Scottish Parliament, 23 January 2019

262 contributions from 67 members. The official report.

Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

The first item of business is portfolio questions. I recite the usual mantra: short questions and succinct answers, and we will get through everybody.

Transport (Discounts for Young People)

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

1. To ask the Scottish Government what action it can take to allow young people access to cheaper transport, and what its position is on the discounts that are currently offered by the bus and train operators. (S5O-02789)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The Scottish Government continues to take positive targeted action to help young people to access cheaper transport through initiatives such as the national concessionary travel scheme for young people, which offers discounts on bus and rail services. We welcome the range of discounted fares that are offered to young people by operators. Discounts are commercial matters for the individual bus operators. On rail, they are offered under the terms of the ScotRail franchise contract.

The Scottish Government is seeking to introduce free bus travel for young modern apprentices, and for young carers who are in receipt of the planned young carers grant, once it comes into force.

Pauline McNeill (Labour, Glasgow)

On turning 16, a young person is welcomed into adulthood by being asked to pay full fares on all public transport. Many young people at 16 are not working but are still at school. The discounts that the minister talks about are not deep enough. I welcome what the minister has said on apprentices and carers, but surely it is time to recognise that teenagers across the board, but especially 16 and 17-year-olds, need a fairer deal on buses, trains and ferries.

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Pauline McNeill will be aware that the national concessionary travel scheme for young people was introduced back in January 2017 and is delivered through the Young Scot smart card programme. It provides all 16 to 18-year-olds and full-time volunteers up to the age of 25 with discounts on bus travel. A discount rail card is also available for young people.

We are always keen to ensure that we support young people in accessing public transport. On the very specific measure that the member has proposed to provide further discounts over and above what we provide at the present time, no doubt the budget from which she wants that to come will filter through, in the process.

Levenmouth Rail Link

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

2. To ask the Scottish Government what progress has been made in advancing the case and funding for a new Levenmouth rail link. (S5O-02790)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Transport Scotland is leading the transport appraisal work for the Levenmouth sustainable transport study, in close collaboration with Fife Council. The findings from the transport appraisal work will identify whether there is a rationale for progressing the Levenmouth rail link.

Since I last spoke in Parliament about the study, the initial appraisal report has been published and stakeholders were updated on the findings of the report at sessions last November. Stakeholders continue to be updated monthly by email and with information on Transport Scotland’s website.

The draft preliminary options appraisal report, which includes rail link options, is being reviewed by Transport Scotland and Fife Council. The final stage is the detailed appraisal, the timescale for which very much depends on the outcome of the current stage.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I welcome the progress that is now being made, and I hope that we will see that progress continue. There is strong community support for the proposal and recognition of the economic and social opportunities that the rail link would bring. Is the cabinet secretary willing to meet the community organisation that is behind the campaign and come to Levenmouth? I understand that he is meeting one of the constituency MSPs today to discuss the issue, but will he come to Levenmouth?

The one thing that those people are clear about is that this should be—

The Deputy Presiding Officer

No—questions should be short, please.

Alex Rowley (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

—a non-partisan campaign, so will the cabinet secretary come and meet that organisation?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

I have already given agreement to the constituency member’s request to visit Levenmouth. Last week, when I was in Fife, I was approached by a member of the Levenmouth rail campaign. When I was asked whether I would visit, I confirmed that I was more than happy to do so.

I recognise the cross-party support for the proposal. No doubt we will, as the work is taken forward, be able to identify the best option to progress it.

David Torrance (Scottish National Party, Kirkcaldy)

Like Alex Rowley, I have an invitation to put to the cabinet secretary. Will he come to my constituency to meet members of the Levenmouth rail campaign and see the potential economic benefits that a rail link would bring to what is an area of high deprivation?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Yes.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Excellent. Question three has been withdrawn.

Active Travel

Annie Wells (Conservative, Glasgow)

4. To ask the Scottish Government how it promotes active travel. (S5O-02792)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The Scottish Government has doubled the active travel budget from £39.2 million in 2017-18 to £80 million in 2018-19 and 2019-20. The majority of that funding is allocated to local authorities to deliver high-quality walking and cycling infrastructure that enables people to walk and cycle more.

The funding also includes more than £10 million to support local authorities and communities to deliver behavioural change programmes including cycle training and increased access to bikes and facilities, to encourage more people to walk and cycle.

We also recently appointed Scotland’s first active nation commissioner, Lee Craigie, who will become the national advocate for the benefits of walking and cycling, including for everyday short journeys.

Annie Wells (Conservative, Glasgow)

It is estimated that it will, at the current rate of progress, take about 239 years to reach the Scottish Government’s target of 10 per cent of journeys being made by bike by 2020. Although setting an ambitious target is positive—I welcome the steps that the cabinet secretary has set out—how will the Scottish Government ensure that the necessary support is in place to achieve it?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

When Annie Wells said “239 years”, I thought that she was talking about the Brexit negotiations, given that state of affairs.

We have an ambitious programme for driving up active travel. We set an ambitious stretch target and we are seeing progress being made towards it. However, progress is clearly not being made at the speed that we would all like. That is why we doubled the budget in order to drive progress forward in the coming years. I am committed to doing everything that we can do to increase the number of people who choose active travel options when making journeys.

Claudia Beamish (Labour, South Scotland)

I welcome the doubling of the budget and highlight to the cabinet secretary that I visited the south city way CLPLUS—community links plus—project, which was supported on a cross-party basis. Its accessibility and visibility are inspiring.

Can the cabinet secretary tell us more about how it will be ensured that marginalised communities have affordable options in such travel opportunities?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Claudia Beamish raises an important issue. I have on a number of occasions made the point that in promoting and encouraging active travel, we must reach out to hard-to-get-at communities, and to individuals who might not initially think that they will take up an active travel option.

In recent discussions, I challenged the stakeholders who are responsible for taking forward the promotion of active travel to demonstrate in greater detail how they are reaching out to our more deprived communities and ensuring that they are supported to consider active travel options. We are, for example, looking at how we can build the provisions that are necessary to support active travel into the infrastructure of social housing provision. That could include cycle and walking routes, work with housing associations, the creation of e-bike hubs and provision of electric vehicles through a car-club model. Those could be delivered through social housing. I have challenged stakeholders to develop all those in a more detailed way.

I am clear about the need to ensure that active travel is about not just people who are predisposed to being active, but is about reaching out to communities that are more deprived and difficult to get at in order to ensure that they, too, get the benefits of the investment.

Transport Scotland (Support for Tourism)

Jamie Halcro Johnston (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

5. To ask the Scottish Government how Transport Scotland supports and promotes tourism. (S5O-02793)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Working with partners, Transport Scotland supports tourism by investing in our transport network to promote Scotland as an accessible and attractive place to visit. For example, Transport Scotland works closely with Scotland’s airports to help to secure new routes that improve business connectivity and inbound tourism, such as the Edinburgh to Beijing international route, which was introduced in 2018 and is operated by Hainan Airlines.

Jamie Halcro Johnston (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Another area in which Transport Scotland has direct involvement is the use of brown tourist signs on roads.

VisitScotland research shows that those signs are valued and play a role in enabling visitors to reach tourist destinations safely by car. However, a small business in the Highlands and Islands region has recently been quoted almost £50,000 by Transport Scotland to erect just four signs for its business.

Does the cabinet secretary think that that valued scheme is sufficiently affordable and accessible for tourism-focused businesses? If not, what action will he take to support those businesses for which cost is a prohibitive factor?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Obviously, there are clear criteria for the use of road signage, but if Jamie Halcro Johnston would like to furnish me with the specific details of the matter to which he refers, I would be more than happy to get Transport Scotland officials to look into it.

Liam McArthur (Liberal Democrat, Orkney Islands)

Does the transport secretary believe that Transport Scotland’s sanctioning of the replacement of the MV Hamnavoe on the ??Stromness to Scrabster route with a freighter vessel with a passenger capacity of only 12 meets the needs of tourists or the local Orkney community?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

I recognise that there are challenges with some of the vessels, particularly at key points in the year when visitor numbers significantly increase. We continue to look at how we can expand and improve the ferry network in Scotland and improve the vessels that are under construction at present. I recognise that there are challenges in certain parts of the network as a result of increasing demand in freight and passenger numbers. Through the ferries plan, we will continue to address those issues appropriately.

A83 Taskforce (Update)

Donald Cameron (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update following the last meeting of the A83 taskforce. (S5O-02794)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

I chaired a meeting of the A83 taskforce on 15 November 2018. There was a full and frank discussion and I appreciated the opportunity to listen to local concerns.

At the meeting, I made a commitment that the Argyll and Bute region would be prioritised in the forthcoming strategic transport projects review 2. I also announced that we will review the potential for additional physical landslide mitigation measures at the Rest and Be Thankful. I asked Transport Scotland officials to report back to me by mid-February with the findings of the review to enable discussion of the findings at the next taskforce meeting with local and regional stakeholders on 27 March 2019.

Since 2007, we have invested £70 million in the maintenance of that trunk road, including £11 million on landslide mitigation measures at the Rest and Be Thankful and on the local Old Military Road diversion. Those measures have worked, having already successfully stopped landslip material from reaching the road and keeping that important route open for an estimated 50 to 60 days when it would otherwise have been closed.

Donald Cameron (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

The cabinet secretary will be aware that, as the winter snap begins to hit, routes in the Highlands and Islands region, such as the

Rest and Be Thankful stretch of the A83, will inevitably become more treacherous. Given that there is some scepticism about the mitigation measures, what assurances will he give to frustrated residents and businesses that they will be able to travel that route without fear of major delays or road closures?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

I am surprised about Donald Cameron’s reference to scepticism, because the mitigation measures that have been taken follow those that were recommended by the taskforce, which includes local stakeholders. That work continues to be implemented and the sum of almost £4.5 million has been spent on additional measures that are being put into place.

The history of the site is clear—there have been significant problems as a result of landslides. The mitigation measures have had a positive impact. They had not eliminated all the material but, for example, the catch-pits that continue to be installed will provide additional resilience and assurance. The review work that is being undertaken at present by Transport Scotland and its expert advisers will inform us whether there are further measures that we can put into place to mitigate landslide risk on that route.

Caledonian MacBrayne Employees (Western Isles Residents)

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

7. To ask the Scottish Government how many staff employed by Caledonian MacBrayne are resident in the Western Isles. (S5O-02795)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

CalMac Ferries Ltd is a major employer in our island and coastal communities, employing 242 staff who reside in Skye, Raasay, Lewis, Harris, the Uists and Barra.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Will the cabinet secretary commit to examining ways to encourage more staff who work for CalMac or the Government’s ferry division to be given the option in the future of living and working in the communities that they serve?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Alasdair Allan will be aware that CalMac proactively undertakes work in schools and at career fairs in our island communities to encourage people to think about doing an apprenticeship with the company; it also has a cadet programme. CalMac is always keen to encourage island-based locals to apply for jobs at the company.

I am always more than happy to encourage more of the people who reside in our island communities to consider applying for those posts and to look at ways to support that further. I will ensure that my ministerial colleague Paul Wheelhouse, the Minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands, gives further consideration to the issue and to whether further measures can be taken, as Alasdair Allan has suggested, to increase the number of people who live in our island communities and are employed by CalMac.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Greenock and Inverclyde)

Will the cabinet secretary confirm that, notwithstanding the valid point that my good friend and colleague Alasdair Allan has made, the CalMac headquarters will remain in Gourock in my constituency?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

CalMac gave me a firm commitment in its bid for the Clyde and Hebrides ferry service contract to retain its head office in Gourock, and it is an integral part of the community in Inverclyde, where it employs 266 people. I assure Stuart McMillan that we are keen to ensure that communities with close links to CalMac maximise the benefits from them, not only in his constituency but in those of his parliamentary colleagues in our island communities.

First Bus (Meetings)

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

8. To ask the Scottish Government when it last met First Bus. (S5O-02796)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The last meeting that Scottish Government officials held with First Bus was on Monday 14 June this year.

James Dornan (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart)

The cabinet secretary may be aware that a growing number of my constituents have complained about the quality of the bus service from the south of Glasgow into the city centre. I asked First Bus to attend a public meeting that I had arranged, only for it to refuse. Does the cabinet secretary agree that, as First Bus receives substantial amounts of public money, it should be more accountable to the public and be prepared to listen to their needs?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Presiding Officer, I have got ahead of myself. To correct the record, the last meeting that officials had was on 14 January this year, not in June.

I regret that First Bus did not agree to attend the meeting that was organised by James Dornan, and I encourage the member to continue to pursue it on that issue. It is important that First Bus engages with the communities to which it delivers services, and I know of particular areas in the member’s constituency, such as Castlemilk, in which access to bus transport is extremely important to access the city centre. I encourage First Bus to engage with James Dornan and his constituents to address issues of concern and ensure that services are run in a way that reflects the needs of the local community.

Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route (Impact)

Maureen Watt (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

9. To ask the Scottish Government what its initial assessment is of the impact of the Aberdeen western peripheral route on north-east transport. (S5O-02797)

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

Transport Scotland will undertake an evaluation of the AWPR project, in line with the Scottish trunk road infrastructure project evaluation guidance, against both the transport planning objectives and wider evaluation criteria. The evaluation will consider the impact of the scheme by comparing conditions in year 1, year 3 and year 5 after opening with forecasts made during scheme design and development.

Maureen Watt (Scottish National Party, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine)

The cabinet secretary will be pleased to note that we are already seeing a significant reduction in heavy goods vehicles traffic in the Peterculter and Torry parts of my constituency and in Market Street in Aberdeen city centre, which has had unacceptable pollution and emissions levels. When will those next be measured, so that we can see the environmental as well as economic benefits of the Government’s delivery of the AWPR?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I ask the cabinet secretary to keep his answer brief, please.

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

I am pleased to hear that Maureen Watt’s constituents are already seeing the benefits on the ground of that scheme. The feedback that I have received certainly reflects that.

The Government’s project evaluation will include consideration of the impact of the AWPR against a number of criteria, which will include economic, safety and environmental matters. The local authority has a responsibility to consider issues that relate to local air quality monitoring, and to report periodically on the Aberdeen air quality management areas as to the levels in areas where there has been monitoring.

Air quality monitoring at a local level will be undertaken by the local authority, but I can assure Maureen Watt that we will continue to work with Aberdeen City Council to progress the introduction of a low-emission zone in the city by 2020. That is in line with our programme for government commitment to help to improve air quality in our city centres because of its potential impact on individuals who may have preconditions that are related to problems that are associated with taking in contaminated air.

Jamie Greene (Conservative, West Scotland)

Can the cabinet secretary update Parliament on when this delayed project will be fully open to traffic, and, for the record, what the total estimated cost of the project will be?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Falkirk West)

The member will welcome the fact that 85 per cent of the road has now opened and that the north-east economy is getting the benefits of that. The contractors have advised that they have completed the remedial work on the crossing over the River Don. They have still to provide assurances about the remedial work that has been undertaken and the enhanced monitoring arrangements that are being put in place for that. Once they provide that information, it will be passed to Transport Scotland, which will then consider it in relation to the opening of the final section of the road.

The cost still stands at £745 million, as was set out in the contract. The member will recognise that the contractors have stated that they have made a claim, which is not unusual for a major infrastructure project of this nature. As I have made clear, any claim has to be substantiated and evidence based. To date, the contractors have not provided evidence to substantiate any claim. Therefore, the present financial cost still stands.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

We must now move on to the next item. I apologise to Gail Ross for not reaching her question.

Scottish Partnerships (Register of People with Significant Control) Regulations 2017 (Compliance)

Andy Wightman (Green, Lothian)

1. To ask the Scottish Government how many proceedings have been raised against Scottish limited partnerships for failure to comply with the Scottish Partnerships (Register of People with Significant Control) Regulations 2017, and how many convictions there were. (S5O-02799)

The Lord Advocate (James Wolffe QC)

As of last Friday, the Crown has received no reports of alleged offences under the 2017 regulations. Accordingly, the Crown in Scotland has not raised any proceedings under those regulations.

Andy Wightman (Green, Lothian)

As of 10 December 2018, according to work that was undertaken by investigative journalist Richard Smith, just more than 2,700 of the 18,000 active SLPs had not submitted any information. As the Lord Advocate is aware, that is an offence.

In a written answer to a question I lodged on 19 March 2018, the Lord Advocate said that, o

ver the past 10 years, there have been no prosecutions for failure to meet statutory provisions. He also said that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service

“has recognised Companies House as a Specialist Reporting Agency”

and is working with it

“to facilitate the reporting of alleged offences”.—[

Written Answers, 17 April 2018;

SW5-15385.]

What progress has been made on that work, and are any prosecutions anticipated as a consequence, given the fact that the offences are very evident?

The Lord Advocate

A number of cases have been reported to the Crown since that question was asked and answered. They have been reported by Companies House under section 451 of the Companies Act 2006 and are currently being considered. The Crown has continuing engagement with Companies House with a view to facilitating the reporting of other alleged offences, including those under the 2017 regulations.

It is a matter for Companies House, as a specialist reporting agency, to determine its approach to enforcement of the regulations.

Rona Mackay (Scottish National Party, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

All steps to improve transparency around SLPs are, of course, welcome. Does the Lord Advocate agreed that the proposed reforms that were announced by the United Kingdom Government in December last year, snuck out under the cloud of Brexit chaos, still fall far short of what is necessary to close the many loopholes that exist?

The Lord Advocate

It would be more appropriate to direct that question to Derek Mackay. Questions of substance about the proposed reforms to the law are matters for him. I can deal with issues that relate to the investigation and prosecution of alleged offences under the regulations.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Indeed, Lord Advocate.

Police Strength Statistics

Peter Chapman (Conservative, North East Scotland)

2. To ask the Scottish Government when it will next publish the police strength statistics for Scotland. (S5O-02800)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The next edition in the “Police Officer Quarterly Strength Scotland” series, for 31 December 2018, will be published on Tuesday 5 February 2019 at 9.30 am. In line with requirements of the code of practice for official statistics, that publication date has been announced via the Scottish Government’s “Official Statistics—Forthcoming Publications” web page.

Peter Chapman (Conservative, North East Scotland)

The latest police figures show that the number of local divisional officers in the north-east has been cut by 42 in the past year alone, which is a clear demonstration of the Scottish National Party’s policy of centralisation and is to the detriment of communities in my region. Can the cabinet secretary assure me that I will not discover further reductions in the next set of statistics?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

On the local policing issue, as at 30 September 2018, the north-east division had 1,158 full-time police officers, which was an increase of 2.3 per cent from 2013.

I have to mention Peter Chapman’s lack of self-awareness in asking the question when, under the SNP-led Scottish Government, we have 913 more officers than we had in 2007, whereas the Conservative-led United Kingdom Government has utterly decimated police services in England and Wales, where there are 20,000 fewer officers, which is a reduction of 13 per cent. In Scotland, we have 32 officers per 10,000 of population; in England and Wales, there are 21 officers per 10,000. Perhaps a little bit of self-awareness is necessary when the member asks such questions. As we are getting into Burns season, he might want to be reminded of those famous verses:

“O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us

To see oursels as others see us!”

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

I will resist the temptation to quote Burns.

The City of Edinburgh Council currently plans to cut the £2.6 million that it provides the police directly to fund 54 additional community-based officers in the capital. Does the cabinet secretary know the total number of officers who are funded directly by local authorities? What impact have the reductions in local authority spending over the past few years had on the number of community-based officers in Scotland?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I discussed that issue with the member at a recent meeting of the Justice Committee. It is for the local authority to decide how to spend its resource. The member is free to argue otherwise, but I would say that local authorities will receive a very fair settlement in the upcoming budget. If the member thinks that that is not the case, it is incumbent on his party to make proposals on where to remove money from the budget, as we would have to do, to increase the local government budget. No doubt, the member and his party will engage in that process. However, in our investment, we are treating the police fairly and well, with revenue protection plus a 52 per cent increase in the capital budget.

We will continue to invest in the police and in local government. If the member thinks that there should be a change in the budget, he and his colleagues should engage positively in the budget process.

Scottish Independence Referendum (Authorisation)

Mike Rumbles (Liberal Democrat, North East Scotland)

3. To ask the Scottish Government what the Lord Advocate’s position is on its competency to authorise another referendum on Scottish independence without another section 30 order. (S5O-02801)

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

By long-standing convention, the content of any legal advice received by the Government is confidential.

Mike Rumbles (Liberal Democrat, North East Scotland)

What a poor response that was. In the spirit of openness and transparency, which the Parliament prides itself on, does the minister agree that, just as the Scottish ministers demanded that the United Kingdom Government publish its legal advice on Brexit and it was published, the Lord Advocate’s advice on an independence referendum should be published by the Scottish ministers? I see that the Lord Advocate is present in the chamber. It would have been helpful if he had given us the benefit of his advice.

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

Presiding Officer, in the spirit of your oft-repeated plea that ministers and members should avoid extending such exchanges unnecessarily, I refer the member to my previous answer. However, in so doing, I point out that the convention that I referred to is so long standing that it goes all the way back to when the Lib Dems were part of the then coalition Executive. Of course, that was quite some time ago, which is perhaps why the existence of the convention has slipped from Mr Rumbles’s memory.

Adam Tomkins (Conservative, Glasgow)

Is it the Scottish Government’s view that the Parliament could lawfully pass legislation authorising an independence referendum without a section 30 order—yes or no?

Graeme Dey (Scottish National Party, Angus South)

I have to refer the member to my earlier answer.

Kurdish Community (Relations with Police)

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

4. To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to improve the relationship between the police and the Kurdish community. (S5O-02802)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Police Scotland is committed to building positive relationships with all of Scotland’s communities. Responsibility for that lies with the chief constable. However, the Scottish Government understands that Police Scotland has engaged recently with representatives of the Kurdish community to address concerns that have been raised by some of its members. I also understand that Police Scotland has engaged directly with Ross Greer, in his capacity as co-convener of the Parliament’s cross-party group on Kurdistan.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

The cabinet secretary might be aware that police operations over recent years have resulted in members of the Kurdish community being afraid to attend their own community centres and no longer sending their children to language and dancing classes for fear of them being monitored. That is an unacceptable and unsustainable situation. Will the cabinet secretary agree to a meeting with representatives of the Kurdish community and the cross-party group on Kurdistan to discuss how we can improve relations and trust between the community and the police?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I am more than happy to engage with Ross Greer and members of the Kurdish community. He will understand that I cannot do so in relation to any live police investigations but, on the wider issue, I am more than happy to meet him, in his role as the co-convener of the cross-party group, to hear the community’s anxieties and concerns.

Over a number of years, I have engaged with Police Scotland over concerns that I, as a young Asian male and a member of the Muslim community, have had. Having been stopped and searched on numerous occasions in my younger days, when I was growing up, for no apparent reason, I know that it has taken time for Police Scotland to build back up a level of trust with the Muslim community. That takes hard work and effort. I know that the chief constable is absolutely committed to ensuring positive community relations.

Ross Greer can continue to engage directly with Police Scotland. I am more than happy to assist with that, when I can, and to listen to concerns.

Draft Budget (Police Scotland)

Gil Paterson (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

5. To ask the Scottish Government how much Police Scotland expects to receive from the proposals in the draft budget, and how it will allocate this. (S5O-02803)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The Scottish budget for 2019-20, which was published on 12 December last year, contains funding of £1.2 billion for the Scottish Police Authority, which is a 3.7 per cent increase on the 2018-19 budget. The funding includes real-terms protection for the revenue budget and, as I have mentioned, a 52 per cent uplift in the capital budget for investment in modern information and communications technology. It is for the Scottish Police Authority to set its budget for 2019-20, which includes setting the budget for Police Scotland.

Gil Paterson (Scottish National Party, Clydebank and Milngavie)

I am sure that the cabinet secretary will welcome the fact that Police Scotland and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will no longer be punished by the UK Treasury in that they will now be allowed to claim back VAT. Have the police and fire services been paid back the VAT that had been withheld? If so, how much have they been repaid?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Members will know that we welcome the VAT policy change that came into effect in March 2018. However, that did not address the issue of VAT that had already been paid to Her Majesty’s Treasury between 2013 and 2018. Having conceded the principle that it is unfair to charge VAT only to our services, the UK Government has refused to pay back £120 million to the Scottish Police Authority and about £50 million to the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. If, as a Parliament—I am looking at Conservative members specifically—we agree to lobby the UK Government to give back the money that it has taken unfairly from Scotland, we can continue to invest in the police service, in the ICT system and in keeping our communities safe.

Liam Kerr (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Police Scotland has been plagued by financial troubles since the SNP created it, despite the Scottish Conservatives getting back the VAT and bailing out the SNP. Last December, the Auditor General was clear that, if the information technology is not sorted out, the force will remain in deficit. Does the cabinet secretary think that the Auditor General was wrong?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

I always listen to what the Auditor General has to say. I also listen to what those south of the border say about the UK Government’s lack of investment in the police service. The Police Federation of England and Wales has said that it is the UK Government’s

“austerity policies which have seen police budgets”—[

Interruption

.]

The Conservatives do not like hearing this at all, but I will continue to read the quote. The Police Federation says that it is the UK Government’s

“austerity policies which have seen police budgets slashed by 19% in real terms. This is why policing”—

in England and Wales—

“is in crisis and our members are on their knees trying to keep up with the rising tide of crime with nearly 22,000 fewer officers.”

Compare that to the situation in Scotland, where we have revenue protection, an uplift of 52 per cent in the capital budget, more police officers than we inherited and lower crime rates. That puts us in a relatively good position compared with that of police services south of the border.

HMP Inverness (Capacity)

Edward Mountain (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

6. To ask the Scottish Government whether Her Majesty’s Prison Inverness exceeded prisoner capacity in 2018. (S5O-02804)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

It did. The average population during 2018 was 113 people, which is an average occupancy level of just over 120 per cent. As the member no doubt knows, HMP Inverness is a small local prison that manages the requirements of the courts across a vast geographical area. The Scottish Prison Service supports positive relationships by, wherever possible, accommodating people in the prison that is closest to their home, and that has contributed to that occupancy level.

Edward Mountain (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

When prisons exceed their capacity, two areas that suffer are rehabilitation and safety. Will the cabinet secretary confirm that enough resources are being directed at providing sufficient warders and rehabilitation support to prisoners in Inverness? Will he also tell us when the new prison in Inverness will be ready for use?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Edward Mountain makes a very important point. None of us wants to see overoccupancy in any of our prisons—indeed, I answered a question last week on this issue from, I think, Liam McArthur. The fact that we have one of the highest prison populations—if not, by some measures, the highest—is to our great shame and not something to be proud of at all.

The member is absolutely right to say that such a situation potentially has a detrimental effect on rehabilitation. I know that the SPS is very aware of that and will work hard on continuing to fund rehabilitation programmes and looking at alternatives to custody. I know that his colleagues in the United Kingdom Government recognise this, but I say genuinely to the member that short sentences do not have the same impact on rehabilitating those who commit crimes as community disposals do. As a result, I would appreciate it if, when we come forward with plans to introduce a presumption against short sentences of 12 months, he and his party would look at them with genuine open-mindedness.

As for the replacement for HMP Inverness, I will send the member some details on that. It is included in the Government’s infrastructure planning, but it is fair to say that at the moment the priorities are the female custodial estate, a replacement for Barlinnie and then a replacement for HMP Inverness.

Hate Crime Policy (Input from Women’s Organisations)

Claudia Beamish (Labour, South Scotland)

7. To ask the Scottish Government how its policy on dealing with hate crime is informed by the expertise of women’s organisations. (S5O-02805)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

There is a clear need for action to be taken to tackle gender-based prejudice and misogyny, and we are currently seeking views on how best to tackle that in Scotland as part of our consultation on hate crime legislation. As we worked to develop the proposals in our consultation, we engaged with a number of women’s organisations including—and this is not an exclusive list—Engender, Rape Crisis Scotland, Zero Tolerance and Scottish Women’s Aid.

As the member no doubt knows, the consultation was launched on 14 November 2018 and will run until 24 February. It provides a range of organisations and groups, as well as members of the public, with an opportunity to share their views and inform what is included in the new hate crime legislation, and I encourage everybody with an interest to respond.

Claudia Beamish (Labour, South Scotland)

I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer and certainly welcome the consultation. Can he give some detail on how the Government is engaging with women’s groups, especially in rural parts of the country where women might be quite isolated and might not necessarily be members of a particular grouping?

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

The member makes a hugely important point. As part of the hate crime consultation, we are holding a host of events right across the country, including in some remote and rural areas. In March, the Minister for Older People and Equalities and I will be meeting Engender and a number of other women’s organisations, and I will certainly be speaking to them about this issue. If they feel that there is a deficiency in engaging with women in remote and rural areas, I will be more than happy to see how we can address it, if it exists. However, the premise of the member’s question—that there are issues that specifically affect women in rural and remote areas—is undoubtedly right, and anything more that I as cabinet secretary can do about that, I will certainly look to do.

Accused Persons (Anonymity)

Mark McDonald (Independent, Aberdeen Donside)

8. To ask the Scottish Government what steps are in place to prevent disclosure of an accused’s identity from compromising the safety of innocent parties. (S5O-02806)

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

In addition to the provisions of the Contempt of Court Act 1981, the courts have a common-law power to restrict the reporting of proceedings where it is in the interests of justice to do so. It is for the court to decide whether to make such an order in any individual case and in appropriate cases, an interdict may also be available.

Mark McDonald (Independent, Aberdeen Donside)

The cabinet secretary will be aware that I wrote to him, the Lord Advocate and the Solicitor General about a case in my constituency in which a young victim could have been identified inadvertently as a result of the accused’s identity being disclosed. I am grateful for the support that was provided to prevent that from happening, but there other cases in which it occurs. For example, the disclosure of the accused’s identity and address opens up the potential for innocent family members to face retribution and repercussion as a result of the actions of the accused, despite the fact that those family members are innocent. Will the cabinet secretary look at the issues around identification, in particular the disclosure of address details, which can often lead to retribution and repercussion being brought to the door of family members who have played no role in any criminal proceedings?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Briefly, please, cabinet secretary.

Humza Yousaf (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Pollok)

Mark McDonald has raised an important issue. I will look at that, but I say again that it is for the courts to make decisions on whether to impose orders banning publication of matters mentioned in court.

On the wider issue, Mark McDonald is not the only member of the Scottish Parliament to have written to me about such cases. Protections are already in place, but if we can strengthen them, I will look to the Lord Advocate and other colleagues to see what else we can do. Of course, we will keep an open mind on that. We will explore whatever might be within the power of the Government, but I reiterate that much of this area is within the powers of the courts—and rightly so.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes portfolio questions. I apologise to Liam Kerr and Joan McAlpine that we have failed to reach their questions.

Mike Rumbles (Liberal Democrat, North East Scotland)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My point of order focuses on the role under the Scotland Act 1998 of the law officers—the Lord Advocate, who is present with us today, and the Solicitor General—who are privileged to be the only two unelected people who are allowed to sit in the chamber. That was written into the act so that they are here specifically to give their opinions and views directly to MSPs. In my question at portfolio question time, I asked what the Lord Advocate’s position was on the Scottish Government’s competence to authorise another referendum on Scottish independence without another section 30 order. I did not ask what his advice to the Scottish Government was; I specifically asked for his advice to MSPs here in the chamber. As I have said, under the Scotland Act 1998 they are here for that purpose. I find it particularly annoying that the Lord Advocate is present but has taken the decision not to answer my question.

I would like to know from you, Presiding Officer, whether it is appropriate for the Lord Advocate to sit in the Parliament, in the privileged position that he has under the Scotland Act 1998, and not to address members directly, as was the purpose of the provision in the Scotland Act 1998 in the first place?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I

thank Mr Rumbles for making that point of order. However, as is set out in rule 13.7 of the standing orders, with a few exceptions that do not apply in this instance,

“oral questions may be answered by any member of the Scottish Government or a junior Scottish Minister”.

As the member is aware, oral questions are addressed to the Scottish Government, as his question was, and it is for it to decide who attends to answer each question.

Mike Rumbles (Liberal Democrat, North East Scotland)

With respect, Presiding Officer, I understand all that and I accept entirely the position that you have just outlined. However, my question goes further than the one that I asked earlier today. I understand that, under the standing orders, the Scottish Government can choose to do that. My question is on a more fundamental point, which is very important for the Parliament: why has the Lord Advocate, who is here by virtue of his privileged position under the Scotland Act 1998, chosen not to answer directly the questions that he is here to answer?

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I am afraid that I answered your point of order clearly. The position is that that is in the standing orders. You may be dissatisfied with that, but those are the rules of the Parliament.

I must move on to the next item of business, which is a statement. I will give members on the Government front bench a moment to take up their places.

Review of Personal and Social Education

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale)

The next item of business is a statement by John Swinney on a review of personal and social education. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The health and wellbeing of children and young people in our schools is central to our ambition to achieve excellence and equity for all in a high-performing education system. Personal and social education is a key element of that approach and it must be firmly aligned to the curriculum for excellence. Children and young people must be equipped with the skills and knowledge that they need to make their own decisions.

Equity for all can be achieved only through an inclusive education system. Scotland’s inclusive approach celebrates diversity and allows all children and young people to develop an understanding and recognition of difference. That contributes to the development of an increasingly inclusive, compassionate and equal society. A core principle of personal and social education is to provide young people with the requisite knowledge, skills and resilience to fulfil their potential.

I am very pleased to announce that the review of personal and social education has been completed and I have accepted all the recommendations of the review. I believe that the recommendations will strengthen the delivery of personal and social education in our schools and will support our young people to reach their full potential.

The recommendations will further embed our ambitions for prevention and early intervention in our schools to provide every young person with the opportunity to grow, achieve and succeed as individuals.

Before I speak about the details of the review, I take this opportunity to thank the Education and Skills Committee for investigating the main issues in relation to the content and delivery of PSE. The committee’s report, “Let’s Talk About Personal and Social Education” helped to establish the focus of the review. I am also grateful to Christina McKelvie MSP for her role during her time as convener of the Parliament’s Equalities and Human Rights Committee and for the committee’s report, “It is not Cool to be Cruel: Prejudice-based bullying and harassment of children and young people in schools”, which also highlighted the importance of high-quality personal and social education.

I take this opportunity to thank everyone who contributed to the review, especially the young people whose insightful contributions played a huge part in it. Their time and contributions were extremely valuable in shaping the final report and recommendations.

Personal and social education is a key component of the curriculum for excellence. It should support children and young people to gain the knowledge, skills and attributes needed for life in the 21st century, including skills for learning, life and work. Good and relevant personal and social education is a major factor in providing the foundations of successful learning and supporting schools to close the attainment gap.

Personal and social education should be designed to enable children and young people to develop, learn about their rights and responsibilities, help them stay healthy and safe and prepare them for the challenges and opportunities that they will experience.

The review includes 16 recommendations outlining how we can, in co-operation with our partners, improve the delivery of personal and social education to provide all young people with the learning experience that they need and want. The recommendations have been informed by a 20-month review process that involved reviewing existing resources, a thematic inspection of PSE delivery in 55 schools and early learning centres and an extensive six-month engagement programme with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, local authority representatives, third sector organisations, faith groups and young people.

The thematic inspection undertaken by Education Scotland was a significant element in the review process and I am grateful to the inspection team for completing the inspection in a short time. The thematic inspection highlighted key strengths of PSE delivery, as well as areas for improvement, both of which were crucial elements of a thorough and extensive engagement with a range of stakeholders, providing the basis for the suite of recommendations that will strengthen PSE delivery and prepare children and young people for learning, work and life.

The priority and place of PSE in the curriculum and the role of schools’ senior teams in promoting PSE’s importance in our schools is crucial. I am therefore pleased to announce that the Government and our key partners will co-produce a new PSE toolkit to enhance PSE delivery at all stages of education. It will illustrate models of good practice, provide support and resources for teachers on the delivery of PSE and provide models for involving children and young people in the design and delivery of PSE.

It is vital that PSE provides children and young people with the right learning at the right stage and in an appropriate manner. The Scottish Government and Education Scotland will produce advice and guidance on approaches to monitoring young people’s progression in PSE to support schools in providing learning that equips our young people with the knowledge, skills and resilience that they need.

To provide support to teachers and pupils on mental wellbeing, new guidance on the spectrum of mental health and wellbeing services that are available will be produced. That will complement the work that we are taking forward to provide access to school counsellors and enable schools to complement existing provision with additional services and share effective practice that is already delivering improvements in our schools.

Throughout the review, the issue of consent and how it is taught was raised. That is an important aspect of personal and social education. Our young people are facing a number of influences on what is appropriate and inappropriate, especially from online resources. As I announced in November, we will update the existing statutory guidance available to schools on relationships, sexual health and parenthood to ensure that consent education is stage and age appropriate, that it focuses on the issues relevant to young people and that it provides support and resource to our teachers on issues such as sexual harassment and online influences, linking with the work that we are taking forward to deliver lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender inclusive education in our schools.

The senior phase at school is a critical time in which we prepare our young people for life after school. Young people themselves told us, through targeted engagement, that PSE was not meeting their needs and preparing them with the necessary life skills and knowledge that are vital if the pioneers and leaders of tomorrow are to be equipped and ready for the challenges ahead. We will therefore establish a senior phase PSE mentoring programme to enable pupils to design and deliver PSE learning that is relevant to them and that focuses on the issues and knowledge required for the next phase in life. We will also provide support to teachers, through the PSE toolkit, on where they can access support for pupils preparing for life after school.

As well as preparing our children and young people, it is critical that we provide the right level of support and resource for our teachers, to ensure the consistent delivery of PSE in all our schools. We will therefore develop a suite of learning resources that promote a focus on the key issues identified by young people during the review process: life skills; personal development; planning for choices and change; relationships; sexual health; and parenthood. Key partners in career-long professional learning, as well as the third sector, will be instrumental in helping us to deliver this recommendation.

I am also acutely aware, through the review process, of some of the high case-loads that pastoral and guidance teachers are having to deal with, which is having an effect on the support being offered to our young people. I want to improve that situation and to allow teachers to deliver the support and help to young people that they want. The PSE toolkit will deliver that ambition by providing our hugely important pastoral guidance staff with additional resource, a reduction in the bureaucracy that they face and details on evaluated good practice models. Additionally, I believe that our work with local government partners and the teaching unions will enable us to take steps to highlight the vital and rewarding role of pastoral guidance teachers as a career pathway. It is not just the existing teaching profession that we need to equip with the necessary skills and resource, but the teachers of tomorrow. That is why we will work with the General Teaching Council for Scotland to update the standards for professional registration to ensure that the importance of PSE is recognised, and that it is a skill expected of all newly qualified teachers.

There is a great deal of strength in our education system and I am determined to ensure that the delivery of personal and social education is making a difference to the lives of children and young people in Scotland. I am sure that all members here want, like me, a Scotland where children and young people form healthy relationships and value diversity; where everybody should be recognised and respected for who they are individually; where our children and young people can grow up in a safe environment in which their rights and needs are respected and protected; where every child and young person is supported to be who they want to be and treated equally in order to enjoy equal chances and choices in all aspects of their lives; and where every child and young person is valued for the contribution that they make to our society and to communities.

One of the young people quoted in an online survey said:

“PSE is really good for learning about everything you might encounter in life ... It’s very empowering and PSE is a very good and vital subject.”

That is the experience that we want for all our children and young people in order to give them the skills and knowledge to prepare them for learning, work and life. The range of actions to strengthen the delivery of personal and social education that I have announced today reaffirm our commitment to making that a reality for all children and young people, which will make a real difference to their lives in Scotland.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues raised.

Elizabeth Smith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Yesterday, on several news channels, we heard about the disturbing circumstances that led to the death of teenager Molly Russell. In a very brave interview, her father spoke emotionally about how social media has the potential to damage a young person’s life, irrespective of the quality of the guidance provided at home or in school.

In the context of the cabinet secretary’s comments about working with a wide range of stakeholders, I ask what engagement the Scottish Government has had with the social media industry to complement the work that is being done at United Kingdom level to ensure that online safety is a central part of PSE in the toolkit that the cabinet secretary described.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The Scottish Government has discussions with a range of interested parties about the issues around social media. It is important that we focus our work in personal and social education on equipping young people with resilience and the capacity to make judgments around the handling and use of social media, to ensure that they are suitably equipped and protected when dealing with some of the potential challenges that come with it.

Personal and social education is implicit in the ethos of education. I want to make sure that the good practice that I see in schools to encourage the nurturing of good relationships is deployed not only in the context of school activity, but enables young people to think about their contribution to the world of social media and the impact that their actions can have if they are not appropriately set.

We are taking actions that are designed to ensure that in an ever-changing world—which is changing at a faster pace than any of us have seen before—young people are equipped with the essential attributes of resilience to enable them to manage those challenges. Some of that will come from personal and social education and some from the wider impact of curriculum for excellence, which is focused entirely on the objective of ensuring that young people are equipped for modern life and supported in meeting its challenges, some of which may present themselves through social media.

Iain Gray (Labour, East Lothian)

I thank the cabinet secretary for early sight of his statement. We agree with him that schools are very much about the health and wellbeing of our young people, their values and social development and, indeed, progress towards inclusivity and equality in wider society. Therefore, the review is important and the acceptance of its recommendations is welcome.

However, it is now almost two years since the Education and Skills Committee report that Mr Swinney says provided the focus for that review, and it is another two years before he expects delivery. When does he expect to bring his implementation plan to Parliament, and the updated statutory guidance on relationships and sexual health to be completed? Mr Swinney also acknowledged the pressure that there is on guidance teachers, which he says will be addressed by a PSE toolkit. Does he not agree that it would be better addressed by having more teachers—specifically, more guidance teachers—and how will he try to deliver that?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I am signalling to Parliament the considered way in which the Government has addressed this important issue. It is important that we take the time to put in place and implement the right measures. We are moving to the implementation phase, which will take place over the next two years to ensure that we make the required progress on a staged basis.

I expect the revised guidance on relationships, sexual health and parenthood to be launched at the Scottish learning festival in September 2019. It is currently being piloted in 40 schools around the country. We want it to be piloted effectively, so that it can be adapted to ensure that it can be implemented widely in our education system. If we can do that on a shorter timescale, we will, but I want to be sure that the material that we put in place meets the needs of the teaching profession and of children and young people.

The PSE toolkit is designed to be a helpful addition to the resources that are available to guidance teachers. It will assist them in identifying best practice and deploying it to the best of their ability.

On Mr Gray’s general point about the number of teachers, I say to him that the number of teachers is, of course, rising. Mr Gray knows that. It has been rising for the past number of years and it is at the highest level that it has been at since 2010. We are making progress on increasing the number of teachers and, obviously, the steps that we have taken and the investment that the Government has made are helping that process.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Can I have short questions, please?

Ruth Maguire (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

Will the cabinet secretary outline how this year’s programme for government commitment to invest in school counselling services will assist in the delivery of PSE?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As Ruth Maguire will know, the Government set out in the programme for government the commitments that we are making in relation to the roll-out of counsellors in schools. As part of implementation of the programme for government, the first part of that work—putting in place counsellors in secondary schools—will be deployed. Dialogue is under way with local authorities about the most appropriate means of undertaking that to supplement the resources that are available in schools to provide the support that young people require.

This morning, I visited Queen Anne high school in Dunfermline, in Fife, and saw at first hand the very integrated and focused support that the school has put in place to provide assistance to young people. It draws together a range of expertise from a number of different disciplines but, fundamentally, it is child focused and child centred. The addition of the mental health counsellors will support that process and enable a broader range of skills to be available to be deployed to support young people in our schools.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I respectfully ask for shorter answers in order to try to get everybody in.

Oliver Mundell (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

What involvement have parents and carers had to date in development of the toolkit? What consultation and support will be given to help them to reinforce the messages at home?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As part of all our work, we engage widely within Scotland—that is what takes time—and we have engaged with parental representatives as part of this process. It is very important, as we take the next steps, that we take care—particularly in relation to some of the issues on relationships—to actively engage parents in the process, so that they are comfortable with the approach that is being taken and can support it with some of the wise guidance that is offered within the home.

As Mr Mundell will know, we attach the greatest significance to parental engagement, and my view is that that needs to be to the fore in taking forward the next stages of this work.

Gail Ross (Scottish National Party, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

Following the incredible commitment and success of the time for inclusive education campaign, how will the principles of the campaign and the inclusion of LGBT rights and issues be delivered through the PSE reforms?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

As I announced to Parliament before Christmas, we are embarking on taking forward inclusive education. That message lies at the heart of the statement that I have given in Parliament today and at the heart of the thinking and the ethos behind personal and social education. We will ensure that the implementation of inclusive education is right at the heart of personal and social education and that the commitment to the aspirations of the TIE campaign that I expressed in my ministerial statement to Parliament are reflected and practised in our schools.

Mary Fee (Labour, West Scotland)

I welcome the announcement of guidance on mental health and wellbeing services to complement the previous announcement regarding counsellors in schools. Will the cabinet secretary tell Parliament when the first new mental health counsellor will be in a school? Will the implementation of the new counsellors be targeted at certain areas or schools?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

We are working with individual local authorities to take that activity forward. I would expect the first of the mental health counsellors to be in schools during the forthcoming financial year; provision has been made for that in the budget. Some local authorities and individual schools have different approaches to the provision of mental health support, so we will work in a complementary fashion with existing provision, but I expect roll-out to commence during 2019-20.

Ross Greer (Green, West Scotland)

I thank the Government for the actions to which it has committed today. The review that led to the report was the first thing that I asked for after my election to this Parliament.

Given that the campaign to fix personal and social education has, at all points, been led by young people, I ask that the PSE delivery and implementation group includes young people. I recommend members of the Scottish Youth Parliament as appropriate representatives.

I ask the Government to confirm that workplace rights and associated skills are included in the life skills that are considered essential as part of PSE and that, as such, they will be reflected in resources and guidance—

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That was two questions. I liked the first one okay.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

On Mr Greer’s substantive point, it is essential that we hear the voices of young people in all aspects of the work that we take forward in the development of education policy. At all stages of the process, I want to hear the views and voices of young people. That will be the case in the group that we establish to take forward the activity that we are talking about.

On Mr Greer’s second point, on workplace rights, it is important that PSE remains relevant to the changing times in which we live; it must equip young people with a knowledge and understanding of the circumstances that they will face. I mentioned that I visited Queen Anne high school this morning; there, guidance services are provided alongside work by Skills Development Scotland, in recognition of the proximity to the developing Scotland’s young workforce agenda. I think that the issues will be adequately covered in the approach that we take.

Tavish Scott (Liberal Democrat, Shetland Islands)

If we are to improve personal and social education across Scotland, I hope that the cabinet secretary recognises the importance of school guidance teams having a range of skills, qualifications and attributes. In that context, does he understand the case that has been made for including youth workers and people with youth work qualifications in guidance teams, to achieve the essential reforms that are so necessary?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

I agree entirely with that. It is interesting to look at youth workers’ achievements in reaching young people who might be difficult to reach through what we regard as the traditional education structures and in enabling those young people to continue to participate. The broadest range of skills will be relevant to help us in this work, and in my view there is a strong and significant role to be played by youth workers in the exercise.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

Will the cabinet secretary set out how the new PSE toolkit, the announcement of which is welcome, will help to reduce the workload and bureaucracy that have been a concern for teachers?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Part of the approach that I have been taking has been about encouraging more collaboration in the education system, so that elements of the good practice that undoubtedly exists in different parts of Scotland are shared more widely and individual practitioners do not have to develop materials and resources from scratch. It is about supporting good models of teaching delivery around the country.

That is exactly what the PSE toolkit will do. It will help the people who are involved in delivering personal and social education by providing a rich set of resources, which will assist practitioners in their work. As part of our general approach to trying to reduce the workload of the teaching profession by encouraging collaboration and other measures, steps have been taken, and the PSE toolkit will help in that respect.

Annie Wells (Conservative, Glasgow)

I note the Scottish Government’s commitment to work with the General Teaching Council for Scotland to update the standards for professional registration. Will the cabinet secretary say when the updated standards will be in place? Is it the Scottish Government’s opinion that additional teacher training should be introduced in relation to the revised PSE?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Initial teacher education must take due account of the steps that we are taking on PSE. That is one element of the process; the other element is the emphasis on continuous professional learning. Particularly with a theme such as personal and social education, as we try to maintain its relevance to the world that young people face, there will be a constant need for practitioners to undertake continuous professional development. Ensuring that PSE is central to the approach in initial teacher education and is recognised in continuous professional learning gives us a good foundation for our dialogue with the General Teaching Council for Scotland on ensuring that professional updates take account of these important topics.

Clare Adamson (Scottish National Party, Motherwell and Wishaw)

We know that personal and social education is an important factor in encouraging positive behaviour and healthy relationships in young people. Will the cabinet secretary expand on how the reviewed guidelines on consent education will be rolled out in the PSE curriculum and how quickly that might happen?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

The material on that topic is currently being piloted across 40 schools in Scotland. We will look at the experience of piloting those resources to make sure that we can guarantee that they are appropriate for use. As I indicated to Oliver Mundell, we have to take into account parental understanding of the steps that we are taking and ensure that the roll-out of education about consent is age and stage appropriate for individual children and young people.

The importance of that cannot be overstated, because we have to make sure that young people are given the most substantive and thoughtful support to enable them to come to the right judgments about consent and the formation of relationships. These are issues of enormous significance and concern in our society, and we must make sure that we get the approaches correct before we roll them out across the whole education system.

Johann Lamont (Labour, Glasgow)

Given the often very sensitive issues that are considered, in my experience PSE classes are run with small groups rather than full classes. What action is the cabinet secretary taking to ensure that there is agreement not only on the approach to PSE, but on how it is delivered, and how will he ensure that sufficient resource is available to make personal and social education meaningful for all young people?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

A significant amount of professional judgment will have to be deployed to address the point that Johann Lamont makes about the environment and circumstances in which personal and social education can be delivered successfully. That judgment is best left to individual professionals, and the Government is trying to ensure that we work with partners to equip those practitioners with a range of materials and approaches that will support them in those efforts. I hope that the announcements that I have made today will help to structure the approach to allow individual practitioners in individual schools around the country to make those judgments.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

Will education on organ and tissue donation be included in the curriculum for personal and social education and, if so, what resources will be made available to the appropriate designated education providers?

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, Perthshire North)

Emma Harper has asked me a question of a very specific nature about the content of the teaching materials. I will have to come back to her on that specific point, but individual teachers will make judgments about which particular topics and themes should be covered, within the framework that we put forward, to illustrate these important questions.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I thank members for their succinct questions. That concludes questions on the statement.

We will have a slight pause before we move to the next item of business

.

Clinical Waste Services

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

The next item of business is a statement by Jeane Freeman on clinical waste services. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I am grateful for this opportunity to update members on the current situation on clinical waste services for the national health service in Scotland, and to set out the action that the Scottish Government has taken to support both NHS Scotland and those staff who lost their jobs after Healthcare Environmental Services Ltd ceased its business operations in December last year.

As members are aware, there has in recent weeks been considerable interest in Scotland and England in clinical waste services to the health service and, in particular, in Healthcare Environmental Services. Until recently, that company, which is based in Shotts, operated contracts with national health service boards and trusts across the country.

Clinical waste is a niche sector that requires specialist equipment, facilities and staff to manage the whole process from collection through to transportation and storage and on to final disposal and incineration. Since 2009, Healthcare Environmental Services has provided those services to our NHS. However, following concerns raised by NHS England about significant backlogs of waste being stored and enforcement notices being placed on HES sites in England, we understood that there was the potential for disruption to services in Scotland.

In August 2018, officials from the Department of Health and Social Care in England contacted the Scottish Government, raising concerns about the amount of clinical waste collected from NHS England sites and being stored at Healthcare Environmental Services sites in England. The volume of waste stored and being reported by the Environment Agency was about 700 to 800 tonnes, some of which breached storage conditions and/or exceeded the maximum storage times.

In October 2018, 15 NHS trusts in England terminated contracts with HES, with more reporting missed or late collections. At that time, HES sites in Scotland were not in breach of any environmental permits, licences or storage limits. However, on 12 September 2018 the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, as part of routine monitoring and inspection activities, issued two enforcement notices to HES relating to the tracking and management of waste; two further enforcement notices relating to the storage of waste were issued on 11 December.

The Scottish Government, NHS Scotland and SEPA were monitoring the situation closely, and were in close contact with authorities in England. Given the serious nature of the emerging situation, the Scottish Government directed NHS National Services Scotland to ensure that a national contingency plan, building on local board arrangements, would be ready for use in the event of any disruption to NHS waste collection services in Scotland. NSS was in contact with HES during that period, to ensure that HES was able to deliver its contractual obligations.

The company repeatedly provided assurance that it could meet those contract obligations, but on 7 December 2018 HES advised NHS boards in Scotland that it was unable to continue to provide clinical waste services with immediate effect. As required in the contract terms and conditions, HES was given up to 20 days to resume normal service, but the company failed to do so. The company gave notice that it had ceased trading from 27 December 2018.

Let me be clear that it was the company that breached its contracts—with 18 NHS boards—leaving Scotland’s accident and emergency departments, our hospitals, community health centres, general practitioner practices and dentists without essential clinical waste services.

With the planning work already in place, full contingency arrangements were operationalised across NHS Scotland to ensure that boards, GPs, dentists and others received the service. The contingency arrangements continue, and involve a range of companies in Scotland and across the United Kingdom working with NHS Scotland staff.

NHS National Services Scotland and NHS boards are closely monitoring local and national arrangements, and have acted quickly to resolve any emerging issues. Contingency arrangements are also subject to robust checks by SEPA and the Department for Transport, to ensure that all regulatory requirements are met.

Our priority throughout has been to ensure that measures are in place, so that NHS Scotland can continue to receive clinical waste services and public safety is assured. There have been no reports that patient care has been affected, or public safety compromised, and we are working to ensure that that remains the case. My thanks go to those staff who are working to support those arrangements.

Contingency measures, and ultimately maintaining NHS services, come at a cost. The Scottish Government has provided £1.4 million towards initial contingency planning, and NSS is leading on managing contingency arrangements on behalf of health boards. Under the terms and conditions of contract, health boards are entitled to reclaim costs incurred from HES, and will seek to do so.

The process for a new national contract for all NHS clinical waste management services in Scotland started in 2017, with tenders invited in 2018. The process is nearing completion. Final contract details and an implementation plan are being agreed with Tradebe Healthcare Ltd and should be concluded by the end of this month. The new contract is effective from 1 April this year for up to 10 years and has an estimated value of £100 million. My apologies, Presiding Officer, I believe that that figure should be £10 million.

The introduction of a single national contract that covers all health boards will further improve how NHS waste is managed and offer a range of community, educational and employment benefits. A new single national contract will bring various benefits to NHS boards and communities over the next 10 years and we are in a good position going forward. However, significant issues that are outside of ensuring NHS provision are yet to be resolved. Those issues relate directly to health environmental services and include supporting former employees—work that is being led by the Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills—and maintaining environmental standards at HES sites in Shotts and Dundee; that work is being led by the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform, with support from SEPA.

I know that the thoughts of members across the chamber are with the employees who lost their jobs at Christmas. This is, without question, a very difficult time for them and their families. The Scottish Government has provided and promotes a range of support to help people to find alternative employment and access redundancy payments. In November last year, we offered HES workforce support for its employees, which was not accepted until 27 December 2018. We also offered support to more than 125 employees at an event at the Salvation Army centre in Shotts on 3 and 4 January 2019, and in Dundee on 10 January. Feedback from that event suggests that a number of employees have already secured new work. Members will be pleased to know that, of the 262 staff across Scotland and England who are entitled to redundancy payments, 244 have now received the payments to which they are entitled from the redundancy payments service. The RPS will now try to reclaim those costs from the company.

Former employees, who have set up an action group called @ help healthcare, had a constructive meeting last week with the Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills at which a range of issues was discussed. The group has written directly to its former employers to ask them to do the right thing and pay staff the wages that are owed for December. The Minister for Business, Fair Work and Skills also wrote to the managing director to seek agreement to approach the company’s bankers on the same issue. However, that request has been refused.

As already stated, HES was subject to four environmental enforcement actions in Scotland and several more in England. It is, therefore, essential that SEPA continues to monitor the sites in Shotts and Dundee to ensure that there is no risk to the public. SEPA also continues to seek regulatory compliance from HES to ensure that the sites are cleared safely and that all waste is disposed of appropriately, should that become necessary. There is, at present, no significant environmental risk and no risk to the wellbeing of local communities.

Scotland’s health services were placed at risk as a result of HES breaching its contract. Contingency arrangements that were developed in anticipation of such an eventuality—in consultation with NSS, SEPA and a range of other partners—ensured that there was no disruption to front-line services. The Scottish Government will continue to support former employees to access the money that they are owed and the benefits to which they may be entitled. However, that relies heavily on the co-operation of the company’s directors. SEPA will continue to monitor the Shotts and Dundee sites to safeguard the public and local communities, and will take enforcement action, should that be required.

I reiterate my thanks to those who are involved in ensuring that collections of clinical waste from NHS sites around Scotland continue and that front-line patient services remain uninterrupted.

My thanks and best wishes go to former employees of HES, who are being supported at this difficult time for them and their families.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Cabinet secretary, I know that you understand how important it is that members get the right figure in relation to the new contract that you mentioned. Will you confirm that figure for the chamber before we go any further?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

Yes. I apologise—it was a typing mistake that, in my proofreading, I did not spot. The figure should be £10 million.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I presume that that is now clear to everyone.

The cabinet secretary will now take questions on the issues that were raised in her statement, for which I will allow about 20 minutes. I invite members who wish to ask questions to press their request-to-speak buttons.

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Lothian)

There are many unanswered questions that the Scottish National Party must answer today. What steps have been taken to protect and train NHS staff who are currently tasked with handling hazardous clinical waste in our hospitals? That issue was not mentioned in this afternoon’s statement.

Will the cabinet secretary confirm that, under the proposals that she outlined today, all Scottish clinical waste will now need to be transported to England for incineration? What will be the additional cost to Scottish taxpayers? The cabinet secretary said that that would be £10 million, but it might be closer to £100 million by the time that the fiasco is cleared up.

Will the cabinet secretary confirm that all hazardous clinical waste is now being transported in vehicles that are designed to transport such waste and that all those vehicles display “Hazardous load” signage?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

If there is a fiasco, it is not one of this Government’s making. The fact that those services have continued is thanks to the anticipatory measures in the contingency plan. Any break in services was caused by a private sector company failing to honour its contracts—it is important that we understand that. The Scottish Government did not cause or create this situation.

On protecting and training NHS staff, they have always had an involvement in the collection and preparation for onward collection of clinical waste, and that continues. Where additional measures have been asked of staff, boards have risk assessed those measures and have discussed them in the partnership forums that exist in boards, which is where discussions with staff and trade unions take place. In the Inverness case in which porters were injured as a consequence of their involvement in handling clinical waste, the NHS Highland board looked at the matter quickly, undertook measures to ensure that it could not happen again and employed an additional member of staff to assist in such work.

Waste is, indeed, transported south of the border for incineration, as was the case prior to the contract being broken by HES, with the exception of—in the latter stages of its contract—the incineration sites that it had in Shotts. As HES has ceased trading, those facilities are obviously not available under the interim arrangements. All the transportation must meet the regulatory requirements of SEPA and the Department for Transport. NSS is responsible for ensuring that the required standards are met, which is the case at this point.

Monica Lennon (Labour, Central Scotland)

When the UK Government convened a Cabinet Office briefing room A—COBRA—meeting, we all feared that this clinical waste scandal might affect the NHS in Scotland, the workforce of Healthcare Environmental Services Ltd and our communities. Devastatingly, those workers, who kept our NHS operating, were dumped by their bosses at Christmas without pay or notice.

The contingency planning has not benefited those workers. NHS boards continued to put money into HES’s bank account, but, rather than staff being paid what they are owed in wages, people have been left to rely on food banks.

When did the Government know that the company was in serious trouble, and what pre-emptive steps did it take to protect the workforce? What is the cost of the contingency plans to health boards, and when were boards advised to stop paying HES? Given that the NHS retains a duty of care for the stockpiled waste, what negotiations are taking place with HES and other relevant parties over the future of the sites at Shotts and Dundee?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

There were a number of questions; I hope that I have them all, but I ask the member to let me know if I do not, please.

I repeat that we are in this situation because a private sector company has breached its contract. With regard to the NHS continuing to put money into the bank account of HES, NHS Scotland paid money that was owed for services that were delivered up to the point when HES ceased trading and breached its contract. That is perfectly right. It had a bill, it was due to pay it, and it paid it.

It is very difficult to have discussions and negotiations with the company about the future of the sites at Dundee and Shotts because it has ceased trading but has not put itself into insolvency. That is part of the real difficulty that the employees face. They are owed their December wages. As I said in my statement, my colleague Mr Hepburn has attempted to intervene to ensure that they are paid those wages, but we need the company’s permission to speak to its bank, which has been refused.

The Government acted and, indeed, offered pay support to the company—I think that I said in my statement in November—but that was not accepted until 27 December. We cannot just walk into a site in that way; we do not have those direct powers, nor should we. Such matters get resolved by co-operation and discussion, but, if the other party will not co-operate and discuss, we are a bit stuck.

With regard to NHS Scotland and the continued safe removal and disposal of clinical waste, I have outlined that we took the necessary pre-emptive measures by ensuring that we had a contingency plan. At the point at which there were clear difficulties between NHS England and the company, we were able to operationalise those contingency plans. Despite the company having assured us on 7 December that it could meet its contract obligations and then, on 20 December, telling us that it could not, in a very short space of time we moved to do that.

I have probably missed one of the member’s questions. If one of her colleagues is going to ask me a question, perhaps they could pick that up for her and I will be sure to answer it.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The first two questions and answers have understandably taken a long time, as there was a lot of content. We will have to be a bit quicker if we are going to get through all the questions.

Alison Johnstone (Green, Lothian)

On 12 September, SEPA issued two enforcement notices, which were followed by a further two notices on 11 December. Within a couple of weeks, the company gave notice and ceased trading. Are we to understand that the Government and its agencies were completely unaware of the impending crisis? How frequent were SEPA’s inspections up to the point at which the situation became critical?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I have never said that the Government was completely unaware. If we had been, we would not have taken the necessary steps to know that there were difficulties between the company and health trusts in NHS England, and we would not have taken the necessary steps to ensure that, should there have been a difficulty in fulfilling the contract in Scotland, we had contingency plans to ensure that clinical waste would continue to be uplifted, stored and disposed of in a way that protected patients and public safety.

As I said in my statement, as soon as it became clear that there were difficulties south of the border, we understood that there was the potential for problems in Scotland. However, at that point, there was no significant difficulty. SEPA, as part of its normal inspection process—I am happy to check exactly what the frequency of the inspections was over the contract period and advise Alison Johnstone of that number—issued those two enforcement notices initially and then, subsequently, issued two further enforcement notices. Of course, a company has time to comply with such notices. However, on 7 December, the company advised us that it could not meet its contract obligations. We gave it the 20 days to which it was entitled to get back to a place where it could do so. However, on 27 December, it advised us that it had ceased trading.

Alex Cole-Hamilton (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh Western)

HES also held the contract for the disposal of animal remains and clinical waste from Edinburgh zoo, which is in my constituency. Are there still animal remains at the Shotts site? What other non-NHS contracts did the company serve? What contingency is being offered to those companies to facilitate the safe disposal of their clinical waste?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

My understanding—I will check this and return to Mr Cole-Hamilton on the matter—is that, where there is clinical waste for disposal, whether it is of animal or human origin, the contingency arrangements are picking up on that obligation.

I do not have any information about any other non-NHS contracts that the company had. I do not know whether the Government holds that information, as it would be company information. I am, therefore, unable to give Mr Cole-Hamilton that information this afternoon.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

We are more than halfway through the session. I have a little bit of extra time, but not much. I ask for short questions and answers, please.

Fulton MacGregor (Scottish National Party, Coatbridge and Chryston)

The cabinet secretary will be aware of reports of a build-up of clinical waste at the Coatbridge health centre in my constituency. I raised the matter in a supplementary question in the chamber last week. The local paper, the

Airdrie & Coatbridge Advertiser

, has since highlighted the issue again, and the matter has had wide circulation. Will the arrangements that are being put in place prevent any future build-up of waste?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

My understanding is that collections have returned to normal and are being monitored on a daily basis by NSS. There was a back-up of clinical waste at NHS sites, which was due to a diminution of service from HES prior to its ceasing trading and before the new arrangements were put in place. Of course, in some instances, those new arrangements took a little bit of time to bed in. However, my understanding is that, now, collections have returned to normal, the backlog has been cleared, and the situation is being monitored on a daily basis.

Brian Whittle (Conservative, South Scotland)

Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform, Roseanna Cunningham, estimated that the total clearance and disposal cost would be around £250,000. I note from the health secretary’s statement that the Scottish Government has provided £1.4 million towards the initial contingency planning. With that in mind, is she confident that the costs will not continue to rise exponentially?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

As Mr Whittle rightly says, the £1.4 million is towards the initial contingency planning, and NSS has now taken over the management of the contingency arrangements. Of course, what that means is that our boards are no longer paying HES for services that they are not receiving. When we get to the end of the contingency period and the new contract starts, we will be able to rebalance the funding between what our boards would have normally paid to HES for the months in which there have been contingency arrangements and the amount of money that NSS has paid out to cover those contingency arrangements. At that point, I will know whether there is a gap between what would normally have been paid and what we have had to pay for contingency arrangements.

Of course, contingency arrangements carry additional cost, because they involve bringing in trailers and securing additional storage facilities and so on to ensure that the service can continue to be delivered. When we get to the end of the contingency period and the new contract begins with a new contractor, I will be able to give Mr Whittle and other members the exact cost of the contingency arrangements in full and I will be able to say how that is balanced against what our boards would normally have paid to HES, and whether there is a deficit between those two figures.

Alex Neil (Scottish National Party, Airdrie and Shotts)

As the constituency member for Shotts, I thank the Scottish Government for the tremendous help that it has given so far to the workers who have lost their jobs at Hassockrigg in Shotts. However, I wonder whether the Government can give further assistance. My colleague Neil Gray and I have brought in specialist lawyers and have found that, if people go through the normal employment tribunal process, it will take six to nine months before they get their wages and other payments that they are due. Can pressure be brought to bear to speed up the process?

I also have a specific question for the health secretary. When the new contract is being awarded, will she put pressure on the new contractor to give priority to recruiting former HES workers in carrying out the new contract, particularly as the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations do not apply in this case?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

On the first part of Mr Neil’s question, I will ask my colleague Mr Hepburn to respond in writing on whether the Government might do anything further to insist that employees receive the December wages that they are due, which I believe is what Mr Neil was asking about. I do not want to intervene in another portfolio and talk about something that I do not know anything about, so Mr Hepburn will respond.

On the second part of the question, which was important, NSS, in conjunction with Tradebe Healthcare, is arranging for an information and recruitment day to be held in Shotts in the next few days and, when we have the exact date for that, I will ensure that all relevant members, including Mr Neil and other colleagues, are aware of that date, and the employees of the former company will certainly be informed. The new company that will take over the contract once all negotiations are concluded, which will be by the end of this month, will hold that information and recruitment day. I hope that that gives Mr Neil and, more importantly, those who have lost their jobs with HES some assurance.

Jenny Marra (Labour, North East Scotland)

I back Alex Neil’s call for no stone to be left unturned to ensure that the workers get the money that they are due. Workers in Dundee are waiting for wages that they are due, too.

The health secretary talked about the cost of contingency plans to health boards. Is the Scottish Government pursuing HES’s insurers to find out whether the public purse can recover some of that cost?

I have another brief question, just to clarify the cabinet secretary’s answer to Ms Lennon. She talked about the 10-year contract being worth £10 million. We are a little unsure of that, because we understand from the press that three health boards made a payment of approximately £1 million for the past three months.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Could you speed up, please, Ms Marra?

Jenny Marra (Labour, North East Scotland)

The figure of £10 million that the health secretary gave does not really stack up, so it would be helpful if she could clarify that.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I clarify that some members will not get to ask questions because of the time taken by their colleagues.

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

I apologise to members for causing considerable confusion about how much the contract is worth—it is £10 million a year for 10 years, so it is £100 million. I hope that that clarifies that for the record.

On leaving no stone unturned, I believe that the Government is doing everything that it can. Mr Hepburn has advised me that, as well as seeking the company’s permission to contact its bank, which was refused, he has now written to the bank on behalf of the employees to see whether the bank can assist in ensuring that they receive the moneys to which they are entitled.

On Ms Marra’s question about HES insurers, we are seeking legal advice on that and on a range of matters relating to the contract. I am sure that she appreciates that there are three portfolios involved, from the perspectives of the environment, the employees and the business, and the NHS, which is my interest and concern. We are looking at all ways in which we may assist in order to find a resolution of the matter.

Emma Harper (Scottish National Party, South Scotland)

I welcome the robust contingency plans that NHS Scotland has developed. Can the cabinet secretary confirm that those measures will remain in place until a new contract begins and that the new contract will, at the very minimum, adhere to those standards?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

The contingency arrangements will remain in place until we are confident that the national contract is fully operational. The new national framework agreement includes an updated specification, meets the Scottish Government’s current environmental targets and provides greater visibility of waste streams, locally and nationally. Using a single contract for the whole of Scotland’s health service is exactly what we should be doing, rather than using a series of individual board contracts.

Alasdair Allan (Scottish National Party, Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

Given what she has said about the bank and other matters, is the cabinet secretary satisfied with the level of engagement and co-operation that the Scottish Government has received from HES since this situation first came to light?

Jeane Freeman (Scottish National Party, Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley)

No, I am not. I do not think that anyone is satisfied. The skilled and experienced employees of the company who have worked hard have not been treated fairly or well. Christmas is a particularly difficult time of year for people to be told that they have lost their jobs, and it is completely unacceptable for workers to be told that with no notice and for them not to be paid the wages that they are due. I am not satisfied with the way in which the company has handled its contractual obligations to our national health service or its contractual and other obligations to its workforce. Since the autumn of last year, the Scottish Government and Scottish Enterprise have been trying to co-operate with HES by offering a range of business support and support for the workforce, but we have had little, if any, co-operation.

On the health service contract, any company that takes contract obligations seriously would not advise, over a very short space of time, that it cannot meet its contractual obligations and say, over an equally short space of time, “That’s it. We have packed up shop,” and cease trading.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

That concludes questions on the statement on clinical waste services. I apologise to Alison Harris, James Kelly and Shona Robison, whom I was not able to call.

Supporting Entrepreneurship

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, East Kilbride)

The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-15507, in the name of Kate Forbes, on supporting entrepreneurship. [

Interruption

.] I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly, please. My goodness! I will say no more. I call Kate Forbes to speak to and move the motion.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

The Government and I, as the Minister for Public Finance and Digital Economy, have made it clear that our ambition and vision is for the nation of Scotland to be at the forefront of economic and technological development. That means that we must be the inventors and producers of future innovations, not just consumers. We know that Scotland’s people have more than enough potential to be world leading in many fields.

We are all very familiar with the names of the innovators and entrepreneurs of our past, such as Bell, Fleming and Carnegie. More recently, names such as Farmer, Gloag and Hunter have come to the fore. The Government agrees with Sir Tom Hunter that we must work together to ensure that our best days are ahead of us and that enterprise plays a positive role for all society.

Of course, that will be no mean feat, but there is another generation that is coming through with the ideas, the initiative and the guts just to give it a go, and I absolutely believe that we can accomplish it and achieve our vision if we work together. It is no wonder, then, that our approach is based on working with partners to nurture our existing entrepreneurial talent as well as creating the conditions that attract international talent. On that note, I am startled by the way in which the Conservative amendment talks about attractiveness, given that the party has in recent weeks—and, indeed, years—been lambasted for single-handedly not just turning people off coming to this country but actively restricting them from entering.

The Scotland can do approach embodies our strategy, because in sharp contrast to the small-minded and self-obsessed approach that I have outlined and what, in the words of some business organisations, is misleading rhetoric on immigration, this Government is actively supporting home talent as well as attracting people to move to this country. The Scotland can do platform, which we have developed with our public, private and third sector partners, represents our shared ambition to become world leading in entrepreneurship and innovation.

Make no mistake—Scotland can do is paying off. Since its introduction in 2013, the effectiveness of Scotland’s business support environment has risen from 13th to fifth in the world, ahead of all other parts of the United Kingdom. However, I do not think that that is enough—we need to go further. That collaboration, which champions an approach in which sustainable growth and innovation go hand in hand with the wider benefits to all society, is the foundation that we must continue to build on.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

In many ways, the minister is absolutely right, but how do the remarks that she has just made square with the fact that funding for Scottish Enterprise has declined by more than a quarter since her party came to power?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

We have made it clear that support for business lies at the very heart of this year’s draft budget, and in our support for our enterprise agencies—which, of course, include Highlands and Islands Enterprise as well as Scottish Enterprise—we have treated them fairly and consistently. At the heart of the issue, however, are the output and the benefit to the business community, and the statistics that I have just quoted on the business support environment—and which I should point out are not mine—showing that Scotland has risen from 13th to fifth in the world, ahead of all other parts of the UK, indicate that we must look at the support that businesses are telling us that they need and ensure that that support is not piecemeal but of the type that business wants.

Where we have applied a focus and prioritised matters such as tackling the gender gap or ensuring that our young people see enterprising activity as the norm, the results have been positive. I think that a very important point in the Labour amendment is its recognition of the importance of women in enterprise to ensure that the growth that I have talked about is, indeed, inclusive. Although the proportion of women actively starting a business has risen significantly since the establishment of the women in enterprise action framework, we clearly have more to do to ensure that we leave nobody behind.

Elaine Smith (Labour, Central Scotland)

Although I recognise what the minister has said, I think that, at this stage, we should also point out that, according to the statistics, less than a quarter of new businesses in Scotland are being established by women.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I appreciate and do not disagree with that point. If we were able to encourage more women to be in a position to start a business, the value to the Scottish economy would be enormous. Making sure that inclusivity lies at the heart of our entrepreneurship agenda is good not just for entrepreneurs but for the Scottish economy as a whole. We recognise that values and diversity must lie at the heart of our can do philosophy.

Organisations such as the Scottish Chambers of Commerce and the Federation of Small Businesses have made enormous contributions to those shared outcomes, and Young Enterprise Scotland and the Prince’s Trust have driven action. As for the gender gap, which I have already mentioned, Women’s Enterprise Scotland and Investing Women are tackling some of the challenges around the statistics that Elaine Smith highlighted. In fact, so many partners are responsible for driving that impact that to name them all and their contributions would leave us little time for the debate.

However, one partner that deserves specific recognition is Entrepreneurial Scotland, which is a network of and for Scotland’s entrepreneurs and is at the very heart of what the Scottish Government is trying to achieve. At the weekend, I met Rachel Wallace, who works for Entrepreneurial Scotland, to ask her, aside from any briefings that I might receive, what impact she sees the network having on the business that she is trying to support. The entrepreneurial drive that I could see in Rachel herself was very clear: being able to come alongside businesses and support them in a way that they ask for, rather than one that the Government wants to provide, is really making a difference.

I touched briefly on values, which have to be at the heart of our approach. Time and time again, the Scottish Government has stated its commitment to economic growth that must be inclusive, and that businesses that do good are much more likely to be successful and resilient. From the social enterprise strategy to the Scottish business pledge and our commitment to being a fair work nation, we have made clear our position.

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The minister mentioned inclusive growth. The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee recently heard that the Government has no agreed definition of that term. When will it be able to tell the various agencies that are involved in the economy what it means by the term?

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

I recall my colleague asking Dean Lockhart which strategy he thought the Scottish Government could leave behind, and his citing inclusive growth—which, of course, we would never do.

On that subject, it is quite clear that we should ensure that anybody who wants to access the workforce and be an entrepreneur is able to do so and that there is a level playing field. On the other hand, we must ensure that the outcomes of the growth that we then see in the economy benefit everybody and that we do not see a continuation of the gap between rich and poor that some of Dean Lockhart’s colleagues in the Westminster Government seem intent on making bigger. That means growth for more than its own sake. It means growth in which positive social, environmental and community outcomes are a natural consideration—not an afterthought, a convenient side effect or a nice subject for debate in the Parliament—and in which everybody is empowered to participate and from which everybody can benefit. In itself, that sentence is quite a neat definition.

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

rose

—

The Deputy Presiding Officer

The minister is in her last minute. In fact, she is just winding up.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I have been having far too much fun taking interventions, so I will now rush to the end of my speech.

We are all aware—and I am sure that we will have a very interesting debate on the matter—that approaching headwinds will inevitably impact on the ability of business to thrive. Just yesterday, the Confederation of British Industry published what I will call—for want of a better description—scary figures on the impact on the Scottish economy of a no-deal Brexit. Such headwinds have been caused not by Scotland’s businesses but by decisions made elsewhere. More than ever, that underlines why we must work with our partners in business, listen to them and ensure that our support is right. That is the essence of our approach, and that is the reason for its success.

I move,

That the Parliament recognises the successes of Scotland’s entrepreneurial businesses and the potential of all of Scotland’s people; welcomes the collaborative approach to increasing and supporting entrepreneurship between the private sector and the Scottish Government; notes the crucial role played by Scotland’s entrepreneurs and the all-sector enterprise support network in developing the “Scotland CAN DO” approach, including through the Unlocking Ambition Challenge; further notes the role of the public sector in supporting entrepreneurship and innovation through organisations such as CivTech, and welcomes the commitment to build on this momentum, as set out in the Economic Action Plan.

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The concept of entrepreneurship reaches back to the work of Adam Smith, and Scotland rightly has a long and proud history of creating new industries. Entrepreneurs in Scotland today continue to play a vital role in our economy, and their success must be recognised. They build new businesses and create jobs, providing a boost to local and national economies; they add to national income by generating new wealth and increased tax receipts; and they generate multiplier effects for the economy by creating new products and services.

Although we all recognise that entrepreneurship is a vital part of the economy, the reality is that no Government can legislate for it: we cannot regulate entrepreneurship into existence. Instead, the role of Government should be to create a dynamic skills, business and financial environment in which entrepreneurship can flourish.

The importance of creating such an environment was highlighted in a recent study by Grant Thornton, which identified that £4.3 billion-worth of business growth is being lost to Scotland because of what it described as an environment of barriers, including barriers to access to skills, technology and innovation, and financial issues.

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

Will the member give way?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I will in a second.

Perhaps that is why business creation rates in Scotland continue to lag behind those in the rest of the UK—and perhaps that is what John Mason wants to explain.

John Mason (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Shettleston)

Dean Lockhart mentioned a lack of skills. Is he not concerned that Brexit could lead to a greater lack of them?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The UK Government has announced a new immigration policy, which is designed precisely to align with the economy’s skills needs, so no—I am not concerned.

The Scottish Government’s motion sets out various initiatives supporting entrepreneurship, which we welcome. However, a patchwork list of initiatives is not enough to create the right environment for enterprise. The motion also refers to the new economic action plan, but that plan is merely what the Fraser of Allander institute describes as

“a long list of government initiatives recording how money is spent.”

We need to do more to realise Scotland’s entrepreneurial potential. That is why our amendment calls on the Scottish Government to take a more fundamental approach to create a dynamic skills, business and financial environment that truly supports entrepreneurship.

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

I completely agree that skills are a key issue. One of the key drivers of skills is our fantastic university sector. I am sure that Mr Lockhart will welcome as much as I do the figures that were released last week showing that 15.6 per cent of university students are from the 20 per cent most deprived areas. The commissioner for fair access, Sir Peter Scott, said in today’s

Herald

that the SNP policy of free tuition fees was vindicated.

Let me just ask Mr Lockhart—

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Mr Arthur, I think that that is a long-enough intervention.

Tom Arthur (Scottish National Party, Renfrewshire South)

Does Mr Lockhart support the policy of free tuition—

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Mr Arthur! We are short of time for the debate. I call Mr Lockhart.

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Let me address the intervention. There is a skills shortage in Scotland, which has doubled since 2011. Over the past 10 years, college student numbers have been cut by 150,000 and the CBI has called on the Government to do more to fill teacher vacancies in vital subjects such as maths and science.

I say to the minister, who is responsible for the digital economy, that we are also seeing an increasing digital skills gap emerge in Scotland. The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee has heard evidence that only 9 per cent of businesses in Scotland use digital in their business, compared to 43 per cent in other countries. A number of new businesses in digital and technology will not be able to get off the ground unless the digital gap is addressed.

That is why we have been calling for the establishment of a dedicated institute of e-commerce—a specialist agency that would help emerging enterprises take full advantage of the global opportunities in e-commerce.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

The member talked about the need for skills. Will he respond to the FSB’s point that the UK Government’s “obstinate approach” to immigration will ensure that non-UK labour and skills will not be there to enable small businesses to grow and sustain their operations?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I have already said that the UK Government has announced a new immigration policy that is designed to fill the skills gap.

On the business environment, we need to promote Scotland as a home for innovators. Entrepreneurs create jobs; they are business developers who support economic growth. Not only that—they tend to be top-rate taxpayers who contribute to Government tax revenues.

Not surprisingly, we face competition from around the world and the rest of the UK for those innovators, but instead of trying to attract them to Scotland, the SNP is doing exactly the opposite by making Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK for entrepreneurs.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Will the member give way?

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Will the member give way?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I have given way enough—I am sorry.

We also need a business environment that encourages entrepreneurs to scale up and expand their business base, but, again, we have a Government that does the opposite by inflicting the large business supplement on successful firms with the ambition to expand.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Will the member give way?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

No.

I turn to enterprise policy. Scotland has a vibrant start-up scene, with many entrepreneurs looking to commercialise new ideas and innovations. However, the SNP’s enterprise policy fails to provide the right level of support for start-ups across Scotland.

The Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee is concluding an inquiry into business support, including business gateway, which is the primary provider of enterprise support for start-ups. The committee has heard evidence that because of a lack of funding and resource, business support for start-ups across Scotland is inconsistent and lacks expertise. We also heard that the number of start-ups receiving assistance has dropped to an eight-year low.

If we are serious about supporting start-ups, we must have a fundamentally improved system of start-up support.

Daniel Johnson (Labour, Edinburgh Southern)

Will the member give way?

Dean Lockhart (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am sorry, but I am just about to conclude.

I urge the minister to take action on the committee’s recommendations when its final report is presented to Parliament.

After 11 years of SNP Government, we have a low-growth, low-wage, low-productivity and low-innovation economy, with levels of innovation in Scotland now in the third quartile of Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries.

I remind the minister that all these policy areas have been within the control of the SNP for 11 years. If Scotland’s true entrepreneurial potential is to be realised, we need to see the SNP Government change direction in economic policy and create an environment in which innovation and enterprise can flourish.

I move amendment S5M-15507.1, to leave out from “, as set out” to end and insert:

“notes the economic forecasts of the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which state that Scotland’s economic growth will continue to be subdued over the next five years and will continue to underperform that of the UK as a whole; further notes that Scotland’s business creation rate continues to lag behind the rest of the UK; recognises the impact that the Scottish Government’s policy of making Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK has on Scotland’s reputation as being open to entrepreneurs, and calls on the Scottish Government to change direction in economic policy in order to create the skills, business and financial environment in which entrepreneurship can flourish.”

The Deputy Presiding Officer

I call Rhoda Grant to speak to and move amendment S5M-15507.2—five minutes, please.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Scotland has a long history of entrepreneurship. Unfortunately, most of it is historic. We need to lay again the foundation that encourages that entrepreneurial spirit. Although there is little to disagree with in the Government motion, statements of intent do not really build the foundations that we need in order to thrive. A couple of years ago, I attended the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association women’s conference that looked at women in business. A number of women addressed the conference and talked about their own experiences. For the most part, they had gone into business because circumstances forced them to. It was the difficulty of finding work that fitted around caring responsibilities that drove them to set up their own businesses. They were driven not by a career choice or a burning ambition but by what they needed to do to survive.

Women’s Enterprise Scotland published a report highlighting the barriers faced by women entrepreneurs. Its recommendations pointed to the in-built inequality in the way in which support is provided, which means that women are underrepresented in the sector. That is detrimental to women and to our economy as a whole. Some of the issues that WES raises are amplified by others, such as the FSB, as being true throughout the sector. They include, for example, the fragmentation of support and the missing middle: the transition between business gateway and the enterprise sector.

I have constituents who find themselves being passed back and forth between different organisations because the help available from one is quite different from that available from another; many businesses fall between all of them. Businesses need seamless support. When companies are trading successfully, they become vulnerable to takeover from larger organisations that can grow the business. That indicates that there is a risk factor for companies looking to take the next step to grow and export, and that they need support at that point. The loss of ownership of those companies damages our economy. They often become part of larger multinationals, so we lose much of the wealth that they create in taxes as well as their income.

If we are to maximise the benefits of entrepreneurship, we need to encourage, grow and nurture those companies, but the system does not do that seamlessly. In addition, the support available is not always suitable. Enterprise companies tend to focus help on account managed companies, which fit a narrow definition, while other potentially successful businesses get little or no support. We need to be more open to different business models. Again, the support for those can be fragmented. Co-operatives and social enterprises spread risk while providing employment and economic benefit, but their economic impact is sometimes overlooked and they do not get the support that they require.

Gillian Martin (Scottish National Party, Aberdeenshire East)

Does Rhoda Grant agree that some of the issues around business support involve looking for too fast a growth and that woman-led businesses tend to be more about sustainable, long-term growth?

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Yes, I agree with that. However, there are also gaps in the support provided, and that is most likely to be felt by women.

As I said, the economic impact of co-ops and social enterprises is sometimes overlooked. Although there are expert organisations that can help them, co-ops and social enterprises also need mainstream support that understands and encourages that form of entrepreneurship, supports them and signposts them to those expert organisations where necessary.

The same is true of sole traders. In many rural areas, there is not the opportunity to grow a business, because it is about filling a local niche. Those businesses are a crucial economic driver in rural communities and, if they fail, there is a detrimental impact on the wider economy. However, those businesses are often overlooked because of their inability to grow. In addition, as my colleague Daniel Johnson said in an intervention, there are the falling enterprise company budgets. It is therefore difficult to see how the Scottish Government is supporting entrepreneurs.

The Conservative amendment talks about Scottish economic growth underperforming against that of the rest of the UK, and we agree with that point.

However, we do not agree that fairer taxation discourages entrepreneurs; indeed, we believe the opposite. Austerity damages our economy and business opportunities for entrepreneurs. It holds our economy back, and those who bear the brunt of that are the least well-off in our society. Therefore, we cannot support the Conservative amendment.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

You must close, please.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

However, austerity handed down from the UK Government cannot explain the difference between the Scottish economy and the economy of the rest of the UK. Yes, there is the uncertainty of Brexit, but that is shared throughout the UK.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

You must close, please, Ms Grant.

Rhoda Grant (Labour, Highlands and Islands)

Indyref 2 would give more uncertainty to Scotland.

I move amendment S5M-15507.2, to insert at end

“; notes the report from Women’s Enterprise Scotland highlighting barriers for women entrepreneurs getting support; further notes concerns about the fragmentation of support for start-up businesses, especially for social enterprises, worker co-operatives and sole traders, while budgets for Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise decrease, and calls on the Scottish Government to provide streamlined support to business start-ups and to ensure that such support should continue in order to discourage successful businesses being bought over, rather than grown rooted in the Scottish economy.”

The Deputy Presiding Officer

We are really pushed for time today. That is largely because of people going over their time, which is unfair to their colleagues. Willie Rennie, you have four minutes.

Willie Rennie (Liberal Democrat, North East Fife)

Thank you for setting me up so nicely, Presiding Officer. I will aim to keep within four minutes.

I recognise the success of Scotland’s entrepreneurial businesses and the contribution that they make to employing people across Scotland. Members need to look no further than the east neuk of Fife and the village of Pittenweem in my constituency. According to the Federation of Small Businesses, it is the fourth most enterprising town. No less than 14.7 per cent of its workers are self-employed, which is an astounding 128 per cent above the national average.

I was fortunate to spend 16 hours on the night shift with one of those businesses—the prawn boat Sanela. I cannot say that it was easy—I did not sit down for the whole 16 hours—but it provided an example of the dedication that small businesses and businesspeople offer as a contribution towards our economy. Small businesses are responsible for seven out of ten private sector jobs in rural areas, accounting for more than 40,000 jobs in Fife alone and almost double that in Scotland’s two biggest cities.

Kate Forbes (Scottish National Party, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

Does Willie Rennie welcome the fact that two of the most entrepreneurial villages in Scotland are in the Highlands?