Scottish Parliament, 23 September 2004

351 contributions from 81 members. The official report.

Official Report 23 September 2004

Sporting Scotland

George Reid (None, Ochil)

Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-1733, in the name of Frank McAveety, under the title of "A Sporting Scotland is a Successful Scotland", and three amendments to the motion.

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

In opening, I would like to welcome Michael Matheson to his front-bench role with the Scottish National Party. I look forward to constructive dialogue with Michael on many of the key areas that we share in our portfolios. I hope that together—and with others in the chamber—we can continue the development in sporting activity that all Scotland has had in the five years since devolution.

This debate is appropriate, given the success that our major athletes have had in the past few months—both the athletes who were at the Olympics and the athletes who are at present doing incredibly well at the Athens paralympics. In many other sports, many people have represented their country either as individuals or as part of a team and made a substantial contribution. From those successes, we can get a sense not only of exhilaration but of the role that sport can play in building a nation's self-confidence and boosting the self-esteem and health of our people.

This morning, I want to talk about what the Executive has been trying to achieve over the past five years and about our ambitions for the future. We regard sport as central to much of the improvement agenda that the First Minister spoke about in his opening remarks in the new chamber only a couple of weeks ago.

How do we use sport to maximise the nation's opportunities? How can we celebrate success and increase participation and involvement? In our sport 21 strategy, a key challenge—outlined in "Shaping Scotland's Future"—is to ensure that we have the ambition to ensure not only medal success at the very top level, both for individuals and teams, but wider participation in sport. We want to celebrate our medal winners at the Olympics and at the paralympics, but we also want to increase the player base. Evidence from our major reviews of sport across Scotland has shown a diminution in the number of activities and the number of participants. The youth football review showed that there was significant participation up to the age of 18 but a substantial drop-off after the age of 18. In rugby, we have an opportunity to address ways of increasing participation. In general, increasing our playing base will be important.

One of the most substantial contributions to the debate was made just before the summer recess by Peter Peacock, the Minister for Education and Young People, when he announced his response to the recommendations of the physical education review group. That group made a number of key recommendations, building on many of Parliament's previous debates during its first four years. It was recognised that physical activity should be more central to the curriculum at primary and secondary level. Peter Peacock has gone further than the recommendations of the review group; I will explain the detail later.

We also have investment in the active schools programme—a substantial commitment, over three years, of £24 million. We want to pull together a whole range of activities. Whether people are playing sport for fun and enjoyment, or whether they are playing sport for competitive engagement or professional and elite development, they will have opportunities through the active schools programme.

Another ambition announced over the recess was to do with the development of the national and regional sport facilities strategy. I know that parts of Scotland were not included in that announcement, because of the ways in which partnerships have developed. However, I assure members that some of the money for the Euro 2008 bid—unsuccessful though it eventually was—has been put aside to ensure that we have capital that will, we hope, lever in more substantial resources. If all the partnership bids progress as we hope they can, we will have more than £250 million of major new facility development at national and regional level. I continue to be in discussion with people in all parts of Scotland to address their concerns.

Brian Monteith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

In light of the minister's comments on facilities, will he confirm that he has been asked to consider what facilities might be available in the Dunfermline area, and will he confirm that he has not ruled any of the proposals out?

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

I assure the member that, alongside the sports facilities strategy, we would like further development opportunities for a number of other areas of Scotland. Obviously, Fife is one of those areas. Key officials in sportscotland will be exploring options not only in the Dunfermline area but in other parts of Scotland. They will want to enhance the quality of sports facilities. I have met representatives of Dunfermline Athletic Football Club, and the supporters association, to consider ways of developing sports there.

We are engaging in a range of things that can make a genuine difference. We have to ask how we can deliver on the challenging ambitions of sport 21. The implementation forum pulls together a number of key individuals and organisations in sports in Scotland—including the governing bodies and representatives from local authorities and voluntary organisations. A key challenge will be to develop partnerships so that we can make a real difference.

One of the most positive developments that I have seen recently is to do with the club development strategy. A key question from the consultation on sport 21, and from many of my deliberations as minister, concerns how we can link community clubs and get them involved in the wider development of what happens in school and after school. We have to find ways of using local facilities. We have to ask how we can develop participation in clubs and how we can get that participation to continue beyond the teenage years and into adult and family lifestyles. We want everyone to participate in sport.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

The minister has spoken about the link between sport for children in schools and sport in sports clubs. Will he confirm that the role of establishing that link—which was previously given to sports co-ordinators—has fallen by the wayside? Sports co-ordinators are concentrating more on interschool competitions, rather than investigating routes into post-school participation.

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

I assure Margo MacDonald that co-ordinators can do all those things; they can work on integration and participation and they can work alongside schools to increase their range of programmes and increase their facilities. Sports co-ordinators can provide an effective link in all local authorities, encouraging departments to think imaginatively about their needs. The co-ordinators can also work effectively in club development.

I visited Kilwinning Community Sports Club this week. The club is only a couple of years old. It grew out of a basic ambition, when a number of competitive sports teams, operating out of rundown and poor-quality facilities, realised that they wanted to develop. They became a co-ordinated club and worked out what estate they needed. The club then applied to a series of funding bodies. This week, we were given a tremendous presentation by the sports club, which had identified the need for money from Communities Scotland, from the health budget, from the local authority and from sportscotland. By pulling that together, the club has a greater ambition, and we have a sports club that started as a football club but is now providing a clubgolf programme for most of the schools in the Kilwinning area. It is providing qualifications for its coaches in various sports, and it is considering rugby coaching and other aspects of fitness, such as weightlifting.

A major commitment is involved, but behind that there is an opportunity to provide employment in an area of disadvantage. The club is only two or three years old, but it has an ambition to raise its game and to do something genuinely different in the wider community. That is complemented by the rates relief that clubs that are registered as community amateur sports clubs can receive as a result of a voluntary agreement with local authorities and the Inland Revenue. There is a good model there, which started halfway through the previous parliamentary session and has now delivered something. However, the club has great ambitions to enhance its role even further.

The importance of developing potential is central to the Executive's ambitions for sports development in Scotland. That sporting potential can be developed only if we encourage and work effectively with the volunteers, and perhaps enhance what they do. That is why sportscotland intends to appoint six regional volunteer development officers this year, who will sit within the local volunteer networks to try to support the existing volunteer structure for clubs and increase the capacity of those clubs to develop. We have a major ambition to raise the numbers of individuals involved in volunteering.

We hope that all that will lead to excellence, both at a local level, where people participate better than they have participated before, and at the elite level, where we will ensure that there are substantial developments for our best athletes. Last year, I announced lottery investment of £16 million over four years, to continue the work of the Scottish Institute of Sport, which was started in 1998, under my predecessor, Sam Galbraith. That is a commitment to working with athletes to ensure that they can compete at the top level. The institute has had some successes; most recently, 35 of its athletes were selected to represent Britain at the Olympics and the paralympics. Along with the five other Scots in team GB, they have enjoyed some medal successes. Only a few weeks ago, those successful athletes were celebrated in the capital city, and were recognised at a reception at Bute House. It was interesting to note that they were fairly modest about their achievements. The influence they had on many of the youngsters who watched them or spoke to them that day will inspire those youngsters for the future.

We have had some successes and we want that to continue. There have been some tremendous successes in the paralympics. Hopefully, over the weekend, I will have a chance to meet some of our successful athletes. Great Britain got off to a great start with the young cyclist Aileen McGlynn from Glasgow, and her pilot Ellen Hunter, who won gold in the women's B1-3 tandem time trial. In doing so, the pair smashed the world record on their paralympic games debut. We also had success when Isabel Newstead retained her air pistol title to win her ninth paralympic gold medal in her seventh paralympic games. Isabel is a unique athlete, who deserves recognition because she has paralympic gold medals in three different sports: athletics, swimming and shooting. That is commendable. [Applause.] Even in the past 24 hours, Jim Anderson from Broxburn has won two golds and established a new world record in the 200m freestyle swimming, and another young athlete, Andrew Lindsay from Cowdenbeath, has won the 100m backstroke. I hope that the tremendous achievements of those athletes, overcoming obvious difficulties but celebrating on the world stage, will be recognised when they come back home to Scotland.

We have also celebrated the success of Andrew Murray, who will compete at the top level of tennis across the globe. We hope that Andrew will continue the progress he made when he became the first British tennis player to win the US Open junior title. Last weekend, those of us who stayed up late enough experienced the exhilaration of Colin Montgomerie's participation in the Ryder cup team, as he led that team to success. We should celebrate that success.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

I wonder whether Colin Montgomerie's achievement could be recognised by inviting him to join us in the opening of the Parliament. The minister might have some influence on that.

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

I would be delighted to offer that, but I imagine that it is not within my remit. The Presiding Officer is looking at me. The First Minister has had a discussion about the possible recognition of Colin Montgomerie's role generally, but an invitation to the opening of the new Parliament building is a matter for the Presiding Officer. I would encourage him to consider Margo MacDonald's suggestion.

Over the past five years, the Executive has made substantial contributions to the development of the talented athletes programme. Awards totalling nearly £13 million have been made from the programme. At junior level, awards of more than £5.5 million have been made. We have substantial commitments to try to ensure that our athletes develop to their fullest potential. The First Minister recognised that when he launched a £2.5 million Commonwealth games fund in November 2002, to help the Commonwealth Games Council for Scotland to meet the costs of team training, preparation and participation in future Commonwealth games and Commonwealth youth games. I would like to take this opportunity to wish the very best to our young athletes who will be competing in the youth games in Bendigo in Australia at the end of the year.

I have mentioned a number of key agendas. As well as those, the Executive has massive ambitions to continue to achieve for Scotland in major sporting events. There are continuing debates about which events Scotland should compete for. We have already had the success of the recent rugby under-21 world cup finals. Hopefully, we can build on that in submissions for future rugby world events. We also have commitments to the mountain bike world cup finals, the Heineken cup final next year and the Sudirman cup in 2007. There is a whole series of events in which Scotland will have an opportunity to take part and to showcase the best that we have to offer. When the Ryder cup takes place in Scotland in 2014, we have an opportunity to maximise what we get from our participation.

There has been substantial progress on the sports agenda in Scotland. We recognise that we must increase the participation base in activities. From that, hopefully, we will develop nuggets of talent, and from that, have a pathway not only through the sporting bodies but through the area institutes of sport and the Scottish Institute of Sport. I hope that we can celebrate the result of that in the future. We have an opportunity to continue the progress that has been made, which would not have been made without devolution. Although we have achieved a great deal in sport, we have much more to do.

I move,

That the Parliament recognises the significant progress made since devolution in increasing participation in sport through the investment in active schools and the Scottish Executive's commitment to ensure that every child has at least two hours of high quality physical education; celebrates the continuing success of Scotland's sportsmen and women, particularly the medallists at the recent Olympics and those competing for medals at the Paralympics currently under way in Athens, of Andrew Murray at the US Open and most recently of Colin Montgomerie as part of the successful European team in the Ryder Cup; endorses the Executive's ambitions to attract major sporting events in Scotland, building on the successful rugby U21 World Cup; recognises the Executive's ambitions to invest in sports facilities for all talents and abilities, and seeks the support of all partners in meeting the challenges set out in Sport 21, the national strategy for sport in Scotland.

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

I thank the minister for his kind remarks. He can be assured of my support on issues that the Executive are getting correct but, as I am sure he would expect, where I consider that the Executive is failing to come up to the mark, he will be challenged by Scottish National Party members.

Over the summer, we have witnessed two major sporting events in Europe: the European football championships in Portugal and the Olympic games in Athens. Although our Scottish national team failed in its quest to join the rest of the footballing elite at the European football championships, our sportsmen and sportswomen have been successful in the Olympic games. The minister referred to some of them. They include Chris Hoy and Shirley Robertson, who brought back gold medals, and Katherine Grainger and Campbell Walsh, who brought back silver medals. In the past 24 hours, two Scots participating in the paralympics, Jim Anderson and Andrew Lindsay, have taken gold. In fact, that is Jim Anderson's second gold in the paralympics. Those are Scottish Olympians of whom we can be truly proud.

However, when we consider the media coverage of sport in Scotland, we could be forgiven for thinking that successes in sport in Scotland are few and far between. The reality is that we are relatively successful in some fields. In the past year and a half, Scottish sportsmen and sportswomen have secured about 189 different titles in international competitions in orienteering, cycling, golf, boxing and a range of other sports. It came as something of a surprise to me, however, to find out that we have taken 24 medals in the tug-of-war world championships. However, many of the titles that Scottish sportsmen and sportswomen hold are in sports that are considered specialist and elite or that some would describe as minority sports and which often receive little direct financial support or publicity.

Rhona Brankin (Labour, Midlothian)

Michael Matheson obviously realises the importance of the Olympic games and the Olympic movement, as well as the wonderful achievement of Scottish athletes. Does that mean that his party will get behind the bid to bring the Olympic games to London?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

I wish the London Olympics bid every success, but as I am sure Rhona Brankin is aware, there is genuine concern about the bid's potential impact on sports funding in Scotland. I want to ensure that that issue is addressed, but I look forward to the possibility of the Olympics taking place in London and to a Scottish team being represented there.

We have sportspersons who compete successfully at an international level and, as the minister highlighted, it is important that we build on that success to ensure that we continue to have success in the international field. That is exactly what the Government in London has chosen to do on the back of the success at the Athens Olympics. Only last week, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in Whitehall launched what it describes as

"a new multi-million pound Government initiative ... to nurture a new generation of sporting talent."

The initiative is called the talented athlete scholarship scheme—TASS—and it exists to support young athletes who are going through higher and further education to allow them to continue with their education while pursuing their sporting careers. To help the programme on its way, the Exchequer has decided to invest some £6 million in the programme over two years.

As one sports coach asked me the other day, what is happening up here? Why is our Government in Scotland not demonstrating the same level of ambition as its colleagues in London? What exactly does the Executive intend to do to build on the success that we have already achieved? Can we expect the Exchequer to be as generous north of the border as it has chosen to be south of the border, to help our talented athletes to build on the success that we have created?

Any sport strategy must also be about supporting sport at community level. That is to do with health, well-being and promoting sport that is fun. In its motion, the Executive has chosen to highlight activities in schools—the active schools programme—and give itself a pat on the back for what it has achieved so far. That progress should be welcomed, but as even the minister has accepted, there is still a long way to go. The minister will also be aware that the active schools programme is only one strand of the proposals that the physical activities task force made a couple of years ago. The other three strands were active homes, active workplaces and active communities, and I believe that the primary reason why the Executive has chosen to focus on active schools is that little, if any, progress has been made on the other three strands that were recommended in the task force's report.

If the minister and the Scottish Government are to be taken seriously on tackling physical inactivity in Scotland, they must raise their game and ensure that they address the issue comprehensively, because we live in inactive times, in which people would rather drive than walk and rather spectate than participate in sport. Even some of my MSP colleagues would rather get a taxi from Waverley station to the new Parliament than take the 10-minute walk, which would do them the world of good.

Christine May (Labour, Central Fife)

Does Mr Matheson accept that, in stiletto heels, the walk takes slightly longer than 10 minutes?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

I will have to take Christine May's word for it.

I ask members to consider the consequences of inactivity in Scotland: one male in four and one female in five are clinically obese, and on average, 42 people a week die from heart disease, which is a direct result of inactivity. Forty-two people will die this week, next week and the week after until we do something to stop the trend.

Sport in itself will not address all the health problems of our society. It must be part of a balanced programme, in which sport is a key component but which also addresses issues such as diet, nutrition, poverty and education. When we get that balance right, we will start to make a real difference in the lives of people in Scotland.

Over the past few months, the Executive has announced its intention to invest in sports facilities and the sports infrastructure in Scotland, and the minister stated that intention again today. That investment should, on the face of it, be welcomed, but as with any other Executive announcement about investment, it must be put in context.

Over the past couple of years, the Scottish Executive has commissioned sportscotland to carry out an audit of a range of sports facilities in Scotland. The first audit was on swimming pools, and sportscotland published a report called "The Ticking Time Bomb: The Maintenance, Upgrading and Refurbishment of Scotland's Public Pools" some time ago. That report highlighted the need for some £200 million to be invested in swimming pools alone in Scotland to bring them up to the necessary standard. The second report, which is on indoor sports facilities in Scotland, has already been completed and passed to ministers, but for some reason, the Executive has chosen not to publish it to date. I suspect that that is because the report shows that a considerable amount of investment is needed in our indoor sports facilities. It has been suggested to me that, to bring our indoor sports facilities up to the required standard, billions of pounds will require to be invested. Given that our Executive is committed to providing sports facilities for all—for those of a variety of talents and abilities—perhaps the minister will explain to us what it intends to do to address the concerns that have been highlighted in the sportscotland audits.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, North Tayside)

Does Mr Matheson recall a visit that he and I paid to sports facilities in the Falkirk area? Because they had been constructed using the private finance initiative, the facilities were virtually unaffordable for members of the public, voluntary organisations or clubs to use. Does he have any thoughts on how the Executive might address that problem and achieve its strategy by making such facilities accessible to ordinary people in Scotland?

Michael Matheson (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

It is interesting that the minister highlighted the need to ensure that local sports organisations are able to access local sports facilities. The experience in Falkirk is that local sports organisations cannot afford to use the good sports facilities that have been provided in the PFI schools because of the cost. Swimming pools are lying empty because the local people cannot afford to use the facility, and that is the type of problem that the Executive must address if it is serious about ensuring that people can access such sports facilities. Falkirk Council has taken the matter a step further and has chosen not to use PFI for its new schools but to go down the route of community ownership, because schools are a key part of communities. That will allow the local community not only to use but to run the local sports facility for the community's benefit.

Given that the Executive is keen on democratic accountability and that we had a lecture on freedom of information yesterday evening from Tavish Scott in the debate on the Fraser inquiry, perhaps the Executive will tell us whether it intends to publish the audit report on indoor sports facilities that sportscotland has completed so that we can see exactly what level of investment in the infrastructure is required.

Last week, I raised with the minister the issue of an important sports facility that we have in Scotland: the facility for indoor rock-climbing at Ratho quarry, which is probably the best in Europe, if not the world. Sadly, that world-class sports facility is in serious financial jeopardy and could be lost if the Executive does not act to ensure that it is protected. I hope that the minister will take on board the need to address that.

The Executive tells us in its motion that it is ambitious about bringing major sporting events to Scotland. I hope that it can live up to that ambition. Rather than telling us that it is ambitious, how about starting to show it by joining us in supporting a solo Scottish bid to hold the 2012 European football championship? On average, sport brings £1.25 billion into the Scottish economy every year. Securing such a major championship would have tremendous spin-offs for the Scottish economy overall. If the Executive is really committed to being ambitious for sport in Scotland, it must start to raise its game.

I move amendment S2M-1733.1, to leave out from "the significant" to end and insert:

"the important contribution of sport in schools, homes, workplaces and communities across Scotland; celebrates the continuing success of Scotland's sportsmen and women, particularly the medallists at the recent Olympics and those competing for medals at the Paralympics currently under way in Athens, of Andrew Murray at the US Open and most recently of Colin Montgomerie as part of the successful European team in the Ryder Cup, and acknowledges the economic importance of sport to the Scottish economy and calls on the Scottish Executive to demonstrate its ambition to hold major sporting events here in Scotland by supporting the call for a solo Scottish bid for the European Football Championships in 2012."

Jamie McGrigor (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I have difficulty with the first point in the Executive's motion because we have seen no evidence that children are having

"at least two hours of high quality physical education".

The target is laudable and is included in sportscotland's sport 21 aims, but where is the evidence that the sport 21 targets are being met? The Executive has until now agreed only that that is one way forward.

Earlier this year, Peter Peacock announced at Lasswade High School Centre that the number of teachers would be increased to 53,000 and that 400 extra PE teachers would be in place by 2007. That may be an Executive commitment to Scottish pupils, but when will it be implemented? We should have a date. When will we have a minimum of two hours of high-quality physical education in our schools? The sport 21 targets were set years ago. Why did the Executive not do anything then? Despite its commitment to activity, the Executive has hardly been active—mind you, it banned hunting with dogs, which provided active sport for many people in southern Scotland and the Borders.

I am delighted that our Scottish athletes won medals at the Olympics, but it must be noted that they all trained south of the border and that the sports in which they succeeded are not the core sports that sportscotland promotes, except perhaps cycling. I understand that gold medallist Chris Hoy has said that he would train in Scotland if the new velodrome ever came into being, but as long as it remains one of the Executive's so-called commitments, he will have to train elsewhere.

The national governing bodies of sport are screaming out for more help and encouragement. They involve the people who provide the wherewithal for most would-be athletes who want to take up sport. The national governing bodies must be properly funded to supply a steady stream of good Scottish sport talent from the grass roots right through the system, to provide candidates for the Scottish Institute of Sport to back.

The Executive's aim should be to produce a new generation of Scots who are fit and healthy and who consider sporting activity to be the norm. We want more people to play football rather than to think that they are participating by sitting on the sofa and watching it on television. We want to encourage people to walk and climb the hills of Scotland, to canoe and row the lochs of Scotland and to sail the seas around Scotland. This country has the most beautiful outdoors in the world. It is blighted only by the midge, but even running away from midges is an active sport.

Karen Gillon (Labour, Clydesdale)

If the member is so keen for people to walk and to participate in activity outdoors, why did he vociferously oppose access under the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003?

Jamie McGrigor (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

That question is extraordinary. Scotland has never had a law of trespass of any kind. People walk all over the hills in Scotland and are never prevented from doing so.

One matter that puzzles me is that since the report of the physical activity task force under John Beattie was produced, the Executive has committed to an active schools programme, but no funding for that comes from the education budget—it all comes from the health budget, which is somewhat stretched, as every member knows. Surely the education budget should be used to promote more sport in schools. After all, PE stands for physical education.

The Executive has also committed to active workplace programmes, active community programmes and active home programmes. I hope that that does not mean that it will poke its nose into people's private lives any more than it has done already. However, no action has been taken on any of those three commitments; they are all empty words and hollow rhetoric and the Executive has failed to translate its rhetoric into action. Instead, it has preferred to pour money into unnecessary and overlapping layers of bureaucracy, endless consultation papers and quangos.

A sporting Scotland would certainly be a more successful Scotland for three main reasons. It would produce improved health, make for stronger and more effective communities and inspire pride and economic growth. Unfortunately, Scotland's participation in physical activity is poor. Treatment of obesity and illnesses that are caused by physical inactivity is estimated to cost the health service £171 million a year. The Executive plans a ban on smoking, but before it does that it should surely consider the effects of junk food which, combined with a lack of exercise, is in many cases more harmful than tobacco.

The value of sport and competitive games in promoting responsibility, enterprise and engagement among young people cannot be overestimated. I was impressed by an article in a Scotland on Sunday magazine about what a teacher called John Herbert has achieved at Haghill Primary School in one of the more challenging areas of Glasgow. He has started a mountain biking club called the Haghill Dirt Dawgs. There is no doubt that he has inspired many pupils to feel proud about appearing in bike races all over Scotland. Mr Herbert realised that selling mountain biking as a healthy option would probably not work with the pupils of Haghill or any other school, but they found out that it was fun, which is why they do it. Mr Herbert had an idea that has grown from a little acorn into a mighty oak. At first, he took four or five pupils who enjoyed mountain biking and who persuaded their mates to go, too. Now, 35 pupils bike regularly. They have private sponsorship for equipment and—I am glad to say—that the local council is now helping with a trailer for the bikes.

The moral of that story is that we will create a sporting and successful Scotland not by setting targets, distributing glossy bits of paper or having consultation meetings. It will be brought about by people such as Mr Herbert in Haghill. Money should be spent directly at the grass roots and private inspiration should be encouraged and rewarded. If Mr Herbert can do it, surely the new active schools co-ordinators should be able to do it. If they do not produce results, the Executive should consider whether they are value for money.

What about our national game of shinty? It is a popular Scottish game, especially in the Highlands, which virtually relies on private sponsorship.

Events such as the Ryder cup and the six nations rugby tournament act as catalysts for economic growth. Sporting events attract enormous numbers of visitors every year for the tourism industry, so if we are to be a successful Scotland, we must capitalise on our Olympic athletes' success and host more sporting events.

The mountain bike world cup, which was staged in Fort William, attracted 8,000 spectators. A world-cup village was erected on the Nevis car park, which included a range of expo stands that offered for sale all the equipment that was being used. One local businessman said that his income for that weekend was £3,500, whereas his normal income is £300. That event was a huge success, in stark contrast to the Scottish Executive's golf strategy, which promised everything but delivered nothing.

To finish—

Murray Tosh (Conservative, West of Scotland)

Quickly.

Jamie McGrigor (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

I reiterate that we need physical activity and action from the Executive and not just mental commitments.

I move amendment S2M-1733.3, to leave out from first "recognises" to end and insert:

"laments the lack of significant progress made since devolution in increasing participation in sport; congratulates Scotland's sportsmen and women, particularly the medallists at the recent Olympics and those competing for medals at the Paralympics currently under way in Athens, Andrew Murray at the US Open and most recently Colin Montgomerie as part of the successful European team in the Ryder Cup; endorses the Scottish Executive's ambitions to attract major sporting events in Scotland, building on the successful rugby U21 World Cup; believes that the Executive's fixation with arbitrary targets and control of sport is counter-productive, and believes that, rather than over-spending on consultations, initiatives and glossy brochures, funding should be channelled directly to schools and national governing bodies to be spent on facilities and training."

Dennis Canavan (Independent, Falkirk West)

I join the minister in congratulating the sportsmen and sportswomen who brought honour to themselves and to their country in the recent Olympics and paralympics. I also congratulate Andrew Murray and Colin Montgomerie on their brilliant victories. Congratulations are also due to the minister's local football team on its narrow victory over my local team in the CIS cup on Tuesday. Falkirk FC were—of course—fielding their reserve team, because they were saving themselves for a more important league match against Clyde on Saturday.

Some members may argue with that, but it is difficult to argue with anything in the Executive's motion. Some of the sportsmen and sportswomen whom the motion mentions have been assisted by the Scottish Institute of Sport. I pay tribute to the institute's good work under the leadership of Alistair Gray and Anne Marie Harrison. The institute specialises in trying to improve our elite athletes' performance, but I hope that our top performers' success will inspire other people—especially young people—to participate in sport at whatever level. Some of them may become the stars of tomorrow, but I am sure that all of them will gain a great deal of enjoyment from sport, whether on the athletics track, the football pitch, the golf course or the tennis court.

The Executive motion specifically refers to school sport and the Executive's

"commitment to ensure that every child has at least two hours of high quality physical education".

However, I do not think that the quality of physical education will be enhanced by abolition of the post of principal teacher of physical education and replacement of that post with a faculty head or general factotum who may have no experience or qualifications in physical education. That aspect of the McCrone agreement could have a detrimental effect on physical education and, indeed, on other secondary school subjects. Therefore, I urge the Executive to ensure that Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education monitors the situation closely.

When the McCrone agreement was first announced, I suggested that some of the additional resources should be used to give incentives to encourage teachers of any subject to devote some of their time to organisation of school sport. Before the teachers' pay dispute in the 1980s, many teachers used to do that on an unpaid voluntary basis after school hours or on Saturday mornings, but we cannot turn back the clock. An incentive—whether financial reward or time off in lieu—would encourage more teachers to get involved in organising school sport.

As Margo MacDonald suggested, more effort should be put into building stronger links between schools and community sports clubs. I would also like to see more resources for sports facilities in the community through increased local authority funding and lottery funding from sportscotland. Recently, I wrote to the minister about the sportsmatch funding scheme, which is designed to attract commercial funding to grass-roots sport. Many good applications are being rejected and, as a result, commercial sponsors and sports volunteers may be discouraged. Therefore, I urge the minister to investigate the matter with a view to increasing the public funding that is available to the sportsmatch scheme.

I have also had recent correspondence with the minister about the scheme of rates relief of at least 80 per cent for community amateur sports clubs. I welcome the voluntary agreement with local authorities and look forward to the introduction of legislation. However, I urge the minister to extend that relief to water charges, which can also be a considerable burden on amateur sports clubs.

The Scottish Executive and sportscotland should also be more proactive in encouraging clubs to register as community amateur sports clubs with the Inland Revenue so that they qualify for rates relief. At the last count, there were fewer than 100 registered community amateur sports clubs in the whole of Scotland. Therefore, more effort should be put into informing clubs about how to register and about the additional resources that might be available to them if they were to do so.

It is all very well for the Scottish Executive to bask in the glory of the sporting success of some of our sports stars, but the Executive must match its fine words with action to ensure that there are adequate resources for sport. Funding of sport is an investment for success and an investment in people, the Scottish economy and the nation's health and well-being. It is also an investment in Scotland's self-confidence and prestige on the international stage. Therefore, I urge the Parliament to accept my amendment.

I have great pleasure in moving amendment S2M-1733.2, to insert at end:

"but recognises that none of the above will be achieved without more resources invested at local level under the auspices of sportscotland and local authorities."

Donald Gorrie (Liberal Democrat, Central Scotland)

I welcome this debate. There is still not nearly enough attention paid to sport in the Government system in Scotland and the United Kingdom. Sport should be a more vital part of many people's lives than it currently is.

The minister made an excellent speech and he has made a good personal contribution in this area of work to which he is personally committed. However, there must be enough resources behind sport. For that reason, I urge him to accept Dennis Canavan's amendment to the motion, which calls for more resources.

The minister can argue fairly that sport should get a much bigger part of the health budget and of the community development budget. As well as being good in itself and enjoyable—which is why people should be involved in it—sport has side-effects in that it creates health and reduces obesity. It also has a much underestimated effect on the morale of communities. Local boys or girls football teams and other clubs for the wide range of sports that are available can do a lot for communities. They can raise the morale of communities, reduce problems and so on. Therefore, sport can make a legitimate call on health and community development budgets. Without increasing the overall Government budget, much more could be achieved by getting more money for sport. I urge the minister to consider that.

Jamie McGrigor (Conservative, Highlands and Islands)

Earlier, I pointed out that funding for the active schools programme comes entirely from the health budget. Should not it come from the education budget? The member says that the health budget should be used, but surely the education budget should be used.

Donald Gorrie (Liberal Democrat, Central Scotland)

I was not arguing exclusively. Obviously, education should contribute greatly to sport, as it currently does. Things should happen and we should pay to help things to happen, but which budget is used is a matter of total indifference. I was merely suggesting to the minister arguments that he could advance to colleagues who have bigger budgets than he has. He could argue that he should have a share of those budgets.

We should start at the bottom. Other members can talk about very successful sportspeople and high-profile events, which are fine, but I am more interested in more people getting more pleasure and benefit out of sport than is currently the case. Work has been done in schools through widening the curriculum and through some Government initiatives, but sport still does not, in the eyes of most school authorities, have the status that it should have. It is seen as an add-on and as a nice thing for people to do, but it should be absolutely central, along with the arts and other neglected areas of the curriculum. We must enhance the status of sport and PE in the eyes of teachers and important people.

As others have said, we must improve the relationship between schools and clubs. Again, some work has been done on that, but much more could be done. Other members have said that much more could be done after school and at weekends by using PE teachers and other teachers—Dennis Canavan mentioned that—and local club coaches. I am sure that we could develop a system in which there is much more activity and much more use of facilities and in which people's talents are used. Some of those people might want to be paid a bit—we could consider that—but many more would simply like to be recognised more for the contribution that they make. Teachers used to be promoted because they did out-of-school activities, but nowadays, teachers seem to be promoted for other reasons and out-of-school activities do not seem to count so much. We should recognise the great contribution that all such people make.

We should core fund our sports clubs better than we currently do. I am not talking about huge sums; a few hundred pounds, or one or two thousand pounds at most would make a huge difference to two of the athletic clubs with which I am involved. Instead of spending hours of their time trying to raise money, they could spend hours of their time coaching the kids, which is what they are keen on.

We should also pay to help people to take up coaching and to obtain qualifications in coaching. Once people are qualified, most of them would not want to be paid, but it costs quite a lot to get the various qualifications. The very least that we could do is pay to help them to obtain such qualifications and to assist them through the bureaucracy to obtain them. There is a vehicle in the new United Kingdom national coaching certificate, which we could use as a way of developing coaching. There are also people in the Sector Skills Council for Active Leisure and Learning—SkillsActive—in Scotland, for example, with whom the minister is involved and who work to get people who are involved in sport to obtain qualifications. We could produce much more in the way of coaches and other voluntary helpers, who are at the heart of sporting activity.

We should also examine charges. Many councils charge far too much and therefore discourage clubs and individuals from using facilities. We have to strengthen the connection between the paid staff who work for sportscotland and other sports bodies and volunteers. Many trained staff are not very good at working with volunteers.

Clubs fail in many ways, because they do not know their way around things. They could make more use of the voluntary action fund and of volunteer centres, for example. We could give much more help to clubs to do what they do best, which is coaching young people. They could be helped in recruiting more members and in getting more funding from local organisations. That is at the heart of the matter.

I was going to speak about football, but it is such a disaster area on the whole that I will not, except to say that we should increase the support that we give to supporters. Democracy has great failings, as we all demonstrate, but a bit of democracy in Scottish football would do a great deal of good; Scottish football could not possibly do worse than it is doing at the moment.

Murray Tosh (Conservative, West of Scotland)

We come now to the open part of the debate. Time is very tight, so I ask that speeches be kept to a tight six minutes.

Sylvia Jackson (Labour, Stirling)

One huge advantage of having a daughter whose boyfriend is Greek is that it was possible to arrange tickets and accommodation for the Olympic games in Athens more easily. The spectacle of the 4x100m relay final and the performance of Kelly Holmes is still in my mind. There was also the fantastic achievement of the other athletes, and of the Scottish athletes in particular.

We have all spoken about our local heroes today. In my case, it would have to be Todd Cooper, the swimmer from Stirling. There is also Campbell Walsh, who lives in Bridge of Allan, where I live. The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport mentioned the paralympics and the current successes. Other recent Scottish successes include those of Colin Montgomerie and Andrew Murray, the United States junior open tennis champion, who did a lot of his work in Dunblane and Bridge of Allan. I hope that we will be able to build on his achievement. The tennis centre at the University of Stirling will have an important part to play in future training opportunities for tennis, and we hope that progress will continue to be made there.

The achievements that I have mentioned represent sport at the highest level. Centres of excellence such as the University of Stirling play their part but, as most members have said, that level of excellence is not all that matters; sport is much more than that. Sport has an important part to play in promoting a healthy nation—Michael Matheson mentioned the risk to health of being inactive. Stirling Council's present policy, which is called active Stirling, helps in that promotion. It is claimed that inactive people run twice the risk of coronary heart disease, have higher blood pressure, are at greater risk of becoming overweight or obese and have more injuries and accidents.

We must build on the facts that many youngsters are interested in sport and that their heroes are in sport. Donald Gorrie mentioned football, and many young people look on footballers—as well as rugby players, boxers and others—as their heroes. We must build on that and bring more of our sportsmen and sportswomen into the limelight to encourage all of us to be more active and healthy. As we become more active, we should recognise the fact that we can develop better physiques, which is a good thing not just for teenagers but for all of us, whatever age we are.

Let us consider what is happening in the Stirling Council area. The council has three strands to its policy, the first of which is sports development, which encompasses progression and the idea of a ladder, whereby young people can start sport at school, as Andrew Murray did, and can then build up their ability and become an elite athlete. The second strand is active community development, which links clubs with the various facilities and organisations. The third strand is the facilities themselves.

All those strands require effective co-operation. That means co-operation between council committees and between regional and national centres and co-operation with sports councils, including local sports councils, the Scottish Institute of Sport and sportscotland. We do not just need a mechanism to enable progression to take place for those who want to become elite athletes; we need to allow access for all. Disability has to be at the centre of any council's policy.

I take issue slightly with what Michael Matheson said about the public-private partnership in Falkirk. In Stirling, we do not have similar problems at Balfron Primary School. We are hopeful that our new proposals for PPP development for other secondary schools in the area will have similar sports facilities to those that Balfron has. There, access is not a problem and state-of-the-art facilities are being provided. That is needed as part of any local council programme.

Central strategies are also important, as a number of members have said. We have sport 21 and the active schools programme, and more links are being established. However, we should also listen to some of the points that have been made by Conservative members about getting specialist coaches into schools and about promoting the development of clubs and perhaps linking that more closely with school sport development. The other day, Mary Scanlon spoke about the need to develop rugby; under Stirling Council's policy, many primary schools in the area are starting rugby taster sessions.

I stress the importance of facilities. In my constituency, we are examining the upgrading of swimming facilities, sports halls and outdoor pitches. We welcome the allocation by the Scottish Executive of £2.5 million of strategy fund money for national and regional sports facilities.

Possibly the most important thing is the importance of sport to individuals for their self-esteem, confidence and health—the very points that the minister made.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, North East Scotland)

I begin by congratulating Michael Matheson, our new front-bench spokesperson on sport and culture, on his classic opening speech. It is not just that Michael has been elevated to the SNP shadow Cabinet; sport and culture is now a Cabinet portfolio in its own right, which illustrates the importance that the SNP attaches to these issues.

It is a pleasure to follow Sylvia Jackson's speech. I attended the University of Stirling. Back in those days, I played squash and five-a-side football several times a week at the sports facilities there.

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

You never did.

Richard Lochhead (Scottish National Party, North East Scotland)

Linda Fabiani says otherwise but, in those days, I had a slightly better physique than I have today, I must admit. Playing sport at Stirling was somewhat offset by the alcohol that I consumed at the Gannochy, which is, of course, the pub at the sports complex. That perfect combination at the university was absolute heaven.

The debate covers many issues, including health and fitness. A few months ago, when I was travelling back up to Aberdeen by train, I found myself sitting next to two public health professors from the universities in Aberdeen. We got on to the subject of obesity. They were frustrated by the fact that the whole political debate in Scotland at the time was about diet. That is still true to a certain degree today—rightly so—but they felt that the most important factor affecting people's health was a lack of physical exercise, and not simply diet. Lifestyle is responsible for Scotland's appalling health record, as well as what people eat. That is reflected in many ways. For example, when I took my family to the Centreparcs complex in Cumbria a few months ago, I was amazed to find a walk-in dryer in the swimming pool changing rooms. It is a rather pathetic illustration of the convenience society in which we now live that people do not even have to burn off a few calories drying themselves with a towel. We live in a remote-control society, which means that we do not have to get out of our seats to change television channels. Moreover, we have a different working environment in which people carry out less manual work and are not as physically active.

I want to highlight some broader aspects where we might be able to change people's lifestyles, give them more access to sporting facilities and so on. On planning, when new housing estates are built nowadays, no attention is paid to giving people in those communities the ability to participate in sports or physical activity. For example, there is no obligation to provide sports facilities in new estates. We really must address that problem. I know of many housing estates in north-east Scotland that have neither postboxes nor leisure amenities for local people. Surely we must consider providing sports facilities in new estates so that people have access to the necessary infrastructure that will allow them to participate in physical activity. Moreover, with the advent of out-of-town shopping, people simply get in their cars to go to the shops. There is no incentive for them to do any physical activity because they do not have to walk anywhere.

The other aspect of planning that I want to touch on is access to land, by which I mean not just the debate on walking in the countryside that was mentioned earlier, but the ability to purchase land. I am aware of many rural communities that cannot access land in order to build a village hall that the community can use for sporting activities such as badminton. We need some joined-up thinking in Government circles to ensure that those communities are able to get their hands on land and build communal facilities for sporting and other activities.

Health service land, particularly in our cities, is being sold off for private housing developments that completely lack sports facilities. For example, the five-a-side pitches in Aberdeen are extremely popular and are always oversubscribed. However, for some reason, it is difficult to get such pitches built, even though people in Aberdeen and other cities are desperate to use them. At the same time, publicly owned organisations are selling off land for private housing or other developments that do not take the public interest into account. Ministers must address some of these questions. When public land is sold off, is it possible to give priority to developments such as sports facilities that have a continuing public interest?

Sylvia Jackson touched on some of the wider benefits of sporting activity for the Scottish population, such as health. I was interested to read in today's press that University of Glasgow researchers have discovered that people can recover from breast cancer operations a lot more quickly if they lead more active lives and participate in sport. Of course, we all know that Scotland has the worst health record in Europe and that we have to get people more active if we are to ensure that they become healthy.

Finally, on infrastructure, although the system of cycle routes has expanded in many communities, that expansion has been a little bit bitty in some council areas where the cash to build new routes is not available. Ministers should attend to that issue. Furthermore, we should at least agree to the principle of making a solo bid for the European championships in 2012. That will allow us to sketch out the infrastructure that we will need in a few years' time if we are to be successful. Such an infrastructure would have enormous wider benefits for communities throughout Scotland and I urge the minister to say that he supports the principle of a solo bid. After all, making sport a bigger priority and giving it a lot more resources will mean a win-win situation for Scotland, and I encourage the minister to take the same attitude.

Brian Monteith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I listened with interest to the minister's opening speech. Usually, these debates on sport follow the publication of a fairly vacuous glossy brochure by the Executive or feature an announcement of yet another initiative that delays action or provides money for the expansion of sports administrations. I am relieved to find that no brochure has been published and am interested to see that the minister's speech did not contain any announcements.

I recall that, when I was the Conservative sports spokesman, I had a conversation with Sam Galbraith in which he told me that sport was a bilateral, consensual issue on which parties tended to agree and to work together for the good of sport in Scotland. I must say that such a consensual blancmange meant that sports policy was not pushed hard enough and that when the Conservatives were in Government they were not pressed to deliver more. Although many significant advances were made in that time—the most important of which was the introduction of lottery funding—I accept that more could have been done, particularly to arrest the decline of sport in schools. Indeed, a number of speakers have already pointed out that very issue. Thankfully, the minister is doing his level best to end that bilateral consensual approach and we are finding that we are disagreeing more and more with some of the Executive's actions and policies.

Stewart Stevenson (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)

Will the member take an intervention?

Brian Monteith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

No, I will carry on at the moment.

The Conservatives have supported—and will continue to support—the minister's announcements of funding for facilities. However, he has been silent on many questions. In that respect, I want to touch on two sports: tennis and football. I note that Andrew Murray is mentioned in the motion. The coaching facilities that were available to him and a number of other players, including his brother, were discussed in an article published in the Sunday Herald in January, which said that

"success has come despite, not because of, the standard of facilities on offer—the coaching session"

that they had been going to

"had been planned for the morning, but was postponed to the afternoon because the Scottish Rugby Union had booked the courts first."

In the same article, Andrew's mother and coach, Judy Murray, is quoted as saying:

"We have no designated court of our own, and the national centre doesn't belong to us in any shape or form ... At the moment, we are beholden to the"

Lawn Tennis Association,

"with a little bit of money from sportscotland.

There's me and two other coaches for the whole of Scotland—that's from the under-10s right through to the seniors. Once kids get to a certain level we're losing them all the time. What I really need is more people to help me, and more people to believe."

The questions remain. What is being done about indoor tennis facilities and about ensuring that there are more coaches to help the likes of Judy Murray? How can we ensure that funding reaches those who need it? It should be noted that Judy Murray resigned her position in Tennis Scotland and that Andrew Murray ended up being taught in Barcelona.

Stewart Stevenson (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)

Will the member take an intervention now?

Brian Monteith (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

No, I have no time for it. I am certainly not wasting my time on an intervention from Mr Stevenson, that's for sure.

As far as football is concerned, funding for all-weather and indoor facilities is welcome, because they are a necessity, and the Executive will enjoy our support on that issue. However, what assurances can the minister provide that public money for youth football will be well managed? Is he able to assure me that it will not be used to create a tier of so-called football co-ordinators who are not coaches but bureaucrats in tracksuits and who ensure that competitiveness is taken out of schools football? At the moment, when a team goes five goals up, the score is reset to nil-nil; competitive games are not allowed, and everyone is a winner. Anyone who does not believe that that is happening need only look at Edinburgh schools.

How does the minister respond to serious concerns about the Scottish Football Association's mismanagement of public money at the Scottish Football Museum? The issue is important, because the SFA is the channel for the public funding that he has announced. Moreover, what confidence does he have in the SFA when it rides roughshod over the Scottish Schools Football Association and the Scottish Youth Football Association? What confidence does he have when the SFA youth co-ordinator resigns not long after his appointment and just before the News of the World publishes an article? What confidence does he have when premier league clubs organise training days for their youth players on Saturday mornings to stop them playing for their school football teams? What is the SFA doing about that? Should it get away with taking no action and continue to receive public money?

Many great things are happening in Scottish sport. A number of those have been mentioned today. The unofficial world golf champions are the team from the University of Stirling, which has won all its games against universities in the United States. The best football match that I saw last season was the Scottish schools senior shield final at Hampden. That is the level at which we must encourage sport. I look forward to hearing more challenging announcements and more answers from the minister.

Margaret Jamieson (Labour, Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for giving me the opportunity to make my first speech in this stunning complex.

One of the great benefits of being in Government—as we are in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom—is that we can put our beliefs into practice. That requires clear policies, implemented with determination and certainty. The programme for government set out clear priorities and policies in sport, but I am not sure that we have been as effective as we might have been in implementing those.

I can speak only from my experience as a constituency MSP who is trying to promote the well-being of the people of Kilmarnock and Loudoun. I get the impression that too often people in the sports establishment are interfering with our policies, watering them down and even changing them to their own ends. It takes a strong ministerial hand on the tiller to drive through change. That is what we need to ensure a successful sporting Scotland.

I give as an example the proposal for football academies. Investment was made in some clubs, and it was agreed that a football academy would be based at Kilmarnock Football Club—I am sure that you looked forward to that as much as I did, Presiding Officer. Much work was done to advance the proposal, and we were convinced that the academy would be set up as an effective partnership involving Kilmarnock Football Club, East Ayrshire Council, sportscotland and the Executive. At the last moment, we were advised that, to coin a phrase, the goalposts had been moved. The new aim was to have a multisports academy. Nothing daunted, we prepared a submission for such an academy, in which many sports, the health service and further education would be partners. Again the rules were changed, to demand a facility that would be beyond the scope of a medium-sized local authority such as East Ayrshire Council.

The people of Kilmarnock and Loudoun still do not have the sports academy that would enable them to develop the excellence for which the policy aims. Despite meetings with the minister and the involvement of politicians at all levels, we have not been able to identify who was responsible for this flip-flop of policy, which does nothing to give my constituents the impression of consistency and determination in pursuing excellence in sport.

Policies cannot be geared only towards excellence. We must also direct our attention to involvement in sport. For the sake of our nation's health, we must attract increasing numbers of young people to sporting activity. However, we must not be seduced by those in traditional sports who say that theirs is the only route to fitness. We must encourage young people to become involved in such sports, but when they choose alternative routes to fitness we must encourage those, too. When a local successful Muay Thai boxing club tried to access funding to develop its sport, the club was told that Muay Thai was not a recognised sport, despite having Olympic recognition. Because of that ruling, the club could not access funding from the local sports council or sportscotland. How does that encourage young people?

The same has happened in the so-called extreme sports. There is and has been a demand in Kilmarnock and Loudoun for skateboarding facilities. However, when the local council examined how it could satisfy that demand it was dissuaded from providing facilities by the insurance demands of its insurers. We know that there is a demand for such facilities—anyone who walks around our streets can see that. We must become proactive in investing in such sports. Instead of looking for reasons not to recognise and support them, we should ask ourselves how we can positively support young people and invest in their priorities.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

Will the member give way?

Margaret Jamieson (Labour, Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

I am about to finish.

The challenge for the minister is to steer a strong course and ensure that all those who deliver our priorities do so in the way we want, rather than in the way they want. If we want to deliver on the priorities of a fitter, healthier and successful Scotland through sport, let us be innovative and proactive, investing in the people's priorities with confidence and consistency. Let us be ambitious for Scotland.

John Farquhar Munro (Liberal Democrat, Ross, Skye and Inverness West)

I am sure that a sporting Scotland would be a successful Scotland, and I welcome the Scottish Executive's commitment to trying to deliver that. However, although I congratulate Scotland's athletes on their recent successes, it must be recognised that they are the cream of a small minority of Scots who participate in sport. Their success indicates to me the potential that Scotland has to produce many world-class athletes. However, it is not an indicator of the overall support that exists for sporting activity. In many ways, the relative success of the few allows the rest of us to delude ourselves into believing that we are a great sporting nation.

There is a much more important issue to address in this debate than that of Scotland's sporting success. In my view, the debate would have been better titled "A sporting Scotland is a healthy Scotland." From all reports, it seems that Scotland is classed as the unhealthiest nation in Europe—not something of which we should be proud, but that I fear may be true. Tackling that problem would not only improve our health but would save money in the long term. Money spent today on sports reduces the demand on the health service next week, next year and in the next decade.

Many members will know that primary schools in rural Scotland are almost devoid of sporting activity. Many have neither sports fields nor physical training instructors. If we are to build sporting activity in Scotland for the future, we must introduce our young people to a wide variety of sports at a young age. That will not necessarily be easy. We must address the challenge of persuading the youth of today that participating in sport offers as much enjoyment as—indeed, more enjoyment than—sitting in front of a television screen playing computer games. That will take a good deal more money, not just parliamentary good will.

As a nation, we are keen to boast of Scottish success on the sports field, but we must not be deluded into thinking that that is anything other than the result of the steely determination of individual sportsmen or sportswomen. Often such success is aided by luck. I say that because in many cases success is possible only because an individual has easy access to good sporting facilities. Most Scottish children are not so lucky. As a result, not only will they not become champions, they may not even stay fit. That is why it is vital that we take action today to encourage mass participation in sports by our children.

Recently I was contacted by a young Inverness student, a lady who competes in the modern pentathlon. Unfortunately, the modern pentathlon is not supported by sportscotland. Why that is the case is a mystery. The young lady to whom I refer is ranked fourth in the world at junior level and fifth in Britain at senior level. She won all three British championships in 2003, but there is a lack of facilities for her discipline in Scotland—she receives no support at all. She has had to move to the University of Bath, where all the facilities for modern pentathlon training are provided. Unfortunately, because this young lady is from Scotland and is not in a discipline recognised by sportscotland, she has to provide all the funding for her activities down there. The students who are alongside her at the University of Bath from England are supported fully by Sport England, so what is wrong with sportscotland that it does not encourage its athletes, particularly those on the elite training programmes?

We recently had a great opportunity to fly the flag for Scotland when we attracted the horse driving championships—an international event that Scotland was proud and honoured to host at Hopetoun House. Efforts were made to get funding from sportscotland and from the Scottish Executive, but it was not available. Were it not for the efforts of volunteers in that area and throughout Scotland, the event would have been lost to Scotland, which would have been a great shame. If we are to become a proud sporting nation, we must give far more support to our young, dedicated athletes at all levels of sport. That will allow us to claim that we truly are a proud sporting nation.

John Swinburne (SSCUP, Central Scotland)

In yesterday's debate on the Holyrood inquiry report, we heard a lot about the importance of symbolism, in particular the symbolism of a building to a nation. I suggest that despite the stushie created by the building, it is not as relevant to the people of Scotland as politicians might like to think.

If we were to ask the man or woman in the street in Scotland what or who motivates them and what symbol of Scotland is important to them, I guess that we would hear answers such as Parkhead, Ibrox, Tynecastle, Easter Road, Murrayfield, Jinky Johnstone, Davie Cooper, Gavin Hastings, Jamie McFadden, Henrik Larsson and Laudrup.

Rhona Brankin (Labour, Midlothian)

I am not suggesting that the member should accost strange women in the street, but does he spend time talking to women about what excites them in sport?

John Swinburne (SSCUP, Central Scotland)

I take Rhona Brankin's point.

I congratulate the 24 Scots who competed in team Great Britain at this year's Olympics and the Scots who are currently competing in the paralympics. However, I cannot help thinking that the excellent results of those Olympians were more often a case of winning despite the lack of facilities rather than as a result of long-term, radical and successful sporting development. That is not meant to be a negative jibe as part of the usual Scottish cringe; those seem to be the sentiments of the Olympians themselves.

Scotland's four Olympic medal winners were rightly hosted by the First Minister in Edinburgh a few weeks ago. However, I was dismayed to learn that all four live outwith Scotland. In fact, they are forced to do so in order to pursue their sport. Canoeist Campbell Walsh said:

"I would happily be based in Scotland if there were facilities, but to train at the top level in my sport you have to move to Nottingham."

Jamie McGrigor also mentioned that point.

Most of the sports successes of this country are a result of personal endeavour, not investment at grass-roots level in our communities or schools. The recently announced funding from the Scottish Executive and private partners for institutes of sport is commendable—particularly the funding for projects that will bring us much-needed indoor facilities in a country that has such a poor climate. The Executive's £50 million will be topped up to £230 million thanks to private partners: that funding will represent a large building programme.

At the announcement of the funding, the Minister for Finance and Public Services, Andy Kerr, said that

"the new national and regional facilities will also help us realise our ambition of making Scotland a major events destination"

and

"will allow us to build on our recent successes in attracting major sporting events here in the future."

Scotland hosted the champions league final, but why did Scotland, such a great footballing nation, not have the ambition to make a solo bid for the 2008 European championships. When I consider the ambitious investment that is being made at Wembley, I feel cheated given the lack of hope and ambition put into Hampden by comparison.

The reality is bleak. Some of our communities and the citizens living in them are so excluded that taking part in sport is alien to them; even more alien to them is the notion of entering a sports institution. Research on participation in sports shows that sports that had some of Scotland's Olympic successes—rowing and sailing—enjoy the least participation. The number of people participating in outdoor activities also declines in lower social classes.

That brings me back to Jinky Johnstone and others who learned their trade in the streets of their respective communities. What is happening in our streets and playing areas in Scotland today? Traffic prevents ball games from being played in the streets. Too many of our playing areas are being targeted for development, and action must be taken to end that practice. Representatives of the National Playing Fields Association gave a very good talk to the cross-party group on sport; they explained how they literally have to defend green spaces in our communities. Our national planning policy guidelines contain a presumption against development on playing fields but, despite that, local authorities seem to look to their own financial interests and seem very willing to sell off those spaces for property and commercial development.

The National Playing Fields Association has campaigned tirelessly against the loss of playing fields throughout Scotland, and the Scottish Executive could take positive action by making it a statutory consultee in future planning applications. Instead of selling off such spaces, local authorities should consider how they can best be used for the better health of their communities and the sporting prosperity of our country. We all like heroes and a country needs heroes, but they must come from diverse backgrounds and must speak with different voices. Jimmy Reid, of Clydeside fame, famously said that the poor were deprived of sporting opportunities. He said:

"Give me a thousand pairs of running shoes and I will give you an Olympic medallist."

Michael McMahon (Labour, Hamilton North and Bellshill)

I welcome the personal commitment that the minister gave this morning to sporting activity. The progress made so far by the Scottish Executive is welcome. There has been significant improvement, but this morning we need to take the opportunity to urge further development.

As I have shared some sports fields with the minister, he will know that I engage in sport, despite my physique. There is no truth in the rumour that I believe that if God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them further up my body, nor do I hold to the opinion that the one advantage of exercise is that we will all die healthier.

I join the minister in recognising the contribution of the Scots paralympians. Their achievements in recent days have been important to us all in enabling us to recognise their value and what they can contribute to Scottish society. However, important though the recognition given by the minister and other members is, I urge the minister to go further and to ensure that the paralympians are recognised in the same way as our other Olympians were recognised, and that they also have a reception at Bute House and are given the opportunity to go through the streets of Edinburgh.

It is vital that sport is seen as a way of promoting inclusion in our society. We must use the examples of James Anderson, Andrew Lindsay and others who have done so well for us in recent times and add them to the Colin Montgomeries and Andrew Murrays who play sport at the top level. Our contribution to the disabled community must be to promote the accessibility of sports to them.

As John Swinburne and others said, there are certainly potential heroes and top sportspeople out there in Scotland. It is also true that there are potential heroes in the disabled community who cannot get access to sport because the facilities are not there. Disabled people are not taken into consideration when sports facilities are located too far away for people to be able to travel to them, are not accessible and offer a restricted range of sports.

What is true for the disabled community is true for the rest of society. Members have pointed out that the standard of available facilities is vital. For example, there is a sports club in my home village of Newarthill, in my constituency, which is primarily an amateur boxing club but is open to the wider community as a fitness centre. Unfortunately, the facility that people use is a dilapidated old portakabin, which was donated by a former business. The club is the only such facility in the village and the community needs modern facilities. I have worked closely with the club to try to secure support and resources from sportscotland for a new facility, and we have tried to draw in people from the private sector who have a commitment to the local community. However, we are caught in a dilemma. The demand is there—local football clubs would participate in a new facility—but the resources are not there to provide the facilities that the football clubs would need. As the minister knows, football is primarily played during the winter months, when it gets dark early, so floodlights are needed if young boys and girls are to be able to participate. However, the resources are not there to provide floodlights. It is a catch-22 situation: there is an identified demand and a willingness to provide facilities, but the resources are not there to provide the facilities that would attract more resources. That vicious circle needs to be addressed in any future strategies that the minister might develop.

There is real frustration that young people who want to participate in sport cannot get access to sport. I am from Lanarkshire, so I can knock on the head the myth that young people do not want to take part in youth activities because they do not want to spill their Buckfast. Young people want to get involved in sport, but the facilities are not available in their communities to allow them to do so and to become the heroes that we have heard about. We must exploit the potential that is there and do all that we can to ensure that if someone has ability—whatever their sport might be—the facilities are available to enable them to tap into that ability. We do not want more people to leave Scotland to play for England, as Peter Nicol did, because it is their only way of making progress; we want people to stay in Scotland because they can achieve their full potential in Scotland—that is what this debate should be about.

We must ensure that Scots regard Scotland as the place where they can maximise their abilities. As John Swinburne said, our bigger football clubs, such as Celtic and Rangers should be regarded not as the big stepping stones that players can use to get to England or Europe, but as clubs in which players can maximise their ability and which will be given support to compete in Europe or wherever they are, using Scots players. We must ensure that players regard Scots football and sports clubs as the places where they can be all that they can be. I welcome what the minister said, but I urge him to go as far as possible as quickly as possible.

Trish Godman (Labour, West Renfrewshire)

We must move to five-minute speeches because of the number of members who want to speak. I call Stewart Stevenson and thank him for agreeing to limit his speech to five minutes.

Stewart Stevenson (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)

I support the definition of sport in the sport 21 strategy, which was set out by the Council of Europe in 2001. Thinking more tightly promotes mental well-being—let us all try to do that.

I declare an interest. Members of my immediate family have received grants from sportscotland. I assure the minister that we have contributed to target 7 in the sport 21 strategy by delivering one world championship so far. I hope that my relatives will continue to be successful on the international stage.

Professionalism in sport has not been mentioned. My view is that such professionalism is unhelpful. In Scotland our heroes used to be the Eric Liddells of this world, but now they are the Eric Cantonas. When I was an asthmatic young lad I was not fit and could engage in sport only to a limited extent, but I used to play rugby. I could play in the front row of the scrum because the rules—when I was a lad—were quite simple. The ball would go oot the back of the scrum, get fumbled by somebody at the back, and a loose maul would form. By the time I got out of the set scrum and joined the back of the loose maul—I could walk to it—the whistle would have been blown and we would have a set scrum. My point is that rugby used to be a game for players of all abilities and fitness levels. The rot set in when the rules about kicking into touch were changed to make a better game for the spectators. As a result, rugby can be played only by fit people and if I was an asthmatic youngster today, I would not be able to play. The changes to the rules were driven by the needs of spectators, to the detriment of the people who engage in the sport. Professionalism and a reliance on spectators do not offer a useful way forward.

I am surprised that there has been no mention of a Scottish sporting tradition. Highland games have been held since the 13th century. Those local, competitive sporting events are accessible to all. My young neighbours Amie and Lucie knock on my door every year after the Cornhill Highland games to show me the medals that they have won. We should support such positive engagement. For example, it would cost the Executive a little but almost nothing to buy the medals for local Highland games, but the indication from the centre that the games' contribution to Scottish sporting life is valued would motivate organisers to keep going. Even playing the bagpipes meets the definition of sport that the Executive uses. Of course, playing the bagpipes improves people's breathing capacity.

I am approaching my bus-pass years—I will reach them before the next election—but age is no barrier to participation in sport. In 1987, I saw the Australian over-40s long-distance running champion on Australian television. He was over 90 and he had won the competition for 41 consecutive years. A key message is that someone who starts fit can stay fit.

The Tories suggested that tobacco somehow makes a positive contribution to sport—for heaven's sake, we know why Jamie McGrigor and Brian Monteith would not take interventions. We must nail that lie. The tobacco industry is no longer as engaged in sport as it used to be, which is excellent news that sends the right message to people in communities throughout Scotland.

Members should consider some of the things that we could all do. For example, we could club together to buy equipment to help us to become reasonably fit—there is a room in which we could put such equipment. I do not suggest that we rely on the public purse for the money; we could provide the equipment ourselves and set an example. More of us should walk from Waverley station; it is 10 minutes for me and my wife tells me that it is 12 minutes. If high heels are a barrier, I ask the minister to dig deep and buy them some shoes just for the journey. They will last for a long time because they will only be worn for 20 or 30 minutes a day.

Let Scotland's slogan be "Rise up from your couch. You have nothing to lose but your blubber." The facilities are on our doorstep; it is Scotland's countryside and it is free.

Elaine Murray (Labour, Dumfries)

I reassure Stewart Stevenson that I am perfectly capable of walking from Waverley in high heels, and considerably further than that.

I rise to speak, first because I had the good fortune to be the convener of the sport 21 review group, which reported in 2003. I notice that the chair of sportscotland, Alastair Dempster, and Lee Cousins from sportscotland are in the gallery. Lee Cousins was very diligent in the production of the review and did a tremendous amount of background work.

Brian Monteith referred to vacuous and glossy brochures being produced by the Scottish Executive. I certainly hope that he does not include the review report within that definition, because it was produced through consensus and discussion with the entire sports community and it includes several extremely challenging and important targets.

One of the most hard-fought of those targets was to provide every child with at least two hours of quality physical education every week. At the time of the review, that was a contentious idea. I am sure that my colleague Karen Gillon will remember that, because she served on the review group as convener of the then Education, Culture and Sport Committee. We got strong advice that it would be difficult to deliver on that objective because of curriculum constraints and the shortage of PE teachers. However, the group continued to fight vociferously for it and it got through, and I am delighted that Scottish ministers are determined to overcome the barriers to providing children with that and are making that commitment clear again today.

I am slightly surprised that, in their amendments, the SNP and the Tories exclude that commitment to two hours a week of quality physical education. There seems to be a suggestion that we are concentrating too much on the school experience, but it is essential that we get young people to adopt a healthy lifestyle when they are at school, because that is the easiest thing to do. It is more difficult to get us old fatties to turn our lifestyles around after many decades of not being particularly fit. It is important for future generations that we get young people actively engaged in physical activity from an early age, and that is why that commitment is so important.

I cannot take interventions in my speech because of time constraints. However, perhaps a SNP member might be able to tell me why there is a motion at the SNP conference that suggests that money should be taken from sportscotland to fund a health programme.

Stewart Stevenson (Scottish National Party, Banff and Buchan)

It is a tiny amount.

Elaine Murray (Labour, Dumfries)

I am sorry, but I have not got time for interventions.

In my brief time as a minister, we were always trying to get money from the health and education portfolios, because we wanted to make the connection that sport and culture are so important to the national health of our country. They should be funded more directly and that is why we were trying to raid those budgets. I hope that the SNP does not want to reverse that.

Of course, sporting excellence is essential to inspiring participation in sport and physical activity. It also encourages community spirit and identity. I had no problem cheering for Britain at the Olympics. I cheered for Scotland at the Commonwealth games, for Britain at the Olympics and for Europe during the Ryder cup. Perhaps that says something about devolution.

In the short time that I have left, I pay tribute to the valuable contribution of the voluntary sector and the huge army of volunteers who give their hours to be coaches, to serve on sports councils, and to nurture and reward young talent. A tremendous success in Dumfries has been the midnight football programme, which the local community police organised to address some of the problems of antisocial behaviour and under-age drinking that they were considering. It was well attended, although mainly by young men. A few young women took part, but more young women came along to have a look at the young men who were taking part.

Karen Gillon (Labour, Clydesdale)

That is a sport.

Elaine Murray (Labour, Dumfries)

Yes, indeed.

I touch also on the problems of some talented young people in getting the funding to get to competitions as they get more talented. I have to direct young people who come to me with inquiries to several bodies, including the council, area committees and education trusts, and I wonder whether that could be streamlined. If there was a single portal that young people could use to get support, it would be easier for them to go to international competitions and to make progress in developing their talents.

I am pleased that the Executive continues to acknowledge the huge contribution that sport makes to Scotland, not only to our cultural identity but to our national health. I hope that sport will continue to move up the list of the Executive's priorities in years to come, because it is so valuable to our nation.

James (Conservative, Lothians)

I add my congratulations to our medallists from Scotland. Perhaps one of the most considerable successes was that of the Scottish paralympic cyclist, Aileen McGlynn, who claimed a silver medal on Monday 20 September in the open sprint class for visually impaired athletes. It was also wonderful to see the Scottish Olympic gold and silver medal winners, who included Chris Hoy for cycling, Shirley Robertson for sailing, Campbell Walsh for the kayak slalom, and Katherine Grainger for the coxless pairs rowing. Those Scottish medallists are all excellent role models for our young people who aspire to achieve excellence and who realise that it can be within their grasp.

John Swinburne quoted Campbell Walsh in an interview with The Scotsman saying:

"I would happily be based in Scotland if there were the facilities, but to train at the top level in my sport you have to move to Nottingham."

I hope that in working up the national and regional networks of multisport facilities, the minister will keep in mind the need to have the most modern sports facilities that are as good as any in the world.

I have three brief points to make. First, sport improves the health of the nation. We know that there is an alarmingly high rate of heart disease, stroke and cancer in certain areas of Scotland. A particular background factor is obesity; that was touched on by Donald Gorrie and Sylvia Jackson and Richard Lochhead spoke on that theme. Although it is acknowledged that improving the national diet has a beneficial effect, so do physical activity and sport. Indeed, healthy eating and exercise will make for a fitter, healthier work force and people who enjoy a higher quality of life and live longer.

Secondly, arising out of the need to address current poor levels of health among young people, there should be a stronger commitment to competitive sport in the Executive's sports strategy. Great benefits derive from competitive sport for young people to communities through the good health of those involved and the reduction of antisocial activities of all kinds.

Thirdly, encouraging excellence in sport will benefit Scotland and its economy enormously through increased employment caused by sports tourism. For example, the six nations rugby tournament had a considerable economic impact on Scotland and Edinburgh. Research showed that the immediate impact on the Scottish economy of each international match was substantial and was estimated to be at least £20 million, with £12 million going into the Edinburgh economy. Furthermore, overseas visitors were found to spend almost five times as much as Scottish residents.

Much has been planned by the minister and the Executive, but it would be helpful if, in his winding-up speech, the minister could tell us the current position on the national rock climbing centre at Ratho. The world youth climbing championships were held there earlier this month and more than 350 competitors from 30 nations attended the four-day event.

Earlier this year, in a reply to a question, the minister said:

"sportscotland is open-minded about trying to sustain the centre as a climbing centre."—[Official Report, 18 March 2004; c 6847.]

We are aware that the centre has encountered a number of problems and it would be helpful if the minister could say how those have been or will be surmounted. I hope that the minister will make certain that funding gets through to where it is most needed and that sport will be at the forefront of his forward planning in the best interests of the nation.

Mark Ballard (Green, Lothians)

Sport is not just about achieving excellence or being active in school sports; it is about access to recreational and play space. It is vital that we have safe spaces for children's spontaneous play. I well remember that when I was growing up I went out and played at being Daley Thompson or John McEnroe or Geoff Boycott or whoever was on the television, not because I had been told to and not because we had the sporting equipment or the sporting facilities to do it, but because that was what was on TV and that was what we felt like doing. Where are the spaces for that kind of spontaneous play now? Increasingly, our residential areas are designed for cars, not kids. Streets are for traffic, not for children playing on.

John Swinburne made a good point about the fact that if we design our streets for play, it will be possible to have a new generation who learn what they are good at and who learn, like me, that they are duff at cricket but good at other sports. That is the way forward in encouraging participation in sports.

The national strategy for sport—sport 21—states:

"the fastest-growing activities are ... those that occur in informal or family settings",

while sports activities in formal settings have "largely remained static". Does the minister accept that informal play settings are important to the overall sports participation agenda?

All too often, adults' use of public space is prioritised over children's. Too many signs in Scotland say "No ball games". Research by the Children's Society found that while two thirds of children aged between seven and 16 like to play outside, 80 per cent say that they have been told off for doing so, and one in three say that, because of those telling-offs, they do not play outdoors any more. That is a real shame. Children are seen too often as a nuisance and too rarely as fellow citizens who can make a valuable contribution to the welfare of our community.

We need to encourage spontaneous play. I am talking in particular not about the back streets, but about the urban green spaces—the alternatives to playing on street corners. As John Swinburne outlined, we are experiencing a loss of urban green spaces, which is dramatically limiting opportunities for informal sports participation. Youngsters in my region who aspire to be the next Scottish Olympic gold medal winners may find that their football pitches or athletics track have been earmarked for housing, car parking or even—here in Edinburgh—a roads depot.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

Will the member give way?

Mark Ballard (Green, Lothians)

I am sorry, but I am short of time.

Entire communities lose out when green space vanishes. Amateur golfers cannot practise their swings, local children cannot be part of ever-expanding football teams, people cannot play keepie-uppie, and those who enjoy a walk cannot go for one. Green spaces are being replaced with formal, organised recreation spaces. Five-a-side pitches that have to be booked are out of the reach of children. Formal play spaces are replacing informal play spaces. That is a loss. We should recognise that the provision of formal facilities cannot replace informal facilities.

In Edinburgh, the local authority-owned playing fields at Meggetland, which have already been mostly lost to development, are facing new proposals for underground car parking. Grass pitches will go and be replaced with one fenced, all-weather pitch. That will not make the loss good. St Augustine's RC High School's playing fields are sought after as the new home for the council's roads depot. Dreghorn polo fields face another bid for 47 luxury homes. All over my region, fields and informal play spaces are being lost.

Last month, Westminster's Secretary of State for Education and Skills, Charles Clarke, announced that playing fields will be sold off only as a last resort. Let us hope that the Government means it this time, and let us see similar measures become law here, not simply guidelines that can be overruled. Our nation deserves easily accessible, no-cost, informal recreation space. That is part of the basis of building a fit, sporting and successful Scotland.

Trish Godman (Labour, West Renfrewshire)

Before I move to winding-up speeches, I remind members and members of the public that mobile phones must be switched off.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

The motion is full of warm words and great intentions, so I will certainly vote for it—I am part of the independent group so I cannot speak for everybody else—but I take issue with it all the same. It states:

"That the Parliament recognises the significant progress made since devolution in increasing participation in sport."

I am sure that the minister has access to the same figures as me, which show that since 1999 there has been a 2 per cent decrease in participation in sport. I do not blame the minister for that, but it would be better to acknowledge reality before we judge whether the policies that have been outlined are meeting the challenges.

Almost every member this morning has referred to the lack of resources, therefore our amendment is relevant, because we propose ways in which resources can be channelled into community sport and elite sport, but particularly into community sport.

Let us start with local authorities. I return to a familiar theme that members have heard me expound before. Having more physical education teachers in schools is a necessity. While I appreciate that the motion refers to that and that there is a target for more PE teachers to be in place by 2007, I am interested in how that will be achieved. The University of Edinburgh is the only place that trains PE teachers. I know that there is a postgraduate course at the University of Strathclyde, but I will not refer to that at the moment, as I am talking about people who are at school and who want to be PE teachers, who will likely go to Edinburgh in the first instance. The numbers in training at the University of Edinburgh are going to be down—not by much, but they will still be down—from 101 or 102 to 99, so the trend does not favour the Executive's good intentions. There is no way round the issue: education authorities must have the resources to employ more teachers.

Balerno High School has an inspirational head of PE called Jennifer Grassick. The community development of sporting activity in that area has come from the school and is feeding into local sporting clubs. Not only has the school taken responsibility for its pupils, but it is helping them to learn about organising sporting clubs. Whether she has twisted the arms of her fellow teachers or inspired them, Jennifer Grassick has persuaded them to help her to coach sports. Someone referred to the fact that teachers no longer do that on a voluntary basis. I believe that if teachers in the independent sector take sports, they get a 5 or 10 per cent addition to their salaries. I am not proposing that, but I am suggesting that without inspirational PE teachers such as Jennifer Grassick, other teachers will not be roped in.

Members have referred to the Government target of having two hours of PE a week, but that is not enough. If we seriously want people to think about sporting activity and exercise as part of their lives and as being as essential as taking in food, they have to participate in it every day. Some form of physical exercise has to be built into the school curriculum. My colleague Dennis Canavan referred to the McCrone settlement, which suggested replacing principal PE teachers with faculty heads. That is a backward step that is at variance with the Government's intentions. Could we examine that again?

The other aspect of having PE teachers in schools is that they carry sport into the community. We have to sort out how sportscotland can help. Until now, sportscotland has prioritised directing cash into sports clubs and communities, but I have queried that on more than one occasion, and I was interested to hear one or two members query it as well. Margaret Jamieson aptly mentioned a martial arts club that encourages kids in her area to take part and become active, but which is denied the funding that it needs for expansion and promotion because it does not meet the priorities of sportscotland. There has been much discussion of that in the cross-party group on sport, and I pray that it will continue.

We must be careful that we do not appear to be narrow nationalists or, on the other hand, super internationalists, saying, "It's okay, we totally support the London Olympic bid." Look at what that will do to funding for the community development of sport. I, too, would like the Olympics to be held in London, but not at the expense of money that should be spent on encouraging mass participation in community sports. The priority should be to get more people into sports, which would give a bigger skills pool and so greater success at elite level.

While we are talking about elite athletes, I must say that I was not joking when I suggested that Colin Montgomerie should be invited to join us for the Parliament building opening ceremony. He has done more to boost Scottish self-confidence than anyone has recently. We need to get all the role models who have won medals, whether in the Olympics or the paralympics, into schools. After a Scot, Steven Frew, won the rings competition in gymnastics in the Commonwealth games in Manchester, I asked him whether he would be willing to visit Scottish schools. He said, "Of course. I already visit schools in London," but somehow we could not get organised to get him or other medal winners at the Commonwealth games into schools. For goodness' sake, we need to ensure that we get successful Olympians, including disabled Olympians, into schools now, because they are the sort of role models that we need.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

It is a great pleasure to take part in the debate. In doing so, I intend to use the expression "raise the game" only once—I believe that Mr McGrigor thinks that it refers to beaters going into a forest to make sure that the pheasants fly high enough. As I said in debates on sport in the previous chamber, anybody who was at school with me would fall about laughing at the notion of my taking part in such a debate.

The debate has been good and thoughtful. Although different views are expressed in the amendments to the motion, there is a good deal of consensus, which I welcome. This sort of considered, almost tutorial-like discussion is one of the things that the Parliament does best.

The minister said that sport boosts self-confidence and he talked about national and regional sports facilities, an issue to which I will return. Michael Matheson, in a worthy speech, refused to be drawn into a discussion on stiletto heels, but he rightly flagged up the issue of heart disease and suggested that we need to broaden the notion of sport, a point that other members touched on. He also referred to indoor sports facilities, which is another matter to which I will return.

In an interesting speech, Jamie McGrigor seemed to advocate that smoking is not as bad for you as eating fatty foods. That is a debate for another day, but he was courageous to flag up the issue. Dennis Canavan made a good speech. I take his point. We shall probably return to the issue that he raised—the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Donald Gorrie of the Liberal Democrats referred to the contribution that sport can make to local communities' morale. It is a pity that he is not with us now, but we need to flesh out what he and others have said and think about whether we are talking about revenue or capital funding, in the old local authority sense. There is a difference between the two. I suspect that he was referring to revenue funding, but, of course, such funding would not necessarily address the issue of indoor sports facilities. He also talked about the status of PE. There was something in his point that teachers who contribute to out-of-school activities are no longer recognised or supported as they used to be. If members consider the schools in their constituencies, they will see the truth in what he said.

Sylvia Jackson, Richard Lochhead and Brian Monteith made good speeches. Margaret Jamieson started to get into my territory when she talked about broadening the definition of sport, which is hugely important. I have my views on pugilism—I am afraid that boxing leads to brain damage—but the point was well made nevertheless. John Farquhar Munro, who was up next, touched on a similar point in talking about the recognition of various sports. John F talked about a young lady who does modern pentathlon and he mentioned horse riding. We also heard about polo fields, but I have forgotten from whom. Personally, I regard horses as extremely dangerous because one end bites and the other kicks, but there are aficionados of the sport who enjoy it.

Michael McMahon made one of the best speeches of the debate; in fact, it was one of the best speeches so far in the new Parliament building. To judge by the applause for his speech, members agree with that. The issue of accessibility for disabled people is crucial. I will not go into detail, because members know exactly where I am coming from on the issue. Near where I live in the Highlands, there is a weekly swimming session for the disabled, but, as one would expect in the rural Highlands, the availability of transport cuts against the scheme. I know of people who could do with going to the sessions but who languish in their homes because there is nobody to take them. All the speakers in the debate hinted that an holistic approach is needed. I hate that expression, but we need to consider health, education and transport issues together.

Mark Ballard's point about green spaces was well made. There is no lack of green spaces where I live—although, depending on the time of year, they are sometimes brown spaces—but we lack indoor sports facilities. Provision is patchy. When the district councils were aggregated in 1996, some districts were ahead of others. For instance, Ross and Cromarty District Council had put a lot of capital expenditure into sports facilities, whereas Caithness District Council had not. Before the aggregation, district councils such as Ross and Cromarty rushed to complete buildings and hand them on to the successor authority, Highland Council. Unfortunately, because of spending restrictions, that situation has become somewhat preserved in aspic, which means that we have practically no indoor sporting facilities in the Caithness part of my constituency. We must consider what to do about that in the longer term. We cannot have facilities for citizens in some parts of the country, while other citizens simply do not have them. Whether those facilities should be charged for is an issue for another day Reference has rightly been made to medal winners. I salute their performances, but look at me: I am a guy who would never have won a medal in any sport whatever—

Karen Gillon (Labour, Clydesdale)

You still got elected.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

I thank the member for that comment—I trust that the Official Report will pick it up.

We need to remember the skinny, speccy people such as me and the fatties and Michael McMahons who cannot touch their toes. [Laughter.] He said it. If we simply reward people who achieve, we will create a them-and-us situation in which the goodies—the guys who get medals—will be fine, whereas the people who are incapable of achieving such recognition will become couch potatoes and they are the people who could develop heart disease and cancer in later life.

Ted Brocklebank (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

One of the most attractive aspects about the Scots is their competitiveness. "Wha's like us? Damn few and they're a deid." Such harmless bluster contains a grain of truth when one considers what Scots have achieved in many walks of life on many continents for many centuries. If the efforts of our national sporting heroes do not always live up to our aspirations, that makes it all the more pleasurable when Scots do well, as at this year's Olympics and paralympics. Of course, in the game that we gave to the world—golf—it is especially pleasing when Monty comes good, as he did in the Ryder cup.

That point is nowhere more true than with our national game of football, which I do not believe is in quite such a woeful state as Donald Gorrie suggested. Certainly, last night, a rejuvenated Aberdeen side was desperately unlucky at Pittodrie. There is every reason to believe the evidence that workplace productivity falls when the local football team loses. I have no difficulty in accepting Frank McAveety's claim that a more sporting Scotland will be a more successful Scotland. Michael Matheson, in a good speech, and Margo MacDonald, who is a former PE teacher, were correct to say that we still have a long way to go.

The debate has been good and wide ranging and has covered everything from our appalling national health record to the success of our tug-of-war team. We have heard the usual rhetoric of challenges and good intentions from the minister on behalf of the Executive, but, as with the arts, pouring more money into overlapping layers of bureaucracy, endless consultation papers and quangos too often provides more hot air and jobs for the boys and girls without necessarily doing anything meaningful for sport.

I come from St Andrews and belong to two golf clubs in that town, but I confess that I am probably the worst golfer that the place has ever produced. My excuse is that I played rugby during my formative years at Madras College. To judge from Stewart Stevenson's speech, I perhaps played to a marginally higher standard than he did at neighbouring Bell Baxter High School.

As a St Andrean, I am of course delighted that the Executive spends £500,000 a year to encourage a new generation of Scots golfers, but despite the fact that, relatively, Scotland has more golf courses than anywhere in the world, there are even more Scots anglers than Scots golfers. We have some of the greatest salmon rivers in the world as well as quiet trout lochs and rivers on which everyone can fish. Angling contributes more than £100 million a year to Scottish tourism, yet only £90,000 is invested in marketing angling compared to the £700,000 that is spent on golf promotion.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

Is Mr Brocklebank telling us that angling will improve our health? Perhaps it will. I would be interested to know his thoughts on the matter.

Ted Brocklebank (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I am saying that angling can improve our health, absolutely. I accept Jamie Stone's previous description of himself as not being totally expert in athletic matters, but I can tell him that, if he ever has to fight his way up a Highland stream or wrestle with a big salmon, he will know that angling can do something to improve people's health.

Conservatives welcome the active schools programme that the minister and Michael Matheson mentioned. I believe that the current problems with the Scottish rugby team date back to the undervaluing of teachers a generation ago. Dennis Canavan reminded us that in his day—and in mine—teachers willingly gave up their time to coach rugby and other sports outwith the normal curriculum. However, after years in which teachers have been undervalued and have felt unrewarded, that has fallen away. We must encourage teachers to become more involved again. In that regard, Donald Gorrie made a good point about teachers' extra-curricular activities being taken into account when they are interviewed for promotion.

I welcome the minister's commitment, in relation to the physical activity task force, that every child should have at least two hours of high-quality physical education a day, but I must point out that that is what my generation enjoyed all those years ago. Why has that not been a major priority since the Executive came to power?

Earlier, I talked about the competitive nature of the Scots. Sport is about competition, as Brian Monteith rightly said, even if that competition comes down to testing oneself against the elements, a river or a golf course. Life, too, is about competition. However, as Mark Ballard and John Swinburne pointed out, many Labour councils do not seem to have made the necessary link, given that they keep trying to sell off football and rugby pitches in this town and others.

I hope that the Executive is, albeit belatedly, recognising the importance of sport in preparing youngsters for life, as I believe that a more sporting Scotland will eventually bring about a more successful Scotland.

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

Jamie Stone said that people who were at school with him would fall about laughing at the idea of his speaking in a debate on sports. I can tell him that my colleagues have been falling about laughing all week at the idea of my speaking in this debate. I think that it is a punishment for something that I have done wrong.

I never enjoyed sport as a child. In fact, I hated it. I thought that it was absolutely awful. I have great sympathy for children who do not enjoy what we call sport. Earlier, Ted Brocklebank said that it was silly to say that sport is not competitive. I think that that is the nub of the issue. We have to make a distinction between competitive sport for athletes and activity, which can cover all sorts of things that are not competitive sport. People can be active and fit without taking part in sport.

Ted Brocklebank (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I agree with what the member is saying, but does she accept that even the performance-improving business of testing oneself against a machine or measuring on a pedometer how many steps one takes in a day amounts to being in competition with oneself?

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

I cannot think of anything that I would hate to do more than that, but I agree with Mr Brocklebank's point.

I should say that, despite not going in for competitive sport, I was quite a fit child and can still touch my toes.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

Show us.

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

Some other time.

Jamie McGrigor and Margaret Jamieson talked about alternative ways of thinking of activity and sport that are outwith what generally happens in terms of compulsion in schools and so on. There are lots of different ways in which children and adults can be active and become fit.

Frank McAveety talked about increasing the participation base. As many members have noted, however, that means doing some work in relation to facilities. Mark Ballard and John Swinburne talked about parks and green spaces. Indoor facilities are also important. The selling off of school playing fields and the reduction in the size of school playgrounds is a problem that we need to address.

Sylvia Jackson and Michael Matheson talked about PPP projects in relation to ensuring that facilities were in place for communities to use. We hear that, in some cases, those facilities are being made available, but we need to consider revising existing contracts to improve the situation.

Michael Matheson mentioned the TASS initiative that runs south of the border. I have read about it and it strikes me as a sensible initiative that does not cost that much. It is designed to make it easier for young people to continue to pursue sporting careers after leaving school instead of letting that raw talent go to waste. The success that we have had with Scottish athletes and Scottish sports shows that we have a lot of raw talent in this country. However, only some of it is being tapped into.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

Does the member agree that the talent-spotting scheme that is operated by sportscotland is not hitting the mark because it is not developed enough where children are at the age when their talent can be judged? Because the scheme focuses on children at too young an age, we are losing potentially talented athletes.

Linda Fabiani (Scottish National Party, Central Scotland)

I am sure that that is true and I suggest that the scheme could be revised with input from people who have studied the situation in detail.

The SNP agrees with Dennis Canavan's amendment, to which Margo MacDonald also spoke, because we believe that the issue comes down to resources. We can talk all that we like about the many improvements that can be made without extra resourcing but, if we really want to meet the targets that have been put in place, we will have to make resources available. It is interesting that the national governing bodies of sport that are funded by sportscotland have had no increase in funding in five years, because sportscotland does not have the necessary resources.

That brings me to the London Olympics bid, about which we heard from Michael Matheson and Margo MacDonald. Yes, it would be grand if our athletes could go and take part in the London Olympics, but sportscotland has said that, if it loses more than £40 million from lottery funds because of the London Olympics, it will have to end programmes that provide support to grass-roots and elite sport in Scotland. We have to consider the issue carefully. We await with interest further details of the funding arrangements for the implementation of the Olympics bid.

Some of what Elaine Murray said interested me, but I think that she has misunderstood the motion that is before the SNP conference. It is interesting to note that, at its conferences, the SNP takes motions and amendments from its members and forms policy on that basis. We do not go to conference with motions that will definitely become policy. The motion that Elaine Murray talked about will be debated, along with every other aspect of our policies.

Elaine Murray took the SNP to task for not mentioning the Executive's commitment to ensuring that there are two hours of compulsory sport a week in schools. However, much more is missed out of the Executive's motion than is missed out of the SNP's amendment. For example, although the physical activity task force had four strands—schools, homes, workplaces and communities—the Executive has mentioned only schools. Our amendment is much broader and more closely reflects the studies that have been done.

I will finish by agreeing with something that Elaine Murray said—one out of three ain't bad. She spoke about the volunteers who spend a great deal of time participating in sport in communities and helping others to do so. They do a lot of grand work without pay. Most years, I manage to get along to the East Kilbride sports awards. I am always fascinated by the range of sporting activity that is available for all in my community and I am impressed by the number of people who freely give up a lot of their time every week to help to promote that. I salute those people as well as the wonderful Scottish athletes who have done us proud lately.

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

We have heard many positive speeches from members of all political parties and none about the fact that sport is an important element in our attempt to build a confident and accessible Scotland that is successful at the highest levels. In the time allotted, I will probably not be able to get through all the points that have been raised. I will try my best to identify the ones that I have not managed to mention in my summing up and I will respond directly to the members who raised them.

It is important to clarify a couple of issues on which Michael Matheson focused. He asked about the talented athletes scholarship scheme that was announced by the DCMS in England. It is intriguing that the SNP has examined a model from England and says that it is importable to Scotland. However, I do not think that the scheme is necessarily applicable to Scotland, because we already have, in our talented athletes programme, our area institutes and the national institute, programmes that support and develop athletes. I welcome the fact that the DCMS is catching up with Scotland.

Michael Matheson's second point was about the audit of the swimming pool estate and the indoor sports facilities estate. I have already given an assurance in a parliamentary answer that a report on the matter will be made available to the Parliament, by the end of autumn, I hope, but certainly into the early months of winter. I guarantee that it will inform much of the debate that we need about the estate. The matter is about not just the Executive's responsibility for estate development, but how we pull together the partnerships that will address the issues. I assure the Parliament that we will make progress on that.

Members from all parts of the chamber mentioned the Ratho quarry investment. A meeting took place this week that included officials from sportscotland and the local MSP, Margaret Smith, and I hope that some progress will be made from those deliberations. As members are aware, there is a combination of investment from the Executive and other agencies, as well as commercial investment, so we must treat the discussions sensitively. However, the Executive is keen to ensure that the facility is retained and developed. A number of national governing bodies use the facility, so it is in our interests to try to sustain it. If people and their families have not seen it or had the opportunity to participate, I recommend it to them. It is a wonderful new asset that has been developed in the recent past.

I reassure members from all parts of the chamber who made points about the debate on PE in schools. We know that we want to make substantial progress, but I remember that, in previous debates in the Parliament, members bemoaned the fact that we did not have a strategy on activity in schools. Through a combination of the active schools programme, the sports co-ordinators programme and the development that Peter Peacock has announced, we have given a commitment to ensuring that there is good-quality PE provision. Having spoken to a number of senior staff in schools, and having been a teacher in schools, I know that, although we could put things on the curriculum, the important point is the quality of support and development. We could say that there should be two hours of PE, but if it is of poor quality the children and youngsters will not be persuaded that they should continue with the activity beyond their school lives. I want to ensure that we make progress on that.

It was ironic to hear some of the comments from the Conservatives. I understand the desire for a bi-partisan approach, but much of the debate in the 1980s was about the polarisation between the Government and schools. The impact of that was reflected in how teachers felt about their work load. As an individual who was involved in the process both as a trade unionist and as a teacher, I saw the benefit of extra-curricular sports activity. I hope that we are making progress on retrieving some of the ground that was lost during that period, which was detrimental.

Rhona Brankin (Labour, Midlothian)

I welcome the increase in the number of hours of PE in our schools. Does the minister agree that a distinctive feature of a good school is what goes on outside the conventional hours of 9 to 4? Does he agree that the curriculum review must consider what goes on in extra-curricular activities?

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

Peter Peacock has given an assurance that, as part of our commitment to the provision of additional PE teachers and our commitment to two hours of PE activity in the curriculum, there will be a substantial monitoring strategy to address the issue that the member raises. I assure her that that will be part of the broader debate about the role that extra-curricular activity can play in the development of individuals, both personally and educationally.

Sylvia Jackson asked what we are doing about tennis development in Scotland; Brian Monteith raised the same issue in what was, if I may say so, a sterling performance. I assure them that we will provide £500,000 to ensure that there will be two additional indoor courts and two outdoor clay courts to improve the facilities. We must also recognise that, for people such as Andrew Murray to continue to succeed, it is important for them to have experience of training and development not only in Scotland, but outside Scotland. To compete at the very top level, players need the peer group of competition that is provided through that international activity and I assure members that we want to make progress on that.

It is important for members of the Executive to continue to collaborate on budgets. I welcome the commitment from overall health spending to the active schools programme. Money that would have been allocated to health was factored across, which is a positive step.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

The minister will be aware that I have corresponded with him several times on Embo football club, which is a tiny club in a remote part of the Highlands. It appears that, because of red tape and rules and regulations, sportscotland cannot put in the money that is desperately needed. Will the minister concede that we must do some work on the co-ordination of different funding sources?

Frank McAveety (Labour, Glasgow Shettleston)

Members made valuable contributions on how we should streamline applications and I want to take that forward from the debate. On regional developments, there is a major issue about ensuring that areas that are disconnected from substantial centres of population have the opportunity to find ways forward. I am happy to discuss that with the member.

Margaret Jamieson raised a number of important issues about the development of national and regional sports facilities and of new sports that are not recognised at present. I will be pulling together a meeting of the three councils in Ayrshire to address the issue. I gave Margaret Jamieson and the MP for Kilmarnock and Loudoun that commitment when I met them a number of months ago. I will continue to work towards achieving that commitment and I hope that we can pull a partnership together, as that would be a welcome development. On the recognition of minor sports, I note that the home country sporting councils identify the criteria for recognising sports. Debates will continue to take place on the matter and I will explore further the points that Margaret Jamieson has raised.

Two other substantial issues that came through in the debate are local access and informal play. The planning section of the Executive will, through the planning guidelines, address the amount of space that is available in communities for informal play. Mark Ballard raised that issue and spoke about it reasonably. However, I do not think that it is acceptable to claim that, if we reduce the number of certain kinds of playing fields, we diminish the quality of the environment for sport. I have no nostalgia for either red blaes or black ash, which were regular features of the sporting environments that contributed to the excellent quality of my football ability. The debate that sportscotland has with local authorities is about how, if there is a new development, we should build that into community planning and planning outlines in relation to sports strategies for wider communities.

I do not want to intrude on Michael McMahon's contribution on physical activity. I say to him that I do not think that the problem is going down to touch one's toes; the big challenge is getting back up afterwards. In his area of North Lanarkshire, pioneering schemes are taking place in schools, particularly with the development of sports comprehensives and partnerships with local authorities. Again, we can continue to make substantial developments with those.

A number of members raised issues about major events. We in Scotland have had some success in attracting major events. We will have to reserve judgment about the 2012 Olympics and other events until we see the criteria that are set by the governing bodies and until we know what our national sporting body considers to be an appropriate response. Our experience from the 2008 bid will influence and shape our perspective on that. We need to make parallels with bids that we might consider for other projects.

Margo MacDonald talked about celebrating winners. We already have sporting champions going into schools and I will continue to develop that programme, because it is important for successful athletes, including those who were in Athens recently, to inspire youngsters. A point was made about recognition for Colin Montgomerie in relation to the opening of the new Parliament building. I believe that he has a major golf match on that day and that he therefore cannot attend the opening, but an invitation was offered to him. I am sure that he will be recognised at some time in due course.

Since 1999, there have been substantial changes. Of course, the Parliament aspires for more. There have been major developments since devolution and they are commendable. In my opinion, they would not have happened without devolution and they have been a tribute to the politicians in the chamber. I hope that, as well as building a new Parliament building, we are building a sporting Scotland that will have success in the future. I hope that members will support the motion.

First Minister's Question Time

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow)

I know that this is becoming a bit of a tradition, but I start by congratulating Colin Montgomerie on sinking the winning putt in the Ryder cup. I am sure that all members in the chamber will agree that it was a stunning performance.

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S2F-1072)

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

One thing that we will discuss is how to recognise the efforts not just of Colin Montgomerie, but of those paralympians who have made fantastic efforts simply in competing—although those who have won medals deserve particular congratulations—in the current paralympics. They do themselves, their families and their countries proud.

At next Wednesday's meeting of the Cabinet, we will discuss how we can best take forward any potential bid that Scotland might make for the Commonwealth games in 2014. This evening, the Commonwealth Games Council for Scotland will meet to choose between Glasgow and Edinburgh for the preferred bid from Scotland. A period of about six to nine months will then be needed to assess that bid. If the preferred city is chosen, we will be centrally involved in that. We have a strong vision that Scotland should host the Commonwealth games at some stage in the near future. However, if we are to do that, unlike in 1986 we will do it properly, we will do it well and we will make Scotland proud.

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow)

I share the First Minister's ambition in that regard. I also agree that watching the paralympics is an absolute inspiration.

The First Minister made the following simple commitment in the Scottish Executive's partnership agreement. The first line of its first paragraph states:

"Growing the economy is our top priority."

In light of that statement, does the First Minister share my concern that businesses in Scotland pay a higher level of business rates than businesses south of the border do? Does he have any plans to cut business rates to help the Scottish economy to flourish and grow?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Businesses in Scotland do not pay a higher rate of business rates than businesses south of the border pay. The calculation based on the rate poundage in Scotland produces an equivalent take. In fact, given that on two occasions in the past three years the Executive's decisions have reduced the proportion of business rates, I think that we have put the majority of Scotland's businesses at a competitive advantage in comparison with their colleagues south of the border.

We will announce the direction for our decisions on business rates for next year, the year after and the year after that in the spending review statement next week. The detail of those decisions will be announced in the normal course of events in November and December later this year.

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow)

Scottish business pays more. That is a statement of fact. I find the First Minister's answer very interesting. The end of his answer was illuminating because it is not quite what his own office says about that policy. Perhaps I will return to that later.

In the meantime, I remind Mr McConnell of the commitment that he gave last year to be open and transparent and to accept new ideas wherever they came from. Let me ask him about another policy idea. I want to see a non-means-tested citizens pension to tackle the scandal of pensioner poverty in Scotland. Will the First Minister speak up for Scotland's pensioners by asking the United Kingdom Government to examine that proposal?

George Reid (None, Ochil)

The issue is vaguely reserved, but Mr McConnell may proceed.

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Sorry, Presiding Officer, what did you say?

George Reid (None, Ochil)

We may be straying into reserved matters.

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

In answer, I point out that Mr MacAskill, who is not here but who sits on Ms Sturgeon's front bench—or, more accurately, on Mr Salmond's front bench—is reported in today's newspapers as supporting not just means-tested pensions but means-tested access to the health service and to a number of other benefits and services, too. Given that Ms Sturgeon and I have agreed that we are in the process of raising our game and, I hope, of developing a national consensus in Scotland on such issues, I suggest that Ms Sturgeon should start by developing that consensus on her own front bench. Mr MacAskill—he is not here today, but he normally sits on her right-hand side—supports means testing not just for pensions but for the health service and for benefits. Will Miss Sturgeon back her shadow justice minister? Or is there a lack of consensus on the Scottish National Party front bench?

Nicola Sturgeon (Scottish National Party, Glasgow)

It is little wonder that people in Scotland are fed up with politics when politicians like the First Minister cannot give straight answers to questions. I have in my hands an analysis of my SNP leadership election manifesto, which the First Minister's office has produced. The analysis suggests pre-empting the SNP's plans to cut business tax, and the First Minister's office is so enamoured of our plan for the citizen's pension that it suggests that the Secretary of State for Scotland's right-hand man, Iain Gray, might want to cost it. In addition, the analysis suggests that a range of other SNP policy ideas might be worth considering.

Let me ask the First Minister this: is he willing to make good his pledge to be open and transparent, and to accept good ideas wherever they come from? Clearly, his office thinks that the SNP ideas are good ideas. Or is the First Minister intent, as he has been today, on putting petty, party-political point scoring over the national interest?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I am afraid that one of the aspects of leadership that Nicola Sturgeon will have to learn is consistency, which is absolutely vital across the SNP front bench as well as in what is said from week to week. We need to have consistency. We need to know what the SNP's policy is.

I absolutely support a non-means-tested basic pension for people in this country. I also support, as the SNP does not, targeted support for the poorest pensioners who need it. I will absolutely support the continuation of the targeted additional allowances and benefits that pensioners in Scotland now have, which have seen at least a third of pensioners being taken out of poverty in the past seven years and which will see many more taken out of poverty in the years to come.

I will continue to support the good work that has been done in this Parliament, with our powers, for pensioners in Scotland, such as the central heating programmes, the free personal care for the elderly and the free bus travel. We will say some more about that next week. Those are the policies for pensioners that this Parliament has supported, complementing the action of the United Kingdom Government, so that two Governments are working together consistently, building a national consensus to ensure that pensioners are well respected, given dignity and supported throughout Scotland and elsewhere.

David McLetchie (Conservative, Edinburgh Pentlands)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister and what issues he will discuss with him. (S2F-1074)

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I have no plans for a formal meeting with the Prime Minister.

David McLetchie (Conservative, Edinburgh Pentlands)

I thank the First Minister for that answer. I am sure that he would like to join me in extending a welcome to the Parliament to the campaigners from West Lothian who are trying to prevent the loss of vital services from St John's hospital. As I am sure the First Minister is aware, that is a matter for which the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Executive have responsibility, unlike the things that the Scottish National Party wants to talk about.

Will the First Minister confirm that St John's hospital was opened in 1990 under a Conservative Government, built up under the Conservatives and is now being run down by Labour? Is it not the case that Labour's cuts are real cuts, that they are really hurting in communities in Scotland and that the national health service in Scotland is certainly not safe in Malcolm Chisholm's hands? [Interruption.]

George Reid (None, Ochil)

Order. I simply say to the public gallery that we do not have applause from the gallery.

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I welcome the campaigners—who, as I have said before, are very welcome in this Parliament—not just those from West Lothian, but those from Argyll and Clyde, who are also here to make representations on behalf of their local health services and to relay their concerns to us.

I suspect that there is nobody in this Parliament who is more aware than I am of the importance of the accident and emergency department in St John's hospital. Members will recall, just 15 or 16 months ago, me having perhaps an over-display of emotion in the chamber when I described how the fantastic staff in that hospital saved my nephew's life. Therefore, I take the situation in St John's hospital in West Lothian very seriously indeed.

It is entirely appropriate that Lothian NHS Board consult at this moment on the best provision of acute services throughout the Lothians. I want our Minister for Health and Community Care to ensure—and he will—that the recommendations that we receive from Lothian NHS Board undergo the most robust scrutiny possible and that the needs and concerns not only of West Lothian, but of the populations of Edinburgh, Midlothian and East Lothian, are taken on board when a final decision is made.

The decisions are not easy, but there cannot be a policy of no change. There must be improvements and progress in our health service, but those decisions must be taken seriously and patient care must be at the centre of the rationale that we use. Increasingly, we need to see beyond the boundaries of the individual health boards; that is as true in the Lothians as it must be in the west of Scotland. I am increasingly coming to the view that there are far too many health boards in Scotland, and that, in the east, west and north of Scotland, co-ordination of provision is a problem partly because of the fact that the artificial health board boundaries cause difficulties between health board areas.

I am sorry that that was a long answer, Presiding Officer, but the situation is complex and needs rational thought. I hope that, in the decisions that we make on the Lothians, we take on board the wider issues in the Borders, Fife, and perhaps even in central Scotland and Lanarkshire, just as we must take on board the wider concern throughout the west of Scotland in any decisions that are made in Argyll and Clyde.

David McLetchie (Conservative, Edinburgh Pentlands)

I am sure that that answer will have given some hope or comfort to people from West Lothian, but, as the First Minister is aware, the situation in St John's hospital is far from an isolated case. What about Caithness general hospital, which was built by the Conservatives and cut by Labour? What about Ayr hospital, which was built by the Conservatives and cut by Labour? What about Queen Margaret hospital in Dunfermline, which was built by the Conservatives and cut by Labour?

Why is that happening? I put it to the First Minister that it is happening because of Labour's centralisation of our health service. His comment about cutting the number of health boards goes in precisely the wrong direction. Will the First Minister confirm that it was the merger of NHS trusts in 1999, which was supported at Westminster by Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP, and the complete abolition of those trusts in this Parliament, which was supported by Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP and opposed by only the Scottish Conservatives, that led to a loss of local control and to the centralisation of services that we are now seeing throughout Scotland?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I try to be rational about such matters. I understand the concerns that exist at a local level and do not want to minimise those concerns. Where it is appropriate for the Minister for Health and Community Care to make decisions, he will take on board local concerns and ensure that the analysis of, and recommendations in, decisions that are proposed to him are robust.

However, it is simply wrong to describe the situation as Mr McLetchie does. For example, there is an issue in Vale of Leven hospital, but there is also a brand new dialysis unit that was opened in May, which is an indication of our commitment to the future of health services in that area. There are issues in various centres throughout Scotland in which the technical specialisation of services might be appropriate to secure the highest possible quality of care for individual patients, but in each case, I want further services to be decentralised to the local community. That is precisely why we have had 67 new or modernised hospitals since the Parliament was first established in 1999 and 59 more will be completed between now and 2007. It is why we have modernised 104 local health centres since 1999 and a further 54 will be modernised between now and 2006. We are opening and growing health centres and local health facilities throughout Scotland, because the nature of care is changing.

One thing has really changed since 1999: the balance between the staff and the senior management. I will give Mr McLetchie an acute example of that—I was going to use the example later in answer to Mr Morgan's question, but I hope that he will not mind if I use it now. The number of senior managers in the health service, which rocketed under the Tories with all their health service bureaucracy during their 18 years in power, has reduced by 16 per cent since 1999. The number of ambulance service staff has increased by 16 per cent. That is the sort of change that the people of Scotland want and it is the sort of change that we will continue.

Bristow Muldoon (Labour, Livingston)

I was encouraged by the remarks that the First Minister made in his initial response to Mr McLetchie, when he said that the views of people in West Lothian—indeed, in the whole of the Lothians—will be taken into account fully in the changes that are proposed by NHS Lothian.

To date, NHS Lothian, by saying that the problem is due to training inadequacies in St John's hospital, has been trying to hide behind the views of the postgraduate dean. However, the postgraduate dean advised me and my colleague Robin Cook that he would have been perfectly satisfied for St John's to be one of two emergency surgical sites in the Lothians. In the light of that advice, will the First Minister ask Malcolm Chisholm to require NHS Lothian properly to consult on the issue and not to refuse to consult, as it is currently doing?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I will not comment on conversations that I was not party to, but it is important that politicians do not interfere in clinical decisions. When those decisions are made on clinical grounds, it is important that politicians do not try to second-guess those who have that responsibility. Those who have that responsibility also have a responsibility to take their decisions in a serious manner that has an overview of the whole area concerned. Malcolm Chisholm—and the chair of the health board, as far as I am aware—is checking that part of the process to ensure that that decision was made on proper grounds and can be properly justified.

It is important that we have a proper debate in the Lothians about the future of acute services. Even under the proposal for St John's hospital, which I understand, in the case of the local members and the local community, might be controversial, there would still be a full, 24/7 accident and emergency department and observation ward in St John's; there would still be full acute medical admissions, including a coronary care unit; and there would still be a series of other services. We need to have an open and transparent discussion about that, to determine the best health care for the 21st century and put patients at the centre of that, and we all need to be willing, as Ms Sturgeon correctly said, to listen to the new ideas that might have to be adopted.

Robin Harper (Green, Lothians)

To ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Secretary of State for Scotland and what issues he intends to discuss. (S2F-1062)

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I have no plans for a formal meeting with the Secretary of State.

Robin Harper (Green, Lothians)

When the First Minister next meets the Secretary of State, I have no doubt that they will discuss the G8 summit that is taking place next year in Scotland. Prime Minister Blair has said that climate change should be an urgent priority. Does the First Minister agree?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Yes, I certainly do.

Robin Harper (Green, Lothians)

Why, then, do the latest annual Scottish environment statistics, published this week, show that Scotland's greenhouse gas pollution is increasing? Why is road traffic up a further 1 per cent? Why does the First Minister continue to press ahead with the building of the M74 extension, which will only increase traffic levels and increase climate-wrecking pollution? Does the First Minister agree that he needs to raise the game on climate change, not raise pollution; to give vision and leadership at G8 rather than green spin; and to set a real example, instead of the almost comical and frankly embarrassing gloss that is presently proposed for the G8 summit?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Although the main content of the G8 summit will be based around the work of the commission for Africa and the need to deal with global aid and development, part of that is to ensure that that development is sustainable. We cannot have sustainable development if we continue to pollute our atmosphere to the levels that we currently do and if we continue to fail, as many countries do, including the United States of America in particular, to take appropriate action to tackle that pollution. I am certain that not just I, but the British Government, in the run-up to the G8 summit, will raise those matters publicly, and with the American Government in particular. We need to see change throughout the world if we are going to tackle the deterioration of our climate and the threat to our world. Here in Scotland, we need to play our part in that and to make our contribution. That is precisely why the Executive, in the past five years, has made a significant shift in transport investment from private transport to public transport; that shift will be confirmed in the budget that will be announced by Mr Kerr next Wednesday.

Michael McMahon (Labour, Hamilton North and Bellshill)

To ask the First Minister what action the Scottish Executive is taking to address recent reports on standards in care homes. (S2F-1069)

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

The establishment of the care commission with national care standards and improved care for the elderly have been among the achievements of devolution for Scotland. We expect care providers to meet the standards that have been set and ministers will continue to act to ensure that they deliver on that.

Michael McMahon (Labour, Hamilton North and Bellshill)

I welcome the First Minister's answer. I am sure that he is aware that residents returned to the Rosepark nursing home in Fallside in my constituency this month. Will he join me in welcoming that development and recall that commitments were made to ensuring confidence in the residential care sector following the tragedy in January? Will he therefore ensure that the recent reports into standards in care homes will not be viewed as a cup half full and that the failings that have been found in half Scotland's care homes—some of which have been exemplified in media campaigns such as that in the Daily Record —will be considered to be an intolerable situation that he will recommit to addressing?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

We will certainly take further action on that. Ministers have worked before and since the publication of those reports to take further action. We will act to close the loophole that means that the care commission is not allowed to inspect and approve agencies that employ staff who might be used in care homes. Michael McMahon is right to say that one of our national newspapers highlighted that matter, which has received attention.

We will also take other action. Until recently, the care commission charged for copies of its national care standards. The cost was one excuse that care home owners gave for not having a copy of those standards. We will remove that excuse by sending them copies free. We also want to ensure that clients are in control of the process. We are discussing with social work directors how we can ensure that clients have, at the time of assessment, information on the care standards that they can expect, so that they can complain and report to the care commission if care homes let them down.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, South of Scotland)

I am sure that the First Minister agrees that key to the quality of care in our care homes is the quality of staff, and that Disclosure Scotland's role is therefore central. I refer him to the written answer that was given to my colleague Richard Lochhead in August, which revealed the 100 per cent failure to meet the target that 90 per cent of basic applications through Disclosure Scotland should be processed within six calendar weeks. Will the First Minister comment on that failure and on the fact that care homes are now employing some staff without undergoing those procedures?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I share Christine Grahame's concern about Disclosure Scotland with regard to the position that prevailed at the beginning of the summer. That is why ministers have received, every week of the past few months, a written report from Disclosure Scotland on the progress that it has made towards not only meeting a target, but reducing the number of outstanding applications. I think that something like 20,000 applications were outstanding at the beginning of the summer and that that figure is down to about 4,000, but I am happy to write to Christine Grahame with the details. The significant improvement that was made in July, August and September is only the first step towards ensuring that Disclosure Scotland can turn round those applications as speedily as possible.

David Davidson (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Michael McMahon asked what action the First Minister will take on the care home sector. When will the First Minister meet care home providers to discuss with them the delay in implementing their current contract, which means that many of them are trying to offer full-scale care at less than its cost? That is the basis of many of the problems. Will he agree today to meet them?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Ministers are in regular contact with all those who have an interest in the sector. We discuss not only finance matters, but the standards that are employed in care homes. I hope that David Davidson's comments show a slight change in his approach and that he will not only back private care home providers, but insist on the same standards on which we insist.

Mike Rumbles (Liberal Democrat, West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)

Does the First Minister agree that to maintain high standards of care, privately run homes and council-run homes should have a level playing field on funding?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

The allocation of finance sometimes reflects the quality of care in those homes, which is the point that is consistently made. Working in both directions would be possible and it would be wrong of local authorities to reduce their quality of care. There is a need to continue to revise the budget—we will say more about that in our spending review statement next week—and to ensure that the proper resources are allocated. There is also a need for proper decision making, at local authority level, on the level of service that is provided locally and the quality and quantity of places that are available. It is also important that we continue to drive up standards in the private care home sector and the voluntary care home sector and that we finance that accordingly.

John Swinburne (SSCUP, Central Scotland)

Does the First Minister agree that the treatment of elderly residents on the sudden closure of care homes—most recently in Bearsden, Fort William and Edinburgh, which involved inadequate notice being given and very little or no suitable alternative accommodation being provided—is disgraceful and contravenes the national care standards? What action will the Executive take to resolve the crisis in the care home sector?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Again, we must get the balance right between local and national responsibilities. We want to set national standards and continue to pursue them, but we also want to ensure that each local authority in Scotland meets its responsibilities. In a free society, it is not possible to regulate such matters entirely, but we must do all that we can to ensure that private or voluntary providers of care home places meet their responsibilities and treat their residents with the dignity that they deserve. People who close care homes without proper notice being given and who treat elderly citizens with the disdain that has been seen, or which has at least been perceived, in recent incidents need to reconsider the way in which they practise their business. We certainly want to do all that we can to urge those people to improve their practices and, where possible through the national standards, to get commitments in advance that such things will not happen.

Alasdair Morgan (Scottish National Party, South of Scotland)

To ask the First Minister whether adequate resources are available to the Scottish Ambulance Service, given consequential effects of changes elsewhere in the NHS. (S2F-1079)

Given what the First Minister said earlier, I assume that he has a second answer up his sleeve.

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Earlier, I made a point about the number of staff in the ambulance service in Scotland increasing by 16 per cent in the five years of devolution. We have also increased funding to the Scottish Ambulance Service by 13 per cent, to £128 million a year. Last year, the service was able to train 168 paramedics to the new standard, and 66 technicians. Those are considerable improvements, which I am sure that we will build on in the years to come.

Alasdair Morgan (Scottish National Party, South of Scotland)

Of course, it is not only the absolute level of resources that is important—the match of those resources against demand is important, too. In Dumfries and Galloway, there have been two serious cases in the past couple of weeks that have raised grave concerns about ambulance cover. In one case, a patient had to wait three hours in the general practitioner's surgery after the GP had phoned for an emergency ambulance. The patient was then driven 50 miles by her husband to hospital, where she underwent a four-hour emergency operation. I do not expect the First Minister to comment on an individual case, but will he admit that the ambulance service is under severe pressure at the moment? Will he further concede that changes to out-of-hours services and hospital closures in some areas could well stretch the service to breaking point? Will he personally ensure that the Minister for Health and Community Care gets a grip of the problem?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

I am always wary of any attempt to exploit serious individual cases for political gain and hope that that is not the case in this instance. The two cases to which Mr Morgan refers were potentially serious and must be properly investigated by those who are responsible. I understand that both cases are being investigated and I will ensure that the Minister for Health and Community Care receives a report on both and writes to Mr Morgan with the analysis that is provided.

On the general issue, it is undeniable that the number of staff in the ambulance service has increased significantly and that the equipment that they use and the service that they can provide have improved dramatically in the five years of devolution. Critically, the Scottish Ambulance Service is now centrally involved at a local level in discussing with GPs and others involved the provision of out-of-hours services in a way that did not apply in the past, when GP surgeries had that responsibility and were obliged voluntarily to provide those services. A proper service can now be provided throughout Scotland, with the right arrangements in place and with GPs, the Ambulance Service and others working together. That should be an improvement in the service, not a deterioration, and we will monitor the situation in each part of Scotland as it develops.

Mike Pringle (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh South)

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Executive is prepared for the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 fully coming into force. (S2F-1064)

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Yes, we are. Executive departments and agencies are preparing for the 1995 act coming fully into force on 1 October. We take our responsibilities under the act, as an employer and as a service provider, very seriously. We expect all employers and service providers in Scotland to do the same.

Mike Pringle (Liberal Democrat, Edinburgh South)

The Disability Discrimination Act 1995, which comes into force next week, is an important piece of legislation for social inclusion. Will the First Minister ensure that all service providers are aware of their responsibility to comply with the 1995 act and that the legislation is promoted as a positive opportunity, rather than as an obligation?

Jack McConnell (Labour, Motherwell and Wishaw)

Mike Pringle's last point is a strong and positive one. Throughout Scotland, there are businesses and organisations in the public sector and elsewhere that are concerned about the 1995 act and see it as a threat to their position. If there is any truth in the statistics showing that one in five Scots has some form of disability or long-term illness, every business and organisation in Scotland should see the act as a positive opportunity to improve the work of their business and to improve their relationship with customers and potential customers. We will certainly ensure that people are aware of the act and that they are being encouraged to follow it properly. We will give every assistance that we can to the United Kingdom Government to ensure that the act is being implemented properly.

Margo MacDonald (Independent, Lothians)

On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My point of order, which concerns rule 13.7 of our standing orders, refers to the length of time that has been taken for this question session. Do you consider it in order that 60 per cent of the time that was available today was given over to the party leaders? That meant that you had to run over time to ensure that the last question—that of Mr Pringle—was taken. Last week, Mr Mundell lost his question. I ask you for a statement on whether we might better organise how questions are put to the First Minister.

George Reid (None, Ochil)

I am always hesitant about giving homilies, particularly to party leaders, but I have some sympathy with what you say, Ms MacDonald. You are quite right, in that rule 13.7.8 says that supplementary questions should be kept brief. It is silent on the subject of answers. As the First Minister has made clear, there are occasions—as in the case of national health service hospitals—on which a long answer is required in the public interest. In general, however, if the party leaders' questions and the answers to them are kept short, there will be more time for more questions and answers. That will free up time for that very important constituency in this Parliament—back benchers. It is their chance to question the First Minister.

Question Time — SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE — Environment and Rural Development

Ted Brocklebank (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To ask the Scottish Executive what the prospects are of an improved agreement being negotiated for next year from that secured at last year's European Union fishing negotiations, particularly in respect of the number of days at sea. (S2O-3312)

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I regret to say that it is not possible at this stage to speculate on the prospects for the negotiations in advance of the official advice from the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, which is expected by the end of October.

Ted Brocklebank (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

I thank the minister for his answer. Can he tell us whether the two extra days at sea, which he announced as something of a triumph back in April, will be granted retrospectively given that the Council of Ministers, which must ratify those additional days, will not meet until mid-October? Can he offer any prospect of those days being released now to give hard-pressed Scottish fishermen a chance to use them before the year is out?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

As I understand it, there is every prospect that the extra days may not necessarily have to go to an agriculture and fisheries council. I am advised that it is possible, given the agreement that has been reached, that the matter could be treated as an A-point at any fisheries council meeting. I very much hope that that is the case.

I certainly did not announce the two extra days with any great triumph. We expressed great frustration that a matter that should certainly have been dealt with months ago was taking this length of time. As to whether the days will apply retrospectively, I would not wish to say that that will be the case. It was my understanding that the regulation as tabled would be retrospective. However, I am bound to say that, as always in such matters, I would wish to see the text that is published by the European Commission before confirming that position.

George Lyon (Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute)

The minister will be aware that there is a strong and irrefutable case for an increase now in the west coast prawn fishing quota. Can he guarantee that that will be one of the priorities that he will pursue in the December talks at the fisheries council?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I certainly agree with the member that the case for increased total allowable catches in certain areas, including the west coast nephrops area, is very strong. We have put that matter firmly to the Commission. It is our position, as always, that when firm scientific advice indicates that the evidence is such that we can argue for an increased quota, we will certainly so argue.

John Farquhar Munro (Liberal Democrat, Ross, Skye and Inverness West)

To ask the Scottish Executive what training and advice it will give farmers and crofters ahead of the introduction of the single farm payment scheme so that they are fully informed of cross-compliance requirements. (S2O-3303)

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

The Executive will issue an advisory information leaflet on cross-compliance in mid-October to all farmers and crofters. That will be followed up by a series of regional meetings later in the year, which will be similar to the meetings that were held during the consultation period. The Executive, in consultation with industry stakeholders, will keep the need for further advice and training under review.

John Farquhar Munro (Liberal Democrat, Ross, Skye and Inverness West)

I thank the minister for that helpful response. I am sure that the minister will know of the extreme concern that the Environment and Rural Development Committee expressed regarding the lack of available advice on cross-compliance measures. Crofters and farmers have raised fears with me that they will not know what is expected until the first farm inspections have been carried out. Does the minister agree that, until professional advice is given regarding the practicalities of how to comply with the new single farm payment, crofters and farmers should not have to incur penalties for non-compliance?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I wholly agree with the thrust of what the member said. It is important that all crofters and farmers understand the regulations; indeed, that is why we have prepared the leaflet and are issuing it to them. I stress that the regional meetings to which I referred are being arranged in conjunction with NFU Scotland and the Scottish Crofting Foundation. I hope very much that we will not get to a position where crofters and farmers have to await the first inspection before they are fully apprised of the requirements under cross-compliance.

Alex Johnstone (Conservative, North East Scotland)

Does the minister acknowledge that in this period of radical change for the farming and crofting industry it is inevitable that there will be an on-going requirement for advice and training to be made available? Does he acknowledge that there is already a strong body capable of providing that training in both the machinery rings of Scotland and the private sector?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I certainly acknowledge Alex Johnstone's point that there are clearly a large number of changes. However, returning briefly to the issue raised by John Farquhar Munro, I am bound to say that although the assembly and detail of some of those regulations have changed, we should not give the impression that a raft of new regulations has been introduced; rather, there are one or two additions that are important in relation to the new single-farm payment. A substantial body of the regulations are existing regulations. I take the point about the continuing need to keep crofters and farmers fully apprised of the details of the big changes that are taking place and I am well aware of the availability of external bodies to provide advice.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, South of Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures are being taken to accelerate sewerage and water provision in the Scottish Borders in order that housing can be built. (S2O-3279)

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

As the member will be aware, a total of £1.8 billion is being invested in upgrading our water and waste water system. That represents a higher level of investment per household than that under way in England and Wales. In the current investment programme, some £200 million will provide positive benefits towards current constraints and a further £41 million is being allocated to deal with development constraints and first-time connection issues in rural areas.

Where development constraints exist, which I readily acknowledge, I expect Scottish Water, to which I have spoken, to work with all parties—local authorities, Communities Scotland and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and its regulators—to identify practical solutions that will allow developments to proceed where possible.

Looking to the future, I recently commissioned a thorough and comprehensive assessment of the investment requirements for the industry. That work has informed my recent consultation, "Investing in Water Services 2006-2014" and I hope that all members and interested parties will participate fully in the consultation process.

Christine Grahame (Scottish National Party, South of Scotland)

I thank the minister for that helpful answer. As he is aware, in Peebles, Lauder and elsewhere in the Borders, there has been a 40 per cent increase in applications for social housing and yet we cannot build because of water and sewerage problems. I refer the minister to his consultation paper where local authorities predicted that, up to 2014, they could accommodate 230,000 houses, but half of them cannot be built because of sewerage and water problems. I appreciate that the minister is making representations to Scottish Water, but the matter is of such urgency that Scottish Water needs strong political direction to—if I may use a dreadful pun—undo the blockage.

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

We will forgive that pun on this occasion. I hope that Christine Grahame understands that there are two real problems here. Although local authorities have identified problems going forward to 2014, one of the difficulties is that when we were drawing up the major investment programme, sadly almost none of those consulted in 1999-2000 brought the issue of that kind of development constraint to the fore. Therefore a capital programme was designed principally to meet regulatory and statutory requirements. The programme is under way; we cannot suddenly turn capital programmes on or off. As the minister, I cannot suddenly decide that I am going to intervene and suggest that Scottish Water does not meet those regulatory requirements.

That said, I am well aware of the difficulties faced by a large number of communities throughout Scotland. I see John Swinney, poised like a coiled spring behind Christine Grahame, ready to leap to his feet. I hope that the member will understand that although I am putting pressure on Scottish Water, it is extraordinarily difficult to unwind fixed capital programmes; they are not easy to redirect. However, we are asking Scottish Water to take extremely seriously those development constraints where they occur throughout Scotland. I certainly recognise that it might not be possible to deal with the matter as quickly as one might wish.

It is important that everyone engages fully with the current consultation. I do not want the consequence of the current consultation to be a repetition of what is happening now, which is a consequence of the failures of the last consultation.

Jeremy Purvis (Liberal Democrat, Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale)

The minister knows that I have been working closely with the registered social landlords in the Borders, who have informed me that although there is no development constraint in Peebles, the work there requires network modelling, which is dependent on the proposals from the RSL in Peebles. However, there are certainly issues with Walkerburn, Fountainhall, Earlston and Ashkirk in my constituency, and the RSLs are looking for a confirmed and logical development programme. As the minister will be making the funding available, will he, with an eye to what he has just said about the next development round, be open to applications from providers other than Scottish Water Solutions Ltd—for example private companies or local authority direct labour organisations—to do the work under Scottish Water's direction?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

That will be an operational matter for Scottish Water, but let me be clear that the principal reason why Scottish Water entered into its arrangements with Scottish Water Solutions Ltd was that it discovered that it was seriously short of the expertise required to manage a programme of £1.8 billion and undertake a major building programme—I think that members might feel some sympathy with that predicament. Therefore, Scottish Water brought in a degree of expertise, but the fact that it is operating in conjunction with Scottish Water Solutions does not, and was never intended to, preclude the award of contracts to bodies other than Scottish Water Solutions, and Scottish Water made that clear. Other outside bodies, such as those Mr Purvis referred to, will certainly be able to participate in that process.

Sylvia Jackson (Labour, Stirling)

In my constituency, there is a significant development of affordable housing in Buchlyvie, but it appears that, rather late in the day, Scottish Water is asking for an additional £100,000 for extra work that is needed to the water and sewerage infrastructure. I am having great difficulty getting Scottish Water to come back to me and to move the situation forward. At the same time, Rural Stirling Housing Association Ltd will, I believe, lose Communities Scotland money. Will the minister help me to make progress?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I am disappointed that Dr Jackson has not had a timeous response from Scottish Water and will be glad to take that up. That is not acceptable. Anybody who deals with the public should respond timeously.

George Lyon (Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to monitor the risk of, and prevent further, landslides. (S2O-3344)

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I confirm that, following the recent landslides on the A85 and A9, the Minister for Transport acted swiftly to commission a study to identify areas of greatest potential risk on the trunk road network and to recommend mitigation measures.

George Lyon (Liberal Democrat, Argyll and Bute)

The minister will be aware that, in my constituency, the A83 was closed for three days because of landslides at the Rest and be Thankful and at Cairndow, which caused significant damage to the rural economy of Argyll and Bute. Will he persuade the Minister for Transport to take action in regard to the landslides on the A83 as well as those on the A85 and the A9?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I confirm that the studies are intended to be comprehensive and that we are not focusing solely on the two areas where the particular problems arose in the recent heavy flooding, although we must examine them. The two studies will report back to the Minister for Transport and will give us a much better feel for the potential danger and the actions that need to be taken, not only on the A85 and A9, but on the road to which George Lyon refers.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, North Tayside)

I welcome the initiative that the Minister for Transport has taken after his visit to my constituency, where there was a significant landslide on the A9. That was the second time in two years in which there was a major disruption to the transport routes to the north as a result of landslides following significant weather. Will the minister consider ensuring that the study that is being undertaken examines issues such as change of land use and other planning factors, particularly within agriculture and forestry, that might have an impact on the substantial land areas that adjoin some of the major trunk routes in Scotland to guarantee that thought and planning goes into any change of use that might have an impact on the stability of such land?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I assure the member that the current study—the first of the two studies—will conduct a detailed review of the construct and of adjacent land, to consider whether, as he suggests, ramifications that arise from changes in land use might have affected the run-off and given rise to the conditions.

Murdo Fraser (Conservative, Mid Scotland and Fife)

To be fair to the Executive, following the recent disruption to the A85 and the A9, BEAR Scotland moved swiftly to repair the damage. However, the same cannot be said for local roads in the same area, which are local authorities' responsibility. Some of those roads remain unrepaired. Perth and Kinross Council has told me that even with the Bellwin formula, it will still incur a bill of £250,000 to repair those roads. Will the Executive consider providing additional assistance to local authorities to fill that gap and to ensure that those roads are repaired more rapidly?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

The Bellwin scheme deals with exceptional circumstances that arise from a particular problem. I am sure that my friend the Minister for Finance and Public Services will confirm that each year's grant-aided expenditure settlement to a local authority provides for local road building and maintenance. It is for local authorities to decide their priorities within that allocation of expenditure.

Robert Brown (Liberal Democrat, Glasgow)

To ask the Scottish Executive what steps it is taking to improve the environment in urban areas. (S2O-3361)

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

We are committed to improving the environment in urban areas. A wide range of measures is in place to achieve our goal of building stronger communities. For example, we are working with local authorities and the Greenspace trusts to improve living spaces and provide access to recreation. In planning, the partnership agreement commits us to setting minimum standards for open space in new developments.

A range of initiatives that is funded by our new £104 million community regeneration fund will contribute to improving the environment in the most deprived 15 per cent of areas as identified in the Scottish index of deprivation.

We are working to improve the quality of urban rivers and are providing £230 million to local authorities in the current settlement through the strategic waste fund. We have set air quality objectives for local authorities in the air quality strategy.

The Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004 provides additional powers to tackle antisocial environmental behaviour, such as writing graffiti and littering. It also supports local authorities in dealing with noise nuisance.

Robert Brown (Liberal Democrat, Glasgow)

In Glasgow, a key aspect of the environment—which the minister touched on—is the quality of the air that we breathe. Is he aware that some areas of Glasgow, such as the city centre and Byres Road areas, have concentrations of nitrogen dioxide that are well above the standards that are set out in the Executive's air quality strategy? In the Byres Road area, the figure has doubled over three years. That is linked to a worsening of respiratory conditions such as asthma and bronchitis. Does he know that Glasgow's air quality plan is predicted to reduce NO 2 emissions by 20 per cent at best, as opposed to the 70 per cent that is required to meet the standards? How does the Scottish Executive intend to ensure that the air quality standards are met?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I am aware of some of the problems to which the member refers, which include nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide. We are supporting local authorities, and Glasgow City Council in particular, through direct funding to deal with emission levels, and giving support to those by requiring the authorities to meet the minimum standards that are required by the MOT.

The Executive also provides grant support through the CleanUp and PowerShift initiatives towards the cost of cleaner technologies on a variety of emissions and types of re-engineering. Those grant schemes are available to local authorities.

I share Robert Brown's concern about the emissions levels in those parts of Glasgow. The programmes on which we are embarking are designed to improve levels, but I can but concede that more needs to be done. We will work in co-operation with all local authorities to improve the position.

Patrick Harvie (Green, Glasgow)

The minister will be aware that Glasgow city centre is Scotland's biggest air quality management area because the source of pollution is road traffic. Given the Executive's projections that road traffic will increase dramatically in Glasgow, and its policy to accommodate that increase rather than reverse it, will the minister explain how air quality management areas will work to reduce air pollution in Glasgow? Is it not the case that improvements in technology will be insufficient to compensate for the increase in road traffic, and that air quality will therefore continue to deteriorate?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

I do not accept the basic proposition that we are committed to accommodating and adopting the growth in transport; indeed, the policy is, in fact, to bring about a levelling off in the total increase in motor traffic.

As I said to Robert Brown, there are current schemes that try to deal with vehicle emissions. They might not be having sufficient effect, but we are working closely with Glasgow City Council. Therefore, I do not accept the member's proposition. It is clear that we have programmes in place and that they are intended to achieve the improvements to which he refers.

Sarah Boyack (Labour, Edinburgh Central)

Does the minister acknowledge the importance of tackling CO 2 emissions in urban environments? What work is his department doing to ensure that the next review of building regulations by the Minister for Communities and the Deputy Minister for Communities will fully address improving energy efficiency by requiring the use of renewables technologies in all new Scottish buildings?

Ross Finnie (Liberal Democrat, West of Scotland)

The member will be aware that the Executive has already taken action to improve building standards and we will continue to keep the matter under review. We have greatly improved the thermal quality of buildings through changes in those standards and that will achieve many of the improvements to which Sarah Boyack refers. Clearly, the minister will keep under review any improvements that can be achieved, although, as I said, we have already amended the building regulations in that regard.

Health and Community Care

Irene Oldfather (Labour, Cunninghame South)

To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made on research it has commissioned to investigate the impact of a ban on smoking in public places. (S2O-3300)

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

We have commissioned an international review of the health and economic impact of the regulation of smoking in public places, which is being carried out by the health economic research unit at the University of Aberdeen. The work is on schedule and will be published before the end of this year.

Irene Oldfather (Labour, Cunninghame South)

Will the minister give an assurance that any legislative action to ban smoking will be accompanied by a drive to provide support and assistance—including nicotine-replacement therapy—to those who do not want only to go outside a pub, but want to take the opportunity to give up smoking altogether?

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

I give an absolute assurance that, as the First Minister and I have stated, we are determined to take action to reduce the impact that tobacco has on our society in Scotland. When we launched our tobacco action plan earlier this year, we also announced an increase to £7 million in the amount of money that will be available by 2005-06 for smoking cessation services.

Today at Murrayfield stadium, I launched new smoking cessation guidelines for the professionals who will deliver the services. The guidelines will not only allow better delivery of service, but will allow us to learn exactly what works in different communities in order to try to achieve maximum impact. We specifically held the launch at Murrayfield stadium because the Scottish Rugby Union has announced that the Bowl at Murrayfield will now be smoke free. It is great news that such an important organisation in Scotland is not only prepared to go with the flow of public opinion, but is prepared to listen to its customers, take their views into account and say that smoking in the Bowl is no longer acceptable.

Dennis Canavan (Independent, Falkirk West)

To ask the Scottish Executive what recent discussions it has had with NHS boards regarding reorganisation of services. (S2O-3268)

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

The Scottish Executive Health Department and I maintain regular contact with NHS boards on a wide range of issues, including the reorganisation of services. For example, officials have had recent meetings with Argyll and Clyde NHS Board and Greater Glasgow NHS Board in relation to cross-boundary planning of services, and I met NHS Lothian last week in relation to service changes in West Lothian.

Dennis Canavan (Independent, Falkirk West)

Is the minister aware of the concern that existed in Forth valley for many years that there was too much dithering rather than decision making about the reorganisation of services? However, the current health board, after conducting a wide-ranging consultation process, has forwarded proposals to the Scottish Executive, including a proposal for the construction of a new state-of-the-art hospital at Larbert. Will the minister give us an absolute assurance that his statement to the Health Committee earlier this week will not lead to any postponement of the target date of 2009 for the opening of that new hospital, which the people of the Forth valley need at the earliest opportunity?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I give Dennis Canavan that guarantee. It illustrates the general point that I made to the Health Committee that we want developments to progress as quickly as possible. Nothing that I have said will in any way delay the important decisions that have been made, whether those concern a new hospital in Forth valley or the Stobhill and Victoria hospitals in Glasgow. I commend the Forth Valley NHS Board for the way in which it has planned the changes and for the way in which it has consulted the population.

Jackie Baillie (Labour, Dumbarton)

I thank the minister for his comments on NHS Argyll and Clyde. I invite him to go one step further: will he insist that NHS Argyll and Clyde revise its clinical strategy to ensure that cross-boundary working—not just with Greater Glasgow NHS Board but with Ayrshire and Arran NHS Board—becomes a reality?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

As I indicated in my substantive answer, we have been in discussions not just with NHS Argyll and Clyde, but with NHS Greater Glasgow in order that the boards take more account of that issue. We should acknowledge that they have taken some account of that, but we realise that more needs to be done. We have been discussing the matter with the boards. It is being explored and it will continue to be explored over the next few weeks.

Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat, Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

In relation to the possible downgrading of the consultant-led maternity service in Wick, to which I am bitterly opposed, the minister confirmed earlier this week that he would more or less shelve any proposals for the time being, unless the issue of clinical safety came up. Does the minister agree that medic-orientated clinical safety is not good enough, and that we have to consider safety in its widest sense, which includes the danger of pregnant mums getting caught in a snowdrift in Caithness, which could possibly lead to loss of life?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

As I said to Jamie Stone at this week's meeting of the Health Committee, a broad view has to be taken in relation to clinical safety. We have to have an exemption over the winter. We cannot stop changes that are genuinely about clinical safety. However, as I said at the committee, we will consider the matter very carefully, and we will not just accept the word of health boards.

David Davidson (Conservative, North East Scotland)

What discussions has the minister held recently with health boards with regard to the reorganisation of out-of-hours medical services?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I have discussed out-of-hours services on several occasions in the course of discussions with health boards. Formally, out-of-hours services do not come into the centre for my approval, but that does not mean that I do not take a great interest in what is happening in various parts of Scotland in that regard. A big national effort is being made around out-of-hours changes, and there is major national support for that. All the plans are considered in a national context, and we now have national standards, which were developed by NHS Quality Improvement Scotland, and which all boards in Scotland must meet.

John Swinney (Scottish National Party, North Tayside)

Does the Minister for Health and Community Care believe that, as a consequence of the reorganisation of health services, which has been going on in Tayside for a number of years, and which is now happening in the rest of the country, the Scottish Ambulance Service has sufficient resources to cope with the increased number of patient journeys that are taking place? What mechanisms does the minister have in place to guarantee that he can monitor the increase in demand on the Ambulance Service and the consequent increase of resources that is required to ensure that the public are given the support that they require?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

As the First Minister said a couple of hours ago, major additional resources have been allocated to the Scottish Ambulance Service. As I indicated at a previous question time, I take a close interest in how that is working out on the ground. I wrote recently to the chair of the Scottish Ambulance Service in relation to single-crewed ambulances and the need to ensure that their use is diminished, and that they are used only in emergencies. I am keeping a careful eye on the operational aspects of the Ambulance Service as well as on its financial aspects.

Duncan McNeil (Labour, Greenock and Inverclyde)

I welcome the minister's emphasis on clinical safety. On the centralisation of consultant-led maternity services in the Argyll and Clyde NHS Board area, will the minister, in his discussions with the board, ask its members whether the number of women from Inverclyde giving birth to still-born babies is increasing or decreasing and whether the number of Inverclyde women giving birth by Caesarean section is increasing or decreasing?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I will write to the Health Committee about the effect of the changes, as I have already undertaken to do. In general terms, we have made it absolutely clear to health boards that they must monitor the effect of any changes. They will obviously wish to highlight improvements that have sprung from them, but they ought also to be aware of, and to point out, any problems that have been thrown up as a result.

Murray Tosh (Conservative, West of Scotland)

I call Paul Martin. This will have to be the last supplementary question.

Paul Martin (Labour, Glasgow Springburn)

Does the minister have any plans to reform how health boards consult local communities, and to give communities the opportunity to appeal to a court of law if they feel that a public consultation exercise has been merely cosmetic, as has been the case on a number of occasions throughout the Greater Glasgow Health Board area?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

Members will remember that we passed the National Health Service Reform (Scotland) Act 2004 before the summer recess. That act set up the Scottish Health Council, whose central role will be to examine how boards deal with public involvement, and it will be up to that body to tell me if a board has not consulted properly. That new body has been set up to do that, and other things relating to public involvement and patient-focused care. It will report to ministers if consultation has not been carried out properly, and ministers will then instruct boards to start again, if necessary, or to carry out further consultation.

Rosemary Byrne (SSP, South of Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Executive what measures it will take to increase the number of clinical psychologists working in child and adolescent mental health teams. (S2O-3346)

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

The Scottish Executive continues to build capacity within NHS Scotland across all staff groups, including clinical psychologists. A child and adolescent mental health work force group, chaired by Dr Graham Bryce, will report to us in 2005.

The number of whole-time-equivalent clinical psychologists working with children, young people and their families rose by eight in 2001-02—the most recent year for which figures are available—and that represents a 16 per cent increase. There is also an information and statistics division report, written in conjunction with NHS Education for Scotland, on the supply of the psychology work force, which is due to be published by the end of September.

Rosemary Byrne (SSP, South of Scotland)

I am sure that the minister is aware that there are only 57 whole-time-equivalent clinical psychologists working in child and adolescent mental health teams in Scotland. Will he assure me that, in considering current gaps and future need, he will recognise the additional support needs of young people with mental health problems in our schools, and that he will ensure that there are sufficient resources to meet the requirements of the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004?

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

As I said, we are determined to build capacity in the NHS across all groups, and that includes mental health services for young people. I have mentioned the reports that we are awaiting. We will be guided by those reports, which will help us to direct the significant amounts of additional resource that are being channelled towards the national health service and allow us to direct resources in those areas. Of course we are determined to build capacity and to address the gaps that undoubtedly exist, but I think that the Scottish Executive can demonstrate, by its past actions and by its future intentions, that it is serious about addressing those gaps.

Margaret Jamieson (Labour, Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

To ask the Scottish Executive what action it is taking to reduce the number of patients who do not attend their appointments in primary care. (S2O-3269)

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

All patients have a responsibility to ensure that they keep their appointments and should make every reasonable effort to inform their practice or clinic if they are not able to do so.

The Executive has taken action to improve access to national health service primary care services. Offering patients a choice in how they access services, together with action to reduce waiting times, will help to reduce the number of missed appointments.

Margaret Jamieson (Labour, Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

Is the minister aware that, in the 10 general practices in my constituency of Kilmarnock and Loudon 1,112 DNAs—did not attends—were recorded in June this year and that, in my general practitioner's practice, which has direct access, 200 DNAs were recorded for the same period? Will he undertake to investigate the reasons why patients do not attend and will he require health boards to demonstrate that in field 4 of map 2 of the performance assessment framework, rather than concentrate on out-patient attendances?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I am sure that Margaret Jamieson will agree that we need to concentrate both on out-patient appointment DNAs and on GP and nurse practice DNAs. I would certainly be keen to find out more about the reasons why patients do not attend, but I think that it should, in the interests of balance, be noted that the same United Kingdom survey from which Margaret Jamieson quoted—the "Developing Patient Partnerships" survey—actually showed a 46 per cent drop between last year and this year in the number of DNAs for appointments with GPs. Of course, that was only a survey, so we do not want to take too much comfort from it.

It is safe to say that the number of DNAs is dropping, but it must drop a lot more. The main reason why it has dropped is the significant advances that have been made on access to GPs, partly through the work of the primary care collaborative. That has meant that a large number of GP practices are using new methods to organise their appointments. We have a target of 48 hours to gain access to the appropriate member of a primary health care team, which is being met widely across Scotland.

Mark Ballard (Green, Lothians)

To ask the Scottish Executive how it will respond to NHS Greater Glasgow's request to fluoridate the drinking water supply. (S2O-3386)

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

Under current legislation, the decision to fluoridate public drinking water supplies in Scotland is a matter for Scottish Water, on the basis of an application from a national health service board. No such application has been made by NHS Greater Glasgow.

Mark Ballard (Green, Lothians)

In response to a written question from my colleague Eleanor Scott on the matter, Malcolm Chisholm said that there would be careful consideration of the views expressed during the consultation process on "Towards Better Oral Health in Children" and that there would be an announcement in response to that. When will the Executive make it clear whether it will support fluoridation? When will ministers acknowledge the huge opposition to mass involuntary medication? Such medication might be illegal, would meet huge public opposition and would ultimately be doomed to failure.

Murray Tosh (Conservative, West of Scotland)

Do not answer the question, Mr Ballard—just ask it.

Tom McCabe (Labour, Hamilton South)

The Executive is consulting the public on a number of strands of work relating both to children's oral health and to the provision of dentistry services in general. We intend to respond to those consultations in the near future. At that time, we will make our position perfectly clear.

The member raised the issue of the legality of fluoridation. I am sure that he was referring to the possible implications of such a measure in respect of the European convention on human rights. Those implications could be tested only against a specific legislative proposal or a proposition to fluoridate the water in a particular area of Scotland.

Shiona Baird (Green, North East Scotland)

To ask the Scottish Executive what its position is on legal advice on children's health recently obtained by the WWF that under international law a child has the right to clean and safe surroundings. (S2O-3387)

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

The conduct of negotiations in relation to international obligations is a matter for Westminster under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998. The Scottish Executive is fully involved in the development of the UK position in devolved areas.

Shiona Baird (Green, North East Scotland)

Given the legal opinion to which I have referred and a report published in June by the World Health Organisation that highlighted the fact that children's health is often not considered in policy making and legislation, will the minister take responsibility for our children's health and tell us what action he will take to ensure that the UK Government takes the strongest possible position under the European Union's registration, evaluation and authorisation of chemicals legislation in order to phase out hazardous man-made chemicals that violate a child's right to health?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I make it absolutely clear that we strongly support children's entitlement to clean and safe surroundings. My answer to Shiona Baird's first question concerned the question of whether that is a right in international law, which is a matter for the Westminster Government. At the end of the day, the fundamental issue is not whether it is a right, but whether we will act on the basis that it is an entitlement. That is precisely what we will do.

We are actively engaged at UK level in taking forward the key international initiatives that relate to environment and health, which are the World Health Organisation's children's environmental health plan for Europe and the European environment and health strategy, which also has a child focus. The strategy is to be implemented in successive cycles. The first cycle aims to establish good understanding of the link between environmental factors and a range of illnesses, such as childhood respiratory diseases, asthma, childhood cancer and neuro-developmental disorders.

Phil Gallie (Conservative, South of Scotland)

Does the minister envisage that his enthusiasm for ensuring that children are brought up in safe surroundings will lead to many more children being taken into care? If so, what provision will he make for that?

Malcolm Chisholm (Labour, Edinburgh North and Leith)

I am not sure whether I totally follow Phil Gallie's thinking on that. Obviously, a safe environment in the wider sense includes the people who surround the child. There are many issues there. I can give the undertaking to Parliament that the Executive has certainly been taking increased and more vigorous action on child protection across its work and has been insisting that local agencies also work far more effectively together.

General

Eleanor Scott (Green, Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Executive what reliance the affordable housing review is placing on assessments of affordable housing need carried out by local authorities in their local housing strategies. (S2O-3380)

Margaret Curran (Labour, Glasgow Baillieston)

The review has drawn on a number of sources, including the assessment of local authority housing strategies by Communities Scotland.

Eleanor Scott (Green, Highlands and Islands)

Can the minister say when the information will be available in local housing strategies? Does she accept that not having such information could jeopardise decisions about the required level of investment in housing? Will she outline how the Executive will use the assessment of affordable housing need in the strategies to inform its affordable housing review?