Senedd Cymru (Welsh Parliament), 11 December 2018

310 contributions from 42 members. The official report.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

I call Members to order.

1. Questions to the First Minister

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The first item on our agenda for this afternoon is questions to the First Minister. And the first question is from Dawn Bowden.

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

1. Will the First Minister outline how the economic priorities set out in the programme for government are delivering for people in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? OAQ53102

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

We're delivering a range of actions, including the establishment of the Valleys taskforce, to support a stronger, fairer economy, and to allow businesses to develop, to grow and to prosper not only in Merthyr and Rhymney, of course, but across the whole of Wales.

Dawn Bowden (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I know that, across the many elements of the programme for government, you can be proud to have led a Government that's delivering improvements in my constituency. You'll recall that we've opened new schools and refurbished schools, that we've welcomed new investments, including General Dynamics in Pentrebach, Sharp Clinical in Rhymney, and, of course, the ongoing dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road. We're investing over £130 million renewing Prince Charles Hospital, with another £200 million to follow, and we see the regeneration work that's transformed our town centre, and the support for major local tourism attractions, like BikePark Wales and Rock UK. So, can I place on record my thanks to you, Carwyn, for your time as our First Minister, and for the support that you've given my constituency? And can I ask you to assure me that you'll continue to support the delivery of our Welsh Labour values and commitments as vociferously from the backbenches as you have in Government?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, that's a particularly tricky question that I've been posed there by my colleague, but I do thank her for her comments and, of course, what she has said. It shows our commitment to investing in all parts of Wales. We've seen a tremendous change in the economy of Merthyr and Rhymney over the past decade, I'd argue, with Merthyr now being seen particularly as a place of investment and jobs, with Tenneco and General Dynamics, of course, being attracted to the area.

I'll continue to be as vociferous as I can be from the backbenches—but not troublesome—in supporting values that I think represent fairness, justice and opportunity. And that is something I know that is shared very, very deeply between myself and the leader of Welsh Labour and, hopefully tomorrow, the First Minister of Wales.

Mohammad Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

As this is the best occasion, or last occasion, on which you will be answering questions in this Assembly as the First Minister, I hope you will accept my and our sincere best wishes for your future from this side of the Chamber. In this spirit of seasonal goodwill, would you join me in welcoming the fact that, thanks to the economic policies of the Conservative Government in London—[Interruption.]—in London, that the number of people claiming out-of-work benefit in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney has fallen by 55 per cent since 2010, thanks to our policies? Thank you.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, there have been occasions, of course, when we've worked with the UK Government—the city deals are an example of that. But if we look, for example, at unemployment in Wales, it is at a level that is at the UK average. Economic inactivity is at a historic low, employment rates are at a historic high, 18,000 young people were able to benefit from Jobs Growth Wales, and, of course, there's the investment that's been put into Merthyr and other communities over many, many years. And we see what happens when a Government commits to the communities of Wales, invests in them and provides jobs for the people who live in them.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

2. Will the First Minister make a statement on recent discussions with the National Grid on the north Wales connection? OAQ53103

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Officials are in regular discussions with National Grid on a number of issues, including the proposed north Wales connection project, which is currently going through the development consent Order process. The Welsh Government has submitted its representations to this process.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

Thank you very much. I’d like to take this opportunity to wish the First Minister well in his final question session, and to thank him for his courtesy over the last five and a half years in answering questions on behalf of my constituents.

A constituent from the Star, Gaerwen area was in tears on the phone to my office yesterday, feeling that she was under siege from the National Grid plans. That’s the feeling on Anglesey. Contrary to the wishes of the people of the island, and its representatives, the grid still wants to proceed with building a new row of pylons across the island. This National Assembly has voted against having pylons and in favour of undergrounding as a matter of principle. Will you therefore ask your officials in this forum, as one of your final acts as First Minister, to write to the Planning Inspectorate to encourage the rejection of these pylons, and also to write to Ofgem, as I have done this week, to insist that the grid must give real, meaningful consideration to putting its cables on the new bridge across the Menai, rather than tunneling at a possible cost of £200 million? It would save money for the Welsh Government as joint investor in the bridge, and would save money for the grid, which could then be invested in undergrounding.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

I agree completely with that. One of the problems that we’ve had in Britain over the years is that no sufficient consideration has been given to ensuring that, if one project proceeds, another project can take advantage of that. One is the Severn bridge and the fact that only cars can cross the bridge. There’s no rail deck there. But, with the Menai crossing, I think it would be important to understand that it’s a very good option that saves money for everybody and of course it’s a way of ensuring that the costs of constructing a new bridge would be reduced.

As regards the grid itself, we’re still urging the grid to ameliorate the impact of any new lines and to ensure that undergrounding is considered in repect of environmental and community impact, and also to consider undergrounding as a serious prospect, because I understand the concern of the people of Ynys Môn, and that’s why it’s so important that the grid should consider ensuring, as far as possible, that any new lines are buried.

Mark Isherwood (Conservative, North Wales)

In terms of your future role, I know this is the end of a chapter, but not the book. I also understand that Mrs Jones may have some ideas for you about what activities you might be undertaking as you go forward, according to media reports.

I was pleased to attend the 28 September meeting and speak at the 'Anglesey Says No To Pylons' public meeting at Menai Bridge, to discuss the next step, now that the National Grid had submitted the application for development consent to the planning inspectorate. As I said, there are cost advantages to the pylon proposals, but that doesn't take away from the general argument in favour of burying cables in areas of great natural beauty and helping the local economy as much as possible. However, all this is predicated essentially on Wylfa, and Wylfa Newydd going forward. What engagement or discussion has your Government had further to coverage yesterday indicating that there was now speculation, and that the board of Hitachi would be meeting in Japan today to discuss this issue because of concerns about projections of future increases in construction costs?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, can I thank the Member and others for their kind wishes? I think I have taken 320 First Minister's questions and been asked 3,000 questions and more. I'll leave others to judge whether I answered most of them, indeed, any of them. I'm sure everyone will have their view on that.

I am aware, of course, of the press speculation regarding Hitachi's investment. It is press speculation. It is a complicated process. Horizon has been in formal negotiations with the UK Government since the Secretary of State's positive statement in June this year regarding the financing of Wylfa Newydd, in a way, of course, which works both for investors and the UK electricity market. There is nothing beyond the press speculation to suggest that the project is at risk in any way, but, of course, we will continue to monitor the situation closely.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Diolch, Llywydd.

First Minister, in your nine years in post, what do you feel you have learnt and what advice would you give to the new First Minister?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, you always learn. You always learn. There is never a time when you know everything, clearly. What advice would I give to my successor? I've said it before: it's hugely important to balance the job against your life, because it's important to have time to think, and working day and night every single day is not a good way and not a sustainable way of working. But it's been a great honour to have done this job for nine years, and nine years is enough.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Thank you for that response. As you know, the Welsh Government will soon become responsible for raising a proportion of its revenue via income tax, and this is the final area of policy that I would like to raise with you in this Chamber. Thanks to the UK Government, income tax rates for working people across the UK have reduced significantly since 2010. More and more people in Wales are keeping more of what they earn with the tax-free personal allowance soon to increase to £12,500. Over 1.4 million people in Wales have benefited from the increases made to the personal allowance and higher rate threshold, and 41,000 people in Wales now pay no income tax at all. Coupled with the steady increases in the national living wage, which 81,000 people in Wales have benefited from, this has undoubtedly helped strengthen Wales's labour market and economy. Do you agree with me, First Minister, that Wales's long-term economic interests are best served by households and businesses being provided with a firm guarantee that income tax rates will remain low here in Wales?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, he will know, of course, that the manifesto commitment that we gave as a party in 2016 was that we would not change the rates of income tax. But, of course, we have ensured that we have pushed forward with a fairer society. He mentions the fact that fewer people pay tax, but we still have poverty, we still have people using foodbanks—we have people in paid work using foodbanks. That's as a result, of course, of the ending of child tax credits as they were. We can't, as a society, surely, be happy when, in years gone by, we used to say, 'The way out of poverty is to get a job'. That's no longer the case. Because of a lack of job security that people have and the fact that people sometimes have more than one job, we can't honestly say, with our hands on our hearts, that people, if they get a job, will inevitably find themselves in a better situation. And that is a challenge, of course, for all parties in the future.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

First Minister, for all the fierce exchanges across this Chamber, no-one can be in any doubt about the efforts and sacrifices that you have made in public service in Wales. Despite our political differences, we have been bound by an unshakable commitment to the people we serve and you have carried out that duty with dedication and devotion. So, on behalf of these benches and on behalf of the Welsh Conservative Party, may I wish you and your family well and wish you every success in whatever you do in the future?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, that's very kind. The one thing I will say—just to pull his leg—is I think that's the first time in four FMQs that he hasn't used the word 'shambles' [Laughter.]. But I do thank him very much for his words. He will know, of course, that robust debate is necessary in this Chamber. We, all of us in this Chamber have a different view of the world and it's in this Chamber that that robust debate must be carried out and the testing of ideas must be carried out. But he will also know that it is rarely the case, if ever, that that is carried on at a personal level. For me, yes, I've been here for nine years answering questions and perhaps I'll stay after that—who knows? But, I'm grateful to him for what he has said and I wish him well for the future.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Thank you, Llywydd. First Minister, in the manifesto published during your leadership election campaign in 2009, ‘Time to lead’, you said quite accurately, and I quote, that we need a culture of investment not a culture of grants in terms of our economic policy. However, some days ago, you said that the economic achievement that you’re proudest of was helping to save Tata Steel in Port Talbot and bringing Aston Martin to St Athan. Is that the major new vision, the new model, that you had in mind nine years ago?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

It was crucial to secure the jobs of the Tata Steel workers, and I’m extremely proud that we did that. It’s also important that you can attract investment from abroad and from the rest of the United Kingdom, and we’ve been very successful in doing that. If I understand it, the point the Member is making is what therefore are we doing for small businesses and what are we doing to promote an entrepreneurial culture in Wales. I don’t believe that you can do one without doing the other. We have the development bank that’s been established and we see more businesses being created in Wales. Of course, the greatest challenge is to ensure that those businesses that are growing don’t sell out to major companies, but that they want to grow and are able to grow into major companies. One of the weaknesses that we have in the Welsh economy is that very few major companies or organisations that exist in Wales where they have their headquarters in Wales. That is something I would like to see changing in the future.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Nine years ago, in your manifesto you also said that child poverty continues to be a plague on too many of our communities. Do you regret, therefore, that child poverty under your tenure has increased, now affecting more than one in three children in Wales? And if so, how do you justify the fact that during your tenure as First Minister you dropped your own target for reducing child poverty by the end of this decade? Where was the decade of delivery for children in Wales? Of course, the Labour Party has a new leader now, who’s also said that child poverty is going to be a priority, and that’s to be welcomed. But isn’t that characteristic, if truth be told, of Labour administrations, going back over 20 years: making major declarations of intent, taking small steps, a lack of progress being made, and for hundreds of thousands of our children and people, no hope whatsoever?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, first of all, I can point to what we’ve done to secure a reduction in child and family poverty, for example, and what we're doing with with childcare. It’s very important to very many families, but, of course, we’ve no control over the welfare system or the taxation system. The period of austerity has had an impact on families, of course, and we’ve seen a change in the credits available in the taxation system. It shows, of course, that we as a Labour Government can do much, but there is a limit—that is true. That’s why it’s all-important that we have a Labour Government throughout the whole of the United Kingdom to take action.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Yes, but, First Minister, it's not enough, is it, to blame Westminster for all our woes? The Equality and Human Rights Commission report, recently, on poverty in Wales pointed out that poverty rates in Wales have risen faster in Wales than across the UK, and the United Nations rapporteur on poverty pointed out the measures that are being taken by the Scottish Government that could have been taken here in Wales to provide at least some degree of protection for our people, if you had made the case for devolution.

Now, nine years ago you also said in your manifesto, setting out your leadership aspirations—you declared that a priority would be, and I quote,

'investing in a green transport strategy'

and examining the

'practicality of reopening the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line.'

Yet, during your time in office, the one transport initiative you've been most associated with is building the 14-mile M4 relief road—a proposal that I gently suggest hardly demonstrates a green approach to transport. Nor has it proved to be one where your Government has been able to take a decision. Some thought the relief road would be your last decision in office, though we know that's not now going to be the case. So, can I offer you an alternative, First Minister? The study you promised nine years ago on the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth railway line has just been published. We saw the pictures of Aberystwyth—the town of your alma mater, of course—on the programme last night. If you don't want to make a recommendation to your successor on a road, why not do it on a railway? Wouldn't that be a legacy of which you could be justly proud?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, of course, mischievously, there is a temptation to commit to anything in your last FMQs, but I better not do it. [Laughter.] The Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line is a project that is close to my heart, though clearly there is an immense cost. The line itself mainly was taken up in 1975, although a section of it was out of use from the 1960s onwards, and there are significant gaps in the line as well that would need to be looked at. I'd caution against saying, 'Well, roads are not the answer.' The Llandeilo bypass is one road, of course, that I know he will support, and I don't disagree with him—[Interruption.] I don't disagree with him. I know Llandeilo and I know the traffic problems there, so I understand the point, but the question—[Interruption.] The question he asks is about green transport policy. Well, of course, the south Wales metro was something that I was particularly keen to get off the ground, if that's the—well, it's the wrong phrase. But to start, it was a project that I first mentioned many years ago in Bedwas rugby club, of all places, and now, of course, we see a map ahead for the metro. We know that the traffic problems, particularly in our urban areas, can't be resolved by roads; it's just not possible. A metro solution wouldn't be right for Llandeilo, let’s be honest about that, but for many of our communities in Wales—. The reality is that there is no way of widening the roads into Cardiff. It means making sure there are more frequent services, better services, air-conditioned trains, a decent price that people have to pay for those services to encourage more people off the roads. And that is something I look forward to seeing develop over many, many years to come.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The leader of the UKIP group—Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett (UKIP, South Wales Central)

Diolch, Llywydd. As we know, First Minister, today is your last FMQs. I think this may not be an occasion to be too controversial, and perhaps we could both be slightly more reflective today. Now, you’ve been the First Minister for nine years, you were a Minister for almost as many years before that, so you have been at the heart of the Welsh Government for almost as long as it has existed. How many marks out of 10 would you give the Welsh Government’s performance during your time in office?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Ten. [Laughter.]

Gareth Bennett (UKIP, South Wales Central)

Is that the answer? [Laughter.] That's an interesting answer, but I may have a different appraisal. Are there perhaps areas where you feel the Welsh Government's performance could have been better?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

I think the one challenge that is left, and I’ve said this publicly, is local government. I do think that we’re not there in terms of local government. It’s a matter, of course, for the next Government to decide how to take things forward, but we know that regional working has been hugely successful, and we cannot take a back step when it comes to that. We’ve seen the results in education; the same thing must happen in planning, it must happen in social services. That perhaps is the one area I think that is still unresolved—a known major area that, to my mind, is still unresolved and a matter, of course, for the next Government.

Gareth Bennett (UKIP, South Wales Central)

You were featured in a BBC Wales programme last night, Being First Minister—a very interesting show—in which you said:

'What the Welsh public want to see is delivery. They're not interested in the mechanics; all the rest of it is guff. It doesn't count as far as the Welsh public are concerned.'

End of quote. What advice would you give to your successor on how to reduce 'guff', as you term it, and how to best deliver for the Welsh public?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, as I said in the programme, what counts for any policy or any legislation is that they will be noticed positively by people out there. Of course, the process of honing that legislation is important, but the public don't notice it. What is important is that, when we do something here, people say, 'That's made a real difference to our lives.' Now, I'm not going to go through a list as I normally do in FMQs—[Interruption.] All right. [Laughter.] But the one piece of legislation I think we can all be proud of, and I give Dai Lloyd credit for it, because it was his idea originally, is the Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013. There are literally people alive today as a result of that Act. I know there were concerns and misgivings amongst some Members. Not everybody was entirely comfortable with the direction that was being taken, but I think that is something that I take pride in as a First Minister, but also I think that this institution can take pride in it in terms of leading the way across the whole of the UK and in ensuring that there is hope for people where previously there was none. I don't think there's any greater thing that we can aim for, and that is something that, as I say, this Chamber can be rightly proud of.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Cynon Valley)

3. Will the First Minister outline action taken by the Welsh Government to support families? OAQ53110

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

As set out in 'Taking Wales Forward' and our national strategy 'Prosperity for All', support for children and families across Wales is a priority. It's exemplified, of course, through programmes such as Flying Start and Families First, alongside our childcare offer and the 'Parenting. Give it time.' campaign.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Cynon Valley)

Thank you, First Minister. Your administration has been characterised by a commitment to improve the life chances of children across Wales, and that's something that I'd like to place on record my thanks and appreciation for. The announcement last month of £15 million to expand services to support families and help reduce the need for children to enter care is part of that commitment. I've been doing some work with the WAVE Trust on their work to eliminate child maltreatment. WAVE's answer is built around primary prevention, offering support to parents and expectant parents before damage occurs. I know that officials have met with representatives of the WAVE Trust, so how is their work built into Welsh Government messages on positive parenting?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Can I thank the Member for raising the issue of the WAVE Trust? I do support the work of organisations like the WAVE Trust. Of course, they are committed to eradicating child maltreatment. Like many other third sector organisations operating across Wales, the trust's approach complements a number of programmes that we currently run and are developing, for example Flying Start and Families First. They, of course, help parents to adopt positive parenting styles and to provide effective early intervention and prevention services to allow families and their children to thrive and reach their potential. But, of course, inevitably in Government, it's hugely important to work with people on the ground, to have that expertise, and not try to replicate or replace what they do, but to complement the work that they are already delivering in order, of course, to get the best outcomes.

Darren Millar (Conservative, Clwyd West)

First Minister, can I wish you every success for the time that you'll be able to spend with your family as well, post your service as First Minister? I'm very pleased to hear you recognising the work of third sector organisations in supporting families. One very successful organisation that is celebrating its thirtieth anniversary this year is Care for the Family, which is based in Taff's Well. It's been doing some excellent work in terms of positive parenting, and indeed supporting parents not just across Wales, but across the rest of the UK and indeed the wider world. Will you join me in congratulating Care for the Family on their thirtieth anniversary? What specific support are you putting in place to increase the capacity of organisations like Care for the Family and others like them to make their services more widely available here in Wales?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Can I thank the Member for his comments? Of course, it is right to say that when politicians are off to spend more time with their families it's a euphemism for being sacked. [Laughter.] So, hopefully that's not the case yet today.

Of course, if we look at the Families First programme, we've invested over £290 million in that programme since it was introduced. That is designed to provide a coherent level of support for families and, indeed, for children. Of course, we look to work with any organisation that supports the Welsh Government's view of positive parenting, because we know that that can deliver the best outcomes for children and parents.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

May I also wish you well for the future?

Isn’t it true to say that the poorest families in Wales have been let down by your Government and by your leadership? There are many examples, and the latest are the childcare proposals—a deficient Bill that discriminates against families and parents who are already struggling, because those families not in work will not qualify for free childcare under your proposals. That is unfair and unjust, and Plaid Cymru will be voting against that Bill tomorrow.

Is it a lack of support for the poorest families in our society that is one of the issues that you are most disappointed about in looking back at your tenure as First Minister?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

May I say, with regard to the childcare Bill, the aim is to ensure that it is easier for people to gain employment or to access employment? We know, of course, that one of the problems that people face is the fact that childcare is so expensive. So, the aim of the legislation is to ensure that that is dealt with—that childcare is available for free. Of course, the aim of the programme is to ensure that people can enter into the world of work, so if they want to do that they can have that opportunity, and that is why the Bill itself has been crafted in the way that it has, in order to get rid of financial obstacles or barriers that stand between people and access to employment, and also, of course, by doing that, reduce poverty across Wales.

David Lloyd (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

4. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's plans for economic development in South Wales West? OAQ53101

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Our 'Prosperity for All' national strategy and the economic action plan set out the actions we are taking to support economic development across the whole of Wales.

David Lloyd (Plaid Cymru, South Wales West)

Whilst thanking you for your kind words on organ donation, which is a crucially important piece of legislation for us as a nation, and also for all the assistance you’ve provided to my constituents over the years, may I say: the Swansea bay city deal is central to the economic development of the south west, as you well know? Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for the economy made a written statement noting that the UK Government and the Welsh Government had decided to conduct a swift independent review of the deal, which would look at progress to date, and would also look at how the deal is being governed. Now, elected Members across my region want to see the city deal creating the expected jobs as soon as possible. So, can you expand on the statement made last week, and can you give confirmation to Members today of the timetable linked to this review? When do you expect it to report?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

At the moment, what we want to ensure is that the review is a swift one, that it’s independent, and, of course, one that will secure a foundation for the next level of action. Everybody, of course, is committed to ensuring that the deal itself is successful and, of course, we would expect very early in the new year that the review will be available. So, it’s crucial that it’s complete but also not too slow.

Suzy Davies (Conservative, South Wales West)

First Minister, hopefully, the Swansea bay city deal is going to be part of the legacy that you can be proud of, but, of course, we've all been a little bit jittery about the press reports that we've had, as Dai Lloyd mentioned, over the last couple of days. I don't expect you to pre-empt the rapid review, and I'm grateful that both Governments are doing a rapid review, but is there any—? There are two projects of particular importance to me: one being the Swansea digital waterfront and the other being the steel innovation centre, and I'm just looking—. Is there anything that causes you any concern at all—bearing in mind that these particular projects have had good sign-off—that we would need to know about now, or can you reassure potential investors that concerns over one part of the deal shouldn't shake their confidence in the rest of it?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Yes. Of course, that issue is well known to Members and I won't comment further on it, but the deal, of course, remains something that's hugely important for delivery in Swansea bay. But it is important, when circumstances arise, that a review is undertaken, just to make sure that things are moving on as they should, and that, of course, is something that we will work on with the UK Government.

Caroline Jones (UKIP, South Wales West)

First Minister, the city deal has a big part to play in improving the economy of my region, as does true collaboration between the public and private sectors. The region's small and medium-sized enterprises need a Government that understand their needs when it comes to infrastructure and regulation. What advice would you give your successor when it comes to creating the right environment for Wales's businesses to survive?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

I think we're doing that already, and I think what's important is, more than anything else, that business knows that the Government is there to help it, to support it, but not interfere with it. Government works best when it works alongside business and that is something that we have striven to do over the past decade and, of course, the economic figures show that that approach has been successful. Of course, it's for the new Government to decide what direction it takes, but it is hugely important—and this is something that businesses have said to me many, many times—that we work closely. We're a small country; we work closely between public and private sector to deliver the best outcomes for the people of Wales.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

First Minister, as Suzy Davies pointed out, one of the aspects of the city deal is the steel institute and, let's be blunt, if it hadn't been for Welsh Government stepping up to the plate under your leadership, we may not have a steel industry here in south Wales to have such an institute—back in 2016. Can you give me assurances that, before you return to the backbenches, you will meet with your successor to ensure that they understand the importance of steel to the industries in Wales, to ensure that it continues to work for the people of Wales, that the plant in Port Talbot is crucial to that sector, including the heavy end, so that we can see, going forward, it's not just the heavy end of steel, it's also the innovative approaches in steel, and how we can—? We in Wales can lead steel production across the world.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, I thank the Member for his comments. We all appreciate how important the steel industry is, of course, across Wales. I well remember in March 2016 the announcements that were made then. I think it's fair to say the future looked very bleak at that point, particularly for the heavy end at Port Talbot. There was a real risk that the heavy end would go, and Shotton, Trostre and the Orb—they seemed to be in a better position because they were fed from Port Talbot. When I went to Shotton, one of the points they made me there was that, 'We're supplied from Port Talbot. If we don't get supplied from Port Talbot, we have six months to find another supplier.' And that was a real issue. Even though Shotton itself was doing well financially, actually, without Port Talbot, it couldn't function properly. And that point was made very, very clear to me at the time. We are in a much better position. We're not out of the woods yet. The steel industry is—the market is always difficult and very dependent on currency fluctuations. But it took a lot of work, working with Tata—and, in fairness, Tata as a company were always open to working with us. I think, if we'd had some businesses from other countries, they wouldn't have spoken to us. But Tata had a sense of social responsibility, which I was impressed with for a company of its size. We were able to work with them to first of all reduce losses then, of course, to chart a course for the future and that work is ongoing. I know how important the Abbey, as we all call it, is to the economy, not just of Port Talbot, but—. In my constituency, Cornelly, most of the village was built to house workers working in the Abbey Works, and it will still remain a hugely important part of Welsh industry and, no matter who is in Government, I've no doubt that support will continue in the future.

Mohammad Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

5. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve standards of education in Wales? OAQ53104

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, our national mission is to raise standards of education for our young people. We're developing new evaluation and improvement arrangements, which will further support school improvement. The next stage, of course, is to consider how to support our schools causing most concern at an early stage, and the Cabinet Secretary for Education will update members in the new year on that point.

Mohammad Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you very much for that answer, First Minister. According to Estyn, only half of secondary schools in Wales are judged 'good' or 'excellent'. Pupils do not develop knowledge and skills well enough or make enough progress in around a half of Welsh secondary schools, and the majority of pupils in these schools do not achieve in line with their abilities by the time they reach the end of compulsory schooling. This impacts on their employment prospects and adds to the pressure on further education colleges, which have to put right the failure of the education system to prepare these students for work. What action does the First Minister advise his successor to take to address these failings before another generation of children in Wales is condemned to be underachievers?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, I don't agree that children are underachieving. I think there are excellent results in Wales in A-levels and in GCSEs, and we see very good standards of teaching in Wales. I think what is right to say is that consistency has always been an issue. Now, of course, the key to dealing with that is local government, because local government delivers education. Now, it's perfectly right and proper, of course, that I'm asked questions, and the Cabinet Secretary is asked questions, about education in this Chamber, but local government has a major role to play, and that means local government has to work together, regionally, to deliver education. We've seen improvements. It'd be wholly wrong for any local authority to try to deliver education itself or to pull out of regional structures. That is a backward step and children's education will be worsened as a result. So, yes, we want to work with the local authorities, but it's hugely important as well that local authorities work together to deliver education across a far wider area.

Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru, Arfon)

As we’ve just heard, pupils attending half of Welsh secondary schools are failing to reach their full potential by the time that they leave school. It’s Estyn that states that, despite what you’ve just said. Five years ago, you admitted that the Welsh Government had taken its eye off the ball in terms of education in the past and you agreed at that point—and I quote—that you had taken your eye off the ball. Five years since you made that statement, are you disappointed with the most recent findings by Estyn and the lack of pace in progress in our secondary schools particularly?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, I did say that, but I said that about nine years ago. Of course, since then things have changed, and changed for the better. We now see the results improving. For example, we know that the young people of Wales are doing extremely well at A-level and we’ve seen progress in the grades that people gain at GCSE and, of course, we know that the people of Wales are pleased with the education system that we have. That doesn’t mean to say that we’re complacent and we’re saying, ‘That’s okay, then.' There is work to be done, of course, and we understand that and that work is being done by the Cabinet Secretary. But, as regards the way forward and ensuring that funding is available to schools and that funding is available to local authorities to pay teachers, they’ve been given that funding and it's crucial that they should spend that money on paying teachers' salaries. I think a great deal has changed over the past years and we now see things going in the right direction.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

First Minister, the early years are vital to education and life chances throughout life, so may I commend you and Welsh Government on building the Flying Start programme, which I believe is valuable and effective? But, as ever, there is more to be done, and I think the postcode eligibility criteria for Flying Start calls into question whether more can be done to roll out this programme to many more families in Wales. Is that something that you believe should happen?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, that's a matter—it's a matter for the next Government. It's the first time I've used that phrase, I have to say, in First Minister's questions. But, of course, it's—. The difficulty is that we know that many programmes are being delivered in areas, but we also know, of course, that there will be families in other areas that don't benefit from the same schemes. The difficult bit has been identifying those families who might live outside of those areas in order that they can benefit. I'm sure that this is something that will be looked at in the months to come.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Swansea East)

6. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government's approach to target setting in relation to the economy? OAQ53078

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

We're developing a clear and consistent measuring framework across Government with the well-being indicators. We'll use those to track our economic progress over the longer term, and we are working with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and other partners to learn from best practice around the world.

Mike Hedges (Labour, Swansea East)

Can I thank the First Minister for that, and can I also add my best wishes to him for the future? Taking forestry as an example, we have long-term targets set but neither annual targets nor area targets announced. Would it not aid both scrutiny and performance if such targets were set and made public, so that we could actually see the steps on the journey, not just where we're trying to end up?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

I think if we look at the economic statistics—certainly the ones published today—we will see that things have improved greatly over the past year and beyond. Of course, the economic action plan has made good progress since its implementation. We have the new operating model. Since May, we've completed more than 70 economic contracts with businesses, and they are businesses of different sizes. They're not all large businesses, they're in different sectors and in different parts of Wales, and, of course, we're receiving a flow of investment propositions from businesses that align to them.

In terms of targets, well, what we aim to do, of course, is to improve the economy of Wales across Wales. We can see that in the statistics—the statistics tell us the story. They are targets that we would want to improve on in years to come, and we've seen tremendous improvement over the past decade.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

Wales has significant structural economic challenges, and I think you've been right over the years to highlight those obstacles to growth. In a spirit of mutual recognition of Wales's challenges, in wanting Wales's economic fortunes to flourish, what do you feel are the main lessons that you have learnt from managing the economy of Wales over the past nine years? What do you feel are the areas of economic policy that would benefit most from greater co-operation between the major political parties in Wales?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

This is now beginning to sound like a job interview, given that question. For me, there are two things that are vital, and these are issues that have been raised with me many, many times. The first is that it's hugely important to project Wales's image across the world—to go out and sell Wales. No-one else will do it, and it's massively important that we have trade missions. Some of those trade missions will be led by Ministers, or by a First Minister. They open doors that otherwise wouldn't be opened, and that has led to us being able to, for example, get to a position where Qatar Airways are flying from Cardiff. The international work is important, and our international offices are hugely important to make sure that people know that Wales is there and what we have to offer.

But skills is the second point. One of the questions that I was often asked when I used to talk to businesses in other countries—and, indeed, businesses in Wales—was, 'Where are we going to get the skills? Have we got the skills pipeline that we need in order to prosper in Wales?' Increasingly, we were able to do that. We were able to say—because we looked at particular sectors where we already had successful businesses, we could say, 'There is a skills pipeline—it's there, and, in fact, you can work together to create that skills pipeline with a business that's similar to yours.'

That's been a big change. Wales was seen as a low-cost, low-wage and low-skill economy at one time. We can't afford to be in that position again, and nor would anybody want us to be in that position again in this Chamber. What we can do is have an ever-greater focus on skills, because, by doing that, that's the way that you bring highly skilled jobs into Wales. It's also the way that you encourage entrepreneurs to come forward, because they can work with other people to build businesses in Wales and to realise their dreams. Because we know that, historically, in Wales we've not done well with entrepreneurs feeling that they can take a business forward. Many people have had good ideas and they haven't taken them forward. I think we're past that stage now, particularly with young people, but it is skills, skills, skills.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

7. Will the First Minister provide an update on plans for the development of Cardiff Airport? OAQ53108

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Yes. I remember my predecessor, Rhodri Morgan, writing an article in the Western Mail where he said that my entire time as First Minister would be judged on the performance of Cardiff Airport. On that basis, I'm entirely happy to be judged, then, on that. Other people will have different views—I understand that—but, of course, Cardiff Airport has ambitious plans for growth and a vision until 2040. They can be found in the airport’s master plan that was jointly launched by ourselves and the airport in July.

Jane Hutt (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan)

I'd like to thank the First Minister for securing the future of Cardiff Airport, and also welcome, as he has, the latest passenger figures, which show that during the last financial year, total passenger numbers grew year on year by 9 per cent to reach 1.48 million. And also, just to follow up representations that I know you have made consistently, First Minister, to the UK Government regarding devolving air passenger duty—of course, there is cross-party support here for that—it's clear it would have a beneficial impact for Cardiff Airport and for Wales, so where do you think we're going in terms of those negotiations?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

First of all, it's been personally a great pleasure for me to see the growth in the airport. I'd like to pay tribute to Roger Lewis, to Debra Barber and all those who work at the airport who've done so much to ensure its future. I knew there was a future there if it was run properly, and that's what we intended to do, which is why, of course, we didn't try and run it ourselves via politicians or civil servants; it was run and is being run by an arm's-length company. And we see, of course, the great growth in passenger numbers that there's been in that time.

APD is a huge disappointment. It's in the Secretary of State for Wales's constituency, and it's a huge shame that he has not been able to deliver APD to the airport. Scotland has it; there are talks in Northern Ireland. The real reason—. There are two reasons why we haven't had it. Firstly, the Treasury regret very much having given it to Scotland, so they don't want to give it to us. Secondly, Liam Fox represents, if I remember rightly, the area that Bristol Airport is in, and I don't think he's been particularly supportive of APD. Bristol has said that Cardiff is a threat to the airport. I don't see it that way. We need Bristol because if we have big events in the stadium, we need Bristol Airport; we're not out to get Bristol Airport. But I do think that Cardiff has huge potential in terms of long haul, particularly. There are greater advantages that Bristol has got, and even if we had long-haul APD devolved, that would promote huge growth in passenger numbers in the airport and also, of course, take some pressure—let's not over-exaggerate—but some pressure off Heathrow. And Cardiff is the airport in the western part of this island that is best placed to deal with that long- haul traffic. It's a great shame that the UK Government can't see that, and can't see that it would help to take the pressure off the London airports.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

It is ironic, I think, that with the clock going on, this might well be the last question, and I'll leave my comments to the next statement about your time as First Minister, if I may, First Minister. But you and I duelled in this Chamber over Cardiff Airport many times, and it'll be interesting to see, once the £100 plus million that the Welsh Government has put into the airport—the longevity of that facility. It is vital that we do have an airport, but it's also vital that you bring private partners in to support the airport, which, in fairness to you, First Minister, I think you've identified as being a goal of the Welsh Government. Can you update the Chamber as to the progress that the Welsh Government might have made in enticing private partners to come in and take a stake, or take some sort of equity in the airport, which will facilitate greater investment? I do go back to my comments that the Welsh Government have put in excess of £100 million into the airport to date. That clearly is not sustainable in itself, so private equity is required.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

First of all, the purchase of the airport was, if I remember rightly, £52 million, and then, of course, there has been a series of loans that have been made available to the airport. That money is not lost. My intention always was that the airport would increase in value, and it has, well beyond the purchase price that we paid. And there would come a point when private equity would then get involved. It's difficult to see a situation where the Welsh Government didn't have a golden share in any company but, certainly, we'd welcome private investment coming in to help the airport to develop. The question has always been when. When I spoke to Qatar Airways at the start of the year, I asked the view of their chief executive. His view at that point was, 'Well, don't do it yet.' There's still time for the airport to build up, but there'll come a time when looking for private partners will become part of the airport's future.

It's got an exciting future, and the one thing, again, I used to be asked was, 'Does Wales have an international airport?' I know it's in the south, and I know that people in the north of Wales are not going to use Cardiff very much, but it was hugely important symbolically that we had an international airport. That did not mean that we should take on board something that was a basket case that was never going to work, but we've seen with all the flights coming into Cardiff now, with the refurbishment of the airport, that we now have an airport in south Wales that we can be proud of. And if Rhodri was right in terms of judging me on my performance on the airport then I can only be content.

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru, Ynys Môn)

If truth be told, Anglesey Airport is reliant on Cardiff Airport and the success of Cardiff Airport, but Brexit is a threat to both of those airports in terms of public service obligations. Now, with the European Union seeming to be eager to provide more flexibility to introduce more flights, and the UK Government rejecting that—and we had a statement on this yesterday from the transport Secretary—will you encourage the new First Minister, and whoever is the new transport Secretary, to put as much pressure as possible on the UK Government to make that bid to the EU to allow this flexibility in order to encourage and allow more flights in Anglesey and in Cardiff under the European arrangements before Brexit?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Well, that work will continue, and it's true to say, of course, that the future of Ynys Môn airport is dependent on Cardiff Airport, and that is why I have been so supportive over the years of the service between the two airports. I know that the history has been difficult now and then, but it is a service that is up there with the best now, and we see that more people are beginning to use those aeroplanes because it's a larger aeroplane, and, of course, some people don't like to travel on smaller aeroplanes. But there are opportunities too for Ynys Môn airport—how can you link Ynys Môn into Cardiff so that people fly from Ynys Môn to Cardiff and then outwards in the same way as they fly to Schiphol and now, of course, to Doha? There are opportunities there to expand the services available from Ynys Môn airport, not, of course, just to link north and south Wales, but also to link Ynys Môn and Gwynedd, through Cardiff, to the rest of Europe.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you, First Minister.

2. Statement by the First Minister: Resignation Statement

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

May I now call on the First Minister to make his resignation statement? First Minister.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Thank you, Llywydd. Later this afternoon, I will be writing to Her Majesty the Queen to resign after nine years as First Minister of Wales. It's been a privilege to succeed my friend and mentor Rhodri Morgan, and of course it's been a huge privilege to serve Wales in this job and to be at the helm at such a challenging and crucial time in our history as a nation. In preparing to give up the reins, I have mixed feelings, of course. They are bittersweet, if I can put it in those terms. Those are the feelings I have, like everyone else leaving a post that has been central to their lives. There's a sense of sadness in standing down as well as pride, too, in the work that has been achieved.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Llywydd, later this afternoon, I'll tender my resignation to Her Majesty the Queen, after nine years as First Minister of Wales. It was a privilege to follow my friend and mentor Rhodri Morgan. It's been a huge privilege to serve Wales in this job and to be at the helm at a time of great challenge, a crucial time in our nation's history. As I prepare to hand over the reins, the feelings are, I suppose, bittersweet, an experience shared, I'm sure, by everyone leaving a role that has been central to their lives. There's sadness, of course, in standing down, combined with pride in the work that has been achieved.

The post that I took on in 2009 has changed considerably since I took it on, and so has the world around us. People were more likely to write a letter than a tweet, selfies were more a thing for Paris Hilton than politicians, and arguably that should still be the case. [Laughter.] Perhaps more importantly, the National Assembly and the Welsh Government are very different organisations too, with more powers, more levers and higher expectations of delivery. If someone had said to me in 1999 that I would leave the job of First Minister—well, that would have surprised me, but leave the job of First Minister in a tax-varying, law-making Parliament, I would have been very surprised and delighted.

We have those tools. We have achieved a great deal, even in these toughest of times. Devolution is established, not just in law, not just in fact, but now in the hearts of the people of Wales, all doubts removed.

But, if I've achieved anything in this time, it's been with the help of many, many others. I've learnt that you achieve very little in life on your own. Our Parliament may be more powerful, but it's still young and it is, at least to my mind, too small. And that means there is huge pressure on everyone in this Chamber to make Government better. The crucial democratic duty of proper scrutiny, which is a task you've all taken to with the utmost seriousness—sometimes taken too seriously for my liking—. But nevertheless that is what I'm here to do. But I pay tribute to everyone in the Chamber for what you do to challenge us to do better.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

I'd like, if I may, to just mention some people. First of all, my family: Lisa, my wife, who is here today, and I've been married to her for 24 years; Caron, my father, who is also here today and was here nine years ago; my mother was alive at that point, but died six days after I became First Minister, and she is somebody, of course, who is very much in my thoughts today; and my two children, Seren and Ruairi, who have had to live with a father who was always in Government and the embarrassment that that brings. So, my thanks to them as well.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Thank you to the children and to Lisa and dad.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Could I thank the Permanent Secretaries who have served in my time—two Morgans and a Jones—and the civil service? Because, politicians, of course, come up with policies and ideas and, sometimes, it is for civil servants to put those into practice. It's not always the easiest thing in the world, and I thank them for the work that they have done. I thank the Labour group and the Welsh Labour Party for the support they've given me over the past nine yeas, and I look forward, of course, to making sure that support is available to my successor as well, and that goes without saying, of course. To you, Llywydd, of course, it's not always easy to control this Chamber, sometimes tempers are a little frayed—I think Adam and I are probably guilty of that, and we saw it last night on the documentary—[Interruption.] The Amman Valley, well, the upper Amman Valley—we could discuss which end of the Amman Valley is best. And, of course, all Assembly Members, because, as I said, scrutiny is a hugely important part of Government. If there's no scrutiny, then Government becomes sloppy, Government becomes ineffective, and that's why the scrutiny of all in this Chamber is important to hone Government and to make sure that Government understands what needs to be done in order to make legislation or policy effective.

It's been a challenging time—the double whammy of reduced budgets and the impact of benefit cuts on Wales, and then, of course, the small matter of Brexit. Whilst it would've been irresponsible for any leader to have ignored these issues, I've always talked to my Cabinet about the importance of delivery, regardless of these dominant issues, and what is it? Well, it remains the same: people want good schools, a good job and a good NHS, free at the point of use; they want a better tomorrow for their children and their grandchildren. And so, there are 118 brand new schools in Wales and a further 41 under construction, and the children in those schools are getting more and more top grades. In the future, they're going to learn more and more, not just traditional subjects, but how to be good citizens. Our education system is not fractured by destructive competition. Our schools and our teachers are working together in the interests of the whole country.

And there are tens of thousands more people in work today, including, of course, in Port Talbot, Trostre, Llanwern and Shotton; tens of thousands of young people are pursuing life-changing apprenticeships; we have record inward investment; 18,000 young people have been given opportunities through our Jobs Growth Wales programme; there are 20,000 fewer young people not in education or training. More people are surviving cancer than ever before; delayed transfers of care are at a record low; we've improved survival rates because of our new ambulance response model; and these are more than soundbites, they are fundamental truths about how life is changing for people in Wales. Because, what does a new school mean? It's not just a political promise kept; it's a child's future improved. Whether it's in Rhyl, Aberdare or Cardiff East, 11-year-olds are walking into bright, new schools with third generation pitches outside and the latest technology at their fingertips inside.

Extra investment in our NHS doesn't mean more doctors and nurses on its own, it also means that 700 people have been able to access HIV prevention medication in our country. Not one of the people who have accessed pre-exposure prophylaxis in Wales have gone on to contract HIV. And one of the remarkable changes, since I was a teenager and in university, has been the conquest of AIDS. The shadow of it was frightening back in the 1980s. Nobody ever thought at that point there would ever be a way, not just to remove AIDS, but to control it. And, over the years, we've seen a huge change in that, and that, for me, has been an incredible testimony to the medical research that has been carried out.

We've set examples for the world to follow: we introduced deemed consent for organ donation; we abolished child burial fees; we're world leaders in recycling; we've legislated to protect tenants and prevent homelessness; ended the right to buy in Wales; we've reformed the social care system in Wales; and we've redefined the language. The language, at one time, many of us will remember, was a political football; it isn't any more. Now, we have a language that everybody knows is a source of national pride, whether they speak Welsh or not. And we've committed, of course, to make Wales the safest place in Europe for women. We're not there yet, there's some way to go, but that is the aim of not just the Government now, but the Government in the future.

When we were provoked as a nation, we held firm. Those attacks on our NHS in Wales, a line between life and death, we responded with dignity, and we backed our hardworking doctors and nurses, not just with extra money, but with something of even greater value, and that's respect. Making policy for Wales, not for London's media.

Our growing confidence and self-belief as a Government, as a country, has come even in the face of a decade of austerity. But, of course, none of these policies and achievements exist in isolation from each other. They all to my mind add up to something that I always want for Wales, and they are fairness and hope, because they have been my watchwords in Government, just as they were my parents' watchwords at home. And those are the words, I believe, that are very close to the heart of the person I'll be voting for as the next First Minister of Wales. It is Mark, to make that clear. [Laughter.] It has been a great pleasure to work alongside you, Mark, and all my Cabinet colleagues, past and present, who have given me such fantastic support for so many years. Mark is someone who can effortlessly match both principles and pragmatism, and I have no doubt that he will make a superb First Minister of Wales.

I've been told that Geraint Thomas has done the ultimate Welsh mic drop after winning the Tour de France, so I won't attempt to finish it in quite the same way, not that I suppose that I can anyway. [Laughter.] Instead, I'd just like to say thank you to everyone here, but most importantly to the people of Wales I've had the honour to serve. Every school or hospital, every business I've seen, on the Eisteddfod maes, or the Royal Welsh showground, out shopping with the family, or the rugby, wherever it may be, I've been met with kindness and with courtesy, and I cannot thank you enough.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

It's been an honour.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

It's been an honour. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you. [Applause.]

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

To reply to the statement, therefore, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, as you've said, you have led your party and your country for nine years, and as has already been said in this Chamber earlier today, you have been a member of the Welsh Government's Cabinet for over 18 years—almost as long as your former Government colleague, the Member for the Vale of Glamorgan. Of course, during that time, you have held many of the major portfolios—education, environment, agriculture and Counsel General—as well as the highest public office in Wales. Very few people earn the privilege to lead their country, and let alone for the best part of a decade.

Legacy is important in politics, and it is true to say that many people will remember your time as First Minister for different things and different reasons. The decisions we make as politicians, particularly when we hold high office, can have significant consequences for our nation and for individual people. They can affect people for good and for ill. Sometimes we cannot conceive of the consequences that our decisions will have, but they will have their effect nevertheless. Some decisions we will wish we had made sooner, some we regret, but all are part of our story and the legacy we leave behind.

Personally, having been an Assembly Member since 2007, I have always found you approachable and straightforward, particularly when I have raised issues of concern. Being an elected representative does place additional responsibilities on us, and that's okay, because we go into politics with open eyes. But it places additional responsibilities on our families as well, and that can sometimes be very difficult. We sometimes ask a lot of our families and our loved ones. As First Minister, I appreciate the additional scrutiny and pressure on your family, and I am sure that their private feelings of relief at your decision to stand down are matched by admiration and pride for the work you've done in the last nine years.

While we have had many political differences and expressed strongly held views on Welsh Government policies and decisions, I have always had the utmost respect for you as the holder of the office of First Minister, and the way in which you have conducted your role. We have clashed on several occasions in this Chamber, especially in recent weeks, but whatever our political differences, as people, I am confident that there is more that unites us than what divides us. And, yes, there are times when we have worked together in the national interest. All parties in this Chamber campaigned together in the 2011 referendum on law-making powers, but we've shared some common ground on policy too: food hygiene ratings, public health, free childcare and carrier bag levies to name a few. And I know that in recent weeks you have visited a number of projects delivered during your time in office, and, not least, a number of new school buildings built through local authorities and the Welsh Government's twenty-first century schools programme.

While it's fair to say that you took over from a real giant of Welsh politics, your successor too has some big shoes to fill. I genuinely believe that all of us in this Chamber, while our journey here came through different routes, from different parts of Wales, are united by a commitment to public service. We all want the best for our country. We want a healthier, more prosperous, more environmentally friendly and fairer Wales, and through robust debate in this Chamber we all vote in the best interests of the people we represent, and I know that you share that desire, First Minister. And, on behalf of the Welsh Conservative group and the Welsh Conservative Party, I'd like to thank you for the immense contribution you have made during your tenure as First Minister, and the contribution you have made in 18 years in Government to our National Assembly and to Wales.

As the Assembly Member for Bridgend, I know you will continue to play an active role in Welsh politics and in this place, and beyond that as well, and I know that public service is in your veins. So, I'm sure there is a future for you working for the people of Wales in public life. Thank you for your commitment to public service, Carwyn. Congratulations on your achievements in office and may I wish you and your family every success in the future. [Applause.]

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

First Minister, I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that we haven't always seen eye to eye over the years. But, I have no doubt that at every point during the period that you have held high office you've had the interests of our country foremost in your thoughts. When you took the reins, you were just the second First Minister in our history, and that particular honour will be yours forever, of course.

One of your main tasks in many ways was to build on the success of your predecessor, and someone you described earlier as your mentor, Rhodri Morgan—one who was crucial in gaining popular support for our National Assembly, a new institution that was on very unstable foundations during those early days. You took that responsibility seriously, working in the coalition with my party at that time. You proceeded with the referendum that we as two parties had agreed to institute, ensuring that this Senedd today has the powers that enable us to legislate for Wales and its people, today and for the future. That was quite an achievement, Carwyn, and I'm eager to put that on record today. Through collaboration between our two parties, there was a successful referendum in 2011, which was a historic milestone. We use those words very often as politicians, but this was historic in terms of the growth and development of our country’s national institutions.

I think your articulation of your vision of the kind of constitutional framework that Wales must have in order to become a more successful country can be seen as your most important contribution. As well as developing the Senedd's law-making powers, we saw the beginnings of the introduction of tax-varying responsibilities during your tenure. These powers will be crucial for us to have a more rounded economic policy for the future. You’ve also argued the case strongly for a distinctive legal jurisdiction for Wales and set in train the commission on justice, which I'm sure will take that agenda forward. Indeed, I am confident that leaders of an independent Wales in the future will be grateful to you for your contribution in that regard.

Beyond that, you've made a number of interventions more generally on a UK-wide level, calling for more co-operation between the devolved administrations and the UK Government. You've called for a federal structure for the United Kingdom, with the devolved nations represented in a reformed second chamber. This has of course opened the door to the next stages in the evolution of the relationship between the countries of these islands, which I'm sure will inevitably happen over the next decade. I'm sure that you will have a further contribution to make to that discussion.

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

During this time, closer to home, of course, at the dispatch box in this Chamber, as you've already alluded to, you've generally sustained—our Amman valley passion notwithstanding—a quiet dignity, if I may say, in your dealings with colleagues. You have overseen a very wide brief with masterly composure. I, for one, have found you a tough opponent to disrupt. Shall we just say it's hard to ruffle your feathers, Carwyn?

Those outside the immediate cut and thrust of political life will find it hard to understand the stresses and strains that inevitably affect us all, and not least the families on which we all depend. So, as well as paying tribute to you personally, I think it is fitting that we should also acknowledge the support you have received from your wife Lisa, your children, Seren and Ruairi, and from your father, Caron.

Carwyn, through all your period in office, you have demonstrated an admirable resilience, a quality I am sure will be necessary for your successor, whoever that turns out to be. [Laughter.]

Adam Price (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

May I wish you sincerely all the best for you and your family for the future, and thank you from the bottom of my heart, on behalf of the people of Wales, for your years of service? [Applause.]

Gareth Bennett (UKIP, South Wales Central)

Thank you for your statement, First Minister, and thank you for your kind attention to the questions I and the UKIP group have asked you over the past two and a half years. We have occasionally had our disagreements, but I feel that these were political differences of opinion, and certainly, for my part, I never felt there was any personal acrimony there. I have enjoyed our encounters. Of course we will still see you in the Chamber, but it will be slightly strange not to see you in the seat that you've been occupying for all of my time here. I would say that I haven't always agreed with your answers, but on the whole you have demonstrated a good mastery of your very wide portfolio as the Welsh First Minister, as Adam Price alluded to just now. You've also shown a great deal of stamina in remaining in office for so long. I believe that you and Jane Hutt are among the longest serving Ministers in UK political history.

There have been remarks in the past about your resemblance to the tv weatherman Derek Brockway, and there was that Comic Relief performance of a few years ago when the two of you swapped places. Personally, I couldn't quite see that resemblance. Increasingly, I am finding I get you confused with the Welsh rugby coach, Warren Gatland. [Laughter.] Is it true that the two of you have never been seen in the same room together? Anyway, while you reflect on that, I wish you well, First Minister, in your future career, on behalf of both myself and the UKIP group. Thank you.

Vikki Howells (Labour, Cynon Valley)

It's an honour to speak today on behalf of the Labour group, to pay tribute to the man who has led our party and our country for the past nine years. The challenges have at times been considerable. As I know you've previously said yourself, Carwyn, you took office in the wake of the global financial crash, constrained by the political commitment to austerity from Westminster, and the past few years have, of course, been dominated by Brexit. There have indeed been dark days, but throughout, Carwyn, you have provided principled and passionate leadership, a leadership that has stood up for Wales, that worked together to build a better Wales, and the achievements have been considerable—not least of these has been your success in leading Welsh Labour to two election wins.

Opinion polling consistently told us, Carwyn, that you were the most highly rated politician in Wales—an electoral asset to Welsh Labour. I personally experienced a little of this magic, and I fondly remember campaigning with you in Mountain Ash just before the 2016 election. The support that you provided to me as a first-time candidate was much appreciated, as, I hope, was the warm welcome that you received from local residents at the busy weekly market. A group of women we met at Abercynon library a little later on were similarly starstruck, but you found a way of engaging them and putting them at their ease—so much so that when I returned a few minutes later, they were happily giving you advice on how to dye your hair. [Laughter.] Then they moved on to complimenting you on your walking programmes and your cheerful evening broadcast, and the truth sank in. They did think that I had brought an equally popular weatherman for a visit.

But, regardless of that case of mistaken identity, your leadership in government has really made a difference in Wales. It’s made a difference to the additional people in work or with qualifications. It’s made a difference to the record numbers of NHS staff and the pay that they receive. It’s made a difference to the people accessing new treatments, not waiting so long for diagnostic tests or transfers of care, and simply surviving conditions like cancer.

As I mentioned during First Minister’s questions, I know that opportunities for children and young people have been important to you, and it’s clear that your Government has also made a difference here: targeted support for families who need it most; the most generous childcare offer in the UK; action to support students; retention of the EMA; improvements in examination results. Most visibly, Carwyn, as other speakers have commented, your commitment to the twenty-first century schools programme has ensured our children and young people are educated in modern facilities fit for purpose. Altogether, nearly £4 billion has been earmarked to this, and over 150 schools and colleges will have been built or refurbished by 2019. My constituency of Cynon valley has more than benefited from this. Over £100 million-worth of investment means that pupils of one brand-new secondary and seven brand-new primary schools are now taught in state-of-the-art facilities. And these improvements also extend to the further education sector. Another memory that I will treasure is accompanying you as you cut the sod for the new £22 million Aberdare Coleg y Cymoedd campus in snow and freezing hail. And while many other leaders might have made a very hasty exit in such awful conditions, you decided to climb on board the bus that had been brought in for the workers and deliver an impromptu speech there to them. I think that's a measure of the man.

Carwyn, you also made a difference through your role in helping to deliver a positive result in the 2011 campaign on law-making powers and in the way that your Government has used these powers since. Just as important have been the taxation powers this Assembly has been granted to deliver the first modern, made-in-Wales taxes.

I know your resignation here today will not mark the end of your contribution to public life in Wales. I also know that Lisa, Seren, Ruairi and Caron will cherish being able to spend more time with you.

As someone who has both studied and taught the history of Wales, I’m confident that your place in the history books of Wales will be a prominent one. So, diolch yn fawr, Carwyn, and all the very best for the future. [Applause.]

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

First Minister, it’s a pleasure to say a few words in this statement, as you and I have jostled over this Chamber for nearly seven of the nine years that you’ve served as First Minister. Much of that debate and the elections that I fought you under were a fat lot of good to me—[Laughter.]—because you stayed in that chair and I stayed on this side. But I well remember the first time you and I met, and that was when I was chairman of the National Farmers Union and you came as our guest speaker at the South Wales Police Social Club at Waterton. Some 17-odd years on, here we are, standing in this Chamber in an institution that has transformed itself into a fully fledged Parliament. And you can take much credit for that, both from your time as Minister but also as First Minister. And in your address to us this afternoon, you did give credit to everyone who’s participated in that journey on devolution, whilst quite rightly pointing out the success that you’ve had as First Minister, and your Governments have had. You, again quite rightly, pointed out the people who've supported you in that journey. Because we, as politicians, know that very often it can be a very lonely journey, and some of the calls you have to make, especially from a position of government, are decisions that you as an individual have to take. And so I pay tribute to your time in Government, and your time as a Minister, and your time as an Assembly Member, which, obviously, will continue till 2021.

You have public service running through your veins, without a shadow of a doubt. Someone doesn’t give the time and commitment that you’ve given without having that public service running through your veins, and you can be held in great tribute about the efforts you’ve done to improve the lot of the people of Wales. Politically we are quite different, there's no doubt about that, but that's what politics is about—plurality—and that's something that surely we should be celebrating.

I well remember the time when you announced you were standing down back in April, and you paid tribute to the staff that have supported you. I think we can all pay tribute to the staff who've supported us, because, when you made that announcement, it was on a Saturday, and most people who know me and my farming background know that's the time I spend in the livestock markets down in the west country, and my chief of staff was in Las Vegas on a stag do, and my press officer was at the Tottenham Hotspur football match at Wembley, and between us—my lack of technology is a stumbling block, to say the least—we managed to put a press release together, but you had taken us by surprise at that moment, you had.

But you've never taken us by surprise in your commitment and dedication to Wales. You've highlighted exactly one of the big jobs that you have done, which is to raise the profile of Wales not just here in the United Kingdom, but across the globe, and I pay wholesome tribute to you in doing that. Many years ago, many people from Wales would go abroad and if you were asked in a survey or questionnaire and someone would say, 'Where are you from?' and you might say, 'Cardiff', or you might say, 'Wales'—'Huh? Where's that?' and then you'd just say 'London' or 'England', and 'Oh, I get that'. Well, today people know where Wales is and people know what Wales is about, and a lot of that credit is down to you as First Minister and the efforts of your Government.

I thank you most sincerely as an Assembly Member for the courtesy you've extended to me in the time I've been an Assembly Member, but also the courtesy you've extended to me as leader of the Conservative group here in the Assembly. I wish you and your family all the very best for the future. When we do go home at night and we shut the door, if we've had a particularly brutal day, it is the family that put their arms around us and console us, and I'm sure your family will be a great source of strength to you. I wish you well for the future and, in the remaining two or three years that we have before the next Assembly election, I very much hope we see a very active Carwyn Jones in this Chamber. All the best, First Minister. [Applause.]

Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru, Rhondda)

For the six and a half years that I was the leader of my party, Carwyn Jones was First Minister, and I think it's fair to say that, like many have said already this afternoon, we haven't always seen eye to eye. On occasion there's been fairly robust disagreement between us, as there should be between opposing political parties, but I think it's fair to say that those disagreements have on the whole happened in a respectful way, and they've happened in a way that have enabled both of our parties to work together when the need has arisen, and I value very much the private discussions that we have had.

Carwyn, from my experience of working alongside you, I know you to be genuine about wanting to create a Wales where people do not suffer from discrimination. Whether that be putting the far right in their place on the question of racism and division or whether it be on the question of women's rights, you've taken a principled and ethical approach and I believe that you deserve recognition for that.

You've also been genuine in your desire to see Wales progress, and while I may well have been frustrated about the lack of support for faster progress, particularly on the Welsh constitution, on powers and the lack of support that you've had from your MPs in particular, the fact that you've now started the ball rolling on the devolution of the criminal justice system, as well as having worked with others of us to deliver a successful 'yes' vote back in 2011, shows where you stand politically on these questions. I very much hope that the work that you've started on the criminal justice system will bear fruit and soon.

Now, I know that this last year has been very difficult for you personally, and for others around you, and I know from my own experience how life in the public eye can impact on those closest to us, even when we seek to protect them from that. That aspect of the job is probably the least easy, so I hope that, after today, you will have more time to devote to spending with those people who are close to you and who you love. That, after all, is what is most important.

Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru, Rhondda)

So, good luck to you.

Leanne Wood (Plaid Cymru, Rhondda)

All the very best wishes to you and to your family for the future. [Applause.]

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Llywydd, I think there are nine of us here today, nine Assembly Members—old timers—who've been here since the very beginning, and obviously that includes Carwyn, me and you. [Laughter.]

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Gee, thanks, John. [Laughter.]

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

Much accumulated wisdom and knowledge, Llywydd. [Laughter.]

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Okay, okay.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

I think it's fair to say we've all seen exponential development and growth in devolution and, indeed, in Wales as a country since 1999, and we are now a Parliament in all but name and, hopefully, that name will soon follow. And the depth and breadth of our responsibilities, and the tools that we now have to do a job for the people of Wales, for our communities are much bigger than they were, and I believe they are being used to good effect.

Over that time, Llywydd, we've progressed from the Egyptian potato blight regulations to those arcane creatures, LCOs—legislative consent Orders—and Assembly Measures, and now to Acts. And, do you know, we've seen some really significant, important Acts, I believe, really delivering in terms of the use of those powers for the people of Wales: the well-being of future generations Act, the environment Act, the social services and well-being Act, the organ donation legislation, and, I would say, the active travel Act, which I was privileged to have a part in when I was in Government. So, we have come a long way. For nine years of that time, during that time of development and growth, better and more effective delivery for Wales, Carwyn has led Welsh Government and led our country, and led that building of devolution in Wales, in the referendum as was mentioned earlier and generally, and led on the actual implementation and use of those powers, which, obviously, is absolutely crucial.

It's been a tremendous opportunity for Carwyn, and a tremendous responsibility, privilege and honour, and one that I know he is very conscious and always has been very aware of and all that those responsibilities bring. I believe Carwyn has fulfilled those responsibilities, Llywydd, with commitment, dedication, ability and stature, and that's a fabulous tribute to the man.

At the start of the Assembly, Llywydd, I and Alun Pugh, who represented Clwyd West at the time, quickly became good friends, the three of us, and I think it's fair to say that it was clear to Alun and I that Carwyn had strong leadership qualities. I think, even back then, that was recognised not only by us, but across the parties in the Assembly at the time, across Assembly Members, in the media and more widely. I found out about those leadership qualities to my cost early on when I contested with Carwyn the prestigious position of chair of the South East Wales Regional Committee. [Laughter.] That was an early advancement for Carwyn, but it didn't sully our friendship in any way.

But, outside the Assembly, Llywydd, my efforts to enlist Carwyn in the Assembly football and cricket teams were met with limited enthusiasm, I think it's fair to say, although Carwyn did play and did take part. And whilst sometimes effective—[Laughter.]—

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

You're too generous.

John Griffiths (Labour, Newport East)

—I did find Carwyn keen to demonstrate his knowledge when it came to the opportunity to take part in a quiz. And I think that was partly because Carwyn certainly possesses considerable general knowledge and, in fact, was the star of our quiz team. We tied for first place in the competition, Llywydd, and when it then came to the tie-break, Carwyn was very keen to demonstrate his knowledge further and be the member of our team that went up onto the stage for the tie-breaker. Unfortunately, and unexpectedly, it wasn't a tie-break question, but a dance-off. [Laughter.] Llywydd, I won't go any further than saying I don't think that Carwyn's dancing abilities quite match his general knowledge and his prowess at quizzes.

But, in any event, very early on, Llywydd, Carwyn took a Cabinet post and took Wales through that terrible crisis of foot and mouth, which, again, many of us will remember very well—the searing difficulty that that brought to our rural communities and Wales as a whole, and it was Carwyn's early responsibility, early in his time in the Cabinet, to take Wales through that. That was a major challenge and, again, it's a tribute to the mettle of Carwyn that he was able to meet that challenge and guide Wales through that time of terrible crisis. And when Carwyn became First Minister, it was a great privilege for me to serve in Government with Carwyn and have the opportunity, as I said earlier, to take forward legislation such as the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013.

Llywydd, I think it's fair to say, as others have mentioned, and Carwyn indeed himself mentioned, Carwyn has built on the firm foundations of Rhodri Morgan. And both of them, I believe, are quite similar in many ways in terms of their passion for Wales and devolution, their passion for rugby and sport in general, their commitment to the job of leading Wales and fulfilling the role of First Minister. And I think it's a tribute to both of them that they were both widely respected in Wales and referred to by their first names, their Christian names, which I think speaks volumes in terms of the affection and the respect that they are held in by the people of Wales.

Llywydd, Carwyn's place in the progressive history of Wales and the UK is secure, and I know all of us here today will wish Carwyn the very best for the future and also his wife Lisa, their children and his father Caron. Diolch yn fawr, Carwyn. [Applause.]

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you. And before I call on the First Minister to respond, may I also, as an old-timer—[Laughter.]—thank the First Minister for his service on behalf of all Members of this Senedd? Over the years, it’s been a pleasure and a privilege to work with him. May I disagree with the First Minister on one thing, namely his view on selfies in politics, and to tell the First Minister that the most popular selfie that I’ve ever put on Twitter was a selfie that I took of both him and me in Lille, in the crowd on the night that Wales beat Belgium in the quarter finals of the Euros, with the caption, ‘Please don’t take me home, I just don’t wanna go to work'? That was a very popular selfie and tweet.

So, thank you, Carwyn, for your friendship over the years, also for your service to your Government, to this Senedd, and your nation. And to reply—the final word goes to the First Minister, Carwyn Jones.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Diolch, Llywydd. I won't detain Members for too long, but just to thank everybody for their very, very kind words.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

May I thank Paul for his comments? It is true to say that there are many things that happen in this Chamber that happen at a political level not a personal level.

May I also thank Adam? I was at the millennium centre on Sunday and I saw a book there that had been published by Y Lolfa—they were articles written by Adam between 2001 and now. I now have time to read them, so I might do that. But it was his face that I saw when I entered the centre.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Can I thank Gareth for his comments? And Andrew. Over many years, we jostled—fortunately for me, not physically—[Laughter.]—on the other side of the Chamber. But, certainly, he's absolutely right to say that there were many conversations that took place behind the Speaker's chair, as I think they call it in Westminster, that were needed in order to get business through, and for that I very much thank him.

For Leanne—I know Leanne spent many a week frustrated at the answers that I gave, which I suppose for me should be a source of pride. [Laughter.] But I know from her perspective, as I've said to her before, she has done an immense amount to raise the profile of women in politics in Wales. It was with great envy that I watched her in all those election leaders' broadcasts, when she was on network television and I wasn't—[Laughter.]—and she brought great credit on herself when she was involved in those debates. And certainly, for a long time afterwards, people thought that she was, in fact, the First Minister—and who knows in the future.

And finally, of course—. Oh, Vikki, of course, thank you for the words that you said.

And finally, John. When I heard that John was going to speak, I felt the same feeling I did when I got married and the best man was about to speak—[Laughter.]—because John knows many, many things over the years that we've done. But of all the things I can tell you about John, the one piece of advice I'd give you is never let John book you accommodation. We went to Blackpool some years ago, and John booked the accommodation. It was £10 a night. We shared a room. When we arrived, the hotelier said to us, 'We pride ourselves on the fact that the hotel doesn't have any meters in the room', and that was the selling point, apparently. The hotel had a shower—one shower—that you accessed by walking straight off the corridor into it through a curtain, if I remember rightly. [Laughter.] It was quite an interesting experience. So, John is many things, but a luxury tour operator, I suspect, is not what lies ahead. [Laughter.] John, I've known you for all of those years, and we've had good fun and ups and downs, of course, but, nearly 20 years on, we would've been stunned, wouldn't we, to think that we would sit here in a Parliament with such powers, given where we were back in 1999? It was the potatoes originating in Egypt Order, and we talked about undersized whiting—that's what we were talking about in the Chamber. Who would've thought that the day would come when we would talk about human transplantation and changing the system of consent?

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Thank you all very much, and best of luck to you all.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

Many thanks to you all, and the best of luck to you all in the future.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

It's been an honour and a privilege to serve my country as a proud Welshman.

Carwyn Jones (Labour, Bridgend)

It's been a great honour and privilege for me to serve my country as a proud Welshman. [Applause.]

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Thank you, Carwyn.

3. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Questions now to the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs, and the first question is from Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy (Independent, South Wales Central)

Diolch, Llywydd. I declare an interest in being a Cardiff councillor.

Neil McEvoy (Independent, South Wales Central)

1. How does the Welsh Government use the planning system to address the issue of empty dwellings in Cardiff? OAQ53075

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Local planning authorities need to have a clear understanding of the factors influencing housing requirements in their area, including empty dwellings. Local housing market assessments are a key piece of the evidence base for local development plans, which cover the whole housing market, including dwelling vacancy rates.

Neil McEvoy (Independent, South Wales Central)

Diolch. Today is a historic day, so I'd like to start by honouring Prince Llywelyn, the last native prince of a sovereign Wales, who was killed on this day in 1282 at Cilmeri.

Cabinet Secretary, I recently visited a house in Ely that was starting to look like a jungle. The garden was so overgrown that you could barely see that there was a house there. In the garden, rubbish was being dumped, the windows were smashed in and plants were growing into the house, and it's one of 1,300 empty properties in Cardiff that a family should be living in.

Cardiff has the worst record in Wales in bringing empty houses back into use—less than 1 per cent in 2016-17. You're letting them get away with that, but at the same time letting the Labour council build thousands of new houses on greenfields that local people simply cannot afford. So, why aren't you demanding that Cardiff Council use their powers and get these empty properties back into use, because nothing shows the neglect of our communities more than houses being left to rot for years and years?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I know that Cardiff Council do have an aspiration to reduce the number of vacant dwellings, and that approach was considered as part of the independent local development plan examination. I will say that empty dwellings are, absolutely, a wasted resource. They can often be the target of vandals, which obviously affects the quality of life of neighbours and local communities. As a Government, we've put forward funding—I think it totals now about £40 million—on a continuous recycling period. I think that's over 15 years, and that's been provided to local authorities to operate schemes.

David Melding (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Cabinet Secretary, I do think this is an important area of public policy. Depending on how you count empty homes—whether they're empty after six months or a shorter period—there's somewhere between 23,000 and 43,000 empty properties in Wales. In my area, Rhondda Cynon Taf has nearly 500 properties that have been empty for five years—that's the worst of any authority apart from Swansea. It's quite remarkable that around Wales there are well over 1,100 properties that have been empty for 10 years. So, it is very important, as we need to emphasise the need to build more homes, that we do use the homes that are out there as efficiently as possible.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I can't disagree with anything that David Melding said. I think the level of empty dwellings within a local planning authority area should be a consideration when they are considering the level of homes in a new development. I mentioned in my original answer to Neil McEvoy the funding that Welsh Government has put forward. We've had the Houses into Homes scheme, we've had the home improvement loans scheme, and that does provide local authorities with the flexibility to be able to respond to the demands of their particular area.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Question 2—John Griffiths. John Griffiths isn't here to ask question 2.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

The next questions are from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson—Llyr Gruffydd.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, you told the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee last week that the common agricultural policy and basic payments don't give the outcomes that we need to see. What evidence do you have that what you're proposing in 'Brexit and our land' will?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I have spoken to Llyr in the Chamber about this scheme before. I think one of the main things that we've seen this year is that the basic payment scheme is a blunt tool that doesn't protect farmers in the way that we would want to against volatility—I mentioned the weather when we spoke about this. Last week in front of the committee, I talked about it not rewarding the farmers' performance and about it not assisting with productivity.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

I didn't ask you to deconstruct CAP and the basic payments; I asked you whether what you're proposing will actually deliver the outcomes that you're critical of the current system of not delivering, because, of course you don't know, do you? And that's the reality, because you haven't done the modelling, you haven't done the piloting—there's no evidence that your never-before-tried proposals will actually deliver the outcomes that you want. Indeed, you're setting farms and the whole rural economy off on a journey where we don't really know where we're going, or at least we don't really know how we're going to get there, because you haven't done the homework. Now, don't you accept that the modelling and the piloting all should have happened before you introduced your White Paper, because if the modelling tells you in the spring, or whenever it happens, that it won't deliver the outcomes we want to see, then you'll have wasted a whole year of Brexit preparation, and that will make Welsh Labour's record look just as bad as Theresa May's?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I don't agree with you, because we haven't brought forward the White Paper yet; we'll be doing that in the spring. If I'd have done the modelling and the impact assessment before we went to consultation, we would have been criticised for pre-empting. It's much better to have those 12,000 responses we've had to 'Brexit and our land' on the two schemes that we're bringing forward. So, the economic resilience scheme—that's around food production. It's to make sure we make our farm businesses resilient and sustainable, exactly what they want—they want them to be prosperous. And in relation to the public goods scheme, we want to reward farmers, which is not at the moment being done, around the public goods that they're bringing forward—that wonderful air quality, soil quality, water quality, the flood prevention they're doing. So, when we do bring forward the White Paper in the spring, that modelling and that impact assessment will have been done.

Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru, North Wales)

So, when that modelling, when that impact assessment and when the piloting will have been done, if that eventually shows that retaining a form of basic payment is actually necessary to achieve some of the outcomes that you've listed, or at least to keep farmers on the land in order to achieve the environmental, the economic, the social and the cultural outcomes that you've been at pains to tell us that you want delivered—if all of the evidence, having done that work, tells you that retaining a basic payment is necessary to achieve it, can you confirm to the Assembly today that that is what you'll do?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I will be very interested to see what the modelling and the impact assessment brings forward. Because of the blunt tool that has been the basic payment scheme—and I've had many discussions with farmers over the past few months, many of whom tell me themselves that they don't think the basic payment scheme is enabling them to be resilient and productive in the way that they want to be—I would be very surprised if that were the case. I mentioned last week when I was in front of committee that I will be very flexible. So, let's see what comes out of the consultation, and what goes then forward into the White Paper before we produce the next stage of the policy.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

Conservative spokesperson—Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, back in ministerial questions in February, you indicated that when it came to issuing environmental impact assessments, you were minded to grant such an assessment to be made on the Barry incinerator. That was in ministerial questions. It is important that, when Ministers speak in this Chamber, obviously, people from beyond this Chamber, as well as Members who put those questions, do see action. Can you update us as to what progress you've made, given that, as I said, in February, you were minded as a Minister to undertake this and here we are now in December with no improvement in the situation?

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

I thank the Member for his question. I know that he's been vociferous in taking this forward alongside the constituency Member for the Vale of Glamorgan. Whilst we anticipated a decision by the end of November, further legal clarification of aspects of the case has been necessary. I want to make a decision to issue this as soon as possible, because I'm aware of the ongoing situation and the concern that's been raised, but it's important that, when we do this, we ensure that our actions as a Government uphold our international obligations in respect of an environmental impact assessment. So, officials are currently giving careful consideration to compliance with the EIA directive, taking into account representations from the Member himself and other Members, the developer, and, of course, the Docks Incinerator Action Group.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

I hear, Minister, what your international obligations are, and no-one on this side of the Chamber, or indeed anywhere in this Chamber, I would assume, would be calling on you to break such obligations, but some 300 days have passed since you made that commitment in February. Whether it be Barry or any other part of Wales, when a Minister makes such a pronouncement, it is expedient for that Minister surely to carry out as quickly as possible the due diligence that might need to be taken in that decision and come back with a decision in an appropriate time. Can you please give us a more definitive response as to when we might have the response from you, given, as I highlighted last week in this Chamber, that the First Minister indicated in his letter to me that that decision was going to be taken in November? As I said, it has been nearly 300 days plus since you made that announcement. How much more time do you actually need?

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Like I said, I hope to be able to be in a position to make a decision as soon as possible. I recognise the concerns around this, but, as the Member himself said, due diligence is of the utmost importance when it comes to such a complex case and issue as this. We must make sure that we follow all—take the relevant legal advice and do everything we can possible to make the best decision.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Well, that is a bitterly disappointing answer, given that I could understand that type of answer coming to me maybe a month, two months, perhaps three months after you initially stated your position, but some eight months on you are still trotting out that answer. Now, I did have a written reply from the Minister yesterday indicating that there were legal considerations that the Government are working through at the moment. Can you at least give us an indication—and I'm not looking for the legal advice that you were given, because I appreciate that you can't give us that, but could you at least give us some of the areas that that legal advice is referring to? And is it specific to Natural Resources Wales, who are your advisers on this matter, or is it wider planning issues that that legal advice has been taken on?

I do believe—and I hope you agree with me—that the residents of Barry require some greater clarity than the answers that I've received from you on two occasions now out of three, and I do hope that, as we break for Christmas now in the coming days, you can give me and other Members some confidence that we are within touching distance of a decision.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Like I said, I can't reiterate enough to the Member that I'm fully aware of the concerns of residents on this issue and of the Member himself, but it's very, very important to me and to this Government to make sure that we take all the legal steps necessary and make the right decision, not just legally, but for the residents of Barry as well.

Elin Jones (Plaid Cymru, Ceredigion)

UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton (UKIP, Mid and West Wales)

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, we live in very uncertain political times, and I suppose this may well be the last time in which we shall face each other across the Chamber in the Cabinet Secretary's current capacity, although I should regret it if she is moved on. I've come in the last couple of years to admire and respect the open-minded approach that she has brought to quite a number of issues, listening to stakeholders and local people in particular decisions on nitrates and also on bovine TB, but I have to say that in recent times this reputation that she's built up has been rather dented by several decisions over which she's presided: one, of course, the shooting ban, which Natural Resources Wales has introduced on public land; the draconian fishing laws on salmon and sewin, proposed by NRW again on questionable evidence; and of course what I raised last time, the Hendy windfarm, overruling Powys County Council and her own inspector's report.

Theresa May has been criticised, rightly, I think, for failing to listen and has landed herself in a massive mess, which she'll find it difficult to extricate herself from. Does the Cabinet Secretary herself have any regrets about railroading her policy agenda over the interests of local people and local stakeholders?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, if you're referring to the Hendy windfarm situation, which, as you say, you raised in the Chamber, obviously, I am very aware that there's been a claim submitted to the High Court. So, I can't say anything further on that. I'm very pleased with the renewable energy targets that I've brought through the Chamber. I think it's very important that we have ambitious renewable targets. I'm very aware of my obligations and the Welsh Government's obligations in relation to climate change, and I think the renewable energy targets that we've brought forward—. We had a debate this time last week on carbon regulations; I'm bringing forward the carbon delivery plan in the spring of next year. So, I'm very proud of those.

Neil Hamilton (UKIP, Mid and West Wales)

Well, I accept that the application for a judicial review in the case of Hendy limits significantly what the Cabinet Secretary can say, but I do think that the decision that she took is troubling as a matter of general principle. Localism is an important principle of government, in my opinion, and I'd be surprised if the Cabinet Secretary disagreed with that. Occasionally, national considerations have to take precedence over local interests. Again, I fully accept that. In the case of calling in a planning decision to be made by her rather than by a local authority or, indeed, an inspector's decision, what is the principle upon which she will override the decisions of those who are at a lower position in the pecking order?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I don't think I can give you a general answer to that question. Obviously, it's done on a case-by-case basis. I have two on my desk now that I read for the first time over the weekend, I read again yesterday, and I'll probably read again today. It's something that you obviously have to consider a great deal, but I don't think I can just give you a general answer to that specific question.

Neil Hamilton (UKIP, Mid and West Wales)

Well, I'm sorry that the Cabinet Secretary's unable to answer, because I think there's an important question of transparency involved here, that the decision on Hendy was very different from the decision that she took on Rhoscrowther. She decided there not to intervene, and so we now have a windfarm going up. I visited it myself last week. Scars in the landscape are being made, which will wreck the magnificent views across the hills. At Rhoscrowther, of course, the landscape and seascape was protected. In these circumstances, is it not appropriate for the Government to publish the reasons why it takes a decision in one case but not in another so that the people can understand upon what principle these very important decisions, which affect their daily lives, are based?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, the decision letter is always published and, obviously, that is available to anybody who wants to read it. I think it's really important that we make the planning system as simple and as uncomplex as possible. You'll be aware that last week I launched 'Planning Policy Wales: Edition 10', which is the new edition of 'Planning Policy Wales', and that's really been revised now to take account, in a much more holistic way, I think, of the decision making that's taken in relation to the built environment.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

3. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the role of the Planning Inspectorate in Wales? OAQ53067

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. The Planning Inspectorate is an arm's-length appellate body sponsored jointly with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. The Planning Inspectorate in Wales makes planning and other decisions under allied legislation based on the adopted local development plan and national planning policy on behalf of Welsh Ministers.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. You'll be aware that there's been outrage in Aberconwy regarding the Marl Lane planning application and, indeed, the process so far. This was a decision by planning councillors, members of the planning authority, who refused it, only then for it to be suggested that it goes to public inquiry. This was in March of this year, and then the public inquiry was delayed until September of this year, and it is fair to say it was very, very controversial. In fact, the headlines were, 'Battle of words at Marl Lane planning inquiry'. Because, quite frankly, the site is a constrained site, not in the local development plan, and it was highlighted during the submissions to the consultation, during the meetings, and in correspondence to the inquiry, that it breaches TAN 24, TAN 5, 'Planning Policy Wales' 6.5, cultural heritage CTH/1, development affecting heritage assets, DP/6, compliance with national policy and guidance. Now, there is a feeling in Aberconwy, and the finger-pointing is actually going on, for a change, to here—as opposed to UK Government by this Government—but it is, in fact, the Welsh Government that, in effect, are allowing one individual to actually come in and make decisions above the heads of the locally elected members, myself included, but our locally elected planning authority—thousands of objectors. Now, we are still waiting for a decision on this site, and I would just ask the Cabinet Secretary to have some empathy with those who are very concerned about this site. We don't have the school places, we haven't got the capacity for our health service. There are numerous reasons why this planning application shouldn't go ahead. It should not have been dragged out so long, and I just wonder at what stage will you actually ensure that the planning inspectorate have a little bit more respect for the democratic process within our local authorities, and, indeed, for our own residents.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Deputy Presiding Officer, the Assembly Member will be aware that, in my role as Cabinet Secretary with the responsibility for planning, I'm unable to comment on a specific planning application.

Helen Mary Jones (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

4. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline how local air quality measures, such as clean air zones, will be funded? OAQ53084

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Improvements to local air quality are supported through a number of funding mechanisms, including a dedicated air quality fund, worth over £20 million. This can support the costs of clean air zones where identified by local authorities as the best option to deliver legal compliance with air pollutant limit values.

Helen Mary Jones (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

Thank you. I'm grateful to you, Minister, for your answer. You will be aware that air pollution contributes to about 2,000 deaths per year in Wales and has been described by Public Health Wales as an urgent public health crisis. Is the Welsh Government prepared to act to ensure that councils introduce clean air zones if local action isn't adequate or isn't timely enough in your view? And will the Government reconsider the possibility of the introduction of a clean air Act for Wales if these local clean air zones don't deliver the outcomes that we are hoping for? These are 2,000 deaths that are entirely avoidable, and I strongly support the approach of looking for local action first, but, in the end, there are some things that are so important that it needs national legislation.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Diolch. Can I thank the Member for her question? It's important that—. It's absolutely correct that this isn't just about meeting legal compliance, because it's the right thing to do to tackle poor air quality and the implications it has for people's health and well-being throughout Wales.

In terms of local authorities, I would expect all local authorities to assess the potential for what action is required to achieve reduced pollution levels and improvement in public health, and also, working with schools through the eco-schools project, to develop their own campaigns with the children and to achieve that behaviour change in the local community as well. But, obviously, there's action we're taking at Welsh Government level, which includes our clean air programme, our clean air plan and the establishment of the programme across Government.

I have been clear from the outset that this is a high priority for this Government and that we want to take action now because we know it's an immediate threat, which is why we are taking those actions that we can within the time frame that we have and the pressures on us. But, equally, I've been clear that if we take these—the clean air programme, the clean air plan, supporting local authorities to implement clean air zones and take local action—if we identify that there are gaps and we do need to legislate further, then that's certainly something that can be considered in the future.

Suzy Davies (Conservative, South Wales West)

Minister, I have to say I was a little bit disappointed that the temporary 50 mph speed limit extension to the west of Port Talbot wasn't terminated this summer, as you indicated in a speech earlier this year. Of course, I accept that Welsh Government is in a bit of a bind at the moment regarding this court case around air quality and having to reduce, particularly, traffic congestion emissions, as a result of that court case. Even so, I think we still need to get some sense of perspective here, because, obviously, there's a huge amount of industrial pollution in the Port Talbot area as well. So, I'm wondering if you can tell me how you balance funding between central and local government attempts to tackle both traffic air pollution and industrial air pollution, and, particularly, the money that you give to local authorities—how you ensure that it's actually spent on improving air quality, as the money was intended to do.

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

I thank the Member for her question. I know it's something that you've previously raised in this place, alongside the Member for Aberavon as well. You know there's a particular complex and complicated challenge in relation to air quality around Port Talbot, because of the historic nature of the steelworks, which is such a large employer for the area too, and also the M4. In terms of—. You recognise, in terms of the speed limit, looking at that is what we've identified as being able to meet that legal compliance in the shortest possible time frame going forward. In terms of how we look at—. You're absolutely right that to address the air quality, it's not just looking at nitrogen dioxide emissions alone; it's actually the PM particles, it's the whole suite of air quality issues in the area, which is why our clean air programme, clean air plan, will work with stakeholders and local authorities to look at that in the whole and to address that. And it's something I'm happy to follow up with the Member in more detail, should I be in a position to do so in the future as well.

David Rees (Labour, Aberavon)

Minister, as Suzy Davies pointed out, the issues of air pollution in Port Talbot, in particular, and the hazardouz air management zone, are two-fold. It's the M4 and the traffic emissions and it's also the industrial emissions. And Suzy and I met with Welsh Government officials yesterday to discuss the M4 side. Last time I spoke to you and raised the question, you were indicating that you were going to meet with Tata to discuss the industrial side. Have you met with Tata, and if so, can you give us the details of those discussions and the outcomes?

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

I thank the Member for his ongoing commitment in this area. You're right: myself and the Cabinet Secretary for economy both met, not just with representatives from Tata, but with Neath Port Talbot Council and Natural Resources Wales. Part of this meeting was to look at the issue we found over the summer, in terms of, particularly, the nuisance dust as well, but also, how they might better perhaps work to communicate with local residents and build those relationships, but also, the steps that would be needed to be taken to mitigate the impact of poor air quality generated from industrial emissions in the future. That's work that is obviously ongoing. I want the short-term action plan on Port Talbot to be reviewed and to make sure that it's fit for purpose for the future, and both myself and the Cabinet Secretary for economy are keen to actually visit Tata to see first-hand what could potentially be done, and what are the biggest challenges, so to speak. So, I am happy to keep the Member updated and involved with that as well.

David Rowlands (UKIP, South Wales East)

5. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on action taken to address pollution in Welsh rivers? OAQ53073

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

The river basin management plans, published in 2015, show that water quality across Wales has improved significantly over recent years, with 37 per cent of the water bodies in Wales now meeting good status under the water framework directive. Work is under way to increase this to 42 per cent in the next three years.

David Rowlands (UKIP, South Wales East)

As you will be aware, the fishing association have referred a complaint to the EU Commission that argues that huge quantities of slurry and poultry manure are being spread indiscriminately on large areas of farm land, and that the rules and guidelines governing how this should be done are consistently being broken. This is, of course, having a substantial impact on the ecology of our rivers. Will you give us your assurance that all is being done to monitor this practice, and thus ensure the integrity of our rivers?

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

I thank the Member for his question and his interest in this area. He raises a very important issue. Any incident of pollution in our rivers is one incident too many, for a variety of reasons, which is why this Government has taken action in terms of how we tackle agricultural pollution. We know that the vast majority of people adhere to best practice, and it's the minority that create these incidents that we are taking action to combat. Just this week, my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs—I forgot her title for a moment then—announced further investment for the sustainable production grant, which is to support the delivery of environmental outcomes, including on agricultural pollution, and provide support for farmers facing the considerable challenges of Brexit. So, that's just one step.

We're also working with—. Of course, pollution doesn't just refer to slurry. It could be litter and other contamination in our rivers, and that's why we work with organisations such as Keep Wales Tidy and Groundwork Wales to tackle that as well.

Mark Isherwood (Conservative, North Wales)

In October, we corresponded about a pollution incident in the Afon Clywedog Dee tributary near Wrexham. Of course, specific pollution incidents are a matter for Natural Resources Wales. How do you respond to concern that the self-reporting procedure with water companies, now applied by Natural Resources Wales, takes away the proactive inspections that used to be in place and carried out by Environment Agency Wales staff, and to concern that the current redeployment of skilled fisheries enforcement officers will reduce the effectiveness of fisheries protection across the three regions of south-east, south-west and northern areas, including the upper Severn, and, particularly, on the cross-border working on both sides of the River Severn, and with the Wye and its tributaries, crossing again the England-Wales border?

Hannah Blythyn (Labour, Delyn)

Can I thank the Member for his question and for his earlier correspondence again on this important issue? In terms of tackling this, and making sure we reduce and prevent the impact of any pollution of any kind or any instance within our river basins across Wales, wherever that may be, it's important that we work in partnership with stakeholders, with Welsh Water and Hafren Dyfrdwy and with Natural Resources Wales. And this, of course, is something that I'm happy to monitor very closely, going forward, to ensure that we get the outcomes that we need.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

6. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to reduce the use of antibiotics in agriculture? OAQ53093

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Control of antimicrobial resistance is a priority of the Wales animal health and welfare framework. Across the UK, antibiotic usage in farmed animals has fallen from 62 mg/kg in 2013 to 37 mg/kg in 2017. This has been achieved by adopting preventive medicine and keeping animals in conditions that promote their health.

Lynne Neagle (Labour, Torfaen)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. And, of course, reducing the use of antibiotics for both people and animals is crucial if we are to defend ourselves against the threat of antibiotic resistance. The Responsible Use of Medicines in Agriculture Alliance has recently raised concerns about the sufficiency of the data that's available, particularly for beef, sheep and dairy farmers. Given the very significant threat that antibiotic resistance poses to public health, what more can Welsh Government do to ensure that we have all the data that we need to drive improvements in this area?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you, Lynne Neagle, for that question. In Welsh Government, we do take a one-health approach to address human, animal and environmental aspects of the AMR threat together. We do currently only have high-level UK data on antibiotic sales and developing sector-specific antibiotic usage data for Wales is absolutely a priority for the next AMR five-year plan, and I know we have two veterinary delivery partners working here in Wales with our farms to lead the way in setting up a group to co-ordinate the work that they do on AMR control. I know, for the first time, they've produced information on the prescribing of antibiotics for farm animals in Wales, and they're using that now for benchmarking and sharing of best practice.

Andrew RT Davies (Conservative, South Wales Central)

Cabinet Secretary, as you've just stated, antibiotic use does need to decline, without a shadow of a doubt, but it also has an effective role, obviously, in looking after animal health and well-being. There is a balance to be struck. What exercises have Farming Connect in particular undertaken to promote awareness around antibiotic use in the agricultural community? And if there hasn't been an organised campaign through the Farming Connect network, would you consider instigating such a campaign, because I find very often once people realise the impact and what measures they can take, they are more than willing to engage in that process, because there's a benefit all-round for everyone?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Yes, I absolutely agree with you on that last point, and that's certainly my experience. Farming Connect have been prioritising the responsible use of antibiotics in animals and, crucially, how to avoid the use of them. So, there has been—I'm not sure if it's a specific campaign, I think it's just part of their everyday business. But what they've been doing is working with people so that they can prevent the need for antibiotics further down the line by preventing disease in the first place. I think everybody recognises the impacts of leaving AMR unchecked would be wide-ranging. They'd be extremely costly, not just in financial terms, but also in terms of our global health and environmental well-being, for instance.

Caroline Jones (UKIP, South Wales West)

7. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline how changes to planning regulations can help tackle climate change? OAQ53083

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Last week, I published a new version of 'Planning Policy Wales', which has a clear focus on decarbonisation. PPW establishes hierarchies for energy and transport to promote renewable energy generation over fossil fuel extraction and to encourage walking and cycling over motor vehicle-based transport.

Caroline Jones (UKIP, South Wales West)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Planning and building regulations aimed at improving the energy efficiency of new-build homes require homes to be so well insulated that they require little heating. However, as a result of climate change, the UK is set to experience more frequent heatwaves, summers like this year are thirty times more likely. During the summer, many new-build properties overheated and led to increased demand for air conditioning. Cabinet Secretary, how will your Government ensure that planning and building regulations take account of our changing climate and don't lead to increasing energy demand?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I think it's very important that we do, certainly, address that issue. I think you make a very good point about the issues that we faced during the last summer. And I think it's very important that we don't build houses now that will have to be retrofitted 25 years down the line, even that we're coping with historical housing already. So, I mentioned that I've brought forward a new 'Planning Policy Wales'—PPW10—last week and that does very much have a clear focus on that energy efficiency to which the Member refers.

Angela Burns (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)

I'd be interested to know—. I support the whole issue of being more energy efficient; for a long time, I've been saying we should be following the Merton principles and, with every new property that we build, we should have automatically put into it ground source heating or some other way of being able to offset our carbon emissions. How, though, using these regulations, are you going to be able to square the circle of improving our climate emissions, but, at the same time, ensure that our prices for building houses do not spiral out of control, because we have too many people in Wales who are so desperately in need of appropriate homes?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

I think the Member raises a very important point about balance, and, certainly, in my discussions with my colleague, the Minister for Housing and Regeneration—we meet with the developers, for instance, and obviously, they're very concerned that anything we bring forward will have an impact on cost. But I think it's really important that we look at how we build our new houses; how we take into consideration decarbonisation; how we take into consideration our climate change. You'll be aware we passed new regulations in this Chamber last week, where we set legally binding targets for Wales, and obviously, housing has a big part to play in helping us achieve those targets.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

8. What action is the Welsh Government taking to increase the production of fruit and vegetables in Wales? OAQ53096

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Through Tyfu Cymru and Farming Connect, we are seeking to build the capacity and capability of the Welsh horticultural sector. Working with our supply chain partners, we are preparing growers to adapt to future environmental challenges and position themselves to capitalise on the growth potential of the sector.

Jenny Rathbone (Labour, Cardiff Central)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We currently produce 60 per cent of our own food and a lot fewer fruit and vegetables are produced in this country. Whilst we have absolutely no idea what the outcome of the Brexit negotiations is going to be, it seems to me that we need to prepare for the possibility of the worst-case option of a 'no deal' Brexit, which, of course, would instantly cut us off from our fresh fruit and vegetables. So, in the light of that serious threat to our food security, I wondered what the Government is doing to promote things like the hydroponic system developed by a Cardiff University graduate, Adam Dixon, who has patented something called Phytoponics in Aberystwyth. Using a small greenhouse, they've grown 2 tonnes of tomatoes right up until November, which, to me, is a very important example to farmers who tell me, 'We can't produce vegetables and fruit in this country, because our weather isn't good enough, because our soil isn't appropriate.' It seems to me that that is a demonstrable example of how we can indeed produce our own fresh fruit and vegetables to enable us to service our schools, our hospitals, and, indeed, all our tourist businesses, as well as our local population.

So, I just wondered what the Government is doing to build on the success of Phytoponics. Adam is now going to be representing Europe at the global climate action summit in San Francisco because of the excellence of his work, which, obviously, hopefully, many other countries will build on. But it seems to me that this is something that Wales needs to do as well if we're going to counter the proposals to sell rubbish food from the United States.

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. You referred to the possibility of a 'no deal' Brexit, and, certainly, we are doing a great deal of work around food supplies. The Welsh Government is a member of the food chain emergency liaison group that has been convened by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, because I think we do recognise there may be a more limited choice of fresh fruit and vegetables because of possible disruption to imports from the EU.

I think horticulture is one area where we do have opportunities to make some real progress. It was very interesting to hear about the piece of work you referred to, and Adam—I would be very interested in hearing more about that. What we do within our food and drink action plan, the current one and the one that we're currently bringing forward to support the one that we've had, in ensuring that our food and drink—. I think there are very ambitious targets within that, and as you know, we've already reached the 2020 target. So, what we want to do within that is support horticultural growers to make sure that they can play their part, and one of our priorities is to support that particular industry and increase horticultural crop production by 25 per cent. That would, then, allow much greater self-sufficiency.

Mark Reckless (Conservative, South Wales East)

Does the Cabinet Secretary welcome how much more competitive our fruit and vegetable farmers have become against European producers with the lower exchange rate?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I think that might have lulled them into a bit of a false sense of security, certainly some of the farmers I've spoken to over the past couple of years. I've been to a couple of really good horticultural farms. I was in one in west Wales during the summer, and it was wonderful to see the abundance of fruit and veg that they produce. As I say, it is part of our strategy to support them to increase that product by 25 per cent.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

9. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on Welsh Government efforts to promote marine conservation and biodiversity in Wales? OAQ53085

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. The Welsh Government is promoting marine biodiversity through delivery of its international and national obligations. This includes completing our contribution towards an ecologically coherent and well-managed network of marine protected areas, in line with the UK marine strategy and the Convention for the Protection of the Marine Environment of the North-East Atlantic.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

Thank you. I wanted, really, Cabinet Secretary, to bring your attention to the fact that we could be on the cusp of a new industry for Wales, and the workings of Seaweed Forum Wales, knowing that seaweed aquaculture is good for the economy and, indeed, good for the ocean. The concept: although Wales has a long and proud tradition of harvesting seaweed from the wild and using it primarily as a food and fertiliser, it has never been commercialised as the basis of developing a viable industry across various supply and value chains, and there's a theory that we could be losing out. Some of the benefits of taking this project forward are: climate change targets—seaweed aquaculture has the potential to reduce carbon, reduce agricultural emission, and protect shores from erosion; employment diversification and the opportunity for fishermen to diversify into a growing market; inward investment, promoting, indeed, supply value chain opportunities—it's a game changer for Welsh industry, as supply-side stimulus for a new set of subsectors; competitiveness; Welsh processors of food, drink, pharmaceuticals, nutraceuticals, green proteins; it's got massive potential for export earnings; and partnership—the triple helix of industry, academia and Government. So, what steps will you take forward, as our Cabinet Secretary, to ensure that aquaculture in Wales is looked upon as perhaps a new potential and a growing industry? Will you work with those agencies working in this field?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Well, I think aquaculture already has a very exciting place within our sector, and certainly I'd be very happy—. What you just read out ticks all the boxes, if you like, so I'd be very happy to work with people to take that forward.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

10. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on amending permitted development rights in Wales? OAQ53080

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Thank you. Consultation on the amendment and consolidation of the permitted development Order closed on 28 October. Officials are currently analysing the responses, and we intend to bring forward legislation in 2019, extending permitted development rights to support the roll-out of electric car charging, next generation telecommunications networks, and renewable energy development.

Russell George (Conservative, Montgomeryshire)

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your answer. Do you recognise that the Welsh Government has a role to play in creating the right planning conditions for mobile phone operators to overcome, of course, the challenging business case of rural coverage here in Wales, where the population is sparse in many areas and costs are much higher due to limited availability of power supply and transmission links? Can I ask what considerations you've given to the extension of permitted development rights, as has already occurred in England and Scotland?

Lesley Griffiths (Labour, Wrexham)

Yes. I do think, absolutely we have a role. So, we've had the broad consultation on new permitted development rights, and that included mobile phone infrastructure. As I say, that closed in September. It proposed changes to mast height, mast width, and the emergency use of mobile telecommunications. I’m considering whether to bring forward an amendment Order. That would be made in January and then come into force in the spring.

Ann Jones (Labour, Vale of Clwyd)

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

4. Questions to the Leader of the House and Chief Whip

Ann Jones (Labour, Vale of Clwyd)

Item 4 on the agenda is questions to the Leader of the House and Chief Whip, and question 1 is from Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

1. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure a greater roll-out of superfast broadband in Aberconwy? OAQ53091

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

Yes. In our continued roll-out of fast fibre broadband, we have identified around 3,773 premises across the region that could potentially see connectivity coverage under the new initiative. Assistance with connectivity also continues with our Access Broadband Cymru and ultrafast connectivity voucher schemes.

Janet Finch-Saunders (Conservative, Aberconwy)

[Inaudible.]—concerns to you regarding individual properties and in some instances, you've been able to help me. I know the figure of 96 per cent sounds really good, actually, but if some of the 4 per cent are in your constituency, and they're living next door to people who do have this superfast broadband, it gives them very, very little consolation. You did attend a very packed broadband surgery in my constituency, and you did announce that you were going to be bringing phase 2 forward. We had your recent statement, but I’m being asked all the time, 'Why are you not rolling out the next phase?' It’s a case of, 'Well, the Welsh Government says one thing, but does another.'

I have got schoolchildren who cannot do their homework. I've got farmers who cannot go online. I've got whole communities, actually, in some of my more rural, isolated parts who just believe that it’s a bit of a myth and a dream that they are ever going to get superfast broadband. So, at what stage are you going to show some commitment and make that new announcement going forward? And, you know, if not, communicate far better. We know the first roll-out was a farce in terms of information. We had it coming forward, but people didn't know when or how. And I just feel that you could do more to engage with those in those populations now that do not have it at all, because, right now, they're very, very despondent with your Government over this.

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

Right, well, thank you for that, I think. The meeting was indeed packed. I did explain at great length—as I have at all of the meetings around Wales that I've attended, and I think I've been almost to every constituency now—that the big problem is that this is not regarded as infrastructure; this is still regarded as the procurement of a luxury product. And so, we have to go through a very complex process, including with Broadband Direct UK, to get state aid cover for what we do. And, as I explained in the meeting, would that I could. If I had the power to roll it out as infrastructure, then I would be doing that, but we do not. We have to go through the process of the procurement, we have to do the open market review, we have to find out where the commercial companies are going, and we then have to procure. We have to see what the procurement brings back, and that’s brought back the 3,773 premises. We're in the process right now of identifying exactly which those premises are, and then we'll be trying to fill in the gaps for the rest of it.

Actually, since the last time I spoke about this in the Chamber—I do have a slight groundhog day feeling every time I stand up to do questions—since the last time, the UK Government has actually announced a way forward for its universal service obligation. So, it does look as if we will have some clarity on that in the foreseeable future. There are some issues with that. There is a cost cap on it, and, actually, most of the premises that you're talking about will fall outside the cost cap. So, there’s some work to be done, but I think there will be some movement around the universal service obligation that will put another string to our bow about getting there.

But, if Members do have a whole community, or actually five or six houses together that are isolated, then we'd very much like you to proactively tell us about them, because we're very happy to get our business exploitation teams out to them to see if we can get a community solution out to those communities. And those community solutions have been very effective across Wales; they can be bespoke to the particular community, and there are various arrangements for doing that. So, I encourage the Member to proactively tell us about any clusters of people who we might be able to help.

With the others, we will be able to say very shortly now exactly which premises. That will obviously identify the ones who don't get it as well, and then we'll be able to do some more proactive work with them. But, with the best will in the world, Deputy Presiding Officer, some of the premises are tens of thousands of pounds to get to, and other solutions will have to be found.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

2. Will the Leader of the House provide an update on superfast broadband in Preseli Pembrokeshire? OAQ53065

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

Yes. Although we don't hold information specifically for Preseli, under the Superfast Cymru project we provided access to fast fibre broadband to 54,500 premises across Pembrokeshire, delivering average speeds of 77.6 Mbps and investing over £15.8 million.

Paul Davies (Conservative, Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Leader of the house, as you are fully aware, superfast broadband is critical for many people, particularly people running businesses and people living alone who rely on it as a lifeline. On 23 October you said that you would provide us with details of who would be next able to access superfast broadband. In fact, you said, and I quote,

'I am hoping that, within the next month, we will be able to release those details to Assembly Members so that they can contact people in their constituency and let them know where they are in the programme.'

Given this particular statement, could you now give us an update and tell us when this information will be forthcoming for the benefit of people living in my constituency who want to install superfast broadband as soon as possible?

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

It was a hope. I thought it was a hope that I could be relatively secure about, but actually it's turned out to be way more complex, with the negotiations between ourselves and the various other members of the state aid provision issue. So the procurement has just turned out to be much more complex than we had hoped in the first place. We are hoping, as I just said in response to Janet Finch-Saunders, to be able to have that information very soon now. I know I sound a little bit like groundhog day myself in saying that, but we do very much hope to have that. We want to be really specific about it, so that we don't have the same problems we had before with people falling out of the programme. We do want to be specific, so I do hope we will have that information very shortly.

And I would encourage the Member, because I know you have communities in your area as well who could come together and perhaps get it faster—a faster connection I mean, rather than faster in time—using the voucher schemes. We are just working to see what we can do alongside the UK gigabit voucher scheme as well, so that we enhance the system so that people in Wales have a little bit more access to it. But, I would encourage people to be proactively in touch with us if you do have those communities, or communities of business, so that we can work together to pool the vouchers to see what we can do.

Helen Mary Jones (Plaid Cymru, Mid and West Wales)

Last week I met a group of family farming businesses, about 20 businesses altogether, at Trecelyn Isaf farm in Eglwyswrw. They highlighted to me some of the issues for farming businesses that I actually, to be honest, hadn't thought of, if they can't get access to really high-quality broadband, and that included not being able to use the best technology to regulate their use of inputs—all of those sorts of things.

In the light of what you've said to the Chamber before about being prepared to meet people with specific concerns, I've invited those businesses who've had those issues to write to me. If we find that we've got a geographical cluster, can I invite you to come and meet them and see what innovative solutions we might be able to give? Because I was particularly struck by the potential benefits to the environment. It's obviously good for their businesses if they're restricting their inputs, because it costs them less money, but it also has potential benefits to the environment to make sure that there's less risk of spills and things like that. So I very much hope that, if we do get a sufficient number, you will come to meet them. If it is one business here and one business there, perhaps I'll write to you with the details.

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

It's worth looking at a cluster of people even if they're quite geographically spread. It's surprising what can be done with some of the technologies, and precision agriculture is one of the really big uses of this, so we have a number of examples of communities across Wales where one farmer has been connected and has been able to broadcast the signal, for example, to a number of other farmers. That would allow all kinds of precision agriculture techniques, including smart tractors, precision fertiliser and spraying and all that sort of stuff, which is incredibly interesting when you see it set out. We're very keen on that.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I have no idea whether I will be the Minister in charge of this in the next few weeks, but I will say that, rather than waiting for a Minister, whether it's me or not—and if it is me, I'd be more than happy to come—there is a team of people who are expert in this who can go through the detail. So if you write in to my office, they will make sure that the team itself is in touch, and I think you'll find that you have a very good meeting with that team of people, who are very skilled in getting the group together and explaining what can and can't be done within the project. We've had good success across Wales.

Ann Jones (Labour, Vale of Clwyd)

We now turn to spokespeople's question. The first this afternoon is Mohammad Asghar.

Mohammad Asghar (Conservative, South Wales East)

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Leader of the house, the Equality and Human Rights Commission report 'Is Wales Fairer?' states that domestic abuse continues to be under-reported. It is a sad fact that more domestic violence offences are committed than are reported to and recorded by the police. In view of this, does the leader of the house share my concern that the inspectorate of constabulary has found that two Welsh police forces failed to record 8,400 crimes in the last four years, including 110 domestic abuse cases?

Julie James (Labour, Swansea West)

Yes, we know that a lot of domestic abuse is hidden. We do know that people don't come forward and that there are inconsistencies of evidence across the piece. So, we work very hard with the police and crime commissioners, and actually with the lead police and crime commissioner, who is an ex-colleague that you'll all be familiar with, Jeff Cuthbert, who's taken the lead in this regard for the police forces around the right procedures, identification of and encouragement of people to come forward and then the right processes.

And one of the things that the national advisers have been advising us on in their now first year of office is to make sure that we have consistency across the piece in Wales, because a lot of these services are delivered by third sector organisations. And so, they're looking to see that we have a consistency of service, so that, just to give you an example, if you show up somewhere as a victim of domestic abuse—if you show up on a Wednesday morning in Ceredigion, you would get onto the same pathway as if you show up on a Friday night in the Heath hospital accident and emergency department. And making sure that you have that consistency approach across the piece is very much where we're going, and we have good co-operation with the police forces. But the work is still very much ongoing.

We know that there's under-reporting. We're very pleased that the figures are coming up. Deputy Presiding Officer, it's always difficult to know whether the rise in figures is because there's a rise in incidents or whether it's a rise in people coming forward and being more secure in the system, and I suspect it's a little of both in some areas. We're analysing the figures to make sure that we take the right lesson from the data.