Scottish Parliament, 27 October 2026

120 contributions from 40 members. The official report.

First Minister’s Question Time

A member

14:30

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

We now move to First Minister’s questions for back-bench members. Today, and uniquely so far in this session, questions will be answered by the Deputy First Minister rather than the First Minister.

Craig Hoy (Conservative, Dumfriesshire)

I welcome the Deputy First Minister to her dress rehearsal. Is she aware of a revelation in The Sunday Times this weekend that 800 ghost public sector workers—people whose jobs have gone but who are still turning up for work—are costing her Government £30 million per year? That includes one NHS Highland employee who is still clocking in 17 years after their role was made redundant. When the First Minister returns, will she take him aside, tell him to grow a spine, stand up to the public sector unions and finally drop the ridiculous policy of no compulsory redundancies in Scotland’s public sector?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am aware of the article in The Sunday Times that Mr Hoy alludes to. It is really important to put on the record that the jobs that he is referring to are under way at the current time and that, across the public sector, our public bodies are expected to deliver value for money.

The figures that Mr Hoy cited include staff who have been redeployed and who are currently engaged in meaningful employment that is appropriate to their pay grade. Of course, the Scottish public finance manual sets out the requirements for each public body to achieve value for money, which is something that I thought Mr Hoy was supportive of in terms of the public purse. It is important that, as we drive forward our programme on public service reform, we engage with the Opposition. I look forward to continued engagement with Mr Hoy and his colleagues on these important points.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

Largs and Saltcoats experienced significant damage due to the flooding over the weekend, and the towns face greater flooding risk as extreme weather events become more common. Can the Deputy First Minister outline whether financial support will be available to the businesses and individuals who are affected, whether Largs and Saltcoats will receive any of the new £5 million community flood resilience fund, and what further support can be given to reduce future risk?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Katy Clark raises a number of important points. In terms of the issues at Largs and Saltcoats, colleagues will have seen the footage of some really challenging weather over the course of the weekend. Mr Flynn was down in Largs only yesterday, meeting business owners and hearing about some of the challenges. The extensive damage that has happened was also discussed this morning at Cabinet.

Ms Clark asked about the support that will be available for the community. As I understand it, at the current time, that has not yet been forthcoming from North Ayrshire Council. Indeed, that point was put to the council at yesterday’s meeting of the Scottish Government resilience room. There will be another SGoRR meeting at 4 o’clock today, so I will be more than happy to follow up with the member on those points after that. Of course, we will listen to any calls for help in that regard and respond accordingly, given the extensive damage that has happened, particularly in relation to flooding.

Laura Mitchell (Scottish National Party, Moray)

Storm Boelo caused a great deal of disruption in my Moray constituency, and communities in other parts of Scotland have also seen significant damage, as referred to by Katy Clark. Tragically, two men lost their lives during the storm and, of course, our thoughts are with their loved ones.

After three consecutive days of weather warnings, can the Deputy First Minister provide an update on the Scottish Government’s response to the storm and the anticipated further adverse weather conditions this week?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I extend my condolences and those of the Scottish Government to the families and loved ones of the two men who lost their lives in the storms this weekend.

The Scottish Government resilience room was activated on Friday, as I mentioned in my response to Katy Clark, and ministers and officials have been engaged with front-line agencies over the course of the weekend, to tackle the impacts that Laura Mitchell and Katy Clark have mentioned.

As members know, communities up and down the country have experienced power cuts, flooding, school closures and transport disruption. I pay tribute to staff who have led the response to the storm, particularly those braving the worst of the weather. This morning, just under 7,000 customers remained off supply. That remains of significant concern to the Scottish Government, which is exactly why SGoRR will reconvene following First Minister’s questions this afternoon.

Neil Bibby (Labour, West Scotland)

Renfrewshire Council chose not to deploy physical flood defence barriers in Renfrew—part of a £10 million scheme—during an amber weather warning, because of an apparent failure in forecasting. Businesses such as McGregor’s Bar and Ferry Nice Food have been left devastated with uninsured losses after the weekend’s floods. What is the Deputy First Minister’s response to that operational failure by the council? What financial support will be provided by the Government to affected businesses and individuals in Renfrew? What urgent action will the Scottish Government take to ensure that local authorities actually use the physical flood defences that they have spent taxpayers’ money on?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Mr Bibby refers to a local decision about flooding and the infrastructure that exists in Renfrewshire, and that would, of course, be a matter for the local authority. However, we will engage with the local authority directly. As I understand it, it has also been engaged in the SGoRR meetings that have been taking place. As I intimated, there will be a meeting later today, at 4 o’clock. It is not for the Government to instruct local authorities to use their flooding resources—I see the member nodding. We would expect them to deploy those resources, given the circumstances.

I should put on record that there were challenges around the weather and the forecasting, which at times caused a level of challenge across the country. However, I am more than happy to pick up the member’s point with officials in relation to the local authority that he mentioned, and I will make sure that it is engaged in the SGoRR call that will take place at 4 o’clock this afternoon.

Clare Haughey (Scottish National Party, Rutherglen and Cambuslang)

Last week, the Labour chancellor admitted what we have said for decades: that our energy resources have been squandered and Scotland’s £1 trillion future was stolen from us. We now know that Labour’s new energy wealth fund will use oil and gas reserves from our waters to pay for projects in England. History is repeating itself. Given that the United Kingdom budget statement will be made tomorrow, does the Deputy First Minister agree that every single penny of Scottish oil and gas revenue must be invested right back into Scottish renewables, because we can never let Westminster steal our future from us again?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I absolutely agree with the sentiment behind Clare Haughey’s question. Of course, the Scottish National Party has been calling for the establishment of a wealth fund for decades, so it is welcome that Scottish Labour has now joined those calls. The call for reinvestment in renewables, particularly in the north-east of Scotland, is certainly welcome. Over the years, £400 billion of revenues have flowed to the Treasury, so it is high time that those revenues came back to Scotland to be reinvested in communities in the area where they came from and to help drive the economic growth that we need to support our constituents.

Mark Simpson (Reform UK, North East Scotland)

Can the Deputy First Minister confirm to the people of Aberdeen whether she is happy with the approval of Jackdaw and say whether she would like Rosebank to be approved for the benefit of the entire north-east?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The approval of Jackdaw was a decision for the United Kingdom Government. In our view, it has taken too long to come to that decision, which has created uncertainty—[Interruption.]

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

Excuse me. Let us hear the Deputy First Minister, please.

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

However, with that certainty, we very much hope that we will be able to move forward and that the jobs that will be created as a result will benefit the local economy.

Patrick Harvie (Green, Glasgow)

The Deputy First Minister will be aware of the significant disruption to schools in Glasgow as a result of hoax bomb threats that were called in and that affected many parts of the country, but particularly Glasgow. Hoax threats of that kind are clearly deeply irresponsible, but these ones were quickly identified as hoaxes. It was when people were subject to disinformation through social media that the most significant impacts happened, particularly in the most deprived areas, where the number of children being held back from school significantly increased.

How does the Government support local authorities to respond to such situations? Does the Deputy First Minister agree that the situation underscores the need for the Government to develop a disinformation strategy to protect people when that kind of information is misrepresented?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Harvie for raising that important point. I know, for example, that there were issues in Edinburgh, with teachers being sent home who were undertaking their in-service training day on returning from the October break. There have been challenges across the country. As I understand it, Mr Gray has engaged with Police Scotland on the resilience work that is being undertaken on that.

The substantive point of Mr Harvie’s question about absence in poorer communities in particular is important. We have a number of programmes running, including the pupil equity fund, which helps to support the work on attendance.

On his broader point about disinformation, there are significant challenges in that regard. He will be aware of the work with the Time for Inclusive Education campaign through the digital discourse initiative, which the Government has supported through the programme for government. I am sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Culture and Gaelic would be happy to engage with Mr Harvie more generally on the points about the education support that is available.

Iris Duane (Green, Glasgow)

Palantir Technologies has reportedly secured contracts worth almost £1 billion in the United Kingdom, including in the public sector, through NHS England and the Ministry of Defence. That is despite serious concerns over the company’s record relating to reported human rights abuses and surveillance and data privacy issues. Can the Deputy First Minister reassure those in Scotland who fear that we could follow the same path and commit to keeping Palantir out of the public sector?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I confirm to Iris Duane that we are not currently aware of any contracts in the national health service in Scotland in relation to Palantir. I hope that that will reassure the member on those points, given the considerable and understandable concern that has been raised in recent months about the operations of the company, particularly in our healthcare system.

Patricia Gibson (Scottish National Party, Cunninghame South)

Official figures reveal that, last year, more than £112 million was spent on legally purchased cigarettes in Ayrshire, which is almost four times the £30 million that was spent on the Scottish child payment for Ayrshire children. Given that studies conclusively prove that poverty and cigarette consumption are directly related, does the Deputy First Minister agree that redoubling efforts to reduce smoking in socioeconomically challenged communities will not only improve people’s health but have a positive impact on reducing child poverty?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I agree with Patricia Gibson’s points on tobacco in relation to health impacts, health outcomes, household income and supporting our wider efforts to tackle poverty. That is why we are committed to achieving a tobacco-free Scotland by 2034. The Tobacco and Vapes Act 2026 will create a smoke-free generation by ensuring that anyone who was born after 1 January 2009 can never legally be sold tobacco. The act will also strengthen restrictions on advertising and promotion and introduce further controls on the sale of nicotine products, helping to prevent addiction in the first place. Those who smoke can access wider support through Scotland’s quit your way services.

Jenny Young (Labour, Central Scotland and Lothians West)

On 16 September, the Parliament, with the Government’s support, voted in favour of a motion requiring new national planning guidance on applications for hyperscale data centres. That motion stated that no decisions on planning or consenting should be made until the Scottish Government publishes the guidance, by the end of this calendar year. However, the Larbert data centre application is still due to be determined by Falkirk Council on 13 November. Is the Deputy First Minister aware that some councils are progressing regardless of that vote? Will her Government step in to ensure that no decision is taken until the guidance is available?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Jenny Young will be aware that I cannot comment on specific applications. However, she will also be aware—and she was right to set out to the Parliament—that, back in August, the Minister for Public Finance made it clear to the Parliament, through a Government-initiated question, that planning guidance will be published before Christmas. The mandating of environmental impact assessments for all data centres that exceed 50MW of power capacity applies to new and existing applications.

To respond to Jenny Young’s substantive point, I note that ministers have call-in powers. Although I will not comment on specific applications, we can also recall any planning appeal rather than have the decision made by the Scottish Government reporter. I want to give some reassurance on those points without commenting on the specific nature of the application that the member has highlighted, given the restrictions that apply to ministers in that regard.

David Green (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Ross)

Last week, the Scottish Government ignored local public opinion and rejected the application for Coul Links golf course in my constituency. Ministers said no to 400 full-time equivalent jobs, no to £12 million per year for the local economy, no to £1 million for habitat restoration and no to a community share that would have been worth hundreds of thousands of pounds per year. Given that Sutherland faces severe population decline, many of my constituents simply despair at that decision. Does the Deputy First Minister understand why that is? Will she explain to my constituents how she intends to replace the opportunities that the Government has rejected?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Mr Green is right to say that ministers have refused planning permission for the Coul Links golf course. The case has been ongoing for several years. The rationale behind the decision relates to adverse impacts on nationally and internationally important natural heritage interests. I recognise the significant public interest in the case. It should be said that strong views have been expressed on both sides—by supporters of the proposal, as Mr Green has set out, but also by opponents.

The Government is committed to supporting sustainable economic growth across the Highlands. Our decision letter accepts that the proposal would deliver local and regional tourism, as Mr Green set out. However, it concluded that those benefits would not outweigh the identified impacts on nationally and internationally important natural heritage interests—that is, the Loch Fleet site of special scientific interest, the Dornoch Firth and the Loch Fleet Ramsar site.

The full reasoning for the ministers’ decision is set out in the decision letter and the accompanying reporters’ report, which is published on the planning and environmental appeals website. I cannot comment beyond what was set out in those documents, as Mr Green will understand.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Inverclyde)

Will the Deputy First Minister provide an update on the recently announced tugboat order that has been considered for Ferguson Marine in Port Glasgow?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport set out recently, the Government is working closely with Ferguson Marine to progress the commercial, financial and governance arrangements that are required to enable the yard to commence manufacture of the proposed tug boats as quickly as possible. The work is very much intended to support the retention of valuable shipbuilding skills and to sustain productive activity at the yard while longer-term opportunities continue.

As discussions are ongoing, a number of the details remain commercially sensitive at the current time, but the Government will update Parliament at the appropriate time when those arrangements have been finalised.

Finlay Carson (Conservative, Galloway and West Dumfries)

What progress has the Scottish Government made to improve data collection and access to treatment for patients who are diagnosed with secondary breast cancer?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank Mr Carson for his question in relation to secondary breast cancer. I think that it would be appropriate for me to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care to write to him about the specifics and to provide an update on the data that he asked for.

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

The Deputy First Minister knows that Dundee is the city that is most exposed to RAAC, with council tenants and home owners being significantly affected. Last night, Dundee City Council agreed to a remediation programme, but that does not remove RAAC from affected properties or address the key concerns of home owners, who fear that no amount of remediation will prevent significant financial loss to them.

Will the Scottish Government commit to working with Dundee City Council, the Dundee RAAC campaign group, including home owners, and the United Kingdom Government to develop a plan that will deal with all the concerns that remain unanswered?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I have seen the reports today and I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and Housing has been engaged with officials and Dundee City Council on the matter over a number of years. The issues in relation to RAAC predate devolution, so, when we talk about some of the spending that is involved, we need to talk about a partnership approach in relation to the role of the United Kingdom Government.

We have been very clear that we would consider requests from local authorities for flexibility to look at solutions that are bespoke to local circumstances. However, the UK Government has greater financial flexibility to step up a dedicated RAAC remediation fund—so far, it has failed to do so. We will continue to work with local government and encourage home owners to engage with it locally. I am sure that the housing secretary will be more than happy to engage with the member on the substantive point that she raised.

Thomas Kerr (Reform UK, Glasgow)

Given that sexual offences and rapes have seen an upward trend over a 10-year period in Glasgow—with around 486 reported rapes and attempted rapes recorded annually, which averages out to roughly one every 18 hours—and given the Scottish Police Authority’s recent report on the financial crisis that is engulfing Police Scotland, does the Deputy First Minister accept that Scotland needs to have more police officers on our streets, and not fewer? What action will she take to reverse the decline in police numbers?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I thank the member for his question and particularly for his interest in sexual crimes and domestic abuse cases. Recorded crime is down by almost half from its peak, back in 1991, but we are concerned by the increases in recorded crimes that we have seen in recent years, and particularly in sexual crimes and domestic abuse. Part of that is about reporting and people having confidence in coming forward, and part of it relates to the Lord Advocate’s changes, which the First Minister has set out to Parliament.

On the member’s point about police numbers, I will be meeting the chief constable about that in the coming weeks, ahead of the budget. However, we have more officers per 10,000 people in Scotland than in England and Wales, and our officers receive the best pay in the United Kingdom at the minimum and the maximum of each rank. As of 31 March this year, there were around 30 full-time officers per 10,000 people in Scotland, compared with around 24 per 10,000 in England and Wales.

Joe Long (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

The allocation of funding last week to reduce waiting times in the national health service is welcome. However, psychiatry has not been included among the specialist services that are receiving funding, despite record levels of demand and significant vacancies across the workforce. Can the Deputy First Minister explain why psychiatry was not included? Does she agree that reaching parity of esteem between physical and mental health support will require greater prioritisation of clinical mental health services?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am pleased that Joe Long welcomes the additional investment that the Government has been able to confirm in recent weeks, particularly in relation to driving down waiting times. Waiting times, and long waits in particular, continue to fall.

Joe Long made a specific point in relation to psychiatric care. I did not quite catch the last part of his question on mental health provision, but we have also been able to provide significant additionality for services in relation to mental health. I will take the member’s specific point away and come back to him via officials in relation to the offer around how that £90 million could be diverted. I do not have the specific information in front of me today, so, if the member will allow me to, I will come back to him in writing.

Jenni Minto (Scottish National Party, Argyll and Bute)

The Deputy First Minister will know of the demonstration at the Rest and Be Thankful, involving many local hauliers and farmers coming together to highlight the route’s vital importance. I am pleased that the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport is meeting the community later this week. Everyone in Argyll and Bute knows that a long-term solution to the threat of landslides is needed. However, the current proposal to introduce a single-lane convoy system for four years would be catastrophic for business while also creating serious risks for emergency services. Given the strong local feelings that have been highlighted by a petition that already has more than 8,000 signatories, will the Scottish Government reconsider the single-lane convoy plan?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I am sure that I met and engaged with a number of the protesters in a previous life, when I was the Minister for Transport. I understand the local strength of feeling about the Rest and Be Thankful. The Government and the transport secretary are focused on coming to a solution and delivering it. Transport Scotland has undertaken further design and appraisal work in consultation with the A83 campaign group about an alternative, two-way, medium-term option. As the member said, the transport secretary will meet Ms Minto and members of the campaign group on Thursday to hear their views, and he will take a decision in due course.

Rachael Hamilton (Conservative, Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire)

Last night, at a packed meeting at Hawick town hall, residents called for a review of the recent decision to hollow out the fire service in Hawick to a daytime service only. Trauma survivors shared powerful stories and accounts of how firefighters had saved their lives with minutes to spare, yet Scottish National Party cuts have hollowed out services and there has been a reduction in response times. Will the Deputy First Minister commit to ensuring that her justice secretary meets residents to hear their stories, and will she consider an independent review of the decision?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The review that the member alluded to is based on service demands. The member has raised a local issue, and I am sure that the justice secretary has heard Ms Hamilton’s point and will engage with her on it. This year’s budget provides, in totality, an additional £23.8 million. That shows our continued commitment to supporting the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to deliver the high standard of service that is required to keep Scotland safe.

Andrew Baxter (Liberal Democrat, Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch)

When the GlenWyvis distillery, in my constituency, received a £0.5 million Government-funded loan, ministers rushed to welcome the investment as a means of safeguarding jobs and supporting growth, yet the business had already ceased production and was embroiled in long-standing financial and legal difficulties. Will the Deputy First Minister explain what assessment ministers made of those risks before publicly endorsing the investment? Was the Government advised that the distillery’s future was already in doubt?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I do not have the details of the GlenWyvis distillery, but I am more than happy to engage with officials and to come back with substantive points. It would be remiss of me to suggest otherwise, and it is important to provide a detailed response, so I will ask the relevant minister and officials to engage with him.

Zen Ghani (Scottish National Party, Glasgow Cathcart and Pollok)

As someone who is care experienced, I know how important it is for care-experienced people to have a voice in the decisions that affect them. As we mark care experienced week, can the Deputy First Minister tell me what more the Scottish Government can do to ensure that care-experienced people shape the services that they use?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I share Zen Ghani’s acknowledgement of care experience week. I recognise that care-experienced young people must not simply be consulted but must be part of shaping the decisions and policies that affect their lives. That is at the very heart of the Promise. We continue to support organisations, including The Promise Scotland, Who Cares? Scotland, and Each and Every Child, which create opportunities for people with lived experience to influence change. As we implement legislation and reforms, we will continue to ensure that care-experienced children, young people and adults are directly involved in shaping how changes are delivered in practice, and we will ensure that we speak to care-experienced young people directly. The Promise will be kept by 2030. The Government is doing all it can to make that progress happen.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

Following last week’s decision on Jackdaw, which was welcomed by trade unions, Scottish Renewables has called for further action to support clean energy investment. SSE has also announced hundreds of skilled offshore wind jobs, including 400 in Scotland. What action is the Deputy First Minister taking to press the United Kingdom Government to remove the barriers to further renewables development, particularly transmission charging, so that we can deliver more skilled jobs for communities across Scotland?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Karen Adam is right. Those jobs demonstrate the economic opportunities that the transition is already delivering for the north-east of Scotland. However, Scotland could support more jobs and attract further investment if our renewables generators were not held back by a transmission charging system that is unfit for purpose. That system unfairly penalises projects in Scotland, despite the immense contribution that they make to the UK’s clean energy ambitions. We have raised the issue with the UK Government many times, over an extended period, and we have been clear that it cannot go on. The UK Government must now bring forward a long-term plan and interim measures to address the impact on Scottish generators. Unlocking our renewables potential is essential to delivering the economic growth that Karen Adam rightly speaks of.

Helen McDade (Reform UK, Mid Scotland and Fife)

Does the Deputy First Minister agree that care home residents should not be left relying on borrowed generators every time a storm downs the network? During storm Eowyn, care homes in Inverclyde had to be supplied with generators from Scottish Power. Will the Deputy First Minister tell Parliament how many Scottish care homes have any back-up power? I know from asking that an Edinburgh care home has no back-up power and relies on the energy companies. If she cannot come up with that number, will she commit to an audit to see what the situation is and whether something should be done before January, which the National Energy System Operator says is the tightest month?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

The situation that Helen McDade has set out is not acceptable in any way, shape or form—I want to make that very clear.

The Government has a system in place for the management of incidents, through which it works closely with resilience leads in our local authorities, health boards and integration joint boards in the event of a storm.

My understanding is that all care home residents—she has documented one case today, but there has been more than one—are safe and accounted for, and no evacuation was necessary. Officials are monitoring the situation and the wider impacts of the storm more generally. There will be a SGORR—Scottish Government resilience room—call at 4 o’clock today, and we may be able to share further information with the member following that call.

Angela Ross (Reform UK, Edinburgh and Lothians East)

The City of Edinburgh Council has paid more than £250,000 in compensation to support staff who were injured through pupil violence. Staff are being assaulted, councils are paying compensation, and unions have warned repeatedly that discipline is breaking down in too many schools. Given that the evidence is already in front of the Deputy First Minister, it is not acceptable to still be reviewing the issue. Instead, will the Deputy First Minister explain to us what action she will be taking to resolve it?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

As Angela Ross may know, I took a range of different actions on that exact issue as education secretary over the past three years, not least in relation to the national action plan and to the budget agreement that was reached last year, which provided an uplift in funding related to additional support needs and to the number of teachers in our schools. Those are both fundamental elements in responding to some of the challenges that the member has rightly set out.

I would be more than happy to engage with the member ahead of the budget if she wants to talk about some of the issues that she has raised. However, more broadly, it is important to recognise that Ms McAllan is now leading on the action plan on behaviour in schools and that the improvements that we are seeing across the board are being supported by a range of different partners.

Jackie Baillie (Labour, Dumbarton)

In August, almost 51,000 people had to wait more than four hours at accident and emergency, which is the worst figure ever recorded for this time of year. Nine out of 10 accident and emergency doctors say that emergency departments are simply not ready for winter. We are seeing increasing use of corridor care, which is not safe. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine is pushing for a clear definition of corridor care and for the collection and reporting of data. Does the Deputy First Minister agree with that, and will she commit the Government to ending the unsafe practice of corridor care?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

Jackie Baillie raises a very important and timely point, given that we are approaching the winter period. I am assured by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care that that is in hand, and I think that she gave an update to Parliament in recent weeks on that exact point.

If we look at some of the Scottish Ambulance Service data for the week ending 18 October, we can see that the median response time was 7 minutes and 40 seconds. The SAS is making progress more broadly in ensuring that only those patients who need to be prioritised and taken to A and E are transported. Last week, for example, more than half—54.1 per cent—of Scottish Ambulance Service emergency incidents were managed without any need for transfer to hospital. That is important in the context of Jackie Baillie’s question on the approach to winter pressures. That approach is centred on ensuring that people receive timely, safe and effective care throughout periods of increased demand.

Jackie Baillie’s point about data has been addressed by the health secretary in the chamber. I am sure that the cabinet secretary would be happy to engage with Ms Baillie on the substantive points as we approach winter. We will, of course, be engaging with Parliament, too.

Martyn Day (Scottish National Party, Falkirk East and Linlithgow)

The Deputy First Minister will be aware that improvement of the A801 Avon Gorge crossing in my constituency has been in the pipeline for decades. Given the strategic importance of that route, and given that the latest outline business case was submitted to Transport Scotland last March, when can my constituents expect to see progress on that long-awaited and vital project?

Jenny Gilruth (Scottish National Party, Mid Fife and Glenrothes)

I recognise the long-standing interest in the A801 Avon Gorge project in the member’s local constituency.

I am advised that the business case that was submitted to Transport Scotland is currently under assessment. As with all major infrastructure proposals, any decision will be informed by the strength of the evidence.

Although I am not in a position to provide a timetable today, I assure the member that officials are actively engaged in relation to that further update, which will be provided to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Tourism and Transport.

The Government very much recognises the importance of effective transport connections in supporting communities, including those in Falkirk and West Lothian and beyond.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

I thank the Deputy First Minister and the 25 colleagues who asked questions. I apologise to the many whose questions I was unable to take due to time constraints.

Business Motion

A member

17:33

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The next item of business is consideration of business motion S7M-01752, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on a revision to the business programme.

Motion moved,

That the Parliament agrees to the following revision to the programme of business for Thursday 29 October 2026—

after

followed by Scottish Government Debate: Strengthening Scotland’s Public Health Approach to Preventing Alcohol and Drug Deaths

insert

followed by Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Debate: Amendment to Reimbursement of Members’ Expenses Scheme Resolution—[Jamie Hepburn.]

Motion agreed to.

Decision Time

A member

17:33

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There are six questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that if the amendment in the name of Duncan Massey is agreed to, the amendments in the names of Mark Ruskell, Finlay Carson and Sanne Dijkstra-Downie will fall.

The first question is, that amendment S7M-01726.1, in the name of Paul Sweeney, which seeks to amend motion S6M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s commitment to international climate justice, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.

17:34

Meeting suspended.

17:38

On resuming—

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

We come to the vote on amendment S7M-01726.1, in the name of Paul Sweeney. Members should cast their votes now.

The vote is closed.

Adam Harley (Liberal Democrat, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

Your vote has been recorded.

Kayleigh Kinross-O'Neill (Green, Edinburgh and Lothians East)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted yes.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

Thank you. Your vote has been recorded.

The division list for amendment S7M-01726.1 will be inserted as soon as it is available.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on amendment S7M-01726.1, in the name of Paul Sweeney, is: For 91, Against 24, Abstentions 0.

Amendment agreed to.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The next question is, that amendment S7M-01726.2, in the name of Duncan Massey, which seeks to amend motion S6M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s commitment to international climate justice, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

The vote is closed.

Adam Harley (Liberal Democrat, Strathkelvin and Bearsden)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would have voted no.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

Thank you. Your vote has been recorded.

The division list for amendment S7M-01726.2 will be inserted as soon as it is available.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on amendment S7M-01726.2, in the name of Duncan Massey, is: For 14, Against 100, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The next question is, that amendment S7M-01726.5, in the name of Mark Ruskell, which seeks to amend motion S6M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s commitment to international climate justice, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on amendment S7M-01726.5, in the name of Mark Ruskell, is: For 14, Against 24, Abstentions 77.

Amendment disagreed to.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The next question is, that amendment S7M-01726.4, in the name of Finlay Carson, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s commitment to international climate justice, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on amendment S7M-01726.4, in the name of Finlay Carson, is: For 24, Against 91, Abstentions 0.

Amendment disagreed to.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The next question is, that amendment S7M-01726.3, in the name of Sanne Dijkstra-Downie, which seeks to amend motion S7M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s commitment to international climate justice, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on amendment S7M-01726.3, in the name of Sanne Dijkstra-Downie, is: For 91, Against 24, Abstentions 0.

Amendment agreed to.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The final question is, that motion S7M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s contribution to international climate justice, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

There will be a division.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

The result of the division on motion S7M-01726, in the name of Gillian Martin, on Scotland’s contribution to internal climate justice, as amended is: For 91, Against 24, Abstentions 0.

Motion, as amended, agreed to,

That the Parliament reaffirms its commitment to climate justice, accepting that those in the Global South who have done the least to cause climate change are facing the worst impacts; recognises that Scotland’s commitment to play its role in the global response to tackling climate change and biodiversity loss, including addressing climate related loss and damage, is guided by the principles of climate justice, fairness and global solidarity; believes that any overseas development assistance (ODA) should be disbursed with the highest levels of transparency and a focus on maximising its impact; recognises the importance of a just transition to a green economy, both domestically and across Scotland’s international supply chains, to ensure climate justice for all; urges the Scottish Government to advocate at COP31 for rapid progress in scaling up the mobilisation of climate finance, with grant-based finance prioritised over loans to ensure that climate-vulnerable countries are not pushed further into debt as they respond to the climate crisis; believes that there is a strong need to drive down domestic demand for fossil fuels combined with the need to decarbonise heating, transport and industry, and highlights that this must happen in order both to meet net zero objectives and to uphold the commitment to climate justice.

Kenneth Gibson (Presiding Officer, Cunninghame North)

That concludes decision time. I ask members who are not staying for members’ business to leave quietly.

Black History Month(25th Anniversary)

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S7M-01411, in the name of Iris Duane, on celebrating Scotland’s 25th black history month. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.

Motion debated,

That the Parliament recognises and celebrates the 25th anniversary of Black History Month in Scotland across October 2026; acknowledges the contributions of the African and Caribbean diaspora to history in Scotland; welcomes events and initiatives across the country that highlight the important role of African and Caribbean communities and individuals in Scottish history and society; affirms that a person’s skin colour or ethnicity does not define their nationality, intelligence, ambition or character; acknowledges the benefits of fostering a Scotland where individuals of African and Caribbean descent feel proud of their cultural roots alongside their Scottish heritage and history; recognises the theme of the month, Acknowledging Our Communities, and notes the view that work should be carried out towards achieving a Scotland where “Black history” is both acknowledged and simply seen as “Scottish history”, no more or no less.

17:51

Iris Duane (Green, Glasgow)

It really is an honour for me to open the debate, not only as we mark 25 years of black history month in Scotland, but as one of Scotland’s first black MSPs, alongside my Scottish National Party colleague Michelle Campbell MSP. While we may perhaps lament that it took seven sessions of the Parliament to see a black MSP elected when England had elected a black member of Parliament 13 years prior, before we first sat in this chamber, I am thankful, now more than ever, that we have diverse voices around the table. I thank colleagues from across the chamber for supporting my motion and colleagues from the Labour Party for swapping their members’ business debate slot so that we could have this debate today.

Over the past 25 years, all kinds of organisations, communities and individuals have worked tirelessly to ensure that so-called black history is not excluded but told, highlighted and remembered. Such work was never simply about preserving our past but was also about challenging it; making it tangible and reminding us of the human stories behind it; highlighting misconceptions and breaking down barriers; and, at the very least, telling interesting stories that many may not have heard before.

Black history month honours the courage and sacrifice of those from days gone by and celebrates the generations of black Brits and black Scots who have helped to shape the country that we know today, while giving us all an opportunity to pause and reflect on what we want the Scotland of tomorrow to look like. Our history is not something that we ever leave behind—it continues to shape the world that we live in today and reminds us of how far we have yet to go. Today, therefore, let us do just that. Let us evaluate our past, present and future, because, in order to look at our past, we must be willing to acknowledge all of it—not just the parts that we are proud of, but the bits that continue to make us a little bit uncomfortable.

I was, like the rest of us, absolutely blown away by the National Theatre’s performance at the state opening of Parliament, which highlighted that. Although I am certainly not as talented as those amazing young people, their point remains salient. There is no disputing that the city of Glasgow—the city that I am ever so proud of, which chose to send me here, as one of Scotland’s first black MSPs—was the second city of our former empire. The street corners are adorned with the names of those whose wealth relied on the slave trade, and our history is deeply intertwined with suffering and pain. Yet, alongside that, we see a history of resistance and hope.

It was students in the city who organised at the University of Glasgow to formally petition the British Parliament to abolish the slave trade. Quite literally around the corner from my constituency office, the famous Frederick Douglass—yes, that Frederick Douglass—spent his time living and working to destroy the American slave trade. The same city gave the world its first international black football player in Andrew Watson, who in 1881, 245 years ago, debuted as a player for the Scotland team—a team that he would go on to lead and that, under his leadership, decisively beat the England team in the heaviest defeat that they have ever faced on their home turf.

James McCune Smith, the first free slave to receive a medical degree, did so in Scotland. At the height of apartheid, it was Glasgow that gave Nelson Mandela the freedom of the city. From more than 700 years ago, there are records of black ladies-in-waiting based around the corner in Edinburgh castle. Jessie Margaret Soga was a biracial Scot who, despite facing racial discrimination all her life, became a music teacher and a prominent suffragist activist in Glasgow.

Those are just a few names among thousands, who, like their fellow countrymen, worked to build a better future for all, no matter their race, subsumed in a sea of many names that we may never know nor hear about. I am sure that, like me, all those individuals, while they were made very much aware of their skin colour by racists and bad actors, saw themselves as no different from anybody else and, in many cases, were confused about just what all the fuss was about.

Colleagues, do we seriously believe that melanin levels can account for someone’s character? Do we believe that the colour of our skin holds us back, or is it the structures that we have allowed to discriminate? The names that I have cited make the history so very tangible, yet, 700 years on from black people sitting in our palaces, we are still seeing such discrimination every day. While today is an occasion for celebration and to reflect on our shared past, it would be remiss of me not to take the opportunity to speak on the realities of being black in Scotland today.

When I was growing up, I was told that things were getting better—that racism and prejudice would likely become a thing of the past and that my parents and grandparents had fought a battle so that I would not have to do so. I no longer believe that that is true. Things have got worse. The antiracist world that I thought we had secured has evaporated, and now it too often feels like content that we would have been uncomfortable seeing 10 years ago is part of everyday life.

This summer, we saw how ugly that hatred has become. We saw, in broad daylight, a litany of attacks on people just for the colour of their skin, accused of wrongdoing for being the wrong colour in the wrong place, and masked crowds marauding around our city and our towns, intent on causing fear and intimidation. That is not happening somewhere far away, nor is it happening in our history. I, alongside activists and some of my fellow regional MSPs, including my fellow MSP Holly Bruce, stood and watched as masked men threw up Nazi salutes during a protest at the weekend in Stepps. After generations of minorities fighting so hard to be seen as equals, it too often feels like we are fighting that same battle now.

We cannot ignore—although I have tried—the role that rhetoric from political actors and politicians has had in embracing and emboldening that. Just weeks ago, we had to watch as a former Home Secretary and now Reform MP tried to explain to a black man on television why he could never be English. Not too long ago, another MP said that she was sick of seeing black and brown faces on TV. Even in this very Parliament, we have heard a ridiculous challenge to the idea that we must teach our children not to be racist. I take particular offence at that remark. I found out that I was black when I was four years old, when another child used a racial slur against me. Racism is taught—it is not inbred—and we must fight every single day to destroy it.

Following my election, the dark corners of the internet lit up with glee at the idea of deporting me—the “remigration”, as they call it—despite the fact that not only was I born here, but my grandparents were born here, too. Let us be clear today, in the chamber, and remind our country that racism will never be tolerated and we will continue to fight for a better future together.

As we look towards the horizon and celebrate this black history month, let us all look beyond the past and present and towards our shared future. Perhaps, 25 years from now, a contemporary of ours will be standing here, lamenting 50 years of black history month. Perhaps politicians will still be using dog-whistle politics and racism to bolster their careers. Perhaps our streets will once again flood with masked men, and perhaps those with different skin colours will continue to cower in fear.

Alternatively, we can imagine a different future—a future where nobody is defined by their skin colour, where no group or politician thinks that it is popular to place communities against each other and where we no longer need to have a black history month, because our history is seen as shared and many centuries have gone by.

In my past, I was once a child who was made to feel as though their race would always define them. In my present, I continue to work to make sure that that is not the case, so that, in our future, no other child will feel the same. To me, that is the importance of raising black history month in the chamber. I have said before that I hope to live in a Scotland where black history month is no longer necessary, not because black history should be forgotten, but because it should be recognised as being just Scottish history. That is not the Scotland that we live in today—I know that from my own experience—but I hope that, in my lifetime, it is a Scotland that we will all build together.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

I call Karen Adam, to be followed by Victor Currie. I remind members that the time limit for speeches in members’ business debates is four minutes.

17:59

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

I thank Iris Duane and congratulate her on bringing the debate to the chamber. Scotland should always be a country that celebrates our rich diversity and recognises our history, and I will always stand up for that. Those of us who are not black have a responsibility not only to challenge racism but also, and most importantly, to listen. We must hear those who experience it and let that shape what we do.

I wanted to do more listening than speaking, so I asked Councillor Fatima Joji, who is a member of my staff team, to help me with this speech, and she put a great deal of thought into it. Much of it will be her own words and I want to give her the credit that she deserves.

Fatima was born and raised in Scotland and still lives in the town where she grew up. Scotland is her home and I will not allow rhetoric that seeks to exclude her or our black Scottish communities, or to tell them that they cannot call themselves Scottish or that they must justify their place here. I have challenged, and will continue to challenge, such rhetoric in Parliament and beyond.

Fatima explained that being black and Scottish means that both parts of her identity belong together. Black history is a part of Scottish history, but it is not always taught or recognised in the way that it should be. For Fatima, black history month is about belonging and making sure that future generations grow up knowing that black people have always been a part of Scotland’s story and that they have every right to feel proud of being both black and Scottish. She also spoke about how Scotland and white allies, in particular, can honour black history month. She began with a phrase that we often hear: it is not enough not to be racist—we must be antiracist.

No country is immune to racism. It can be institutional and structural, manifesting through bias and prejudice and leading to unequal outcomes simply because of the colour of someone’s skin. Being antiracist means standing up for racial justice, because racism is not something that exists only in the past. It exists in the present, but it can be challenged, and black history month empowers us all to do that. It means challenging our own biases, educating ourselves and refusing to remain silent when we witness racism. It means dismantling the systems and structures that create and reinforce injustice and racial inequality. There is little more damaging to a society than division, and we can use this month to ask ourselves whether we are doing enough and what more we can do.

Black History Month Scotland reminds us that one month is not enough and that these stories remain largely absent from our history books. I want a Scotland that recognises the rich history and valuable contributions of people from the African and Caribbean diasporas in Scotland, but I want to stress something important. Our black communities should simply be able to be—they should not have to earn the right to be Scottish through extraordinary achievements or high-profile positions. Some work on zero-hours contracts; some work in our national health service; some run businesses, raise children and care about the bread-and-butter issues that affect us all. Being Scottish should not depend on extraordinary achievements or public recognition, or on anyone else’s approval. Black Scots are part of the fabric of our country and their place in Scotland should never be in question.

I hope that, one day, Councillor Fatima Joji will stand in the chamber as Fatima Joji MSP, delivering her own speech in her own words. We need more black voices in the Parliament, each bringing their own experiences, ideas and ambitions for Scotland’s future. I want to see a Scotland where racism is rooted out, where inequality is inexcusable and where injustice is intolerable.

18:03

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

I thank the member for bringing the motion to the chamber for debate.

I open by stating that I believe that the unification of our world’s countries, whether that happens in decades’ or centuries’ time, is the ultimate political and constitutional settlement that all decent politicians and public leaders should be working towards. Why? It is because I find the idea that, in a thousand years’ time, this planet will remain a collection of separate squabbling territorial entities to be a depressing and somewhat unimaginative prospect. I try to use that as a lens through which to assess any piece of legislation or motion that comes before us. I must ask, therefore, does black history month bring people together or divide them? Looking through that prism, I cannot support the motion in its entirety.

I recognise whole-heartedly that the idea underpinning the motion comes from a place of compassion and is an attempt to involve and include peoples and cultures that are not statistically mainstream. However, from an educational perspective, such a framework has the potential to do some harmful things. First, we must define that which is seen to be black and that which is not. That means that, when we are teaching through such a prism in schools, at a very young age and at a very early stage in development, we place a dividing line between our pupils, between those who fall into one category and those who do not.

Iris Duane (Green, Glasgow)

I recognise the member’s fear that teaching children to not be racist might somehow accidentally make them racist. Unfortunately, however, the fact of the matter is that racists and those who learn from them tend to know what black is, and it is the others who do not. Antiracism education often finds itself equipping people to resist that, and children often do not know better. Does the member accept that there is no need to say that there is an arbitrary dividing line when, unfortunately, those of us who sit on the other side of it know from a very young age that there is?

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

I would draw upon the member’s own remarks in saying that we ought to move towards a time when we are not assessed, divided or judged on the basis of how much melanin is in one’s skin. My perspective is that we can get there and counter racism only by not doubling down and consolidating that division. I might answer that point in a more developed manner further on in my speech, but I will be happy to take a further intervention later if I do not adequately cover it.

From my perspective, placing that division in our classroom can only consolidate and reinforce it as our young pupils progress through life. Further, I feel that that approach reinforces the idea that one cannot engage in historical learning unless one feels that one is represented in that historical material on the basis of what ought to be a superficial attribute. For the sake of our youth and the world that they will, in time, help to crystallise, we must move towards a human concept whereby the concentration of melanin in skin is just one tiny factor in a vast range of attributes that make up a human being.

There are lessons of value to be found throughout history in every area of our world’s geography, and thus it is not beyond our ability to find examples of historical importance that can be included in our mainstream historical education without having to sequester one part of it for a single month. To single out a genre of history on the basis of ethnicity is, to my mind, a form of academic apartheid, so I welcome the spirit of the motion—that it can be integrated into a normal educational curriculum.

If the argument is to be made that the teaching of history can help new groups to integrate and feel a sense of belonging, it is all the more important that positive elements of the past—

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

Will the member take an intervention?

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

Yes.

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

It is tough to decide what exact point to intervene on here. The member just said “new groups”. Most of his speech entirely misses the fact that these are not new groups. We are living in a society where there is systemic bias. Racism is baked in, not just in education but across our public services, and we will not overcome that by doing nothing and failing to challenge it.

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

I completely accept that one cannot do nothing. I am arguing that we should not do something that is even more harmful and that further defines people on the basis of ethnicity.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Inverclyde)

As a white guy listening to what Mr Currie has been saying, I find that comment regarding people who are not white deeply offensive. Mr Currie, you need to think more about your comments, how you act and how you deal with the situation that we are facing.

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

Thank you. I will ask my Indian mother what her perspective is on my comments in tonight’s debate and for a full answer and reflection on my comments.

If the argument is to be made that the teaching of history can help new groups to integrate—[Interruption.]

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

The member will need to bring his remarks to a close.

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

I feel that it is more important to reinforce positive elements of past history and ensure that they are shown, so that the good that this country has done is celebrated; that newly arrived communities have a real sense of being able to buy into what has come before; and that we can therefore move to a future that is more tranquil, harmonious and unified and that goes beyond simply the colour of one’s skin.

18:10

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

I offer huge thanks to my colleague and friend Iris Duane for giving us the opportunity to debate black history month. Iris Duane has herself made history, being one of two black people elected to our Scottish Parliament—only 27 years too late.

I prepared some words for the debate that reflect some of the wonderful diversity in my region, but I feel that it is important—and incumbent on me, as an antiracist, antifascist campaigner and activist—to acknowledge the pain that the previous speech will have caused people. I think that it is absolutely outrageous that those words have been spoken in the Parliament, and I disassociate myself from them utterly and completely.

As black history month celebrates its 25th anniversary in Scotland, it is clear—

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

Will the member give way?

Maggie Chapman (Green, North East Scotland)

No—the member has said more than enough.

It is clear that we need black history month now more than ever. This year, we have seen far-right rallies in our cities and racist attacks on our people who are simply going about their business being who they are. That is all the more reason to celebrate the incredible contributions that have been made by Scots of colour. They include people such as Emeli Sandé, who was raised in Alford, in Aberdeenshire. A bisexual woman of colour, she has won four Brit awards, and her debut studio album, “Our Version of Events”, made UK chart history for the most consecutive weeks spent in the top 10. They also include people like Jainti Saggar. Born in Deharru, in India, he settled in Dundee in 1919, qualified as a physician and ophthalmologist and contributed hugely to the health and wealth of the city, opening a psychiatric clinic to pioneer new mental health treatments. He went on to become the first-ever person of colour elected to local government in Scotland. He was described as

“A man of compassion for everyone in need … he came to Dundee from halfway across the world but no son of Dundee had greater love for its people”.

I was struck by that quote. No matter where he came from, he was regarded as a Dundonian, and his achievements are not just part of Dundee’s black history but part of our history and of the history of that city.

Iris Duane’s motion recognises that. She is absolutely right to call for “Black history” to be seen as “Scottish history”, but what do we need to do to ensure that? We need to challenge the poisonous narrative of the far right that migration is a problem and that migrants are somehow other. They are not. We must challenge the notion that migration somehow endangers what some would call “our way of life” in Scotland. It does not—it is quite the opposite. People from around the world have settled in Scotland and made it a better place. They have enriched our culture and made us more diverse and outward looking. They have become truly Scottish and part of our society. People like me, from around the world, are part of that diversity, too. We should recognise the wonderful diversity that humanity contains, which is part of Scotland’s history.

As this year’s black history month highlights, people of colour have contributed not only as leaders in the arts, science, medicine and education but in the everyday life of our country as teachers, nurses, carers, volunteers, friends, faith leaders and community activists—as human beings. However, recognising black history as our history involves not just celebrating the achievements but confronting our country’s past involvement in colonialism and slavery and the present experience of racism and inequality, and admitting that our wealth was built on slavery. In Dundee, for example, the linen trade relied on exporting osnaburg—a cheap, coarse cloth—in huge quantities to clothe enslaved plantation workers, probably very uncomfortably.

As part of black history month, University of Dundee museums staff are, tomorrow, organising “Breaking the Chains”, a slavery walking tour of the city, which will show how slavery was central to much of Dundee’s economy. However, those injustices are not just in our past; they are present now, every day, too. They have a legacy in the high rates of poverty faced by children of colour, who are more than twice as likely to be in poverty, and in the homelessness rate among people of colour, which is two and a half times the rate among white people.

Black history month reminds us that the achievements and contributions of people of colour to Scotland have often happened in spite of racism, inequality and discrimination. It is our job to remember that as we work towards a country where everyone is loved, valued and welcomed regardless of the colour of their skin. That is our job today, and it requires us to reject the racist comments that we have heard in the chamber this evening.

18:15

Miles Briggs (Conservative, Edinburgh and Lothians East)

I thank Iris Duane for bringing this members’ business debate to the chamber on the 25th anniversary of Scotland’s black history month. It was back in 2001 that the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights first co-ordinated black history month across Scotland, and I pay tribute to those who have, over the years, helped to shape events.

It has always been a privilege for me to join in these debates to recognise and celebrate the achievements, contributions and enduring legacy of people of colour across Scotland and the United Kingdom and around the world. Black history month offers us all a moment to look back at our shared history; to reflect on what we have come from and the values that we share; and to look forward to deciding what sort of country we want to be. However, that does not mean that we shirk our responsibilities in being held accountable for the injustices of the past. We need to be honest about those injustices and learn from them, not erase them from our history. As an example, as we have heard, we cannot hide from Scotland’s past connections to slavery and the exploitation of black people.

Black history can best be seen in the contributions of black Scots across society in Scotland. Black Scots have built businesses, excelled in sports and the arts and helped to shape modern Scotland. I will use this opportunity to personally pay tribute to the late and great Professor Sir Geoff Palmer, whom many in the chamber will have known. I know that the Minister for Equalities and International Development, as an Edinburgh MSP, will have known him well. Geoff was Scotland's first black professor, appointed in 1989 at Heriot-Watt University, and he earned his PhD in grain science jointly at the University of Edinburgh and Heriot-Watt University. Over the past 10 years, while serving as an MSP, I had many wonderful conversations with Geoff, and his passing has left a huge void in our community in Edinburgh.

I was always interested in hearing Geoff’s views on history and on the matter of controversial statues, which has often played out through the press in Lothian. He was quite open and honest in saying that he saw those statues as part of black history. I remember that, in a conversation that I had with him, he was insistent that we, in Scotland, as a society, need to take down racism, not those statues, and to learn and make sure that those who come after us understand our history and do not try to erase it.

Edinburgh, as Scotland’s capital city, has been one of the places in Scotland that have benefited most from the contribution of black Scots, particularly in our cultural and academic spheres. We should rightly be proud of them and of people from all backgrounds who have given back to Scotland in so many ways.

I hope that, in this debate, we can pose a question: are we doing enough to ensure that everyone in Scotland, regardless of their background or their colour, is being given a fair and equal opportunity to succeed? If we are truly to aspire to be the kind of country that we want to be, we need to listen to the experiences of black people, so that we can better understand the society that we need to build. It is vital that we engage with one another to tackle discrimination and inequalities wherever we find them.

I know, from the many conversations that I have had since returning to the health portfolio in Parliament, that limited progress has been made in many areas in tackling existing health inequalities and language barriers to improve health outcomes for our black and minority ethnic communities.

It is easy to dismiss black history month as just another date in the diary, as we have heard. Regardless of colour, we have a shared history among us that binds us and that we should celebrate. Tonight, therefore, let us celebrate the achievements of those who came before us and those still to come. I hope that we can be proud of the tolerant society that we have built and of those who have chosen to make this country their home. Together, we can be honest about our past and confident about our future.

18:20

Emma Roddick (Scottish National Party, Inverness and Nairn)

I thank Iris Duane for bringing this debate to the chamber. It is important that we have this debate.

Unfortunately, I listened to Victor Currie’s speech. I went back to double-check the motion, just in case I was misremembering it, but I was not. It is such a shame that a black woman still has to be brave to bring something so simple to this chamber. Frankly, Victor Currie’s speech was a disgrace and I regret that it happened.

Although I am proud of Inverness’s response to Black Lives Matter, which displayed many creative and Covid-safe pieces of protest in the city centre, sadly, the other parts of local black history that immediately came to mind when I was thinking about what to discuss this evening are neither pleasant nor a point of pride.

Travelling through Inverness and the Highlands, you will find a great number of buildings and streets that were built with money from sugar and slavery, as is the case in much of Scotland. Only a few years ago, I was explaining to a friend what I hoped would come of work that I was doing on an antiracism observatory in Scotland. She said, “That’s a reach. Why would we need that? That’s an American problem.” So, I recommended a couple of books to her. The first is “Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race” and the second is “No Problem Here: Racism in Scotland”. If anybody listening to this speech is also unfamiliar with either of those books, I highly recommend them—the first because it may save some people of colour in your life an exhausting conversation and the second because I think that my pal’s response is, in fact, quite a common one. That is a mark of failure in our education and our society in general, given Scotland’s role in slavery and the lived experience of black peers here and now.

I often hear—and have often said—that Scotland is a welcoming nation with a proud history of migration. I say that not because I believe that we are in any way free from racism or racists, but because I believe that we need to lead from the front. I do not want those who seek refuge in Scotland to hear otherwise, and I hope that they more often interact with those people and organisations—which I know exist across our country—that make every effort to welcome new Scots. I do not want children of colour to grow up in Scotland feeling that their elected representatives do not see them or do not care. Like everyone, I am always learning and I will consider whether my presentation of that needs to change in recognition of the continued poor experiences that exist.

My little sister travelled down from Inverness to Parliament with me today—happy birthday, Sophie!—and I was telling her about having to write this speech this afternoon. She said that she would never intentionally be racist, and I can attest that she is not the type. However, she asked whether there was training or a course on unconscious racism that she could take, and how she could do better. I am really proud of her for that reaction and of her intention to be antiracist as well as simply not racist. I encourage all my colleagues to look into whether they can do the same.

I have taken an unconscious bias course, led by Aberdeen activist Fiona Robertson, and I think about it very often. We all have biases—that is natural. However, if any person believes that they and their thinking and their perceptions of others—be they people or ideas—are free from the systemic racism that exists in this country, the sad truth is that they are, as a result, unable to challenge it within themselves. It is not a personal failure to live in a country that has systemic racism or to grow up influenced by those ideas, but I believe that it is a personal failure when people do not then take responsibility for learning and doing better.

We will not make progress for people of colour in Scotland without being actively antiracist in our schools, in our streets and in this chamber. Let us learn from history and from the present, and let us create the future that Iris Duane described—a better future for people of colour in Scotland.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

Due to the number of members who wish to speak in the debate, I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 8.14.3, to extend the debate by up to 30 minutes. I invite Iris Duane to move such a motion without notice.

Motion moved,

That, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended by up to 30 minutes.—[Iris Duane]

Motion agreed to.

18:24

Cara McKee (Green, West Scotland)

I thank my colleague Iris Duane for bringing this hugely important debate to the chamber. Black history month is a time to reflect and honour the achievements of black people, whose contributions are often erased or not acknowledged.

Scotland is lucky to be home to a diverse population of black and minority ethnic communities, and they deserve to be recognised and celebrated. Across the UK, the hard work and dedication of black people has played a huge role in our social care system. Many are descended from the Windrush generation, who came to the UK from 1948 to 1971 to fill crucial gaps in the workforce, particularly in the NHS. That wave of immigration has significantly and positively shaped our health and social care services.

Today, black and minority ethnic people make up 12 per cent of the care-at-home workforce and 16 per cent of care home staff in Scotland. Despite how important that work is, they often do not receive the appreciation that they rightfully deserve. It is no secret that the social care sector is in crisis, yet divisive rhetoric, racist language and harmful policies such as the UK Government’s decision to close the care worker visa route are contributing to an often hostile and unwelcoming environment for many black and minority ethnic care workers who want to work in Scotland. That devalues the hard work of so many people.

The way in which we talk about and treat those at the heart of our social care system must change. I will highlight an incredible project that aims to amplify the voices of the black and minority ethnic care workforce. Scotland—Who Cares? is a project that was begun in 2023 by Neo Vilakazi. The project recognises and preserves the vital contributions of black and minority ethnic care workers in Scotland. Interviews were conducted with community members about their experiences in a moving documentary, which I encourage all members to take the time to watch. Care workers talked about the discrimination that they often faced while simply doing their job. Many also said that the long and stressful work hours left them feeling as though they had very little time to themselves. Despite that, many spoke of the satisfaction that they got from their work, especially when that work was valued and appreciated.

Research shows that black and minority ethnic people in Scotland receive, on average, lower pay than white people, leading to higher rates of poverty. That is particularly an issue in the social care sector, where most workers earn just above the minimum wage for that skilled and challenging work.

I will finish my speech by quoting Blessing, one of the participants in the Scotland—Who Cares? project. They said:

“When you are appreciated, when you feel seen, you will have the spirit to do more. When you are valued, you have the strength to keep grinding. But when you see that nobody notices you, nobody notices what you do, the work you put out there—even as little as it may sound, ‘thank you’ has a way to permeate. It goes a long way in lifting souls. You feel, oh I’m being appreciated, there is need for me to do more ... So, if you’re valued, you have the strength, the drive to do more”.

This black history month, let us not let those voices go unheard. We see you and the work that you do, and I will do all that I can to make sure that Scotland is a fairer and more equal place for all black and minority ethnic carers, paid and unpaid, and for the wider communities, too.

18:29

Holly Bruce (Green, Glasgow Southside)

I thank my colleague Iris Duane for bringing this debate on black history month to Parliament, and I would like to start my speech by celebrating her. Iris is one of the first black MSPs in our Parliament. She is an asset to this chamber, to the Scottish Greens and to the people of Glasgow. Her work will be celebrated in years to come as a pivotal step in Scotland’s black history story. I was proud to stand beside Iris at the Buchanan steps in June—the day on which Glasgow sent the far right packing—and I will continue to stand alongside her to represent oppressed voices everywhere.

As Iris pointed out, this debate is an opportunity for us to talk about the kind of society that we want to live in and to recognise those who are working to create the antiracist future that Scotland needs. I directly challenge Victor Currie’s remarks earlier. How is he being an antiracist MSP in this Parliament when, apparently, he needs no further education on the matter?

As a representative of Glasgow Southside, one of Scotland’s most culturally diverse constituencies, I hear from organisations that are doing pivotal work to make people of all backgrounds feel safe, heard and welcome. Just yesterday, I met the Youth Community Support Agency—a local organisation that is working to support black, refugee and asylum-seeking young people through direct engagement in schools and the wider community. I was told about its work with young black people, which ranges from family support to planning football tournaments and hosting free art psychotherapy sessions for survivors. I was also told about a young mixed-race person who was referred to its art therapy sessions after an attempt to take their own life. The participant said:

“Art therapy is useful because I can relax, make art and talk about things with someone who listens and understands.”

That is a simple act of care, and I am humbled to be reminded that it is that kind of grass-roots youth work for people of colour that truly saves lives.

There are many doing similar work in the southside and across Glasgow. As Miles Briggs indicated, over the past 25 years, the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights has run black history walking tours in which participants explore how today’s built environment reveals Glasgow’s connections to tobacco, sugar, slavery and the abolition movement. That is a great example of what it means to recognise the generational harm that remains from Glasgow’s colonial legacy, to educate ourselves and others, and to work to repair our society in the here and now.

A quote that I often come back to in my work is from Audré Lorde, a black American lesbian feminist writer and professor. She wrote that

“the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.”

Lorde said that back in 1979, as a critique of white-dominated so-called feminist spaces that ignored class, race and sexuality. She argued that, if we ignore that full picture, we fall far short.

That is the crux of my feminism. Learning from black feminists such as Audré Lorde has taught me that, for societal change to truly be transformational and long lasting, we must beat the master at his own game. We must recognise that oppressive systems cannot truly change if we do not find tools to break down the current system while building the just and equal world that we all want to see. Ultimately, we must use the tools that those who seek to divide us do not have. For me, that is empathy. When I look at the work being done in Glasgow Southside by and in solidarity with black people, I see kindness and care for everyone. I see humanity.

18:33

Irshad Ahmed (Labour, Edinburgh and Lothians East)

I thank Iris Duane for giving me and other colleagues a chance to celebrate black history month—a celebration of culture that reminds us how much Afro-Caribbean culture is thriving in Scotland; a celebration that has arrived and is here to stay. Over several generations, people from African and Afro-Caribbean communities have chosen to live in Scotland and have felt welcome in our neighbourhoods. Some have become famous as musicians or actors, and far more have led normal lives, working as teachers, scientists, carers or civil servants.

When the movement began, Scotland was much less diverse. Let us not forget that black communities are still a small minority of the population at about 1 per cent—a lot of people have told me how hard they find that to believe. It is essential that a settled Scottish identity is available for everyone who lives here and that being black—or, in my case, Asian—does not stop people feeling Scottish in their heart or being seen in that way.

I know that people in white Scottish communities can fear that new cultures will replace the old Scottish culture, but they must not be fooled by people who label things a crisis and blame others on the basis of their appearance. Sadly, for some, the ceiling of our expectations as black and brown Scots is to be seen as strangers, even when our neighbours and colleagues know us as friends.

This anniversary is also a reminder of how successful black culture has been and that many warm words are not needed. From a thriving music scene to sporting icons, black culture has crossed every class and cultural divide. Black culture is now part of Scottish life, and it makes no sense for people to celebrate black cultural icons in the Scottish Premier League or at a music festival and yet demonise people who look different from them on their high street or in pubs.

When we celebrate our diversity, we must also acknowledge the challenges that many people still face. It will not surprise any of the MSPs in this debate when I say that I have received hate online, as many MSPs do. How much more hate is there for the first black Doctor Who or the first black James Bond? Racism has no place in modern Scotland, and no one should feel unsafe on our streets because of who they are. It is revealing how many famous black Scots have first-hand experience of racist abuse or even assault.

The theme of this year’s event is “Honouring our Communities”. To return to my own experience of 30 years in Scotland, it is amazing how acts of kindness have made me feel at home here. Everyone in this Parliament has the power to make people feel that they belong.

With nearly 4,000 charges relating to race crime last year—the highest level in 11 years—the question remains: what story will young black Scots hear about the future that they can have in Scotland?

18:37

Graham Simpson (Reform UK, Central Scotland and Lothians West)

I will start by saying how much I enjoyed that speech by Irshad Ahmed—it was very powerful. I also congratulate Iris Duane for securing this debate. I thought that her speech was excellent, and I agree with every single word of the motion.

The 25anniversary of black history month in Scotland is an opportunity to recognise and celebrate the contributions that people of African and Caribbean descent have made and continue to make to our country. Those contributions can be seen throughout Scottish society, including in our culture, businesses, public services, education, sport and local communities. They are an important part of Scotland’s story and they deserve recognition throughout the year, not just in October.

People of African and Caribbean descent are also part of the UK’s story. I spent a few years of my early childhood at school in the Manchester area, where I went to school with black pupils, one of whom was one of my best friends. He and others suffered appalling racism in the early 1970s. Seeing that shaped me, because I knew that it was wrong then and I know that it is wrong now. It is appalling to hear, from people like Iris Duane, that it is still going on and that it may have got worse—I had hoped that, in the intervening period, that would not have been the case.

Karen Adam (Scottish National Party, Banffshire and Buchan Coast)

I thank the member for his opening words. A member of my staff, Councillor Fatima Joji, has just messaged me to say that the earlier words of the member’s colleague Vic Currie were absolutely appalling and disgusting. Not only that, she said that his words make her afraid—afraid. Will the member absolutely disassociate himself from the words of his Reform colleague and the points that he made earlier?

Graham Simpson (Reform UK, Central Scotland and Lothians West)

I thank the member for the intervention. I am responsible for my own words and I hope that Fatima, if she listens to me, will be encouraged by what I have to say and will not feel under threat because of anything that I say.

We should celebrate the diversity that we have in this country, which is why the theme of this year’s black history month—“Acknowledging our Communities”—is particularly fitting.

Prior to the election, I was lucky enough to meet Dr Enoch Adeyemi, who was the founder of Black Professionals Scotland, which is a vibrant organisation that is committed to promoting diversity. Enoch is a hugely impressive individual, and I have been reflecting during the debate that maybe we should have Enoch and his organisation along to the Parliament. It would be good to hear from him.

Being Scottish should never be defined by the colour of someone’s skin or their ethnic background. The motion makes an important point when it says that black history should be recognised as simply Scottish history. It should not be treated as something separate from our national story. The experiences, lives and achievements of African and Caribbean communities are part of Scotland’s past and present. Ultimately, I want to live in a society that is blind to colour and that celebrates the contribution of black, Asian and minority ethnic people to Britain. All of us here should agree with that.

Whatever our skin colour, our blood is the same and our hearts beat just the same. We are here to serve the people, wherever they might be from. Events taking place across Scotland this month are valuable opportunities to share stories, bring communities together and help younger generations to understand the many people and experiences that have shaped our country.

I welcome the 25th anniversary of black history month in Scotland and I support the sentiment behind the motion. Our aim should be to have a Scotland where black history is recognised for what it is—an integral part of Scottish history.

18:43

Claire Baker (Labour, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am pleased to take part in the debate. It has been a really interesting discussion. I thank Iris Duane for lodging a motion that celebrates and highlights the history of black Scots. She talked about sportsmen, intellectuals and community activists, and other members, including Miles Briggs, talked about important intellectuals and other people from the black community whom we must value in Scotland.

Maggie Chapman mentioned Emeli Sandé. At the sports personality of the year awards in Aberdeen, I sat next to a very distinguished retired couple and had a conversation with them. They said that their daughter was in the show. I asked whether she was one of the dancers, but they said no, it was Emeli Sandé. It was a very nice evening and Emeli Sandé’s performance was amazing.

It is heartbreaking to hear Iris Duane talk about things getting worse—heartbreaking but not unexpected. We live in an increasingly divided society, but it is about what we do in response. Those of us on the left who have struggled through difficult times recognise that battles always have to be re-fought and re-won, unfortunately. There are always people who will benefit from stoking division. Unfortunately, that is increasingly the kind of world that we are living in.

Earlier this year, young men with swastikas gathered in the square in Kirkcaldy town centre, and I raised that issue with the minister at the time. We know that groups of young people have been radicalised. Simple solutions and prejudices are being fed to this generation’s young people, for whom the world is often complicated and difficult to address and find their place in. We need to focus on that and put funding into those areas, to address the threat and the way that young people’s thinking has too often been influenced. We need to provide services and diversions for those young people.

Emma Roddick talked about how we have to be actively antiracist. We cannot be complacent—we have to recognise that there is a threat in our society and think about how we deal with it. We need to ensure that our services and authorities are not institutionally racist. Too often in the Scottish Parliament we hear reports of racism in organisations such as sporting organisations and in services. Miles Briggs talked about a lack of progress in the health service, and we see the same in education and employment. There is intentional and unintentional racism, so how do we address that?

The inquiry into the death of Sheku Bayoh in Kirkcaldy is still to conclude. Through that inquiry, I have supported Sheku’s family while they have been subjected, at times, to coded and uncoded racism. The inquiry is considering the role that race played in the events that happened. It will be important for us all to consider the inquiry’s outcome, because the vast majority of members want to see a society that is antiracist and where everybody feels safe and included and has equal opportunities. This month is a good chance for us to affirm that and to celebrate black Scots across the generations.

18:46

George Adam (Scottish National Party, Paisley)

I thank Iris Duane for bringing the debate to the chamber. I was not going to speak, as the Presiding Officer knows because I pressed my button only seconds ago. However, as I listened to the debate, I felt that I had something to say.

I am proud to speak in the debate celebrating black history month, but I feel compelled to ground my contribution in a reality check, following some of the comments that we heard from a Reform member. Tonight, it has been suggested that highlighting black history divides us. It was also claimed that teaching our children about the evils of racism is somehow unnecessary and harmful.

I will take members back in time, although some of them might be too young to remember this—

Victor Currie (Reform UK, Highlands and Islands)

Will the member take an intervention?

George Adam (Scottish National Party, Paisley)

I do not want to hear any more from the member.

I will take members back to Love Street in Paisley on Wednesday 14 September 1983. I was there as a 10-year-old, excitedly waiting to see my team play Feyenoord in the UEFA cup. I was there to see the legendary Johan Cruyff, but instead I witnessed a 21-year-old genius, Ruud Gullit, who was absolutely incredible that night and scored the winning goal. However, what stayed with me and was burned into the memory of that 10-year-old white Scottish boy was not the football but the unadulterated, sickening torrent of racial abuse that sections of our own support in Paisley directed at that young man. He was booed, jeered at and openly spat on purely because of the colour of his skin. Ruud Gullit later wrote in his autobiography that that night in Paisley was the first time that he had experienced raw, on-the-pitch racism. He called it the saddest night in his life. The saddest night in that global icon’s life happened in my home town in Scotland—in Paisley. As a 10-year-old, I heard it and was aware of it. It shocked me, but it did not divide me from my community—it woke me up and taught me, right there and then, that we have to do and be better.

That is why black history month matters. It is about teaching our children about racism. If we do not teach our children about racism being an act of evil, we leave them vulnerable to repeating the sins of our past. Ruud Gullit’s experience in Paisley is part of Scottish history. It is a shameful part but an educational one. We cannot educate the next generation by whitewashing the past or pretending that prejudice does not exist. We do it by approaching it face on, learning from it and resolving to do and be better. Let us not continue to make the same mistakes from the past. It is time for all of us to look at ourselves and be better.

18:49

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Inverclyde)

Like George Adam, I wanted just to listen to the debate, but I do have a couple of comments that I want to put on the record. First of all, though, I thank Iris Duane for lodging the motion and securing the debate, and I apologise for my wee outburst earlier.

We need to do better, as George Adam has just said, and in that respect I want to make a couple of points. First, I would just highlight my final comment at this year’s count in Greenock, which was that everyone on that stage needed to remember that Inverclyde’s history was based on immigration and emigration. Sadly, that history is intrinsically linked with the transatlantic slave trade. Greenock and Port Glasgow, like Glasgow, profited from that heinous industry. Whether we are talking about sugar, tobacco or cotton, my community benefited hugely from it in the past, and, if you walk around Greenock, you will see the names of some of the streets telling that very tale.

Miles Briggs talked earlier about the need to engage with our history, and I absolutely agree with him. Members will recall that, in the previous session, the Scottish Government started some work on empire and slavery. It would be helpful if the minister could provide an update on what is happening with that, as there seems to have been a bit of a delay.

I just want to make one more local point. One of the consequences of new Scots coming to Inverclyde is the formation of an Inverclyde African group. It comprises more than 500 people living in the area, and I warmly welcome every single one of them. They enhance my community and Inverclyde itself, and they are making a positive contribution. That is hugely important for Inverclyde.

George Adam talked about football. Now, people will know what type of person I am—I am quite mild mannered and it takes quite a bit to get me riled. My wife and I once went to a match between Scotland and Lithuania at Hampden. It was the first time that she had ever come to a football match with me, and it was the last, as a consequence of what happened that night. Six of us were sitting there, with six lads sitting in front. One of them had clearly had quite a few drinks, and he started shouting racist comments about an England footballer. First of all, what he was saying was fundamentally wrong. Secondly, we were playing Lithuania, so what did it have to do with that particular match? I thought, “Did I hear him right?”, and then he said it again. I leaned over, tapped him on the shoulder and said, “If you say that again, I’m going to get you thrown out.” It created a bit of a stir, to say the least, and three of us—the three guys—stood up. Thankfully, one of my pals is 6 foot 5 and a Highlander, and we were already sitting a level above them, so the guys in front of us got quite scared. However, I find it horrendous that one of our fans would think that that was the right thing to do and I had no qualms whatever about challenging him—it was the right thing to do.

Graham Simpson (Reform UK, Central Scotland and Lothians West)

I thank Stuart McMillan for sharing that story. I do not know when the match that he attended took place, but George Adam told us when the match that he attended was. Would Stuart McMillan agree that we have certainly had racism in football, which is why Show Racism the Red Card has been so important? I think that things have improved, but that might not be the case at football matches, so we might need to address that matter further.

Stuart McMillan (Scottish National Party, Inverclyde)

I personally do not think that things have improved—well, they might have improved a wee bit, but my goodness, we still have a long, long way to go, and that is sad in this day and age. As for the match, it took place before I was married, I think—it was certainly some time ago.

As the chamber will know, I am involved with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. Indeed, I was our representative on the international executive committee, and colleagues in the previous parliamentary session had senior positions, too. Taking part and being involved in Commonwealth Parliamentary Association events is hugely beneficial because it is a shared learning experience. We need to continually learn and others can learn from us—it does not matter where they are in the Commonwealth. I encourage colleagues across the chamber to apply to the events and to try to get involved with some of them.

Once again, I thank Iris Duane for securing the motion for debate in the chamber.

Katy (Labour, West Scotland)

I call the Minister for Equalities and International Development to wind up the debate.

18:55

Simita Kumar (Scottish National Party, Edinburgh South Western)

I am delighted to close the debate celebrating the 25th anniversary of Scotland’s black history month, and I thank Iris Duane for securing the motion for debate. I thought that her speech was absolutely brilliant. I take the opportunity, as others have done, to congratulate Iris Duane and my colleague Michelle Campbell on their election as the first MSPs from a black African or Caribbean background. Their election is historically significant. I wish that we did not have to recognise those as firsts in 2026, but here we are.

Our Parliament is stronger when it reflects the diversity of the people it serves. Although there has been welcome progress, there is so much more to do to ensure that our institutions reflect the full range of experiences and perspectives in Scotland. For 25 years, the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights—CRER—has championed a uniquely Scottish black history month, creating opportunities to celebrate the contributions of African and Caribbean communities to Scotland’s history and society. I thank all those who have helped to make this year’s event possible across Scotland. We mark the 25anniversary and reflect on the many ways that generations of black communities have helped to shape our country and have contributed enormously to Scottish life.

As Karen Adam said, black people have always been part of us and our history. Our national life is enriched by black Scots and by the work of people such as costume designer Carole Millar; musicians such as Finley Quaye and Emeli Sandé, who has been mentioned a couple of times in the debate; and campaigner Eunice Olumide. We also have the writing of Aminatta Forna OBE and Jackie Kay, as well as the scientific achievements of the wonderful late Sir Geoff Palmer, which I thank Miles Briggs for highlighting. I have had many conversations with Sir Geoff Palmer. When I spoke to him about race, I came from a position of anger, but his position was of education and tolerance. He had a soft, wonderful manner that I will never forget.

Too often, the contributions of black people in Scotland are omitted from our understanding of history. It has been a privilege to hear the stories and experiences that have been highlighted by members across the chamber. I thank Graham Simpson for his contribution. He said that we all bleed in the same way and have the same heart, which I thought was a wonderful illustration. But—my goodness—how does that square with some of the horrible and harmful rhetoric that we have heard both in the debate and since I joined the Parliament? That rhetoric is divisive, disgraceful and hurtful. How are members able to say those things when their colleagues are singing from a completely different hymn sheet? I will be absolutely clear that the divisive rhetoric that we hear day in and day out, not just today but, unfortunately, almost every day and every week in the Parliament, will never be tolerated—not in our name, not by the Government and not by the people we represent. We are a Government for all of Scotland and we proudly celebrate our diversity and values.

We must do all that we can to firmly push back the tide of racism in every village, island, town and city in Scotland, including in our Parliament. That is why, earlier this month, the First Minister announced £30 million for our new Scotland together fund, which will strengthen community cohesion and fund the very best of our society: the community groups working hard to bring people together.

Scotland’s story has always been shaped by people and connections both within and beyond our borders, whether that involves the lived experience of the diaspora communities in Scotland or our international relationships and long-standing partnerships with countries such as Malawi, Zambia and Rwanda, which we heard about earlier today.

In Scotland, we have a moral imperative to speak openly and honestly about our past, in order to ensure that we recognise the structural inequalities that continue to exist and that must be dismantled both here, in Scotland, and internationally. The issues that my colleagues George Adam and Stuart McMillan highlighted in relation to football are true, and they unfortunately exist to this day.

Iris Duane rightly affirms that a person’s skin colour or ethnicity does not define their nationality, intelligence or ambition. That principle is central to our vision of Scotland as a nation in which everyone is treated with dignity and respect, in which diversity is valued and in which people can be proud of their cultural heritage and Scottish identity. I am, frankly, sick of sometimes having to justify my own convoluted identity, which is one that I am so proud of.

Stuart McMillan asked me to provide an update on progress on the recommendations arising from the empire, slavery and Scotland’s museums steering group. I know that the recommendations have been accepted, and I will write to him with a further update after the debate.

We can take pride in those Scots who campaigned for the abolition of the slave trade and who have campaigned on the ongoing legacy of the empire. Iris Duane talked about the history of resistance and resilience, and I thought that that was absolutely beautiful.

Black history month reminds us that there is no single black experience. Communities are diverse in their identities, cultures, faiths and experiences, but inequalities are shaped by multiple factors. Cara McKee mentioned the disparity that exists in pay and opportunities. That is precisely why the Scottish Government remains committed to tackling racism and advancing equality.

We all have a responsibility to recognise and challenge racism where it exists, including in our systems. Throughout black history month, we have the opportunity to deepen our understanding through the work of organisations that are driving progress across Scotland. That requires us to show leadership and to build up our communication efforts.

I will close with a quote from the late Sir Geoff Palmer. He said:

“Talent is everywhere, but opportunity is not.”

I know that one month is not enough to enable us to recognise the full contributions of our black communities in our country, but I hope that some of the passionate conversations that we have had today will help to drive lasting change, so that future generations can inherit a Scotland that is diverse in its people and truly equal in terms of opportunity and belonging.

Meeting closed at 19:03.