed within the next eight weeks. There is a real pressure on all those involved in the negotiations to get down to the detail, to get that over the line and to get an agreement that will allow us to continue to provide a safe, secure and good cooperative relationship across the border.

Doug Beattie (UUP, Upper Bann)

Does the Minister not agree that, in light of contact between domestic terrorist groups in Northern Ireland and international terrorist groups in the Middle East, it would be folly for Northern Ireland, following the end of the transition period, not to align itself with the rest of the UK on the Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Bill?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The Member has strayed somewhat from the issue of the adequacy of EU exit preparations. On the Counter-Terrorism Bill, terrorism in general is not a devolved matter; it is a matter for the Home Office to take forward. However, there are areas where it impacts on the operation of local justice. As the Member will be aware, I took the matter to the Executive and liaised with party leaders, but, unfortunately, there was no agreement among the parties in the House on how to get an agreed legislative consent motion, be it a limited or a full one, through the Chamber. Unfortunately, on this occasion, it will be a matter for Westminster to continue to address, as has been the case.

Alex Maskey (Sinn Féin, Belfast West)

I should have said that oral questions 8, 11 and 14 have been withdrawn.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

2. Ms Kimmins asked the Minister of Justice to outline the next steps in implementing the recommendations of the June 2020 Criminal Justice Inspection report, 'Child Sexual Exploitation in Northern Ireland'. (AQO 979/17-22)

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

As I have advised the House previously, I remain committed to working with criminal justice and health partners to further improve how cases of child sexual exploitation are handled. A multi-agency task and finish group is considering the Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI) report, in line with the work being progressed by the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland and other partners responsible for the operational response to child sexual exploitation and existing child protection mechanisms and protocols. In taking that forward, my officials are having ongoing discussions with partners in the Department of Health, the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland, the Health and Social Care Board and the PSNI, and are developing an action plan that we will share with CJINI once ready.

On an issue such as this, I am always open about how we can improve outcomes for victims by working together better and more strategically, and that is what we will consider as we finalise our action plan in response to the CJINI report and seek to implement the recommendations.

Liz Kimmins (Sinn Féin, Newry and Armagh)

I thank the Minister for her answer. Strategic recommendation 1 states:

"Within six months ... the Department of Justice take forward a cross-Departmental strategic response to tackle child sexual abuse and exploitation".

Four months on, can the Minister assure us that work is under way in conjunction with the PSNI and the Public Prosecution Service to deliver that recommendation in a timely fashion?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

The majority of the recommendations in the CJINI report are operational and will fall to statutory partners to deliver, but the report recognises the importance of ensuring a coordinated, strategic and multi-agency approach to the issue. A multi-agency task and finish group is considering the report in line with the work that is being progressed by the Safeguarding Board for Northern Ireland and other partners that are responsible for the operational response to child sexual exploitation and existing child protection mechanisms and protocols.

The group is also considering the CJINI recommendations alongside those in the recent Leonard Consultancy report on child sexual exploitation that was commissioned by the Safeguarding Board, given that there is a crossover in the recommendations. That should ensure that there is a considered and joined-up approach to the strategic and operational recommendations in both reports. It will include how my Department and our criminal justice partners best support those elements that have a Health lead and vice versa. Through that, a more coordinated and effective response should be able to be secured.

Paul Givan (DUP, Lagan Valley)

The inspectorate's report was very critical of the lack of strategic leadership in addressing the outworkings of the Marshall report, which was completed in 2014. It called for a step change and made the strategic recommendation that the Department of Justice needs to lead the multi-department response. Can the Minister assure the House that she will take on that responsibility and drive forward the kind of response that we need to see?

Naomi Long (Alliance, Belfast East)

Yes, Mr Speaker.